# High Wattage Epidemic



## Gizmo (8/10/14)

Since playing with this GI2 it has awesome features, the most important to me is the support for two 18650's in a regulated device = amazing battery life. However, this new High Wattage craze has me concerned. 

I cant think of anyone that will be able to vape at 100W let a lone 200W devices I see are already out overseas. I think this is is the recipe for disaster.. Someone is going to get hurt badly, and the whole vaping industry is going to suffer.

The thought of a 15 year old kid with a 200W device is guaranteed stupidness.

What are we going to do about this? Am I silly for feeling concerned?

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 12


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## kimbo (8/10/14)

Hi @Gizmo 

I feel the same, 100watt a bit hectic let alone 200watt 

I bought a 30watt ZNA and i am very happy with that power, i don't do the dark fringe of sub ohm, i just hover at 1 ohm for now and that is getting to hot at 30watt

But you are right some one somewhere is going to get hurt with these monster boxes and it will reflect badly on the VaperWorld in general


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## Yiannaki (8/10/14)

Gizmo said:


> Since playing with this GI2 it has awesome features, the most important to me is the support for two 18650's in a regulated device = amazing battery life. However, this new High Wattage craze has me concerned.
> 
> I cant think of anyone that will be able to vape at 100W let a lone 200W devices I see are already out overseas. I think this is is the recipe for disaster.. Someone is going to get hurt badly, and the whole vaping industry is going to suffer.
> 
> ...



I share your concern @Gizmo

I personally have no interest or desire to vape at 100w let alone 200! Next thing you know, vaping devices will be like the smoke machines in that vaping at 400W video.

The idea of a teenager with that kind of power in their hands is scary. But the problem is how does one control this?
The only thing that comes to mind is retailers requiring ID or something for any device sales. Then again, who can regulate this and make sure it is followed by any and all retailers?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Silver (8/10/14)

I agree with you @Gizmo 
You are not being silly

What can we do about it?
Retailers could take a decision to not sell them, but i guess there will always be those on the fringe that go for the monster vape. And these people will just import them if they're not available locally. 

Tough one

There are lots of other dangerous things that one can freely buy that if in the hands of a kid could be very dangerous. Think of certain power tools, chemicals, poisons, knives...

Reactions: Agree 5


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## kimbo (8/10/14)

Maybe the venders should vote not to sell mods over, say 50watt. and every vender that signs not to sell high watt devices get some pack or board or something, a ribbon on the forum or the like


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## rogue zombie (8/10/14)

I think it's ridiculous to WANT so much power, because you definitely don't need it.
It's typical though of the Chinese manufacturing world, or any for that matter, to try and outdo the previous "best".

Retailers are obviously free to sell whatever they like, but of coarse consumers have the power to drive pricing and demand. If nobody buys something, it won't be stocked for long.

So it's simple vaping folk - if it's ridiculous, don't buy it. It will soon be off the shelf.


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## BumbleBee (8/10/14)

I share your concerns @Gizmo, it would be great if all the retailers just refused to sell these devices to the general public. Perhaps sell them only to people that know how to use them, but how do you know who they are? And, what happens to the device when they don't want it anymore? Sure all the vendors can say they won't sell them but for every one responsible vendor refusing to supply them there will be another ten more than willing to sell them to whoever comes up with the cash and you will be supporting them by sending them your customers. These things need to be regulated (yes, there I said it) at the manufacturer's level.


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## Silver (8/10/14)

r0gue z0mbie said:


> I think it's ridiculous to WANT so much power, because you definitely don't need it.
> It's typical though of the Chinese manufacturing world, or any for that matter, to try and outdo the previous "best".
> 
> Retailers are obviously free to sell whatever they like, but of coarse consumers have the power to drive pricing and demand. If nobody buys something, it won't be stocked for long.
> ...



Well said @r0gue z0mbie 
Take my thoughts on this GI2 as an example
I am quite interested in the twin battery setup for more battery life
But i know I dont need the extra power, say over about 40 watts
And for the price of 2k, its not really worth it for me to have the prospect of better battery life
So unlikely to buy it.

Reactions: Like 1


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## johan (8/10/14)

Companies won't manufacture high power devices if there's not a demand for this and IMO the demand is driven by small-d#ck syndrome vapers.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 4


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## Al3x (8/10/14)

kimbo said:


> Maybe the venders should vote not to sell mods over, say 50watt. and every vender that signs not to sell high watt devices get some pack or board or something, a ribbon on the forum or the like


Why would you want to only sell 50w when there are 100w mods available, and to segregate the suppliers in that way IMO is not a good option, does that mean that a vendor selling a 100w or higher mod is a bad seller? or is the seller not concerned with vapers safety?, in that case all vendors should also stop selling mechs as with a 0.2ohm coil and a fully charged battery with voltage drop at 3.9v you are vaping at 76w and at 0.15 at 101watts.
I say if we dont have vendors like @Gizmo and @Sir Vape who is bringing in high wattage products then we will be limiting our options in south africa, And if the vendors don't bring it down vapers will just import it themselves.

It does not matter if you are using a 20w, 30w, 50w, 100w, 150w mod it is all still dependant on the user, and how far he/she is will to push the limits of the mod, and at least with a regulated mod, there is safety, safer to go 100w on regulated and have the protection of the mod than to go 100w with a mech and have it blow up in your face(not that it will because I have tried and still have my face and hands)

And just to comment the GI2 is an awesome device and in voltage mode has been reported to go as high as 176w if I am not mistaken with a 0.1 ohm coil.

Reactions: Like 2


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## kimbo (8/10/14)

Al3x said:


> Why would you want to only sell 50w when there are 100w mods available, and to segregate the suppliers in that way IMO is not a good option, does that mean that a vendor selling a 100w or higher mod is a bad seller? or is the seller not concerned with vapers safety?, in that case all vendors should also stop selling mechs as with a 0.2ohm coil and a fully charged battery with voltage drop at 3.9v you are vaping at 76w and at 0.15 at 101watts.
> I say if we dont have vendors like @Gizmo and @Sir Vape who is bringing in high wattage products then we will be limiting our options in south africa, And if the vendors don't bring it down vapers will just import it themselves.
> 
> It does not matter if you are using a 20w, 30w, 50w, 100w, 150w mod it is all still dependant on the user, and how far he/she is will to push the limits of the mod, and at least with a regulated mod, there is safety, safer to go 100w on regulated and have the protection of the mod than to go 100w with a mech and have it blow up in your face(not that it will because I have tried and still have my face and hands)
> ...



good point on the safety of electronic mods


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## Andre (8/10/14)

Agree with @johan - a simple matter of demand and supply. IMO demand will quickly dwindle and 2 years from now you will struggle to find a 200W device. Unless of course it gets prohibited by governments, in which case the forbidden apple syndrome will boost black market demand.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## kimbo (8/10/14)

Andre said:


> Agree with @johan - a simple matter of demand and supply. IMO demand will quickly dwindle and 2 years from now you will struggle to find a 200W device. Unless of course it gets prohibited by governments, in which case the forbidden apple syndrome will boost black market demand.



Little derail

Talking about Apple, how long do you think it will take before Apple sues the manufacturer of iStick for something to do with the name?

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 3


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## rvdwesth (8/10/14)

My  worth. 
I recently passed on a 30w to buy a 50w device and to be honest, I have yet to vape (comfortably) past 30w. At about 20w on a dual 0.8 build it becomes to hot to vape lekker, so the extra 20w i bought over the 30w I wanted initially served me no purpose thus far. 
Then I saw Gizmo's vid this morning and I realized high wattage can seriously harm a person.
Then the thought crossed my mind... most tings in life have 2 sides to it: responsible use vs stupidity. Fast cars for example... makes your pp bigger when you have one and drive down the street at 60 km\h, but can kill you if you use it at full capacity down William Nicol in peak hour traffic.

So my opinion n high wattage mods.... Make a pp bigger, but would be stupidly dangerous to crank it up all the way

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## johan (8/10/14)

The problem with excessive high wattage devices are some of the users out there. The danger with IGNORANCE is that it picks up CONFIDENCE as it goes along.

Reactions: Agree 5


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## BansheeZA (8/10/14)

After using the Sx350 for a while now I have come to notice some things. When I use a lowish ohm coil I seem to keep the voltage at around 4.2 to 4.3 volt doesn't matter what the watts is. but on higher ohm coils from 1.4ohm and up I tend to go a bit higher on the voltage to around 5 - 5.5v to get the flavour to pop. Again I don't worry what the wattage is its the voltage that is the important one. 
Nice thing about higher voltage on higher ohm coils is less amps and thus a safer vape

Reactions: Like 1


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## Rowan Francis (8/10/14)

Being one of the few who now own a HWD , i do indeed agree with the potential for doing harm .

But then we read about a child ingesting e liquid !! there is potential for great harm . 

All it can really boil down to is user responsibility and thats it . Finished and klaar . I have several guns in my house and i don't leave them anywhere where some inocent could pick them up and harm themselves or others .

Same will be for all my eliquid and same for my devices . I will take the responsiblity cos i am all grown up now .

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 7


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## johan (8/10/14)

Rowan Francis said:


> Being one of the few who now own a HWD , i do indeed agree with the potential for doing harm .
> 
> But then we read about a child ingesting e liquid !! there is potential for great harm .
> 
> ...



Agree 100% with you Rowan. BTW I am glad you picking up on your Afrikaans LOL

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 2


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## Sir Vape (8/10/14)

Rowan Francis said:


> Being one of the few who now own a HWD , i do indeed agree with the potential for doing harm .
> 
> But then we read about a child ingesting e liquid !! there is potential for great harm .
> 
> ...




Could not have said that better. Personally I'm no big lung hitter. I'm a chilled pipe type of guy. I have a ZNA 50 and have not gone past 25w (i neaaarrllly died) but in saying that we would be limiting ourselves to what is available out there if we stuck below 50w and if used sensibly there should be no problem. I think it's important for vendors to tell clients that (a note can go out with the invoice) and for it to be clearly stated on our website below each High Wattage device.


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## Paulie (8/10/14)

its a nice to have rather than a have to have in my opinion.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Marzuq (8/10/14)

Gizmo said:


> Since playing with this GI2 it has awesome features, the most important to me is the support for two 18650's in a regulated device = amazing battery life. However, this new High Wattage craze has me concerned.
> 
> I cant think of anyone that will be able to vape at 100W let a lone 200W devices I see are already out overseas. I think this is is the recipe for disaster.. Someone is going to get hurt badly, and the whole vaping industry is going to suffer.
> 
> ...



i agree @Gizmo personally i dont see the need to go as high as 100watt. but i suppose that knowing you could if you wanted to is a nice feeling to some.
i would choose to stay away tho. i have no need to go that high up in the watts

Reactions: Like 1


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## WHeunis (8/10/14)

Whatever it's worth:

As long as it's done safely!
I am kinda keeping my eyes open for a 50W, can't see myself going more than that. But serious sub-ohmers are confined to mechs, as most regulated devices can't push the power required to properly use anything well below 0.5.

Sure, my 0.6 works just fine at 30W, but there is no way 30W is enough for lower resistance.
On top of that, I flatout refuse to go mech.

My next most likely purchase is going to be the Cloupor T6 100W 26650.
Should be released middle October... And I am pretty sure it will have all the power I need, as well being a 26650 for good battery life.

Honestly, I cant say I would feel all that good about 200W devices in the hands of tards either, but the same could apply to fast cars, guns, or even something as mundane as a braai...
But at the same time, you can't very well stop doing things just because idiots are going to fark it up. If you did, Youtube would die tomorrow...

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## BansheeZA (8/10/14)

Another thing to keep in mind. I watched a video not too long ago can't remember from who, and he talked about the safety aspect and how you can get the same effect from higher ohms and higher voltage without all the amps as low sub ohming. Wish I could remember who that was as that made me think in a different way. Will try and find it


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## rogue zombie (8/10/14)

Do powerful devices go through a lot more juice? Say compared to a MVP, would a 30w unit go through considerably more juice? Or is it not really much more...

Can anyone tell me please.

I'm releaved to hear that many can't push too high, so I know exactly what devices to look at in future.


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## Kuhlkatz (8/10/14)

BansheeZA said:


> Another thing to keep in mind. I watched a video not too long ago can't remember from who, and he talked about the safety aspect and how you can get the same effect from higher ohms and higher voltage without all the amps as low sub ohming. Wish I could remember who that was as that made me think in a different way. Will try and find it



It was Grimmgreen on his Blow Safer Clouds, IPV V2 + Infinite CLT review vid at around 07:30 - 10:00 where he builds the CLT.


Regulated mods are supposed to be the safer option over mech mods, but the way it's going in the Wattage Wars it seems that the opposite is now becoming reality. The original manufacturers and cloners all seem to cut corners to stay ahead or keep up with the competition, so I doubt that all the devices are 100% foolproof or tested. All software have bugs and the firmware for these devices likely follow that tradition. Add some rushed delivery dates to the equation and that leaves lots of room for errors to slip in. It's no wonder Phil Busardo gave the BEC Pro such a k@k review after being allowed to push it way beyond what it should safely do, and that's only 50W.

We likely need to be more concerned for the 'seasoned' vaper than the 15 year old kid, as I think they somehow present a far greater risk here. 
Most of the vapers that have dabbled with mech mods & RDAs will usually be conscious about the dangers that go hand-in-hand with low resistances, extreme temperatures and high current draws on Lithium-ion batteries, yet they still keep pushing the boundaries further because it worked previously 'without becoming very hot' or 'without exploding in my hands' (yet).
Somewhere out there, there is definitely some idiot that will abandon basic common sense and push the limits and do extremely, ultra-stupid stuff. Just like the idiot holding an overheating mod with a towel because it's burning his hands while he's vaping his 'pipe-bomb'. Huge warning signs, manuals, neon prints or even the best medication can ever stop stupidity. Period.

I sincerely hope that devices like this at least keep to all their advertised limits under ALL operating conditions. 
With the minimum supported coil resistance of 0.1 ohms and max output of 5.5v in VV mode, the wattage would be around 302.5 with a current draw of 'only' 55 Amp if not regulated properly to not exceed 100W or the 20A output limit.

Reactions: Like 2 | Informative 1


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## Rob Fisher (8/10/14)

I have battled to understand this wattage race for some time... I still run my Sigelei 20W devices at around the 10 watt mark... it just makes no sense to me at all...


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## Zegee (8/10/14)

Very interesting arguments in this thread . Just a question should we not allow those who want the extreme high wattage the choice of still being able to get them like the car analogy used earlier if I want a lambo y can't I have one if I am reckless and kill myself it's my fault, isn't it?
Regarding the high wattage debate a simple calculation for the drippers out there : 





Ultimately everything is about choice if you want to safeguard people maybe the reviewers of these devices should not make them out to be as a must have device and the best thing since sliced bread.
Reality is like with anything else if someone wants it they will make a plan.
Just my 2c
Vape safe

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Zegee (8/10/14)

From a good friend

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1 | Funny 1


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## capetocuba (8/10/14)

That's interesting @Zeegee. So I would need more than 100w on that .12 ohm coil I built? My vanilla handled it well with my VTC5 with no heating issues on mod or battery. This might be safer?

Reactions: Like 2


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## Zegee (8/10/14)

capetocuba said:


> That's interesting @Zeegee. So I would need more than 100w on that .12 ohm coil I built? My vanilla handled it well with my VTC5 with no heating issues on mod or battery. This might be safer?


You are a nutter mate be safe bro

Reactions: Like 2


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## BillW (8/10/14)

Zegee said:


> Very interesting arguments in this thread . Just a question should we not allow those who want the extreme high wattage the choice of still being able to get them like the car analogy used earlier if I want a lambo y can't I have one if I am reckless and kill myself it's my fault, isn't it?
> Regarding the high wattage debate a simple calculation for the drippers out there :
> 
> 
> ...




I agree zee gee 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mattj4l/Vapor (9/10/14)

When i had my 30w mod it was a warm vape on the full 30 watts, however on my brothers sigeilie 100w mod I vape it on 42w and it is not hot nor cold it's just perfect, that is why I thought to get a 100w mod and just keep using it up to 50w or buy a 50w mod and just vape at around 45 at the most.
Btw I'm looking for a cloupor t5 if anyone wants to sell, I'm interested at R900.
Fun Fact: i like sleeping, but i never seem to find the right time to go to bed


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