# DIY Eliquid almost no Flavour



## Bosvark (12/4/17)

Hi, 

I need assistance, I have been mixing up a few DIY recipes using TFA concentrates at 15-20%.

1. All of the recipes I have mixed thus far has almost no flavour.
2. I am using a scale and eliquid calculator to mix, not drop counts.
3. I do not believe that I have vapour's tongue, as this is not the case with premiim mixes.
4. I am using a Smok Alien, with baby beast.

Please assist, any comments appreciated


----------



## KZOR (12/4/17)

Post one of the recipes. I will mix it up and see if I experience the same thing.
Often higher percentages does not necessarily mean stronger flavor or certain flavors can mute others.

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 1


----------



## Bosvark (12/4/17)

Hi,

Thanks alot. I am out of Ideas,here are some of the recipes I have tried-

Bombies Nana Cream Clone(30ml 3mg Nic) (VG/PG 70/30)
TFA Strawberry 2.1ml 7%
TFA Banana Cream 1.5ml 5%
TFA Dragonfruit. 0.9ml 3%


Atmose Fraga(Fumonoid) 30ml(3mg Nic)
TFA Strawberry 1.2ml 4%
TFA Bavarian Cream 0.48ml 1.6%
TFA Sweet Cream 0.39 1.3%

Tiger's blood 100ml(3mg Nic)
Strawberry 12ml 12%
Watermelon 6ml 6%
Coconut 1.5ml 1.5ml

I have tried different steeping times, 2 days, 7 days, 14 days and 30 days, same lack of flavour though.


----------



## rogue zombie (12/4/17)

Hmm... recipes look standard.

There is no way to know, but it could be that the concentrates arent all that fresh.

I've found a lack of flavour when using concentrates that have been sitting around for too long.


----------



## RichJB (12/4/17)

It would be interesting to know what the shelf life is. Iirc Wayne reckoned about 18 months at full strength then they start to gradually lose zip. It's one reason why I don't want to build a massive stock of flavours but would prefer fewer flavours with higher throughput, not buying more than 10ml at a time.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Bosvark (13/4/17)

Thanks for all the replies.
How does one ensure that you get fresh flavours though, trial and error, and throwing away?


----------



## RichJB (13/4/17)

I would use vendors who have high throughput. Dedicated DIY vendors on the forum are used by most DIYers so you can be reasonably sure that they are ordering in fresh stocks regularly. Small neighbourhood vape shops who don't have much online presence may have had the same concentrates on the shelf for a long time.

I think, as the industry grows, it would be convenient if they introduced a standard which requires flavour houses to issue bottling and use by dates. The problem with concentrates is that they are rebottled by vendors so it would require the vendor to faithfully reproduce this data on their own labels. While many would, it's not guaranteed. 

Overall, I think the safest is to initially make small purchases from several different vendors and decide who is giving you the best value. Compare the concentrates for taste/strength/freshness and then also pay attention to things like the weight of the full bottle and the level to which it is filled. I am not going to name names because accidents can happen and mistakes can be inadvertent. But when I buy 100ml of PG nic and the liquid weighs 91g when decanted, that is a red flag for me. 100ml of PG nic should weigh around 103g. I recently weighed two 10ml bottles of concentrate bought from two different vendors, each using the same type of HDPE dropper bottle. The first was 17.3g, the second 14.3g. Concentrates do have different weights so that may account for some of the difference. But the 17g bottle was filled almost to the nozzle, the 14g bottle wasn't even filled to the shoulder. So, as with all consumer issues, it's a case of doing your research and finding who offers the best value. Value is about more than price.

At the same time, I think it would help your DIY to extend your range beyond TFA. There is nothing wrong with TFA, they have some of the best flavours in DIY. Some duds too but every brand has duds. It's just that most of the top recipes now feature an eclectic range of flavours. Recipe developers use what works best, they aren't guided by brand loyalty. Some of the brands like Inw, JF and Flv cost a bit more. But they can also be very potent. A R50-R75 concentrate that requires only 2% is still better value than a R40 concentrate that needs 6% to achieve the same flavour strength. Flv Rich Cinnamon needs only a drop or two per 10ml of juice so a 10ml bottle will last forever. Although we then encounter the flavour aging problem again. 

So you need to work out where your happy place is. My happy place is popular flavours used in several recipes where I can be reasonably sure that I'll finish the 10ml bottle in under a year. I'd also rather buy one 10ml bottle of a flavour once a year than buy a 30ml bottle and hope it doesn't fade over the three years that it will take to use it up. There are probably only five flavours (TFA Strawberry Ripe, Cheesecake Graham Crust, Vanilla Bean Ice Cream, and then Capella Sugar Cookie and Vanilla Custard) where I'd buy 20ml or more. But I make a vast range of juices. If you only have a handful of ADV recipes which you mix repeatedly, buying 30, 50 or even 100ml of some concentrates might be the better option.

Anyway, good luck and I hope you get to the bottom of your flavour problem.

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 2


----------



## stevie g (13/4/17)

@RichJB what is your all time favorite diy recipe?.


----------



## RichJB (13/4/17)

Tranceinate's Simply Cannoli. It's not just that it's a great flavour. It took two of the riskiest and most difficult flavours - FA Joy and Nonna's Cake - and melded them into a banger. That takes real talent and understanding of flavours imo.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 2


----------



## Rude Rudi (13/4/17)

RichJB said:


> Tranceinate's Simply Cannoli. It's not just that it's a great flavour. It took two of the riskiest and most difficult flavours - FA Joy and Nonna's Cake - and melded them into a banger. That takes real talent and understanding of flavours imo.



Amen


----------



## zadiac (13/4/17)

rogue zombie said:


> Hmm... recipes look standard.
> 
> There is no way to know, but it could be that the concentrates arent all that fresh.
> 
> I've found a lack of flavour when using concentrates that have been sitting around for too long.



I have concentrates that are ancient and still strong. Doubt it's that. His consentrates cannot be that old. Try testing in a dripper rather than a tank.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## Bosvark (13/4/17)

RichJB said:


> I would use vendors who have high throughput. Dedicated DIY vendors on the forum are used by most DIYers so you can be reasonably sure that they are ordering in fresh stocks regularly. Small neighbourhood vape shops who don't have much online presence may have had the same concentrates on the shelf for a long time.
> 
> I think, as the industry grows, it would be convenient if they introduced a standard which requires flavour houses to issue bottling and use by dates. The problem with concentrates is that they are rebottled by vendors so it would require the vendor to faithfully reproduce this data on their own labels. While many would, it's not guaranteed.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the detailed response. I will be looking into you recommendations, and see if that resolves my issues.

Thanks once again.


----------



## Bosvark (13/4/17)

zadiac said:


> I have concentrates that are ancient and still strong. Doubt it's that. His consentrates cannot be that old. Try testing in a dripper rather than a tank.


Thanks. Will get a dripper for testing.


----------



## Chukin'Vape (13/4/17)

Just thinking out loud here - but if all those standard recipe's are giving you limited flavour, could it not be the tank that you are using?


----------



## Bosvark (13/4/17)

Hi,

My problem is that it is only the Diy liquids, not store bought.


----------



## Chukin'Vape (13/4/17)

Bosvark said:


> Hi,
> 
> My problem is that it is only the Diy liquids, not store bought.


Where did you buy your concentrates and the bases VG/PG ? Also what nic are you using?


----------



## Static (13/4/17)

You said you using a scale, are the grams set on the calculator?


----------



## Bosvark (13/4/17)

Static said:


> You said you using a scale, are the grams set on the calculator?


I am using the app eliquid recipes, for calculations.The weight of the bases, concentrates and Nic are preprogrammed.

A forum memeber indicated that they are having the same problem.And bought their flavours from the same vendor as I did.

So seems that, this might be the issue

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## zandernwn (13/4/17)

I can help but notice all contain strawberry. Are you not maybe one of the select few who can't taste Strawberry?

The recipes are pretty much within the bounds of what they are capable of so it's not over or under flavored.

If not then may I suggest you increase your pg/vg rate to 50:50. It may help increase the potency.

And the only other thing I can think of is maybe you need sweetener. Most commercial juices contain sweeteners. If you fresh off the commercial juices and you pallette is not used to unsweetened flavors then it may give you the impression that they lack flavor.


Maybe try tfa sweetener at 1-2% or even CAP super sweet at 0.5 - 1.5%. See if that helps

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


----------



## Bosvark (13/4/17)

zandernwn said:


> I can help but notice all contain strawberry. Are you not maybe one of the select few who can't taste Strawberry?
> 
> The recipes are pretty much within the bounds of what they are capable of so it's not over or under flavored.
> 
> ...


Thanks, will give the sweetner a shot. It is however not only the strawberry, these are only a few of the last recipes I have tried.


----------



## KZOR (13/4/17)

Bosvark said:


> Bombies Nana Cream Clone


K m9.
Just made Bombies and mine has descent flavor.
All i can think is that your TFA Strawberry batch is too old and has lost its zing or as @zandernwn suggested that you may need to spice up things a bit by adding some sweetener or Strawberry ripe.
Let's hope you do not have a negative reaction to DIY and is only capable of vaping vendor juices.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## rogue zombie (13/4/17)

I dont know hey.

I have FA Custard for around 8-12 months. Can't remember exactly. I recent tried it standalone at 3 and 4%.... tasted like "something", close to nothing.

Then, you don't know how long it's been on the retailers shelf either.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Effjh (13/4/17)

Bosvark said:


> I am using the app eliquid recipes, for calculations.The weight of the bases, concentrates and Nic are preprogrammed.
> 
> A forum memeber indicated that they are having the same problem.And bought their flavours from the same vendor as I did.
> 
> So seems that, this might be the issue



Which Vendor?

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## method1 (13/4/17)

Concentrates have a pretty decent shelf life. 1-2 years in general. Doubt that's the issue.

Are you new to DIY?

I ask because a lot of (especially import) juices use sweetener and many DIYers have a similar experience when transitioning to making their own recipes without sweetener.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Bosvark (13/4/17)

KZOR said:


> K m9.
> Just made Bombies and mine has descent flavor.
> All i can think is that your TFA Strawberry batch is too old and has lost its zing or as @zandernwn suggested that you may need to spice up things a bit by adding some sweetener or Strawberry ripe.
> Let's hope you do not have a negative reaction to DIY and is only capable of vaping vendor juices.



Thanks for the feedback. I hope I am not only able to vape vendor juices.

If you get decent flavour, it baffles me. The Vendor where I bought the concentrates contacted me and will be collecting the concentrates for testing.

Hope I can get some sort of clarity


----------



## Bosvark (13/4/17)

Guys, 

I really need to thank all for the feedback and input. Never expected so much reaction.

I will provide an update after the Vendor gets testing results back to me.


----------



## zandernwn (13/4/17)

rogue zombie said:


> I dont know hey.
> 
> I have FA Custard for around 8-12 months. Can't remember exactly. I recent tried it standalone at 3 and 4%.... tasted like "something", close to nothing.
> 
> Then, you don't know how long it's been on the retailers shelf either.


I have plenty of flavorings that are 12-14 months old. They have been kept in a cool dark place and sealed properly and I still use them often and that are all still good. Did you use strawberry ripe by any chance. Strawberry ripe does lose the spicy top notes after a two or so week steep. You need to buff it up with tfa strawberry or cap sweet strawberry. Lychee is also notorious for going floral and losing some potency.

None of my flavors have ever gone bad. I did have a bad batch of fw sugar cookies once. But that was quite a long time ago and it wasn't purchased from a vendor. I purchased that from someone who didn't like the flavor. So that maybe due to improper storage.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


----------



## DanielSLP (13/4/17)

Hey man, do you know by chance what scale you are using?


----------



## zandernwn (13/4/17)

Bosvark said:


> Guys,
> 
> I really need to thank all for the feedback and input. Never expected so much reaction.
> 
> I will provide an update after the Vendor gets testing results back to me.


He also spoke with me (this is exactly why I choose to buy from him almost solely). I did a count just now and I have 53 flavors of his right now and have probably got 90 odd concentrates from him in the last few months (most recent purchase was 3 or so week back) 

I don't have any issues with any of those Flavorings

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


----------



## Bosvark (17/4/17)

DanielSLP said:


> Hey man, do you know by chance what scale you are using?


I am using a MH Series pocket scale.


----------



## zadiac (17/4/17)

Bosvark said:


> Hi,
> 
> My problem is that it is only the Diy liquids, not store bought.



Only diff between self made liquid and store bought, is that the store bought liquids are mixed by experts. Ingredients are the same as what we use at home.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Bosvark (30/4/17)

Hi, the vendor got back to me, and indicated that they tested the concentrates and all seem fine.However I can actully taste the new concentrates mixed up the same way as before.


----------



## RichJB (10/5/17)

Some tips from Wayne.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Trashcanman3284 (19/5/17)

I've been mixing for about 8/9 months now. My overall experience has been exactly this; smells great, tastes like nothing, or close to nothing. I have gone from drops to weight, over flavouring to under flavouring, with sweetener and without, shake and vape to a months steep, milk frother to crock pot. I make use of popular recipes and ones posted here. Ive bought concentrates from 3 different reputable vendors, so I'm sure its not the concentrates. Tried different tanks, drippers, wicks and coils. Not much difference between any of then flavour wise.
It feels like I'm missing just that last trick to pull it off. Something obvious. It's really really frustrating, especially seeing everyone else being able to pull it off.


----------



## Silver (19/5/17)

Thanks @RichJB 
This is very interesting

Reactions: Thanks 1


----------



## RichJB (19/5/17)

It's very exciting as we are still largely in the pioneering phase of understanding how food flavourings work in a purely olfactory application. There are so many diverse aspects, such as two very tasty standalone flavours producing a horrible alchemy when they are put together. Another aspect that has emerged recently is that of flavours turning off and then on again. I was chatting with one very experienced mixer who says that Flavorah flavours can fade very quickly within a few days while steeping - but most of the flavour then returns with continued steeping. And then another quirk that has been noted with Flv is is that a particular flavour can be excellent at 1%, turns horrible at 2%, but then becomes very tasty again at 3%. Why these things should happen isn't clear yet. But I guess answers will emerge as the knowledge database grows.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Andre (19/5/17)

Trashcanman3284 said:


> I've been mixing for about 8/9 months now. My overall experience has been exactly this; smells great, tastes like nothing, or close to nothing. I have gone from drops to weight, over flavouring to under flavouring, with sweetener and without, shake and vape to a months steep, milk frother to crock pot. I make use of popular recipes and ones posted here. Ive bought concentrates from 3 different reputable vendors, so I'm sure its not the concentrates. Tried different tanks, drippers, wicks and coils. Not much difference between any of then flavour wise.
> It feels like I'm missing just that last trick to pull it off. Something obvious. It's really really frustrating, especially seeing everyone else being able to pull it off.


This stumps me. Totally. Something is rotten. What program do you use? Post some snapshots of your recipes please.


----------

