# Euthanasia



## Hooked (24/6/19)

*Euthanasia debate heats up in SA*
https://www.msn.com/en-za/news/national/it-is-not-doctors-duty-to-kill-euthanasia-debate-heats-up-in-sa

Cape Town - The recent conviction of euthanasia advocate Sean Davison on murder charges has sparked fresh debates on the legalisation of assisted suicide in South Africa.

The 58-year-old professor of biotechnology at the UWC this week received an eight-year sentence - five years suspended and three to be served under house arrest, after entering into a plea agreement.

Davison was convicted of the murders of three people: Dr Anrich Burger in 2013, Justin Varian in 2015 and Richard Holland later that year.

Burger became a quadriplegic after a car accident in 2005 and, according to his mother, Wilma du Pisani, who wrote to the court, attempted suicide in 2006 and even planned to go to Switzerland where euthanasia is legal to end his life - but couldn’t afford the trip.

Varian’s brother Robin Varian said his brother also wanted to die after he suffered a stroke in 2011 and was diagnosed with motor neuron disease. Varian had also requested to be flown to Switzerland or the Netherlands, and Robin claimed, had even acquired poison off the internet from China to end his life.

Holland’s sister Philippa Misplon described how her once-athletic brother - who suffered head injuries after being knocked off a bicycle in Dubai, in the United Arab Emirates - became bedridden and unable to speak, but was able to express his wish to die by communicating through eye movements and agreement to verbal alphabet.

Davison, who is co-founder of DignitySA, which advocates for the legalisation of euthanasia in the country, hosted a conference in Cape Town last year to talk about the challenges faced by countries either having already legalised or in the process of legalising euthanasia …

[…]

Dr Albu van Eeden, head of pro-life organisation Doctors for Life, described Davison’s sentence as “very light for a conviction on murder charges”. He said that as doctors, they were faced with the suffering of patients on a daily basis but that it is not their duty to kill.

“That is what is happening in cases of doctor-assisted suicide. They (patients) don’t want to pull the trigger themselves and are expecting us as doctors to go and do the dirty work for them, but we have been called to heal and not kill,” he said.

“Once you legalise (euthanasia) in a country, to kill will be cheaper for the health sector and it’s a very dangerous precedent you create.”

Weekend Argus


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## Hooked (24/6/19)

Dr Albu van Eeden, head of pro-life organisation Doctors for Life, said " They (patients) don’t want to pull the trigger themselves and are expecting us as doctors to go and do the dirty work for them ..."

It's a bit difficult to "pull the trigger" yourself if you're a quadriplegic or bedridden!! I have no doubt that Dr van Eeden would change his tune if he were in that situation.

As for his statement, “Once you legalise (euthanasia) in a country, *to kill will be cheaper for the health sector* ... ". Therein lies the crux of the matter!! The health industry can't make money from a dead person.

Over and above my reaction to Dr van Eeden, I am strongly, very strongly, in favour of euthanasia. Everyone has the right to live - but they also have the right to die. Furthermore, one does not need to be, for example, a quadriplegic. It's a question of freedom of choice. 

This is *my* life and no-one has the right to tell me what I may or may not do with my life.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Darius1332 (24/6/19)

That doctor seems ignorant beyond words, doctors are supposed to heal and prevent SUFFERING, if a patient has zero quality of life and can't do anything for themselves they should be allowed to request an end to this. 

All 'pro life' groups seem to consider any type of life sacred but beyond care absolutely nothing for those who are alive. With euthanasia you stop unbearable pain, same as with abortion where the parents are unable to support a child you prevent forcing poverty on a new life. Quality of life should be more important than just breathing but these groups only want you to breathe not have a good life.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Room Fogger (24/6/19)

I’m for it, you should have the choice. 

You only have to witness the absolute pain and suffering my father had to go through because of multiple cancers, to know that it could have been so different. How do you feed someone who cannot swallow, how do you give him something to drink. My dad was 6 footer and weighed about 79 kg’s. On his deathbed 4 months later he weighed 41 kg’s. Only is you experience this with a person that can’t walk, can’t talk and can’t a lot of other things will you know why I feel the way I do.

Reactions: Agree 4 | Can relate 2


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## Silver (24/6/19)

Room Fogger said:


> I’m for it, you should have the choice.
> 
> You only have to witness the absolute pain and suffering my father had to go through because of multiple cancers, to know that it could have been so different. How do you feed someone who cannot swallow, how do you give him something to drink. My dad was 6 footer and weighed about 79 kg’s. On his deathbed 4 months later he weighed 41 kg’s. Only is you experience this with a person that can’t walk, can’t talk and can’t a lot of other things will you know why I feel the way I do.



Sorry to hear about your dad @Room Fogger 
That must have been so difficult not just for him but for the family
I shudder just thinking of it.

Similar situation happened to my uncle - also cancer - of the lung. He struggled to eat and drink and the family and him suffered for a long time before the inevitable.

Incidentally, my uncle's passing was one of the driving factors that made me want to switch to vaping

Reactions: Like 3 | Thanks 1


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## Hooked (24/6/19)

Room Fogger said:


> I’m for it, you should have the choice.
> 
> You only have to witness the absolute pain and suffering my father had to go through because of multiple cancers, to know that it could have been so different. How do you feed someone who cannot swallow, how do you give him something to drink. My dad was 6 footer and weighed about 79 kg’s. On his deathbed 4 months later he weighed 41 kg’s. Only is you experience this with a person that can’t walk, can’t talk and can’t a lot of other things will you know why I feel the way I do.



Must have been painful for you to, to watch him suffer @Room Fogger

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Hooked (24/6/19)

Silver said:


> Sorry to hear about your dad @Room Fogger
> That must have been so difficult not just for him but for the family
> I shudder just thinking of it.
> 
> ...



@Silver I gave your post a "like" because your Uncle's suffering motivated you to stop smoking. Warnings on cigarett boxes have no effect, do they?

Reactions: Agree 1 | Thanks 1


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## Hooked (24/6/19)

Just as an aside, one can give instructions to stop treatment i.e. all medication etc. That would be a way to speed up the end, but if a person is in pain I certainly wouldn't want to stop their pain medication.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Room Fogger (24/6/19)

Hooked said:


> Must have been painful for you to, to watch him suffer @Room Fogger


That is not something that I would wish on my worst enemy @Hooked . But at least I could be there to do what I could, even though he didn’t allways know who it was. 

Funny part is he had my brother and I arrange his funeral and finalize that 5 days before passing. Even down to the marching song that had to play when the hearse left, and ensuring his pipe and tobacco bag, and his beret and step outs with sergeant major badges were properly displayed on the coffin, will never forget the undertakers face regarding this.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Raindance (24/6/19)

I support an adults right to put an end to suffering, yet can not condone abortion. It needs to be the choice of the life to be ended to end it. As much as life is a basic human right so is the choice to live it or not.

Regards

Reactions: Like 1 | Disagree 1


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## Hooked (25/6/19)

Room Fogger said:


> That is not something that I would wish on my worst enemy @Hooked . But at least I could be there to do what I could, even though he didn’t allways know who it was.
> 
> Funny part is he had my brother and I arrange his funeral and finalize that 5 days before passing. Even down to the marching song that had to play when the hearse left, and ensuring his pipe and tobacco bag, and his beret and step outs with sergeant major badges were properly displayed on the coffin, will never forget the undertakers face regarding this.



@Room Fogger So he knew that the end was near and I've realised that many people do. I can just imagine the undertaker's reaction!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Hooked (25/6/19)

Raindance said:


> I support an adults right to put an end to suffering, yet can not condone abortion. It needs to be the choice of the life to be ended to end it. As much as life is a basic human right so is the choice to live it or not.
> 
> Regards



I beg to disagree with your stance on abortion @Raindance, but let's not derail this thread!

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Darius1332 (25/6/19)

Abortion and Euthanasia both come down to where and how you define life and then more abstractly quality of life. Once you say this thing is alive then you have to ask is it worth this thing being alive. If it comes down to no this life is not worth it because of current or future suffering then it should be ended.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Hooked (29/6/19)

bump


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## Puff the Magic Dragon (29/6/19)

As an atheist, I am free to make up my own mind on matters such as euthanasia. I absolutely support it under the right conditions. 

Dr Albu van Eeden, who says that people "...are expecting us as doctors to go and do the dirty work for them", is being disingenuous. No one would ask a doctor who is morally against euthanasia to "kill" someone.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Hooked (2/7/19)

bump


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## Hooked (9/7/19)

This poll has closed. Unfortunately only 11 people participated, of which the majority (72.7%) are in favour of euthanasia.

Reactions: Like 1


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