# Important: Mechanical Mod Safety



## devdev (31/1/14)

Ok, so now that I have embarked on the Mech mod journey, I am getting myself up to speed with safe vaping practice for mech mods.

I know there have been discussions about battery chemistry, using a kick vs not using a kick, and some other useful bits and pieces, but I feel it was necessary to have one central thread tying it all together. If you are lazy, or don't want to get your head properly around the danger of sub-ohm vaping, or what can go wrong when you push the limits with a mech and/or have an accident, please at the very least watch the video at the bottom!

(Maybe the mods will make this into a sticky?)

Firstly, I think we need a Vape Safety Mascot. I have nominated the friendly Fukuppy for this role. If you don't know Fukuppy's story, go and google it. Its actually quite funny:





In the words of @Matthee
_" Ignorance can be solved by education.....
BUT......there ain't no cure....for STUPID!!
And.....instructions are only helpful to those who READ 'EM....and HEED 'EM!!
NEVER hurts to "hammer home" safety, though!!
Happy (vaping)!"_

*So to kick off with, here is a general article about mechanical mod usage:*

http://bumblevape.com/article/25/105/0/Mechanical Mod Proper Usage Guide

*Want to see what can go wrong when your batteries catch fire?*

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-battery-failure-imr-18650-a.html#post3265928

*A quick explanation of different battery chemistry, and the risks of using one type versus another*

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...stion-about-batteries-vape-safe-mech-mod.html


*For those who want (arguably) the most exhaustive resource detailing mechanical mod safety:*

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-tips-vapors-looking-try-their-first-rba.html

*@Matthee 's thread on RBA safety for beginners*

http://www.ecigssa.co.za/threads/a-few-words-of-caution-about-rbas.661/

*Should you use a kick (safety device) in your mech mod?*

http://www.ecigssa.co.za/threads/to-kick-or-not-to-kick.727/#post-10971

*The Mechanical Mod Safety video:*


I would urge anyone exploring this exciting aspect of vaping culture to familiarize themselves with the science, methodology and mechanics of what they are doing when using mechanical mods. These things can be dangerous when abused or misused, and the last thing we want is for someone to get hurt or for something to happen which creates a bad image for the vaping community.

*Disclaimer: The information is provided here as a general resource for those looking for information about safety when using mechanical mods. I cannot and will not be held responsible for any damage, harm, injury or loss that occurs to you, your property, those around you, or your equipment as a result of your own actions (be they willful or negligent). If you buy a mech mod you are obliged to understand and operate it in a manner that is safe to yourself, your property, your environment and those around you. Never underestimate the potential damage that can occur with high amp discharges, short circuits, poor workmanship and a lack of knowledge about what you are doing. Vape safe folks, and avoid any potential Fukuppys!*

*Mods: Please include any additional information that has not been included*

Reactions: Like 3 | Winner 7 | Thanks 1 | Informative 2


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## TylerD (31/1/14)

Great thread @devdev ! I love it!

Reactions: Like 2


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## Andre (1/2/14)

An absolute winner, @devdev. Thank you for putting it together. It has been stickyfied!

Reactions: Like 2 | Informative 1


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## devdev (1/2/14)

This thread would not be complete without the battery chart:

http://www.ecigssa.co.za/attachments/battery-information-pdf.585/

I can't stress again how important it is to ensure you have the correct kit.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Gazzacpt (1/2/14)

Some extra battery info for those just starting out.

18350 and 18650 are popular sizes but what do the numbers mean.

The first 2 digits are the diameter in mm
The second set of 2 digits are the length in mm
And the last digit which is almost always 0 means its round.

So an 18 35 0 would be 18mm diameter 35mm in length and round.

Next important number is the mah which means milli ampere hour.
It is the discharge rate in milliamps per hour. Its the way the battery's capacity in measured.
so a 2000mah battery will last for 1 hour and a constant load of 2000ma (2A) in an ideal world.

This post might not correlate directly to safety, feel free to move to the relevant section.

Reactions: Like 3


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## devdev (1/2/14)

Thanks @Gazzacpt this is important stuff as well, and does belong here.

Its also important to understand what the 'C' rating of the cell is. This is basically the amount of current that the cell can safely discharge. If you draw more amps than the C rating then you run serious risk of damaging the battery, which may result in thermal runaway, or venting.

Reactions: Like 2


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## devdev (1/2/14)

Yes, we are (I am) doing a big number on safety at the moment guys. 

Want to see what sort of injuries can happen when you accidentally turn on your mech mod?

http://www.vapeatron.com/unprotected-cr2-batteries-blow-up-detonator-burn-leg-3053/

This makes Fukuppy very sad!

(Note that this guy stacked two unprotected batteries, and then had the mod in his pants pocket. He is lucky he got away relatively unscathed)

Reactions: Like 1


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## devdev (1/2/14)

Look at this mod:












Now, where did my charger disappear to? And why are there black marks on the wall?






Full post: http://www.thaievape.com/e-cigarette-technical-issues/4214-exploding-charger-battery.html


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## TylerD (1/2/14)

NEVER STACK BATTERIES!

Reactions: Agree 3


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## devdev (1/2/14)

I wish I could agree more than once with your post Tyler!


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## Silver (2/2/14)

Gazzacpt said:


> Some extra battery info for those just starting out.
> 
> 18350 and 18650 are popular sizes but what do the numbers mean.
> 
> ...



Hi Gazza, loved your post explaining the numbers of the batteries. Thanks. 

With regard to the mah rating, you said it "is the discharg rate". I know what you mean, but in my view, calling it the discharge rate is misleading. I view the mah as the capacity or "size of the battery tank". It has little to do with the rate at which it can discharge, but rather the TOTAL amount of charge that can be stored in it. 

To me the discharge rate is something described by the amp rating or maximum amp rating. 

Quite a pedantic technical point, but maybe others can comment on this as well...

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Gazzacpt (2/2/14)

Silver1 said:


> Hi Gazza, loved your post explaining the numbers of the batteries. Thanks.
> 
> With regard to the mah rating, you said it "is the discharg rate". I know what you mean, but in my view, calling it the discharge rate is misleading. I view the mah as the capacity or "size of the battery tank". It has little to do with the rate at which it can discharge, but rather the TOTAL amount of charge that can be stored in it.
> 
> ...



Hey Silver. I know what you mean but thats the way I got taught, many years ago lol.
Its how it makes sense to me, the way the capacity in measured is how many amps it can discharge over an hour. So if I need a 7A load held up for 2hrs I need 14amps per hr. I suppose in the application we using it for the safe maximum current load is the more important number.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Silver (2/2/14)

Agreed

Just for clarity then, suppose a battery is rated as 3000 mah. That does not necessarily mean it can push out 3A for 1 hour. It may only be able to push out 1A for 3 hours. So the amp rating is the rate of discharge and the mah is the capacity.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


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## Tornalca (3/2/14)

Think this also has a place in this thread. Although @devdev has already posted a chart

Reactions: Like 1


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## devdev (3/2/14)

Good post @Tornalca - my research on the NCR18650B showed them as being 5 Amp limit, so I am only using those for 2 ohm rigs (Pretty much protank on an SVD). Since the NCR is unprotected and explosive chemistry I don't really want to use it my magneto, and the guys over at ECF advised against using NCR18650B's for anything other than a flashlight!


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## Riaz (3/2/14)

what an informative thread!!!

thanks to all those who posted. i have certainly learnt alot

thanks guys

Reactions: Like 1


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## Tornalca (3/2/14)

devdev said:


> Good post @Tornalca - my research on the NCR18650B showed them as being 5 Amp limit, so I am only using those for 2 ohm rigs (Pretty much protank on an SVD). Since the NCR is unprotected and explosive chemistry I don't really want to use it my magneto, and the guys over at ECF advised against using NCR18650B's for anything other than a flashlight!



I only have one of them and use it in my SVD with IGO-L 1.7 ohm coil and Kayfun 1.8 ohm coil. Works fine but will not use it in a MOD.


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## vaalboy (3/2/14)

Great thread guys - possibly a silly question, for those of us who use the standard coils (1.8/2.2 ohm bottom coils) on mods at risk of battery explosions too?


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## Gizmo (3/2/14)

Or just put a kick in and never have to stress and have constant voltage.


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## Gizmo (3/2/14)

vaalboy said:


> Great thread guys - possibly a silly question, for those of us who use the standard coils (1.8/2.2 ohm bottom coils) on mods at risk of battery explosions too?



Not a chance bud.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## SunRam (3/2/14)

vaalboy said:


> Great thread guys - possibly a silly question, for those of us who use the standard coils (1.8/2.2 ohm bottom coils) on mods at risk of battery explosions too?



Yes, all it needs is a hard short, and even standard protank coils can short. In by far the most cases, the coil will pop, and no ill effects to the battery or mod, but if you get a hard short, or the battery fires continuously in your pocket, you might be in trouble. We must understand that something terrible must go wrong for a battery to explode, but the reality is, that it can happen.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Derick (3/2/14)

vaalboy said:


> Great thread guys - possibly a silly question, for those of us who use the standard coils (1.8/2.2 ohm bottom coils) on mods at risk of battery explosions too?



Nah, you should be cool - even the standard batteries that most battery companies make can handle the amps needed for a 1.8/2.2 Ohm coil - but if you are ever in doubt - if the battery (not atomizer) starts getting warm while you are vaping, then you are probably overtaxing the battery. While getting warm does not lead to explosion, it does shorten the life of your battery.

Getting HOT - like too hot to touch will lead to what they refer to as thermal runaway - basically the higher temp causes a chemical reaction, which leads to higher temp, which causes the chemical reaction to speed up etc. etc. and boom! (well not a boom - imagine lighting a box of matches all at once - except it goes on for a few minutes)

In short - anything from 1.8 and up, pretty much any battery will handle it

EDIT: as far as shorts etc go - it will depend on your electronics. If you have no electronics (mech mod) then yeah, a short can cause thermal runaway in your unprotected battery.

But there are many safety precautions: Protected batteries, kicks, electronic mods - all of these will have short protection, over discharge protection and even reverse polarity protection

Reactions: Informative 1


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## devdev (3/2/14)

@vaalboy You should be fine, although maybe you want to consider the chemistry of your batteries, as some are definitely safer than others.

Your safest bet is to use IMR chemistry batteries, as opposed to any other chemical make up. The reason is that in the event of a thermal run away the IMR will only vent gas. Provided your mod has vent holes then you should be fine. If you have no vent holes, then you may have a pipe bomb in your pocket.

There are a couple of things you can do to make sure that things are safer and you have minimised the chance of something going wrong:

1. Only use IMR batteries, since their form of thermal runaway is seriously diminished and it just vents gas instead of bursting into flames
2. Always make sure your mod has venting holes (SVD has holes in the end cap)
3. Never stack batteries, use only a single cell, and use the biggest cell you can (in mah rating), reason being is that the larger the cell, the more abuse it takes to cause thermal runaway.
4. Never put your mod in your bag unless it is turned off

Derick is right, you do get protected batteries, these are non-IMR. Although they have a built in safety circuit this can fail, or it can be activated and then destroy the circuit. The cell can continue to operate even though the circuit is destroyed, so you basically land up with a battery that is unprotected AND dangerous chemistry.

Remember that vapers are basically using these cells for reasons that they were never intended for - especially low ohm rigs which suck huge current (Amps) out of the battery. The bulk of the 3.7v cells on the market were designed for continous low current usage - i.e. for powering a flashlight. These cells are not protected (they don't need protection if used for their intended purpose).

Manufacturers started adding protection as a fail safe mechanism. IMR chemistry is the newer technology and as said, they vent if abused, as opposed to combusting. Downside with IMR is that they don't have the same mah capacity as the other chemistry cells. To counter this manufacturers have started making hybrid cells which combine the safety of IMR technology with slightly higher mah rating.

After all the research I have done, it seems that badittude on ECF is the defacto authourity on batteries. He has a blog post where he provides a list of 'safer' batteries. He strongly advises against using the wrong batteries for _High drain applications_:



> _High drain applications_ would be in a regulated mod which uses pulse regulation to make VV/VW, a mechanical mod using a Kick, or when using an RBA/RDA.



Note that mods such as the SVD and VTR rely on pulse width modulation to achieve VV or VW - which according to his definition, would be considered high drain applications. He does state though that:



> _Low drain applications_ would be using _factory-made_ juice attachments on a mod (cartomizers or clearomizers).



Source: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-ohm-range-panasonic-ncr18650b-max6-8a-2.html

So to answer your question, if you avoid using an RBA, are using factory assembled kit and atomisers and you have a decent battery that can handle amp draws in the region of 5 Amps upwards on an electronic mod then you should be fine, although you may feel better using an IMR type of cell, even though its mah rating is lower.

If you consider that your mod will either be in your pocket, near your lap (groin), face, house or car if the battery gets to a thermal runaway the best case scenario will be minor damage to whatever is surrounding it, and worst will be destruction of property and/or disfigurement or injury to you or your loved ones.

All that being said, you can compare the risk to reckless driving. If you are going to drive everywhere and every day at 180km/h then chances are you will get into an accident sooner rather than later, and the chances of surviving are pretty low. On the other hand if you occasionally go 20km/h over the speed limit then you will probably be fine and even if there is an accident, there is a much higher chance of surviving it.

For those that are interested the safest batteries for mechnical mods are AW IMR cells. AW stands for Andrew Wong (or Wang). He basically buys up cells from sony, panasonic and other manufacturers, and then runs them through a series of tests, rejecting the cells that are outside of the manufacturers claimed specs for that cell type. Those that make it through this additional series of tests are then shrinkwrapped in red labels, with the AW logo.

These cells are believed to be the best (provided they are genuine AW cells) because they do actually perform as the manufacturer specified. Obviously you pay more for these cells. Any AW cells that you find in the east that are significantly cheaper than reputable vendors are almost definitely knock-offs, and you can assured they do not conform to the same specifications as genuine AW batts. These fake cells are definitely not able to handle the 30 Amp discharge that genuine AW cells can handle, and may be rated as poorly as a 2 Amp discharge.

From the ECF forums it seems there is a huge problem with counterfeit batteries. As with most things, you get what you pay for.

Sorry for the long post!

Reactions: Like 3 | Informative 1


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## Andre (3/2/14)

Thanks @devdev, well explained. Came to the same conclusion as you re badittude. That is why I rely on his battery info.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Silver (4/2/14)

Thanks @devdev for the comprehensive post. Well explained.
Good to know this

Reactions: Like 1


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## Riaz (4/2/14)

so which batteries would you recommend for:

1. SVD
2. mech mod

protected? unportected? IMR? 

please list the full spec of the battery- mostly for 18650


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## SunRam (4/2/14)

To make it easier, I just use IMR's for everything - so my recommendation would be IMR. But you'll be OK with protected ICR's for regulated mods like SVD, and definitely IMR for mech's.

See here for popular battery specs:
http://www.ecigssa.co.za/index.php?threads/sub-ohm-battery-chart.722/

Reactions: Like 1


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## Riaz (4/2/14)

thanks @SunRam 

another question, whats the difference between button top/ bubble top?


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## Andre (4/2/14)

Riaz said:


> thanks @SunRam
> 
> another question, whats the difference between button top/ bubble top?


Button top has a button at the top standing out as opposed to flat tops. Most devices work with both. Reos prefer the button tops. Agree with @SunRam, go for IMRs - the AW IMR 18650 2000 mAh. If you want to go very low in resistance on a mech - the AW IMR 18650 1600 mAh.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## devdev (5/2/14)

http://www.ecigadvanced.com/blog/e-cig-believed-to-have-started-150000-fire-in-australia/

Interesting statistic that puts all this safety stuff into perspective: its estimated that 1000 fires a year are started by conventional cigarettes, in comparison it seems there were only 3 or 4 reported incidents (based on my googling) in the past year in the US where e cigs experienced some kind of fire or explosion.


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## Derick (6/2/14)

devdev said:


> http://www.ecigadvanced.com/blog/e-cig-believed-to-have-started-150000-fire-in-australia/
> 
> Interesting statistic that puts all this safety stuff into perspective: its estimated that 1000 fires a year are started by conventional cigarettes, in comparison it seems there were only 3 or 4 reported incidents (based on my googling) in the past year in the US where e cigs experienced some kind of fire or explosion.



Yep - and then when you read the details , it is usually someone that did not know what they were doing or clearly ignored the safety precautions. One person used the wrong USB charger for her e-cig and basically just kept on pumping voltage into it with no cut-off when it was fully charged. This was on a EGO - which probably has a ICR cell in it and is obviously not vented - so it went off like a firecracker .

Reactions: Like 1


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## Rob Fisher (1/4/14)

Great thread this! This has to be a definite read for anyone embarking on the Mech Mod route! Thanks Guys for the in-depth info!

IMR is the way to go it seems... now where does the *SONY VTC4 18650 30A 2100MAH* fit in?


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## Reinvanhardt (1/4/14)

Compared to most other 30A IMR batteries the VTC4 has a higher mAh, so it will last a while longer if that is what you mean.


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## Rob Fisher (1/4/14)

Reinvanhardt said:


> Compared to most other 30A IMR batteries the VTC4 has a higher mAh, so it will last a while longer if that is what you mean.



I checked with @Gizmo and this particular Sony is for Sub Ohmers... Yip I get the longer lasting bit... I just wondered if it was the safest battery for a goose like me. BUt no stock yet so will keep going with my AW's.


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## BhavZ (1/4/14)

Rob Fisher said:


> I checked with @Gizmo and this particular Sony is for Sub Ohmers... Yip I get the longer lasting bit... I just wondered if it was the safest battery for a goose like me. BUt no stock yet so will keep going with my AW's.



@Rob Fisher if you are worried about safety then the two things to look at apart from brand are the following aspects of the battery, 1) chemistry, 2) battery drainage/draw (not sure of the correct term)

1) Chemistry
As you know IMR are the safest

2) Battery Drainage/Draw
You want a battery with the highest amp limit possible.

simplest was is to use an ohms calculator and work out your amps by inserting your voltage and resistance in the relevant fields.

If your amp draw is less than the limit of the battery by at least 2 amps then you are safe. (The 2 amp margin is a general consensus by a few people I have spoken to and not a scientific measure).

Hope that helps.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Rob Fisher (1/4/14)

BhavZ said:


> Hope that helps.



It does very much! Thanks @BhavZ!


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## Andre (1/4/14)

Rob Fisher said:


> Great thread this! This has to be a definite read for anyone embarking on the Mech Mod route! Thanks Guys for the in-depth info!
> 
> IMR is the way to go it seems... now where does the *SONY VTC4 18650 30A 2100MAH* fit in?


I think those are called "hybrid" batteries. Wish someone would tell me why? Apparently they are quite safe for mechs.


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## johan (1/4/14)

Matthee said:


> I think those are called "hybrid" batteries. Wish someone would tell me why? Apparently they are quite safe for mechs.



Hybrid = not pure lithium but mixed with manganese - lessen the fire and boom hazard associated with pure lithium

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## Andre (1/4/14)

johanct said:


> Hybrid = not pure lithium but mixed with manganese - lessen the fire and boom hazard associated with pure lithium


Thanks, but the AW IMRs are also Lithium Manganese and have never been called "hybrid"?

Reactions: Like 1


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## devdev (1/4/14)

What @johanct said. It's a hybrid in the sense that they are safe, but have a little higher mah rating


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## johan (1/4/14)

Matthee said:


> Thanks, but the AW IMRs are also Lithium Manganese and have never been called "hybrid"?



To do with the Li / Mg ratio; higher Mg = safer


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## johan (1/4/14)

@Matthee another thing: AW (Andrew Wong) buys different types, not concentrating on safe vs not so safe, but more on the maximum safe current he can get out of them, plus operational duty. Then when it meets his personal specs, it get wrapped in the Red wrapper with the AW logo.


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## Silver (1/4/14)

Thanks for all the insights here

So those Sony batteries seem like a good option then

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Andre (1/4/14)

devdev said:


> What @johanct said. It's a hybrid in the sense that they are safe, but have a little higher mah rating


That does not make sense for me, then the new 2500 mAh Efests IMR will also have to be called hybrids? Seems to me "hybrid" is just another word for "IMR". If so, the Sony VTC batteries are also IMR and good to go for mechs?


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## Rob Fisher (1/4/14)

Matthee said:


> That does not make sense for me, then the new 2500 mAh Efests IMR will also have to be called hybrids? Seems to me "hybrid" is just another word for "IMR". If so, the Sony VTC batteries are also IMR and good to go for mechs?



And if @Matthee is confused then you can only imagine how I feel! Chameleon, Smarties... you know the story!

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Andre (1/4/14)

Rob Fisher said:


> And if @Matthee is confused then you can only imagine how I feel! Chameleon, Smarties... you know the story!


Haha, don't even try to start reading up on these on the Internet, could drive you mad. But it does seem to me "hybrid" and "IMR" essentially are the same thing for our purposes. In the tests I have seen the Sony VTC actually does very well.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## devdev (1/4/14)

My understanding was that pure IMRs were always behind in mah rating. Hybrids took the best of IMR safety, and increased the mah rating by changing the chemistry to achieve 20% higher mah rating.

But that was all based on the technology at the time. Battery manufacturers are constantly developing higher mah capacity cells. The new efest IMRs are not hybrid per say, but simply new technology IMR which has the higher capacity.

At least that is based on my understanding of the term. You can't really compare the new technology higher mah efests with the older higher mah hybrids

Reactions: Like 1


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## johan (1/4/14)

Marketing buffs will always come up with words and terms to bamboozle the consumer just for the sake of selling, technically even a Lythium Polymer is a hybrid because it doesn't consist out of 1 element only.

Reactions: Like 1


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## TylerD (1/4/14)

johanct said:


> Marketing buffs will always come up with words and terms to bamboozle the consumer just for the sake of selling, technically even a Lythium Polymer is a hybrid because it doesn't consist out of 1 element only.


I agree, I think words like Hybrid is used too loosely.
Like calling a Cad technical support guy an Application Engineer.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## johan (1/4/14)

For our purposes a "safe" battery is one with a continuous amp rating higher than what our coil/s would demand. Drawing more current than the battery is specified at, even if it is a Sony or AW with Rolls Royce stickers, is an "unsafe" battery.


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## Andre (1/4/14)

Boiled down to simple language "hybrid" here just denotes the mixing of two different stuffs, lithium and manganese. And IMR means exactly the same. So, presto: Hybrid = IMR. But, you could be right maybe Sony started using the term "hybrid" to market its then higher mAh. Eish, these marketing guys.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Spiri (10/4/14)

I have a question for the battery guru's out there. I recently purchased some AW IMR 18350's from one of our vendors on the forum, and on their website it says that they is rated at 16A. I have done some investigation on the matter, and I am lead to believe that the AW IMR 18350's are only rated at 6A. 
I have asked the vendor if the information on their website is correct to which the answer was: "That's the 6 second burst limit. The actual amps is only 10A on both the 18350 and 18650"??. 
Is it safe to presume that the ACTUAL amp limit is 6A, or is it in fact 10A for AW IMR 18350 batteries?
Rather safe than sorry!


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## ET (10/4/14)

hahaha, that bit confuzzled me also. when i did some googling i think i also came out with the 10 amp figure. would love some proper clarification on this. that and an 18350 that's got more mah than 700 would be nice and still rock on a mech mod

edit : darn yeah ok most sites telling me 6A for the little bats yes. still good but nothing compared to what the bigger ones can do

Reactions: Agree 1


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## johan (10/4/14)

I'm not the battery guru but, AW IMR 18350 700mA battery limits are as follows:
Continuous current: 6Amax
Burst current: 16Amax
Although you can use it on coils drawing up to 16A for very brief firing, what happens when the firing button on your mech is pressed by accident in a briefcase or in your pocket, will be a sorry site to see.
Rather be safe and don't exceed 6A as you rightly said @Spiri

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## ET (10/4/14)

happy days, looks like i'll be looking for one or two of these when they come out

http://www.vividsmoke.com/efest-imr-18350-700mah-10-5a-purple-battery.html


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## thekeeperza (10/4/14)

johan said:


> Apologies but I'm dumbstruct by your question, please elaborate for my poor understanding?





denizenx said:


> happy days, looks like i'll be looking for one or two of these when they come out
> 
> http://www.vividsmoke.com/efest-imr-18350-700mah-10-5a-purple-battery.html



HERE!

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Spiri (10/4/14)

Thanks @johan & @denizenx , I dont think I will be pushing these teeny weeny little guys above the "safe" 6Amp limit. @denizenx , I agree, I have been ogling those Efest 18350's since they have been posted on the forum... But my wallet, Eish, she says NO! (for this month at least)


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## Spiri (11/4/14)

Just as a matter of interest. How long do these AW IMR 18350 700mah batteries last you guys on your mech mods?
I would eppreciate if you give me a rough "guestimate" of hours and the resistance of your coil, and if it is heavy or moderate vaping.


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## Riaz (11/4/14)

Spiri said:


> Just as a matter of interest. How long do these AW IMR 18350 700mah batteries last (hrs) you guys on your mech mods?
> I would eppreciate if you give me a rough "guestimate" of hours and the resistance of your coil, and if it is heavy or moderate vaping.



1.2ohm coil, used in russian on a nemesis- lasts about 4-5 hours- thats with decent vaping (few deep hard long pulls every so now and then)

the main reason i bought it is coz the mods really look awesome in tiny mode

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gazzacpt (11/4/14)

Spiri said:


> Just as a matter of interest. How long do these AW IMR 18350 700mah batteries last (hrs) you guys on your mech mods?
> I would eppreciate if you give me a rough "guestimate" of hours and the resistance of your coil, and if it is heavy or moderate vaping.


Mine last for 2hrs of moderate vaping at 0.9ohms. Thats very close to the safe limit of the battery to. I personally wouldn't run lower than 0.9 on the 350. 

Sent from my GT-I9190 using Tapatalk


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## Reinvanhardt (11/4/14)

0.8 ohms for about two hours of heavy vaping here.

Ps. I've got the purple Efest 700mAh (10.5a)

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Jimbo (3/5/14)

Great thread for safe mech mod use. 
Something that I've been wondering about as noob and don't see mentioned is how the battery should go into your MechMod.
Does it matter what way round you insert your battery into your mech mod? 
Positive end (+) connecting to bottom switch OR positive to connect to top firing pin that connects to your Atty? 
Does it matter which way round or not?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## ET (3/5/14)

not sure if it will really make a difference but just doing it the standard positive of battery closest to atty/dripper should keep you from ever putting your battery the wrong way in some other device


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## johan (3/5/14)

@Jimbo it doesn't make a difference if you don't go seriously sub-ohm. If you go <0.5 Ohm then surface area between battery and mech contacts become very important. The spring on the negative side will provide a better contact surface area than on the positive side and visa versa. I hope this answers your question. The tube type mechs are normally designed in such away that the positive side is closest to the 510 connector.

Reactions: Like 4 | Informative 1


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## Mario (29/7/14)

Greetings
I have just built my 1st ever dual parallel coil @*0.2* ohms  on my Tobh V2/Fury-S Mod with an Efest 18650 35A battery.
Why does my Mod get so hot ?
Is this normal due to the 0.2 ohms?

Please advice


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## BhavZ (29/7/14)

Mario said:


> Greetings
> I have just built my 1st ever dual parallel coil @*0.2* ohms  on my Tobh V2/Fury-S Mod with an Efest 18650 35A battery.
> Why does my Mod get so hot ?
> Is this normal due to the 0.2 ohms?
> ...


Is the mod getting hot or the BATTERY as well?


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## Mario (29/7/14)

@BhavZ just the Mod ...especially the fire button


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## Riaz (29/7/14)

Mario said:


> @BhavZ just the Mod ...especially the fire button


i wouldnt be too concerned if its just the mod that gets a little warm


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## Andre (29/7/14)

Mario said:


> Greetings
> I have just built my 1st ever dual parallel coil @*0.2* ohms  on my Tobh V2/Fury-S Mod with an Efest 18650 35A battery.
> Why does my Mod get so hot ?
> Is this normal due to the 0.2 ohms?
> ...


That is too low for that battery. The continuous discharge rating on those batteries is 20 Amps (spiking discharge is 35A). You are pushing out 21 Amps at 0.2 ohms. You run the risk of re-arranging your face. You need a Sony VTC battery.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## BhavZ (29/7/14)

Mario said:


> @BhavZ just the Mod ...especially the fire button


Heat transfer is normal in a mech mod when running such a low ohm.

However to be safe I would say double check that the coil is not touching the base or the cap of the atty.

But lets see what the more experienced guys say. Personally I think it could just be heat transfer but I do not have personal experience with such low ohms.


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## johan (29/7/14)

Mario said:


> Greetings
> I have just built my 1st ever dual parallel coil @*0.2* ohms  on my Tobh V2/Fury-S Mod with an Efest 18650 35A battery.
> Why does my Mod get so hot ?
> Is this normal due to the 0.2 ohms?
> ...


 
I agree with @Andre's comments regarding the battery. Also check the condition of the inside of your firing button and thoroughly clean it. The contact areas (threads etc.) might be contaminated with carbon, dust etc. That will in turn create some resistance for the current path and will contribute to the heating up of your mech.


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## Mario (29/7/14)

Thank you


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## Andre (29/7/14)

Mario said:


> Thank you


Quite a big jump from 0.3 to 0.2. At 0.3 you will only be pushing 14A, which is a good margin on that battery. 
http://www.onlineconversion.com/ohms_law.htm


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## MoneymanVape (19/5/16)

Any info as to how the noisy cricket safety mod work?


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## Andre (20/5/16)

MoneymanVape said:


> Any info as to how the noisy cricket safety mod work?


http://www.ecigssa.co.za/noisy-cricket-series-box-mod-safety.t18651/


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## MoneymanVape (20/5/16)

Anyone know anything about the fat daddy upgrade parts for the cricket and how itworks?


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## Resistance (23/8/18)

Very good thread.
If I may add not in technical terms...
mech mods use the direct current supply capacity of the (battery) cell and shorts it with a resistor 'the coil' to promote heat energy to release the energy stored in the cell.
If i said it right.
if we short circuit anything storing energy heat will escape due to the molecules vibrating faster than its supposed to and if contained in a enclosure or covering enough ventilation is required to allow said heat to escape.In some cases we need to use a circuit breaker to cut the current if heat becomes to much or we face a meltdown.
If too much heat builds up Kaboom!!!
So we can look at the cells and say hey, this cell can hold 3000 mah of energy.
3000 mah is 3000 milli amps per hour so the cell can hold and release 3 amps in an hour,but its the way we release that current that makes the difference.
we can let it release slowly which means we can regulate its stored energy release by the coil slowly by the amount of resistance the coil gives to the circuit
or fast in the same manner.
but the heat generated by releasing it fast does not have anywhere to go,so we are pushing the limit when we release it fast in a circuit that does not have a circuit breaker.

That is where fuses come in play.Its main aim is to break the circuit to prevent an explosion.

Using a mech mod without a fuse can be safe of the stored energy is released slowly,
but releasing it fast without safety measures is pushing the limits.
It is like running a marathon with a tracksuit and no water and in a sprinting speed.Pretty soon your body will heat up and start breaking down and either you will collapse or go in a coma and maybe not come out of it if too much damage is done from heat retention.

Now the chemicals in certain cells don't give you a warning,the warning is heating up and because most chemicals is of a volatile nature they do not like to be contained and seeking the freedom they once new will try and break free from its straight jacket they were put in.

With that said, trying to pull all the current from the cell that it can hold in an instant without a way to release the heat generated within the cell will result in explosions.
Don't built coils that exploit the current limit of your cells and if you do give ample time in between to cool off.
cells are not bespoke they are mass produced and the chemical compounds within them don't get along too good.Theres no way of guaranteeing the one you are using is perfectly manufactured even with specifications being in place.So build safer coils compared to cell capacity.
I do hope this is helping at least one person as there will be people exploiting the limits.It happens everywhere,but for the most Do not build hand grenades please.

So be safe and Vape on

Reactions: Like 2 | Informative 1 | Useful 1


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## Raindance (23/8/18)

Well said @Resistance. When cells get too hot their electrolite vaporises and if contained in a confined space will go bang. Cells have a ‘safety’ by means of a rupture area designed to let go before pressures get to big bang teritorry. This is what happens when a cell vents. Ofcourse this means nothing if the mod has no vent holes also allowing pressure to be released.

The fireworks we see are in fact cells that went into thermal runaway. If the load is maintained, even during venting, or in the case of a short where venting accurs simultaneously with thermal runaway, the heat cases the cell to short circuit internally. This causes more heat causing more of a short and so on. Sufficient heat ignites the chemicals and their by products. All in a split second. 

If thermal runaway occurs, even in a vented mod, there will be a spectacular bang! No amount of venting holes will safely dispose of these pressures.

Always treat your cells with care and respect. No matter the mod or build. The most importand thing to do is maintain your wraps and inspect them every time before and after you recharge.

Regards

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## Resistance (23/8/18)

I fully agree @Raindance. Thanks for adding the info.

Reactions: Like 2


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