# Info needed on DIY mixing



## Shatter (31/8/16)

Hi Everyone

Been searching the forum but could not find what i'm looking for. Did my first ever diy e juice today and made 4 10ml samples with different PG\VG\Nic levels, even one with just VG and VG nic unflavored. Now my question is about steeping, all the samples i made are straight forward single flavors, not being mixed with other. Is it still needed for steeping for a week or more? Or just give it 24hours and shake regularly? Or is it a trial an error process?

Regards


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## Andre (31/8/16)

Depends on the flavours. Straight up fruits can mostly be shake and vape, whilst creams and custards needs some curing. Tobaccos need the longest time. 
Remember to shake the hell out of that VG nic before mixing. Shake concentrates too before mixing.

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## Shatter (31/8/16)

Luckily i read up a lot on this forum about mixing and on youtube  I gave everything a good shake to get it mix again and to avoid hot spots. All the flavors i used is pretty much lemon and the other strawberry. Will leave it for tonight and give it a shake and vape tomorrow. Thanks for the reply!

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## Huffapuff (31/8/16)

Hi @Shatter! Welcome to the wonderful world of DIY 

You'll find that most DIYers (possibly not @Viper_SA as he seems more disciplined than the rest of us!) will cheat and have just a small sample after a bit of a shake - just to check y'know 

But as @Andre mentioned, the different types of concentrates require different step times. 

Have fun!

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## Shatter (31/8/16)

it is very tempting! But i learned my lesson about patience back in the days when i started beer home brewing.. Bottled too soon and ended up cleaning exploded glass amber bottles, full of still fermenting lager, from the corner cabinet in the kitchen.. was not a very pleasant sight or smell for days haha.

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## GregF (31/8/16)

Huffapuff said:


> Hi @Shatter! Welcome to the wonderful world of DIY
> 
> You'll find that most DIYers (possibly not @Viper_SA as he seems more disciplined than the rest of us!) will cheat and have just a small sample after a bit of a shake - just to check y'know
> 
> ...



Thats true @Huffapuff but I believe @Andre is another one that can mix something and bottle it weeks on end without tasting. I don't know how they do it.

@Shatter on your steeping question. It's true what @Andre says, it depends on what you have mixed. From my experience and from what you have said, mixing single concentrates, then I cant see any reason to steep it. Taste it now and admire your new creations. It cant do any harm, and you will get a feeling of what you have made.
If they taste like chemicals or perfume then you have either put too much in or the bottle needs to stand open for a while to breath (depending on concentrate).
Basically steeping allows all the different concentrates in a recipe to blend together and allows the mix to "mature"
If you want to taste it before it has matured then go for it. You might get a few sharp edges or something is too strong, then let it sit for a few days and taste again. Generally it smooths out.
Steeping can make a lot of mixes taste better but I have never had a horrible juice get better after a steep.
If it is k@k then it will still be k@k after a steep.

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## Silver (1/9/16)

Good question @Shatter

Guys, wouldnt it be a good idea to try any DIY juice straight away and then after every few days or so to see when and how it improves?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Huffapuff (1/9/16)

Silver said:


> Good question @Shatter
> 
> Guys, wouldnt it be a good idea to try any DIY juice straight away and then after every few days or so to see when and how it improves?



With standalone flavours or simpler recipes I'll make about 5-10ml and drip a bit every few days to see how it's going. With more complex recipes I'll mix up about 15ml and test over a month or so. 



Shatter said:


> it is very tempting! But i learned my lesson about patience back in the days when i started beer home brewing.. Bottled too soon and ended up cleaning exploded glass amber bottles, full of still fermenting lager, from the corner cabinet in the kitchen.. was not a very pleasant sight or smell for days haha.



Lol! This experience will certainly help you with DIY

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## PsiSan (1/9/16)

And take notes, and I mean on everything. From how its steeped, at what PG/VG ratios, what mode/temp/power you tried it on and your build etc. Nothing more frustrating than wanting to replicate a flavour and you cant remember how you did it. 

Coming back to steeping, generally what I found is creams take a decent steep to reach full potential, while fruits will be a good shake and vape (even if it is abit perfumy), and most nutty flavours mellow down with steeping.

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## PsiSan (1/9/16)

@Silver , most definitely. What I did at the start was, try and make profiles for what you looking at, for example (with a fruit profile): 
1) Is it fresh fruit/artificial
2) If its fresh at what stage in its life time is the flavour / if its artificial what else tastes like it (think yogurt brands)
3) Any other high/medium/or back notes can you taste.

The compare them after a little steeping

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## Silver (1/9/16)

PsiSan said:


> @Silver , most definitely. What I did at the start was, try and make profiles for what you looking at, for example (with a fruit profile):
> 1) Is it fresh fruit/artificial
> 2) If its fresh at what stage in its life time is the flavour / if its artificial what else tastes like it (think yogurt brands)
> 3) Any other high/medium/or back notes can you taste.
> ...



This is why I am scared of DIY
I know myself
I can just imagine the ridiculously complex spreadsheets I will come up with 

After VapeCon I am trying to simplify things and every time I get excited about DIY my wife (bless her) wags her finger at me

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## PsiSan (1/9/16)

Hahaha, I do have some "prizes" on my way to me as we speak, so the wife doesnt complain to much. Or I just say it was from the last order months ago.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Can relate 1


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## Soutie (1/9/16)

Silver said:


> I know myself
> I can just imagine the ridiculously complex spreadsheets I will come up with



Hahahahaha this exactly, you don't even want to see mine, it is ridiculously complex. It goes as far as estimating how much concentrates I have left. I've probably spent more time on it than any sane man should.

@Shatter single flavours are definitely the best way to start. Knowing the flavour profile of the concentrates is invaluable on being able to figure out what goes together. Try out a few simple mixes (there are some really nice ones in the calling all diy'ers thread) and before you know it you will be mixing up a storm.

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## Glytch (1/9/16)

I started DIYing about 6 weeks ago and I was so excited about mixing that I tried some so-called "Shake and vape" recipes. The one recipe I made with a cream I let steep and tested every 5 days.

I must say that I'm starting to think that shake and vape is a myth. Everything I've mixed (even single fruit flavours) improves with steeping. Flavours do amazing things with steeping and patience is the order of the day. I kept simple notes on e-juice lab about how the juices were coming along and I reckon that even fruit flavours taste better after 4 or 5 days steeping.

The simple strawberry and cream recipe I made tasted great after 2 weeks steeping and even better after 4 weeks. The trick is to make enough of one recipe to test it every 5 days and then constantly after 2 weeks. I made 150ml of the strawberry and cream so I was able to vape it daily from 2 to 4 weeks and it improved every day.

Just my R0.02

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## RichJB (1/9/16)

I have a problem finishing juices. I don't vape very much, around 6ml per day. My preference for single coils and low wattages means that even my Avo24 and Limitless Plus run like an old Datsun 1200Y. You just gooi in fifty bucks Super and you're good for the month. Added to that, I have four mods/tanks in rotation. So that's 1.5ml per tank per day average, and a 30ml mix will last me around three weeks.

I can understand why the Smok TFV8 users would want a shake-n-vape. They mix up 30ml first thing and, by lunch, it's kaput. So it's a struggle keeping up and they are tempted to crack out a juice before it's steeped properly. I have the opposite. I have six steeping bottles in the cupboard and they're always full. I could buy more steeping bottles but then the bottleneck of me vaping so slowly will just worsen. I'm determined to avoid that. So instead, I do a sniff test on my juices every couple of days. It's not the same as tasting but it does give an idea of how the juice is developing.

I don't have a fancy labeling system like many DIYers. I just stick some masking tape on the bottle with the juice name. I'm thinking I must now add a second piece of masking tape with "Cellar matured for 15 years" on it. Marketing is important, even if it's only to yourself. If I add a blurb about perfection not being rushed, I'm sure I can convince myself that my juices taste like Special Reserve.

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## PsiSan (1/9/16)

I reuse my bottles (glass), and I have about 6-9 in the steeping process (this excludes my single flavours for notes etc). I do easy 10-15ml on normal work days, and over weekends I can double that. My primary setup is A griffin with dual fused claptons.


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## Silver (1/9/16)

Soutie said:


> Hahahahaha this exactly, you don't even want to see mine, it is ridiculously complex. It goes as far as estimating how much concentrates I have left. I've probably spent more time on it than any sane man should.



Im with you @Soutie - all the way! Know exactly what you mean! Lol


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## Caveman (1/9/16)

Glytch said:


> I started DIYing about 6 weeks ago and I was so excited about mixing that I tried some so-called "Shake and vape" recipes. The one recipe I made with a cream I let steep and tested every 5 days.
> 
> I must say that I'm starting to think that shake and vape is a myth. Everything I've mixed (even single fruit flavours) improves with steeping. Flavours do amazing things with steeping and patience is the order of the day. I kept simple notes on e-juice lab about how the juices were coming along and I reckon that even fruit flavours taste better after 4 or 5 days steeping.
> 
> ...



Shake and vape doesn't mean shake-and-its-as-good-as-it-will-be, just means its decent and fairly good after a good shake. I have never mixed anything that didn't get better with steeping. I have mixed some things that made me almost call in a sick day after shake and vape and turn out very good after a month. Don't take the shake and vape thing too seriously. Its more to say "hey this is pretty good off the bat" and it will get better after that.

Example: One of my ADV's is a fairly modified version of Cutwoods Monster Melons Clone that I have tweaked to my own liking. It's a shake and vape. It's really good immediately, good enough that you could throw it in your tank and be happy. After a few days, it settles and becomes a much smoother taste, after about a week to 2 weeks it reaches its peak where it won't change much after that.

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## PsiSan (1/9/16)

@Caveman took the words right out of my mouth


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## mcgeerj35 (1/9/16)

Silver said:


> This is why I am scared of DIY
> I know myself
> I can just imagine the ridiculously complex spreadsheets I will come up with
> 
> After VapeCon I am trying to simplify things and every time I get excited about DIY my wife (bless her) wags her finger at me


Hehe think i need to tell my girlfriend to do that to me aswell  but its too late my diy stuff will arive today so i will take this journey full of surprises and failures but thing is to keep on trying and never to give up on the flavour you are chasing thats why im so keen on diy 

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## Greyz (1/9/16)

Glytch said:


> I started DIYing about 6 weeks ago and I was so excited about mixing that I tried some so-called "Shake and vape" recipes. The one recipe I made with a cream I let steep and tested every 5 days.
> 
> I must say that I'm starting to think that shake and vape is a myth. Everything I've mixed (even single fruit flavours) improves with steeping. Flavours do amazing things with steeping and patience is the order of the day. I kept simple notes on e-juice lab about how the juices were coming along and I reckon that even fruit flavours taste better after 4 or 5 days steeping.
> 
> ...



Amen!
I been crying foul for every so called Shake n Vape recipe since I started DIY. Every SnV I tried improved vastly after just a week steeping some even better after 2-4 weeks - that invalidates the juice as a SnV IMO.
I found making 10ml testers wasn't working out because I would test/drip my juices every few days and before 2 weeks is up the 10ml is finished. Now testers are all done in 30ml - this way I can drip them every few days and still have enough left after 3 to 4 weeks to enjoy it when it's "ready". 

TL;DR Every juice and I mean EVERY will benefit from a steep - even so called SnV

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## mcgeerj35 (1/9/16)

@Greyz 30ml testers i second that hey good idea 

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## Caveman (1/9/16)

Greyz said:


> Amen!
> I been crying foul for every so called Shake n Vape recipe since I started DIY. Every SnV I tried improved vastly after just a week steeping some even better after 2-4 weeks - that invalidates the juice as a SnV IMO.
> I found making 10ml testers wasn't working out because I would test/drip my juices every few days and before 2 weeks is up the 10ml is finished. Now testers are all done in 30ml - this way I can drip them every few days and still have enough left after 3 to 4 weeks to enjoy it when it's "ready".
> 
> TL;DR Every juice and I mean EVERY will benefit from a steep - even so called SnV


Yup my testers are at least 20ml these days also. Problem is I am an impatient bugger and waiting 3 weeks for a new juice seems to get the better of me. I have been steeping in my slow cooker as of late but the results of that are debatable

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## Greyz (1/9/16)

Caveman said:


> Yup my testers are at least 20ml these days also. Problem is I am an impatient bugger and waiting 3 weeks for a new juice seems to get the better of me. I have been steeping in my slow cooker as of late but the results of that are debatable
> 
> Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk



I had decent results with my USC till it just died on me. Now I have a reptile pad coming from Aliexpress and a magnetic Stirrer kit that's at customs now. I'm also trying my best to reduce the dreaded steeping time. 
I just wish to half the steep time, bring it down from 2 to 3 weeks to 1 week or so. Because here I'd get to test over that week period and find the perfect steep time. 
Some juices are best after 3 weeks but after 6 weeks it might not be as nice. Then these I'd vape within that 3 to 6 week period making sure I get to vape it when it's best.

Best part about vaping is the discovering of juices you like and changing them to your palate. 

It's been about 4 months of good DIY'ing and I'm still hunting for that SnV - the hero juice that will allow me to vape while those that deserve a steep get their peace.

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## Glytch (1/9/16)

Anyone tried steeping in the glove box of a car?

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## RichJB (1/9/16)

@Greyz, best I've had was a Cola (FA) mix which I vaped around 48 hours after mixing and it was good. HIC seems to think it needs no steep at all. I haven't noticed much improvement over a week although I don't know if I'd classify it as a true shake-n-vape. It also won't help if you don't like cola flavours.

Guys, I have a question regarding scales. Am I the only one whose scale doesn't read below 0.3g? I have the standard China mall scale, the one with the power button in the middle and the four buttons around it. If I drop flavour into my mixing bottle, the scale shows nothing until I hit 0.3g. Then it registers and seems to work accurately from there up. 0.3g is exactly 1% of a 30ml mix so I've been OK up to now but I think I'm going to start adding less than 1% now.

I tried Dischem insulin syringes but the needle is too fine, it won't suck up even straight PG. Now I got some 1ml syringes from BLCK which look quite promising. Does anybody have any other method?

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## Soutie (1/9/16)

@RichJB the scale I got from Blckvapour starts registering at about 0.04 and I see they have a better model on their site already.

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## RichJB (1/9/16)

Thanks, so it seems I got a dud scale. I have the R140 one that BLCK are selling, although I didn't get mine from BLCK but from the mall. I think I'll order the R170 from BLCK and keep my current one as a back-up.

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## Soutie (1/9/16)

That's the exact one I have @RichJB, the R140 one but the one for R170 does look look really nice. I'm considering an upgrade myself


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## RichJB (1/9/16)

Yes, I'm rather keen on that R170 one. I reckon that one will make our juices taste better. That is how I am justifying it to myself. When there's a will, there's a way.

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## Glytch (1/9/16)

RichJB said:


> @Greyz, best I've had was a Cola (FA) mix which I vaped around 48 hours after mixing and it was good. HIC seems to think it needs no steep at all. I haven't noticed much improvement over a week although I don't know if I'd classify it as a true shake-n-vape. It also won't help if you don't like cola flavours.
> 
> Guys, I have a question regarding scales. Am I the only one whose scale doesn't read below 0.3g? I have the standard China mall scale, the one with the power button in the middle and the four buttons around it. If I drop flavour into my mixing bottle, the scale shows nothing until I hit 0.3g. Then it registers and seems to work accurately from there up. 0.3g is exactly 1% of a 30ml mix so I've been OK up to now but I think I'm going to start adding less than 1% now.
> 
> I tried Dischem insulin syringes but the needle is too fine, it won't suck up even straight PG. Now I got some 1ml syringes from BLCK which look quite promising. Does anybody have any other method?


Put something on the scale that weighs 1g and then measure your 0.15 or some such from there as 1.15.

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## Greyz (1/9/16)

@RichJB, 48 hours vs 3 weeks that's about as close to SnV as it gets. 
Do you mind sharing the recipe with us?
I have the R170 scale from Blckvapour and it's the best thing I ever bought for my diy. It's accurate and now the only syringe and blunt nose needle I need is for the nic.

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## Caveman (1/9/16)

RichJB said:


> Yes, I'm rather keen on that R170 one. I reckon that one will make our juices taste better. That is how I am justifying it to myself. When there's a will, there's a way.


Well if it will make the juice taste better I reckon it's a good investment 

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## Caveman (1/9/16)

I use pipettes for the nic. Cheap and disposable. His lemon creme cookies also pretty much peak after 48 hours, no real change in taste after that. HICS lemon torrone parfait actually gets worse after about 10 days and at 15 it's unvapeable for me but good after an overnight steep


Greyz said:


> @RichJB, 48 hours vs 3 weeks that's about as close to SnV as it gets.
> Do you mind sharing the recipe with us?
> I have the R170 scale from Blckvapour and it's the best thing I ever bought for my diy. It's accurate and now the only syringe and blunt nose needle I need is for the nic.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk




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## GregF (1/9/16)

Greyz said:


> @RichJB, 48 hours vs 3 weeks that's about as close to SnV as it gets.
> Do you mind sharing the recipe with us?
> I have the R170 scale from Blckvapour and it's the best thing I ever bought for my diy. It's accurate and now the only syringe and blunt nose needle I need is for the nic.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk



yup me too, but I am working on the nic, there has to be something?????


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## Greyz (1/9/16)

@Caveman thanks for the suggestion on the pipettes, I hate needles because I have a 3 year old girl that's very active. 
I'll definitely be looking up those HIC recipes. I just received my concentrates to mix up some HIC Tiramisu yesterday too 

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## GregF (1/9/16)

I was thinking of using a 30ml amber glass bottle with the pipette dropper for the nic but then it is too small. going to have to keep filling it up.
If I switch to pure PG nic (which I am going to do) then I can keep it in the fridge/freezer in a plastic dropper bottle.
At the moment I use 50/50 but have just placed an order for only PG nic and will keep that in the fridge.
I can't wait for VG nic to "defrost" before I use it..... I want to use it NOW when I get that ummmm sudden inspiration or when @Andre posts a tobacco recipe that I need to try.

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## RichJB (1/9/16)

@Greyz, it's the one in HIC's notes: 4% FA Cola, 2% FA Black Cherry.

@Glytch, thanks but the problem is to find something that is exactly 1g. I would then need to tare, add that something to the scale and then drop my flavour in. I also thought of doing it subtractively, putting 1g of flavour into a separate bottle then sucking up .1 or .2g off the 1g. But I think it will be easiest to just get the accurate scale.

@GregF, that 100ml witch's hat bottle from Cly ought to be the thing for your PG nic. I'm ordering one myself for nic.

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## Glytch (1/9/16)

GregF said:


> I was thinking of using a 30ml amber glass bottle with the pipette dropper for the nic but then it is too small. going to have to keep filling it up.
> If I switch to pure PG nic (which I am going to do) then I can keep it in the fridge/freezer in a plastic dropper bottle.
> At the moment I use 50/50 but have just placed an order for only PG nic and will keep that in the fridge.
> I can't wait for VG nic to "defrost" before I use it..... I want to use it NOW when I get that ummmm sudden inspiration or when @Andre posts a tobacco recipe that I need to try.


I ordered those plastic 10ml bottles with the nipples and I decant 100ml Nic into 10 of those. Stops oxidation when bottle is half full and convenient to use and store. Single servings kinda thing.

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## Greyz (1/9/16)

RichJB said:


> @Greyz, it's the one in HIC's notes: 4% FA Cola, 2% FA Black Cherry.
> 
> @Glytch, thanks but the problem is to find something that is exactly 1g. I would then need to tare, add that something to the scale and then drop my flavour in. I also thought of doing it subtractively, putting 1g of flavour into a separate bottle then sucking up .1 or .2g off the 1g. But I think it will be easiest to just get the accurate scale.


Thanks I think I found it 

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## Greyz (1/9/16)

I dunno if this is appropriate to post or if it's been added here before because I can't remember where I got it. But here goes, I take no responsibility for the find, I'm just sharing.



I dunno why but Tapatalk keeps messing up the link  
I'll try fix it on the PC just now.
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## Shatter (4/9/16)

wow a lot of questions i had already answered  Thanx for all the replies! Tested a sample yesterday, must say its not too bad, def will get some more flavors and follow a few recipes. Next up TC box mod and tank, so many choices 

Regards


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