# “Vive la France”



## Jan (15/7/16)

Condolences to the victims, their families and to all the emergency and response teams in Nice

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Effjh (15/7/16)

It really is a sad and hopeless situation. So many innocents all over the world being murdered in the name of religion. We are not in the middle ages anymore FFS! 

There is no solution to this, not even greater access to knowledge is helping, it's all so backwards and unnecessary..willing to die for and kill innocent people because of an ideology created 1400 years ago. It's fkn retarded!


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## Cespian (15/7/16)

Effjh said:


> It really is a sad and hopeless situation. So many innocents all over the world being murdered in the name of religion. We are not in the middle ages anymore FFS!
> 
> There is no solution to this, not even greater access to knowledge is helping, it's all so backwards and unnecessary..willing to die for and kill innocent people because of an ideology created 1400 years ago. It's fkn retarded!



Dude... this fool was apparently a depressed man ("after his wife left him") who was former criminal. Its got nothing to do with religion. Oh wait, his name is Mohamed so he must be a member of ISIS right? 

IMO it is a bit ignorant believing that terror attacks are result of religion, fronted maybe, but nowhere near cause.

Reactions: Like 2


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## blujeenz (15/7/16)

Cespian said:


> IMO it is a bit ignorant believing that terror attacks are result of religion, fronted maybe, but nowhere near cause.


I agree.
imo there is an invisible hand on the sword, which cares not for religions, but its own NWO agendas.

Reactions: Like 1 | Thanks 1


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## Effjh (15/7/16)

Cespian said:


> Dude... this fool was apparently a depressed man ("after his wife left him") who was former criminal. Its got nothing to do with religion. Oh wait, his name is Mohamed so he must be a member of ISIS right?
> 
> IMO it is a bit ignorant believing that terror attacks are result of religion, fronted maybe, but nowhere near cause.



Hey bud,

Thought long and hard if I should reply, and probably best I didn't since religious discussions can rarely be done rationally, as religion at it's core is not in fact rational. But here goes.

I wasn't specifically referring to this event by itself, but the broader sequence of events that have been happening all over the world recently. 
So.._"this fool was apparently a depressed man ("after his wife left him") who was former criminal. Its got nothing to do with religion."_ is irrelevant to my point, regardless the jury is still out on that one. There are reports that he was an ISIS fanatic and they took credit for the attack either way.

_"Oh wait, his name is Mohamed so he must be a member of ISIS right?"_ - Who is to blame for that? You make this sound like a far fetched assumption to make, unfortunately in the light of recent history, it's a safe enough bet when there is an attack of this nature, as much as it might irk you.

_"IMO it is a bit ignorant believing that terror attacks are result of religion, fronted maybe, but nowhere near cause."_ - *That's not what I said. *And I don't appreciate you implying that I am ignorant because you mistook my comment. I said:"innocents all over the world being murdered *in the name of religion*". That means exactly what you said, religion is used as a front and I agree with @blujeenz that there are other forces at play.

Unfortunately Islam is being used and *very effectively* in this regard, because if being taken in the absolute literal sense of the ideology, it lends itself perfectly to the cause. In fact, if the book were to be followed word for word, you could argue that ISIS are the only true Muslims and moderates are all "non-believers". 

All in all I am not a fan of any religion. I believe people are free to believe anything they want, but when any religion, government or movement impairs on anybody's right to be free thinking human beings, then they can go F@ck themselves. This might anger a lot of people, but I believe religion will be our "Great Filter", stunting our progress. 

What gets to me is that there does not seem to be any light at the end of the tunnel and this will only get worse, especially for Muslims themselves (ISIS are already killing more muslims than they are any others). It will reach a point where people have had enough and innocent good people will pay the price because of the actions of a few. It is just as much in all Muslims' best interest to stop grasping at straws and take action, stand up and protest the atrocities being committed under the name of their beliefs.

I am sad and feel so hopeless for what happened to all those people in Brussels, Paris, Nice, Bangladesh (Dhaka), Baghdad, Istanbul, Somalia, Nigeria just this year. Whole countries destroyed, like Syria. I don't blame religion, but it would be irresponsible to not consider if the outcome would have been the same were it not such a great tool to drive the nails into the coffin.


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## blujeenz (15/7/16)

Effjh said:


> I am sad and feel so hopeless for what happened to all those people in Brussels, Paris, Nice, Bangladesh (Dhaka), Baghdad, Istanbul, Somalia, Nigeria just this year. Whole countries destroyed, like Syria. I don't blame religion, but it would be irresponsible to not consider if the outcome would have been the same were it not such a great tool to drive the nails into the coffin.



I too thought you were alluding to a particularly fanatical bunch that media tied into Paris attacks, guess it was the landscape of the post.

Still, things could be far far worse... thankfully the Russians arent extemists.
They had a "little" accident at Chernobyl and 30yrs later its still a ghost town.


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## Cespian (15/7/16)

Effjh said:


> Hey bud,
> 
> Thought long and hard if I should reply, and probably best I didn't since religious discussions can rarely be done rationally, as religion at it's core is not in fact rational. But here goes.
> 
> ...



Thanks for that. I agree that religion cannot be discussed rationally. Although we must make it clear that these are our opinions, especially around making claims about religion not being rational and ISIS being true Muslims. The latter statement however is a crock of bullshit and I suggest you maybe do some further research on Islam before making such a bold statement. 

I apologise for implying that you are ignorant. I understood it as a specific attack at a particular religious group, and 1 immediate giveaway was the usage of 1400 years (what religion has been around for that amount of time? Hmmm)

There are so many historical incidents much worse than recent events that are not in the slightest religion related. Apartheid, Holocast, Hiroshima, Colonisation of America (red indians), heck even Capitilism is a crime against humanity... so no, religion plays little part in the sick, psychopathic nature of Man. 

Different people have different beliefs and we should respect that instead of stating that their beliefs are irrational.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Effjh (15/7/16)

Cespian said:


> Thanks for that. I agree that religion cannot be discussed rationally. Although we must make it clear that these are our opinions, especially around making claims about religion not being rational and ISIS being true Muslims. The latter statement however is a crock of bullshit and I suggest you maybe do some further research on Islam before making such a bold statement.
> 
> I apologise for implying that you are ignorant. I understood it as a specific attack at a particular religious group, and 1 immediate giveaway was the usage of 1400 years (what religion has been around for that amount of time? Hmmm)
> 
> ...



Islam was around for that particular amount of time (despite my ignorance ) so yes I was referring to it, but I wasn't attacking Islam, I was attacking people who still believe women are inferior to men, that all gays should be stoned to death and that if you kill the "infidel" you will will some how reserve a VIP seat on Virgin Airways. The same could be said for fundamental Christians or Jews with their socially acceptable genital mutilation of baby boys. 

Holocaust was kinda religion related as it targeted a certain religious/ethnic group. But I get your point. People are assholes, but if they can use religion so effectively to brainwash people, that religion becomes a dangerous tool. Kind of like a gun, in the hands of the wrong person it is a very bad thing even though in the hands of another it can provide food or biltong . Not all guns are made equal though, some are more dangerous than others like a .22 vs an assault rifle with automatic fire rate. Not even the Americans allow those to be sold to the public. 

The ISIS thing wasn't a statement or my views for that matter, it's just food for thought on how open to interpretation religion can be. What I pointed out is ISIS's views, they truly believe that and if they could come to that conclusion through the book they share with you it points to how dangerous any religion can be when used to push a certain agenda. You can't be radicalized if you don't believe.

The bottom line is I cannot fathom how anybody in this day in age can still subscribe to the more extremist versions of these very old and outdated versions of their religions. You are of course free to believe anything you want as long as it doesn't impair on other peoples freedom or safety. I envy religious people, it must be so reassuring to KNOW that there is something on the other side. For me, I just have my human morals to live by and try to make best of the little time we have in this world. Hopefully with less innocent people dying for unimaginably stupid reasons.


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## Effjh (15/7/16)

blujeenz said:


> I too thought you were alluding to a particularly fanatical bunch that media tied into Paris attacks, guess it was the landscape of the post.
> 
> Still, things could be far far worse... thankfully the Russians arent extemists.
> They had a "little" accident at Chernobyl and 30yrs later its still a ghost town.



I get that, the post was made in anger so could very well have come across differently than what I had in mind. I think we are all just sick of this and want it all to stop. It's nature and senselessness of the killing that gets to me, to believe so truly they are doing the right thing. I cannot wrap my head around it.

The Russians are a whole different kettle of fish and so are the Americans. Luckily now more than ever in our history, with the internet it is becoming harder to control the sheeple.


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## blujeenz (15/7/16)

Effjh said:


> Luckily now more than ever in our history, with the internet it is becoming harder to control the sheeple.


Alas, while "internet" can be useful as a tool for awakening, but it isnt by any means the saviour.
We were programmed from birth using a multi pronged assault.
As an example...
We all take it for granted that "*gravity*" is what holds us down on earth, yet the moon sweeps by overhead and raises the mightly oceans(tides) leaving the tiny mosquito unmolested.


> According to wikipedia, the moon has 83% less gravity than earth due to its smaller mass.


So *"their program*" featured a much smaller moon pulling the oceans away from the earths gravity, but only where the seas meet the land and not out in the middle of the vast ocean which would lie directly under the moons path.
Strangely, inland bodies of water(lakes) are unaffected by the moon, huh go figure. 
When you understand why you havent questioned this construct, then you will begin to understand how you were programmed.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Cespian (15/7/16)

@Effjh I think that we have digressed a little bit. I read a lot of hostility and volatile beliefs from you (tone is assumed by the reader), and thought it unfair to bring religion into it. With the likes of ISIS, KKK, Bangladeshi Buddhists etc. it makes me sick that these groups (with the help of the media) forces us to immediately assume terrorism to be related to Religion. And most commonly an attack on Muslims. The comment you made: "_people who still believe women are inferior to men, that all gays should be stoned to death and that if you kill the "infidel" you will will some how reserve a VIP seat on Virgin Airways._" is a perfect example of a misinterpretation, where narrating a story of historical cultural norms are assumed to be an instruction. It saddens me even more (and this ties in with the opening sentence of your last paragraph), that the true message spoken by most religions, guides us to be tolerant, accepting, humble etc. to one another, but the extremists force people to create these dangerous assumptions. 

My point (in a nutshell) was that we (and I say we because I do it occasionally too) should stop being so quick to even mention any religious group, racial group or cultural group for a catastrophe like this one in Nice. *And that is the only reason I engaged in this discussion.* Let us keep our views and beliefs to ourselves (each to his own). I so wish we could all just get over these "labels".

I apologise for any stress my responses may have caused.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Cespian (15/7/16)

blujeenz said:


> Alas, while "internet" can be useful as a tool for awakening, but it isnt by any means the saviour.
> We were programmed from birth using a multi pronged assault.
> As an example...
> We all take it for granted that "*gravity*" is what holds us down on earth, yet the moon sweeps by overhead and raises the mightly oceans(tides) leaving the tiny mosquito unmolested.
> ...



I was involved in a similar study on this not too long ago (well not this exact topic - but how we are programmed by our surroundings and upbringings). I work for a big retail company that has been trying exceptionally hard to compete in the lower LSM's. 1 of the findings was that people associated the brand with high quality, and would not even enter the store as they assumed it to be expensive. 

Cognitive Programming can be a very detrimental thing.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Effjh (15/7/16)

Cespian said:


> @Effjh I think that we have digressed a little bit. I read a lot of hostility and volatile beliefs from you (tone is assumed by the reader), and thought it unfair to bring religion into it. With the likes of ISIS, KKK, Bangladeshi Buddhists etc. it makes me sick that these groups (with the help of the media) forces us to immediately assume terrorism to be related to Religion. And most commonly an attack on Muslims. The comment you made: "_people who still believe women are inferior to men, that all gays should be stoned to death and that if you kill the "infidel" you will will some how reserve a VIP seat on Virgin Airways._" is a perfect example of a misinterpretation, where narrating a story of historical cultural norms are assumed to be an instruction. It saddens me even more (and this ties in with the opening sentence of your last paragraph), that the true message spoken by most religions, guides us to be tolerant, accepting, humble etc. to one another, but the extremists force people to create these dangerous assumptions.
> 
> My point (in a nutshell) was that we (and I say we because I do it occasionally too) should stop being so quick to even mention any religious group, racial group or cultural group for a catastrophe like this one in Nice. *And that is the only reason I engaged in this discussion.* Let us keep our views and beliefs to ourselves (each to his own). I so wish we could all just get over these "labels".
> 
> I apologise for any stress my responses may have caused.



Thanks for the reply Cespian, it is just my opinion. My intention was not to force that opinion onto you, but give you another point of view to what you might subscribe to and do with it what you want. I do however feel it warrants a discussion at least. My main gripe is specically with the extremist interpretations of religions and how some people can fall prey to that state of mind and the ramifications it has on innocent lives. This cannot and should not be ignored. No matter what atrocities happened in the past, it doesn't make this less of a problem.

Apologies if I offended you or your beliefs in any way, but I am 100% sure you don't subscribe to the extremist beliefs I challenged so it was not directed at you or Muslims in general. I do not believe we should keep to ourselves though, as that is part of the greater problem. Certain things need to be addresses and discussed instead of turning a blind eye to the realities we face.

No stress, thanks for engaging with me. Haven't written this many sentences since school.

Reactions: Like 2


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