Regulated versus Mech Mod

[Silver]

Hi all

Something @Gazzacpt said a while back on another thread has stuck in my mind.

He said with a high powered regulated mod you can just build a higher resistance coil (e.g. 1.5 ohm) and push as much power as you want through it. Versus with mech mods, we build our coils to give us the power we want.

So my question is - what would be the difference between vaping the following two setups?

A) Mech mod setup - 0.6 ohm coil - implying 29 Watts on a fresh battery
versus
B) Regulated mod setup - with a 1.5 ohm coil - and cranking it up to 29 Watts

I don't have a regulated mod that can go that high, so am wondering what the difference would be in the vape itself?

I know a lot has to do with the coil design, but it seems that if you are pushing the same power - the coil with the more wraps should give better flavour and vapour.

Then, checking ohms law, the two setups above, although having the same power, would have different voltages and currents, because the resistance is different
A) mech mod setup - Current = 7 amps, Voltage = 4.2 volts (lets ignore voltage drops)
B) regulated - Current = 4.4 amps, Voltage = 6.6 volts

Just looking at the above, I now would say that the 0.6 ohm coil would probably heat up faster since it likely has less mass. So would probably give a more instant vape.

What are your thoughts? Has anyone tried this and can anyone give some objective feedback?

 

[Mike]

I'm on a regulated device and just yesterday I was doing some comparisons with wire guages on Coiltoy. Considering this, besides the obvious mass difference, there'll also be a change in coil length which is a pretty important factor in my opinion.. If we compare a general 1.4Ω dual coil with a 0.6Ω dualy we could say 8 wraps of 32ga vs 8 wraps of 28ga we are looking at 16mm vs 24mm.. Having more wattage concentrated into a smaller area will definitely have an effect of sorts.

Also if we consider comparing 12 wraps of 30ga (1.4Ω again) to 12 wraps of 26ga (0.6Ω) we see that it's 30mm vs 46mm and when coils get this long I'm pretty certain it impacts wicking - maybe I'm not good at wicking but that's my experience so far. I haven't received my 30ga (or 34ga) yet to test myself so I can't comment any more than that, but I'd also like to know.

Currently I'm on 9 wraps of 28ga compared to my last coil which was 11 wraps of 26ga and it's a significantly nicer vape, the gf doesn't cough (she does sometimes cough before even hitting it though, a bit of an oddball that one) and the warm up AND cool down is much quicker (So you're not left with some overheated vapour in the RDA still with yucky almost burnt flavour IME)

On the topic of surfance area, I'm curious as to when the coil thickness begins to have a negative impact and start acting like a unifom element similar ribbon. This is a very interesting topic that's been bothering me for some time now

 

[Silver]

@Mike, thanks for the detailed response. Your comments are all fascinating and the subjects you are bringing up are definitely the topic of more detailed discussion.

However, in this thread I am interested in the comparison between the "sub-ohm mech" and "higher resistance regulated" at the same high power - say around the 30 Watt level. Have you tried that?

 

[Paulie]

@Silver I have tried similar coil designs (same atty on both) and the main difference between the 2 i found are:

Mech mod - vape quality dependent on battery life
regulated VV/VW - Vape quality is always there till ur battery is dead.

I didnt go into detail though i just tested how good the vape was. For some reason i still think a mech mod with a charged battery gives a better vape and i know im probably gona get shot for saying this hahaha

 

[Mike]

Sirry I may have rambled, I'm a little slow in the mornings with some overnight medication wearing off.

Electrically speaking, there shouldn't be much difference between a theoretical mech without a voltage drop and a regulated mod. That's the biggest change here. The more current you draw from your battery, the bigger voltage drop you'll be getting (I think..). So I think the real question here is to compare a "sub-ohm" style coil with a regular coil (And then you can take that further by comparing 4 wraps to 10 wraps of the same guage, or different guages etc). Like I mentioned, I only have 26ga and 28ga wire for now. I've ordered 50m of 30ga, 34ga and ribbon each which I'll be doing these tests with, but as of yet, I can only speak of the difference between those two gauges at the same wattage (in different forms - tried 6, 9 and 12 wraps of each)

 

[Al3x]

Sirry I may have rambled, I'm a little slow in the mornings with some overnight medication wearing off.

Electrically speaking, there shouldn't be much difference between a theoretical mech without a voltage drop and a regulated mod. That's the biggest change here. The more current you draw from your battery, the bigger voltage drop you'll be getting (I think..). So I think the real question here is to compare a "sub-ohm" style coil with a regular coil (And then you can take that further by comparing 4 wraps to 10 wraps of the same guage, or different guages etc). Like I mentioned, I only have 26ga and 28ga wire for now. I've ordered 50m of 30ga, 34ga and ribbon each which I'll be doing these tests with, but as of yet, I can only speak of the difference between those two gauges at the same wattage (in different forms - tried 6, 9 and 12 wraps of each)

I would like to know the results of these tests @Mike,
Just keep in mind that most regulated mods have a step up so even though the battery is at 4.2v it can push out sometimes 8.3v to the atty, that is depending on battery being used and the mod, so it is very much different to a mech IMO when it comes to constant wattage output, as when a mech Hits at (0.5ohm build) 35watts only when the battery is fully charged and this will drop as it is being used, a regulated mod can hit this build at 50watts all the way till the battery is dead.
But on the other side of things, with 0.2 build a mech can hit at 88 watts where as most regulated mods at this time can only go to 50watts and in this case the mech wins all the way till the battery is at 3.2v but with voltage drop and battery being used I would call it 3.6/3.7v, and the regulated mod is outclassed
And if you go even lower then pushing huge wattage from those mechs,
but we have higher wattage regulated mods coming out soon so will have to re-evaluate the situation then

 

[Mike]

Exactly Alex. That's why I mentioned ignoring any voltage drop. Also I doubt voltage makes a difference here - I would see it as being more accurate to view it as watts / mass / volume / mm.

Also please remember at 0.2 ohms you will not be getting 4.2v. Maybe 3.8v with a good battery and mod which'll be around 70 watts. That's one cool thing about regulated mods. 50W is 50W, not some approximation (unless you have an inline voltmeter.. So with this in mind, 50W on a reg is about the same as a 0.3ohm mech

Edit (this shit is so cool, so easy to get distracted!)

 

[Silver]

Thanks guys

Maybe I should explain myself a bit better as to what I was after.

Allow me to explain.

The issue here for me is that to get more power on my mech (some juices taste better at higher power) I need to use fewer wraps. But there is a point where making any fewer wraps starts affecting flavour negatively. For me that's at about the 6 wrap point on a simple micro coil. Without going dual coil or using thicker wire, there is no way for me to increase the power beyond that point without compromising flavour (at least this is my perspective at this point.)

So the angle I am coming from is that I may be able to make say an 8 wrap higher resistance coil and just "blast" it with a high powered regulated mod . So my question is - has anyone tried this objectively? Is the vape any better on the regulated with the higher resistance more wraps coil? Or is the mech vape with the less wraps coil better?

I hope what I am explaining makes sense...

 

[Al3x]

Thanks guys

Maybe I should explain myself a bit better as to what I was after.

Allow me to explain.

The issue here for me is that to get more power on my mech (some juices taste better at higher power) I need to use fewer wraps. But there is a point where making any fewer wraps starts affecting flavour negatively. For me that's at about the 6 wrap point on a simple micro coil. Without going dual coil or using thicker wire, there is no way for me to increase the power beyond that point without compromising flavour (at least this is my perspective at this point.)

So the angle I am coming from is that I may be able to make say an 8 wrap higher resistance coil and just "blast" it with a high powered regulated mod . So my question is - has anyone tried this objectively? Is the vape any better on the regulated with the higher resistance more wraps coil? Or is the mech vape with the less wraps coil better?

I hope what I am explaining makes sense...

Sorry for going off track, Yes you can with a Regulated mod,
I do this all the time, with Bobas especially, play with the wattage depending on my mood, at 15 to 20w bobas is very sweet, 20 to 35w more of the caramelish tabbaco coming into play and up to 50w unexplanable but good very good. This is just my opinion others may feel it different.
I think you were looking for an answer similar to this. also take in consideration that wicking plays a big part in this as the higher you go the faster your wicking needs to be, if you wick too little at high wattage and long draws you can get a dry hit, which i have experienced and hate.
As to which one is better, depends on you, the mods, and the juice.

 

[Silver]

Sorry for going off track, Yes you can with a Regulated mod,
I do this all the time, with Bobas especially, play with the wattage depending on my mood, at 15 to 20w bobas is very sweet, 20 to 35w more of the caramelish tabbaco coming into play and up to 50w unexplanable but good very good. This is just my opinion others may feel it different.
I think you were looking for an answer similar to this. also take in consideration that wicking plays a big part in this as the higher you go the faster your wicking needs to be, if you wick too little at high wattage and long draws you can get a dry hit, which i have experienced and hate.
As to which one is better, depends on you, the mods, and the juice.

Thanks @Al3x - that is the type of thing I was saying...
I'd really like to do a side by side comparison and see what the difference is.

 

[Paulie]

@Silver i think you onto something here! we should defiantly do a test!

I think its important we get both configurations setup and see what is the best answer for this as a vapor it would be interesting to know what the outcome would be.

Also to add to this is using

-- different attys ie RDA/RBA and clearomiser. eg (magma vs kayfun vs nautilus mini) on both devices.
-- using different juice mixtures (% vg vs pg)

I think the above would defiantly show different results and outcome.

 

[Silver]

@Silver i think you onto something here! we should defiantly do a test!

I think its important we get both configurations setup and see what is the best answer for this as a vapor it would be interesting to know what the outcome would be.

Also to add to this is using

-- different attys ie RDA/RBA and clearomiser. eg (magma vs kayfun vs nautilus mini) on both devices.
-- using different juice mixtures (% vg vs pg)

I think the above would defiantly show different results and outcome.

I agree with you @paulph201
Definitely a big shoot up brewing here.

 

[Al3x]

@Silver i think you onto something here! we should defiantly do a test!

I think its important we get both configurations setup and see what is the best answer for this as a vapor it would be interesting to know what the outcome would be.

Also to add to this is using

-- different attys ie RDA/RBA and clearomiser. eg (magma vs kayfun vs nautilus mini) on both devices.
-- using different juice mixtures (% vg vs pg)

I think the above would defiantly show different results and outcome.

Post your findings
I am using my magma with a 0.5 build dual 7 wraps 26g and prefer it on my regulated
plumeveil quad 26g 9 wraps 0.2 ohms prefer this one on the mech, takes some time to heat up(longer on the Reg) but once its there its there
flavour on both the builds IMO is good, why the preference, dunno, just feels right this way, and I am a flavour junkie so I chase flavour and prefer a warmer vape

 

[Mike]

I mentioned briefly earlier that I've tried 6/9/12 wraps at the same wattage and gauge and honestly for me it's all about the wicking vs heat concentration. I'd say around 8 wraps with 26 gauge on a 2.4mm screw driver was the best I had. 6 wraps got burnt easily (potentially my not-so-great wicking) and 12 took to long to heat up and cool down. Obviously this is all dependant on loads of factors, but that's my opinion.

 

[Paulie]

Okay @Silver i have done a small test from my side and i have the following info for you:

The stuff im using in this test is a Cana 30w, Magma dripper, Smok Magneto 2, 26g plus some rayon for wick.

For the first test i build a 1.5ohm (close enuff) coil running in the Cana at 29 watts

For the second test i build a 0.6 ohm (close enuff) coil running on the Magneto 2

The juice i used to test was Kings Crown (fight your fate) strawberry lemon.

From the 2 tests i defiantly did experience differences in the vape quality.

The first test (cana running 1.5ohms 29watts) i noticed that the vapor was much warmer and gave off difference levels of flavor (less strawberry more lemon)I then dropped the watts to 20 and found that the taste of the vapor had much more balance and that it was not as warm.

The second test using the Magneto and the 0.6 ohm build i noticed the vapor was not as warm and that the flavor was perfectly balanced for my liking.

Please note that this is just my own opinion and that im not a huge fan of hot vapor and that it might suit others more. Also that i am not using a authentic DNA 30 chip might also change things.

 

[Silver]

WOW!!!!

Thanks so much @paulph201 for doing the test!
So you actually preferred the 0.6 ohm coil on the Mech.

Just wondering, for the 1.5 ohm build on the regulated, other than the warmth of the vapour and the more lemon, was the flavour itself more "intense" I.e. I presume that coil had more wraps...

Also, could you share with us how you built the 1.5 ohm and 0.6 ohm. Was it a standard single microcoil ? What ID? How many wraps? Sorry for all the questions, but this is very interesting to me.

 

[Paulie]

WOW!!!!

Thanks so much @paulph201 for doing the test!
So you actually preferred the 0.6 ohm coil on the Mech.

Just wondering, for the 1.5 ohm build on the regulated, other than the warmth of the vapour and the more lemon, was the flavour itself more "intense" I.e. I presume that coil had more wraps...

Also, could you share with us how you built the 1.5 ohm and 0.6 ohm. Was it a standard single microcoil ? What ID? How many wraps? Sorry for all the questions, but this is very interesting to me.

Sure!

The lemon definatly came out more intense on the Cana (1.6 ohm coil 14 wraps on 2.4mm drill bit) I wasnt getting alot of the strawberry unfortunatly. I think it might differ with different juices also!

The 0.6 ohm was 5wraps also 26g 2.4mm dril bit

 

[Al3x]

Okay @Silver i have done a small test from my side and i have the following info for you:

The stuff im using in this test is a Cana 30w, Magma dripper, Smok Magneto 2, 26g plus some rayon for wick.

For the first test i build a 1.5ohm (close enuff) coil running in the Cana at 29 watts

For the second test i build a 0.6 ohm (close enuff) coil running on the Magneto 2

The juice i used to test was Kings Crown (fight your fate) strawberry lemon.

From the 2 tests i defiantly did experience differences in the vape quality.

The first test (cana running 1.5ohms 29watts) i noticed that the vapor was much warmer and gave off difference levels of flavor (less strawberry more lemon)I then dropped the watts to 20 and found that the taste of the vapor had much more balance and that it was not as warm.

The second test using the Magneto and the 0.6 ohm build i noticed the vapor was not as warm and that the flavor was perfectly balanced for my liking.

Please note that this is just my own opinion and that im not a huge fan of hot vapor and that it might suit others more. Also that i am not using a authentic DNA 30 chip might also change things.

now try the same build on both the devices and play with the different wattage settings a bit on the 0.6 build, promise you wont regret trying it

 

[Paulie]

now try the same build on both the devices and play with the different wattage settings a bit on the 0.6 build, promise you wont regret trying it

Yes im going to try that but i think i will give it a day or so with different juices also!

 

[Al3x]

So I decided to give this a test run tugboat with a 1.1ohm single coil well actually a dual series coil no idea what it is called just didn't wanna do the full 10wraps and at 30w this thing is great at 50 this thing isa chucking

 

[Al3x]

Flavour is great very warm vape at 50 though so ya 1.1 ohm at 50 can be done without issues

 

[Andre]

Thanks guys

Maybe I should explain myself a bit better as to what I was after.

Allow me to explain.

The issue here for me is that to get more power on my mech (some juices taste better at higher power) I need to use fewer wraps. But there is a point where making any fewer wraps starts affecting flavour negatively. For me that's at about the 6 wrap point on a simple micro coil. Without going dual coil or using thicker wire, there is no way for me to increase the power beyond that point without compromising flavour (at least this is my perspective at this point.)

So the angle I am coming from is that I may be able to make say an 8 wrap higher resistance coil and just "blast" it with a high powered regulated mod . So my question is - has anyone tried this objectively? Is the vape any better on the regulated with the higher resistance more wraps coil? Or is the mech vape with the less wraps coil better?

I hope what I am explaining makes sense...

In my experience - if you just blast the juice with power on a regulated mod with a higher resistance coil, you destroy the juice and get a burnt taste.

 

[Rob Fisher]

In my experience - if you just blast the juice with power on a regulated mod with a higher resistance coil, you destroy the juice and get a burnt taste.

Agree... tried that today when Hi Ho was on the phone... he worked out the wattage I needed to push the same as my REO's coil... and the result was not good at all on the Nautilus on Sigelei 20W

 

[Gazzacpt]

Hmm seems to work with drippers. Vaped a 1.1ohm coil in a magma cranked to over 20w and was a really good vape I never expected it. Experimentation is required I think gonna find a cana to borrow.

 

[Rob Fisher]

Hmm seems to work with drippers. Vaped a 1.1ohm coil in a magma cranked to over 20w and was a really good vape I never expected it. Experimentation is required I think gonna find a cana to borrow.

Dripper maybe... but I was referring to trying to run my Nautilus Mini at the same power as my REO was getting...