# What is High End Gear? Is it worth it?



## Paulie

Hey all,

So i have had alot of people ask me this question.

Over the next few days i will be explaining a few things here to maby help clarify a few things 

1) What is HE?
For a lot of people they first think that it is vape gear thats just got a massive price tag on it? In a way this is true as some of the gear being sold can be sold at a crazy amount of say $4000! But since i have started to get to understand this side of the industry i am starting to see that its not only about the price but also being in the right group or just catching a great deal on a new or old product! For example the USA and Europe have created groups where people can join and then ask to be added to build lists for new products. What makes it difficult is getting into the groups and also making it onto the build lists as the demand is massive! So it is possible to get HE products at a reasonable price considering you are in the right group at the right time i have seen. The HE groups is a whole new world of underground vaping that i think that one of the reasons it is there is due to the issues people are having with the FDA and other organisations that are trying to stop us from Vaping! A simple way to look at this is (High Demannd + Low Supply = Increased price on goods being sold second hand or new)

2) HE Products?
This is simple as you generally find massive innovation linked to high quality products that are being made out of expensive material on a smaller scale. a good example of this is we see alot of products being made out of stablised wood with metals like Damascus and Tamascus steel in them.

I will add more topics here as we go i am keen to hear people thoughts on the above  Hope this helps

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## craigb

thanks @Paulie, looking forward to this.

I've seen @Rob Fisher talking about his HE orders, and yes, he raves about the stuff, but I still wonder - why? Apart from what you say about being in the right group at the right time, I'm assuming the HE stuff is going to be more expensive to some degree. If you were somehow able to quantify the vaping experience (VE), would HE gear be worth the $:VE ratio? 

So for example, if regular gear gives you a $1:VE1 experience, does high end gear improve that to a $1:VE2 ratio, or at least maintain parity, or does the VE slowly level out as you go into HE?

Long and short of it, for your general populace (average Joe Vape) is it worth saving that little bit longer to buy HE kit instead of shopping regular kit sooner? Is it akin to buying a 2L engine car instead of a 1600 of the same model? Or are we talking about choosing between a Polo and a Z4, or even a Maserati?

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## Clouds4Days

craigb said:


> thanks @Paulie, looking forward to this.
> 
> I've seen @Rob Fisher talking about his HE orders, and yes, he raves about the stuff, but I still wonder - why? Apart from what you say about being in the right group at the right time, I'm assuming the HE stuff is going to be more expensive to some degree. If you were somehow able to quantify the vaping experience (VE), would HE gear be worth the $:VE ratio?
> 
> So for example, if regular gear gives you a $1:VE1 experience, does high end gear improve that to a $1:VE2 ratio, or at least maintain parity, or does the VE slowly level out as you go into HE?
> 
> Long and short of it, for your general populace (average Joe Vape) is it worth saving that little bit longer to buy HE kit instead of shopping regular kit sooner? Is it akin to buying a 2L engine car instead of a 1600 of the same model? Or are we talking about choosing between a Polo and a Z4, or even a Maserati?



With Mods i think its not worth saving and waiting for. The only thing HE in a HE mod is the shell because they all come fitted with a dna200 or sx350j v2 chip and those only cost $70 so you paying for the shell and a logo (basically a maserati body with a Z4 engine )

Reactions: Agree 4 | Informative 1


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## Paulie

craigb said:


> thanks @Paulie, looking forward to this.
> 
> I've seen @Rob Fisher talking about his HE orders, and yes, he raves about the stuff, but I still wonder - why? Apart from what you say about being in the right group at the right time, I'm assuming the HE stuff is going to be more expensive to some degree. If you were somehow able to quantify the vaping experience (VE), would HE gear be worth the $:VE ratio?
> 
> So for example, if regular gear gives you a $1:VE1 experience, does high end gear improve that to a $1:VE2 ratio, or at least maintain parity, or does the VE slowly level out as you go into HE?
> 
> Long and short of it, for your general populace (average Joe Vape) is it worth saving that little bit longer to buy HE kit instead of shopping regular kit sooner? Is it akin to buying a 2L engine car instead of a 1600 of the same model? Or are we talking about choosing between a Polo and a Z4, or even a Maserati?




Great question! This is actually the most important question as alot of people would like to know if the experience is improved alot when buying such products!

Lets break it down like this:
1) Vape Quality (When it comes to this there is a difference in the vape quality when looking at RDA' RTA's and now we starting to see it in mods also)
RDA and RTAS: There massive innovation on this side where i do get more flavour from the HE products i have recently puchased. How much? Well we talking around 10-30% max better flavour in terms of the juices i am used to vaping i am noticing the elements in my juices are either smoother or more pronounced. Also with help of the latest coils compined with low power vaping its interesting to see how much it all changes.

Mods - Well this one you wont see a massive change as most of them use Yihi or DNA boards in them which can be found in the commercial products however i recent got a Dicode Board from Germany in one of my new HE mods and i am really enjoying the vape on it.


2) Product Quality - This is what HE is mostly about as the products you get are so well made and also the materials are alot nicer and need i say it but eye catching .

3) Value for money - I think for us South Africans it is difficult as our exchange rate is so bad so we paying alot more for products than rest of the world .

So an easy way to look at it is if you buy a car and the car gets you from A to B then why do you need to have a Ferrari? I for one have been vaping for almost 3 years now and am always wanting new gear and goodies as i love this industry and am always looking for the best vape! Do you really need a HE device? No! The commercial products are excellent and i still use alot of them myself!!

Hope this helps.

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## BubiSparks

As with anything high end, the law of diminishing returns applies. A R10 000 setup will not vape 10 times better than a R1000 setup - rather 5 or 10% better. It's the materials used and man-hours required that push up the price.

In my book HE applies to anything of high quality, that is not mass produced, and has intrinsic value due to an artisan or craftsman manufacturing the item.

Don't worry - No-one gets left out - Just get a @hands drip tip and you're in the club

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 5


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## Clouds4Days

Paulie said:


> Great question! This is actually the most important question as alot of people would like to know if the experience is improved alot when buying such products!
> 
> Lets break it down like this:
> 1) Vape Quality (When it comes to this there is a difference in the vape quality when looking at RDA' RTA's and now we starting to see it in mods also)
> RDA and RTAS: There massive innovation on this side where i do get more flavour from the HE products i have recently puchased. How much? Well we talking around 10-30% max better flavour in terms of the juices i am used to vaping i am noticing the elements in my juices are either smoother or more pronounced. Also with help of the latest coils compined with low power vaping its interesting to see how much it all changes.
> 
> Mods - Well this one you wont see a massive change as most of them use Yihi or DNA boards in them which can be found in the commercial products however i recent got a Dicode Board from Germany in one of my new HE mods and i am really enjoying the vape on it.
> 
> 
> 2) Product Quality - This is what HE is mostly about as the products you get are so well made and also the materials are alot nicer and need i say it but eye catching .
> 
> 3) Value for money - I think for us South Africans it is difficult as our exchange rate is so bad so we paying alot more for products than rest of the world .
> 
> So an easy way to look at it is if you buy a car and the car gets you from A to B then why do you need to have a Ferrari? I for one have been vaping for almost 3 years now and am always wanting new gear and goodies as i love this industry and am always looking for the best vape! Do you really need a HE device? No! The commercial products are excellent and i still use alot of them myself!!
> 
> Hope this helps.



Nice Write up ther @Paulie
I think this is very helpful to the community.

As i see alot of people including myself see all this high end gear and start calculating $500 for mod, $200 for tank
Total $700

In all essence all you really need to get a better vape is the tank.

But the Mods without a doubt are beautiful pieces of art.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Thanks 1


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## craigb

BubiSparks said:


> Just get a @hands drip tip and you're in the club



That is soooo on the to buy list already.



Paulie said:


> Well we talking around 10-30% max better flavour



That is actually a substantial improvement. And it breaks away from the car comparison, because Ferrari's are _technically _limited to the same speed laws as cortina's - hence the extra price is less warranted. But that much improvement in experience on a vape, along with the aesthetics improvement, does then leave one inclined to save that little bit longer for the better product.



Clouds4Days said:


> so you paying for the shell and a logo



Agreed, although some of those shells are sooooo awesomely beautiful, that the uniqueness bumps up the implied value to the individual user. I suppose "commerical" mods, tanks, accessories are there to meet your basic needs. While HE is there to cover the needs, tickle your wants with the side effect of being able to expect better build quality and experience. So Steers vs Roco Mama's?

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## Silver

Thanks for starting this thread @Paulie and making the effort to explain some of this.
Am finding it very interesting

I find it fascinating how the vaping journey can be so different for different vapers: 

Some (like my dear wife) have been vaping on the exact same mod, clearo and juice for over a year and they are happy. No need to make things complicated. It must just work and it replaces cigarettes. Done. 

Others enjoy sampling all the gear and have a softness for mods. Others prefer using the same mods and vary the tanks. 

Some get more involved in building exotic coils - while others spend massive time on DIY and perfecting their own recipes. 

Some do all of the above in varying degrees. 
I suppose some vapers then want something else. Perhaps to have a mod or a tank that is of higher quality than the more readily available gear. Perhaps also the attraction of having something that is hard to get. And also chasing an improved vape experience. I guess this is where HE comes in.

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## Yagya

Nicely said there @Silver.
My HE mod (joe soap he) is the V2 Raw. It does every so much better than the previous mods I owned.

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## Silver

Yagya said:


> Nicely said there @Silver.
> My HE mod (joe soap he) is the V2 Raw. It does every so much better than the previous mods I owned.



Lol, when I got my HotCig 150 with the abalone plates - I thought I was really rocking it big time!!!
At least the driptip is high end!

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## craigb

Silver said:


> At least the driptip is high end!



Yes, it's on the high end of the device

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## Huffapuff

TL/DR, but I think HE gear moves beyond the simple dollar value of the product and ventures more into the collector/connoisseur territory. Here people are prepared to pay a premium for rare items that aren't easily available.

Just think of how excited you get when browsing for a new mod or atty online - now imagine that experience in a small, hard-to-get-into clique where you have greater personal control over the creation of your own unique item. Then the wait for it to arrive, the unboxing, the tinkering and of course the pictures posted to the vape mail thread 

I think that's more of what HE is about - the appeal of something special and unique that the average vaper can't get their hands on.

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## Rob Fisher

The Law of diminishing returns certainly applies here and the cost of HE vs normal does not translate to the percentage improvement.

But the fact I now have a tank that does not leak... not even one drop ever after nearly a 100 refills makes it worth the cost. Not one tank (well one that produces a half decent vape) in all the tanks I have owned and played with cannot boast that fact. And the fact that it's the best vape (albeit a small improvement) I have had on a tank makes it worth it.

Am I going to be as lucky with the other HE stuff I get? I certainly hope so... will my HE Mods on the way vape better than a normal 350J V2 commercial mod? No it won't... it should vape exactly the same... but will it be a piece of art created in very limited quantities by a master craftsman... it sure will!

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## craigb

Silver said:


> Lol, when I got my HotCig 150 with the abalone plates - I thought I was really rocking it big time!!!
> At least the driptip is high end!



It all makes sense now

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## Silver

Lol @craigb !

Anyway, I was just so proud when I posted that pic - I thought, now I have the gear that not only is high quality but looks good and performs nicely! 

And now look what's happened.... 
Average and low end gear....

hehe

At least I have the drip tip!

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## Deckie

Silver said:


> Lol @craigb !
> 
> Anyway, I was just so proud when I posted that pic - I thought, now I have the gear that not only is high quality but looks good and performs nicely!
> 
> And now look what's happened....
> Average and low end gear....
> 
> hehe
> 
> At least I have the drip tip!


@Rob Fisher used to say -"If it can't take a @hands drip tip then it's a deal breaker".

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## Scissorhands

Silver said:


> Lol, when I got my HotCig 150 with the abalone plates - I thought I was really rocking it big time!!!
> At least the driptip is high end!


Off topic/ Good day @Silver , have you ever considered swoping out your SM25's O rings for the blue ones? This would greatly suppress my OCD . Cheers

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## Rob Fisher

Deckie said:


> @Rob Fisher used to say -"If it can't take a @hands drip tip then it's a deal breaker".



That's still a deal breaker... but happily @hands is already working on drip tips for my Skyline and my Hussar's!

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## M5000

@Silver that is a superb looking setup! 

High end anything is a similar story, if you get it you will understand it and appreciate it, and if you don't then it won't make sense to you. The man with the stabilised wood dna mod and the Rolex is having the same vape and seeing the same time as the guy with the unstabilised plastic dna mod and the Casio, but there are always differences and often you can only see them on close inspection at which point you will probably either say wow or wth. I think at this point other than accuracy to 1/10000th second or whatever, it should be understood that like an expensive watch thst won't make you live longer or give you an extra hour in your day, HE gear is more about the passion and uniqueness and attention to detail than being some magical vape. So this discussion can be more about identifying and definining the concept and clarifying the criteria instead of justifying it.

Anyway just my thoughts since I often see people questioning the 'need' for it. There is no 'need' for it, that ship has sailed, this place should be more about showcasing and appreciating and admiring the HE gear.

So qualification-wise, what production number would be appropriate? 1 of 100 or like 1 of 1500? I have no idea about the numbers of limited productions.

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## Huffapuff

M5000 said:


> it should be understood that like an expensive watch thst won't make you live longer or give you an extra hour in your day


I like that  Well said.

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## incredible_hullk

Silver said:


> Lol, when I got my HotCig 150 with the abalone plates - I thought I was really rocking it big time!!!
> At least the driptip is high end!


call me shallow @Silver but to me HE must be sexy and that is sexy right there

Reactions: Thanks 1


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## incredible_hullk

to me HE is about being an individual like wearing a tailored suit with a mont blanc in pocket and breitling on wrist. its not abt how others feel abt it but how u as a person feel abt it, the emotions that it provides.

is it worth the money - 1 HE for sure with the provisio but it must tick (usability, portability and flavour) all the boxes and i must keep it forever. 

maynot be HE to others but to me my leprechaun is HE as thats how it makes me feel.

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## Petrus

HE gear for me is atty's, for I am a squonker. The Snapdragon and Odis for example is out of this world, and yes, you can't buy it at a local vendor because of supply and demand. A P67 IMO is high end, at this point in time it is more difficult to lay your hands on a P67 than a Stab Wood, in fact it is quite easy to get a SVA. So yes, I like the HE game. I know we both got 2.0 litre turbo diesel engines, but I just love the extras of my Maserati, but you are very happy with your BMW. Vape on Gentlemen and be happy.

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## Viper_SA

Don't crucify me here, but does an authentic Odin vape better than a clone Odin, in my book; NO. Does it last longer, with better screws? Sometimes. Can I buy 10 clones instead of an authentic? Most times. Will the authentic outlast the clone? Maybe, but by the time the clone breaks, 10 new drippers will be available, all supposedly better. I bet a lot of you are hitting Google right about now to see what the hell an Odin is. To me HE is all about bling bling. You like it, you pay for it. You think it's crazy, you skip it. I draw the line at R2k for a mod. It's still an electronic thingy, and we all know they never last forever. Think how screwed we'd all be if someone changed the threads or size of a 510 to force us to buy new gear..... I will however pay much much more for sounds systems, swords, rifles etc, but my salary doesn't allow for it. Which is why I do my best tonlove the things I have, and not not have the things I love.

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## incredible_hullk

and heres the other thing - i quit stinkies for 2 things: cost and health. HE stuff negates the cost saving and in fact makes it much more expensive

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## Paulie

Please note this is not a discussion on clones vs authentic but HE only also I think it's important to note that most of us do this for the hobby now and not just as way to stop or we prob would have lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## Petrus

I agree @Paulie, that is why I smoked Camel and not Princeton or Savanna, personal choice.

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## kev mac

Paulie said:


> Hey all,
> 
> So i have had alot of people ask me this question.
> 
> Over the next few days i will be explaining a few things here to maby help clarify a few things
> 
> 1) What is HE?
> For a lot of people they first think that it is vape gear thats just got a massive price tag on it? In a way this is true as some of the gear being sold can be sold at a crazy amount of say $4000! But since i have started to get to understand this side of the industry i am starting to see that its not only about the price but also being in the right group or just catching a great deal on a new or old product! For example the USA and Europe have created groups where people can join and then ask to be added to build lists for new products. What makes it difficult is getting into the groups and also making it onto the build lists as the demand is massive! So it is possible to get HE products at a reasonable price considering you are in the right group at the right time i have seen. The HE groups is a whole new world of underground vaping that i think that one of the reasons it is there is due to the issues people are having with the FDA and other organisations that are trying to stop us from Vaping! A simple way to look at this is (High Demannd + Low Supply = Increased price on goods being sold second hand or new)
> 
> 2) HE Products?
> This is simple as you generally find massive innovation linked to high quality products that are being made out of expensive material on a smaller scale. a good example of this is we see alot of products being made out of stablised wood with metals like Damascus and Tamascus steel in them.
> 
> I will add more topics here as we go i am keen to hear people thoughts on the above  Hope this helps


This subject has interested me in many areas,not just vapeing. I know people who have spent more on car rims than others cars are worth,looks nice but doesn't make the engine run better.A good RDA can be had for fifty or so bucks.The O atty cost around one sixty, I am aware of machining and all but does it vape a hundred or more dollars better?


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## Rob Fisher

There was bound to be the comparison... and I won't be getting into that clone discussion because it rather emotive and counter productive... as @Paulie said this is about HE... I have long since said goodbye to the stinkies and it's no longer about smoking cessation (well for me anyway)... Vaping saved my life (yes dramatic I know but it's true) and is now a hobby (or as my wife says it's an obsession and that it may well be)... I love the eternal search for the perfect vape and I love the innovation and the benefits it brings us especially in the flavour department.

I am lucky that I can afford some of the finer things in life... actually luck had very little to do with it... it was really hard work (but that's a story for another time)...

That being said I love testing and playing with all gear... today I got the Minkin Boost and it has a SM25 on top and it's a mighty fine setup! And at the same time I'm still searching for my next HE device.

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## Viper_SA

I just used the clone vs. authentic as a way to show the difference in quality between HE and NE (normal end). No offense meant, no debate meant. Just meant to say that HE is nice to have, not the be-all-end-all.

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## Paulie

Viper_SA said:


> I just used the clone vs. authentic as a way to show the difference in quality between HE and NE (normal end). No offense meant, no debate meant. Just meant to say that HE is nice to have, not the be-all-end-all.



Ahh sorry this makes more sense sorry i didnt want a clone vs auth war we had lots of those on ere lol


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## johan

Reading through the above, here's my wind-egg: don't be _penny wise pound foolish_. 99% of all high end gear will outlast cheap shite (clones) in years. I'm still using "high end gear" after 3 years while cheap waste are piling up in the land fill.

Reactions: Agree 4


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## Deckie

Rob Fisher said:


> That's still a deal breaker... but happily @hands is already working on drip tips for my Skyline and my Hussar's!


In true spirit

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## hands

HE anything is more costly and out of reach of most of us, even if we cant afford it we benefit from it. As time passes others use there ideas and incorporate it in there products and also make it cheaper. Using cars as an example, the latest and greatest are on the race tracks and within a few years we benefit from better fuel economy and being saver on the road. 
I would like to thank those companies who stick there necks out at a huge risk and use there creativity, mechanical and artistic skills to move this industry forward.

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## Petrus

Just an example of a high end mech squonker and split atty. You won't find it at any vendor, not even international. Only way to get your hands on it is through a FB group. I am friends with a guy in Italy who are connected, that is unfortunately how the HE group works. I still sukkel for nearly two years now to get a damn FRANKIE!!!

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## n0ugh7_zw

TBH isn't like how it is with most enthusiast grade stuff?

Just because the price is higher and the materials are better, doesn't necessarily mean its better. in other words theres still some lemons to be had, that said when the stuff really is good, its really really good?


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## Petrus

n0ugh7_zw said:


> TBH isn't like how it is with most enthusiast grade stuff?
> 
> Just because the price is higher and the materials are better, doesn't necessarily mean its better. in other words theres still some lemons to be had, that said when the stuff really is good, its really really good?


I like your comment. In the UK the squokers just rave about the Pico sqeez. Most of their vendors are out of stock. In most of their vape pics, you will always or most of the times see a Pico amongst some very high end gear.


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## Petrus



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## n0ugh7_zw

Petrus said:


> I like your comment. In the UK the squokers just rave about the Pico sqeez. Most of their vendors are out of stock. In most of their vape pics, you will always or most of the times see a Pico amongst some very high end gear.



TBH my favourite squonker is still the dripbox 160W, for the way i vape, there just isn't anything that fits better.... yet.

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## Lord Vetinari

I WOKE UP TO LOSING MY FAVORITE MOD.

I am ordering some DNA boards and building myself. Screw paying dollars and USA shipping. Since when do they have better artisans?

My dad was a Knysna boy and where we come from if you want something decent BUILD IT YOURSELF.

I am going into what people call High End. But I just call it Not Made By The Lowest Chinese Bidder.

I am soooooo upset. A year journey. My daughter even painted all over it, fantastic times.


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## Trimerion

The Luggage said:


> I WOKE UP TO LOSING MY FAVORITE MOD.
> 
> I am ordering some DNA boards and building myself. Screw paying dollars and USA shipping. Since when do they have better artisans?
> 
> My dad was a Knysna boy and where we come from if you want something decent BUILD IT YOURSELF.
> 
> I am going into what people call High End. But I just call it Not Made By The Lowest Chinese Bidder.
> 
> I am soooooo upset. A year journey. My daughter even painted all over it, fantastic times.



what happened Luggage? did something on it break?


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## Lord Vetinari

Trimerion said:


> what happened Luggage? did something on it break?


Yeah the board said goodbye. Just decided that this was absolutely the last toot forever and ever. So it will be DNA boards only now. Sigh...


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## Spydro

There will be as many opinions of what HE means as there are folks posting them. Some relate to the availability, some the cost, some the quality of materials, some the quality of the build, some the vaping experience from them, and so on.

To me HE is authentic very well designed and made gear from quality materials that flawlessly gets the job done it was built to do. Most of mine that I consider HE were pricey, but price doesn't matter to me for what I see as the best. Most were produced in limited numbers, but some were semi mass produced by the hundreds up to maybe thousands. Like @Silver I still consider the lowly authentic BF RM2 an HE atty because it delivers with little fuss or muss, so it has a very large following yet is still sold for the pocket change it always has been by Reosmods. I have 8 of them that includes two from the early rare different version and one custom milled specifically for one of my early Woodvil's. 

Massive interest in gear with very minimal availability is unicorn gear IMO. Rare doesn't necessarily make gear HE. But they are usually more to way more expensive than the norm and made with quality material and a quality build that may or may not improve the vaping experience. This is collectors gear, ego driven for pride of ownership, bragging rights. It may even be considered investment grade gear by some folks as it holds its value much longer and might even increase in value. As someone who collected many different fine and rare things most of his life that carried over to vaping and I have some "high end" unicorns from top rated vape gear MFG's. From a 1 of 1 prototype that will always be the only one in existence; a 1 of 3 prototype version for a very limited model that the 3 is all there will ever be; a very limited edition that was only made once in very small quantity; other very limited editions. They were all more to way more expensive versions from MFG's well known for their quality proven gear. But they do not improve the quality of the vape itself above what the standard models from these MFG's do very well except for pride of ownership. So was the one that cost three times what the fairly expensive standard model cost worth the price of admission? As a collector it is IMO when an estimated 3000 people worldwide wanted the 89 available (that were sold out in less than 2 minutes). I have the lowest serial number offered, it's still brand new 2.5 years later. But as a vaper it doesn't do anything better than the standard model it was derived from. Or a limited edition atty that I paid $285 for, well over what it cost new. The law of supply and demand... I wanted one. Last I heard some folks will pay up to $500 for one. I didn't buy it as an investment, turned down a $350 offer soon after I got it (and haven't used it for well over a year). I have 4 other limited production HE RTA's I paid $275-$300 each for that lost value due to exchange rates. Matters not to me, I still consider them the best RTA's I own even though I haven't used them for about 2.5 years.

Another thought about HE... the increasing insurgence of wood incorporated in mods. There are few natural materials that can compete with high grade woods for shear beauty and uniqueness. And the higher the grade of wood used the closer they become to or do become one of a kind. Many of the so called HE mods that have wood elements or are mostly made from wood are made from standard to select grade woods that are relatively very inexpensive woods. Yet the price of these mods are kicked up as much as hundreds of dollars for very little extra cost in materials to produce them. Commonly used is woods that are dyed and stabilized to look good instead of the MFG paying the high cost for truly high grade woods that do not need to be dyed or stabilized to be one of a kind works of art. There are some MFG's who do go part way up the wood grade ladder, but very few who go all the way to 1A to 5A exhibition grade wood that is actually worth the high prices asked for the mods. There are endless examples on MFG websites where a same model mods price can vary up to hundreds of dollars because of how the standard/select grade wood turned out when finished. If it looks good, kick up the price. Unfortunately that includes the Reo Woodvile's that are standard to lower select grade woods, but at least Robert didn't gouge buyers at the price they were sold for. His prices were set in a narrow range to reflect what was standard grade and what was select grade wood.

Naturally your mileage may very, nothing wrong with that, it just my opinion. I base it on personal experience from 45 months vaping, the very large inventory of vape gear I have, and for the woods from crafting select to 5A exhibition exotic woods for over 50 years.

Reactions: Like 3 | Winner 7 | Informative 1


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## n0ugh7_zw

The Luggage said:


> Yeah the board said goodbye. Just decided that this was absolutely the last toot forever and ever. So it will be DNA boards only now. Sigh...



DNA boards have been known to do the same exact thing, be warned. AFAIK the most reliable board around is the YIHI SX series of boards.

But @Spydro and @Silver nailed it. high end is less about cost, and more about just getting the job done, while having to endure as little hassle as possible.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Lord Vetinari

n0ugh7_zw said:


> DNA boards have been known to do the same exact thing, be warned. AFAIK the most reliable board around is the YIHI SX series of boards.


I just so happen to have a YIHI board in the cupboard. WIN. Accepted it as payment from a defaulting client a while back. Never reckoned I would find a use. Thanks mate. Win win win!!!

Reactions: Winner 2


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## n0ugh7_zw

The Luggage said:


> I just so happen to have a YIHI board in the cupboard. WIN. Accepted it as payment from a defaulting client a while back. Never reckoned I would find a use. Thanks mate. Win win win!!!



They're very nice, i'm running a SX350J-V1 bit of a curve with getting used to them, but they're excellent.


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## Lord Vetinari

Spydro said:


> There will be as many opinions of what HE means as there are folks posting them. Some relate to the availability, some the cost, some the quality of materials, some the quality of the build, some the vaping experience from them, and so on.
> 
> To me HE is authentic very well designed and made gear from quality materials that flawlessly gets the job done it was built to do. Most of mine that I consider HE were pricey, but price doesn't matter to me for what I see as the best. Most were produced in limited numbers, but some were semi mass produced by the hundreds up to maybe thousands. Like @Silver I still consider the lowly authentic BF RM2 an HE atty because it delivers with little fuss or muss, so it has a very large following yet is still sold for the pocket change it always has been by Reosmods. I have 8 of them that includes two from the early rare different version and one custom milled specifically for one of my early Woodvil's.
> 
> Massive interest in gear with very minimal availability is unicorn gear IMO. Rare doesn't necessarily make gear HE. But they are usually more to way more expensive than the norm and made with quality material and a quality build that may or may not improve the vaping experience. This is collectors gear, ego driven for pride of ownership, bragging rights. It may even be considered investment grade gear by some folks as it holds its value much longer and might even increase in value. As someone who collected many different fine and rare things most of his life that carried over to vaping and I have some "high end" unicorns from top rated vape gear MFG's. From a 1 of 1 prototype that will always be the only one in existence; a 1 of 3 prototype version for a very limited model that the 3 is all there will ever be; a very limited edition that was only made once in very small quantity; other very limited editions. They were all more to way more expensive versions from MFG's well known for their quality proven gear. But they do not improve the quality of the vape itself above what the standard models from these MFG's do very well except for pride of ownership. So was the one that cost three times what the fairly expensive standard model cost worth the price of admission? As a collector it is IMO when an estimated 3000 people worldwide wanted the 89 available (that were sold out in less than 2 minutes). I have the lowest serial number offered, it's still brand new 2.5 years later. But as a vaper it doesn't do anything better than the standard model it was derived from. Or a limited edition atty that I paid $285 for, well over what it cost new. The law of supply and demand... I wanted one. Last I heard some folks will pay up to $500 for one. I didn't buy it as an investment, turned down a $350 offer soon after I got it (and haven't used it for well over a year). I have 4 other limited production HE RTA's I paid $275-$300 each for that lost value due to exchange rates. Matters not to me, I still consider them the best RTA's I own even though I haven't used them for about 2.5 years.
> 
> Another thought about HE... the increasing insurgence of wood incorporated in mods. There are few natural materials that can compete with high grade woods for shear beauty and uniqueness. And the higher the grade of wood used the closer they become to or do become one of a kind. Many of the so called HE mods that have wood elements or are mostly made from wood are made from standard to select grade woods that are relatively very inexpensive woods. Yet the price of these mods are kicked up as much as hundreds of dollars for very little extra cost in materials to produce them. Commonly used is woods that are dyed and stabilized to look good instead of the MFG paying the high cost for truly high grade woods that do not need to be dyed or stabilized to be one of a kind works of art. There are some MFG's who do go part way up the wood grade ladder, but very few who go all the way to 1A to 5A exhibition grade wood that is actually worth the high prices asked for the mods. There are endless examples on MFG websites where a same model mods price can vary up to hundreds of dollars because of how the standard/select grade wood turned out when finished. If it looks good, kick up the price. Unfortunately that includes the Reo Woodvile's that are standard to lower select grade woods, but at least Robert didn't gouge buyers at the price they were sold for. His prices were set in a narrow range to reflect what was standard grade and what was select grade wood.
> 
> Naturally your mileage may very, nothing wrong with that, it just my opinion. I base it on personal experience from 45 months vaping, the very large inventory of vape gear I have, and for the woods from crafting select to 5A exhibition exotic woods for over 50 years.


You talk like a guitarist. That or a true lover of the female species. Either way, seems you know what quality really means.


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## gdigitel

To me HE can best be described using the fairer sex as an analogy. There are many different shapes and sizes available, most with the same innards and processing capabilities - I did say most. Some leak more than others, some are more prone to dry hits, some look gorgeous until the paint comes off but in essence they are the same creatures that have the same general purpose. This does not mean that you will be willing to spend most of your life with any one of the fairer sex(read between the lines, I'm trying to be subtle here). Often the women that really excel in most arenas and tick all your boxes do cost a little more. Now by cost I am not referring to money per se, although it could be taken literal in some cases. Some woman are very high maintenance and if that tickles you then so be it.
Cost could mean having to have wooed her for several years before getting regignition; it could mean having to endure a taxing mother-in-law; it could mean having to put up with housework demands instead of trying a new coil build; I'm sure you can think of more.
But man oh man, when you hold it/her in your hands and all else fades and everything feels just right, you then know what high end means.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## Spydro

The Luggage said:


> You talk like a guitarist. That or a true lover of the female species. Either way, seems you know what quality really means.



Guilty on both accounts. 
I started playing lead guitar in bands in the late 50's (still have one of my guitars that I bought new in 1972), and I also played keyboards well into the 90's. Music, fast cars and nice girls have always been a winning combination. I do have great respect for women, all women. And I have been very fortunate to have found two true loves in my life. Both the most beautiful ladies I have ever met... as beautiful as beautiful gets on the inside where it counts, and drop dead gorgeous on the outside as a bonus. I should not have met either of them, so it had to be fate. In both cases we were both at the same place at the exact 15 seconds of time where neither of us had ever been to before or would ever be at again as it turned out, and were not looking to met someone. The first was my life for 2.5 years, then part of my life for another 25 years until she died. The other was my life for almost 35, the mother of my son. I have not met anyone that could come close to replacing either of them in the last 14+ years. But I also haven't been looking for another long term relationship. When it comes to truly nice girls here it's the way too young ones that chase the old pharts like me (and the endless gold diggers of all ages).

Reactions: Like 3 | Winner 2


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## Clouds4Days

Spydro said:


> Guilty on both accounts.
> I started playing lead guitar in bands in the late 50's (still have one of my guitars that I bought new in 1972), and I also played keyboards well into the 90's. Music, fast cars and nice girls have always been a winning combination. I do have great respect for women, all women. And I have been very fortunate to have found two true loves in my life. Both the most beautiful ladies I have ever met... as beautiful as beautiful gets on the inside where it counts, and drop dead gorgeous on the outside as a bonus. I should not have met either of them, so it had to be fate. In both cases we were both at the same place at the exact 15 seconds of time where neither of us had ever been to before or would ever be at again as it turned out, and were not looking to met someone. The first was my life for 2.5 years, then part of my life for another 25 years until she died. The other was my life for almost 35, the mother of my son. I have not met anyone that could come close to replacing either of them in the last 14+ years. But I also haven't been looking for another long term relationship. When it comes to truly nice girls here it's the way too young ones that chase the old pharts like me (and the endless gold diggers of all ages).




That's really a sad and beautiful story @Spydro life truely is a journey.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Vape_r

@The Luggage isnt this like your fourth account or something on here?


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## dastrix550

A Breitling/IWC and a Seiko is going to tell you the same time when you look at your wrist. The workmanship and materials used on the Breitling/IWC will more than likely be of a higher quality and its mechanism will be that microsecond more accurate, but these are small aspects that is only going to be important to the watch enthusiast or collector. And there is the prestige connected to it.

I think the same goes for HE vaping gear, @Rob Fisher Skyline will be that fraction better, better build quality etc. than his beloved SM25, but Rob loves vaping, it's his passion. So for him spending that extra on RTA or a mod, in my opinion, is fully justified.

Would I buy HE vaping gear, maybe, but probably not, would I spend a R50k on a watch, more than likely.

HE gear is the realm of the enthusiast and serious collector.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1


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## Rob Fisher

dastrix550 said:


> A Breitling/IWC and a Seiko is going to tell you the same time when you look at your wrist. The workmanship and materials used on the Breitling/IWC will more than likely be of a higher quality and its mechanism will be that microsecond more accurate, but these are small aspects that is only going to be important to the watch enthusiast or collector. And there is the prestige connected to it.
> 
> I think the same goes for HE vaping gear, @Rob Fisher Skyline will be that fraction better, better build quality etc. than his beloved SM25, but Rob loves vaping, it's his passion. So for him spending that extra on RTA or a mod, in my opinion, is fully justified.
> 
> Would I buy HE vaping gear, maybe, but probably not, would I spend a R50k on a watch, more than likely.
> 
> HE gear is the realm of the enthusiast and serious collector.



100% @dastrix550! Actually the Skyline is off the charts engineering wise... the Hussar is beautiful and it has awesome accessories you can get for it and is very photogenic and also so far leakfree and the flavour fantastic. Hussar wins the beauty contest and the Skyline the engineering prize.

Reactions: Like 1


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