I'm not sure Peter Dibi is going to be too happy about this... he is a one man band creating a masterpiece only to be shamelessly copied. Not cool.
Clone Wars
- Thread starter Rob Fisher
- Start date
I'm sure a similar sentiment was expressed when the news of the KUI broke on the forum, but I also feel sorry for Rob at Reosmods. His design for the Reo was also blatantly plagiarized for the V1 non regulated version.
I disagree, did you even follow the development of the Kui? Scans had every opportunity to outright clone the Reo, but with feedback from the forums Scans got the patent and adjusted the Kui so as to not infringe on the the patent. Nothing blatant about it, they created something that is not infringing on the patent. People base mods and atomizers on others all the time, and anybody who actually handled a KUI can confirm it's definitely not a clone.
As for the Nuppin-type atty they're looking at. Agree, they shouldn't have called it a Nuppin, but
1) It's in 22mm, which is/was not available from the original maker
2) It's based on the Nuppin V1, which the original maker discontinued after a very limited run.
The final atty will most probably just be an adaption of the Nuppin-type deck (well being 22mm already puts it in this category), just like the whole bunch of big name atty's using the plumeveil deck or 26650/Copper versions of atties/mods not available in that size/material by the original makers. It doesn't mean they stole it. Funny how nobody here batted an eyelid at the 1:1 Odin clones, which are blatant copies of the original, and not an adaptation.
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Somehow I doubt Rob or Peter will feel the same way. And calling it a Nuppin is horseshit! That's just damn blatant thievery and misleading!
I'm really starting to hate the clone market more and more. I know so many mods that have released, and after an initial run, had to stop because it's been cloned and no one is buying. The problem is, people are then put off trying to be creative, just worrying about what China is doing. I'm glad that I have got rid of all of my clones, and anyway, then end up costing me more money in the long run anyway. @Rob Fisher Good on you mate, it's time that we all start to at least consider the implications of this in the long run.
@Philip Dunkley , please don't hate me for asking. But did you really 'get rid' of your clones? As in bin them? Other wise its not quite the principle you might have aimed or hoped for.
I think your fight is a good fight but if you have ever even bought one clone you owe it to anyone else that hopefully they will also come around and see the light like you did. Without a public calling out like you didn't suffer? Maybe?
What's that story again about letting he who is without sin cast the first stone?
#kermit
Regards,
Rafiq
I think your fight is a good fight but if you have ever even bought one clone you owe it to anyone else that hopefully they will also come around and see the light like you did. Without a public calling out like you didn't suffer? Maybe?
What's that story again about letting he who is without sin cast the first stone?
#kermit
Regards,
Rafiq
Pre order me, atty not required, I'll user my odin and darang clones who's original designers might not be a one man band but hey they ain't Peter Dibi so shame for them.
#kermit again (damn this is good tea)
#kermit again (damn this is good tea)
Meanwhile .. at ecigssa .. the clone wars continue unabated .. 
@Fickie There's a lot more to it than principle. I agree that sometimes clones have their place, purely because we cannot get hold of the originals here, but I do still get a pang of guilt every time I get one. I think it's because I came from the gaming industry, where I saw first hand what Piracy did to some developers. It literally closed the doors of some of the brightest studios our their. And I cast no stone bud, and will never judge anyone for doing it, I just made it a personal principle thing.
It is also a quality thing, some clones are shocking to say the least. But some are better than the original. That's where I have an issue with the original manufacturers, they charge an arm and a leg for a crap authentic. So it does work both ways. I still have 2 clones, although I did buy the originals of one of them. That is the Dimitri box, and the clone is amazing quality and better than the original, And the Cartel 26650 as it was my first Mech. That's it. And sorry, did not mean to offend anyone, and I'm certainly not judging anyone, but I just hope this Chinese market does not kill the guys out there trying to be as creative and innovative as possible. We also don't have much of a choice here, we scarcely get originals in this country.
PS I'd never hate you for asking bud, that's what a forum is about. To discuss.
Healthy debate rocks!!
It is also a quality thing, some clones are shocking to say the least. But some are better than the original. That's where I have an issue with the original manufacturers, they charge an arm and a leg for a crap authentic. So it does work both ways. I still have 2 clones, although I did buy the originals of one of them. That is the Dimitri box, and the clone is amazing quality and better than the original, And the Cartel 26650 as it was my first Mech. That's it. And sorry, did not mean to offend anyone, and I'm certainly not judging anyone, but I just hope this Chinese market does not kill the guys out there trying to be as creative and innovative as possible. We also don't have much of a choice here, we scarcely get originals in this country.
PS I'd never hate you for asking bud, that's what a forum is about. To discuss.
Healthy debate rocks!!
lol am i the only one who feels like Scans are following the trends on our forum and when we all like a product they just going to clone it? hehehe feels that way
I can only buy clones and Chinese originals so lets leave the Americans to look after their own interests. If I was American and had access to the originals then no brainer I would buy original. Same as the paddy vape mech mod I would definitely have an issue with buying a clone of it if it existed. I say we can only buy as the market allows us to.
Thank you Philip, I think the principle and integrity are actually the main thing when it comes to this but clones are a rather complex issue and have become out of necessity a major part of business and the protection of IP for profit (a preferred term here for me would rather be 'making a living'. To this extent many businesses, believe it or not, some that are even hundreds of years old (I reviewed a 300 yo kite maker case study once) have needed to adapt.
The rise of the Chinese production methods and their low costs have (together with poor patent legislation and policing) made competing against them almost obsolete, a pipe dream. But society as a whole feeds it. Anyone have a Samsung Galaxy? Apple clone. It runs deeper than vape related items and most if not ALL of us are using a clone of something or the other, the fact that it might be backed by big brand (or not) shouldn't really make it ok.
A similar irk I just have to opportunistically point out, especially with us holier than thou South Africans, is that we are ALL criminals here! Every single one of us! Yeah! We complain about crime but the reality is in more 'disciplined societies' no one jay walks, or turns right from the straight lane or speeds on public roads at 250km/h and brags about it.
My big gripe about this thread is not about whether clones right or wrong, its that all of you chose to list it here in A (singular) vendor's forum. So what, is he the only vendor selling clones? Or can you also post the link for all the other vendors you 'told off'? And is it because Peter Dibi might be a brit and there is a developing friendship and Philipino's are less important? I don't know but from here with this cup of tea in hand (sorry couldn't resist) this looks more about political affiliations and ulterior motives (maybe unwittingly) than a discussion about the ethics of clones in general.
Lastly there are also the great divides, looks, intelligence and money. Many of us can't afford to get those originals. I can't help but think of a statement made with the current oil price ' efficient producers will do just that, produce efficiently' and the buyer will either vote in favour or against but it is much more complex and widespread than singling out a Vendor, which is what was done intended or not is not the issue here - it's done.
**edited for punctuation and other easy reading matters
The rise of the Chinese production methods and their low costs have (together with poor patent legislation and policing) made competing against them almost obsolete, a pipe dream. But society as a whole feeds it. Anyone have a Samsung Galaxy? Apple clone. It runs deeper than vape related items and most if not ALL of us are using a clone of something or the other, the fact that it might be backed by big brand (or not) shouldn't really make it ok.
A similar irk I just have to opportunistically point out, especially with us holier than thou South Africans, is that we are ALL criminals here! Every single one of us! Yeah! We complain about crime but the reality is in more 'disciplined societies' no one jay walks, or turns right from the straight lane or speeds on public roads at 250km/h and brags about it.
My big gripe about this thread is not about whether clones right or wrong, its that all of you chose to list it here in A (singular) vendor's forum. So what, is he the only vendor selling clones? Or can you also post the link for all the other vendors you 'told off'? And is it because Peter Dibi might be a brit and there is a developing friendship and Philipino's are less important? I don't know but from here with this cup of tea in hand (sorry couldn't resist) this looks more about political affiliations and ulterior motives (maybe unwittingly) than a discussion about the ethics of clones in general.
Lastly there are also the great divides, looks, intelligence and money. Many of us can't afford to get those originals. I can't help but think of a statement made with the current oil price ' efficient producers will do just that, produce efficiently' and the buyer will either vote in favour or against but it is much more complex and widespread than singling out a Vendor, which is what was done intended or not is not the issue here - it's done.
**edited for punctuation and other easy reading matters
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And that's my issue... we can buy Nuppins!
Sorry @Rob Fisher it looks like I am talking around you, please accept my, with respect acknowledgement.
Yip there is no doubt that it's a hot button for me because I am mates with both Rob at Resomods and Peter from Dibi Mods (Peter is American btw).
@Fickie no problem with what you say because it's all true and I don't take umbrage at all... it's a good discussion and often ignored and brushed under the table issue.
I was going to just keep quiet on the issue but the blatant rip off of the Nuppin just caused me to crack.
Just trying to make a point not sure if your lineage is Brit, French or whatever. I also want to make it clear I am not singling you for ulterior motives, some people here may have chosen a side in vendor tiff's that naturally arise between competitors and now jump on a witch hunt band wagon because they like x vendor - whom also is selling clones too - Boo! if that is the case. This vendor forum is grossly inappropriate for this discussion.
I agree though it is a good and even important discussion, one that may affect us as South African's, as I still think of us as industrious can do bunch, so IP is relevant to us. I just felt it important that whomever happens across this thread has a weighted view that the discussion is not really meant to be about Pallas, no?
Yeah, @Fickie , I agree, we are all using a clone of something, you're right, and the necessity of this cannot be argued. And I suppose I generalised more around all the clones than this specific one as well. Just wish there was an easy way to make everyone happy, but then I suppose life would be remarkably boring.
This has got absolutely nothing to do with Pallas, which I think everyone concerned understands. It has all to do with SCANS and their conduct, not the fact that they make clones.
Moving discussion out of Vendor area!
Sorry Andre but I don't completely agree. There are many clone manufacturers not just x clone maker, who is standing up for other OEM's? Why did this topic have to come up here? Only about X clone maker, in a supplier forum? Dang man open a new thread!
Personally with many things I have always tried to get an original, mostly for quality reasons. I must say, I have strangely never given this much thought with vaping. I wonder now why? Maybe its because its a means to an end for me (to not smoke) I have never really taken to from a commercial, hobby perspective.
Clearly with the industry doubling its revenue size in the last year it will be a big thing.
If an original was to expensive for me I wouldn't buy it, does that mean the producer loses me as a customer or was I never going to be their customer? I certainly don't buy $100 clones either.
Clearly with the industry doubling its revenue size in the last year it will be a big thing.
If an original was to expensive for me I wouldn't buy it, does that mean the producer loses me as a customer or was I never going to be their customer? I certainly don't buy $100 clones either.
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