# Authentic Batteries?



## PsyCLown

Hey all,

So my friends and I purchased some batteries but as soon as I opened the package I was like "Oh snap!" as I suspect they might be fake as all other batteries I have seen and purchased came in different packaging.

The site states they are genuine batteries, so perhaps someone here can help me out.
It was Samsung 30Q batteries and Sony VTC4's.

Here are some pictures I took:





Below I tried to take a picture of some text beneath the wrapper but it is a bit tricky.






The insulators by the positive side also feel a bit flimsy but I do not have any other batteries with me to check and see whether they are the same or not.

Any advice? They seem legit? I have an Opus BT C3100 charger which I can use to check the internal resistance and do a discharge / charge to check the capacity although not sure how accurate these tests will be and not sure how I can check the amp draw and so forth.

I do not want to mentioned where I purchased these from just yet as I have not spoken to them and am not even sure whether they are authentic or not.

Thanks


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## Warlock

Hi @PsyCLown Weigh them, they should come in at 45 g to 47 g. I have a fake UltraFire and it weighs 26 g.

Reactions: Like 1


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## PsyCLown

Warlock said:


> Hi @PsyCLown Weigh them, they should come in at 45 mg to 47 mg. I have a fake UltraFire and it weighs 26 mg.


Samsung weighs 46g and the Sony 47g.


What concerned me most was the boxes as all other batteries I have purchased came in plain white boxes. No print or text on them.

If it were not for the boxes I'd have assumed they were authentic. The boxes is what got me going initially.


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## Warlock

Thats perfect @PsyCLown , soz I mislead you with the mg, it must be grams


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## RichJB

If originals come in plain white boxes, it's unlikely that a counterfeiter/rewrapper will go to the extra expense of printing coloured and branded boxes. If anything, I'd say that's a good sign of authenticity.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## PsyCLown

Warlock said:


> Thats perfect @PsyCLown , soz I mislead you with the mg, it must be grams



I figured as much, I knew it couldn't have been mg. Would be lovely if batteries were that light! haha



RichJB said:


> If originals come in plain white boxes, it's unlikely that a counterfeiter/rewrapper will go to the extra expense of printing coloured and branded boxes. If anything, I'd say that's a good sign of authenticity.


Hmm... Then why do authentics come in plain white boxes in SA and on other international websites they look as if they come in plain white boxes too.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Warlock

Hmm... Then why do authentics come in plain white boxes in SA and on other international websites they look as if they come in plain white boxes too.[/QUOTE]

It may be something to do with bulk orders... No need for advertising.


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## RichJB

Who knows, it could just be a packaging thing with batts that were maybe meant for another industry that also uses 18650s or a country where packaging requirements are different. It just doesn't make sense to me that if original batts are normally marketed in plain unbranded white boxes, counterfeiters would go to the trouble of having more expensive colour printed boxes made up.

Reactions: Like 1


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## PsyCLown

Well I will try test them out when I get home and see whats up.
Run them in a mod and see how they perform as well as pop some in my battery charger and do a capacity test I guess.


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## Effjh

Bought many authentic batteries locally that came in same boxes as your Samsung. Can't speak for the Sony, but would guess it's fine too.

Reactions: Thanks 1


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## PsyCLown

So compared the 30Q to my known authentic one at home and looks identical.

Popped them into the charger and will see tomorrow perhaps what their charge capacity is however I now think they are indeed genuine.


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## KB_314

PsyCLown said:


> Hey all,
> 
> So my friends and I purchased some batteries but as soon as I opened the package I was like "Oh snap!" as I suspect they might be fake as all other batteries I have seen and purchased came in different packaging.
> 
> The site states they are genuine batteries, so perhaps someone here can help me out.
> It was Samsung 30Q batteries and Sony VTC4's.
> 
> Here are some pictures I took:
> 
> View attachment 68428
> View attachment 68429
> View attachment 68430
> 
> Below I tried to take a picture of some text beneath the wrapper but it is a bit tricky.
> 
> View attachment 68431
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The insulators by the positive side also feel a bit flimsy but I do not have any other batteries with me to check and see whether they are the same or not.
> 
> Any advice? They seem legit? I have an Opus BT C3100 charger which I can use to check the internal resistance and do a discharge / charge to check the capacity although not sure how accurate these tests will be and not sure how I can check the amp draw and so forth.
> 
> I do not want to mentioned where I purchased these from just yet as I have not spoken to them and am not even sure whether they are authentic or not.
> 
> Thanks


I'm not sure you can tell by the box - but for what it's worth, I purchased a 30Q last week from a very popular vendor - it came in a plain pink box, and to my memory all that was on the box was "30Q". 
+-6 months ago, I bought 30Q's from another well known vendor and those came in plain white boxes. To me, the batteries are performing as they should be and I don't suspect any are fakes. The print on mine state the same as yours, but more feint. Other than that, they look the same.


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## Moosa86

Regarding the print under the wrap it might be this


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## SAVaper

I would not know the difference and would just have to trust the vendor to sell me authentic product.


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## Silver

Hi @PsyCLown
Cant advise you on your batteries but i can say that I have noticed the same battery purchased at different times from different reputable vendors having different packaging.

I think the main issue with batteries is to purchase high quality ones from a reputable vendor.
It is highly unlikely that a reputable vendor will knowingly sell fakes
If the batteries do turn out to be fake then usually the forum will be filled with comments and posts and the vendor will usually rectify the situation and make it up to the clients.

Obviously, using a fake battery until the situation gets rectified is not desirable and I suppose that is difficult to avoid. But the sooner one knows the better.

Bottom line - buy batteries from a reputable vendor that you trust.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## PsyCLown

The batteries are all good! So I am happy, I had just never seen different packaging before.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Warlock

Morning all 
Can someone please weigh an authentic 26650 battery for me. I have one and it comes in at 86.69 grams.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## RichJB

I don't have one but the tests I've read of Efest purple 26650s states the mass as being 86.5g.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Rob Fisher

87.87g Brill Power
93.12g eFest
91.07g iJoy

Reactions: Like 1


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## Warlock

Thank you @Rob Fisher the pic’s helped me a lot.

I don’t recommend what I’m doing so please don’t “do this at home”.

I can’t help myself when it comes to experimenting.

I found this battery. The positive looks more like your Efest than the other two (proud with large venting slots). The weight is correct. I measured the voltage at 3.8 volts. I don’t know if the battery was fully charged when I got it, they seldom are.

I put a test load on it with a 0.47 ohm resistance. This pulled at first 8 Amps but then dropped to 6 Amps as the voltage dropped.

This load was applied continuously until the battery’s voltage dropped to 2.5 volts. I monitored the battery temperature but there was no heating.

I now have the battery on charge and will see how many mAh the charger pumps into it before it is full.

I think the battery is fake, so therefore the interesting thing here is that the counterfeiters are finding ways to ballast the batteries to bring them up to the correct weight.

The battery has no markings on it other than claiming 6800mAh (first clue to iffy status)
Will give results of the charging as it progresses


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## Warlock

Ok so now what?
The "fake" 26650 battery took just under 5 hours to charge.
The charger put 2846mAh into the battery before it decided that battery was full.

So I scoffed at this because an authentic claims anything from 4200mAh to 5200mAh and they costs between R190 to R250.

So we are buying a storage facility for power and if best case scenario is R190.00 for 5200mAh that cost is about 27mAh per Rand.

The battery I bought today cost R30 vat inc. So 2846mAh tested for R30. That is 94mAh per Rand.

A LG 18650 promises 15mAh per Rand.

Food for thought?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Spydro

Silver said:


> Hi @PsyCLown
> Cant advise you on your batteries but i can say that I have noticed the same battery purchased at different times from different reputable vendors having different packaging.
> 
> I think the main issue with batteries is to purchase high quality ones from a reputable vendor.
> It is highly unlikely that a reputable vendor will knowingly sell fakes
> If the batteries do turn out to be fake then usually the forum will be filled with comments and posts and the vendor will usually rectify the situation and make it up to the clients.
> 
> Obviously, using a fake battery until the situation gets rectified is not desirable and I suppose that is difficult to avoid. But the sooner one knows the better.
> 
> Bottom line - buy batteries from a reputable vendor that you trust.



And therein lies the most useful possible answer... only buy batts from a vendor that you yourself trust.

I learned early on in vaping some 3.5 years ago to do the work myself to be sure that any gear I bought was authentic, and to not shop for price. It took lots of research and following up leads to determine who bought direct and who bought their stock from halfway houses where fake batts abound. That done I picked up the phone, called and talked to the owners of those vendors still on my list of possibles, then made an informed decision whether I trusted them or not. All of my batts come from one of two vendors that I trust without question will only sell me authentic batts. So I believe all of my 7-8 dozen batts are authentic.

It's in some ways easier now with some folks who have stepped up and thoroughly tested most batts that come along, and published their findings and how to detect fakes (if possible). But it's also harder in that far more unsavory types are making/rebranding and selling fakes. A few bucks more is actually a huge savings when you get the real deal instead of a fake when so may sell gear that they do or do not know if they are fakes.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Silver

Warlock said:


> Ok so now what?
> The "fake" 26650 battery took just under 5 hours to charge.
> The charger put 2846mAh into the battery before it decided that battery was full.
> 
> So I scoffed at this because an authentic claims anything from 4200mAh to 5200mAh and they costs between R190 to R250.
> 
> So we are buying a storage facility for power and if best case scenario is R190.00 for 5200mAh that cost is about 27mAh per Rand.
> 
> The battery I bought today cost R30 vat inc. So 2846mAh tested for R30. That is 94mAh per Rand.
> 
> A LG 18650 promises 15mAh per Rand.
> 
> Food for thought?
> View attachment 71830



Very interesting @Warlock 
So if i understand you correctly, you are saying the cheapie battery stores power from a capaity point of view more cheaply per mah unit?

If that is what you are saying, then this may be a good deal.
But only if it can supply the amp draw one needs and if it performs well over time.
My suspicion would be that it wont perform well even if it stores power cheaply. 
I may be wrong though

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Warlock

The point I was trying to get across is that this particular fake battery is giving you 3 times the value in storage capacity per monetary unit spent.

A Brillipower 26650 cost R250.0 and promises 4500mAh. That is R1.00 for every 18mAh of capacity promised.

The Fake 26650 cost R30.00 and actually gave 2846mAh. That is R1.00 for every 94.87mAh of capacity delivered.

So why are we getting such poor value for our money when buying authentic batteries.


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## Warlock

I wish I had a Mod that I could use this battery on...
I'm going to stick a thermocouple on it and run it flat again, but this time at 15Amps...see it it can take it.


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## Warlock

Lol just struck me, I can buy 8 of these “Fakes” for the cost of one Brillipower 26650.


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## Silver

Warlock said:


> The point I was trying to get across is that this particular fake battery is giving you 3 times the value in storage capacity per monetary unit spent.
> 
> A Brillipower 26650 cost R250.0 and promises 4500mAh. That is R1.00 for every 18mAh of capacity promised.
> 
> The Fake 26650 cost R30.00 and actually gave 2846mAh. That is R1.00 for every 94.87mAh of capacity delivered.
> 
> So why are we getting such poor value for our money when buying authentic batteries.



I agree fully!

But the point I was trying to make was how do we know it can deliver that power effectively and consistently over time. It may be cheaper but if it cant deliver or perform then its a waste.

So maybe the cost of the fake per unit of storage capacity is an eye blind and it may not be able to deliver?


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## Warlock

I know I’m playing devil’s advocate here. Everything is pure speculation because I cannot test it in a working environment. I vape at 20W. With a 0.6 coil and the battery at 4 volts average I will only draw 5 amps. The battery has already proved that it can drain itself supplying 8 amps continually without heating up. But how many recharging cycles will it manage. If the Brillipower can manage 400 recharges then this one has only to manage 50 recharges to break even. Anything better will be a win.

Anyway this is all just ifs and buts... was a fun exercise seeing just what this “fake” could deliver.


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## Silver

Warlock said:


> I know I’m playing devil’s advocate here. Everything is pure speculation because I cannot test it in a working environment. I vape at 20W. With a 0.6 coil and the battery at 4 volts average I will only draw 5 amps. The battery has already proved that it can drain itself supplying 8 amps continually without heating up. But how many recharging cycles will it manage. If the Brillipower can manage 400 recharges then this one has only to manage 50 recharges to break even. Anything better will be a win.
> 
> Anyway this is all just ifs and buts... was a fun exercise seeing just what this “fake” could deliver.



If it works for you in your application then great @Warlock 

The reason i am harping on about this is that if others get the same idea it wont be long before we find these "cheapie fakes" making their way into a noisy cricket and then we might start seeing a problem.

Some folk wont know or care about amp limits etc (but just look to save on costs) 

Let it be noted that anyone trying to use fake batteries with unknown limitations have been warned

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Clouds4Days

I will just leave this here for those in attemt to save a few hunderd rand at the expense of much more (maybe) later on.


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## Soutie

Warlock said:


> So why are we getting such poor value for our money when buying authentic batteries.



It problably has something to do with build quality and materials used in the build process. Hell im no expert on batteries but I take pause before I put China mall batteries in my tv's remote as I have seen these leak quicker than a normal battery. It isn't just about holding charge but also about the quality of materials holding your catalyst in the battery where it belongs.

That and R&D costs a little bit of money too


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