# First build/rig with advanced capabilities



## TheLongTwitch (25/12/14)

Howsit guys

I deemed it necessary to seek veteran advice, as I KNOW I will outgrow a starter pack or kit within days!
...and money isn't abundant at this current stage, so I am slightly limited on what and for how much 
Unless anyone needs sound/audio gear? http://www.ecigssa.co.za/threads/presonus-studiofire-acoustic-gtr-20ch-snake.7713/ 


***To be Noted***
I am 'Analytical-Brained' (Long to explain, rather look it up) 
I am very educated in electronics, electricity and their workings (as all sound gear works with afformentioned).
Besides the fact that I am the "Fix-It" guy to almost every person I know! 
...So I NEED something more advanced than standard and can easily take on the challenge.

P.S. As Arthster has already experienced: I tend to reply via essay 

On to the relevant stuff:
I want to skip the first steps indeed, but pro status is earned and not particularly a starting point 
And I happily welcome any/all criticism and advice!

I am a quick learner and most definitely attuned to technology and mechanics,
but having only stumbled upon the depth and awesomeness of vaping 3 days ago...
So any preference is based SOLEY on research, reviews and playing with the numbers and science in my head 
Thusly; I actually have no clue if I will be satisfied with the Magneto or starting type kits etc.

What I know is:
I need VV definitely for control of throat-hit (what I like in stinkies that I'm sucking on right now...help!  )
an airy pull as I mouth-to-lungs inhale almost always
and most likely with some cloud chasing at least while I start. (But think this will stay)
Smoking for me has ALWAYS been about the 15min break and feeling of a tangible consumption that I need between work or massive brainstorming. (Never the nicotine...as I can and have stopped more than once)

**I don't WANT to jump straight into RBA or coils etc, but I have the background and skill to easily take it on...I also imagine that sitting and building or reworking would be very enjoyable for me. (And being able to precision my vape)
***I love spending an hour or 2 setting up and servicing guitars. It's relaxing 

I have about R1000 I can play with for now and have checked every classifieds site, vape-store and the forum classified to weigh up all current and/or available options.

I looked specificly into Vape-King Northcliff which is in the EXACT same street as my lady (which I was at earlier)
Tough luck they're closed
...but I blame it all on you guys and this awesome wealth of knowledge and cool gear you have!!!
I WANT IN ON IT TOO DAMMIT!!!  (Health could improve too...and definitely will after kicking stinkies for good!)

Thanks in advance for the advice and your time!
The last 36 hours of furious research, learning and lurking here has been joyous and I can't wait to get more involved  

Much Love & Peace

Reactions: Like 3 | Winner 3


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## Daniel (25/12/14)

First of all welcome and congrats on taking the first step towards vape Nirvana ....

Now I am by no means an expert so only speaking from personal experience so here goes , 

- what do you mean by 'advanced' capabilities ? A vw device are as advanced as they come depending on the chipset so I gather that is the way you were going ...

From what I can deduce you are looking at something like an istick topped with a Kanger Subtank , so you can go commercial in the beginning and later move to rebuilding


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## free3dom (25/12/14)

For your second essay I will score you A++ 

Going RBA right off the bat is fine, and great (it's not difficult at all and I can tell that you'll take to it very quickly), but you will *need* a clearomizer too. This is due to the fact that coil building is really fun, but only if you can vape while doing it  It also "just works" so it prevents you from going for a cig if you happen to struggle with your current coil build.

That said, the current "standard" entry level type setup is the iStick+mAN (Mini Aspire Nautilus) - it's a great combo that many of our members use daily - I use the iStick but with an RBA instead. One of our members @LandyMan just started a shop (he is located in Centurion, for collections) and he has some of this combo right now on special (for around your budget). You can try and contact him via PM and find out if it would be possible to collect from him at this time (he won't be able to respond here, since vendors can only do selling in the vendor forums, or via PM). This setup will get you off the smokes quite easily - it's tried and tested.

If you can wait (I know, it's horrible) then you can start shopping around and look at how "deep end" you want to start at. We are spoiled for choice from our local vendors, but as I mentioned in the Intro thread, your timing is just bad luck. Over the next couple of days though, you will be flooded with mini-essays by our various immensely helpful members - so the real question becomes: can you wait?

Someone will always be around to advise you, so keep the essays coming and you'll get sorted in no time

Reactions: Agree 1


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## TheLongTwitch (25/12/14)

Shot for the welcome and yeah: advanced in the fact that I need and want some form of control.
The are indeed many ways to achieve control or pre-determined available capabilities,
not to mention the amount of gear out there...seriously, it has been STUPID EXCITING to drool over all of it! 
...however, that is all I can and have done thus far.

So going headfirst into vaping is a solid 150% decision I am steadfast on!
I just know myself with everything I have previously experienced and I know that without some advanced-type control
I am going to get stuck frustrated or unhappy (and broke) with any run of the mil thing.
Hence why I didn't just go to the garage down the road and buy a Twisp  ...almost though!

Wattage is a control I might want later but Voltage I would say is almost required for my initial setup.
I will branch out and obviously add gear in future...I honestly just can not afford to fork out money for dissapointment.
Had enough of that in life that has seriously fueled the stinky addiction!

iStick is widely liked as I have seen and the product line have good stats too, so I am open to it.
I do feel conflicted looking at Box Mods though, because norm for me has been them little death-sticks


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## free3dom (25/12/14)

The box mods put me off too at first, then you hold one :hug:

I've gone from looking exclusively at tubes to exclusively at boxes...the very fact that they are so different from cigs actually makes them cooler

Reactions: Like 1


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## Alex (25/12/14)

Firstly, welcome and congrats on your decision. I would advise you to get a Reo ASAP. But your budget is limited at this stage. So my recommendation would be to look at a Lemo, RTA. Or alternatively the Atlantis, coupled with a CF mod.


via iphone


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## Andre (25/12/14)

Well, after your 2nd essay, my recommendations are still as set out in the thread you introduced yourself in: http://www.ecigssa.co.za/threads/introduce-yourselves.24/page-178#post-162677


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## n0ugh7_zw (25/12/14)

I'd say, that for dipping your toes in the more "hardcore" side of vaping, you can't go wrong with an Aspire Atlantis and a mech mod (Make sure you get a safe battery, purple 2500mah eFest or a Sony VTC4 or VTC5).

a regulated device that'll run an Atlantis, won't fit in your budget as far as I'm aware. That said, the Atlantis performs really well, on a mech mod. You can mouth to lung on the first air flow setting on the Atlantis, and it can give you some clouds on the last air flow setting.

Though, the best advice I could give you, would be for you to head down to a vape shop, and try one out before you buy. Because 0.5ohms (that's the resistance of the coils in the Atlantis) can be pretty harsh initially.

On the rebuildable front. A thing worth noting, is that you can customise your vape to a much greater extent with a rebuildable and a mech mod, than you can with a commercial tank and a VV/VW device.

Using a rebuildable on a VV/VW device, is more a thing of blurring lines. Making coils that are too heavy (literally, too much metal) to have a reasonable ramp up time on a mech mod work. that kind of thing.

Mech mods are also way more compact than most VV/VW devices (Exceptions being the iStick, and your usual stick type batteries like the Vision Spinners, etc...) They also have vibe of being like a classy Zippo, or fancy cigar case kinda thing. Whereas most VV/VW devices don't (unless you spend a s*** ton of money)

A Solid piece of advice I can give you on the VV/VW front, is don't get an eVic Supreme, its not really a 30W device, and has many issues.

Reactions: Like 2


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## huffnpuff (26/12/14)

What have you vaped so far?

Cigarettes are a poor baseline, which is why folks upgrade shortly after their first starter kit.

Theoretical research doesn't help you jack until you physically start somewhere, establish a baseline and work from that. Due to the personal nature of vaping, personal experience is everything and experience is something you only get after you needed it Lol. Go to a place that will let you try before you buy to get a better starting point. With a 1K budget, focus on the all day requirement first, the cloud stuff can come later when you're more experienced.

Are you also factoring the cost of juices? Juices play a big role in your starting line up. Too strong and it becomes a painful excercise, too weak and you're back on ciggies in no time. Don't just blow everything on gear and then snap up a 30ml bottle of something that smells funky or looks fancy. Get 10ml or smaller bottles of juice in 18,12 and 6mg Nic. Once you find the Nic strength you like all day, an atomizer with airflow control and a VV/VW battery will tailor the vape closer to you're liking. For starters a variable device is better so you can begin at lower wattages, especially in the morning and then adjust it higher as the day progresses. Those of us on the mechanicals have experienced enough to know what we like and thus are happy with only needing one "speed" for the whole day.

You won't understand the appeal of box mods till you try, especially if you're looking for a ADV device. Tube mods become a pain in terms of pocket carry.

For R1000, The Joyetech eGrip + the rest for juice is hard to beat as an all in 1 package. Unless you can get an iStick+mAn/MOW/Aerotank cheaper then that can also work. The mAn give a good warm and flavourful vape but is more aimed at mouth to lung hitters as all it's airflow options are quite restrictive. The rest give perform better for those looking for higher airflow options. Just make sure you test the eGrip first to see if the minimum airflow isn't too big for you as it is quite open to begin with. The VV Spinners are good too, but if you're looking for that little extra oomph, then the 20Watt sealed devices are the way go.

Personally, ask nicely and someone might borrow you some of their old starting gear to get you off the stinkies and then go from there. Paying-it-forward is actively practiced in the vaping community.

Reactions: Like 3


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## WHeunis (26/12/14)

Hi @TheLongTwitch, and welcome.

Based on EVERYTHING you have said, I would consider a Kanger SUBTank as your best probable choice.
Neat thing is that it has off-the-shelf coils, so you dont need to get right into rebuilding.
BUT, also includes the rebuildable "insert" so that you can switch to rebuilding whenever you feel you are ready, without needing to spend any more beyond wire and wick.

As for the mod...
Your price limit puts a heavy limit on what we can do here.
It also depends on box vs tube preference...

But what seems to me, is that the SUBTank won't work too well on most devices, and look pretty doing it.
Subtank is a 25mm device - too large for MOST 18650 devices, and also too small for MOST 26650 devices.

Best I can come up with here, is the Sigelei 50W or 100W box mods.
Price is reasonable, preformance is good.

Total for those 2 will come out a few units north of your stated limit, but I personally feel that this combo will best suit all your immediate, and most of your future-planning needs.


Hope this helps.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Daniel (26/12/14)

+1 on the Egrip , very very nice and compact device with RBA capability later when the vendors start stocking the parts 

Just remember with a mech mod you will have the extra overhead of buying a charger and batteries , you should already have a multi meter I presume for the ohm measurements on your coils .... 

I am in your area so you are more than welcome to come check out some of my gear is you like in the new year....


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## Silver (26/12/14)

Superb advice guys. Just reading all this advice I am impressed

@TheLongTwitch , i wish I got this advice and had these choices available when I started vaping 

I would like to add a few things

As @huffnpuff said, you need to get yourself sorted and get something reliable to quit your stinkies. After all, I assume that is your primary goal? Getting a mech and some fancy cloud blowing atty may be cool, but I dont think its going to be easy to expect that to get you off the stinkies from day one. 

Also, to properly get off stinkies, you need two of everything. Backup in case of failure and backup in case one battery goes flat at a bad time. Also, having two flavours on the go makes it easier. 

I will also stress again the importance of the juice. Without finding a few juices you really like, you will need massive determination to make the switch. If you like the juices, its easy. 

Honestly, the "good tried and tested commercial gear" suggested above is more than enough to quit the stinkies. Better to go for something like that and achieve your goal of stopping stinkies and then go on to bigger and more detailed things on the hobby side of it when you have more experience and start understanding better what your preferences are. 

All the best

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Rotten_Bunny (26/12/14)

@TheLongTwitch, im just waiting for my monies to get into order for an order that i have placed with another member of the forum. Once that is done, you can have my Vision Spinner and MPT3... You just need to pay for the postage... And source a good juice.. Dont get me wrong, i love my Vision and MPT3. But i hardly use it anymore due to Certain people on the forum getting me to dwell even deeper yet into the Rabbit Hole..



Rotten Bunny.

Vape the Planet !

Reactions: Like 3 | Winner 4


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## Daniel (27/12/14)

@Rotten_Bunny wow this is what makes this such an awesome community good on you brother!

@TheLongTwitch my offer also still stands if you want to check out some of my gear or need advise feel free to PM me can loan you a kit as well

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 2


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## TheLongTwitch (27/12/14)

Im honestly and absolutely blown away by the warmth, kindness and hearts of everyone here!
Thank you all SO MUCH! There is so much good advice and options!!!

As a fellow old grumpy man(despite my age), my cynicism grows daily and I honestly fear the survival of the human race/planet if things continue the way there are on this crazy rock!
However, meeting such wonderful people that share so unrestrained (knowledge and gear) gives me hope and happiness!

I have already thanked @Rotten_Bunny and accepted his gracious offer 
On grounds that I am to show the same kindness and pay-it-forward to someone in need when I acquire my own setup!

@Daniel expect a PM and some essays shortly  Haha!

The large factor of experience limited to a old shoddy N-Joy has determined the logic, that I need to actually get stuck in, test and try out some gear before any question, idea or my request will hold any valid weight 
...and I don't wish to provoke the grumpy man in me by now knowing enough 
Knowledge is key but experience is VITAL!

Thanks again all! I hope that everyone has had a wonderful Christmas and that the new year brings wonder and happiness!
Much Love & Peace

Reactions: Winner 3


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## free3dom (27/12/14)

@TheLongTwitch vapers are a wonderful bunch, no doubt 

I have a theory it's because they float on clouds all day long 

Best of luck to you (and your inner Grumpy) on this the start of your new journey...may your days be sunny and cloudy always 

PS: just when you think you know it all...I guarantee there will be something new to learn...this rabbit hole has no bottom

Reactions: Winner 1


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## TheLongTwitch (27/12/14)

@free3dom thanks!
And don't worry, I'm already interested in taking on the challenge of building a MOD/PV from scratch.

But that'll be a project starting in Feb most likely...with detailed documentation and pictures for all 
Maybe I can start a truly SA build or revolutionise some aspect all together...1 step at a time, maybe 2 because of my long legs!

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Daniel (27/12/14)

TheLongTwitch said:


> @free3dom thanks!
> And don't worry, I'm already interested in taking on the challenge of building a MOD/PV from scratch.
> 
> But that'll be a project starting in Feb most likely...with detailed documentation and pictures for all
> Maybe I can start a truly SA build or revolutionise some aspect all together...1 step at a time, maybe 2 because of my long legs!



Sho jumping in with both feet , good luck I suspect this rabbit hole has no bottom .... Like most hobbies


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## johan (27/12/14)

@TheLongTwitch (cool name BTW), although I can't relate to either/or "old" and "grumpy", I will most definitely share PEACE with you brother!

​

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1 | Funny 4


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## free3dom (27/12/14)

TheLongTwitch said:


> @free3dom thanks!
> And don't worry, I'm already interested in taking on the challenge of building a MOD/PV from scratch.
> 
> But that'll be a project starting in Feb most likely...with detailed documentation and pictures for all
> Maybe I can start a truly SA build or revolutionise some aspect all together...1 step at a time, maybe 2 because of my long legs!



One of our esteemed members @HPBotha is already all over that, have a look at this 

Edit: there is also this one (almost forgot) 

But we could definitely do with many more

Reactions: Like 1


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## Rotten_Bunny (27/12/14)

@TheLongTwitch,
I left out a digit on the mod, its a Vision Spinner 2 and MPT3 and Charger.. I will fill the tank with some 16mg Ry4, a good caramel vanilla chocolaty vape. Kicks like a mule after 6pm.. Still dont know why
Í
As far as i am concerned, jumping head first into extreme vape gear (mechs) is not really a good idea, untill you know what you are doing. I still dont know what im doing ! , built a sub ohm coil for my Kayfun and have not had the guts to post about it untill i am sure im not jaaging kak aan ... This is a very exciting world we dwell in here on Ecigssa, we understand each other... People at work think im some sort of deviant! Sucking on a Vibrator and stuff .

We still on for Monday dude, i have pm'ed you my contact number. Whatsapp me.

See you Monday


Rotten Bunny.

Vape the Planet !

Reactions: Like 4


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## TheLongTwitch (29/12/14)

Today (Monday) I get my first toy! 
Which has been graciously been sponsored by @Rotten_Bunny 
Thank you SO MUCH!!! 

I also wanted to add that my conquest for my perfect rig is only starting (as I'm sure you all know) 
Though I have taken quite a shine to the Cloupor T5, SMOK BEC Mini...any comments?
And my research has no inkling of slowing down, let alone stopping.

Already found 2-3 possible regulating chips for building a mod 
(But a few more months of hard knowledge and veteran discussions before I attempt anything unthought out or foolish)

In the mean time I'm interested to find out if there is specific devices or requirements that determine a awesome cloud blowing rig besides high/pure VG and a good RDA?
(Looking at Doge, Dark Horse, Plume Veil and Tugboat and would also like opinions)

I imagine that single, dual etc. and ohmage + wattage could have great differences too.

Nothing has been fully decided and I will keep updating as I progress,
And obviously covey my final decision when I do decide 

Much Love & Peace!


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## Arthster (29/12/14)

Generally massive clouds are done from unregulated mechanical mods. But keep in mind that this is where the safety aspect comes in. I have huge respect for cloud chasers. as this is where your kit is pushed to the utmost of limits And battery quality is really tested here. 

My reluctance to go below 0.5 ohm is the reason I wont call myself a full blown pro cloud chaser. you will get decent room filling clouds anywhere from .6 to 1.5 ohm if you have your coiling and wicking skills sorted and the RDA is designed for it. The most important parts to look at is your RDA, airflow, coil and wicking. 

you can very easily get a "cloud" from a fairly decent regulated mod (I mean mods that are in the 15 - 20 watt range) if your RDA is designed for clouds and has well built coils and wicks, but I wont enter competitions with this setup. the next thing to look at is your juice. 

If you want to blow massive competition clouds then a Mech is the way to go but again at this level you need batteries that can cope with this. I think the lowest resistance a regulated mod allows at the moment is .2 ohm. But I am sure you know ohm's law very well so you will understand that using a battery then can only supply 10 amp will not be to thrilled on a build that demands 40++ amp

With coiling its important to understand ramp times. in most regulated mods a low ohm dual coil setup takes to long to warm up and single coil with the same ohmage might be better. the Istick for one is not happy with 1 ohm dual coils and works much better with a 1 - 1.5 ohm single coil build (Remember this is from an RDA point of view. its is perfectly happy with clero's running duel coils but this is due to the type of wire used in the clero tank coils and they are generally not designed for cloud chasing although some does give decent amount of cloud). As stated before the Istick gives me better cloud with a single coil design from the Aspire Nautilus then I get from the Kangertech protank dual coils. But the Nautilus has much better airflow which is another very important part of cloud chasing.

Reactions: Like 4


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## n0ugh7_zw (29/12/14)

I'm not too sure about the T5, but the T6 and T8, have gotten a lot of bad press for not delivering what they say they'll deliver. the T6 only gives out something like 60-70W of its promised 100W. It is possible, that this may be fixed in a firmware update. 

But Cloupor has a really bad reputation with firmware updates, and the general consensus with the T5 is to not update them under any circumstances. Because the likelihood of them bricking, is very very high.

A sigelei 50W or 100W, are far better options in my opinion, they don't look quite as nice, but in terms of reliability and capability, they have far better reputations.

On the RDA front, I can recommend the Magma, and Hobo RDA's, both are friendly to newcomers. A general rule of thumb, is the more airy an atomizer, the more it will leak on you. Few things enrage my inner grumpy old man more, than having juice over everything.

The Hobo RDA will give you significant clouds, it's unique airflow, allows for quite airy draws, whilst not leaking too much. The Magma, is more of a daily driver device. it doesn't make huge clouds, but the flavour from it is among the best you can get.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Informative 1


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## TheLongTwitch (1/1/15)

@Arthster I guess I should have been more specific in that I'm not aiming for competitions or anything.
Thanx for all the useful advice though, it's still going to come in handy.
I more want to have a rig with big/good sustained clouds I can play with, rather than just massive rainclouds 

@n0ugh7_zw thanx for all the wise words! I am now falling for the SMOK mini, although its called mini it looks like it's already eaten an iStick and is ready for more 

*To Note: As I was writing this, it felt like a good idea for a review of this starter kit for SkyBlue, because I haven't seen any on the forums and it is the ultimate for a beginner trying to find his "juice & flavour profile" 
So expect to see this pop up in the E-Juice reviews(and edited/updated in this thread) once the other 5 juices have been thoroughly tested! 

I stopped by Skyeblue yesterday morning and picked up their 10 x 3ml flavour E-Juice starter pack, which was accompanied by a free 30ml bottle of Happy Holidays, which is steeping still but I cant wait to try it (a warm amber brown colour at the mo)

Thank you @Melinda for the awesome tasties! 

*All tested with: Vision Spinner 2 with KangerTech Mini Protank 3

Apple Pi* was puffed up like a choo choo until the tank was empty!  (I LOVE IT!)
*Strawberry Snap* was a bit much for my tastebuds right now, but reminds me of halls strawberry and prolly good for flu! 
*Bavarian Cream* was breakfast or could be dessert too!  Delicious with a cuppa Jacobs coffee and home made rusks.
*Amaretto* wasn't for me at all. It made the tip of my tongue numb and i found myself drawing hard to get more body flavour.
*Strawberry* I found require's decent heat to really get the flavour going, but then it's smooth sailing all the way 

*Baked Apple* - next in line after this strawberry, which has been my trusty writing partner through this whole post!
*Ry4 Double* - I have Ry4 18mg that is way too intense for me. The 12mg might be way better but what is double?
*Melinda's Nilla Custard* - Sounds like my heaven!!! So I'm keeping it for something special as I only have 3ml 
*Black Cherry* - Drooling every time I put it off as I flatten regular cherries anywhere, anytime, anyday!
*Frostbite* - I was a menthol smoker and Im scared to try this  But I will!

Questions:
-I tend to exhale out my nose and I've noticed that if I'm vaping like a choo choo I tend to get a runny/watery nose 
Is this the vapour condensing in my nostrils on exhale, or something else and natural to happen?
-When puffing or doing slow pulls on the mini protank 3 I get gurgling type sounds, but not when full lung pulls.
I assume that an influx of juice is seeping into the atomiser and coil? (Correct me if wrong) Cause or fix?
-Steeping: Can someone provide me with a detailed and informative link?
@free3dom gave me the basic break down, but I must know MORE!!!  Haha!
-Numb tongue and/or mouth. As well as itchy throat.
Is this the nicotine content or the PG/VG mix? (Only really happened with Amaretto and Strawberry Snap though)

Thank you guys for all the help, info and awesomeness!!!
Much Love & Peace!

Reactions: Like 2


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## Arthster (1/1/15)

@TheLongTwitch. I absolutely love the way you are doing your home work. on the Smok mod you are looking at you will definitely get the cloud cover you are looking for. 

With regards to your questions

the snot nose is condensation and is nothing to worry about I get that as well when I am chain vaping or trying to look like a dragon 

the Nautilus does have a bit of a gurgle on slow puffs and its normal. I was also worried about this but basically its the juice that flows in from the wick and collect in the middle of the coil. Remember the coil in the Nautilus sit vertical, so when you draw the air flow is through the middle of the coil. when you do a lung it the airflow is faster so you don't notice the gurgle. 

The numbness you are experiencing is also fairly normal if you vape allot. but yes this can be due to nicotine as nicotine does num a little. also if you are vaping menthol or mint like flavors you will notice this as well. 

As with steeping, I am no expert so we will need for one of the brew masters to advise on that one.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Silver (1/1/15)

Lovely post @TheLongTwitch !
Sounds like you are having fun and discovering a lot in a short space of time
Great move to get the sample pack

Will try answer some of your questions in a follow up post


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## n0ugh7_zw (1/1/15)

@TheLongTwitch thats awesome man... if you can wait a bit, i'd highly recommend waiting for the iStick 50W to be released. It looks to be a much more versatile device than the smok x mini pro. it can fire as low as 0.20 ohms, and runs from 3.6-10V, and it has a 4400mah built in battery (i'm guessing 2 of the batteries from the original iStick) from what i've seen and read, the iStick 50W, is going to be a mighty compelling device.

Also the iStick 50W takes care of a few different aspects of your vaping progression pretty neatly.

1. You don't need to fuss with changing batteries, and amp limits and that kind of thing.
2. You can just plug it into a USB port, and you're golden, you can vape while it charges
3. It's powerful enough to stay with you for a while, it'll run an Aspire Atlantis happily (Next logical step from where you are now).
4. It has the operating range and the power output to do some pretty serious dripping, when you eventually get into rebuildables, and it can double as an ohm meter.
5. It has a ton of safety features, so you can fiddle and experiment to your hearts content without having to worry about batteries venting or any of that kinda stuff.
6. Also if the projected prices are anything to go by, it should be R200ish cheaper than the Smok x mini pro

Condensation in the nostrils is pretty normal. i find every second or third hit I exhale through my nose, it helps pick up the more subtle flavours of the juice. Doing it with a moustache feels damned odd.

I find that juices with higher concentrations of PG tend to feel harsh on my throat, and they also tend to make my tongue feel like its turning to dust. If you're willing to experiment, buy some BP gylcerin from a pharmacy and try mixing a little bit of that into the juice, and see if that alleviates the symptoms.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## Silver (1/1/15)

Hi @TheLongTwitch

Am pasting in your questions here so I can see them while typing my response

-I tend to exhale out my nose and I've noticed that if I'm vaping like a choo choo I tend to get a runny/watery nose 
Is this the vapour condensing in my nostrils on exhale, or something else and natural to happen?
-When puffing or doing slow pulls on the mini protank 3 I get gurgling type sounds, but not when full lung pulls.
I assume that an influx of juice is seeping into the atomiser and coil? (Correct me if wrong) Cause or fix?
-Steeping: Can someone provide me with a detailed and informative link?
@@free3dom gave me the basic break down, but I must know MORE!!!  Haha!
-Numb tongue and/or mouth. As well as itchy throat.
Is this the nicotine content or the PG/VG mix? (Only really happened with Amaretto and Strawberry Snap though)

As @Arthster pointed out, the runny nose is fairly normal. I got that a lot in the beginning but it went away.

Slight gurgling is a fairly normal thing for most tanks. I wouldnt worry about it as long as the vape is good. But if its a bad gurgle, then take the tank apart, remove the coil, clean it all and also put some toilet paper down the drip tip to soak up any juice drops there. Check all the seals are there. If its still gurgling badly, try with a new coil.

I think SkyBlue juice is already steeped. Maybe @Derick can confirm if the sample pack is steeped. The easiest way to steep is just to put the bottle as is in a dark cupboard or drawer and leave it there for a week or two. There are plenty methods of steeping faster by shaking, openint the bottle and letting air in andcalso by applyint heat. But I have not tried these. I am no expert in this. Do a search on this forum for steeping and you may find some threads where members have discussed lots of steeping techniques. But be careful, some of these techniques can break down and weaken the nicotine. Best thing is for you to probably order you next batch of juices now. By the time you are ready to try them they will be steeped.

Numbness on the tongue or mouth is not really something I have experienced. If its short term, i wouldnt worry. I sometimes get that with a new juice or a menthol type juice. But if its longer term numbness, like to the next day, then dont vape that juice again till you get it checked out by a doctor.

The itchy throat I think could also be you getting used to the vaping. I wouldnt worry too much. Perhaps just make a note which flavours give you an itchy throat. But if its serious swelling and rashes then stop and you may be allergic to something in the juice. A very small percentage of people apparently are allergic to PG or VG. Just keep a note as you go along and if anything gets too bad or you cant breathe, then just back off

Another thing to remember is that the juices we vape absorb water out of our respiratory tract. So it helps to drink water, more than you normally do, when vaping. The itchy throat and numbness may also be helped by drinking water. I suggest having a bottle of water with you when you vape and take a nice big sip every few minutes. This helped me a lot especially in the beginning

Looking forward to your next five flavours

All th best and happy 2015

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Informative 2


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## Derick (1/1/15)

Hi @TheLongTwitch,
I remember you picking up the Sample box, sadly I didn't get a chance to chat to you, it was a bit hectic at the time (that was our impromptu mini vape meet  )

The Sample box is steeped yes, so you can go ahead and enjoy 

And I'm with @Silver on the weird symptoms, my first few days I had all kinds of weird things happening, I often wondered if it was due to stopping the stinkies or the intro into vaping, either way, most of the weird stuff disappeared after a few days (my mouth and throat burned when it first started, like I just took a mouth full of pepper)

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1


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## Arthster (1/1/15)

Agree with @Silver and @Derick. Your no longer getting the other crapola that's in analogues that kept you addicted. I use to get monster headaches in the begging. Luckily the doctor I went and saw (Dr Rampasoon I think, he is at San Ridge) was pro vape and he did a on the spot diagnoses. IT was withdrawal from analogue smokes. The headaches where gone about a week later. Sorry I missed the scratchy throat, but hi PG juices give me a feeling like acid indigestion. It feels like I just had a garage pie for about 10 minutes after vaping.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Derick (1/1/15)

Oh and @TheLongTwitch - you keep on referring to the sample box as a starter kit - confused us heavily for a while, as we sell a DIY starter Kit -

Reactions: Like 1


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## TheLongTwitch (1/1/15)

The kit is steeped yes, but @Melinda said that the Happy Holidays was mixed that morning, and I have watched it go from clear to this golden honey type it is now...and I need to fill my tank as my strawberry has just run out and I didn't notice 
So I'm debating baked apple or Happy Holidays 

@Derick Don't worry, I saw the boy's excitement, but I will meet and pick your brain soon soon 

And don't worry @Silver I'm used to looking after myself and knowing good and bad, besides my lady being a doctor 
So I am on the lookout for weird things happening or particularly persisting.
However I'm certain that I'm going to drop to 12 if not 6mg because as much as people tell me that I was addicted to the nicotine, I don't agree because it was all about the throat-hit, smoke and 15min break I need to relax.
I'm really not enjoying the nicotine part so far, but loving thew rest!!!
i seem to always be thirsty (not diabetic or anything) so having a flavour always available without wasting money on cooldrinks and/or coffee etc. and just stick to water from now on is way more appealing and satisfying! 

And I havn't 100% settled on a new device yet @n0ugh7_zw but I will check out the new iStick 
I think in the mean time I NEED another tank for a second flavour and/or option with changeable airflow etc.

Much Love & Peace!


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## TheLongTwitch (1/1/15)

Sorry @Derick I'm literally online 1 week in and with the wealth of knowledge available here and all around the net, I do get a bit flabbergasted with certain things 

But bear with me and you can do some schooling on my next visit maybe?

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2


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## Silver (1/1/15)

Lol @TheLongTwitch , only trying to help
Enjoy the juices

Reactions: Agree 1


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## TheLongTwitch (1/1/15)

I appreciate all the concern, advice and help  And I'm not shrugging off anything you've said, just letting you know that I'm big enough, ugly enough and luckily smart enough to care of myself 

And thanks @Silver the taste has been FANTASTIC to say the least! (Think the water tip will help lots too )

Reactions: Like 2


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## johan (1/1/15)

@TheLongTwitch, just some of the symptoms I experienced beginning of 2014, after smoking for 39 years, if its of any consolation:

Sore throat
Pimples like a teenager
2 to 3 hours sleep per night maximum
Constant dry mouth
Lovers lips

Coughing like a typhoid patient
Wheezing
It all came to pass after about 4 to 5 weeks of vaping

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3 | Can relate 3 | Informative 1


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## Silver (1/1/15)

johan said:


> @TheLongTwitch, just some of the symptoms I experienced beginning of 2014, after smoking for 39 years, if its of any consolation:
> 
> Sore throat
> Pimples like a teenager
> ...



Lol @johan, please can you explain lovers lips

Reactions: Funny 2


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## johan (1/1/15)

Silver said:


> Lol @johan, please can you explain lovers lips



Those sores you develop on your lips when kissing too many different girls Silver 

PS. I assume herpes zoster to be precise

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 4


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## Silver (1/1/15)

johan said:


> Those sores you develop on your lips when kissing too many different girls Silver
> 
> PS. I assume herpes zoster to be precise



Ok thanks, got it. 
Lol


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## Arthster (1/1/15)

I was thinking something more like when you run and slide on a carpet.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## johan (1/1/15)

Arthster said:


> I was thinking something more like when you run and slide on a carpet.



That is called carpet burns (of the worst kind) .

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 2 | Funny 3


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## TheLongTwitch (1/1/15)

@Arthster you slide your lips on the carpet?

I know some people are weird, but that's pushing it!!!

Reactions: Funny 2


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## n0ugh7_zw (1/1/15)

@johan Lol, i thought i was the only one with the pimples


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## johan (1/1/15)

n0ugh7_zw said:


> @johan Lol, i thought i was the only one with the pimples



Ja me too, I was waiting on the "stoneys" to happen, but luckily skipped that one

Reactions: Funny 2


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## n0ugh7_zw (1/1/15)

what are "stoneys"? Urban Dictionary didn't have anything


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## Arthster (1/1/15)

its when you nurps go super sensitive when you start growing hair in odd places.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## johan (1/1/15)

n0ugh7_zw said:


> what are "stoneys"? Urban Dictionary didn't have anything



Geez! those sore sensitive nipples you develop in early teenager stage.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## n0ugh7_zw (1/1/15)

LOL!!!!

Luckily, I'm pretty sure every possible follicle is in use already. I'm like a gorilla.


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## Arthster (1/1/15)

is it just me or has this thread migrated south?

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## n0ugh7_zw (1/1/15)

indeed it has, apologies all

Reactions: Like 1


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## johan (1/1/15)

Move it to the "k@k praat" thread aka "Chatroom"

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Arthster (1/1/15)

No need to apologize, This stuff is what keeps threads going.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## free3dom (2/1/15)

As usual, I totally agree with everything said so far 

I'll just add a few of my own notes. First, and this is very important (not really, but it is )...the taste of the liquids can change dramatically when you vape it on higher powered devices. If possible, keep that second SkyBlue sampler for when you have a more powerful device to taste the difference 

The Smok M50 (Mini Dragon) is the new love of my life  It's an amazing device that has power to spare. If you go with this device you will be sorted for experiencing many many different vape styles and attys for a long time. And, as you noted, it really likes eating iSticks...took a bite right out of mine  ...actually I've just been neglecting my iStick for the Dragon 

Loved the mini juice reviews, very nice...I suck at juice reviews so I never even attemted to do that 

As for steeping, these are a few threads on here for you to peruse (our members are a very clever bunch)...loving the enthusiasm by the way 

http://www.ecigssa.co.za/threads/steeping-for-noobs.4975/
http://www.ecigssa.co.za/threads/conventional-steeping-vs-fast-steeping.5991/
http://www.ecigssa.co.za/threads/the-difference-steeping-makes.5443/
http://www.ecigssa.co.za/threads/steeping-techniques.836/

Reactions: Like 4


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## TheLongTwitch (3/1/15)

I am quite partial to the mini dragon myself and it's definitely in my sights...but that will only be in a months time unless an item of my gear sells 

I enjoy cooking and I have a knack for it because I learned all the spices and herbs, cooking methods and science behind it...So I have definitely noticed how more power affects every flavour that I've encountered 
I was actually sad for my little Vision Spinner 2 as it doesn't have the power needed to fully bring out Nilla Custard's flavour :/ I was choo choo'ing down the highway at max V on the spinner, trying to get more of that tasty goodness!!! 
Cooking & flavours inspired the juice review, and I think reviewing might become a thing 

I've already been brain storming and PRE-preparing and working out a budget (as well as planning the mental journey) for what I know will become essential 
i.e. Cuetips, absorbent paper towel, wire (what type - today's research), wick, tiny paintbrush, ant-static cloth, the types of batteries, a preferred charger, possibly a cheapy usb-thru device to sit at my pc, plus the overall idea of how much power and capability I want 

My coil wonked out last night night, JUST as I loaded up my Black Cherry sample that I've been holding off on and waiting anxiously to try! :'(
...all I got was tastes of what can only be described as licking a dusty old Pentium2 that was found in some cupboard, in your grandparents house, sitting beside some moth balls! >.<

So I've been hours of research into coil building and setups, as I can't really afford to buy coils at this time and I know I'll be too tempted to grab additional gear, walking into a vape shop!

I have checked out all the vendors too, but R100-R300 in petrol and tolls, parking etc. to buy a R40 coil is not happening today...so I will push on! 

And a BIG THANX for the knowledge shared @free3dom

Reactions: Like 2


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## free3dom (3/1/15)

If you like cooking then I definitely see some DIY juices in your future 
We could always do with more juice reviews, and from someone with an understanding of flavour (mine only goes as far as "I like it") would also be very welcome here 

Pre-preparing: the constant state a vaper finds him-/herself if at all times, and for forever  I can totally relate to that 
And that's a good shopping list you've got going already...one more thing to add: o-rings (in all sizes) - you can never ever ever have too many o-rings  A pass-thru device is also essential IMO, very handy.

Sorry to hear about the coils...hope you can sort that out. One thing you can try...take the coil and just leave it in some warm (not boiling, as the seals will melt) water for a while, then take it out and let it dry. Now attach it to the base and then the device (leave the tank part off, so just the base+coil on the battery) - now fire it a couple of times for 5 secs or so (it will sizzle and pop and might smell bad). This should clear off most of the crap from the coil and wick - it's a silica wick so it does not burn; the burning you smell is the buildup of "gunk" (it's a real word ) on the coil. Then just re-use the coil. I've had mixed results with this method, but in a pinch it can revive a coil enough to make it usable again (even if just for a day or two) 

Hope you can get upgraded soon, as this pain (mostly) goes away once you've got a nice rebuildable setup going

Reactions: Agree 1


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## TheLongTwitch (30/1/15)

I am very happy with my decision!
I am born in the year of the dragon, I love dragons, have the attitude and passion of one too...

Reactions: Like 3 | Winner 1


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## Andre (30/1/15)

TheLongTwitch said:


> I am very happy with my decision!
> I am born in the year of the dragon, I love dragons, have the attitude and passion of one too...
> 
> View attachment 20488


Awesome picture!


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## free3dom (31/1/15)

TheLongTwitch said:


> I am very happy with my decision!
> I am born in the year of the dragon, I love dragons, have the attitude and passion of one too...
> 
> View attachment 20488



OMG...as @Andre said, great picture 

Welcome to the big leagues...fantastic setup 
I'm a bit of a dragon fanatic too...got the ink to prove it 

How's the vape?


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## TheLongTwitch (31/1/15)

Absolutely wonderful and the battery life is IMPRESSIVE! =D
SMURF POWA!!! 

I do worry that the firing button is going to hook on something and pop out :/
...does every M50 have a very loose and precarious button?

And I was wondering about juices at high wattage now that I have smurf+dragon power! Haha!!!
...compared to a Vision Spinner 2 
All juices I have are 50/50 and I can't even get close to 20w without it being uncomfortable or nasty?
(1.8Ohm Dual coil kangertech)

If someone could enlighten me as to higher wattages in conjunction with taste...or link me up with an awesome forum post, I'd love ya!

I do presume that the current setup I have isn't suited for high wattage but I want to start getting an Idea of what tank to buy next 
I've considered drippers and want to but honestly don't have time or ability to go that route with my work. 0.o
So far I'm partial to the Orchid v3 and hear that it's flavor is close on drippers 
Otherwise I'll get more dragon power with the new SMOK cloud vapour tank haha!


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## shaunnadan (31/1/15)

@TheLongTwitch Welcome to the forum 

steeping is best described as letting a tea bag sit and brew in a cup. the longer it brews the more intense your flavours will become. @Derrick has a great amount of detail on this in his thread in the DIY e liquid section.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## shaunnadan (31/1/15)

congrats on getting the smok, im using one and its my fav mod so far!

ok so heres my basic explanation to what your going through.

at 1.8ohm resistsnce coils your voltage is rather high on 20W and above.
im currently using a 0.3ohm coil on my smok at 20W and im only at 3.1v

so im sure you noticed with the spinner battery if you cranked up the voltage the taste would get a bit harsher and something burnt. thats the juice reacting at a high voltage.

with a lower resistance coil you can get yourself higher wattages so denser vapor production without increasing the voltage to "nasty juice taste" levels.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## shaunnadan (31/1/15)

i would highly recommend that you get yourself a Rebuildable tank and a dripper for that smok 
the tanks that im loving currently is the Lemo, Lemo drop and my personal favourite the GOBLIN!

drippers depending on whether you want clouds or flavour, the plum veil does a great job of combining both.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## free3dom (31/1/15)

Well done @shaunnadan ...you beat me to it 

Very sound advice above for you @TheLongTwitch 

One thing I'd throw into the mix is maybe looking at the SubTank Mini...just got mine yesterday and I'm smitten already 
It definitely does not have the cloud potential of the Goblin (which is amazing, but also very scarce right now) but what it lacks in that department it definitely makes up for in terms of versatility. This tank can be run with commercial coils (0.5 Ohm or 1.2 Ohm) just like your current tanks (new type of coils though, and they are amazing) - and it also has an RBA base so when you feel up to it you can start rebuilding without needing to upgrade 
With the 0.5 Ohm coil you can easily push it up to around 40W!!

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


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## shaunnadan (31/1/15)

you also get my vote for the subtank mini, enjoyed using it last night.

Reactions: Like 1


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## free3dom (31/1/15)

@TheLongTwitch almost forgot...the M50 button is a bit loose, but I've not had any problems with it hooking on anything or getting stuck. There is a replacement button included in the box (it's a rubbery one)...and if you wait a bit @Derick is going to to figure out how the replacement works...right now we are not exactly sure how the replacement is done - my guess is it's done by unscrewing the top part, but none of us are willing to do brain surgery on our beloved Dragons 

I do suspect that the rubber button will be much less loose so maybe that will work better for you


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## shaunnadan (31/1/15)

no need to "behead the dragon" just to change the button

the metal button (stock) has a white grommit around it which holds it in place. if you want to change the button then get a tiny flat screw driver and wedge it in between and lift around the front of the button.the button will pop off and you can just squeeze in the rubber button. 

the metal button is a bit harder to replace once it out because of that white grommit but if you push it in from 1 side then you use the edge of the flat screwdriver and just tuck in the grommit around it.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## free3dom (31/1/15)

shaunnadan said:


> no need to "behead the dragon" just to change the button
> 
> the metal button (stock) has a white grommit around it which holds it in place. if you want to change the button then get a tiny flat screw driver and wedge it in between and lift around the front of the button.the button will pop off and you can just squeeze in the rubber button.
> 
> the metal button is a bit harder to replace once it out because of that white grommit but if you push it in from 1 side then you use the edge of the flat screwdriver and just tuck in the grommit around it.



Oh, so you've played around a bit with the dragon's knobs 
That's very helpful thanks, I will have a go at it


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## TheLongTwitch (1/2/15)

@shaunnada THAT MAKES PERCENT SENSE!!!

The button isn't loose, although that's how everyone perceives it!
...it only wiggles vertically.
(Unless your button has twisted)

It's to access the grommet and replace the button!

***EDIT***

You'll never guess what happened 10 minutes later 
...while vaping and packing some stuff for an evening with lady later,
the button fell out for no reason at all! 

So mine was very loose 
But on the upside I'm going to fit the little rubber button in now so that I can be at peace 

I'll take some photo's for the guys that want to see and have details

Reactions: Winner 1


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## TheLongTwitch (1/2/15)

Literally popped put for no reason!!!



But you can see the lip on the plastic part is non existent compare to the lip on the rubber button



Really not well made in my opinion: skew, untidy and not to a great standard :/



Hold button gently squeeze the sides between your fingers, then pop the lip into slot aiming upwards....that easy 
(Almost popped it straight in this time but wanted to take a photo for you guys)



Seriously...Tiny push and done!
Feels SO MUCH BETTER!!!



Ahh....happiness again

Reactions: Like 3 | Winner 2


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## TheLongTwitch (1/2/15)

P.S. @shaunnadan Thanks for the short quick recap of Ohms Law in a way I got so easily  
The relation to taste was what I was missing and that helped tons!!!

Thanks so much!

Reactions: Like 1


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## shaunnadan (1/2/15)

Your welcome 

Once you start with rebuildables you have so much more flexibility. And having a high powered device that is capable of subohm resistance is amazing. 

You can build a low resistance coil, that will give you great flavour at low wattage, then ramp up the power and get thick clouds. 

Or a high resistance coil that your capable of pushing very high wattage through.

You start to enjoy different peaks and tastes in the flavours that you get purely because of how the juice reacts to the different power options.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## free3dom (1/2/15)

Fantastic pictures @TheLongTwitch...very useful to all M50 owners 

Thanks for taking the time to post them, you sir are a rock star - with a loose button

Reactions: Like 1


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## Arthster (1/2/15)

I will vouch for the Plume Vail. It is currently my goto dripper. Moerse airflow, and can also supports single and duel coil builds


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