# A short tale of vape advertising in America



## Spydro (16/9/16)

In early 2013 I first heard of this thing called vaping via some TV commercials for Blu cig-a-likes. That was the only TV commercials about vaping I saw then, no others. Gradually a few others cropped up, also for cig-a-likes.

Then they stopped completely.

Now with the battle for vaping ongoing in the US some Big Tobacco companies are running TV commercials *a lot* for gear from companies that they own. What I'd call mostly small pen USB style gear and sometimes offering free starter kits. A couple from one in particular is going to be very expensive to use since you have to get the small capacity prefilled juice cartridges from them that are not reuseable, another model they have that you have to buy precharged power capsules for, and the one use and throw away cig-a-likes.

Seen most often is commercials for the Logic Pro, and another device under the O2PUR name.

The wave of the future in the US maybe, or maybe not. Only time will tell.

Another interesting twist... commercials about stopping the use of tobacco/smoking is at an all time high I've ever seen on TV.

Reactions: Like 2 | Informative 5


----------



## stevie g (16/9/16)

Do you think this approach has anything sinister behind it like selling weak devices that don't offer satisfaction?. 

Or do you think the eliquid solution is something special using for instance nicotine salts etc?.


----------



## Spydro (16/9/16)

Logically since it is Big Tobacco it is dark, but their why's would just be speculation. They have the inside track on the battle with politicians in their back pocket, so maybe they know some things the rest of us don't (yet). The given is that Big Tobacco and the politicians are dirty though and will play an underhanded or even illegal game for the almighty buck. 

Regardless they are getting a foot in the door with sales to folks new to vaping that may not be informed on the battle going on here, and/or to folks expecting the worst to come out of it... to help make up for the big money they are loosing in tobacco sales to vaping.


----------



## Clouds4Days (16/9/16)

This is in deed very interesting @Spydro ,
The only adds we see on tv about vaping is twisp but its not that offten you will see a add.
And regards to smoking there was a add doing the rounds a while back but that stopped.

I dont think our country cares much for having anti smoking campaigns etc...
And if they do the budget for it is probably right at the bottom of the list.

We (goverment offecials) are more concerned in building fire pools for our president to protect his family incase they get hot from the sun they can cool off in the fire pool 

I laugh but it is really sad.
They say the cure for sadness is laughter so....

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## Nicholas (16/9/16)

Sprint said:


> Do you think this approach has anything sinister behind it like selling weak devices that don't offer satisfaction?.
> 
> Or do you think the eliquid solution is something special using for instance nicotine salts etc?.



You on to something, i mean back in 2013 i tried quitting the smokes and tried one of those 02PUR type things and i was back on the smokes in a week and almost gave up on vaping for good. 

so i mean the big tobacco companies can afford to waste money on a device that will ultimately send you back on the stinkies for good.


----------



## RichJB (16/9/16)

I think big tobacco is really the only sector that can afford TV advertising. If Kanger, Smok, etc could advertise, they would. They don't have the budget of RJR, BAT and the others.


----------



## Spydro (16/9/16)

Clouds4Days said:


> This is in deed very interesting @Spydro ,
> The only adds we see on tv about vaping is twisp but its not that offten you will see a add.
> And regards to smoking there was a add doing the rounds a while back but that stopped.
> 
> ...



Tobacco smoking has been declining here for decades when in the 50's it was about 45% of the US population. During WW II very few men and women in the military did not take up smoking - the US even included Lucky Strikes in their rations overseas in war zones. My dad started smoking while fighting in the Marshall Isklands, to take Iwo Jima and Nagasaki. Same with Korea I'd bet (an uncle started while serving there), and it was the same for military when I served for Vietnam (I had smoked for years before then though). Now days only around 18% of the population smokes here, but in some tobacco growing states as many as 30% still smoke. So right now there is something like 45 million US smokers and an estimated 10-15 million US vapers (and the use of weed has significantly increased here the last 10-15 years). Doing the math up to 22%-33% that big tobacco is losing in tobacco sales to vaping. Only "about" though because an unknown number stops smoking but does not take up vaping. Even so a very significant loss of profits for tobacco companies. Also a lot of younger folks tape up vaping instead of smoking tobacco, more lost profits.

Vaping a "pen" device can be very similar to smoking tobacco. But the folks that don't go past that to APV's might not have any idea what they are missing. If the battle were to be lost here these devices may be all that will be available to new vapers... and there would be a serious black market for APV's.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2


----------



## RichJB (16/9/16)

80% of the world's smokers come from just ten countries, and they are countries in the low to middle income bracket with China as the obvious largest market. In addition, most smokers in wealthy countries are from the lowest income groups. In developed world populations, the rate of smoking among the poorest 20% is double what it is among the wealthiest 20%. So of the world's one billion smokers, only about 50-100 million can afford to vape. That is the market that the vaping industry (Smok, Aspire, Eleaf/Joyetech/Wismec, Kanger, Sigelei, etc) is aiming for. Big tobacco is aiming for the rest. 

A manual labourer in Asia or Africa will be able to afford a disposable cigalike. He will never ever be able to afford a mod, tank, 18650, and then R100 a day for commercial juice. Many of these smokers don't even have electricity at home. You can see it already in the SA demographics. Look at the pics of VapeCon. How many black faces do you see? I don't see any. I see a lot of whites and also many Muslims/Indians but no blacks. Yet blacks are overwhelmingly the biggest demographic of smokers in the country. Why are so few of them vaping? Simple answer: it's too expensive.

The further problem is that vaping is becoming more expensive every year. Two years ago, the average vaping device only used a couple of ml of juice per day. The current generation of octuple-coil, 200W, juice-guzzling tanks can blow through 60ml of juice per day, no sweat. The next generation of gear will use 100ml of juice per day. Then 150ml. This is the vaping industry's business model: juice = profit. So they design gear that uses more and more juice. But, in so doing, they have priced themselves out of being a global smoking solution. 

The tobacco industry have looked at the bigger picture. For a century, they have been refining their pricing model to make cigarettes affordable for the masses. That was the only reason why they could get most of the world hooked on smoking. And it's why smoking rates continue to rise in the developing world. Big tobacco makes smoking affordable for even the poorest of the poor. They will do the same with vaping. Poor people will be able to afford to vape big tobacco cigalikes. They will never be able to afford a DNA200 mod. That is just simple economics.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1 | Useful 1


----------



## stevie g (16/9/16)

Logic Pro capsules only come in 18mg & 24mg strength.

These devices are basically evods with non refillable tanks.

This non refillable cartridge system is going to create so much extra land fill. 

I honestly think that these devices are not good enough for much and too expensive.

America is going to have a large black market everything vape related for a while. Vape advocacy has a mammoth task ahead of themselves if the current open system has a chance to survive.

I feel sorry for Americans and really feel like this is a step sideways and possibly back to the days of Twispalikes for everyone... Just even pricier


----------



## stevie g (16/9/16)

Logic Pro has two battery types, a 300mah & 650mah.

I really think big tobacco's plan is to make ecigs unattractive.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## stevie g (16/9/16)

Wow 3 different flavors... Tobacco, Menthol and Cherry. So predictable.

Brinjals and tomatoes are going to go up in price if people find ways to harvest their nicotine from vegetables, wonder if t will then still be a "tobacco product".

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## RichJB (16/9/16)

Why would they be investing hundreds of millions in a product that they want to fail? Why would they be releasing research which concludes that vaping is far healthier than smoking? Tobacco doesn't want vaping to fail. They only want rival vaping companies to fail. But that is just capitalism at work.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Lord Vetinari (16/9/16)

I am laughing put loud at stupid tobacco companies thinking people wont HACK THE LIVING CRAP out of it. Cue the 200w cigalike and the 'refilling non refillable cartridges' videos!


----------



## Spydro (16/9/16)

Don't count America out yet, the battle is just warming up over here. If you look at this countries history, American's as a whole are rebels when they get pushed too far by anyone. So there is a legal battle being fought, and it can get real ugly before it's over. 

Besides, no matter what the bottom line becomes here "legally", GOV can not stop those of us who already have several lifetimes worth of quality APV gear and make our own liquids. I have enough gear and batt's to see me through for many, many years when just a few is enough to see me to my last day since it's not that far off. Enough gear for many dozens of other people who don't have any if push comes to shove and still leave me with way more than I really need for myself. They can't stop me from extracting my own flavors (NEF's), nor can they stop food grade flavors commonly used for so many other products besides eliquid or VG/PG from being bought here. Nic might be another story, but I don't use nic in my DIY.



RichJB said:


> Why would they be investing hundreds of millions in a product that they want to fail? Why would they be releasing research which concludes that vaping is far healthier than smoking? Tobacco doesn't want vaping to fail. They only want rival vaping companies to fail. But that is just capitalism at work.



Agree. BT wants total control over both tobacco products and vaping (and other unmentionables). They have the money and the dirty politicians to maybe do that here, but neither of them will tame all of the vapers here.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Winner 1


----------



## Lord Vetinari (16/9/16)

Spydro said:


> Don't count America out yet, the battle is just warming up over here. If you look at this countries history, American's as a whole are rebels when they get pushed too far by anyone. So there is a legal battle being fought, and it can get real ugly before it's over.
> 
> Besides, no matter what the bottom line becomes here "legally", GOV can not stop those of us who already have several lifetimes worth of quality APV gear and make our own liquids. I have enough gear and batt's to see me through for many, many years when just a few is enough to see me to my last day since it's not that far off. Enough gear for many dozens of other people who don't have any if push comes to shove and still leave me with way more than I really need for myself. They can't stop me from extracting my own flavors (NEF's), nor can they stop food grade flavors commonly used for so many other products besides eliquid or VG/PG from being bought here. Nic might be another story, but I don't use nic in my DIY.
> 
> ...


You live in a state that was kind enough to listen to canmabis smokers and that is fighting for their rights. As vapers I think you have some serious precedents to work with and build on. I admire the American attitude of governing government. I understand how this is symbolised by your right to bear arms in order to form a malitia when the government needs to be governed. And I respect every way in which this is expressed. I need to visit, never been but I have made on line friends from Maine to Florida to Cali and up to Washington again

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## kev mac (16/9/16)

Spydro said:


> In early 2013 I first heard of this thing called vaping via some TV commercials for Blu cig-a-likes. That was the only TV commercials about vaping I saw then, no others. Gradually a few others cropped up, also for cig-a-likes.
> 
> Then they stopped completely.
> 
> ...


@Spydro ,an astute observation.you may be right about big tobacco introducing inferior vapeing products to frustrate smokers trying to quit.one thing for sure is that our government (and I use the term"our"loosely) is not truly concerned w/ the health of it's citizens but more so the profits of those in the know.God help us!

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## kev mac (16/9/16)

Spydro said:


> Tobacco smoking has been declining here for decades when in the 50's it was about 45% of the US population. During WW II very few men and women in the military did not take up smoking - the US even included Lucky Strikes in their rations overseas in war zones. My dad started smoking while fighting in the Marshall Isklands, to take Iwo Jima and Nagasaki. Same with Korea I'd bet (an uncle started while serving there), and it was the same for military when I served for Vietnam (I had smoked for years before then though). Now days only around 18% of the population smokes here, but in some tobacco growing states as many as 30% still smoke. So right now there is something like 45 million US smokers and an estimated 10-15 million US vapers (and the use of weed has significantly increased here the last 10-15 years). Doing the math up to 22%-33% that big tobacco is losing in tobacco sales to vaping. Only "about" though because an unknown number stops smoking but does not take up vaping. Even so a very significant loss of profits for tobacco companies. Also a lot of younger folks tape up vaping instead of smoking tobacco, more lost profits.
> 
> Vaping a "pen" device can be very similar to smoking tobacco. But the folks that don't go past that to APV's might not have any idea what they are missing. If the battle were to be lost here these devices may be all that will be available to new vapers... and there would be a serious black market for APV's.


I agree with you,as a youngster growing up in the 60s it was hard to find non-smokers.It was a right of passage and we were inundated by commercials and media.Also when do you think the big tobacco co.will take the lead with weed?


----------



## Lord Vetinari (16/9/16)

kev mac said:


> @Spydro ,an astute observation.you may be right about big tobacco introducing inferior vapeing products to frustrate smokers trying to quit.one thing for sure is that our government (and I use the term"our"loosely) is not truly concerned w/ the health of it's citizens but more so the profits of those in the know.God help us!


I have shitty news for you then. Our health minister blurbed on about wanting to follow Australia's example. Total BAN on nicotine. Actually, I think he said something about wanting to compete and be MORE hard core. I am personally HOPING we go the American route. If it is a choice between that and Australia, please, Gods, let us be like the USA!

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## kev mac (16/9/16)

Spydro said:


> Don't count America out yet, the battle is just warming up over here. If you look at this countries history, American's as a whole are rebels when they get pushed too far by anyone. So there is a legal battle being fought, and it can get real ugly before it's over.
> 
> Besides, no matter what the bottom line becomes here "legally", GOV can not stop those of us who already have several lifetimes worth of quality APV gear and make our own liquids. I have enough gear and batt's to see me through for many, many years when just a few is enough to see me to my last day since it's not that far off. Enough gear for many dozens of other people who don't have any if push comes to shove and still leave me with way more than I really need for myself. They can't stop me from extracting my own flavors (NEF's), nor can they stop food grade flavors commonly used for so many other products besides eliquid or VG/PG from being bought here. Nic might be another story, but I don't use nic in my DIY.
> 
> ...


Amen to that brother!


----------



## Spydro (17/9/16)

FogFace said:


> You live in a state that was kind enough to listen to canmabis smokers and that is fighting for their rights. As vapers I think you have some serious precedents to work with and build on. I admire the American attitude of governing government. I understand how this is symbolised by your right to bear arms in order to form a malitia when the government needs to be governed. And I respect every way in which this is expressed. I need to visit, never been but I have made on line friends from Maine to Florida to Cali and up to Washington again



Nevada has always had a pretty high tolerance level for things that few other states would look the other way on. I well remember the days of no maximum posted legal speed limits on highways where if your car could do 150mph or more you could do it legally on roads not built for those speeds. Nevada is still a state of LONG lonely highways that in some places are so straight that you can go 30 miles or more without turning the steering wheel. I got pursued once for going around 165mph on a two lane highway... way back in the early-mid 60's when after pulling away from the LE that pulled out to pursue me for around 35 miles I stopped to buy a cold drink and wait to see if he was still chasing me. I was many miles ahead of him when I pulled over... but he finally showed up at his full speed, locked the brakes and skidded way past me, came back but just wanted to see what I had under the hood of my hot rod. Same with prostitution, drinking/smoking ages, etc. We still have legal prostitution, not all places card for drinking/smoking age and they still look the other way on speeding in Vegas most of the time if you are not driving reckless thru traffic. For a small fee to some 3rd party folks here they can get most driving tickets even with high fines changed to small fine parking tickets here in Vegas that don't show up on your driving record at all. Just don't speed in a school zone or construction zone where the fine that is already high is also doubled, and they do prosecute.

You can vape almost anywhere in Vegas except gov buildings and in some casino areas, especially if you are courteous enough to ask first. Includes the airport, at private businesses that don't post against it, etc... at my doctors office even that is in a gov building. But legal recreational use of cannabis is still not legal here. They just finally opened legal medical weed dispensaries last year despite the state legalizing med weed way back in 2000. The bills to legalize recreational weed/hashish will be voted on this November. No idea if they'll pass, but not many residents here care if folks use it. I don't use it, not since the 60's, but around here it is easier for youngsters to buy than over the counter cigarettes.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


----------



## Spydro (17/9/16)

kev mac said:


> I agree with you,as a youngster growing up in the 60s it was hard to find non-smokers.It was a right of passage and we were inundated by commercials and media.Also when do you think the big tobacco co.will take the lead with weed?



Well remember the 50's when I first started smoking and drinking and the endless cigarette, beer and liquor commercials on radio and TV, and those posted on roadside billboards and the sides of buildings everywhere for tobacco and alcoholic beverages. With the 60's it was condoms and BC pills as well...

Weed is one of the "unmentionables" I referred to about Big Tobacco above.


----------



## Spydro (18/9/16)

Random thoughts on another twist I thought of... 

Commercials about tobacco products still remains a no-no in the US. The once frowned upon commercials for alcohol products is again alive and well but are only from some select companies when endless others do not do TV commercials at all. Mostly from beer and liquor companies when wine companies used to do endless commercials as well. But across the board all of them to a lessor degree than years ago. IOW, a few of the once big guns in TV advertising still do them, but at a very small percentage of what they once did. While some are from very big beer and liquor companies that can easily afford the cost of nation wide commercials, some are also from small local companies that can afford to do endless commercials on TV as well. IE, there is a local liquor retailer here, Lee's Discount Liquors, an Asian family owned business with 19 large stores in the Las Vegas area that runs endless commercials day and night on many local cable channels. So they can obviously afford the local air time that is far less costly than on the national level. I'm guessing that some alcohol products are so well known and commonly used here in the US that the companies that produce them don't feel they need to spend the big bucks for TV commercials to keep the sales volume and profits up. 

Alcohol commercials are not ran along with sports programs when they used to be to the point that some sporting events were even sponsored by these alcohol products companies. Was the same decades ago with tobacco products. So both tobacco and alcohol are still taboo associated with sports. Sporting event commercials are quite costly, like with the Super Bowl when a 30 second commercial costs $4.5-5 million every time one is aired prior to, during and following the event. 

Big Tobacco can afford to do whatever they want to do. So it will be interesting to see what these vape gear commercials lead to here.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## RichJB (18/9/16)

My understanding of the FDA's regulations on vaping is that advertising is allowed, but that health warnings will have to be included in 2018 after the two-year 'window period' has passed. The warning must read: “WARNING: This product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical.” 

Ads can't make health claims about vaping. So ads like this one will not be allowed after 2018:



I think the vaping industry (Innokin, Smok, Aspire et al) are fighting a losing battle trying to convince the public that "vaping isn't big tobacco". That is not how broader society sees it. To illustrate, here is an excerpt from a Bloomberg article on vaping advertising:



> New Food and Drug Administration rules published today will bar the sale of electronic cigarettes to minors and require manufacturers to add labels warning that nicotine is addictive.
> 
> But the tobacco industry scored a massive win as well. The regulation, years in the making, doesn’t yet clamp down on advertising for electronic cigarettes, permitting e-cig ads to remain on television, billboards, and other forums where traditional cigarette ads have been largely banned for years.



If a mainstream publication like Bloomberg cites the continuation of vaping advertising as a massive win for the tobacco industry, then vapers had best forget trying to convince society that vaping and big tobacco are unconnected.


----------



## StangV2_0 (20/9/16)

Interesting read this. Wish I could have been there when that cop wanted to know what was under the hood  

Morale of the story.. Hold onto your good mods. Dont be so keen to let them go. I have a bunch of mech mods etc I will never let go. The market for them is so small now days with all these high output regulated box mods they not worth trying to sell. And they bullet proof! 

And on a side note.. I am really hoping that "A Billion Lives" makes alot of ppl take a closer look at what is happening in the ecigg industry. 


Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk


----------

