# DIY juice vs Commercial juice



## Taran (11/2/16)

hey guys since i started making my own juice.. i havent bought any other juice from the vendors

today i decided to smoke one of my flavours that i had from a shop.. and i much prefer smoking my own juice that ive made.. does anyone else smoking only their diy juice???

Reactions: Like 2


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## Wesley (11/2/16)

Taran said:


> hey guys since i started making my own juice.. i havent bought any other juice from the vendors
> 
> today i decided to smoke one of my flavours that i had from a shop.. and i much prefer smoking my own juice that ive made.. does anyone else smoking only their diy juice???


I do - now and then I'll buy a commercial juice that looks tasty so I can get some new ideas for DIY.


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## Christos (11/2/16)

I use my own juice. Every few months I sample what's hot at the vendors to give my palette a break. 
95% of the year I'm on the diy train.

Reactions: Like 1


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## blujeenz (11/2/16)

Taran said:


> hey guys since i started making my own juice.. i havent bought any other juice from the vendors
> 
> today i decided to smoke one of my flavours that i had from a shop.. and i much prefer smoking my own juice that ive made.. does anyone else smoking only their diy juice???


If you're smoking juice the power/temp is too high, lower it to respectable _*vape*_ standards.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 8


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## rogue zombie (11/2/16)

I mostly only vape the good DIY recipes I have acumulated.... really good ones.

But there are a select few outstanding local, and international brands I still apprectiate. I do still buy, just much less. And the term "premium juice" has taken on a whole new meaning with me


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## Lord Vetinari (11/2/16)

DIY? Awesome. Anybody care to point me in the direction of some reading? Sounds like a fantastic hobby. Would love to try myself.


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## Clouds4Days (11/2/16)

Hi @Lord Vetinari 
If you wanna try diy. Follow this link on the forum. This is where I started and learnt tons.
www.ecigssa.co.za/diy-your-first-time.t7324/
Vape on peeps

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2 | Informative 1


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## Christos (11/2/16)

Anybody care to share a decent cereal vape or direct me to a clone that they have tried and loved?


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## Clouds4Days (11/2/16)

Hi @Christos
I can help you out with a vanilla/sweet milk recipe if you want?
Well depending what you using to vape.
Cause on my dripper it's almost got like a milky almond taste to it. But on a tank has a milky favour.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Christos (11/2/16)

Clouds4Days said:


> Hi @Christos
> I can help you out with a vanilla/sweet milk recipe if you want?
> Well depending what you using to vape.
> Cause on my dripper it's almost got like a milky almond taste to it. But on a tank has a milky favour.


Bottom feed mostly but leaning towards tanks these days. 
Anything is welcomed.


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## Clouds4Days (11/2/16)

@Christos 

Cream 7%
Bav cream 4%
Sweetner 3%
Honey 0.5 %

Yum yum yum


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## method1 (11/2/16)

a lot of commercial juice is actually diy juice .. 'cos clones etc


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## Christos (11/2/16)

method1 said:


> a lot of commercial juice is actually diy juice .. 'cos clones etc


Agreed. Just upset about local vendors passing their magical creations on as unique when in fact they are clones.


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## Clouds4Days (11/2/16)

Christos said:


> Agreed. Just upset about local vendors passing their magical creations on as unique when in fact they are clones.


I've tasted some juices from different vendors that are very very similar. Just add in a bit extra of this and that for a slight deviation.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## zadiac (11/2/16)

Taran said:


> hey guys since i started making my own juice.. i havent bought any other juice from the vendors
> 
> today i decided to smoke one of my flavours that i had from a shop.. and i much prefer smoking my own juice that ive made.. does anyone else smoking only their diy juice???



All commercial juices started out as DIY juices at some point, even if the manufacturer uses a professional mixologist. At some point those juices were made and tested by various people in order to perfect them, so technically they were DIY once 
And please mate, get rid of the "*smoking*" word. You *vape* juices, you don't *smoke* them. Smoking is for people who light up stinkies and smoke them. Here, we all *vape*.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## yuganp (12/2/16)

I prefer diy juice to commercial juices for a few simple reasons.

NB: I hate DIY normally because I am lazy - I use commercial coils in a tank but build on a dripper.

1. Most commercial juices juices have too much flavour. I know that they have to cater for a wide variety of power levels and devices but it does not help me if I want to vape at a specific level and get the vape I want. Juices that were good at 5w when I started tastes terrible now at 50w. When I now buy commercial juices, I have to tweak it by diluting and/or changing the pg/VG ratio to fit my needs.

2. Most commercial juices are too sweet especially American juices. It seems to be loaded with em or sucralose.

I started DIY by tweaking commercial juices by cutting, adding or just changing totally because I did not want to waste. There are a lot of people out there that do a semi DIY.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## rogue zombie (12/2/16)

Christos said:


> Agreed. Just upset about local vendors passing their magical creations on as unique when in fact they are clones.


This is why I respect MMM so much. Besides the fact that they are yum, they are 100% authentic and unique.


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## Andre (12/2/16)

rogue zombie said:


> This is why I respect MMM so much. Besides the fact that they are yum, they are 100% authentic and unique.


And here I thought the one was a Nana Cream interpretation?

Reactions: Funny 2


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## rogue zombie (12/2/16)

Andre said:


> And here I thought the one was a Nana Cream interpretation?


Lol... Oh right.

But you know what I mean, that's hardly what MMM is known for.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mike Card (12/2/16)

@Clouds4Days Where can I get Sweetener from?


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## Roxy (12/2/16)

We will be trying DIY soon, or as we have decided to call it... potions class  can't wait!


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## GlacieredPyro (12/2/16)

Miketruant said:


> @Clouds4Days Where can I get Sweetener from?



Just note. EM or ethol maltol is not a sweetner. If you desperately need and you know what you are doing... go sucralose or mashmellow for low % sweetning. In this case I suspect sucralose.


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## theyettie (12/2/16)

DIY rocks man!! Cuts cost big time and I feel like a mad scientist at my disinfected kitchen top with surgical gloves. 
I use e-liquid-recipes.com to get nice recipes and to ascertain which flavours I need to buy to mix the good stuff. Don't know about ya'll?


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## Lord Vetinari (12/2/16)

Christos said:


> Agreed. Just upset about local vendors passing their magical creations on as unique when in fact they are clones.


I have no problem with good clones. It is like booking a great cover band for a reception. Just because the real deal is out of your price range doesnt mean you arent allowed a good party hehehehe. It also seems like a great way to get your skills up, so I will definitely try out fresh creations by the guys who do good clones. Keeping the money local, supporting the small guy, that sort of thing.

If we ask them to label these mixes as clones I think it will just discourage people from making them.

Reactions: Agree 4


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## Clouds4Days (12/2/16)

Miketruant said:


> @Clouds4Days Where can I get Sweetener from?


I dot my Sweetner (sucralose) from Vapeowave.


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## NewOobY (12/2/16)

Clouds4Days said:


> Hi @Christos
> I can help you out with a vanilla/sweet milk recipe if you want?
> Well depending what you using to vape.
> Cause on my dripper it's almost got like a milky almond taste to it. But on a tank has a milky favour.



Hey @Clouds4Days did you actually add Almond in your recipe? If you have please share your recipe wiff me preez. If it's a secret - are you coming to the JHB Vape Meet, I would like to try some, and if I like I'll buy some. I have failed twice trying to make an almond+milk vape, my stuff tastes like sand and I try push past the taste, but can't and flush the joose.


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## rogue zombie (12/2/16)

Lord Vetinari said:


> I have no problem with good clones. It is like booking a great cover band for a reception. Just because the real deal is out of your price range doesnt mean you arent allowed a good party hehehehe. It also seems like a great way to get your skills up, so I will definitely try out fresh creations by the guys who do good clones. Keeping the money local, supporting the small guy, that sort of thing.
> 
> If we ask them to label these mixes as clones I think it will just discourage people from making them.



Ya but I think what is being portrayed here, is when a label sells something off as their own.

They say," we added a pinch of Strawberry and a dash of this..." 
No you didn't, you got the recipe off the net.

I could also pass off Gremlin Juice's Thrashberry for example as my own. From the initial recipe, I tailored it to my liking. Small changes make a big difference.

I also don't really have an issue with people selling clones per say - I mean half these juices we can't even get here. But to take someone else's design and call it completely your own, well that I don't know so much.

But then again, this is debatable - if I did take your recipe and tweak and changed it a bit to form something different - is that not now "my own"? This subject can be viewed from various angles.

Reactions: Agree 5


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## Lord Vetinari (12/2/16)

rogue zombie said:


> Ya but I think what is being portrayed here, is when a label sells something off as their own.
> 
> They say," we added a pinch of Strawberry and a dash of this..."
> No you didn't, you got the recipe off the net.
> ...


Sticky topic indeed. If I consider it deeply I feel that it would be appropriate to obtain permission to make a clone if it is for commercial purposes. 
Then again that just might make it very expensive, having to pay royalties in dollars.
The plot indeed thickens

Reactions: Agree 2


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## rogue zombie (12/2/16)

Lord Vetinari said:


> Sticky topic indeed. If I consider it deeply I feel that it would be appropriate to obtain permission to make a clone if it is for commercial purposes.
> Then again that just might make it very expensive, having to pay royalties in dollars.
> The plot indeed thickens



Oh absolutely, if you obtain permission, sell away. That's just business.
What Method1 does with DiyorDie - brilliant.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Lord Vetinari (12/2/16)

rogue zombie said:


> What Method1 does with DiyorDie - brilliant.


You are going to have to inform this lost noob of what the above means lol... still swimming in the vastness that is the Vaping community


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## Andre (12/2/16)

Lord Vetinari said:


> Sticky topic indeed. If I consider it deeply I feel that it would be appropriate to obtain permission to make a clone if it is for commercial purposes.
> Then again that just might make it very expensive, having to pay royalties in dollars.
> The plot indeed thickens


Extremely unlikely that it would ever be a 1:1 clone (unless you got hold of the maker's recipe in some way). At most it is an interpretation of the original. And, as I have said before, our supermarket shelves are full of such interpretations. I have no problem with them at all. I see no legal or even moral rights being contravened.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## Lord Vetinari (12/2/16)

Andre said:


> Extremely unlikely that it would ever be a 1:1 clone (unless you got hold of the maker's recipe in some way). At most it is an interpretation of the original. And, as I have said before, our supermarket shelves are full of such interpretations. I have no problem with them at all. I see no legal or even moral rights being contravened.


Indeed this is a very good point. And I agree it is the bottom line. Needs to be a 1:1 clone to really step on toes far as intellectual property is concerned. 
I still like thinking of the clones like I do a good cover band. A very good time at a very good price. Makes sense to me especially as I justified my first mod setup by thinking I was going to save money on cigarettes. I feel a lot better but I havent saved at all lol...

Reactions: Like 1


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## method1 (12/2/16)

There is cloning - where you taste a commercial juice and go.. hmm I think I can make this, and proceed to work it out, that's something of a skill in itself - and then there's taking a well known recipe from a well know DIYer - and passing it off as your own, minor tweaks or not, with no credit or permission from the originator - this is just not cool.

There are people actively giving of themselves to the community and they deserve to profit too if someone is going to be commercialising a product that is strongly derivative of their original work.

This idea theft discourages the DIY scene & also damages the credibility of the brand when uncovered.

Recently had a local juice that is a pretty straight rip of a well known recipe by one of the DIY celebs, even the description of the flavour profile is the same, no credit given or permission asked - really pissed me off.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2


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## rogue zombie (12/2/16)

Lord Vetinari said:


> You are going to have to inform this lost noob of what the above means lol... still swimming in the vastness that is the Vaping community


Mr. Hardwicks (@method1) colaborated and payed for the rights to certain recipes from the famous Diy or Die www.diyordievaping.com

Reactions: Winner 1


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## rogue zombie (12/2/16)

Andre said:


> Extremely unlikely that it would ever be a 1:1 clone (unless you got hold of the maker's recipe in some way). At most it is an interpretation of the original. And, as I have said before, our supermarket shelves are full of such interpretations. I have no problem with them at all. I see no legal or even moral rights being contravened.


I've never known how I feel, moraly about this.

On the one hand, if it's found on the open internet, then its fair game.

BUT I see folks on Reddit freaking out all the time, because someone is selling a recipe of theirs, which they only shared for personal consumption


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## rogue zombie (12/2/16)

method1 said:


> There is cloning - where you taste a commercial juice and go.. hmm I think I can make this, and proceed to work it out, that's something of a skill in itself - and then there's taking a well known recipe from a well know DIYer - and passing it off as your own, minor tweaks or not, with no credit or permission from the originator - this is just not cool.
> 
> There are people actively giving of themselves to the community and they deserve to profit too if someone is going to be commercialising a product that is strongly derivative of their original work.
> 
> ...



Lol... Same description. That's just lazy


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## Johanvdmrw (20/6/16)

Hi guys, think this would be the best place to ask this question. I have been vaping my own juice for the past 4 months. I got various recipes from the internet and I am loving every minute of the journey so far . But I found myself thinking what the "premium" juice makers do differently to make their juices taste great? I have 1 recipe that is already on V4 and now it's starting to get where I want it to be. But still not 100% there. Any idea what methods etc one could start using to get the juice to that level?

Reactions: Dislike 1


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## Frikkie6000 (20/6/16)

@Taran I smoke only my own mixes. better and cheaper this way


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## Scissorhands (20/6/16)

My own juice exclusively, unless im trying someones DIY (a DIY swop thread would be awesome?) or was given a freebie, personally I find commercial juice way over priced/flavored, but that might just be my unpopular opinion

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Andre (20/6/16)

Johanvdmrw said:


> Hi guys, think this would be the best place to ask this question. I have been vaping my own juice for the past 4 months. I got various recipes from the internet and I am loving every minute of the journey so far . But I found myself thinking what the "premium" juice makers do differently to make their juices taste great? I have 1 recipe that is already on V4 and now it's starting to get where I want it to be. But still not 100% there. Any idea what methods etc one could start using to get the juice to that level?


I do not think they do much differently than you do. The good mixologists probably know many concentrates intimately and have an almost instinctive feeling of what can work and then they go from V1 to V20 to .... and get it if lucky. The recipes from commercial juices, which were released, are no different from the recipes you find in any DIY community, but they just work. Of course, they have to make what will sell, which takes out many unique creations. Even so, some will love some will not. One of the strong points of DIY is that you can take a good recipe and adapt it to your personal preferences, which the commercial mixologist cannot do - he or she has to cater to the middle majority to be successful.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## RichJB (20/6/16)

I only vape my own juice but seem to have taken an entirely different approach from most others. I never visit juice sites and am completely uninterested in other people's recipes, whether commercial or DIY. The only "help" I got was to download the TFA spreadsheet which recommends the ideal % of the various flavours. Considering that some flavours require only a few drops in 10ml whereas others need to be at 20%, I didn't want to have to do that experimenting on my own.

But other than that, it's a voyage of self-discovery. I started with single flavours, just to get an idea of what the base flavour offers. Next I'll start mixing some together. I might arrive at some mixes that are similar to existing hit flavours, I might come up with my own concoctions which are completely unique. But either way, they will all be mine. If I get a few duds (or even many duds) along the way, that just increases the fun.

I have yet to mix anything that was unvapeable. But then, I was taught to eat what was put in front of me and be thankful. That's how it was when I were a lad. I remember vaping as we marched towards Berlin in 1945. None of them fancy fused Claptons back then. We had to twist our own coils by hand from the shrapnel of German shells exploding near us. You try getting TCR values for depleted uranium when you're pinned down in a foxhole without wi-fi. No bottled flavour concentrates either, we had to mash up boiled turnips and carrots. VG was an unheard of luxury, the govt needed it all to make smoke grenades. So we used the gearbox oil from destroyed Panzer tanks instead. And none of this fancy organic cotton from Japan either. We had to cut up our woollen army socks for wicking. Flavour for days. Waste not, want not, that's my motto. I remember we liberated one small Belgian village. The vape bar was the only building left standing but there was a German MG42 post inside, so I took a box of Chinese 18650 clones and... *drones on interminably in old-fartish manner*

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 7 | Funny 2


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## rabbitneko (20/6/16)

Christos said:


> Anybody care to share a decent cereal vape or direct me to a clone that they have tried and loved?



I've managed to create two that I like. I use 50VG/50PG, got all my flavours and stuff from Valley Vapour. Don't know the makes off by hand, but if you're interested I can get the names for you.

Ricecrunchies - based on my ADV juice Milked, but I don't have cash to buy 300ml a month
6% Milk (Flavor West)
3% Rice Crunchies (Flavor Apprentice)
3% toasted marshmallow (Flavor Apprentice) - they didn't have normal marshmellow in stock at the time, so I settled.

and Frootloops:
6% Milk (Flavor West)
4% Fruit Rings (Flavor West)
2% Sweetener (Flavor Apprentice)

Reactions: Like 2 | Thanks 3


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## Andre (20/6/16)

rabbitneko said:


> I've managed to create two that I like. I use 50VG/50PG, got all my flavours and stuff from Valley Vapour. Don't know the makes off by hand, but if you're interested I can get the names for you.
> 
> "Milked" - based on my ADV flavour, but I don't have cash to buy 300ml a month
> 6% Milk
> ...


Yes, please edit to give us the flavour brands.


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## rabbitneko (20/6/16)

Andre said:


> Yes, please edit to give us the flavour brands.



I've done so

Reactions: Like 1 | Thanks 1


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## Frikkie6000 (20/6/16)

rabbitneko said:


> I've managed to create two that I like. I use 50VG/50PG, got all my flavours and stuff from Valley Vapour. Don't know the makes off by hand, but if you're interested I can get the names for you.
> 
> "Milked" - based on my ADV flavour, but I don't have cash to buy 300ml a month
> 6% Milk (Flavor West)
> ...



so so so gonna mix this


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## rabbitneko (20/6/16)

Frikkie6000 said:


> so so so gonna mix this



Let me know what you think and if you have any suggestions on improving it! I'm still new in DIY and these were the first two I've made.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Frikkie6000 (20/6/16)

rabbitneko said:


> Let me know what you think and if you have any suggestions on improving it! I'm still new in DIY and these were the first two I've made.



I am also quite new at this and only mix one to two flavors but will let you know what I think for sure... once payday has come that is


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## zadiac (20/6/16)

Frikkie6000 said:


> @Taran I smoke only my own mixes. better and cheaper this way



If you *smoke* juice, then you're doing something wrong. It should be *vaped, not smoked*

Reactions: Like 1


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## Frikkie6000 (20/6/16)

zadiac said:


> If you *smoke* juice, then you're doing something wrong. It should be *vaped, not smoked*



haha jaja  was wondering why the juice was boiling and not vaporizing


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