# Newbie Juice-meister



## 360twin

I received my 'standard kit' for making my own juice from Vapour Mountain today, and thought that other newbies might like to see what it comprises. Everything came wrapped in bubble-wrap in a strong cardboard box, needless to say all in one piece.

The juice flavours are in dark glass bottles with dropper tops labelled with the 'VM' logo, which creates the impression of quality. The two syringe sizes appear very useful, as do the 5ml, 10ml and 30ml soft plastic bottles (which are much easier to use than the hard plastic bottles I received from another supplier). The VG/nic has the manufacturer's label, while the PG also has the 'VM' logo.

At R400 the price of the kit is very reasonable, particularly since the cost of the individual components totals R475 (which is still cheap). Now I have to find the time to make some e-juice, and the patience to let it steep!

Disclaimer: I am not in any way associated with Vapour Mountain, nor related to any person involved in their business. I do feel that other newbies might benefit from this, and since their website is still 'under construction' (dig @Oupa ), might like to see what you get for your hard-earned cash.

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## Silver

Great post @360twin 
I have also received a standard mixing kit from Vapour Mountain and can vouch for what you have said.

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## Andre

360twin said:


> I received my 'standard kit' for making my own juice from Vapour Mountain today, and thought that other newbies might like to see what it comprises. Everything came wrapped in bubble-wrap in a strong cardboard box, needless to say all in one piece.
> 
> The juice flavours are in dark glass bottles with dropper tops labelled with the 'VM' logo, which creates the impression of quality. The two syringe sizes appear very useful, as do the 5ml, 10ml and 30ml soft plastic bottles (which are much easier to use than the hard plastic bottles I received from another supplier). The VG/nic has the manufacturer's label, while the PG also has the 'VM' logo.
> 
> At R400 the price of the kit is very reasonable, particularly since the cost of the individual components totals R475 (which is still cheap). Now I have to find the time to make some e-juice, and the patience to let it steep!
> 
> Disclaimer: I am not in any way associated with Vapour Mountain, nor related to any person involved in their business. I do feel that other newbies might benefit from this, and since their website is still 'under construction' (dig @Oupa ), might like to see what you get for your hard-earned cash.


Enjoy the lab work!


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## 360twin

Geez, does this stuff smell awesome (I nearly ate the Caramel bottle!) Very useful having 5ml bottles as well - I mixed some Litchi in one as I haven't tasted this yet, and am a bit reluctant to waste any on something that may not appeal.

Bit of a draw-back to doing this in the kitchen when the wife was cooking, my 'kids' (they're 24 & 25) kept asking what was for dessert

Reactions: Funny 4


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## Riaz

nice post @360twin 

keep us posted with your journey.


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## 360twin

@Riaz Sure will! Some advice needed though - from what I've learned, steeping for 3 days with a good shake every day should be sufficient, or not? I know steeping for longer would improve matters, but this would be sufficient to give me an indication of whether I'm on the right track, wouldn't it?

I always used to consider myself as being patient ...

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## BhavZ

3 to 5 days is considered the min for steeping and tasting.

As you said longer the steep the better.. Personally I would say test it fresh, then steep it for 3 days and test it then steep it for 7 days and test it then steep it for 15 days then test it.

That way you can get an experience of how effective the steeping is for your particular juice.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## 360twin

@BhavZ Cool, thank you very much. One problem, by day 15 there would be nothing left (Hell, I'll be lucky to make day 7!)

I'll definitely try to keep some for that long, if only just to test. Anything learned now will only help in future.


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## BhavZ

360twin said:


> @BhavZ Cool, thank you very much. One problem, by day 15 there would be nothing left (Hell, I'll be lucky to make day 7!)
> 
> I'll definitely try to keep some for that long, if only just to test. Anything learned now will only help in future.



Sweet man, please give us a full review at each test interval.


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## Gazzacpt

Also make lots of notes. Eg: after day 5 caramel was not potent enough added 1% more. Or flavour to strong mixed down to 3% or if you left it in a warm bath first and left it for few hrs before bottling. There is nothing worse than getting that perfect taste and not remembering how you got to it. 
If you use sweetner to smooth out some rough juice start with 1 drop per 5-10ml the stuff is potent.

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## 360twin

@Gazzacpt Thank you for reminding me. I made that mistake when blending some ready-made to get a RY4 that I liked - at least that was easier to do again.


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## Riaz

my mixes will be simple- menthol only

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## Rob Fisher

Riaz said:


> my mixes will be simple- menthol only



I'm so with you @Riaz! And the best on the planet is VM Menthol Ice by a country mile! Not sure what @Oupa does to it but it's as close to perfection as is possible!

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## BhavZ

Rob Fisher said:


> I'm so with you @Riaz! And the best on the planet is VM Menthol Ice by a country mile! Not sure what @Oupa does to it but it's as close to perfection as is possible!



I seriously think that @Oupa has a special ingredient for his juices, and that secret ingredient is love and passion for what he does.

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## Rob Fisher

BhavZ said:


> I seriously think that @Oupa has a special ingredient for his juices, and that secret ingredient is love and passion for what he does.



It definitely is something because everyone of the juices I have tried of his and I have tried all he has in stock are still in the Vaping box while most other juices I try are in the "Take to the Durbs Vape Meet and swop box"... the other Juices that are still in the Vape box are most of the TopQ juices and a couple of the Synfonya juices.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## 360twin

Well, I got to try my first batch this weekend, and I wasn't dissapointed. I originally used a 60/40 PG/VG blend, but found that it started affecting my throat - almost the return of a 'smoker's cough' after a while. After some experimenting I settled on a 65/35 ratio using one flavour to test. All flavours were mixed at 10%.

Caramel: this smelled the nicest to start with, but is a bit over-powering on its own. I bought this with the intention of using it to mix with other flavours, but have found it too strong. Next time I think I'll use 5% flavour.
Litchi: surprisingly, this tasted just like it says; a little sweet maybe, but just like the fruit with no unpleasant after-taste. I used this juice for judging the PG/VG ratio as I noticed the biggest change with it. When I re-mixed this to a 70/30 ratio the throat-hit was noticeably stronger, which I didn't like. At 75/35 it was great, so I adjusted the others to this too. Flavour was a bit strong (for 3 days), so maybe 7% next time.
Menthol: I can vape menthol on its own, but usually like to mix it (especially with juice I don't like). This has a very fresh & cold mint taste - reminds me of XXX Mints as it has the same effect (the wife got brain-freeze), even a glass of tap water seems refridgerated afterwards. No real taste on exhale, but I'm sure it will mix well with anything.
Berry: my current favourite is Liqua Berry, but this is easily as good. It is smoother than the Liqua, but is 65/35 instead of 70/30, and 7% nic compared to 9%. I vaped a tank of each at the same time, and the taste was equally pleasant. The VM has perhaps a hint of mint in it - slight feeling of 'freshness' afterwards.
If the flavours are going to get much stronger with steeping, 10% seems too strong, particularly with the Caramel. Having bought more than a few branded juices that taste like ass, these were a very pleasant surprise. I'm vaping a Litchi/Menthol (~2:1) mix right now, and it's great - icy going in, and real fruit taste on exhale. I mixed the remaining flavours on Saturday, so around mid-week I'll find out about the rest.

One thing I did do was measure the volume discharge from the juice bottles' drippers; I find it a bit difficult to use a syringe for small volumes, and thought this would be useful to know. Dripping into another 1ml graduated dripper I measured 36 drops/ml, and now use this when mixing the flavour (this would be for PG only, VG/water/urine may have different totals).

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## Gazzacpt

360twin said:


> Well, I got to try my first batch this weekend, and I wasn't dissapointed. I originally used a 60/40 PG/VG blend, but found that it started affecting my throat - almost the return of a 'smoker's cough' after a while. After some experimenting I settled on a 65/35 ratio using one flavour to test. All flavours were mixed at 10%.
> 
> Caramel: this smelled the nicest to start with, but is a bit over-powering on its own. I bought this with the intention of using it to mix with other flavours, but have found it too strong. Next time I think I'll use 5% flavour.
> Litchi: surprisingly, this tasted just like it says; a little sweet maybe, but just like the fruit with no unpleasant after-taste. I used this juice for judging the PG/VG ratio as I noticed the biggest change with it. When I re-mixed this to a 70/30 ratio the throat-hit was noticeably stronger, which I didn't like. At 75/35 it was great, so I adjusted the others to this too. Flavour was a bit strong (for 3 days), so maybe 7% next time.
> Menthol: I can vape menthol on its own, but usually like to mix it (especially with juice I don't like). This has a very fresh & cold mint taste - reminds me of XXX Mints as it has the same effect (the wife got brain-freeze), even a glass of tap water seems refridgerated afterwards. No real taste on exhale, but I'm sure it will mix well with anything.
> Berry: my current favourite is Liqua Berry, but this is easily as good. It is smoother than the Liqua, but is 65/35 instead of 70/30, and 7% nic compared to 9%. I vaped a tank of each at the same time, and the taste was equally pleasant. The VM has perhaps a hint of mint in it - slight feeling of 'freshness' afterwards.
> If the flavours are going to get much stronger with steeping, 10% seems too strong, particularly with the Caramel. Having bought more than a few branded juices that taste like ass, these were a very pleasant surprise. I'm vaping a Litchi/Menthol (~2:1) mix right now, and it's great - icy going in, and real fruit taste on exhale. I mixed the remaining flavours on Saturday, so around mid-week I'll find out about the rest.
> 
> One thing I did do was measure the volume discharge from the juice bottles' drippers; I find it a bit difficult to use a syringe for small volumes, and thought this would be useful to know. Dripping into another 1ml graduated dripper I measured 36 drops/ml, and now use this when mixing the flavour (this would be for PG only, VG/water/urine may have different totals).



Hi nice to see someone experimenting. With VM caramel concentrate I go in at 2-4% its potent. Same with cream. Berry you can do 10% banana 5% menthol 1% or less normally I do 1 drop of menthol per ml. Since you using a higher percentage pg ratio you need a bit less concentrate. Vg mutes flavour but pg carries flavour really well. Something to remember if you change pg vg ratios

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## 360twin

@Gazzacpt Thanks. Yes, that Caramel is really potent - 3 drops of the juice in a tank (EVOD) with Menthol to try and it tasted like Caramel with a bit of Menthol in it. The Menthol at 10% is very strong, but also very nice - I've added a few drops of Vanilla to the next batch to try and emulate the Green Smoke flavour my wife likes so much.

I noticed that the Litchi flavour was stronger after adding more PG to change the ratio without adding any more flavour. I'm sure the Caramel will be a whole lot better at a lower concentration - the flavour is good, just too strong.

I'm alternating the Berry with the Liqua I have, as I only made 10ml to try, and it's very good. There's another 30ml on the way though


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## ET

VM caramel flavouring is in a class of its own. I go and visit my mom once or twice a month and usually point my ecig at our dog so she can get a sniff. VM caramel is the only one she ever wanted to get close to, close enough to lick the ecig so it has the doggy seal of approval

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## Gazzacpt

denizenx said:


> VM caramel flavouring is in a class of its own. I go and visit my mom once or twice a month and usually point my ecig at our dog so she can get a sniff. VM caramel is the only one she ever wanted to get close to, close enough to lick the ecig so it has the doggy seal of approval


Do yourself a favor and mix up 2% caramel 2% cream and a drop of sweetner.

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## Silver

Sorry Gazza, what do you mean by "sweetner" ?


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## Gazzacpt

Silver said:


> Sorry Gazza, what do you mean by "sweetner" ?


Something like ethyl maltol (is that spelt right.) Adds a bit of sweetness and helps smooth out flavors. 

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## BhavZ

Yeah the candy floss flavour is essentially that and does wonders for flavours your find a bit bitey.. Definitely does smooth it out quite nicely but use only a few drops at a time, too much and it tastes as though you are vaping an alcohol of sorts.

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## Gazzacpt

BhavZ said:


> Yeah the candy floss flavour is essentially that and does wonders for flavours your find a bit bitey.. Definitely does smooth it out quite nicely but use only a few drops at a time, too much and it tastes as though you are vaping an alcohol of sorts.


Ja depending on what I'm mixing one drop to 5 ml is usually enough. The sweetner I got from Valley vapour is not as hectic I can go up to 1% without a funky taste. 

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## 360twin

I got to try the Vanilla tonight - decided to let the 5ml Blueberry steep for another day. I also wanted to try this mixed with something else.

Vanilla: very smooth and not too strong, nice taste in and out - made me immediately think of 'butter' (don't know why, I haven't had any real butter in decades). No idea how true the taste is as I haven't a clue what real Vanilla should taste like. Not something I'd vape on its own, but that wasn't the intention.
After trying Drag On and Hangsen RY4 juices and not liking them much (the Drag On has a stronger tobacco, and the Hangsen has a 'back-taste' that I noticed in their other juices), I wanted to make my own. I discovered that Drag On's Tobacco Caramel uses a lighter tobacco taste, and have used this successfully with Vanilla. Mixing some I made at the same time with the VM Vanilla produced a mild RY4 with all flavours equally represented, but complementary too. A tobacco flavour lover would probably disagree, but I find that it goes well with the Berry or Litchi/Menthol mix in my other tank. I also like a Vanilla/Apple mix, but must still try this.

To anyone considering mixing their own, I'd say from my own experience so far that it's pretty easy - measure accurately and keep a record (Excel is the simplest). Vapor Mountain's flavours are really good, and there is no peculiar taste/after-taste/smell/lingering reminder in any of those I've tried to spoil the experience (I'm excluding the Caramel for now, as it needs a lot of dilution before I try it again).

I've only tried mixing my own juice once before using another brand of pre-mixed 'base' and flavours, and did not have much success. I didn't use sufficient flavour initially, but none of them tasted right no matter what I tried. It may have been the base at fault, as I have since used the flavours with VM's components without any problem.

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## 360twin

Final update - tried the last flavour I had, and the others that had steeped a bit. Firstly, the flavour:

Blueberry: this was a bit weird, but I have had this happen previously; I didn't like it at first, was a bit better the second time, and now with about 20% Menthol I go through a tank in less than 2 hours. The flavour was immediately familiar but unidentifiable, maybe some sweet from my childhood? My wife suggested purple 'Sparkles', but I don't recall these. Nice fresh flavour, and mixes really well with Menthol - it's a toss-up as to whether this or Litchi/Menthol goes in my second tank each day.
The other juices did not get noticeably stronger after more time (the oldest being 2 weeks) so I will use the same percentage flavour again. In fact, I have some Blueberry/Menthol from my second batch in my tank at the moment 

To anyone with a passing interest in Menthol - you really should try the VM version. I haven't tried a lot of varieties, but take @Rob Fisher's word for it, it's really good! I like to mix it with other juices, and it goes very well with Litchi and Blueberry. One of my staff (who is an occasional smoker) couldn't put the Litchi/Menthol down after trying it, with exclamations of 'Wow' and 'Mmm' between puffs.

Time to order some more!

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## Rob Fisher

360twin said:


> couldn't put the Litchi/Menthol down after trying it, with exclamations of 'Wow' and 'Mmm' between puffs.



VM Menthol Ice added to a lot of other juices really enhances things... my favorites are Litchi, Coffee, Pineapple and I'm sure plenty of others that I still need to try!

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Wesley

Can someone please link me to Vapour Mountain's Starter Kit, I can't seem to find it on their website?


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## Rob Fisher

http://www.vapourmountain.co.za/product-category/accessories/starter-kits/ for hardware starter kits... there isn't a juice starter kit... you just select 10ml bottles of the flavours you think you may like.


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## Wesley

Hi @Rob Fisher 

On the first page of this thread there is a juice starter kit from VM - can't find on the website? Do they no longer sell them perhaps?


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## Rob Fisher

Ahhhhh... I'm not sure... Let's ask @Oupa?


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## BumbleBee

You will need to ask @Oupa or drop him an email, details should be on the webpage. I don't think he has gotten around to loading kits and concentrates yet.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Andre

Yip, you need to email him for those - info@vapourmountain.co.za


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## Silver

Wesley said:


> Hi @Rob Fisher
> 
> On the first page of this thread there is a juice starter kit from VM - can't find on the website? Do they no longer sell them perhaps?


 
Hi @Wesley 
I'm pretty confident they still sell these
But just to emphasise, these are DIY starter kits for mixing your own juices.
They are not ready made, ready to vape juices...

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Wesley

Hi @Silver 

I know, thinking about starting to create my own - I've been using ready made juices and mixing them but want to try this out and hopefully find that perfect mix...

And also it's something to do to distract me from the stinky cravings!

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## Silver

Ok, all the best

Let us know if you find that perfect mix!

Remember there are also good concentrates to choose from at SkyBlue (@Derick) and ValleyVapour (@drew)

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