# Life Insurance and the "smoking" question



## umzungu (8/2/17)

Do you answer this "no" if you are a vaper?

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## Scouse45 (8/2/17)

With life insurance they come and test u. So I answered no and then i vapes 0mg nicotine for about 3 weeks. I was lucky enough for my test to come out with no nicotine but many guys I know that vape hav come up positive. It takes a while to get the nicotine out ur system

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## Tockit (8/2/17)

Scouse45 said:


> With life insurance they come and test u. So I answered no and then i vapes 0mg nicotine for about 3 weeks. I was lucky enough for my test to come out with no nicotine but many guys I know that vape hav come up positive. It takes a while to get the nicotine out ur system


Ok so you passed the test, what happens when the doctors report say they found traces of nicotine in your blood. Does your spouse or kids still get the million dollar pay out? or do they get screwed out of it due to a technicality?

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## spiv (8/2/17)

Tockit said:


> Ok so you passed the test, what happens when the doctors report say they found traces of nicotine in your blood. Does your spouse or kids still get the million dollar pay out? or do they get screwed out of it due to a technicality?



If the company is reputable, we calculate the sum of the difference in premiums that would have been paid had you ticked the smoker box over the lifetime of the policy and subtract it from the payout. That way it's as if you were paying the higher premium.

*I say "we", I mean "they".

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## Tockit (8/2/17)

spiv said:


> If the company is reputable, we calculate the sum of the difference in premiums that would have been paid had you ticked the smoker box over the lifetime of the policy and subtract it from the payout. That way it's as if you were paying the higher premium.
> 
> *I say "we", I mean "they".


But as we know, THEY will see it as a loop hole as its breach of contract. surely there is some fine print where you sign and say i declare all info provided as being accurate. So rather tick the yes box to avoid any issues i say.

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## Scouse45 (8/2/17)

Tockit said:


> Ok so you passed the test, what happens when the doctors report say they found traces of nicotine in your blood. Does your spouse or kids still get the million dollar pay out? or do they get screwed out of it due to a technicality?


They tested me on the spot urine test and it was negative so the sister filled that out. They not the FBI haha she does a simple quick test that's all. But with vaping there is a high likelihood of coming our positive and then yes they recalculate ur life insurance.

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## Nightwalker (8/2/17)

In my experience so far. With both medical aid and life, I answered no to smoking. I did add that I vape (just incase),

I was covered as a non smoker. Full benefits. With discovery for medical aid.
Hell, my doctor vapes.

Just disclose it

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## Stosta (8/2/17)

If you end up with some terrible disease or something and in hospital, and tests are done without you having the luxury of preempting them, they will find the nicotine and politely tell you they won't be covering ****. My broker is a vaper and he warned me about this, go with full disclosure, the slight adjustment in your premiums aren't worth the potential hassles it can cause further down the line IMO.

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## Nightwalker (8/2/17)

Like I stated. State you are a non smoker but you vape. My records are marked as such. Broker warned me and advised me the same

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## spiv (8/2/17)

Full disclosure is always the way to go. Also remember that weating a nicotine patch for a year means you're a non smoker for a year. Even if you do have nicotine in your system. You're not a smoker.
It's such a fine line. But hospitals can tell if you smoke. Nicotine isn't the only substance in a cig. Just disclose.

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## Blu_Marlin (8/2/17)

Ive just gone through this exercise recently. I was told by a certain individual at Liberty that if you declare non smoker and pass the test for life insurance and if you start smoking after the policy inception you don't have to declare it. I thought that it was too good to be true. Maybe they use the method @spiv mentioned to penalize you

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## SmokeyJoe (8/2/17)

It depends on each insurer. Mine, Sanlam, sees you as a smoker whether you vape, smoke or use patches. They come out and draw blood looking for nicotine in your blood. If positive for whatever reason, ur a smoker

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## spiv (8/2/17)

I worked in the actuarial product development team at a life insurer. I had to calculate this when it happened. 
But remember, a smokers premium is much higher than a non smoker. Depending on the age of the policy, it could add up to quite a bit. 
Medical aids just use it for stats. Your premium isn't personalised so vape away.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## DominionZA (9/2/17)

I recently changed insurance and had to do all the blood tests again. I put down smoker, buy bring on 2mg now, they picked up nothing. 
So even though I said smoker, there is no loading on my premiums. First time ever...

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## Necropolis (9/2/17)

I know PPS explicitly ask if you smoke tobacco products or vape - so I guess they see them as I in the same activity.

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## Kalashnikov (9/2/17)

If you put down you not a smoker. And the test comes up positive and you say you just chew nic gum or use patches. Then what?

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## Ashley A (9/2/17)

Good question.

Also, if the question is explicitly asking if you're a smoker, then you're being totally honest if you say no if you don't but vape. You can't be penalized for that. they'll have to prove you smoke if they want to try some loopholes later and they won't be able to if everyone in your work and personal life know you vape and don't smoke. It's not like they asked if you ingested nicotine in any way or form.

Different if like PPS, they actually mention smoking and vaping (yuck *cough*) in the same question but then maybe use an insurer who doesn't put the 2 together unless their smoking premium is lower than another as a non-smoker.

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## rogue zombie (9/2/17)

Oh crap, I said NO in a recent quote request for a new policy. I said so, because... I don't smoke.

Do I consume nicotine? - yes - but that I can get in medication to.

They need to get with the times. I went to Roco Mama's the other night, and they had a sign saying 'No smoking' and another saying 'No Vaping Ecigs'.

Clear cut, no grey areas left for interpretation.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Kalashnikov (9/2/17)

rogue zombie said:


> Oh crap, I said NO in a recent quote request for a new policy. I said so, because... I don't smoke.
> 
> Do I consume nicotine? - yes - but that I can get in medication to.
> 
> ...


I saw that very sign at Rocomamas. And the waiter said its true. I then went to the resturant directly opposite that didnt mind. Half my clouds were making thier way to Rocomama

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## Ashley A (9/2/17)

rogue zombie said:


> Oh crap, I said NO in a recent quote request for a new policy. I said so, because... I don't smoke.
> 
> Do I consume nicotine? - yes - but that I can get in medication to.
> 
> ...


Yes, it's grey if you're using a box mod. Hardly looks like an Ecig, just happens to do the same thing on a grander scale

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## spiv (9/2/17)

My suggestion would be to tick "Non-Smoker" but write next to it that you vape. 
Most of these application forms will ask how long you have quit for. The signed forms are kept and referred to in the event of any incident. The broker should know what to do. 
Remember, Life Insurers need to choose you just as much as you choose them. If they choose to cover you, they'll charge you what they feel is appropriate to the risk. It's not just a form and you're immediately covered. These issues should be resolved at time of cover. If they pick up that your smoke in their underwriting tests, they'll tell you that you're going to pay smoker rates and this can be updated in 3 months if you're still off the cigs and the tests show accordingly. 

If I ticked that I'm a smoker, they wouldn't care because they're covered for the maximum risk when it comes to that factor and I'd definitely be paying the higher amount.

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## Anneries (9/2/17)

IF I recall correctly, when I got my quote for Life insurance, Liberty did not only test for nicotine, they test for other traces as well. But unfortunately I did not give up the habit soon enough, so I am still listed as a smoker on their system. Almost 6 months clean than I will get another quote and hopefully pass this round.

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