# DIY - What's the Catch



## Glytch (20/7/16)

I've been doing some research on mixing my own e-liquids and pricing the various bases, concentrates etc. I've done some calculations and it seems you can make 30ml of your own liquid for around R25 - R30 per 30ml.

This sounds too good to be true. What's the catch?

- Do they not taste as good as premium liquids?
- Do you get bored of the same flavours?
- Is there some wastage of the bases that I'm not accounting for?
- Does it take too long?
- Do DIY liquids not vape as well as premium liquids in most mods?

I'm just struggling to see how you can produce e-liquid at a fraction of the cost of commercially available liquids.

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## Dane (20/7/16)

From my experience your estimates on cost is quite accurate. It obviously depends on % of total flavouring and nicotine but you could average out at that price or even less.

On the commercial juice you have to account for other factors such as child lock bottles, attractive labelling, marketing, distribution, facilities for manufacturing, time, R&D etc. 

There are a lot recipes out there that 'taste' very much premium and in many cases better than the commercially available juices. It comes down to whether you feel the time spent on experimenting to find what you like vs. just buying what you already like is worth it...

I love DIY because it is a hobby for me and also I like variety without breaking the bank.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

Reactions: Like 6 | Agree 4 | Optimistic 1


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## PsyCLown (20/7/16)

Hmm, well you need to either follow recipe's which can be hit or miss, or you need to try and mix your own juices which comes down to trial and error and a looot of tinkering.

Generally you need to wait for the juice to steep as well, I found that 7 days is the average for the juices I have tried. Before then some can be rather unpleasant.

It takes time and effort as well as a slight learning curve, this is the main one. Not everyone will be willing to do this.

Otherwise DIY can be far better than store purchased juices and certainly cheaper as well. If you want to try some DIY recipe's without purchasing all of the flavours check out www.flavrvape.co.za they offer an awesome DIY mixing service where you pick a recipe and they will make it for you and ship it to you - still works out cheaper than store purchased juices. I'd recommend trying a few various recipe's, perhaps even clones which are highly recommended.

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## Warlock (20/7/16)

Hi @Glytch, I have the same dilemma. I’m hoping someone will explain it here soon. In the mean time I’m just going to go in head first and see what happens.


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## Glytch (20/7/16)

Dane said:


> I love DIY because it is a hobby for me and also I like variety without breaking the bank.



Thanks for the reply. Cost is the main factor for me. I have a budget of R700pm for coils and juice. I'm moving from a Twisp to a iStick Pico 75W + Melo 3 and I've read that sub-ohm tanks eat through liquid. I want to stay within budget with the new device so I'm looking at DIYing my juice.


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## MoneymanVape (20/7/16)

Yes it is cheaper. You will how ever waste a bit in the beginning. But with alot of research and patience you can make your own e liquid and will appeal to your own pallet. The best way is starting with the basics. For example if you like fruits search for recipe. There are didfrent makes and they all tast diffrent. Buy a couple on flavours plus the bases eg pg, vg and nic. Mix 5ml batches without nic. Steep for couple days shaking each day. Drip it and see if you like it. Tweak if you need to. Take notes LOTS of notes. Wgat you used, how mutch what brand hiw long did you steep when did you make it etc. I use a small scale but you can use small syringe. It does take a while. But ita fun. Once you have 1 or 2 you like make them add nix and use it. Already you are buying less. And carry on searching for new idees. The best is research. But i personally found making my own resepies were somewhat better than what i found. But you can always modify resepies found on the net.
Good luck.

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## Glytch (20/7/16)

PsyCLown said:


> If you want to try some DIY recipe's without purchasing all of the flavours check out www.flavrvape.co.za they offer an awesome DIY mixing service where you pick a recipe and they will make it for you and ship it to you - still works out cheaper than store purchased juices.



That is f!@#ing cool!


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## Silver (20/7/16)

Hi @Glytch 

I am no DIY expert but have dabbled a bit

I think your questions are spot on
No catch really

But i think it does take a lot of time and effort and many tries to get a juice thats great and then perfect it. So time and effort to get the perfect recipe for you is probably the big catch.

Then the effort to mix it and steep it and keep on ordering the concentrates and the other ingredients.

I see it in many ways like eating out at a restaurant versus cooking at home.

You can get a great restaurant that makes an awesome meal and the whole experience is quite amazing. But you pay up for it

Or you can cook at home and make whatever you like. Most likely more cost effective but you have to peel the potatoes, prepare the sauces and wash the dishes afterwards...

Probably not the best analogy but i like it.

I have dabbled a bit in DIY but find myself so consumed with tasting juices from the awesome local mixologists and trying to review them when I can. I do plan to get more into DIY when time permits though...

Reactions: Like 9 | Agree 3


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## Jan (20/7/16)

I have a feeling your estimates are a bit low
I reckon R40 bucks for 30ml is more realistic.

Remember there are variables that influence your cost. Some liquids requires 10% flavour concentrate and some as much as 22% the other one that can have a big influence on your cost is your nic strength it is much cheaper to make a 6mg liquid than a 18mg and then there is the quality of your bottles a glass bottle is much more expensive than a plastic one. 

There are a few downsides to DIY
1) Capital outlay, you need to spend a few $'s to get started.
2) Finding good recipes, making a liquid that you actually like can be a challenge.
3) Steeping, if you buy a juice it is ready to vape if you DIY you sometimes have to wait a week or two before you can vape it.

But in the end if you can master it you can save you a lot of money and it gives a new dimension to your vaping

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1


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## Warlock (20/7/16)

Ok so my post came in a bit late, but thank you @Dane and @PsyCLown


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## Glytch (20/7/16)

Jan said:


> 1) Capital outlay, you need to spend a few $'s to get started.



I hear you but the way I see it if I'm spending +- R500 on Juice a month that can get me started quite nicely. Especially if I order 3 concentrates for a tried and tested recipe. I'll vape it regardless of taste till I buy more concentrates the next month.

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## Warlock (20/7/16)

Can youall just stand still for a moment!! Thank you @Silver and @Jan as well

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## Silver (20/7/16)

Glytch said:


> I hear you but the way I see it if I'm spending +- R500 on Juice a month that can get me started quite nicely. Especially if I order 3 concentrates for a tried and tested recipe. I'll vape it regardless of taste till I buy more concentrates the next month.



There is a thread @Glytch where DiYers show how many flavour concentrates they have
Most are above 30 or 40 or more

If you find a recipe and get those 3 concentrates and mix it, you may need to wait a week till it steeps properly and then absolutely hate it. Would be difficult to vape that for a whole month!

I would suggest rather finding 3 or 4 recipes you can make from say 5 to 8 concentrates. Some work in various recipes and go well with many things. Then make 3 juices. But also, get some ready made juice you know you like as well to keep you going if you dont like the recipes...

May be a slightly bigger upfront cost but at least you have a better chance to get something you like

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## PsyCLown (20/7/16)

Glytch said:


> I hear you but the way I see it if I'm spending +- R500 on Juice a month that can get me started quite nicely. Especially if I order 3 concentrates for a tried and tested recipe. I'll vape it regardless of taste till I buy more concentrates the next month.



Look, my friends and I tried a whole lot of recipe's and got it from Flavrvape before we decided to pick a few recipe's and get some flavours for those recipe's and we did get one or two which were not to my personal preference. Ironically 2 are really popular recipe's which are often highly recommended, soo... Just be careful and expect a few flavours you dislike.

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## Glytch (20/7/16)

Silver said:


> I would suggest rather finding 3 or 4 recipes you can make from say 5 to 8 concentrates. Some work in various recipes and go well with many things. Then make 3 juices. But also, get some ready made juice you know you like as well to keep you going if you dont like the recipes...



Good advice. Thanks.

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## Jan (20/7/16)

Glytch said:


> I hear you but the way I see it if I'm spending +- R500 on Juice a month that can get me started quite nicely. Especially if I order 3 concentrates for a tried and tested recipe. I'll vape it regardless of taste till I buy more concentrates the next month.


In theory yes, but trust me I have tasted some horrible recipes 
I think you should try and budget a bit more and have 10-12 concentrates plus all the additives like sweetener koolada etc. But give it a go I also want to get back in the Diy game for the purpose of saving money and to have juice I can waste in a good tank and a big mod

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## Viper_SA (20/7/16)

If you tell us what you usually vape we would be able to assist with concentrates to buy etc. Some of my recipes cost me lime R50 for a 100ml at 3mg nic. One of my favorites only uses 2 concentrates. And I have subbed out one of them to a more concentrated concentrate to use less and save more. I made liters of crap juice, but still vaped some of it. Now, I'm happy with my stuff and enjoy most of it more than store bought juices.

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## Slick (20/7/16)

As a diy mixer for about a year now,i would highly suggest getting a scale from Valley vapour,it makes it so much more enjoyable, I can't even think how I managed to use syringes and pipettes,Yes diy requires alot of time,but when u mix up something that tastes good,and other people like it as well,that feeling is unexplainable!

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## Effjh (20/7/16)

No catch. It's the most liberating experience so far for me since I started the vaping journey. I wasted tons of cash trying to find my ADV. With DIY I got to try a lot of different flavour profiles that I would not have taken a chance on buying commercial juices in the fear of wasting money.

The learning curve really is obsolete nowadays as there are tons of really good recipes available that others have already done the ground work on. DIYORDIE is a good starting point for tried and tested good recipes. Also check out Alltheflavours, very useful tool and many great recipes.

BUY A SCALE. Just do it. Cuts the mixing time and effort so much. I can mix a month's worth of juice in 10mins using a scale.

DIY is going to be a very important skill in the near future and it is as easy now to get into as ever. Jump onboard and enjoy the ride.

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## Trashcanman3284 (20/7/16)

My two cents as a new DIYer. Everything said above is what I've experienced so far. LOTS of trial and error, LOTS of notes, and quite a bit of crap liquid mixed. I started by just buying a few concentrates without really having looked at many recipes and ended up with some dissapointing results. One cherry menthol concoction of mine can be sold to clean ovens. Then looked at recipes I thought would be a nice vape and bought concentrates accordingly. The results were mixed, but it did teach me loads. The catch for me is the time factor. Not only the steeping time, but the actual time spent mixing. My calculations are currently sitting between R35 to R45 per 30ml depending on the number of concentrates used and % flavour.

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## RichJB (20/7/16)

The big thing about DIY is that you get to practise your powers of imagination. Mainly by tasting your own juices and imagining to yourself "Wow, this is way better than any commercial juice I've tasted!" 

Seriously, though, it's a good deal. I had only ever vaped the VaporFi range of juices before starting my own. And everything I've done is at least on par with those juices. I have never mixed anything I couldn't vape with ease, nor even anything that I couldn't wait to finish. I have no doubt that there are some, probably many, commercial juices that are tastier than my own. But 5X the cost tastier? Hmmm. The way I look at it is this: a Michelin Star restaurant meal is going to be a lot tastier than the cottage pie I make at home. But do I want to eat at a Michelin Star restaurant three times a day? I don't need to drink a 30 year old collectors' vintage in order to enjoy wine. A cheaper bottle or even Chateau Cardboard will do as a daily tipple. I don't need to eat imported Belgian chocolate. A Cadbury's bar will do. An occasional more expensive treat is fine and I think it's good and healthy to support local juice manufacturers. But I don't need the best that money can buy in anything else. Why would I need it in vaping?

If you had to mix crazily complex combinations to get anything decent in DIY, it might be too much hassle. But you don't. Right now, I'm vaping plain TFA Bananas Foster in my Avo24. Nothing else, just 10% Bananas Foster in a 50:50 mix. And it's perfectly decent. I'm getting a nice aroma of banana dessert, and I'm getting "sugar lips" from the odd bit of juice on my lips. It might not send me into raptures of ecstasy and it won't win me any prizes. But at this cost, it doesn't need to. You don't expect champagne when you're paying for Coke.

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## Glytch (21/7/16)

Trashcanman3284 said:


> My two cents as a new DIYer. Everything said above is what I've experienced so far. LOTS of trial and error, LOTS of notes, and quite a bit of crap liquid mixed. I started by just buying a few concentrates without really having looked at many recipes and ended up with some dissapointing results. One cherry menthol concoction of mine can be sold to clean ovens. Then looked at recipes I thought would be a nice vape and bought concentrates accordingly. The results were mixed, but it did teach me loads. The catch for me is the time factor. Not only the steeping time, but the actual time spent mixing. My calculations are currently sitting between R35 to R45 per 30ml depending on the number of concentrates used and % flavour.


Thanks. I like simplicity so I reckon a few concentrates will serve me well.

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## PsiSan (21/7/16)

Really nice replies, think that covers most of it. There is not really a catch except there is no such thing as enough concentrates. But list what flavors you like and we can help you pick out what you would need to get started as @Jan said 10 - 12 concentrates is recommended. Personally I prefer my own juice to commercial juice, the scale does make life much easier, but if you are on a budget working without one is not really that hard if you got some basic kitchen utensils. and time wise is not that bad. Steeping can become a problem if you are impatient like me, as not all juice is shake-a-vape compatible


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## Huffapuff (21/7/16)

DIY is the best part of vaping for me. And there really is no catch*

Initially you need to spend some cash getting the basics, but that's no different to when you started vaping and bought your first device - it was way more expensive than a box of smokes, but in the long run it's cheaper (provided you DIY this too!) 

But you can pick up 10 concentrates for the cost of 60mls of the international commercial juices and those concentrates will last for months.

Check out Valley Vapour's bulk order specials (buy 10 and get 10% off means you get one concentrate for free) - a great way to start.

There can be a lot of trial and error at first as you learn, but you can get around this by using established and popular recipes from people like HeadinClouds (HIC) or DIYORDIE. See what they offer and trial their recipes out in the beginning. This way you won't waste much as you learn.

As you begin to understand how juices are created you can get into the experimenting - which is where the real fun is. But to get that initial return on investment just find 3 or 4 reliable recipes and get the ingredients you need for those. Vape these while you build up your flavour stash.

Within a few of months you'll start saving cash and be really enjoying yourself while vaping some awesome juices 

*I lied, there is a catch: Once you start DIY you'll always be wanting more flavours and newer recipes. You'll start tasting and smelling everything in a new light and breaking it down into base notes and top notes and trying to find a way to replicate it. You'll walk through the supermarket and be seeing everything in flavour profiles and wondering if that apple juice could be done with 2% FA Fuji Apple and 1% TFA Apple...

You know what - just run now, get out while you still can. There's still hope for you!

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## Andre (21/7/16)

When you start out vaping you have no idea which types of juice you will like. So, one spends a lot of money getting to know your tastes. Once you have an idea, you look at the commercial juices and reviews thereof (if available) and try to match that with your preferences. Still, not all will suit your taste. And you do want to experiment with new sensations from time to time. A few more fails result. All in all it can become quite expensive.

I started DIYing about 4 months ago. My first port of call was to search for good recipes, which suit my tastes. I also researched the individual concentrates of each recipe. Then I bought the flavour concentrates for those recipes. And the other stuff required (PG/VG/Nicotine/bottles, scale). A scale is a godsend. Quite a capital investment to start off, but you can cater it to your purse. 

Made 10 ml testers. Tasted and made bigger quantities of those I liked. For those first recipes my hit rate for keepers was in the high 90 percent. The better your research, the better your results. I did not and still do not try to make my own concoctions as a rule, other than tweaking existing recipes to my taste. Try to keep enough commercial juices of your liking at hand for those beginning stages - so you can get through the testing period, allow your creations to cure/steep and build up your own stock.

As you go along you learn a lot. You learn whose recipes you can trust and whose not, which concentrates you do not like, etcetera. You can consult with the DIY experts on this forum if you have questions. Via threads or via PM.

Here are some resources for you:

There is this person, HeadinClouds (HIC), on VapingUnderground. He has a lot of recipes on there. I have yet to make one that is not good. If I like the taste profile of one of his recipes I skip the 10 ml tester and go straight to 30 ml. He also has a little store where he sells recipes for around $3 each. These are all winners too. You can find this store here. He mainly uses FA concentrates, which are more concentrated than most other brands around, which make them more economical.
www.e-liquid-recipes.com is a great site if you use it correctly. Register for free. You can then input all your concentrates and the system will tell you which recipes you can make with those concentrates. It lists all concentrates with notes and recipes for those. People submit recipes and other members can rate those recipes. If you click on the "ratings" header it will sort all the recipes from those with the highest and most ratings. When I started off I went through the top ones and picked those that suited my tastes. Read the comments to a recipe - it teaches you a lot. 
As others said above, www.diyordievaping.com is also a good resource. I do not use them much as most of their recipes do not suit me.
You can pick up some gems on Reddit as well.
Do take the trouble to read through this forum's DIY threads. I learned a lot from them.
Yes, @Huffapuff is more than correct. With discipline DIY can save you a lot of money, but it can be an endless rabbit hole too. I am well down this rabbit hole!

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## rogue zombie (21/7/16)

Effjh said:


> No catch. It's the most liberating experience so far for me since I started the vaping journey. I wasted tons of cash trying to find my ADV. With DIY I got to try a lot of different flavour profiles that I would not have taken a chance on buying commercial juices in the fear of wasting money.
> 
> The learning curve really is obsolete nowadays as there are tons of really good recipes available that others have already done the ground work on. DIYORDIE is a good starting point for tried and tested good recipes. Also check out Alltheflavours, very useful tool and many great recipes.



I agree.

If you look at the recipes from the resources @Andre posted, obviously use initiative and read comments where applicable, its difficult to go wrong nowadays. Great recipes were hard to find even just a year ago. Now there's plenty of amazing stuff to be found.

Of coarse you will find you don't like some maybe even popular recipes, but the same applies to buying commercial juice.
So there's plenty "weeding out" recipes you don't like.

The real beauty of DIY for me for example, the profiles I have vaped this week alone you wont find commercially. Because they are unusual, the juice maker would be taking a risk putting stuff out like this. I've been vaping Earl Grey Tea or Coconut Brandy for example - strange but awesome, but probably wouldn't sell well.

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## Feliks Karp (21/7/16)

To me the best part of DIY is that you are now 100% in control of not only the flavours you vape, but what goes in, I remember your other post you were concerned over ingredients in vape juice, well now you can do some research and decide what you feel comfortable putting in.

Coming in for a close second, is that if you don't buy pre-mixed nic, you can now control your nicotine 100%, initially even the drop from 6 mg to 3 mg was a little rough for me and I felt myself craving cigarettes, I wish I had DIY'd even sooner so that I could have weened myself down by doing 5mg, 4mg etc, my DIY juices are now 3mg,2.8 mg and I have a 2,6 mg busy steeping. 

You also don't actually have to waste any, if you take alot of precise notes, any juice that tastes a bit borked you can split up and remix by calculating how much you want to reduce or add to it. 

The only real "catch" to me, and would also be an imperative "newbie" tip, make a couple certified shake-'n-vape juices before you try out one that needs to steep, else you'll find yourself sitting without juice, tempted to vape those ones that really need to be steeping for a week or two.

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## Glytch (21/7/16)

Thanks for all the amazing advice. This community is just a god-send for a geek!



Effjh said:


> BUY A SCALE. Just do it. Cuts the mixing time and effort so much. I can mix a month's worth of juice in 10mins using a scale.



Luckily I work at a school and the science lab has scales I can use! Will definitely do this by weight.



Huffapuff said:


> But to get that initial return on investment just find 3 or 4 reliable recipes and get the ingredients you need for those. Vape these while you build up your flavour stash.





Andre said:


> I started DIYing about 4 months ago. My first port of call was to search for good recipes, which suit my tastes. I also researched the individual concentrates of each recipe. Then I bought the flavour concentrates for those recipes. And the other stuff required (PG/VG/Nicotine/bottles, scale). A scale is a godsend. Quite a capital investment to start off, but you can cater it to your purse.
> 
> Made 10 ml testers. Tasted and made bigger quantities of those I liked. For those first recipes my hit rate for keepers was in the high 90 percent. The better your research, the better your results. I did not and still do not try to make my own concoctions as a rule, other than tweaking existing recipes to my taste.



This is exactly what I plan to do: go with tried and tested simple recipes with a few concentrates.

I've come across a recipe for Strawberry Cream from the New Amsterdam Vape video for DIY for Beginners which tickles me. Only uses three concentrates (TFA Strawberry Ripe, TFA Bavarian Cream and TFA Graham Cracker Clear). Apparently these are good bases to add other flavours too. I plan to make a few batches of that e-liquid and buy more concentrates at the end of each month.

Since the PG/VG/Nicotine will last far longer than the concentrates by my calculations I will buy a few more concentrates the month following my initial layout. I can get the initial PG/VG/Nicotine/Concentrates for around R500 with delivery which will be August. I'll vape the strawberry cream and I WILL like it  End of August I'll up my stock of concentrates of a few more very popular ones that are often combined and then mix a few more reliable flavours.

This strategy while hopefully reduce my monthly costs on e-liquid below R550pm within two months.

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## Glytch (21/7/16)

PsyCLown said:


> It takes time and effort as well as a slight learning curve, this is the main one. Not everyone will be willing to do this.





MoneymanVape said:


> It does take a while.





Silver said:


> But i think it does take a lot of time and effort and many tries to get a juice thats great and then perfect it. So time and effort to get the perfect recipe for you is probably the big catch.





Slick said:


> Yes diy requires alot of time



Luckily my lifestyle involves a lot of time. I live in rural KZN so evenings and weekends are super low key and chilled. I love projects as well so this suits my geek personality.

Also living in a rural area I need to pay shipping on liquids as well (up to R85) which also increases the cost. With my sub-ohm tank my budget allows for max 3 x 30ml bottles per month which might now be enough. I'm going through 60ml of juice per month on my twisp (mostly because it produces almost no vapour ... except if you crank the voltage up, which burns the coils.... and my third battery in a year only holds charge for 4 hours). So I need a more cost-effective way of consuming e-liquid. 

The twisp also hasn't spoilt me for flavours (I've only changed my flavour combo twice in two years) so I reckon any decent tasting liquid in a sub-ohm tank will do for now.

Thanks for all the advice.

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## Charel van Biljon (21/7/16)

Well it seams your question have been answered, but I also just want to say, that there is no catch.
I started a week ago with DIY after 7 months of vaping to have more control over my vaping experience and also obviously cut costs.
My Monthly juice budget was just getting stupid, so I started seriously looking into DIY.
It might be intimidating at first, but with proper research and good info like on here, you will find it not to be so difficult at all.

Well, good luck and all the best with your DIY venture.

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## Glytch (21/7/16)

Viper_SA said:


> If you tell us what you usually vape we would be able to assist with concentrates to buy etc. Some of my recipes cost me lime R50 for a 100ml at 3mg nic. One of my favorites only uses 2 concentrates. And I have subbed out one of them to a more concentrated concentrate to use less and save more. I made liters of crap juice, but still vaped some of it. Now, I'm happy with my stuff and enjoy most of it more than store bought juices.



@Viper_SA : Please send your two-concentrate recipe!



PsiSan said:


> But list what flavors you like and we can help you pick out what you would need to get started



Thanks for offering guys. I like fruit flavours that aren't overly sweet (I found the sweeter flavours a bit cloying in the twisp after a while. Left a sickly aftertaste). I enjoy flavours based on berries and cirtrus. Hate liquorice or melon though. Also not a big fan of nutty, choclately or coffee. Please send suggestions.


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## Andre (21/7/16)

Glytch said:


> @Viper_SA : Please send your two-concentrate recipe!
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for offering guys. I like fruit flavours that aren't overly sweet (I found the sweeter flavours a bit cloying in the twisp after a while. Left a sickly aftertaste). I enjoy flavours based on berries and cirtrus. Hate liquorice or melon though. Also not a big fan of nutty, choclately or coffee. Please send suggestions.


Some fruit recipes here: http://www.ecigssa.co.za/diy-fruit-recipes.t25444/


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## RichJB (21/7/16)

Glytch, your R700 a month budget should go a long, long way with DIY. If you're looking to save additional costs, consider DIY coiling. A full Geekvape or Coil Master kit with some wire and cotton will cost you around a grand. But thereafter making and wicking your own coils can become ridiculously cheap, probably around twenty bucks a month. Commercial coils can cost you R80-R150 a month depending on what coils you buy and how often you change them.

Going full DIY (juice and coils), I vape for less than R200 a month now. That was the cost of 8 packs of 20 Winston in Jan 2016 when I quit, or just over five cigs per day. Considering I was smoking 15 a day, the monthly savings are quickly amortising the costs of mods, tanks, batteries and DIY gear. Vaping can be very economical. The trick is to avoid the allure of shiny new toys, and absolutely having to own every new mod and tank that hits the market. 

I have all the gear I want now: three mods, three tanks, all my DIY stuff. So from now on, it's saving all the way. Of course, I'll still buy the odd new tank or whatever. Vapers are like anglers, we want new toys now and then, no matter how many we already have. But overall, I reckon I'm ahead of where I would be with smoking. And that's just financially, there is the health aspect too. It's a good deal all round.

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## Glytch (21/7/16)

RichJB said:


> Glytch, your R700 a month budget should go a long, long way with DIY. If you're looking to save additional costs, consider DIY coiling. A full Geekvape or Coil Master kit with some wire and cotton will cost you around a grand. But thereafter making and wicking your own coils can become ridiculously cheap, probably around twenty bucks a month. Commercial coils can cost you R80-R150 a month depending on what coils you buy and how often you change them.
> 
> Going full DIY (juice and coils), I vape for less than R200 a month now. That was the cost of 8 packs of 20 Winston in Jan 2016 when I quit, or just over five cigs per day. Considering I was smoking 15 a day, the monthly savings are quickly amortising the costs of mods, tanks, batteries and DIY gear. Vaping can be very economical. The trick is to avoid the allure of shiny new toys, and absolutely having to own every new mod and tank that hits the market.
> 
> I have all the gear I want now: three mods, three tanks, all my DIY stuff. So from now on, it's saving all the way. Of course, I'll still buy the odd new tank or whatever. Vapers are like anglers, we want new toys now and then, no matter how many we already have. But overall, I reckon I'm ahead of where I would be with smoking. And that's just financially, there is the health aspect too. It's a good deal all round.


@RichJB How much liquid do you go through a month?

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## PsiSan (21/7/16)

That is true @RichJB, on Fasttech as we speak looking for a new mod hahaha

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## RichJB (21/7/16)

Glytch, I vape about 6ml per day for around 180ml a month. My DIY juice costs me just under R1 per ml. So say R180 for juice and R20 (if that) for wire and cotton. A 10m roll of kanthal and a bag of cotton goes a loooooong way.

To break down my juice costs:
2 x 100ml 36mg nic @ R150 each = R300
1 x 500ml PG @ R50 = R50
2 x 500ml VG @ R50 = R100
15 bottles of flavour @ R40 ea = R600
Total cost: R1050

That will make 1200ml of 50:50 6mg juice, with 400ml of VG and a little PG left over for the next batch. I find that 10% flavour is about average, less if I use Flavor Art, a bit more with some other brands. It also depends on the recipe but I make quite a lot of single-flavour and dual-flavour juices where total flavour is often a bit less. So I will usually have a bit of flavour left over which, together with the left-over VG and PG, makes the next batch a bit cheaper. It also means that my range of flavours in stock grows over time. But R1050 is what I budget for 1200ml of juice.

PsiSan, tell me about it. I'd no sooner got my Merlin than the Unlimited Plus RDTA came out. Ooh, an Avo with extra juice capacity and side fill. And so pretty too! Must... resist...

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## Glytch (21/7/16)

RichJB said:


> Glytch, I vape about 6ml per day for around 180ml a month. My DIY juice costs me just under R1 per ml. So say R180 for juice and R20 (if that) for wire and cotton. A 10m roll of kanthal and a bag of cotton goes a loooooong way.
> 
> To break down my juice costs:
> 2 x 100ml 36mg nic @ R150 each = R300
> ...



Thanks @RichJB. Those match my rough calculations. Glad to hear it's working for someone! I'll let you know how it goes.


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## SAVaper (21/7/16)

Hi,

DIY - It's great. Yes, it is cost effective (in the long run). Initially I put a lot of money into my DIY (Between R3k and R4k)

I have a costing sheet that I update every time I buy new product. It includes the cost of bottles and labels and all ingredients. The cost for 30ml range between R30 and R100 depending on the recipe, the % of ingredients and the number of ingredients.

Down side is like anything else, trial-and-error. Some work and some don't
DO NOT BUY cheap flavours.
I tried about 6 recipes and none worked. All had to go into the drain. I then bought from Valley Vapour and the same recipes worked perfectly. I immediately chucked 5 bottles of cheap flavours in the drain.

Good luck and enjoy.


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## Glytch (21/7/16)

SAVaper said:


> DO NOT BUY cheap flavours.



@SAVaper are TFA concentrates good? Which ones should I avoid?

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## Jan (21/7/16)

Glytch said:


> @SAVaper are TFA concentrates good? Which ones should I avoid?


TFA is good (my opinion) well quite frankly all the flavours that are stocked by die big DIY vendors are good (again my opinion)


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## PsiSan (21/7/16)

Around 60% of my concentrates is TFA and 30% Cappella


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## Andre (21/7/16)

Glytch said:


> @SAVaper are TFA concentrates good? Which ones should I avoid?


I am a FA fan, but do have many TFA concentrates as well. You will find a lot of recipes for both brands. If a recipe says FA, use FA and not another brand unless it is a very minor ingredient. As you go along you will learn that there are certain flavours that are best in a certain brand, but do not worry about that now.

Let the recipes you want to start off with guide you as to which brand(s) to get at this stage.

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## Caveman (21/7/16)

Glytch said:


> Since the PG/VG/Nicotine will last far longer than the concentrates by my calculations I will buy a few more concentrates the month following my initial layout. I can get the initial PG/VG/Nicotine/Concentrates for around R500 with delivery which will be August. I'll vape the strawberry cream and I WILL like it  End of August I'll up my stock of concentrates of a few more very popular ones that are often combined and then mix a few more reliable flavours.
> 
> This strategy while hopefully reduce my monthly costs on e-liquid below R550pm within two months.



I think you might have that the other way round, are you talking about consumption or shelf life? PG and VG do not last long at all once you get into it. Be careful though, you can get sucked into this black hole of experimentation quite damned quickly. I make most of my juices at 70/30 VG/PG so VG goes much quicker than PG, some recipes call for total of 8% flavor others call for 20%, so the cost varies based on the recipe also.

Once you get into it and make things you really enjoy, its pretty much over. You will never look back again. I go through anything from 10 - 30ml a day depending on how I feel. (I blame you Tornado) and without DIY I would not be able to afford it at all.

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## SAVaper (21/7/16)

Glytch said:


> @SAVaper are TFA concentrates good? Which ones should I avoid?



Hi, I use some TFA some CAP some FA and some INW. I only buy from Valley Vapour. I know they are slightly more expensive compared to others but I get top quality product and amazing service. They also have the widest selection and other vendors run out of stock far more frequently - IMHO. (And they now have a loyalty program )

I bought some flavours labelled as TFA but not from a reputable vendor, and after using them I wonder if it actually was TFA. With no dates on any of the labels it could have been very old stock. Ended up putting it down the drain because it was terrible.

Because I am going to inhale the stuff, and vaping is a healthier alternative, I do not want to compromise on quality.
DIY is a saving, but even if it works out more than what I used to spend on sigarettes, my first consideration is the health of my family (all of us)

Like other said above, once you start enjoying this, there is no turning back.


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## SAVaper (21/7/16)

Wanted to add, avoid anything that is not clearly labelled. Avoid concentrates that are not from a reputable manufacturer. (lots of info on the forum). Stick to the reputable vendors active on this forum and you will do great.
Don't get too upset with the initial failures. That will happen.
Start with the recipes that guys place on the forum and read the comments.

Some I like are:
A simple Strawberry custard that I've made consisted of:

7% Strawberry Ripe
4% Vanilla Custard...

If you looking for a nice creamy mint

Creme de Menthe( TFA) 7%
Koolada (TFA) 1% 
Menthol 0.5%...

Hertzoggie


Sweet Coconut (FLV) - 4 %
Coconut Extra (TFA) (optional) - 0.4 %
Cookie (FA) - 2 %...

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## 786country (21/7/16)

Trashcanman3284 said:


> My two cents as a new DIYer. Everything said above is what I've experienced so far. LOTS of trial and error, LOTS of notes, and quite a bit of crap liquid mixed. I started by just buying a few concentrates without really having looked at many recipes and ended up with some dissapointing results. One cherry menthol concoction of mine can be sold to clean ovens. Then looked at recipes I thought would be a nice vape and bought concentrates accordingly. The results were mixed, but it did teach me loads. The catch for me is the time factor. Not only the steeping time, but the actual time spent mixing. My calculations are currently sitting between R35 to R45 per 30ml depending on the number of concentrates used and % flavour.


Lol I made a cherry with candy cane also.. Needless to say but the flavour was awful also.. 

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

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## Karel (22/7/16)

Guys

Wow!!!! I never considered DIYing, but after reading all of the DIY threads, that is all I want to do now.... Lol. So next month, I am going to start with this DIY project... But all of the Forums about DIY stuff is so overwhelming. So I got a good vendor (valley vapours) to get concentrates from now, checked. Thank you. My problem now is, there are too many recipes and as you guys said now, there are just so many recipes.

So if I may ask, what recipes would you guys suggest If I tell you that my favourite e-juice at this moment is Kryptonite (cosmic fog), Neon Crème (Cosmic Fog), Cinnaps (Teardrip Juice co) Apple cinnamon flavour. I love fruity flavours though. And sometime I enjoy other flavours like Earningston Hemingway (Craft Vape) etc...


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## SAVaper (22/7/16)

Karel said:


> Guys
> 
> Wow!!!! I never considered DIYing, but after reading all of the DIY threads, that is all I want to do now.... Lol. So next month, I am going to start with this DIY project... But all of the Forums about DIY stuff is so overwhelming. So I got a good vendor (valley vapours) to get concentrates from now, checked. Thank you. My problem now is, there are too many recipes and as you guys said now, there are just so many recipes.
> 
> So if I may ask, what recipes would you guys suggest If I tell you that my favourite e-juice at this moment is Kryptonite (cosmic fog), Neon Crème (Cosmic Fog), Cinnaps (Teardrip Juice co) Apple cinnamon flavour. I love fruity flavours though. And sometime I enjoy other flavours like Earningston Hemingway (Craft Vape) etc...



Awesome @Karel and enjoy.
Sorry I can't help you with the question as I have never tasked any of the ones you mention.

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## PsiSan (22/7/16)

@Karel sorry bud, have not tried any of those juices so wont even know where to begin

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## Soutie (22/7/16)

Got my DIY Kit on Wednesday and I'll tell you exactly what the catch is.... Looking at the bottles at the back of my cupboard and knowing I cant touch them for the better part of another week, Especially seeing as it is starting to smell so good in there.

I ended up springing for a scale and I'm glad I did because mixing up was as easy as falling over backwards. I can easily see how painful it would be without one though.

Now if the juices taste half as good as the reviews I have read on the recipes (and the wafts of flavor i get when shaking these bottles) it will really be worth the initial investment and a HUGE money saver in the long run.

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## Glytch (22/7/16)

Soutie said:


> Got my DIY Kit on Wednesday and I'll tell you exactly what the catch is.... Looking at the bottles at the back of my cupboard and knowing I cant touch them for the better part of another week, Especially seeing as it is starting to smell so good in there.
> 
> I ended up springing for a scale and I'm glad I did because mixing up was as easy as falling over backwards. I can easily see how painful it would be without one though.
> 
> Now if the juices taste half as good as the reviews I have read on the recipes (and the wafts of flavor i get when shaking these bottles) it will really be worth the initial investment and a HUGE money saver in the long run.


What did you make? What's the steep time.

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## Soutie (22/7/16)

Made the mustard milk clone to start with, nice simple recipe (2 flavors) and supposedly delicious, couple of weeks steep time though. Also tried my hand at the sucker punch clone as well as Wild, Ripe 'n Juicy.  They all seemed pretty simple to make and perfect for cutting my teeth on. Then when i ordered Blck vapour had all the ingredients for Rhodonite so decided to take the plunge and try something harder. was surprisingly easy with the scale (Not for beginners I hear but fortune favors the brave) 

Also made a whole batch of 5ml testing bottles trying a few ideas out so pretty chuffed all in all. I think the difficulty comes in when you are balancing your own flavors, but that's the fun i'm looking forward to.

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## Glytch (22/7/16)

Did you shake and vape any of the wild, ripe and juicy? I'd be interested to know how it tastes.

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## Soutie (22/7/16)

Glytch said:


> Did you shake and vape any of the wild, ripe and juicy? I'd be interested to know how it tastes.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk



Yeah I did but wouldnt advise it. This is pretty much my take on it so far:

Shake and vape - Overpowering peach, almost purfumey so. Didn't enjoy the throat hit either.
1 day - Peach still in overpowering, purfumey flavor gone. throat hit now manageable.
2 days - peach has blended really nicely with the strawberry, hints of blueberry are starting to appear. quite vapable at this point and very little throat hit. Really enjoyable.

looking forward to trying it tomorrow. its just getting better and better quickly.

the Rhodonite is the other one I've tried so far. didn't shake and vape but at 1 day I was getting a very nutty flavor overpowering the entire flavour, this morning I'm getting the Raspberry coming through nicely, still no apple though. I think one more day on this it will be magic.

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## Glytch (22/7/16)

Great feedback. Thanks

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## Puff the Magic Dragon (22/7/16)

Something else to think about. We DIYers are buying all of our ingredients at retail prices (at least most of us ). Imagine how cheaply we could make juices if we were buying at wholesale prices...... makes you think about high profits being made by others !!!

With a little experience under my belt I can mix up a couple of 30ml bottles in under 10 mins. 

Go on GLYTCH start DIYing. You won't regret it. Be careful with the nic strength. As far as the rest is concerned it is really easy to make good juice. I agree with the comments made by RICHJB, keep it simple in the beginning.

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## Puff the Magic Dragon (22/7/16)

If we are truly serious about helping people get off the stinkies we have to reduce costs. A close friend started vaping but quit because of the cost of juice. I Vape around 20ml per day. A new vaper (probably buying coils at R30 a pop) and paying high prices for juice has little financial interest in giving up the analogues.

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## Warlock (23/7/16)

I agree with you absolutely @Puff the Magic Dragon. This is why we have to get into DIY juices and recoiling.

Also look at @Glytch ‘s post on “look what I found".


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## kev mac (23/7/16)

Glytch said:


> Thanks for the reply. Cost is the main factor for me. I have a budget of R700pm for coils and juice. I'm moving from a Twisp to a iStick Pico 75W + Melo 3 and I've read that sub-ohm tanks eat through liquid. I want to stay within budget with the new device so I'm looking at DIYing my juice.


@Glytch @Warlock , as it has been said diy can be fun and rewarding though it does take some trial and error but if You copy all the recipes available on this forum and on line you'll get some very vapeable juice.start with simple two flavor recipes like tobacco and menthol.Have fun with it! The savings are incredible.

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## RichJB (23/7/16)

Puff and Warlock, I think juice consumption is something the vaping industry will need to look at with some urgency. The Royal College of Physicians said that it wanted to encourage innovation and development in vaping gear. The industry has certainly done that in the past few years. However, the design trend has been towards higher wattages, lower resistances, higher temps, more/bigger coils, thirstier tanks and exponentially increasing juice consumption. I'm not sure that's the development direction the Royal College had in mind.

The vaping industry keeps bragging about the "billion lives" that can be saved. However, it is well known that most of those billion smokers are in the developing world, and most are among the lower income groups. Vaping 30ml of commercial juice per day, which seems to be rapidly becoming the norm with high-end vaping gear, will cost around R150 per day. A smoker can smoke 120 cigarettes a day for that cost.

I think we can accept that DIY juicing and coiling will never be mainstream, it will always be the domain of the enthusiast rather than the masses. So are the vaping manufacturers not pricing themselves out of their implied mission of saving hundreds of millions of lives? I think there is scope for a two-tiered vaping community in which the vast majority use the 1-2ml per day Twisps and cigalikes made by big tobacco, with a minority of relatively wealthy enthusiasts going for the type of vaping gear that we enjoy.

But then we should maybe accept that the involvement of big tobacco isn't necessarily a bad thing. For one thing, big tobacco has a lot of experience of pricing their products for mass global consumption. They have been doing it for decades, after all. If they can price their cigalikes that it remains affordable for smokers to quit tobacco, even if they can't afford the commercial juice that high-end vaping gear consumes, that won't necessarily be a bad thing.

I think the vaping manufacturers, Joyetech/Eleaf et al, have to look carefully at their business model. It's been blue skies up to now. It's a new industry and there are plenty of relatively wealthy early adopters who are willing to spend much more on commercial juice than they did on smoking. But that market segment, as a percentage of smokers globally, is relatively small. So the dedicated high-end vaping market is going to hit its ceiling quite quickly. Big tobacco will pitch a far more affordable lower-juice-consumption model and they will kill the dedicated vaping companies in terms of market share and turnover.

Vaping companies don't seem too business-savvy at the moment. One looks at how Sigelei responded to the 213 mod issue and it becomes clear that PR and marketing is not their forte. They will need to develop those skills very quickly if they want to compete with big tobacco.

The other aspect - and this is a huge threat to the dedicated high-end vaping industry - is the risk of a few high-profile domestic nicotine poisoning cases, and regulators issuing a kneejerk prohibition on the sale and storage of nicotine at home. If that happens, we are royally screwed. Even at my very moderate consumption of 6ml of juice per day, commercial juice would cost me R30 daily. That is 50% more than I was spending on smoking. And that's without the cost of mods, tanks, batteries. The industry needs to tread very very carefully. It's blue skies now but the situation might not persist.

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## Warlock (23/7/16)

Yes @RichJB, I so agree with everything you said in your analysis. I’m hardly qualified to argue the point as eloquently as you have, but thank you for doing it and thank you for putting it on this forum. I hope everyone on the forum will read this and it will filter through to the manufacturers and suppliers of vaping gear and e-liquids in this country for starters.

I have marvelled at the cost of the hardware that we are using (for instance, how can a RDA possibly cost on average over R500?) and agree with you that the daily cost of juice may be more than the cost of cigarettes.

I’m still in the ‘enviable’ position that I am profiting from vaping because I was a heavy smoker. I am also terrified of a ‘kneejerk’ reaction in South Africa similar to the Pennsylvanian extortion tax which would force me back to tobacco cigarettes.

This is why I am pursuing with vigour the reduction of costs to me of e-liquids, because the hardware I can make myself


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## Spydro (23/7/16)

RichJB said:


> Puff and Warlock, I think juice consumption is something the vaping industry will need to look at with some urgency. The Royal College of Physicians said that it wanted to encourage innovation and development in vaping gear. The industry has certainly done that in the past few years. However, the design trend has been towards higher wattages, lower resistances, higher temps, more/bigger coils, thirstier tanks and exponentially increasing juice consumption. I'm not sure that's the development direction the Royal College had in mind.
> 
> The vaping industry keeps bragging about the "billion lives" that can be saved. However, it is well known that most of those billion smokers are in the developing world, and most are among the lower income groups. Vaping 30ml of commercial juice per day, which seems to be rapidly becoming the norm with high-end vaping gear, will cost around R150 per day. A smoker can smoke 120 cigarettes a day for that cost.
> 
> ...



Interesting read. It will be interesting to see what the future of vaping becomes. 

Vaping style is a personal thing, from the Tootle Puffers to the Cloud Chasers. There will always be the kiddie cruisers and those hopelessly spiraling into vaping overdose. +1 on the overdose here. I'm not a cloud chaser, but do use up a lot of juice like they do with my long lung draws and favored low sub ohm big coil dual builds.

But vaping is what I do, 24/7/365, mostly all I do now so the cost to vape has been irrelevant to me. I've spent well over four times on vaping what smoking stinkies and pipes was costing me when I stopped about 3.5 years ago. Most was spent on high end gear that I still have but don't use much of anymore. Was just the long path it took to find the gear I like the best. But when I took a break from doing DIY for about a year I also bought hundreds of 30ml or larger bottles of premade liquids as well at the high prices they were sold for. I used about 30-35ml per day/night on average in my Reos about 4 months ago. But now days it's easily double that since I joined this forum and bought a bunch of TC Mods/tanks ran with lower builds at higher wattage that go thru joose like it's going out of style. But since I DIY and extract some of my own NEF's for almost all of my liquids, even that higher usage of juice is really quite cheap. I get great prices on the few concentrates I still buy getting them in larger sizes, the NEF's cost me next to nothing to make but some time. I don't use nicotine in my DIY liquids, so I can make 1000ml of joose for about $15-$20 US. With more gear than I could ever use, vaping has become quite cheap now that I'm mostly mostly only using DIY liquids and all but done buying vape gear.


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## Silver (23/7/16)

Very interesting comments above

In my view vaping is still in a relatively infant stage. Penetration of the addressable market (mainly smokers) is still extremely low.

I agree that the enthusiastic fringe of the market is developing toward higher power thirsty setups that may not be everyone's cup of tea.

But there is another side to vaping - ie the lower powered setups. They may be less popular here on the forum but i do agree they represent a big part of the market and appeal to the masses. I also hope more devlopment and improvement takes place in this area.

It does come down to personal preference. I love nothing more than a mild "tootle puff" in the mornings on my little Evod with some 18mg fruity menthol juices. And most of my vaping is at relatively low power on the Reo/RM2, the Subtank Mini and the Lemo1. The occasional bigger cloud session on a much higher powered dripper is not a frequent thing in my vaping. Sometimes its nice but mostly I dont really need or want it. But thats my preference.

I am so happy that the local vendors have taken the bull by the horns and developed the market the way they have. And many of them have created unbelievably great businesses from nothing. That takes guts and lots of business savvy. Long may this continue because we all benefit from it - through more choice and availability. Compare where we are now versus just two years ago. Night and day difference.

*I think vaping is here to stay!*

The main thing for me is that I feel much better vaping than smoking. Its nice to read the research that is generally in support of vaping, but I look at my own experience over the past 2.5 years. I dont have a tight chest and my training is better. I dont stink and i feel happy i am reducing my risk of getting a life threatening disease from the stinkies.

On the cost issue, i have spent way more than I needed to, but its been part of the journey. And its been a wonderful one to go through. I do spend a lot less nowadays. But in any case, a few thousand here and there on vaping is but a penny compared to the cost of treating some smoking related illnesses.

Bottom line -> Vaping for the win
Extra bottom line -> our local vendors are tops

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## RichJB (23/7/16)

Agreed, Silver. I think any new industry goes through a learning curve and also a honeymoon period where there were no customers before, so every convert from smoking is a new customer and the industry sees explosive growth. I'm also impressed that, despite not being subject to any international standards, the vaping industry was able to standardise on, for example, the 510 connector. An inability to agree on standards is what holds many industries back but vaping has overcome that. Can you imagine what a nightmare it would be if, say, Smok had their own proprietary connector that only fitted their mods and tanks but nobody else's?

I think there is scope for a broad range of vaping gear too. There will always be a market for octuple-coil heads, triple-cell 300W mods and 60ml of juice consumption a day. I don't think it will ever be the mainstream market but there will be a niche for it. Just as there will always be a market for cigalikes and Twisp products. It's the most easily-learned and accessible device for a new user.

I look forward eagerly to seeing how the vaping technology changes. If we look at audio recording as an analogy, the first devices were huge, heavy reel-to-reel 8 track recorders where just getting the thing to play entailed lacing the tape through the magnetic heads and rollers and was quite a mission. Those were improved to 8-track cassettes and 4-track cassettes before CD was introduced. And then mp3 hard drive recording became the universal standard, where there was no recording media at all.

I'm thinking that we will see an equivalent curve in vaping. Who knows, in ten years we might be sitting here laughing and saying "Jeez, can you remember the days when we had to build coils and faff around with cotton wicks?" Let's face it, cutting up little strips of cotton, rolling the end, poking it through a metal coil, prodding it down into a slot with a pair of tweezers and then pouring juice on it is the Stone Age. It sounds more like 1916 than 2016.

I foresee box mods being the way to go. However, the box mod will talk to your smart phone and your iWatch, and you will be able to set vapour temperature, flavour and nic strength, cloud size via touch-screen sliders on a display on your phone. I think the juice and coil/wick will be in a little cartridge, much like an inkjet printer cartridge. You'll buy your cartridge, just plug it into the box mode, do the settings on your phone, and off you go. When the cartridge is finished, just pop out and replace. I cannot see any other way that vaping will ever become mainstream to the extent that smoking has been. The mainstream want stuff that is easy.

When Hon Lik developed the first e-cig, he tried and discarded ultrasound as a means to vaporise the liquid. We assume that battery-powered heating will prevail to vaporise but I'm not sure it will. I'm sure there must be alternative technologies. Having to charge batteries every single day is a major PITA for most users. I'm sure technology will find something easier. Who knows, we may even find box mods with inbuilt micro solar panels or somesuch in the future.

The sky is the limit with this technology. We are right at the beginning and we assume that the current gear is about as convenient or efficient as it's going to get. Just like early audio fans assumed that the 8-track reel-to-reel recorder was as good as it was going to get. They were surprised. I think we will be too. I'd love to hop into a time machine and see what vape gear will look like in ten years' time.

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## Silver (23/7/16)

Loved reading that @RichJB 
You are right about the mainstream wanting it easy to use
And prodding coils is far from that 

Its going to be very interesting and exciting indeed

Wonder if Hon Lik thought we would be where we are now !


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## Warlock (25/7/16)

Ok I got most of everything I needed to start the DIY e-liquids. Made the Mustard Milk and Sucker Punch as well. All easy to make with a scale ( found an itsy one at the Chinese mall for R80.00). Turns off after one minute so you gotta be quick. I made a few others as well--- Blue PS and a watermelon and menthol (8% and 2%). Everything 5% nicotine 30% PG and 70% VG. All flavours are TFA from Skyblue vaping.

The point is I’m having fun and it is cheap (not the flavours but everything else).No more paying over R100.00 for 30ml.

The most expensive one I made used 5 flavours (one was Koolada---not cheap) and worked out to R34.68 for 30ml.

Using max 15ml per day.

All this would not have happened without the good people on this forum and their informative posts and encouragements.

Big thanks all

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## Glytch (25/7/16)

Warlock said:


> Ok I got most of everything I needed to start the DIY e-liquids. Made the Mustard Milk and Sucker Punch as well. All easy to make with a scale ( found an itsy one at the Chinese mall for R80.00). Turns off after one minute so you gotta be quick. I made a few others as well--- Blue PS and a watermelon and menthol (8% and 2%). Everything 5% nicotine 30% PG and 70% VG. All flavours are TFA from Skyblue vaping.
> 
> The point is I’m having fun and it is cheap (not the flavours but everything else).No more paying over R100.00 for 30ml.
> 
> ...


Awesome. Getting my stuff later this week! Can't wait to get started.

Tasted anything yet? What are the steep time on those recipes? Links to them?


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## Warlock (25/7/16)

Not a clue on the steeping time, @Glytch, but I am tasting as I go and everything I've made is vapable. Life would be easier if I had a dripper, so I could taste smaller quantities, now I just suffer through the not-so-good ones  
I'm not too clued up on posting links (I was born BC), but if you look up 'eJuice Me Up', they have a very neat e-juice calculator and hundreds and hundreds of recipes. http://www.breaktru.com. 
Hope that helps.


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## Warlock (25/7/16)

Remember you can vape vg on its own, so if you have a bad tasting concoction you just drown the taste with vg.


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## Puff the Magic Dragon (26/7/16)

Very pleased you have started DIY. R 25 - R 35 per 30ml. It's a no-brainer...and can even be fun. I find it hard to believe that some pay R 175 per 30ml. 

As I said in an earlier post we are paying retail for our DIY ingredients. Imagine how little it actually costs when paying wholesale prices !


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## Warlock (27/7/16)

More feedback, The Mustard Milk works out at R1.08 per ml (R32.48 for 30ml). Two flavours.

The Sucker Punch Clone at R1.43 per ml (R42.78 for 30ml). Three flavours, one of which is Dragon Fruit at 14% by volume.

But even then it is all still very economical.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Thanks 1


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## Soutie (27/7/16)

Depends on your Nic Level there Warlock. Mustard Milk could be as low as R17 for 30Ml if you are running at 0 Nic.

this gets even cheaper when you start playing with FA Flavours.

All the more reason for me to get onto a lower Nicotine level as soon as I can

Reactions: Like 1


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## Soutie (27/7/16)

Soutie said:


> the Rhodonite is the other one I've tried so far. didn't shake and vape but at 1 day I was getting a very nutty flavor overpowering the entire flavour, this morning I'm getting the Raspberry coming through nicely, still no apple though. I think one more day on this it will be magic.



Bit more feedback on this too. I see it was mentioned that an overnight steep was recommended on the DIYorDIE site but It was still quite nutty till about day three and honestly didn't like the stuff much at all, I thought I had wasted my money. Day four comes around and man it was a whole different kettle of fish. This stuff is better than good, the wife wont vape anything else at this point and I find this is becoming my ADV very quickly. I Had to make another 200ml last night.

Maybe one of the more experienced guys can help: Any reason that the steep took so much longer than recommended. Perhaps I didn't shake it enough? I was shaking it daily and letting it air.


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## PsiSan (27/7/16)

@Soutie, did you give it a warm (not hot) bath? The cold winter can slow down steeping

Reactions: Thanks 1


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## Soutie (27/7/16)

PsiSan said:


> @Soutie, did you give it a warm (not hot) bath? The cold winter can slow down steeping



No I didn't. I thought my warm, loving hands would be enough. Didn't think of it but it Makes sense though that the cold snap we have been going through would slow down the steeping process, thanks @PsiSan.

Do you recommend champagne and Barry White for that warm bah?


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## Andre (27/7/16)

Soutie said:


> Bit more feedback on this too. I see it was mentioned that an overnight steep was recommended on the DIYorDIE site but It was still quite nutty till about day three and honestly didn't like the stuff much at all, I thought I had wasted my money. Day four comes around and man it was a whole different kettle of fish. This stuff is better than good, the wife wont vape anything else at this point and I find this is becoming my ADV very quickly. I Had to make another 200ml last night.
> 
> Maybe one of the more experienced guys can help: Any reason that the steep took so much longer than recommended. Perhaps I didn't shake it enough? I was shaking it daily and letting it air.


I cure all my mixes for at least a week (longer for tobaccos) as a matter of course to make sure all flavours integrate well. I shake very well after mixing and then only gently once a day thereafter (if I remember). I never let out air other than for a few seconds when I am ready to taste.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Warlock (27/7/16)

@Soutie I'm still mixing at 5% nicotine and useing TFA. I haven't tried FA flavours yet but will endeavour too do so soon. Thanks for the heads-up on this.


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## PsiSan (27/7/16)

@Soutie, not to familiar with champagne, but from what I have read it does help bring out some notes. Just not boiling water please hahaha. Unfortunately loving hands only brings us so far lol! Lemme know how it turns out

Reactions: Thanks 1


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## Soutie (27/7/16)

Andre said:


> I cure all my mixes for at least a week (longer for tobaccos) as a matter of course to make sure all flavours integrate well. I shake very well after mixing and then only gently once a day thereafter (if I remember). I never let out air other than for a few seconds when I am ready to taste.



Yeah I've noticed that pretty much everything needs to steep at least a little. Even when i the recipe says "shake 'n vape" it just doesn't taste right till about a day or so after. I usually let the air out daily (I read that somewhere) so it will be interesting to see if that makes a difference. Maybe i should make 2 * 10ml and treat them exactly the same other than recycling the air on one, for a week or so and see if there is a difference.



Warlock said:


> @Soutie I'm still mixing at 5% nicotine and useing TFA. I haven't tried FA flavours yet but will endeavour too do so soon. Thanks for the heads-up on this.



Ive only just started playing with the DIY but FA seems to need a helluva lot less flavoring then TFA/CAP. It comes down to about 4-8 % total flavor for FA rather than the 15-20% that TFA needs, and some of the FA flavors are Really nice too, the Fuji apple is yum.

Reactions: Like 2


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