# Juice Constituents



## 360twin (9/7/14)

After reading one of the Reddit threads in @Alex 's post (some good laughs there), I wondered how many here are concerned about what goes into juices. This not from a flavour point of view, more about possible health risks.

I was startled when I first read about Diacetyl and the resulting incurable disease caused by inhaling it. More concerning was the fact that, while the use of Diacetyl is (or is about to be) restricted by legislation in the US, the EU still regards it as 'safe for use' as a food flavouring. The ruling does not cover vaping, as legislation in this regard is still in its infancy. It is therefore quite possible that e-juice made in the EU may still legally contain Diacetyl even though the dangers of inhaling it are known.

As an alternative to Diacetyl, Acetoin is currently been used to produce a butter flavour, but this can form small amounts of Diacetyl under certain conditions. What exactly these may be is a bit of a mystery, and I have yet to find anything definitive on the possible dangers of inhaling Acetoin-flavoured e-juice.

While the above article relates to more understandible flavour descriptions, I would like to know what other constituents may be in a juice, particularly if they may be considered potentially harmful.

Being a DIY juice-maker I recently started ordering from Valley Vapour, seeing that they have a wide range of available flavours. Of note here is a warning about Acetoin and notification of which flavours contain it. I found this both refreshing and surprising, particularly which flavours are affected. For example, Coconut contains Acetoin, while Kettle Corn does not! Vanilla Custard and White Chocolate are perhaps obvious candidates, but Hazelnut? Sweet Cream does, but Whipped Cream doesn't?

Kudos to @drew for adopting this attitude even though it risks costing him some sales, and I wish more suppliers would do the same. Granted, it may not always be possible to establish what a particular flavour may contain, but it would be nice to see relevant information when it is.

I should make it clear that I am not recommending the avoidance of flavours that use Acetoin, I do not know enough about the subject to provide any advice. I am merely using this as an example of what information I would like juice suppliers to provide - I am more concerned whether a particular flavour is likely to kill me than if it tastes like 'vicks on ecstacy'.

I think most vapers view impending legislation as a possible end to the current freedoms we enjoy, but there are potentail benefits - preventing makers from using flavours that are 'safe to eat' but not 'safe to breath' being an obvious one.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Imthiaz Khan (9/7/14)

Good topic @drew!
I would also like to see more info of the ingredients used in the juices!

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Imthiaz Khan (10/7/14)

I so wanted to taste the custard and other dessert type of juices but i think i rather be safe than sorry & not try them.


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## Mauritz (10/7/14)

Hi all,

So the Custard ingredients have been discussed in much detail Here and Here and .. Here.

Some other food for thought can be found:

Levels of selected carcinogens and toxicants in vapour from electronic cigarettes
http://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/early/2013/03/05/tobaccocontrol-2012-050859.short

I can not speak for all juices, but in general the chemicals in most eliquids are limited to PG/VG Flavourants , ethyl alchohol and nicotine. There are some levels of contaminents but this is managed through the use of pharmaciatical grade ingredients which limits the contaminents to trace amounts less than that which is present in your water and food.

That leaves flavourants.

The FDA governs the use of various ester such as ethyl butyrate used in the production of artifical flavourants and makes reccomendation as to its safety through reccomeded concentrations measured in parts per million or PPI.

Please see this list for a complete list of additives that are currently approved for use in the flavours industry.

These additives are allowed under the As Low As Reasonably Practicable (ALARP) principle :

" Synthetic flavoring substances and adjuvants may be safely used in food in accordance with the following conditions.
(a) They are used in the minimum quantity required to produce their intended effect, and otherwise in accordance with all the principles of good manufacturing practice. "

Currently the closest thing we have to as study that measures the safety of these chemicals in inhalation is the clearstream study Here and Here that has tested both the total organic carbons in vapour and also the effects of various flavourants on lung cell viability. As we do not know the exact compounds in each flavour we can only conclude that the majority of flavourants are acceptably safe as they show little impact on cell viability.

Hope this helps ...

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 2


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## Imthiaz Khan (10/7/14)

Thank you for the info @Mauritz !


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## 360twin (10/7/14)

@Mauritz I was not attempting to start another article on the possible dangers of inhaling Acetoin, I merely used this as an example of a constituent that may be of interest to consumers.

Due to my own concerns I found it particularly useful that the retailer refered to listed those flavours containing this compound, as well as a warning regarding possible use. This builds a feeling of trust, and I would like to believe that he would add to this list if more information became available. I have not seen any other retailer adopt this attitude.

I originally became interested in making my own juice after buying some Hangseng flavours at a good price. All three (Apple, Vanilla and RY4) had the same underlying taste that I found unappealing, and I had no idea what the common ingredient may have been. The only unknown in my juices is the flavour component (hence my concern), but I have not experienced this again.

For around the last 25 years of smoking I rolled my own; initially to reduce consumption, but after a while I found I could no longer stomach the taste of the chemical additives in pre-made cigarette paper. This became more pronounced after I discovered un-bleached 'Hemp' rolling papers which seemed to have no taste at all - even normal Rizlas had a strange taste after this.

For decades BT has been adding chemicals to cigarettes to improve combustion rates with no regard to the possible side-effects. Last I heard is that there is still a class action lawsuit in progress in the US by users claiming that they thought they were only smoking tobacco (to paraphrase loosely). Some of the current warnings they are now required to display are amusing, but the one that got me was 'Reduced Ignition Propensity' - this is probably the most innocuous way they could come up with to state 'We Put Less Of That Really Dangerous Shit In Here That WILL Kill You'. They of course do not state what the reduction is, or how much still remains. Or even what is used to promote 'ignition'.

I would not like to know a flavour's constituents purely to know which to avoid, it's more about the feeling of making an informed choice. Hell, if a particular flavour is nice enough, it may even be worth any percieved risk. But I would still like to know.

Reactions: Like 4


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