# Mixing High Strength Down To Lower Nic Levels



## ET (9/12/13)

ok so the budget saver in me has decided to order a few ejuices with a nic level of 24 mg/ml. now lately i have tried my best to get the nic level in the stuff i'm vaping down, so i think i'm down to something around 10 or 12 mg/ml, maybe even a little lower.

so i figured i could just add some pg and vg to the original, take a slight hit in the flavour dept and just mix my new juice down in nic content. has anyone else done this and are there any tips and tricks to this?


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## CraftyZA (9/12/13)

It works better with plain PG. By adding more PG, you preserve the flavour much better!
I've seen this in action with the juices that @Mathee gave me. Flavor was still strong, regardless of the fact that it was heavily diluted!

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Andre (9/12/13)

^What Crafty said. Those HHV juices were diluted with PG from 36mg to 18mg. VG tends to mute flavours and is less neutral than PG. Here is a link to a nifty dilution calculator to tell you exactly how much to add: http://www.endmemo.com/bio/dilution.php

Reactions: Informative 2


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## ET (9/12/13)

awesome thanks. granted i prefer my stuff a bit more heavy on the vg side so i shall just have to resign myself to a bit of flavour loss but nothing i can't live with

Reactions: Like 1


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## Angelos Hadjistavri (12/12/13)

I disagree. It's true that PG preserves the flavor better than VG, but if you cut from 24 to 12 mg that means that you also cut the flavor in half. Plus increasing PG levels might create other problems (allergies, gum problems etc)

The best and cheapest way is to do the whole mixture by yourself and regulate PG - VG & flavor levels.


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## Andre (12/12/13)

Angelos Hadjistavri said:


> I disagree. It's true that PG preserves the flavor better than VG, but if you cut from 24 to 12 mg that means that you also cut the flavor in half. Plus increasing PG levels might create other problems (allergies, gum problems etc)
> 
> The best and cheapest way is to do the whole mixture by yourself and regulate PG - VG & flavor levels.


Well that was not our experience with the very specific juices mentioned above. You do make very sweeping and scary statements regarding PG. I trust you can back that up with good proof. Many reputable vendors sell ejuices at very high percentage PG.


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## Angelos Hadjistavri (12/12/13)

Many "reputable vendors" just want to sell tasty juices. the following is an abstract from wikepedia you can follow the link below to double check

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propylene_glycol

*Allergic reaction[edit]*

Research has suggested that individuals who cannot tolerate propylene glycol probably experience a special form of irritation, but that they only rarely develop allergic contact dermatitis. Other investigators believe that the incidence of allergic contact dermatitis to propylene glycol may be greater than 2% in patients with eczema.[38]
Patients with vulvodynia and interstitial cystitis may be especially sensitive to propylene glycol. Women suffering with yeast infections may also notice that some OTC creams can cause intense burning.[39] Post menopausal women who require the use of an estrogen cream may notice that brand name creams made with propylene glycol often create extreme, uncomfortable burning along the vulva and perianal area. Additionally, some electronic cigarette users who inhale propylene glycol vapor may experience dryness of the throat or shortness of breath . As an alternative, some suppliers will put Vegetable Glycerin in the "e-liquid" for those who are allergic (or have bad reactions) to propylene glycol.
A Swedish study published in 2010 strongly suggests a connection between airborne concentrations of propylene glycol in houses and development of asthma and allergic reactions, such as rhinitis or hives in children


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## Angelos Hadjistavri (12/12/13)

And just for clarification..... the higher the PG ratio the more intense is the flavour. That is the reason why most of the flavor concentrates are dissolved in PG. And that is the only reason why many vendors sell liquids with high PG ratios.


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## Gizmo (12/12/13)

Thats some intresting stuff relating to PG. I have noticed some Asthma type symptoms if I chain vape then try do exercise. So cutting down on the PG is the answer!


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## Angelos Hadjistavri (12/12/13)

You found the answer


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## Silver (13/12/13)

I noticed while browsing some of the international e-liquid retailer sites, that they often make quite a big fuss about being able to offer 100% VG e-liquids. 

I was wondering why they do this. Seems like they are sort of proud of their ability to offer PG free juices.

It seems strange if it was only to attract those that are allergic to PG (which by my understanding is a very small % of the population)

Also, I understand that PG improves throat hit and flavour. 

So other than blowing clouds and not creating an allergic reaction for a small minority, why else would you want to use a high VG percentage or pure VG? 

A bit off the original topic, but sort of flows from the discussion

Reactions: Like 1


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## Andre (13/12/13)

Silver1 said:


> I noticed while browsing some of the international e-liquid retailer sites, that they often make quite a big fuss about being able to offer 100% VG e-liquids.
> 
> I was wondering why they do this. Seems like they are sort of proud of their ability to offer PG free juices.
> 
> ...


After that, a balanced view, thanks, Silver. I have read up on this topic extensively and you are quite correct - there is a minority of people who cannot tolerate PG, but what is maybe not so well known is that on the other side of the scale is about the same minority of people who cannot tolerate VG. But very little scientific proof in relation to vaping on either exists. My advice - listen to your body, if you do a high PG juice or a high VG juice and do not like it, don't.

Why 100 % VG is punted is probably because most vendors started off with high PG, it became known that some people cannot tolerate PG, someone got it right to retain good flavour in VG and voila you have a unique selling point. 

So, as time passes, we should get to know more, but there is no disagreement that vaping with PG/VG is still a huge magnitude safer than smoking.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Angelos Hadjistavri (13/12/13)

First of all and because someone asked who am I and from where I am and what is my connection with ... I want to say that my name is Angelos, I am from Cyprus and I am the flavorist/ creator of the eliquids of the specific company.

Now ...... listen to your body (as Matthee suggested). I was a regular smoker for 22 years....I tried to listen to my body ..... but I couldn't hear anything until my first heart incident.

So, what I try to say is that there are some issues that we shall never forget. PG creates problems to some people immediately or after a short period of use. We have no indication of what might be the consequences in the long run. PG is a laboratory product. On the other hand VG is a vegetable derivative found in nature.

If you ask me what I like to use.....I am more on the VG side. I rather loose some taste or flavor instead of having the risk to allergies or other side effects.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Stroodlepuff (14/12/13)

@Angelos Hadjistavri, although we appreciate knowledge from all aspects on this forum, we do not allow punting of products unless you are a certified retailer. The Retailer section of the forum is also strictly for South African vendors, with that I would like to say that you are more than welcome to be a member and part of this community although it is aimed at South Africans, granted that you no longer try and punt your products anywhere on this forum. If you do continue to punt your website and products we will be forced to ban you with immediate effect.


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## Lee_T (20/2/14)

Angelos Hadjistavri said:


> Many "reputable vendors" just want to sell tasty juices. the following is an abstract from wikepedia you can follow the link below to double check
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propylene_glycol
> 
> ...





Stroodlepuff said:


> @Angelos Hadjistavri, although we appreciate knowledge from all aspects on this forum, we do not allow punting of products unless you are a certified retailer. The Retailer section of the forum is also strictly for South African vendors, with that I would like to say that you are more than welcome to be a member and part of this community although it is aimed at South Africans, granted that you no longer try and punt your products anywhere on this forum. If you do continue to punt your website and products we will be forced to ban you with immediate effect.


sorry to bump but I love this.



Lee

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Andre (20/2/14)

Lee_T said:


> sorry to bump but I love this.
> Lee


We have not heard from @Angelos Hadjistavri in a very long time....


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## Lee_T (20/2/14)

He didn't heed?



Lee


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## Andre (20/2/14)

Lee_T said:


> He didn't heed?
> 
> 
> 
> Lee


No, he actually did and contributed some for a short time...


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