# The Great Juice Cull of February AND SEPTEMBER, Two thousand and seventeen



## Rude Rudi (5/2/17)

So, after months of procrastination and deliberation, I did the unthinkable...I embarked on a juice culling operation on a scale not yet witnessed in this residence... 

The problem become apparent when I realised that I am never going to get through my DIY stash in my lifetime, even on my 5 new juices a day rotation system which admittedly fizzled out after week 2... In addition, I could not find physical space to store any new mixes as my DIY station was literally bursting at the seams!

I laid them out and to my horror, counted 168 bottles of juice... 80% of those being DIY... Something had to be done...and it had to be done now. 

I started off slowly by binning those I knew were utter crap but held on to them in the hope that they would magically resurrect themselves into world class masterpieces. These were real dogs and not even 5% menthol could save them! This batch included some of my earliest "work", founded on zero experience. These all sounded good at the time but alas, I had to concede... This lot accounted for 14 bottles.

I then selected a bunch of juices I was on the fence about - they weren't awful, but they were profiles I no longer enjoy or care for. I dripped a few to confirm my decision and happily put them aside. These included some mixes I made with subs and lesser known flavours I saw on forums and social messages pages - (hard) lesson learnt. Another 14...

Next up, the commercial juices. How could I ever toss these? After all, they are all commercial, "premium' juices - surely they can't be condemned to trash can? Well, they can. I have come to realise that the local Vape shop's house brand is after all just a cheap one or two ingredient concoction sold purely to novices and those with budgetary constraints... This included some with a high PG and or high nic level. I do not enjoy anything above 30% PG or 3% nic and after a quick taste, they joined the ever growing stash of soon to be departed cousins - premium or not! Another 10...

Next batch on the chopping block: the testers....those 10ml little buggers you tasted once 2 months ago and always commit to go back to but never do so as the next batch of samples take preference and soon enough, you sit with a pile of tasters, piling up by the week. By now, the selection process became much easier... I was picking them off like a first person shooter decapitating an army of zombies.
I culled with great abandon and before long, another 23 were added to my pile!

This was undoubtedly a liberating experience and I urge you all to do it. Forget about the sentimental emotions you may have towards your stash of unused juice...Just do it!

I now have space, spare bottles, a selection of juice I actually Vape and off course the valuable knowledge gained from my DIY journey.


All told, I culled 61 bottles of juice. 











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## Silver (5/2/17)

Well done @Rude Rudi !
Very well told
Loved reading it

I know what you mean about the sentimental emotions attached to older juice (not DIY in my case) and gear for that matter. Its so tough to part with things one has fond memories of.

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## Andre (5/2/17)

Total empathy from my side!

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## rogue zombie (5/2/17)

168 :0

I start getting ocd when my collection gets to 30 bottles.



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## Greyz (5/2/17)

Lol that was a great read @Rude Rudi! I had a good laugh reading that.
Luckily I have friends and a brother that vape. They help cull my DIY juice that built up on a regular basis 

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## RichJB (5/2/17)

168 bottles! That's 101 more than me, and I thought mine were getting out of hand. I'm getting things under control, though. I very rarely do testers now, using whipped cream tests instead. That cuts down bottles, PG, VG wastage because I very rarely vape all 10ml of any tester.

I'm sticking to my resolution of no (or very few) new flavours. And then I'm not making any recipes that use esoteric/rare flavours which aren't used widely. Donkey Kong's Barrels could be the greatest juice in history, I'm not buying TFA Red Oak for it. I still have some flavours like FA Apricot and Cap Jelly Candy which I want to try but it's only a small handful now. By year's end, I want to have 12x 100ml ADV bottles in my steeping cupboard, the concentrates needed for them (and only those concentrates) in my kit, and then I'm done.

I'm also not restocking any flavours I use up unless it's in an ADV. This requires discipline. I had no problem ditching TFA Silly Rabbit or Hawaiian Drink permanently, those flavours blow. But now we get to things like FW Butter Pecan. I like the flavour and I've liked several juices I've made with it, like Rusty Pelican and Caramel Pecan Cheesecake. But they haven't made my ADV list and I can live without them. I'm down to about 3ml of Butter Pecan left. So do I restock it? With a heavy heart, I have to say no, unless one of the Butter Pecan juices I have steeping but haven't tried yet (Butter Back, Bust-a-Nut, Southern Butter Pecan Gelato) turns out to be an ADV.

I want a quick throughput of selected flavours to negate concerns of concentrate aging, and I'm getting there. I just restocked Cap VC and SC, TFA Cheesecake GC and VBIC recently - and all are nearly finished again! Compare that to FA Marzipan, Anise and Cardamom, where I'm still sitting with 9ml of bottles I bought six months ago. That's why I won't buy Red Oak. I just know that concentrate is going to gather dust.

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## Strontium (5/2/17)

RichJB said:


> With a heavy heart, I have to say no, unless one of the Butter Pecan juices I have steeping but haven't tried yet (Butter Back, Bust-a-Nut, Southern Butter Pecan Gelato) turns out to be an ADV.



Bust a nut is pretty good, if anything is going to change you mind it has the best chance.

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## RichJB (5/2/17)

I'm quite hopeful about the Southern Butter Pecan Gelato too, I generally like Barrett's stuff. He's a good ole Southern boy, if anybody knows how to make a Southern dessert with pecan, he should. Or Manson, but he doesn't seem too keen on pecan recipes.

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## Rude Rudi (6/2/17)

RichJB said:


> 168 bottles! That's 101 more than me, and I thought mine were getting out of hand. I'm getting things under control, though. I very rarely do testers now, using whipped cream tests instead. That cuts down bottles, PG, VG wastage because I very rarely vape all 10ml of any tester.



I will give that a go!!!!

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## The_Ice (6/2/17)

Rude Rudi said:


> I will give that a go!!!!


@Rude Rudi @RichJB What is the whipped cream method? sounds like a good solution to an age old problem

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## Rude Rudi (6/2/17)

The_Ice said:


> @Rude Rudi @RichJB What is the whipped cream method? sounds like a good solution to an age old problem



It's a method in which you mix a droplet of the flavour with plain whipped cream to give you the true taste of the final mixed product. I have not ventured into this as yet - perhaps Richard can give more detail on the quantities, etc

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## RichJB (6/2/17)

@The_Ice, it is a technique that is apparently quite widely used in the flavour industry. Whipped cream is a good way to get a representation of how a flavour will vape. As the cream is so light, it sorta acts like vape in your mouth. Some flavour mixers use water but that is too dense to represent vapour.

You just get a can of whipped cream, dispense a large blob of it into a tablespoon or egg-cup or somesuch, drop two drops of the flavour into it, swirl it a bit, and then put the whole lot in your mouth. Swirl it from side to side, inhale and exhale through your mouth and nose, move it around in your mouth and you'll get a good feel for the flavour's characteristics. It doesn't work with all flavours, but it's generally quite effective.



It won't give you a standalone percentage. But what good is a standalone percentage if you'll be using the flavour in a mix? If all the flavours in your mix are added at their ideal standalone percentage, you'll get a horrible over-flavoured mess.

Generally, I have an idea of percentages by the brand. I mean, you're not going to be adding FA or Inw at 8%. So I'm more interested in finding out if it's a candy or natural flavour, sweetness or tartness, the general taste profile, etc. And it can be pretty bang-on. When I tested Loco's Rose, I detected a chalkiness in the cream test. Sure enough, it was there in the vape as well. So even texture is often well represented in the cream tests. I like it to get a ballpark of the flavour without having to vape through 10ml of it - or vape 2ml and toss the other 8ml. No steeping either, you can test and make notes on the flavour five minutes after getting it in vapemail.

You might think that the cream flavour would interfere with the concentrate flavour. But it's almost like your brain separates the two. Anyway, it probably won't work for everybody but it works for me. Give it a bash and see if it helps.

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## Dietz (6/2/17)

RichJB said:


> @The_Ice, it is a technique that is apparently quite widely used in the flavour industry. Whipped cream is a good way to get a representation of how a flavour will vape. As the cream is so light, it sorta acts like vape in your mouth. Some flavour mixers use water but that is too dense to represent vapour.
> 
> You just get a can of whipped cream, dispense a large blob of it into a tablespoon or egg-cup or somesuch, drop two drops of the flavour into it, swirl it a bit, and then put the whole lot in your mouth. Swirl it from side to side, inhale and exhale through your mouth and nose, move it around in your mouth and you'll get a good feel for the flavour's characteristics. It doesn't work with all flavours, but it's generally quite effective.
> 
> ...



Thanks for this!
I cant keep a straight face when seeing that clip

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## RichJB (6/2/17)

Nobody can. 

Wayne said it on his last podcast: dude, if you mix, you're a nerd. You can try not to be. But you are.

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## Dietz (6/2/17)

Rude Rudi said:


> Next up, the commercial juices. How could I ever toss these? After all, they are all commercial, "premium' juices - surely they can't be condemned to trash can? Well, they can. *I have come to realise that the local Vape shop's house brand is after all just a cheap one or two ingredient concoction sold purely to novices and those with budgetary constraints...* This included some with a high PG and or high nic level. I do not enjoy anything above 30% PG or 3% nic and after a quick taste, they joined the ever growing stash of soon to be departed cousins - premium or not! Another 10...


I bought a few house brand juices from one of our local VShops and Gave ended up giving them all away. I wont say that they are horrible, but as you say "*cheap one or two ingredient concoction". *As in most cases, it goes back to "You get what you pay for"

I really started enjoying cooking a few years ago and since then I rarely go to Restaurants as Ive noticed I can make a better or more Satisfying 'Real' meal myself... At home... for less than what Id pay for and Ive noticed the same thing with my DIY juices Vs Some local house brands.

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## Rude Rudi (8/2/17)

A good find during The Great Cull, was a bottle of Mother's Unicorn Milk I made in August last year...
Wow!!! This baby developed into a juice of note - talk about a long steep!

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## Rude Rudi (24/7/17)

So, after some frenetic mixing, experimenting and flavour testing over the last couple of months, the time has come to perform another cull!!
With so many new flavours landing on our shores over the last couple of months, my stash of experiments and new mixes exploded - I found myself mixing about 10 new recipes a week (minimum). This mass mixing has unintended consequences: one person cannot possibly keep up with the amount of juice to vape vs the number of hours in a day... Demand and supply imbalance...

So - thanks to ANOTHER power cut , I plucked up the courage on Saturday and raided my ever increasing juice stash... 
The objective - whittle it down to a more manageable herd...easy peasy 

My previous, epic & brutal, cull laid a solid foundation and taught me some of the basics of culling:

If you don't like it - toss it. 
Experiments and recipe development fails - toss it. Rather start over than trying to adjust here to adapt it there.
It's just juice

I bid farewell to some sentimental hopefuls including the dreaded Carrot Cake, the cursed Turkish Delight and the damned coffee (of any description here). Please don't mention Horchata...I tried to like it, I really did 

In total, I said goodbye to 61 (coincidence) juices which I just could not see myself vaping over the next couple of weeks...

On the upside - I now have 61 spare bottles to try the latest and greatest recipes, soon to (possibly) be culled in 6 months = such is the life of a DIY'er...

Happy mixing!

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## aktorsyl (24/7/17)

Rude Rudi said:


> On the upside - I now have 61 spare bottles to try the latest and greatest recipes, soon to (possibly) be culled in 6 months = such is the life of a DIY'er...


On the downside, you now have 61 bottles to wash 

#thestruggleisreal

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## Rude Rudi (24/7/17)

aktorsyl said:


> On the downside, you now have 61 bottles to wash
> 
> #thestruggleisreal



Thank goodness the dishwasher made this task rather painless...!




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## Andre (24/7/17)

Rude Rudi said:


> So, after some frenetic mixing, experimenting and flavour testing over the last couple of months, the time has come to perform another cull!!
> With so many new flavours landing on our shores over the last couple of months, my stash of experiments and new mixes exploded - I found myself mixing about 10 new recipes a week (minimum). This mass mixing has unintended consequences: one person cannot possibly keep up with the amount of juice to vape vs the number of hours in a day... Demand and supply imbalance...
> 
> So - thanks to ANOTHER power cut , I plucked up the courage on Saturday and raided my ever increasing juice stash...
> ...


You have my full empathy. 

I too make a lot of recipes posted by others, which pique my interest. A few I might tweak off the bat according to my personal preferences, e.g. tweak it to not have to use sweetener. When tasting same I rarely come across any, which I do not like at all (the benefit of some experience). I shall vape around 4 to 5 ml before I make a cull decision. Those not culled I might tweak a bit more when mixing again. Those culled, which are all good and vapeable juices, just not fully satisfying my taste buds, immediately go into a box for a forum mate. Some fruity ones go to the daughter in law.

My supply problem is all the great juices, which have made the cut. Too many to vape. I shall have to stop mixing or cut down drastically.

Experiments and my own recipes are, fortunately, very few - maybe 2 to 3 per year. Those versions and failures are tossed - not for public consumption at all.

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## Strontium (24/7/17)

Haha I never cull, if I make it i vape it no matter how nasty (except Loco Blueberry)

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## Huffapuff (24/7/17)

Rude Rudi said:


> the cursed Turkish Delight


I haven't given up on this one yet, but getting the right gummy base is a killer challenge!

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## Rude Rudi (25/7/17)

Huffapuff said:


> I haven't given up on this one yet, but getting the right gummy base is a killer challenge!



If you do, please share!!!

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## Glytch (25/7/17)

Strontium said:


> Haha I never cull, if I make it i vape it no matter how nasty (except Loco Blueberry)



I'm in your camp. Try my best to vape everything I mix. If it's unvapeable and mix it with another unvapeable juice and repeat with left overs of good juice till it just tastes like "generic ejuice"

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## Rude Rudi (18/9/17)

Let it be known, that on Sunday, 17 September 2017, another Epic Cull was carried out in the Johannesburg municipal area. The cull superseded all previous culls and goes down as the most brutal to date.

In all, 68 previously loved e-liquids saw their demise down the great sewerage system of the greater Johannesburg water infrastructure.

The selection process was simple - If I have not vaped or tested it in over 4 months (excluding juices currently steeping) it's the end of the road... Cheers, adios, arrivederci, ciao, sayonara, totsiens and good riddance...

I bid farewell to many testers and flavours which I have simple not touched in months. As my DIY journey have progressed, so have my palate. I see no point in keeping juice if I know I don't like it (any more). Besides, I now have space and fresh bottles to mix up those recipes which I know, with experience, that I will enjoy. 

Happy mixing...!

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## Rude Rudi (18/9/17)

I might add that my drains have never worked this well... 6 odd bottles of menthol type liquids cleared any possible drain blockage know to man!

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## Silver (18/9/17)

Ouch @Rude Rudi

All the best for the lighter load on your mixing tray and freeing up all the bottles

But man, next time, maybe we should somehow scientifically distribute this juice.
I can just imagine there are probably some winners flowing down the drain

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## Rude Rudi (19/9/17)

Silver said:


> Ouch @Rude Rudi
> 
> All the best for the loghter load on your mixing tray and freeing up all the bottles
> 
> ...



I considered this but I was not comfortable with subjection the public at large at some of these concoctions!

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## John King (2/10/17)

What a awesome read! Had a good laugh as well...

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