# Losing the vaping debate.



## Alex (15/4/16)

*Losing the vaping debate.*
by MIT Brickman in Reason. April 5, 2016








_(Part 1 of 3)_

*First, understand that you’ve been framed.*
There’s a saying in politics, business, media, and marriage that essentially goes like this, *whoever frames the argument, wins the argument*.

The theory is this, if you can successfully confine debate to just one component of the larger issue, you can distract the participants into a never-ending circle jerk. Eventually, everyone becomes so passionate about winning one isolated point that the larger context becomes invisible. This is also known as a _red herring _– a pickled fish that is so pungent, it becomes distracting.

You met me in my previous essay here. As an adult who vapes to manage my nicotine in a significantly safer way than cigarettes (as opposed to those who may customize devices, build coil art, film their fancy vape rings, or socialize by hanging out in hazy strip mall vape lounges), I admit that I paid very little attention to the burgeoning “industry” as a whole. And I paid even less attention to its critics and detractors. After all, I had bills to pay, children to raise, and a very demanding job. That, and I’m old enough to remember when there was no internet, no cell phones, and no MTV; so I’m not all that hip and the current _vape lifestyle_ didn’t appeal to me. I’m just a guy who stops by one of my local “electronic cigarette” shops every couple of weeks to grab more liquid, avoiding conversation, and generally breathing as little of their fog as possible.

Then two things got my attention.

The first was that the business park where my office was located added the phrase _This Includes Electronic Cigarettes_ to the bottom of every standard No Smoking sign – inside and out. Then, my health insurance premium went up at renewal because I had mentioned to my family doctor at some point during the year that I “vaped”. This apparently led me to receive some kind of electronic Scarlet (_or Tobacco-colored?_) Letter in my medical record which defined me as a _Tobacco User_.

When I questioned the added prohibition of vaping in No Smoking areas, I was told that it “just _looked_ like smoking.” When I argued the _significant_ differences and even emitted a wisp of butterscotch smelling vapor in front of the property management executive to prove my point (who dramatically recoiled as if I had just shit on her desk), she attributed responsibility for the change to the faceless _they_ who always seem to be imposing their anonymous will on our society. There was nothing she could do, she said. And no, apparently _they_ do not have phone numbers.

Trying to deal with the medical system about my _Tobacco Letter_ was even more frustrating. While getting transferred from one useless _Member Services Representative_ to the next, John Candy’s _Del Griffith_ from _Planes, Trains, and Automobiles_ kept repeating in my head, “You have a better chance of playing pick-up sticks with your butt cheeks than getting these people to listen to reason.”

*So, what the hell happened?*
As quickly as I had those experiences, I began seeing obviously coordinated anti-vaping sentiment everywhere. Suddenly _electronic cigarettes_ were being reported in the news as _just as toxic_, if not _more so, _ascombustible cigarettes; every politician was suddenly shaking a fist and vowing to save society from their _harm_; every “vaper” seemed to be exploding; evidenced by photos of them looking grimly from hospital beds and saying, “I thought this was supposed to be a _safer_ option.” Really? My much less harmful nicotine management tool was now_ just as bad_ as the things that _everyone _knows will either kill you outright, or leave you dragging an oxygen tank around until you die; either from COPD or by becoming a wheelchair-bound human torch after _flicking your Bic_ while breathing pure oxygen? Hell, any quick internet search will show that_ every_ device containing rechargeable batteries has experienced their moments in the media, including even the photos of grim laptop or cellphone victims lying in hospital beds. That hadn’t been _my_ experience with vaping at all. I had been successfully obtaining vaporized nicotine for several years with no ill effects, and certainly no fires or hospital visits. Was I one of the lucky ones? A statistical outlier – like those anecdotal two-pack-a-day smokers who eat lard by the spoonful, play Russian Roulette for cash every Friday night at the senior center, and still live to be 125?

_Shit!_

For my own health and well-being as a “_vaper_“- I _had_ to look into this new Public Health hysteria. After all, if the new anti-vaping press releases _were_ correct, it would drive me back to the seemingly _safer_ tobacco cigarette, right? Which was a concept that had me wondering what ******* _bizarro world_ I had woken up in. And if they _weren’t_ correct, then Public Health was guilty – _either by ignorance and near-criminal irresponsibility, or absolute evil intent_ – of actively disparaging what could be the most significant public health revolution since…_ever_.

Over the next twelve months of research, I discovered what I thought were two important things: the Public Health crusade_ was_ being directed with evil intent (although some of the unwitting participants _think_ they are doing the right thing), and the second…is that the growing electronic cigarette / vaping industry carries more than just a little blame for the current debacle. (Partly unintentional and to be expected with any societal innovation, and partly because the early trend-setters had a really, _really_ bad strategy. _More on this in Part II.)_

You see, the faceless _they_ have been able to successfully frame the vaping debate in the context of _cigarettes_ – *which society rightly hates*. Thereby catching the majority of vaping supporters in the trick bag of _unwinnable_ arguments – the definition of _tobacco products_, regulations against _vaping locations_, increasing _age requirements_, _taxation_, etc. And you wonder how it is that you can write emails, make phone calls, and give impassioned speeches in legislative chambers – from city councils to the offices of congress – providing both facts and personal perspectives, only to be continually steamrolled by unanimous votes against you. I, myself, am guilty of getting caught in that whirlpool. Political action and debate were my initial responses to seeing Goliath teeing up against my tiny vaping David. So I _get_ it. But that’s when I realized that I had fallen for their tactic.

Please go back and read the first line of this essay before continuing.

*Follow the Money to Find Who They Are.*
I have no interest in boring you (_or myself_) by including reams of data, footnotes, and supporting documentation – because everything that I found is freely available online to anyone with an internet connection and the ability to type the word_ google_. And there are far more intelligent people than me sharing the facts freely – scientists, researchers, university professors, physicians, public servants, and even some current and former public health officials; men and women of integrity who see fit to share truth, even if it goes against the government/media/tobacco and pharmaceutical company talking points.

Suffice to say, vaping _quality_ liquids using safe, _unaltered_ devices is between 95%-100% safer than burning cigarettes and sucking in the smoke. Furthermore, cigarette smokers who either reduce their smoking, or (_ideally_) quit altogether by vaping, will be _healthier, happier_, and _more productive_ human beings. And if this happens on a large enough scale, the societal benefit – with regard to public health and economics – will be staggering. From _that_ perspective, our future could look like a postcard from Fiji.

So how does _money_ and _evil intent_ fit into the anti-vaping sentiment? Several ways. First, the incredibly wealthy and powerful tobacco conglomerates (usually just called _Big Tobacco,_ and strangely run by the bad guy from every old silent movie; twisting his mustache and laughing maniacally as he ties some poor woman to the train tracks) stand to lose_ everything _to modern vaping. *You mean I can get nicotine, a hand-to-mouth motion, and a satisfying inhale/exhale…all without killing myself or everyone around me?* Why the _****_ would I ever buy another cigarette? That’s how _that_ one goes. And since mustachioed Big Tobacco has already admitted in a court of law that he _knows_ that his product kills people and that he _doesn’t care_, need I really work to prove evil intent on that front?

As an aside, I can at least professionally respect an honest evil like Big Tobacco. I mean, he walks right up to you, punches you in the face, and says, “I am going to kill you and your family because the money is _so goddamn good_ that I can afford to have my conscience surgically removed _and_ buy a yacht.” I obviously wouldn’t invite him to join my bowling league…but at least I know what I’m dealing with.

That brings me to the second fundamental way that money and evil intent influences the _Great Vaping Debate_. Here’s an illustrative example that is unfortunately real. The California Department of Health funds the _Still Blowing Smoke_ campaign, to _educate_ the general public about the _dangers_ of electronic cigarettes and vaping. To convince the public – which, based on polling trends, it* is* doing – that you might as well keep smoking cigarettes. Essentially, they want the vaping alternative dead on arrival. By actively disparaging a less harmful alternative to cigarettes, they are ultimately _promoting_ continued cigarette use, correct? Especially if a smokers’ other options (education, gums, patches, prescribed drugs, public shaming, Twinkies, etc.) have all proven mostly ineffective or similarly harmful. It’s important to point this out because several years ago, the State of California _borrowed money against their future anticipated revenue from cigarette sales_. To put it another way, they took out a loan on a shiny new car and put up the money that they would _someday_ receive on cigarette sales as collateral. Then (_cue the gasps_) cigarette sales in the Golden State began a downward trend…oddly as vapor product sales were climbing at roughly the same but opposite rate. When it came time to start making payments on the car loan, California discovered that there was no longer as much money coming in from cigarette sales as they had originally forecast.

Guess what happened next? Right, the State began a campaign to demonize vaping. When there are no_ effective_ alternatives available, smokers will smoke…and smoke means money. A lot of it.

I have obviously simplified this a bit, but the point is valid. And California is not the only state that did this, nor are they the only ones dependent on cigarette sales for revenue. There is a long list of municipal, state, and federal agencies, as well as various health and educational groups, who rail against tobacco while simultaneously paying for their groceries, rent, and Netflix – at least in part – with tobacco sales money. And many of these agencies and organizations are the voices shouting the loudest against vaping as an effective, less-harmful alternative to cigarettes.

It is clear that there is a coordinated effort to keep cigarette smokers on the same cash-spewing merry-go-round that they have been on for years. Which is absolutely despicable, dare I say _evil_, considering the health and economic consequences of it…_especially when there is an alternative_. To further the tragedy, public_ servants_, pharmaceutical companies, healthcare systems, and even non-profit _health advocacy_ groups are complicit with Big Tobacco in this game of cash for the certain death _of people they don’t know_.

So when you see public health agencies, perfectly-coiffed politicians, talking heads in the media, medical associations, and newspaper editors all disparaging vaping with little-to-no-facts and the exact same key phrases (i.e., “To protect our youth”, “It leads people back to cigarettes”, “It re-normalizes cigarette smoking”) – you can actively assume that they are following the same playbook.

I think it’s ******* _evil_, _cowardly_, and based on institutional and individual _greed_. And what of those folks who happen to be supporting the anti-vaping “movement” out of _good intentions_? They are ignorant and innocent – but still wildly destructive; like a toddler who finds a loaded pistol under the couch.

There is good news though. _Great_ news, in fact. Victor Hugo once wrote, _On résiste à l’invasion des armées; on ne résiste pas à l’invasion des idées – _commonly paraphrased as *no one can resist an idea whose time has come*. No government, no politician, and no industry. Remember that automobiles, airplanes, cellular phones, and digital music were all initially attacked by the “experts”, by the legislators, by those they threatened to make obsolete, and by the _general public_.

Vaping has the potential to benefit society on human and financial scales that _dwarf_ previous innovations. Because it’s not about _convenience_, it’s about keeping millions of family members, friends, neighbors, and coworkers _healthy, productive,_ and _alive_.

_Shame_ on anyone who fights thisinnovationout of greed or ignorance. And you know what? S_hame_ on those who dominate the current “vape industry,” _continuing_ to make it about cloud competitions and tits; that’s like using a new _Macbook_ to drive nails into a board. I’ll address _that_ in the next installment.

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## Alex (15/4/16)

*Being your own worst enemy.*
*



*

(Part 2 of 3 – read part 1)

*Ahead of the curves.*
“Sir, you’ll need to stop smoking that here,” the airline employee spoke quietly to the man sitting across from me at the gate. He was a younger guy, sporting a full,_ Grizzly Adams_ beard, skinny jeans, and square tipped shoes that made his feet look _huge. _He had been boredly flicking a thumb across his iPhone screen and openly puffing away on an electronic cigarette. I had been thinking that his behavior was a_ little_ bold; the uncomfortable glances from the other travelers awaiting our California-bound flight were pretty noticeable. This was in 2011 and they may not have known what _exactly_ he was puffing on – but it was clear that he was violating _some_ rule of public decorum that undoubtedly existed. Hell, even _I_ – as a person who doesn’t mind confrontation for good causes – only dared to vape in the bathroom stalls while at the airport. You have to know where and when you’ll _actually_ make a difference by taking a stand, right?

Anyway, I anticipated a muted response from the gentleman. He looked like some tech nerd Silicon Valley executive; I’m pretty sure his jeans cost more than my luggage. He exhaled vapor and said, “**** you. It’s not smoke and there’s no law against it.”

Okay then.

I share that story because I have recently discovered that the exact same _vaping is my right, so screw you_ attitude has somehow made its way from random, contrarian individuals to what seems to be the vape “industry.” And although I _obviously_ agree that vaping is a *95-100% less harmful* alternative to cigarette smoking, I’ve been around long enough to know that you can only selfishly taunt the_ establishment_ for so long before you end up in the cross-hairs. And to be honest, I’m a little pissed off that, by now getting involved and trying to support the health and societal benefits of vaping, I am also – in effect – being associated with how the industry is perceived today. I support you in having the ability to manage your nicotine in a much less harmful manner; I do not support your tendency to be an asshole.

To be clear, I have all of the respect in the world for visionaries and innovators in _any_ industry, and those who recognized the potential of vaping technology back in 2007 (or before) are no exception. They realized that smokers hated the smell, the smoke, the ash, the health challenges, and the constant criticism from others – and that vaping was a _legitimate_ alternative. I honestly believe that those early entrepreneurs only screwed up in _one_ primary way – they used words that were associated with the tobacco world in their slogans, products, and businesses names. *Smoke*, *smoking*, *cigarette*, *cigs*, (even the old grand-daddy *e-cigarette*) cause confusion and guilt-by-association. In that way, I guess the industry framed _itself _from the beginning; in trying to quickly associate their product with something familiar in the consumer’s mind, they also set the foundation for the current misunderstandings and hatred.

In case you think that I am starting to sound like nothing more than a critical armchair quarterback, I _will_ admit that *no one* should fault those early visionaries. Hell, if _I_ had been starting a business to sell a completely unique new product, _of course_ I would try to put it into some sort of context that a consumer was already familiar with. Even _with_ the perspective of the current regulatory and PR challenges, this is a completely forgivable misstep. But it’s also the reason that we shouldn’t _continue_ doing it. Why do I keep seeing marketing and advocacy for the vape industry still associating it with clear _smoking_ terms?

As a quick aside, another pet-peeve I have in this situation is those self-righteous, anti-vaping _warriors_ who sit around guzzling wine or lighting up joints, and criticizing those who are dependent on _nicotine_. You know who you are, you’re hypocrites, and you _suck_.

Back to my airport douche with the attitude – whom some of you may have actually cheered for. I can respect, and definitely understand society’s occasional need to rise up and demand that the_ establishment_ makes a change. But that shit only works if the change is _worthwhile _to_ humanity_. If the establishment is oppressing individuals because of how they were born, people_ will _stand up with you_._ If the establishment is oppressing individuals because they _look_ a certain way, people_ will_ stand up with you_._ If the establishment is suppressing or maligning a new discovery that will improve the health and quality of life for _millions of family, friends, _and_ neighbors,_ society _will_ go out and _shut down freeways _with you.

But to boldly demand your right to vape at the gate while waiting for a plane? Society will tell you to shut the _****_ up.

So lets take a brief look at the score. You’ve got a technology that initially appealed to cigarette smokers who were tired of the health risks and social stigma associated with tobacco. You’ve got some early users who quit smoking and realized they could _sell the devices_ to others like themselves. Online and brick-and-mortar stores started appearing; either catering to those specifically looking for _electronic cigarettes_ because they already knew about them, or educating cigarette smokers about this much safer alternative. Either way, it was about providing health and/or social benefits to the community. _Cool_, I can get behind that. In fact, I _did_.

I started sharing my vaping experiences with every cigarette smoker who I happened to be near; you can always tell them by the yellow finger-tips, raspy voices, and constant look of guilt while in public. I gave away many of my own devices (if I really liked you), or I told you where to get your own. I was not an entrepreneur and I had no financial interest in people vaping; I suppose I became somewhat of an accidental activist. And in the meantime, I just continued on with my life; kids, job, car payment, vaping – same as many of you, I imagine.

Then I had the experiences that I explained in my previous post and realized that – seemingly out of nowhere – the _entire world_ was against vaping. What the _hell_? A society that made motorcycle riders wear helmets, gave clean needles to heroin addicts, and showed second-graders how to properly put condoms on – _all in an attempt to reduce the risks associated with known human behaviors – _was now aligned against a technology that could positively improve community health to a degree _never before even imagined._

*Tits McGee for the defense.*
My own first step in a personal quest to bring _reason_ to the _establishment_ was to attend a city council meeting. I had read that the council was going to discuss the defining of _electronic cigarettes_ as _tobacco products_. Changing the definitions of words to push _any_ agenda was _far_ too close to George Orwell’s _1984_ for my comfort. That, and I vaped and knew that the next steps would inevitably be over-regulation and taxation. As I sat in the parking lot of the council chambers, vaping and finishing my coffee, a noticed a number of BMW, Lexus, and other higher end cars pulling into the lot. Young men in shiny suits, slicked back hair, and emitting monstrous clouds of vapor stepped out; accompanied by girls with too much make-up, and too little clothing.

I glanced at the council agenda, hoping that there was _something_ else on there that would have brought out these ghosts from my senior prom. Alas, no. They were clearly there for the same reason I was. Then I discovered that the _anti_-vaping crowd – _who had apparently arrived much earlier because they had taken all of the seats directly in front of the council, probably so their handmade signs would be more consistently visible_ – were just the opposite; not nearly enough make-up, and far too many clothes.

One after the other, members of the public got up to address the council. First, crazy cat lady #1 said she was a life-long activist for the American _Something_ Association and urged the city in the strongest possible terms to ban vaping _and_ smoking outright. Next up, one of the _Miami Vice_ kids. He spoke passionately of his right to vape _wherever_ and _whenever_ he wanted, because there is _no smoke_, _no second-hand smoke_, and that vaping was _awesome_. (I’m paraphrasing, but you get the idea.)

When crazy cat lady #2 got up to speak, she had a visual presentation to accompany her three minute monologue. “Here we have photos of a vapor shop selling to clearly underage children, and the next slide is that same shop’s social media post calling out kids at a local school to get their vaporizer supplies at a discount.” And it went on and on. At the end of her 240 long seconds, I was as low in my seat as possible. The meeting hadn’t even been _about_ vaping and children; it _was_ now. Crazy cat lady #3 (who seemed to know several of the council members on a first-name basis) then passed around blown-up printouts from social media outlets showing women in lingerie (at _most_) holding vaping devices between their breasts, some with liquid bottles lined up on their asses. “_This_ is what vaporizing is about,” she said. “How can anyone say _this_ is about health?”

The clerk then called on one of the Lost Girls, who carefully navigated her spiked Lady Gaga-_esque_ heels down the stairs to the podium, breasts bouncing and barely contained by the fabric of her dress. She kept flipping her hair and loudly chewing gum as she read (rapidly and with no apparent punctuation) from a report on the lack of particulates in exhaled vapor. She was followed by a guy who provided sales statistics indicating that the majority of vaping liquids he sold contained either 3 milligrams of nicotine, or none at all. He concluded that they were not, therefore, _tobacco products_. Sales stats? You mean, these were the local vape shop _owners_? Are you ******* _kidding_ me?

Ultimately, the council ended up decimating the reputation of vaping in their city – which the local papers gleefully reported. Vaping was to be considered tobacco, and was to be restricted everywhere that cigarettes were. I knew one thing right away; if I was going to continue trying in my own little way to urge reason in this debate, I would need to _really_ look at what the industry had developed into while I was happily vaping away and living my life. Otherwise, I could potentially get blindsided again, right?

*Hardcore.*





Have you ever seen that 1979 movie where George C. Scott plays a conservative Midwesterner who had to navigate California’s underground porn industry in search of his runaway teen daughter? That was _me_ looking into the vape industry with an outsider’s perspective. Okay, maybe that’s a _little_ dramatic, but as an adult professional who had been vaping solely for harm reduction purposes, investigating the image, advertising, and culture that was the most _visible_ component of the vaping world – I was highly disappointed.

Save for some exceptions (and it’s quickly obvious who they are), it looks like the industry is dominated by snickering twelve year-old boys, dangerously narcissistic girls, and opportunistic carnival barkers. And people wonder why the general public and the lawmakers show no respect. They’re trapped between douchebags in the airport, sponsored vape athletes (_vapeletes_?) who think blowing rings is a marketable skill, and liquid manufacturers who apparently believe that stuffing a 30ml bottle into a girl’s butt crack will convince you that ‘vaping is for you.’ Gosh, why aren’t the _forty million_ mature, hard-working, cigarette-smoking Americans jumping onto _that_ ******* circus train? And do you actually expect career politicians and health agency directors to put their reputations on the line to support a _vape jellyfish_? _(Now, if one of you figures out how to blow a vape _poodle_, or a vape _Notre Dame Cathedral_, then we _might_ have something.)_

For those who don’t have the time (or the interest) in looking into the industry’s current image, here is my five point summary; developed after _many months_ of reviewing daily social media, vape magazines, vape conventions, and vape shops:


Look at my (_or my girlfriend’s, or a model I wish was my girlfriend’s_) tits, ass, lingerie, or lips while vaping demurely.
Look at the bottle of liquid and unique device in my hand as I drive (or walk, or ride a bike, or play Xbox, or stand menacingly on a railroad trestle, or…).
Look at this coil of wires that I made. Now look at it when it’s hot. Now look at it when it cools and turns colors.
Look at me inhaling a bunch of vapor and blowing a monstrous cloud; I may even measure it, or do it simultaneously with someone else to see whose is bigger. I can also blow vape rings, big _and_ little. And I’m on a competitive vaping team where we do all of these things against other teams for free shit.
Look at the liquid that I manufacture in my garage and market specifically to get the attention of Intellectual Property attorneys, so they can sue me and take my parents’ house.
Look, I _know_ I’m being harsh; I _get_ that you are just having fun. But I suspect that vaping may just be a _fad_ for the majority of younger folks who are currently doing it; it’s just the _Furby_, _Tickle Me Elmo, _or_ MySpace_ of the moment. If you don’t vape to avoid cigarettes, or if you have 150+ watt devices stuffed into each front pocket, or you get together with friends in a garage (or parent-funded vape shop) to chase clouds, then you _will_ eventually lose interest. And if you are allowed to continue _defining_ the vape industry, then we (as a society) are going to lose millions of opportunities to actually help people who struggle with cigarette smoking.

Tobacco harm reduction is not a game, and turning this technology – this potential _lifeline_ for people and their families – into a freak show, significantly weakens the chances of it being accepted by the general public and the health community.

*Taking back the industry.*
I’m sorry, but we need to take it back. And I challenge the legitimate business owners, investors, harm-reduction supporters, manufacturers, marketers, and former smokers whose lives have been improved through vaping (a.k.a. _paying customers_) to take the lead. Vapor companies, you should read a book on _strategy_ for ****’s sake, and _stop focusing on the current fringe to make quick cash_. Instead, look to that future _mass_ market – those millions of _adult smokers who just want to stop smelling like burnt shit, getting winded walking to the car, and ******* drowning in their own obliterated lungs. That’s _where the future of vaping is. From a _business_ perspective, you are stepping over dollars to pick up pennies, and from a _humanity_ perspective, you are _allowing_ human beings to die, out of _your_ own ignorance. In that respect, many of you may be no better than _Big Tobacco_, _Big Pharma_, and _Public Health_ agencies. Ask yourself, how would your stores, products, marketing, and advocacy look _different_ if you were _actually_ focused on saving the lives of cigarette smokers?

Additionally, every day that you continue neglecting to professionally present vaping as a way to improve the _quality of life_ and _health_ for adults dependent on combustible cigarettes, you are adding _months _or_ years_ of work to the CASAAs, SFATAs, AVAs, Greg Conleys, Cynthia Cabreras, and Clive Bates’ of the world – who try to unwind shitty regulations, clarify misunderstandings, educate the general public, and oppose that small army of crazy cat ladies, who are _always_ more than happy to show up and highlight the stupid shit done by those who have hijacked vaping. And at what cost? Smokers who may have tried vaping_ today_ if it had been presented positively, will continue to light cigarettes and shake their heads at this stupid fad.

I guarantee that those who stand to gain the_ most_ from the failure of the vape industry _definitely_ have a strategy. And they know that their corporate survival is at stake in this war for cigarette smokers, gum chewers, and patch wearers. _You_ have a significantly more compelling mission on your side, one that can motivate the general public to change the _establishment_; you _can_ win this. But _not_ if you continue to let teenagers, cloud chasers, ass models, kitchen-sink liquid mixers, and 200 watt device manufacturers speak for your industry.

And _definitely_ not if you continue to let your opponents frame the debate.

source: https://mitbrickman.com/2016/04/12/being-your-own-worst-enemy/
_*Coming soon:*_

*Part III: Winning your right to live.*

Reactions: Like 3 | Winner 4 | Thanks 1


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## Alex (15/4/16)

Reserved for Part 3

Reactions: Like 1


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## Stosta (15/4/16)

Printed for a good read!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dave1 (15/4/16)

Thanks

Really enjoyed reading that while waiting for a virus scan to finish.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Arno "NoxFord" Steyn (15/4/16)

Wow Alex that's a really Good read fine sir. I must say before I got into vaping full time I did some research as well and also found a lot of false statements all over linked to vaping and I even asked friends allot about it and no one ever knew anyone that had any issues with it

Reactions: Like 1


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## Andre (15/4/16)

I agree with the author. There is a place and a time for cloud blowing and the like, but scantily clad women on juice bottles or promotional material can be harmful to our cause imo.

Reactions: Agree 4


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## WARMACHINE (15/4/16)

Very true analogy of the vape industry becoming a little sordid. It looked very underground to me when I was on the outside

Reactions: Agree 2 | Can relate 1


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## Lord Vetinari (15/4/16)

Sounds like things look a lot different over that side. I do not know many people that will chase clouds in public or get in any bodys face. Stealth vaping is fun it bothers no one.

I have also not seen a bottle in a womans butt crack looool.

More mature over here really. Then again I dont really use social media at all.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Nightwalker (15/4/16)

Well done on the find

Reactions: Thanks 1


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## Papa_Lazarou (15/4/16)

Excellent find, @Alex (as usual).

Looooots of excellent points raised and I can't wait for chapter 3. While I agree with all of it, the one thing that really sticks out for me is the vibe and tenor of vape shops, at least in my town. With all due respect to vendors in here, they mostly (all?) feel like head shops, complete with a small contingent of cloud blowers lounging around the cash register. Lotsa tattoos, lotsa beards - lotsa image projection. I'm generalizing, to be sure, and I'm talking only about what I have daily access to. Small, unrepresentative sample? Perhaps. Judging by a lot of the gear and juice reviewers online, perhaps not.

Nothing wrong with those shops and those patrons. It just feels like a missed opportunity to be bigger than niche from a business perspective. That, and it seems to create a perception in the general public - one that vaping is somehow counterculture. That, in turn, creates a kind of cultural surface tension - tribalism, with "our kind" being the renegades.

I think a part of us likes that. Some of us (myself included) have been subjected to years (decades) of reproachful stares and pejorative association through smoking, and deep down we knew they had a point. With vaping, though, I think we feel we actually have a new higher moral ground and some (most? all? sometimes?) don't care if it gets a little "back atcha, mister smug face" at times. We're maybe... dare I say it... proud. And we sometimes wear that out in public, which further fuels the disconnect with non-smoking/vaping peeps.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 6


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## AniDey (15/4/16)

Wow!! This guy can write!! I really enjoyed it.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Lord Vetinari (15/4/16)

Papa_Lazarou said:


> Excellent find, @Alex (as usual).
> 
> Looooots of excellent points raised and I can't wait for chapter 3. While I agree with all of it, the one thing that really sticks out for me is the vibe and tenor of vape shops, at least in my town. With all due respect to vendors in here, they mostly (all?) feel like head shops, complete with a small contingent of cloud blowers lounging around the cash register. Lotsa tattoos, lotsa beards - lotsa image projection. I'm generalizing, to be sure, and I'm talking only about what I have daily access to. Small, unrepresentative sample? Perhaps. Judging by a lot of the gear and juice reviewers online, perhaps not.
> 
> ...


I think a lot of the image comes from who is getting MOST EXCITED about vaping. Always going to be the youngsters getting loud and proud about stuff. I feel perhaps that a small demographic is the most visible. It is the young kids wanting EVERYTHING in their lives be a statement make all the statements on line. 

Around this forum, we picture the average vaper with a grey beard, dual vaping snow wolves on ceramic tanks loaded with something menthol.

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## Papa_Lazarou (15/4/16)

Lord Vetinari said:


> Around this forum, we picture the average vaper with a grey beard, dual vaping snow wolves on ceramic tanks loaded with something menthol.



Soooo... Santa Claus, then.

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## Alex (15/4/16)

Lord Vetinari said:


> I think a lot of the image comes from who is getting MOST EXCITED about vaping. Always going to be the youngsters getting loud and proud about stuff. I feel perhaps that a small demographic is the most visible. It is the young kids wanting EVERYTHING in their lives be a statement make all the statements on line.
> 
> Around this forum, we picture the average vaper with a grey beard, dual vaping snow wolves on ceramic tanks loaded with something menthol.

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## Silver (15/4/16)

Papa_Lazarou said:


> Excellent find, @Alex (as usual).
> 
> Looooots of excellent points raised and I can't wait for chapter 3. While I agree with all of it, the one thing that really sticks out for me is the vibe and tenor of vape shops, at least in my town. With all due respect to vendors in here, they mostly (all?) feel like head shops, complete with a small contingent of cloud blowers lounging around the cash register. Lotsa tattoos, lotsa beards - lotsa image projection. I'm generalizing, to be sure, and I'm talking only about what I have daily access to. Small, unrepresentative sample? Perhaps. Judging by a lot of the gear and juice reviewers online, perhaps not.
> 
> ...



I love your post @Papa_Lazarou 
I agree with you wholeheartedly

The point you made about vapers feeling we have a "new higher moral ground" is worth emphasising.

Almost all of us are so grateful to be off the stinkies and that we found something that is fun and quite easy. I know from my personal experience that once off stinkies it leads to a "pride" of sorts - and this forum bonds us all to form a "tribe" of sorts.

But I have always said on this forum that vapers need to be respectful of non-smokers/non-vapers. The attitude of - its not smoke - so we can vape wherever we want and blow clouds at unsuspecting bystanders - is just plain wrong. And that attitude, which I see all too often - needs to change if we as vapers are going to set a good example.

PS - great find for us @Alex, thanks

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## AniDey (16/4/16)

In 'out laying areas' the problem is this:
We get what is sold at China shops. 
Fake Liqua and Ego's. 
No advertising, no after sales service. Expensive imported juice. No knowledge, no passion. 
I was looking for juice in Thabazimbi yesterday. Found some Playboy juice @R100 for 10ml!!!! R100!!!! 
I enquired at the local chemist the other day. She 'isn't allowed ' to sell juice! Don't know why, cause the Twisps in Clicks are right next to the vitamins. 
Maybe I am just too impatient. In time vape shops will open out here, and stock local juice. 
There is a gap in the market. Huge opportunities. 
Wish I had the resources to do it. **sigh**

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## YeOldeOke (16/4/16)

In two minds about all this. I too basically use vaping for cessation, yet at the same time it almost inevitably becomes a hobby as well for many. And at the end of the day, it is the hobby aspect that brings in the most $ for the traders. Constant sales of new hardware and juice. Cloud and flavour chasers love buying new stuff, and use lotsa juice.

So yea, the image has become slightly 'decadent', but can you condemn traders for going where the bucks are, and vapers for enjoying their hobby? Let's not get too high and mighty and judgmental on our moral high ground of quitting smoking lest we start sounding just like the 'enemy' sounds.

If I remember correctly, a few years ago some traders were attacked for marketing vaping as a smoking cessation tool. Threatened with tough regulation as medical equipment etc.

Between a rock and a hard place really. Will have to learn to walk and chew gum at the same time. Fun IS a large part of vaping, and that fact is partly the reason it has become a successful quitting tool.

Framing the debate is one aspect. Another is being forced to align the industry to that framing of the debate, which is being suggested here.

Chill a bit. The OP sounds a tad uptight and intense. Vaping is a good idea. Good ideas cannot be supressed.

Life is not only about health. It is also about enjoyment.

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