# What am i missing from my analogue?



## heino (19/8/16)

Good day everybody, hope you are well. As you can see I am new to vaping. Only been a month now but still keeping strong. Wasn't sure if I should post this on the noobs corner or ask a veteran. Anyhow I was wondering about something...

Since I started vaping I never feel totally satisfied. By that I mean I don't get that same feeling I had when I finished my analogue. Usually when I was done with it I had that "satisfied" feeling and could operate for another hour before I craved that feeling again. Now that is what stumps me. With the vaping I am getting all the essential ingredients that I want from smoking. Nicotine first and foremost, social pleasure , A nice cloud and as a bonus I can use whatever flavor I want yet after I take a few pulls from my vape I don't get that feeling that I got from the stinkies.
That has led me to believe that maybe its something else that is missing. Could it be that body is craving for all the other garbage that's in a sig? I am no expert so that is why I am asking is there anybody on this forum that feels the same thing or is it just in my head? Just for the record I vape 12 mg Nic because if I go higher than that then I get sick from the stuff.

Just one more question. I have realized that I don't know what a sig taste like. When I smoke the chemicals numb your mouth so you don't really taste anything now that I am trying to make my own juice with vaping I have no idea what it should taste like. Let me correct myself I know what it taste like but I have no idea how to describe it so how do I even begin to make my recipes if I don't know that. I know this must sound very dumb because what person doesn't know what something taste like but that is the situation that I am in. must be my unrefined palate 

Apologies for rambling but I would like to get your insights on this.

Reactions: Like 3 | Winner 1


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## Kalashnikov (19/8/16)

hi @heino . Well a ecig is not going to give you the same feeling as a Cig cause its completely different. Also remember the only reason you enjoyed the cigarette was the nicotine. Your mouth and taste buds had to over come the other chemicals before you started enjoying it.. Vaping is also the same in the sense you get the nicotine through inhalation but the taste is different. Your mouth just needs to get used to associating nice flavours with nicotine and not just bad tasting chemicals. It takes getting used to but your body will get to the point where normal cigarettes taste like Jik. Only way that happens is laying off the stinkies for a while. Maybe try get some tobacco flavours. 

Also What device are you using? Maybe you need something that pack a serious punch

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## shabbar (19/8/16)

all new vapers look for is a flavor that tastes like the cigarette they smoked and in my opinion don't start with tobaccos but rather a fruit or dessert flavor with decent throat hit. the transition for me was easy because back in the day when i first started out you only found juice in 18mg (liquas etc) with 50/50 mix and that provided the throat hit i was missing from cigarettes

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## zadiac (19/8/16)

What nic strength are you vaping at? 
What was the strength of the analogs you used to smoke?
How often did you smoke?
How often do you vape?

Reactions: Like 1


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## The_Ice (19/8/16)

Hi @heino welcome.

I feel I went through the same process. I vaped until I could feel a silver coming on, but still a part of my cravings was left unsatisfied.

I believe nicotine is not the only addictive ingredient in analogues, and it takes a bit of time for these cravings to pass.

The flavour in the stage you find yourself in is not paramount, but I went with very pronounced flavours ( if it's something sweet, make it very sweet, sour, very sour etc) you should also consider something with menthol if you are up for it and go for a lekker high nic content.

With time as your cravings start disappearing you'll also notice increased taste and flavour perception. This is when I would suggest getting into flavour nuances etc

Good luck and God speed

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## shaunnadan (19/8/16)

heino said:


> Good day everybody, hope you are well. As you can see I am new to vaping. Only been a month now but still keeping strong. Wasn't sure if I should post this on the noobs corner or ask a veteran. Anyhow I was wondering about something...
> 
> Since I started vaping I never feel totally satisfied. By that I mean I don't get that same feeling I had when I finished my analogue. Usually when I was done with it I had that "satisfied" feeling and could operate for another hour before I craved that feeling again. Now that is what stumps me. With the vaping I am getting all the essential ingredients that I want from smoking. Nicotine first and foremost, social pleasure , A nice cloud and as a bonus I can use whatever flavor I want yet after I take a few pulls from my vape I don't get that feeling that I got from the stinkies.
> That has led me to believe that maybe its something else that is missing. Could it be that body is craving for all the other garbage that's in a sig? I am no expert so that is why I am asking is there anybody on this forum that feels the same thing or is it just in my head? Just for the record I vape 12 mg Nic because if I go higher than that then I get sick from the stuff.
> ...


Hey

Welcome to the forum and congrats on kicking the habit. 1 month strong ! 

"The allure of a cigarette" sounds silly but it's not just the nicotine that gets us addicted. There is something about that initial draw once lit up that can be described as you put it "satisfaction". Some thing other than nicotine which is there to stimulate the chemicals in your brain and when you dont smoke for a while then your body goes into withdrawal and you start to get cravings. 

I'm my personal experience this allure disappeared long ago. I knew i wanted to quit but none of the other mechanisms were working. Each cigarette was lit and I had this immediate sense of regret. Like a sickening taste in my mouth . 

So I started vaping and was super energetic and ready to conquer the world.... But the cravings only subsided. It wasn't fully hitting the spot (I did have really sub standard equipment back then) but the one thing I knew for sure was that if I smoked a single cigarette I was done for. it would have overturned the few days of abstinence and I would have effectively wasted tons of money and most importantly was that I would be disappointed in myself. 

So I persevered. Something that was made much easier having found this forum and realising I wasn't alone in this struggle.

After a month my main issue was the fear that my gear would break or fail and I would be stranded. I started to hunt around and found bigger and better things to use and then like a lightning bolt hitting me the thought cigarettes vanished!!!

I immersed myself into this new hobby and without a doubt know that it's been one of the greatest step forward I've made in life. 

So just keep it up, take it one day at a time and you will see that your body will repair itself. 


With regards to the diy. 

Cigarettes really screw up our taste buds! Once I started vaping I found I could smell and taste everything differently. I could pick up little nuances in food that I never knew were there. 

The best thing for you to do is to taste each thing individually and see what you like. Taste your ingredients on their own and see what's your favourite and then make more complex recipes based on that.

Reactions: Like 8 | Winner 1


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## RichJB (19/8/16)

@heino, congrats on stopping smoking. That is the main thing.

I think you're experiencing what most vapers do: that despite Hon Lik's founding principle that vaping should replicate smoking as closely as possible, it doesn't. This was touched on in the excellent BBC Horizon documentary Myth or Menace, which I urge you to YouTube if you haven't seen it already. The nub of the issue is that cigarettes deliver nicotine in a way that nothing else - vaping, patches, gum, lozenges, inhalers - can replicate. It is believed that the nicotine reacts with other chemicals in the smoke to make the cigarette-delivered form of nicotine extremely effective and satisfying. And the most addictive form as well. As such, I think we just have to accept that vaping nicotine doesn't do quite the same job that tobacco nicotine does. Nevertheless, vaping is an excellent halfway house between smoking and quitting. As research progresses, vaping may find a way to replicate the smoking hit. But even if it doesn't, it's still infinitely better than going cold turkey.

Regarding the taste issue, I don't know if smoking does some permanent damage to our taste sensation or not. I gave up smoking a couple of decades ago and was amazed at how much better everything tasted. When I gave up this time (I gave up in Jan this year), I was expecting the same vast improvement in my taste. Yet the improvement I noticed was only slight, if anything. I don't know if that is an ageing thing or just an "I smoked too long" thing. But it is what it is so I have to live with it.

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## heino (19/8/16)

Thank you Shaunnadan. I will try my best but luckily I know the perks of vaping outweighs the perks of smoking. I think maybe I went into vaping thinking that I would get the exact same feeling as with my analogue but that obviously isn't the case. Luckily I don't have withdrawals because of the nicotine now its just a case of getting over this feeling. will take some time I guess. Diy is the best will just have to experiment. Luckily that is part of the fun

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## heino (19/8/16)

Kalashnikov said:


> hi @heino . Well a ecig is not going to give you the same feeling as a Cig cause its completely different. Also remember the only reason you enjoyed the cigarette was the nicotine. Your mouth and taste buds had to over come the other chemicals before you started enjoying it.. Vaping is also the same in the sense you get the nicotine through inhalation but the taste is different. Your mouth just needs to get used to associating nice flavours with nicotine and not just bad tasting chemicals. It takes getting used to but your body will get to the point where normal cigarettes taste like Jik. Only way that happens is laying off the stinkies for a while. Maybe try get some tobacco flavours.
> 
> Also What device are you using? Maybe you need something that pack a serious punch


@kalashinikov. I went with a medium setup, Ileaf 80 watt and steamcraves aromamizer so I don't know if I am getting enough nicotine from this setup. I am currently on sub ohm build (just) but yet again I don't know if it is enough


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## heino (19/8/16)

shabbar said:


> all new vapers look for is a flavor that tastes like the cigarette they smoked and in my opinion don't start with tobaccos but rather a fruit or dessert flavor with decent throat hit. the transition for me was easy because back in the day when i first started out you only found juice in 18mg (liquas etc) with 50/50 mix and that provided the throat hit i was missing from cigarettes


@shabar

Currently I am on the 50/50 pg vg mix because of that exact fact


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## heino (19/8/16)

zadiac said:


> What nic strength are you vaping at?
> What was the strength of the analogs you used to smoke?
> How often did you smoke?
> How often do you vape?


@zadiac 
I was smoking 2 packs a day before. Winston menthol.

Currently I am vaping very frequently. I am allowed to vape at my desk so I do it every few minutes or so... is that to frequent?


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## shabbar (19/8/16)

heino said:


> @shabar
> 
> Currently I am on the 50/50 pg vg mix because of that exact fact



what strength juice ?


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## heino (19/8/16)

The_Ice said:


> Hi @heino welcome.
> 
> I feel I went through the same process. I vaped until I could feel a silver coming on, but still a part of my cravings was left unsatisfied.
> 
> ...


@The_Ice

Thank you dude. I thought I was the only one. good to know its not just in my head.

I have a potent ice blast mix that I use. It helps

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## shabbar (19/8/16)

would also suggest a MTL tank to replicate the draw of a cigarette with a 6/12mg 50/50 juice.


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## Andre (19/8/16)

shabbar said:


> would also suggest a MTL tank to replicate the draw of a cigarette with a 6/12mg 50/50 juice.


Yip, try a MTL (mouth to lung) tank, but as you are already on 12 mg with DTL (direct to lung) equipment you might need 18 mg for MTL.

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## Soutie (19/8/16)

I found when i started vaping that in addition to the nicotine (and other potentially addictive substances) in the analogue i missed the ritual of smoking. The habbit picking up a box of smokes and lighting a cigarette, so much so that I would vape, put down my vape and then a second later automatically start searching for a box of cigarettes. we are very much creatures of habit and doing something 20 times a day for 25 years ingrains it into our minds so much that you start getting withdrawl from that ritual.

That lasted about two or three weeks for me but was one of the harder parts of making the transition.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2 | Informative 1


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## heino (19/8/16)

RichJB said:


> @heino, congrats on stopping smoking. That is the main thing.
> 
> I think you're experiencing what most vapers do: that despite Hon Lik's founding principle that vaping should replicate smoking as closely as possible, it doesn't. This was touched on in the excellent BBC Horizon documentary Myth or Menace, which I urge you to YouTube if you haven't seen it already. The nub of the issue is that cigarettes deliver nicotine in a way that nothing else - vaping, patches, gum, lozenges, inhalers - can replicate. It is believed that the nicotine reacts with other chemicals in the smoke to make the cigarette-delivered form of nicotine extremely effective and satisfying. And the most addictive form as well. As such, I think we just have to accept that vaping nicotine doesn't do quite the same job that tobacco nicotine does. Nevertheless, vaping is an excellent halfway house between smoking and quitting. As research progresses, vaping may find a way to replicate the smoking hit. But even if it doesn't, it's still infinitely better than going cold turkey.
> 
> Regarding the taste issue, I don't know if smoking does some permanent damage to our taste sensation or not. I gave up smoking a couple of decades ago and was amazed at how much better everything tasted. When I gave up this time (I gave up in Jan this year), I was expecting the same vast improvement in my taste. Yet the improvement I noticed was only slight, if anything. I don't know if that is an ageing thing or just an "I smoked too long" thing. But it is what it is so I have to live with it.


@RichJB 

Thank its just strange. I know two people that vaped before me and they said they never missed the analogues from day 1. So I thought maybe I am doing something wrong .My taste buds are ruined I have been smoking menthol sigs for a long time don't think it did them any good. Hopefully the taste will return after a while

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## heino (19/8/16)

shabbar said:


> what strength juice ?


@shabbar 

12 mg if I go higher than that I get very sick


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## heino (19/8/16)

Soutie said:


> I found when i started vaping that in addition to the nicotine (and other potentially addictive substances) in the analogue i missed the ritual of smoking. The habbit picking up a box of smokes and lighting a cigarette, so much so that I would vape, put down my vape and then a second later automatically start searching for a box of cigarettes. we are very much creatures of habit and doing something 20 times a day for 25 years ingrains it into our minds so much that you start getting withdrawl from that ritual.
> 
> That lasted about two or three weeks for me but was one of the harder parts of making the transition.


@Soutie 

We are creatures of habit and most habits are bad and difficult to break so maybe its in my head after all , lol


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## Soutie (19/8/16)

heino said:


> @Soutie
> 
> We are creatures of habit and most habits are bad and difficult to break so maybe its in my head after all , lol



That said I also believe that there are other things in Cigarettes that, in combination with the nicotine, cause all numbers of other dependencies. There are thousands of chemical compounds in a cigarette and any number of these are potentially addictive.

Moving from Smoking to vaping not easy, but man its a helluva lot easier than trying to quit smoking any other way.

Best move you could have made was clicking that "sign up" link at the top of this page though. This has been an amazing resource to keep me motivated and in all honesty there is a definite possibility I would have a smoke in my hand right now if I didn't.


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## Warlock (19/8/16)

Hi @heino go and read this article in Discovery Magazine. http://discovermagazine.com/2014/march/13-nicotine-fix



The crux of the matter appears to be this.

“ In short, the estimated 45.3 million people, or 19.3 percent of all adults, in the United States who still smoke are not nicotine fiends. They’re nicotine-anabasine-nornicotine-anatabine-cotinine-myosmine-acetaldehyde-and-who-knows-what-else fiends. It is tobacco, with its thousands of chemical constituents, that rightly merits our fear and loathing as the Great Satan of addictiveness. Nicotine, alone: not so much. “

Hope this helps.

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## Alex (19/8/16)

You mentioned smoking Winston Menthol, so I assume you've tried a variety of menthol juices? If not, can I suggest "Tropical Ice" from Vapour Mountain. It can be custom made to your specs if needed. 

I would suggest trying out a Mouth to lung setup, something like the Ego AIO with an 18mg nic content at lower watts. http://www.joyetech.com/product/ego-aio/?age-verified=fa9e01be05


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## heino (19/8/16)

Alex said:


> You mentioned smoking Winston Menthol, so I assume you've tried a variety of menthol juices? If not, can I suggest "Tropical Ice" from Vapour Mountain. It can be custom made to your specs if needed.
> 
> I would suggest trying out a Mouth to lung setup, something like the Ego AIO with an 18mg nic content at lower watts. http://www.joyetech.com/product/ego-aio/?age-verified=fa9e01be05


@Alex

Thank you Alex. I will have a look at my options. I want to save for a bigger mod and buying the joytec is another 500 rand. but if the cravings don't stop I will have to look at this option. maybe I must just stop crying about it and just man up until the craving goes away , hopefully it wont be for much longer

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## heino (19/8/16)

Warlock said:


> Hi @heino go and read this article in Discovery Magazine. http://discovermagazine.com/2014/march/13-nicotine-fix
> 
> 
> 
> ...


@Warlock

I read the article, thank you very insightful. The crux seem that I am more addicted to the other chemicals in in sig than the nicotine. So what you are saying is that we will still get the cravings unless we mix the juice with all the other ingredients found in the sig. I will just have to bear the pain until it fades away


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## Caveman (19/8/16)

Hi @heino , congrats on kicking the habit. 

I know the feeling you are talking about, the flavor is there, you feel satisfied as far as craving goes, but something about it is lacking, just missing the spot so to speak. Direct to lung had this affect on me in the beginning. Cigarettes are filled with chemicals to get us addicted. Like the nicotine is boosted with ammonium, for more impact and higher absorption rate. 

The best advise I can give is get a MTL (Mouth to Lung) tank. For me I vape 6mg nicotine at a 50/50 mix when using my MTL tanks, and 2 -3 mg nic in 70/30 or 60/40 mix in my direct lung tanks. The MTL tanks are the only thing that hits the spot and gets the throat hit just right. 

Stay strong, the experience changes over time and pretty soon you won't have that missing feeling anymore.

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## Silver (19/8/16)

Hi @heino
I haven't read all the posts in this thread - but I did read your original post

Just wanted to say hang in there. And I know exactly what you mean about vaping not giving that same "satisfied" feeling of an analogue smoke.

I felt the same in the early days. 

My advice is up the nicotine level and try find a great tobacco vape or maybe a tobacco menthol one. Or just add some menthol to a tobacco juice. You will find its quite good. Not quite the same as I recall from a real smoke but almost there. 

Hang in there and do more experimentation with juices (and nic strength) and devices - I think vaping can get very close to the real thing... not saying thats the end goal - but it can be very close in terms of that satisfaction

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## heino (19/8/16)

Caveman said:


> Hi @heino , congrats on kicking the habit.
> 
> I know the feeling you are talking about, the flavor is there, you feel satisfied as far as craving goes, but something about it is lacking, just missing the spot so to speak. Direct to lung had this affect on me in the beginning. Cigarettes are filled with chemicals to get us addicted. Like the nicotine is boosted with ammonium, for more impact and higher absorption rate.
> 
> ...


@Caveman 
Thank you dude. I am starting to seriously consider if I should by mtl device. maybe from vapecon  or I will stick it out. really love my rba and want to continue with it


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## Silver (19/8/16)

heino said:


> @Caveman
> Thank you dude. I am starting to seriously consider if I should by mtl device. maybe from vapecon  or I will stick it out. really love my rba and want to continue with it



A good MTL device with a good strong juice is super @heino

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## Caveman (19/8/16)

heino said:


> @Caveman
> Thank you dude. I am starting to seriously consider if I should by mtl device. maybe from vapecon  or I will stick it out. really love my rba and want to continue with it



If you are comfortable with rebuilding, I would suggest the Kayfun V3 mini, in fact I would suggest getting one in any case  everyone should have a MTL tank in their arsenal, even if it is just to try it out with. If you don't like the look of it, I use my Serpent Mini for MTL as well, works perfectly fine to that extent also. My goto tank for MTL is still the Kayfun though. As @Silver suggested, maybe try a good menthol, I can't comment on tobacco since I hated tobacco and only recently started taking a liking to it. Menthol I find quickly gets rid of any craving for an analogue.

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## heino (19/8/16)

Silver said:


> Hi @heino
> I haven't read all the posts in this thread - but I did read your original post
> 
> Just wanted to say hang in there. And I know exactly what you mean about vaping not giving that same "satisfied" feeling of an analogue smoke.
> ...



@Silver 
I think that is the first thing I am going to do tonight. Will be making a 15ml nic batch hopefully it doesn't make me sick and get a MTL device. The consensus has been conclusive in that regard

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## SAVaper (19/8/16)

Hi,

I had the exact same experience. In the first 4 weeks of vaping I was searching for a juice to replicate the menthol taste of the menthol cigarettes I used to smoke. It was an impossible task. Nothing compared.

It took about 6 weeks for me to settle down. Most sweet juices made it worse. What helped me was a minty menthol DIY that I got from a forum member. I would be happy to give you some if you want. I say it "helped" because it did not completely taste the same but by 6 weeks I started getting used to vaping. This forum really helped.

It really is a "vasbyt" situation.

As for the taste it will change over time. Some of the juice I vaped in the first 4 weeks I could not stomach but now they are quite tasty. If you don't like it just shelve it and try it again in 2 weeks or so.

My advice would be to stick it out and to search until you find the juice that works for you.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## heino (19/8/16)

SAVaper said:


> Hi,
> 
> I had the exact same experience. In the first 4 weeks of vaping I was searching for a juice to replicate the menthol taste of the menthol cigarettes I used to smoke. It was an impossible task. Nothing compared.
> 
> ...


@SAVaper 

Thank you mate. I have been overwhelmed by all the vapers that went through the same thing as me. I though I was the only one. Usually people just say is like the analogue. In truth its not the same but it beats going cold turkey.

I initially bought vape elixir's qalactin hypermint and it helped when I ran out of it I thought I could just use my black cigar flavor but I almost quit vaping that day because of the black cigar. I almost took an analogue from my co-worker, luckily I rushed to blue-sky and got one of their house brands, ice blast. it calmed the nerves. there is something in the menthol\koolada mix that helps with the initial withdrawal stages. as time passed 3 weeks or so I could start to smoke my other flavors more frequently. The craving is still there but its bearable. I just hope it gets better

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## Huffapuff (19/8/16)

I can relate to all that's been said above. Making the transition from analogue to digital was a journey for me.

I started with higher nic juices and moved into DIY to save on the costs. But I would still vape and smoke - until I started to take DIY more seriously. Then I began to get jealous of how everyone spoke about flavour profiles and top notes and how they could break down flavours while cloning a juice, and I thought: stuff this - I want to be able to do that too! 

I began to really notice how smoking wiped my sense of taste away for a few days and so whenever I got a craving to light up a stinky I'd remind myself of how little I'd enjoy my juices afterwards. 

Over time the craving for a stinky morphed into a craving for a better taste experience ￼

Keep at it @heino it does get easier

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## Marius Combrink (19/8/16)

Hi @heino 
Welcome to the most epic forum you will ever belong to.
I know and most forumites was also in your situation.
If I can give you my 2c. Get yourself an Evod tank. Its like R80. Its a HARD hitting little tank. Put some 18mg juice in it. I know you say over 12 makes you sick but the evod is pure MTL and makes 18mg alot easier. I have been through many tanks and love sub ohm vaping at 3 to 6mg but still on a daily basis I use my evod or nautilus mini with 18mg just for the craving and throat hit.

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## Viper_SA (19/8/16)

Try looking for a WTA (whole tobacco alkaloid) juice. Ecigs only deliver nicotine. Whereas tobacco delivers the whole alkaloid group in which nicotine is found. Don't remember all the chemistry around it,but Google it. Quite interesting.


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## heino (20/8/16)

Marius Combrink said:


> Hi @heino
> Welcome to the most epic forum you will ever belong to.
> I know and most forumites was also in your situation.
> If I can give you my 2c. Get yourself an Evod tank. Its like R80. Its a HARD hitting little tank. Put some 18mg juice in it. I know you say over 12 makes you sick but the evod is pure MTL and makes 18mg alot easier. I have been through many tanks and love sub ohm vaping at 3 to 6mg but still on a daily basis I use my evod or nautilus mini with 18mg just for the craving and throat hit.


@Marius Combrink 

thank you mate. there so many options out there it's easy to get overwhelmed with what to choose but saying the cheaper option is always preferable. I will give it a bash


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## heino (20/8/16)

Huffapuff said:


> I can relate to all that's been said above. Making the transition from analogue to digital was a journey for me.
> 
> I started with higher nic juices and moved into DIY to save on the costs. But I would still vape and smoke - until I started to take DIY more seriously. Then I began to get jealous of how everyone spoke about flavour profiles and top notes and how they could break down flavours while cloning a juice, and I thought: stuff this - I want to be able to do that too!
> 
> ...


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