# DIY: Speed steeping max-VG juice



## KrayFish404 (15/6/15)

Hi everyone

_This has been randomly and extensively discussed, in various posts. There may be some duplication of info. Sorry about that, but to be honest there was a lot of info which was not applicable to this exercise. _

I had a very long and extremely informative discussion with @Derick from SkyBlue this weekend.

I was going to setup a magnetic stirrer (in the means of a fan with an attached harddrive magnet, and this in return will spin a magnetic teflon coated stirrer bar)

Now I am allergic to PG, so my steeping times and methods are greatly affected. We all know VG is a lot thicker, and needs a lot longer to steep.

So Derick reminded me of the viscosity of VG (and probably even PG), and I thought... "Hmmm, I wonder if the smell of a burnt-out plastic PC fan will make juice taste better?"

So scrapping that idea it will need to gets down to other forms of agitation - by shaking, stirring, applying heat, and various combos.

Then we also thought about it - nicotine doesn't really like a lot of agitation. Temperature degrades it. So these guys who use a microwave, or suspending in boiling water... Stop that. 

And shaking and stirring...? Nicotine also don't like being oxidized. The more bubbles, the more oxygen.


So it got me thinking... What happens if you simply add the nicotine after extreme agitition?

I did the DIY, adding all the flavours. Added warm water to my little ultrasonic. I got mine for R480 including shipping, tiny one but is so perfect for cleaning out that machine oil from a brand new RBA/RTA, see here, BidorBuy was the cheapest:

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/search/ultrasonic+cleaners

It is 30 & 50 watt, and does 1 to 5 minutes at a time:




So the hint per Derick is this as well... Don't aggitate the flavours either - as they can also separate into their own individual flavours (yes, even a single flavour consists of multiple flavours to make it taste perfect)

So keep the heat down, probably down to 45 degrees. Add your final mixture (minus the nicotine!), let it just sit there, preferably in a glass bottle, leave it open, and wait for it to get very runny. Now shake the life out of it. And after realising the cap is still off, put it on, shake it more, and clean the kitchen.

Now you will see the liquid is milky in colour - that is just tiny bubbles. Return it to its bath, remove the caps, and put the ultrasonic on. One session to mine is 5 minutes. Notice how after 5 minutes the liquid is completely clear again, no milkiness? In a dark cupbard that usually took me a day plus to clear.

By now the water would have probably cooled down. I say reheat, and repeat.

Now simply add the nicotine to your desired level. Don't reheat the water, just run the ultrasonic again, after a gentle stir.

The glass bottles I used came from Consol, I bought them at Plastics for Africa. I think they were R4.50 for a 100ml. The cap they came with can be tossed, they do not seal properly.

Now from my experience with VG - it smells ok for the first couple of weeks. In fact it smells great. But it is like that custard powder in a bottle? You just had to stick a spoon in there to taste it didn't you? Damn awful. It is like something that is so tasteless, it steals taste from its surroundings. A blackhole for taste. It is that tasteless. Yip - that is max-VG even after 3 weeks.

But last night I was able to experience 2 mixes where it was just about ready, in 30 minutes. 15 minutes in total in the ultrasonic. Very vapeable, very tasty. Yes I am going to try this on my other mixes as well, some has been steeping for more than a month with less results than this.


Effectively achieved here was:

1. VG was combined with flavour at a high temperature
2. This mix was agitated at maximum levels
3. Nicotine was only introduced after all factors that could degrade nicotine was eliminated


For the guys who DIY with PG the above probably won't matter to you. You are lucky. Count those stars.


DIY VG is time-consuming, you have to be very patient, hopefully the above helps a couple of guys. There is nothing more frustrating than imagining something awesome, and only be able to experience it months later. Or leering at all of you who are not PG-sensitive, enjoying all the wonderful products to you. I am like a diabetic in a candy-store. 

But I will never stop.


Thanks Derick, you are doing such a grand job educating all of us.

Reactions: Like 6 | Winner 3 | Informative 2


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## zadiac (15/6/15)

I've been doing the "add the nicotine later" thing since I started mixing. After I give the juice the warm water and shake treatment, I add the nicotine and then let it sit to steep, only giving it a slow shake every day. Been doing that for months now. Only way I steep.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2


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## KrayFish404 (15/6/15)

zadiac said:


> I've been doing the "add the nicotine later" thing since I started mixing. After I give the juice the warm water and shake treatment, I add the nicotine and then let it sit to steep, only giving it a slow shake every day. Been doing that for months now. Only way I steep.


That sounds more like a confession than you agreeing, ha ha ha! Excellent @zadiac

Reactions: Like 2


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## zadiac (15/6/15)

KrayFish404 said:


> That sounds more like a confession than you agreeing, ha ha ha! Excellent @zadiac



Well, if it's a confession, then so be it.

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 1


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## Redeemer (15/6/15)

Sorry man, very informative, but when I randomly read:
"Now shake the life out of it. And after realising the cap is still off, put it on, shake it more, and clean the kitchen."
I almost fell off my chair laughing! Now my colleagues must think its time to call the men in white coats to strap me up and cart me away!

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 3


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## VapeSnow (15/6/15)

I have a quick question. I like all my DIY liquids at 80/90 vg. So do I need to add more flavoring % in to a 90/10 mix as what I will add to a 50/50 blend. 

Or do you add the same flavoring % but VG just need to steep for longer?

Reactions: Like 2


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## Derick (15/6/15)

VG is not as good at carrying flavours as PG, so your mixes will tend to taste a bit more muted - you can try and add more flavouring to compensate, but go too high and you will get that perfumey/chemical taste from the flavourings.

For some reason high VG mixes takes longer to steep - probably something to do with PG being a better solvent than VG - so they tend to combine better/easier in a higher PG mix.

So steep a bit longer - how long will depend on your particular tastes - there have been plenty of mixes I made that taste fine unsteeped, they just become much better steeped - so steep until it tastes good to you

Reactions: Like 6


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## VapeSnow (15/6/15)

Derick said:


> VG is not as good at carrying flavours as PG, so your mixes will tend to taste a bit more muted - you can try and add more flavouring to compensate, but go too high and you will get that perfumey/chemical taste from the flavourings.
> 
> For some reason high VG mixes takes longer to steep - probably something to do with PG being a better solvent than VG - so they tend to combine better/easier in a higher PG mix.
> 
> So steep a bit longer - how long will depend on your particular tastes - there have been plenty of mixes I made that taste fine unsteeped, they just become much better steeped - so steep until it tastes good to you


Thx for the info @Derick. I'm waiting fir my ultrasonic cleaner and hope that will help the steeping proses.

Reactions: Like 5


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## Silver (15/6/15)

Great post @KrayFish404 
Very well written and I also chuckled at the juice going all over the kitchen. Lol
Wishing you well with the juice steeping and creations!!

Reactions: Like 4


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## KrayFish404 (16/6/15)

Silver said:


> Great post @KrayFish404
> Very well written and I also chuckled at the juice going all over the kitchen. Lol
> Wishing you well with the juice steeping and creations!!


Weird how we get so bored with one flavour... And that after smoking the same packet of Stuyvesant Blue for 22 years with no complaint...
I am so over dessert vapes, and the sweets and cookies and peanut butter. It is as if we are all hunting down that perfect nostalgic flavour - I bet if someone created Kreols it will be best seller. But for a week only.
I am a bit tired of the fly by night vapes. Get back to basics, clone that recipe that has stood the test of time - and only then personalise it.
I am going to see if I can hunt down a list of say the 20 best juice in the world, who has been on the list for more than 2 years at least.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Silver (16/6/15)

KrayFish404 said:


> Weird how we get so bored with one flavour... And that after smoking the same packet of Stuyvesant Blue for 22 years with no complaint...
> I am so over dessert vapes, and the sweets and cookies and peanut butter. It is as if we are all hunting down that perfect nostalgic flavour - I bet if someone created Kreols it will be best seller. But for a week only.
> I am a bit tired of the fly by night vapes. Get back to basics, clone that recipe that has stood the test of time - and only then personalise it.
> I am going to see if I can hunt down a list of say the 20 best juice in the world, who has been on the list for more than 2 years at least.



I do agree with you on the fad issue
But then again, i think vapers are just so amazed that the vape can taste like anything that they want to experiment, so new and different juices are bound to sell well until the next one comes along

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1


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## KrayFish404 (12/9/16)

An update to this post, I haven't given this much TLC since I wrote this, more than a year ago.

I've not done much DIY'in since, but in the last few months I have been fixing my old blends, and figured out quite a few things, also read quite a few Reddit posts regarding the same maxVG topic.

It seems many of the guys actually makes their blends in maxVG, specifically to see what shines and what does not. And then only drop it down to 60/40, or 70/30ish. I would have assumed the other way around, because why would you want to wait a month for a batch of samples to get ready, but that time you've lost motivation, and a very good chance someone else came to the same idea of a recipe. So personally I would debunk that idea.

Then one of the things I learned in the hard way: bescause VG doesn't carry the flavour as well as PG doesn not mean you must add more concentrates. Do not over compensate. Every single one of my batches are botched. But, I managed to fix most of them, and they are mostly vapeable now. They are all older than a year, and impurities have slightly messed with a few things. And back then you thought you could swap Strawberry Ripe TFA with Rasberry Sweet Capella - because that is what you had and it should taste the same, right? Quite wrong - there are a reason why some of these top rated recipes call for very specific flavours from very specific vendors.

Rule #1: don't add more concentrates.
Rule #2: stick to the recipe. Only change bits afterwards unless you know the concentrates
Rule #3: yes argue with me here. This is my opinion. Go make your clones because that is how people practise, same with singing covers of well know artists. But please, be original and don't sell your clones? The market is already flooded with YAKC of Looper and strawberry thing.

And this little trick I learned from one of our well-known juice vendors: add no more than 1% distilled water. I have no made juice from recipes by Wayne Walker (yes I know many like ir dislike him, same as we do with Rip Trippers) but honestly I can say I made Funfetti as a shake and vape... Well make that 1 day steep, and that at 83/17, and it was wonderfully vapeable. 

But no more than 1%. It will make the juice bubble and crack, the same as a wet Clapton would do.

Reactions: Like 6 | Winner 2


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## SAVaper (12/9/16)

Thanks for the info.

Reactions: Like 3


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## NewOobY (12/9/16)

KrayFish404 said:


> An update to this post, I haven't given this much TLC since I wrote this, more than a year ago.
> 
> I've not done much DIY'in since, but in the last few months I have been fixing my old blends, and figured out quite a few things, also read quite a few Reddit posts regarding the same maxVG topic.
> 
> ...


@Rude Rudi read this bro, here is a gentleman that actually uses distilled water to make his juices more fluid.

Reactions: Like 3


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## KrayFish404 (12/9/16)

NewOobY said:


> @Rude Rudi read this bro, here is a gentleman that actually uses distilled water to make his juices more fluid.


I think distilled water is the safest bet if you want to replace PG. Obviously the pro juice makers won't comment - but there are some guys recommending saline solution which makes certain flavours pop. I even saw a recipe which said lemon juice. And white vinegar for tobacco vapes. The authenticity of this I cannot prove, not will I recommend those.

Reactions: Like 3 | Thanks 1


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## method1 (12/9/16)

One of my fave juice makers in the US (now sadly shut down due to the FDA shenanigans) used to do max VG with distilled water instead of PG.

Several of the actual flavourings we use also contain water, so the use of water is definitely a tried and tested thing.

Reactions: Like 5 | Winner 1


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## KrayFish404 (12/9/16)

method1 said:


> One of my fave juice makers in the US (now sadly shut down due to the FDA shenanigans) used to do max VG with distilled water instead of PG.
> 
> Several of the actual flavourings we use also contain water, so the use of water is definitely a tried and tested thing.


Awesome thanks for confirming that @method1 

Per chance, who was this vendor?

Reactions: Like 3


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## Resistance (10/1/19)

@vicTor I opened a thread to discover this one.usefully info here too

Reactions: Like 1 | Thanks 1


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