# Nicotine



## MoneymanVape (14/5/16)

Why is it that my nic tast so strong.
My apps and calculations show the same amount but does tast alot stronger than is supposed to be. Ex 3mg nic in 50ml mix with 36ml nic strengh. So its 100/36 x. 3 (strengh you want) / 2(because you want half of 100 ml)???


----------



## NnoS (14/5/16)

I use this calculator to make things simple. http://ejuice.breaktru.com/ Takes all the legwork out of calculating percentages on your own.

If the nic still tastes strong it could be hot spots in your nic as you mix so give it a few gentle swirls before adding it to your mix. 

It may also be the brand of nic you are using. 

I'm pretty new at DIY but this is the information I have picked up on the web and on this forum. Experienced guys please correct me if I am wrong.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Slick (14/5/16)

NnoS said:


> I use this calculator to make things simple. http://ejuice.breaktru.com/ Takes all the legwork out of calculating percentages on your own.
> 
> If the nic still tastes strong it could be hot spots in your nic as you mix so give it a few gentle swirls before adding it to your mix.
> 
> ...





MoneymanVape said:


> Why is it that my nic tast so strong.
> My apps and calculations show the same amount but does tast alot stronger than is supposed to be. Ex 3mg nic in 50ml mix with 36ml nic strengh. So its 100/36 x. 3 (strengh you want) / 2(because you want half of 100 ml)???


I use about 8ml nic in a 100ml mix to get 3mg,how much did you use?

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## MoneymanVape (14/5/16)

4 ml and it is nic i bought from Valley vapour


----------



## Slick (14/5/16)

Apparently prime nic is the best on the market,I use it too,im no expert but guessing the flavour u used was abit harsh,not the nic,try another flavour or lower the % and see if its better


Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Silver (14/5/16)

Hi @MoneymanVape 
You are right, 4ml of 36mg/ml nic in a 50ml base should give you 2.88mg final nic concentration

Maybe its the flavour as @Slick says - what flavours are you using and as what percentage?
Or maybe its not mixed properly and you are getting "nic hot spots"
I am no DIY expert, just relaying what i have read before


----------



## MoneymanVape (15/5/16)

Oky will.lower it a bit and see what happens thanks


----------



## Zucas (15/5/16)

No matter what I did , I could not win with vg nic , always terribly strong , so switched to pg nic and its been a win win from there


----------



## MoneymanVape (15/5/16)

So vg nic is stronger?


----------



## moonunit (15/5/16)

Was actually thinking of posting something along these lines. I recently started DIY'ing and am using a scale from Valley Vapour. Mix everything spot on to the closest 0.01g and I find 3mg nic in my mixes very strong, I can taste the pepperyness and feel the head rush. In my latest batch I have dropped the nic to 2.5mg so will see how things go once the juices have steeped. Currently using 36mg PG prime nic that is stored in the freezer when not in use.

In terms of ease of use I would recommend PG based nic due to its low viscosity, unless of course you have PG allergy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Zucas (15/5/16)

No not stronger , but vg doesnt mix well with nic at all


----------



## Lord Vetinari (15/5/16)

moonunit said:


> Was actually thinking of posting something along these lines. I recently started DIY'ing and am using a scale from Valley Vapour. Mix everything spot on to the closest 0.01g and I find 3mg nic in my mixes very strong, I can taste the pepperyness and feel the head rush. In my latest batch I have dropped the nic to 2.5mg so will see how things go once the juices have steeped. Currently using 36mg PG prime nic that is stored in the freezer when not in use.
> 
> In terms of ease of use I would recommend PG based nic due to its low viscosity, unless of course you have PG allergy.
> 
> ...


I dont believe in scales. Each concentrate and mix has its own relative gravity. Besides recipes are written by percentage by VOLUME not mass.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## stevie g (15/5/16)

These mixes need 5 days to steep for the nicotine to blend and you need to be shaking every day. 

I have observed this time frame on large mixes of my own 25 litres etc. 

One thing that bothers me is I had a bottle of DDD and a Scream both at 3mg. DDD felt like 1.5mg and Scream felt like usual IE 3mg. I will be making a similar DDD recipe soon and see if the acetyl pyrazine is responsible for lowered throat hit.


----------



## Lord Vetinari (15/5/16)

Sprint said:


> These mixes need 5 days to steep for the nicotine to blend and you need to be shaking every day.
> 
> I have observed this time frame on large mixes of my own 25 litres etc.
> 
> One thing that bothers me is I had a bottle of DDD and a Scream both at 3mg. DDD felt like 1.5mg and Scream felt like usual IE 3mg. I will be making a similar DDD recipe soon and see if the acetyl pyrazine is responsible for lowered throat hit.


DDD = Bronuts. Or just gooi a bunch of CAP choc donut. Close enough really. No acetyl pyrazine in Debbie. It is Bronuts no jokes.


----------



## SAVaper (15/5/16)

I will keep the 5 days steep i mind. Thanks


----------



## stevie g (15/5/16)

Lord Vetinari said:


> DDD = Bronuts. Or just gooi a bunch of CAP choc donut. Close enough really. No acetyl pyrazine in Debbie. It is Bronuts no jokes.


you're right, I was thinking of rhodonite. Must be a mixing error or labelling error by the hardwicks manufacturer.


----------



## method1 (15/5/16)

Sprint said:


> you're right, I was thinking of rhodonite. Must be a mixing error or labelling error by the hardwicks manufacturer.



Post edited - can't discuss outside of my own sub forum

Reactions: Winner 1


----------



## stevie g (15/5/16)

method1 said:


> Hey sprint - I've not had any other feedback regarding this issue of strength, other than one batch being too strong when I briefly used a different nicotine supplier, feel free to pm me if you want a replacement.
> 
> As for the recipes, for clarity, they're not 100% the same as the ones published online, but close enough for DIY


it was a tasty Vape so no complaints just can't put my finger on the lack of throat hit. I'll buy another 3mg and a 6mg to spice it up if it is a bit too smooth next time.


----------



## method1 (15/5/16)

Sprint said:


> it was a tasty Vape so no complaints just can't put my finger on the lack of throat hit. I'll buy another 3mg and a 6mg to spice it up if it is a bit too smooth next time.



Cool. That's tough to answer I guess, a lot of my favourite (3mg) juices have no discernible throat hit - while some of them pack a real wallop in the throat department.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Ezekiel (15/5/16)

MoneymanVape said:


> Why is it that my nic tast so strong.
> My apps and calculations show the same amount but does tast alot stronger than is supposed to be. Ex 3mg nic in 50ml mix with 36ml nic strengh. So its 100/36 x. 3 (strengh you want) / 2(because you want half of 100 ml)???


Hey @MoneymanVape

It seems like you did everything right. I had exactly the same problem with my Nic tasting waaaay too harsh. Most of the time its Vg nic, and that can be solved (entirely) by giving your nic bottle a good shake right before adding. With PG its less necessary, but useful either way.

In VG, nicotine tends to form aggregates, which your tongue perceives as higher concentration.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## method1 (15/5/16)

Ezekiel said:


> Hey @MoneymanVape
> 
> It seems like you did everything right. I had exactly the same problem with my Nic tasting waaaay too harsh. Most of the time its Vg nic, and that can be solved (entirely) by giving your nic bottle a good shake right before adding. With PG its less necessary, but useful either way.
> 
> In VG, nicotine tends to form aggregates, which your tongue perceives as higher concentration.



A really, really good shake 
I found the same with VG based nic.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Ezekiel (15/5/16)

Lord Vetinari said:


> I dont believe in scales. Each concentrate and mix has its own relative gravity. Besides recipes are written by percentage by VOLUME not mass.


This is true, but you can either 

a) Get (or measure) specific gravities for different concentrates
b) Assume identical specific gravities for all concentrates and adjust your recipes by taste accordingly (in fact, this is how many of the well-known Reddit DIYers do it - the percentages they post is for identical specific gravities, even though it is not objectively true.

I really urge you to try scales! Unless you already have and mixing by volume just suits you better - then who am I to tell you what to do! 

Btw, converting weight to volume through specific gravities gives the same effect as mixing by volume...

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Andre (15/5/16)

Lord Vetinari said:


> I dont believe in scales. Each concentrate and mix has its own relative gravity. Besides recipes are written by percentage by VOLUME not mass.


Much easier to mix by weight. You set the conversion for PG and VG in the calculator once and it does it automatically. For concentrates it is so close to 1 on 1 between volume and mass and they take up the smallest part of your mix, that it is not worth the effort to get the specific gravities.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Informative 1


----------



## NnoS (15/5/16)

Now that you guys mention it, I've had the same issue. I store my nic in the fridge and VG in general is a pain to work with in lower temps. I used my VG nic predominantly and didn't really notice anything until I ran out of it and switched to my PG nic. 

My more recent concoctions have been smoother than the previous and I've realized that PG is far easier to work with as it is far less viscous. 

I was considering stocking up on VG nic again but I think I'll give PG a go for a bit longer and see how how that goes.


----------



## method1 (15/5/16)

I'm not sure if there's any science behind this, but I also find the PG nic stays "fresher" longer.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


----------



## NnoS (15/5/16)

Ezekiel said:


> This is true, but you can either
> 
> a) Get (or measure) specific gravities for different concentrates
> b) Assume identical specific gravities for all concentrates and adjust your recipes by taste accordingly (in fact, this is how many of the well-known Reddit DIYers do it - the percentages they post is for identical specific gravities, even though it is not objectively true.
> ...





Andre said:


> Much easier to mix by weight. You set the conversion for PG and VG in the calculator once and it does it automatically. For concentrates it is so close to 1 on 1 between volume and mass and they take up the smallest part of your mix, that it is not worth the effort to get the specific gravities.



I agree entirely. There may be issues of it not being as accurate as mixing by volume but, as mentioned, any decent app allows you to input the necessary density of your ingredients. Besides, DIY is a hobby for people that are largely amateurs and personally, I don't mind if things are a bit inaccurate. I'm just happy to don my mad scientist coat and mix up some juice that may be horrible, or may be brilliant, as long as I'm having fun with it.

Also, clean up on mixing with a scale is amazing. When I started with the syringes I managed to mix about 3 juices before being just sick of all the rinsing and spilling that it wasn't fun or worth it at all.


----------



## method1 (15/5/16)

Volume isn't necessarily more accurate, especially for small batches, unless you're using lab grade equipment. 

Beakers & such vary in accuracy from one manufacturer to another - and eyeballing the meniscus isn't the most accurate either.

For small batches, a scale is hard to beat.

Reactions: Agree 3 | Informative 1


----------



## Lord Vetinari (16/5/16)

Andre said:


> Much easier to mix by weight. You set the conversion for PG and VG in the calculator once and it does it automatically. For concentrates it is so close to 1 on 1 between volume and mass and they take up the smallest part of your mix, that it is not worth the effort to get the specific gravities.


OK I will give it a whirl then! If I may ask which calculator do you use, mine is VERY basic indeed, only works in volume... Scales seem cheap enough. Any recommendations as to types/brands? I only have kitchen and bathroom scales lol


----------



## Andre (16/5/16)

Lord Vetinari said:


> OK I will give it a whirl then! If I may ask which calculator do you use, mine is VERY basic indeed, only works in volume... Scales seem cheap enough. Any recommendations as to types/brands? I only have kitchen and bathroom scales lol


I use the software downloadable here: http://diyjuicecalculator.com/
This is a good guide to mixing by weight: https://www.reddit.com/r/DIY_eJuice/comments/2iq3km/botboy141_guide_to_mixing_by_weight/
Am using this scale: https://valleyvapour.co.za/product/diy-e-liquid-mixing-scale/
Valley Vapour also has this scale with calibration weights included: https://valleyvapour.co.za/product/diy-digital-mixing-scale-incl-calibration-weights/
Find these pump glass pipettes very useful for adding Nic, PG and VG in small amounts to the bottle on the scale: https://www.blckvapour.co.za/collections/accesories/products/pipette-pump

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


----------



## Lord Vetinari (16/5/16)

Thank You @Andre

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## rogue zombie (16/5/16)

Ya @Lord Vetinari dont even worry about individual weights of concentrates - the difference is not worth going through the effort of actually noting them.

I still measure the VG and PG with a syringe, but mixing by weight, I had no mistakes until my previous EL-CHEAPO scale went bonkers.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## MoneymanVape (16/5/16)

Ezekiel said:


> Hey @MoneymanVape
> 
> It seems like you did everything right. I had exactly the same problem with my Nic tasting waaaay too harsh. Most of the time its Vg nic, and that can be solved (entirely) by giving your nic bottle a good shake right before adding. With PG its less necessary, but useful either way.
> 
> In VG, nicotine tends to form aggregates, which your tongue perceives as higher concentration.


I do shake nic before adding. Um thinking i store nic in the fridge could that cause something?


----------



## method1 (16/5/16)

MoneymanVape said:


> I do shake nic before adding. Um thinking i store nic in the fridge could that cause something?



Nope that's good. You have to wait for it to warm up a bit so you can shake it properly.

Reactions: Like 2


----------

