Fake international e-liquid - beware

[Faiyaz Cheulkar]

Not wanting to start an argument but comparing costs of DIY to that of commercially made juice is somewhat unfair. Not saying juice is not expensive but one has to compare facts.

I DIY about 600ml of juice per month. In total i spend about 8 hours per month on mixing DIY ADV's and experimenting with new mixes. I do so at home, after work. Total cost are in the form of base and concentrate liquids only.

Were I to do this for a living say 186 hours per month, I would need to add an income for myself to these costs. Seeing that I would be selling these commercially, I would need a clean room and most probably one much bigger than the space I now use, so add the cost of a lab with adequate controlled climate storage on top of that. Since this is now my only source of income, branding, marketing and distribution either by myself or an employee (or outsourced) becomes very important. Pile on the bills...

Transport and vendor profits.... I can carry on but think the message comes across pretty well already.

So, when a "compeditor" pops up and sells me juice at half the cost of the genuine article, I wonder where did they cut their overheads to do so. No clean room? Child labor? Ingredients stored in a shed? Do they even clean their equipment and bottles? Those savings can not be achieved by stealing branding from an existing product alone.

Cheap juice... Aikona!

Regards

You are right, and that's why mass production is the answer. Once u have invested time to create a mix you put that into mass production, assembly lines, automated mixers which can produce tankers of eliquid with the same quality. Plus when u buy the raw materials in bulk u get it at a lower cost.
But the equipment won't come cheap and some businessman should be ready to make an investment.

An example it takes around 12 to 16 hours to build a Toyota as it's mass produced, but 6 months to build a rolls Royce because it's mostly made by hand.

 

[Raindance]

You are right, and that's why mass production is the answer. Once u have invested time to create a mix you put that into mass production, assembly lines, automated mixers which can produce tankers of eliquid with the same quality. Plus when u buy the raw materials in bulk u get it at a lower cost.
But the equipment won't come cheap and some businessman should be ready to make an investment.

Agreed, but I think the problem with variety comes into play here. Demand for specific liquids is not of sufficient volume to justify the investment required. At low volumes "manual" production is cheaper than mass production as ROT on equipment requires significant volumes and utilizing equipment 24/7.

Regards

 

[Steyn777]

Not wanting to start an argument but comparing costs of DIY to that of commercially made juice is somewhat unfair. Not saying juice is not expensive but one has to compare facts.

I DIY about 600ml of juice per month. In total i spend about 8 hours per month on mixing DIY ADV's and experimenting with new mixes. I do so at home, after work. Total cost are in the form of base and concentrate liquids only.

Were I to do this for a living say 186 hours per month, I would need to add an income for myself to these costs. Seeing that I would be selling these commercially, I would need a clean room and most probably one much bigger than the space I now use, so add the cost of a lab with adequate controlled climate storage on top of that. Since this is now my only source of income, branding, marketing and distribution either by myself or an employee (or outsourced) becomes very important. Pile on the bills...

Transport and vendor profits.... I can carry on but think the message comes across pretty well already.

So, when a "compeditor" pops up and sells me juice at half the cost of the genuine article, I wonder where did they cut their overheads to do so. No clean room? Child labor? Ingredients stored in a shed? Do they even clean their equipment and bottles? Those savings can not be achieved by stealing branding from an existing product alone.

Cheap juice... Aikona!

Regards

If I decide tomorrow that I want to sell knitted sweaters for a living, will it be fair to sell 1 of my sweaters for R3500 a piece? I can only knit 4 to 5 sweaters a month, but I need to make a living out of this...when I do buy juice I don't want to feel like I'm lay buying someones clean room.

 

[Raindance]

If I decide tomorrow that I want to sell knitted sweaters for a living, will it be fair to sell 1 of my sweaters for R3500 a piece? I can only knit 4 to 5 sweaters a month, but I need to make a living out of this...when I do buy juice I don't want to feel like I'm lay buying someones clean room.

@Steyn777, you just explained the HE market. If you have a willing buyer, go for it! LOL.

Value of any service or product is determined by what people are willing to pay for it. Balancing demand with availability by means of pricing is what success is based on. How else do you explain that a mod made from the same material as the box my R500.00 mod came in sells for R3500.00? Consumer perception of value. Manage that and you can sell molten ice to flood victims.

Regards

 

[Faiyaz Cheulkar]

Agreed, but I think the problem with variety comes into play here. Demand for specific liquids is not of sufficient volume to justify the investment required. At low volumes "manual" production is cheaper than mass production as ROT on equipment requires significant volumes and utilizing equipment 24/7.

Regards

Yep that's the sad part. The demand doesn't justify mass production right now, but really hope someone with a huge wallet see's some sort of potential in this business and decides to invest.

 

[Steyn777]

@Steyn777, you just explained the HE market. If you have a willing buyer, go for it! LOL.

Value of any service or product is determined by what people are willing to pay for it. Balancing demand with availability by means of pricing is what success is based on. How else do you explain that a mod made from the same material as the box my R500.00 mod came in sells for R3500.00? Consumer perception of value. Manage that and you can sell molten ice to flood victims.

Regards

The demand is created because of a lack of choice. I hated paying Telkom rates in the days of landlines but I needed a phone. Raymond Ackerman started a business model that gave people a choice in what they actually WANT and it kinda worked for him. My point is our local guys charge what they charge because turnover is not the main focus. In certain industries the entire industry (local) would be accused of price fixing.

 

[yaasir]

What pic are you referring to @yaasir? The one at the beginning of the thread? I don't see any Chinese juices there - all that I see are well-known brands - or fakes of well-known brands.

Its just that I see them all in the China towns. and the Chinese can replicate nearly everything for half the price

 

[Steyn777]

Yep that's the sad part. The demand doesn't justify mass production right now, but really hope someone with a huge wallet see's some sort of potential in this business and decides to invest.

What's your preferred flavour profile? I

Its just that I see them all in the China towns. and the Chinese can replicate nearly everything for half the price

Oh no no no...these are by no means replications.

 

[Humbolt]

Not wanting to start an argument but comparing costs of DIY to that of commercially made juice is somewhat unfair. Not saying juice is not expensive but one has to compare facts.

I DIY about 600ml of juice per month. In total i spend about 8 hours per month on mixing DIY ADV's and experimenting with new mixes. I do so at home, after work. Total cost are in the form of base and concentrate liquids only.

Were I to do this for a living say 186 hours per month, I would need to add an income for myself to these costs. Seeing that I would be selling these commercially, I would need a clean room and most probably one much bigger than the space I now use, so add the cost of a lab with adequate controlled climate storage on top of that. Since this is now my only source of income, branding, marketing and distribution either by myself or an employee (or outsourced) becomes very important. Pile on the bills...

Transport and vendor profits.... I can carry on but think the message comes across pretty well already.

So, when a "compeditor" pops up and sells me juice at half the cost of the genuine article, I wonder where did they cut their overheads to do so. No clean room? Child labor? Ingredients stored in a shed? Do they even clean their equipment and bottles? Those savings can not be achieved by stealing branding from an existing product alone.

Cheap juice... Aikona!

Regards

whilst I do agree that overheads such as clean rooms, lab equipment, etc should be factored into the price of juice, how many of our local juice manufacturers actually blend their juices in these clean rooms or labs? If they do, the price is justified. But I'd hazard a guess that most of them don't, yet their prices are all more or less the same. To me it's as if these relatively newcomers on the ejuice scene are all out to make a quick buck. Whilst I also agree that we should support local, I don't like to spend my hard earned cash when I feel as if I'm being fleeced.

 

[Faiyaz Cheulkar]

What's your preferred flavour profile? I

Oh no no no...these are by no means replications.

Fruity and cheap

 

[Hooked]

@Hooked this must be the weirdest yet so clever thing I've ever heard someone do with a bad tasting juice.

@Steyn777 My bedroom smells heavenly!