# What Batteries are Recommended



## JackalR

Hey guys,

This post is very hard to type seeing as all I see is fog lol.

Current setup thats causing said hardship, Sigelli 150w @ 60 watts with dark horse clone dual coil 22g at 5 wraps each. Tester says I'm running at 0.12 ohm. Lowest Ive gone so far.

Question is I have 2 efest (purple) 2500mAH and 3 VTC4 batteries (cant remember what milliamp), it has been suggested that I get some proper high drain batteries but no one can suggest what. Seems to be some trade secret among cloud throwing pros.

Any suggestions as to what batteries I should be using with such a build

Thanks


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## Ashley A

I think Smurfs (Samsung 25R)

Reactions: Like 1


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## JackalR

where would i be able to get

** just checked vapeclub and they dont have stock


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## Ashley A

Most vendors sell them between R150 (if you take a few) and R190 each. I can't seem to find stock of them cheap at the moment though so looking at importing some but the shipping costs are rediculous if I want them fast so need to build up an order to distibute the cost


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## JackalR

thanks will keep an eye out


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## WHeunis

JackalR said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> This post is very hard to type seeing as all I see is fog lol.
> 
> Current setup thats causing said hardship, Sigelli 150w @ 60 watts with dark horse clone dual coil 22g at 5 wraps each. Tester says I'm running at 0.12 ohm. Lowest Ive gone so far.
> 
> Question is I have 2 efest (purple) 2500mAH and 3 VTC4 batteries (cant remember what milliamp), it has been suggested that I get some proper high drain batteries but no one can suggest what. Seems to be some trade secret among cloud throwing pros.
> 
> Any suggestions as to what batteries I should be using with such a build
> 
> Thanks



The VTC's that you already have is as high as it goes. But VTC4 and VTC5 batteries are becoming insanely hard to get.
The two next-nearests are smurfs (Samsung 25R), and the LG's are also on par (LG-HE2 18650 2500mah 35A). AW batteries are also good, but hard to come by in SA.
After those come the efests.
After that comes unsafe shit!

Personally, I think you might be cutting it very close building down so low on your coils; But that's me. I love my safety margins!

_EDIT: to clarify, you are putting around 22Amps of strain on your batteries. While the efests CAN handle that, its above what it's rated for in continuous output.

Another EDIT: To add on to that, in a regulated mod, the device itself overpulls by a certain "efficiency margin" from the batteries. So while 22A is accurate for straight power delivery, as a regulated mod, it is probably closer to 25A..._

Reactions: Like 2


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## Silver

Nice new avatar pic @JackalR 
Thanks 

All the best with your cloud blowing
Just be safe


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## JackalR

Thanks guys. Just trying it out. Will switch to my usual 0.3 build when this one is finished. 

I'm basically trying to find a safe build for cloud chasing with what I've got


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## Andre

The VTC4s are 2100 mAh and the best for the low resistance you are running. What you need to look at is the continuous discharge rating of the battery. The VTC4 is 30A, the Efest is 20A. At 0.12 ohms and 60W you are drawing almost 23A, which is way too high for the Efest.
The Samsung 25R is speculated to be around 22A.
The LG-HE2 is also 20A (the Efest is actually just a re-wrapped LG).

It is imperative for your safety that you get to know Ohm's Law. This is a useful site for the calculations: http://www.steam-engine.org/

My comments above based on the Sigelei batteries being in serial.

Reactions: Like 1


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## JackalR

So switch to my vtc4s and I'll be safer

Reactions: Like 1


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## WHeunis

JackalR said:


> So switch to my vtc4s and I'll be safer



Indeed!


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## WHeunis

Andre said:


> The VTC4s are 2100 mAh and the best for the low resistance you are running. What you need to look at is the continuous discharge rating of the battery. The VTC4 is 30A, the Efest is 20A. At 0.12 ohms and 60W you are drawing almost 23A, which is way too high for the Efest.
> The Samsung 25R is speculated to be around 22A.
> The LG-HE2 is also 20A (the Efest is actually just a re-wrapped LG).
> 
> It is imperative for your safety that you get to know Ohm's Law. This is a useful site for the calculations: http://www.steam-engine.org/
> 
> My comments above based on the Sigelei batteries being in serial.



Some reason I remember the LG's as 25A; Thanks for the correction!


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## stevie g

the Sigelei has a current limit of 40 Amp so you are fine with the efests don't bother getting other batteries unless you need more or new ones.


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## JackalR

Thanks guys. I'm just going by what's Micheal said. He uses efest batteries on his sub ohm builds.


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## Andre

Sprint said:


> the Sigelei has a current limit of 40 Amp so you are fine with the efests don't bother getting other batteries unless you need more or new ones.


I do not understand, please help - if the battery has a continuous discharge rating of 30A and you push the current to 39A, how does the current limit on the device help you avoid stressing that battery?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ashley A

Yip


JackalR said:


> where would i be able to get
> 
> ** just checked vapeclub and they dont have stock


That's also bought mine from them. Best price but stock is a problem and I have a hard time justifying paying R40 more each elsewhere when I'm going to buy a few.

I also like them because although they are rated at 20A continuous, they can push a 100A in a 1s burstfor high power short puffs which I haven't seen on another battery. 

I hear super things about the VTC5 if you can get it. Everything is more (the price too), except the availability


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## stevie g

the mod will prevent the amp draw to exceed 40A is my understanding, how it reaches the required watts is probably because it is a series mod and can boost voltage.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## stevie g

.15 build needs 6v to reach 60 watts with 20Amp draw limit. So 3V per battery at 20Amp is required on a series mod. Anyway the OP needs to go higher Ohms if he wants more watts.


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## Andre

Sprint said:


> the mod will prevent the amp draw to exceed 40A is my understanding, how it reaches the required watts is probably because it is a series mod and can boost voltage.


That I understand perfectly, but the mod will not prevent the battery from exceeding its continuous discharge rating (which is quite a bit below 40A), which is my concern.


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## stevie g

yes it will, it has a current limit. *edit*. The current limit exceeds the abilities of most batteries.


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## Yiannaki

Okay now I don't want to come across as being harsh here but I really want to bring something up here that I feel is important. 

@JackalR if you're building super sub ohm coils and still asking for battery advice, then you clearly don't know what you are doing bud.

It is also apparent that you don't have any knowledge of ohms law.

Anyone can wrap a coil and vape it but to understand what they're actually doing or how to vape safely requires some research before blindly going ahead and just doing it.

If big clouds are a thrill, it's not merely your build that determines the volume of vapor. The right atty, juice and exhale technique are also important. 

The important thing is to always be safe and have a firm grasp of what it is you're doing. The last thing you would want is a battery venting/ exploding on you at home or even in a public space. 

Just my 2 cents. Use it, don't use it.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


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## JackalR

That's why I went the regulated mod. As I said before this is just a tester build


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## Andre

Sprint said:


> yes it will, it has a current limit.


And that current limit is 40A, not 30A, which is the continuous discharge limit of the VTC4 - thus my original question in this regard.


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## stevie g

of 20Amp per battery hence the Efests being fine. Lower rated batteries might be a problem but all inferior batteries I've tried on a mod time out the chip with a low battery warning. The Board can sense when the battery cannot keep the current where it needs to be and cuts out.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## JackalR

Thanks @Yiannaki appreciate the advice. I generally go between 0.3 and 0.5 ohm

Reactions: Like 1


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## stevie g

remember series works differently to parallel


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## stevie g

series increase in power
parallel increase in runtime

that's what I gathered from the last battery thread I participated in with @johan


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## Andre

Sprint said:


> of 20Amp per battery hence the Efests being fine. Lower rated batteries might be a problem but all inferior batteries I've tried on a mod time out the chip with a low battery warning. The Board can sense when the battery cannot keep the current where it needs to be and cuts out.


This mod has the batteries in serial as far as I remember, so 20A it is whether one or two Efests. At 0.12 ohms and 60W the draw is almost 23A. That is above the safety limit of the Efest battery imo. Nothing you have said so far indicates that the mod will prevent this, in fact the OP has just said that he is vaping thus on the Efests.


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## stevie g

that is wrong because you are looking at it from a mech mod perspective. If you apply 6v to an atomizer built on .15 Ohms you are outputting 60 watts but only drawing 16.6A per battery.


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## Yusuf Cape Vaper

Series- voltage of batteries gets added. 2 batteries = 4.2v + 4.2v = 8.4v

Parallel- amp limit of each battery gets added and mah limit. 30A + 30A = 60A, 2500mah + 2500mah = 5000mah. 

This sigelie in question is a series box. It will cut out or show a reading that says battery low if it can not handle it. It's a series regulated device. Not unregulated, so much safer imo. You'll find that building a 0.2-0.3ohm coil and blasting it at high wattages will give you great clouds  good luck bud.

Reactions: Like 3


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## stevie g

Some of my understanding was incorrect but my premise is still right. However in series the amp draw does not double it remains that of one battery. Still the OP is still safe as he is drawing 16.6A. Thanks for the discussion @Andre I found a fault in my understanding but it has been fixed now.


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## Andre

Sprint said:


> that is wrong because you are looking at it from a mech mod perspective. If you apply 6v to an atomizer built on .15 Ohms you are outputting 60 watts but only drawing 16.6A per battery.


No, I am not looking at it from that perspective. According to http://www.steam-engine.org/ if you use volt then 6V on 0.15 ohms would give you 40A and 250W, which is even worse - barring the fact that the mod will not allow. I am just trying to get to the correct answer here.
Maybe @johan can help us out in the morning.

Reactions: Like 1


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## stevie g

@Andre go to steam engine.batt subsection, choose regulated apv, choose 60w, choose .15 then see the results


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## stevie g

also change the battery voltage to like 6 for instance because remember it is series and battery voltage doesn't have to be a maximum of 4.2 it can go double that.


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## Andre

Sprint said:


> @Andre go to steam engine.batt subsection, choose regulated apv, choose 60w, choose .15 then see the results


Ok, thanks, have done that. On 0.12 ohms still get 22.36A. Do, however, see that they have a "battery drain" section that gives a far lower amperage - 11.11A to be exact (they take the Efests as 35A). Not sure which is the correct one to consider in this case. I do now at least understand what you are saying, thanks. And know a lot more about this subject! With clearly more to know.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Yusuf Cape Vaper

Andre said:


> Ok, thanks, have done that. On 0.12 ohms still get 22.36A. Do, however, see that they have a "battery drain" section that gives a far lower amperage - 11.11A to be exact (they take the Efests as 35A). Not sure which is the correct one to consider in this case. I do now at least understand what you are saying, thanks. And know a lot more about this subject! With clearly more to know.


35A is the correct one to take as a Vaper. We aren't running torches or race cars to be continuous


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## johan

Sprint said:


> series increase in power
> parallel increase in runtime
> 
> that's what I gathered from the last battery thread I participated in with @johan




Series connection increase potential (Voltage), but current (Amps) the same as for 1 battery.
Parallel connection increase current (Amps), but potential (Voltage) the same as for 1 battery.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Q-Ball

Well, Vapeclub just got Smurfs in R300 for 2  

Sent from my SM-N900 using Tapatalk

Reactions: Like 1


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## Andre

johan said:


> Series connection increase potential (Voltage), but current (Amps) the same as for 1 battery.
> Parallel connection increase current (Amps), but potential (Voltage) the same as for 1 battery.


Thanks @johan. And what would that battery's current be at 0.12 ohms on the Sigelei 150W running at 60W?


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## Andre

Yusuf Cape Vaper said:


> 35A is the correct one to take as a Vaper. We aren't running torches or race cars to be continuous


That would be contrary to all the advice I have seen so far. The 35A is pulse discharge rating and is normally measured at 1 second pulse?


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## johan

Andre said:


> Thanks @johan. And what would that battery's current be at 0.12 ohms on the Sigelei 150W running at 60W?



No idea Andre, as I don't know how the Sigelei internal firmware does its calculations, whether its a step down buck or sepic regulator topology. But if it does an accurate calculation the current drawn from battery should be: 22.36A
I = square root of P/R
I = square root 60/0.12
I = 22.36A

Reactions: Thanks 1 | Informative 1


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## Andre

johan said:


> No idea Andre, as I don't know how the Sigelei internal firmware does its calculations, whether its a step down buck or sepic regulator topology. But if it does an accurate calculation the current drawn from battery should be: 22.36A
> I = square root of P/R
> I = square root 60/0.12
> I = 22.36A


Thanks. I thought so too, but @Sprint has patiently led me to questioning this now. If I input the above on the steam-engine.org Battery drain section I get the result below. Here they differentiate between "Atomizer - what hits your topper" and "Battery drain - what taxes your battery". From this language it would appear to me that the Battery drain numbers are to be used for purposes of battery safety in a regulated mod. In this case current is shown as 15.87A for a 22A, 2500 mAh battery, which leaves ample headroom. This would mean that the setup described by the OP would also be more than safe.
Am I missing something?


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## johan

@Andre at the end of the day we need full technical specifications of the specific regulated mod, before we can say battery A,B or C is safe to use, as each regulated mods internal workings differs from the next. For me personally the maximum current (A) I can draw safely from a battery is more important than the so called Drain numbers (mAh). If you want to "safely" use above on-line calculator it is imperative that you know the battery in question's C-rating.

Reactions: Thanks 1


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## Andre

Andre said:


> Ok, thanks, have done that. On 0.12 ohms still get 22.36A. Do, however, see that they have a "battery drain" section that gives a far lower amperage - 11.11A to be exact (they take the Efests as 35A). Not sure which is the correct one to consider in this case. I do now at least understand what you are saying, thanks. And know a lot more about this subject! With clearly more to know.


I put the above question to Baditude, the acknowledged battery expert on ECF, as follows:

_We have had a question on our little South African forum, which has resulted in conflicting answers. Turning to you, if I may, for an answer please.

Member is using a Sigelei 150W at 60W on a 0.12 ohms coil with Efest 2500 batteries. It seems to be common cause that the continuous discharge rating of this Efest is 20A. Question was: *Is it safe to use this Efest battery for said scenario.*

Going to the Battery Drain section of steam-engine.org the current draw is shown as 22.36A under Atomizer (what hits your topper), which clearly is too high for the 20A of the Efest.
But under Battery drain (what taxes your battery) the amperage is shown as 15.87A, which seems safe for the Efest under discussion.

Which one of these answers is the best to use when considering battery safety under said scenario?_

His answer:

_The purple Efest 2500mAh 35 amp battery is actually only a 20 amp continuous discharge rated battery when independently tested. Please see *Purple Efest Batteries Not as Advertised*. Using this battery for any sub-ohm use is way over its true specification and *NOT SAFE* to use below 0.4 ohms.

When figuring out the amp draw of a homemade coil using the Ohms Law calculator, I use only the "continuous discharge rating", not the "pulse" rating, as pulse ratings are usually different for different manufacturers and vendors so not reliable across the board. Continuous amp ratings are an industry standard across the board.

*Explain it to the Dumb Noob: Ohm's Law Calculations*

Please advice these vapers that they need to use a true 30 amp battery, which currently is only the Sony VTC 4/5 and purple Efest 2100mah 30 amp (a re-wrapped Sony vtc4). Coils should be made to at least 0.25 ohm for any battery on the market. Lower ohm coils are at user's own risk._

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Silver

Your question was well packaged @Andre

And thanks for sharing - as well as Baditude's answer

I wonder if using a regulated in some way makes it a bit safer?

But i like the outcome summary advice - stick to 0.25 ohms and above - and you'll be safe with the Efest 2500 mah.

@Yiannaki made me a 0.2 ohm coil on my Doge, which I fired on the Sig 100W at about 80W. Had two Smurfs in there (in series). Its not a pleasant all day vape, just for clouds - but i think I am going to make the ohmage a bit higher - and stay safe. Regulated or not. My Reo LP hasnt gone below 0.35 and is now at 0.5. My blackbird Reo doesnt go below 0.45. All with Efest 2500 mah. So good to know i am safe on that front.


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## Andre

Silver said:


> But i like the outcome summary advice - stick to 0.25 ohms and above - and you'll be safe with the Efest 2500 mah.


He actually says the Efest 2500 is not safe below 0.4 ohms, but his safety margins are very conservative, even for me.


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## Silver

Andre said:


> He actually says the Efest 2500 is not safe below 0.4 ohms, but his safety margins are very conservative, even for me.



Oops, sorry, my bad
That was hiim referring to the VTC4/5 and Efest 2100mah


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## yuganp

Does any of these high wattage devices have the batteries wired in parallel? This will allow each battery to supply half the required amps. There does not seem to be any batteries that can supply 150W on some of these mods if the batteries are connected in series.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Andre

yuganp said:


> Does any of these high wattage devices have the batteries wired in parallel? This will allow each battery to supply half the required amps. There does not seem to be any batteries that can supply 150W on some of these mods if the batteries are connected in series.


Quite a few mechanical ones (like the Dimitri), even seen one where you can switch between series and parallel, but have not seen a regulated one wired for parallel.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## VapingSquid

I'm really concerned about this now as I have just ordered a Sig150 and 2 x Smurfs...

I am wondering if I should have gone for 2 x Sony VTC4 instead, or Purple Efest 2500's

Shucks...Don't know what to do 

Some interesting forum reads here on the subject:

http://vapingunderground.com/threads/sigelei-150w-batteries-help.44520/

and

(near the end of the thread re Sony and Samsung)
http://www.reddit.com/r/electronic_cigarette/comments/2sfj4m/batteries_to_use_for_sigelei_150w/


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## zadiac

The smurfs will be fine. No need to worry. Just keep your coils above .2 ohms.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Andre

jl10101 said:


> I'm really concerned about this now as I have just ordered a Sig150 and 2 x Smurfs...
> 
> I am wondering if I should have gone for 2 x Sony VTC4 instead, or Purple Efest 2500's
> 
> Shucks...Don't know what to do
> 
> Some interesting forum reads here on the subject:
> 
> http://vapingunderground.com/threads/sigelei-150w-batteries-help.44520/
> 
> and
> 
> (near the end of the thread re Sony and Samsung)
> http://www.reddit.com/r/electronic_cigarette/comments/2sfj4m/batteries_to_use_for_sigelei_150w/


The Smurfs are great batteries. Personally I would not go below 0.25 ohms on them. In any event, your sweet spot for the Sig150 is 0.347 ohms according to steam-engine.org. Around there your Sig150 "will give you the optimal balance of power and adjustability without overburdening your circuit board". No need to go super low on a regulated mod - one of its main advantages over a mechanical mod.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## VapingSquid

Thanks for the replies.

I think I will be around 0.2 to 0.5 , but as you say, since it is regulated I can go in at higher ohms and higher wattages (the point of regulated devices).

I think I should pick up some more smurfs 


_Edit: So I though bugger it and just got 4 x VTC4's. Rather safer than sorry at all._

Reactions: Like 1


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## VapingSquid

So I just got my 4 x Sony VTC4's...I'm just wondering if they were actually worth it now over the Samsung 25R's 

Hmm...


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## MurderDoll

jl10101 said:


> So I just got my 4 x Sony VTC4's...I'm just wondering if they were actually worth it now over the Samsung 25R's
> 
> Hmm...
> 
> View attachment 23645




Cant go wrong with the VTC4.

I have 4 of them and I still see them as probably one of my best investments.

Reactions: Like 1


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## stevie g

I've run my 25Rs at 0.1ohm and they don't even get warm.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## free3dom

Sprint said:


> I've run my 25Rs at 0.1ohm and they don't even get warm.



Until they do...then it's bad news

Reactions: Agree 1


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## stevie g

for a battery to vent it needs to enter thermal runaway, ie you are going to notice your battery is getting quite hot before it happens.


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## free3dom

Sprint said:


> for a battery to vent it needs to enter thermal runaway, ie you are going to notice your battery is getting quite hot before it happens.



...is exactly the thought that runs through your head, right before your mod explodes

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2


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## stevie g

haha yea it can happen to one not mired in the ways of electronics.


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## stevie g

plus the samsungs have been hard shorted on purpose in one test i read of and which has a video on youtube... It didn't explode like a pipe bomb, it just swelled and leaked.


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## free3dom

Sprint said:


> plus the samsungs have been hard shorted on purpose in one test i read of and which has a video on youtube... It didn't explode like a pipe bomb, it just swelled and leaked.



It's never the battery itself that explodes (it expands)...it's the metal device it is encased in which causes the carnage.

Most modern cars are tested to be safe on impact at 60km/h....but would you personally drive a car into a wall at that speed?
Just because you can do something, does not make it a good idea to actually do it

Reactions: Agree 4


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## stevie g

vapers don't even use continuous discharge we use pulse discharge. People are being sensitive... Sure I don't want a noob to get hurt but these things aren't as dangerous as some made out. I wouldn't use a mech mod without adequate vent holes for super sub ohm builds though. Do you know of anyone that can handle more than a 10 second draw at 170+ watts?.


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## capetocuba

Andre said:


> The Smurfs are great batteries. Personally I would not go below 0.25 ohms on them. In any event, your sweet spot for the Sig150 is 0.347 ohms according to steam-engine.org. Around there your Sig150 "will give you the optimal balance of power and adjustability without overburdening your circuit board". No need to go super low on a regulated mod - one of its main advantages over a mechanical mod.


I never read that but been vaping my new billow at 0.3 ohms (per Sigelei 150W screen) and it vapes like a true legend


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## Andre

capetocuba said:


> I never read that but been vaping my new billow at 0.3 ohms (per Sigelei 150W screen) and it vapes like a true legend


Then that seems to be both sensible and enjoyable. Great stuff.

Reactions: Thanks 1


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## Silver

Sprint said:


> vapers don't even use continuous discharge we use pulse discharge. People are being sensitive... Sure I don't want a noob to get hurt but these things aren't as dangerous as some made out. I wouldn't use a mech mod without adequate vent holes for super sub ohm builds though. Do you know of anyone that can handle more than a 10 second draw at 170+ watts?.



@Sprint, if you are well versed in batteries and electronics, then obviously you will push the envelope

We however at ECIGSSA have tried very hard over the months to promote the idea of battery safety and vaping well within the limits, with enough safety margin. The reason for that is that many newer vapers turn to this forum for advice and information and we would hate for someone to say that they learnt from the people on this forum something that led to a major accident.

We prefer to err on the side of caution here. Please respect that.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 5 | Winner 2


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## stevie g

I respect that @Silver but I resent people presenting themselves as an authority on the matter. Obviously I have not advocated for unsafe practises, just related my own experience with batteries etc.


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## stevie g

one thing that kills me is people building low ohm coils on regulated mods. These mods require high ohm build so you can access the full range of wattage, there is no stepdown on the sigelei devices and most of the other devices so we have low ohm builds that wont be able to scale below the battery output. Makes no sense that someone ties themselves into a build that cannot vape below 50w for example.


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## stevie g

does anyone know if the Sigelei automatically cuts off @10s?.


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