# DIY Recipe Ethics...?



## Rude Rudi (6/7/18)

I was at my local Vape King today and whilst the kind chap installed me new coils, I spotted a bottle of DIY juice on the counter. I asked the chap who's it is and he kindly showed me the bottle. 
The hand written label said Morning Glory, 70/30 3mg nic, manufactured date, etc. 

As Morning Glory is my recipe I was rather intrigued to find out what this version could possibly be. 
A quick sniff and lick and I could immediately identify this as being my recipe. As it happened, I was busy vaping Morning Glory and proceeded to show my bottle to the chap for comparison. I then showed them my recipe as listed on ATF and they were dumbfounded.

They explained that someone called Francois brought it for one of the guys there to "test". He does not sell it but I know how these things work... It may be that Francois simply gave it to his buddy to try BUT I smell a rat...

My recipe is not protected and I publish them as part of my passion. I do however have a problem with someone potentially flogging it to a national chain... 

Your views?

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 5


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## Raindance (6/7/18)

Somebody selling what you gave to everyone as a gift. My emotions are to be pissed off. The logic says the opposite though. Sometimes I hate logic.

Regards

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 3


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## Andre (6/7/18)

I doubt that they will call it by your recipe's name if selling commercially was the intention. 

In principle, it will not bother me in the least. Once I publish a recipe it is in the public domain and I have not further control.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 4


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## BumbleBee (6/7/18)

Andre said:


> I doubt that they will call it by your recipe's name if selling commercially was the intention.
> 
> In principle, it will not bother me in the least. Once I publish a recipe it is in the public domain and I have not further control.


It happens more often than you think, there are countless mixers out there just bumming recipes of ELR etc and slapping their own labels on it, sometimes the name doesn't even get changed.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Mr. B (6/7/18)

On one hand: it's a d*ck move to copy someone else's recipe and sell it commercially. Making money off of someone else's hard work/ intellectual property is theft.

On the other hand: how are we ever going to regulate this or prevent this? There will always be shady people looking to make a quick buck off someone else's hard work so once your recipe is published it's out there for anyone to see and do with as they please. The only logical solution would be to not publish recipes anymore but that would deprive the other good hearted diy vapers out there from your creation that you want to share. One of the things I like about this community is how helpful and friendly everyone is. People give advice; share recipes with like minded diyers and PIF things with no expectation of anything in return. If you publish recipes with altruistic intentions are you going to allow that to be taken away by a few thieving a-holes?

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 3


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## Rude Rudi (6/7/18)

Yes, it’s a tricky one. 

I understand the pro’s and con’s completely. If it’s for mate, go wild. If it’s for profit, no-go. 

As per the other posts, these things are near impossible to regulate. The OP was to get the thoughts from others and gauge the view on the subject. I imagine it’s a bit like the illicit cigarette trade - it will never cease - others will always profit off others whether they are willing participants or not.




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Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 3


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## ARYANTO (6/7/18)

BumbleBee said:


> It happens more often than you think, there are countless mixers out there just bumming recipes of ELR etc and slapping their own labels on it, sometimes the name doesn't even get changed.



That will annoy the crap out of me - there must be something on the bottle stating : original recipe by BumbleBee or similar ?

Reactions: Like 3


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## method1 (6/7/18)

I feel your pain, as this has happened to me more than once - I’m sure everyone is aware of the details - however I have to ask, wasn’t morning glory itself derived from dodgerfog’s “French cafe” ?

Authorship is definitely a tricky subject in this game - ultimately I decided that the only way to protect recipes is to not publish them, anything I make public I expect will be exploited one way or another.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 3


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## BumbleBee (6/7/18)

ARYANTO said:


> That will annoy the crap out of me - there must be something on the bottle stating : original recipe by BumbleBee or similar ?


That is how it should be at the very least. Asking for permission to use the recipe for commercial use will usually involve money changing hands. It seems ethics aren't for everyone.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 3 | Optimistic 1


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## Rude Rudi (6/7/18)

method1 said:


> I feel your pain, as this has happened to me more than once - I’m sure everyone is aware of the details - however I have to ask, wasn’t morning glory itself derived from dodgerfog’s “French cafe” ?
> 
> Authorship is definitely a tricky subject in this game - ultimately I decided that the only way to protect recipes is to not publish them, anything I make public I expect will be exploited one way or another.



Indeed. The trial version credited the DodgerFog33 but the development and tweaks took it in a direction which was very different from the OG, so I decided to remove the tag.

I see your point though - a recipe derived form a recipe and so it spirals...




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Reactions: Like 4


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## ARYANTO (6/7/18)

BumbleBee said:


> That is how it should be at the very least. Asking for permission to use the recipe for commercial use will usually involve money changing hands. It seems ethics aren't for everyone.


This is from : All the flavors.com
This recipe is the property of xxxxxxx and released under the All The Flavors Public Domain license. You may not copy, derive or commercialize this recipe without following the terms of this license or the explicit permission of the creator.
So can't they read /understand the rules or are they plain out to grab a quick buck ?

Reactions: Like 4


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## BubiSparks (7/7/18)

If the maker of the juice sample intends to sell his ripped off brew to the likes of Vape King, one would expect the vendor to check them out first, no? I'm sure that mixers with ethics like this would have a clean room and mix under lab conditions.... NOT!

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 1


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## Room Fogger (7/7/18)

Good morning to all on this thread, sincere apologies to especially you @Rude Rudi , I am the Francois being referred to. I gave this bottle that I mixed to someone that has become a good friend to me, as most vape shop staff become like family members to us all, and the fact that he works for a vape shop does not automatically mean that the intention is to flog it to them. He actually tasted Solus and seriously liked it so I said I would bring him a bottle to enjoy. Unfortunately I could not mix it up in time and decided to gift a bottle of Morning Glory instead as I think it is the better recipy, I actually gave him some Rodeo as well @method1, as he is looking for an in your face tobacco, and I told him your Rodeo is the best imo. The fact that the bottles are marked with the juice name you gave it think should be self explanatory regarding my intentions.

Under no circumstances will I sell a diy juice to anyone as I am not the owner of the recipy and can therefore not derive any financial benefit from it, in any way, nor am I a business. I have also never claimed ownership of any recipy I have mixed diy, except for the one or two I am still working on, with a long way to go still, and may have given someone a taste. I have mixed and given juice away before for people wanting to try a profile so that they do not end up with a bunch of concentrates that they will never use, like I have now, or to get rid of profiles that were not for me, if they wanted it, instead of dumping it down a drain.

Mixing for oneself includes labeling what’s in the bottle, and the nic strength and ratio, as well as mix date for steeping purposes, as I do higher nic and different ratios for DL and MTL. So, if I have offended you, or anyone else in any way, apologies again. Maybe next time I will include the full disclaimer on the bottle under a extra label if I ever share a juice again, at least that way my intentions regarding the gifting of the juice and the ownership of the recipy is clear. I thoroughly enjoy diy and get exited when someone else does as well, or if they are wanting to start, and extremely exited when the master mixers like yourself and a lot of other mixers on the forum share a recipy with us to enjoy, be it their own creation or a recipy they found on the internet. I also try and work as “clean” as possible when mixing, including the Milton route for everything being used.

Thank you again for sharing the recipies, and if you or anyone else need any more clarity please feel free to PM me at any time, I will also happily share my phone number with you or anyone else should you wish to contact me. 

Kind regards
Francois du Plessis

Reactions: Like 9 | Winner 17


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## Stosta (7/7/18)

Room Fogger said:


> Good morning to all on this thread, sincere apologies to especially you @Rude Rudi , I am the Francois being referred to. I gave this bottle that I mixed to someone that has become a good friend to me, as most vape shop staff become like family members to us all, and the fact that he works for a vape shop does not automatically mean that the intention is to flog it to them. He actually tasted Solus and seriously liked it so I said I would bring him a bottle to enjoy. Unfortunately I could not mix it up in time and decided to gift a bottle of Morning Glory instead as I think it is the better recipy, I actually gave him some Rodeo as well @method1, as he is looking for an in your face tobacco, and I told him your Rodeo is the best imo. The fact that the bottles are marked with the juice name you gave it think should be self explanatory regarding my intentions.
> 
> Under no circumstances will I sell a diy juice to anyone as I am not the owner of the recipy and can therefore not derive any financial benefit from it, in any way, nor am I a business. I have also never claimed ownership of any recipy I have mixed diy, except for the one or two I am still working on, with a long way to go still, and may have given someone a taste. I have mixed and given juice away before for people wanting to try a profile so that they do not end up with a bunch of concentrates that they will never use, like I have now, or to get rid of profiles that were not for me, if they wanted it, instead of dumping it down a drain.
> 
> ...


I'm pretty sure it will put a huge smile on @Rude Rudi 's face to find out that it was you!

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 2


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## Humbolt (7/7/18)

Well this turned out well. Nicely done for sharing your intentions @Room Fogger. It's really cool that we have such esteemed mixeoligists on this forum who share their creations with us and it would be a shame if something with no malicious intent were to hinder that in any way.

Reactions: Like 5 | Agree 3


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## BumbleBee (7/7/18)

@Room Fogger you're one of the good ones, the world needs more people like you man

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 5


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## Room Fogger (7/7/18)

Thanks guys, I’m just a normal ordinary guy who loves vaping and enjoying the mixing of absolutely wonderful creations to put a smile on anyone’s dial. I agree 100% with @Humbolt , There was no malicious intent whatsoever from my side, just sharing the love. It would take only one of these misunderstandings to sink the boat for all of us. If I had had the time to mix he would have seen a bottle of Solus. Would love to be able to create something worthwhile to share, but untill my senses don’t improve it’s a dream that I’ll keep on chasing. 

All that I can say is vape on, many happy clouds to all.

Reactions: Like 6 | Winner 4


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## Rude Rudi (7/7/18)

@Room Fogger big ups for 'owning up'. It is, as others mentioned, a great relief to hear your side of the story.

Thanks for the kind words and explanation - most people would have shied away and not 'come forward' in the manner which you have. 

Happy for you to mix and share at your hearts content!

To coin a phrase, 'Give that man a Bells!'

Reactions: Like 11 | Winner 5


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## Room Fogger (7/7/18)

Rude Rudi said:


> @Room Fogger big ups for 'owning up'. It is, as others mentioned, a great relief to hear your side of the story.
> 
> Thanks for the kind words and explanation - most people would have shied away and not 'come forward' in the manner which you have.
> 
> ...


Thanks Meneer, I believe that honesty is the best policy. I can honestly believe that a lot of mixing masters get ripped off, we had one on the site not to long ago that found his juice being marketed in Canada, under the same name. However, You keep on publishing and I will keep on mixing, your recipies are absolutely amazing, Icee Orange steeping!

I must say that it’s always easy to step up if you have nothing to hide, and that is how I try to live life, what you do comes back tenfold, good and bad. Also nice to hear that I have good taste in shopping at the same vape shop as you,  will maybe meet up there at some stage I’m sure. Have a great weekend and thanks for your kind words and understanding.

Reactions: Like 7 | Winner 2


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## Humbolt (7/7/18)

OK now kiss

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 1 | Funny 9


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## Room Fogger (7/7/18)

Humbolt said:


> OK now kiss


Have to wax my mustache first and comb my beard!

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 8


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## Humbolt (7/7/18)

Room Fogger said:


> Have to wax my mustache first and comb my beard!


I'll just imagine you're referring to things above your waistline instead of below...

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 6


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## Room Fogger (7/7/18)

Humbolt said:


> I'll just imagine you're referring to things above your waistline instead of below...


Always at eye height, and I’m quite a tall fellow

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 6


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## Raindance (7/7/18)

Pictures or it did not happen!

Regards

Reactions: Like 2


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## Room Fogger (8/7/18)

Still busy growing the mustache and waiting for some love for it , so it will have to wait a while longer!


I’m not as lucky @Steyn777 or @JsPLAYn to have a facial wonderland. But then they both have had a head start in this department!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Steyn777 (9/7/18)

Room Fogger said:


> Still busy growing the mustache and waiting for some love for it , so it will have to wait a while longer!
> View attachment 138039
> 
> I’m not as lucky @Steyn777 or @JsPLAYn to have a facial wonderland. But then they both have had a head start in this department!


Seeing that I'm bald, headstart might not be the correct choice of word....lol.
And luck has no play here, this took a lot of work, a lot of time, a lot of oil, a lot of brushing and grooming...damn I love it! To be successful when it comes to a mustache takes but 1 thing: Own It!! The love will follow.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Winner 3


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## fbb1964 (17/10/20)

Great topic my 2 cents on this if I may. Until a few months ago I only vaped commercial juice from overseas for over 3 years. Had no diy intention just bought nic juice from overseas. Found this forum learned heaps and started diy and I really enjoy it. I'm let's just say a bit pedantic about hygiene I won't just buy juice unless I know exactly where it comes from. Hence this reply.

I've kind of worked out there are 4 types of juice makers. The big commercial juice makers, the smaller real innovative independent juice makers that comes up with great new juices to sell. Puts lots of time and effort into experimenting but still for commercial gain. All good no dramas. Then you get us the diy making our own juice sharing and learning from each other as we go along. Not for commercial gain and always looking for that holy grail of juice we haven't found yet. Still good no dramas. Great fun and a hobby almost by itself.

And then you get the what I call the wanna be if they could be garage scientists for commercial gain only. Hufflepuff etc.. And we get lots of them here in AU too. They will work from mostly diy recipes not remotely their own, charge a fortune exploiting the vapers not knowing better or just starting out. Selling even single flavor mixes that actually costs as cheap as chips for a huge profit. And my biggest problem with them is nobody knows how hygienic they mix. And these do a lot of damage to the vaping industry which is why I support proper regulation of the vaping industry in the first place. juice is like food you won't just eat rubbish not knowing how it was made so why should vape juice be any different. Who knows what flavor enhancers and potential rubbish could be used if they have an opportunity to cut corners if they could?

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 5


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## LeislB (17/10/20)

I love a post with a happy ending. @Room Fogger, good on you for setting the record straight.

I too love sharing, I do this with vaping, plants and everything I have a passion for. Finding someone who loves it and is as interested in it as I am and helping them is very rewarding in itself.

Reactions: Like 7 | Winner 1 | Thanks 1


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