# DIY n00b questions



## PsyCLown (21/12/16)

Hey guys,

So I am still relatively new to the DIY juice mixing - haven't mixed all that much and am still just following recipes for now.
Although I am curious about how you all go about these things and hopefully you can share some of your knowledge with me.

1. How do you measure all your concentrates, VG, PG etc?
I use the eJuice Me Up app, I personally feel as if drops is rather inaccurate as drops can be big or small and depend on quite a few factors.
Scales as well, especially these cheaper scales - I have had a fair bit of experience and they are anything but accurate.

I have been using needles and syringes and it works but can be quite a PITA as I have to open each concentrate bottle, remove the dripper and then suck up the right amount with a syringe. Now if I am mixing say 30ml of juice then certain ingredients come in at 0.14ml and if you are using anything other than an Insulin Syringe it isn't all that accurate then and when using an insulin syringe it takes forever due to the gauage of the needle (generally 31 to 29).
For the VG and PG I use a normal syringe with a 15G needle, still takes a bit of time when it comes to the VG though and you end up with sore hands if you are mixing quite a bit.

So any tips / secrets which you can share with me?
I think I sturggle with the idea of being a bit off with my percentages as I am not sure how much a small % difference will make to the overall flavour of the juice hence why I am trying to be really accurate.


2. There have been a few recipes posted on various threads, such as the DIY Fruit Juice Recipe thread, the Mango Crack recipe. I tried it and I find the flavour a bit mild and would like to make it stronger. What is the best way to go about this? Just increase all of the concentrate percentages a bit or would that not work?

I posted this in another thread but taking a look at the DIY juice sub-forum, I think it might be best I create my own thread here.

Thanks guys!


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## Tockit (21/12/16)

A scale is going to be the easiest and make this journey more enjoyable. I started out with syringes aswell until i had so cash for a scale. Now its just open top and drop in liquids. check vendors like blckvapour and Valley Vapour that sells scales. These are sufficient for juice mixing and if they are out by a micro nano millimeter, LOL it will not cause an adverse effect on the Juice. 

Also always keep in mind that taste is subjective, so even if you do find a great recipe you might find its not to your liking. What you can do is then go to vendors websites where you bought your cencentrates from or try the manufacturers website to find out what the recommended percentages are for the flavours. then tweak the recipe from there and increase in small increments untill you get to your desired Mix.


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## Andre (21/12/16)

I use this scale from Valley Vapour, which works perfectly for me. I think BlckVapour has the same one for less. Mixing directly into my final bottles. For PG and VG I use the Valley Vapour 500 ml bottles with these spouts. Nicotine I decant into a 50 ml glass beaker and pour from there into the bottle on the scale.

Yes, if you want to make the flavour stronger increase all the ingredients by the same percentage. Do not go overboard as too much will kill the juice.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Gersh (21/12/16)

I've seen some pocket scales ranging in price from +/- R100-R200. Will these work as good as the more expensive ones out there ? 


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## Andre (21/12/16)

Gersh said:


> I've seen some pocket scales ranging in price from +/- R100-R200. Will these work as good as the more expensive ones out there ?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You need at least 2 decimals.


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## RichJB (21/12/16)

Gersh said:


> I've seen some pocket scales ranging in price from +/- R100-R200. Will these work as good as the more expensive ones out there ?



Probably not as accurate but a lot of people who use them are happy with the results of their DIY juice. The most common type of scale in this price range is the cheaper one sold by Blck and by The Flavour Mill, among others. This is the type I use. At that price, they are not going to have the best manufacturer quality control in place and I think it's pot luck whether you get a good one or a bad one. I bought one at my local China mall and it was unacceptable. It would not display any weight below 0.3g which is no good for DIY. Unless you make giant batches, you will add flavours at less than 0.3g. Then I bought a similar model from The Flavour Mill and have been much happier with that. It displays weights down to 0.03g and seems to be quite consistent.

My only potential concern with these scales is the one word that you will rarely hear DIYers use: calibration. Even if scales are accurate as delivered from the factory, they will drift over time. So they need to be recalibrated periodically. That requires having weights of exactly 100g and 200g. Unlike with the more expensive Valley scale, these weights are not supplied with the cheaper scales. So you either accept your scale becoming inaccurate over time or you have to buy proper calibration weights, an expense which the DIYer didn't reckon on initially.

You can wing it, using a set number of coins instead of calibration weights. Coins have a known mass and are manufactured to very precise tolerances. So it should be very nearly as accurate as a calibration weight. But it's still a PITA. Anyway, you pays yer money and you takes yer chances.

Reactions: Like 5 | Winner 1


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## Tockit (21/12/16)

I too was not aware that you needed to calibrate your scale at first, max weight on mine is 200g. i didnt have a weight but i had a 200g Danone yoghurt in the fridge and it worked just fine LOL. I agree its not accurate but it works. I got the exact same scale as in this pic of @incredible_hullk for R199 at a soundtech store at my local mall. i will get a proper calibration weight when Valley Vapour opens in the new year to recalibrate the scale.


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## incredible_hullk (21/12/16)

Tockit said:


> I too was not aware that you needed to calibrate your scale at first, max weight on mine is 200g. i didnt have a weight but i had a 200g Danone yoghurt in the fridge and it worked just fine LOL. I agree its not accurate but it works. I got the exact same scale as in this pic of @incredible_hullk for R199 at a soundtech store at my local mall. i will get a proper calibration weight when Valley Vapour opens in the new year to recalibrate the scale.
> 
> View attachment 79188


thx @Tockit didnt know u had to calibrate


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## Gersh (21/12/16)

RichJB said:


> Probably not as accurate but a lot of people who use them are happy with the results of their DIY juice. The most common type of scale in this price range is the cheaper one sold by Blck and by The Flavour Mill, among others. This is the type I use. At that price, they are not going to have the best manufacturer quality control in place and I think it's pot luck whether you get a good one or a bad one. I bought one at my local China mall and it was unacceptable. It would not display any weight below 0.3g which is no good for DIY. Unless you make giant batches, you will add flavours at less than 0.3g. Then I bought a similar model from The Flavour Mill and have been much happier with that. It displays weights down to 0.03g and seems to be quite consistent.
> 
> My only potential concern with these scales is the one word that you will rarely hear DIYers use: calibration. Even if scales are accurate as delivered from the factory, they will drift over time. So they need to be recalibrated periodically. That requires having weights of exactly 100g and 200g. Unlike with the more expensive Valley scale, these weights are not supplied with the cheaper scales. So you either accept your scale becoming inaccurate over time or you have to buy proper calibration weights, an expense which the DIYer didn't reckon on initially.
> 
> You can wing it, using a set number of coins instead of calibration weights. Coins have a known mass and are manufactured to very precise tolerances. So it should be very nearly as accurate as a calibration weight. But it's still a PITA. Anyway, you pays yer money and you takes yer chances.



lol I mistakenly praised your comment on another thread instead of this one, which it was actually meant for .. but they both are great anyway.

Reactions: Thanks 1


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## PsyCLown (21/12/16)

So most seem to use scales. I have a small pocket scale or two actually and having used them for supplements and such is how I know they can be quite inaccurate at times.

Trying to fit the right amount into a capsule for example, you are adding more and more powder and nothing then suddenly a big jump to a certain number or a specific item weight one amount when you first start then weighing a different amount at the end.

It is actually recommended to turn on a scale and allow it to "warm up" for a bit, then calibrate it each time before use for the best results as moving it and packing it away can affect how accurate it is. I did a bit of research into it and paying for an actual proper scale which is highly accurate you are looking at over R2k which is crazy for DIY and general home use.

How accurate do your mixes need to be though I guess?

Well interesting and good to know. I can imagine it sure it easier using a scale.


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## RichJB (21/12/16)

@PsyCLown, I usually judge by pouring the first drop in. If the scale moves from 0.00g to 0.03 or 0.04g, then I figure it's accurate enough. If it doesn't move from 0.00g for the first and then the second drop... uh-oh. That's what my China mall scale did. Drop-drop-drop-drop... nothing. And then, after continued dropping, it would suddenly jump to 0.3g. That is a red flag so I keep that scale for kitchen use now. My new scale reacts immediately and (seemingly) accurately to the first drop.

Reactions: Like 1


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## PsyCLown (21/12/16)

RichJB said:


> @PsyCLown, I usually judge by pouring the first drop in. If the scale moves from 0.00g to 0.03 or 0.04g, then I figure it's accurate enough. If it doesn't move from 0.00g for the first and then the second drop... uh-oh. That's what my China mall scale did. Drop-drop-drop-drop... nothing. And then, after continued dropping, it would suddenly jump to 0.3g. That is a red flag so I keep that scale for kitchen use now. My new scale reacts immediately and (seemingly) accurately to the first drop.


Alright, interesting. Do you have the larger scale which blck vapour sell or the small pocket scale? 

That larger one does look nice and useful. 

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## RichJB (21/12/16)

I have the little one, the R140 model. If I was to upgrade, it would be to this one.


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## Mogwai79 (3/1/17)

I'm looking at starting with a little DIY for personal use. I ordered this scale yesterday. Any thoughts on it.


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## Andre (3/1/17)

Mogwai79 said:


> View attachment 80496
> 
> I'm looking at starting with a little DIY for personal use. I ordered this scale yesterday. Any thoughts on it.


As long as it has a Tare function and not too quick of an Auto-Off it should work.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mogwai79 (23/1/17)

Good day. I have started DYI'ing about 3 weeks back. So far so good. However i just want to ask a stupid question. All the concentrates and flavors are all or mostly, clear liquids that some times changes color over time. However I just want to know if you get anything that will color your juice. Like into a blue color or red etc. (The clear juices) Was just wondering?


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## RichJB (23/1/17)

Why do you want colourful juice? It will add nothing to the flavour and will probably:
1) Gunk your coils
2) Not be very healthy for you

If I could get colourless juices with every mix, I'd take it with both hands.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


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## Mogwai79 (23/1/17)

Was just wondering if you get something that will color it. Not going to color MY DIY juice.


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## RichJB (23/1/17)

I suppose commercial kitchen food colourings would work as effectively in juice as they do in foodstuffs. But I don't know anybody who uses it or would recommend it.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Huffapuff (23/1/17)

Food colourings use PG, but as to what else I'm not sure. Better to just not.

Reactions: Like 1


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## KZOR (23/1/17)

Mogwai79 said:


> I ordered this scale yesterday.



I use the exact one and very happy with it.


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## johan (23/1/17)

Mogwai79 said:


> Was just wondering if you get something that will color it. Not going to color MY DIY juice.



I color my "clear" menthol vape with ordinary green food coloring every year on St Patrick's day - you only need a few drops and in a menthol e-juice you won't notice any other "off" flavor. PS; haven't tried it with other "softer" flavored e-juice.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kalashnikov (23/1/17)

Mogwai79 said:


> View attachment 80496
> 
> I'm looking at starting with a little DIY for personal use. I ordered this scale yesterday. Any thoughts on it.


i use it. works perfectly just what ever you do dont mess with the calibration settings other wise you will need a weight to calibrate it again

Reactions: Like 1


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## zandernwn (3/3/17)

Please do not colour your juices, it is not safe.

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## johan (3/3/17)

zandernwn said:


> Please do not colour your juices, it is not safe.
> 
> Sent from my HUAWEI CRR-L09 using Tapatalk



Done it since 2014/15 once a year and I'm still alive and very well to post this

Reactions: Funny 2


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## zandernwn (6/3/17)

I was a smokers and had been smoking since 2005, and I too am still alive to tell the tale 
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Reactions: Winner 1


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## johan (6/3/17)

zandernwn said:


> I was a smokers and had been smoking since 2005, and I too am still alive to tell the tale
> Sent from my HUAWEI CRR-L09 using Tapatalk



I am so happy for you .


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## Piratical Cookie (17/3/17)

A quick question - Hope this is the right place

Alot of recipes refer to drops. Now from what I understand a drop is a unit of measure, like cm/mm, g/mg etc.

So that would lead me to believe that regardless of the SG of the liquid being measured - water at 1.0 and VG at 1.261 for example - the drop size or volume of the drop would be the same. 

An Analogy would be so

20Ltr of water = 20Kg 
20Ltr of Paint = 24Kg

Although the SG is clearly different, the volume is the same.

The accepted measurement of drops (from what I've been able to ascertain) is 20drops = 1ml, more or less.

My question is where a formula/recipe says 10 drops, would I not then be able to say that 10drops is = to 0.5ml, regardless of drop viscosity?

Trying to figure it out mainly because on occasion I add a couple of drops to a mix from the bottle to get the right taste but don't have a scale yet, and want to recreate the recipe without having to make a batch and then add drops from the bottle.

Any thoughts or ideas - Apart from buying a scale just yet. (Want to get better mod first lol)

Thank you kindly


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## RichJB (17/3/17)

Unfortunately, drop size is determined partly by the dropper nozzle, partly by the liquid. It is the least precise of all the measurements available. What recipe do you have that only works with drops? The recipe creator should at least provide an equivalent ml or % amount for each ingredient.


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## Piratical Cookie (17/3/17)

It's my own ones

I'll make something and if I'm not happy add a few drops till it gets to an approximation of what I'm looking for. I'm being lazy, I could measure out a ml and then drop the same amount but looking for a shortcut. 

Will have to buy a scale - long run it'll def be a better option. 

Thanks bud, was hoping it was a standard type thing but will have to suck it up and keep on playing.
Again - Thanks


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## Silver (18/3/17)

Hi @Piratical Cookie 
I think the rule of thumb is 20 drops equals 1ml but the dropper does make a big difference

If you use the same dropper nozzle it should be fairly consistent though

I have been adding mentholto my juices for quite a long time and i also use drops
But i use the same dropper so its quite consistent


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## Huffapuff (18/3/17)

Piratical Cookie said:


> A quick question - Hope this is the right place
> 
> Alot of recipes refer to drops. Now from what I understand a drop is a unit of measure, like cm/mm, g/mg etc.
> 
> ...


In my experience there are more like 30 to 35 drops per ml. Maybe PG has a different viscosity or something. 

I used to use the drop method before I got a scale, so for a while I counted drops and compared it to the scale's measurements. It mostly came within 30 to 35 drops. But varied quite a bit depending on the nozzles.

Reactions: Thanks 1


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## Vino1718 (19/3/17)

Someone mentioned that sometimes the scale does not pick up small drops. What I usually do to determine the weight of one drop is to pour 5 consecutive drops which equals 0.10g thus 1 drop = 0.02g. So to get 0.20g would require 10 drops, etc. This is my experience with only using the dropper bottles from blckvapour. One also need to make sure that the surface where the scale is on is solid and stable and surface does not bend/wobble when resting your hands/elbows on table. I noticed that the scale measures jumps up and down when I pickup a 500ml vg bottle or move something (I have those cheap in-mekaar-slaan-tafel from Game) :/.


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## Piratical Cookie (23/3/17)

Hi Guys 

A quick question

If I mix my Nic in with the flavour concentrates and let that steep for the required time, would that mean that I then just mix my flavours+nic into whichever carrier I'm using and the need for steeping falls away?

Anyone tried this? Does the full flavour react with the VG/PG as well as the nic in order to get the "matured" product or would steeping the NIc in the Flavour concentrates do the job. I've had a look but can't seem to find anywhere this has been discussed. 

Thanks in advance

As always, greatly appreciated


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## Huffapuff (23/3/17)

Piratical Cookie said:


> Hi Guys
> 
> A quick question
> 
> ...



Steeping would still be required. 

Concentrates need to steep so that the different molecules can bind together within the PG and VG. Nicotine is essentially just another concentrate carried either in PG or VG. If anything nicotine could be added last in the process. 

There is no short cut in steeping. Making pre-blends and later adding your bases and nicotine can make a marginal difference, although there is only anecdotal evidence to this effect so far. 

Patience is the primary requirement of DIYing. Waiting for a juice to mature is part of the enjoyment.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Piratical Cookie (23/3/17)

Thanks huff, thought as much but wanted some input from the pros. 

Much obliged 

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## Andre (23/3/17)

Piratical Cookie said:


> Hi Guys
> 
> A quick question
> 
> ...


I do pre-blends of the concentrates of ADV juices. Primarily because it is then much faster to quickly mix up a final juice (adding PG,VG and Nic to the set percentage of a pre-blend). And yes, steeping is cut by about 20 % in this way. Once my pre-blends are steeped, I mix, shake and then just let it stand for 24 hours before it is ready to be vaped.

Reactions: Informative 1


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