# Distinguishing a Seller vs a Flipper



## Clouds4Days (4/11/17)

Hi there Vape Fam

I just thought i would like to get some peeps views on the above mentioned Title.
Alot of gear gets sold through the classifieds for various reasons-
-Unused
-Not in use
-No longer needed
-unwanted gift
-need the cash

So my queation is how does one distinguish and prevent from someone that is genuinely selling used gear to get some cash at a reduced cost (as the item is second hand)

Vs

Someone buying and selling used Gear but at RRP or higher price (flipping) because its not a easy attanable piece of gear.

I get that some items are sought after but ecigssa is not a trading platform for flippers, that's what FB groups like (Mikeys Mod Mart, High End Mods Group etc) were created for .

I feel as a vaping community we have the responsibility to stop people from flipping on ecigssa as it is just out right wrong.

Another thing is if one is selling gear for a higher price than what you actually paid is that not reffered to as being a Trader?
We have suporting vendors that pay money every month in order to advertise and sell products.

Anyways.
What's your guys views and if yous all agree how can we stop or prevent from having flippers on our platform?

Peace...

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 6 | Winner 2


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## spiv (4/11/17)

Good points. 

I don't have a problem if it's cheaper because it's second hand, but no matter how hard a piece of gear is to get, it should be sold at less than a new one, otherwise that's flipping and making a profit and the person is essentially a vendor.

Some prices for vape gear in the classifieds are crazy high when compared to the RRP including shipping and customs.

Vendors buy and add their markup. If a guy with a store constantly bombarded the classifieds with his stock, that would be frowned upon and posts will be deleted. If you're flipping, you're adding your markup. Rare or not... It's not fair to the vendors.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 3


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## Raindance (4/11/17)

Flipping in itself is merely the act of utilizing the laws of supply and demand to make a profit on sought after items for which demand exceeds supply. The act of flipping is therefore neither illegal nor immoral as it plays by the rules of our good old capitalist system. A willing, and hopefully informed buyer transacting with a willing seller, nothing wrong with that.

Does it belong on this forum? I think this is the real question.

My basic response would be why not? As an example, if any of us were to find out that an old piece of equipment has now become a sought after collectors item, what would be wrong with advertising it here at a price reflecting its collectors value?

Ok, I get the point of registered retailers versus classified adverts posted by ordinary members. Advertising in the classifieds for the purpose of turning a profit is not aligned to the spirit of this service and constitutes abuse of the privilege. For this reason, and this reason alone I am inclined to support the no flipping camp.

How does one identify and enforce this then?

There is a difference between a person purchasing a piece of high end gear, realizing it does not suit him and advertising it for a couple of bucks more than the original purchase price (Because he knows he can get his price), and a person buying a number of HE items for the sole purpose of reselling at a profit. Identifying which is which is the difficult part.
Considering the last statement, and the complexity of the situation the following. A basic principle of decision making is that if the cost of failure is less than the cost of prevention, the right choice to make is to accept failure. 

So what I am trying to demonstrate is that the occurrence and "cost" associated with flipping adverts in the classifieds are most probably not worth the effort and fallout of the feces storm that could potentially arise from trying to eliminate them. Both the sellers and buyers that participate in these deals do so willingly and those of us that object have the option not to participate neither are we negatively affected by these adds, so why worry.

Retailers could claim it unfair because their goods are resold at higher prices, but then again, this would indicate they are selling below perceived market value and they have the option to raise their own prices. Free market research.

Having gone through the above thoughts my final conclusion needs to be that although I agree these adds do not belong in the classifieds, as long as the problem does not reach critical levels, it is best to just let them be.

Regards

Reactions: Like 5 | Agree 9


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## Petrus (4/11/17)

@Clouds4Days, I will get some dislikes, but flipping means instant BAN. But I assume if you really wants a piece of gear you are going to pay more than the RRP. I know on most Facebook groups you must clearly indicate the RRP of the item being sold.

Reactions: Like 7


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## Silver (4/11/17)

Thanks for bringing this up @Clouds4Days 

Allow me to paste the initial paragraph of the Classifieds Rules :

*The Classifieds exist as a free service that we offer to our loyal members to buy or sell personal items. It is not to be used in any form as a commercial outlet or a perceived commercial outlet. If you wish to commercially trade on ECIGSSA, please contact one of the administrators or moderators.*

The principle here is very well summed up by @Raindance above:


Raindance said:


> Advertising in the classifieds for the purpose of turning a profit is not aligned to the spirit of this service and constitutes abuse of the privilege. For this reason, and this reason alone I am inclined to support the no flipping camp.



The whole point of the Classifieds is to be a free service that adds value to members to be able to sell their personal vaping things they no longer need or use. It was never intended for this to be used as a channel to make a profit by regular ongoing sales where the products were bought initially for the intention of reselling on the Classifieds.

And let me say that we as the Admin and Mod team spend quite a bit of time moderating the Classifieds. It is one of those areas which is open to abuse and needs constant monitoring. But we do feel it adds good value to members here. We have tried our best to keep it "clean".

If you see someone you feel is breaking the intended spirit of this, please feel free to send one of the admin and mod team a PM and let us know. We can then take it onboard, discuss it and decide on the best way forward.

Reactions: Like 12


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## RenaldoRheeder (4/11/17)

Some very interesting questions raised. From a buyer perspective, I can argue that it is in my interest to have the opportunity to buy whatever sought after item becomes available at whatever price I am prepared to pay. 

However, from a fairness perspective for our supporting vendors, I can see the challenge. 

How about a system of commission on all sales to ECIGSSA? In that way we address the fairness issue relating to our supporting vendors; We have willing buyers and sellers with free choice; And we are maintaining our ECIGSSA platform. 

Options for implementation is plentiful - it can even improve security and integrity of transactions if a system is implemented whereby ECIGSSA act as the third party in the transaction to receive and disburse payments 

Not as simple as just that, but an idea to consider 

My 2 kobo worth. 


Sent by iDad's iPhone

Reactions: Like 1 | Creative 1


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## incredible_hullk (4/11/17)

Spot on @Clouds4Days and thanks for tackling the elephant in the room

I think it goes against the spirit of the community here after all we are one virtual family and should not be “extorting” from each other

I agree with @Petrus .... ban the flippers

Reactions: Like 4


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## Clouds4Days (4/11/17)

The main issue i have with
Flippers on this platform is (and im gonna remove the morally wrong equation from this situation)-

I can understand if you buy something today and a few days/weeks later you realise this is not for me and decide to let it go and even if you put it up for sale at your cost price thats fine.

But then next week you buy somthing else and say its not for me let me add R200 ontop because its sought after,

Following week same thing happens, and the next and the next...

You are using the classifieds to trade as a business and therfore bypassing being a vendor on ecigssa when that is actually what your doing (Trading/making a profit).

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 8


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## Silver (4/11/17)

Clouds4Days said:


> The main issue i have with
> Flippers on this platform is (and im gonna remove the morally wrong equation from this situation)-
> 
> I can understand if you buy something today and a few days/weeks later you realise this is not for me and decide to let it go and even if you put it up for sale at your cost price thats fine.
> ...



What you are describing is not the intended spirit of the Classifieds @Clouds4Days 
If you spot this behaviour and feel the person is using it to run a business of sorts, then please send me a PM and i will take it up with the team

Reactions: Like 1


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## KZOR (4/11/17)

I for one do not possess the cash flow that allows me to indulge in buying HE or rare gear. Maybe one a year. 
Fortunately i very rarely see a piece of hardware that, to me, is worth the price being sold at.
I watch a crapload of reviews and many times you see a reviewer discussing such an item he purchased but never again you see him using or referring to it in videos he/she does after that one.
My theory is that a lot of vapers buy these items because it is a trend or that it makes them feel special or that they crave the attention they receive when others know they have obtained it but in the majority of these cases those special moments are temporary.
I buy what i think would be a great piece of hardware despite it's position in the top 10 or it's level of availability in the Russian underground.

So what is my point?
I have no problem with a person selling his personal property at the price he desires. It is my option as a sane human to accept, decline or ignore the opportunity.
We have vapers in this community that love buying expensive gear for whatever the reason and they would then have the chance to satisfy their needs via a more familiar environment.
As long as it does not become a commercial trend meaning that you don't see one specific individual flipping a variety of these goods often. But ecigssa members have the keen ability to spot that a mile away. 

I must admit that i enjoy seeing all these goodies but that is where it stops most of the times because i realise that it is just another mod that does exactly the same as my Therion, Hcigar or Smok Alien. I am one for practicality and hence enjoy a certain market while others enjoy other things ..... why limit them?

A mod to me must look good, have a great battery life, feel great in the hand, be within my affordable price range, durable components and have that something special that caters to my taste or preferance.

Reactions: Like 9 | Agree 7


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## Clouds4Days (4/11/17)

@Silver i think this is a quick and easy fix.

@Petrus mentioned it above, would it be possible to add on the classifieds template the RRP. NB- (price should not be these HE FB auction price but the price the original manufacturer sold it for.)

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2


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## Christos (4/11/17)

People often contact me to acquire something I own that they want. The sad reality is that people want what I have but want to offer me less that what I paid for the item. I'm no in vaping to make any money but I'm also not in vaping to buy mods for folks and bear the costs myself.

It's another story if I deliberately add the item to the classifieds etc but it's turning into a case of "I want stuffs and I want you to bear the cost".

If I pay 200USD over RRP for an item I want and you ask me to purchase it should you really be upset if I just want to recover my costs?

I think @KZOR and @Raindance have said it well. Free market where informed buyers can make their own mind up on if they are prepared to pay and if they want the item.

I do agree there is a growing trend of people selling items for 3 to 10x the cost but these guys come and go. 

That being said I find it more and more difficult to post items in the vapemail thread as I generally get messages to purchase items and I feel like the right thing to do is spread the vape love and let people have what they desire but this often leads to me being worse off as there is shipping and duties etc that I have to absorb.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1 | Informative 1 | Dislike 1


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## Hakhan (4/11/17)

very interesting...what is the price of second hand vape devices. if you buy a new car the minute you drive off it's depreciated by +20% 
is the buyer of the second hand device also meant to pay for the cost of bringing the device into the country? customs charges and finders fee etc. 
flippers are worse than cloners imho and the reason why some products are cloned

Reactions: Like 2


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## Puff the Magic Dragon (4/11/17)

In my opinion it is simply a case of "caveat emptor...let the buyer beware" When applying this ancient principle in its widest sense, the buyer should be aware that he/she is paying more than the RRP. If you have done your basic research on an item (just google it) you will know what the RRP is, and should you still wish to buy it at an inflated price, you should be free to do so. Likewise you should be free to offer it at the higher price. We are selling to adults (18 years and above). As an adult you should know that you must research an item (including price) before you buy it.

A person who buys high end equipment hoping to cash in on a lack of supply runs a risk. The item may fall out of favour for many reasons (something better comes on the market...item proves to have issues...etc) The seller may then make a loss on the items. Or conversely, cash in, an make a good profit.

The seller who does this is clearly engaged in commercial activities. i.e. buy at a price, to sell at a higher price.

As @Silver has explained, the forum rules clearly state that the classifieds are not a commercial outlet. A flipper should therefore not permitted to sell on the forum's classified section.

I'm sure we all agree that the admin team do a great job (in all respects) and that they will prevent commercial use of the classifieds. We can help by alerting them to potential flippers should we identify them. 

To sum up. I am not against flippers in general but (according to our present rules) they should not be allowed to sell on the forum's classifieds.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 4 | Thanks 1


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## Clouds4Days (4/11/17)

Christos said:


> People often contact me to acquire something I own that they want. The sad reality is that people want what I have but want to offer me less that what I paid for the item. I'm no in vaping to make any money but I'm also not in vaping to buy mods for folks and bear the costs myself.
> 
> It's another story if I deliberately add the item to the classifieds etc but it's turning into a case of "I want stuffs and I want you to bear the cost".
> 
> ...



If someone approaches you to buy a piece of gear then yes by all means name your price i see that as fair.
Its happend with us in the past where i wanted to buy something you had, you named your price i wasnt happy with X price and i moved along.

But yes under those circumstances seller is 100% in his right to name his price.

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## Clouds4Days (4/11/17)

Puff the Magic Dragon said:


> In my opinion it is simply a case of "caveat emptor...let the buyer beware" When applying this ancient principle in its widest sense, the buyer should be aware that he/she is paying more than the RRP. If you have done your basic research on an item (just google it) you will know what the RRP is, and should you still wish to buy it at an inflated price, you should be free to do so. Likewise you should be free to offer it at the higher price. We are selling to adults (18 years and above). As an adult you should know that you must research an item (including price) before you buy it.
> 
> A person who buys high end equipment hoping to cash in on a lack of supply runs a risk. The item may fall out of favour for many reasons (something better comes on the market...item proves to have issues...etc) The seller may then make a loss on the items. Or conversely, cash in, an make a good profit.
> 
> ...



Agree 99% , but and the main issue isn't really once off poster trying to make a quick buck. Its about multiple items for sale at a inflated price (using the classifieds to trade).

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## Seemo.wm (4/11/17)

In my humble opinion, when going through the classifieds, if I dont like the asking price I'll just move on. 
I didnt even know flipping was a thing until this thread, but nobody is being forced into a transaction. If the seller is happy with the price he is getting, and the buyer is happy to pay the price, the deal will go on. If either party is unhappy, nobody is fored to buy. 

I assumed there's a market for the high end gear, but I just click on

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 2


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## Clouds4Days (4/11/17)

Seemo.wm said:


> In my humble opinion, when going through the classifieds, if I dont like the asking price I'll just move on.
> I didnt even know flipping was a thing until this thread, but nobody is being forced into a transaction. If the seller is happy with the price he is getting, and the buyer is happy to pay the price, the deal will go on. If either party is unhappy, nobody is fored to buy.
> 
> I assumed there's a market for the high end gear, but I just click on



There are various reasons why flipping is frowned upon.
The main reason being is alot of HE gear is dificult to attain some items you go onto a short list in order to get one and can sometimes wait months to get a specific iteam.

Not everyone can get on these lists and then you have some douch bags that get onto the list in order get the product just so they can resell for a profit.

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## RichJB (4/11/17)

Seemo.wm said:


> I didnt even know flipping was a thing until this thread, but nobody is being forced into a transaction. If the seller is happy with the price he is getting, and the buyer is happy to pay the price, the deal will go on. If either party is unhappy, nobody is fored to buy.



I think @Clouds4Days point is not that the deal shouldn't be allowed to happen, just that it shouldn't be allowed to happen _here_. As he said, there are FB forums for such deals. To draw an analogy, a lot of people buy drugs and a lot of people sell drugs. So transactions are going to happen. But that doesn't mean you want those transactions happening on the pavement outside your house or from the reception area of the company where you work.

I tend to agree with him. Times are tight and people will do anything to make money. But flipping is the equivalent of ticket scalping. It is buying up a rare resource to create a shortage and then selling it at an inflated cost for max profits. I don't think it falls within the spirit of what ECIGSSA is trying to achieve with the Classifieds. If people want to flip, they can knock themselves out on FB. They don't have to do it here.

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 3 | Winner 2


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## TheV (4/11/17)

Some items end up on the classifieds at higher than RRP simply because there are other costs involved and I'm okay with that.
A Billet Box costs $264 from the manufacturer but you won't be able to buy one for the R3755 that it converts to.
Package forwarding and import duties have to be taken into account and as such BB's sell for a higher price than $264 on the classifieds.
The same is true for a lot of HE items, and this needs to be taken into account.

At the end of the day a seller can ask whatever he wants for an item in my opinion.
It is my right as a buyer to vote with my wallet, whether it is on the classifieds or any other commercial platform.
Does that mean I'm okay with flipping, not at all. But its not always such a clear cut case what an item cost a person.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 4


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## Seemo.wm (4/11/17)

I see what you guys mean @Clouds4Days @RichJB 

So @TheV put it well then...

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## Clouds4Days (4/11/17)

RichJB said:


> I think @Clouds4Days point is not the deal shouldn't be allowed to happen, just that it shouldn't be allowed to happen _here_. As he said, there are FB forums for such deals. To draw an analogy, a lot of people buy drugs and a lot of people sell drugs. So transactions are going to happen. But that doesn't mean you want those transactions happening on the pavement outside your house or from the reception area of the company where you work.
> 
> I tend to agree with him. Times are tight and people will do anything to make money. But flipping is the equivalent of ticket scalping. It is buying up a rare resource to create a shortage and then selling it at an inflated cost for max profits. I don't think it falls within the spirit of what ECIGSSA is trying to achieve with the Classifieds. If people want to flip, they can knock themselves out on FB. They don't have to do it here.



Thank you brother. You explained it better than me .

Reactions: Like 2


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## Jengz (4/11/17)

I agree with both ends in certain ways. I feel it’s very difficult to classify someone as a flipper, the vaping life is a rabbit hole as we all know and you consistently just wanna buy something new as you feel it will be better, but it never is... like @KZOR stated most things do the same thing.

Sometimes yes it’s nice to spoil yourself and buy something great and let your wallet cry but I honestly feel the person must be able to recover the cost they incured depending on the condition and age of the item. I don’t however agree with using the classifieds as a platform to buy stuff off an already difficult market just for the purposes of creating a demand and then selling it but like I said the intention of each individual is hard to determine.

I know if I had the financial calibilities to buy a new great mod, use it for a bit and then sell it, I would. And for some that’s how it is, so I don’t think we can criticize someone who satisfies their wants because they can but also I don’t feel the classifieds should be used to create demand by buying out stuff and then extorting.

I love this forum and have no complaints and feel that if people are extorting, buyers need to make the call and say look I love this thing, I want it and I am willing to pay and if not then don’t buy it. 

It is a very sticky situation.

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## Hooked (4/11/17)

I haven't voted because perhaps I don't know what I'm talking about - I've neither bought nor sold vape stuff. However, from reading the comments above, my thoughts are as follows. If someone is continually selling things, then clearly they are attempting to be a vendor and not simply a private seller. That would be unfair to the genuine vendors if he's selling for BELOW market cost. But if he's is selling at ABOVE market cost well, it's a free world. Just as vendors have the right to determine their prices, so does an individual. Isn't it up to the seller to do his homework as to market prices? If he doesn't and he pays more than what he should, well, that's his problem, isn't it? If I'm wrong, please explain why.

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## Strontium (5/11/17)

If flippers want to sell at a profit, fine, but do it somewhere else. Don't need those douchenozzles here, go to a site dedicated to that, there's plenty out there.

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## Darryn Du Plessis (6/11/17)

You are always entitled to also bargain on classifieds too. If you don't believe you should pay the price they ask. Then start your path on getting the price down as you checked sources a b and c and believe the price could be far better. Do it personally though. As price battles is something everyone suffers in the land of South Africa. We pay far more than the item is worth when you convert dollars to rands..

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## Daniel (6/11/17)

Darryn Du Plessis said:


> You are always entitled to also bargain on classifieds too. If you don't believe you should pay the price they ask. Then start your path on getting the price down as you checked sources a b and c and believe the price could be far better. Do it personally though. As price battles is something everyone suffers in the land of South Africa. We pay far more than the item is worth when you convert dollars to rands..



And this is exactly the reason I tend not to advertise on the Classies anymore. Some buyers yes do their homework but other's just come with stupid offers/trades or lowball offers and that well suppose is their right , but this isn't some corner shop where you can haggle with the vendor for a better price on Simba chips  

As for the flipping of goods it's been around for years , supply and demand created by the makers IMHO and fueled by the flippers..... but like someone mentioned there are places for that kind of thing ...not here...

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## Marzuq (6/11/17)

i vote let the flipper be. classifieds is for selling 2nd hand vape gear. so as long as its not new gear he is flipping i have no issue.
You as the buyer have a choice whether you willing to pay the asking price for the gear in question.

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## Clouds4Days (6/11/17)

Marzuq said:


> . so as long as its not new gear he is flipping i have no issue.
> .



But if he was flipping new gear it would be better, at least you would be paying RRP or flipper price on a new item.

At moment one is paying flipper price on second hand gear.

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 3


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## Deckie (6/11/17)

I won't elaborate but I've seen some guys asking for ridiculous prices on 2nd hand gear, more than RRP on a new piece exactly same. I really don't think such belongs here...

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## Marzuq (6/11/17)

Clouds4Days said:


> But if he was flipping new gear it would be better, at least you would be paying RRP or flipper price on a new item.
> 
> At moment one is paying flipper price on second hand gear.




If someone buys second hand gear and retail price then that is either because he is desperate for that piece of hardware or alternatively not clued up as to what the actual selling price of the item is. But the rest of guys wont get caught out by that and will call the seller out on the product.

In addition if i decide that i desperately need money for some private matter and sell all my guy at ridiculously low prices to a friend of mine who doesnt need it but buys it to help me out. why should he not be allowed to resell the items at whatever the going rate for second hand gear is?
I dont really think this matter is an issue. Everybody is looking to make a buck. I say if they get a buyer then let them be.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 6


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## JsPLAYn (6/11/17)

On plenty of forums one is only allowed to use the classifieds once you have reached a certain amount of posts. In this way you won't have guys joining ecigssa just to post something for sale . Many of the posts are post#1 in for sale threads.. maybe 100 posts or more gains you use of the 'for sale tread'

Also in my opinion , I hustle for my vape goodies. Its not everyone that can afford to just fork out hard cash. So I sometimes flip/trade-up to allow myself to reach what I want,taken into account it's gets regenerated into the hobby and not seen as a business to make profit for other purposes. I don't believe older participating members on ecigssa will 'flip' goods for profits and so by enforcing the 100+ posts before u can use sales category should help.

Also the mods should intervene in case where guys exploits situations in the classifieds as it is a rule that members may not discuss pricing etc. To each his own,but currently there are adds for items that's more than it'll cost one brand new.. 

Just my 2c

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## Daniel (6/11/17)

I think it comes down to trust , you trust that long standing members won't exploit those in the same community.

It's also a two way street though , once you are known as a "flipper" your days in the Classies will get pretty lonely ....

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## JsPLAYn (6/11/17)

KZOR said:


> I for one do not possess the cash flow that allows me to indulge in buying HE or rare gear. Maybe one a year.
> Fortunately i very rarely see a piece of hardware that, to me, is worth the price being sold at.
> I watch a crapload of reviews and many times you see a reviewer discussing such an item he purchased but never again you see him using or referring to it in videos he/she does after that one.
> My theory is that a lot of vapers buy these items because it is a trend or that it makes them feel special or that they crave the attention they receive when others know they have obtained it but in the majority of these cases those special moments are temporary.
> ...


Some very good points there @KZOR 

Psssst, I've seen some leka stuff u own.. where do u sell them. Please tell 

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## JsPLAYn (6/11/17)

Daniel said:


> I think it comes down to trust , you trust that long standing members won't exploit those in the same community.
> 
> It's also a two way street though , once you are known as a "flipper" your days in the Classies will get pretty lonely ....


I don't agree.. one can flip within a certain range very successfully. As long as u dnt cross that RRP line !!! Like @Marzuq said, what if some rich friend of urs no longer wants to vape and sells you his stuff for dirt cheap and u later advertise at a good 2nd hand price but still profitable for you.. note, not all flippers are bad guys .....

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## Daniel (6/11/17)

JsPLAYn said:


> I don't agree.. one can flip within a certain range very successfully. As long as u dnt cross that RRP line !!! Like @Marzuq said, what if some rich friend of urs no longer wants to vape and sells you his stuff for dirt cheap and u later advertise at a good 2nd hand price but still profitable for you.. note, not all flippers are bad guys .....



That's exactly what flipping is , extorting the market/demand or a "rich friend" for your own financial gain .... anyway I'm not accusing anyone or getting into the merits of it to each one his own .....

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## JsPLAYn (6/11/17)

Daniel said:


> That's exactly what flipping is , extorting the market/demand or a "rich friend" for your own financial gain .... anyway I'm not accusing anyone or getting into the merits of it to each one his own .....


How are you extorting the market if you come in under RRP. And the 'rich friend' was just an example fyi and also 'for your own financial gain' as u mentioned.. what if it's as a means to push your vape hobby to the next level? Referring to guys who are not strapped with cash to spend on nice vapes

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## CMMACKEM (6/11/17)

I would say the quantity and condition of item is an easy way to spot. For example someone selling 5 sealed atomisers or mods.

There are much easier ways to do it. Facebook etc, why would people bother on this forum?

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## r0ckf1re (6/11/17)

IMO...

In order to control this, Admin will have to police pricing. How feasible this is, I have no idea. If the policing is not going to happen then it is what it is. I agree with those that mentioned it's upon the buyer to decide what an item is worth to them. A buyer can be equally wrong by creating a market for these "Flippers" by not doing their homework and paying higher prices. 

Should a pattern be identified where a particular user is trying to "Flip" items regularly, then that should be dealt with individually. 

Users also have an opportunity to state if they "think" an item is overpriced, this can potentially save an unsuspecting buyer.

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## RenaldoRheeder (6/11/17)

I still believe that we should simply introduce a commission fee on all sales to ECIGSSA. This starts touching onto moral issues which if difficult to judge. 


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## JsPLAYn (6/11/17)

RenaldoRheeder said:


> I still believe that we should simply introduce a commission fee on all sales to ECIGSSA. This starts touching onto moral issues which if difficult to judge.
> 
> 
> Sent by iDad's iPhone


My word  .. 

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## Silver (6/11/17)

Hi guys

This thread is good for us to read and its interesting to see the views of the members.

There are two issues here and I feel its important to separate them out

1. The issue of so called "flippers" selling 2nd hand goods for more than the recommended retail price.

2. The issue of folks using the Classifieds to regularly do this and in so doing they are trading as if they have a small business of sorts.

On issue 1), Personally, I don't like the act of "flipping". But its not something we can police easily neither is there a policy against such practice. Willing buyer, willing seller applies. Buyers need to do their research.

But on issue 2), if someone is using the Classifieds to run a business of sorts, then thats not cool and goes against the rules of the Classifieds, which are meant for personal trading only. 

So if someone regularly buys items only for the purpose of selling them on the Classifieds, then please notify the Admin and Mod team via PM or by reporting the post. The member concerned will be asked if they would like to apply to become a supporting vendor and if they are serious enough about it then its better for them to conduct that activity in their own dedicated vendor subforum while contributing toward the forum.

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## RenaldoRheeder (6/11/17)

JsPLAYn said:


> My word  ..
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk



My comment was based on the issue of paying supporting vendors vs flippers that don't contribute 


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## Clouds4Days (6/11/17)

Silver said:


> Hi guys
> 
> This thread is good for us to read and its interesting to see the views of the members.
> 
> ...



@Silver could we also maybe add on the classifieds template RRP .

I know iteam prices vary store to store but then in those cases the seller could always use the average price.
One store has iteam X for R400
Another store has iteam X for R550
Then RRP would be R475

Im with everyone (although i still dont think its right) on the fact a seller is can choose what ever so price he feels hes iteam is worth.

But i think if a seller has his price sitting next to the RRP it will in a way make the seller rethink their price.

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## Clouds4Days (6/11/17)

Marzuq said:


> If someone buys second hand gear and retail price then that is either because he is desperate for that piece of hardware or alternatively not clued up as to what the actual selling price of the item is. But the rest of guys wont get caught out by that and will call the seller out on the product.
> 
> In addition if i decide that i desperately need money for some private matter and sell all my guy at ridiculously low prices to a friend of mine who doesnt need it but buys it to help me out. why should he not be allowed to resell the items at whatever the going rate for second hand gear is?
> I dont really think this matter is an issue. Everybody is looking to make a buck. I say if they get a buyer then let them be.



I agree brother and i know it should be on the buyer to do research but i just cant help but feel someone will get taken advantage off.

There has been guys weve helped out on the forum where they say a friend's, friend is selling this mod and that mod for a certain amount "is it a good deal" he asks and it wasnt a good deal.

If we have RRP as a template on the classies this can help buyers especialy new peeps joing our ever growing forum.

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## Silver (6/11/17)

Clouds4Days said:


> @Silver could we also maybe add on the classifieds template RRP .
> 
> I know iteam prices vary store to store but then in those cases the seller could always use the average price.
> One store has iteam X for R400
> ...



Hi @Clouds4Days , while that might be a nice idea, its going to be very difficult for us to make sure that sellers put that piece of info in. And whether that info is reasonable or accurate. I think its up to buyers to do their homework and check out the prices on a few retailer websites. Dont think its too much trouble for buyers to do that before buying a second hand item.

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## Silver (6/11/17)

Clouds4Days said:


> I agree brother and i know it should be on the buyer to do research but i just cant help but feel someone will get taken advantage off.
> 
> There has been guys weve helped out on the forum where they say a friend's, friend is selling this mod and that mod for a certain amount "is it a good deal" he asks and it wasnt a good deal.
> 
> If we have RRP as a template on the classies this can help buyers especialy new peeps joing our ever growing forum.



@Clouds4Days , how about this

If you see a seller you feel has a price that is too high, rate the advert as "optimistic". Then PM the admin and mod team and lets see what we can do. If the seller is doing this repeatedly, we can ask them to stop this behaviour.

I spend a fair amount of time in the Classifieds and I do not believe this issue you are referring to is a common problem. But maybe I am mistaken. Please let me know examples of such adverts. If you do not feel comfortable linking them here, feel free to PM me with the details.

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## Pixstar (6/11/17)

Silver said:


> 2. The issue of folks using the Classifieds to regularly do this and in so doing they are trading as if they have a small business of sorts.


That and as per the OP, if you regularly do that on this forum then you should register as a vendor. My flipping 2c.

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## Marzuq (7/11/17)

@Silver @Clouds4Days while members trying to sell goods for higher than RRP is an issue, i feel trying to regulate this firstly will be an extremely expensive task in the way of time and then there is the issue of trying to tell someone what they can and cant sell their own items for.
Flippers selling for higher than RRP is an issue, i agree on that, but its up to the individual to do his research and ensure that he does not get caught while buying via the classifieds. Buying on the classifieds is a risk. one we all accept whether it be that you pay via eft for goods from someone outside your own are and then get stiffed. or whether the condition says 9/10 but when it reaches you its a 6/10.
Personally i feel this issue rather requires an awareness to be created around the topic rather than try to regulate it.

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## Strontium (7/11/17)

I don’t think of a flipper as someone that buys a product and adds 10-20% n then resells but rather guys that bring in a mod that should retail at R3000, they hype it up for weeks on the forum before it lands and once it does, they then go into raptures about how amazing and life changing it is, only for it to suddenly appear on the classifieds for R6000.

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## Rafique (7/11/17)

Whether the item being sold is new or second hand, it should be lower than the retail price once its on the classifieds.

I think buyers would need to use their discretion when buying and understand what the item is actually worth.

Those who are willing to buy it at the asking price, let it be. As per all other posts before this, if you are able to identify Flippers, make Admins aware but at the same time just by responding to the ad in the classifieds will make everyone aware. I myself use the classifieds alot mainly for trading gear but try to sell at a reasonable price and prices are always negotiable.

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## Daniel (7/11/17)

I definitely vote for the minimum posts option , easiest way to get rid of the 'roofkykers'.

I've seen members on here that have ONLY For Sale posts ... this constitutes being a vendor to me ....

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## Clouds4Days (7/11/17)

Rafique said:


> Whether the item being sold is new or second hand, it should be lower than the retail price once its on the classifieds.
> 
> I think buyers would need to use their discretion when buying and understand what the item is actually worth.
> 
> Those who are willing to buy it at the asking price, let it be. As per all other posts before this, if you are able to identify Flippers, make Admins aware but at the same time just by responding to the ad in the classifieds will make everyone aware. I myself use the classifieds alot mainly for trading gear but try to sell at a reasonable price and prices are always negotiable.



Yip i think its our own resposibility if we see a iteam selling for a high asking price to mention on the thread (but in a polite manner) that their asking price is very high.

Or even if one doesnt want to comment we can allways leave a optimistic remark on the OP.

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## alex1501 (7/11/17)

Daniel said:


> I definitely vote for the minimum posts option , easiest way to get rid of the 'roofkykers'.



Rule like that would put me in the definite disadvantage. If the minimum number of posts is set to 100 or more, I would be able to sell something on the forum sometimes in 2019 (maybe).

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## daniel craig (7/11/17)

alex1501 said:


> Rule like that would put me in the definite disadvantage. If the minimum number of posts is set to 100 or more, I would be able to sell something on the forum sometimes in 2019 (maybe).


Whilst you may be a legit seller, some people join the forum just to post ads as stated by @Daniel and this will likely lead to someone being scammed. By someone contributing to the forum, they become part of the forum. It's highly unlikely that someone will create an account, get to 100 or whatever posts just to scam people.

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## JsPLAYn (7/11/17)

alex1501 said:


> Rule like that would put me in the definite disadvantage. If the minimum number of posts is set to 100 or more, I would be able to sell something on the forum sometimes in 2019 (maybe).


So participate more in topics of discussions and other threads. The point of classified is for the 'members' ie. active users. And not someone who only registers to post an item for Sale .. as mentioned above 

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## CMMACKEM (7/11/17)

On the SA Gamer forum, forum members are prohibited from posting/creating threads in the classifieds section until they have reached 100 posts in the other sections(Moderators should be able to do this in the forum settings). Why not adopt the same policy?

Posting in the classifieds section is a privilege not a right and should/can be revoked if need be.

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## alex1501 (7/11/17)

daniel craig said:


> Whilst you may be a legit seller, some people join the forum just to post ads as stated by @Daniel and this will likely lead to someone being scammed. By someone contributing to the forum, they become part of the forum. It's highly unlikely that someone will create an account, get to 100 or whatever posts just to scam people.



More like "legit (cheapskate) buyer". While most of my posts being "PM sent" or "Sending PM", it's kind a difficult to predict how much time or money I'll need in order to hit 100 (or more).

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## alex1501 (7/11/17)

JsPLAYn said:


> So participate more in topics of discussions and other threads. The point of classified is for the 'members' ie. active users. And not someone who only registers to post an item for Sale .. as mentioned above



Ok. I'll make sure to do that. So far I've never tried to sell anything, but what if the need arise?

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## Smoke_A_Llama (7/11/17)

CMMACKEM said:


> On the SA Gamer forum, forum members are prohibited from posting/creating threads in the classifieds section until they have reached 100 posts in the other sections(Moderators should be able to do this in the forum settings). Why not adopt the same policy?
> 
> Posting in the classifieds section is a privilege not a right and should/can be revoked if need be.


 
Problem is then other threads will be choc full of chicken scratch and spam (I’m sure the mods would prefer to focus on more important things on here, rather than having to focus on cleaning up pointless replies to threads which are over a year old) .. I’ve been here +- 2 months and no where near 100 posts but by purchasing a mod and a tank from the classifieds I was introduced to the rebuilding side of the industry, if the 100 post privilege was invoked I’d probably still be using my ego aio ...so for creating threads maybe but preventing potential buyers from posting in the classifieds won’t lead to anything but less chance of a sale

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## alex1501 (7/11/17)

Smoke_A_Llama said:


> Problem is then other threads will be choc full of chicken scratch and spam (I’m sure the mods would prefer to focus on more important things on here, rather than having to focus on cleaning up pointless replies to threads which are over a year old) .. I’ve been here +- 2 months and no where near 100 posts but by purchasing a mod and a tank from the classifieds I was introduced to the rebuilding side of the industry, if the 100 post privilege was invoked I’d probably still be using my ego aio ...so for creating threads maybe but preventing potential buyers from posting in the classifieds won’t lead to anything but less chance of a sale



My point exactly. Right now forum is very informative and interesting to read, just imagine if every noob starts racing towards 100 mark.
BTW you are doing so much better than me.  lol

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## JsPLAYn (7/11/17)

alex1501 said:


> Ok. I'll make sure to do that. So far I've never tried to sell anything, but what if the need arise?


Then u post solong on OLX

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## Smoke_A_Llama (7/11/17)

alex1501 said:


> My point exactly. Right now forum is very informative and interesting to read, just imagine if every noob starts racing towards 100 mark.
> BTW you are doing so much better than me.  lol



I can just see it now....an endless stampede of “+1” reply to anything anyone says in a thread 

You’ll probably notice that 90% of my posts are k@k praat so don’t worry about it

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## CMMACKEM (7/11/17)

alex1501 said:


> My point exactly. Right now forum is very informative and interesting to read, just imagine if every *noob starts racing towards 100 mark*.
> BTW you are doing so much better than me.  lol



This MO is monitored by mods on SA Gamer and I have even seen normal forum members repremand offenders. It is easy to spot.

I am sure we can make the post mark lower if 100 is too much.

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## JsPLAYn (7/11/17)

This thread is totally useless .. its good that the point was risen but now everything has been mentioned and @Silver has hit the nail on the head with his response as to how it will and can be handled. Further discussion on this thread will not make a diference, but more become a nuisance and eventually end up in a debate and then all hell breaks loose.. 



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