# From the SA Budget speech 2020



## M.Adhir (26/2/20)

"In line with Department of Health policy, we will start taxing heated tobacco products, for example hubbly bubbly. The rate will be set at 75 per cent of the rate of cigarettes. Electronic cigarettes, or so-called vapes, will be taxed from 2021. "

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 4 | Optimistic 2


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## JPDrag&Drop (26/2/20)

Great news for now, but depends what they will tax us with next year

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Willyza (26/2/20)

Yip it had to come, so what is it going to be per ml or per Neg ?
Will fall under SIN TAX for sure 
so I believe it's not going to be cheap

Reactions: Like 2


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## Resistance (26/2/20)

There is a loophole. We will find it and we will tell everyone!!!! Whahaaaahahaha

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 1


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## Resistance (26/2/20)

M.Adhir said:


> "In line with Department of Health policy, we will start taxing heated tobacco products, for example hubbly bubbly. The rate will be set at 75 per cent of the rate of cigarettes. Electronic cigarettes, or so-called vapes, will be taxed from 2021. "


Not you or your post. They are optimistic.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Adephi (26/2/20)

I don't see whatthe issue is. The industry is so small I would be surprise if they will be able to milk us for R50 mil. And doesn't even cover an overseas holliday for one of the leeches.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## DysectorZA (26/2/20)

https://ewn.co.za/2020/02/26/sin-taxes-rise-again-and-now-vapers-will-also-have-to-pay-more

So is this tax hit for vapers happening this year? Or next year?

Will it be taxing only e-juice with nicotine in it? What about 0mg nicotine e-juices?

Or will the new taxes be on all e-cigarettes products, like atomizers, mods, coils, cotton, wire, batteries, etc.?

I guess I might need to start investigating some DIY soon. Damn!

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Adephi (26/2/20)

DysectorZA said:


> https://ewn.co.za/2020/02/26/sin-taxes-rise-again-and-now-vapers-will-also-have-to-pay-more
> 
> So is this tax hit for vapers happening this year? Or next year?
> 
> ...



I'm so tired of every f'ing article about this that state that "vapers and users of e-cigarettes paid no tax for their vice". We have been paying VAT like any retail product out there! Just now they want to slap sin tax ontop of it as well.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## M.Adhir (26/2/20)

Sin tax is around R17. 50 on a 20 pack of cigarettes.

Reactions: Like 1


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## M.Adhir (26/2/20)

Adephi said:


> I don't see whatthe issue is. The industry is so small I would be surprise if they will be able to milk us for R50 mil. And doesn't even cover an overseas holliday for one of the leeches.


I hear you.
I think one of the bigger issues that will come into play is that retail/ exit prices will increase. I dont foresee consumers getting the longer end of the stick in this.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Timwis (26/2/20)

When the time approaches no doubt like when the TPD came into force (to do with compliance of new regulations not tax) in the EU people will stock up before the taxes come into force. We got lucky in that regard because we had websites and vaping shops full of stock that would not be able to be sold after the date of the TPD coming into force so products like large bottles of e-liquid containing nicotine and nicotine itself was near enough being given away. I still have 72mg nicotine left over from then, 1 opened in the fridge and 2 250ml bottles in the freezer. At the time i bought 6 250ml 72mg bottles for a grand total of £9 and 60ml e-liquids at £1 a bottle.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dela Rey Steyn (26/2/20)

If they are taxing it, they are not getting rid of it. So it is a win in my book for Vaping in SA. 
Pricing on juice has gone down radically in the past few years, we are paying for a 120ml what we paid for a 30ml back then. 
We are still very fortunate with regards to vaping in SA when you look at other countries.

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 3


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## Timwis (26/2/20)

Dela Rey Steyn said:


> If they are taxing it, they are not getting rid of it. So it is a win in my book for Vaping in SA.
> Pricing on juice has gone down radically in the past few years, we are paying for a 120ml what we paid for a 30ml back then.
> We are still very fortunate with regards to vaping in SA when you look at other countries.


It just shows a lack of understanding from Governments adding a sin tax like on cigarettes it's like saying they are the same thing, luckily in the UK the Government are actively backing vaping along with Health England, it's funny now when walking into a supermarket where all the cigarettes used to be displayed on shelves have been replaced by vaping products in really nice glass fronted lighted display cabinets while the cigarettes are not allowed to be displayed and if someone asks for cigarettes one of the drawers underneath the vaping product displays is unlocked (yes the cigarettes are even locked away) to get the pack wanted. It really is designed to make smokers feel shameful about their habit while saying come look at all this wonderful vaping stuff surely you would rather take the healthier option. Asking for a packet of cigs now in the UK would i imagine feel like going into a video store and asking if they had any X rated under the counter!

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 1


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## Adephi (26/2/20)

Timwis said:


> Asking for a packet of cigs now in the UK would i imagine feel like going into a video store and asking if they had any X rated under the counter!



Come now @Timwis , we all know video stores doesn't exist anymore. Chrome incognito and Pornhub are your friends. So I hear.

Reactions: Funny 4


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## MrDeedz (26/2/20)

On a more serious note is the petrol price going up tonight? lol. I dont listen to that k@K on Tv anyway, We are an embarrassment on live TV as a country lol

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 1


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## Adephi (26/2/20)

MrDeedz said:


> On a more serious note is the petrol price going up tonight? lol. I dont listen to that k@K on Tv anyway, We are an embarrassment on live TV as a country lol



Next week.

Reactions: Like 1 | Thanks 1


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## Hooked (26/2/20)

DysectorZA said:


> https://ewn.co.za/2020/02/26/sin-taxes-rise-again-and-now-vapers-will-also-have-to-pay-more
> 
> So is this tax hit for vapers happening this year? Or next year?
> 
> ...



The heading of the above article is once again an example of the ignorant media, who has no idea what vaping is and categorise *anything* that is not a traditional cigarette as vaping e.g. hubbly-bubbly. I think the media should be slapped with a hefty fine every time they relay inaccurate information!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

The full text of the budget speech can be read here
https://www.iol.co.za/business-repo...e-minister-tito-mbowenis-full-speech-43518527

It clearly states that "in line with Department of Health policy, we will start taxing heated tobacco products, for example hubbly bubbly. The rate will be set at 75 per cent of the rate of cigarettes. *Electronic cigarettes, or so-called vapes, will be taxed from 2021." [my highlights]*

Directly from the horse's mouth and exactly as quoted by @M.Adhir in the first post of this thread. 

Bottom line: Do not ever trust media* headlines*. Their one and only purpose is to draw attention. Take the time to read the full article or go to the source for information.

Reactions: Agree 6


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## ARYANTO (26/2/20)

''A packet of 20 cigarettes will be an extra 74c, while a 25 gram of piped tobacco and a 23 gram cigar will cost an extra 40c and R6.73, respectively.''
What is that ?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## DysectorZA (26/2/20)

Thanks @Hooked

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Resistance (26/2/20)

Ecigssa if and when. This does happen. Go to a Dr. And get a medical certificate for vaping as a smoking cessation.(might not have explained it right but,you get the point) then we as vapers would have all the right to use vaping as a prescription medication.
The vendors just have to find a loophole to sell it then. By that time they would have figured that part out.
Or we can just wait ten years with the right president and cabinet before this is really enforced. Unless the new guy enforces this to make a name and didn't come up with bylaws yet and that's where the loophole still lies.


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## DougP (26/2/20)

Hooked said:


> The heading of the above article is once again an example of the ignorant media, who has no idea what vaping is and categorise *anything* that is not a traditional cigarette as vaping e.g. hubbly-bubbly. I think the media should be slapped with a hefty fine every time they relay inaccurate information!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> The full text of the budget speech can be read here
> https://www.iol.co.za/business-repo...e-minister-tito-mbowenis-full-speech-43518527
> ...


Just more on that. The IQoS system also falls into this category and is now taxable. 

The guys at Phillip Morris must be throwing their toys out the cot because they get taxed as of now whereas our type of vaping dodges the bullet this year. 
Gonna be interesting to see what exaclty will be taxed on the IQoS. Will it be just the tobacco sticks or will the device be taxed to. 

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## DougP (26/2/20)

Resistance said:


> Ecigssa if and when. This does happen. Go to a Dr. And get a medical certificate for vaping as a smoking cessation.(might not have explained it right but,you get the point) then we as vapers would have all the right to use vaping as a prescription medication.
> The vendors just have to find a loophole to sell it then. By that time they would have figured that part out.
> Or we can just wait ten years with the right president and cabinet before this is really enforced. Unless the new guy enforces this to make a name and didn't come up with bylaws yet and that's where the loophole still lies.


Bear in mind there is a revised tobacco control bill pending approval and implementation. This bill covers all forms of vaping to include juices, both nic and no nic, as well as devices.. Once implemented this will completely lock down the vaping industry into legislation across the board.

The question to be asked.

Does the new legislation need to be implemented to be able to do effective taxation.
If so I fear we gonna see the new legislation implemented in this year to cater for the controlled taxation next year. This new legislation alone is gonna bring sweeping changes to the vaping industry 

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## Adephi (26/2/20)

Blends Of Distinction said:


> Just more on that. The IQoS system also falls into this category and is now taxable.
> 
> The guys at Phillip Morris must be throwing their toys out the cot because they get taxed as of now whereas our type of vaping dodges the bullet this year.
> Gonna be interesting to see what exaclty will be taxed on the IQoS. Will it be just the tobacco sticks or will the device be taxed to.
> ...



If you look at the current way in which the sintax is implemented and we take for example pipe tobacco. The tobacco gets sintaxed but not the pipe itself. Therefor I don't think the devices itself will be taxed but the juice will. 

I think they extended it for a year in order to figure how this will work for pod devices and all the other different devices we find in the vaping rabbit hole. 

And then we get to DIY if they will even look at it. My advice will be is to stock up on nic. If there is something they will tax that would be it.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 3


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