# Weekly Poll: If Government Banned Nicotine In Eliquid



## devdev

The recent email sent to retailers on the forum sets the background for this particular poll.

Let's assume that the government decided it was going to enforce the Medicines and Controlled Substances legislation and decided to penalise those in the unlawful possession of eliquid containing nicotine, without a valid prescription.

(I am posting a poll once a week, so this provides enough time for members to see it, and to collect results)


----------



## shabbar

Quit vaping ? Whaaaat , hell no

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## zaVaper

I would source nic by any means and petition and be generally miffed about it.


----------



## devdev

appreciate the feedback guys, but can you select an option in the poll as well


----------



## shabbar

Theres always the electric cabbage atty ??


----------



## shabbar

Will not vote option AnC


----------



## ET

it's also not that hard to grow tobacco locally btw


----------



## Silver

Good poll @devdev

I think its not so easy to just stop nicotine, so i think either people will go back to stinkies if they cant get hold of ejuice or they will get it from those retailers taking a chance.

On the issue of a prescription, who would prescribe such a prescription? The doctor? And then i assume they would require cigarettes also to have a prescription?

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Tom

This would just be plain stupid. The government cant control dagga, one can get it from any street corner or petrol attendant.... how do they want to regulate something so minor as nicotine???

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9195 mit Tapatalk


----------



## BhavZ

Silver said:


> Good poll @devdev
> 
> I think its not so easy to just stop nicotine, so i think either people will go back to stinkies if they cant get hold of ejuice or they will get it from those retailers taking a chance.
> 
> On the issue of a prescription, who would prescribe such a prescription? The doctor? And then i assume they would require cigarettes also to have a prescription?


Cigarettes are regulated, the issue is around freely available nicotine and their attempt to regulate it. 

If a substance can be regulated, it can be taxed. And as we all know, GVT wants tax. To regulate something like nicotine it wouldn't just be a quick law impose, it would have to go through the UN and WHO as we are members of both and medical substances cannot be restricted if it can aid a better quality of life, it infringes upon our rights to life and quality of life.

Secondly, if liquid nicotine is to be regulated it would regulated to the same standard as that of cigarettes, so anything above the strongest pack of cigarettes would be regulated, anything below that would not be. The argument also boils down to purpose, if it is for the sole reason of quitting smoking then the medical industry can be involved, but if it is marketed as an alternative to smoking, i.e. a different type of indulgence then commercial aspect of the law would come into play and not the medical industry.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Gazzacpt

devdev said:


> appreciate the feedback guys, but can you select an option in the poll as well



Sir the poll does not show on tapatalk, or am I being doff?


----------



## devdev

Hi Gazza, it doesn't unfortunately


----------



## Gazzacpt

devdev said:


> Hi Gazza, it doesn't unfortunately


In the spirit of this thread its time to petition Tapatalk

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


----------



## Andre

BhavZ said:


> Cigarettes are regulated, the issue is around freely available nicotine and their attempt to regulate it.
> 
> If a substance can be regulated, it can be taxed. And as we all know, GVT wants tax. To regulate something like nicotine it wouldn't just be a quick law impose, it would have to go through the UN and WHO as we are members of both and medical substances cannot be restricted if it can aid a better quality of life, it infringes upon our rights to life and quality of life.
> 
> Secondly, if liquid nicotine is to be regulated it would regulated to the same standard as that of cigarettes, so anything above the strongest pack of cigarettes would be regulated, anything below that would not be. The argument also boils down to purpose, if it is for the sole reason of quitting smoking then the medical industry can be involved, but if it is marketed as an alternative to smoking, i.e. a different type of indulgence then commercial aspect of the law would come into play and not the medical industry.


Nicotine is already a regulated substance in South Africa, the regulation is just not applied consistently if at all. Both the UN and WHO are advisory bodies - our Government certainly do not need their permission to legislate.


----------



## devdev

Yes @Matthee is correct. As things stand the Medicines Control Council has declared nicotine to be a controlled substance meaning it needs to have been dispensed to you by a chemist, under a doctor's prescription.

Purchase, sale, manufacture or possession of any substance containing levels of nicotine beyond trace or naturally occurring amounts is unlawful according to the legislation. I think that the purpose of this banning is probably related to the highly addictive nature of nicotine and the need to ensure that it is regulated, monitored and controlled.

Obviously with regular Tobacco things become a bit more complicated, but since this is governed by a different set of legislation (viewable here) it is not right to say that the law as it relates to eliquid (or nicotine containing substances) is the same law that applies to tobacco products.

The Vaping industry in SA seems to be forming some form of organisation to address this situation. Check out this thread if you are interested: http://www.ecigssa.co.za/threads/vendors-i-think-this-ones-for-all-of-us.1642/page-2#post-37809

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Chop007

I would go absolutely BOSS, I would make certain that life became very uncomfortable for those involved in banning a substance found in everything, including fruit. Everyone has secrets and if those secrets are revealed it could make their political, doctoral etc, careers, very short indeed. There are many ways to skin a cat.

There are flippen Nigerian drug dealers living up the road from me, poisoning our youth with TIK and other nonsense. There are ministers in government building huge mansions on our hard earned buck. There are pharmaceutical companies pushing anti-depression medications are cures to stinky sucking, while some work, the negative side effects are actually far worse than smoking, but they push it because it is big bucks. I would certainly go underground and become stealth. Guy Fawkes would have nothing on me. Take away my freedom to vape, and I will reply with deadly force. It is not just the fact they take it away that bothers me, it is the whole underhanded, unscientific basis on which they do it, and the greed involved that really pees me off. This would be the cherry on top of the cake for me, just the thing to push me over the edge. 

For long enough I have seen children starve in the informal settlements, people crapping in buckets and living in tin shacks while eating the waste of a greedy society. And now they will take our freedom to vape, an innocent, effective solution to stopping smoking. Do this, and they WILL be sorry. This is not a threat it is a promise, DO NOT MESS WITH THOSE THAT FEED, CLOTHE AND KEEP YOUR BELLIES FULL.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2


----------



## Vape SA

Hi Guys,

Its a pity that my first post on this forum is about the subject I hate most. Vape Politics. Now Im not sure If I can speak for all the vendors and vapers on this forum but we are inevitably faced with a double edged sword.

Us as vapers are starting a noticeable movement towards an "ecig norm", I remember about 2 years ago when I started vaping with my "cig a like" the looks I got, now I still get them when I run around with my VTR, but I see more and more vapers everyday and now when you say its an electronic cigarette people aren't shocked anymore they say oh I have heard of those.

This is a good thing, that means us as vendors and us as vapers are getting the word out vaping works and makes a difference. Problem time....

If this doesn't get taken up on the right time, on the right platform we will be introducing sin taxes onto all vaping products, and that's one of the better case scenarios. 

The genuinely unfair part about all of this is that we will need to defend the vaping benefits, every single one of us has experienced, to an overpaid official who has probably never smoked a cigarette in their lives and if it goes any further, will depend on their decision. 

At the end of the day. Right now is the time to start preparing. The inevitable is coming, we just need to be ready to bombard back at the right time.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


----------



## Andre

Vape SA said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Its a pity that my first post on this forum is about the subject I hate most. Vape Politics. Now Im not sure If I can speak for all the vendors and vapers on this forum but we are inevitably faced with a double edge sword.
> 
> Us as vapers are starting a noticeable movement towards an "ecig norm" I remember about 2 years ago when I started vaping with my "cig a like" the looks I got, now I still get them when I run around with my VTR, but I see more and more vapers everyday and now when you say its an electronic cigarette people arent shocked anymore they say oh I have heard of those.
> 
> This is a good thing, that means us as vendors and us as vapers are getting the word out vapimg works and makes a difference. Problem time....
> 
> If this doesnt get taken up on the right time, on the right platform we will be introducing sin taxes onto all vaping products, and thats one of the better case scenarios.
> 
> The genuinely unfair part about all of this is that we will need to defend the vaping benefits every single one of us has experienced to an overpaid official who has probably never smoked a cigarette in their lives and if it goes any further, will depend on their decision.
> 
> At the end of the day. Right now is the time to start preparing. The inevitable is coming, we just need to be ready to bombard back at the right time.


There was a thread on some peeps starting a concerted effort, but cannot find it now. Thought it was on the Vapeking forum.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Vape SA

Matthee said:


> There was a thread on some peeps starting a concerted effort, but cannot find it now. Thought it was on the Vapeking forum.


Thanks. We are definitely keen on adding anything from our side if at all possible. @Gizmo, welcome to mail me with the info.


----------



## Silver

Welcome to the forum @Vape SA !
Glad you got sorted out with your application process
I agree with your comments.

For the benefit of other members and when you get a chance if you havent done so already, please go introduce yourself in the "introduce yourselves" thread under the "newbies corner" section.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## Reinvanhardt

Welcome to the forum @Vape SA. We hope to see plenty of you in the future

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


----------



## Riaz

thank the Lord for skyblue for bringing in tons of nic

now none of us have to worry about this

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Just B

This is just my opinion.

Mother Theresa said "I will not march against war but I will march for peace". Tremendous amount of wisdom in those words. We as vendors and vapours need to take action now before the uninformed take action for us. Our government is what it is, but right now I feel we need to approach the powers that be with our suggestions and solutions. Let's be proactive on this one and be part of the solution and not part of the problem. Let's change ideas, change minds and change perceptions.

I am sure there are many educated and professional people who are part of this very forum who could be key players in diplomatically presenting our suggestions or proposals to those who are in the position to make the relevant decisions.

I think we all agree laws, rules and regulations are definitely important to our well being and society, so let's work with them and not wait until the law is passed where we have to work against it and fight for what we perceive as our God given rights.

Reactions: Agree 3


----------



## crack2483

Well, we have radio celebrities and tv celebrities too 

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Just B

I just feel we have to change views and perceptions. Ignorance is a terrible thing and one that only induces incorrect assumptions and opinions. For example I would ban Ritalin and Prozac and any other drugs as I think they are all terribly wrong BUT I have never ever had to rely on them. I am sure if I had had a need for them, my views would be quite different.

Let's move away from being associated with "smokers". We do not fall under the same banner. We are Vapers and stand tall and proud. We are part of a healthy way of living and that is what we need people to see and associate with what we do, and we need to do this through every means possible - radio, TV, printed media etc.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Chop007

Now, what I truly cannot understand is why they would make Nicotine in Ecig juice a prescription only rule. They would then have to put stinkies in the same frame. In fact, Coffee, Tea, Oranges, etc etc etc all contain trace amounts of Nicotine. 

The only fact of the matter is that some in power will do anything to increase their Capital, regardless of what scientific factors are involved. The only point at which they will listen is when their nuts are caught in a vice and they are forced to make concessions. I am all for peaceful protest, but 1)Smokers actually do not give a darn, well, many who have not seen or heard of vaping that do not know the benefits, 2)The only ones who actually know how effective vaping is in stopping smoking, are us vapers, who are in a small minority, 3)At the present time we are a small minority which means our voice is not heard above the huge corporations who control us like sheep.

By the time future vapers(ex-smokers) find out what benefits vaping has, the whole laws have already changed and big chemist/government agencies are Capitalizing at our cost. Excuse me but this really angers me, when greedy pigs try and kill a good thing for no reason and then also profit from it.....big time. While those of us that started out at the bottom and slowly built up Vape Stores and a dedicated following, through hard work and service to the vaping community, are simply cut out the loop. On top of that, these small yet awesome vape supply stores/people, will also lose huge Capital trying to fight against biased and illegitimate legislation. That seriously drives me nuts.

What does one do when the country you love, takes something innocent and criminalizes it for their greedy profit? What I will do is fight against it, being an individual, that takes Che Guevara tactics. I will support the suppliers in any way possible, even marching in my birthday suite to parliament if needs be with my Chi-You clone clasped firmly between my lips. But when the time comes, I WILL NOT abide by immoral and unscientific laws and will resist them in any way possible even if that means the perception of freedom is removed from me. 

I can guarantee that by imposing this law, they will just drive nicotine usage underground and be empowering criminal elements within our society. Their end goal of obtaining future profits will not be gained either in it's entirety. But, regardless, I will never support the tobacco industry ever again, the most sneaky underhanded and deadly organization on this planet today, in cahoots with arms dealers across the globe.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## Andre

Just "B" said:


> Let's move away from being associated with "smokers". We do not fall under the same banner. We are Vapers and stand tall and proud.


I so agree with that statement. We have had a discussion about this forum's name and all agreed that the "ecig" tag is to be changed at some future time. Have a look at the names of local vendors (just those on the forum). How many sport the "ecig" tag? Maybe the future time is now?

Reactions: Agree 5


----------



## Silver

A while back, i spoke with @Oupa and he mentioned something along the lines of starting a South African eLiquid association. This may have been touched on again in this thread. 

I think the eLiquid association would be a great vehicle to get going and for that entity to engage with government in the correct way. 

Not sure if anything has developed on that front?

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


----------



## Just B

As it is I am busy setting up such an association. Have a few contacts within the government (for NPO numbers etc) but they have assured me they can get me in contact with the right people once I have all my ducks in a row. 

I am pushing to have this wrapped up as quickly as possible so that we, as a group, can help set the rules and regulations.

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 2


----------



## devdev

Well I have made my views on this very well known, and it seemed the response I got at the time ranged from 'not interested' to 'frosty' to 'yes, but not now...'

I still think it is something that we should implement sooner rather than later. We already have an uphill battle to convince the public that vaping is not smoking, at the same time we should move as far away from anything to do with 'cigarette' as possible

Reactions: Agree 4


----------



## johan

My 2c: Get the rules of "discipline" NOW together, before being disciplined by an authority without knowledge and/or experience!

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## Just B

Agree 100% with you @johan.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Warlock

* Make some sort of arrangement to source nicotine by questionable means*. I grew tobacco in my veggie patch to keep pests at bay. Next step would be to get the nicotine out of it.

Reactions: Creative 1


----------



## Vape Starter

I think there is a greater chance that e liquid with nicotine will be subjected to "sin tax" rather than them banning the product.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------

