# Liquid changes colour instantly



## Larry

Hey folks,

I need some help/advice please.

Just made a few bottles on liquid with a new batch of VG I got yesterday and all my mixes are coming out this red/orange colour immediately. I am used to seeing this with certain concentrates after a few days/weeks but never this before. I know the culprit is the VG as I used trial and error with some left over VG I had pre-new batch and the colour came out normal (translucent).

Has anyone experienced this before and is it something I should worry about?


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## Lingogrey

Larry said:


> Hey folks,
> 
> I need some help/advice please.
> 
> Just made a few bottles on liquid with a new batch of VG I got yesterday and all my mixes are coming out this red/orange colour immediately. I am used to seeing this with certain concentrates after a few days/weeks but never this before. I know the culprit is the VG as I used trial and error with some left over VG I had pre-new batch and the colour came out normal (translucent).
> 
> Has anyone experienced this before and is it something I should worry about?
> 
> View attachment 42744


Weird! I have no clue whatsoever, so I am sorry that I can provide nothing constructive. I am intrigued though and would like to see if I can find some info about this - Is the flavour and PG mix translucent and then this happens the very moment that you add the translucent VG?


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## Nightwalker

Want to know too. Bump


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## Larry

I'll add all concentrates, pg and nic then shake and the product is translucent. Then I add the vg and shake and it transforms to this colour. It's totally beyond me. Trying looking for a similar issue on the Web and couldn't find anything.

Reactions: Thanks 1 | Informative 1


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## Nightwalker

Don't vape it dude. Not till we figure this out​@Silver @KimVapeDashian


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## Nightwalker

@shaunnadan @johan


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## Larry

Yeah I'm just gonna let it chill for now


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## method1

I've had bad VG before.. didn't change colour but killed the flavours completely, you probably just got a bad batch of VG.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Mike

What mg?

Reactions: Like 1


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## johan

shaun patrick said:


> @shaunnadan @johan



Hugh? Apologies, I don't know, never experienced this type of color change when diluting with VG.


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## zadiac

If that happens only when you add the VG, then it's obvious that there's something wrong with the VG. Maybe it's not pure VG? Where did you buy it from and did the label say BP and/or Kosher? I'd be a bit weary to vape it. Be careful bud.


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## Silver

Larry said:


> Hey folks,
> 
> I need some help/advice please.
> 
> Just made a few bottles on liquid with a new batch of VG I got yesterday and all my mixes are coming out this red/orange colour immediately. I am used to seeing this with certain concentrates after a few days/weeks but never this before. I know the culprit is the VG as I used trial and error with some left over VG I had pre-new batch and the colour came out normal (translucent).
> 
> Has anyone experienced this before and is it something I should worry about?
> 
> View attachment 42744



Hi @Larry 
What VG were you using before and what VG are you using now?
Perhaps take a pic of the VG bottles and someone can better advise


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## Nightwalker

johan said:


> Hugh? Apologies, I don't know, never experienced this type of color change when diluting with VG.


I just tagged the big boys that I've seen active to see if any of you know


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## JakesSA

zadiac said:


> If that happens only when you add the VG, then it's obvious that there's something wrong with the VG. Maybe it's not pure VG? Where did you buy it from and did the label say BP and/or Kosher? I'd be a bit weary to vape it. Be careful bud.



Err .. kosher?


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## zadiac

JakesSA said:


> Err .. kosher?



It's also a certification of purity

for example: http://www.nicotineriver.com/products/1-gallon-usp-kosher-vegetable-glycerin

I suppose it depends on where you buy it from. USP Kosher is a USA certification of purity/quality of VG (don't know about PG), more for Jewish people I think.

This explains it better

http://www.sealk.org/what-is-kosher...QI390z9Ra0nPdBE0_iNBbChqIQztxc2clgaAhrV8P8HAQ


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## JakesSA

I suspect it refers rather to the origin of the raw material for the glycerine, it being animal or plant matter. I mention this because the bakery supply shops I am sometimes forced to visit during the course of my husbandly duties does specifically sell kosher glycerine but nowhere does it state the actual purity of the glycerine. 

PG is not a by product of natural origin so such an epitaph would not apply.

Reactions: Informative 2


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## zadiac

JakesSA said:


> I suspect it refers rather to the origin of the raw material for the glycerine, it being animal or plant matter. I mention this because the bakery supply shops I am sometimes forced to visit during the course of my husbandly duties does specifically sell kosher glycerine but nowhere does it state the actual purity of the glycerine.
> 
> PG is not a by product of natural origin so such an epitaph would not apply.



I stand corrected then


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## Larry

Hey guys,

The "new" and "old" batches of VG (Glycerine BP) was purchased from Geoff @ Clyrolinx. I've ordered numerous batches from him before and this has never happened. I am currently chatting to him to understand what the issue is as none of his other clients have experienced this issue. He has advised that the batch is from October 2015 so that would rule out any degradation of the liquid.

I did a few fresh tests this morning (TFA Grape Candy), thought maybe it was the bottle I decanted the VG into that could be causing the issue so tried it from the source (both containers I have) and from decanted bottle and here are the results:

"new" Decanted (bottle 1): Light pink/orange
"new" Source (bottle 1): Light pink/orange
"new" Source (bottle 2): Light pink/orange
"old" September VG: Clear




Then I did another test with FW Skittles and this was the result:




All clear! Extremely weird!

@Mike the batch yesterday was all 3mg Nic. I thought that it was the Nic causing this discolouration aswell but I've tried this morning without Nic and getting the same results (besides the Skittles ofc)

Reactions: Thanks 1


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## Mike

If you're getting that colour in 0mg mixes, something is very, very wrong.

The orange colour is usually oxidation of the nicotine, sometimes additional reactions take place which can cause juices to change from an orange amber to a bright red hinting on pink. However if there's no nicotine present, that can't happen.

High temperatures can increase the rate of this reaction as well as exposure to uv.

If none of this is relevant and you are really getting orange coloured juice with no nic, I'd considering not using any of the vg / pg / concentrates that caused it as it suggests they've been contaminated with nic or worse.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Larry

Thanks @Mike, I agree there must be something very, very wrong with the VG. Will try grabbing some Glycerine from dis-chem today and conduct further tests tonight.

It's funny how when just mixing for myself and trying new stuff out I experience no issues like this but when trying to finalize flavours for my juice line so other people can test, this happens! Oh the joys!


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## gman211991

Larry said:


> Thanks @Mike, I agree there must be something very, very wrong with the VG. Will try grabbing some Glycerine from dis-chem today and conduct further tests tonight.
> 
> It's funny how when just mixing for myself and trying new stuff out I experience no issues like this but when trying to finalize flavours for my juice line so other people can test, this happens! Oh the joys!


Did you use fresh syringes when conducting your test on the colour? Sometimes auto oxidation can take place if free radicals are brought into contact with the product. 

Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Larry

@gman211991 Yeah fresh syringes for the source tests but drops/weight for the rest.


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## gman211991

Larry said:


> @gman211991 Yeah fresh syringes for the source tests but drops/weight for the rest.


What were your ambient conditions ie. Light and room temperature when you made your batches on? All major juice makers are extremely careful on those parameters to ensure uniformity 

Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk


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## method1

gman211991 said:


> What were your ambient conditions ie. Light and room temperature when you made your batches on? All major juice makers are extremely careful on those parameters to ensure uniformity
> 
> Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk



I reckon that's extremely unlikely to be playing any part - Larry has already shown its only happening with a particular batch of VG.


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## Larry

All my bases and flavourants are stored in a cool dark place and never mix in extremely bright conditions.


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## Silver

Most interesting - thanks for sharing @Larry
Hope you come right 

Will be interested to hear what happens with a different VG altogether (eg the Dischem one you are going to try)


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## Christos

My juice gets made and looks yellow. It steeps for a month and it generally stays the same colour.
It only goes orange when it's in use and gets opened daily I.E. when oxidisation occurs.
I'm also interested to see what this orange business is about.

Could it be the extreme heat if you are in jhb?


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## Larry

So just an update, picked up some VG at Dischem, just finished mixing and my babies are looking good!

@Silver check how beautiful Ms Dolly Varden worked her magic 



Was definitely a funky batch of VG I had but my supplier will collect and do further tests and of course supply me with a new batch.

@Christos I'm in CPT boet so the only thing that could have affected it at the moment is the wind lol Gale Forcing like a mofo over here!

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 3


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## Andre

Larry said:


> So just an update, picked up some VG at Dischem, just finished mixing and my babies are looking good!
> 
> @Silver check how beautiful Ms Dolly Varden worked her magic
> 
> View attachment 42809
> 
> Was definitely a funky batch of VG I had but my supplier will collect and do further tests and of course supply me with a new batch.
> 
> @Christos I'm in CPT boet so the only thing that could have affected it at the moment is the wind lol Gale Forcing like a mofo over here!


Thanks for sharing your experience. Must have been bacon VG V2.

Reactions: Funny 8


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## Silver

Thanks for the feedback @Larry 
Good to know that you figured it out
Let us know if you get any further feedback from the supplier on any tests that may get done


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## Larry

Lol @Andre all its missing is some eggs 

@Silver no probs will definitely post the feedback I receive.

Reactions: Like 2


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## zadiac

I've been using Dolly Varden since I started mixing and it's all I use

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Informative 1


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## VapeMaker

Hi! Did you ever figure out what happen with the VG? This happened to me back in June of 2015 and we decided to pitch it due to our results. I have recently been plagued with it again, and unfortunately in a much larger batch. It only seems to happen when the VG mixes with the flavorings (nicotine doesn't have to be present). I don't plan on using it, but I would love to find out what is causing this. I haven't found really any other story like this online until now. Both suppliers that provided us with the VG claimed they had never heard of such a thing happening before. Thanks!


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## Larry

Man Oh Man!!! This is a truly interesting scenario. I haven't heard back from my supplier regarding this again will drop him a line right away.


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## Larry

So my sample was sent to the lab for testing. These were the results:

the product passed testing and meets specification levels for BP glycerine (2012)

the 32 ton batch (that this came from) was supplied to major food manufacturers and that they have not received any information from any other source to indicate any problems

the reason for the colour change remains unexplained
I struggled to find any other information on this kinda thing happening on the web so not really sure what to make of this. Perhaps we have a scientist on the forum and could shed some light on it?


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## Cespian

Hey guys. I had the same issue with said suppliers stock. I done a couple tests and noticed the discolouring only when adding following concentrates:

TFA Sweet Cream
TFA Vanilla Custard
TFA Marshmallow
TFA Bavarian Cream
FA Fresh Cream

Other concentrates I used that did not discolour the solution:

TFA Dragon Fruit
FA Strawberry
TFA Strawberry Ripe
TFA Berry Crunch
TFA Menthol
TFA Double Apple
TFA Cotton Candy
CAP Blue Raspberry Cotton Candy

Maybe a common ingredient in the above mentioned concentrates that caused the discolouring. I actually let my juice steep for the duration it normally steeps for and I took the chance and vaped it. I did not notice anything funny with the taste, although I have chucked the rest of the juice just in case I find myself growing an extra toe in a few months time. 

Should there be any biochemists on here that would like to test the batch of VG, I haven't disposed of everything and can send a sample for evaluation.


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## Kalashnikov

Larry said:


> Hey folks,
> 
> I need some help/advice please.
> 
> Just made a few bottles on liquid with a new batch of VG I got yesterday and all my mixes are coming out this red/orange colour immediately. I am used to seeing this with certain concentrates after a few days/weeks but never this before. I know the culprit is the VG as I used trial and error with some left over VG I had pre-new batch and the colour came out normal (translucent).
> 
> Has anyone experienced this before and is it something I should worry about?
> 
> View attachment 42744


Out of curiosity do those numbers stay on the bottle? I used permanent marker on mine but they still wipe off


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## Larry

Hey @Kolashnikov the permanent marker eventually comes off after a while. If I want a more permanent solution I usually put some clear sellotape over the numbers. Then they last forever

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 1 | Useful 1


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## Geoff

Hi, All.

The glycerine causing the discolouration was collected from the customer and sent to the laboratory for testing. Their results showed that the product passed testing for normal test standards as per the original test certificate. They noted to me telephonically that this particular batch, no. 15/10/20 was a 32 ton batch and was also supplied to major food manufacturers and that they have not received any information from any other source to indicate any problems.

Given that the laboratory has confirmed that the tested sample meets specification levels for BP glycerine (2012), they are happy that the product was not contaminated in any way and is safe as a food grade product.

I’ve attached an excerpt of the analysis of the sample as well as the e-mail comment from the laboratory. They noted telephonically that to try to find the conflict between the two different products would be like trying to find a needle in a haystack, but that the glycerine itself meets the required standard.

I’ve had two other cases reported and both were also using TFA flavours and the same glycerine batch. Neither of them noticed any difference in the taste/vape. One decided not to use the glycerine because of the colour. The other used opaque bottles, wasn’t concerned with the colour and used 5 x 6kg containers without incident. The discolouration also seems to be restricted to this batch of glycerine when mixed with only one or two brands of flavours. As noted in the forum above, there was no discolouration when mixed with FW Skittles. We had no discolouration with our own flavour concentrate range.

I’ve had several different batches of glycerine since then without incident. I’ve bought a few TFA flavours and tested them on subsequent batches without colour change. It seems that this is an anomaly which at present can’t be explained.

Please be assured that every precaution is taken to preserve the integrity of our products. If a product does not meet the required standard, a replacement or full refund will be offered.

Geoff.
Clyrolinx (PTY) Ltd.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Nailedit77

Just got my order from valleyvapour, bought some vg and 11 flavours. Mixed uo a batch of the following and colour changed as soon as i gave it a swirl.

Fruit circles
Bavarian cream
Berry crunch
Milk
Sweet cream

This is not the 1st time this has happened, maybe the flavours are a bit stronger than normal and caused the colour change....

Not to bothered as all my mixes are tasting fine, if i grow an extra arm. It just means i can vape more than normal

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Geoff

Hi, sickboy77. (I hope this name doesn't reflect your state of health!)

The overlap of TFA flavours and VG is evident with this discolouration issue. But all indications are that the reaction is not harmful. Perhaps Valley Vapour have an opinion, since you bought your VG from them. Have you discussed it with them?

Geoff.


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## Nailedit77

Geoff said:


> Hi, sickboy77. (I hope this name doesn't reflect your state of health!)
> 
> The overlap of TFA flavours and VG is evident with this discolouration issue. But all indications are that the reaction is not harmful. Perhaps Valley Vapour have an opinion, since you bought your VG from them. Have you discussed it with them?
> 
> Geoff.


Hi Geoff, lol no. My nic has nothing to do with my health.

It only changes colour with certain flavours, so im not to worried.


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## Muhammad Rawat

Hi 

also experienced this issue for the first time, both batches of VG from valley vapor, for me it seems to react to TFA strawberry. My first batch from beginning of feb has turned back to oxidized yellow.

Freshly mixed batch, light orange


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## Silver

Welcome to the forum @Muhammad Rawat !

When you get a chance, feel free to introduce yourself here:
http://www.ecigssa.co.za/introduce-yourselves.t24/


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## jenny

Larry said:


> Hey folks,
> 
> I need some help/advice please.
> 
> Just made a few bottles on liquid with a new batch of VG I got yesterday and all my mixes are coming out this red/orange colour immediately. I am used to seeing this with certain concentrates after a few days/weeks but never this before. I know the culprit is the VG as I used trial and error with some left over VG I had pre-new batch and the colour came out normal (translucent).
> 
> Has anyone experienced this before and is it something I should worry about?
> 
> View attachment 42744


oh my god , I can hardly believe.normally , VG never Change color, how long have you store it? 
i have vaping for 2 years , never meet this thing, you can try my liquid base, its very good , if the liquid leak or change color ,the vender will shoulder the responsibility. PM me


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## Nailedit77

I contacted Valleyvapour, Andrew said that he had not had any complaints or heard of this regarding colour change. He will be sending me another bottle of VG to try, no matter what flavours I use. It changes colour.

Made this morning and changed same time again, only when I add vg it does this...

Bavarian cream
Sweet cream
Cinnamon Danish
Vanilla custard
Vbic

Weird


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## drew

@Silver, can the thread please be moved to somewhere where I can openly join this discussion.


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## Silver

drew said:


> @Silver, can the thread please be moved to somewhere where I can openly join this discussion.



Thread moved to "Who has stock". 
Go ahead @drew

Reactions: Thanks 1


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## drew

Thanks @Sickboy77 for bringing this to our attention.

Firstly I would like to say that while a change in colour caused by the VG is strange I don't think it's in any way harmful.

Our current batch was manufactured on 04 October 2015 and the certificate of analysis shows all tests passed and a purity of 99.80%, well within the BP spec. I've tasted and vaped it and detected nothing to make me think otherwise. 

Something I finally noticed this afternoon when trying to figure this one out is that in the right light at just the right angle I can see a slight yellowish/orange tint to the VG. On inspection of the certificate of analysis I found the characteristics of glycerine:
_
"A syrupy liquid, unctuous to the touch, colourless or *almost colourless*, clear & very hygroscopic."_ 

I believe that it's this almost colourless, damn near impossible, to spot tint in this batch that may have caused the change in colour.

We are expecting a new batch, manufactured 20/01/2016 to arrive later this week.


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## Nailedit77

drew said:


> Thanks @drew
> 
> Firstly I would like to say that while a change in colour caused by the VG is strange I don't think it's in any way harmful.
> 
> Our current batch was manufactured on 04 October 2015 and the certificate of analysis shows all tests passed and a purity of 99.80%, well within the BP spec. I've tasted and vaped it and detected nothing to make me think otherwise.
> 
> Something I finally noticed this afternoon when trying to figure this one out is that in the right light at just the right angle I can see a slight yellowish/orange tint to the VG. On inspection of the certificate of analysis I found the characteristics of glycerine:
> [I]
> "A syrupy liquid, unctuous to the touch, colourless or [B]almost colourless[/B], clear & very hygroscopic."[/I]
> 
> I believe that it's this almost colourless, damn near impossible, to spot tint in this batch that may have caused the change in colour.
> 
> We are expecting a new batch, manufactured 20/01/2016 to arrive later this week.



Hi @Drew, really appreciate you looking into this and figuring it out. As I mentioned to you, the colour change has
not bothered me at all as all my mixes tastes fine.

Thanks again for looking into this and clearing up any questions I think most people have had with the same experience.


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## Nailedit77

Just got a new bottle of VG from @drew, 
Mixed up some sucker punch and colour hasnt changed  like i said before, the colour change has not affected the flavour and mixes at all. Just glad I now know where the problem was.

Time for some more DIY


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