# Vaping and driving



## Scott (18/5/17)

I recently mentioned to a number of colleagues that I have become an avid vape enthusiast and out of the blue I get asked for an opinion on the following facts: 
An accused is caught driving with a blood -alcohol concentration exceeding the legal limit. He at first denies consuming alcohol to the police and then in court raises the defense that he may have consumed alcohol inadvertently as he was at a party where friends introduced him to vaping. He loved it and tried a number of different blends. He left after a few hours and was stopped in a routine road block. He blew over the limit and blood tests confirmed the presence of excessive alcohol in his blood. He is now claiming that certain of the blends contained alcohol (probably vodka). He is claiming that this alcohol was consumed unknowingly and involuntarily. These are key elements of the offence. My immediate gut feel was that this was a fabricated defense by an experienced user of google.
Lets assume it happened as he explained. Is the alcohol not burnt away at ignition on the coil? Is the alcohol volume used sufficient to alter blood -alcohol levels significantly? Is the alcohol taste not obvious? 
I believe the matter is being treated confidentially due to his status no no negative publicity is anticipated.
Your opinions would be appreciated.
Scott

Reactions: Funny 4


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## RichJB (18/5/17)

Nice try but no, ahem, e-cigars.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## Stosta (18/5/17)

I think even when alcohol is present it is in such minute quantities that it certainly won't have an impairing effect on your abilities, and I'm fairly sure it won't show up in a roadside blood-alcohol test (a gross assumption mind you).

But yes, as @RichJB linked, and judge worth their salt is going to smile politely and tell you to enjoy your sentencing.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Scott (18/5/17)

Stosta said:


> I think even when alcohol is present it is in such minute quantities that it certainly won't have an impairing effect on your abilities, and I'm fairly sure it won't show up in a roadside blood-alcohol test (a gross assumption mind you).
> 
> But yes, as @RichJB linked, and judge worth their salt is going to smile politely and tell you to enjoy your sentencing.


Thanks that was my immediate opinion when asked. I believe this character has rushed home in a blind panic and either searched for or stumbled upon an eliquid recipe site and saw a reference to vodka and screamed hallelujah. I hope he gets the long stick at sentencing (and I will be putting in a "kind" word for him) as it's this type of crap that has the potential to give vaping a bad name.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## RichJB (18/5/17)

Vapers need to be very careful about what they attribute to vaping. If someone successfully argues in court that vaping caused them to fail a breathalyser, it's an open goal for companies to prohibit vaping in the workplace. 

This is the reason why we sit with vape gear being classified as "tobacco products" today. Vaping company Njoy had some vape devices imported from China confiscated by the FDA at Customs. At the time, the FDA had no jurisdiction over tobacco but claimed that the vape gear was "drug delivery devices". Njoy went to court and successfully argued that their goods weren't "drug delivery devices" but rather "tobacco products". Now the industry is up in arms because "our goods are classified as tobacco products but they contain no tobacco!" But Njoy's legal precedent allows regulators to smile and respond "Hey, it was YOU, not us, who insisted that these are tobacco products." So yeah, slim het sy eie baas geword.

Reactions: Informative 2


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## Feliks Karp (18/5/17)

Ask @craigb about vaping proper alcohol.

Since you have to drink on average 2+ shots to register on a breathalyzer I highly doubt that any day to day flavours are going to even give you a buzz drinking the juice never mind vaping it and setting off a alcohol test. I'd be more worried about obscuring your vision with aerosol.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## aktorsyl (18/5/17)

Isn't alcohol too volatile to persist through the heating & aerosolisation that happens in an atomizer?


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## craigb (18/5/17)

I can't comment on the chemical reactions happening when alcohol is vaporized, but I do remember during research for my previous experiment reading about a bar that did atomizer drinks... And the alcohol did enter your system. 

I can just attest to the fact I wouldn't want to be breathalyzed after taking a couple hits of whiskey vape made from proper whiskey. Not worth it.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## aktorsyl (18/5/17)

craigb said:


> I can't comment on the chemical reactions happening when alcohol is vaporized, but I do remember during research for my previous experiment reading about a bar that did atomizer drinks... And the alcohol did enter your system.
> 
> I can just attest to the fact I wouldn't want to be breathalyzed after taking a couple hits of whiskey vape made from proper whiskey. Not worth it.


Actually now I remember the stroh rum fume trick they used to do in college. And that still had a kick, eventhough it was on fire. So yes.


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## Scott (18/5/17)

craigb said:


> I can't comment on the chemical reactions happening when alcohol is vaporized, but I do remember during research for my previous experiment reading about a bar that did atomizer drinks... And the alcohol did enter your system.
> 
> I can just attest to the fact I wouldn't want to be breathalyzed after taking a couple hits of whiskey vape made from proper whiskey. Not worth it.


Most wise! They are going to hear expert medical testimony if the matter ever goes to trial so let's see what the boffins say. My experience in cooking recipes using brandy or sherry is that the alcohol is burnt off during the frying and that leaves only flavours.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Puff the Magic Dragon (18/5/17)

There is some debate about the size of a tot, but a good average would be 30ml. If you consume two tots you will be under the limit in SA. How would it be possible to vape over 60ml of spirits (after a few hours in the pub). Even if you vaped pure vodka it would require you to vape over 60ml of "juice". A lot of vapers vape less than 60ml in a week.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## craigb (18/5/17)

Puff the Magic Dragon said:


> There is some debate about the size of a tot, but a good average would be 30ml. If you consume two tots you will be under the limit in SA. How would it be possible to vape over 60ml of spirits (after a few hours in the pub). Even if you vaped pure vodka it would require you to vape over 60ml of "juice". A lot of vapers vape less than 60ml in a week.


My totally uneducated guess would be that vaping an alcoholic juice would get the alcohol into your system quicker than ingesting it. 

Not knowing how breathalyzers work, I would hazard the guess that even the slightest alcoholic vape might linger longer than imbibing it would by many orders of magnitude . Which would be probably be why blood tests provide a fallback if you are certain it's a false positive. Ideally the blood alcohol test would be indisputable (perfect world, Yada yadda)


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## BumbleBee (18/5/17)

We discussed a similar topic a little while ago, you guys may find this thread helpful...

https://www.ecigssa.co.za/vaping-and-breathalizer.t2718/#post-59377

Reactions: Like 3 | Thanks 2 | Informative 1


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## Stillwaters (18/5/17)

Once again, the forum provides good,honest and informative posts.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Scissorhands (18/5/17)



Reactions: Funny 1


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