# Hello And Some Questions, Vaping - Illegal Without Script, Commercial Price Is High Etc..



## JakesSA (23/3/14)

Good day all, I am recently converted vaper (2 weeks now) and intend never to touch a cigarette again.

First off it seems that a change to the Medicines and Related Substances Act now classifies nicotine as a schedule 3 substance requiring a doctors script and to be sold at pharmacies only. Can you imagine what the price would be, I'll be damned if I buy my supplies via the wholly corrupt medical industry!! Its an odd decision but worrying to me and the article that references it is clearly misguided in that it states the big tobacco companies actually produces e-ciggs and liquids. Not so much to my knowledge ..
http://www.health-e.org.za/2013/04/16/sale-of-e-cigs-illegal-in-sa/
Anyone have some comments on this?

It also seems that the commonly available (read Twisp, tobacconists etc) commercial liquids are quite expensive and the equipment even more so. This will present a large barrier to entry for the non-informed me thinks. Going this route will work out as expensive as normal cigarettes. I currently own the Twisp setup unfortunately, it was an impulse buy and I did not do my homework ... 

S00 .. my mission for 2014 is to ensure I can become independent, as far as possible, in my vaping habbit and assist others where possible to do the same..


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## Andre (23/3/14)

Most welcome to the forum. Feel free to browse around. Shoot if you have questions.
As far as I could ascertain the legal position as set out in that article is correct, but clearly not applied. Customs also applies very inconsistently re e-liquids - have heard of confiscations, but also of 45 % tax.


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## JakesSA (23/3/14)

Seems the risk is real then. From what I gather in the popular media, moves are now afoot all over the world to discourage e-smoking, perhaps most of it sensationalist I am sure but I suspect once the medical fraternity realises there's a buck to be made here ....


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## BhavZ (23/3/14)

So called "hazardous" substances like nic have always carried a risk when importing. The issue is that it has not been enforced properly. For personal consumption they generally do not confiscate the product do charge a high import duty, when ordering larger quantities, which to the ill-informed may seem as purchased for the purpose of resale, then the rules are enforced a bit more and confiscation of product can occur.

Nic has also been classified as an S3 substance due to its addictive properties and the danger there of. Also the legislation states that nic cannot be sold by pharmacies if it has a level higher than 9mg. If I am not mistaken one can import nic without any issue if you have a permit. Getting the permit is the problem and I think that research needs to be done by vendors as to ascertain how to go about getting a permit so as to safe guard them when importing.

Just as a side note, the medical industry is not corrupt, it is the pharmaceutical industry that is corrupt. Drug manufactures would want to keep the big tobacco industry running as it would provide sales for their drugs.


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## JakesSA (23/3/14)

Yes, I think that is probably closer to the truth, pharma is where the big money lies .. 

Anyways, time to start building some contacts.


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## Silver (23/3/14)

Welcome @JakesSA. Glad you joined the forum and shared such interesting views.
All the best for the vaping!


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## JakesSA (23/3/14)

Thanks, I am really glad to have found such a lively vaping community here in SA!


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## Hein510 (23/3/14)

I dont know where these people (goverment) come up with only Pharmacies can sell nicotine as I've spoken to the owner of a big MKEM in Bellville, when I asked when he will start selling e-juice he stated that they may not sell nicotine products.


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## Andre (23/3/14)

Hein510 said:


> I dont know where these people (goverment) come up with only Pharmacies can sell nicotine as I've spoken to the owner of a big MKEM in Bellville, when I asked when he will start selling e-juice he stated that they may not sell nicotine products.


They are the only people selling nicotine gum, spray and patches.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Rob Fisher (23/3/14)

Matthee said:


> They are the only people selling nicotine gum, spray and patches.


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## devdev (23/3/14)

Finally had some time to review the Medicine and Related Substances Control Act

It is really bad news - especially for retailers. 

Penalties for dispensing nicotine in contravention of the act can result in a fine or no more than 10 years in jail (it is typically not the judiciary's intention to jail first time offenders, so I think the jail sentence applies largely to repeat offenders or anyone with the hard drugs, classified as Schedule 6 and up).

It also authorizes a health department official to access any premises suspected of being used to assist in the committing of an offence in terms of the act, and to secure any records, documents, equipment or similar that is being used at those premises if they have reason to suspect it was involved in the committing of the offence.

Finally they can seize and destroy (or forfeit to the state) any substance possessed in contravention of the law.

Full legislation can be downloaded from here: 

http://elearning.trree.org/pluginfi...ubstancesControl-101-1965.pdf?forcedownload=1


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## Silver (23/3/14)

That is not good @devdev 
Thanks for checking it out - but that disappoints me.


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## devdev (23/3/14)

Yeah I agree @Silver it is super crap!

I agree there is a requirement to regulate the industry, but I feel the effect of this is that it keeps people in the trap of analogs, which is quite simply unacceptable.

Each one of us is living proof that in the short to medium term the behaviour we are partaking in is not causing nearly the same amount of damage as the tobacco industry. I have my personal doubts that it has any real negative long term effect either.

Maybe it is good news that BAT and Philip Morris are moving in to the eCig arena. If anyone has the cash and influence to get the health department to change their classification it has got to be 'big business'

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Silver (23/3/14)

The way I see it is that big tobacco will follow the money.

If there is money to be made in vaping, they will likely try to be in it. 

I just think that vaping gear and juice is not their thing at the moment. The vaping industry appears to me to be quite fragmented and still small. It may be tough for Big Tobacco to end up in a similar commanding position to what they are now, but they are sure going to try. Will be fun to watch...


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## Vixen (18/7/14)

Does anyone have any updated info as far as this thread goes? This is not good news at all


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## Derick (18/7/14)

Vixen said:


> Does anyone have any updated info as far as this thread goes? This is not good news at all


 
Hi,

check out this post
http://www.ecigssa.co.za/threads/retailers-of-e-cigarettes-breaking-the-law.3174/#post-72234

Quote from it
_The Medicines and related substances control Act of 1965, (Act No. 101 of 1965) amended and updated to becomes the Medicines and related substances control Act of 1997, (Act No.90 of 1997), with the latest updated schedules as published in Government Notice R104, with the highest schedule of Nicotine being stated as S3, “when intended for human medicinal use as an aid to smoking cessation, or as a substitute for a tobacco product”
Section 22A of Control of Medicines and Scheduled substances, specifies who may import, distribute, sell or have in their possession Nicotine, (listed as a Schedule 3 drug, as above).
However, Subsection 17, of Section 22A of the very same Control of medicines and Scheduled substances Act, states that “For the purposes of this section” “'medicinal purpose' means for the purposes of the treatment or prevention of a disease or some other definite curative or therapeutic purpose, but does not include the satisfaction or relief of a habit or craving for the substance used” And that right there, is the statement that everyone is either ignoring or missing when trying to force the legislation to apply to vaping products._

Reactions: Informative 3


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