# South Africa Lambasted in DIY Community...



## Chukin'Vape

I don't want to say much about this other than i'm extremely disappointed - and I would like to get to the bottom of this. 

Please just click on the video link, you will see it starts at 1:22:09 - and listen from there onwards.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 5 | Informative 2


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## Rude Rudi

Let's hope that we can "out" these Charletons...not cool. They are causing untold problems for the rest of the industry.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2


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## craigb

Summary for those of us with limited data?

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## KZOR

I totally agree that someone is a real douche that steals and markets. He/she qualifies as a criminal in my eyes.
Pity there is always a few wankers that ruin the image most of us is trying to build and maintain.
Another thing that i have noticed is the incredible boom of liquids being released which is fine but 95% tastes like castor oil or the like.
Purchased two bottles recently because i won a discount and they were so bad that i gave both away after a single vape. The guy i gave them to binned it after he tried it.
Damn guys .....please please please ........ make sure something is vapeable before release.

Reactions: Agree 8


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## Chukin'Vape

craigb said:


> Summary for those of us with limited data?



Enyawreklaw aka Wayne from DIYORDIE - has lambasted the South African vape Industry for selling his recipes commercially without his consent.


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## n0ugh7_zw

ye, its crappy

Reactions: Agree 1


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## craigb

Chukin'Vape said:


> Enyawreklaw aka Wayne from DIYORDIE - has lambasted the South African vape Industry for selling his recipes commercially without his consent.


Aaah.

Can't the guys that have licensed the recipes sue or pursue other legal routes?

It is IP theft after all.


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## n0ugh7_zw

craigb said:


> Aaah.
> 
> Can't the guys that have licensed the recipes sue or pursue other legal routes?
> 
> It is IP theft after all.



I think the cost vs. reward isn't worth it for them. SA is a tiny, tiny market compared to the USA.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Chukin'Vape

n0ugh7_zw said:


> I think the cost vs. reward isn't worth it for them. SA is a tiny, tiny market compared to the USA.


But surely that doesnt "ok" it .... right?


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## Clouds4Days

Chukin'Vape said:


> I don't want to say much about this other than i'm extremely disappointed - and I would like to get to the bottom of this.
> 
> Please just click on the video link, you will see it starts at 1:22:09 - and listen from there onwards.






Chukin'Vape said:


> Enyawreklaw aka Wayne from DIYORDIE - has lambasted the South African vape Industry for selling his recipes commercially without his consent.



And Wayne says the guys still have the audacity to call/mail him saying something is wrong with the flavour profile 

Sorry Mercedes-Benz ive coppied your vehicle which i want to sell to the public, but there is a sound coming from the engine bay can you please help me.... Lol.....

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Stosta

So how am I as a consumer supposed to be aware of what is a stolen recipe? I think its a shocking practice and I can totally understand why he is so pissed, and would gladly boycott whichever companies are doing this. But without a name I will continue to buy them. I get that he doesn't want to get involved in mud-slinging, I really do... But at the end if these guys were shitty enough to sell the recipes as their own, I doubt they will have the integrity to stop with a simple please. Making it public so that I, as an individual, can boycott it and hit them where it hurts. Their pockets.

Reactions: Agree 11 | Winner 3


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## Stosta

If anyone does know who it is thats doing this, please PM me. Only so that I can do my bit to stop supporting this theft, I wont use or share the info at all. Thanks!

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


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## Chukin'Vape

craigb said:


> Aaah.
> 
> Can't the guys that have licensed the recipes sue or pursue other legal routes?
> 
> It is IP theft after all.



Legally I dont think Wayne can pursue - not that he would though, however the fact of the matter is that some people are benefiting, whilst South Africa gets this shady tag, and poor Joel (Mr Hardwick's) who has the South African Enyareklaw rights suffers. Seriously are we going to allow this in our community?

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Clouds4Days

Stosta said:


> If anyone does know who it is thats doing this, please PM me. Only so that I can do my bit to stop supporting this theft, I wont use or share the info at all. Thanks!



I would like to know too please so of you find out something @Stosta please let me know and i will do the same bud.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Chukin'Vape

Clouds4Days said:


> I would like to know too please so of you find out something @Stosta please let me know and i will do the same bud.



Same here please - add me to this list!

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2


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## craigb

Chukin'Vape said:


> Legally I dont think Wayne can pursue - not that he would though, however the fact of the matter is that some people are benefiting, whilst South Africa gets this shady tag, and poor Joel (Mr Hardwick's) who has the South African Enyareklaw rights suffers. Seriously are we going to allow this in our community?


But if Mr Hardwick's can prove damage somehow, can't he pursue it.

Even if it's just in small claims court.

If I am aware of a recipe and see it for sale in the local, I will automatically doubt its veracity until proven otherwise.

Problem is when they rebrand and rename. 

Humans suck.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Trimerion

Stosta said:


> If anyone does know who it is thats doing this, please PM me. Only so that I can do my bit to stop supporting this theft, I wont use or share the info at all. Thanks!



add me to that list as well please, I would rather support the recipe maker or someone who has permission to use them rather than a faker trying to pass off the flavours as their own

Reactions: Like 2


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## KZOR

There is nothing that can be done except if the guilty seller gets a conscience.
The dicks will just claim a recipe by changing the percentage (0,5 to 0.4%) of one of the ingredients slightly.
That's why i decided to post my recipes so that they have a date attached to them and anything after that date remotely similar will put me in the original alchemist seat.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Richelo Killian

I think the guilty party SHOULD be named and shamed publically. We as a vape community can stand together and root out this crap. Even if no action can be taken, if we all know it's stolen recipes, we just don't buy from them anymore. They will go away soon enough!

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 11


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## BubiSparks

I also would like to be on the list. Wayne should let the SA vaping community know who they are so that we can avoid these vendors.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Dietz

I Agree with what he said, if it was me, I would DEFINITELY do a name and shame of who they are. I dont need to press charges or anything, just ruin their reputation.

I dont agree that he slams All of South Africa due to a few Losers.
I dont think its fair that say that "South Africans are Shifty MutherF@ckers" just because of one Ahole. Please add me to the list of people who wants to know who these vendors are. They are really ruining it for the rest.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 5


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## Rob Fisher

I love the fact that everyone is up in arms about this issue and quite rightly so… and the issue was covered a few months back on Mr Hardwicks Radio Station. But I’m not sure how this is any different to cloning of hardware. Cloning, copying recipes… it is all stealing other people intellectual properties.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 11


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## Pixstar

This is BS. I do however feel that it would not be fair on say Joel to be the one to do the naming.
Perhaps we could all kindly and politely request it from Wayne of DIY or Die on the comments section of the above listed video?

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## craigb

Rob Fisher said:


> I love the fact that everyone is up in arms about this issue and quite rightly so… and the issue was covered a few months back on Mr Hardwicks Radio Station. But I’m not sure how this is any different to cloning of hardware. Cloning, copying recipes… it is all stealing other people intellectual properties.


Good point.

This is not a justification, just an exploration of the possible reason.

The difference comes in as to who the original belongs to. Wayne Walker is an individual that many people look up to.

A cloned atty is based on a creation from some company. We don't feel that direct bond with them, and let's be honest, many people have a damn the man attitude.

Fair point though. Would this not constitute cognitive dissonance?

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Chukin'Vape

This issue is now getting massive attention globally - through DIYORDIE, if we don't act quickly, im afraid South Africa and its juice market will be labelled by all as shady. Almost exactly how we think of China as a pile of cloners. I believe our community is tight enough to weed out this problem quick sticks.

Reactions: Agree 4


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## Rob Fisher

craigb said:


> Good point.
> 
> This is not a justification, just an exploration of the possible reason.
> 
> The difference comes in as to who the original belongs to. Wayne Walker is an individual that many people look up to.
> 
> A cloned atty is based on a creation from some company. We don't feel that direct bond with them, and let's be honest, many people have a damn the man attitude.
> 
> Fair point though. Would this not constitute cognitive dissonance?



Yes that is a reason... and I guess that's why I feel so passionate about the issue because I personally know and am friends with a few makers of devices and tanks that are directly affected by the cloners... and one of those is Rob from Reosmods... when they cloned the REO that was the beginning of the end for him and one of the reasons he semi retired and closed all his REO Forums and started concentrating on making guitars rather than REO's.


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## Dietz

I a


Chukin'Vape said:


> This issue is now getting massive attention globally - through DIYORDIE, if we don't act quickly, im afraid South Africa and its juice market will be labelled by all as shady. Almost exactly how we think of China as a pile of cloners. I believe our community is tight enough to weed out this problem quick sticks.


I agree, Wayne's Opinion is Globally recognized and that can mean that we will suffer when it comes to competing Globally due to this opinion that has been caused by a minority.
I have only seen Passion, Pride and Dedication with the Majority of the DIYers here, and to have all the hard work destroyed by a few is whats getting to me.
Its all nice that everyone feels so passionately about this issue, but suggestions would go further, Mine is that these crappycloners should be named and shamed, All vendors to only buy from reputable sources (this will be mos difficult) and we should do our part in trying to educate the average vape friends so that they know the difference or at least where NOT to buy.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## n0ugh7_zw

i have no evidence or anything at all to back this up.... but i suspect this is going to be one of those cases, where when the culprit is found... hearts are going to be broken.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## William Vermaak

I would also like to be on the list please. We need to do our part even if all we can do is boycott the copied juice to try and help the original creator to survive. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Pixstar

n0ugh7_zw said:


> i have no evidence or anything at all to back this up.... but i suspect this is going to be one of those cases, where when the culprit is found... hearts are going to be broken.


You mean it could even be our wives or significant others?

Reactions: Funny 4


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## n0ugh7_zw

Pixstar said:


> You mean it could even be our wives or significant others?


stranger things have happened

Reactions: Funny 1


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## BigGuy

from a local mixers perspective please also don't forget that a lot of the local mixers juices also get cloned and then get sold by what the community calls "bathroom mixers" in store at least once a week we get asked by people how to clone popular brands. standard response is we do not advocate cloning of local brands and rather try coming up with new recipes.

the problem that local established mixers have is that lately there is a lot of cross overs between companies. ie: Nostalgia / emissary same profile juice being released. 

I personally have had a crossover with @Paulie with the release of his pistachio ice cream i was working on one and so was he but he was further down the line with production of it so i re designed mine as to not clash with his. But honestly if we did not have dinner the one night when he was here in DBN where we both found out each other were doing the same juice we both would have released the same juice.

My 2 cents from a mixers perspective.

Reactions: Like 8 | Thanks 1


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## Caveman

Yes it's shady, but it's an unfortunate risk of putting your stuff in public domain. If Mercedes were to put their car schematics and tips online, for sure people would rip it off, change a few parts slightly and then claim its their original. It's terribly difficult to prove violation of an online licence and not worth the cost involved. It's also extremely difficult to even take action against someone to prove it. The vendor could simply say he arrived at the same profile through trial and error and it's easy to create notes detailing months of experiments, how to actually prove a timeline since seeing the recipe and launching a juice that rips it off is near impossible and unfortunately in this case, proving that you didn't rip it off is much easier than proving you did. There are no copyrights attached to a recipe so arriving at a similar flavor with much the same flavors and %s is not impossible and can probably be proven

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Chukin'Vape

The problem here specifically is that south african companie(s) are using online free recipe's and sell it under the makers name - where the maker Enyawreklaw (Wayne) has a sole rights of trade agreement with Mr Hardwicks (Joel) to resell his rescipe(s) in South Africa. So this is not recipe theft or anything - but is shady if you haven't confirmed with the maker that you can do this commercially. I'm really concerned about our Reputation globally.

Reactions: Agree 5


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## Caveman

Chukin'Vape said:


> The problem here specifically is that south african companie(s) are using online free recipe's and sell it under the makers name - where the maker Enyawreklaw (Wayne) has a sole rights of trade agreement with Mr Hardwicks (Joel) to resell his rescipe(s) in South Africa. So this is not recipe theft or anything - but is shady if you haven't confirmed with the maker that you can do this commercially. I'm really concerned about our Reputation globally.


Ah I understand, I thought they were selling it under their own name. If they are selling it as DIY or DIE without permission it's a different legal issue, illegal use of a brand for example. So many variables though, also depends on the legality of the license itself, whether it will hold up as it is a free recipe, or if they are being bought by a third party and mixed up, in the event of it being pre-made concentrates. It's a very difficult issue, especially without the views on jy by the offending vendor(s). Also it's an issue of making the recipe itself by buying the ingredients vs premixing from a commercially available concentrate. Then it becomes a whole new issue, if there are reseller rights and agreements in place, third party companies should not be allowed to sell premixed to SA, assuming of course that is the case

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Effjh

Rob Fisher said:


> I love the fact that everyone is up in arms about this issue and quite rightly so… and the issue was covered a few months back on Mr Hardwicks Radio Station. But I’m not sure how this is any different to cloning of hardware. Cloning, copying recipes… it is all stealing other people intellectual properties.



There is one difference, Wayne releases his recipe's for free, then someone takes that and charges for it. With hardware, the authentic's are often very expensive, then someone clones it and sells it for significantly less. Yes both are IP theft and both are wrong, but not a tit for tat comparison.


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## Rob Fisher

Effjh said:


> There is one difference, Wayne releases his recipe's for free, then someone takes that and charges for it. With hardware, the authentic's are often very expensive, then someone clones it and sells it for significantly less. Yes both are IP theft and both are wrong, but not a tit for tat comparison.



If you say so... personally I don't see any difference...

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 3


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## Christos

I don't see anyone crying about clone atties. Heck i make an effort to only buy from vendors who refuse to stock clones excluding me from 98% of our local vendors. Shout out specifically to @KieranD and @SAVapeGear. I know a few other vendors but those 2 prove my point. 

Theft is theft bottom line. 

I agree south Africans are shifty mother fluffers. If that statement offends you I suggest you are probably shifty AF.

Reactions: Like 2 | Thanks 1 | Can relate 1


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## Chukin'Vape

It's so important that we strive to support vendors who support the community - if nobody else is willing to spill the beans on this thread, I will do the research on Monday - and together we will run through a process of elimination, in order to figure out who these retailers are.... Who's in?

Reactions: Like 3 | Thanks 1


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## Clouds4Days

Chukin'Vape said:


> It's so important that we strive to support vendors who support the community - if nobody else is willing to spill the beans on this thread, I will do the research on Monday - and together we will run through a process of elimination, in order to figure out who these retailers are.... Who's in?



Hey bud , maybe if try contact Wayne and tell him that the community is upset im sure he will shed some light?


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## Silver

Thanks for sharing this @Chukin'Vape 

Not a nice thing to hear or read about. I agree that this needs to be fleshed out further and better understood.

Please keep me informed either here or via PM and I will try my best to help where I can.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Scouse45

This is pretty hectic stuff. I've grown to really appreciate the retailers here and the people on this forum and getting into DIY myself due to help from members on this form and watching Wayne's videos. I generally agree with @Rob Fisher in saying clones r clones, being sold without the permission of the original creator bypassing all their innovation, hard work, trial and error and their pride. It's not always about the clone being cheaper it's about supporting our heroes, the people that create the products that keep us from smoking. A clone or a cloned recipe is the same thing, it's taking away from that original beauty. I am by no means having a go at anyone using a clone not at all. I am merely agreeing with wat rob said. The same reason I won't buy my Liverpool shirts from the man at the flea market. I appreciate the origins too much. And I agree @Chukin'Vape this is some serious kak and I'm with u!

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 2


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## Akash

This is seriously not cool. Atleast contact Wayne and get his permission before using his name to market stuff

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Effjh

No one is cloning Wayne's juices.. they are free. He himself have made many cloned juices. Whole thing has nothing to do with juice cloning. Let's leave the hardware chatter in the hardware thread. before this thread turns into another off topic shitstorm.

Reactions: Agree 3 | Funny 2


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## Scouse45

Effjh said:


> No one is cloning Wayne's juices.. they are free. He himself have made many cloned juices. Whole thing has nothing to do with juice cloning. Let's leave the hardware chatter in the hardware thread. before this thread turns into another off topic shitstorm.


Ok bud some of us jus sharing our views did not mean to create an "off topic shitstorm" as u put it. I was merely responding to a comment made by members. But yes selling his recipes without his consent in whatever way u wanna look at, I believe is not acceptable. That's all I think.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 3


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## kev mac

Chukin'Vape said:


> I don't want to say much about this other than i'm extremely disappointed - and I would like to get to the bottom of this.
> 
> Please just click on the video link, you will see it starts at 1:22:09 - and listen from there onwards.



If this is true he has a valid gripe. I follow this channel and have respect for him. I think he does good things for the vape and DIY community. I plan on commenting on this video that I am a proud member of ecigssa and not to judge all on a few bad apples and that my experience with the forum has been one of the best things in my vapeing journey.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 3


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## Effjh

I know of only one supporting vendor that was guilty of this. It was sorted out months ago however so don't see any need to name them now. I think most of the guilty parties currently are off the forum vendors/people.


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## DougP

I'm am trying to not have a blonde moment here ....
I don't understand the fundementals of this 
Help 
Wayne creates a recipe which he posts online and "assumption 1 here - it's publicly available for people to use"
Now somebody here takes said recipe "assumption 2" and then mixes it and markets it as their own recipe and sells this commercially 
So if Wayne created a cookie doughnut recipe then the company down here calls it coekie swirl as an example . If my assumption is correct then how does Wayne land up getting questions on quality and flavor profile 
Or is this Company calling it Wayne's coekie doughnut which doesn't make sense because it is for free for anybody to view and use 
Or am I totally on the wrong track here


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## BumbleBee

Blends Of Distinction said:


> I'm am trying to not have a blonde moment here ....
> I don't understand the fundementals of this
> Help
> Wayne creates a recipe which he posts online and "assumption 1 here - it's publicly available for people to use"
> Now somebody here takes said recipe "assumption 2" and then mixes it and markets it as their own recipe and sells this commercially
> So if Wayne created a cookie doughnut recipe then the company down here calls it coekie swirl as an example . If my assumption is correct then how does Wayne land up getting questions on quality and flavor profile
> Or am I totally on the wrong track here


Yes, some people are taking his (and other's) recipes and selling it under their own label but there are those that sell it as Bronuts or Fried Ice Cream and even go as far as to say they they are ENYAREKLAW Mixes.

Reactions: Like 1


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## method1

*From the DoD Website:

ALL RECIPES, RECIPE STYLES, AND FLAVOR NOTES ARE THE SOLE PROPERTY OF WALKER VAPOR GROUP LLC. THEY ARE NOT FOR COMMERCIAL USE BY ANY AGENT IN ANY STATE. PLEASE CONTACT WALKER VAPOR GROUP IF YOU'D LIKE TO USE ANY CONTENT.*

Reactions: Like 4 | Winner 2


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## DougP

Okay now I getting the picture 
So it's about the commercial side of it as opposed to private use and/or riding on the credibility of establish companies/people

Thanks guys

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Caveman

I just watched the video again, an interesting thing to note, he doesn't hammer on so much about the fact that they are actually being sold, but rather on the fact that he might get a bad name for people selling bad quality versions of it, which I find respectable. It is wrong to sell it without consent yeah, but he is more concerned about the quality of the product then people blaming him, which says a lot about him in general actually.


Blends Of Distinction said:


> I'm am trying to not have a blonde moment here ....
> I don't understand the fundementals of this
> Help
> Wayne creates a recipe which he posts online and "assumption 1 here - it's publicly available for people to use"
> Now somebody here takes said recipe "assumption 2" and then mixes it and markets it as their own recipe and sells this commercially
> So if Wayne created a cookie doughnut recipe then the company down here calls it coekie swirl as an example . If my assumption is correct then how does Wayne land up getting questions on quality and flavor profile
> Or is this Company calling it Wayne's coekie doughnut which doesn't make sense because it is for free for anybody to view and use
> Or am I totally on the wrong track here



I thought the same thing as you but it's not. It companies selling Wayne's Bronuts as Bronuts saying it was created by DIY or DIE. They are not selling it off as their own, they are giving the credit to DIY or DIE, but they are selling it as DIY or DIE without permission

Reactions: Like 2


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## n0ugh7_zw

i have absolutely no issue with clone atties and mods...

and this issue is not like that at all... no one buys a goon clone and then bitches to 528 customs about it. i mean get real.

*and thats the core issue here. that wayne dude is being forced to be responsible for a product that he has no control over. *He can't oversee the conditions the mixtures are made in, or techniques used in the mixing. or the bottling/packaging

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Winner 1


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## n0ugh7_zw

method1 said:


> *From the DoD Website:
> 
> ALL RECIPES, RECIPE STYLES, AND FLAVOR NOTES ARE THE SOLE PROPERTY OF WALKER VAPOR GROUP LLC. THEY ARE NOT FOR COMMERCIAL USE BY ANY AGENT IN ANY STATE. PLEASE CONTACT WALKER VAPOR GROUP IF YOU'D LIKE TO USE ANY CONTENT.*


 
they really should re-word that. because someone could take the meaning to be that it only governs its use in the united states. not the world.


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## Effjh

n0ugh7_zw said:


> i have absolutely no issue with clone atties and mods...
> 
> and this issue is not like that at all... no one buys a goon clone and then bitches to 528 customs about it. i mean get real.
> 
> *and thats the core issue here. that wayne dude is being forced to be responsible for a product that he has no oversight over. *



Exactly this. Anyone who follows DIYorDIE knows he is not fussed about the monetary side of things. I mean the amount of info, recipes and content he provides for FREE is astounding. He has no control over the quality when people market juices using his brand name. It is about tarnishing a brand he built from the ground up for the community as a member of that community. Not some company catering to an elite few.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## n0ugh7_zw

Effjh said:


> Exactly this. Anyone who follows DIYorDIE knows he is not fussed about the monetary side of things. I mean the amount of info, recipes and content he provides for FREE is astounding. He has no control over the quality when people market juices using his brand name. It is about tarnishing a brand he built from the ground up for the community as a member of that community. Not some company catering to an elite few.




It's only business. if his name is dragged through the dirt over some crap that he dishes out for free, it means whatever work he doesn't do for free inherently loses its value and credibility. He has to protect his brand.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## DougP

I swear I was just born ignorant (some might argue dumb) and I guess I am just to trusting of people. 
I would never have figured out how to exploit something like this for my own financial gain


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## method1

While it's true that the primary part of WW's rant was directed towards people using his brand without permission, the issue of commercial use of a recipe (branded or not) is also not taken lightly. 

In the same video NCM brings up an issue where he has been told that a local brand is selling one of his recipes (in e-liquid form).
I think it's important to understand the 2 issues separately, & both are of concern to the DoD team.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 2


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## n0ugh7_zw

i think having a south african version of molecule labs or goodlife vapors would go someway to helping the situation.

A place that has, manufacturing, packaging and distribution all sorted out. So that mixologists can simply go there with their recipe and get them mass produced and sold for what is effectively a royalty payment per bottle.

one of the rules of such a company could be that direct theft/plagiarism or misrepresentation of the juice would be not allowed.

that would act as a disincentive the smaller guys to go the clone route.

It takes the risk out of the hands of the little guys to an extent, and is active encouragement for them to be creative and come up with new stuff.

Reactions: Like 2


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## DougP

n0ugh7_zw said:


> i think having a south african version of molecule labs or goodlife vapors would go someway to helping the situation.
> 
> A place that has, manufacturing, packaging and distribution all sorted out. So that mixologists can simply go there with their recipe and get them mass produced and sold for what is effectively a royalty payment per bottle.
> 
> one of the rules of such a company could be that direct theft/plagiarism or misrepresentation of the juice would be not allowed.
> 
> that would act as a disincentive the smaller guys to go the clone route.
> 
> It takes the risk out of the hands of the little guys to an extent, and is active encouragement for them to be creative and come up with new stuff.



If I'm Not mistaken there is a company here that is offering a service like this.
I was approached by them but for the life of me cannot remember their name


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## n0ugh7_zw

Blends Of Distinction said:


> If I'm Not mistaken there is a company here that is offering a service like this.
> I was approached by them but for the life of me cannot remember their name



For smaller guys it might be well worth their time. and it'd also make regulating juices in south africa a lot more streamlined. Because i think we can all agree that it would be better to self-regulate than to have a government agency step in and impose regulation. 

Perhaps a e-liquid makers federation or some such. that can regulate mixing conditions, and also control branding to an extent so that we don't have products that can be accused of being marketed to underage demographics? 

I'm just thinking out loud, I don't make juice or anything like that. but I do run a company, and know things, sort of.


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## DougP

This is a whole new discussion on its own so I don't want to be seen to be derailing this thread in anyway because "da bossman Silver" will be here like a rocket to kick our butts

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Paulie

Great to see the cloners selling production juice getting called out especially for us mixers who spend countless hours on making our recipes from scratch!

Reactions: Like 5 | Agree 7 | Winner 2


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## kev mac

Chukin'Vape said:


> I don't want to say much about this other than i'm extremely disappointed - and I would like to get to the bottom of this.
> 
> Please just click on the video link, you will see it starts at 1:22:09 - and listen from there onwards.



So I went to the DIY or Die site to comment on the video involving the ejuice situation and saw that S.A.is well represented there and all the comments stated quite strongly that recipe stealing crossed the line,South African vapers spoke loudly on the issue.

Reactions: Like 1


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## PSySpin

Ok i just went and watch the episode. I personally feel that the guys that are steeling there the recipes must be named so that we a community can actively boycott them

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2


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## ivc_mixer

Paulie said:


> Great to see the cloners selling production juice getting called out especially for us mixers who spend countless hours on making our recipes from scratch!



I cannot agree more! 

Many a late night and weekend was spent creating recipes and failing most of the time before finding something which is great. Taking his recipes, copying them and selling them off is like watching rugby on DSTV, taping it on your camcorder and then selling it to TopTV or something. I have huge respect for Wayne as his DIY videos helped me a LOT in the beginning! Copying and selling recipes as your own extends to further than just Wayne, any recipe from a site like e-liquid-recipes or such is credit for the creator and not some yob who wants to make a quick buck.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## CloudsOfEbola

As a new mixer, and one who is hoping maybe to one day release something into the market, I have a question or two :

1) What constitutes recipe theft? In this case I agree that DoD has a very valid point, no one should be stealing others recipes and passing them off as their own. But if I want to mix a Blueberry Cheesecake and sell it for profit, how does that work if I have taken a recipe from a site and modified it slightly. To what extent must something be altered before it can be termed "new" or "original"?

2) Is there a local body, like a "Quality Control" entity that you can approach and say "Here, this is my ejuice I want to send to market, can you please OK the contents for me? Here is my recipe...is this recipe infringing any rights?"

Sure, I`m probably not going to release a Blueberry Cheescake as this has been done loads of times by loads of people, the idea is to get something "Original", but at some point you are going to be using tips from your favourite mixers and using their products.

3) What does Wayne mean by "exclusive rights" to his products in South Africa? Does it mean I can not use his concentrates in my recipes as someone else holds the rights? Or is he referring to his recipes?


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## Takie

I wonder if it is worthwhile to expose South Africa to Vape Court or to actually create our own branch of it. It seems that the SA market has grown to an extent that something of this nature is required. Thoughts?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Lingogrey

KZOR said:


> There is nothing that can be done except if the guilty seller gets a conscience.
> *The dicks will just claim a recipe by changing the percentage (0,5 to 0.4%) of one of the ingredients slightly.*
> That's why i decided to post my recipes so that they have a date attached to them and anything after that date remotely similar will put me in the original alchemist seat.

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 5


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## Rob Fisher

Takie said:


> I wonder if it is worthwhile to expose South Africa to Vape Court or to actually create our own branch of it. It seems that the SA market has grown to an extent that something of this nature is required. Thoughts?



Don't think a separate one would work because there are too many factions working in isolation of each other. Vape Court International has worked really well so my vote would be to introduce Vape Court to SA Vapers.

My guess is that 98% of SA Vapers would never have even heard of Vape Court.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Takie

Rob Fisher said:


> Don't think a separate one would work because there are too many factions working in isolation of each other. Vape Court International has worked really well so my vote would be to introduce Vape Court to SA Vapers.
> 
> My guess is that 98% of SA Vapers would never have even heard of Vape Court.



Well I am happy to open Vape Court to any wanting to join it and get exposed to the international community. Am I allowed to share the link to it?


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## Rob Fisher

Takie said:


> Well I am happy to open Vape Court to any wanting to join it and get exposed to the international community. Am I allowed to share the link to it?



Yes you sure are... but I would start a new Thread Call Vape Court so you can give the peeps an intro and answer questions they may have. Go ahead and share the link.

Reactions: Like 1


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## craigb

Rob Fisher said:


> Yes you sure are... but I would start a new Thread Call Vape Court so you can give the peeps an intro and answer questions they may have. Go ahead and share the link.


@Takie this sounds interesting. Please do start a new thread with more info.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Takie

craigb said:


> @Takie this sounds interesting. Please do start a new thread with more info.


Done

Reactions: Like 2 | Thanks 1


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## Chukin'Vape

Ok guys - here is what I have found online, my Google search was : enyawreklaw + the country filter was added to show only sites from South Africa.

*PLEASE NOTE *- This is the initial search, meaning that we still need to figure out who of these suppliers are Mr Hardwicks resellers. Please feel free to add to this list, if you know of a supplier with enyawreklaw concentrates for sale! 

https://www.theflavourmill.co.za/index.php?route=product/category&path=80_127
https://blckvapour.co.za/collections/diy-or-die-concentrates
https://www.vapejunction.co.za/collections/enyawreklaw
https://www.vapechem.co.za/collections/enyawreklaw-concentrates
https://www.vikingsvape.co.za/search?q=enyawreklaw

@Rude Rudi @KZOR @Stosta @Clouds4Days @Trimerion @Richelo Killian @BubiSparks @Dietz @William Vermaak @BumbleBee @PSySpin

Reactions: Like 1 | Useful 1


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## Stosta

Chukin'Vape said:


> Ok guys - here is what I have found online, my Google search was : enyawreklaw + the country filter was added to show only sites from South Africa.
> 
> *PLEASE NOTE *- This is the initial search, meaning that we still need to figure out who of these suppliers are Mr Hardwicks resellers. Please feel free to add to this list, if you know of a supplier with enyawreklaw concentrates for sale!
> 
> https://www.theflavourmill.co.za/index.php?route=product/category&path=80_127
> https://blckvapour.co.za/collections/diy-or-die-concentrates
> https://www.vapejunction.co.za/collections/enyawreklaw
> https://www.vapechem.co.za/collections/enyawreklaw-concentrates
> https://www.vikingsvape.co.za/search?q=enyawreklaw


Well The Flavour Mill is covered...

https://www.ecigssa.co.za/enyawreklaw-and-the-flavour-mill.t34620/

Reactions: Like 1 | Useful 1


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## Chukin'Vape

Also guys - please dont see this as some kind of witch-hunt, i'm literally just trying to dissolve this problem and clean up our name.


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## boxerulez

Chukin'Vape said:


> Ok guys - here is what I have found online, my Google search was : enyawreklaw + the country filter was added to show only sites from South Africa.
> 
> *PLEASE NOTE *- This is the initial search, meaning that we still need to figure out who of these suppliers are Mr Hardwicks resellers. Please feel free to add to this list, if you know of a supplier with enyawreklaw concentrates for sale!
> 
> https://www.theflavourmill.co.za/index.php?route=product/category&path=80_127
> https://blckvapour.co.za/collections/diy-or-die-concentrates
> https://www.vapejunction.co.za/collections/enyawreklaw
> https://www.vapechem.co.za/collections/enyawreklaw-concentrates
> https://www.vikingsvape.co.za/search?q=enyawreklaw
> 
> @Rude Rudi @KZOR @Stosta @Clouds4Days @Trimerion @Richelo Killian @BubiSparks @Dietz @William Vermaak @BumbleBee @PSySpin




@method1 should be able to confirm, however, if they all stock his Hardwicks line, they should be covered for the concentrates.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Chukin'Vape

boxerulez said:


> @method1 should be able to confirm, however, if they all stock his Hardwicks line, they should be covered for the concentrates.



These all look like mr hardwicks re-sellers to me - but we will let @method1 confirm. Also @method1 - could you please post a link of your podcast where you discussed this in more detail. I'd really appreciate it.


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## Stosta

Thread has been moved into "Who has Stock" so it is open to supporting vendors.

Reactions: Like 1


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## spiv

Blends Of Distinction said:


> If I'm Not mistaken there is a company here that is offering a service like this.
> I was approached by them but for the life of me cannot remember their name



You're thinking of Alchemist Flavours (@HappyCamper)

Reactions: Like 1


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## method1

Chukin'Vape said:


> https://www.theflavourmill.co.za/index.php?route=product/category&path=80_127
> https://blckvapour.co.za/collections/diy-or-die-concentrates
> https://www.vapejunction.co.za/collections/enyawreklaw
> https://www.vapechem.co.za/collections/enyawreklaw-concentrates
> https://www.vikingsvape.co.za/search?q=enyawreklaw



Nothing shady going on here

Reactions: Like 5


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