# Why why why?



## Renoster (22/10/16)

Why is store bought juice so much more expensive than diy juice??? I mean you can make your own juice for around 20 to 30 rands per 50ml with nicotine.. And it is the same ingrediants in both diy and store bought... it doesnt make sense... or i am missing something??? I understand packaging, most store bought is steeped and did take some mixing skills to master, and also distribution costs and then shops also want their cut.. but wow the price difference is huge???


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## JsPLAYn (22/10/16)

Labour.. overheads. Risk


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## KZOR (22/10/16)

The only reason I can sell my juice cheaper is because I don't have overheads . Most bottles cost around R8 - 15. Quality labels around R4.
Then there is shipping as well. Labour charges.
I found juice works out around R1 - R2 per ml depending on % flavour and nic strength.
I went into DIY because I vape around 50ml every two days and shop juice would have cost way too much in my case.


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## Renoster (22/10/16)

KZOR said:


> The only reason I can sell my juice cheaper is because I don't have overheads . Most bottles cost around R8 - 15. Quality labels around R4.
> Then there is shipping as well. Labour charges.
> I found juice works out around R1 - R2 per ml depending on % flavour and nic strength.
> I went into DIY because I vape around 50ml every two days and shop juice would have cost way too much in my case.


What juices do you sell? Yea im also a bit heavy on juice, but some store bought juice just tastes soooo good haha.... i am making my own diy but still playing around as i am new to vaping


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## KZOR (22/10/16)

Not allowed to discuss it here but I only supply locally in any case. Sorry
Play around more ....took me months to get it to the way I like it.


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## Silver (22/10/16)

Hi @Renoster

Have moved this thread to "Who has stock" in case vendors want to comment directly on their products and pricing. 

It was previously posted in the general threads of the forum


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## Renoster (22/10/16)

Silver said:


> Hi @Renoster
> 
> Have moved this thread to "Who has stock" in case vendors want to comment directly on their products and pricing.
> 
> It was previously posted in the general threads of the forum


Okay thanx @Silver

Reactions: Like 1


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## Petrus (22/10/16)

I also went the DIY route, but with everything in life, it cost money to do it right. My cost on equipment and concentrates cost about R4000.00, and I only make juice for myself, but it is perfect. I haven't even do a cost of the juice, but I like it and that is all that counts.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Renoster (22/10/16)

KZOR said:


> Not allowed to discuss it here but I only supply locally in any case. Sorry
> Play around more ....took me months to get it to the way I like it.


Okay @KZOR atleast its fun to play around with diy, maybe ill create some "magic potion" sometime haha... but yea just curious about pricing as i also buy some juices while playing around..


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## Gazzacpt (22/10/16)

Renoster said:


> Why is store bought juice so much more expensive than diy juice??? I mean you can make your own juice for around 20 to 30 rands per 50ml with nicotine.. And it is the same ingrediants in both diy and store bought... it doesnt make sense... or i am missing something??? I understand packaging, most store bought is steeped and did take some mixing skills to master, and also distribution costs and then shops also want their cut.. but wow the price difference is huge???



Why buy a cake from a store when you can make it for half the price?

These juice makers put in serious time and money perfecting a juice that people will pay money for. Time, effort, raw materials and equipment cost money. You mix on a table in a kitchen but these guys need clean rooms. 

The shops that retail the juice have staff, rent and utilities to pay for. Local juice has come along way one of my favourite juices ever is a local one. At an average price of R150 for 30ml is that really expensive? I think its reasonable, I get to go sit at the shop talk about the new crazes taste some new juice and buy my bottle or 3. Some of the stores really go out of their way to accommodate customers like building coils for people struggling to get a build right and helping choose the right hardware and juice to match their taste profile.
Its not all about making max profit from juice taking all that into account now is it?



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Reactions: Like 3 | Winner 3


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## Renoster (22/10/16)

Gazzacpt said:


> Why buy a cake from a store when you can make it for half the price?
> 
> These juice makers put in serious time and money perfecting a juice that people will pay money for. Time, effort, raw materials and equipment cost money. You mix on a table in a kitchen but these guys need clean rooms.
> 
> ...


Yeah its reasonable but way more expensive then when i was smoking stinkies, and i agree there is many costs around it.. and there is some awesome flavours!!!! As i am typing there is scream in the rx, and DDD in the pico and maaaan its gooooood!!! The only thing making it cheaper then stinkies is cause i diy and build coils, imagine only buying store juice..m


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## KZOR (22/10/16)

@Gazzacpt 
Summed up perfectly.
Consider purchasing whiskey .......... you can get it cheap but the good ones are expensive for legitimate reasons. 
Great recipes take an enormous time investment and money spent so it is really not unreasonable pricing on great juices.


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## Renoster (22/10/16)

@Gazzacpt @KZOR yes its 100% true, and i wont stop buying store juices, if i taste it i also think 150 is a good price, but if i make it i think 150 is expensive but hey at the moment im not close to store bought haha


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## Soutie (22/10/16)

I can cut my hair at home why does my barber charge R150. Doesn't cost him anything to cut hair? 

As @Gazzacpt mentioned there is a whole chain of people making a living off store bought juice, from the mixologist to the label maker, the store owner and even the guy letting you taste the juice needs a cut of it. It is a lot pricier than making your own for good reasons and wether it is worth it or not is a personal thing. I make a majority of the juice I vape but I still buy a few bottles a month. Maybe it's to steal ideas on flavour profiles  but maybe it's cause I like to support the industry regardless. We will never know

Reactions: Like 3 | Winner 2


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## TommyL (22/10/16)

Also another thing to remember is juice makers aren't exactly getting R150 per bottle as a lot of guys wholesale their juice, that on top of lab and mixing equipment, a clean environment, all stainless steel surfaces, etc. it all adds up, sure you can make your own juice for a lot cheaper, but remember no one is forcing you to buy ready made juice. Another thing to remember is that our local market is one of the cheapest for e-liquid, let's take the UK for example, you pay around £5-10 for 20mls, and it's mediocre at best.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Renoster (22/10/16)

Thanx for all the answers! Im not against store juice, just realy curious about the price difference, will still support local juice brands as i am realy impressed! Diy and store bought i think is a good balance for the pocket and the taste buds, one juice i want to try is the xxx its not available at our local store..


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## Gazzacpt (22/10/16)

Renoster said:


> Thanx for all the answers! Im not against store juice, just realy curious about the price difference, will still support local juice brands as i am realy impressed! Diy and store bought i think is a good balance for the pocket and the taste buds, one juice i want to try is the xxx its not available at our local store..


You can order online from Vapour Mountain. Just buy the 100ml and shipping is reasonable. Top folk at VM.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Informative 1


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## CJ van Tonder (22/10/16)

And you cant go wrong with the VM4 they have as well

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Reactions: Informative 1


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## YeOldeOke (22/10/16)

Apart from the hard economics of manufacturing, retailing etc, there is something called intellectual property. Why does a programmer charge hundreds to thousands of $ for a program he wrote once, then sells a 1000 times? Surely you can do it yourself far cheaper.

But you can't do everything. Even more importantly, you can't do everything well. That's how an economy works.

I can go buy some paint, canvas and brushes for a pittance. Why value and admire, enjoy the works of Rembrandt et al when I can do it myself?

Can I do it myself? Sure. But I'll never be a Picasso.

Reactions: Agree 4 | Winner 1


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## RichJB (22/10/16)

I'm a believer in free market principles. If juice makers are charging too much, the bottom will fall out of their market. Or somebody will undercut them and scoop the market. I won't buy commercial juices so I DIY my own. But if there are enough vapers who are willing to buy commercial juices that they can make a decent living from it, then we all get what we want. I get the cheap DIY juices I want, DIY vendors make a decent income selling me DIY supplies, juice makers get a decent income from commercial juices, vapers who are unwilling to mix themselves get it done for them at a price. Everyone goes home happy. So why fix what ain't broke?

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 2


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## Cespian (24/10/16)

Alotta peeps dont actually realise how difficult it is to conceptualise a flavour from scratch. Yes, its super easy to get a recipe online, buy your concentrates according to that and spend around 5 to 15 minutes mixing up a few 100mls. 

Learning how to adapt each concentrate for various combinations costs a damn load of cash, time and effort. Whether its worth R150 for a 30ml is another story, but I understand a markup of 100 to 150%. Also, makers need to consider a clean, sterilised environment to create their products which adds to the cost. Naturally, someone making juice on their unsanitised PC desk would not experience these costs and efforts. 

One of my ADV's took 13 different versions to get it where I wanted it to be. 

So the juice portion of the final product could cost between R15 and R45 per 30ml, then RnD, Marketing, Labeling, Spillage, Distribution, Sampling and Profits needs to be added to this cost.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## Anneries (24/10/16)

As everyone said it is all the hidden costs that makes it more expensive. Most of us do not factor in the shipping costs or our time preparing, mixing and cleaning. Granted it will have a small effect for a diy'er, but take that into account and you will notice the price do go up marginally. We do not have to factor in the electricity price, or the cost of cleaning and sanitizing the equipment, since it is on such a small scale. Professional eJuice makers have to. 
As with most things in life, you can do everything yourself. I have proved to my self that I can make beer (now there is a place where craft beers are way more expensive than a diy beer), I can make a knife (dont get me started on these markups), I can build fences (R60 per running meter against R500). But can I do it at the quality the professionals can? 

I fully understand the question. And I share your sentiment, I am diy'ing (trying to at least) but I will keep on supporting the local market (private or via vendors) if I find something that I really like. 

Side note/questions: Does eJuice makers have to go through the same certification (health, safety and sanitation) that micro breweries or food processing companies have to before being allowed to sell to the public?


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## RichJB (24/10/16)

I don't think there are currently any certifications required for juice mixing. If and when the juice industry becomes regulated and international standards are finalised for vaping, I would imagine that applicable ISO standards will be adopted. ISO 22000 is the international food safety management standard. It should be noted, however, that it is usually a voluntary standard. It would be quite an expense for a "mom and pop" juice maker to implement ISO 22000. I imagine that there may be some less demanding and more affordable "clean facility" standards or guidelines which might be regulated as compulsory specifications.


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