# Dangers Of Clones



## SSSSMARCUSSSSS

Good evening all. wanted to start this thread as i havent seen one before. ive been seeing a lot of people sell clone juice on whatsapp groups and I always shoot down the sale as i believe it cant be safe. I need some more information on what would make it unsafe. 

Any information would be highly appreciated

Sent from my SM-N920C using Tapatalk

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Jack Klinesman

Any impurities would render it unsafe to vape in my view. This stuff is going into your lungs. I am sure people will tell you that all the impurities are "burnt" off at the temperatures that the vape reaches, I am not convinced. Then there is the possibility of have stuff like ether or other harmful chemicals mixed into the juice, and finally I would not like to vape some flavor additive that should be drunk and not vaped. 

NCV for example have a dust proof pressurized environment in which their vape is made. It's only a matter of time before these types of standards start getting written up in the regulations. Me, I would just rather stick to the bigger more well known brands.


----------



## Adephi

Asking the real questions here...

As far as know they taste like manure. But they could also just use budget concentrates and bases that is not as pure as it should be. Thus containing 'toxins'. But I hate that unclear understanding because it sounds like an anti-vaper statement. There must be more to it.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Clouds4Days

Various items make commercial Chinese clone juice unsafe to consume naming some and the most crucial ones-

1. Where was it mad ie. Is it made in a clean environment free from bacteria etc.
2. What ingredients did they use it. What grade PG and VG did they use and is the flavourings certified food grade flavourings.
3. What is actually inside?? Did they add water to dilute it down and add more volume so that prices can be dirt cheap?

Who knows what's inside these juices.
One things for sure they have definetly taken shortcuts in order to make these juices dirt cheap.

So I always say, stay away and if you can't cause the price is so good and you cant afford comercial juice rather buy plain VG and vape that.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## Rooigevaar

I firmly believe that at the prices these juices are being sold that they must be using Industrial grade VG and PG. It is half the price and half the purity. 
They have no problem ripping of an existing brand so why would they have a problem using inferior cheap as chips ingredients? They probably don't even contain nicotine for the most part, and if they do what quality nicotine was used?

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 2


----------



## Raindance

My thinking is that someone with the sufficient lack of ethics to clone a juice will have little regard for using the proper grade of ingredients as well as making use of hygienic proceesing methods. Why should they be bothered incurring those costs? I mean if someone gets sick using their product, who is going to get seud?

Regards

Edit: By clone I mean make and sell a copy as the real deal. Thought that needed to be clarified.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## Rob Fisher

They are suspect all the way... anyone with the ethics of stealing intellectual property and hard work by others is suspect all the way and should be avoided at all costs!

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 5


----------



## Steyn777

Rooigevaar said:


> I firmly believe that at the prices these juices are being sold that they must be using Industrial grade VG and PG. It is half the price and half the purity.
> They have no problem ripping of an existing brand so why would they have a problem using inferior cheap as chips ingredients? They probably don't even contain nicotine for the most part, and if they do what quality nicotine was used?


What's the average price for a juice...by your post I'm assuming it's less than R30 for a 30ml?


----------



## Steyn777

Raindance said:


> My thinking is that someone with the sufficient lack of ethics to clone a juice will have little regard for using the proper grade of ingredients as well as making use of hygienic proceesing methods. Why should they be bothered incurring those costs? I mean if someone gets sick using their product, who is going to get seud?
> 
> Regards
> 
> Edit: By clone I mean make and sell a copy as the real deal. Thought that needed to be clarified.


It did.


----------



## Mr. B

Steyn777 said:


> What's the average price for a juice...by your post I'm assuming it's less than R30 for a 30ml?


I've seen Strawberry Jam Monster clones sell for R120/100ml. That's basically R1.20/ml at retail level prices.

That price alone scares me. If I make a bottle of DIY juice it costs me on average R1/ml using proper ingredients. A commercial manufacturer would be able to make it for less than what I do; but if you factor in shipping and customs there's no way you can sell it at retail level for R1.20/ml.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


----------



## SSSSMARCUSSSSS

Thanks for all the info guys. And about the price, ive seen some clones go for less than R120/100ml. it ridiculous. and the thing is local juice isnt that pricy. personally i buy from a guy in my area that makes his own at 100/60ml and thats still hlaf the price of smoking so why would people buy clones

Sent from my SM-N920C using Tapatalk


----------



## zadiac

I have one simple rule. If it's too cheap, then leave it. Done. I DIY mostly, but do buy juice now and then and then stick to well known, mostly domestic brands.


----------



## Modyrts

When it comes to clone e-liquids you have to stop and think to yourself... its a clone its dangerous... but then after thinking for a while you realise that the vape industry in south africa is unregulated. 

So when you start talking about grades of ingredients and reliability of the producer what is to say that the premium local ejuice you are vaping right now was not made in the back of a shack in some old dudes garden. 

I know some companies have proper lab-like facilities where they produce but not all mixers do. 

Clone or not you never really know what you are vaping.



That being said I have boight many clone juices before and never have I been too dissatisfied. Some clones have really good flavor that actually matches the original flavor, the nasty juice clones taste really good for instance.

Clone juices i woll still buy but a clone device, battery or attomizer at the end of the day losing your fingers or face just isnt worth it.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Modyrts

Just to add onto that... what really defines a clone? 

A copy right? That being said to my knowledge Vape juice brands are not trademarked and to my knowledge recepies cannot be copywritten.


Lets take a basic example that we can all relate to. Look at pharmaceuticals. Medicines. Many of us buy the generics because they are usually half the price although exactly the same recepie maybe with one or two small variations.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Rooigevaar

Steyn777 said:


> What's the average price for a juice...by your post I'm assuming it's less than R30 for a 30ml?



I think I may have written it wrong. What I meant to say is that the Industrial Grade VG is half the price of Pharmaceutical grade. And to be more correct it is less than half the price, I just generalised. 

I think about it this way. It is produced in China, then it is sold at markup to a distributor and shipped to South Africa, then the Distributor sells it to local shops at a markup and that shop then puts a markup on top of that to make a profit and cover their costs of business. If that bottle sells for only R140 for 100ml considering all the markups along the way then it is safe to say that the original cost of product was next to nothing. The only way to achieve this is to use super cheap raw materials. And those materials are certainly not of good quality or purity...

Reactions: Thanks 1


----------



## Humbolt

Modyrts said:


> When it comes to clone e-liquids you have to stop and think to yourself... its a clone its dangerous... but then after thinking for a while you realise that the vape industry in south africa is unregulated.
> 
> So when you start talking about grades of ingredients and reliability of the producer what is to say that the premium local ejuice you are vaping right now was not made in the back of a shack in some old dudes garden.
> 
> I know some companies have proper lab-like facilities where they produce but not all mixers do.
> 
> Clone or not you never really know what you are vaping.
> 
> 
> 
> That being said I have boight many clone juices before and never have I been too dissatisfied. Some clones have really good flavor that actually matches the original flavor, the nasty juice clones taste really good for instance.
> 
> Clone juices i woll still buy but a clone device, battery or attomizer at the end of the day losing your fingers or face just isnt worth it.


Fair enough, each to his own. But what about losing a lung or a heart?

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## Modyrts

Humbolt said:


> Fair enough, each to his own. But what about losing a lung or a heart?




Youre vaping.
Popcorn lung is a reality.
Losing a lung/heart will always be a possibility...

..and in my opinion and lifestyle vaping a faux ejuice is probably the least likely thing to end up killing me.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Rob Fisher

Modyrts said:


> Youre vaping.
> Popcorn lung is a reality.



@Modyrts Popcorn lung is not a reality. There has never been a case of Popcorn Lung from Vaping in the history of the earth!

Reactions: Agree 8 | Winner 1


----------



## Humbolt

Modyrts said:


> Youre vaping.
> Popcorn lung is a reality.
> Losing a lung/heart will always be a possibility...
> 
> ..and in my opinion and lifestyle vaping a faux ejuice is probably the least likely thing to end up killing me.


I think the popcorn lung myth has been debunked a very long time ago, someone can correct me if I'm wrong. I vape as a healthier alternative to smoking, and vaping a clone juice kind of defeats the purpose of vaping for me to a degree. But each to his own, as I said.

Reactions: Agree 3


----------



## Modyrts

Humbolt said:


> I think the popcorn lung myth has been debunked a very long time ago, someone can correct me if I'm wrong. I vape as a healthier alternative to smoking, and vaping a clone juice kind of defeats the purpose of vaping for me to a degree. But each to his own, as I said.




Im not sure awhether or not it has been debunked but it is a possibility.

And i can understand that.

"Each to thsir own" 


However im just trying to get people to stop bashing on clones. Sure they not as great as originals but not all are bad.


----------



## Modyrts

Rob Fisher said:


> @Modyrts Popcorn lung is not a reality. There has never been a case of Popcorn Lung from Vaping in the history of the earth!





Yet, and my point exact.


----------



## Humbolt

So lets say hypothetically that popcorn lung is a reality with vaping. This theory is based on what is known about vaping and the ingredients in ejuice - so I am willing to take the risk. Now I vape a clone juice, not knowing exactly what is in there, I now open myself up to popcorn lung & even more unknown risks. 

No thanks.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## RichJB

Modyrts said:


> Clone juices i woll still buy but a clone device, battery or attomizer at the end of the day losing your fingers or face just isnt worth it.



I think we need to establish terminology here. Clone = designed to copy the original. Counterfeit = designed to fool buyers into thinking it is the original. Juices are mostly counterfeited in the commercial sphere, cloned in the DIY sphere. When you buy a R100 bottle of Boosted at the China mall, that's a counterfeit. When Wayne releases a recipe that emulates the profile of Boosted in #Remixmonth, that's a clone. Or a remix as Wayne prefers to call it.

Hardware is mostly clones. SXK make no bones about the fact that they are copying the Hadaly (or whatever original) design. I have no problems with clone atties in terms of quality. There are some cheap and nasty ones but the SXK ones will be made to much the same standard as the OG. You are not going to blow your lips off by using an SXK clone atty. Counterfeits I won't buy. There are fake Picos which are packaged to make you think you're buying the Eleaf OG. I won't touch those.

There are no clone batteries, only counterfeits. No company releases their version/copy of an LG choc. What they release is an inferior battery designed to fool the buyer into thinking it's a legit LG choc. That is counterfeit and I won't touch them.

In juice terms, I'll happily try clones. I don't buy commercial juice so the manufacturer isn't losing a sale. If Wayne mixes a clone of a commercial juice, I'll probably mix it. Even if I have no idea what the original tastes like, I can still like Wayne's clone for what it is. If I'm offered a Naked juiced for R100, that's a counterfeit not a clone and I therefore won't touch it.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1 | Winner 3 | Thanks 1


----------



## Modyrts

Humbolt said:


> So lets say hypothetically that popcorn lung is a reality with vaping. This theory is based on what is known about vaping and the ingredients in ejuice - so I am willing to take the risk. Now I vape a clone juice, not knowing exactly what is in there, I now open myself up to popcorn lung & even more unknown risks.
> 
> No thanks.




Each to their own  

But show me proof that you know exactly what you are vaping is 100% safe and produced in a proper manufacturing facility that meets standards.


Ive been inside the tiger brands factory where they produce chocolate and i must say i was not impressed even though it is one of south africas largest producers for foodstuffs. 

Im not denying that clones can be unsafe. However i am denying the fact that juices that are not clones are safe. You do not know what is and what isnt. I dont. And dont claim to.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Humbolt

Modyrts said:


> But show me proof that you know exactly what you are vaping is 100% safe and produced in a proper manufacturing facility that meets standards.


Yip, I agree with you 100%. I DIY my own juices, though, and buy my things from a reputable dealer. Although there are some juice manufacturers around who do get their juices mixed in a lab, and most of them will provide proof that they do should you ask. Would a counterfeit juice manufacturer be able to do the same?



Modyrts said:


> Ive been inside the tiger brands factory where they produce chocolate and i must say i was not impressed even though it is one of south africas largest producers for foodstuffs.


Agree with this too, the recent Listeriosis outbreak can attest to this.



Modyrts said:


> m not denying that clones can be unsafe. However i am denying the fact that juices that are not clones are safe. You do not know what is and what isnt. I dont. And dont claim to.


True, but at least with authentic juices you can still act against the manufacturer in the event that something should go wrong. I doubt this would be easy to do with counterfeit juices.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## Modyrts

Humbolt said:


> Yip, I agree with you 100%. I DIY my own juices, though, and buy my things from a reputable dealer. Although there are some juice manufacturers around who do get their juices mixed in a lab, and most of them will provide proof that they do should you ask. Would a counterfeit juice manufacturer be able to do the same?
> 
> Agree with this too, the recent Listeriosis outbreak can attest to this.
> 
> True, but at least with authentic juices you can still act against the manufacturer in the event that something should go wrong. I doubt this would be easy to do with counterfeit juices.




Im new to this forum so not entirely sure how you quote multiple times like that


On another note firslty i just want to say i am not undermining you in any way what so ever.


DIY is possibly the best thing to do because you know what goes in so know what comes out 

Unfortunately i do not have the time or patience to mix and build coils. I would love to and enjoy doing so.

Plus buying liquids give me the exposure and allos me to taste many different things.


I agree with what you said. Ryan hall had a video where he visited some manufactorer and they had very professional staff and facilities however not all producers are like that.


----------



## Humbolt

Modyrts said:


> Im new to this forum so not entirely sure how you quote multiple times like that
> 
> 
> On another note firslty i just want to say i am not undermining you in any way what so ever.
> 
> 
> DIY is possibly the best thing to do because you know what goes in so know what comes out
> 
> Unfortunately i do not have the time or patience to mix and build coils. I would love to and enjoy doing so.
> 
> Plus buying liquids give me the exposure and allos me to taste many different things.
> 
> 
> I agree with what you said. Ryan hall had a video where he visited some manufactorer and they had very professional staff and facilities however not all producers are like that.


Hey no worries my man, we are merely expressing our own points of view 

Check out Vapour Mountain, for one. They have recently opened the doors to their new facility, pics should be in their subforum. 
I also know that Lungasm has their juices mixed in a lab as well. I'm sure there are more who do the same. And IIRC @Clouds4Days did a video where he went around to one of the local vendors mixing facility as well. Very cool to watch, if you're interested.


----------



## Humbolt

Oh and to quote sections of someones post, just highlight the text you would like to quote and a "quote" banner should pop up.


----------



## Modyrts

Humbolt said:


> Hey no worries my man, we are merely expressing our own points of view
> 
> Check out Vapour Mountain, for one. They have recently opened the doors to their new facility, pics should be in their subforum.
> I also know that Lungasm has their juices mixed in a lab as well. I'm sure there are more who do the same. And IIRC @Clouds4Days did a video where he went around to one of the local vendors mixing facility as well. Very cool to watch, if you're interested.


I will definitely check that out

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Modyrts

T


Humbolt said:


> Oh and to quote sections of someones post, just highlight the text you would like to quote and a "quote" banner should pop up.




Oh cool thank you

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## TheV



Reactions: Like 3 | Winner 1 | Funny 5 | Informative 1


----------



## Modyrts

TheV said:


>



XD XD XD


----------



## SHiBBY

I think it's a bit of a grey area because there are a LOT of variables that are not being discussed here, for instance, if I have a friend who makes a killer clone and sells it to me for R100/60ml, I'll probably not have an issue with that because he's saving me the trouble of making it myself and I know him well enough to know his brewing standards. On the other, much darker end of the spectrum some passing vaper on the street says "phone this bra, Twakkie, I met him at a robot the other day, he makes djas juice". Twakkie makes his own original flavour, i.e. not a clone, and sticks a smiley face onto the old eye dropper bottle he sells his juice in with the flavour written on the cap with a permanent marker. Twakkie only deals in cash and will only meet you in the local parking lot to sell his juice.

I would buy the clone from my buddy 1,000 x 1,000 times before even phoning Twakkie.






So clones are not necessarily the danger per se. You can find the most unique juice flavour out there, never before tasted, and it can be dangerous. What matters is... (drumroll)... 

The Source.

Any reputable company making juice will be liable for the product they produce and face all manner of charges if their product had to be tested by a third party and found to contain anything not specified on the label, so it stands to reason that they take the utmost care to ensure that what goes in that bottle is what they intended and not a picolitre of anything else.

And now for the informative part when it comes to faffing about the contents of that which you consume: _Did you know that the FDA, the same FDA that sits on it's high-horse when it comes to vaping, maintains what's referred to as a "Defect Levels Handbook" which stipulates standards such a "ACCEPTABLE NUMBER OF BUG PARTS AND/OR RODENT DROPPINGS" in consumer foods. Isn't science fun..?_

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Winner 1


----------



## Wimmas

It's quite easy to get to a price point of R120 for 100ml. It costs me who purchase on small scale around 80c p/ml all inclusive. 

They buy on a large scale, clone juices whether it be in their kitchens or garage floors, have very low overheads and expenses, and sell at low margins. What they put in there I do not know, but they can easily use decent stuff and still get to those price points.

I am not condoning this, nor have I ever purchased a clone juice - just rationalizing how they get to these price points.

I mostly DIY as I just cannot get myself to purchase juice which costs 4x the amount of what it costs me to make juice. I understand the owners need to make a living, and the retailers have expenses - fair enough. I just do not have the money to continuously vape "premium" liquid with the amount that I vape. It will cost me double of what smoking cost me. I vape around 20ml - 30ml a day - let's use the minimum of 20ml. In a month that is around 600ml. Take a mixture of VK Prime and some other local vendors and say it's on average R160 for 60ml, so it will cost me R1,600 p/m just for juice, It used to cost me R800 a month to smoke cigarettes (Was still around R25 per pack of Winston Blue).

Now and then I buy premium juice, but mostly house brands, like the new VK Prime range is excellent and priced quite well.

There will always be a market for clones - some vapers do not have the finances to pay R350 for a 100ml, so they buy the crap at the flea market @ R120 for 100ml.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


----------



## RichJB

Humbolt said:


> I think the popcorn lung myth has been debunked a very long time ago



I'm not sure it has. If a patient dies from HIV, the cause of death will probably be listed as pneumonia or whatever illness attacks his weakened immune system. A poor diet won't be listed as the cause of death but it can exacerbate his condition and make it easier for HIV/AIDS to take its toll.

Iirc there was some disagreement between Drs Siegel and Farsalinos on this matter. Siegel was saying that the popcorn lung stories are rubbish and fake news. Farsalinos countered that popcorn lung might not be the _primary diagnosis_ if a smoker dies - but that, if present, it could be a contributory factor. So even though the popcorn lung hardening of the cells is not fatal and not the cause of death, it could exacerbate emphysema or lung cancer and make it less likely that your body can fight against these primary conditions. Farsalinos based his observation on autopsies of diseased lung tissues which showed clear evidence of popcorn lung, even though the smoker was diagnosed as having died from lung cancer. The medical conclusion is that the popcorn lung condition just made an already severe problem worse.

I think we can safely say that it's hugely unlikely that any vaper will ever be diagnosed with popcorn lung. Whether we can say that this means that DAAP has no harmful effect on our lungs is debatable. The juice industry has taken a precautionary approach to DAAP which is a good idea in my view. Of course, I throw caution to the winds and vape FW Yellow Cake till I glow in the dark. But I smoked for 37 years. Intelligence clearly isn't my strong suit.

Reactions: Like 6 | Agree 1


----------



## Humbolt

RichJB said:


> I'm not sure it has. If a patient dies from HIV, the cause of death will probably be listed as pneumonia or whatever illness attacks his weakened immune system. A poor diet won't be listed as the cause of death but it can exacerbate his condition and make it easier for HIV/AIDS to take its toll.
> 
> Iirc there was some disagreement between Drs Siegel and Farsalinos on this matter. Siegel was saying that the popcorn lung stories are rubbish and fake news. Farsalinos countered that popcorn lung might not be the _primary diagnosis_ if a smoker dies - but that, if present, it could be a contributory factor. So even though the popcorn lung hardening of the cells is not fatal and not the cause of death, it could exacerbate emphysema or lung cancer and make it less likely that your body can fight against these primary conditions. Farsalinos based his observation on autopsies of diseased lung tissues which showed clear evidence of popcorn lung, even though the smoker was diagnosed as having died from lung cancer. The medical conclusion is that the popcorn lung condition just made an already severe problem worse.
> 
> I think we can safely say that it's hugely unlikely that any vaper will ever be diagnosed with popcorn lung. Whether we can say that this means that DAAP has no harmful effect on our lungs is debatable. The juice industry has taken a precautionary approach to DAAP which is a good idea in my view. Of course, I throw caution to the winds and vape FW Yellow Cake till I glow in the dark. But I smoked for 37 years. Intelligence clearly isn't my strong suit.


I wish we could rate a post more than once, because this post is informative, the vaping of yellow cake till you glow in the dark I can relate to and its really funny as well.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Can relate 2


----------



## aktorsyl

Guys I'm going to say this again.
You're referring to fake juice. Not clone juice.
It's a very, very important distinction and can lead to all kinds of misunderstandings.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


----------



## Anvil

aktorsyl said:


> Guys I'm going to say this again.
> You're referring to fake juice. Not clone juice.
> It's a very, very important distinction and can lead to all kinds of misunderstandings.


Agreed 100%, to the point that I think we should maybe request the thread title be changed.

@SSSSMARCUSSSSS would that be a problem? I'm fairly certain that you are referring to the same thing (fake/counterfeit juices) as everyone else.

Reactions: Agree 3


----------



## Steyn777

Modyrts said:


> Im not sure awhether or not it has been debunked but it is a possibility.
> 
> And i can understand that.
> 
> "Each to thsir own"
> 
> 
> However im just trying to get people to stop bashing on clones. Sure they not as great as originals but not all are bad.


It is in no way even a slight possibility...like none, nothing, zero, Fall, aZiko, Nul.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


----------



## Modyrts

Steyn777 said:


> It is in no way even a slight possibility...like none, nothing, zero, Fall, aZiko, Nul.



Scientific proof to back up your analogy?


----------



## Steyn777

Just as a last and final thought because it's kinda driving me insane:

It is - To each their own - all this swapping around crap must be stopped!


----------



## Modyrts

Steyn777 said:


> Just as a last and final thought because it's kinda driving me insane:
> 
> It is - To each their own - all this swapping around crap must be stopped!




"Swapping around crap"?


----------



## Steyn777

Modyrts said:


> Scientific proof to back up your analogy?


I must provide proof of something that has never happened....think you got this swapped around as well.


----------



## Steyn777

Modyrts said:


> Scientific proof to back up your analogy?


Maybe this will help because it kinda works in the same way:

To think that someone that drives pass a Mine Shaft everyday, runs the same risk of picking up phthisis than a miner working 6 days a week, 8 hours a day underground is about the same level of thinking that went into the theory of popcorn lung in vapers.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## Modyrts

Steyn777 said:


> I must provide proof of something that has never happened....think you got this swapped around as well.



You said there is no possibility for it to occur? Im asking in what do you base this? Why do you say this will never happen if an ingredient which causes popcorn lung is present inside ejuice


----------



## Rob Fisher

Modyrts said:


> You said there is no possibility for it to occur? Im asking in what do you base this? Why do you say this will never happen if an ingredient which causes popcorn lung is present inside ejuice



Simply because of the VAST quantities of the chemical needed to cause popcorn lung is nowhere near high enough in an ecig. Not even close.

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 1 | Thanks 1


----------



## Stosta

Modyrts said:


> You said there is no possibility for it to occur? Im asking in what do you base this? Why do you say this will never happen if an ingredient which causes popcorn lung is present inside ejuice


https://www.ecigssa.co.za/everybody...d-popcorn-lung-again-so-heres-a-graph.t17567/

Check this out @Modyrts , there are also a lot of other threads on this in our "Health Matters" sub-forum...

https://www.ecigssa.co.za/health-matters.f60/

Reactions: Like 1 | Thanks 2


----------



## Clouds4Days

Humbolt said:


> And IIRC @Clouds4Days did a video where he went around to one of the local vendors mixing facility as well. Very cool to watch, if you're interested.



As much as I would Love to take the credit I can't as it was not me. It was @KZOR who did the vapour mountain interview.

Reactions: Like 2 | Thanks 1


----------



## Modyrts

Steyn777 said:


> Maybe this will help because it kinda works in the same way:
> 
> To think that someone that drives pass a Mine Shaft everyday, runs the same risk of picking up phthisis than a miner working 6 days a week, 8 hours a day underground is about the same level of thinking that went into the theory of popcorn lung in vapers.




Baring in mind some people


Rob Fisher said:


> Simply because of the VAST quantities of the chemical needed to cause popcorn lung is nowhere near high enough in an ecig. Not even close.




Pretty sure they said the same thing about the popcorn


----------



## Modyrts

Stosta said:


> https://www.ecigssa.co.za/everybody...d-popcorn-lung-again-so-heres-a-graph.t17567/
> 
> Check this out @Modyrts , there are also a lot of other threads on this in our "Health Matters" sub-forum...
> 
> https://www.ecigssa.co.za/health-matters.f60/



Will do
Thanks

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Modyrts

Stosta said:


> https://www.ecigssa.co.za/everybody...d-popcorn-lung-again-so-heres-a-graph.t17567/
> 
> Check this out @Modyrts , there are also a lot of other threads on this in our "Health Matters" sub-forum...
> 
> https://www.ecigssa.co.za/health-matters.f60/




This came in very useful and im glad you pointed me to this. Thank you i will bare that in mind from now on.

Reactions: Winner 1


----------



## Steyn777

Modyrts said:


> Baring in mind some people
> 
> 
> 
> Pretty sure they said the same thing about the popcorn


Nope...the 1st case WAS actually the 1st time they discovered this is a possibility.

@Modyrts this is the point where I get off, but I'm going to leave you with something to think about:

In the information age, ignorance is a choice.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Can relate 1


----------



## Modyrts

Steyn777 said:


> Nope...the 1st case WAS actually the 1st time they discovered this is a possibility.
> 
> @Modyrts this is the point where I get off, but I'm going to leave you with something to think about:
> 
> In the information age, ignorance is a choice.



In my age, saying such would not end well.

#KeyboardWarriors 

I read up on popcorn lung and i just said what I know however I have been redirected to new information which has brought me to understand. 

Learning is a lifestyle
Try teach someone instead of putting them down next time

Reactions: Disagree 1


----------



## Humbolt

@Clouds4Days Not the VM interview, just a lab visit. Started off at the Mixologists house, I think. if memory serves, I think it might have been the Voodoo boys.


----------



## Clouds4Days

Humbolt said:


> @Clouds4Days Not the VM interview, just a lab visit. Started off at the Mixologists house, I think. if memory serves, I think it might have been the Voodoo boys.



Don't think I saw that one, but if you find it please post on here.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Clouds4Days

The making of a clone counterfeit juice and why it costs so cheap explained :

Reactions: Funny 7


----------



## Christos

Clouds4Days said:


> The making of a clone counterfeit juice explained and why costs so cheap:
> 
> View attachment 139967


I thin they would be more effective if they used corn kernels instead of rice keeping with the popped corn vibe.

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 3


----------



## SSSSMARCUSSSSS

SHiBBY said:


> I think it's a bit of a grey area because there are a LOT of variables that are not being discussed here, for instance, if I have a friend who makes a killer clone and sells it to me for R100/60ml, I'll probably not have an issue with that because he's saving me the trouble of making it myself and I know him well enough to know his brewing standards. On the other, much darker end of the spectrum some passing vaper on the street says "phone this bra, Twakkie, I met him at a robot the other day, he makes djas juice". Twakkie makes his own original flavour, i.e. not a clone, and sticks a smiley face onto the old eye dropper bottle he sells his juice in with the flavour written on the cap with a permanent marker. Twakkie only deals in cash and will only meet you in the local parking lot to sell his juice.
> 
> I would buy the clone from my buddy 1,000 x 1,000 times before even phoning Twakkie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So clones are not necessarily the danger per se. You can find the most unique juice flavour out there, never before tasted, and it can be dangerous. What matters is... (drumroll)...
> 
> The Source.
> 
> Any reputable company making juice will be liable for the product they produce and face all manner of charges if their product had to be tested by a third party and found to contain anything not specified on the label, so it stands to reason that they take the utmost care to ensure that what goes in that bottle is what they intended and not a picolitre of anything else.
> 
> And now for the informative part when it comes to faffing about the contents of that which you consume: _Did you know that the FDA, the same FDA that sits on it's high-horse when it comes to vaping, maintains what's referred to as a "Defect Levels Handbook" which stipulates standards such a "ACCEPTABLE NUMBER OF BUG PARTS AND/OR RODENT DROPPINGS" in consumer foods. Isn't science fun..?_


when its someones diy then it probably is still safe to vape. when its a chinese cheap clone i dont think the same goes for that

Sent from my SM-N920C using Tapatalk

Reactions: Agree 3


----------

