# Bat Bought Twisp



## Imotions (6/6/14)

Howsit guys just heard British American Tobacco just bought Twisp off wats ur views would it change the way people look at vaping or e cigs seeing they are the monsters of the tobacco industry

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## shabbar (6/6/14)

hopefully we get a nice tobacco flavour

Reactions: Funny 5


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## soonkia (6/6/14)

Not the first vape company to be brought by big tobacco. They know that "Vaping is the Future, and the Future is now"

The Good Side - Tobacco companies are used to dealing with governments and lobbying them - so we have much better chance of laws are going to be less stringent.

The Bad Side: Tobacco companies are used to dealing with strict regulation, and they might actually push for stricter regulation on e-cigs. Think about it, if it cost you R10 000 000+ to create one new flavour of e-liquid, would anybody other than them really be in the position to make eliquid? So, they might push for stronger regulation to strangle competition.

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## phanatik (6/6/14)

Would they not want to buy e-cig companies to regulate and control the use and distribution of it?

I don't think large tobacco companies suddenly changing their tune to support e-cigs would be viable to the tobacco industry.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## crack2483 (6/6/14)

Could it not just be strategic? Besides the regulations etc etc, if you losing market share, just buy out you competition. 

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## phanatik (6/6/14)

I think the losses they would incur if e-cig go mainstream would be far greater than the profits that they would gain from it. 
Think the tobacco plantations etc etc

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## Robert Howes (6/6/14)

Would those tobacco plantations not be making nicotine for e-liquids?

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## Rex_Bael (6/6/14)

A few of the tobacco companies have been looking at vaping products, if I remember correctly BAT have been pursuing their own cig-alike. I am not too surprised that they picked up Twisp, considering the market penetration that they have achieved thus far. It does seem to indicate that they are starting to take it seriously. It could swing both ways, but mostly I think that the big tobacco companies are realizing that now is the time for them to start making their mark. As @soonkia said, they will be in a prime position to secure a large chunk of the market since they will be better prepared for dealing with more stringent regulations; not to mention the massive amounts of capital they can pump into this and the high level political and business connections they have available. 

Communities such as this one have made it abundantly clear that vaping is not a fad and is not going anywhere. Whether we like it or not, the tobacco industries and vaping are fundamentally intertwined. They are not going to sit there and watch their customer base be decimated while they could simply afford them an opportunity to switch "brands" and keep the business in-house. I am sure there are many people that will be much more comfortable switching if they could simply pick up a box of Camel or Dunhill cig-alikes at the Checkers cigarette counter. 

@phanatik The tobacco industry will not really be changing it's tune, just switching to a different key. I believe they were biding their time hoping the governement would squash vaping and save them the trouble. Their target market has already been shifting for many years towards less affluent countries and lower income groups. Vaping has a long way to go towards penetrating these markets. For the markets where vaping is slowly becoming more common and mainstream, big tobacco would be silly to just stand by and watch. The fact that a certain percentage of their customers are *going* to switch just gives them an incentive to enter the market.

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## Silver (8/6/14)

Imotions said:


> Howsit guys just heard British American Tobacco just bought Twisp off wats ur views would it change the way people look at vaping or e cigs seeing they are the monsters of the tobacco industry
> 
> Sent from my HUAWEI P6-U06 using Tapatalk



Hey @Imotions , where did you hear this? Was there a press release somewhere?

In any event, Twisp is only in SA to my knowledge. So are you saying BAT, the global company, bought Twisp?

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## shabbar (8/6/14)

I tried googling this and couldnt find anything about it

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## Silver (8/6/14)

shabbar said:


> I tried googling this and couldnt find anything about it



Lol, amazing how in this day and age, if Google cant find something then we tend to question it

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## Matt (8/6/14)

They have been in the vaping market for a while now.
Was expected that they would buy up companys like twisp.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...BAT-plans-to-dominate-e-cigarette-market.html

Reactions: Like 1


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## Tyler (8/6/14)

Imotions said:


> Howsit guys just heard British American Tobacco just bought Twisp off wats ur views would it change the way people look at vaping or e cigs seeing they are the monsters of the tobacco industry
> 
> Sent from my HUAWEI P6-U06 using Tapatalk


Where did you hear this from?

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## Imotions (8/6/14)

http://m.news24.com/fin24/Companies/Industrial/BAT-eyes-global-e-cigarette-market-20130731

Hi guys was probably just a rumour that was spread of above meaning e cigs and not much people knw about the vaping world n only knw twisp in SA therefore probably making them say twisp and i jumped into it...sorry if i just jumped into it...it also is an interesting topic though

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## Rex_Bael (8/6/14)

No worries @Imotions, we all make mistakes

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## Imotions (8/6/14)

lol but im gna find out nw where did everyone get the news from 

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## Silver (8/6/14)

No worries @Imotions 

I would find it weird for BAT, one of the worlds major tobacco companies to buy the Twisp brand in SA
I would think they would go for the bigger markets first
But I suppose anything can happen

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## Imotions (8/6/14)

I would of tot or better yet tot they bought twisp due to them converting people.from stinkies in SA 

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## BubiSparks (21/12/17)

Just leaving this here....

No Big Tobacco Company will ever see a cent of my money ever again!

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## Raindance (21/12/17)

BubiSparks said:


> Just leaving this here....
> 
> No Big Tobacco Company will ever see a cent of my money ever again!


I get what you are saying but then again.

I knew what I was doing was harmful. Nobody forced me to smoke. I accept the responsibility for my choices and therefore blame no one for its consequences but myself. If big tobacco wishes to change their evil ways as did I, good for them. I will only blame them were they to try create a monopoly of the vape scene. Vaping was created by vapers for vapers. And that is the way it is going to stay. Not negotiable. Full stop.

Regards.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## BumbleBee (21/12/17)

Well this is interesting, this thread has been dormant since June 2014, the day it gets bumped this appears elsewhere on the interweb...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...obacco-expands-in-south-africa-with-vape-deal

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## Daniel (21/12/17)

Click bait I tell you.... For me the Cue was a game changer maybe @HPBotha can comment if he's allowed to?


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## Rob Fisher (21/12/17)

Nope it is true. BAT has bought Twisp.


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## Hooked (21/12/17)

BumbleBee said:


> Well this is interesting, this thread has been dormant since June 2014, the day it gets bumped this appears elsewhere on the interweb...
> 
> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...obacco-expands-in-south-africa-with-vape-deal



Hey @Raindance Are you psychic, or did you have insider information?


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## Feliks Karp (21/12/17)

Eat any Cadbury's or shit like oreos and you are supporting big tobacco, Altria is the mother corp of Phillip Morris and have a majority stake in Kraft foods, which include Cadbury's, Jacob's, Nabisco etc. I'd just not buy Twisp because the quality seems undependable, unless you start growing your own food big tobacco has your money already.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Informative 1


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## SinnerG (21/12/17)

I think, right now, the likes of Twisp are the most visible brand out there, adorning malls, etc, etc. That's what BAT want to make it easier to bring in their other e-cig products. Sure beats trying to set that all up from scratch.

Let it happen, let the e-cig market expand. A Twisp is but a gateway to your first mech mod. 
Let them push, turn more smokers into vapers. Then that smoker who never noticed that vape shop in the mall before might now be a whole lot more interested in going in for a look-see. 

Problem I think might happen here is that, because BAT now has a visible vape line, people are going to start lumping vaping more and more with smoking because, well, BAT is tobacco. That doesn't help those currently fighting the fight to prevent vaping being lumped into the smoking laws.

Reactions: Agree 4


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## SinnerG (21/12/17)

Feliks Karp said:


> Eat any Cadbury's or shit like oreos and you are supporting big tobacco, Altria is the mother corp of Phillip Morris and have a majority stake in Kraft foods, which include Cadbury's, Jacob's, Nabisco etc. I'd just not buy Twisp because the quality seems undependable, unless you start growing your own food big tobacco has your money already.



Screw VW, I'm buying a SEAT.
I'd never be seen dead in a Golf, I'd rather drive an A3.
Chevy sux, buy an Opel.

It's quite frightening to think how few "companies" are out there in all industries. Holding company this, holding company that.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 4


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## Fuzz (21/12/17)

It just makes great business sense for BAT. Vaping has turned into an alt lifestyle choice, where the barrier for entry into it is considerably higher than buying a loose cigarette at a vendor. The nett effect of that statement is that vaping is a luxury lifestyle choice. By virtue of it being a luxury, you get to charge more. Charging more means bigger profits.

Now before people flame this post with the whole ‘vaping is safer than smoking, and that’s why I chose it’ argument and how it’s not a luxury, let’s go back to first principles:

Vaping is a form of nicotine delivery. So is smoking. Both do the same thing. And one is cheaper than the other. One is also safer than the other. Same with cars: if you choose a city hatchback with the bare minimum in terms of safety, over a luxury sedan that has collision avoidance, abs, 20 airbags, etc, this means you’re choosing the cheaper option over the safer option. You may not be able to afford the luxury car, so you’re stuck with the hatch. That’s how we define luxury and affordability.

Same in this instance: BAT is investing in the luxury option to diversify the range and appeal across a now wider market. Previously all that distinguished a smoker was whether you chose the cheap R20 pack or the R40 pack that was a ‘superior’ experience. Vaping has now widened that gap to cater for those who want to either spend more; Be more healthy; or both. This was the gap that the likes of BAT has been waiting for - to add a healthier, premium option to their product line.

In my own opinion (I’m no expert on the subject), they’re not going to kill the goose that lays the golden egg. This is their opportunity to milk the profits while they delay any sort of legislation. They have the money to get their marketing of Twisp on point and offer deeper market penetration while the entire vaping versus smoking distinction hangs in the balance. And with that scoring massive profits as their products fly off the shelves.

This is the tipping point for the industry in SA. Expect a lot of the people who cannot compete, or who don’t have a sound business model to keel over as this is no longer a game of ‘supply whatever you want without regulation’. Also expect the standard to increase and improve, especially from a quality control perspective within the juice space. We finally can leave behind the ‘bathtub mixers’ and the guys who sell ISO lab juice as revolutionary when all it really means is packing / mixing in a dust controlled environment.

Overall, this will be a positive step forward for the vaping industry, however as always, the consumer will have to fit the bill...


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## Adephi (22/12/17)

I find it a bit ironic that the nic we use in vape juice gets extracted from tabacco leaves. So even though we are not spending cash on that packet of stinkies the big companies still gets a cut. Albeit a much smaller cut.

Instead of buying 4 cartons of stinkies now you spend R100 to R150 every 2 months on nic if you diy juice. And that is still hurting them. 

But having a big tabacco company aligned with vaping does not bode well with legislation that is currently under debate.

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## daniel craig (22/12/17)

Adephi said:


> I find it a bit ironic that the nic we use in vape juice gets extracted from tabacco leaves. So even though we are not spending cash on that packet of stinkies the big companies still gets a cut. Albeit a much smaller cut.
> 
> Instead of buying 4 cartons of stinkies now you spend R100 to R150 every 2 months on nic if you diy juice. And that is still hurting them.
> 
> But having a big tabacco company aligned with vaping does not bode well with legislation that is currently under debate.


There are e-liquids which use TFN (Tobacco Free Nicotine). Juices that use this Nicotine are more expensive which is why most juices just settle for Nicotine derived from tobacco.

Reactions: Informative 2


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## BubiSparks (22/12/17)

@BumbleBee - It wasn't me who resurrected this old thread. The link you posted was posted by another member (forget his name), but he is the designer at Twisp and the post was deleted soon after my reply.

Interesting...........?

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## BumbleBee (22/12/17)

BubiSparks said:


> @BumbleBee - It wasn't me who resurrected this old thread. The link you posted was posted by another member (forget his name), but he is the designer at Twisp and the post was deleted soon after my reply.
> 
> Interesting...........?


Ah, that makes a bit more sense. Interesting indeed


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## Raindance (22/12/17)

Hooked said:


> Hey @Raindance Are you psychic, or did you have insider information?


Nope @Hooked, twasnt me. If I were psychic, I'd seen the Bitcoin growth thingy intime to get in on the groind floor. I would also have known when to get out.

Regards

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Martin_tu (23/12/17)

BumbleBee said:


> Ah, that makes a bit more sense. Interesting indeed



Well it's Mainstream news now.. https://www.businesslive.co.za/bd/c...ompany-in-a-move-to-next-generation-products/

*BAT to buy SA’s biggest vaping company in a move to ‘next-generation products’*
21 DECEMBER 2017 - 17:51 DAVE CHAMBERS




Picture: REUTERS/STEFAN WERMUTH
Cigarette giant and rand-hedge British American Tobacco (BAT) SA is buying SA’s biggest vaping company‚ Twisp.

Based in Cape Town‚ BAT SA said it wanted to expand its "next-generation products" business and offer consumers a choice of "compelling and innovative" alternatives to smoking.


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## RichJB (23/12/17)

Twisp is very much in big tobacco's wheelhouse: simple closed system designs that will be quite easy to get through regulations, and where the manufacturer retains a large degree of control over how the device is used. That is how big tobacco is approaching it, they have already bought up quite a few similar brands. They don't seem to have any interest in the enthusiast/DIY side of the market, what they want is a foolproof device that will attract new ex-smokers. 

At the same time, I think they are trying to reduce cost and technological complexity so that they can have a device to roll out in the developing world, as and when the technology allows.

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## Raindance (23/12/17)

RichJB said:


> Twisp is very much in big tobacco's wheelhouse: simple closed system designs that will be quite easy to get through regulations, and where the manufacturer retains a large degree of control over how the device is used. That is how big tobacco is approaching it, they have already bought up quite a few similar brands. They don't seem to have any interest in the enthusiast/DIY side of the market, what they want is a foolproof device that will attract new ex-smokers.
> 
> At the same time, I think they are trying to reduce cost and technological complexity so that they can have a device to roll out in the developing world, as and when the technology allows.


Interesting, their strategy seems to be using the entusiast/DIY scene as negotiation fother in legislative negotiations. Get the core market and kill the competition in one fowl swoop. Ba****ds!

Regards

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Martin_tu (24/12/17)

Raindance said:


> Interesting, their strategy seems to be using the entusiast/DIY scene as negotiation fother in legislative negotiations. Get the core market and kill the competition in one fowl swoop. Ba****ds! Regards



On the contrary, their strategy is more probably through their manipulation of legislation (to favour their own kind of products) via their 'Front Company' AKA VPASA. Note how the UK was restricted to maximum bottle size of 10ml and tank size of 2ml, now who are the market leaders in those sizes I wonder..

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## CMMACKEM (24/12/17)

I wish that they would just keep away from vaping. They will probably directly or indirectly make purchasing or actually vaping vape related goods difficult for us.

Comparing vaping and cigarettes is like comparing a carbonated soft drink to coffee.

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## RichJB (24/12/17)

Big tobacco being the market leader in vaping is precisely why vaping research isn't widely believed. Governments take their lead from public health bodies, who view vaping as a way for big tobacco to restore their reputation, get a seat at the public health policy discussion table again by claiming to produce reduced harm products, and keep the populace enslaved to nicotine in the process. This is why Scott Gottlieb is going after nicotine now. It is the substance that underpins everything. Take it away and they can break big tobacco's grip on the population.

Reactions: Like 1


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## incredible_hullk (24/12/17)

This is true

https://www.moneyweb.co.za/news/com...merican-tobacco-expands-in-sa-with-vape-deal/


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## Smoke_A_Llama (24/12/17)

To be honest... this deal gives me the heeby jeebies

Reactions: Agree 1 | Can relate 1


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