Nicotine Salts vs Freebase

[craigb]

Seeing at least 2 vendors offering some variety in the type of Nicotine is awesome...

Having done a bit of research (minimal amount of research) it seems there is a difference in how we absorb the nic in it's various forms.

Freebase seems to be slower to absorb, but longer lasting, with a definite throat hit, while the salt seems to hit faster, but to be less long lasting and much smoother.

Would there be any point to experimenting with using both in a single juice. The quicker intake of the salts matched with the longer lasting of the freebase? Using both to balance higher nic ratio with a lesser but still noticeable throat hit?

[USERGROUP=3]@Admins[/USERGROUP] , would another area of the forum be more appropriate for the vendors in question to provide their opinion and/or knowledge (please feel free to move if appropriate)

 

[Stosta]

Seeing at least 2 vendors offering some variety in the type of Nicotine is awesome...

Having done a bit of research (minimal amount of research) it seems there is a difference in how we absorb the nic in it's various forms.

Freebase seems to be slower to absorb, but longer lasting, with a definite throat hit, while the salt seems to hit faster, but to be less long lasting and much smoother.

Would there be any point to experimenting with using both in a single juice. The quicker intake of the salts matched with the longer lasting of the freebase? Using both to balance higher nic ratio with a lesser but still noticeable throat hit?

[USERGROUP=3]@Admins[/USERGROUP] , would another area of the forum be more appropriate for the vendors in question to provide their opinion and/or knowledge (please feel free to move if appropriate)

I was thinking it would be nice to have a single thread discussing this seeing as we do have two separate ones at the moment!

Lets leave this one in here, and guys just remember that if you're needing a response from the vendors, to ask them in their own sub-forums as they won't be able to respond here (heads up to @Richio and @DizZa ).

 

[craigb]

I was thinking it would be nice to have a single thread discussing this seeing as we do have two separate ones at the moment!

Lets leave this one in here, and guys just remember that if you're needing a response from the vendors, to ask them in their own sub-forums as they won't be able to respond here (heads up to @Richio and @DizZa ).

@Eisenhorn wants to know the best way to store Nic salts too.

Is my understanding correct that the vendors can comment, but just not push their own product and services?

 

[craigb]

and to answer @Eisenhorn , from what I've read, salts (whether in PG or VG) are more stable than freebase and degrade slower. So in theory, you could keep them in the back of the cupboard, but if you already store in the fridge/freezer, may as well carry on as you were.

 

[Rude Rudi]

Would there be any point to experimenting with using both in a single juice. The quicker intake of the salts matched with the longer lasting of the freebase? Using both to balance higher nic ratio with a lesser but still noticeable throat hit?

[USERGROUP=3]@Admins[/USERGROUP] , would another area of the forum be more appropriate for the vendors in question to provide their opinion and/or knowledge (please feel free to move if appropriate)

As far as I understand, NO. Quoting form this source: " In short, adding free base nicotine to its salt form isn't going to give a revelatory "best of both worlds" situation."

He goes on to explain the science in the thread - far too complicated to explain here...

Would have been nice though...

 

[craigb]

As far as I understand, NO. Quoting form this source: " In short, adding free base nicotine to its salt form isn't going to give a revelatory "best of both worlds" situation."

He goes on to explain the science in the thread - far too complicated to explain here...

Would have been nice though...

Conjugate acid <nods head>
equilibrium dynamics <uhuh>

So, that's a no then? <chemical engineer checks himself into rehab>

The short answer that I think I understood is that mixing the 2 causes a change in the chemical equilibrium that makes it effectively a different strength of one or the other (which one, I couldn't quite understand)

Thanks @Rude Rudi , asked and answered.

Good thing @Stosta already appropriated the thread for broader discussion.

 

[Eisenhorn]

Conjugate acid <nods head>
equilibrium dynamics <uhuh>

So, that's a no then? <chemical engineer checks himself into rehab>

The short answer that I think I understood is that mixing the 2 causes a change in the chemical equilibrium that makes it effectively a different strength of one or the other (which one, I couldn't quite understand)

Thanks @Rude Rudi , asked and answered.

Good thing @Stosta already appropriated the thread for broader discussion.

Thanks @craigb for the info...
The tearm "Salt" irrationally conjured images of the Nic crystallising like menthol in the fridge.
Shudder

"Dats would be'z Dildos"

Sent from my F3111 using Tapatalk

 

[Silver]

@Eisenhorn wants to know the best way to store Nic salts too.

Is my understanding correct that the vendors can comment, but just not push their own product and services?

Hi @craigb
Vendors can't discuss their products in the general threads of the forum.
So if you want vendors to participate, let us know and we can move this to the "Who has stock" subforum.

Great questions you are asking here by the way!

 

[kimbo]

Hi @craigb
Vendors can't discuss their products in the general threads of the forum.
So if you want vendors to participate, let us know and we can move this to the "Who has stock" subforum.

Great questions you are asking here by the way!

@Silver if i may answer

I read that you also just keep it in the fridge as your normal nic, the good thing is it does not oxidate as easy

 

[Eisenhorn]

First impressions of Nic Salts:
Winner Winner chicken dinner!!!

Finally got around to some mixing tonight and to play around with Nic Salts (the 60mg variety)
First thing I did was make a 4mg 70/30 plain base to get a unbiased real taste. Painted some on my RDA and took a toot... Man oh man!
To quote a controversial youtube reviewer "SMOOTH as an adult entertainers posterior!!!"
Zero taste, zero harshness, no discernable throat hit and an immediate nicotine rush. That good old instant gratifying tingly hit like you got from lighting up a stinky in a quiet moment after some mad rush...
I am sold on this stuff

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[Silver]

I havent tried nic salts properly

I had a few toots on the Gusto Mini when I visited Vapers Corner a few weeks back.
I did notice the throat hit was very light

So, for those that have tried it - is the attraction that you get the nic loading without throat hit/harshness while you vape?

I realise I am in the minority but what if I actually like throat hit?

So this isnt for me really? Am I right?

I still want to try it properly though

 

[bjorncoetsee]

I havent tried nic salts properly

I had a few toots on the Gusto Mini when I visited Vapers Corner a few weeks back.
I did notice the throat hit was very light

So, for those that have tried it - is the attraction that you get the nic loading without throat hit/harshness while you vape?

I realise I am in the minority but what if I actually like throat hit?

So this isnt for me really? Am I right?

I still want to try it properly though

I also tried the nic salts. Absolutely no throat hit. I also dont get a buzz. I usually vape 4.5mg in a dripper. And 12mg in mtl tanks. I mixed at 6mg nic salts, tried in on the dripper. Got no throat hit which im after. And also no buzz, just felt nauseous on my stomach for a minute or 2.
I mixed at 13mg for my mtl tank, also no throat hit or a buzz.
I think i crave the throat hit more than the nicotine. Will keep on testing it, but so far im choosing freebase nic, just for the throat hit

 

[zandernwn]

Seeing at least 2 vendors offering some variety in the type of Nicotine is awesome...

Having done a bit of research (minimal amount of research) it seems there is a difference in how we absorb the nic in it's various forms.

Freebase seems to be slower to absorb, but longer lasting, with a definite throat hit, while the salt seems to hit faster, but to be less long lasting and much smoother.

Would there be any point to experimenting with using both in a single juice. The quicker intake of the salts matched with the longer lasting of the freebase? Using both to balance higher nic ratio with a lesser but still noticeable throat hit?

[USERGROUP=3]@Admins[/USERGROUP] , would another area of the forum be more appropriate for the vendors in question to provide their opinion and/or knowledge (please feel free to move if appropriate)

Please dont. nic salts are not suited for sub ohm.

One of the compounds used to create salt nics are benzoate acid.. Uses at low tempratures this is fine but at sub ohm levels can release benzine and that would not be good for you. Other acids used may also break down into harmfull side effects at heats exceeding 200c.

Also salt nics absorb beter under low tempratures.... You will almost be defeating the purpose of salt nic at high temps.. Then free base remains more effective

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[zandernwn]

@Eisenhorn wants to know the best way to store Nic salts too.

Is my understanding correct that the vendors can comment, but just not push their own product and services?

Storing is the same as freebase, but nic salts preserve much better than free base

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[zandernwn]

I trust its ok for me to give this info.. We dont sell or produce nic salts.. Just wanted to answer the questions with regards to using combinations of free base and salt nic... Specifically in a sub ohm setting.... It is not advisable and may lead to ill effects.

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[Sash]

I havent tried nic salts properly

I had a few toots on the Gusto Mini when I visited Vapers Corner a few weeks back.
I did notice the throat hit was very light

So, for those that have tried it - is the attraction that you get the nic loading without throat hit/harshness while you vape?

I realise I am in the minority but what if I actually like throat hit?

So this isnt for me really? Am I right?

I still want to try it properly though

Sometimes I also look for that throat hit. So I am with you there.

 

[craigb]

One of the compounds used to create salt nics are benzoate acid.. Uses at low tempratures this is fine but at sub ohm levels can release benzine and that would not be good for you. Other acids used may also break down into harmfull side effects at heats exceeding 200c

I picked up on this during my own looking around and now that you mentioned it, it has left my mind. As cool as the nic salts sound, I think I'm going to hold off for a bit until some more stringent (and research backed) guidelines come to the fore.

Having said that, I think there will definitely be room for the salts in my vape routine, just want much more clarity on their safe usage parameters.

 

[zandernwn]

The studies show it safe at low vw.. There is no issue with it. You just cant use nic salts in a 3mgml high vw setting.. If used in a mtl as reasonable temps then there is no issue.

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[zandernwn]

Much like the formeldehyde debackle. Use it for its intended purpose and its an awesome nic to use.. I am getting mine today cant wait to play with it again!

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[gavin]

One of the compounds used to create salt nics are benzoate acid.. Uses at low tempratures this is fine but at sub ohm levels can release benzine

Hi, do you have a reference for this?

 

[stevie g]

Benzoic acid.

Been sub ohming 12mg nice salts. Tbh I prefer 3mg freebase nicotine.

 

[kimbo]

I havent tried nic salts properly

I had a few toots on the Gusto Mini when I visited Vapers Corner a few weeks back.
I did notice the throat hit was very light

So, for those that have tried it - is the attraction that you get the nic loading without throat hit/harshness while you vape?

I realise I am in the minority but what if I actually like throat hit?

So this isnt for me really? Am I right?

I still want to try it properly though

@Silver i tried it on 18mg, i am not sure if is just me but i get this weird irritating feeling in my throat, i am not sure if the nic salts i must still get use to, on the positive you get that nic rush, the juice is more tasty, no pepper taste to take away the flavor. very little to non throat hit

 

[Silver]

Thanks @kimbo

I need to try these Nic salts out properly.

 

[Eisenhorn]

@Silver i tried it on 18mg, i am not sure if is just me but i get this weird irritating feeling in my throat, i am not sure if the nic salts i must still get use to, on the positive you get that nic rush, the juice is more tasty, no pepper taste to take away the flavor. very little to non throat hit

Not just you with the throat irritation, have found the same issue with Nic Salts. (would choke and cough wildly when trying to use Nic Salts in a standard sub-ohm RTA, even at low watts) Converted one of my unused 22mm bottom airflow RDAs into an above ohm MTL setup (2x 1.4ohm coils). Since switching to that setup I no longer have the irritation issue.

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[kimbo]

Not just you with the throat irritation, have found the same issue with Nic Salts. (would choke and cough wildly when trying to use Nic Salts in a standard sub-ohm RTA, even at low watts) Converted one of my unused 22mm bottom airflow RDAs into an above ohm MTL setup (2x 1.4ohm coils). Since switching to that setup I no longer have the irritation issue.

Sent from my F3111 using Tapatalk

I have it my BB at 18watt 0.7 coil