# Mixing for MTL



## Friep (31/12/17)

I mixed something just before I left on holiday a mint imperial kind of vibe will post the recipe when I get home and tweak the percentages a bit.

My question is the juice tastes awesome in my rda's big and small with big builds and diret lung hits mixed 70/30. On my goblin mini v3 with a 0.7 ohms coil and airflow turned down and mtl the flavour is lacking not getting the mint that strong or any of the flavours that well I know I should have gone with a 50/50 mix for mtl.
What other suggestions do you have for mixing for mtl? Higher % of flavour or would the 50/50 mix make that big of a difference?

I mixed the juice for my sister inlaw to help convert her to vaping but I failed on a few fronts with the creation of the juice.
Juice basically uses tfa peppermint 2 black ice and cap super sweat turned out great for me but nocked over the bottle when I mixed it so I am unsure of the % nic and flavour now I need to recreate it at home for myself again.

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## bjorncoetsee (31/12/17)

I asked the same question the other day. I moved over to mtl. I got the siren 2. I use it on a real tight draw, at 15watts. I upped my nic from 3mg to 16mg, mix 50 50, and i up the % of flavour by 30%. Most people say u dont need to up the % but to me, the taste is very muted if i dont up the %.
I went through 30ml a day, to about 3- 5ml a day

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## bjorncoetsee (31/12/17)

And also make simple recipes. 2-3 max flavours +sweetner and ws23

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## Friep (31/12/17)

bjorncoetsee said:


> I asked the same question the other day. I moved over to mtl. I got the siren 2. I use it on a real tight draw, at 15watts. I upped my nic from 3mg to 16mg, mix 50 50, and i up the % of flavour by 30%. Most people say u dont need to up the % but to me, the taste is very muted if i dont up the %.
> I went through 30ml a day, to about 3- 5ml a day



Thanks for the feedback will give it a test when I am home. This confirms a bit of my feeling that I need to increase the% especially because the siren is a proper mtl tank.

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## Friep (31/12/17)

I also know that when you look at the older recipes on elr a reduction in flavour is sometimes necessary for the newer setups.

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## Friep (31/12/17)

Then something else that bothers me is the throat hit on mtl setups my father-in-law needs the throat hit for him I mix 9 to 13mg but my sister-in-law does not like this and she prefers 3mg so my dilemma is my father-in-law gets the nic he needs my sister-in-law doesn't. Currently I am considering nic salts for her and my self to combat the harshness of higher nic vapes.

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## Silver (31/12/17)

Great thread @Friep , this is something I am also interested in and will be following
And thanks @bjorncoetsee for your comments

I am not a DIYer (got a few juices from my first mix steeping in the cupboard) but here are my observations from my setups over the years with commercial juices.

I do both MTL and restricted lung hit. I hardly do big air big lung hits but do them occasionally.
There is no question that as I go with more power and more air (ie in the direction away from MTL) then its better to have more VG and less nic.

For me, i have found the following as my current sweet spot for MTL.
RM2 tobacco strong MTL - 50/50 and 18mg. Some juices can be 12mg but any lower than that and its not enough throat hit. I find 70VG juices also dont work as nicely for me for the throat hit I want.

On the Siren V2 i had a 9mg version of Joose-e-liqz 70VG which I "nicced" up a bit with PG nic to about 12mg. So i estimate the final blend was about 60VG. It was definitely better, throat hit wise. But still not like a 50/50 18mg juice on the RM2.

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## Resistance (31/12/17)

@Friep @Silver don't know if this might help check that help teaching thread I put some info there on there. would all up the nic friep

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## Resistance (31/12/17)

@Friep @Silver @bjorncoetsee I don't have much experience yet buy have found that sometimes adding a drop or 2 of purified water works slightly better at times.its not always the case though.and sometimes the flavour changes along with the hit the longer it sits in the tank as if the heat of the coil alters the juice flavour.
recently I get more of a hit when I take long slow puffs

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## Friep (31/12/17)

Resistance said:


> @Friep @Silver @bjorncoetsee I don't have much experience yet buy have found that sometimes adding a drop or 2 of purified water works slightly better at times.its not always the case though.and sometimes the flavour changes along with the hit the longer it sits in the tank as if the heat of the coil alters the juice flavour.
> recently I get more of a hit when I take long slow puffs


Are you using distilled water? Know you can use that as a thinning solution. Just watch out for leaking on some of the newer rtas with thinner juice.

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## Resistance (31/12/17)

basically if it de-ionised or purified its all good.distilled would probably be better as there's no charge in the particles

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## Friep (31/12/17)

Resistance said:


> basically if it de-ionised or purified its all good.distilled would probably be better as there's no charge in the particles


What worries me a bit about purified water is that it might contain trace elements and nutrients and I am unsure about other chemicals that might have been uaed in the purification process. I have a bottle of distilled water in my mixing cabinet but haven't used it yet gave my old twisp to my sister-in-law but she gave up on it and wouldn't buy coils for it lol the distilled water was for making mixes for the twisp device.

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## Hooked (1/1/18)

Friep said:


> Then something else that bothers me is the throat hit on mtl setups my father-in-law needs the throat hit for him I mix 9 to 13mg but my sister-in-law does not like this and she prefers 3mg so my dilemma is my father-in-law gets the nic he needs my sister-in-law doesn't. Currently I am considering nic salts for her and my self to combat the harshness of higher nic vapes.



@Friep Get your father-in-law a Gusto Mini, it works with nicotine salts pods and the throat hit is amazing!!!

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## Resistance (1/1/18)

@Friep go with what you have and what you comfortable with.if you have distilled water then don't add more then a drop per 5ml....anyway that's my ratio

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## Resistance (1/1/18)

@Friep purified and de ionised is my way of saying distilled water.sorry for that

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## Hooked (1/1/18)

Friep said:


> What worries me a bit about purified water is that it might contain trace elements and nutrients and I am unsure about other chemicals that might have been uaed in the purification process. I have a bottle of distilled water in my mixing cabinet but haven't used it yet gave my old twisp to my sister-in-law but she gave up on it and wouldn't buy coils for it lol the distilled water was for making mixes for the twisp device.



@Friep Why would you add distilled water to a mix specifically for a Twisp device? Are the Twisp liquids very thin? Reason why I'm asking is that I have a Twisp Mini Vega that's started bubbling and gurgling like a newborn babe. I wonder if it's because I'm using other e-liquids in it (not Twisp).

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## Silver (1/1/18)

Hooked said:


> @Friep Why would you add distilled water to a mix specifically for a Twisp device? Are the Twisp liquids very thin? Reason why I'm asking is that I have a Twisp Mini Vega that's started bubbling and gurgling like a newborn babe. I wonder if it's because I'm using other e-liquids in it (not Twisp).



Hi @Hooked

The "earlier generation" Twisp gear such as the Clearo1 and even the Clearo2 generally worked better on thinner liquid. They had very small coils and they struggled with thicker juice.

I stand to be corrected but I think your Mini Vega should be more capable on thicker liquids. 

Does it still gurgle and bubble when you put in a new coil? Maybe there is a seal missing?

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## Hooked (1/1/18)

Silver said:


> Hi @Hooked
> 
> The "earlier generation" Twisp gear such as the Clearo1 and even the Clearo2 generally worked better on thinner liquid. They had very small coils and they struggled with thicker juice.
> 
> ...



@Silver Yes it's still gurgling and bubbling. I've tried different e-liquids with it and I've replaced the coil. It was fine for the first month or so that I had the devcie and, as you said, I was using normal 70/30 liquids. I just haven't had a chance to get out of Yzerfontein to go to Mr Tobacco for help. This is one of the disadvantages of living here!!

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## DamienK (2/1/18)

MTL devices are known to not give as good a flavour as sub ohm RTA's, RDA's and RDTA's. A lot of this boils down the the surface area on the sub ohm coils compared to the higher resistance MTL coils. The enhanced flavour of sub ohming is what is making it now so popular but the unfortunate side effect of that is that you'll go through a lot more juice.
The old twisps used to run on a 50/50 ratio if I remember correctly. I don't know if they have changed that, but it was very watery to allow for maximum and easy juice intake onto the cotton. 
If you're mixing DIT for a MTL tank I would say go with a 60VG, 40PG mix to allow your coils to soak up juice easier, maybe 50/50 if you like a little throat hit.... the more PG the greater the throat hit, but the better the flavour as PG holds flavour better than VG. Also maybe up your % concentrates by 1 or 2% atleast. 
Some thing to be careful to consider is that your tank may be more liable to leak with a more PG based juice.

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## Resistance (2/1/18)

65pg/25vg.nautilus style tank.minimal flavour mix.nic suspended in pg.2drops of water in a 20ml bottle.works great for MTL but make you feel like a raisin on DTL.if over vaped.
mod settings 2.4ohm at 9-15watts and 11w being my sweetspot.up to 40w works but not on long puffs.
must say I need to get me a flavour pack now.
@Silver @Friep @Hooked @DamienK @bjorncoetsee.
@Hooked your Vega has spitting and gurgling issues even the ones on display at kiosks does that.I suggest what @Silver said...the seals and also check that the coils cotton wick fills the spaces between the coil and the coils casing especially the holes that allows juice to pass through

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## Resistance (2/1/18)

pity I can't upload pics and files through my phone I did something else on the base of one of my tanks.I put in a seal that seals the bottom of my coils to the base of my coil seat.that way any coil will seal even without a seal on it.its a McGyver moove

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## Hooked (2/1/18)

Resistance said:


> @Hooked your Vega has spitting and gurgling issues even the ones on display at kiosks does that.I suggest what @Silver said...the seals and also check that the coils cotton wick fills the spaces between the coil and the coils casing especially the holes that allows juice to pass through



@Resistance thanks for advice - I'll have a look. But mine DIDN'T have any problems for the first month that I used it. In fact, I loved it so much I wanted to buy a second one. I'm glad now that I didn't!

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## Friep (2/1/18)

Thanks for all the advice. Will do a mix soon and try the 60/40 and see what happens and up the % a bit.


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## Friep (2/1/18)

@Hooked the newe twisp devices should work fine with juice from different vendors. Gurgling normally suggests flooding I am unsure of the mecanics on the vega tank if you fill it from the top make sure the airflow is closed don't know if you have tried this? Might also be an issue with the o-rings(seals) if they have a small tear or don't seal properly the chamber might fill with some excess juice that might cause the gurgling. 
Do you prime your coils before vaping or inserting them? (Adding a few drops of liquid to the cotton and some down the tube). Have you tried removing the coil and drying the base where the coil fits into the tank?

If all of this fails I would rather take them back might also be a bad batch of coils.

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## Andre (2/1/18)

Friep said:


> Thanks for all the advice. Will do a mix soon and try the 60/40 and see what happens and up the % a bit.


I have been doing MTL for more than 4 years now and DIY for almost 2 years. From the start of the latter I have mixed at 60VG/40PG. I have never had to up the percentages on flavours, rather the other way around on the odd occasion. The devices I use are squonkers (mech and regulated), BBs and the odd tank - like the Skyline and the Siren 2.

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## Friep (2/1/18)

Andre said:


> I have been doing MTL for more than 4 years now and DIY for almost 2 years. From the start of the latter I have mixed at 60VG/40PG. I have never had to up the percentages on flavours, rather the other way around on the odd occasion. The devices I use are squonkers (mech and regulated), BBs and the odd tank - like the Skyline and the Siren 2.


Thanks @Andre really appreciate your feedback and know your level of experience with diy. 
I am also under the impression that the % should not be increased never mind the ratio of pg to vg.
Will give a 60/40 mixture a go and a 50/50 just need to figure out the % of flavoring I ended up with after I nocked the bottle over I was going for 3% tfa peppermint 2 and 3% black ice and 1% cap supper sweet. Will start with that and see how it goes then reduce to find what I ended up with eventually.

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## Resistance (2/1/18)

@Friep mix 50/50 then add pg suspended nic and flavour the ratio will change then drop of water.I'm fairly certain this will work on a MTL setup.if it doesn't and is to dry add more VG till you find your nichè

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## Resistance (2/1/18)

@Andre how do you restrict your airflow on that setups

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## Resistance (2/1/18)

I tried mtl on newer tanks and found the old style mtl tanks work better for me.probably cause its.more restricted.


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## Resistance (2/1/18)

@Hooked I like the Vega mini too.was going to het one but I went for the cue as it just did the trick.I still want to get me one though but I'm going to use the nautilus style tank on there or I'm going to get a higher ohm coil and restrict the airflow.
I got a kangertech which I'm using for DTL and two tanks which I find works better for that purpose

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## Resistance (2/1/18)

OK we all have different tastes and we all have what works for us.I tried mtl on high wattage and it didn't work for me neither did more air .I the same mix on DTL setup and almost dried out.I was basically chocking but it works great for me on my nautilus style tank with 2.4ohm coil so my advice @Friep is to play around and find what works for you.maybe try a tank @andr suggest

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## Resistance (2/1/18)

@Andre you need show me how to mtl on a sqounk mod.I don't have one yet but am looking to get me one in the future but tips and trick are always welcome

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## Andre (2/1/18)

Resistance said:


> @Andre how do you restrict your airflow on that setups


All of the atomizers I use, have adjustable airflow.


Resistance said:


> @Andre you need show me how to mtl on a sqounk mod.I don't have one yet but am looking to get me one in the future but tips and trick are always welcome


MTL is dependent on the atomizer, not the mod. I mainly use OL16s on my squonkers. Single coil between 0.5 to 0.8 ohms, depending on the juice.

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## DamienK (2/1/18)

Andre said:


> I have been doing MTL for more than 4 years now and DIY for almost 2 years. From the start of the latter I have mixed at 60VG/40PG. I have never had to up the percentages on flavours, rather the other way around on the odd occasion. The devices I use are squonkers (mech and regulated), BBs and the odd tank - like the Skyline and the Siren 2.


MTL on a mech squonker?!?!?! That's slightly different to MTL on a 15w device with a 1.2 ohm coil.....

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## Andre (2/1/18)

DamienK said:


> MTL on a mech squonker?!?!?! That's slightly different to MTL on a 15w device with a 1.2 ohm coil.....


Not really - if I build a 1.2 ohm coil for the atomizer on the mech squonker, the output would be around 15W. At most the power is more direct.

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## Resistance (2/1/18)

@Andre I just typed a post and then deleted.I got no experience with that setup.is the Ol16 a MTL -RDA if not how do you regulate the airflow.then again your devices are variable isn't it

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## Resistance (2/1/18)

@Andre is see what you mean now.it works the same on a non variable regulated mod then.same thing as when I change my tanks between the two.

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## Andre (2/1/18)

Resistance said:


> @Andre I just typed a post and then deleted.I got no experience with that setup.is the Ol16 a MTL -RDA if not how do you regulate the airflow.then again your devices are variable isn't it


Yes, the OL16 is a bottom fed (BF) RDA - the airflow can be adjusted from MTL to restricted lung hit. Can take single or dual coils. Small chamber = great flavour. Good clones available at The Vape Guy. I use them on both regulated and mech squonkers.

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## Resistance (2/1/18)

@Andre good to know.my diy doesn't really have flavour.I had some sort of reaction and chose to dilute it to basically no flavour as long as I got the throat hit I was happy.I also found for me higher PG works on MTL but not o. DTL
so you info has helped me and will look you up when I go shopping.
@Silver is also a MTL vaper so I will call on your experience then

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## Resistance (2/1/18)

@Alex just a question on your batteries.do you use high amp or medium amps on mtl.
I found my lower amp battery last longer on mtl and higher amp better on DTL

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## Alex (2/1/18)

Resistance said:


> @Alex just a question on your batteries.do you use high amp or medium amps on mtl.
> I found my lower amp battery last longer on mtl and higher amp better on DTL



@Resistance I had already typed a rather lenghtly reply and then I came across this acrticle by *mooch *who explains things a helluva lot better than I could ever do. http://vaping360.com/top-5-18650-batteries-for-vaping/

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## Resistance (2/1/18)

@thanks a lot.checking it out

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## Resistance (3/1/18)

@Andre @Friep @bjorncoetsee @Alex @DamienK @Hooked if I missed someone pls include yourself...what coils,type and braid do you use on MTL setups. do you guys think a specific wire type and braid changes it by a milestone or can it all be viewed in the same light


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## Silver (3/1/18)

Hi @Resistance 

I typically prefer simple coils with thinnish wire for MTL. I like a crisp vape and something thats instant.
Usually Kanthal but also SS lately
Normally small diameter - around 1.6mm
Not much airflow on my MTL RM2 atty so i find these types of coils work well for mr for 50/50 high nic juice in MTL

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## Andre (3/1/18)

Resistance said:


> @Andre @Friep @bjorncoetsee @Alex @DamienK @Hooked if I missed someone pls include yourself...what coils,type and braid do you use on MTL setups. do you guys think a specific wire type and braid changes it by a milestone or can it all be viewed in the same light


For simple wire I use 27g Kanthal. Lately I have been using Clapton wire (kanthal sold by Sir Vape) and fused Clapton wire (Vandyvapes superfine for MTL in Ni80 or SS316). Always at 2.5mm.

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## Silver (3/1/18)

Andre said:


> For simple wire I use 27g Kanthal. Lately I have been using Clapton wire (kanthal sold by Sir Vape) and fused Clapton wire (Vandyvapes superfine for MTL in Ni80 or SS316). Always at 2.5mm.



Thanks @Andre 
How do you find the vape on that Vandyvape superfine versus a standard 27g build?
I presume slightly wetter? Denser?

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## Andre (3/1/18)

Silver said:


> Thanks @Andre
> How do you find the vape on that Vandyvape superfine versus a standard 27g build?
> I presume slightly wetter? Denser?


Yes.

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## Resistance (3/1/18)

greetings.your answers are informative reason me asking about coils is it narrows it down a bit so now I can see which of this work for me.I bought a twisted coil to test but have not used it in my MTL. I used it in my DTL has 3ohms resistance. and had to cut it and rewind a bit to make it fit on a standard replaceable coil tank.and bought a flavoured liquid to test.liqua peach.
was not bad but wasn't that great either.

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## Resistance (20/1/18)

hi guys.@friep how is the mixing going that side.
here this side I'm still looking for a nice mtl tank.either there's nothing nice available or they want to all me something I don't need.

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## Friep (20/1/18)

Resistance said:


> hi guys.@friep how is the mixing going that side.
> here this side I'm still looking for a nice mtl tank.either there's nothing nice available or they want to all me something I don't need.



Mixing is going well thanks @Resistance.
For myself I mostly mix 2.4mg nic with a 60vg/40pg ratio and 70vg/30pg. I mostly enjoy bigger rda setups and direct lung hits forgot to mention that. 

The reason I started this thread was to find out from guys what they do when they do for there mtl setups so that I can do better mixes for my family that I am trying to convert my current conclusion is that the pg vg ratio makes a big difference. I still need to test this but haven't gotten around to it yet. As soon as I get some time will post my findings.


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## Friep (20/1/18)

Thanks for all your input I really appreciate it. @Resistance how's mixing going your side?


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## Resistance (20/1/18)

didn't mix for mtl yet.my tank broke and went searching for a nice one.sad thing is most products are online and I like to walk in and see what I'm in for first hand.I did however steep a tobacco extraction and hope to see how that works out for me

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## Resistance (20/1/18)

@Friep if I'm successfull I will post my findings.
till then I got me twisp 18mg so long

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## Resistance (20/1/18)

@Friep did you checkout that primer post of @rich b

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## Friep (20/1/18)

Resistance said:


> @Friep did you checkout that primer post of @rich b


Jip think it's a must read for anyone considering diy. Great write-up from @RichJB

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## Ruwaid (7/2/18)

Howzit guys!
I know this is an old thread but anything with MTL in the title catches my eye lol. Just to add some info for anyone wanting to know @Silver, @Friep @Resistance @Hooked (just a few names off this thread...) The Twisp VG/PG ratio is:
3MG range is 70/30
Pure range is 100VG
And all other ranges is 50/50.

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## Hooked (7/2/18)

Thanks a lot for the info @Ruwaid!

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## Ruwaid (7/2/18)

pleasure bud @Hooked

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## Resistance (14/2/18)

Hi guys can't post a review of the eleaf icare2.still testing it.
My first coil didn't work out so well all I tasted was rubber even though it was set up in the shop.the other one thought is great tasting but that one is not mine and I don't use it really.on my second coil with a mix of twisp rebel,blueberry and grape,kiwi,litchi mix with extra nic.I get no throat and feel the nic

Sent from my VF-696 using Tapatalk

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## Resistance (14/2/18)

Resistance said:


> Hi guys can't post a review of the eleaf icare2.still testing it.
> My first coil didn't work out so well all I tasted was rubber even though it was set up in the shop.the other one thought is great tasting but that one is not mine and I don't use it really.on my second coil with a mix of twisp rebel,blueberry and grape,kiwi,litchi mix with extra nic.I get no throat and feel the nic
> 
> Sent from my VF-696 using Tapatalk


The vape is somewhat tasteless

Sent from my VF-696 using Tapatalk

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