# Cloned juices or clearance sale?



## OPium46 (31/7/17)

Hey guys.. Stumbled upon this sale today. 

These prices are stupid cheap and I don't wanna pass it up. Either way I'm gonna get a bottle to try. 

Just wondering what your guys thoughts are.












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## aktorsyl (31/7/17)

Either 1) cloned, or 2) really REALLY old.
I highly doubt there's a 3) legit

But eh, I've been wrong before

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Scissorhands (31/7/17)

I wouldn't

The rest of the shop should give you an idea of what you are dealing with


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## OPium46 (31/7/17)

Scissorhands said:


> I wouldn't
> 
> The rest of the shop should give you an idea of what you are dealing with


Yeah I definitely agree. Although I'm still gonna grab a bottle, even if it is the most atrocious stuff ever, I won't be losing much.


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## aktorsyl (31/7/17)

OPium46 said:


> I won't be losing much.


That's what you say now, you don't know what's in that sh*&t.

EDIT: censored myself, because yknow

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Eisenhorn (1/8/17)

The entire shop seems to be on "Sale", with no difference in prices. Also no stock of local juices. Warning bells!
95% chance it's fake, very old or at best stolen (or any combination of the above). 
Fake juice isn't a game and has landed people in hospital.
You could lose more than you can afford 

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Reactions: Like 1


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## Cloud Beast King (1/8/17)

Where is this shop


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## RichJB (1/8/17)

I don't know if this is anything to go by as I have little experience of commercial juice packaging. But this is the picture of BLVK Unicake packaging on their website:




There seems to be a whole lot more colour in the manufacturer's label than the one in the OP. The CAKE lettering is in different colours as opposed to plain black and the unicorn's mane and tail also feature several graded colours, with far more resolution and subtleties than the pic in the OP. I don't know if BLVK upgraded their packaging recently, which might explain the difference. But it looks like the label in the OP is just a cheap copy of the original manufacturer's label.

There is also different spacing in the font. Look at the narrow gap between the R and the N of Unicorn in the original. Now look at the much wider gap between R and N in the OP. Also look at the K of BLVK in the manufacturer's label. There is a very slight gap between the upright | and the < to form the K. In the OP, the < touches the |. The I in Unicorn is equidistant from the N and C in the original, it's much closer to the C in the OP. The E of E-liquid falls directly underneath the gap between the C and O or Unicorn in the original. In the OP, it is more under the O. There are just too many differences for me to accept that this is an original.

Reactions: Like 2


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## OPium46 (1/8/17)

RichJB said:


> I don't know if this is anything to go by as I have little experience of commercial juice packaging. But this is the picture of BLVK Unicake packaging on their website:
> 
> View attachment 102888
> 
> ...


Yeah you are absolutely right.

On 2nd thought, I'm gonna take a pass on this "sale"

Reactions: Agree 1


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## OPium46 (1/8/17)

Eisenhorn said:


> The entire shop seems to be on "Sale", with no difference in prices. Also no stock of local juices. Warning bells!
> 95% chance it's fake, very old or at best stolen (or any combination of the above).
> Fake juice isn't a game and has landed people in hospital.
> You could lose more than you can afford
> ...


Yeah I'm gonna steer well clear of this shite

Reactions: Like 1


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## aktorsyl (1/8/17)

OPium46 said:


> Yeah I'm gonna steer well clear of this shite


Phew, thank gosh.
Good decision, man.

Reactions: Thanks 1


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## zadiac (1/8/17)

Still don't know where this shop is.

Reactions: Like 1


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## BushBaBy (1/8/17)

Canal Walk, in that Trading Post walk through area.

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## BeardedVaper93 (1/8/17)

There is a very scaly asian store near me in PTA north that has cloned Nasty Juice for R80.00 

A friend and i bought one to try it, and (i am NOT defending the store, i am NOT encouraginging the juice and i am NOT saying it is right,) but there was nothing wrong with the taste at all and it tastes 98% like the real thing.

please, i do not need a bash-me society happening, i am just saying that if you have bought this before by mistake, there is no 6th finger growing on my hand or a sudden bloody cough. i am 100% healthy and it tasted good.

Clone? hell yes
Dangerous? i wont say yes.

Reactions: Like 1 | Thanks 1 | Informative 1


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## Coldcat (1/8/17)

BushBaBy said:


> Canal Walk, in that Trading Post walk through area.


Only know of the one that sell Vape Addicts liquids in there. Unless another has opened. Craig there came across pretty legit and very against of using cheap products in his own liquids he makes. Not defending him as I don't know him that well, just find it odd if it were his store.


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## bjorncoetsee (1/8/17)

Has anyone ever tried one of these cloned juices? And how the taste compares to the original?


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## BeardedVaper93 (1/8/17)

bjorncoetsee said:


> Has anyone ever tried one of these cloned juices? And how the taste compares to the original?



There is a very scaly asian store near me in PTA north that has cloned Nasty Juice for R80.00 

A friend and i bought one to try it, and (i am NOT defending the store, i am NOT encouraginging the juice and i am NOT saying it is right,) but there was nothing wrong with the taste at all and it tastes 98% like the real thing.

please, i do not need a bash-me society happening, i am just saying that if you have bought this before by mistake, there is no 6th finger growing on my hand or a sudden bloody cough. i am 100% healthy and it tasted good.

Clone? hell yes
Dangerous? i wont say yes.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Gersh (1/8/17)

BeardedVaper93 said:


> There is a very scaly asian store near me in PTA north that has cloned Nasty Juice for R80.00
> 
> A friend and i bought one to try it, and (i am NOT defending the store, i am NOT encouraginging the juice and i am NOT saying it is right,) but there was nothing wrong with the taste at all and it tastes 98% like the real thing.
> 
> ...



The one true comment you will probably never see again 

(i am also NOT defending the store, i am also NOT encouraginging the juice and i am also NOT saying it is right)

Reactions: Like 1


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## bjorncoetsee (1/8/17)

BeardedVaper93 said:


> There is a very scaly asian store near me in PTA north that has cloned Nasty Juice for R80.00
> 
> A friend and i bought one to try it, and (i am NOT defending the store, i am NOT encouraginging the juice and i am NOT saying it is right,) but there was nothing wrong with the taste at all and it tastes 98% like the real thing.
> 
> ...


That's what i was thinking. Maybe just like diyers try to clone juices, with BP grade vg and pg and well known flavorings, maybe these guys does the same. Maybe its not as risky as everyone claims it to be, even without trying it first. Why would they put poison or bad vg pg and flavoring in if vg pg and flavors are already so cheap? Im not saying its right to clone and sell for profit. Just saying maybe its not as risky, as everyone claims it to be.


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## Gersh (1/8/17)

The people I noticed "bashing" cloned juice is juice makers, vendors, and all their loyal followers... not saying it's all of them and I could be very wrong... but like I said it's what I've noticed... 

Not all vapors are actively on Facebook and on vape forums. But I'm sure if this cloned juice was as deadly as everyone ASSUMES, surely it would have made some type of news or have gone viral (like the whole Andy situation). 


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## Eisenhorn (1/8/17)

The short of it is that the guys putting out the clones are ripping off a known brand and emulating it for as cheap as they can. They are not putting pride and accountability into their product, otherwise they would do their own line. There is a huge spectrum these clones can fall under, from an as good as the real thing, to some guy mixing it up in a bathtub with the cheapest industrial grade ingredients that are not designed for consumption. The thing is you just don't know and there is no accountability. 

If you don't want to pay the exorbitant prices for juice, just DIY your own. Fakes are not the answer.


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## RichJB (1/8/17)

I don't understand the motive behind buying these. If I could manufacture my own dripper for R300, I wouldn't buy clones. I'd make my own. 

In terms of juice, there are two types of vaper: those who are willing to pay commercial prices and those who aren't. If you are willing to pay the price, you wouldn't be interested in this juice. If you aren't willing to pay for commercial juice, you DIY your own. Why would I spend R100 on 30-60ml of counterfeit juice when I can make authentic Funfetti at R44 for 50ml? Why would I take a chance on the QC of some unknown Chinese entity when I can enforce my own QC by buying reputable nic, VG, PG and flavourings which come with MSDS and lab testing certificates? I can only imagine that there are thousands of vapers who believe that DIY is incredibly expensive or difficult and that you need a BSc in Chemistry or something.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## ettiennedj (1/8/17)

Saw the Fantasi and Nasty juices at a stall in Boksburg Flea Market whilst walking past. Personally not interested in buying them due to fear of death but out of interest sake asked for a price and they were going for 50 Bucks!!

That's insanity and does not compute. Being a DIY'er myself and knowing what a ml of juice costs to make. Selling a 60ml bottle for R 50 goes beyond me and even looking at the packaging which bumps up the cost even more. Not having personally compared them side to side to authentics i cannot say whether they are in fact clones or not and i think everyone just assumes this is the case?

In my mind it makes more sense for these juices to have rather fallen off a back of a truck than to be clones.


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## Mtoefy (1/8/17)

bjorncoetsee said:


> Has anyone ever tried one of these cloned juices? And how the taste compares to the original?



I bought a fantasi orange juice from this shop in canal walk paid R265 which was more or less the price they were going for. So i was under the impression it was authentic. After tasting it and checking the the bottle from the one i bought from vape fest from fantasi themself for any signs that it maybe fake but saw no difference. Tasted exactly like the original and thort its probably original now after seeing this thread of the same vendor in canal walk im baffled. 


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## RichJB (1/8/17)

It's quite possible that some vendors are selling both authentic and counterfeit juices?


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## CeeJay (1/8/17)

For me personally, cloning a juice is perfectly fine. At the end of the day it's only a RECIPE. Making crumbed chicken at home doesn't necessarily mean you're ripping KFC off. But these clones are shady with no guarantee of ingredients. 99% of us Vape as a healthier alternative why would you then risk Vaping some unknown concoction to save a buck? Might as well go buy a packet of 20.

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## Eisenhorn (1/8/17)

CeeJay said:


> For me personally, cloning a juice is perfectly fine. At the end of the day it's only a RECIPE. Making crumbed chicken at home doesn't necessarily mean you're ripping KFC off. But these clones are shady with no guarantee of ingredients. 99% of us Vape as a healthier alternative why would you then risk Vaping some unknown concoction to save a buck? Might as well go buy a packet of 20.


Agreed. Clones are good, half my DIY recipes are clones of premium juices.
Like with your KFC example, there isn't an issue with someone selling fried chicken, the issue is that someone in a flea market is selling a supposedly KFC bucket of chicken for R30 vs R200. It looks similar, it tastes close enough, but are those breadcrumbs maybe made out of sawdust and is that chicken fresh and not way past the sell by date? Probably not. 


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## aktorsyl (1/8/17)

Guys. There's a difference between clones and fakes.

Clones are clones and named/specified as such.

Fakes are cheap clones *marketed as the original.
*

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## RichJB (1/8/17)

So is a Hadaly clone a clone or a fake? It's marketed with the same name and packaging as the original and I imagine numbers of people have bought them not understanding the meaning of the word 'styled' in the product name. Would it be OK if counterfeit juices added the word 'styled' on the label? 

Of course, there is the additional factor that hardware cloners know the exact dimensions/materials/specs of the original, juice cloners don't know the specs of the original recipe. So hardware is a faithful reproduction of the original, juice is an educated guess. It's a complicated issue.

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## aktorsyl (1/8/17)

RichJB said:


> So is a Hadaly clone a clone or a fake? It's marketed with the same name and packaging as the original and I imagine numbers of people have bought them not understanding the meaning of the word 'styled' in the product name. Would it be OK if counterfeit juices added the word 'styled' on the label?
> 
> Of course, there is the additional factor that hardware cloners know the exact dimensions/materials/specs of the original, juice cloners don't know the specs of the original recipe. So hardware is a faithful reproduction of the original, juice is an educated guess. It's a complicated issue.


Sure. But it's a bit harder to hide drain cleaner in an RDA than it is in a juice.
(Extreme example, I know - but a clone/fake/copy/styled atty is very unlikely to cause harm because there are only so many unknowns that can be in there.. compared to a juice that consists entirely of unknowns & directly inhaled substances)

Would I buy a clone atty? Sure, barring the entire thing made of lead or heavy metal, it's fine.
Would I buy a clone commercial Smok coil? No, as I can't trust the coil wire or the cotton
Would I buy a fake juice? Hell no, as I can't trust *anything* in there.

This just addresses the safety issues. There are ethical issues too but as we all know, that's a meaningless argument as there's strong debate from all sides and no clear winner, ever. Even when I buy styled atties, I'm not comfortable with them using the logo's of the original manufacturers. In fact I think it would've been better to just come right out and brand it as a styled atty from the beginning. But then again, I don't feel so strongly about it that I have to spend hours defending or attacking the point. It's something, it works, it's safe, whatever. You all know me as someone who easily goes "eh, let them be" when one group (whichever group) gets upset at another 

I think we're slightly getting off-topic from the original fake juice discussion though


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## Gersh (1/8/17)

At least we all know (for a fact, without any doubt) that every single LOCAL juice maker , uses top quality ingredients and all juices are made in a "lab" or extremely clean environment of some kind hey . 


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## Gersh (1/8/17)

Gersh said:


> At least we all know (for a fact, without any doubt) that every single LOCAL juice maker , uses top quality ingredients and all juices are made in a "lab" or extremely clean environment of some kind hey .
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Oh oh and also neither any one them cuts any corners in their mass manufacturing processes


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## aktorsyl (1/8/17)

Who knows. By far the most of them are probably manufactured in clean rooms, but I will certainly agree to your point that at least "some" of them aren't.

But at least if something happens you know who to hold accountable. The maker of the juice. Hence they're also less likely to take silly risks and add diesel to their juice or whatever.
With a fake juice, who is accountable? No one. Well, the guy who mixed the fake. Good luck finding him.

Gosh this industry desperately needs regulation.


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## bjorncoetsee (1/8/17)

aktorsyl said:


> Sure. But it's a bit harder to hide drain cleaner in an RDA than it is in a juice.
> (Extreme example, I know - but a clone/fake/copy/styled atty is very unlikely to cause harm because there are only so many unknowns that can be in there.. compared to a juice that consists entirely of unknowns & directly inhaled substances)
> 
> Would I buy a clone atty? Sure, barring the entire thing made of lead or heavy metal, it's fine.
> ...


I bought a cloned chalice, put a coil in it, reads 0.8. Fired twice on my reo, fried my battery. Couldve lost a hand or worse, my face


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