# Vaping a gateway to smoking tobacco?



## Raindance (10/12/17)

Every now and then, even after all the evidence to the contrary, claims are raised that vaping is a gateway and introduction to the smoking of cigarettes and related tobacco products.

How on earth does one come to that conclusion? According to this logic, the use of a vacuum cleaner leads to the desire to use a broom, the use of private transport to the desire to use public transport and the eating of ice cram leads to a lust for broccoli. 
At least that is my perspective.

Does anybody on this forum know of any person that progressed from vaping to smoking? If so, please let us know.

Regards

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## Shatter (10/12/17)

I agree 100%, if anything smoking was a gateway to vaping for me

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## Hooked (10/12/17)

Raindance said:


> Every now and then, even after all the evidence to the contrary, claims are raised that vaping is a gateway and introduction to the smoking of cigarettes and related tobacco products.
> 
> How on earth does one come to that conclusion? According to this logic, the use of a vacuum cleaner leads to the desire to use a broom, the use of private transport to the desire to use public transport and the eating of ice cram leads to a lust for broccoli.
> At least that is my perspective.
> ...



@Raindance I gave up smoking about 3 years ago and switched to Nicorette (nicotine chewing gum). INicorette is supposed to be a temporary aid, but for me it ended up being a permanent aid, with me chewing the cud for 3 years. About 3 months ago I switched to vaping, but now I'm back to the inhale-exhale routine. And now, for the first time since stopping smoking, I am sometimes tempted to have a "real" cigarette". Of course I won't - but nevertheless the temptation is there.

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## bjorncoetsee (10/12/17)

Raindance said:


> Every now and then, even after all the evidence to the contrary, claims are raised that vaping is a gateway and introduction to the smoking of cigarettes and related tobacco products.
> 
> How on earth does one come to that conclusion? According to this logic, the use of a vacuum cleaner leads to the desire to use a broom, the use of private transport to the desire to use public transport and the eating of ice cram leads to a lust for broccoli.
> At least that is my perspective.
> ...


I was a non smoker. I smoked hubbly alot. So i switched to vaping few years back, started on 18mg mtl, and went down to 3mg direct lung. My fitness has really gone down. And every now and then when my vape isn't with me, i will smoke a cigarette or rollie. So for me vaping got me of the hubbly, but has decreased my fitness levels and got my started craving cigarette sometimes.

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## bjorncoetsee (10/12/17)

I was on about 30ml juice a day, and recently switched back to mtl on 12mg.now im on about 5ml a day. And at night I'll still drip for fun

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## Hooked (10/12/17)

bjorncoetsee said:


> I was a non smoker. I smoked hubbly alot. So i switched to vaping few years back, started on 18mg mtl, and went down to 3mg direct lung. My fitness has really gone down. And every now and then when my vape isn't with me, i will smoke a cigarette or rollie. So for me vaping got me of the hubbly, but has decreased my fitness levels and got my started craving cigarette sometimes.



@bjorncoetsee In what way has your "fitness gone down"?

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## TheV (10/12/17)

Raindance said:


> Every now and then, even after all the evidence to the contrary, claims are raised that vaping is a gateway and introduction to the smoking of cigarettes and related tobacco products.
> 
> How on earth does one come to that conclusion? According to this logic, the use of a vacuum cleaner leads to the desire to use a broom, the use of private transport to the desire to use public transport and the eating of ice cram leads to a lust for broccoli.
> At least that is my perspective.
> ...


A colleague of mine has gone from vaping 0mg to full on smoking. Sad, but it does happen. I think it's an absolutely minority though. 
I definitely see a danger in the nic addiction. Any non-smoker that starts vaping juices with nicotine certainly runs the risk of getting hooked.

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## Silver (10/12/17)

Hi @Raindance 

I hear you

I dont know anyone that has gone from not smoking to vaping to smoking but I do not doubt that occasionally that might happen. I now know @bjorncoetsee has had the odd smoke since starting vaping. Some folk might just want to try a smoke after trying vaping. 

I do however think the vast majority of vapers are ex smokers and are unlikely to smoke again. I know PLENTY of those.

So i think its about numbers. I dont know the stats but Id say from my observation that there are WAY more people that have used vaping to STOP smoking than as a gateway TO smoking. 

Imagine for every 1,000 people that stop smoking ten people start. Well thats still 990 less smokers. So should vaping then be frowned upon because of those 10 people? I dont know the actual stats. If it was the other way around then i agree, vaping is bad - but i highly doubt it.

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## BubiSparks (10/12/17)

I find some of these stories quite bewildering ... They must be so far from the norm I can hardly believe it. I have absolutely no craving for real tobacco whatsoever.... I vape a lot, but a mate of mine that I converted was a heavy smoker and he doesn't even vape full time anymore. I think these are very rare exceptions to what the vast majority of vapers have experienced.

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## BumbleBee (10/12/17)

I think vaping could be a stepping stone for those who would be inclined to start smoking for whatever reason, but calling it a gateway is just ridiculous. I also believe that a majority of non smokers who started vaping would probably have started smoking if vaping wasn't an option.

Whichever way you want to look at it, vaping is certainly one of the least harmful habits out there right now.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 7


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## Raindance (10/12/17)

Well, not the reaction I was expecting. Which may be a good thing for it is better to know the truth than to live in deluded ignorance. But yeah, this caught me on the back foot.

My own experience like @Shatter mentioned is that as a long term smoker, vaping made me turn away from tobacco and I hope like many others like us find the thought of smoking tobacco revolting. This goes for hubbly as well.

@Hooked, very interesting to note that the action of inhaling vapor brought back the desire to have a cigarette. Understandable considering the similarity in action and something which may be the reason many converts occasionally do stray. I used to in any case.
But therein lies the root of my struggle in understanding the move from vaping to smoking. On the odd occasions I did stray, the experience was not pleasant nor the same as I remembered it to be. It is these experiences that in fact cured me for good. I know there is nothing pleasant there for me so those desires no longer exist. 

@bjorncoetsee, I know little about hubbly smoking and in my ignorance on the topic believe it to be very similar to conventional smoking in terms of the chemicals being inhaled. I therefore do not consider the conversion from hubbly to vaping a move in the wrong direction. I would welcome being corrected if my perceptions are incorrect.

@TheV and @Silver, I guess one needs to accept the facts that it does happen. And as is the norm a single failure will receive much more publicity that a million victories. I now wonder if this is really a case of a a million to one or are the doomsday profits more correct than we wish to believe?

Regards

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## Room Fogger (10/12/17)

Vaping was my way to fully stop smoking, from between 40 and 60 a day to nothing. Have only had the urge to have a cigarette once or twice in the first month, missing my cigars on the odd occasion though. I am now happy to be between people that actually smoke without wanting to join, it just stinks though. Also hate having to find a smoking area when I want to vape.

Plusses for me so far:

no more donating a lung in the mornings through coughing, 
better sinus wise, no more 3 pills a day, only on the odd occasion, 
no more resting on every landing while climbing stairs,
Not being out of breath when just talking to people, 
getting the urge to start cycling again, have however been able to suppress this through mixing and diy.
Starting smoking again, I don't think so, but will be happy to still be vaping on the porch of the old age home one day, may have to get one of the pipes for the Oom Schalk look though.
I have so far assisted in converting 4 to stop smoking, three are vaping, one is totally of everything, yet his vape still goes with when going out, for incase. New project is another one busy testing to see if he wants to go this route.

Can it lead to someone to start smoking? That would be dependent on the individul imo, everyone makes good and bad decisions and some we regret later in life. I however think that a lot of youngsters may use it to try and look cool, but if they belonged to me I would rather have them vaping a 0nic than smoking skelm or going the hubbly route. You are NOT going to stop them experimenting, so safer option is to educate and assist where possible, otherwise they are going to do it behind your back. I should know, that was me! Will I still try to get them to not do it, most definitely.

Have I met a smoker who used to vape, not yet. Have I met a lot of vapers that used to smoke, most definitely. My R2 worth, 2c would only have covered the first paragraph.

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## Spyro (10/12/17)

I think vaping is a gateway to nicotine addiction and as a non smoker your will power will decide if the taste of smoke is worth the cigarette. 

As a smoker who stopped, all of my friends who vape have no issue smoking a cigarette if out of battery or juice for or whatever reason they can't vape. My one friend would rather smoke than use my mech mod. He's really afraid of them and he studied mechatronics. I won't smoke a cigarette even if I don't have my vape because I can no longer deal with the taste and smell. Get some alcohol in me and I will also cave if I don't have my vape with me.

On that note I will not let a non smoker or non vaper touch my device. There are documented cases of heroin addicts stating on record that nicotine was harder to give up than heroin. I can't really agree or not, I've never tried it. But surely that's sort of evidence enough that there most definitely is the potential for a nicotine vaping never smoker to switch to stinkies if the nicotine is gone.

On a side note, I know a lot of store OWNERS who let their underage children vape. "As long as they do it at home and don't use nicotine, then they won't be doing dagga and cigarettes with their friends" dafuq. I feel this is extremely wrong. But would it be the same as getting a half glass of wine at the Christmas's table at 16?

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## bjorncoetsee (10/12/17)

Im h


Hooked said:


> @bjorncoetsee In what way has your "fitness gone down"?


Im heavy into fitness. Crossfit, mma, callisthenics, weight training. Where i realized it most, is from lasting 5x 5 mins rounds in mma, to barely lasting 1 round. Feels like i cant breath and get dizzy then i get paranoid.

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## Room Fogger (10/12/17)

Spyro said:


> I think vaping is a gateway to nicotine addiction and as a non smoker your will power will decide if the taste of smoke is worth the cigarette.
> 
> As a smoker who stopped, all of my friends who vape have no issue smoking a cigarette if out of battery or juice for or whatever reason they can't vape. My one friend would rather smoke than use my mech mod. He's really afraid of them and he studied mechatronics. I won't smoke a cigarette even if I don't have my vape because I can no longer deal with the taste and smell. Get some alcohol in me and I will also cave if I don't have my vape with me.
> 
> ...


My dad exposed us to a lot of things growing up, that was why I could not understand why people drank until they fell over as it was nothing new to me after school, but always in moderation. We got a tot of wine with meals ever so often, I think sometimes he bulled us with grape juice as well, and sherry or port in winter to warm up or calm a cough. Did the same with mine.

We tend to copy the behavior of others, good and bad, depending on the image we have of the activity. I also do believe that youngsters sometimes try things because it is the unknown, and this is the problem. Once you take the mystery out, it is not the draw card it used to be. The only thing my dad was adamant about was that we should NOT SMOKE, something I failed at miserably. He was on the pipe since age 11 until he passed away at 73, Boxer tobacco, and yes the big C was the main culprit. I have gone from 9 to 2-3nic wise while vaping in the last 5 months, but I do not know if I will ever go to 0 Nic, only time will tell.

In the end we have to make our own decisions and live with the consequences, so choose wisely, and don't be afraid to own up if you made the wrong one, and it is also never too late to change for the better. I honestly believe that if the youngsters that walk around vaping did not have that, they would be smoking. The lesser of 2 evils? If they get addicted to nic, is it better to get it in by hookah, vaping or smoking? In the end only they can decide, and it is up to us as the parents and older generation to assist and educate, while remembering our own decisions and failures through the years, and the why we did what we did.

I have 2 big guys, 17 and 20, neither smoke, and 1 does not like alcohol, with him being a student he is now the go to designated driver for the outings that most parents never know about. In both cases their own personal decision with me assisting and guiding to the best of my ability, and hopefully by the example I try to set. The younger one enjoys a tot or ....... of sherry (visvang wyn) when at the water, but always only after asking and getting permission. And always in moderation. No mystery, no draw card?

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## Hooked (10/12/17)

bjorncoetsee said:


> Im h
> 
> Im heavy into fitness. Crossfit, mma, callisthenics, weight training. Where i realized it most, is from lasting 5x 5 mins rounds in mma, to barely lasting 1 round. Feels like i cant breath and get dizzy then i get paranoid.



@bjorncoetsee It's strange - I've read a number of comments that fitness - especially breathing - improves vastly after starting to vape. I wonder if you're not allergic to PG? I believe it happens to some people.

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## Hooked (10/12/17)

Room Fogger said:


> Vaping was my way to fully stop smoking, from between 40 and 60 a day to nothing. Have only had the urge to have a cigarette once or twice in the first month, missing my cigars on the odd occasion though. I am now happy to be between people that actually smoke without wanting to join, it just stinks though. Also hate having to find a smoking area when I want to vape.
> 
> Plusses for me so far:
> 
> ...



@Room Fogger I know one person who was a smoker, switched to vaping, then went back to smoking. I understand why, though. He's the owner of a supermarket and he's extremely busy from 5.30 a.m. to 9p.m. daily. Vaping isn't a quick puff and carry on working as one can do with a cig. That's why I often use Vinto e-cigs when I'm very busy.

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## Hooked (10/12/17)

Spyro said:


> I think vaping is a gateway to nicotine addiction and as a non smoker your will power will decide if the taste of smoke is worth the cigarette.
> 
> On a side note, I know a lot of store OWNERS who let their underage children vape. "As long as they do it at home and don't use nicotine, then they won't be doing dagga and cigarettes with their friends" dafuq. I feel this is extremely wrong. But would it be the same as getting a half glass of wine at the Christmas's table at 16?



@Spyro I say let them be. Many peeps, especially CT with its wine regions, allow their teenagers to have a glass of wine with ameal.

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## Feliks Karp (10/12/17)

bjorncoetsee said:


> Im h
> 
> Im heavy into fitness. Crossfit, mma, callisthenics, weight training. Where i realized it most, is from lasting 5x 5 mins rounds in mma, to barely lasting 1 round. Feels like i cant breath and get dizzy then i get paranoid.



I'd go see a cardiologist if I was you.

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## Hooked (10/12/17)

TheV said:


> A colleague of mine has gone from vaping 0mg to full on smoking. Sad, but it does happen. I think it's an absolutely minority though.
> I definitely see a danger in the nic addiction. Any non-smoker that starts vaping juices with nicotine certainly runs the risk of getting hooked.



@TheV How does your comment about nic addiction tie in with your colleague who vaped zero nic? Was he a smoker before he started vaping?

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## Hooked (10/12/17)

@Room Fogger 
This is an interesting thread!
I think it's not that vaping IS a gateway to smoking tobacco, but it COULD BE a gateway - but only if a non-smoker starts vaping juice with nicotine. Nicotine addiction is easy to attain and difficult to refrain. Why would such a person then switch from vaping, with perhaps a higher nic strength, to smoking? Smoking is cheaper and much more convenient. No need to refill (the bane of my life!!) or change coils; no need to cart a device and juice around when you're out and about. 

*For me, if a non-smoker wants to vape, the most important thing is that they use zero nic and NEVER try any juice with nic!*

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## Feliks Karp (10/12/17)

Hooked said:


> *For me, if a non-smoker wants to vape, the most important thing is that they use zero nic and NEVER try any juice with nic!*



Nicotine is probably the least harmful substance in e-juice.

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## Room Fogger (10/12/17)

Hooked said:


> @Room Fogger
> This is an interesting thread!
> I think it's not that vaping IS a gateway to smoking tobacco, but it COULD BE a gateway - but only if a non-smoker starts vaping juice with nicotine. Nicotine addiction is easy to attain and difficult to refrain. Why would such a person then switch from vaping, with perhaps a higher nic strength, to smoking? Smoking is cheaper and much more convenient. No need to refill (the bane of my life!!) or change coils; no need to cart a device and juice around when you're out and about.
> 
> *For me, if a non-smoker wants to vape, the most important thing is that they use zero nic and NEVER try any juice with nic!*


@Hooked , I agree wholeheartedly, it could be, and so could trying a smoke, or a hubbly. I am less worried about the nicotine than the other stuff you get in while smoking, but agree that it may be less hassle to smoke than to cart your vape and juice around. I enjoy it, and the refills and rewick is a high point in my day that I look forward to. My advice will still be to refrain from either to a non smoker, but to choose the least harmful one if you have to.

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## Raindance (10/12/17)

Room Fogger said:


> @Hooked , I agree wholeheartedly, it could be, and so could trying a smoke, or a hubbly. I am less worried about the nicotine than the other stuff you get in while smoking, but agree that it may be less hassle to smoke than to cart your vape and juice around. I enjoy it, and the refills and rewick is a high point in my day that I look forward to. My advice will still be to refrain from either to a non smoker, but to choose the least harmful one if you have to.



The last number of years of me smoking I was doing rollies so carrying stuff around was nothing new to me. 

Last week I got my first squonk mod and atty and believe this may be the solution to replicating the cigarette time frame issue. Two or three squonks worth of vaping in about five to ten minutes does deliver a rather hefty dose of nic which is nice if one needs to comply to smoke breaks vaping only. Hard to admit for a hardened RTA fan like myself but flavor wise dripping and squonking may possibly be the ultimate choice.

The premise that non smokers starting to vape nic juice and then when in a pinch turn to smoking is intriguing.

Regards

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## TheV (10/12/17)

Hooked said:


> @TheV How does your comment about nic addiction tie in with your colleague who vaped zero nic? Was he a smoker before he started vaping?


@Hooked, those 2 statements were not directly connected. 

On the one hand I have a colleague that started smoking after he started vaping 0mg.

Just a general statement that there is a danger on nicotine addiction for non-smokers that do start to vape nicotine juices. (<- this happened to one of my friends)


I'm not trying to be negative. I think vaping has done much more good than bad. I'm just not ignorant to the dangers.

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## Hooked (10/12/17)

Feliks Karp said:


> Nicotine is probably the least harmful substance in e-juice.



@Feliks Karp I agree - but if a non-smoker takes up vaping, they shouldn't vape with nic. While nicotine is, as you say, the least harmful substance IN E-JUICE, it does have negative effects on the body.


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## vicTor (10/12/17)

from vaping to stinking like an ashtray ?

...doesn't compute

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## bjorncoetsee (10/12/17)

Hooked said:


> @bjorncoetsee It's strange - I've read a number of comments that fitness - especially breathing - improves vastly after starting to vape. I wonder if you're not allergic to PG? I believe it happens to some people.


It increases for a smoker yes obviously. But for a non smoker, nothing u inhale is going to increase ur fitness


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## Hooked (10/12/17)

bjorncoetsee said:


> It increases for a smoker yes obviously. But for a non smoker, nothing u inhale is going to increase ur fitness



@bjorncoetsee Interesting - and something that non-smokers should bear in mind before they vape "just for fun"!


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