Court case against govt. re tobacco ban

[Hooked]

From FB https://www.facebook.com/Fita-1512331899070066
and http://fita.co.za/fita-statement-27-may-2020/

"We can confirm that this morning we received the record of decision and reasons for the banning of the sale of cigarettes from the Respondents. We are now finalising our supplementary papers which will be served on the Respondents by no later than 29 May 2020 as per the court order of 12 May 2020 which states inter alia the following:

2.1.the Applicant may amend its notice of motion and supplement its founding affidavit by no later than 29 May 2020;

2.2.the Respondents will file their answering affidavit by no later than 3 June 2020;

2.3.the Applicant will file any replying affidavit by 6 June 2020;

2.4.the parties will exchange and file heads of argument by no later than 8 June 2020; and

2.5.the parties will approach the Deputy Judge President for a special allocation of the matter for hearing during the week of 9 June 2020 and failing which the matter will be set down for hearing in the urgent court on 9 June 2020."

 

[takatatak]

From FB https://www.facebook.com/Fita-1512331899070066
and http://fita.co.za/fita-statement-27-may-2020/

"We can confirm that this morning we received the record of decision and reasons for the banning of the sale of cigarettes from the Respondents. We are now finalising our supplementary papers which will be served on the Respondents by no later than 29 May 2020 as per the court order of 12 May 2020 which states inter alia the following:

2.1.the Applicant may amend its notice of motion and supplement its founding affidavit by no later than 29 May 2020;

2.2.the Respondents will file their answering affidavit by no later than 3 June 2020;

2.3.the Applicant will file any replying affidavit by 6 June 2020;

2.4.the parties will exchange and file heads of argument by no later than 8 June 2020; and

2.5.the parties will approach the Deputy Judge President for a special allocation of the matter for hearing during the week of 9 June 2020 and failing which the matter will be set down for hearing in the urgent court on 9 June 2020."

I really hope that this whole debacle doesn't get tied up in legal wranglings for weeks or months on end. We all know how the courts love postponing things...

 

[Balsak]

I really hope that this whole debacle doesn't get tied up in legal wranglings for weeks or months on end. We all know how the courts love postponing things...

From what i have seen it seems like they are going to court on the 8th, cant remember where i saw it so dont quote me on the exact date but i know its soon

 

[takatatak]

2.5.the parties will approach the Deputy Judge President for a special allocation of the matter for hearing during the week of 9 June 2020 and failing which the matter will be set down for hearing in the urgent court on 9 June 2020.

From what i have seen it seems like they are going to court on the 8th, cant remember where i saw it so dont quote me on the exact date but i know its soon

Yeah, I just hope the ruling judge doesn't say "we will review this matter in 28 days" or something painful like that...

Let's hope for the best!!

 

[Adephi]

Our schools and hospitals are unprepared, understaffed, extremely short on PPE's and yet so much time, energy and money is spent on this subject because the NCCC is playing hardegat. It's a disgrace really.

 

[DavyH]

Fita confirmed it will be heard before the full bench of the High Court on 9 and 10 June.

The 'evidence' produced by the state appears to be unfounded. If it were clear,we wouldn't be the only country in the world adopting these measures, would we?

 

[DavyH]

This just in: BATSA have reinstituted their case against government as well.

After their previous spineless performance I'm not sure I trust them to go through with it, and there's no way they would have pulled out in the first place if it wasn't to their advantage. Maybe i'm overly suspicious of them, but driving independent vape stores out of business could only benefit Twisp sales and move them closer to a monopoly over a growth industry. A two or three week delay in the lifting of the ban could only help them with this.

 

[DavyH]

And more breaking news:

Head over to the DA's Facebook page for this one (not endorsing them as a party, just as a source).

It appears that the Minister of COGTA was less than truthful when she cited 2,000 objections to the lifting of the ban on tobacco sales when moving to level 4.

The gift that keeps on taking

 

[Balsak]

And more breaking news:

Head over to the DA's Facebook page for this one (not endorsing them as a party, just as a source).

It appears that the Minister of COGTA was less than truthful when she cited 2,000 objections to the lifting of the ban on tobacco sales when moving to level 4.

The gift that keeps on taking

Yeah they posted the number on mybb yesterday iirc

 

[Amy]

Hopefully these guy's get somewhere and the government don't do their usual tricks of stretching court cases out....

 

[Hooked]

Cigarette sale ban: BATSA launches another attack
https://www.iol.co.za/news/politics/cigarette-sale-ban-batsa-launches-another-attack-48964359
4 June 2020

"British American Tobacco SA (BATSA) has launched another attack on the constitutionality of the ban on cigarettes by Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs Minister Dr Nkosazana Dlamini Zuma.

The company described the regulations as an unconstitutional infringement to a number of rights enshrined in the Constitution. Dlamini Zuma, President Cyril Ramaphosa and the National Coronavirus Command Council are listed as respondents.

In papers filed at the Western Cape High Court on Wednesday, BATSA and nine other applicants state the ban on “tobacco, tobacco products, e-cigarettes and related products” infringes on the right of tobacco farmers, processors and tobacconists (tobacco shops) to freedom of trade and occupation or profession.

In terms of Section 22 of the Constitution, every citizen has the right to choose their trade, occupation or profession freely and that this may be regulated by law.

“In this application, the court is asked to decide whether regulation 45 is an unconstitutional infringement of the following rights in the Constitution – the rights of consumers of tobacco and vaping products to dignity, privacy and bodily and psychological integrity under sections 10 (human dignity), 12 (freedom and security of the person) and 14 (privacy) of the Constitution,” read BATSA’s application.

The company and other applicants said the regulations also amount to an arbitrary deprivation of the right to property of participants in the supply chain for tobacco and vaping products under Section 25 of the Constitution, which states that no one may be deprived of property except in terms of law of general application and no law may permit arbitrary deprivation of property. BATSA and other applicants want the regulation declared unconstitutional and invalid.

Joining BATSA in the application are JT International SA, writer Melinda Ferguson, Keoagile Molobi, Limpopo Tobacco Processors, SA Tobacco Transformation Alliance, Black Tobacco Farmers Association, Suider Afrika Agri Inisiatief, SA Informal Traders Alliance and JJ Cale Tobacconists.

The matter has been set down for June 22." [my highlights]

 

[takatatak]

Tobacco ban: Cigarettes ‘may be off-limits until August’, amid legal hurdles

 

[DavyH]

Tobacco ban: Cigarettes ‘may be off-limits until August’, amid legal hurdles

 

[takatatak]

SA’s biggest cigarette maker is now accepting orders – and some stores hope for 1 July delivery

 

[takatatak]

Good news, smokers: BAT cigarette ban court case ‘to be heard urgently’

 

[takatatak]

Legal battle over tobacco ban delayed until August
Their coffers evidently aren't full enough yet
"... this delay will cost South Africa more than R1.4-billion and thousands of jobs."

 

[DavyH]

Judgment just out, Fita lost.

I’m appalled.

 

[vicTor]

fcuk this shit

 

[M.Adhir]

Judgment just out, Fita lost.

I’m appalled.

I was wondering if they would appeal.
But is there even really any point in doing that anymore.

 

[THE REAPER]

Lets make it a smoke free South Africa take all the cars off the road and all the boilers down and no more fire to braai cause it smokes its all bad. Some worse than others. But if it smokes kill it. Cause this is shti anyway its all about getting us as children in line and bending us like they want to.

 

[mrh]

Judgment just out, Fita lost.

I’m appalled.

Unbelievable

 

[DavyH]

Lets make it a smoke free South Africa take all the cars off the road and all the boilers down and no more fire to braai cause it smokes its all bad. Some worse than others. But if it smokes kill it. Cause this is shti anyway its all about getting us as children in line and bending us like they want to.

I can picture that witch’s hideous grinning face and it’s making my skin crawl. I truly feel ill.

 

[Quintusson]

Okay, so let's start off by saying I am just as upset about it as everyone else, but now let's look at what they argued. They did not argue that it is our constitutional right to smoke (in our case, vape). They did not argue that scientists have proven that smokers are equally likely to get COVID versus non-smokers and not more likely so, which is the main argument of the government, disproven by a top SA scientist recently (https://www.news24.com/news24/south...ive-in-banning-smoking-top-scientist-20200625).

FITA argued that nicotine is a addictive substance and hence the ban needs to be lifted. From the judgment: "FITA’s argument that cigarettes ought to have been considered 'essential' because they are additive has no merit. The fact that a substance is addictive does not render it essential. We therefore find no basis on which to interpret the level five regulations as permitting the sale of tobacco products,".

In the same breath one can say that heroin is addictive, okay it's illegal as well so not really the same thing, but nonetheless. FITA should have argued less from a 'let's make money' attitude to more of a 'let's help our consumers' attitude.

Alas, now to wait until August. Let's hope BAT has better facts to present and goes about it slightly differently.

 

[mrh]

Okay, so let's start off by saying I am just as upset about it as everyone else, but now let's look at what they argued. They did not argue that it is our constitutional right to smoke (in our case, vape). They did not argue that scientists have proven that smokers are equally likely to get COVID versus non-smokers and not more likely so, which is the main argument of the government, disproven by a top SA scientist recently (https://www.news24.com/news24/south...ive-in-banning-smoking-top-scientist-20200625).

FITA argued that nicotine is a addictive substance and hence the ban needs to be lifted. From the judgment: "FITA’s argument that cigarettes ought to have been considered 'essential' because they are additive has no merit. The fact that a substance is addictive does not render it essential. We therefore find no basis on which to interpret the level five regulations as permitting the sale of tobacco products,".

In the same breath one can say that heroin is addictive, okay it's illegal as well so not really the same thing, but nonetheless. FITA should have argued less from a 'let's make money' attitude to more of a 'let's help our consumers' attitude.

Alas, now to wait until August. Let's hope BAT has better facts to present and goes about it slightly differently.

I thought the essence of their argument was the unreasonableness of the regulation and I think they argued that quite clearly.

 

[mrh]

Okay, so let's start off by saying I am just as upset about it as everyone else, but now let's look at what they argued. They did not argue that it is our constitutional right to smoke (in our case, vape). They did not argue that scientists have proven that smokers are equally likely to get COVID versus non-smokers and not more likely so, which is the main argument of the government, disproven by a top SA scientist recently (https://www.news24.com/news24/south...ive-in-banning-smoking-top-scientist-20200625).

FITA argued that nicotine is a addictive substance and hence the ban needs to be lifted. From the judgment: "FITA’s argument that cigarettes ought to have been considered 'essential' because they are additive has no merit. The fact that a substance is addictive does not render it essential. We therefore find no basis on which to interpret the level five regulations as permitting the sale of tobacco products,".

In the same breath one can say that heroin is addictive, okay it's illegal as well so not really the same thing, but nonetheless. FITA should have argued less from a 'let's make money' attitude to more of a 'let's help our consumers' attitude.

Alas, now to wait until August. Let's hope BAT has better facts to present and goes about it slightly differently.

https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/opi...-addict/?utm_campaign=snd-autopilot#gsc.tab=0 SO on this topic a more thorough discussion of the weaknesses in Fita's argument. Also written by a vaper.