# The Vaping Scumbags



## Chukin'Vape

Hello everyone and welcome to the pilot edition of The Vaping Scumbags. This isn’t South Africa’s first weekly vaping podcast but we believe that it is one of a kind. This isn’t just a hardware or juice review show, it’s not just about building coils or DIY mixing. Instead we aim to tackle a wide range of subjects that will be of interest to the broader community of vapers.

We’ll be looking at industry and community news, new gear and juices, we’ll be testing some recipes and giving you flavour notes as well. We’ll have regular guests in from the SA vaping scene and we’ll also fill you in about specials being run by vendors around South Africa. Finally, we’ll chat about issues that pertain to vaping in general, things like health and regulation and design trends. So hopefully you’ll find something of value each week. The show is geared towards South African viewers but we trust that viewers from beyond our borders will also find value in the show.

This show was founded on the principle that your time is precious and we don’t want to waste it. So here is what the show isn’t about: it’s not a clique in which we shout out our homies in chat constantly. It’s not a live show where you have to sit waiting while we sort out technical issues live. It’s not a cloud-chucking or tricking brotherhood where we show off our mad vaping skills, nor is it a vehicle to shill our careers outside of vaping. It’s not a show that we want to drag out. Quite the opposite, we want to make it as punchy and concise as we can. So we pre-record and edit it towards that goal.

Why the Vaping Scumbags? It’s a long story but we all belong to a vaping group called the Vaping Scumbags. And once you’re a scumbag, it sort of sticks and you kiss your dull, dreary pre-scumbag existence goodbye. It’s like being in Goodfellas just with less gratuitous violence and Bronx accents.

Those of you who are members of the ECIGSSA forum will probably know us already.



i





Scumbags
@DanielSLP @RichJB @Clouds4Days @Strontium @Rude Rudi @Stevovapes
@Slick @boxerulez @bjorncoetsee @Scouse45 @Vino1718 @Chukin'Vape @MohVee @spiv @Caveman

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 19


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## Silver

Congrats on this guys

Have only watched the first 20 mins up to the end of the Bobas piece because I need to get going for the day. Will watch the rest another time.

Firstly, its so awesome to see you guys and hear you on the vid. Howzit @Chukin'Vape , @DanielSLP and @RichJB ! Lekker man!

Great one, am looking forward to warching the rest and future vids. 

Just some comments
That star wars intro is so cool. Loved the music but the text that scrolls is not easily visible
I like the three people on the video at the same time. Makes it so interesting.
Jees man, did you have to start your first show with that cancer risk scare. Got me worried. Lol

PS - dont tease Bobas, its a great juice  at the time it was so unusual and tasty that it made a huge impression on me and several others.

Reactions: Like 7 | Funny 1


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## Chukin'Vape

Silver said:


> Congrats on this guys
> 
> Have only watched the first 20 mins up to the end of the Bobas piece because I need to get going for the day. Will watch the rest another time.
> 
> Firstly, its so awesome to see you guys and hear you on the vid. Howzit @Chukin'Vape , @DanielSLP and @RichJB ! Lekker man!
> 
> Great one, am looking forward to warching the rest and future vids.
> 
> Just some comments
> That star wars intro is so cool. Loved the music but the text that scrolls is not easily visible
> I like the three people on the video at the same time. Makes it so interesting.
> Jees man, did you have to start your first show with that cancer risk scare. Got me worried. Lol
> 
> PS - dont tease Bobas, its a great juice  at the time it was so unusual and tasty that it made a huge impression on me and several others.



Thanks @Silver - the intro was only for the pilot, im sure on a higher quality youtube setting it might look a tad better.

Think we might consider making the news section a bit lighter, but we will be chatting about whatever is news at the time. The cancer topic was rough I agree, but we need to chat about it.

@RichJB called Boba's #retrohypejuice , at that price I would like to buy like 1ml from someone who imported it. Hahahaha

Thanks for watching @Silver

Reactions: Like 1


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## RenaldoRheeder

Chukin'Vape said:


> Hello everyone and welcome to the pilot edition of The Vaping Scumbags. This isn’t South Africa’s first weekly vaping podcast but we believe that it is one of a kind. This isn’t just a hardware or juice review show, it’s not just about building coils or DIY mixing. Instead we aim to tackle a wide range of subjects that will be of interest to the broader community of vapers.
> 
> We’ll be looking at industry and community news, new gear and juices, we’ll be testing some recipes and giving you flavour notes as well. We’ll have regular guests in from the SA vaping scene and we’ll also fill you in about specials being run by vendors around South Africa. Finally, we’ll chat about issues that pertain to vaping in general, things like health and regulation and design trends. So hopefully you’ll find something of value each week. The show is geared towards South African viewers but we trust that viewers from beyond our borders will also find value in the show.
> 
> This show was founded on the principle that your time is precious and we don’t want to waste it. So here is what the show isn’t about: it’s not a clique in which we shout out our homies in chat constantly. It’s not a live show where you have to sit waiting while we sort out technical issues live. It’s not a cloud-chucking or tricking brotherhood where we show off our mad vaping skills, nor is it a vehicle to shill our careers outside of vaping. It’s not a show that we want to drag out. Quite the opposite, we want to make it as punchy and concise as we can. So we pre-record and edit it towards that goal.
> 
> Why the Vaping Scumbags? It’s a long story but we all belong to a vaping group called the Vaping Scumbags. And once you’re a scumbag, it sort of sticks and you kiss your dull, dreary pre-scumbag existence goodbye. It’s like being in Goodfellas just with less gratuitous violence and Bronx accents.
> 
> Those of you who are members of the ECIGSSA forum will probably know us already.
> 
> 
> 
> Scumbags
> @DanielSLP @RichJB @Clouds4Days @Strontium @Rude Rudi @Stevovapes
> @Slick @boxerulez @bjorncoetsee @Scouse45 @Vino1718 @Chukin'Vape @MohVee @spiv




Great guys - a bit heavy on our poor bandwidth here in Nigeria, but the first half was very informative. 


Sent by iDad's iPhone

Reactions: Thanks 1


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## Daniel

Like the hardware section ..... not big on DIY so ..... skipped through the rest LOL 

@RichJB damn uncle you do proper research ...... 

Subscribed

Reactions: Like 1 | Thanks 1


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## ivc_mixer

Definitely want to watch this once I get home. Sounds interesting.

Reactions: Thanks 1


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## Mida Khan

Great Video Guys!

Reactions: Thanks 2


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## Chukin'Vape

Mida Khan said:


> Great Video Guys!


Thanks so much for the feedback - we will be dropping a podcast weekly, so please stay tuned. Lots of cool stuff in the pipeline.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gonzilla

Nice work gents! Can never have enough podcasts to play while mixing, subbed up. 

Only disappointment was that @RichJB wasn't wearing a pacman ghost cosplay as he always said he looked just like his profile...

Reactions: Funny 6


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## DanielSLP

Thank you for all the support from this forum. It is appreciated!

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2


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## RichJB

Agreed with @DanielSLP. Thanks very much everybody for watching and, if the show provided some value for you, that means a lot to us.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 2


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## Lawrence A

I watched the whole video last night and wanted to thank you all for putting this together 

Not only was it nice to get to see the face behind the usernames, but I also found it to be very informative and enjoyed the variety of topics covered.

@RichJB you mentioned that the negative effects of the aldehydes was more prominent at higher temps - was there any indication of where that tipping point is - in other words, is there a limit (e.g. 50w) below which the risk is significantly less?

Really looking forward to the next one.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## RichJB

Thanks for your kind words, @Lawrence A. From what I've read, it isn't an on/off type of situation where no bad stuff is produced below x temp, then suddenly starts above that temp. It seems more like a parabola in which linear temp increases result in almost exponential increases of harmful components.

Too many researchers (Goniewicz et al) have found the same thing - that increasing the power through a reference coil increases every chemical we don't want in vapour - for me to dismiss it as paid propaganda or flawed methodology. Yes, some studies went into dry hit territory which is obviously ridiculous and we can ignore their figures. But even pro-vaping researchers like Goniewicz have said that you really want to watch your temps and vape as cool as you possibly can.

It's not a function of absolute wattage as 60W through a low resistance setup is very different from 60W through a super-ohm MTL setup. But for every coil, it holds good - lowering the power going through the coil = safer.

Although, again, the final conclusion is that whatever nasties we are inhaling from vapour, we'd be getting far, far more of it in tobacco smoke. So even if you blow through 60ml of juice in a scorchingly hot vape every day, you're still nowhere near tobacco levels of harm.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Winner 3 | Thanks 1


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## Andre

RichJB said:


> Thanks for your kind words, @Lawrence A. From what I've read, it isn't an on/off type of situation where no bad stuff is produced below x temp, then suddenly starts above that temp. It seems more like a parabola in which linear temp increases result in almost exponential increases of harmful components.
> 
> Too many researchers (Goniewicz et al) have found the same thing - that increasing the power through a reference coil increases every chemical we don't want in vapour - for me to dismiss it as paid propaganda or flawed methodology. Yes, some studies went into dry hit territory which is obviously ridiculous and we can ignore their figures. But even pro-vaping researchers like Goniewicz have said that you really want to watch your temps and vape as cool as you possibly can.
> 
> It's not a function of absolute wattage as 60W through a low resistance setup is very different from 60W through a super-ohm MTL setup. But for every coil, it holds good - lowering the power going through the coil = safer.
> 
> Although, again, the final conclusion is that whatever nasties we are inhaling from vapour, we'd be getting far, far more of it in tobacco smoke. So even if you blow through 60ml of juice in a scorchingly hot vape every day, you're still nowhere near tobacco levels of harm.


Perfectly stated @RichJB. 
I have downloaded the video to watch at my leisure. 
Question - why have we not seen any of your own recipes posted in our threads? Or have I missed them?

Reactions: Like 2


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## RichJB

I haven't got around to posting them. There is always something I want to fix or improve and then I move on to other profiles. I should just knuckle down and finish one of them, get it to the point where I don't feel I can improve it any further. That takes a lot of work but I don't want to release any half-baked recipes that are OK but not anything noteworthy.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Andre

RichJB said:


> I haven't got around to posting them. There is always something I want to fix or improve and then I move on to other profiles. I should just knuckle down and finish one of them, get it to the point where I don't feel I can improve it any further. That takes a lot of work but I don't want to release any half-baked recipes that are OK but not anything noteworthy.


Hehe, the tweaking never stops! Looking forward to your first one.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Rude Rudi

Not a review, but my latest creation will make you drool, for days, and then some!

Holy Holy Custard - A velvety vanilla custard blended with rich caramel and touch of tobacco.

Reactions: Like 6


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## Chukin'Vape

Rude Rudi said:


> Not a review, but my latest creation will make you drool, for days, and then some!
> 
> Holy Holy Custard - A velvety vanilla custard blended with rich caramel and touch of tobacco.
> 
> View attachment 122813



Keen to try this one! Nice work @Rude Rudi !


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## Silver

Sounds amazing @Rude Rudi

Reactions: Like 1


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## Chukin'Vape

Tsup Vape Naysh - Episode 2 is ready. Hope y'all enjoy!


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## Rude Rudi

Me new recipe dropped here Limui Jelly


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## Chukin'Vape

Tsup Vape Naysh - Episode 3 is live. Had an awesome chat with Zain from BLCK, extremely informative. Hope y'all enjoy!

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 2


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## DanielSLP

Thank you BLCK for joining us. It was a great show.

Reactions: Like 1


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## RichJB

Yeah, many thanks to Zain for taking the time to join us and share his expert insights on the flavour and juice sectors.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Rude Rudi

Another Scumbags mix up, Murky Daughters = creamy and light vanilla ice cream adorned by a delicate splash of fresh coffee.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 3 | Informative 1


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## Clouds4Days

Rude Rudi said:


> Another Scumbags mix up, Murky Daughters = creamy and light vanilla ice cream adorned by a delicate splash of fresh coffee.
> 
> View attachment 124492



@Hooked
You may like this.

Reactions: Like 1


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## DirtyD

Great show guys - watching ep 1 - going to download all 3 of them and watch them through the week - thanks for this I like.

If you guys can adapt this to an podcast channel as well it will be awesome - then we can listen to it in the car on the way to work etc

Reactions: Thanks 1


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## Chukin'Vape

Tsup Ohmies, Episode 4 just hit the streets - hope ya'll enjoy!

Reactions: Like 3


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## DanielSLP

Thank you to everyone supporting the podacast and channel, we continue to see great growth, you are all awesome!

Reactions: Like 3


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## Rude Rudi

Plum Custée, A sultry, dense and creamy custard delicately infused with fresh plums.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Chukin'Vape

Tsup Vape Naysh - Episode 5 is out, please go check it out!


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## Chukin'Vape

Episode 6a is live - will be sharing the second half next week. Hope you enjoy.

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 1


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## Chukin'Vape

Just want to thank @method1 aka Mr Hardwick's aka Joel aka the vaping Phil Collins for joining us for the show!

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1


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## Adephi

Chukin'Vape said:


> Episode 6a is live - will be sharing the second half next week. Hope you enjoy.




Really like all the interviews. Gives a look in the "behind the scenes" siee of vaping.

If its alright with you guys I'm going to download the episodes to listen while at work. Don't always have an hour to watch. But really like to listen to the conversations.

Ps: Quite a couple of instruments in the background. Hint for a possible vaping industry mashupp band for Vapecon?

Reactions: Like 2


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## Chukin'Vape

Adephi said:


> Really like all the interviews. Gives a look in the "behind the scenes" siee of vaping.
> 
> If its alright with you guys I'm going to download the episodes to listen while at work. Don't always have an hour to watch. But really like to listen to the conversations.
> 
> Ps: Quite a couple of instruments in the background. Hint for a possible vaping industry mashupp band for Vapecon?



@Adephi - thanks man, yup please go ahead and download - its great for the car, I agree. Most people are doing this. Glad you are enjoying the show man - feel free to share it with all your vape mates. 

I'm happy to play drums - but only if @method1 is the lead vocals. 

Also thanks so much for the feedback!

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Silver

Chukin'Vape said:


> Episode 6a is live - will be sharing the second half next week. Hope you enjoy.




I watched the first 10/20 minutes of the show with @method1 
Congrats to you guys for interviewing @method1 - great !

And was so nice to see you @method1 - howzit!!

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## Chukin'Vape

Episode 6b is out - hope y'all enjoy

Reactions: Like 4


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## Rude Rudi

Queen’s Marmalade - A delicious, thick, citrus marmalade, fit for royalty...

Reactions: Like 3


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## Chukin'Vape

Scumbag goes to Mauritius - had to hustle to find a vape for a local Taxi Driver - Fayas. Also added some cool footage of Mauritius. Hope you enjoy.

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 2


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## Chukin'Vape

Tsup Vape Naysh'on - Episode 7 is out, Hope ya'll

Reactions: Like 1


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## Rude Rudi

Scumbag duty calls for some One Shot guidance...


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## JonnyKnocks

Nice Vids guys.....that vape vendor in Mauritius looks super dodgy....

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Chukin'Vape

Tsup Vape Naysh - the new season has started, please join in and tell us what you think about the topic.

Reactions: Like 8


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## Silver

Great video with very interesting discussion @Chukin'Vape , @DanielSLP and @RichJB 
Thanks!

Reactions: Thanks 1 | Informative 1


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## Daniel

Very insightful and candid...mums the word 

On a serious note as @RichJB pointed out without advocacy (not the YouTube BS reviewers sprouting it) but real legal backing we are fighting a losing battle....

Or we just need someone with connections in goverment and fat pockets  oh wait big tobacco has that covered...

Reactions: Thanks 1


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## Chukin'Vape

Daniel said:


> Very insightful and candid...mums the word
> 
> On a serious note as @RichJB pointed out without advocacy (not the YouTube BS reviewers sprouting it) but real legal backing we are fighting a losing battle....
> 
> Or we just need someone with connections in goverment and fat pockets  oh wait big tobacco has that covered...



Exactly - so instead of muscling up a pointless anti-campaign, our forces together might be the way to go. This is a bitter pill for us all to swallow, but perhaps the smarter move. There are some risks though, this is not the silver bullet. 

Thanks for watching @Daniel

Reactions: Like 1


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## Daniel

Chukin'Vape said:


> Exactly - so instead of muscling up a pointless anti-campaign, our forces together might be the way to go. This is a bitter pill for us all to swallow, but perhaps the smarter move. There are some risks though, this is not the silver bullet.
> 
> Thanks for watching @Daniel



I might be ruffling some feathers but what are the vendors doing besides posting links to petitions and doing live shows? 

We are at the presepous....and what we do from here is entirely up to us...and the legal system...

Reactions: Like 1


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## Adephi

Very good video guys. Very informative. @RichJB you really need to be commended with you knowledge of the industry.

Reactions: Thanks 2


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## RichJB

Thanks @Adephi but I can't claim to be an industry insider. However, I do work from time to time with public health bodies and with regulators so I know how they approach issues and how they reason. The public arguments and community's case for vaping concerns me because I can see already how the regulators and public health are going to shoot it down. And unfortunately, they have the backing of the non-smoking majority, as we saw in SanFran.

After the SanFran vote, Wayne - who is usually very level-headed and pragmatic on matters concerning the industry - tore into SanFran as being "the most cucked city in the US". Do the citizens care what Wayne thinks? Others were heaping scorn on SanFran as "typical liberals". SanFran doesn't care that they are seen as liberals, they take pride in it. On Twitter, a doctor announced triumphantly that the SanFran vote shows that big tobacco can be beaten. Vaping advocacy figurehead Dimitris Agrafiotis tore into him, claiming his licence should be revoked because he wants people to smoke and die. Does the doctor care what Dimitris thinks? Passion and anger aren't going to win this fight.

I think the industry needs a concerted and coordinated effort to present a business case. That will take the considered and expert input of doctors, actuaries, social psychologists, engineers, PR specialists, whose joint efforts are collated and formulated by strategists and presented to govt by advocates. If we do that, we're in with a shout.

I don't know what industry is doing, as I say I'm not an insider. But if we do it here, we'll be doing something that hasn't been pulled off elsewhere. If that is the case, I will be delighted. I just hope we don't follow the same failed path as advocacy in the US has. This fight is too important to be content with losing and then heaping scorn on those who oppose us.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Winner 3


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## bjorncoetsee

Posting this here on the forum so people can see the bad apples in this community. This is what makes a community not grow. People like this. Always have a problem with everything. The people doing the least to make a difference always has the biggest mouth.
A constructive comment giving advice is a different thing from what u are doing @zandernwn
Firstly this comment on youtube.




U are a sad person @zandernwn

Reactions: Thanks 3


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## Silver

Hi guys 
A post above has been edited
We removed the contents of a private message that was shared publicly

Please respect forum rules. Don't share private messages publicly unless you have permission from the other person.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Chukin'Vape

Our intention is to debate possible avenues


bjorncoetsee said:


> Posting this here on the forum so people can see the bad apples in this community. This is what makes a community not grow. People like this. Always have a problem with everything. The people doing the least to make a difference always has the biggest mouth.
> A constructive comment giving advice is a different thing from what u are doing @zandernwn
> Firstly this comment on youtube.
> View attachment 136017
> 
> 
> 
> U are a sad person @zandernwn



Thanks @bjorncoetsee - I responded to the public comment on the page. 




So the intention was never to ruffle any features, our video is purely debating the topic at hand - in a effort to look at the best, and most logical business case going forward. There is a lack of information about the angle "we" will take, therefore we debate all angles on the show. I think @zandernwn might have miss understood our intentions.

Reactions: Like 4


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## boxerulez

Silver said:


> Hi guys
> A post above has been edited
> We removed the contents of a private message that was shared publicly
> 
> Please respect forum rules. Don't share private messages publicly unless you have permission from the other person.


In my honest opinion, a private message on your platform, is yours to regulate @Silver 

What comes from outside ECIGSSA should not be censored. Once you click send it is out there @zandernwn your membership fees here should not save you from that. (This however will be a clear indication of the moral compass of this forum)


"The South African government recently criminalised malicious communications in South Africa, setting out a number of vague new messaging rules which could see you facing a hefty amount of jail time and/or a fine – even if your message is private."

https://businesstech.co.za/news/int...-facebook-or-whatsapp-even-if-theyre-private/

Reactions: Like 1


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## Silver

Hi @boxerulez 

Not sure I understand you correctly. Maybe you can clarify. 

We just trying to uphold our rules here which we've had in place for a long time. It's not right to share private messages in public. 

No one is being protected or anything like that. And it has nothing to do with supporting vendorship at all. 

But if someone sends a private message intended for a recipient then it's not right for that message to be shared publicly. That's our forum rules. Simple as that.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Thanks 1


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## boxerulez

Silver said:


> Hi @boxerulez
> 
> Not sure I understand you correctly. Maybe you can clarify.
> 
> We just trying to uphold our rules here which we've had in place for a long time. It's not right to share private messages in public.
> 
> No one is being protected or anything like that. And it has nothing to do with supporting vendorship at all.
> 
> But if someone sends a private message intended for a recipient then it's not right for that message to be shared publicly. That's our forum rules. Simple as that.




I am aware of the rule but I and many have interpreted it in such a manner that it was to protect abuse of the private messages system here on the forum. What is sent directly to a cellphone is not the private property of the sender but that of the recipient as well and Ecigssa enters into protection and safeguarding of that info/data absolutely nowhere.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## boxerulez

I would also like to bring to your attention the following from the official rules...

"*PM's (Private Messages)*

It is not allowed to disclose the contents of or the participants to a PM at all, it is regarded as confidential between the participants.* Unless of course the PM itself is against the rules (like punting) or one has permission from all participants to disclose.* The Private Message is just that... Private between the participants."


If you examine the underlined above, if you are going to consider all forms of private communication as governable by Ecigssa, then surely the post should be re entered into this thread on the basis of it being outisde of the acceptable communication guidelines as that messages is dirty, below the belt and uncalled for and hence against the rules we adhere to here. (or are supposed to anyway)

Reactions: Like 2


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## RainstormZA

Ugh... Politics again...

Reactions: Agree 1 | Informative 1


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## Silver

Hi @boxerulez 

Not sure why you are so upset about us removing a private message that was shared publicly. 

To our knowledge that message was a private message between two people. That sort of thing should not be shared on here publicly. 

If you would like to discuss that further then please feel free to send me or any of the Admin and Mod team a PM.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


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## RainstormZA

BTW what private message @Silver? That post you mentioned isn't a private message, unless I"m looking at the wrong post. In my opinion, that is a public comment made on another platform and being directed at one of the members who frequent here on Ecigssa, publicly of course.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Alex

RainstormZA said:


> BTW what private message @Silver? That post you mentioned isn't a private message, unless I"m looking at the wrong post. In my opinion, that is a public comment made on another platform and being directed at one of the members who frequent here on Ecigssa, publicly of course.



The "private message" part was removed.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Thanks 1


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## aktorsyl

In fact, since this whole thread has spiralled into a small group of people flinging crap at each other, would it not be best for you all to continue your fight in private?

We're trying to debate legislation and advocacy and all that pops up inbetween are snide comments from multiple avenues. It's sickening. I'm not choosing sides, I'm not even addressing anyone specifically. I'm just not in the mood for toxic bullshit on a public community forum when it doesn't have to be.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 4


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## boxerulez

Alex said:


> The "private message" part was removed.


the screenshot of whatsapp was removed you mean, but anyway. Its clear in this forum that the rules will always suit the paying vendor agenda. And that I can live with, if there is transparency in this regard.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 3


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## Alex

boxerulez said:


> the screenshot of whatsapp was removed you mean, but anyway. Its clear in this forum that the rules will always suit the paying vendor agenda. And that I can live with, if there is transparency in this regard.



We do not have an agenda regarding vendors. We do however have very clear rules with regard to doxxing and or posting private details in public.

The "punting" refers to anyone who thinks it's a clever idea to use the PM system to spam everyone.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 1


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## zandernwn

Firstly, I fail to understand why ecigssa is being attacked. The rules are clear. Even as supporting vendor we abide by the same rules as everyone else.

I send that message do Daniel last night in private. I was and I still am extremely annoyed with the content of their show.

It is unacceptable to present a show to help the community better understand the new regulations and then present incorrect information. My issue with their show is summarized in four simple points:
· Their interpretation of the proposed bill is factually incorrect
· Their commentary in relation to the “knee-jerk reactions”, “inability” and “lack of experience” by the vaping industry is unfounded. I would accept your comments if you knew what you were talking about but its painfully clear that you have very little insight and knowledge into this subject matter. It was irresponsible to put information into the public domain without verifying your understanding first.
· The arguments you put forward was almost irrelevant in its entirety and just confusing the community in an environment where uncertainty and confusion already reigns supreme. You are confusing lines between NRTs, ENDS and tobacco, the lines between harm reduction vs. tobacco, between nicotine products ad nicotine free products. You just making everything worse than is already is
· You were irresponsible to go online without researching this properly. you presented opinions and fact and I have an issue with that in particular.

I chose to discuss this with Daniel in private, because my intention was not to bring the channel into disrepute. You may not like how I spoke to him but frankly I don't really care. I am not here to babysit his or your feelings. I posted that message on their channel to register my objection only after Daniel made it clear he is not interested talking to me.

I am not at all surprised that the message was shared or are doing the rounds. The reality is while we focus on that, the real issue is not addressed and all this is reduced to is a ***** fight on the interwebs. There is nothing to gain in spending energy this petty kak.

But if you are serious about resolving this; My telephone number is 082 551 5538. My commitment to you is that I will set the time aside for everyone who would like to discuss this further - the channel owners included. but I am not going to do it on social media where people are more interested in winning the favor of the crowd than resolving the matter at hand. If the channel owners wishes to bring Kabir on to their show as guest I would happily put them in touch with him so they can get the ball rolling. So if you want to continue having a right go at me, then don't let me hold you back. If you want to resolve this, pick up the phone and speak with me.

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## zandernwn

Daniel said:


> I might be ruffling some feathers but what are the vendors doing besides posting links to petitions and doing live shows?
> 
> We are at the presepous....and what we do from here is entirely up to us...and the legal system...


You are welcome to call me and i will explain. There is a massive collective effort underway with over 170 vendors, juice makers and local and international industry representatives and govt stakeholders on board. The signed petitions by the public is but one of the tools employed to supplement the collective effort which is a long term multi-faceted programme. 

It is ill advised at this time to discourage people from participating in signing the petition. There is purpose behind it. 

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## zandernwn

bjorncoetsee said:


> U
> 
> In short, u have something against the scumbags because ur juices is easily cloned and ur 600k lawyers couldn't do a thing to prevent that


Seriosuly.. Who told you that hahaha? 

If i were to put a lawyer behind everyone who tried to clone our products.. I wouldnt have time to run the business my friend.

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Reactions: Funny 1


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## Chukin'Vape

zandernwn said:


> Firstly, I fail to understand why ecigssa is being attacked. The rules are clear. Even as supporting vendor we abide by the same rules as everyone else.
> 
> I send that message do Daniel last night in private. I was and I still am extremely annoyed with the content of their show.
> 
> It is unacceptable to present a show to help the community better understand the new regulations and then present incorrect information. My issue with their show is summarized in four simple points:
> · Their interpretation of the proposed bill is factually incorrect
> · Their commentary in relation to the “knee-jerk reactions”, “inability” and “lack of experience” by the vaping industry is unfounded. I would accept your comments if you knew what you were talking about but its painfully clear that you have very little insight and knowledge into this subject matter. It was irresponsible to put information into the public domain without verifying your understanding first.
> · The arguments you put forward was almost irrelevant in its entirety and just confusing the community in an environment where uncertainty and confusion already reigns supreme. You are confusing lines between NRTs, ENDS and tobacco, the lines between harm reduction vs. tobacco, between nicotine products ad nicotine free products. You just making everything worse than is already is
> · You were irresponsible to go online without researching this properly. you presented opinions and fact and I have an issue with that in particular.
> 
> I chose to discuss this with Daniel in private, because my intention was not to bring the channel into disrepute. You may not like how I spoke to him but frankly I don't really care. I am not here to babysit his or your feelings. I posted that message on their channel to register my objection only after Daniel made it clear he is not interested talking to me.
> 
> I am not at all surprised that the message was shared or are doing the rounds. The reality is while we focus on that, the real issue is not addressed and all this is reduced to is a ***** fight on the interwebs. There is nothing to gain in spending energy this petty kak.
> 
> But if you are serious about resolving this; My telephone number is 082 551 5538. My commitment to you is that I will set the time aside for everyone who would like to discuss this further - the channel owners included. but I am not going to do it on social media where people are more interested in winning the favor of the crowd than resolving the matter at hand. If the channel owners wishes to bring Kabir on to their show as guest I would happily put them in touch with him so they can get the ball rolling. So if you want to continue having a right go at me, then don't let me hold you back. If you want to resolve this, pick up the phone and speak with me.



I have Kabir's number - thanks Zander, we are planning to invite him for a future show. You obviously have a strong opinion about this, and I can appreciate that - ultimately the idea is to analyse all aspects of a topic, with the information we have - and provide opinions and commentary on it. Its a podcast, and you are always welcome to respond on the comments, and in this thread. 

We need to have the ability to debate regulation in a open forum without getting too xhyped up about it.

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## zandernwn

Chukin'Vape said:


> I have Kabir's number - thanks Zander, we are planning to invite him for a future show. You obviously have a strong opinion about this, and I can appreciate that - ultimately the idea is to analyse all aspects of a topic, with the information we have - and provide opinions and commentary on it. Its a podcast, and you are always welcome to respond on the comments, and in this thread.
> 
> We need to have the ability to debate regulation in a open forum without getting too xhyped up about it.


We also need to be responsible with the content we put out there.. This is not a flavour note where the wrong % mean we lose a 10ml of liquid. You need to get the facts straightend asap. 


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## Daniel

zandernwn said:


> You are welcome to call me and i will explain. There is a massive collective effort underway with over 170 vendors, juice makers and local and international industry representatives and govt stakeholders on board. The signed petitions by the public is but one of the tools employed to supplement the collective effort which is a long term multi-faceted programme.
> 
> It is ill advised at this time to discourage people from participating in signing the petition. There is purpose behind it.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk



Thanks for the feedback and let me be the first to commend you for your efforts 
This is all we as a community want , some feedback. I for one also posted a video , more of a tongue in cheek video about the whole debacle but I see now it's much more serious than I initially thought. 

As you rightly said , everyone is on edge and not fully informed on the process that is currently happening , hence there was a separate section created by the admins (@Silver ?) for all parties involved to share the progress , yet I don't see any posts or threads made to that effect ? Public perception (including the vaping public) needs to be managed as not to create panic and the ever growing phase of creating 'drama' on Youtube just for views ....

I think the intent of the last Scumbags episode was to create debate and discuss THEIR views on the topic , again it's a free society but yes us as content creators or podcast creators need to be responsible in what we put out to the public , I for one will think twice before commenting on these matters as it's well , legal stuff of which I know little of (hence I didn't go in depth on it in my video ....).

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## Chukin'Vape

Daniel said:


> Thanks for the feedback and let me be the first to commend you for your efforts
> This is all we as a community want , some feedback. I for one also posted a video , more of a tongue in cheek video about the whole debacle but I see now it's much more serious than I initially thought.
> 
> As you rightly said , everyone is on edge and not fully informed on the process that is currently happening , hence there was a separate section created by the admins (@Silver ?) for all parties involved to share the progress , yet I don't see any posts or threads made to that effect ? Public perception (including the vaping public) needs to be managed as not to create panic and the ever growing phase of creating 'drama' on Youtube just for views ....
> 
> I think the intent of the last Scumbags episode was to create debate and discuss THEIR views on the topic , again it's a free society but yes us as content creators or podcast creators need to be responsible in what we put out to the public , I for one will think twice before commenting on these matters as it's well , legal stuff of which I know little of (hence I didn't go in depth on it in my video ....).



Its extremely healthy for a community to discuss and debate these kind of difficult topics, if we are worried to voice our opinions we are living in extremely dark times.

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## Daniel

Chukin'Vape said:


> Its extremely healthy for a community to discuss and debate these kind of difficult topics, if we are worried to voice our opinions we are living in extremely dark times.



And I fully agree , it's a free society but we have a responsibility as content creators and reviewers to check our facts before we debate subjects....
For me , if we don't stand together as a community on this , we will fail as a community ....

Kudos for you guys speaking and debating this sensitive topic , and I hope everyone takes away the positive at least from it.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Chukin'Vape

Daniel said:


> And I fully agree , it's a free society but we have a responsibility as content creators and reviewers to check our facts before we debate subjects....
> For me , if we don't stand together as a community on this , we will fail as a community ....
> 
> Kudos for you guys speaking and debating this sensitive topic , and I hope everyone takes away the positive at least from it.



Thanks D, we do check our facts, what we have here is just a difference in opinion. Thanks for your positive feedback.

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## Chukin'Vape

- in this show we run through 2 JuiceFairy recipes and two amazing Mango's. CHECK IT OUT.

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## Chukin'Vape

Episode 2 on regulation is out. Myself and Richard dive deep into the reality if online sales were ultimately banned.

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## Silver

Would love to watch this @Chukin'Vape - just am furiously busy right now...


Will have to watch later....

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## RichJB

There is also the angle that banning cigarette sales online not only closes the minors loophole but also reduces the visibility and accessibility of the product generally, and that banning vaping online serves the same goal. We'll talk about that when we get to the marketing ban.


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## Chukin'Vape

Silver said:


> Would love to watch this @Chukin'Vape - just am furiously busy right now...
> 
> 
> Will have to watch later....


No problem @Silver - I hear a large number of people are downloading the show and listening to it in the car. Thanks for watching the show!!!

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## zandernwn

Not sure if you really care for my opinion but for what it's worth, your last show was well structured, and well presented. The content was sound and factual. good work and thank you

Reactions: Like 1 | Thanks 2


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## Chukin'Vape

zandernwn said:


> Not sure if you really care for my opinion but for what it's worth, your last show was well structured, and well presented. The content was sound and factual. good work and thank you



Thanks for the feedback @zandernwn, we have a few interesting shows planned - so please stay tuned.

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## Chukin'Vape

Wuddup Vape Naysh, the new show is out - in this show we had VPA join us to zoom in on the pending regulation around vaping / smoking in public. Hope you enjoy the show. Also remember to leave a comment around your thoughts if we should be vaping in public!

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## Silver

Chukin'Vape said:


> Wuddup Vape Naysh, the new show is out - in this show we had VPA join us to zoom in on the pending regulation around vaping / smoking in public. Hope you enjoy the show. Also remember to leave a comment around your thoughts if we should be vaping in public!




Thanks @Chukin'Vape 
Will definitely be watching this when I get a chance
Just working furiously on a few VapeCon things this morning...

Reactions: Thanks 1


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## Chukin'Vape

Silver said:


> Thanks @Chukin'Vape
> Will definitely be watching this when I get a chance
> Just working furiously on a few VapeCon things this morning...



No problem @Silver - thanks for all the support - also good luck with all the work setting up vapecon, super exited to go this year. #2XMEGAEPIC

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## zandernwn

Chukin'Vape said:


> Wuddup Vape Naysh, the new show is out - in this show we had VPA join us to zoom in on the pending regulation around vaping / smoking in public. Hope you enjoy the show. Also remember to leave a comment around your thoughts if we should be vaping in public!


Well done! You have most certainly won me over with what you guys are doing. Thank you

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## zandernwn

Hope this makes a difference getting the message out there






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## zandernwn

Typo fixed 

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## Chukin'Vape

zandernwn said:


> Hope this makes a difference getting the message out there
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk



WHAAAAAAAAT  - In a shocking turn of events. hahahaha. Thanks so much for the share @zandernwn, this was really unexpected. Also thanks for the comments, and the support.

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## zandernwn

Chukin'Vape said:


> WHAAAAAAAAT  - In a shocking turn of events. hahahaha. Thanks so much for the share @zandernwn, this was really unexpected. Also thanks for the comments, and the support.


Well done. The content was accurate, responsible and engaging and can make a huge difference in how vaping is perceived by the public. 

I was very excited when I watched this and I really think it was a stellar presentation. 

Keep it up! You certainly have our full support going forward. 

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## Silver

Chukin'Vape said:


> Wuddup Vape Naysh, the new show is out - in this show we had VPA join us to zoom in on the pending regulation around vaping / smoking in public. Hope you enjoy the show. Also remember to leave a comment around your thoughts if we should be vaping in public!




It was a good video @Chukin'Vape
Thanks to you and @RichJB for doing this
Your guests were also very good - Thembi and Fidel
Makes one feel a little more comfortable about the issues when one listens to detailed discussion about them and the complexities surrounding them.

Looking forward to following this topic going forward

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## Chukin'Vape

Tsup Vape Naysh - the new mixers review video is out, and in this video we take a look at one of South Africa's finest mixers Method1 aka Joel aka the other Phil Collins, also the creator of Mr Hardwicks - an extremely popular commercial e liquid brand here in SA. Richard & I mixed up 3 recipes, and talk about them in more detail. Go check it out -

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## Andre

Enjoyable to watch. Thank you guys.

Seeing your audience, would doing a critique/discussion of a recipe created and posted by an Ecigssa member be something you might consider? Asking permission from the member for the sake of courtesy. Was just wondering.

Liked to see the recipe under discussion shown on the screen. Maybe just add the name at the top - could not catch the name of the last recipe from @RichJB's enunciation. Still waiting for one of your masterpieces to be posted @RichJB - one must have done steeping by now .

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## Chukin'Vape

Andre said:


> Enjoyable to watch. Thank you guys.
> 
> Seeing your audience, would doing a critique/discussion of a recipe created and posted by an Ecigssa member be something you might consider? Asking permission from the member for the sake of courtesy. Was just wondering.
> 
> Liked to see the recipe under discussion shown on the screen. Maybe just add the name at the top - could not catch the name of the last recipe from @RichJB's enunciation. Still waiting for one of your masterpieces to be posted @RichJB - one must have done steeping by now .



Hi @Andre - first of all thanks for watching the show, and the positive feedback. I'll add the recipes names in the next show. We mixed up - She's a Peach, Led Zeppola & French Fellow . 

We are always open to critique / review recipes, for the show we look for a body of work - this just helps add more information in a single episode. So if there is a body of work, and its publicly available - we can definitely consider it for the show. If its only one recipe, then we will still be willing to critique it, but it's best to then just post the recipe in this thread - so that we can have a discussion around it.

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## Chukin'Vape

In this episode myself and Richard have a look at the Bill, and discuss how banning Advertising, Promotion and sponsorship - will affect vaping? Go check it out, you need to know the impact!


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## Chukin'Vape

In this episode of Mixer Reviews we look at some of Silky's work, I mix up Lemonade Tropics - and Richard mixes up French Toast & Buttermilk Pie. One of these recipes got a 5 star rating - go check it out.

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## Chukin'Vape

In this episode myself and Richard hang out and discuss the new release from Rebel Revolution aka Iron Lady - and also another semi recent release Viet Cong.

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## Chukin'Vape

Tsup Vape Naysh - the new vid just dropped, it is about packaging and labeling, and how the bill will affect us should it pass. Go check it out

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