# SS Wattage Mode vs. TC Mode????



## Petrus

What is the difference /pro's /con's of SS 316 in wattage mode or tc mode?
Thanks.


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## Alex_123

I hear that SS has the best of both worlds! Waiting for SS wire myself, not a TC fan but will see how it goes.
Keeping an eye out for this thread!


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## Kayzer

I'm a relatively new vaper but over the past two months I've been vaping almost exclusively on SS in TC mode.

Occasionally I'll move into VW if I'm not finding the right temp/watt combo for my juice. 

I have a Uwell crown and waiting for two new tanks coming without TC capable coils so I can explore a bit. 

Sent from my SM-N920C using Tapatalk


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## Christos

@Petrus, SS in TC. Disclaimer: my results. 
Pros
Coil tends to last longer. 
Cotton doesn't burn as TC kicks in. 

Cons 
316 SS isn't as accurate in TC mode as the curve has a smaller gradient I. E temp sensing may be 20 degrees or so.
I just adjust the temp up to compensate for this.
Not all devices cater for SS TC.

Reactions: Like 1


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## soofee

Been running 316L Ss now for a couple of days in TC and VW mode and i have to say its been more "cleaner and smoother" type of vape as regards to kanthal..currently rocking a 0.23 26g dual spaced coil in a RTA on my rx200 @ 45w 315 degrees and gotta say im loving life

Reactions: Thanks 1


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## Stevape;)

Also been on 24g S/S not sure what grade just bump the temp and wattage till Im happy. Coil stays clean waaay longer than kenthal. I have it in single coil setup in my Goliath v2 @ 0.25 ohm and couldn't be happier. 47 watts and 240C at the moment


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## Kayzer

Are clapton wraps possible with SS? I have never seen or heard of any.


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## Ezekiel

SS has a slightly higher heat capacity than Kanthal (but not by much) - so your wire will take a bit longer to heat up in VW mode. On the other hand, it has half the resistance - which means you will typically have larger builds in order to get to the same resistance (and can sometimes be a problem depending on what mod you want to run it on). Most people prefer lower resistance on a wire, but for me it all depends on the situation.

SS does last longer in some instances. However, I've actually managed to melt two or so SS wires (granted, was mostly my own fault - but I have noticed that it is easier, due to high-temp vaping, to mess your wire-post connection up). Personally, I don't like SS very much for VW vaping, but I haven't actually tried it that often, so this is not an official decree.

For TC vaping.... I'm in two minds. The TCR is much lower than any other TC-capable material. Practically speaking, that means that since your device can actually only measure the resistance accurately to two decimals (even the most advanced of them), it will have a slightly inaccurate measurement of the temperature in SS (whereas it is spot-on for Ti and Ni). The result of this is that you have a "jumping" temperature curve. Usually, when your mod hits the desired temp it will decrease the voltage in a discrete way (if older/crapper mod) or in a continuous way (newer mods). It tries to reduce the voltage as little as possible, so that the temp stays _the same_, rather than _drop and ramp up_ again and again.

For Ni or Ti, it would look like this:




where green is power (W), red is temp (deg. C) and purple is resistance (ohm). Notice that the live temperature first crosses the temp limit, and consequently a large decrease in power is seen, but afterwards the temp is very constant (very small fluctuations around the limit) with a more or less continuous drop in power.

For SS, it looks more like this:




Notice how the temperature starts to jump around the limit, and as a result, the power jumps like crazy as well? Now, this is for a _very_ tweaked TFR profile - it's about as good as I could get it, and tries to keep the wattage more or less continuous. Usually, the profile (if built from default TFR values, which are only good for one specific brand of SS wire, or if built from the linear TCR) is considerably worse.

As a result, the vape from SS in TC mode (as compared to Ti or Ni) sometimes is a little bit jumpy - you might get it hot quickly, but then it can die down and become anemic even quicker. On the other hand, it is possible to get a sudden "hot spot" in the vape as well - depending on your mod. My previous TC mod was horrible at this - I couldn't stand to do SS. This is particularly true if you have your cold resistance (base resistance of the atty when unvaped) a little bit fluctuating, because of ambient temperature, or connections, or the wick/wire settling, which will cause a large change in the temperature profile. 

I don't think most people would even notice, though. Its just for the OCD/fanatics who wants to have the best possible vape they can get.


ON the other hand, I love SS for one simple reason: Out of all the TC-capable wire, it is the one which is the easiest to build crazier things with. I've tried building parallel Titanium wires... no go. With SS, it is easy. SS wire twisted with Kanthal twisted with NiChrome? No problem. Hell, I think SS claptons would even be possible... or at least SS core with Kanthal claptoned around it. In addition, the fact that you can tweak it easier while building without oxidation scare every second is also awesome.

TL;DR: SS has slightly to low TCR to be absolutely perfect for TC vaping, but makes up for it due to its ease of building.

Reactions: Winner 3 | Informative 4


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## Nimatek

Kayzer said:


> Are clapton wraps possible with SS? I have never seen or heard of any.


Haven't seen any yet  Would truly love to get my hands on that!

Going to try make some twisted SS to play with over the weekend.


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## Christos

Nimatek said:


> Haven't seen any yet  Would truly love to get my hands on that!
> 
> Going to try make some twisted SS to play with over the weekend.


I'm enjoying the twisted SS in the Aromamizer.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Nimatek

Christos said:


> I'm enjoying the twisted SS in the Aromamizer.


Single or dual coil ? Can you run TC on the twisted SS ?


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## Ezekiel

Hey @Nimatek ! I dont know about Christos, but I run a triple-twisted SS single coil on a TFV4 in TC mode. The TCR remains the same (approximately). I also run doubly twisted dual coil SS in an ephro Stroh Mini RDA. Dual coil is a bit trickier, but possible!

Sent from my GT-I9195 using Tapatalk

Reactions: Like 1 | Thanks 1


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## Christos

Nimatek said:


> Single or dual coil ? Can you run TC on the twisted SS ?


Have a look here for my build: http://www.ecigssa.co.za/aromamizer-rdta-by-steam-crave.t16214/page-6
Single coil and it runs perfectly on TC.

Reactions: Thanks 1


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## Darryn Du Plessis

Petrus said:


> What is the difference /pro's /con's of SS 316 in wattage mode or tc mode?
> Thanks.


 The one gives you the ability to use high wattages without it giving off excess heat - due to the fact that it's limited at a certain temperature. So it will push out the high watts- but limit it to the degrees you want.

Also does anyone know the relation of TCR to TC? does it just measure the coil resistances easier than before? rx200 related


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## soofee

@Darryn Du Plessis lol that TCR tho is confusing...tried it last night on steam engine, gave me a headache


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## Ezekiel

Hey @Darryn Du Plessis and @soofee!

Please have a look at the thread in my signature - maybe that will help? If not...

The resistance of a wire increases with temperature. TCR (the coefficient of resistance) is an intrinsic property of the wire which relates the change in temperature to a change in resistance. Higher TCR (Nickel) means there is a large change in temperature for a large change in resistance, while lower TCR (SS) means there is a large change in temperature for a _small_ change in resistance.

Kanthal has an effective TCR of 0 (slightly above 0, but not measurably so). Therefore, as it increases in temp there is practically no change in resistance. Nickel on the other hand, will have a very large resistance increase for even a small change in temperature. SS is practically the lowest TCR (I would think) that we can go - we can _just_ measure the resistance for a given temperature change. 

For instance, if we have a Nickel wire with a resistance of 1 ohm at room temperature, then at 300 Celsius it will have a resistance of 2.68 ohm:




(with resistance on the y-axis and temperature on the x-axis)

On the other hand, if we have a Stainless Steel wire with a resistance of 1 ohm at room temperature, then at 300 Celsius it will have a resistance of 1.246 ohm:




You can see that the SS is a much smaller increase - and therefore much harder to accurately determine the change by the mod.

Kanthal, on the other hand, with a resistance of 1 ohm at RT, at 300 Celsius will have a resistance of 1.0007 at 300 Celsius:




... which is not measurable by the mod. IF we had a mod with a beast of a resistance meter - then yeah, we would be able to do Kanthal in TC (in theory at least...)

In practice, you just need the correct TCR for your wire - you don't have to worry about optimizing or fine-tuning it.

Lastly, @Darryn Du Plessis, please note that TC does not necessarily allow for higher wattages - I've actually noticed that I vape at lower wattages in TC mode. Regardless of whether it is in TC or VW mode, if the wire becomes too hot your cotton will burn. BUT: TC does allow a quick "spike" in power at the beginning of the vape to allow the wire to reach the desired temperature, after which it drops down to lower wattages to just keep the temperature at a specific point. In this regard, it is very much like certain oven or kettle elements - the element is switched on at max power until it is heated through, after which it is kept off or at low power in order to just keep the entire element at the same temperature.

@soofee - getting the right TCR from steam-engine is easy! In the wire wizard (right-most tab), select your wire type (not dependent on # of coils, ID or anything) and you will get the TCR in the left tab and the TFR (the actual point-by-point curve) in the top window.








The "TCR in vaping range" gives the TCR value which you can give your mod. It is 0.000879 written out. A lot of mods ask for the value in exponential notation - which means you would enter 879. Just check how your mod wants it!

Reactions: Winner 4 | Informative 2 | Useful 1


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## Darryn Du Plessis

Ezekiel said:


> Hey @Darryn Du Plessis and @soofee!
> 
> Please have a look at the thread in my signature - maybe that will help? If not...
> 
> The resistance of a wire increases with temperature. TCR (the coefficient of resistance) is an intrinsic property of the wire which relates the change in temperature to a change in resistance. Higher TCR (Nickel) means there is a large change in temperature for a large change in resistance, while lower TCR (SS) means there is a large change in temperature for a _small_ change in resistance.
> 
> Kanthal has an effective TCR of 0 (slightly above 0, but not measurably so). Therefore, as it increases in temp there is practically no change in resistance. Nickel on the other hand, will have a very large resistance increase for even a small change in temperature. SS is practically the lowest TCR (I would think) that we can go - we can _just_ measure the resistance for a given temperature change.
> 
> For instance, if we have a Nickel wire with a resistance of 1 ohm at room temperature, then at 300 Celsius it will have a resistance of 2.68 ohm:
> 
> View attachment 44142
> 
> 
> (with resistance on the y-axis and temperature on the x-axis)
> 
> On the other hand, if we have a Stainless Steel wire with a resistance of 1 ohm at room temperature, then at 300 Celsius it will have a resistance of 1.246 ohm:
> 
> View attachment 44143
> 
> 
> You can see that the SS is a much smaller increase - and therefore much harder to accurately determine the change by the mod.
> 
> Kanthal, on the other hand, with a resistance of 1 ohm at RT, at 300 Celsius will have a resistance of 1.0007 at 300 Celsius:
> 
> View attachment 44144
> 
> 
> ... which is not measurable by the mod. IF we had a mod with a beast of a resistance meter - then yeah, we would be able to do Kanthal in TC (in theory at least...)
> 
> In practice, you just need the correct TCR for your wire - you don't have to worry about optimizing or fine-tuning it.
> 
> Lastly, @Darryn Du Plessis, please note that TC does not necessarily allow for higher wattages - I've actually noticed that I vape at lower wattages in TC mode. Regardless of whether it is in TC or VW mode, if the wire becomes too hot your cotton will burn. BUT: TC does allow a quick "spike" in power at the beginning of the vape to allow the wire to reach the desired temperature, after which it drops down to lower wattages to just keep the temperature at a specific point. In this regard, it is very much like certain oven or kettle elements - the element is switched on at max power until it is heated through, after which it is kept off or at low power in order to just keep the entire element at the same temperature.
> 
> @soofee - getting the right TCR from steam-engine is easy! In the wire wizard (right-most tab), select your wire type (not dependent on # of coils, ID or anything) and you will get the TCR in the left tab and the TFR (the actual point-by-point curve) in the top window.
> 
> View attachment 44145
> 
> 
> View attachment 44146
> 
> 
> 
> The "TCR in vaping range" gives the TCR value which you can give your mod. It is 0.000879 written out. A lot of mods ask for the value in exponential notation - which means you would enter 879. Just check how your mod wants it!


 Thank you soooo much for this useful information. been a great help, Im still looking forward to getting the TC/R mode in the enxt 24 hours


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## Andre

Ezekiel said:


> Hey @Darryn Du Plessis and @soofee!
> 
> Please have a look at the thread in my signature - maybe that will help? If not...
> 
> The resistance of a wire increases with temperature. TCR (the coefficient of resistance) is an intrinsic property of the wire which relates the change in temperature to a change in resistance. Higher TCR (Nickel) means there is a large change in temperature for a large change in resistance, while lower TCR (SS) means there is a large change in temperature for a _small_ change in resistance.
> 
> Kanthal has an effective TCR of 0 (slightly above 0, but not measurably so). Therefore, as it increases in temp there is practically no change in resistance. Nickel on the other hand, will have a very large resistance increase for even a small change in temperature. SS is practically the lowest TCR (I would think) that we can go - we can _just_ measure the resistance for a given temperature change.
> 
> For instance, if we have a Nickel wire with a resistance of 1 ohm at room temperature, then at 300 Celsius it will have a resistance of 2.68 ohm:
> 
> View attachment 44142
> 
> 
> (with resistance on the y-axis and temperature on the x-axis)
> 
> On the other hand, if we have a Stainless Steel wire with a resistance of 1 ohm at room temperature, then at 300 Celsius it will have a resistance of 1.246 ohm:
> 
> View attachment 44143
> 
> 
> You can see that the SS is a much smaller increase - and therefore much harder to accurately determine the change by the mod.
> 
> Kanthal, on the other hand, with a resistance of 1 ohm at RT, at 300 Celsius will have a resistance of 1.0007 at 300 Celsius:
> 
> View attachment 44144
> 
> 
> ... which is not measurable by the mod. IF we had a mod with a beast of a resistance meter - then yeah, we would be able to do Kanthal in TC (in theory at least...)
> 
> In practice, you just need the correct TCR for your wire - you don't have to worry about optimizing or fine-tuning it.
> 
> Lastly, @Darryn Du Plessis, please note that TC does not necessarily allow for higher wattages - I've actually noticed that I vape at lower wattages in TC mode. Regardless of whether it is in TC or VW mode, if the wire becomes too hot your cotton will burn. BUT: TC does allow a quick "spike" in power at the beginning of the vape to allow the wire to reach the desired temperature, after which it drops down to lower wattages to just keep the temperature at a specific point. In this regard, it is very much like certain oven or kettle elements - the element is switched on at max power until it is heated through, after which it is kept off or at low power in order to just keep the entire element at the same temperature.
> 
> @soofee - getting the right TCR from steam-engine is easy! In the wire wizard (right-most tab), select your wire type (not dependent on # of coils, ID or anything) and you will get the TCR in the left tab and the TFR (the actual point-by-point curve) in the top window.
> 
> View attachment 44145
> 
> 
> View attachment 44146
> 
> 
> 
> The "TCR in vaping range" gives the TCR value which you can give your mod. It is 0.000879 written out. A lot of mods ask for the value in exponential notation - which means you would enter 879. Just check how your mod wants it!


Awesome explanation, thank you. How would you rate Nifethal 52 for use in both VW and TC mode?

Reactions: Funny 1


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