# Real Scary - This will affect us...



## DarkSide (1/11/15)

Really concerning, what can we do, if anything, here is South Africa?
Warning, good ole Grimm using some strong language!

Reactions: Informative 1 | Disagree 1


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## n0ugh7_zw (1/11/15)

TBH, I share Robert Ellis view on it. Getting consumers to fight for vendor rights, is kinda hinky.

In any case, even if vaping flatly out lawed in the USA (really, really unlikely) For the rest of the world, we'll keep on trucking. Great US e-juice flavours will be cloned, and thats that. 

What the real story is, as far as I'm aware. Is that vendors over there are carrying on a bit too far... In a lot of cases, they're not even remotely willing to talk to the government about the issue of taxation. Because at the end of the day, be it the FDA or some other branch of government, its about the government protecting itself from possible lost revenue from the tobacco industry getting smaller. 

Getting people to phone the government en mass directly, is a pretty bad move. Let's face it some of us aren't made to articulate things like this to big rigid bodies such as governments. I know I'm not.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2


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## MJ INC (1/11/15)

n0ugh7_zw said:


> TBH, I share Robert Ellis view on it. Getting consumers to fight for vendor rights, is kinda hinky.
> 
> In any case, even if vaping flatly out lawed in the USA (really, really unlikely) For the rest of the world, we'll keep on trucking. Great US e-juice flavours will be cloned, and thats that.
> 
> ...


Firstly the EU is also copying these rules so we could lose all EU and US made juices. To some that's not a problem as they Vape local juices but that leads to two problems. First our government copy many laws from the EU so we could expect these laws to land here but just as bad is if the EU and US markets which are 95% of the world wide Vape market start to disappear what mod company is going to keep making mods for the small market that remains?
As for taxing if the government at any level wanted to add tax the Vape industry wouldn't have a say. You only have to look at Chicago that has already started this

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Pixstar (1/11/15)

I am confident our so called government will go the route that best fills THEIR pockets. My humble opinion.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 1


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## MJ INC (1/11/15)

Pixstar said:


> I am confident our so called government will go the route that best fills THEIR pockets. My humble opinion.


And that's what big tobacco tell them to do as they stuff money in their private overseas accounts

Reactions: Agree 2


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## n0ugh7_zw (1/11/15)

Like I said, its wildly unlikely.

Think about it, you want to sell a car, you need $3000.00 for it. You almost never post an advert for $3000.00 you, ask for $3500.00, that way the buyer can haggle with you a bit, they feel like they've won, and you've met your bottom line. So theres an element of this going on.

But theres also a heavy element of fear mongering, because guys simply do not want to be taxed or regulated, in any way. Which obviously is not a sustainable stance, is it?

Fact is, once the industry is willing to talk to the various government bodies, I'm sure something acceptable to both sides will be agreed on. This is all about money after all, and the government isn't too stupid to see that it's better to have some money (taxing vaping) than nothing (forcing rules that only allow cigalikes).

See if they do outlaw vaping, I think its gotten to the point, where guys will make moonshine juices and hardware. Once something gets to that level, you can't outlaw it. The only way to keep it under government control is to keep it legal.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## blujeenz (1/11/15)

@DarkSide so do have anything nice to unload at rockbottom prices before its all just illegal scrap metal? 

or are you not that scared yet?

Reactions: Funny 2


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## MJ INC (1/11/15)

n0ugh7_zw said:


> Like I said, its wildly unlikely.
> 
> Think about it, you want to sell a car, you need $3000.00 for it. You almost never post an advert for $3000.00 you, ask for $3500.00, that way the buyer can haggle with you a bit, they feel like they've won, and you've met your bottom line. So theres an element of this going on.
> 
> ...


I think you really need to read up on the US government and how things work. The industry for lobbyist is ridiculously large and the only way to get elected is to spend money. Big tobacco spends big while vaping has almost zero representation. I've done business with PMI and what that company spends on lawyers and lobbying is larger then the whole vaping industry is worth in the US. Big pharmacy are also spending massive sums on this because it's taking money out of the various nicotine alternatives which is also a bigger industry then vaping at the moment. These guys have been around for years, they understand every underhand barely legal way if getting their way. Unfortunately the vaping industry is still very new and very naive when it comes to politics and may well lose this battle without a much more unified front

Reactions: Agree 1


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## n0ugh7_zw (1/11/15)

They're not young and naive, they're young and disorganised.
The fact that none of them have actually put together a unified front and stuck with it is proof of this.

SAFATA or whatever its called is pretty much a joke.

So, to be clear, they're unwilling to fight for themselves, instead the consumers should fight for them? Its like a guy getting his girlfriend to fend of muggers, whilst he runs away.

Getting the public involved is 100% the wrong move.(remember some months ago about the whole F*** the FDA mentality) They should set up Trade representation in Washington, that is funded by a tax that all vape shops pay, and then that can be their platform from which they can interface with the government.

You have to deal with government, on governments terms. That means bureaucracy, and boring people in suits. The average vaper just won't cut it, and frankly nor should they.

You know what they say about helping people who won't help themselves?

Basically I think to an extent the s*** is going to have to hit the fan, before they get woken from their slumber.

The governments not stupid, to them Big Tobacco + Big Pharma + Small Vaping, is still more revenue, than just the 2 biggies. A lot of this stuff is fear mongering and posturing.

Reactions: Agree 1


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