# Vaping and gout



## Jean claude Vaaldamme

So just a question if there is people here that gets gout.
So if you get gout, the attacks normally gets more frequent as you get older. Im at the stage where not a month will past without an attack. Times like Dec with all the party booze, braai and lamb roast, I normally have it permantly for a few week. But since I started vaping just over two months ago, not once, even over Dec. Ok twice I could feel a little pain in the foot the evening and thing, here it is now and Im going to cry, tomorrow morning, but then next morning all gone.
So anyone else experienced this? Is it just maybe coincidence?
I know nicotine breaks down vitamin C and can cause gout, maybe Im getting in less nicotene than with smoking?

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## Hooked

I would say that you're probably getting *more* nic with vaping. I've recently been looking at my friends packets of cigs and the nic is so low! 

It's more likely that the tar and the rest of the trash in the cigarette used to cause a gout flare-up or exacerbate it. What do you think?

Reactions: Informative 1


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## SAVaper

Interesting idea.
I get gout but I haven't noticed any reduction since starting to vape 3 years ago.


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## Clouds4Days

Hooked said:


> I would say that you're probably getting *more* nic with vaping. I've recently been looking at my friends packets of cigs and the nic is so low!
> 
> It's more likely that the tar and the rest of the trash in the cigarette used to cause a gout flare-up or exacerbate it. What do you think?



Hi Hooked I cant remember how it works again if I recall @Silver knows how the calculations work regarding amounts of Nic in cigs vaping.

On cig packs the nic shows 0.3 or 0.6 up to around 1.2mg I think. If I remember correctly 0.3 nic in cigs is equivalent to 3mg in vaping and 0.6 equivalent to 6mg.

But rather let someone else on here confirm this please before you start expressing these claims to friends etc.

Have a great week


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## Jean claude Vaaldamme

The main cause off gout is stress, so maybe the vaping relaxes me more

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## Silver

Clouds4Days said:


> Hi Hooked I cant remember how it works again if I recall @Silver knows how the calculations work regarding amounts of Nic in cigs vaping.
> 
> On cig packs the nic shows 0.3 or 0.6 up to around 1.2mg I think. If I remember correctly 0.3 nic in cigs is equivalent to 3mg in vaping and 0.6 equivalent to 6mg.
> 
> But rather let someone else on here confirm this please before you start expressing these claims to friends etc.
> 
> Have a great week



Thanks for the tag @Clouds4Days - but I dont know if there is an exact answer.

As far as I understand its not easy to compare the mg of nicotine in a cigarette to the mg/ml of e-juice. Their absorption rates are very different (nic absorbs much more and faster with smoking) and they also put other things in the cigarettes that could enhance the nic absorption.

Studies done on the nicotine in the blood after a cigarette versus a vaping session show that the nicotine spikes much faster and higher with a cigarette than with vaping.

Not sure how this relates to the gout question of @Jean claude Vaaldamme though.

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## RainstormZA

Jean claude Vaaldamme said:


> The main cause off gout is stress, so maybe the vaping relaxes me more


Lol I've not had gout since I started vaping and that was a year and 5 months. And I'm always stressed. Lol

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## Grand Guru

There’s no proven relationship whatsoever between nicotine/Vit C and gout... one or two studies showed some statistical relationship but that doesn’t mean much.... Look at other factors @Jean claude Vaaldamme. 
The figures on the cigarette packs don’t really mean much and are not verifiable as the content in nicotine in a cigarette may vary widely from one cigarette to the other besides the fact that absorption is actually very limited as only a small fraction goes into the blood through inhalation.

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## Clouds4Days

Could this maybe have something to do with blood circulation?

As stopping smoking can increase blood circulation throughout the body.

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## Darius1332

May also be that you are hydrating more with vaping and helping to process the acids from your blood out better. I certainly drink more as vape makes my mouth dry, not sure how much it has helped with Gout I have other joint issues on top of it so hard to judge what is source of pain.

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## BATMAN

Interesting thread and interesting theories. 

Will follow as a means of increasing my knowledge on vaping.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Pho3niX90

Here we go

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## Pho3niX90

And here is an article relating to gout and smoking, also relevant to vaping I suppose:
Source: https://www.mdmag.com/medical-news/gout-the-shocking-benefit-of-smoking

Reads:
You’ve heard it thousands of times over the years: smoking is bad for your health. But a recent study found that cigarettes have an interesting impact when it comes to the risk of gout.

High serum urate levels may indicate gout, and past research has shown that cigarette smoke lowers those levels. The relationship between smoking and the risk of gout has not been studied until now. Interestingly enough, however, the correlation is only apparent in men.

In-person interviews were conducted with 53,213 Chinese men, ages 45 to 74, from 1993 to 1998. They also had either one follow-up interview (1999 to 2004) or two follow-up interviews (2006 to 2010). The data, consisting of smoking habits and other lifestyle factors, was assessed using Cox proportional hazards models.

A total of 2,244 patients were diagnosed with gout during the average 11-year follow-up. Smokers had a 27% lower risk of developing gout when compared to men who were never smokers, according to the results in _Arthritis Care & Research_. However, there was no evidence indicating the same link in women. Notably, the gout risk was lower in lean smokers when compared to overweight smokers.

“This inverse association with smoking was rapidly attenuated to become null even in former smokers who had recently quit smoking,” the authors specified.

A related study showed that current smokers had significantly lower serum urate levels than former or never smokers. But again, this was only apparent in men and not women.

Do these findings suggest that men should run to the nearest store and pick up a pack of cigarettes? No, but the research sheds light on the pathology of this specific arthritis.

Reactions: Informative 5


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## Hooked

Silver said:


> Thanks for the tag @Clouds4Days - but I dont know if there is an exact answer.
> 
> As far as I understand its not easy to compare the mg of nicotine in a cigarette to the mg/ml of e-juice. Their absorption rates are very different (nic absorbs much more and faster with smoking) and they also put other things in the cigarettes that could enhance the nic absorption.
> 
> Studies done on the nicotine in the blood after a cigarette versus a vaping session show that the nicotine spikes much faster and higher with a cigarette than with vaping.
> 
> Not sure how this relates to the gout question of @Jean claude Vaaldamme though.



@Silver you're comparing the *absorption rate* of nicotine, but I was referring to nic *strength i.e. quantity consumed *and surely that can be compared? Which is heavier - 1kg of lead or 1kg of feathers? Both are the same weight.

I've been looking at cig packs lately (noooooo not for me lol) and I'm actually surprised at the low nic strength - or is it only the people I know who smoke a mild cig for example, a cig with 0.1 nic. 

Thus, a smoker who uses 0.1 nic cigs and then switches to vaping with *3mg (that would be 0.3 am I correct?)* is consuming a much higher nic *quantity* over the course of the day, irrespective of absorption rate.

That is why I suggested that @Jean claude Vaaldamme is probably consuming a greater quantity of nic now with vaping, than he did with smoking.

@Clouds4Days I also need to understand the nic strengths. My homework for the week!

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## SmokeyJoe

Its simple. Its because you drink more fluids. Vaping causes a person to feel thirsty which makes you grab for water more often. Uric acid which causes gout, is secreted via urine. More water = more uric acid being secreted.

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## Silver

Hi @Hooked

Lets take Rothmans Blue - which I smoked
I think it has 1mg nicotine per cigarette.

So if I smoked one cigarette, you could say I had exposure to 1mg of nicotine.

Lets say I vape a 6mg liquid. That's 6mg per ml of liquid. So if I were to vape 1ml of liquid - that could be either one third of a tankful of a 3ml tank - or lets say 3 drip sessions on my dripper - which is about 1ml.

One would look at the above and say - WOW - I am exposing myself to 6 times the amount of nicotine in the 1ml of juice vaped than in a Rothmans cigarette. 

However, what I was trying to say previously is that you can't just compare it like that because the amount of nicotine that enters the bloodstream from vaping is very different to that from smoking.

As I understand it (from readings quite a while ago), there are several reasons for the smoking to be a far superior and quicker delivery mechanism

firstly, the smoke particles are MUCH smaller than the vape molecules. So they are more easily absorbed.
Second, there are tar particles in the cigarette smoke and as I understand it, they get lodged in the lung tissue and "stick" in - allowing the nicotine to get absorbed fast. As opposed to vaping where you breathe in and breathe out and most of the vapour molecules actually come straight out. I have heard that most of the absorption in vaping takes place in the mouth and throat rather than in the lungs. 
I have heard that the cigarettes contain other chemicals which work in combination to improve the nicotine hit.

Bottom line, if you are a regular smoker, you are likely getting much more nicotine in your system and much faster.

In my example above, the nic hit I got from a single cigarette was (as I recall) way more than what I would get from a few drip sessions of 6mg juice. The 6mg juice drip session feels very light to me and doesnt really do much. I remember if not having had a smoke for say an hour and then having one - it was a major nic hit - I could feel it very quickly.

So all I am saying is that one has to look at the absorption rate of the nicotine to determine how much of it is going into your system. Not just how much is contained in a cigarette versus the vape juice. And the level it spikes to - which is apparently the part your brain is addicted to. And its very difficult to compare directly.

I would need to brush up on the above with references to articles and research - we have discussed these topics a few times ages ago on the forum - but this is how I have understood it from those readings.

Maybe with today's much higher powered gear and/or with nic salts, which seem to be absorbed faster - we might be seeing more nicotine being delivered - but I am referring to the more conventional gear from a few years back.

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## Jean claude Vaaldamme

SmokeyJoe said:


> Its simple. Its because you drink more fluids. Vaping causes a person to feel thirsty which makes you grab for water more often. Uric acid which causes gout, is secreted via urine. More water = more uric acid being secreted.


Not that simple, I always drink a lot, dont think I suddenly started drinking more. As for water, havent touched water the last month or so, just milk, cooldrinks and brandy


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## Silver

Just to add to the above post on the absorption rate of vaping versus smoking

This is fairly old research, but interesting:



Original research is here:
https://www.nature.com/articles/srep04133
The above graph is quite far down in the article.

Also here is Dr Farsalinos' comments on this too:
http://www.ecigarette-research.org/research/index.php/research/research-2014/155-ecig-nicotine

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## SmokeyJoe

Jean claude Vaaldamme said:


> Not that simple, I always drink a lot, dont think I suddenly started drinking more. As for water, havent touched water the last month or so, just milk, cooldrinks and brandy


Theres water in brandy

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## Hooked

Silver said:


> Hi @Hooked
> 
> Lets take Rothmans Blue - which I smoked
> I think it has 1mg nicotine per cigarette.
> 
> So if I smoked one cigarette, you could say I had exposure to 1mg of nicotine.
> 
> Lets say I vape a 6mg liquid. That's 6mg per ml of liquid. So if I were to vape 1ml of liquid - that could be either one third of a tankful of a 3ml tank - or lets say 3 drip sessions on my dripper - which is about 1ml.
> 
> One would look at the above and say - WOW - I am exposing myself to 6 times the amount of nicotine in the 1ml of juice vaped than in a Rothmans cigarette.
> 
> However, what I was trying to say previously is that you can't just compare it like that because the amount of nicotine that enters the bloodstream from vaping is very different to that from smoking.
> 
> As I understand it (from readings quite a while ago), there are several reasons for the smoking to be a far superior and quicker delivery mechanism
> 
> firstly, the smoke particles are MUCH smaller than the vape molecules. So they are more easily absorbed.
> Second, there are tar particles in the cigarette smoke and as I understand it, they get lodged in the lung tissue and "stick" in - allowing the nicotine to get absorbed fast. As opposed to vaping where you breathe in and breathe out and most of the vapour molecules actually come straight out. I have heard that most of the absorption in vaping takes place in the mouth and throat rather than in the lungs.
> I have heard that the cigarettes contain other chemicals which work in combination to improve the nicotine hit.
> 
> Bottom line, if you are a regular smoker, you are likely getting much more nicotine in your system and much faster.
> 
> In my example above, the nic hit I got from a single cigarette was (as I recall) way more than what I would get from a few drip sessions of 6mg juice. The 6mg juice drip session feels very light to me and doesnt really do much. I remember if not having had a smoke for say an hour and then having one - it was a major nic hit - I could feel it very quickly.
> 
> So all I am saying is that one has to look at the absorption rate of the nicotine to determine how much of it is going into your system. Not just how much is contained in a cigarette versus the vape juice. And the level it spikes to - which is apparently the part your brain is addicted to. And its very difficult to compare directly.
> 
> I would need to brush up on the above with references to articles and research - we have discussed these topics a few times ages ago on the forum - but this is how I have understood it from those readings.
> 
> Maybe with today's much higher powered gear and/or with nic salts, which seem to be absorbed faster - we might be seeing more nicotine being delivered - but I am referring to the more conventional gear from a few years back.



Thanks so much for your comprehensive reply @Silver. It's an interesting topic. I'd also like to research it but oh ... time is gone like the wind...

*EDIT*
I certainly hope that most of the nic in vaping is expelled instead of being absorbed. I was actually thinking of this the other day: I go through 30ml of juice a day (3mg nic) in a day, which means 90mg nic. That's a lot of nic! However, it's only if I use the iJust 3 all day that I go through so much. 

When I use the Pico I go through about 20ml, so it's not just the nic strength but also the mod which is being used that determines how much nic I'm consuming. 

It's a fascinating subject!

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## Gringo

Lets not try and justify our " lekker " habit with over analysing it.... 
I did not smoke, but took up vaping because aI liked the taste of the juice and also discovered that i enjoy the nic in my system. I got nic rush in the beginning, so make no mistake cig or vape, your body knows that it is not having a " hair cut ".
So for me, it is what it is....it has its pro's and cons. The pro side for me ? I have not felt this good " training" in years... and im more relaxed.
Society make the rules of what's good and what's bad for you, you have the health freaks, bunny huggers, social activists and many more ......
I choice not to be a follower like the rest of the herd, do I care if the above mentioned people judge me ? 
Nope ... what ever makes them happy... 
So i do what makes me happy and @Jean claude Vaaldamme if it feels that you have less gout... vape on bro 
Peace out

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## tony_he

Interesting to know main problem of gout is stress...


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## Jean claude Vaaldamme

tony_he said:


> Interesting to know main problem of gout is stress...


Yes I was reading a discussion one day on gout and all the foods etc people said you must stay away off. Then a doctor came and said people that get gout can do what they like, I they stress even water will give them gout. 
Now I know that statement is not very scientific, but I have actually found it very true. By nature I dont really stress much, Im as calm as you can get. But everytime we go camp for a weekeend away, the friday morning I can barely walk from gout. Then I found its the stress. Not major stress, but the whole week thinking, am I going to finish all my work, when am I going to pack etc. Same with doing big projects and my cashflow getting low, on the dot everytime I get gout.

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## Chukin'Vape

I've been diagnosed with Gout also - last year actually, i'm not at medication level - managing it through diet at this point. I honestly believe that if I was smoking and drinking, I would be on the medication already.


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## tony_he

Less stress also means less smoking.


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## Jean claude Vaaldamme

Chukin'Vape said:


> I've been diagnosed with Gout also - last year actually, i'm not at medication level - managing it through diet at this point. I honestly believe that if I was smoking and drinking, I would be on the medication already.


 Just wait as time goes it will just get more frequent. But I also not using permanant medication like puricos(?). Dont like to drink pills everyday. If its just a light attack I just take a painkiller. Big attacks painkiller and Colchicine. Stay away from gout bombs or any anti infamatory pills, your kidneys will pack up once you start using them fequently. Colchicine does not work fast, day or two, but its best. Be very carefull on amount of colchicine or you going to run to the toilet

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