# Can local juice lines compete internationally?



## Daniel (18/12/16)

I've not nearly tasted enough juices to know but do you think our local juices are up to par with some of the international brands? 

Also what's stopping local makers from marketing overseas? Legislation I presume is the major obstacles here what with the FDA blah blah. 

Share your thoughts....

Reactions: Like 1


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## Silver (18/12/16)

Hi @Daniel - you are asking a great question.

If you want local vendors to comment on this, let me know and we can move the thread for you to the "Who has stock" subforum. 

In my view though I find the local juices are getting better and better all the time - and several of them are better than many of the internationals I have tried. (At least to my taste) So I would say we certainly can compete on an international level.

Reactions: Agree 6


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## Soutie (18/12/16)

I honestly think our local guys can compete with and even trump the international juices. 

We have helluva talented mixers in this country who, most of all, are passionate about their craft and their lines and that shows in the juices they release. That beats mass produced for profit juice anyday.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2 | Optimistic 1


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## jpzx12rturbo (18/12/16)

Well put it this way.... each time my father in law comes to visit in SA he stocks up on Paulies strawberry lemon cake and a few other flavors to take back with him.
He says it's his favorite juice of all time.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Viper_SA (18/12/16)

As someone who has mixed quite a bit of tobaccos, and pretty proud of some of my creations, I have to say NO. Nothing I have tried even comes close to Tark's Special Reserve Rasputin. Not my DIY stuff or any locally bought tobaccos. I have given up on local tobaccos quite frankly.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## GuardianAlpha (18/12/16)

Having tried quite a few of both local and international myself, I honestly feel that some of our local guys can compete on an international level. #ncvtrinity 

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

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## Hardtail1969 (19/12/16)

My take on local vs international, is pure and simple. I had to travel internationally recently and due to legislation, airline and customs issues, was forced to limit the amount of juice i could take with.
So i went in person to a few vendors and asked, if they would ship internationally, and i was met with a resounding no from all.
So, this forced me to buy local at my destination again, and i am happy i did. 
I found new great flavours, and when i asked them, if they would ship to me in za?

Sure bud, just order!



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## PsyCLown (19/12/16)

I feel as if a few of our local guys could compete internationally. Although you need to keep in mind everyone has different taste preferences but a good juice is still a good juice - it might just not be the juice for you personally.

So not everyone is going to love the same juice is what I mean 





Hardtail1969 said:


> My take on local vs international, is pure and simple. I had to travel internationally recently and due to legislation, airline and customs issues, was forced to limit the amount of juice i could take with.
> So i went in person to a few vendors and asked, if they would ship internationally, and i was met with a resounding no from all.
> So, this forced me to buy local at my destination again, and i am happy i did.
> I found new great flavours, and when i asked them, if they would ship to me in za?
> ...



I feel as if it is more common for the international vendors to ship internationally as opposed to the local ones. Very seldom do we send stuff internationally and if we do, well, it gets a bit complicated as often we do not have accounts with DHL or whomever and it works out really expensive.
I would never want to send anything but a letter internationally with SAPO either.

Where as in the USA for example, USPS international post is actually pretty decent in my experience. Otherwise once again, I feel as if they do it a lot more often and already have accounts with DHL or whomever else.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Hardtail1969 (19/12/16)

PsyCLown said:


> I feel as if a few of our local guys could compete internationally. Although you need to keep in mind everyone has different taste preferences but a good juice is still a good juice - it might just not be the juice for you personally.
> 
> So not everyone is going to love the same juice is what I mean
> 
> ...


While i do understand your point, remember, those "international" retailers, are still "local" in their own country where they operate.

The difference? They are just prepared to ship internationally.

As to dhl etc and accounts? Call them, ask them, its not that hard to get one from them.

My point with my post was to illustrate the difference in approach by retailers overseas, to retailers locally.

And no, these sellers overseas were not large vape companies, but small private vape shops with their own line of juices.

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## mavric69 (19/12/16)

I'd say, our local guys are starting to kill it... Unfortunately, local mixologists are popping up damn near everywhere.. Literally EVERYONE is making juice now. This has both positives and negatives imo.. Positives being, juice is so readily available everywhere and prices are really good at the moment. Downside, theres no regulations (most of u will ask, but why regulate it?)... well, how do we know juice makers are using sterilized equipment, clean room etc... ? we just have to trust them, right? 

A special mention for me, would have to be Zodiac - Zubaid and Jula - Izzard ... not only for flava but all round QUALITY of juice..

Reactions: Like 2


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## Caveman (19/12/16)

I reckon it's a yes and no. I have had some local juices that easily beat the same flavor profile of some international juices, and I have had international juices that simple leave the local equivalent tasting like dirt, that's true of almost any industry though. I don't think as a whole our local lines can compete with international juices, but there are some standouts that I know for a fact will win over their international counterparts.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## rogue zombie (19/12/16)

I prefer two local labels to anything now locally available from the intl. line-ups.

There are definitely a few US brands from the past that I would say were completely unique and outstanding recipes - Tarks Select Reserve, Rocket Sheep and Five Pawns. But of course their prices were also "outstanding" *sarcasm*.


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## StangV2_0 (12/2/17)

I reckon Paulies could. 

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Reactions: Agree 1


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## Spydro (12/2/17)

T
Some from the outside looking in thoughts...

Taste is always subjective when it comes to e liquids. I have tried out a hellofalotof premades, including most of those hyped. Almost all were US made, but also some internationally made as well. The later mostly from European countries, but I was also given the opportunity to try six (6) from SA thanks to brother Rob. (VM Tropical Ice, XXX; Paulies Coffee Cake, Pistachio Ice Cream, Strawberry Lemon Cake; Fogg's Sauce The Milky Way)

Overall premades have been a fail for my tastes. So I started doing DIY almost from the very start of vaping nearly 4 years ago. Other than those six from SA I have only used my DIY's for a long time. Only one of the SA Six was a fail for me, the other five were quite acceptable despite four of them having what were very mild flavors to me. But it's a given that I like in your face flavor. IMO five would do very well if sold to US vapers, and the sixth would have it's following here too albeit more limited. As for "product lines", what I've tried is so limited I can't speak of the full lines from any SA mixologist. But the three from @Paulie I tried suggest that all in his line would be winners.

Despite my DIY getting it done for my flavor chasing just fine, those from SA that I would buy and use as well along with my DIY are hampered by their makers not selling and shipping them direct to the US. The choice of the market(s) they sell to is their's alone though, so if they chose to stay local that's the end of the story for almost all US buyers. Now with the FDA Deeming looming and only a guess where that will end up their window to selling in the US may soon be closed anyway.

Deeming... I personally know the owners of most of the US and Euro premade MFG's that I considered the best of all of them. Some have already been "scared" out of the business by the threat of the FDA Deeming, including one of the biggest. Fortunately the very best of all of them IMO here in the US will not be stopped by these new regs if they do pass as written. Jake has the clout, the capital and the will to take on the FDA and Big Tobacco. So US vapers would have at least one very good source for premade e liquids and supplies. Neither the FDA nor Big Tobacco can stop DIY here.

Reactions: Like 4


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## rogue zombie (12/2/17)

StangV2_0 said:


> I reckon Paulies could.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk



The question is, can international stuff compete with Paulies

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 2


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## Spydro (12/2/17)

rogue zombie said:


> The question is, can international stuff compete with Paulies



Yes.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Mahir (12/2/17)

Guys what do you think makes international juices taste awesome? Do you think international juices consists of more concentrates? As a noob diy mixologist, do more concentrates produce a better flavor? For example a 4 concentrate juice vs a maybe 10-15 concentrate juice?


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## Mahir (12/2/17)

rogue zombie said:


> I prefer two local labels to anything now locally available from the intl. line-ups.
> 
> There are definitely a few US brands from the past that I would say were completely unique and outstanding recipes - Tarks Select Reserve, Rocket Sheep and Five Pawns. But of course their prices were also "outstanding" *sarcasm*.



Haha yeah I don't think anyone can compete with Rocket Sheep. Best e liquid producers in the world IMO, ANML is also up there.

Reactions: Like 1


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## rogue zombie (12/2/17)

Mahir said:


> Haha yeah I don't think anyone can compete with Rocket Sheep. Best e liquid producers in the world IMO, ANML is also up there.



Ye Rocket Sheep do make outstanding stuff, for sure.


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## Clouds4Days (12/2/17)

Mahir said:


> Guys what do you think makes international juices taste awesome? Do you think international juices consists of more concentrates? As a noob diy mixologist, do more concentrates produce a better flavor? For example a 4 concentrate juice vs a maybe 10-15 concentrate juice?



It doesnt come down to the amount of concentrate used its the % of those concentrates used that makes all the difference.


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## Mahir (12/2/17)

rogue zombie said:


> Ye Rocket Sheep do make outstanding stuff, for sure.



Purple Alien is my all time favorite, have you tried the new Watermelon infused? Oh geez, I got a Vapegasm after that. Unreal.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Mahir (12/2/17)

Clouds4Days said:


> It doesnt come down to the amount of concentrate used its the % of those concentrates used that makes all the difference.



Yeah, I meant like maybe 10-15 concentrates @ maybe 0.25% +


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## Clouds4Days (12/2/17)

Mahir said:


> Yeah, I meant like maybe 10-15 concentrates @ maybe 0.25% +



No not necessarily its how all the flavours work and compliment eachother using the right percentages.

Especially when you aiming for a certain flavour profile too much % of a certain something can throw that profile off.

And international juices (especially US juice) generally is much more sweet (use alot of sweetner)

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Paulie (12/2/17)

Wow thanks for all above i appreciate it

Reactions: Like 4


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## Neal (13/2/17)

Paulie said:


> Wow thanks for all above i appreciate it



Mate, I spend between 3 - 6 months of the year in UK, your Pistachio Ice Cream is definitely up to any of the international premiums I have tried whilst on my travels. I shall be stocking up before my next trip to avoid withdrawal symptons experienced on last visit.

Reactions: Like 1 | Thanks 1


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## Dewald (13/2/17)

There are definitely some South African juices that can compete internationally. Not only on flavour, but price as well.
Juice here is unbelievably expensive even for the "meh" ones. Talking about €20 for a 30 ml bottle.

When I arrived in Germany I went crazy with the international line-up I could finally get my hands on, including the american ones. Even though there were some outstanding ones there were none that could compete with the complexity of XXX or the pure joy of any Paulies juice. I know that taste is subjective and had I like tobaccos no SA juice could compete, but man I miss the SA stuff.

Also, the vendors in SA are much better than here and frankly the entire EU. Better service and know-how, plus that feeling of "community" is something you won't find here.

Reactions: Like 5 | Winner 2 | Thanks 1


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## Oupa (14/2/17)

Dewald said:


> There are definitely some South African juices that can compete internationally. Not only on flavour, but price as well.
> Juice here is unbelievably expensive even for the "meh" ones. Talking about €20 for a 30 ml bottle.
> 
> When I arrived in Germany I went crazy with the international line-up I could finally get my hands on, including the american ones. Even though there were some outstanding ones there were none that could compete with the complexity of XXX or the pure joy of any Paulies juice. I know that taste is subjective and had I like tobaccos no SA juice could compete, but man I miss the SA stuff.
> ...



Thank you for the kind words @Dewald


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## CMMACKEM (24/9/17)

Compared to the USA definitely not.

But compared to countries such as the UK and France, SA juice in my opinion is much better.


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## wikus (24/9/17)

I would say a lot of local guys buy concentrates locally which in turn makes there juices what they are, I reckon there is a big range of different and better quality concentrates overseas hence some of the imported juices just having a better overall taste and flavour. But for me I buy 95% local juice and love most of them, the international juices for price vs performance just doesn't justify them.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## CMMACKEM (24/9/17)

wikus said:


> I would say a lot of local guys buy concentrates locally which in turn makes there juices what they are, I reckon there is a big range of different and better quality concentrates overseas hence some of the imported juices just having a better overall taste and flavour. But for me I buy 95% local juice and love most of them, the international juices for price vs performance just doesn't justify them.



It is only really worth bringing them in if you get wholesale pricing which is in my experience, cheaper than buying local juice at retail prices.

The super premium, designer or craft juice such as The Mamasan, Moku Oystsu, Ripe Vapes and ANML however is worth buying irrespective of price.

Reactions: Like 1


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