# Halo Liquids, Why the Secrecy Around Pg/Vg?



## Danny

Im a little bit surprised by this, I dont like a lack of transparency when I am paying good money for a product I am going to inhale. I have been searching to find the Pg/Vg ratios of halo liquid, and all that I have found are snotty responses about proprietary information. To be honest I wont order it now, I want to know because up to 60 % Pg I am happy, but above that and I am not at all! So I as a customer dont know if I will be happy once buying the product, and they (Halo) wont give me the information I need to ensure I actually want it. Nor will they give it to vendors selling their goods. Other companies print it on their bottles standard. How is knowing the ratio going to enable me to clone their product. I am not asking for a goddam list of flavour compounds. Regulation will hopefully force companies to do that, not the amounts but the list, the list that would give us material data safety sheets and allow us to make informed decisions beyond, 'its food grade, its ok'

The response from them definitely says they are making too much money, too quickly to care about the individual customer. For all I know everything about their product could be bad, and now because they withhold simple information I dont and will not trust them. Even 5 pawns was very courteous and caring when I contacted them! To those out there that have ordered I hope its amazing, and every bit as good tasting as its made out to be. I will only be tasting once I sample from someone else, cant order a bottle and not be able to vape it because the top secret Pg ratio is too high. What a****les (excuse the french)!

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


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## Cat

yeah it does seem odd, must be a decision they took - give _no_ information. If you were trying to copy it, getting the PG-VG right would be the easy part - just try 60-40, then 70-30...

Reactions: Agree 1


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## KieranD

Being a high end liquid, I can guarantee the PG will be well, well under 60%...

Reactions: Like 1


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## Danny

KieranD said:


> Being a high end liquid, I can guarantee the PG will be well, well under 60%...


Sadly from the reading I have done it is the opposite. The closest to a real answer I have gotten is there is substantially more PG than VG


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## Smokey

@KieranD howsit man, where in meyersdal are u situated


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## KieranD

Smokey said:


> @KieranD howsit man, where in meyersdal are u situated



PM'ing you  Not going to hijack the thread @Smokey


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## andro

Can somebody explain why pg vg ratio is so important ? ( sorry if is a dumb question)


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## Cat

Danny said:


> Sadly from the reading I have done it is the opposite. The closest to a real answer I have gotten is there is substantially more PG than VG


My impression is that it's typically 60, 70, maybe 80. But that's in general, not "high-end" like Kieran said. 
i know what you mean. i started with Twisp which is 50-50 and the person that had been advising me, he mixed his at 50-50 and i decided to stick to that, when i ordered from mbv. At the same time, i tried some Liqua and some FeelLife whatever that was apparently 70-80 PG and i didn't like it - kind of rough on the throat, not quite the same thing as throat hit.


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## BhavZ

andro said:


> Can somebody explain why pg vg ratio is so important ? ( sorry if is a dumb question)


PG/VG is generally personal preference but what I have gathered from listening to conversations and personal experience is:

1) some people have an allergy to PG and thus try to steer clear of it (RIP has a PG allergy)
2) The higher the PG the harsher the vape (from my understanding the cheaper juices tend to have higher pg so as to get the flavour to be more pronounced as a cheaper solution to using more flavour with VG)
3) The more PG a juice has the less dense the clouds are compared to a juice with higher VG
4) Higher VG generally means a smoother vape

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 4 | Informative 1


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## Alex

The info I was able to find, indicates a 70/30 PG/VG ratio. 

Unconfirmed of course.


via iphone

Reactions: Like 1


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## Cat

Generally smoother, but there's more to it, i realised. (Or at least i think so.) Harshness on the throat.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Thanks 1


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## KieranD

BhavZ said:


> PG/VG is generally personal preference but what I have gathered from listening to conversations and personal experience is:
> 
> 1) some people have an allergy to PG and thus try to steer clear of it (RIP has a PG allergy)
> 2) The higher the PG the harsher the vape (from my understanding the cheaper juices tend to have higher pg so as to get the flavour to be more pronounced as a cheaper solution to using more flavour with VG)
> 3) The more PG a juice has the less dense the clouds are compared to a juice with higher VG
> 4) Higher VG generally means a smoother vape



Further to this, PG carries flavour better than VG. This is the reason why cheaper liquids are higher in PG - less expensive flavour concentrates

Reactions: Thanks 1


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## andro

BhavZ said:


> PG/VG is generally personal preference but what I have gathered from listening to conversations and personal experience is:
> 
> 1) some people have an allergy to PG and thus try to steer clear of it (RIP has a PG allergy)
> 2) The higher the PG the harsher the vape (from my understanding the cheaper juices tend to have higher pg so as to get the flavour to be more pronounced as a cheaper solution to using more flavour with VG)
> 3) The more PG a juice has the less dense the clouds are compared to a juice with higher VG
> 4) Higher VG generally means a smoother vape


So is vg is better why they use pg as well? ( in all liquids)


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## Marzuq

I agree @Danny . it is strange that they choose not to disclose something as simple as a pg/vg ratio. On the other hand though we all have a choice as to whether we want to risk it and try the juice or not. With most new juices i try its a risk of maybe i like it maybe i dont. Unless you are able to sample every juice before buying it its always going to be a risk. I understand that your have a preference toward pg and without the pg/vg ratios its a risk for you. I feel you on that one as i am the same with menthol juices. Best you give this one a miss just to be safe and avoid any negative effects.
That being said. I know the vendor marketing and selling this juice to be very upstanding. My suggestion is to PM them if you really do want to try this juice and see if they are able to sort something out for wrt to sampling. The manufacturer of the juice may be super secretive but our local boys are alot more forthcoming.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 2


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## BhavZ

andro said:


> So is vg is better why they use pg as well? ( in all liquids)


That you would need ask one of the DIY experts to be accurate but my understanding is that 100% would result in zero flavour and is too thick to wick properly

Reactions: Agree 3 | Informative 1


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## KieranD

andro said:


> So is vg is better why they use pg as well? ( in all liquids)



Throat hit but most importantly is that it carries the flavour
Also thins the liquid a tad so to reduce the chance of dry hits in certain devices through poor wicking

Reactions: Agree 2 | Informative 1


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## free3dom

From my personal (but limited) DIY experience (see here) I have found that while PG does make it slightly harsher on the throat it is not really that pronounced (at least it wasn't to me). Aditionally, I think that the premium juices use various additives in order to "smooth out" the flavours and reduce the harshness (which obviously the cheaper liquids don't, hence the harsher tastes due to high PG for flavour). 

Obviously due to the fact that some people are allergic to PG (to varying degrees) and even in rare cases VG this is troublesome that they do not specify their ratios as it REALLY does not IMHO affect the "secretness" of their juice that much - I'm sure it can be easily discovered by mixing ratios and just observing the consistency of the liquid (VG is thick and PG much less so). That said, I guess the number of people who care about this info is small enough for them not to care about it - sad actually, but will probably not have a major impact on their sales.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## free3dom

BhavZ said:


> That you would need ask one of the DIY experts to be accurate but my understanding is that 100% would result in zero flavour and is too thick to wick properly



Actually 100% VG (it wasn't pure 100% though) worked just fine in my experiments...flavour was decent (maybe a little duller, but I could have compensated with increased amounts). Wicking was also not a problem in my RTA (not sure about clearomizers).

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Cat

So, therefore, consistency. 

With regard to Halo, if you want to try it, based on its popularity... it might be 60-40, it might be 70-30. But some juices that are 70-30 might not bother us like some we tried did. Harshness could be affected by other ingredients too. So from there we get into the reasons why "high-end" juices - which means those brand names that are so popular - don't offer choices of PG-VG and so on.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Danny

For me on the Halo I am just going to wait until some walks past me on the street. Chase the person down, the whole time screaming just let me try the juice, is it too thin and harsh dammit? I totally get that at this point it is their right to not disclose, my right to choose not to vape it etc.

I just think it is silly. If the ratio was disclosed my order wouldve been in. I will still after sampling place the order. For me it is not really about worrying if I like the flavour, I take that risk all the time. Just the blend, 60% plus Pg is like 24mg nic juice to me. It is seemingly not common but many vapers have the same reaction to Pg, without any accompanying Pg allergy type reactions.

I will console myself and alleviate the disappointment by purchasing something else I really wanted to try properly. Halo will have to wait a while until either they get over themselves or I steal some.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Marzuq

Danny said:


> For me on the Halo I am just going to wait until some walks past me on the street. Chase the person down, the whole time screaming just let me try the juice, is it too thin and harsh dammit? I totally get that at this point it is their right to not disclose, my right to choose not to vape it etc.
> 
> I just think it is silly. If the ratio was disclosed my order wouldve been in. I will still after sampling place the order. For me it is not really about worrying if I like the flavour, I take that risk all the time. Just the blend, 60% plus Pg is like 24mg nic juice to me. It is seemingly not common but many vapers have the same reaction to Pg, without any accompanying Pg allergy type reactions.
> 
> I will console myself and alleviate the disappointment by purchasing something else I really wanted to try properly. Halo will have to wait a while until either they get over themselves or I steal some.



@Danny Halo is on my list to buy. Unfortunately my vape budget has been shot for the month and probably next too. But as soon as i get it i will give you a shout and you are more than welcome to come try some of mine. No chasing down the road required lol

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## Danny

@Marzuq you sir are a true legend! Would be fantastic to have a mini meet up, you after all are one bloke I probably wouldnt chase down the street lol.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 3


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## Tom

I prefer VG juices as well, if there is a choice I will always opt for higher VG, i.e. GVC I ordered in 100 VG although it was available in 50/50 as well. There are 2 reasons for my choice: to minimize the harshness in the throat that I have experienced in the past, and because I love clouds 
AFAIK Nicotickets H1N1 is 65/35 PG/VG.....this is a prime example for no harshness at all, although its fairly high PG. 

Nonetheless, to me its a no-go for a company not disclosing the PG/VG ratio. It seems to be the only liquid manufacturer keeping it a secret.....

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


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## Marzuq

Danny said:


> @Marzuq you sir are a true legend! Would be fantastic to have a mini meet up, you after all are one bloke I probably wouldnt chase down the street lol.



Mini Vape meet. all the right words lol. Ill keep you posted. may just decide to break the wallet and get it now anyways

Reactions: Funny 1


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## BigGuy

@Danny Sorry that you feel this way i truly am. Just one question, i assume you smoked analogs before taking up vaping to quit the habit? I assume you asked the manufacturer what chemicals where in your analogs based on your post. If this was some fly by night company i would say yeah lets question it but this is HALO we are talking about here. Its like SAB giving you their brewing recipe or quantities do you think they will give it to you i don't thinks so. My 2 cents use it don't use it but you have a lovely vaptastic day now.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Stephen Rowley

I have tried many different blends, cant say that it makes a huge difference to me, but then my favourite coffee is riccoffy so it does not say to much about my taste, @Danny you crack me up, the picture I had in my mind of you chasing someone down the street nearly bought a tear to my eyes.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Danny

Sorry to critisize a product brought in by sirvape. I must say that in fact if questioned SAB would most likely provide me with the information they are legally obliged to, the equivalent question to them though would be what percentage water is in your brew, if they think I can copy their brew from that they would just be dumb. At this point halo isnt obliged to but they will be eventually have to disclose the information. I dont really care how big their name is, in fact the bigger their name is the more they should attempt to care about the little guys. One of their competitors was even happy to tell me if a flavouring compound was in their juice when asked. 

As for the analog story, I was an addict by 8 years old, so no my very adept and mature 8 year old self failed to contact british american tabacco to ask them what was in their product and why I was so addicted to it. But the detraction is noted and dismissed. Whilst at it I may point out that the bigger the name the more a company thinks they can hide behind it. A great example comes from the melamine pet food scare, everyone had a good go at whiskas and royal canin, ummmm hills science diet also had major problems, despite its big name and in fact ended one of my animals. Not interested in arguing, but wont be put down by a brand name.


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## VandaL

I was also curious about the ratio used in their juices, it is really strange why they wouldn't disclose this. I queried with sir vape and they were extremely forth coming, they pasted the whole conversation they had with Halo. 

According to the rep. From Halo these are all High pg juices and therefore not for me. Had to remove their juices from my cart, but when jimmy's come in all be all over it

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 2


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## Arthster

To be honest, I do get what @Sir Vape is saying, But if you hand me a juice and I cant see the mix up on the label I tend to put it back on the shelf. I had a couple of juices that where high PG and wasted tons of money on them. My system does not like high PG and a 50/50 mix seems to be my sweet spot. 

Unfortunately I agree with @Danny on this one. If Halo wont tell me the % in the bottle. I am rather going to skip then try it and waist another couple of bucks.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Sir Vape

@Arthster and @Danny 

Hey guys. Sorry for the late reply. Been a bit snowed under today with orders. Okay yeah I def get what your saying and Halo will in the future have to disclose the ratio mix with new standards coming into place. I have just been chatting to them again and they assured me the mix is between 60-70pg. So for those that are pg sensitive I suggest not to purchase. They are not the only guys that keep their ratio under wraps though and seems to be the norm with a few of the big boy mixers. Not sure why and find it a bit silly but there must be valid reason for their secrecy.

The one thing I can about Halo through dealing with them that they are very helpful and honest (except the exact ratio ha ha) about what their juices contain. Just scan their website or read article on Halo and you will see how important quality & approved ingredients are that are used in their juices. http://www.halocigs.com/faqs/eliquid.html 

We are very fussy about what juices we supply. Halo we have been working on for the past couple months to get in, not only because of how awesome and complex their range is but their dedication to vaping in general. 

Any other queries you have please just pop me an email

Reactions: Like 3 | Winner 4


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## Arthster

Thanks @Sir Vape. Very useful information and really glad that they are so dedicated to supply the vaping community with descent juice and a quality product. Maybe one of these days my system decides to let go of its PG affliction, I would really love to try some there products.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Donnie (USA)

Danny said:


> Im a little bit surprised by this, I dont like a lack of transparency when I am paying good money for a product I am going to inhale. I have been searching to find the Pg/Vg ratios of halo liquid, and all that I have found are snotty responses about proprietary information. To be honest I wont order it now, I want to know because up to 60 % Pg I am happy, but above that and I am not at all! So I as a customer dont know if I will be happy once buying the product, and they (Halo) wont give me the information I need to ensure I actually want it. Nor will they give it to vendors selling their goods. Other companies print it on their bottles standard. How is knowing the ratio going to enable me to clone their product. I am not asking for a goddam list of flavour compounds. Regulation will hopefully force companies to do that, not the amounts but the list, the list that would give us material data safety sheets and allow us to make informed decisions beyond, 'its food grade, its ok'
> 
> The response from them definitely says they are making too much money, too quickly to care about the individual customer. For all I know everything about their product could be bad, and now because they withhold simple information I dont and will not trust them. Even 5 pawns was very courteous and caring when I contacted them! To those out there that have ordered I hope its amazing, and every bit as good tasting as its made out to be. I will only be tasting once I sample from someone else, cant order a bottle and not be able to vape it because the top secret Pg ratio is too high. What a****les (excuse the french)!



Danny I have issues with high levels of 'PG'. When I contacted HALO I was told that the level of 'PG -vs VG' is :... proportionally higher; so I take from that it is higher than 50% PG even though the representative claimed she did not know the 'exact proportion' as that info was not supplied. I suppose the bottom line is that 'PG' could be anywhere from 51% to 99% which I think is a stretch. 

Good luck if you decide to try it; I cannot even give it a try as any 'PG' level above 30% sends me to a place I don't want to go!

Donnie

Reactions: Like 2 | Thanks 1


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## RevnLucky7

Danny said:


> Sadly from the reading I have done it is the opposite. The closest to a real answer I have gotten is there is substantially more PG than VG



Come visit me.... I'll give you a few bottles.... then decide for yourself...
From what I can phantom it doesn't look much different than a 50/50 blend does... HOWEVER... it did wick extremely fast through my Atlantis that over saturated the coil and caused spit backs. Which makes me think 60PG/40VG.... this is just speculation though.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Marzuq

Sir Vape said:


> @Arthster and @Danny
> 
> Hey guys. Sorry for the late reply. Been a bit snowed under today with orders. Okay yeah I def get what your saying and Halo will in the future have to disclose the ratio mix with new standards coming into place. I have just been chatting to them again and they assured me the mix is between 60-70pg. So for those that are pg sensitive I suggest not to purchase. They are not the only guys that keep their ratio under wraps though and seems to be the norm with a few of the big boy mixers. Not sure why and find it a bit silly but there must be valid reason for their secrecy.
> 
> The one thing I can about Halo through dealing with them that they are very helpful and honest (except the exact ratio ha ha) about what their juices contain. Just scan their website or read article on Halo and you will see how important quality & approved ingredients are that are used in their juices. http://www.halocigs.com/faqs/eliquid.html
> 
> We are very fussy about what juices we supply. Halo we have been working on for the past couple months to get in, not only because of how awesome and complex their range is but their dedication to vaping in general.
> 
> Any other queries you have please just pop me an email


@Sir Vape as always your customer service levels are at its peak. Big up to you for pushing and relating the required info to the members. I'm certain that the new information will clear up all concerns with regard to the pg/vg questions.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## BigGuy

@Marzuq thanks dude, yeah we cant win em all and can't keep everyone happy all of the time but we will try our hardest to do so. Thank you for your vote of confidence it is much appreciated.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Marzuq

BigGuy said:


> @Marzuq thanks dude, yeah we cant win em all and can't keep everyone happy all of the time but we will try our hardest to do so. Thank you for your vote of confidence it is much appreciated.



In all my dealing with Sir vape I had only great experiences. I believe that as long as you are putting as much info forward about the liquids as you have available then you are tops. On the website I noticed you stated no alcohol used in production. For me that there alone is a step in the right direction as you already show that you are catering for and being open and forthcoming about what your non alcohol consuming client base can vape.

I tip my hat to the sir vape team

Reactions: Agree 3 | Thanks 1


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## Cat

VandaL and Arthster too? it seems quite common. What is the problem, the symptoms?


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## Arthster

Cat said:


> VandaL and Arthster too? it seems quite common. What is the problem, the symptoms?



I get insane throat burn, can't even call it throat hit, it would be more in line with a throat sucker bunch to ba... kidneys. And that from vaping on my old ego-T with a 2 ohm Kangertech mini

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Cat

What ratio is Liqua? i think i read somewhere that it's 70:30 ...i'll try google. i didn't like it when i started vaping but then a couple months later i quite liked the Liqua Turkish that i'd had in the cupboard. i was going to order a lot of NET juice at 60-40 instead of 50-50 but now i wonder...like maybe i should try Liqua again to see. 
PS: Some say 70-30, some say 60-40.


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## Arthster

I also tried Liqua when i started and that was a little harsh for me as well. I tried it not to long ago, (Went out and forgot juice at home) I'm not sure if it was real or a clone, I did buy it from a little dodgy shop that sells questionable vapes, but that wasn't to bad at all.


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## Oupa

In the beginning most juices were 100% PG or at least 80% PG. It is a bit strange that they won't disclose the ratio though, but I would put it between 60 and 70 % as well. Remember there are smoothing agents some companies use to tone down the harshness of PG and give it a fuller feel/taste. I would say if you do not have physical side effects like rashes, sore throat, coughing, etc from high PG juices, it is well worth the try.

And yes, Liqua is 70/30, so if you can do Liqua you can certainly do Halo.

Reactions: Like 4 | Thanks 1 | Informative 2


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## VandaL

I don't have any PG allergies it's just I prefer high VG juices  50/50 is kinda where I draw my limit. When I first started messing around with vaping juices were 15% VG 85% PG


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## Batfish

Hi Guys, me again, got the Eleaf iStick as recommended by forum members but did not get the Nautilus aspire, just sticking with the one on the iStick. I am sooooo happy with my Christmas present so thank you all for the recommendations.
I also got the Liqua Vanilla juice. I must admit not as happy with the juice as it has a slightly sour taste.
I have been reading all the post on juices and still can't make up my mind of what to order.
I think what I want is something that tastes smoother, well rounded, with a medium hit as I find the 3.5v is about the same as smoking my Dunhill Infinite Light cig. Not too sweet though. The Liqua also seems to burn the throat a bit.
What are your suggestions as I do value your experiences.

Reactions: Like 1


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## free3dom

Hi @Batfish, glad you got sorted with the iStick...it's a great little device. Usually it does not come with a atomizer, but if yours did then it was included by the vendor and that's just fine if it works for you 

The Liqua juices are a bit "harsh". I'd recommend you try some of our locally made liquids, which are very high quality 

Flavour is very subjective and I am quite reluctant to recommend something specific. It is unfortunately something you have to experiment with in order to find what you like.

From the recent polls done here on the forum I would have to recommend you head over to the VapourMountain site, their liquids have consistently rated very high among our members. I'm sad to admit I have not personally gotten round to them (it's on my list) but I trust that our forum members have very refined pallets. Have a look at the various flavours on offer and pick what you like - it is almost guaranteed there will be something you like. As a new vaper I would suggest 18mg, but 12mg might be a bit smoother (you might vape a bit more frequently using 12mg to get your nicotine fix).

Lately, I've been vaping a lot of juices from SkyBlue, which I would personally recommend very highly. Again just have a look at the flavours on offer and pick your preference. From them you can also get a Sample Box which contains 10 different flavours (in small amounts), allowing you find what you like without breaking the bank.

Of course there are many other vendors on here that make and sell liquids, and all are of the same high quality - I wish I could name them all, but that would just be overwhelming. So head over to this thread for a list and contact details.

Best of luck finding your flavour - it's a great journey

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## Batfish

free3dom said:


> Hi @Batfish, glad you got sorted with the iStick...it's a great little device. Usually it does not come with a atomizer, but if yours did then it was included by the vendor and that's just fine if it works for you
> 
> The Liqua juices are a bit "harsh". I'd recommend you try some of our locally made liquids, which are very high quality
> 
> Flavour is very subjective and I am quite reluctant to recommend something specific. It is unfortunately something you have to experiment with in order to find what you like.
> 
> From the recent polls done here on the forum I would have to recommend you head over to the VapourMountain site, their liquids have consistently rated very high among our members. I'm sad to admit I have not personally gotten round to them (it's on my list) but I trust that our forum members have very refined pallets. Have a look at the various flavours on offer and pick what you like - it is almost guaranteed there will be something you like. As a new vaper I would suggest 18mg, but 12mg might be a bit smoother (you might vape a bit more frequently using 12mg to get your nicotine fix).
> 
> Lately, I've been vaping a lot of juices from SkyBlue, which I would personally recommend very highly. Again just have a look at the flavours on offer and pick your preference. From them you can also get a Sample Box which contains 10 different flavours (in small amounts), allowing you find what you like without breaking the bank.
> 
> Of course there are many other vendors on here that make and sell liquids, and all are of the same high quality - I wish I could name them all, but that would just be overwhelming. So head over to this thread for a list and contact details.
> 
> Best of luck finding your flavour - it's a great journey


Thank you so much for the advice. I understand you not being able to recommend a juice as palates are so different.
I like the idea of the sample box, will go over to the site and have a look see. Such fun this vaping journey!

Reactions: Agree 2


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## free3dom

Batfish said:


> Thank you so much for the advice. I understand you not being able to recommend a juice as palates are so different.
> I like the idea of the sample box, will go over to the site and have a look see. Such fun this vaping journey!



You are very welcome!

I personally really enjoyed the sample box, as it gave me a great "range" of tastes as a baseline for selecting flavours. I discovered a handful of flavours I liked that I would otherwise most likely never have tried

Reactions: Like 1


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