# Freebase



## Andi de Jager (2/6/20)

Okay so I was running out of juice (i was vaping 30mg salt in a mtl setup) until I found 4 bottles in the cottage that my parents rent out. The old tennant (who is still in stuck in Zim because of lockdown) said I could have them. They are 50mg salt nic and all half full and are now running out. Today I managed to scrounge some nic from a friend who mixes but they don't know what kind of nicotine it is. So I'm just going to assume it's freebase because freebase is a lot harsher and I don't want to mix something too harsh. So my question is: I'm used to the "throat hit" (or lack thereof) of 50mg salt nic. What would be the equivalent in terms of harshness for freebase? What's the highest freebase level I can go before it becomes unpleasant?

TL/DR: I'm used to the "throat hit" (or lack thereof) of 50mg salt nic. What would be the equivalent in terms of harshness for freebase? What's the highest freebase level I can go before it becomes unpleasant?

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## Feliks Karp (2/6/20)

It depends what you are vaping on, people are probably going to ask that before giving advice.

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## ivc_mixer (2/6/20)

I would say about 18, max 20mg, but that is just a general assumption based on the knowledge of freebase nic.

What I would suggest is, again based on an assumption that you will be making your own juice now, mix a 10ml bottle sampler of about 18mg. Test it. If you can handle the throat hit, push it to 21mg. Test again. And so you repeat with increments of about 3mg each time until you find the level at which you feel the throat hit is too much or you hit the peak of nic level you want to vape at (seeing as you used to vape at 30mg initially, maybe max out there) and then you revert back to the previous level where you were okay with the throat hit. But do not go and make a 100ml bottle yet. Make another 10ml, test again, then only you make a 30ml bottle and then a 100ml bottle.

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## Andi de Jager (2/6/20)

Feliks Karp said:


> It depends what you are vaping on, people are probably going to ask that before giving advice.


Hi there! Am vaping on the Hellvape MD MTL RTA.

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## Andi de Jager (2/6/20)

ivc_mixer said:


> I would say about 18, max 20mg, but that is just a general assumption based on the knowledge of freebase nic.
> 
> What I would suggest is, again based on an assumption that you will be making your own juice now, mix a 10ml bottle sampler of about 18mg. Test it. If you can handle the throat hit, push it to 21mg. Test again. And so you repeat with increments of about 3mg each time until you find the level at which you feel the throat hit is too much or you hit the peak of nic level you want to vape at (seeing as you used to vape at 30mg initially, maybe max out there) and then you revert back to the previous level where you were okay with the throat hit. But do not go and make a 100ml bottle yet. Make another 10ml, test again, then only you make a 30ml bottle and then a 100ml bottle.


Hi there! Many thank you' s I will definitely give that a shot. Again, thank you!

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## Timwis (2/6/20)

ivc_mixer said:


> I would say about 18, max 20mg, but that is just a general assumption based on the knowledge of freebase nic.
> 
> What I would suggest is, again based on an assumption that you will be making your own juice now, mix a 10ml bottle sampler of about 18mg. Test it. If you can handle the throat hit, push it to 21mg. Test again. And so you repeat with increments of about 3mg each time until you find the level at which you feel the throat hit is too much or you hit the peak of nic level you want to vape at (seeing as you used to vape at 30mg initially, maybe max out there) and then you revert back to the previous level where you were okay with the throat hit. But do not go and make a 100ml bottle yet. Make another 10ml, test again, then only you make a 30ml bottle and then a 100ml bottle.


Yeah, i wouldn't argue with that when testing 10mg nic salts found throat hit compared to freebase between 3mg and 6mg so about 4.5mg, when i tested 20mg nic salts the throat hit compared to 9mg freebase and the highest mg nic salts i have tested were just too much for me and the equivalent of 18mg was 40mg salts so working out the maths 21mg sounds about right for 50mg nic salts but would also advise starting at 18mg and taking it from there!


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## Silo (2/6/20)

I once did a 12mg freebase for someone, they and a few others compared to 50mg nicsalts, said the freebase was quite a bit more harsh.

But it wasn't my nic, and I also found that specific nic to be surprisingly harsh. Think it was scrawny gecko, usually I use prime nic.


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## Chickenstrip (2/6/20)

I Vape 35mg salts and I can’t handle anything higher than 8mg freebase, but I’m on a very restricted DL device so take it with a pinch of sodium.

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## Lingogrey (2/6/20)

Andi de Jager said:


> Okay so I was running out of juice (i was vaping 30mg salt in a mtl setup) until I found 4 bottles in the cottage that my parents rent out. The old tennant (who is still in stuck in Zim because of lockdown) said I could have them. They are 50mg salt nic and all half full and are now running out. Today I managed to scrounge some nic from a friend who mixes but they don't know what kind of nicotine it is. So I'm just going to assume it's freebase because freebase is a lot harsher and I don't want to mix something too harsh. So my question is: I'm used to the "throat hit" (or lack thereof) of 50mg salt nic. What would be the equivalent in terms of harshness for freebase? What's the highest freebase level I can go before it becomes unpleasant?
> 
> TL/DR: I'm used to the "throat hit" (or lack thereof) of 50mg salt nic. What would be the equivalent in terms of harshness for freebase? What's the highest freebase level I can go before it becomes unpleasant?


Hi @Andi de Jager;

You said that the person who you got the nic from does not know what kind of nicotine it is. Are you (or your mixer friend) positively sure on the nic concentration (in miligrams - The nicotine commonly available in South Africa would usually be in 36 mg / ml, 48 mg / ml, or 100 mg / ml concentration).

Knowing at least this information would be crucial for mixing. If you use eg. 100 mg nic thinking that it's 36 mg, the results could be disastrous (if you use 36 mg thinking that it's 100 mg, you won't get much satisfaction. However, at least it won't be dangerous).

Other useful knowledge to have would be whether the nic is PG or VG based. Not knowing this could throw off your mixing ratios considerably (especially when using 36 mg nic to mix a high nic juice)

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## Silo (2/6/20)

Lingogrey said:


> Hi @Andi de Jager;
> 
> You said that the person who you got the nic from does not know what kind of nicotine it is. Are you (or your mixer friend) positively sure on the nic concentration (in miligrams - The nicotine commonly available in South Africa would usually be in 36 mg / ml, 48 mg / ml, or 100 mg / ml concentration).
> 
> ...



This is actually really important. Would test dilutions, to test the strength!

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## Chickenstrip (2/6/20)

Lingogrey said:


> Hi @Andi de Jager;
> 
> You said that the person who you got the nic from does not know what kind of nicotine it is. Are you (or your mixer friend) positively sure on the nic concentration (in miligrams - The nicotine commonly available in South Africa would usually be in 36 mg / ml, 48 mg / ml, or 100 mg / ml concentration).
> 
> ...



Over rated. You’re not going to die from vaping 100mg nic for a puff or two. It’s not going to kill you if you spill a little on your hands. When you start getting to manufacturing levels of 1000mg/ml that’s when things get dangerous. I think the chances of them getting nic that isn’t 36mg are extremely low. Don’t scare them. They should mix as if it’s 36mg and adjust down if necessary.

They are on mtl. Worst case they have a small choke and cough.

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## Lingogrey (2/6/20)

Chickenstrip said:


> Over rated. You’re not going to die from vaping 100mg nic for a puff or two. It’s not going to kill you if you spill a little on your hands. When you start getting to manufacturing levels of 1000mg/ml that’s when things get dangerous. I think the chances of him getting nic that isn’t 36mg are extremely low. Don’t scare the guy. He should mix as if it’s 36mg and adjust down if necessary.
> 
> He’s on mtl. Worst case he has a small choke and cough.



I agree that it most likely will not kill you, but nic poisoning is a thing - especially if it triggers underlying medical conditions (and I do know, reliably, of people who have had to receive urgent medical treatment from spilling 100 mg nic on themselves, and not immediately washing it off). There is a continuum of danger beween harmless and certainly lethal.

I also agree that 36 mg nic seems to be by far the most common concentration widely available locally (48 mg / ml is only available locally as a product from Gold Nic - stocked by only one vendor afaik. 100 mg / ml is only available to the public from 2 vendors afaik). That does make it likely that the nic that she has would be 36 mg, but not certain by any means.

I was / am not trying to scare her. I was providing info that could make an important difference in vaping experience and safety, to do with as she wishes (and it is quite likely that the info was unnecessary - as she might know this already. If so, redundancy hasn't harmed anyone. Better to have it out there, in case).

There is no need to be scared, but due caution is usually not a bad idea.

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## Silo (2/6/20)

WOOH YEAH NIC! Till you seen some high school children look like Covid cases...


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## Silo (2/6/20)

Chickenstrip said:


> Over rated. You’re not going to die from vaping 100mg nic for a puff or two. It’s not going to kill you if you spill a little on your hands. When you start getting to manufacturing levels of 1000mg/ml that’s when things get dangerous. I think the chances of him getting nic that isn’t 36mg are extremely low. Don’t scare the guy. He should mix as if it’s 36mg and adjust down if necessary.
> 
> They are on mtl. Worst case they have a small choke and cough.



I would seriously just test it, it is easy enough. And then he'll know what he wants maybe save some nic/flavors and mixing annoyances.

I am sure OP would probably be fine vaping high freebase, as they are used to 50mg nicsalts. I have seen bad reactions, though not from frequent high nic users. Caution is best.

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## Andi de Jager (3/6/20)

Hello there, OP here, the concentration is 36mg yes. It is in pg as well. The brand is just the word VAPE (but the E is backwards) I will be using an online mixing calculator as well. It's the one from e-liquidrecipes.com and it seems very detailed. I will start at 18mg as suggested and mix 10ml of that and work from there. Just need to wait for the flavour concentrates to arrive. I just want to say thank you to everyone who has taken the time to respond to my question. Everyone has been so helpful! Thank you.

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