# Mech mod not hitting as hard as Therion 75 C bf ?



## morras (4/11/17)

Elo all

So - i have a 0.23 dual build in my dead rabbit - according to steam engine this is what things look like.......

*Battery drain – what taxes your battery*
Voltage 4.20 V
Current 18.26 A
Power 76.70 W

I put it on my therion and it feels like it hit like 50 % harder that what it does on my coppervape mod.......It doesn't feel close to 70 w on the coppervape.

Any reason for this ??

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## gertvanjoe (4/11/17)

How new is the battery. 

Case of battery not performing optimally :
The regulated mod pulses the battery, thus not giving the load (coil) enough time to draw down the voltage. So it feels stronger imho. With the mech, no pulsing occurs so the voltage sags as you load the battery. Unloaded the voltage appears fine though. The chemicstry may not be exactly the same as a lead-acid which exhibits these symptoms after its end-of-life, but it is nevertheless, still a chemical battery.

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## Silver (4/11/17)

morras said:


> Elo all
> 
> So - i have a 0.23 dual build in my dead rabbit - according to steam engine this is what things look like.......
> 
> ...



It also could be the voltage drop on the mech is what is making it feel weaker

If you have a multimeter with probes you can check the volt drop under load
Measure the voltage of the battery
Then put it in the mech and put one probe on positive post of atty and other on negative, then fire the mod and while firing check the volts at the post
If it is very different, then it could be the volt drop of the mod/atty combination

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## M5000 (4/11/17)

I’m not offering pro advice but have had similar issues and things helped were not only the resistance of the build on the mech but the wire used, simple straight wire, personally Ni80 has been working great, works great on the mech but a coil with too much mass or any fancy wires at the same resistance are not that great on mechs unless it is a pro coil at very much lower resistances. 

The Coppervape bf mod, the version I have anyway, needs the 510 adjusted for certain atomizers. The adjustment needs to be made using insulators placed beneath the 510 to raise it, I think that is in the spares packet but you will find the correct info online. 

Other than that a bit of adjustment here and there to make sure the fire button is raised fully so it goes in and out firmly and comes back up fully when released can help to make sure things are sitting well in place. Eraser, clean and go. 

Hope something helps, currently running a 0.17 dual ss 24g and 0.22 i think dual ni80 24g in another bf mech and they performing great. Batteries are either VTC4 or HB2 and now 20700 in pulse bf mod.

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## stevie g (4/11/17)

Work on 3.7v, the nominal voltage of an 18650. 

They designed to work in the 3.7v range under load.

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## M5000 (4/11/17)

stevie g said:


> Work on 3.7v, the nominal voltage of an 18650.
> 
> They designed to work in the 3.7v range under load.



Is that what we should input when calculating drain, headroom etc? That would explain why guys go low with 25R’s if that’s what you mean..

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## BumbleBee (4/11/17)

The biggest culprits for excessive voltage drop are the contacts. Make sure everything is clean, clean everything that the electricity might want to flow through including the battery terminals even if it looks clean. Like @M5000 mentioned, a pencil eraser works wonders to clean contact surfaces. Also make sure to clean the surfaces between the top section and the body.

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## Alex (5/11/17)

Dielectric Grease

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## Alex (5/11/17)

Voltage drop

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## Scouse45 (5/11/17)

morras said:


> Elo all
> 
> So - i have a 0.23 dual build in my dead rabbit - according to steam engine this is what things look like.......
> 
> ...


Using ohm law on a 0.23 build on ur mech pushing 3.7V will mean u getting abour 59W. So if u firing ur therion at 70w or upwards of 4v then it’s definitely gonna hit harder then the mech as it’s simply drawing more volts then the mech is. On a mech u can only draw the full voltage of 3.7v. On a reg u can push it higher then that If u up ur wattage. U will find then that ur regulated battery will last severely shorter then the mech coz of the extra strain on the battery

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## antonherbst (5/11/17)

Thanks @Alex the two videos helped me alot with understanding how mechs work and how to combine my ohms law knowledge and everything mech.

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## GerritVisagie (5/11/17)

I found that I like running my mech around 0.15-0.12 coz then it hits nice and hard, compares to a reg at around 80-90 watts. 
Anything higher 0.2 and up, goes on a regulated. 
I run LG HB2 Batts on my Tube coz of the higher Amp draw from my builds. 
If you can, pop a 0.15 build on your mech and compare it again. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## Silver (5/11/17)

Scouse45 said:


> On a mech u can only draw the full voltage of 3.7v.



Hi @Scouse45 , my understanding is that its not that you can "only draw 3.7V" on a mech.

On my Reos, with a freshly charged battery of 4.2V, when i test the volts under load at the posts it is 4.0 V. Ie a 0.2V voltdrop.

As the battery gets flatter, the voltage gets lower. I take out the battery when it feels a bit pap. At that point the battery itself measures about 3.7 V so under load its about 3.5V

What im saying is that when the battery is fresh and if your voltdrop in your device is low, you will initially get higher than 3.7V under load.

At least that is how i have understood it and observed on my Reos. Not sure about other mech devices but should be similar

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## Scouse45 (5/11/17)

Silver said:


> Hi @Scouse45 , my understanding is that its not that you can "only draw 3.7V" on a mech.
> 
> On my Reos, with a freshly charged battery of 4.2V, when i test the volts under load at the posts it is 4.0 V. Ie a 0.2V voltdrop.
> 
> ...


Interesting @Silver thank u for that. My guess is all mechs will hav different voltage drop off and will depend. I know some guys said the coppervape had a little bit of voltage drip. So it may not draw a full 4v. So each mech will depend. But I believe a therion At 75w on 0.23 will b pulling more then 4v so will possibly hit harder. Interesting. I am goin to test my mech build on a regulated quick and c!

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## Scouse45 (5/11/17)

@Silver with my 0.23 build the regulated at 60w is pulling between 3.7 and 3.8 and at 75w pulling between 4.1 and 4.15 about 

Took photos as best I could

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## Silver (5/11/17)

You right @Scouse45 a regulated set at high power will be more powerful

All I'm saying is that a mech is not
Limited to 3.7v. It is limited to the battery voltage and the voltage drop. The volt drop depends on the mod itself and the build.

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## antonherbst (5/11/17)

All this is making me more excited about my mech mod arriving tomorrow. Thanks to all that have posted their findings and experiences here. I am learning alot more than i expected from this thread. From what i see here and have experienced myself it makes sense why i love my reo's more than regulated mods. Vaping is interesting.

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## Raindance (5/11/17)

The above had me go back to the first post to do some checking. As the coil heats up and I saw no mention of the coil material, the effective resistance of the coil rises depending on the material. If say the resistance increases from .23 to .33 ohms, your actual wattage will only come to 53 watts. Adding voltage drop under load you may be looking at almost 50w. So the regulated mod adjusts current to keep you at the desired 70w but the mech will give you whatever newtons laws provide for. Sub 50w in this case.

Regards

EDIT: Knowing what wire type you are using in key in this case.

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## Scouse45 (5/11/17)

@Silver u exactly right depends on mod and contacts! And @Raindance u also very right about mech ur coil defines the power whereas regulated ur mod keeps it at the desired wattage. Coil substance wil change thing like kanthal ups the resistance and longer ramp up. Everything contributes but with mech it’s mostot voltage drop on contacts and 510

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## Raindance (5/11/17)

Scouse45 said:


> @Silver u exactly right depends on mod and contacts! And @Raindance u also very right about mech ur coil defines the power whereas regulated ur mod keeps it at the desired wattage. Coil substance wil change thing like kanthal ups the resistance and longer ramp up. Everything contributes but with mech it’s mostot voltage drop on contacts and 510


I have a suspicion the OP is using a TC wire type such as NI200 or SS316 resulting in increased resistance under load thus lower amp draw and wattage.

Regards

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## Silver (5/11/17)

Bottom line is its generally easier to get more power on a strong regulated. Just crank up the power dial.

But

Its a slightly different vape. I find a mech more direct and pleasing for some applications.

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## Scouse45 (5/11/17)

Silver said:


> Bottom line is its gnerally easier to get more power on a strong regulated. Just crank up the power dial.
> 
> But
> 
> Its a slightly different vape. I find a mech more direct and pleasing for some applications.


I’m in full agreement with regulated u can push ur watts up but then shorter battery life. I love my mechs as u do

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## Raindance (5/11/17)

Silver said:


> Bottom line is its gnerally easier to get more power on a strong regulated. Just crank up the power dial.
> 
> But
> 
> Its a slightly different vape. I find a mech more direct and pleasing for some applications.


Even on regulated mods there are limits to what can be achieved. I can not pop a 1.2 ohm coil on my DNA75 and expect to vape at 70W, there are limits to what a single cell, even enhanced with microchip wizardry, can deliver.

@Silver, I totally get what you are saying. On mechs experimentation is required to get the build right for your personal requirements. So its trail and error until you get it right. On regulated mods this can be done by pressing buttons but its not as "clean" and natural as getting it right on a mech.

Regards

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## antonherbst (5/11/17)

Just 1 question mech owners

What is the real “thing” behind batteries that have the following spec?

20a cdr 3000mah 3,7v

&

30a cdr 1500mah 3,7v

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## Silver (6/11/17)

antonherbst said:


> Just 1 question mech owners
> 
> What is the real “thing” behind batteries that have the following spec?
> 
> ...



Hi @antonherbst , with mechs its all about safety
The "cdr" or continuous discharge rating is important
Thats how many amps can be drawn from the battery continuously without leading to problems
So its best to build a coil that draws below the cdr
And to allow some margin of safety to accommodate for inaccuracies of coil measurement.

Problem is that as seen above the capacity in mah tends to reduce as the cdr goes up. 

Best thing for mechs is to pick a battery with the highest mah that also accommodates for the coil you like vaping on. 

In my case, i just built a 0.3 ohm dual in my OL16 on the Reo. And am enjoying the vigour of the vape. At 0.3 ohms, the amp draw (at 4V) is about 13A. So in my case your first battery would be better because it copes with a cdr of 20A and has the higher mah which means it should last longer

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## Friep (6/11/17)

antonherbst said:


> Just 1 question mech owners
> 
> What is the real “thing” behind batteries that have the following spec?
> 
> ...



One thing that I would also add is don't trust the manufacturer's ratings. Check mooch's charts for optimal safety.

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## M5000 (9/11/17)

Keep some “headroom” and take into account the age of the battery which could reduce the performance, so I’ve been told.

With the resistance change, I assume you are using SS316 wire.. Ni200 is a strictly TC wire and not meant for power mode so cannot be used on mech mods.. as for the SS wire builds, remember to work with the resistance at the lowest when the wire is cool so you know it won’t be getting lower.. SS ramps pretty quick but you may notice the resistance change effect on the vape as the power will change..

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