# How far have we really come in Vaping devices?



## Rob Fisher (14/9/18)

I was chatting to @Daniel and he was trying to convince me to do reviews again and we chatted about the good old Serpent Mini 25 because he said my review is what made him buy one... and then he thought a shoot-off between the SM25 and Dvarw DL would make a good video.

It made me get out of my chair and look for an SM25. Found one and cleaned it. Put in a 2.5mm Ni80 Alien just like I would in the Dvarw. Wicked it with Titanium Fiber Cotton just like I would with the Dvarw. And filled it with Red Pill... and you know the rest! Oh, and I also put it on a DNA75C just like the Dvarw!

And? Well, there is not that much of a difference if truth be told... the SM25 was a game changer for RTA's and was the tank that converted me to being an RTA convert. The Dvarw still wins for me at the end of the day because it does have slightly better flavour, better airflow and juice capacity... as well as an easier build. 

But the real point is we haven't come as far as we think in the last few years... yes leaking and ease of build are a lot better these days and things like the Billet Box are fantastic for out and about but at the end of the day, an old product like an SM25 can hold it's own against some of the best RTA's available today!

Hi Ho @Silver is a classic example... some of his gear came off the Ark with the animals after the flood and some were with Moses in the bullrushes but at the end of the day those products work perfectly for him.

We all suffer from wanting the new new thing and not all new things are better! The Dvarw DL still rules but the SM25 is a classic and a game changer!

Reactions: Like 7 | Winner 10 | Informative 1


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## Tai (14/9/18)

Nice review Uncle @Rob Fisher

Reactions: Agree 1 | Thanks 1


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## Neal (14/9/18)

Interesting observation Dr. Rob. I have not owned an SM25 but still run an old sub tank mini on a Hana that I have owned for around 3 years and it still does the job on a daily basis. Perhaps we have reached a vaping plateau and are just trying to reinvent the wheel?

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1


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## Rob Fisher (14/9/18)

Neal said:


> Interesting observation Dr. Rob. I have not owned an SM25 but still run an old sub tank mini on a Hana that I have owned for around 3 years and it still does the job on a daily basis. Perhaps we have reached a vaping plateau and are just trying to reinvent the wheel?



Yip the Sub Tank Mini was another Classic and still holds it's own today!

Some of the new devices are certainly a step forward like the DNA75C and RDA's like the Skyfall and slight nuances on some of the products but by in large the vape industry is driven on hype and the new new thing... it's human nature and we all suffer from it... right now I'm the happiest I have been with my vape gear... my DNA75C mods with Dvarw DL's are as close to perfection for me and my Red Pill as it's ever been!

Reactions: Like 3


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## Petrus (15/9/18)

Brilliant review skipper @Rob Fisher. Personally I think some of our "old gear" is getting new life with new/modern "coils - alien ,clapton's, fused clapton's and so the list goes on, and off coarse the newish cotton that is available" . But craftsmanship also play a role in atty's as you have mentioned. What triggers me is the designs of the newer "single coil atty's" so much flavour and vapour and that from a single coil, but then again, now it is a Clapton coil not just plain 26 ga Ni80 wire.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Silver (15/9/18)

I agree with you @Rob Fisher
Fantastic post above and great to see you trying one of the older atties against the new!

Well take a look what's in my hand this morning...







Yep you right, they all came off the Ark or were in the bullrushes.... Lol, that's so funny.

But man, they perform when you know how to set them up right and you know what juice works well in them.

From left to right

*Reo/RM2* - tobacco MTL king for me - 50/50 - 18mg - Blackbird menthol blend - never tire of this
The *mighty Evod *- with 18mg Vapour Mountain Berry Blaze (50/50) nuked with extra menthol, this little guy is a champion MTL device and out and abouter. Never gives up. And the vape is so good and stealthy.
The *Lemo1 *- still my go to for restricted lung vaping while on the computer. It's my VM Strawberry menthol blend in there. About 12mg - also 50/50. Still gives me the sharpest flavour with razor blade menthol burn like no other. Sig100 gives the perfect fire button and battery life for ages. Tank capacity of about 4.5ml and lowish power of about 12W means I can vape on this for about 2 days before needing to pitstop.

Bullrushes and the Ark - yes maybe - they are all several years old.
But they work like a dream and work well for me with juices I love. I dabble with several other devices from time to time (and some are in my rotation like the Skyline and Billet Box) but these oldies are etched into my vape rotation and I doubt they will be displaced any time soon...

Reactions: Like 5 | Winner 5


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## Daniel (15/9/18)

Great write up uncle you really nailed it... So when can I expect my other Dvarw?  

JK so true we all get so caught up in the latest and greatest this and that that we forget how good our existing gear is. But I'm also at a good place MTL the Galaxies RDTA, RTA the Dvarw and dripping is making a comeback for me on the OG DR24 for juice tasting....

Reactions: Like 3


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## RichJB (15/9/18)

In terms of vape quality, I think we're into the zone of diminishing returns now. Designs have reached maturity and I'm not sure we'll get much more from flavour or cloud production. That isn't unusual in any technical field. What advances have there been in automotive technology recently? We have cars that still use the internal combustion, transmission, braking and other systems that were in use fifty years ago.

Rather than trying to squeeze more flavour or vapour from atties, I think vaping development should focus now on the wider problems. I am not concerned about a lack of flavour or clouds from my devices. But I would like:

* better battery life and less recharging
* coils and wicks that last longer without becoming gunked up
* a juice base that doesn't leave the brown dust residue that VG does
* nicotine that is more consistent and dependable

Any of those developments would be more useful to me than a Morten airflow design that theoretically produces 1.874% more flavour from juice.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 8


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## Silver (15/9/18)

Well said @RichJB 

We went through the phase of more vapour. Remember when there was the 4 coil commercial coil atties. Then the 8 coil, i think even a 12 coil (i stand under correction)

But for me more vapour doesnt necessarily mean better flavour. Actually most times i find the bigger vapour devices can produce less rich flavour because its too diluted. For me its about getting the right balance between air and vapour - ie density. Some atties just work so well for me but others are not to my liking.

Glad to see more focus nowadays on "less intense" devices and lower power. Single coil makes sense too. Reduces the amount of maintenance.

I would also like to see longer lasting batteries and coils/wicks. Anything to reduce the "pitstop payload".

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Raindance (15/9/18)

Added to the advances in technology becoming incrementally smaller, we as vapers also go through a ‘development’ cycle. 

We start of buying a device not really knowing what to expect. Then as we learn to know our preferences and what works for us we upgrade based on the need to improve our vaping experience.

During the above process we become exposed to a lot of new knowledge and become aware of the vast variety of gear out there. So by the time manage to get a decent setup, we are primed to start looking for the perfect setup.

What follows is a rapid decent down the rabbit hole which explains the collection of retired gear most of us have stashed away somewhere. This gear is not bad or been replaced by anything hugely better, it just failed to satisfy our expectation of being so.

Then at some point we realise the futality of our search. Settle on equipment that meets our reasonable expectations and rather focus on fine tuning the devices we have.

I have noticed that those that have settled down usually did so not with the latest and greatest last gear they purchased but rather revert to devices that were proven reliable and easy to use and maintain.

I know there is better stuff out there than what ive been using for the past one to two years. But i know what i have works for me, i have spent time finding out how to get the best performance from it and see no reason to go through that learning curve again just to find that although i managed to get a small improvement, my level of contentment has not really changed at all.

Regards

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## Silver (15/9/18)

Epically explained @Raindance 

Agree with you 100%

I also sometimes cringe at the thought of going through a whole new learning curve with a new device and sometimes i avoid getting something because i dont want that trial and error stage and am happy to settle for something i have that i have tweaked to work well for me. 

That said, there comes a time every now and then when i itch for something new. Not so muvh because i am unhappy and want a much better vape but because i feel the need to try something different.

Reactions: Like 1 | Can relate 1


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## Andre (15/9/18)

I discovered Reos and squonking one month into my vaping life. More than five years later I am still a squonker. Reos with OL16s and ceramic wicking to this day. Later on some regulated squonkers too for better battery life. First the VT Inbox with OL16s. Lately, for its bigger battery, the Pulse80W. Very recently, for making squonking even easier and better, the Vapefly Galaxies MTL BF RDTAs on top of the Pulse80Ws. Same on top of my VA Spade 75C. 

Thus, squonking works for me and I love to try and implement incremental advances to this basic. For out and about and stealth some BBs and Joyetech AIO Ecos. And dabbling with other gear like the Dvarw.

Vaping is still fun!

Reactions: Like 5 | Winner 1


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## Christos (15/9/18)

Silver said:


> I agree with you @Rob Fisher
> Fantastic post above and great to see you trying one of the older atties against the new!
> 
> Well take a look what's in my hand this morning...
> ...


Nice Razer mouse pad @Silver. Now you need the full Razer setup

Reactions: Like 3


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## Silver (15/9/18)

Christos said:


> Nice Razer mouse pad @Silver. Now you need the full Razer setup



I have a major overhaul quite long overdue so we may need to talk at some point...

Reactions: Like 1


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