Horizontal vs Vertical placed coils ?

[KZOR]

Since i started playing around with various atties i have always had my suspicion that, in theory, vertical coils should have less spit-back while horizontal should have better flavour.

Last night i viewed a live youtube chat hosted by Jai Haze where some mainstream reviewers were involved as well as Ravensmoon which manufactured his new 502 RDA.

I watched all reviews available for the 502 because atties where reviewers are involved intrigues me. Todd however was the first one that thought the flavour was not the best and this was my initial prediction when i saw the design of the atty. When i brought up my thought as to why Todd might have not experienced the best flavour some of them got real excited and started ripping me apart.

I am no expert and was hoping someone could explain to me where i am going wrong in my thought process.

Here goes :
I always thought that when you heat up a saturated coil then liquid is converted to flavour vapour particles which, on intake, reacts with both receptors on your taste buds as well as the olfactory cells in your epithelial lining of your nose.
The more particles the better the flavour experience.
When a horizontal coil is heated then most of the particles are directed upwards as in the photo below.

When building vertically most of the vapour will be created towards the sides (see pic below) and you have cotton above the coils, where the particles are released, and this, i felt, could trap a lot of the particles that do move upwards. This in turn helps prevent the spit-back.

I managed to get an old photo posted by @rogue zombie which confirms my suspicion as you can see particles caught in the cotton above the coil.

Also after placing the top-cap back on the 502 you have very little space for the particles to pass through to the drip-tip.


I would really appreciate if someone could assist me by explaining why, according to those reviewers, i got it wrong.
I earnestly want to understand this as it would help me be a better reviewer.
Thanks

 

[Spyro]

I don't know hey. What you say makes a lot of sense. Jai has a cult following of like minded chronies who won't dare to criticise him.

Anything questioning his actions in severely frowned upon by his group.

So my personal opinion is that you are correct. You've even posted evidence. Why not post in wicks and coils and see what they say? But to be fair a lot of guys on there still ask if so-and-so a coil is safe on such-and-such a device. So you're dealing with people who aren't going to help. I suggest you post your findings to geekay or some other reviewers who have the 502 and see what they think.

Ps you've just put me off vertical coil atties

 

[KZOR]

@Spyro
Yea .... realise they are a very tight knit community but i still need my question answered by the experienced vapours on the forum.
Where are the guys who vaped since 2014/15 because vertical coils were more abundant then?

 

[Rob Fisher]

@Spyro
Yea .... realise they are a very tight knit community but i still need my question answered by the experienced vapours on the forum.
Where are the guys who vaped since 2014/15 because vertical coils were more abundant then?

I wouldn't say I'm an experienced coil builder by any means... but having vaped for over 4 years now and tried more than one or two setups I have never found satisfaction with vertical coils... my latest vertical coil test was with the Bastard Bridge for the Billet box... for me it was an epic fail!

 

[Raindance]

Hi @KZOR you raise a difficult question to which I'm sure not going to claim having an answer to. The "science" of airflow and flavor generation and transfer within atomizers seems very conflicted with multiple opposing views being backed from various camps.

Vertical coils also come in two formats. As pictured in your above post you have the wick thru coil horizontal setup turned thru 90 degrees and also the wick around coil with airflow through the center as used in most commercial BVC type coils.

I think the best approach would be to list and then identify the impact of all the variables that change between these different setups.
The above may seem simple on first thought but may be a lot more complex if one really wants to make proper work of it. I would not mind collaborating on doing some research though.

Regards

 

[Puff the Magic Dragon]

My 10c worth @KZOR . For me, this has little to do with vertical vs horizontal coils. It is, in my opinion, more to do with the introduction of the name "Todd" into the discussion. There is a cavernous divide between Todd and the Vaping Biker on the one side, and Vaping with Vic and The Vaping Postman on the other (plus one or two others). Jai Haze is a good friend of the latter group. During the holiday period, there were a couple of no holds barred youtube videos (Vic and TVP) which explained the feud. TVP called Todd ****** ?????? Sorry, I cant use those words on this forum.
When I watched Todd's review of Jai Haze's new RDA I had this in the back of my mind. I think that it is hard to be even handed with your enemy's good friend (even if you want to remain neutral).
Why don't you ask Morten Oen for his opinion. He has a refreshing "scientific" approach to coils, and in particular airflow around the coils.

 

[Clouds4Days]

@KZOR all i can say is look who you dealing with.
I have only ever watched one of Jai Haze reviews and it put me off completely.
The guys straight up ruthless and rude.

I like watching honest reviews but one has to draw a line between honesty and being rude and distasteful.

Sad thing is this is why he has a following because in todays world respect is cheap and its cool if you hang around/follow bad a$$es.

I understand why you want to look into it but dont give them the light of day and rather speak to real down to earth people that actually have manners like Todd, Daniel and Geekay etc.

 

[Neal]

Since i started playing around with various atties i have always had my suspicion that, in theory, vertical coils should have less spit-back while horizontal should have better flavour.

Last night i viewed a live youtube chat hosted by Jai Haze where some mainstream reviewers were involved as well as Ravensmoon which manufactured his new 502 RDA.

I watched all reviews available for the 502 because atties where reviewers are involved intrigues me. Todd however was the first one that thought the flavour was not the best and this was my initial prediction when i saw the design of the atty. When i brought up my thought as to why Todd might have not experienced the best flavour some of them got real excited and started ripping me apart.

I am no expert and was hoping someone could explain to me where i am going wrong in my thought process.

Here goes :
I always thought that when you heat up a saturated coil then liquid is converted to flavour vapour particles which, on intake, reacts with both receptors on your taste buds as well as the olfactory cells in your epithelial lining of your nose.
The more particles the better the flavour experience.
When a horizontal coil is heated then most of the particles are directed upwards as in the photo below.
View attachment 119029
When building vertically most of the vapour will be created towards the sides (see pic below) and you have cotton above the coils, where the particles are released, and this, i felt, could trap a lot of the particles that do move upwards. This in turn helps prevent the spit-back.
View attachment 119031
I managed to get an old photo posted by @rogue zombie which confirms my suspicion as you can see particles caught in the cotton above the coil.
View attachment 119032
Also after placing the top-cap back on the 502 you have very little space for the particles to pass through to the drip-tip.
View attachment 119033

I would really appreciate if someone could assist me by explaining why, according to those reviewers, i got it wrong.
I earnestly want to understand this as it would help me be a better reviewer.
Thanks

Mate, your reviews are excellent. Sounds like another case of Vapers Elitism Syndrome to me. You raise some very good questions, which should surely deserve some very good answers.

 

[Silver]

Hi @KZOR, intesting thread

I dont know those reviewers , have maybe watched one or two videos from them. I have watched Todd a bit more and like his style.

But that aside, on the issue of horizontal versus vertical coils. I have only tried a vertical coil once I think, cant remember in which atty even, but it didnt feel right, so i havent tried it again.

I would say the atty needs to be designed in such a way that the vertical coil would shine. Dont know which attied they are but in general i would say most atties ive seen seem to be better for horizontal coils. Otherwise we would see so many folk rather using vertical coils.

Maybe check with @Andre , if i recall correctly, he has had a few experiences with vertical coils.

 

[Puff the Magic Dragon]

@KZOR the latest Oumier (Wasp) RDA has the first vertical coil/transverse coil, single coil/dual coil suitable RDA. Not directly related to your thread but it looks like a crazy new design. Its called the Oumier VLS.

 

[KZOR]

So i mailed Todd the link and asked him to comment when he had time.
This was his response.


So ....... whenever you get the opportunity and decide to buy the 502, because i will definitely not, please let us know what your thoughts are regarding flavour. I think this atty is way overhyped.

 

[SmokeyJoe]

Vertical Coils??

 

[Spyro]

Good ol' Todd.

I dismissed his opinion and bought a mod that he said was "Sh*t". Let's just say I trust him now.

 

[SmokeyJoe]

Ive tried numerous vertical coils and i can confirm @KZOR that you are on the money. Vertical have almost to none spit back. However is does suffer in flavour compared to horizontal, unless u use those fancy tri/quad vertical coils. For me ill rather have spit back with loads of flavour than wasting money on liquid with vertical where u dont taste the juice as its meant to be

 

[SmokeyJoe]

And besides loving his accent, Todd is one of the few international reviewers that say as it is. I trust him most of the international reviewers out there