# Pre-steeping concentrates.



## Lightbringer (13/6/20)

I have seen a few people say that they pre-steep concentrates.

Now this makes sense in my mind because then as you are mixing a recipe you generally get a immediate true taste from what you are making.

Blame it on that my maths sucks or that I'm only on my 2nd coffee of the day, but nothing else makes sense to me. 

So you make a 10ml bottle of (TFA) Strawberry Ripe and you mix it at 5%. That restricts you to only using 5% in whatever recipe you are trying to create. I have seen many strawberry cream recipes out there pushing that flavour up much higher due to it loosing flavour during steeping. 

I'm assuming how much you take out of the pre-steeped mix doesn't matter as it's all going to be 5%. So you would take equal amounts out of 5 different bottles if you were making a recipe thst used 5 different concentrates. 

And lastly would testing without nicotine be a problem? Im new and sticking with revipes at the moment, but I have made so many recipes that taste horrible or taste like water. I have used up half my bottle of nicotine and have not found a recipe yet that I enjoy. So I feel I'm wasting a precious commodity atm, considering the ban. And I'm trying to fathom how many bottles you have to buy to have a steeped version of your concentrates, nevermind having to store double the amount.

And honestly how many ppl started DIYing to just give up? I'm at the point where I'm just wanting to vape something really, really good. The commercial one shot juices are calling me louder and louder. But due to how much i spent on DIY stuff this month, I'll have to hold out.

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## alex1501 (13/6/20)

Lightbringer said:


> I have seen a few people say that they pre-steep concentrates.



The only form of "pre-steeping" concentrates that i know, is making your own "single-shots" and let them sit for a while.
You can make a "single-shot" for any recipe you like and use it when needed.
I'm not aware of "pre-steeping" single flavours.

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## takatatak (13/6/20)

Lightbringer said:


> I have seen a few people say that they pre-steep concentrates.
> 
> Now this makes sense in my mind because then as you are mixing a recipe you generally get a immediate true taste from what you are making.
> 
> ...


Hey there, so steeping concentrates does help them to blend with each other but the main thing with steeping is that you want the PG based flavourings to blend into the VG thoroughly. The viscosity of VG makes it take longer to absorb flavour compared to PG. It might save you a few days on the normal steeping time but it's not a major steeping shortcut.

Mixing at 70/30 VG/PG ratio with let's say 15% flavouring of pre-steeped concentrates would mean that only 15% of your finished mix is pre-steeped. You would still need to wait for the pre-steeped concentrates to blend into the base liquid.

The main advantage of mixing your concentrates into a one-shot is to simplify mixing... You could have a recipe containing 10 ingredients that's been pre-mixed.

When you then want to mix ready to vape juice you would just need the one-shot of your "pre-steeped" concentrates, VG and/or PG and/or pre-mixed base & nicotine if you vape with nic.

Let's say you mix 5g LB Vanilla Ice Cream with 5g TFA RY4 Double... You now have 10g of a one-shot.

If you then make 100ml of mixed e-liquid and use the full one-shot at what would be 10%, you're final mix would have 5% LB Vanilla Ice Cream and 5% TFA RY4 Double.

If you only mix 50ml and use the full 10ml one-shot, you're final mix would have 10% LB Vanilla Ice Cream and 10% TFA RY4 Double.

If you're not sure of the recipe you could always taste it without nicotine first and see what it's like before adding nic. Don't wanna waste nic on dud recipes as you said. I'd also avoid mixing highly rated recipes from years ago. They need the flavouring percentages adjusted for today's hardware. BTW, are you using sweetener?

Please feel free to ask more questions if you're not sure or if I didn't explain nicely

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## Lightbringer (13/6/20)

takatatak said:


> Hey there, so steeping concentrates does help them to blend with each other but the main thing with steeping is that you want the PG based flavourings to blend into the VG thoroughly. The viscosity of VG makes it take longer to absorb flavour compared to PG. It might save you a few days on the normal steeping time but it's not a major steeping shortcut.
> 
> Mixing at 70/30 VG/PG ratio with let's say 15% flavouring of pre-steeped concentrates would mean that only 15% of your finished mix is pre-steeped. You would still need to wait for the pre-steeped concentrates to blend into the base liquid.
> 
> ...



I have only been using (TFA) sweetener because a few recipes called for it. Came across a few that use (CAP) Super Sweet and will buy that with my next batch of flavours. But I'm only using sweetener if it's called for.

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## Puff the Magic Dragon (13/6/20)

Thanks for the info @alex1501 .

I am ashamed to admit that I have never considered mixing my own one-shots. I think that my old brain just "misfired" on this option.

I have several ADV type recipes which I mix fairly often. It would be way easier to mix up enough one-shot concentrates to make, say 500ml, and then use as needed.

My general procedure when mixing is to make around six 100ml juices at a time. I line up the concentrates for each recipe, in the order that the recipe uses, and then weigh out each one directly into the 100ml bottle. Finding each concentrate in my "filing" system is a real pain. What adds difficulty is if I need a popular concentrate in say three recipes and only have one bottle. I then leave gaps in the concentrate rows and have to remember where to slot them in after the first recipe.

Making a few bulk one-shots will mean that I can save tons of frustration and time. Weigh out the one-shot, add PG, VG and nic, and Bob's your aunty.

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## alex1501 (13/6/20)

Puff the Magic Dragon said:


> Thanks for the info @alex1501 .
> 
> I am ashamed to admit that I have never considered mixing my own one-shots. I think that my old brain just "misfired" on this option.
> 
> ...


You are welcome.
I'm mixing for 8-12 people for a few years now. Without one-shots prepared I would be lost, "stones", "trinities", and most frequent recipes must be always ready.

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## Puff the Magic Dragon (13/6/20)

I'm mad about :

https://alltheflavors.com/recipes/143364#the_trinity_vanilla_ice_cream_by_eyemakepizza

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## Room Fogger (13/6/20)

Lightbringer said:


> I have seen a few people say that they pre-steep concentrates.
> 
> Now this makes sense in my mind because then as you are mixing a recipe you generally get a immediate true taste from what you are making.
> 
> ...



Hi @Lightbringer , this is unfortunately part of going the diy route, you try so many things and end up with quite a number of “duds” or as it’s called, drain or bucket juice. That where it belongs, or in your worst enemy’s tank!

Here are some things I wish I knew when I just started out.

Read @RichJB guide on diy on the site, it will open your eyes and is a must read for anyone who starts this route. Link attached. https://www.ecigssa.co.za/a-diy-primer.t44442/
One shots is the easiest to start off with, until you get your taste sorted. See point 5 re quantities. The mixing percentages are a guideline only, tastes differ, and yes, after 2.5 years of mixing I made a “little” 300 ml mistake during lockdown, and now sitting with very muted flavour, based on suggested percentages _for my taste, _ but at least I can use it in a squonker without worrying about consumption too much, and rdta does improve the taste profile slightly vs rta or commercial coils.
Start with simpler 2 or 3/4 flavour recipes, this will give you a good indication of what is “lacking” to your palate, then you look for recipes that cater for this, or you adjust the one you use to incorporate it.
What tastes good for one may be the most vile taste for someone else, in my case, cantaloupe. Hence you may not be getting what you want from a recipe.
Your flavour concentrates degrade the longer you have them due to oxidation and if kept too long, you would have to dump them or up percentages to get a smidgen of taste. Don’t overbuy.
Try and find recipes that have as many flavors in common initially and mix and try them in 10 ml batches without nic, not a spot on but you can adjust if the nic does change the profile slightly, but I have not found this, it usually improves the taste imho. That way you don’t end up with too many concentrates that you will never use again. Don’t just judge it on the first try, I have revisited recipes later that now appeal to me, the 2nd or 3rd time around trying them.
There is no replacement for steeping in making a juice taste good, it has to blend mainly with the VG as per @takatatak , I do fruits for 2-7 days, puddings and bakery for 7-14 days, any cream or custard for at least 14-21 days, and tobaccos 21 -30 + days. This is the hardest part in the beginning, but if you vape a bit every 3 days or so while it steeps you will soon realize what a difference this can make.
Once you hit your sweet spot and find one that becomes a All day vape make your own one shots, just makes your mixing sessions easier and faster, but it still needs a dark corner for some days for the guys in there to get to know each other to your benefit.
It’s expensive to start, but eventually lots cheaper because you just replace your most used concentrates, unless you want to keep on mixing and trying new recipes, and for that you may need to buy more concentrates.
Read up on recommendations for a start, median and max % for the concentrates you use that are in a recipe, start low and work your way up when you tweak a recipe or want to develop your own and you will find out very fast what you want more of and what needs to go down again. Keep your notes on this handy! Not like me with initial pieces of paper all over and half get lost.
Check the recipe section on the site here, most are good for me, but I have also not liked all of them. ATF website is also great for recipes, I usually only look for and try ones that are 5 star with more than 1 review. 
Don’t give up, it’s great to mix yourself. And don’t think you have to develop your own recipes to be called a diyer, I only mix other people’s recipes and thank them for their selflessness every time I find one I like. And acknowledge them as the source, even if you change it say it was inspired by .........., motivates them to keep on publishing for all of our benefit.
Always treat yourself to your favorite commercial juice and have some on hand for those days you just can’t face that what you have mixed, you know what they say, another persons food always tastes nicer.
Enjoy your journey, it’s the most relaxing thing I can do and stress just vanishes.
Hope this will help you a bit, and it is by no means the be all and end all, just my 2c.

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## Patrick (15/6/20)

Puff the Magic Dragon said:


> Thanks for the info @alex1501 .
> 
> I am ashamed to admit that I have never considered mixing my own one-shots. I think that my old brain just "misfired" on this option.
> 
> ...



I concur with @Room Fogger and @takatatak and have nothing much to add. But, one thing has been remarkable during the lockdown. I've been revisiting one shots from 2018 and found most of them have stood up to the test of time. @Puff the Magic Dragon, if you use ELR, go the blue wrench, select Make a one shot and it will calculate the proportions needed to make it. One in particular that has survived beyond my wildest expectations is Guitari (https://e-liquid-recipes.com/flavorbase/1458173) which needs another week to talk to the VG, PG and nic and then is fresh as ever.

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## Silo (15/6/20)

Just thought I should add. I do something like pre-steeping in a sense. I make a bunch of single concentrates at higher %, sometimes not. It literally does steep this way because it is mixed with VG.

I don't do recipes, so if I feel like making something, I make it by mixing like that. But I have to say, when you mix different flavors, it might take a bit more steeping to blend.

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## takatatak (15/6/20)

Silo said:


> Just thought I should add. I do something like pre-steeping in a sense. I make a bunch of single concentrates at higher %, sometimes not. It literally does steep this way because it is mixed with VG.
> 
> I don't do recipes, so if I feel like making something, I make it by mixing like that. But I have to say, when you mix different flavors, it might take a bit more steeping to blend.


So do you then add this new pre-steeped VG based concentrate into your mixing calculator so that your final recipes have specific percentages or do you not follow recipes? Do you mix these new blends with one another to form new juices? More like a bartender and less like a scientist?

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## Silo (15/6/20)

takatatak said:


> So do you then add this new pre-steeped VG based concentrate into your mixing calculator so that your final recipes have specific percentages or do you not follow recipes? Do you mix these new blends with one another to form new juices? More like a bartender and less like a scientist?



I don't do the whole calculator scale thing I am not going to lie. It's flavors man. I feel it is more like working in the kitchen... I take a flavor, test it, work with it. Handcrafted limited edition every time It's like science these days, "WHAT EVER" do you mean?

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