Vapeowave concentrates

Any ways, guys its personal choice,i buy white bread you might buy brown, we are a relatively new to the vape community and been running our DIY selection for a bit over 2months and store since June 2015 and thus far we have not had any negative complaints but only positive feedback concerning our concertrates, one or two guys has mentioned a flavor was not for them but it has been a 95% positive on our concertrates, i personal have had branded concertrates and i must admit there has been some that is just not toooo tasty, last night we hit 1500 concertrates bottled in just over 2 months of running they DIY project, and thanks to each and every one you you guys, as a small business there has been a few ups and down concerning 3rd parties like couriers companies faulty units/mods "2 to date" parcels missing bottles broken due to couriers, getting the correct bottle and labeling. since we started vapeowave as a side business we have been working around the clock as its just not a business to us but rather it has become a passion to us and we just lovin IT. we try our best to accommodate each and every client and giving feedback on matters asap, we have grown from day 1 and aim to grow bigger and better with each and every client we have, we try to bring in only but the latest best and hardware at the best price for you.
So please feel free to pop in at our store or pop us a mail requesting any info we can assist with, or even just a request on how we can assist you.
 
@Vapeowave it takes longer than 2 months to develop cancer from the inhalation of dangerous compounds. Again, unless I'm certain, as someone who's vaping as the safer choice, let alone as a vendor, I'm not willing to take that risk, thanks.
 
@Vapeowave , so none of your flavor concentrates are of the following manufactureres?

LorAnn
Capella
Flavour Art
The Flavor Apprentice
Flavor West
 
Vapeowave said:
Hi Mike, i do hear you i would be glade to share this, but i don't walk into a pick and pay and ask for there invoices or supplier list as that is there success and key to there business, i can provide the appropriate certificates of analysis for any uncertainties on our DIY range from nic, pg,vg and concertrates as everything compiles with the FAO/WHO directives, does any other vendor supply this to there clients or give away a recipe to a client?
Click to expand...
ok hold on i think you are missing the plot a bit here we as diy mixers i think you would agree we are looking for certain types of concentrates for recipes we want to try that recommend certain makes of concentrates that is what i am on about i could not give two toots about other sourced and verified and tested stuff people tend to be brand loyal and trust certain brands as they have been tried by other vapers etc granted like you said many "suppliers" will not supply proof of quality" and what not and that is the risk we take. By playing all cloak and dagger as if people want to steal your suppliers and all that has cast doubt as to how safe and good those concentrates are and quite frankly has put me off all together all that you could have said is these concentrates are sourced from alternative suppliers not all this hoo ha THIS MAKES YOUR BRAND LOOK VERY DODGY INDEED
 
Daniel Saaiman said:
Ok so I mixed up a bunch of different juice this morning and I must say the concentrates are very nice. Haven't steeped yet obviously so I'll report back in a week or so... :)
Click to expand...

Lol... I don't think the serious DIY'er cares less what they taste like. Unless we know, what the name is, in the entrance of the company, where, the stuff, is produced. Simple really :D

But I don't need a reply. I moved on the first time this subject popped up.
 
Dont you make your own concentrates @Mike? Can you prove they are safe? Attacking these guys is not fair and they have clearly stated they will provide as much info as they can. If you don't like it don't buy it.
 
Has anyone actually asked to see the certificates? Would the certificates confirm these flavours safe?
 
Hi, this is Johan from Vapeowave, Clint my partner posted last night. Let me answer all questions in one post.

@zadiac Our flavors are not produced by any of the companies above but we will stock selected TFA, Capella and Flavor West concentrates in around 1 month I estimate. We will still be expanding our own range as well since it is more affordable and some flavors exceeds taste and less % needed on DIY Eliquids compared to some of the flavors of manufacturers above. Needless to say it conforms to specifications and exclude harmful ingredients as mentioned below.

@Mike @Eequinox, @r0gue z0mbie, I actually laughed when I saw the criticism on this post last night since I had the same criticism in one of my other successful businesses within the first 6 months after startup in 2008. Anyone can buy and sell TFA, Capella etc but when someone creates a new brand or anything that is "new" it will be scrutinized. This is human behavior and resistance to change most of the time (or perhaps afraid of competition lol..). Even though TFA is sold in South Africa for a few years they only started to remove Diketone such as Diacetyl, Acetoin and Acetyl Propionyl in 2014 from some flavors, post below for reference. We have this knowledge upfront (and 100’s of other studies) and as attached letter received from flavor supplier these materials are not present. We confirmed many of these materials before not to be present before resale to the public (Diketone, Diacetyl, Acetoin, Acetyl Propionyl, 2-3 Hexanedione, 2-3 HeptanedioneD, Diacetyl Trimmer) but requested additional ingredients mentioned in this post this morning since they guarantee on MSDS all flavors are free of toxic substances and manufactured under FAO strict conditions hence we do not check each and every toxic ingredient with them since it is excluded already according to analysis. We check newly discovered harmful ingredients as soon as new studies emerge and request new flavors based on these studies to ensure it is safe. Details on the attached doc were removed due to competitors always looking for suppliers to steal. So the answer is NO, we will not mention the manufacturer but have all documentation ready in a case where it is needed. In business if you bullsh1t someone regarding a product specification you will be caught sometime and we would not have invested a few 100k on a startup business just to loose it in a lawsuit, needless to say with the additional expansion of DIY flavours and manufacturers we will invest more and can loose this investment if we are not honest to our customers. Sure we have to build trust but currently we "trust" TFA, Capella, FA etc only on what they declare as well, same principle, they will not declare anything that is not true if they really want to have a successful business. If you do not want to buy our range and do not take the manufacturer's letter attached as proof and the MSDS certificates we have then don't or alternatively our customers can buy the TFA or Flavor West flavors we will be stocking. I think most people should consider the Nicotine, PG and VG they are vaping but...lets post to check which vendor will provide their suppliers details for these base mixes or Eliquid recipes, we and yourself trust the certificates provided by your Nic, PG and VG supplier even if they are "branded" it does not indicate they are safe. You get the picture, it is company confidential information and will only be provided if required by law.


We have tested 100+ flavors and only selected 46 flavors (adding a few next week) to be good enough based on feedback from several people (If 80% positive on taste then we will stock it for resale otherwise we scrap it). This is not the vision of most other flavor concentrate suppliers they just buy and sell. Not that I want to bad-mouth TFA but Google TFA poor flavors and there are many so you will be wasting your money on some flavors. Lol...try to work with Lemon-Lime, Sweet Woodruff, Bacon, Caramel Cappuccino from TFA just to mention a few. We will do it selectively based on samples tested by several people when we stock it from these companies not to waste our customers money and our own since if it is not good and not conforming to standards and do not exclude harmful ingredients (if found after a batch is purchased based on new studies) it will be trashed.


TFA Quoted below, Diketone only removed in 2014 from products below, we base our development on knowledge already available and ensure our liquids do not contain the ingredients as mentioned above.


"TFA Quote - COMING SOON - Diketone Free (DX) Flavors (9/19/2014)

We will soon be selling the following Flavors in our 'Bulk Flavors' section that are free of Acetoin, and Acetyl Propionyl (Diketone). Many of our flavors are free of these ingredients, and NO flavor of ours contains Diacetyl (another Diketone) as an ingredient, however the flavors listed below contained Acetoin and Acetyl Propionyl originally, and we have reformulated them to be made without them and are releasing them as a seperate product with the names:


DX Banana Cream

DX Bavarian Cream

DX Hazelnut "


@Vapington, thank you for your post and positive attitude, I am sure you had the same negative criticism when you started your own range of eliquids. Your recipes is what makes your business a success which you already proven in the market.
 

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Hi Johan

Thanks for the reply.

But in my case, no, I am not hesitant to "new" things. I'm a straight forward person, when I ask question - I need the answer to THAT question. The question constantly asked here was who makes it. Simple. That question was not answered.
 
But seriously, in my case, don't feel like I'm attacking your company personally.

I have only every bought from Skyblue and Valley Vapour, because I know what brands they are. I just want to know. Not because I think CAP or TFA are better.... I just want to know.
 
Thanks Johan @Vapeowave. Your information is appreciated, truly.

However the point I was getting at, is that companies like TFA, Flavour Art, Flavor West, Flavorah etc are open to scrutiny. I can contact them and ask for an ingredient list and receive it - in fact some of it is available to the public. That's exactly why they were able to respond to people's concerns about diketones etc. It means a lot for you to come forward directly, in my opinion, Vapeowave should welcome scrutiny and challenges, instead of dismissing them and laughing at the criticism. You seem to have faith and confidence in your product so why not embrace these challenges and prove that they're safe so that there are no doubts and concerns? As a vendor, I keep my standards high and won't just embrace something I do not trust, this is not resistance to change, it's because I strive to create the best possible product.

I personally am very open to new things, in fact I'm quite obsessive about getting that next new flavour. I currently import from 8 different companies - some retail and others commercial. However if I decide to have a sample tested and find something unsafe like titanium dioxide (which was found in unicorn milk), I'm able to get a hold of TFA directly and express my concerns. However in the case of your product, I can contact you. I'm sure your customer service is solid, but at the end of the day, I need to be able to trust that I'm not harming customers with my product and a screenshot of a document that anyone could have typed up doesn't inspire confidence.

Again, please don't take these challenges personally, the criticism is on the transparency, not the service Vapeowave provides or your flavour compositor. I'm sure you'll be able to see the positives of holding up to scrutiny.
 
Vapeowave said:
Hi, this is Johan from Vapeowave, Clint my partner posted last night. Let me answer all questions in one post.

@zadiac Our flavors are not produced by any of the companies above but we will stock selected TFA, Capella and Flavor West concentrates in around 1 month I estimate. We will still be expanding our own range as well since it is more affordable and some flavors exceeds taste and less % needed on DIY Eliquids compared to some of the flavors of manufacturers above. Needless to say it conforms to specifications and exclude harmful ingredients as mentioned below.

@Mike @Eequinox, @r0gue z0mbie, I actually laughed when I saw the criticism on this post last night since I had the same criticism in one of my other successful businesses within the first 6 months after startup in 2008. Anyone can buy and sell TFA, Capella etc but when someone creates a new brand or anything that is "new" it will be scrutinized. This is human behavior and resistance to change most of the time (or perhaps afraid of competition lol..). Even though TFA is sold in South Africa for a few years they only started to remove Diketone such as Diacetyl, Acetoin and Acetyl Propionyl in 2014 from some flavors, post below for reference. We have this knowledge upfront (and 100’s of other studies) and as attached letter received from flavor supplier these materials are not present. We confirmed many of these materials before not to be present before resale to the public (Diketone, Diacetyl, Acetoin, Acetyl Propionyl, 2-3 Hexanedione, 2-3 HeptanedioneD, Diacetyl Trimmer) but requested additional ingredients mentioned in this post this morning since they guarantee on MSDS all flavors are free of toxic substances and manufactured under FAO strict conditions hence we do not check each and every toxic ingredient with them since it is excluded already according to analysis. We check newly discovered harmful ingredients as soon as new studies emerge and request new flavors based on these studies to ensure it is safe. Details on the attached doc were removed due to competitors always looking for suppliers to steal. So the answer is NO, we will not mention the manufacturer but have all documentation ready in a case where it is needed. In business if you bullsh1t someone regarding a product specification you will be caught sometime and we would not have invested a few 100k on a startup business just to loose it in a lawsuit, needless to say with the additional expansion of DIY flavours and manufacturers we will invest more and can loose this investment if we are not honest to our customers. Sure we have to build trust but currently we "trust" TFA, Capella, FA etc only on what they declare as well, same principle, they will not declare anything that is not true if they really want to have a successful business. If you do not want to buy our range and do not take the manufacturer's letter attached as proof and the MSDS certificates we have then don't or alternatively our customers can buy the TFA or Flavor West flavors we will be stocking. I think most people should consider the Nicotine, PG and VG they are vaping but...lets post to check which vendor will provide their suppliers details for these base mixes or Eliquid recipes, we and yourself trust the certificates provided by your Nic, PG and VG supplier even if they are "branded" it does not indicate they are safe. You get the picture, it is company confidential information and will only be provided if required by law.


We have tested 100+ flavors and only selected 46 flavors (adding a few next week) to be good enough based on feedback from several people (If 80% positive on taste then we will stock it for resale otherwise we scrap it). This is not the vision of most other flavor concentrate suppliers they just buy and sell. Not that I want to bad-mouth TFA but Google TFA poor flavors and there are many so you will be wasting your money on some flavors. Lol...try to work with Lemon-Lime, Sweet Woodruff, Bacon, Caramel Cappuccino from TFA just to mention a few. We will do it selectively based on samples tested by several people when we stock it from these companies not to waste our customers money and our own since if it is not good and not conforming to standards and do not exclude harmful ingredients (if found after a batch is purchased based on new studies) it will be trashed.


TFA Quoted below, Diketone only removed in 2014 from products below, we base our development on knowledge already available and ensure our liquids do not contain the ingredients as mentioned above.


"TFA Quote - COMING SOON - Diketone Free (DX) Flavors (9/19/2014)

We will soon be selling the following Flavors in our 'Bulk Flavors' section that are free of Acetoin, and Acetyl Propionyl (Diketone). Many of our flavors are free of these ingredients, and NO flavor of ours contains Diacetyl (another Diketone) as an ingredient, however the flavors listed below contained Acetoin and Acetyl Propionyl originally, and we have reformulated them to be made without them and are releasing them as a seperate product with the names:


DX Banana Cream

DX Bavarian Cream

DX Hazelnut "


@Vapington, thank you for your post and positive attitude, I am sure you had the same negative criticism when you started your own range of eliquids. Your recipes is what makes your business a success which you already proven in the market.
Click to expand...

Dude, I know - I hear you on this one, when I was reading this comment - (("How are we to be certain that there aren't things such as titanium dioxide, let alone things like acetoin or AP? What if there are trace amount of lipids or silica? The fact that you're not willing to be transparent about the source makes it sounds as though it will not hold up to scrutiny")) I thought, what is the point of debating this further - coodo's for breaking this down for the ok'e.

And coodo's for not loosing your shit like they did - my money will stay with VapeOWave. I have lots of respect for how you dealt with this.
 
The biggest issue for me, is not being able to compare percentages for recipes with people all over the world. Something which is easily done with TFA, CAP etc.
 
Chukin'Vape said:
Dude, I know - I hear you on this one, when I was reading this comment - (("How are we to be certain that there aren't things such as titanium dioxide, let alone things like acetoin or AP? What if there are trace amount of lipids or silica? The fact that you're not willing to be transparent about the source makes it sounds as though it will not hold up to scrutiny")) I thought, what is the point of debating this further - coodo's for breaking this down for the ok'e.

And coodo's for not loosing your shit like they did - my money will stay with VapeOWave. I have lots of respect for how you dealt with this.
Click to expand...
i think i will go buy my concentrates at pick and pay even their no name brand at least says no name brand on it and who packages it and to some degree the ingredients and i doubt they will treat a person like you wants to steal their secrets
 
It is cheaper than smoking. Buying gear is a choice we make. With my current gear and mixing my own juices, I spend about R500 every 3 months, which is waaay cheaper than smoking.
 
Like any hobby, the start-up costs are expensive and then gets cheaper, except photography, that gets more expensive when you get into dedicated lenses and stuff. Sorry for the hijack, but when are you joining the diy thread and shearing some recipes @zadiac? ;)
 
Viper_SA said:
Like any hobby, the start-up costs are expensive and then gets cheaper, except photography, that gets more expensive when you get into dedicated lenses and stuff. Sorry for the hijack, but when are you joining the diy thread and shearing some recipes @zadiac? ;)
Click to expand...

Well, at the moment I'm just throwing stuff together to vape and don't really record any recipes. The ones that I do experiment on and carefully record everything I do, are for future commercialisation and thus I cannot share those. Sorry.
Other than that, I'm just working off existing clone recipes found on the internet.
I use the following two websites mostly to get some recipes and ideas:

http://www.kritikalmass.net/index.asp
http://e-liquid-recipes.com/
 
In terms of service I've never had a problem. They respond to emails and deliver on time. Also get calls if their is s delay so in terms of service I think it's superb. Will place my order soon and let you guys know what's my take on the concentrates


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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