# Ratios on existing e-liquids.



## COA Tracks

Hey everybody,

As per the advice of some of the members here, I upgraded from a Twisp to a Subox Mini. The universe is a changed place people....best move of 2016 thus far. So thanks to all those who encouraged the change. With the new device, which by the way, works like a freekin charm, other doors have opened. I am now trying my hand at making my own liquids. I have already made 2 batches which I am leaving to stand for a week (as advised by other experienced mixers which I met in store yesterday as luck would have it). But now while that is in process, I have gone ahead and bought the regular ready mixed liquid just to see me through until my batch has "matured". The liquids I do like are of the thinner variety and as it has been explained to me, not suited for the Subox because of the its thinness. So I would like to know if there is a recipe for thickening the ready made stuff so that it is suitable for the Subox. Is there someone who can advise on this or perhaps suggest a link or something I could go and check out to get that done properly.

Thanks,

Morné - Centurion

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## shaunnadan

VG - vegetable glycerin is the thick stuff your looking for

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## shaunnadan

what your looking for is BP grade

so its available at a few diy suppliers :

http://valleyvapour.co.za/product/vegetable-glycerine-vg/

http://www.vapeowave.co.za/index.ph...de-99-9-purity-for-vaping-eliquid-ejuice.html

http://www.skybluevaping.co.za/DIY-E-liquid-Range/DIY-E-liquid-Bases/DIY-VG-0-250ml

also available at dischem 

dolly varden is also suitable and is available everywhere.

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## COA Tracks

shaunnadan said:


> VG - vegetable glycerin is the thick stuff your looking for


Yes mate,

Thanks for your reply. I know that. What I want to know is what is the ratio to mix into the existing off the shelf stuff. How much VG and PG do I need to add to get it to the right consistency. Is there some sort of formula to work from. I added some VG to a Red Bull mix. It made it "thicker", but it is rather "dry" and not as smooth as what I am used to, there's a notable difference.


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## shaunnadan

now your thin juice should have a ratio. perhaps its 50/50. if you wanted to thicken it up all you need to do is add some pure vg. this will dilute the flavour and its best if you can allow it a bit of steep time to mix evenly.

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## COA Tracks

shaunnadan said:


> now your thin juice should have a ratio. perhaps its 50/50. if you wanted to thicken it up all you need to do is add some pure vg. this will dilute the flavour and its best if you can allow it a bit of steep time to mix evenly.


Perhaps that may be my problem,
I mixed it, shook it vigorously for about a minute, and then chucked it into the tank. Mt thinking was that as it is already "good to go", adding some VG would just thicken it and be ready to use...hmmm...I am still VERY new to this. I have VG and PG...was hoping that there might be a formula of sorts to get the mix right.


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## shaunnadan

its a bit hit an miss actually. you can take 15ml nicoticket juice at 18mg dilute it down to 60ml and it will still retain alot of its flavour.

the best thing is to do a small 5ml sample and then test from there. often when diluting each juice has its own ratio it can be stretched to

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## COA Tracks

shaunnadan said:


> its a bit hit an miss actually. you can take 15ml nicoticket juice at 18mg dilute it down to 60ml and it will still retain alot of its flavour.
> 
> the best thing is to do a small 5ml sample and then test from there. often when diluting each juice has its own ratio it can be stretched to


Ohh, now that you mention it, I don't use nicotine at all, I am just after the flavour. But, I get what you are saying. To clarify, when thickening thin liquids, I just have to add VG, and no PG? Is that correct?


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## shaunnadan

just adding vg will get it to the thicker ratio but i prefer to add a little tiny bit of pg just to help carry the flavour

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## COA Tracks

shaunnadan said:


> just adding vg will get it to the thicker ratio but i prefer to add a little tiny bit of pg just to help carry the flavour


Thanks Shaun, appreciate the comments.


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## shaunnadan

COA Tracks said:


> Thanks Shaun, appreciate the comments.



your welcome

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## Andre

I can see no reason why the "thinner variety" juice should not work in your Subox tank. Maybe try it first.

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## COA Tracks

Andre said:


> I can see no reason why the "thinner variety" juice should not work in your Subox tank. Maybe try it first.


Hi Andre, I was advised against it, so I am rather sceptical. I was told that the thinner stuff will leak out of the tank and could lead to damage of the unit. Obviously I am trying to avoid that. The Twisp was a very basic machine so there was nothing fancy about its operation. Chuck the liquid in and off you go. The Subox is more of a serious piece of hardware, as I am sure you know. I don't want to risk damaging it due to inexperience. If someone will come forward and confirm that it is 100% safe to do so, then I'll give it a crack for sure...


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## shaunnadan

COA Tracks said:


> Hi Andre, I was advised against it, so I am rather sceptical. I was told that the thinner stuff will leak out of the tank and could lead to damage of the unit. Obviously I am trying to avoid that. The Twisp was a very basic machine so there was nothing fancy about its operation. Chuck the liquid in and off you go. The Subox is more of a serious piece of hardware, as I am sure you know. I don't want to risk damaging it due to inexperience. If someone will come forward and confirm that it is 100% safe to do so, then I'll give it a crack for sure...



it will work fine. 

the leaking is rather minor and was actually an issue with the coils and not the unit. its not like it will just pour out the second you fill it up but there may be some gargling.

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## COA Tracks

shaunnadan said:


> it will work fine.
> 
> the leaking is rather minor and was actually an issue with the coils and not the unit. its not like it will just pour out the second you fill it up but there may be some gargling.


Thanks again Shaun. The batch I have in now is what I mixed earlier this morning. I had to drop the wattage from 20 down to 15 as it was a very strong sensation. I have significantly less cloud now but the taste is pretty much the same (hardly a difference). I'd like to keep the taste but would also like to increase the cloud to what it was prior. I am having a problem paying R 150 for 30ml of liquid. It's preposterous, I can't see the justification in that. So making my own liquids is by all accounts the way to go (in my personal opinion). I just need to get it spot on...but I appreciate the help and advice dispensed here. Much appreciated...

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## shaunnadan

COA Tracks said:


> Thanks again Shaun. The batch I have in now is what I mixed earlier this morning. I had to drop the wattage from 20 down to 15 as it was a very strong sensation. I have significantly less cloud now but the taste is pretty much the same (hardly a difference). I'd like to keep the taste but would also like to increase the cloud to what it was prior. I am having a problem paying R 150 for 30ml of liquid. It's preposterous, I can't see the justification in that. So making my own liquids is by all accounts the way to go (in my personal opinion). I just need to get it spot on...but I appreciate the help and advice dispensed here. Much appreciated...



so perhaps slight adjustment with vg/pg and maybe speed steeping (hot water bath) could help you find the right mark.

taste is a very unique thing. i spent close to R600 for 2x 30ml bottles and its not to my liking , im currently vaping a diy thats most prob too sweet for anyone else to think off and im loving it.

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## COA Tracks

shaunnadan said:


> so perhaps slight adjustment with vg/pg and maybe speed steeping (hot water bath) could help you find the right mark.
> 
> taste is a very unique thing. i spent close to R600 for 2x 30ml bottles and its not to my liking , im currently vaping a diy thats most prob too sweet for anyone else to think off and im loving it.


Ok. I have a 12 ml bottle as test sample. I added 6ml flavour (off the shelf mix, not concentrated), 3ml PG and 3ml VG. I have now submerged it in hot water. I will remove it from there in about a minute or 2 and then try it out.


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## shaunnadan

COA Tracks said:


> Ok. I have a 12 ml bottle as test sample. I added 6ml flavour (off the shelf mix, not concentrated), 3ml PG and 3ml VG. I have now submerged it in hot water. I will remove it from there in about a minute or 2 and then try it out.



perhaps also you could add in shaking like crazy and repeating the process a few times

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## COA Tracks

shaunnadan said:


> perhaps also you could add in shaking like crazy and repeating the process a few times


Yes, the shaking I do ...but only once. You are suggesting I do it a few times?


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## Alex

Why don't you try mixing a small batch with some PG. A few people I know much prefer it over VG. You may discover that you are one of the crazy ones like us.

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## shaunnadan

COA Tracks said:


> Yes, the shaking I do ...but only once. You are suggesting I do it a few times?



most of my juices i steep the old fashioned way (leave them alone for a few weeks)

but when im in a hurry :

coffee frother on the end of a cordless drill. mix that up till its semi froth
then 10min in the ultrasonic 

repeat about 3 times and then taste it

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## Clouds4Days

@COA Tracks 
Diy is the way to go.
I been vaping commercial juice for a month now and it hits the pockets heavy at R300 a week. That's R1200 a month. You can basically buy a new mod every month at that price.
I got my diy kit this Friday that just passed and it's the best choice I made.
It cost me R550 but I got 500ml pg, 500ml vg, 100ml nic and 9 concentrations from vapeowave. 
I've mixed 5 different juices 3 X 15ml and 2 X 30 ml bottles and I still got loads of ingredients to mix more.
Diy definitely the way to go.

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## COA Tracks

Alex said:


> Why don't you try mixing a small batch with some PG. A few people I know much prefer it over VG. You may discover that you are one of the crazy ones like us.


Hi Alex, thanks for commenting. I just made a fresh batch: 12ml bottle - 6ml Bleuberry 9off the shelf mixed, not concentrated) - 3ml VG - 3ml PG. Shook like crazy for about 1-2 minutes - dropped it in hot water for a further 1-2 minutes. Just tried it and the result is much better than my batch from earlier this morning. More cloud and the flavour is consistent, and pushed up the wattage from 15 to 20. Slowly making progress...but I think there can be improvement still.


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## Clouds4Days

@shaunnadan 
When you put the bottles in the ultrasonic cleaner do you leave the caps on?

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## COA Tracks

Clouds4Days said:


> @COA Tracks
> Diy is the way to go.
> I been vaping commercial juice for a month now and it hits the pockets heavy at R300 a week. That's R1200 a month. You can basically buy a new mod every month at that price.
> I got my diy kit this Friday that just passed and it's the best choice I made.
> It cost me R550 but I got 500ml pg, 500ml vg, 100ml nic and 9 concentrations from vapeowave.
> I've mixed 5 different juices 3 X 15ml and 2 X 30 ml bottles and I still got loads of ingredients to mix more.
> Diy definitely the way to go.


Hey mate, thanks for your comment. Snap, I bought my stuff at the same place yesterday morning, VapeOwave, 5 mins from my place on the bike. I made 2 X 100 ml batches using the calculator app the lady there suggested. I am leaving those to steep. But yes, I agree with you on the cost saver and is exactly why I am going that route. Thumbs up.

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## shaunnadan

Clouds4Days said:


> @shaunnadan
> When you put the bottles in the ultrasonic cleaner do you leave the caps on?



i use an open mason jar. once im done blitzing it then i transfer to bottles. 

i usually fill the ultrasonic like 80% so its just above the level of juice in the jar.

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## COA Tracks

shaunnadan said:


> most of my juices i steep the old fashioned way (leave them alone for a few weeks)
> 
> but when im in a hurry :
> 
> coffee frother on the end of a cordless drill. mix that up till its semi froth
> then 10min in the ultrasonic
> 
> repeat about 3 times and then taste it


Wait...what...ultrasonic?


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## Clouds4Days

COA Tracks said:


> Hey mate, thanks for your comment. Snap, I bought my stuff at the same place yesterday morning, VapeOwave,


Nice one. I stay in Jhb south but not a bad drive to them.
If you hit any nice recipes give me a shout out.
I made small batches of my own recipes.
Out of the 5 mixes I made 3 look promising but 2 of them I think are gonna be real kak. Hahaha trial and error.

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## Clouds4Days

shaunnadan said:


> i use an open mason jar. once im done blitzing it then i transfer to bottles.


When I mixed my own juice I mixed them directly into their little bottles. Once all ingredients inside I shook them up like a mad man and now left them on shelf with caps off.

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## shaunnadan

COA Tracks said:


> Wait...what...ultrasonic?



an ultrasonic cleaner 

its a device with a tub that you fill with water and a cleaning agent and it cleans things with ultrasonic pulses. 

so when your tank is dirty you just take it apart and throw it in the tank for a few min and afterwards its squeeky clean !

also can speed up steeping juices added to the fact that they can heat up the water.

http://goptics.co.za/?page_id=2406

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## shaunnadan

Clouds4Days said:


> When I mixed my own juice I mixed them directly into their little bottles. Once all ingredients inside I shook them up like a mad man and now left them on shelf with caps off.



i always mix in the mason jars and then store them for steeping. when i need a bottle then i decant it

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## COA Tracks

Clouds4Days said:


> Nice one. I stay in Jhb south but not a bad drive to them.
> If you hit any nice recipes give me a shout out.
> I made small batches of my own recipes.
> Out of the 5 mixes I made 3 look promising but 2 of them I think are gonna be real kak. Hahaha trial and error.


Sjeez mate, that's some distance. Sure thing, I am just getting started, but as soon as I have a winner I will gladly share. I made a Raspberry and Bleuberry batch, those are the ones I am leaving to steep. I'll try them out next week Saturday and will no doubt provide feedback. I met a chap in the shop who by the sounds of it has become a bit of an expert at making his own liquids. Once he hooks up with me on Facebook I will ask him to provide tips and tricks....stay tuned.

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## Clouds4Days

shaunnadan said:


> i always mix in the mason jars and then store them for steeping. when i need a bottle then i decant it


Awesome, need to give West pack a visit this week ☺


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## COA Tracks

shaunnadan said:


> an ultrasonic cleaner
> 
> its a device with a tub that you fill with water and a cleaning agent and it cleans things with ultrasonic pulses.
> 
> so when your tank is dirty you just take it apart and throw it in the tank for a few min and afterwards its squeeky clean !
> 
> also can speed up steeping juices added to the fact that they can heat up the water.
> 
> http://goptics.co.za/?page_id=2406


Man...the cost of this is starting to escalate at an alarming rate. That device sounds like a bit of a must have...


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## COA Tracks

Clouds4Days said:


> When I mixed my own juice I mixed them directly into their little bottles. Once all ingredients inside I shook them up like a mad man and now left them on shelf with caps off.


Caps off? Mine are closed...in a closed closet...in the dark...


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## shaunnadan

Clouds4Days said:


> Awesome, need to give West pack a visit this week ☺



westpack is diy heaven!!!

stock up on syringes, all sorts of bottles, mason jars, measuring cylinders, measuring containers... walk out with 2 packets and less than R100 lighter

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## COA Tracks

shaunnadan said:


> westpack is diy heaven!!!
> 
> stock up on syringes, all sorts of bottles, mason jars, measuring cylinders, measuring containers... walk out with 2 packets and less than R100 lighter


Westpack hey...I am catching on. I see that you are in my nick of the woods. I take it that Westpack is out here somewhere then...?


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## shaunnadan

COA Tracks said:


> Man...the cost of this is starting to escalate at an alarming rate. That device sounds like a bit of a must have...



i definitely consider this an investment . especially for cleaning up vape gear if your not steeping juices in it.

you can find some cheaper ones online. look for the one that does 50w for 30min. that my portable ultrasonic that i keep.

yes... i have a portable ultrasonic 

perhaps i could also throw you budget away by suggesting a stirring plate with a magnetic bead

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## Clouds4Days

COA Tracks said:


> Man...the cost of this is starting to escalate at an alarming rate. That device sounds like a bit of a must have...





COA Tracks said:


> Caps off? Mine are closed...in a closed closet...in the dark.


Ultrasonic is not a must. I read if you also use a hot water bottle it works too, but bottle or jar must be open cause it's got something to do with evaporation aparently. I got a nice thread on this forum I will share with you that's taught me a few things.


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## shaunnadan

COA Tracks said:


> Westpack hey...I am catching on. I see that you are in my nick of the woods. I take it that Westpack is out here somewhere then...?



they have stores all over but i like the one on beyers naude the most

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## Clouds4Days

@COA Tracks 
www.ecigssa.co.za/diy-your-first-time.t7324/

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## COA Tracks

People, thanks for all the tips and advise. I am signing off now as I have an early start again tomorrow. Catch up soon again.


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## Silver

Hi @COA Tracks 

Welcome to the forum and congrats in your vaping

I am trying to understand your situation better so I can offer you some advice

I have a question, what is the PG/VG ratio of the so called "thinner" juice you talk about?
And have you tried it in your Subox kit?
Are you using a commercial coil or a rebuildable?

I vape 50/50 PG/VG in my Subtank Mini (the atty of the Subox kit) all the time and it works fine.

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## Clouds4Days

shaunnadan said:


> they have stores all over but i like the one on beyers naude the most


My closest branch is Alberton. Never gone to the one on Beyers.

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## COA Tracks

shaunnadan said:


> i definitely consider this an investment . especially for cleaning up vape gear if your not steeping juices in it.
> 
> you can find some cheaper ones online. look for the one that does 50w for 30min. that my portable ultrasonic that i keep.
> 
> yes... i have a portable ultrasonic
> 
> perhaps i could also throw you budget away by suggesting a stirring plate with a magnetic bead



Dude...enough now


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## shaunnadan

Clouds4Days said:


> My closest branch is Alberton. Never gone to the one on Beyers.



i see that one when i get to the highway but could never for the life of me work out where the entrance was !

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## shaunnadan

COA Tracks said:


> Dude...enough now



what i really want is this 



if not just for the coolness factor

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## COA Tracks

Silver said:


> Hi @COA Tracks
> 
> Welcome to the forum and congrats in your vaping
> 
> I am trying to understand your situation better so I can offer you some advice
> 
> I have a question, what is the PG/VG ratio of the so called "thinner" juice you talk about?
> And have you tried it in your Subox kit?
> Are you using a commercial coil or a rebuildable?
> 
> I vape 50/50 PG/VG in my Subtank Mini (the atty of the Subox kit) all the time and it works fine.


Hey @Silver, no idea mate. It is a brand called Liqua (apparently Italian) which I used all the time for my Twisp, and always bought from the Chinese retailers out here in Centurion (R30 for 30ml). They do not give the ratio on the label, only the ingredients. But compared to the liquid I bought with the Subox a week ago, it is significantly thinner, much more flowing than the almost syrup like stuff I have now. I am using the coil that came stock with the kit.


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## COA Tracks

shaunnadan said:


> what i really want is this
> 
> 
> 
> if not just for the coolness factor



Sjeez...probably going to have to get a white coat and some goggles as well with that...not to mention the CSIR ID card...


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## shaunnadan

COA Tracks said:


> Sjeez...probably going to have to get a white coat and some goggles as well with that...not to mention the CSIR ID card...



i used to work for CSIR !!! but never had a labcoat job

its actually used to make bubble-tea


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## Neal

COA Tracks said:


> Hey @Silver, no idea mate. It is a brand called Liqua (apparently Italian) which I used all the time for my Twisp, and always bought from the Chinese retailers out here in Centurion (R30 for 30ml). They do not give the ratio on the label, only the ingredients. But compared to the liquid I bought with the Subox a week ago, it is significantly thinner, much more flowing than the almost syrup like stuff I have now. I am using the coil that came stock with the kit.



Brother , be careful of that stuff. There is a good chance it is a dodgy knock off of the original Liqua and I suggest you keep away from it. At R30 per 30ml it may seem like a good deal but you have no idea what is in there. Rather spend a little more on some decent liquid from local vendors. I have tried the Liqua you are talking about and my estimation (I am no expert) would be that the ratio would be around 70 - 80pg in those liquids. Please proceed with caution.


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## Silver

+1 on what @Neal said above

@COA Tracks , the original authentic Liqua which you can buy from a reputable vendor (like Vapour Mountain or eCiggies on this forum) is about 70% PG if memory serves me correctly. So it is quite a thin juice and depending on your wicking in a rebuildable it may lead to some leaking. But i doubt it would destroy your mod. That said, i didnt find much joy with the Liqua juices. One or two were okay but i found them generally aimed at low power Clearo devices, not rebuildables at higher power.

If you had a 70% PG mix in a 30ml bottle and wanted to bring it up to say 50% VG or said differently, bring the PG down to 50% you would add *12ml of VG. *

Here is the formula for you




where

x = the quantity of VG you need to add.
The 0.3 is the VG ratio (30%) in the existing liquid and
the 30 is the amount of the original liquid...
The 0.5 is the desired VG target (50%)

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## Silver

Oops, i made a small mistake in the formula above @COA Tracks 
Standby while I correct it and make a change
Lol


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## Silver

Silver said:


> Oops, i made a small mistake in the formula above @COA Tracks
> Standby while I correct it and make a change
> Lol



Have made the change to the formula picture. 
The answer is 12ml of VG, not 10 as I had it before.
In my haste when solving for x , I incorrectly thought 30*(0.3) was 10, but its actually 9. 
What a goose I am

Anyway, dont worry, i have made the change and its all right now. Hope it helps


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## Blu_Marlin

Silver said:


> Have made the change to the formula picture.
> The answer is 12ml of VG, not 10 as I had it before.
> In my haste when solving for x , I incorrectly thought 30*(0.3) was 10, but its actually 9.
> What a goose I am
> 
> Anyway, dont worry, i have made the change and its all right now. Hope it helps


HiHo @Silver agreed. You would need 12ml of VG to bring the ratio to 50/50.
Here's another way to look at it: 

30ml 30VG/70PG (30VG = 30%VG and 70PG = 70%PG) as per the existing liquid.

VG in 30ml is 9ml (30ml X 30% = 9ml) from above.

PG in 30ml is 30ml - 9ml (VG from above) = 21ml PG.

To get 50/50 both parts must be the same volume (ml)

To get VG ratio to 21ml (PG from above) you need to add 12ml of VG to the exsisting mixture (that already has 9ml of VG) and you will have 42ml total volume of e-liquid with 21ml PG and 21ml VG.

@COA Tracks from my travels I`ve deduced that we get ripped a new one for a lot of things here in SA, clothes, hardware, electronics (not talking about vape gear) etc. Having said that, R30 for 30ml of LIQUA e-liquid, for me, would set off all sorts of alarm bells. 

Example: On Fasttech the authentic Liqua e-liquid, 30ml, goes for between $4.50 and $5.50. Converting that to Rands using the current exchange rate 1$=R16) is roughly between R72 and R88. Lets say the supplier bought it awhile back (July 2015 $1 = R12.20) that would be between R55 and R67. Once you add in profit margins etc, you can see our reason for concern.

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## shaunnadan

COA Tracks said:


> Hey @Silver, no idea mate. It is a brand called Liqua (apparently Italian) which I used all the time for my Twisp, and always bought from the Chinese retailers out here in Centurion (R30 for 30ml). They do not give the ratio on the label, only the ingredients. But compared to the liquid I bought with the Subox a week ago, it is significantly thinner, much more flowing than the almost syrup like stuff I have now. I am using the coil that came stock with the kit.



not to cause any alarms but i would stay away from those juices. i had a horrible experience that resulted in some painful mouth sores and blisters.

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