# So called HE Wood Mods



## Spydro

A bit of a rant Admin I need to get off my chest. Do with it what you see fit.

A great irritation of mine as someone who crafted high end woods for over 50 years relates to so called high end mods made from a slab of wood or with wood panels that are cheap dyed woods being used to drive the price of the mod way up. Eye appeal sells, but are you being taken, cheated out of extra money for them? All too often the answer is yes.

A favored candidate for dyed woods is Buckeye Burl because it is open grained, easily accepts dye or the stabilization it actually needs. But is not expensive wood as true fine woods go. Dyed, double dyed, triple dyed or stabilization ads some cost, but not even close to what they are charging for them when made into mods. Far too many MFG's are using these relatively cheap woods and calling them high end so they can raise the prices up... raise them up to many times more than what the mods are really worth. Many of them do it whether large commercial operations or a craftsman in their home workshop.

Case in point from a well known US distributor of the exact same popular mod model with the same grade of wood used, one double dyed the other triple dyed. Maybe to some buyers they have different eye appeal. But a $250 difference in cost for very little extra out of pocket cost to make the higher priced one is just plain robbery.




For $600 you can buy some truly high end wood mods from some of the best makers worldwide who do use the highest grade woods available, woods that do not need to be dyed or stabilized to give them eye appeal or longevity. Their's are true works of art, worth every penny they cost, they earn your pride of ownership, bragging rights.

Bottom line,.. buyers beware. Take the time to make sure what you are paying for in the name of high end is in fact high end.

Reactions: Like 5 | Agree 8 | Winner 1 | Informative 7


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## Rob Fisher

I have to agree 100% @Spydro! At $350 a Kodama is a reasonable buy.. anything more you can get some real high mods! 

Same story with the M17 from Axis... at thier current prices they are already overpriced... I got the really expensive one (Hybrid) and I have to say it's a piece of crap! I had to use super glue to keep it together and when I saw what was keeping it together I wasn't surprised it broke... most dissapointing mod I have ever had... the standard wood one is better but I'm afraid M17's are dead to me!

Reactions: Informative 4


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## Raindance

I do not wish to be disrespectful or prejudice towards anyone elses choices or tastes but I feel the whole HE market is somewhat over inflated. We all know the story of the emperors new clothes, and I sometimes feel it is time someone in the crowd points out the emperors nudity.

Much of this market seems to be fueled by vanity rather than actual value as this is the very essence that makes the whole fashion industry go round, these products are marketed around the same strategy.

Glass is glass and SS304 is SS304. Just because production processes are so inefficient that production runs can not keep up with the professional outfits does not make a product any better than the rest. It does raise production costs exponentially and this is the main reason for the cost of the end product. Either that or greed.

In either case, I will not be caught walking around nude in public.

Regards

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 5 | Winner 1


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## Clouds4Days

This is my whole take on HE gear, i love most of the stuff HE i have been seeing, they are really beautiful pieces. 
But....

I think the main problem with all this "High End" Gear popping out now and all the confusion to "High End" (HE) is, i dont think the correct word is actually being used.

When one mentions the word High End you expect a full blown custom mod made unique from inside out and this is not the case.

I said it in a previous post on another thread. The exterior of the Mods are all good but they are using another makers chipset "A Ferrari F430 body with a BMW Z4 Engine" 
If im paying top dollar i dont want a chipset that someone else has on a Q class or dna that cost 5k less than my mod.

The correct word i think should be - Limited Custom Mod same with a tank, Limited RTA.

This is my view and as to why everyone keeps asking what is HE and why is it HE....
Its not HE its Limited Custom.....

Reactions: Agree 7


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## Spydro

Rob Fisher said:


> I have to agree 100% @Spydro! At $350 a Kodama is a reasonable buy.. anything more you can get some real high mods!
> 
> Same story with the M17 from Axis... at thier current prices they are already overpriced... I got the really expensive one (Hybrid) and I have to say it's a piece of crap! I had to use super glue to keep it together and when I saw what was keeping it together I wasn't surprised it broke... most dissapointing mod I have ever had... the standard wood one is better but I'm afraid M17's are dead to me!



I decided that I didn't want a Kodama at all. But I wouldn't have had a problem paying $200-$350 for an Ohmsmium I truly liked (despite the cheap woods they are also gouging folks with) if I had caught one still in stock when I tried to buy it. All of their stabilized mod production seems to be declining, so doubt I'll ever buy one now. 

Sorry to here the M17's suffer negative's too. I never really considered them despite lots of raves about them here. 

I expect that the one I have coming from China is also going to be a piece of crap. There was a flurry of interest here, even calling them the best TC mod they had ever owned that now are not even mentioned anymore, and have already resold them.


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## Spydro

Raindance said:


> I do not wish to be disrespectful or prejudice towards anyone elses choices or tastes but I feel the whole HE market is somewhat over inflated. We all know the story of the emperors new clothes, and I sometimes feel it is time someone in the crowd points out the emperors nudity.
> 
> Much of this market seems to be fueled by vanity rather than actual value as this is the very essence that makes the whole fashion industry go round, these products are marketed around the same strategy.
> 
> Glass is glass and SS304 is SS304. Just because production processes are so inefficient that production runs can not keep up with the professional outfits does not make a product any better than the rest. It does raise production costs exponentially and this is the main reason for the cost of the end product. Either that or greed.
> 
> In either case, I will not be caught walking around nude in public.
> 
> Regards



Agree, but they know folks will pay whatever the cost is if they believe in "first look" reviews, or are otherwise mislead about what they are buying.

(Folks walking around nude in public is not all the uncommon here in Sin City).

Reactions: Funny 2


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## SAVapeGear

I must say,I am very happy with my M17.

Sorry to hear about yours @Rob Fisher (That one should have gone back to Axis to be sorted out.)

I have been treating mine from the beginning with mineral oil and with wax and I must say it is holding up very well.

Wood just got a little darker,but that is expected from getting proper treatment.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Clouds4Days

Spydro said:


> I decided that I didn't want a Kodama at all. But I wouldn't have had a problem paying $200-$350 for an Ohmsmium I truly liked (despite the cheap woods they are also gouging folks with) if I had caught one still in stock when I tried to buy it. All of their stabilized mod production seems to be declining, so doubt I'll ever buy one now.
> 
> Sorry to here the M17's suffer negative's too. I never really considered them despite lots of raves about them here.
> 
> I expect that the one I have coming from China is also going to be a piece of crap. There was a flurry of interest here, even calling them the best TC mod they had ever owned that now are not even mentioned anymore, and have already resold them.



Our local guys here sirvape.co.za have the Ohmsmium in stock @Spydro if you still keen.

http://www.sirvape.co.za/collection...brid-stabilised-wood-asmodus-ohmsmium-80w-mod

Reactions: Thanks 1


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## Spydro

Clouds4Days said:


> This is my whole take on HE gear, i love most of the stuff HE i have been seeing, they are really beautiful pieces.
> But....
> 
> I think the main problem with all this "High End" Gear popping out now and all the confusion to "High End" (HE) is, i dont think the correct word is actually being used.
> 
> When one mentions the word High End you expect a full blown custom mod made unique from inside out and this is not the case.
> 
> I said it in a previous post on another thread. The exterior of the Mods are all good but they are using another makers chipset "A Ferrari F430 body with a BMW Z4 Engine"
> If im paying top dollar i dont want a chipset that someone else has on a Q class or dna that cost 5k less than my mod.
> 
> The correct word i think should be - Limited Custom Mod same with a tank, Limited RTA.
> 
> This is my view and as to why everyone keeps asking what is HE and why is it HE....
> Its not HE its Limited Custom.....



Well, I agree that the terminology is used wrong. Whether it be mass produced, a "limited" or custom made it can be higher grade. But also being limited or custom made doesn't mean it is in fact high grade. 

I see the HE term as being used for something the person using it feels is in fact higher end, to show pride of ownership, or for ego/bragging rights/how much it cost. 

IMO $30 gear can work just as well as a $300 gear if you know how to set it up and use it.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 4


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## Petrus

Very interesting read guys, yes I am in the market again for a new mod, this stab wood HE thing got me thinking, and I think I am going for the SX Mini Q not really High End, but I think it is quite a bang for your buck.


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## Tai

For that kind of money, for me, Q mini all day long

Reactions: Like 1


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## Christos

Petrus said:


> Very interesting read guys, yes I am in the market again for a new mod, this stab wood HE thing got me thinking, and I think I am going for the SX Mini Q not really High End, but I think it is quite a bang for your buck.


I have a q class (not the mini) and I think it's HE stuff. Exceptional quality and durability.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Petrus

Christos said:


> I have a q class (not the mini) and I think it's HE stuff. Exceptional quality and durability.


What tank "leakproof" do you run on it @Christos


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## Paulie

Spydro said:


> A bit of a rant Admin I need to get off my chest. Do with it what you see fit.
> 
> A great irritation of mine as someone who crafted high end woods for over 50 years relates to so called high end mods made from a slab of wood or with wood panels that are cheap dyed woods being used to drive the price of the mod way up. Eye appeal sells, but are you being taken, cheated out of extra money for them? All too often the answer is yes.
> 
> A favored candidate for dyed woods is Buckeye Burl because it is open grained, easily accepts dye or the stabilization it actually needs. But is not expensive wood as true fine woods go. Dyed, double dyed, triple dyed or stabilization ads some cost, but not even close to what they are charging for them when made into mods. Far too many MFG's are using these relatively cheap woods and calling them high end so they can raise the prices up... raise them up to many times more than what the mods are really worth. Many of them do it whether large commercial operations or a craftsman in their home workshop.
> 
> Case in point from a well known US distributor of the exact same popular mod model with the same grade of wood used, one double dyed the other triple dyed. Maybe to some buyers they have different eye appeal. But a $250 difference in cost for very little extra out of pocket cost to make the higher priced one is just plain robbery.
> 
> View attachment 81732
> 
> 
> For $600 you can buy some truly high end wood mods from some of the best makers worldwide who do use the highest grade woods available, woods that do not need to be dyed or stabilized to give them eye appeal or longevity. There's are true works of art, worth every penny they cost, they earn your pride of ownership, bragging rights.
> 
> Bottom line,.. buyers beware. Take the time to make sure what you are paying for in the name of high end is in fact high end.




The no question you are right about this but from what ive learned so far and im still learning is to do stab wood you need to get all the right acrylics and the run through process and ones with more colour make it alot more difficult to do from what i heard! I could be wrong and it would be cool for someone to come explain in detail the process! Think we should get some 2 ill find out more info and get back on ere

Reactions: Like 1


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## Christos

Petrus said:


> What tank "leakproof" do you run on it @Christos


I run a uwell crown v1 on it.

Reactions: Thanks 1


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## Rob Fisher

Petrus said:


> Very interesting read guys, yes I am in the market again for a new mod, this stab wood HE thing got me thinking, and I think I am going for the SX Mini Q not really High End, but I think it is quite a bang for your buck.



Can't argue that @Petrus! It's an awesome mod!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Spydro

Paulie said:


> The no question you are right about this but from what ive learned so far and im still learning is to do stab wood you need to get all the right acrylics and the run through process and ones with more colour make it alot more difficult to do from what i heard! I could be wrong and it would be cool for someone to come explain in detail the process! Think we should get some 2 ill find out more info and get back on ere



Pressure stabilizing and dying wood is not rocket science at all. I did it for many years. Yes the more you know about the characteristics of the many different wood species to know how and why for a species makes it even easier. But all of that information is readily available on line now days verses when I started decades ago you learned by doing it trial and error. And you do not have to have expensive equipment to do it in a home hobby shop environment. One of my setups that would have done a couple of mod blanks at a time cost around $28 total way back when. You do have to use the right products to impregnate the woods with, and some of the name brands can be expensive. The up side to using high grade woods is they don't take in much of these products to seal them.

I went through a lot of information about the process, equipment and supplies needed with a gent here privately to help him along some months back (and don't feel the need to do it again). As I said all the information can be easily found on line now days. So I'd suggest looking there for your answers.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Informative 1


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## kev mac

Spydro said:


> I decided that I didn't want a Kodama at all. But I wouldn't have had a problem paying $200-$350 for an Ohmsmium I truly liked (despite the cheap woods they are also gouging folks with) if I had caught one still in stock when I tried to buy it. All of their stabilized mod production seems to be declining, so doubt I'll ever buy one now.
> 
> Sorry to here the M17's suffer negative's too. I never really considered them despite lots of raves about them here.
> 
> I expect that the one I have coming from China is also going to be a piece of crap. There was a flurry of interest here, even calling them the best TC mod they had ever owned that now are not even mentioned anymore, and have already resold them.


Seems to be a lot of this going around,greed and ignorance is never in shortage.

Reactions: Agree 5


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## n0ugh7_zw

But hasn't this always been the case with perceived "HE" gear? Back in the days when tube mods were more popular, remember how expensive some of the authentic were? where as the clones, which were made with the same raw materials and tooling, were often less than 10% of the cost? Sure economy of scale plays a part.... but 10 times? seriously? TEN?..... TEN?

No ways, its madness. i've just been through a thing of getting gatvol with "Authentic" gear thats supposedly HE (due to price and brandname, not performance) and honestly, it's left a really sour taste in my mouth.

And so the same thing is happening with stabwood. Frankly with western made atties too. the prices are too damn high. Twisted messes is just about the only guy with the right mindset, he contracts wismec to make his atty designs, and is open and above board about it, and charges accordingly. DotMod..... does not, just as an example.

Whats worse, is it makes it really plain to see that the international reviewers (especially the ones, who get into releasing hardware) are as bent as twisted as they come.

It's actually gotten to the point, frankly, where buzz terms like "USA made" and such, honestly weigh up as cons in my mind. Because to be totally honest, authentic china gear, has treated me better than any authentic USA made stuff i've bought.

Granted i've not gone as far down that rabbit hole as some (Around $350.00 atties only, haven't thrown money away on "HE" mods). But honestly what i've experienced has made me not keen at all to go any further.

I don't mean to pick on the USA, but unfortunately the items that have pissed me off, come from there.

Currently i'm using a Wotofo Troll V2 25mm, on my iJoy Maxo.

There is no fancy backstory to the setup, its not made of exotic materials, it's not an expensive setup. Yet, in terms of effort vs. vapor quality... it beats the $350.00 in atties from "Authentic makers" who are all heralded by the international review crowds as being earth shattering performers.

Ultimately, thats what it comes down to for me, effort vs. reward. Life's too short to suffer through building some difficult crappy thing, and only have mediocre performance to show for it. Thats killed a lot of things for me:

Doode RDA
Goon RDA
454 big block
TM Lite
Neutron RDA
DNA 200 (battery life, for LiPo based, reliability for 18650 based)
DNA 75 (useless board efficiency)
TM 24
RTA's (all of them, no exceptions)

Realistically my next HE purchase is probably going to be the SX Mini G Class, I might pick up a Q Mini. But the G class looks more interesting.

_*Mmmm, just realised, this post is a bit of a derailment of the thread, sorry admins, delete it if you must, but i don't have the heart to do it, after all that typing. *_

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 3 | Disagree 1


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## n0ugh7_zw

So, i guess another question would be... Why don't mod makers, use for example the board from a evic vtc mini (i've seen them around and a about for between $15-25 each) way cheaper than boards from either YiHi or Evolv, and despite that, they're solid reliable boards. Then they can use a proper fat daddy 510 ($5-8 each) buy a chunk of stab wood off of ebay or amazon ($60-80) and then make a mod? $113.00 in materials, then say another $30-40 in machine time + $20-30 markup.... so you're looking at $183.00 + shipping.... that to me doesn't sound like an unreasonable prospect, granted i'm not an experienced modder or anything, and at that kinda mark up, you'd have to make a lot of units at a time... But i mean, is it really that impossible? 

Or is it like it is with juice, where vendors end up, jacking the price up significantly?


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## Rob Fisher

n0ugh7_zw said:


> So, i guess another question would be... Why don't mod makers, use for example the board from a evic vtc mini (i've seen them around and a about for between $15-25 each) way cheaper than boards from either YiHi or Evolv,



Because the HE boys want a better board like the Yihi, DNA or Dicode's etc. Supply and Demand... despite the high costs of these mods they continue to be in demand because people want something exceptional.

For those that want a cheaper option a block of wood with an evic chip and a Fat Daddy 510 is an option. China are pumping them out at a rate of knots at the moment so they are freely available. 

Same reason some people buy a Ferarri and not a Golf.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## n0ugh7_zw

Rob Fisher said:


> Because the HE boys want a better board like the Yihi, DNA or Dicode's etc. Supply and Demand... despite the high costs of these mods they continue to be in demand because people want something exceptional.
> 
> For those that want a cheaper option a block of wood with an evic chip and a Fat Daddy 510 is an option. China are pumping them out at a rate of knots at the moment so they are freely available.
> 
> Same reason some people buy a Ferarri and not a Golf.



But thats the point, better is a matter of opinion. 

But i guess its like anything, guys will charge what people will pay, and that doesn't have to equate back to what the things actually worth, or the ultimate quality of the item in question.


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## Rob Fisher

n0ugh7_zw said:


> But thats the point, better is a matter of opinion.
> 
> But i guess its like anything, guys will charge what people will pay, and that doesn't have to equate back to what the things actually worth, or the ultimate quality of the item in question.



There is little question that most of these high end mods are WAY better built than the normal run of the mill mods. Just open one and look at the quality of the wires for starters...

But this is a pointless discussion because you are right... better is a matter of opinion.


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## Genosmate

n0ugh7_zw said:


> So, i guess another question would be... Why don't mod makers, use for example the board from a evic vtc mini (i've seen them around and a about for between $15-25 each) way cheaper than boards from either YiHi or Evolv, and despite that, they're solid reliable boards. Then they can use a proper fat daddy 510 ($5-8 each) buy a chunk of stab wood off of ebay or amazon ($60-80) and then make a mod? $113.00 in materials, then say another $30-40 in machine time + $20-30 markup.... so you're looking at $183.00 + shipping.... that to me doesn't sound like an unreasonable prospect, granted i'm not an experienced modder or anything, and at that kinda mark up, you'd have to make a lot of units at a time... But i mean, is it really that impossible?
> 
> Or is it like it is with juice, where vendors end up, jacking the price up significantly?



I don't have any Stabilised Wood HE mods,but I have made some mods.
Whilst I wouldn't disagree with your basic costings except for factoring in set up costs and ongoing costs.Theres one cost that IMO is way out;
The labour aspect @ 30-40 USD.
To give you some idea of the time it takes ; On a straightforward mechanical squonker it takes me between 4.5 and 6 hours just to sand it and apply the CA finish and polish.Even if I wanted to sell them theres no way the labour would be that low.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 6 | Winner 1 | Thanks 1 | Informative 4


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## n0ugh7_zw

Genosmate said:


> I don't have any Stabilised Wood HE mods,but I have made some mods.
> Whilst I wouldn't disagree with your basic costings except for factoring in set up costs and ongoing costs.Theres one cost that IMO is way out;
> The labour aspect @ 30-40 USD.
> To give you some idea of the time it takes ; On a straightforward mechanical squonker it takes me between 4.5 and 6 hours just to sand it and apply the CA finish and polish.Even if I wanted to sell them theres no way the labour would be that low.



fair enough i didn't factor in the amount of time involved, nor the initial setup. 

In my head i had a picture of a machine shop that already has a bunch of equipment, so it'd be a matter of tooling and making jigs and that kinda thing.


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## Maxxis

@Rob Fisher I have to agree with you on the M17. Absolute piece of shit to me. 

DNA75 is terrible 
Had the the 510 fail
Getting arcing issues on the negative 
Inside the acrylic isn't nearly worked off 
Crack in the wood. 


All this for the epic price of R7700. Money that could have gone to a proper manufacturer. Sad day indeed 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Reactions: Agree 1


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## RichJB

Axis seem to be pissing off quite a number of customers.


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