# Voting for Top of the Top, Best of the Best - Local Juice 2017



## Andre (18/7/17)

The winner in each of the categories (beverage, fruit, tobacco, dessert, bakery, menthol and mint, breakfast) now go head to head to determine the ONE juice to claim title to best of the best of local juices in 2017.

In case of a deadlock, I may use a casting vote.

You have one vote only.

Reactions: Like 8


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## Andre (20/7/17)



Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 10


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## Silver (20/7/17)

Andre said:


>



Classic @Andre !

Reactions: Like 1


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## Strontium (21/7/17)

Vote with your...errr I mean, Vote for Weiner.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## CMMACKEM (21/7/17)

I really wish the politics in the industry were not as bad as they are. Had some really questionable winners last year and some amazing juice which did not even get a nomination. I am however really happy with some of the deserved winners this year.


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## Andre (21/7/17)

CMMACKEM said:


> I really wish the politics in the industry were not as bad as they are. Had some really questionable winners last year and some amazing juice which did not even get a nomination. I am however really happy with some of the deserved winners this year.


I am so glad the competition has improved in your estimation @CMMACKEM. Next year it shall even be better. Thank you for your participation.

Reactions: Like 2


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## KZOR (21/7/17)

I have a huge problem with this voting system and have to get it off my chest.
It is my understanding that this prestige title is an Ecigssa initiative and as such only active members should be allowed to cast a vote.
When i look at some of the voting members credentials it seems more like a loyalty vote than a honest opinion vote.
There are voters that have been members for three years with only 5 posts and others with no posts at all.
I see one juice has a large amount of voters from the same town as the company.
Let's quickly examine the following scenario ......... i have a nominated juice but as a teacher i also have access to a large loyal audience base. If i get 50 of them to create accounts and then have the freedom to vote ..... is that fair?
I know this is an extremely difficult thing to police but could we please at least place a minimum post count of 50 on the voters. This will be an indication that more active members have a vote that will count because it was earned.
I am by no means saying that these juices don't earn a spot as potential winners but i would like to know that it earned the title on merit.

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 4


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## Strontium (21/7/17)

KZOR said:


> I have a huge problem with this voting system and have to get it off my chest.
> It is my understanding that this prestige title is an Ecigssa initiative and as such only active members should be allowed to cast a vote.
> When i look at some of the voting members credentials it seems more like a loyalty vote than a honest opinion vote.
> There are voters that have been members for three years with only 5 posts and others with no posts at all.
> ...



Absolutely spot on, plus we saw so many fake accounts in the nominations.
@Andre has done a stunning job on this yet again, and I applauded your efforts though.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## DaveH (21/7/17)

@KZOR 
This may help you.
https://www.ecigssa.co.za/voting-for-top-local-juices-2017-information.t39273/

Dave

Reactions: Like 1 | Thanks 1


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## Andre (21/7/17)

Strontium said:


> Absolutely spot on, plus we saw so many fake accounts in the nominations.
> @Andre has done a stunning job on this yet again, and I applauded your efforts though.


Which I have taken into account when doing the processing of the nominations and which we have tried to eliminate in the voting stage - please see the post @DaveH linked above. A similar limitation applies to this poll. Please be assured that we try to have the competition as squeaky clean as humanly possible. Thank you for being an involved member and for the kind words.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Andre (21/7/17)

KZOR said:


> I have a huge problem with this voting system and have to get it off my chest.
> It is my understanding that this prestige title is an Ecigssa initiative and as such only active members should be allowed to cast a vote.
> When i look at some of the voting members credentials it seems more like a loyalty vote than a honest opinion vote.
> There are voters that have been members for three years with only 5 posts and others with no posts at all.
> ...


It is my understanding that this prestige title is an Ecigssa initiative and as such only active members should be allowed to cast a vote.
Yes, it is an Ecigssa initiative, but active members are not necessarily the same as posting members. We have checked the browsing stats. There are hundreds of members not posting or posting rarely that frequently browse the forums. Thus, we have not used a minimum post count, but rather a minimum membership period. Please also see the post @DaveH linked above.

2) When i look at some of the voting members credentials it seems more like a loyalty vote than a honest opinion vote.
I presume you refer to the nominations stage as during the voting stage the credentials of members voting are not visible. Some of those members that fell outside of the membership period did post their preference in the voting threads, but those did not count as votes. Please also see my answer to @Strontium above.

3) There are voters that have been members for three years with only 5 posts and others with no posts at all.
Exactly, many of them are loyal members, but do not post or rarely post - the silent majority!

4) I see one juice has a large amount of voters from the same town as the company.
Please see my response at 2) above.

5) Let's quickly examine the following scenario ......... i have a nominated juice but as a teacher i also have access to a large loyal audience base. If i get 50 of them to create accounts and then have the freedom to vote ..... is that fair?
No, certainly not. We have tried to prevent that with the membership period.

6) I know this is an extremely difficult thing to police but could we please at least place a minimum post count of 50 on the voters. This will be an indication that more active members have a vote that will count because it was earned.
As indicated above we do not think a minimum post count is as effective as a minimum membership period. How difficult would it be to rack up 50 posts within 14 days? 

I am by no means saying that these juices don't earn a spot as potential winners but i would like to know that it earned the title on merit

Thank you for getting that off your chest in the open forum. Your constructive comments are appreciated.

Suggestions from any member to improve this competition are more than welcome and are encouraged. Next year (as we did last year) we shall run a consultation phase before we start the nominations process.

Reactions: Like 8 | Winner 1 | Useful 1


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## Dewald (21/7/17)

I think the way @Andre did it as per the post above is probably one of the better ways. I am one of those members that visit multiple times a day, but very seldom post. I doubt I have 50 posts and limiting the amount of posts to be able to vote would have prevented me from supporting the manufacturers that have made such a big difference in my vaping journey.

Also, people can quickly rank up their post count by replying in the classifieds etc. At least with @Andre's way you ensure that members who registered with no ill intentions get the chance to vote.

In the end, I believe there are always loopholes if you want to cheat. But, we can't deny that the juices in top position all deserve it and the people behind them are all great (those I have dealt with).

This is merely a poll of personal taste and opinion, there will always be awesome contenders left out.

Reactions: Like 6 | Agree 1


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## Bearshare (21/7/17)

voted

Reactions: Thanks 1


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## BioHAZarD (21/7/17)

Andre said:


> It is my understanding that this prestige title is an Ecigssa initiative and as such only active members should be allowed to cast a vote.
> Yes, it is an Ecigssa initiative, but active members are not necessarily the same as posting members. We have checked the browsing stats. There are hundreds of members not posting or posting rarely that frequently browse the forums. Thus, we have not used a minimum post count, but rather a minimum membership period. Please also see the post @DaveH linked above.
> 
> 2) When i look at some of the voting members credentials it seems more like a loyalty vote than a honest opinion vote.
> ...


@Andre No more blue text please. I was almost seeing double after reading it.  

Sent from my Note 4

Reactions: Like 2


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## BioHAZarD (21/7/17)

Btw. Awesome job on the competition. I did not participate as i mainly DIY but still a very informative competition.

Sent from my Note 4

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Thanks 1


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## Silver (21/7/17)

@KZOR

Just following on from @Andre's response above

We did discuss this in a fair amount of detail beforehand and considered various options. Our main aim was to be as inclusive as possible while preventing new members signing up in huge numbers just to vote.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 2


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## DougP (22/7/17)

If I may throw something into the mix 
As a smaller juice Manufactorer I sadly do not have as bigger presence in the industry with my product available through as many retailers as some of the other guys. 
This in essence immediately puts me at a disadvantage as I have less market/people awareness which ultimately takes me out of the running with votes based on numbers even if I had an exceptionally good flavor. 
So sadly if you look at voting and this competition it basically boils down to the bigger the player, the bigger their presence in industry and their exposure the better their chances.
This also sadly is a double blow for us smaller guys because more and more
people will now rush out and buy based on the voting and push that exposure up even more whilst pushing the smaller guys exposure even further down 
Dunno what the solution is here but this award definitely does not create a level playing field for all of us 

The point made earlier in here about why some of us (majority) are so quiet is simply that we know from the outset that we can only bring a knife to this gun fight no matter what we do 

Just on the voting there was numerous posts made on the more popular social media sites this year (IAVA, Vape-SA) saying that a particular flavor is up for voting on Eciggsa -links to Comp were publicly posted and people were asked to vote 

If I may be so bold as to suggest 
Can there not be a independent panel of judges created that can accept nominations for flavors and then they vote on "best juice" 
Unless something like this happens the smaller guys will never stand a chance in this competition no matter how good our juice is 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Thanks 1 | Informative 1 | Dislike 2


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## Bearshare (22/7/17)

Blends Of Distinction said:


> If I may throw something into the mix
> As a smaller juice Manufactorer I sadly do not have as bigger presence in the industry with my product available through as many retailers as some of the other guys.
> This in essence immediately puts me at a disadvantage as I have less market/people awareness which ultimately takes me out of the running with votes based on numbers even if I had an exceptionally good flavor.
> So sadly if you look at voting and this competition it basically boils down to the bigger the player, the bigger their presence in industry and their exposure the better their chances.
> ...


My vote that I casted was purely because I tasted the juice. 

And not because of ecisg, iava and vapesa. 

And my other favorite has not been listed. 

Sent from my MHA-L09 using Tapatalk

Reactions: Like 1


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## Andre (22/7/17)

Blends Of Distinction said:


> If I may throw something into the mix
> As a smaller juice Manufactorer I sadly do not have as bigger presence in the industry with my product available through as many retailers as some of the other guys.
> This in essence immediately puts me at a disadvantage as I have less market/people awareness which ultimately takes me out of the running with votes based on numbers even if I had an exceptionally good flavor.
> So sadly if you look at voting and this competition it basically boils down to the bigger the player, the bigger their presence in industry and their exposure the better their chances.
> ...


Thank you for your thoughts @Blends Of Distinction.

I think quite a few of the winners are in fact smaller juice makers and most, if not all, started off small. As to market penetration - that is up to the producer. Probably linked to supply and demand, and effective marketing.

Could be that your arguments are valid for a second, different type of competition. Personally I do not think so, but feel free to submit a proposal for testing and consultation in a different thread. 

Of course during voting of all kinds in life participants try to influence potential voters in a myriad of ways, via social media, email campaigns, etcetera. That, imho, is par for the course.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## DougP (22/7/17)

Andre 
I fully agree with everything you said 
Before my post gets totally distorted because I sometimes type in circles 

In essence I was trying to say :
The bigger the Manufactorer,
The bigger the market exposure, and therefor ultimately the bigger the chance of getting the numbers for the votes

We all started off small and are growing which is good for the industry 
Growth is not only linked to supply and demand and most certainly effective marketing, but more so to having the working capital to achieve this and the growth required. This is indicative of any small business
The emphasis been here on being able to Manufactorer and supply stock which is where a lot of capital investment is required. 

We are growing rapidly so hopefully by next year I can get onto this list. 

This competition is a good incentive and challenge for us all







Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Reactions: Like 4


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## Strontium (22/7/17)

Andre said:


> Thank you for your thoughts @Blends Of Distinction.
> 
> I think quite a few of the winners are in fact smaller juice makers and most, if not all, started off small. As to market penetration - that is up to the producer. Probably linked to supply and demand, and effective marketing.
> 
> ...


One needs only look at Zoob, they burst on the scene fairly recently and made a strong impression very quickly. Effective marketing coupled with a quality product will drive demand, vendors will listen to public demand and stock accordingly.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1


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## Milc e-Juice (23/7/17)

Strontium said:


> One needs only look at Zoob, they burst on the scene fairly recently and made a strong impression very quickly. Effective marketing coupled with a quality product will drive demand, vendors will listen to public demand and stock accordingly.


Exactly what i wanted to say.. but i couldnt get the words right without sounding like a complete tosser. But thanks

Reactions: Funny 1


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## CMMACKEM (23/7/17)

Strontium said:


> One needs only look at Zoob, they burst on the scene fairly recently and made a strong impression very quickly. coupled with a quality product will drive demand, vendors will listen to public demand and stock accordingly.



I agree. The only reason I bought it was for the "in partnership with Mr Hardwicks" and boy am I enjoying the living shite out of it.

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## rogue zombie (23/7/17)

I think this is a general consensus, what's hot, whats hyped, what's marketed well at the mo... etc.

Please, there's no better fruit in the country than MMM Lime Party. And Paulie's stuff makes most others seem amateur 

I taste most of the "hot" juices going around. My mates are to lazy to make their own . One of the "hottest" juices this year, we thought, "yeah, authentic..." and we were over it in an hour.

Take the comp in a light-hearted view. It will get you to some good juices. It should not be inscribed in stone. It's not definitive.

But it gives credit where it's due. Even though, some may be overlooked

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## Strontium (23/7/17)

CMMACKEM said:


> I agree. The only reason I bought it was for the "in partnership with Mr Hardwicks" and boy am I enjoying the living shite out of it.



Yep that's what caught my attention too, @method1 is a brilliant mixologist, you know it's gonna be a quality product if he puts his name on it.


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## Soutie (23/7/17)

My 2c here. The poll is currently being lead by 'good boy' at the moment and that is not the most widely distributed juice by any means.

In fact before moving I wanted to bring a few bottles of exactly that juice with me. I searched many B+M stores and had more than one blank look asking for it. I ended up resigned to the fact I will wait tilll I return to SA to pick up a bottle again. The juice honestly speaks for itself.

Reactions: Like 1 | Thanks 1


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## DougP (24/7/17)

I honestly believe that our local juice makers produce some of the best juices in the world
I recon on the international level some of these top juices will kick some serious butt 
All the juices that made it onto the voting list are exceptionally good and deserve a accolade



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Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## Paulie (24/7/17)

The juice industry changes every day and i have been making juices for sale for over 1 year now and i can tell you each year (Been vaping over 3 years now) The market changes! These days Juices are alot harder to get into market as you need to tick all the right places! E.G. The Juice needs to be good and have excellent packaging and hype or it may go unnoticed! This competition is great cause it gives formites a good indication on what to try vape! Looking at the winners i do identify that most of them belong there based on shops stocks and also people perception as well as my own. Its also import to remember that we continually get new people on here who's vaping journey differs from our-self's. Looking forward to Whats comming i know we all in for some epic vaping people lets just pray we all here again next year and not banned!

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## CMMACKEM (25/7/17)

Strontium said:


> Yep that's what caught my attention too, @method1 is a brilliant mixologist, you know it's gonna be a quality product if he puts his name on it.



Bro I have had all(exaggerating just a tad) of the chocolate donuts from US and Canada. One of these was from one of the apparent top three mixologists in the world. And none of them have done it like @method1 

He should work at Crispy Creme

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Andre (26/7/17)



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