# Has anyone tried Prime Nic Nicotine Salts?



## tetrasect (23/2/19)

Got about 200ml of 0mg juice that needs spiking and would like to try out some salts.

Anyone have experience with the Prime Nic salts?

EDIT: I see there's Gold Nic salts too...


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## Spyro (23/2/19)

I've tried the Gold Nicsalts and Ive tried Cloudburst nicsalts. I think they may use different acids to convert the NIC to a salt. I'm probably wrong. But the cloud burst NIC was WAY more potent. But it also had a minor chemical taste. The gold NIC was WAY weaker but it didn't have that taste.

I will buy prime next and then cloudburst In the future Gold NIC salts didn't cut it for me - but I stick to them for freebase.


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## Tai (23/2/19)

Tried gold and prime. Both weak in my opinion. Where did you get the Cloudburst from @Spyro


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## Spyro (23/2/19)

Tai said:


> Tried gold and prime. Both weak in my opinion. Where did you get the Cloudburst from @Spyro


Vapehyper and flavourworld


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## tetrasect (23/2/19)

Think I'll stay away from cloudburst for now... really don't want any weird chemical taste in my liquid.

When you guys say "weak" do you mean weaker than freebase at the same mg dosage? 

If you were to use a higher dose of salt nic to get the same effect as the freebase, would the TH still be less?

I basically just wanna make a strong (I'm thinking 6mg or so?) mix for certain occasions but I wan't to avoid the TH.


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## Spyro (23/2/19)

Tai said:


> Think I'll stay away from cloudburst for now... really don't want any weird chemical taste in my liquid.
> 
> When you guys say "weak" do you mean weaker than freebase at the same mg dosage?
> 
> ...



I really wouldn't worry about the taste too much. Nic salts should not be subohmed. You cannot substitute nicsalts into freebase DL E-Liquid. Don't do that.

Nice salts do not feel the same as freebase for me. Therefore I can't compare them.

Strong nicsalts for me would be a shortness of breath after chain puffing 10 puffs of 50mg salts. Cloudburst is like that for me. 50mg of the Gold nicsalts felt like 25mg of the cloudburst.

I also feel like there's little point in salts below 20mg. So the only reason for my salt use is higher nicotine content. At 50mg you most certainly still get a punch to the throat.

For what it's worth I don't think you can compare the strength of nicsalts to freebase much like you can't compare tobacco nicotine content to E-Liquid nicotine content.


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## tetrasect (24/2/19)

Spyro said:


> Nic salts should not be subohmed. You cannot substitute nicsalts into freebase DL E-Liquid. Don't do that.



Why not? I understand that "nic salt e-liquid" as in 50mg liquid for pod systems should not be vaped at 60W but why should you not subohm a lower strength liquid containing nic salts instead of freebase? There are already plenty of liquids for subohm tanks made with nic salt on the market ( https://onehitwondereliquid.com/shop/the-muffin-man/ for example).

From what I understand nic salt is weaker than freebase because nic salt is freebase nicotine reacted with benzoic acid to form nicotine benzoate.
Because the salt is a combination of those two chemicals it looses potency, so 5mg of nicotine benzoate salt only contains the equivalent of 3mg of nicotine freebase.


I guess what I'm asking is if I make a 10mg/ml nic salt liquid would I get less of a throat hit compared to a 6mg/ml freebase liquid?


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## Spyro (24/2/19)

tetrasect said:


> Why not? I understand that "nic salt e-liquid" as in 50mg liquid for pod systems should not be vaped at 60W but why should you not subohm a lower strength liquid containing nic salts instead of freebase? There are already plenty of liquids for subohm tanks made with nic salt on the market ( https://onehitwondereliquid.com/shop/the-muffin-man/ for example).
> 
> From what I understand nic salt is weaker than freebase because nic salt is freebase nicotine reacted with benzoic acid to form nicotine benzoate.
> Because the salt is a combination of those two chemicals it looses potency, so 5mg of nicotine benzoate salt only contains the equivalent of 3mg of nicotine freebase.
> ...




Again, the answer is still no. To make NIC salts you add "acid" to the freebase. Benzoic acid is the most common. (Initially introduced by juul)

Problem with benoic acid is that when it is super heated and degrades (subohm) it converts to benzine which is a known cause of cancer. 

If you used a different acid it would probably be safer. But how confident are you that your supplier even knows which acid is in the NIC?


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## tetrasect (24/2/19)

Spyro said:


> Again, the answer is still no. To make NIC salts you add "acid" to the freebase. Benzoic acid is the most common. (Initially introduced by juul)
> 
> Problem with benoic acid is that when it is super heated and degrades (subohm) it converts to benzine which is a known cause of cancer.
> 
> If you used a different acid it would probably be safer. But how confident are you that your supplier even knows which acid is in the NIC?



Why would it be "super heated"? My rda produces vapour at the same temperature as any other device, just more of it because of the massive airflow.

Also, I wouldn't worry about benzene forming from benzoic acid. Apart from the fact that the amount of benzoic acid in nic salts is negligible (even the most impure ones are at least 97% pure, most are above 99%), this study shows benzene was undetectable even when adding 9mg/ml of benzoic acid into the liquid. (really shitty study by the tobacco industry trying to design an experiment that shows that juul is a public safety hazard lol)


Anyways even though I am enjoying this conversation I really just wanted to know about the throat hit.


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## Spyro (24/2/19)

tetrasect said:


> Why would it be "super heated"? My rda produces vapour at the same temperature as any other device, just more of it because of the massive airflow.
> 
> Also, I wouldn't worry about benzene forming from benzoic acid. Apart from the fact that the amount of benzoic acid in nic salts is negligible (even the most impure ones are at least 97% pure, most are above 99%), this study shows benzene was undetectable even when adding 9mg/ml of benzoic acid into the liquid. (really shitty study by the tobacco industry trying to design an experiment that shows that juul is a public safety hazard lol)
> 
> ...



Subohm vaping would be considered super heating in comparison to a 1.2ohm at 11 watts. Was the bezene tested when sub-ohming the liquid? If not I don't see what relevance it holds? AFAIK the tests were to find benzine in the juul systems and similar when heated at ultra low temps. (Pod systems).

If you don't care for the benzine inhalation, to answer your question, yes, you can subohm 50mg nicsalts with less throat hit than your regular 6mg. But you'll lose your breath and may pass out at those quantities. So if you're vaping a 6-9mg you'll be successful (there will be minimal throat hit with a slightly different taste to what you're used to) It's just that benzine argument that may potentially prevent you from doing so.


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## tetrasect (24/2/19)

Spyro said:


> Subohm vaping would be considered super heating in comparison to a 1.2ohm at 11 watts. Was the bezene tested when sub-ohming the liquid? If not I don't see what relevance it holds? AFAIK the tests were to find benzine in the juul systems and similar when heated at ultra low temps. (Pod systems).
> 
> If you don't care for the benzine inhalation, to answer your question, yes, you can subohm 50mg nicsalts with less throat hit than your regular 6mg. But you'll lose your breath and may pass out at those quantities. So if you're vaping a 6-9mg you'll be successful (there will be minimal throat hit with a slightly different taste to what you're used to) It's just that benzine argument that may potentially prevent you from doing so.



"Super heating" would be a dry hit. Whether you vape at 1.2 ohm at 11 watts with only a little bit of airflow or at 1.2 ohm at 60 watts with a lot of airflow or at 0.3 ohms at 100W with tons of airflow, the liquid evaporates at the same temperature. There's a balance between airflow cooling the coils and taking the vapour away and the amount of heat produced by the coils. I can vape at 70W with airflow open fully and get a much cooler vape than with a device with less airflow at 20W.

In the study they tested from 6W to 25W on a Kangertech Subtank Nano, so not all the way up to 80W. Though like I said before, it won't make a difference what wattage or ohms, as long as the airflow is adjusted to give a nice warm vape. If subohm vaping produced higher temperature vapour you would burn your mouth.

Cool thank man, I'll give the nic salts a go, probably mix about 10mg and see what it's like


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