# Advice appreciated on my next big vaping step



## audiophile011 (1/4/15)

Hello all

I'm not generally one to directly ask things on the forum, as I've experienced that lot more can be learned on the path to discovery than the discovery itself.

Anyway, after upgrading from my twisp clearo's to a iStick 20w and nautilus within a week of discovering vaping, and another mAN and MPT3 shorter thereafter, I've found immense enjoyment from the hobby itself as well as the actual vaping (I remember my old man telling me that most of the fun in fishing is before you've even caught the fish, and vaping is in the same boat), as well as the relief it has offered me in kicking the habit of stink that I've been trying to do for years.

The time has come for a slightly overdue move on to rebuild-able atomizers, and after many weeks of research, I'm left with the predicament of what to get next. 

The combo which stands out by a large margin would be the subtank mini running on an istick 50w. It offers the option to run an OCC coil if need be, and also to branch out into the world of coil building. However, I can't seem to push the button on the buy, as initially my intention was to build coils so I could start dripping, not add another tank to my arsenal. 

It boils down to what is going to be noob friendly, and this is where I need advice. Are there any drippers that are going to be suitable for me to start on, and what are the drawbacks if any? Or would it be best to stick with the logical decision and start with the subtank?

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## WHeunis (1/4/15)

Heyo @audiophile011 !

Your iStick50 and Subtank choice seems pretty solid, I have nothing much to add to that. Both very good, and very well priced.

That said, as you are out on a rebuildable shopping session, add one more item to your list: a decent dripper.
As beginner drippers go, a few names pop up: Nuppin, Atomic, Magma, Plumeveil, etc.

Avoid complicated drippers like Veritas and Marquis as your first step into RDA - they are notoriously awesome, yes - but takes a heck of of patience to build. Stick to drippers with the traditional (two or three upright posts in a shallow juicewell) build-deck designs.

Hope you enjoy your new leg of the journey!


EDIT-to-add: I misread a little on your post - what im saying is dont ditch the Subtank. Having both an RTA and RDA is pretty much just a good idea. Sometimes you just wanna lazy-vape the tank, and sometimes you wanna fiddle and drip on the dripper...

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## audiophile011 (1/4/15)

WHeunis said:


> Heyo @audiophile011 !
> 
> Your iStick50 and Subtank choice seems pretty solid, I have nothing much to add to that. Both very good, and very well priced.
> 
> ...



Awesome! Thanks for the response, bud. I've had my eye on the plume veil for a while now, but have always got the impression that it is a more advanced attie, and not really noob friendly. Thanks for the advice


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## Andre (1/4/15)

For me getting the coil and, especially, the wicking right on a RTA was far more complicated and fiddly than building and wicking on a RDA. There are pages and pages in this forum giving tips on building and wicking RTAs. For RDAs you mostly just find pictures of awesome coils.
For sure a RTA is much more convenient than a dripper, but there is general consensus that a dripper gives better flavour.
Of course a bottom fed device, like a Reo, gives you the convenience of a tank with the flavour of a dripper.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## DemonicBunnee (1/4/15)

If you just want to play with a RDA to see how you would enjoy building coils I would suggest grabbing something that's on special at your "local" vape shop.

I agree with @WHeunis simple post designs, but would like to add, make sure it has post holes, they make life a lot easier when you start out with rebuildables.






^Dark Horse (Not recommended as a first RDA if you are used to a nAM, but the type of deck I would recommend)





^Plume Veil (Can't go wrong with this style of deck either)

There is no reason to upgrade the iStick 20w until you sub ohm. Which according to the journey theory (which I follow), you shouldn't be trying just yet. It might be cheaper to build your own coils, but the initial cost of getting all the tools together might blind side you slightly, so getting the right equipment to build, might be better than grabbing a new Mod.

With regard to the Plume Veil, I found it easy to build on, the T-shaped centerpost is a dream for dual coil builds (Not really 20w friendly). Performance is also very impressive. Airflow control is easy to use. The only issue I've had with it is that you need to be (slightly) careful with coil positioning, as the Delrin insert in the top cap can melt.

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## Silver (1/4/15)

Great thread @audiophile011 
I am sure many others are in a similar predicament

I agree with @WHeunis - the Subtank Mini is a great device - and allows for the stock coil and rebuildable. I have only used the stock coils so far on mine - and its very good. Nice flavour and good clouds. But for me it is more aimed at direct lung hitting. Not a good mouth to lung device for me. Way more intense than the Nautilus Mini.

As for drippers, my initial experience was with the humble IGO-L. I agree with @WHeunis on his recommendation to go for something simple. Don't get something that will be too much of a mission to get set up right. I don't have much experience with drippers on their own but I can say that some are aimed more at powerful builds with big airflow and big clouds while others are more aimed at flavour. Not to say the big airflow ones don't produce good flavour, but just that some of them I think only shine at much higher powers.

I think you may end up getting a good RTA, a good dripper and a monstrous cloud machine dripper - over time. So go for it - the journey and learning each device and how to optimise it to your taste is where all the fun is.

By the way, another suggestion is that you should try meet up with other forumites in your area or attend a mini vape meet (e.g. the Midrand Vape Club meet) and you can try out lots of gear and see what type of vape you like. While researching and asking people for their opinions is great, nothing beats trying out the gear for yourself.

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## free3dom (1/4/15)

Drippers vs Tanks....fight! 

RTAs are very convenient and awesome (and the SubTank Mini is my go to device), but since you already have a tank (the Nautilus is still great) an RDA may just be exactly what you need. For a starter RDA, as the others have mentioned, there are great options available. 

The Derringer is a great little RDA - I don't have one but have vaped on quite a few and the flavour is crazy. It's also widely available, cheap, and easy to work with.

But as others have said, pop into any shop (online/B&M), find one you like, then google it and see what people have to say. Best way to go about it since then you know it's available locally

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## Viper_SA (1/4/15)

My first RDA was a Marquis (One week into vaping), It is a bit difficult to build on, but now all the other drippers are sooo easy to build. I recently got a Trident clone, and as far as airflow goes, it is very much like the mAN. The Plume Veil is a pleasure to build on and very easy. The CLT 2 is also an easy build, but a LOT of airflow on that one, lol. Had my first experience of "silvering" on that. I wondered why they call it "silvering", now I guess it's because it is a lot like being sea-sick on silver waves, lol. I get better flavor from the other 3 drippers than the Marquis, but I guess that is still down to the building technique. If you get the Plume Veil, just be sure to double check as some of the clones come without drip tips.

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## WHITELABEL (1/4/15)

audiophile011 said:


> Hello all
> 
> I'm not generally one to directly ask things on the forum, as I've experienced that lot more can be learned on the path to discovery than the discovery itself.
> 
> ...


I think we meeting tonight at hooters for a couple dops and vapes. Come check out everyone's gear and play around with some drippers. Just need to confirm with @shaunnadan and @BigAnt


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## free3dom (1/4/15)

Viper_SA said:


> I wondered why they call it "silvering", now I guess it's because it is a lot like being sea-sick on silver waves, lol.



Actually, the reason behind the phrase "silvering" can be found here:

http://www.ecigssa.co.za/threads/doing-a-silver-what-does-this-mean.4335/

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## shaunnadan (1/4/15)

Gambit said:


> I think we meeting tonight at hooters for a couple dops and vapes. Come check out everyone's gear and play around with some drippers. Just need to confirm with @shaunnadan and @BigAnt




confirmed for tonight !

http://ecigssa.co.za/fourways-meet-hooters-tonight.t10282/

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## audiophile011 (1/4/15)

Gambit said:


> I think we meeting tonight at hooters for a couple dops and vapes. Come check out everyone's gear and play around with some drippers. Just need to confirm with @shaunnadan and @BigAnt





shaunnadan said:


> confirmed for tonight !
> 
> http://ecigssa.co.za/fourways-meet-hooters-tonight.t10282/



Thanks taking the time to reply, guys! I really appreciate it. I'm running around at the moment, so I'll reply thoughtfully once I've landed a bit later. 

Just wanted to post in the meantime, and say thanks very much for the invite @shaunnadan @Gambit 

I really wish I could come through and meet everyone, but with an exam coming up and the only time to study being in the evenings, I'm short on time to say the least. I promise I'll be at the next one, though!

Cheers,
Sean


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## Andre (1/4/15)

free3dom said:


> The Derringer is a great little RDA - I don't have one but have vaped on quite a few and the flavour is crazy. It's also widely available, cheap, and easy to work with.


+ 1 on the Derringer should you decide to go that route. Think it is a great starter dripper, can do single and dual coils and good adjustable airflow with excellent flavour.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## vaalboy (1/4/15)

If you got the budget I would simply suggest to go with Reo. The RM2 is an extremely noob friendy atty to hone your coil building skills and then as an added bonus you have the trouble free vaping ease of the Reo itself.

I went straight from tanks to a Reo and looking back, it was the best decision I made on my vaping journey.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


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## Rob Fisher (1/4/15)

Agree on the REO issue obviously... but if you need to try a dripper then I would suggest the Derringer... best dripper I have found in a long time! Simple and easy to use and great flavour!

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## audiophile011 (11/4/15)

Hey guys!

Thanks again for all the replies, they really are appreciated! 

I went through to VK on Friday, with the intention of nothing other than some coils for my mAN and bigger brother. Ended up with the original Subtank (the enormous one with the chimney that has to be swapped), and some kanthal and cotton to start experimenting with. 

I am extremely impressed with the tank so-far, and with the RBA base, the capacity is a little less insane than the 7ml+ monster OCC capacity. 

Thankfully I have spent many years working on bikes, cars and various electronics, so I've built up quite a collection of tools and sundry, so my first attempt at my own coil came out reasonably well. I'm currently running the subtank on a 20w iStick, so it looks quite ridiculous, but even with my novice coil-building skills, produces enough clouds to upset my wife. Unfortunately I'm limited to super-ohm coils until I can upgrade my little shocker, but that will come in time. 

One question I have is that when firing for the first time after sitting, I get a bit of minor explosion. I thought it may be residual water from cleaning that has leaked into the joose, but it only happens when the coil just starts heating. I've tried changing the gap between coils, but no luck.

Of course, PICS

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## Silver (11/4/15)

Hi @audiophile011 
Super pics!
Not really sure why the explosions happen
I also sometimes get popping on the first firing after a while
I think it may have something to do with the tightness or looseness of the wick
I wouldnt worry too much as long as the vape itself is good
All the best with the subtank - must look like a grizzly bear on a scooter with the istick. Lol
Doesnt matter if it works!

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## Viper_SA (11/4/15)

If it's the noise I think it is, all my attys do that. Much like chucking a steak into a hot pan with some oilve oil. I think it's just the initial liquid (excess) that is heated up at an accelarated rate until equilibrium is reached between wicking/vaporizing

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## Silver (11/4/15)

Viper_SA said:


> If it's the noise I think it is, all my attys do that. Much like chucking a steak into a hot pan with some oilve oil. I think it's just the initial liquid (excess) that is heated up at an accelarated rate until equilibrium is reached between wicking/vaporizing



You changed your avatar @Viper_SA 
It confused me, lol
I preferred your old one!

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Daniel (11/4/15)

From a fellow noob vaper , I can advise to skip all the tanks and whatnot and get a Reo , or if budget does not allow a KUI ....


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## BumbleBee (11/4/15)

audiophile011 said:


> Hey guys!
> 
> Thanks again for all the replies, they really are appreciated!
> 
> ...


The "Popping" is par for the course with spaced coils, less noticeable with compressed (no gaps between the wraps) coils. Spaced coils do deliver better flavour though. Play with the spacing of your wraps and find your happy place 

If you find that you get a bit of leaking through the air channel try raising the coil off the deck a bit, it looks a bit low but it could just be the angle of the photo.

...and congrats on stepping into rebuildable territory, stock coils just don't seem to cut it after this 

Enjoy

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## audiophile011 (14/4/15)

Thanks again for all the responses, guys!!! The popping I described was not the usual attie crackle that I'm used to - more of a once-off explosion ( I could feel the release of pressure hit my mouth). Anyway, the issue has been resolved by playing with the height and wrap-distance. I suspect the coil may have even been arcing off the top RBA dome cap.

Unfortunately I've encountered another issue with my circus-bear setup - the 510 on the istick 20w and subtank don't play well together. The subtank had pushed the center-pin right back into the rubber seal, which I thankfully managed to fix to the point where my mAN now detects again , at least. Can't say the same for the subtank , though - "attie short" error on the istick even after several modifying attempts. Sigh. ... so its the 30w istick for me next, with its spring-loaded connector.


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## free3dom (14/4/15)

audiophile011 said:


> Thanks again for all the responses, guys!!! The popping I described was not the usual attie crackle that I'm used to - more of a once-off explosion ( I could feel the release of pressure hit my mouth). Anyway, the issue has been resolved by playing with the height and wrap-distance. I suspect the coil may have even been arcing off the top RBA dome cap.
> 
> Unfortunately I've encountered another issue with my circus-bear setup - the 510 on the istick 20w and subtank don't play well together. The subtank had pushed the center-pin right back into the rubber seal, which I thankfully managed to fix to the point where my mAN now detects again , at least. Can't say the same for the subtank , though - "attie short" error on the istick even after several modifying attempts. Sigh. ... so its the 30w istick for me next, with its spring-loaded connector.



That is indeed a major problem with the iStick 20W. There is a way to fix it though...prop up the pin with a sharp object, then take a fat-ish o-ring that is just smaller than the top of the pin and work it over the pin so that it sits below the pin. Use multiple o-rings if they are not fat enough 

But in the end the iStick 30W is definitely the way to go - the 20W did have that one flaw which they thankfully fixed

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## audiophile011 (22/4/15)

WOOOT. The family has grown! Loving the 30w so far - it really is a perfect little device.

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## free3dom (22/4/15)

audiophile011 said:


> WOOOT. The family has grown! Loving the 30w so far - it really is a perfect little device.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Three's company - looking good

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