# Batteries Update



## Rob Fisher

Having had my green VTC4 and VT5 batteries for a while now I thought I would do some non-technical feedback... I don't know if it's my imagination or a perception but I prefer my Purple eFest IMR 2500mAh and 3100mAh to the VTC's... they seem to last longer and charge quicker... I also prefer the button top batteries (I guess because they work better in the older REO's).

Also my Fake red AW's have performed marvellously!

I was expecting big things from the Sony VTC's and have to say I have been disappointed. I would be really interested to hear from the technical boffins on this issue.

Reactions: Like 3


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## johan

Rob Fisher said:


> Having had my green VTC4 and VT5 batteries for a while now I thought I would do some non-technical feedback... I don't know if it's my imagination or a perception but I prefer my Purple eFest IMR 2500mAh and 3100mAh to the VTC's... they seem to last longer and charge quicker... I also prefer the button top batteries (I guess because they work better in the older REO's).
> 
> Also my Fake red AW's have performed marvellously!
> 
> I was expecting big things from the Sony VTC's and have to say I have been disappointed. I would be really interested to hear from the technical boffins on this issue.


 
The VTC's only excel at serious sub-ohm coils as their discharge amp rates are many times higher than the other batteries. For useable vape duration at standard ohm resistances, the 3100mAh batteries will give longer vape time.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## Rob Fisher

johan said:


> The VTC's only excel at serious sub-ohm coils as their discharge amp rates are many times higher than the other batteries. For useable vape duration at standard ohm resistances, the 3100mAh batteries will give longer vape time.


 
Awesome! Thanks Ω @johan! So it wasn't my imagination! Phew! Purple eFests are for me then! Thank you!

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Gizmo

In all fairness that's untrue. The discharge rates are around the same. I just think there are just more fake VTCs around as they are branded so badly

Sent from my SM-G900H using Tapatalk

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## johan

If we talk authentic, and you submit the batteries to the same load, ie. 1.2Ω, then you will need to recharge the VTC's far more often than the 3100mAh Efest's. If you submit them to the same aub-ohm load, ie 0.12Ω, then the VTC's will be able to handle the required current (35A), without compromise. I don't think the Efest's will last that long before you have to chuck them away, but that's just my opinion.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 3


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## Gazzacpt

Gizmo said:


> In all fairness that's untrue. The discharge rates are around the same. I just think there are just more fake VTCs around as they are branded so badly
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900H using Tapatalk


look I have been doing lots of google-fu and watching lots vids. Almost every serious sub ohmer and modder recommends Sony VTC 4/5 because they hold up better than anything else. Also there are some graphs showing discharge under load and Sony kicks efests butt. Rip did a build at 0.09ohms and used a VTC5 to fire it. So for me anything on the darkside of 0.4 I use Sony.

Reactions: Agree 7


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## Andre

I totally agree, the VTCs are far better for heavy duty. As I have posted numerous times on this forum, the continuous discharge rate on the purple Efest 18650 2500 mAh 35 A is actually 20A - the claimed 35A is the surge or spiking discharge rate.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 6


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## Silver

@Andre, thanks for reminding that the purple Efest 35A is actually a 20A continuous.

But what about the purple Efest 3100mah 20A?

Take a look at this thread on ECF.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...87759-purple-efest-18650-battery-warning.html
Quite disturbing to say the least.

What they're basically saying is that this batt has nowhere near the 20A limit.

Not sure how much of this is true - one never really knows.

I have this 3100 mah battery
It works well for me in my REO at 1.2 ohms and gives great life and good power....

But it would be nice if all these battery manufacturers would stick to a common set of standards for marketing the specs...

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Gizmo

Still incorrect. Please look at this older generation efest purple series is a rebranded vtc4 http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...508124-new-efest-18650-2500mah-35-amp-10.html

Sent from my SM-G900H using Tapatalk

Reactions: Informative 2


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## Gazzacpt

Gizmo said:


> Still incorrect. Please look at this older generation efest purple series is a rebranded vtc4 http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...508124-new-efest-18650-2500mah-35-amp-10.html
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900H using Tapatalk


The 2100mah are VTC4's, the 2500mah are LG cells rated at 20A continuous discharge and the 3100mah are panasonic cells rated at 6.6A continuous. All this info I got from the link you posted above. So the ones to get are the 2100mah. Or just get VTC5's. Efest looks like they going backwards.

Reactions: Like 1 | Thanks 1 | Informative 1


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## Andre

Gizmo said:


> Still incorrect. Please look at this older generation efest purple series is a rebranded vtc4 http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...508124-new-efest-18650-2500mah-35-amp-10.html
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900H using Tapatalk


If you read the page you linked, you will find:

The purple Efest 2100 is a rewrapped VTC4 - good news as it really have a continuous discharge rating of 30A as stated on the Efest, but low mAH.
The purple Efest 25oo is a rewrapped LG 18650HE2 - bad news as the continuous discharge rating of this is but 20A and not the 35A as stated on the Efest battery. That 35A refers to surge discharge rating and is misleading imo.
The page that @Silver above links, says:

The purple Efest 3100 is a rewrapped Panasonic NCR18650BE - *extremely bad news* as this battery has a continuous discharge rating of only *4A*.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Informative 1


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## Andre

Gazzacpt said:


> The 2100mah are VTC4's, the 2500mah are LG cells rated at 20A continuous discharge and the 3100mah are panasonic cells rated at 6.6A continuous. All this info I got from the link you posted above. So the ones to get are the 2100mah. Or just get VTC5's. Efest looks like they going backwards.


The 6.4A is the surge rating, the continuous rating is only 4A.


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## Silver

Andre said:


> If you read the page you linked, you will find:
> 
> The purple Efest 2100 is a rewrapped VTC4 - good news as it really have a continuous discharge rating of 30A as stated on the Efest, but low mAH.
> The purple Efest 25oo is a rewrapped LG 18650HE2 - bad news as the continuous discharge rating of this is but 20A and not the 35A as stated on the Efest battery. That 35A refers to surge discharge rating and is misleading imo.
> The page that @Silver above links, says:
> 
> The purple Efest 3100 is a rewrapped Panasonic NCR18650BE - *extremely bad news* as this battery has a continuous discharge rating of only *4A*.




Thanks for the summary @Andre.
Super.
The more knowledge we have the better.

So let us assume that the 3100 mah batt has an amp limit of only 4A,
then the minimum ohms is in the region of 1 ohm. And if you want to build in a safety margin, youd need higher ohms than that.
What this means is that the batt should prob not be used in mechs and more for regulated devices.

I have this batt and only use it in my 1.2 ohm Reo. Works very well. Definitely has more battery life than my other 18650s. So I am happy from a usability point of view.

But i do think we need to keep an eye out for this to find out more about this popular battery.
@Gizmo, perhaps you can check with Efest what they say about it? Particularly the continuous amp limit.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gazzacpt

Andre said:


> The 6.4A is the surge rating, the continuous rating is only 4A.


Thanks Oom @Andre even worse.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## MurderDoll

Andre said:


> If you read the page you linked, you will find:
> 
> The purple Efest 2100 is a rewrapped VTC4 - good news as it really have a continuous discharge rating of 30A as stated on the Efest, but low mAH.
> The purple Efest 25oo is a rewrapped LG 18650HE2 - bad news as the continuous discharge rating of this is but 20A and not the 35A as stated on the Efest battery. That 35A refers to surge discharge rating and is misleading imo.
> The page that @Silver above links, says:
> 
> The purple Efest 3100 is a rewrapped Panasonic NCR18650BE - *extremely bad news* as this battery has a continuous discharge rating of only *4A*.





Silver said:


> Thanks for the summary @Andre.
> Super.
> The more knowledge we have the better.
> 
> So let us assume that the 3100 mah batt has an amp limit of only 4A,
> then the minimum ohms is in the region of 1 ohm. And if you want to build in a safety margin, youd need higher ohms than that.
> What this means is that the batt should prob not be used in mechs and more for regulated devices.
> 
> I have this batt and only use it in my 1.2 ohm Reo. Works very well. Definitely has more battery life than my other 18650s. So I am happy from a usability point of view.
> 
> But i do think we need to keep an eye out for this to find out more about this popular battery.
> @Gizmo, perhaps you can check with Efest what they say about it? Particularly the continuous amp limit.




Reading all this, I'm glad I just went and bought the vtc4 instead of going for the efest batteries.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Nooby

This is really unexpected news about the Efests... Something I would of liked to of known before hand. Thanks for the info guys.


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## Andre

Nooby said:


> This is really unexpected news about the Efests... Something I would of liked to of known before hand. Thanks for the info guys.


Totally agree, a lot of Efest 3100s and a heap of wasted money from my side.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Yiannaki

eish. guess i should be ripping out my .9 ohm coil


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## Necris

wow,suppose that answers my efest vs vtc5 question...
talk about murphy's law,the efest 2500 35a and 3100 20a are all i have


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## NickT

I'm faaaaaar to silly to understand all the code you guys are writing. So I have a simple question....

I'm about to buy a 26650 mod. Is the Efest "64amp" going to blow up in my face?


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## Metal Liz

Has anyone checked on here if our batteries are the same as the example? I don't know, maybe it's worth a look see....?


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## M4dm0nk3y

NickT said:


> I'm faaaaaar to silly to understand all the code you guys are writing. So I have a simple question....
> 
> I'm about to buy a 26650 mod. Is the Efest "64amp" going to blow up in my face?


 
Not likely Nick - Those Efest batteries are rated at 32Amp continuous power delivery (With 64Amp only being the peak rate, which for all intents and purposes, does not mean much)

32Amp continuous power delivery is 2Amps more than what you would get from a Sony VTC 5

Have a look here for the spec sheet: http://efestpower.com/Product/123409115.html (EFest must have noticed people complaining as they now break down battery detail to distinguish between Maximum _Pulse_ Discharging Current and Maximum Discharging Current)

Reactions: Thanks 1 | Informative 1


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## Yiannaki

I wish Sony made 18500 batteries. No clue what to buy for the mini when it arrives!


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## M4dm0nk3y

NickT said:


> I'm faaaaaar to silly to understand all the code you guys are writing. So I have a simple question....
> 
> I'm about to buy a 26650 mod. Is the Efest "64amp" going to blow up in my face?


 
Hey Nick, just to be on the safe side - always confirm that your build is below that 32Amp limit (Use this link to easily calculate Amp draw you are likely to expererience: http://www.rapidtables.com/calc/electric/ohms-law-calculator.htm)

I would suggest leaving about 5Amps of room (so a build that draws a maximum of 27Amps) on those specific EFest batteries - quickly calculated you should be in the clear down to about 0.16 Ohms (which is way lower than I usually care to go anyway)

Be safe always rather than sorry

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## NickT

M4dm0nk3y said:


> Hey Nick, just to be on the safe side - always confirm that your build is below that 32Amp limit (Use this link to easily calculate Amp draw you are likely to expererience: http://www.rapidtables.com/calc/electric/ohms-law-calculator.htm)
> 
> I would suggest leaving about 5Amps of room (so a build that draws a maximum of 27Amps) on those specific EFest batteries - quickly calculated you should be in the clear down to about 0.16 Ohms (which is way lower than I usually care to go anyway)
> 
> Be safe always rather than sorry



Hell, that's low. I was thinking of .5 - .6 builds.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Alex

All I want to know is where to get VTC5's from locally?

I'm not going to settle for anything less.

Reactions: Like 1


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## NickT

Alex said:


> All I want to know is where to get VTC5's from locally?
> 
> I'm not going to settle for anything less.



http://vapemob.co.za/product/sony-vtc5-18650-2600mah-battery-flat-top-30a/

Reactions: Agree 1 | Thanks 1


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## Yiannaki

Alex said:


> All I want to know is where to get VTC5's from locally?
> 
> I'm not going to settle for anything less.


What are u currently using on the reo bro?

I need to know cause I'm gonna be needing 18500s soon.


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## Alex

Yiannaki said:


> What are u currently using on the reo bro?
> 
> I need to know cause I'm gonna be needing 18500s soon.


 
I have two of these..





and two of these..




That I currently use in the Reo mini.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Yiannaki

Alex said:


> I have two of these..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and two of these..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That I currently use in the Reo mini.


Any notable difference between the two? Or any preference?


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## Andre

M4dm0nk3y said:


> Not likely Nick - Those Efest batteries are rated at 32Amp continuous power delivery (With 64Amp only being the peak rate, which for all intents and purposes, does not mean much)
> 
> 32Amp continuous power delivery is 2Amps more than what you would get from a Sony VTC 5
> 
> Have a look here for the spec sheet: http://efestpower.com/Product/123409115.html (EFest must have noticed people complaining as they now break down battery detail to distinguish between Maximum _Pulse_ Discharging Current and Maximum Discharging Current)


Thanks. Was wondering if there is a difference between "Maximum Discharging Current" and "Continuous Maximum Discharging Current"?
E.g., for the 18650 3100 mAh they specify a max discharge current of 20A (which does not tally with the evidence above), but for the 18500 1000 mAh they specify a continuous maximum discharging current of 15A.


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## Yiannaki

This whole battery thing is making me uneasy. I'm worried about what to buy for the mini and be able to vape safely. I want to be able to vape anywhere between .75 and 1 ohm. I wonder If this is possible on the Purple Efest 18500 or the Red series 18490.

I wish there was a Sony alternative in 18500


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## M4dm0nk3y

Yiannaki said:


> This whole battery thing is making me uneasy. I'm worried about what to buy for the mini and be able to vape safely. I want to be able to vape anywhere between .75 and 1 ohm. I wonder If this is possible on the Purple Efest 18500 or the Red series 18490.
> 
> I wish there was a Sony alternative in 18500


 
EFest 18500 Purple looks fine (tested up to limit of 15A continuous): http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...eview-of-Efest-IMR18500-1000mAh-(Purple)-2014

*Conclusion*
These battery has very good high current performance, but the size limits the capacity (If you have 15mm more length, you can get more than twice the capacity).
With the performance of these cells, I will call it a good battery.

15Amp - 3Amp for safety = 12 Amp safe limit = down to 0.3Ohm build @ 4.2 Volts (freshly charged)

I would steer clear of EFest 18490 Red (tested up to limit of only 5A continuous): http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Efest IMR18490 1100mAh (Red) UK.html

*Conclusion*
This cell works well at _the currents I have tested._
At the current time I can only rate them acceptable, because Efest is a new company, and the batteries is not from one of the big brands.

5Amp - 2Amp for safety = 3 Amp safe limit = down to 1.4Ohm build @ 4.2 Volts (freshly charged)


My own conclusion: The purple 18500's should serve you well, not really sold on the 18490's though

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1 | Informative 1


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## M4dm0nk3y

Yiannaki said:


> This whole battery thing is making me uneasy. I'm worried about what to buy for the mini and be able to vape safely. I want to be able to vape anywhere between .75 and 1 ohm. I wonder If this is possible on the Purple Efest 18500 or the Red series 18490.
> 
> I wish there was a Sony alternative in 18500


 
Correction on purple calculation:

15Amp - 3Amp for safety = 12 Amp safe limit = down to *0.35*Ohm build @ 4.2 Volts (freshly charged)

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1 | Informative 1


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## Yiannaki

M4dm0nk3y said:


> Correction on purple calculation:
> 
> 15Amp - 3Amp for safety = 12 Amp safe limit = down to *0.35*Ohm build @ 4.2 Volts (freshly charged)


Shot for all the info bud 

It's greatly appreciated! You seem to be very clued up on batteries

Reactions: Like 1


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## Yiannaki

Just pulled the trigger on 3 Vtc 5's from Vapemob! 

Will hit up VK to grab some purple Efest 18500's this week.

Reactions: Like 1 | Thanks 1


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## M4dm0nk3y

Yiannaki said:


> Shot for all the info bud
> 
> It's greatly appreciated! You seem to be very clued up on batteries


 
I'm happy to be of help - especially when it comes to battery safety  Doing a lot of research and reading in that field at the moment. Share the knowledge, share the power

Reactions: Winner 4


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## Andre

M4dm0nk3y said:


> I'm happy to be of help - especially when it comes to battery safety  Doing a lot of research and reading in that field at the moment. Share the knowledge, share the power


Yes, thank you very much. The independent sources help a lot. I do not trust the Efest site as a source. Their terminology is very inconsistent as I pointed out in this post above. 
You are now our official battery expert!
Has the candlepower forum tested the purple Efest 3100 yet?

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## devdev

Anyone noticing a trend here?

Reactions: Agree 2


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## johan

Received the following email from jone@sz-eyoung.com a couple of minutes ago:

"_Dear Customers,_

_Thank you very much for supporting us always._

_Our customers feedback that there are many fake Efest batteries in the market. Please Note: All original Efest producsts are only from our company. Our official email domains are @sz-eyoung.com or @efestpower.com. Please contact us if you found any fake Efest batteries, we will appreciate it very much!_

_By the way, there are many fake Sony and other brand batteries, but it is 100% sure that we sell only original batteries. We have a large number of inventory for VTC4 batteries. And we have most competitive price(4.24USD/pc). Welcome to order it. Please check the picture as below:_

_Just let me know if you have any question, I will reply you soon._

_Best regards_

_Jone_

_SHENZHEN FEST TECHNOLOGY CO., LTD_
_ www.efestpower.com_
Skype: szeyoungsales"

Reactions: Like 2


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## kevkev

Ugh more fakes, hopefully we are not all running around with ICR's.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Yiannaki

Guess the only way to guarantee an original is going to the factory and fetching one 

This fake story sucks!

I was telling @Rob Fisher this morning, I've been vaping a 1.3 ohm coil for the last few days since reading about this stuff to stay in the safe zone.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Andre

johan said:


> Received the following email from jone@sz-eyoung.com a couple of minutes ago:
> 
> "_Dear Customers,_
> 
> _Thank you very much for supporting us always._
> 
> _Our customers feedback that there are many fake Efest batteries in the market. Please Note: All original Efest producsts are only from our company. Our official email domains are @sz-eyoung.com or @efestpower.com. Please contact us if you found any fake Efest batteries, we will appreciate it very much!_
> 
> _By the way, there are many fake Sony and other brand batteries, but it is 100% sure that we sell only original batteries. We have a large number of inventory for VTC4 batteries. And we have most competitive price(4.24USD/pc). Welcome to order it. Please check the picture as below:_
> 
> _Just let me know if you have any question, I will reply you soon._
> 
> _Best regards_
> 
> _Jone_
> 
> _SHENZHEN FEST TECHNOLOGY CO., LTD
> www.efestpower.com_
> Skype: szeyoungsales"


My problem with Efest batts are not that they are fake. Most vendors seem to order directly from Efest. But the descriptions on their batteries are suspect. And the terminology used on their web site is not consistent at all. And as soon as they say that there are many fakes of a competitor's batteries I really have to doubt their integrity.

Reactions: Agree 5 | Informative 1


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## johan

Andre said:


> My problem with Efest batts are not that they are fake. Most vendors seem to order directly from Efest. But the descriptions on their batteries are suspect. And the terminology used on their web site is not consistent at all. And as soon as they say that there are many fakes of a competitor's batteries I really have to doubt their integrity.


 
I agree 100%


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## Alex

The Red Efests I posted earlier have been performing really well in every build I do. They do perform better than the purple ones, at least for me. And I wouldn't hesitate to get some more.


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## Ross44

i have a question…i bought 2 purple 3100 20A efests that are now packed away, and have gone back to my old red 1600 30A efests. does anyone know if these are also lies wrapped on these batteries?


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## M4dm0nk3y

Andre said:


> Yes, thank you very much. The independent sources help a lot. I do not trust the Efest site as a source. Their terminology is very inconsistent as I pointed out in this post above.
> You are now our official battery expert!
> Has the candlepower forum tested the purple Efest 3100 yet?


 
Glad to be of assistance, I feel your pain - I don't understand why they would provide false information on their own products; any good vaper does a ton of research before plunging head-first into something 

I found the following while searching for some answers on the Purple EFest 3100Mah batteries:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-GENUINE...rElectronics_Batteries_SM&hash=item2a3cf61419

*Product Description : 2x EFEST 18650 IMR 3100mAh 20A LiMn Purple Unprotected Flat Top Rechargeable Batteries* 
Size : 18.20mm x 65.20mm
Nominal Voltage : 3.70V
Nominal Capacity : 3100mAh
Tested Capacity : N/A , 10A CC Discharge test , % of Claimed Capacity ECOLUXSHOP UK®
Charging Metod : CC/CV 4.20V
Discharge Voltage : 2.50V (Average Cut Off)
Charging Current CC : 1000mA 
Rapid Charging Current : 3000mA
Continuous Discharge Current : 10A
Max Discharge Current : 20A
Measured Energy : N/A Wh (10A Test) 
Internal Resistance : 0.10-0.12 Ohm
Weight : 47gr.max
Color : Purple
Protection : No
Model : Flat Top
Safe Run Up : 0.6 Ohm

(Also check out the graph on that page to see how it compares to some other popular batteries @ 10Amps)

*Bottom line:*
If you are happy to go as low as 0.6Ohm, these should not disappoint, any lower and you start running some risk. I think these would be perfectly suitable in a Reo/Kayfun but not so much on an RDA (Pro is obviously better battery life, con is that you would not be able to go any lower than 0.6Ohm and still feel safe while using them, unless you are fearless of course )


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## Andre

M4dm0nk3y said:


> Glad to be of assistance, I feel your pain - I don't understand why they would provide false information on their own products; any good vaper does a ton of research before plunging head-first into something
> 
> I found the following while searching for some answers on the Purple EFest 3100Mah batteries:
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-GENUINE...rElectronics_Batteries_SM&hash=item2a3cf61419
> 
> *Product Description : 2x EFEST 18650 IMR 3100mAh 20A LiMn Purple Unprotected Flat Top Rechargeable Batteries*
> Size : 18.20mm x 65.20mm
> Nominal Voltage : 3.70V
> Nominal Capacity : 3100mAh
> Tested Capacity : N/A , 10A CC Discharge test , % of Claimed Capacity ECOLUXSHOP UK®
> Charging Metod : CC/CV 4.20V
> Discharge Voltage : 2.50V (Average Cut Off)
> Charging Current CC : 1000mA
> Rapid Charging Current : 3000mA
> Continuous Discharge Current : 10A
> Max Discharge Current : 20A
> Measured Energy : N/A Wh (10A Test)
> Internal Resistance : 0.10-0.12 Ohm
> Weight : 47gr.max
> Color : Purple
> Protection : No
> Model : Flat Top
> Safe Run Up : 0.6 Ohm
> 
> (Also check out the graph on that page to see how it compares to some other popular batteries @ 10Amps)
> 
> *Bottom line:*
> If you are happy to go as low as 0.6Ohm, these should not disappoint, any lower and you start running some risk. I think these would be perfectly suitable in a Reo/Kayfun but not so much on an RDA (Pro is obviously better battery life, con is that you would not be able to go any lower than 0.6Ohm and still feel safe while using them, unless you are fearless of course )


 
Thank you so much for all the trouble. A 10A Continuous Discharge Current is much better than the 4A the ECF source says.

Here is a translation of the article referred to. Some interesting reading (also the comments), inter alia, that these are in fact Panasonic ICR batteries (not IMR at all). Also here is a *declaration by Efest* wherein they state that the 3100 batt does have a CDC of only 10A and is only safe above 0.6 ohms.

Personally, I would not use these batteries below 0.8 ohms to feel relatively safe.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## M4dm0nk3y

Andre said:


> Thank you so much for all the trouble. A 10A Continuous Discharge Current is much better than the 4A the ECF source says.
> 
> Here is a translation of the article referred to. Some interesting reading (also the comments), inter alia, that these are in fact Panasonic ICR batteries (not IMR at all). Also here is a *declaration by Efest* wherein they state that the 3100 batt does have a CDC of only 10A and is only safe above 0.6 ohms.
> 
> Personally, I would not use these batteries below 0.8 ohms to be feel relatively safe.


 
Agreed 100% - I would always suggest leaving some room for safety as well. If someone wants to chase closer to that edge, there needs to be constant checking on battery temperature, etc - I'm rather lazy and don't like babying them like that

Reactions: Like 1


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## Yiannaki

Alex said:


> The Red Efests I posted earlier have been performing really well in every build I do. They do perform better than the purple ones, at least for me. And I wouldn't hesitate to get some more.


Alex, what is the lowest resistance you have vaped at on the mini?


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## Andre

Yiannaki said:


> Alex, what is the lowest resistance you have vaped at on the mini?


When I had a Mini, the lowest I went with the purple Efests was 0.6, which I think is quite safe on them.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Yiannaki

Andre said:


> When I had a Mini, the lowest I went with the purple Efests was 0.6, which I think is quite safe on them.


Thanks Andre  as always your input is gladly appreciated!!!


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## M4dm0nk3y

Andre said:


> Thank you so much for all the trouble. A 10A Continuous Discharge Current is much better than the 4A the ECF source says.
> 
> Here is a translation of the article referred to. Some interesting reading (also the comments), inter alia, that these are in fact Panasonic ICR batteries (not IMR at all). Also here is a *declaration by Efest* wherein they state that the 3100 batt does have a CDC of only 10A and is only safe above 0.6 ohms.
> 
> Personally, I would not use these batteries below 0.8 ohms to feel relatively safe.


 
Aha! I knew something was up @ EFest HQ now that they are providing differentiation between PCD and CDC on their new Purple 26650s:

_Regarding to the discharging current on batteries, we HAD MOST of the Collected customers' kind suggestions, started to describe Both continuous discharging current and pulse current discharging our batteries and we made ??it on our NEW PURPLE Efest IMR 26650 batteries, So all new batteries Will Both state of continuous discharging current and discharging current pulse from June, 2014_

Oh well, better late than never I guess

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Alex

Yiannaki said:


> Alex, what is the lowest resistance you have vaped at on the mini?


 
.45ohms no problem

Reactions: Like 1


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## Yiannaki

Alex said:


> .45ohms no problem


Awesome sauce!


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## Alex

Yiannaki said:


> Awesome sauce!


 
I've gone even lower to about .38ohms for a day of two. Also no problem.

I don't take long drags though, usually about 1 second.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Andre

Alex said:


> I've gone even lower to about .38ohms for a day of two. Also no problem.
> 
> I don't take long drags though, usually about 1 second.


Living dangerously!


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## Yiannaki

Alex said:


> I've gone even lower to about .38ohms for a day of two. Also no problem.
> 
> I don't take long drags though, usually about 1 second.


Good to know they can go that low. I don't see myslef going under .65 

I'll probably go as low as .7/.75 on the mini. It's gonna be my special juice work horse


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## Alex

Andre said:


> Living dangerously!

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Alex

Yiannaki said:


> Good to know they can go that low. I don't see myslef going under .65
> 
> I'll probably go as low as .7/.75 on the mini. It's gonna be my special juice work horse


 
you say that now, but wait

Reactions: Like 1


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## Yiannaki

Alex said:


> you say that now, but wait


I said I wouldn't get into mech mods, but look at me now 

and I also said I was done with hardware after the first reo.

I think I shouldn't trust what I say

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Andre

Alex said:


>


Lol. The top part should read: "I see you have coiled to 0.3 ohms and take 1 seconds drags with eyes closed."

Have not yet done a 0.3 ohms coil, but have been challenged by @Gazzacpt to vape Frenilla at that resistance. Just waiting for a atomizer to come available.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Alex

Andre said:


> Lol. The top part should read: "I see you have coiled to 0.3 ohms and take 1 seconds drags with eyes closed."
> 
> Have not yet done a 0.3 ohms coil, but have been challenged by @Gazzacpt to vape Frenilla at that resistance. Just waiting for a atomizer to come available.


 
The lowest I've gone was using the atomic dual coil. Man this RDA is fantastic for flavour and Throat Hit. At 12mg juice, I can barely handle a 1 second drag.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Andre

Alex said:


> The lowest I've gone was using the atomic dual coil. Man this RDA is fantastic for flavour and Throat Hit. At 12mg juice, I can barely handle a 1 second drag.


Then I shall have to get one from @JakesSA, if still available.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## JakesSA

Indeed there are a few left.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Yiannaki

Andre said:


> Lol. The top part should read: "I see you have coiled to 0.3 ohms and take 1 seconds drags with eyes closed."
> 
> Have not yet done a 0.3 ohms coil, but have been challenged by @Gazzacpt to vape Frenilla at that resistance. Just waiting for a atomizer to come available.


Done  with a bit of a twist!

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Alex

JakesSA said:


> Indeed there are a few left.


 
I think I may need to get another one as well. Better fire up the lathe. @JakesSA

Reactions: Like 1


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## Andre

Alex said:


> I think I may need to get another one as well. Better fire up the lathe. @JakesSA


Ordered and paid. @JakesSA is also modding my Plume Veil to bottom fed. Excitement! Hope my Reo's threads are ok.

Reactions: Like 1


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## JakesSA

@johan, how difficult would it be to build a test and record rig for these batteries? I'd be happy to sacrifice a battery here and there to ensure they are safe and up to standard.

I don't have good digital measure AND record equipment but I was thinking of using an Arduino to record the battery voltage while .. remote .. firing a set ohm resistance. The Arduino has 10 bit ADC will that suffice?

EDIT: Specs on the ADC
"Reads the value from the specified analog pin. The Arduino board contains a 6 channel (8 channels on the Mini and Nano, 16 on the Mega), 10-bit analog to digital converter. This means that it will map input voltages between 0 and 5 volts into integer values between 0 and 1023. This yields a resolution between readings of: 5 volts / 1024 units or, .0049 volts (4.9 mV) per unit. The input range and resolution can be changed using analogReference().
It takes about 100 microseconds (0.0001 s) to read an analog input, so the maximum reading rate is about 10,000 times a second."


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## Gazzacpt

Strange thing about atomic is I get better flavour on a single coil build.


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## JakesSA

Gazzacpt said:


> Strange thing about atomic is I get better flavour on a single coil build.


 
I was talking to @Alex about this today. If heat influences taste then a 0.8 Ohm single coil will not be the same as a 0.8 Ohm (total) dual coil since the heat is effectively divided between two coils... I think...

Of course this may be common knowledge to everyone except me ...

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Yiannaki

Andre said:


> Ordered and paid. @JakesSA is also modding my Plume Veil to bottom fed. Excitement! Hope my Reo's threads are ok.


I'm so fascinated by the Plumeveil! And I really want one.

You have to let us know how it vapes once you've set it up.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Andre

JakesSA said:


> I was talking to @Alex about this today. If heat influences taste then a 0.8 Ohm single coil will not be the same as a 0.8 Ohm (total) dual coil since the heat is effectively divided between two coils... I think...
> 
> Of course this may be common knowledge to everyone except me ...


Yes, with dual coil you need to go quite lower than your standard on single coils. But sure @Gazzacpt knows this, he plays on the pitch black side - and cannot go below 0.0 on his dual coils.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Alex

Gazzacpt said:


> Strange thing about atomic is I get better flavour on a single coil build.


 
I suppose it can depend on the type of coil, I prefer my coils with, 1.4mm ID, 6 or 7 wraps with rayon. Flavour is easily on par with the rm2 for me, maybe even better.

The single coil is also good though. But the slightly larger chamber seems better suited for duals. Oh, and I only use the smallest air holes. They are the biggest influence with regards the flavour for me.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gazzacpt

Alex said:


> I suppose it can depend on the type of coil, I prefer my coils with, 1.4mm ID, 6 or 7 wraps with rayon. Flavour is easily on par with the rm2 for me, maybe even better.
> 
> The single coil is also good though. But the slightly larger chamber seems better suited for duals. Oh, and I only use the smallest air holes. They are the biggest influence with regards the flavour for me.


If I used the smallest airhole I would plobably die. The second largest one is just right for my builds any smaller theres to little airflow and my throat would be scorched. Bigger and flavour disappears a bit.


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## Yiannaki

Alex said:


> I suppose it can depend on the type of coil, I prefer my coils with, 1.4mm ID, 6 or 7 wraps with rayon. Flavour is easily on par with the rm2 for me, maybe even better.
> 
> The single coil is also good though. But the slightly larger chamber seems better suited for duals. Oh, and I only use the smallest air holes. They are the biggest influence with regards the flavour for me.


Can I give the atomic a bash at the vape meet if I bring my own drip tip?


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## Alex

Yiannaki said:


> Can I give the atomic a bash at the vape meet if I bring my own drip tip?


 
sure thing

Reactions: Like 1


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## Alex

Gazzacpt said:


> If I used the smallest airhole I would plobably die. The second largest one is just right for my builds any smaller theres to little airflow and my throat would be scorched. Bigger and flavour disappears a bit.


 
I have steel lungs bro, 2 packs of Winston Reds a day will do that.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## johan

JakesSA said:


> @johan, how difficult would it be to build a test and record rig for these batteries? I'd be happy to sacrifice a battery here and there to ensure they are safe and up to standard.
> 
> I don't have good digital measure AND record equipment but I was thinking of using an Arduino to record the battery voltage while .. remote .. firing a set ohm resistance. The Arduino has 10 bit ADC will that suffice?
> 
> EDIT: Specs on the ADC
> "Reads the value from the specified analog pin. The Arduino board contains a 6 channel (8 channels on the Mini and Nano, 16 on the Mega), 10-bit analog to digital converter. This means that it will map input voltages between 0 and 5 volts into integer values between 0 and 1023. This yields a resolution between readings of: 5 volts / 1024 units or, .0049 volts (4.9 mV) per unit. The input range and resolution can be changed using analogReference().
> It takes about 100 microseconds (0.0001 s) to read an analog input, so the maximum reading rate is about 10,000 times a second."


 
Jakes I agree Arduino would be a quick solution. Here's a one including source code: http://www.electronicsblog.net/very...ion-battery-capacity-testerdischarge-monitor/

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Yiannaki

@johan is there anyway to turn our multimeters into fake battery testers  ?


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## johan

Yiannaki said:


> @johan is there anyway to turn our multimeters into fake battery testers  ?


 
According to @Silver, YES - if it flashes when you take a reading it is fake, if the display continuously display the reading the battery is authentic

Reactions: Funny 5


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## Yiannaki

Oh oh, I guess @devdev has some fake efest purples

Reactions: Funny 2


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## JakesSA

johan said:


> Jakes I agree Arduino would be a quick solution. Here's a one including source code: http://www.electronicsblog.net/very...ion-battery-capacity-testerdischarge-monitor/


 
Thanks @johan! Gotta love those Arduinos, whatever I come up with someone's already done and published the how to.

Reactions: Like 1


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## johan

JakesSA said:


> Thanks @johan! Gotta love those Arduinos, whatever I come up with someone's already done and published the how to.


 
Go to Arduinos main website, maybe there are more and/or better, unfortunately I don't use Arduinos, but microchip and other micros.


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## JakesSA

johan said:


> Go to Arduinos main website, maybe there are more and/or better, unfortunately I don't use Arduinos, but microchip and other micros.


 
Need an apprentice, I'm not particularly bright but can work long hours?

Reactions: Funny 3


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## johan

JakesSA said:


> Need an apprentice, I'm not particularly bright but can work long hours?


 
 thanks for offering yourself up, but jokes aside; in mass production runs, Arduinos are not economical viable compared to ST micros and the like.


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## JakesSA

100% with you on that, electrical engineering is one of the very few other professions I would consider if I had a 'do over'. I don't think I'll ever get closer than hobby-tronics but that, and a little metal machining, puts me in heaven.


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## johan

JakesSA said:


> 100% with you on that, electrical engineering is one of the very few other professions I would consider if I had a 'do over'. I don't think I'll ever get closer than hobby-tronics but that, and a little metal machining, puts me in heaven.


 
You want to swop trades - I'm keen?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## JakesSA

LOL, I guess its not the same as having to do it full time. Too much of a good thing...?


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## johan

JakesSA said:


> LOL, I guess its not the same as having to do it full time. Too much of a good thing...?


 
Yip I agree.


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## M4dm0nk3y

I found Chuff Alufiigus' channel on YouTube, he did some interesting tests on batteries (the types we typically use): https://www.youtube.com/user/chuffaluffigus/videos

This should help to allay fears in case of battery venting (it's much less dramatic than what I thought it would be)

Reactions: Like 1 | Thanks 1


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## Heckers

Hi guys. I have 2 Sanyo UR18650FM batteries but it looks like they are only capable of 5A.
So i have now ordered 2 3100mah purple Efest batteries but now read that they can only handle 10A.
Am i wasting my money or will they be fine?
I am not planning to go super sub-ohm but would definitely like to explore below 1 ohm.


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## WHeunis

Heckers, my personal opinion on safety will not allow me to recommend anything but the safest options.
I wouldnt risk it ANYWHERE below 1 ohm on anything other than VTC4/5.
Other batteries do exist that do the same or maybe even better, but youve never seen an authentic vtc fail catastrophically... Theres a reason you dont ever see it...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Reactions: Agree 2 | Disagree 1


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## MarkK

Vtc5 wont let you down

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 1


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## kevkev

WHeunis said:


> Heckers, my personal opinion on safety will not allow me to recommend anything but the safest options.
> I wouldnt risk it ANYWHERE below 1 ohm on anything other than VTC4/5.
> Other batteries do exist that do the same or maybe even better, but youve never seen an authentic vtc fail catastrophically... Theres a reason you dont ever see it...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


 

With the 3100mah Efest I am running .7 - .8 ohm builds without any issues. They don't even get luke warm. .8 pulling +-5 amps.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Yiannaki

Calling @M4dm0nk3y battery guru!


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## vaalboy

Heckers said:


> Hi guys. I have 2 Sanyo UR18650FM batteries but it looks like they are only capable of 5A.
> So i have now ordered 2 3100mah purple Efest batteries but now read that they can only handle 10A.
> Am i wasting my money or will they be fine?
> I am not planning to go super sub-ohm but would definitely like to explore below 1 ohm.


 
I have been using the Efest 3100's 20A on coils ranging 0.7-0.9 ohms for a while now and find the battery life fantastic. I also haven't felt them warm up even after serious dry burns.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Gazzacpt

Heckers said:


> Hi guys. I have 2 Sanyo UR18650FM batteries but it looks like they are only capable of 5A.
> So i have now ordered 2 3100mah purple Efest batteries but now read that they can only handle 10A.
> Am i wasting my money or will they be fine?
> I am not planning to go super sub-ohm but would definitely like to explore below 1 ohm.


Hi. There has been some worrying facts about that particular battery brought to light recently and I would personally stay away from them for subohm builds. The efest 35A are over specced but will serve you well if you stay over 0.5 I use mnke and vtc5 when I venture down low and also have a set of efest 30A 2100mah for my milder builds 0.4 up.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## capetocuba

Gazzacpt said:


> Hi. There has been some worrying facts about that particular battery brought to light recently and I would personally stay away from them for subohm builds. The efest 35A are over specced but will serve you well if you stay over 0.5 I use mnke and vtc5 when I venture down low and also have a set of efest 30A 2100mah for my milder builds 0.4 up.


Yeah have had no problems with any of my efest batteries heating up. I have been using my purple 2500mAh on a 0.52 ohm build on Reo no problem. I now only use my 3100mAh exclusively on my cana mod.


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## Limbo

Also have the 3100mah efests. No heating so far, even at 0.5ohm. I still stay at about 0.8ohm though. How reliable are these sources?


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## Heckers

Cool thanks @Limbo .I dont think i will go below 0.6, 0.7
But i will be curious in the beginning to try it out and see what the difference is.
I expect to mostly stay around 0.8 to 1.5 until i find my sweet spot.


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## Gazzacpt

Limbo said:


> Also have the 3100mah efests. No heating so far, even at 0.5ohm. I still stay at about 0.8ohm though. How reliable are these sources?


There is a thread on this forum about them with links to ECF, candlepower forums and dampfakkus.de can't find it right now but some googlefu should get you there.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Limbo

Gazzacpt said:


> There is a thread on this forum about them with links to ECF, candlepower forums and dampfakkus.de can't find it right now but some googlefu should get you there.


My concern us how reliable are these forums? Are they using the exact same ones? Are they maybe using fake batteries? Has any Efest battery ever exploded? I understand the concern for sub par batteries, but so far there is no evidence from local people using them.


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## Gazzacpt

Limbo said:


> My concern us how reliable are these forums? Are they using the exact same ones? Are they maybe using fake batteries? Has any Efest battery ever exploded? I understand the concern for sub par batteries, but so far there is no evidence from local people using them.


All I know is that efest claimed a high amperage rating on a battery that clearly wasn't meant for the specs they claimed. Made me distrust them and I did quite a bit of reading. Try find that thread its interesting reading. Efest themselves have come back and said ok its only 10A continuous discharge.

Reactions: Like 1


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## WHeunis

Limbo said:


> My concern us how reliable are these forums? Are they using the exact same ones? Are they maybe using fake batteries? Has any Efest battery ever exploded? I understand the concern for sub par batteries, but so far there is no evidence from local people using them.


 
So this one time, I microwaved a spoon and it worked out fine.
Does that mean I can just shove it full of metal now, because everything has worked fine SO FAR?

"SO FAR" is a very dangerous statement, pretty much on par with "TRUST ME".

The reliability of the tests and data was so good that Efest themselves did a backpedal and quickly told some more lies to cover up their previous lies...

Reactions: Like 1


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## capetocuba

Here's the one link from ECF

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...87759-purple-efest-18650-battery-warning.html


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## Limbo

WHeunis said:


> So this one time, I microwaved a spoon and it worked out fine.
> Does that mean I can just shove it full of metal now, because everything has worked fine SO FAR?
> 
> "SO FAR" is a very dangerous statement, pretty much on par with "TRUST ME".
> 
> The reliability of the tests and data was so good that Efest themselves did a backpedal and quickly told some more lies to cover up their previous lies...


Huh? There's no evidence of the specified battery even heating up at 0.6ohm. What have the test concluded? They explode at 0.4ohm? I just asked for evidence from local people using them, no need to be a ass about it.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Dislike 1


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## WHeunis

Limbo said:


> Huh? There's no evidence of the specified battery even heating up at 0.6ohm. What have the test concluded? They explode at 0.4ohm? I just asked for evidence from local people using them, no need to be a ass about it.


 
Not being an ass, but see it whichever way you want.



> Dampfakku showed that these Efest Purple 20A are actually Panasonic continuous discharge cells supporting 4A (!) And maximum (and therefore for a short time), 6.4 A. The limit for the resistors in order to vape safely with these batteries is not 0.25 ohm but above 0.8ohm


 
Keyword: SAFELY.
Can you vape them lower than 0.8 anyway?
Sure!
SO FAR, nobody has blown their own face off... so far...


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## capetocuba

Here's the link to Efest purple 2500mAh

http://www.dampfakkus.de/akkutest.php?id=509

and the Efest purple 2100mAh

http://www.dampfakkus.de/akkutest.php?id=508


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## WHeunis

capetocuba said:


> Here's the link to Efest purple 2500mAh
> 
> http://www.dampfakkus.de/akkutest.php?id=509
> 
> and the Efest purple 2100mAh
> 
> http://www.dampfakkus.de/akkutest.php?id=508


 
Here is the purple 3100mAh one's that came out at 4A instead of 20A.
http://www.dampfakkus.de/akkutest.php?id=531

That one is the nail in the coffin.


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## JakesSA

Here I must interject..


The 3100 mah may well be based on a Panasonic but it may not even be the NCR18650BE, these cells are completely unmarked under the wrapper. That is an assumption from dampfakkus which he sort of concedes at the bottom of the webpage OR indicates that the 'official' rating for the NCR18650BE may be inaccurate.

I quote from the dampfakkus link: "EN: This cell is advertised as 20A. However it is based on a Panasonic NCR18650BE which is rated anywhere between 4A and 6.4A max continuous discharge.* Performance test results put it on a level between NCR128650B (6.5A) and Panasonic NCR18650PF (10A) and is doing fine there.* "

This is further supported by the exhaustive testing performed here:
http://lygte-info.dk/ - this is the KeepPower equivalent of this cell. See the comment at the bottom of the page. Confirmation that the cell performs fine at 10A continuously and therefore will handle down to 0.4 ohm amicably. You may agree that this test is rather comprehensive.

The 2500 mah Efest is based on an LG cell which officially has a 75 second rating at 35A and and handles 20A continuously.
http://lygte-info.dk/

Last thing to note, dampfakkus assumes that the rating stated on the cell is continuous whereas Efest does not make this statement. Efest states "Max discharge rating", draw your own conclusions.

Stated on the Efest cells is a pulse rating which may actually be more in line with the requirements of vaping. Continuous ratings become important when you are looking to use the cell in a torch or perhaps to drive an electric motor.

VTC5s are great but there is a large demand for these cells which Sony is not really interested in meeting. This is leading to large amount of fakes coming into the market. Take it from someone who looks at vape gear price lists daily ... buyer beware. 

Note that I am a retailer and sell the 3100mah and my opinion may therefore be biased, but I also use them .. extensively.

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 1 | Thanks 1 | Informative 1


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## kevkev

JakesSA said:


> Here I must interject..
> 
> 
> The 3100 mah may well be based on a Panasonic but it may not even be the NCR18650BE, these cells are completely unmarked under the wrapper. That is an assumption from dampfakkus which he sort of concedes at the bottom of the webpage OR indicates that the 'official' rating for the NCR18650BE may be inaccurate.
> 
> I quote from the dampfakkus link: "EN: This cell is advertised as 20A. However it is based on a Panasonic NCR18650BE which is rated anywhere between 4A and 6.4A max continuous discharge.* Performance test results put it on a level between NCR128650B (6.5A) and Panasonic NCR18650PF (10A) and is doing fine there.* "
> 
> This is further supported by the exhaustive testing performed here:
> http://lygte-info.dk/ - this is the KeepPower equivalent of this cell. See the comment at the bottom of the page. Confirmation that the cell performs fine at 10A continuously and therefore will handle down to 0.4 ohm amicably. You may agree that this test is rather comprehensive.
> 
> The 2500 mah Efest is based on an LG cell which officially has a 75 second rating at 35A and and handles 20A continuously.
> http://lygte-info.dk/
> 
> Last thing to note, dampfakkus assumes that the rating stated on the cell is continuous whereas Efest does not make this statement. Efest states "Max discharge rating", draw your own conclusions.
> 
> Stated on the Efest cells is a pulse rating which may actually be more in line with the requirements of vaping. Continuous ratings become important when you are looking to use the cell in a torch or perhaps to drive an electric motor.
> 
> VTC5s are great but there is a large demand for these cells which Sony is not really interested in meeting. This is leading to large amount of fakes coming into the market. Take it from someone who looks at vape gear price lists daily ... buyer beware.
> 
> Note that I am a retailer and sell the 3100mah and my opinion may therefore be biased, but I also use them .. extensively.


 
Thanks @JakesSA


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## JakesSA

By the way, I am not implying any knowledge of fake VTC batteries being sold in South Africa at this time.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## WHeunis

JakesSA said:


> Here I must interject..
> 
> 
> The 3100 mah may well be based on a Panasonic but it may not even be the NCR18650BE, these cells are completely unmarked under the wrapper. That is an assumption from dampfakkus which he sort of concedes at the bottom of the webpage OR indicates that the 'official' rating for the NCR18650BE may be inaccurate.
> 
> I quote from the dampfakkus link: "EN: This cell is advertised as 20A. However it is based on a Panasonic NCR18650BE which is rated anywhere between 4A and 6.4A max continuous discharge.* Performance test results put it on a level between NCR128650B (6.5A) and Panasonic NCR18650PF (10A) and is doing fine there.* "
> 
> This is further supported by the exhaustive testing performed here:
> http://lygte-info.dk/ - this is the KeepPower equivalent of this cell. See the comment at the bottom of the page. Confirmation that the cell performs fine at 10A continuously and therefore will handle down to 0.4 ohm amicably. You may agree that this test is rather comprehensive.
> 
> The 2500 mah Efest is based on an LG cell which officially has a 75 second rating at 35A and and handles 20A continuously.
> http://lygte-info.dk/
> 
> Last thing to note, dampfakkus assumes that the rating stated on the cell is continuous whereas Efest does not make this statement. Efest states "Max discharge rating", draw your own conclusions.
> 
> Stated on the Efest cells is a pulse rating which may actually be more in line with the requirements of vaping. Continuous ratings become important when you are looking to use the cell in a torch or perhaps to drive an electric motor.
> 
> VTC5s are great but there is a large demand for these cells which Sony is not really interested in meeting. This is leading to large amount of fakes coming into the market. Take it from someone who looks at vape gear price lists daily ... buyer beware.
> 
> Note that I am a retailer and sell the 3100mah and my opinion may therefore be biased, but I also use them .. extensively.


 
The point being though: advertising/labelling a cell as 20W when it realistically cant even handle half of that... thats straightup lying through one's teeth in my opinion. Not you, Efest.
I have a serious distrust in general towards a company that has been proven to be continuously deceptive.
Deceptive on purpose in their labeling, branding, and other aspects. Whether you consider it an outright lie, or just being a clever gray-area conman... you cannot deny that they are deceptive.
And to me that makes them, and by extension their products, untrustworthy.

I consider my safety priority #1.
And as I have indicated in another thread... "so far" is not only an invalid argument in my opinion, but a dangerous one.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Alex

I've been using the purple efest battery's for quite a few months now, 18650, 18500 and 18490. No problems with any coils, as far as normal vaping usage is concerned, and I don't foresee an issue.

I think it worth noting that none of these battery products from any manufacturer were designed to run at almost a dead short for extended periods. AFAIK.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## JakesSA

I concede the point, the rating is ambiguous. I personally never realised this because I never assumed it was a continuous rating to start with but instead looked at the test data available to me, as quoted in the thread above, before making the decision to retail these batteries.

There is another problem though, a massive amount of hype is being created through this dampfakkus article, internationally. The article is being misquoted and the danger overstated. This hype is creating a massive demand for the 'only' battery that is perceived as safe namely the VTC. Counterfeiters, are always eager to encourage such sentiments, whilst eagerly supplying fakes to the unwary.

My point is this, whatever Efest's PR shortcomings are the 3100 mah is perfectly safe at 0.4 ohm and the 2500 mah is perfectly safe down to 0.2 ohm. Safety first!

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Alex

WHeunis said:


> The point being though: advertising/labelling a cell as 20W when it realistically cant even handle half of that... thats straightup lying through one's teeth in my opinion. Not you, Efest.
> I have a serious distrust in general towards a company that has been proven to be continuously deceptive.
> Deceptive on purpose in their labeling, branding, and other aspects. Whether you consider it an outright lie, or just being a clever gray-area conman... you cannot deny that they are deceptive.
> And to me that makes them, and by extension their products, untrustworthy.
> 
> I consider my safety priority #1.
> And as I have indicated in another thread... "so far" is not only an invalid argument in my opinion, but a dangerous one.


 
Most companies are guilty of the same thing.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Gazzacpt

JakesSA said:


> I concede the point, the rating is ambiguous. I personally never realised this because I never assumed it was a continuous rating to start with but instead looked at the test data available to me, as quoted in the thread above, before making the decision to retail these batteries.
> 
> There is another problem though, a massive amount of hype is being created through this dampfakkus article, internationally. The article is being misquoted and the danger overstated. This hype is creating a massive demand for the 'only' battery that is perceived as safe namely the VTC. Counterfeiters, are always eager to encourage such sentiments, whilst eagerly supplying fakes to the unwary.
> 
> My point is this, whatever Efest's PR shortcomings are the 3100 mah is perfectly safe at 0.4 ohm and the 2500 mah is perfectly safe down to 0.2 ohm. Safety first!


Good points. Still some dodgy marketing on efest side anyway I use the 30A 2100's and they perform as advertised. Before the sony's I hammered a set of MNKE's properly and they still going strong. There some good batteries out there just need to find them. 

All you need to do is choose the correct battery for your application.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## zadiac

Rob Fisher said:


> Having had my green VTC4 and VT5 batteries for a while now I thought I would do some non-technical feedback... I don't know if it's my imagination or a perception but I prefer my Purple eFest IMR 2500mAh and 3100mAh to the VTC's... they seem to last longer and charge quicker... I also prefer the button top batteries (I guess because they work better in the older REO's).
> 
> Also my Fake red AW's have performed marvellously!
> 
> I was expecting big things from the Sony VTC's and have to say I have been disappointed. I would be really interested to hear from the technical boffins on this issue.


 
I'm so glad someone else posted this first...lol. I was afraid if I said the above, people will crucify me. I have the same feeling about the Sony's as you. If I knew then what I know now, I would've bought 4 more Efest 2500mah 35A's instead of the sony's. They're good, but I think my Efest ones are better. Just my opinion. I do sub-ohm and the Efests performs beautifully!

Reactions: Like 1


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## WHeunis

zadiac said:


> I'm so glad someone else posted this first...lol. I was afraid if I said the above, people will crucify me. I have the same feeling about the Sony's as you. If I knew then what I know now, I would've bought 4 more Efest 2500mah 35A's instead of the sony's. They're good, but I think my Efest ones are better. Just my opinion. I do sub-ohm and the Efests performs beautifully!


 
Nobody is going to crucify you, geez.
But we might remind you about safety first and all that.

PS: like i said in another thread - "so far" is not a safety argument, its a gambling one.


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## Arctus

And just to further confuse the issue, on this thread on Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/electronic_cigarette/comments/2cttd4/sony_vtc5_18650_notice_from_sony/ a guy claims to have received an email from Sony, stating that they don't even make 18650's anymore, and that any VTC's out there could be from one of a few manufacturer's or old stock.

Then on Youtube:  these guys have a chat with someone who claims to have had a chat with Sony Exec's, who apparently stated that not only do Sony still make 18650's, but are ramping up production of them, and also have an interest in the vaping world. If you don't want to watch the full 2 hours, the Sony bit starts at about 1 hour, 5 minutes in.

18650's were originally sold to OEM manufacturer's to use in their high end battery packs for their cordless tools:
http://toolguyd.com/power-tool-brands-dont-make-their-own-batteries/
http://www.ebay.com.au/gds/COMPARING-BRANDS-OF-18V-POWER-TOOL-BATTERIES-/10000000072044555/g.html

They are also apparently used in the battery packs for Tesla electric sports cars, which explains the recent partnership between Tesla and Panasonic in building the new Giga battery factory in Reno, Nevada.
http://www.greenbiz.com/blog/2014/08/08/tesla-starts-building-gigafactory-panasonic.

Personally, I suspect Panasonic will be driving battery technology harder and faster than any other manufacturer from now on, and secondly, if you can afford it, buy shares in Tesla, but at the current price of more than R2500-00 a share, its going to be a little pricey. 

TL;DR: Buy shares in Tesla.

Edit: Just saw in another thread that the Sony bit is known already.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## Andre

Yip, I do not like Efest as a company because they had to be painted into a corner before publicly admitting the 20A marking on the 3100 battery does not refer to Continuous Discharge Current. It is a well known fact that safety conscious vapers look at the Continuous Discharge Current to make their purchases. And I have yet to find a South African vendor pointing this out on their web site or even showing the real Continuous Discharge Current! Words are nice, actions speak much louder.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Informative 1


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## JakesSA

Ahem ..

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Andre

JakesSA said:


> Ahem ..


Well done VapeClub, I have always been impressed, now I am doubly impressed!

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Chop007

Andre said:


> Yip, I do not like Efest as a company because they had to be painted into a corner before publicly admitting the 20A marking on the 3100 battery does not refer to Continuous Discharge Current. It is a well known fact that safety conscious vapers look at the Continuous Discharge Current to make their purchases. And I have yet to find a South African vendor pointing this out on their web site or even showing the real Continuous Discharge Current! Words are nice, actions speak much louder.


True, we have done that as well. The only battery info we are correcting is one specific battery, the Purple Efest 26650, that has a Continuous Discharge rate of 32A, while the pulse rate is 64A. The rest of our batteries are correctly stipulated. Thanks for this awesome thread and the great safety info for the vaping public. Excellent reading.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## Rob Fisher

I thought it was just my imagination that this fancy VTC5 2600mAh wasn't as good as my Purple eFest 3100mAh and 2500mAh... and there is no doubt that this particular battery is nothing short of useless! It doesn't even compare to my fake AW 2000mAh red batteries. It doesn't last and it takes an age to charge. You can see it's almost flat after an hour or so?

Unless this specific battery is a lemon and all the rest are OK but based on this I will never buy a Sony VTC5 again as long as I live!

Reactions: Informative 1


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## capetocuba

Rob Fisher said:


> I thought it was just my imagination that this fancy VTC5 2600mAh wasn't as good as my Purple eFest 3100mAh and 250mAh... and there is no doubt that this particular battery is nothing short of useless! It doesn't even compare to my fake AW 200mAh red batteries. It doesn't last and it takes an age to charge. You can see it's almost flat after an hour or so?
> 
> Unless this specific battery is a lemon and all the rest are OK but based on this I will never buy a Sony VTC5 again as long as I live!
> 
> View attachment 10942


Where did you buy this battery from?


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## Al3x

Rob Fisher said:


> I thought it was just my imagination that this fancy VTC5 2600mAh wasn't as good as my Purple eFest 3100mAh and 250mAh... and there is no doubt that this particular battery is nothing short of useless! It doesn't even compare to my fake AW 200mAh red batteries. It doesn't last and it takes an age to charge. You can see it's almost flat after an hour or so?
> 
> Unless this specific battery is a lemon and all the rest are OK but based on this I will never buy a Sony VTC5 again as long as I live!
> 
> View attachment 10942


I agree the one I have is also not up to standard. I have even tried with low sub ohm and I get around 2 hours tops but you can feel the difference in about 15 min the efest 2100 30a somehow performs better.


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## Rob Fisher

capetocuba said:


> Where did you buy this battery from?


 
From Vape Mob.


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## Rob Fisher

Al3x said:


> I agree the one I have is also not up to standard. I have even tried with low sub ohm and I get around 2 hours tops but you can feel the difference in about 15 min the efest 2100 30a somehow performs better.


 
Yip no argument there!


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## capetocuba

Rob Fisher said:


> From Vape Mob.


Wow and we were assured these were authentic. Hope it's just a dud one?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Rob Fisher

capetocuba said:


> Wow and we were assured these were authentic. Hope it's just a dud one?


 
@johan is there a way to test this battery?


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## capetocuba

@Gazzacpt and a few others brought in their own from a reputable vape store in USA and they rave about theirs.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Al3x

Rob Fisher said:


> From Vape Mob.


Mine is also from vapemob, maybe there would be someway to check them and compare to the actual stats

Reactions: Agree 1


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## capetocuba

Rob Fisher said:


> @johan is there a way to test this battery?


I think the vendor should perhaps doing this test as the moment you remove the plastic sheath you battery is worthless?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Zegee

Can't speak for anyone else I have vtc5 imported myself and it's fantastic . I find mine performs better sub ohm .2 or .3 is my happy place running in mechs. Had it in my cana as well and had no issues .
@Rob Fisher real unfortunate u not happy they are really awesome batteries


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## Rob Fisher

capetocuba said:


> I think the vendor should perhaps doing this test as the moment you remove the plastic sheath you battery is worthless?


 
I'm happy to rip off the green covering if I have to because the battery is is already worthless.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Rob Fisher

Zegee said:


> Can't speak for anyone else I have vtc5 imported myself and it's fantastic . I find mine performs better sub ohm .2 or .3 is my happy place running in mechs. Had it in my cana as well and had no issues .
> @Rob Fisher real unfortunate u not happy they are really awesome batteries


 
@Zegee where did you buy yours from?


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## Zegee

I will pm u don't wanna step on anyone's toes


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## Rob Fisher

Zegee said:


> I will pm u don't wanna step on anyone's toes


 
Thanks!


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## Al3x

Rob Fisher said:


> Thanks!


If possible I would like to join in on that buy I would take 2


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## Zegee

Rob Fisher said:


> Thanks!


Pleasure bud


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## Alex

I got two of them from my friend on Saturday evening. He got them 3 weeks ago from Vape Mob, and initially I also found them to die off earlier, like about 2hrs. Which is crazy, considering that my 18500/18490 batteries in the mini last for at least 6/7 hours. This is what prompted me to try and have a look at the contacts on these things, leading me to try a dielectric grease. And so far today the performance has been dramatically improved. I'm still testing to see how they perform in the long run though.


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## Rob Fisher

Alex said:


> I got two of them from my friend on Saturday evening. He got them 3 weeks ago from Vape Mob, and initially I also found them to die off earlier, like about 2hrs. Which is crazy, considering that my 18500/18490 batteries in the mini last for at least 6/7 hours. This is what prompted me to try and have a look at the contacts on these things, leading me to try a dielectric grease. And so far today the performance has been dramatically improved. I'm still testing to see how they perform in the long run though.


 
Thanks Alex! I will try some nolax on it...

But now have 6 VTC's coming from the US of A!

Reactions: Like 3


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## zadiac

Rob Fisher said:


> I thought it was just my imagination that this fancy VTC5 2600mAh wasn't as good as my Purple eFest 3100mAh and 2500mAh... and there is no doubt that this particular battery is nothing short of useless! It doesn't even compare to my fake AW 2000mAh red batteries. It doesn't last and it takes an age to charge. You can see it's almost flat after an hour or so?
> 
> Unless this specific battery is a lemon and all the rest are OK but based on this I will never buy a Sony VTC5 again as long as I live!
> 
> View attachment 10942


 
Thank you for confirming this Rob. I also had VTC5's from Vape Mob and they did not perform as well as my Efests so I sold them and got two Efests in their place. IMO the efests are the best.


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## Al3x

Rob Fisher said:


> Thanks Alex! I will try some nolax on it...
> 
> But now have 6 VTC's coming from the US of A!


I hope 2 of them is for me


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## Gazzacpt

capetocuba said:


> @Gazzacpt and a few others brought in their own from a reputable vape store in USA and they rave about theirs.


Mine out perform everything else own. They last longer than my 20A efests. I don't know what to tell you Mr @Rob Fisher .....


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## Zegee

zadiac said:


> Thank you for confirming this Rob. I also had VTC5's from Vape Mob and they did not perform as well as my Efests so I sold them and got two Efests in their place. IMO the efests are the best.


Interesting had a 3100mah efest try turn my hand into a scramble egg last night  all good now though still have more faith in my vtc.


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## Rob Fisher

Gazzacpt said:


> Mine out perform everything else own. They last longer than my 20A efests. I don't know what to tell you Mr @Rob Fisher .....


 
Will let you know when my VTC's arrive from the States!  And I do believe you @Gazzacpt because the chaps on ECF stem saam!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Rob Fisher

Zegee said:


> Interesting had a 3100mah efest try turn my hand into a scramble egg last night  all good now though still have more faith in my vtc.


 
Whoops! I'm glad I don't play down in the sub sub sub Ohm field!


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## Rob Fisher

Al3x said:


> I hope 2 of them is for me


 
Had I known you wanted them I would have ordered 8!


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## zadiac

Rob Fisher said:


> Whoops! I'm glad I don't play down in the sub sub sub Ohm field!


 
Hahaha..... @Rob Fisher ......sub-ohm is awesome!! I use my Efest 35A batteries for that and they perform really well. Better than my SonVTC5's did.


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## Al3x

Rob Fisher said:


> Had I known you wanted them I would have ordered 8!


no stress could you pm me the link please


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## Rob Fisher

Al3x said:


> no stress could you pm me the link please


 
Sure!

Reactions: Thanks 1


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## Zeki Hilmi

I've also ordered from overseas and willing to give my verdict once I've tried them out.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Joey786

Rob Fisher said:


> I thought it was just my imagination that this fancy VTC5 2600mAh wasn't as good as my Purple eFest 3100mAh and 2500mAh... and there is no doubt that this particular battery is nothing short of useless! It doesn't even compare to my fake AW 2000mAh red batteries. It doesn't last and it takes an age to charge. You can see it's almost flat after an hour or so?
> 
> Unless this specific battery is a lemon and all the rest are OK but based on this I will never buy a Sony VTC5 again as long as I live!
> 
> View attachment 10942



I've got the same issue from 2 vtc5 I got from them.
Seems they not living up to standard

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Alex

I hope they didn't originate from some used UPS.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## zadiac

Alex said:


> I hope they didn't originate from some used UPS.


 
Are you happy with the ones you got from me bro? Don't want to give your money back later


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## Rob Fisher

Why did everyone keep quiet? I thought I was just being doff! I was so excited because I had heard so many good things about a VTC4 and 5's and the disappointment was huge. I'm not very technical and thought it was only me and that I was just imagining they were kak. It would appear that they are not performing as they should.


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## Yiannaki

Rob Fisher said:


> Why did everyone keep quiet? I thought I was just being doff! I was so excited because I had heard so many good things about a VTC4 and 5's and the disappointment was huge. I'm not very technical and thought it was only me and that I was just imagining they were kak. It would appear that they are not performing as they should.


It's so weird that you're having such a bad experience with yours @Rob Fisher

I wonder if you just got b bad batch or something. My vtc 5's are the bomb. I go through 6 ml on a .67 Ω coil and they read 3.8v or so at the end of the day.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Alex

Rob Fisher said:


> Why did everyone keep quiet? I thought I was just being doff! I was so excited because I had heard so many good things about a VTC4 and 5's and the disappointment was huge. I'm not very technical and thought it was only me and that I was just imagining they were kak. It would appear that they are not performing as they should.


 
I have only had mine for a few days now. Still putting them though the paces. Although I can't help but come to the conclusion that:


Assuming they are genuine.
Battery Life is terrible.
Either a faulty batch.
Or they come from a questionable source. (ie. they have been used before in some way.)
Outcome, they are not acceptable.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Rob Fisher

Yiannaki said:


> It's so weird that you're having such a bad experience with yours @Rob Fisher
> 
> I wonder if you just got b bad batch or something. My vtc 5's are the bomb. I go through 6 ml on a .67 Ω coil and they read 3.8v or so at the end of the day.


 
Where did you buy yours from @Yiannaki?


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## Yiannaki

Rob Fisher said:


> Where did you buy yours from @Yiannaki?


I purchased then from VapeMob about a month or so ago.


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## Rob Fisher

Yiannaki said:


> I purchased then from VapeMob about a month or so ago.


 
Me too... I wonder if they have had different batches?


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## Alex

@Rob Fisher and @Yiannaki, They reason that @zadiac wanted my efests, was because he had the same poor experience regarding the performance of the two VTC5's he purchased. I decided to swop two of my 2500mah efests with him anyway, just to see for myself.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Yiannaki

Rob Fisher said:


> Me too... I wonder if they have had different batches?


Here's a close up pic of the code on mine. Maybe compare it to your ones?


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## Yiannaki

Alex said:


> @Rob Fisher and @Yiannaki, They reason that @zadiac wanted my efests, was because he had the same poor experience regarding the performance of the two VTC5's he purchased. I decided to swop two of my 2500mah efests with him anyway, just to see for myself.


What are your findings so far @Alex?


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## Alex

Yiannaki said:


> Here's a close up pic of the code on mine. Maybe compare it to your ones?


mine is the same.


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## Yiannaki

Alex said:


> mine is the same.


Are you also experiencing poor battery life like @Rob Fisher? 

I bought for @Grayz at the same time I got mine and he hasn't had any issues either.


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## Alex

Yiannaki said:


> Are you also experiencing poor battery life like @Rob Fisher?
> 
> I bought for @Grayz at the same time I got mine and he hasn't had any issues either.


I have seen a big improvement today, after picking up some of that stuff from fuchs. No more sparking on the positive connection when firing the battery.

http://www.ecigssa.co.za/threads/dielectric-grease-vs-conductive-grease.4983/

Reactions: Like 1


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## Chop007

capetocuba said:


> Wow and we were assured these were authentic. Hope it's just a dud one?


Good news for all who do not like VTC5, Sony has informed us they do not want their batteries in vaping devices. Even our OEM supplier cannot get them for us anymore. YES they are authentic, so unfortunately we will not stock them anymore unless we can travel to Sony and talk them into giving us some. 

It always amazes me how this known vapers like Riptrippers, etc etc always advocate VTC5 and then here on ecigssa, even though our batteries are the real deal, more knowledgeable folks here simply diss the battery no matter what. Anyways, well, your wishes have come true, no more VTC 5's. 

Since the Google experts like to copy and paste from other forums and use other folks investigations to back their viewpoints, I thought I would paste a link to this review of the 'Top 10 High drain batteries', which both back previous arguments and disregard some aspects: FYI: http://ecigarettereviewed.com/top-10-high-drain-batteries-for-sub-ohm-vaping

My question is a rather simple one. If you are not happy with VTC5's. If you consider Efest batteries to be re wrapped . Then what batteries would you like to use in your vaping devices? It seems to me that every time we try to cater to this community, bringing in the batteries that you desire and speak so highly of, and the devices, when we get them, you go through tremendous lengths to disrespect the product that we went through tremendous pains to get the original products in?

Take this post with a pinch of salt. But we are vapers that use our batteries daily, we use every device, daily,we put them through rigorous tests. To simply take a picture of a Sony VTC 5 in a charger and state that it is a 'lemon' without first contacting the supplier and giving us a chance to either exchange or test the particular battery, is simply rude. We would gladly inspect and exchange if necessary. Maybe charge it at 1.0A and see if it charges faster. Also, was this it's first charge cycle? 

Anyways, whatever. You let me know what batteries you would like in your vaping devices and we will get those, literally any batteries,w e can get, and only the ORIGINALS, we have the contacts.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 2


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## Yiannaki

Chop007 said:


> Good news for all who do not like VTC5, Sony has informed us they do not want their batteries in vaping devices. Even our OEM supplier cannot get them for us anymore. YES they are authentic, so unfortunately we will not stock them anymore unless we can travel to Sony and talk them into giving us some.
> 
> It always amazes me how this known vapers like Riptrippers, etc etc always advocate VTC5 and then here on ecigssa, even though our batteries are the real deal, more knowledgeable folks here simply diss the battery no matter what. Anyways, well, your wishes have come true, no more VTC 5's.
> 
> Since the Google experts like to copy and paste from other forums and use other folks investigations to back their viewpoints, I thought I would paste a link to this review of the 'Top 10 High drain batteries', which both back previous arguments and disregard some aspects: FYI: http://ecigarettereviewed.com/top-10-high-drain-batteries-for-sub-ohm-vaping
> 
> My question is a rather simple one. If you are not happy with VTC5's. If you consider Efest batteries to be re wrapped . Then what batteries would you like to use in your vaping devices? It seems to me that every time we try to cater to this community, bringing in the batteries that you desire and speak so highly of, and the devices, when we get them, you go through tremendous lengths to disrespect the product that we went through tremendous pains to get the original products in?
> 
> Take this post with a pinch of salt. But we are vapers that use our batteries daily, we use every device, daily,we put them through rigorous tests. To simply take a picture of a Sony VTC 5 in a charger and state that it is a 'lemon' without first contacting the supplier and giving us a chance to either exchange or test the particular battery, is simply rude. We would gladly inspect and exchange if necessary. Maybe charge it at 1.0A and see if it charges faster. Also, was this it's first charge cycle?
> 
> Anyways, whatever. You let me know what batteries you would like in your vaping devices and we will get those, literally any batteries,w e can get, and only the ORIGINALS, we have the contacts.


 

Nooooo! 

Please tell me there is at least one more batch coming in


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## Chop007

Yiannaki said:


> Nooooo!
> 
> Please tell me there is at least one more batch coming in


We are planning a trip to Tokyo to go visit Sony and strike up a deal. Given the sever, negative, biased and uninformed press on this forum we may however take it offline and sell them in store only.


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## johan

Rob Fisher said:


> @johan is there a way to test this battery?


Yes batteries can be tested. The question: what do you need to be tested?

via Tapatalk

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Chop007

Yiannaki said:


> Nooooo!
> 
> Please tell me there is at least one more batch coming in


Send @Nimbus_Cloud a message via pm we can arrange something for you, they will however not be available online and we only have a few left. Sorry if this post seems like punting, just answering a forum members question.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Yiannaki

Chop007 said:


> We are planning a trip to Tokyo to go visit Sony and strike up a deal. Given the sever, negative, biased and uninformed press on this forum we may however take it offline and sell them in store only.


Not everyone is gonna be crazy about something @Chop007

I think that the Vtc5 generally has a great rep around here bud and wouldn't the fact that you guys are out of stock be testament to that?

Perhaps you could start a poll in the vape mob section to gauge the interest in the vtc 5?

I for one would be very sad if you guys had to stop bringing these in as I feel that they are an incredible battery. I couldn't imagine using something else, nor do I want to.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Rob Fisher

johan said:


> Yes batteries can be tested. The question: what do you need to be tested?


 
I want to test why the battery performs so badly compared to the eFest equivalent.

Reactions: Thanks 1


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## Rob Fisher

Yiannaki said:


> Here's a close up pic of the code on mine. Maybe compare it to your ones?


 
Same Same.


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## Rob Fisher

Chop007 said:


> Then what batteries would you like to use in your vaping devices? It seems to me that every time we try to cater to this community, bringing in the batteries that you desire and speak so highly of, and the devices, when we get them, you go through tremendous lengths to disrespect the product that we went through tremendous pains to get the original products in?


 
@Chop007 you missed the point completely... and before this denigrates into a flame war let me say I'm really happy Vape Mob is bringing in such a great selection of goodies for us to choose from. We appreciate it.

Now for my point. Why does the VTC5 perform so badly compared to the equivalent eFest? Simple question.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Al3x

Rob Fisher said:


> Same Same.


Mine is the same also


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## Chop007

Yiannaki said:


> Not everyone is gonna be crazy about something @Chop007
> 
> I think that the Vtc5 generally has a great rep around here bud and wouldn't the fact that you guys are out of stock be testament to that?
> 
> Perhaps you could start a poll in the vape mob section to gauge the interest in the vtc 5?
> 
> I for one would be very sad if you guys had to stop bringing these in as I feel that they are an incredible battery. I couldn't imagine using something else, nor do I want to.


No worries cuz just a bad morning for me, you know those days. Yeah, the VTC5 is rather an excellent battery for subohming, if folks need a battery to last 'Longer' then maybe it is not the battery for them. I just find it is so easy to copy paste from other forums to suite one's viewpoint, it is however a completely different story,actually testing the devices and going through hell and high water to cater for what the community requires. And then to be dismissed so easily on a public forum with such little information. Ag anyways, sometimes I guess one just has to laugh. I wish folks would realize that VapeMOB is on a completely different level and that we aim to bring only the best for all South African vapers. Guess you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink.

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1


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## Chop007

Rob Fisher said:


> @Chop007 you missed the point completely... and before this denigrates into a flame war let me say I'm really happy Vape Mob is bringing in such a great selection of goodies for us to choose from. We appreciate it.
> 
> Now for my point. Why does the VTC5 perform so badly compared to the equivalent eFest? Simple question.


You will find the answer you seek here: http://www.vapescores.com/vamped-batteries-amp-limit-confusion/ And no, not a flame war, simply substantiating a common viewpoint among knowledgeable vapers. Words like 'So badly' and 'performs like a lemon' make no sense to me in terms of battery functionality. What was the ohm of your coil, what device where you using the battery in? How many charge cycles did the battery undergo before your review? When comparing to the efest, at what charge cycle was the efest? A new Efest at it's 10th charge cycle will outperform a new VTC5 at it's 2nd charge cycle. It is all relative and terms like 'Lemon' and the battery performed 'so badly' can only lead to misinterpretation. 

It would be more conducive to a constructive review to firstly state your experiences with the battery in more scientific terms. Maybe even contact the vendor and discuss the issues you have with the product before dissing a single battery on a public forum? We have had ZERO complaints about our VTC5 batteries, ORIGINAL batteries. And then all of a sudden, the term 'Lemon' from a known and respected forum member leads all to think the VTC5's are not real. Seriously? This is my gripe, not a flame war, a real issue that stems from a lack of information. A VTC 5 will perform negatively according to human sensual based assertions. But does it really perform that badly or is it the user that is at fault. See my issue here? Or could it be that you got a 'dud' battery, which I highly doubt? How long did you use it before charging it? How do we know you did not discharge the battery to 2.6volts before putting it on charge? Did you know that a battery starts performing 'better' after a few charge cycles? Would you like a refund on that battery? We will gladly take it off your hands.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## johan

Rob Fisher said:


> I want to test why the battery performs so badly compared to the eFest equivalent.


 
Can do, I have brand new Efest 3100mAh batteries (haven't even charged them yet) to use for comparison tests.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Rob Fisher

johan said:


> Can do, I have brand new Efest 3100mAh batteries (haven't even charged them yet) to use for comparison tests.


 
Thanks @johan I'll send it to you!

Reactions: Agree 1 | Thanks 1


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## Al3x

Chop007 said:


> You will find the answer you seek here: http://www.vapescores.com/vamped-batteries-amp-limit-confusion/ And no, not a flame war, simply substantiating a common viewpoint among knowledgeable vapers. Words like 'So badly' and 'performs like a lemon' make no sense to me in terms of battery functionality. What was the ohm of your coil, what device where you using the battery in? How many charge cycles did the battery undergo before your review? When comparing to the efest, at what charge cycle was the efest? A new Efest at it's 10th charge cycle will outperform a new VTC5 at it's 2nd charge cycle. It is all relative and terms like 'Lemon' and the battery performed 'so badly' can only lead to misinterpretation.
> 
> It would be more conducive to a constructive review to firstly state your experiences with the battery in more scientific terms. Maybe even contact the vendor and discuss the issues you have with the product before dissing a single battery on a public forum? We have had ZERO complaints about our VTC5 batteries, ORIGINAL batteries. And then all of a sudden, the term 'Lemon' from a known and respected forum member leads all to think the VTC5's are not real. Seriously? This is my gripe, not a flame war, a real issue that stems from a lack of information. A VTC 5 will perform negatively according to human sensual based assertions. But does it really perform that badly or is it the user that is at fault. See my issue here? Or could it be that you got a 'dud' battery, which I highly doubt? How long did you use it before charging it? How do we know you did not discharge the battery to 2.6volts before putting it on charge? Did you know that a battery starts performing 'better' after a few charge cycles? Would you like a refund on that battery? We will gladly take it off your hands.


Hi, @Chop007 not sure if you are using a VTC5 or not, if you are or anybody can help me out 
I did some research after reading your comment and how many charge cycles would the vtc5 need approximately to perform at it's best, I have read that what you are saying is 100% and that any battery does not perform at it's best out the box, I charge mine every day and it does outperform other batteries at low sub ohm but dies very quickly and I can feel the difference in about 15 to 20 min. My happy place with sub ohm I have found is around 0.2 to 0.4. 
I am in no way dissing your company, It's just with all the hype with this battery I really expected a lot more from it. and am happy with the perfomance of the efests and the price tags also.


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## Silver

I am quite keen to give the VTC5's a bash
And put them through their paces.
Just haven't gotten round to ordering them yet.... so many other things keeping me busy...

I'd say I have a good idea how my Efests are performing regarding battery life - so a month with a VTC5 and I will be able to say whether its better or worse - from a battery life point of view. I am not a super sub-ohmer so won't be able to test their current drain capabilities, but from about 0.7 ohms up, I am keen to see for how long they deliver a decent punch.

I have gone through all these posts and I have a question for @Chop007 
*Are these VTC5 batteries still available or have they now been discontinued?*


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## johan

Rob Fisher said:


> Thanks @johan I'll send it to you!


 
Great, I think its high time for me to slam a test rig together and start testing various batteries. Just for the record: the results will be posted in this *public forum* and everybody please take note that if a particular battery shows poor test results, *its the specific battery that performs poorly and not the vendor* that supplied them.

Reactions: Like 6 | Agree 4


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## TylerD

johan said:


> Great, I think its high time for me to slam a test rig together and start testing various batteries. Just for the record: the results will be posted in this *public forum* and everybody please take note that if a particular battery shows poor test results, *its the specific battery that performs poorly and not the vendor* that supplied them.


That will be awesome @johan .
@Chop007 this is a public forum and everybody have their right to call a battery what the hell ever they want. Lemon, cell, piece of .., what ever.

Reactions: Agree 5 | Funny 2


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## Derick

johan said:


> Can do, I have brand new Efest 3100mAh batteries (haven't even charged them yet) to use for comparison tests.


How do you test the batteries @johan ?


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## Chop007

Some information that may be of use: http://www.sun-vapers.com/sony-us18650vtc3-30a-vs-efest-30a-shootout-detailed-comparison/

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Chop007

TylerD said:


> That will be awesome @johan .
> @Chop007 this is a public forum and everybody have their right to call a battery what the hell ever they want. Lemon, cell, piece of .., what ever.


Agreed and I have the full right to challenge unsubstantiated claims no matter who they come from.

Reactions: Agree 4 | Funny 3


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## capetocuba

Chop007 said:


> Agreed and I have the full right to challenge unsubstantiated claims no matter who they come from.


Did you even read what @Rob Fisher had to say? This was in no way an attack on you or your company. He was merely pointing out that he was not happy with his batteries performance. Nobody said yours were fake either, only suggesting that they could possibly be duds.

Reactions: Agree 3 | Funny 1


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## Chop007

johan said:


> Great, I think its high time for me to slam a test rig together and start testing various batteries. Just for the record: the results will be posted in this *public forum* and everybody please take note that if a particular battery shows poor test results, *its the specific battery that performs poorly and not the vendor* that supplied them.


That would be AWESOME thank you so much. That is actually a brilliant idea, then we can maybe have a post, stating the battery, vendor and test results, so we can see once and for all what is going for what and base our assumptions on pure scientific fact and not hearsay from other forums. Thank you so much. Let me know if you need some batteries we will gladly send you a free batch of all our batteries that we have stock of. 

Lets also get batteries from all over the world and decide what are the 'best' batteries for our various applications. We will do the sourcing, let us see what else is out there? And bring South African vapers only the best.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 2 | Funny 1


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## Nimbus_Cloud

Silver said:


> I am quite keen to give the VTC5's a bash
> And put them through their paces.
> Just haven't gotten round to ordering them yet.... so many other things keeping me busy...
> 
> I'd say I have a good idea how my Efests are performing regarding battery life - so a month with a VTC5 and I will be able to say whether its better or worse - from a battery life point of view. I am not a super sub-ohmer so won't be able to test their current drain capabilities, but from about 0.7 ohms up, I am keen to see for how long they deliver a decent punch.
> 
> I have gone through all these posts and I have a question for @Chop007
> *Are these VTC5 batteries still available or have they now been discontinued?*


 
Sony has released an unofficial statement that they do not wish to be associated with vaping and that their batteries were never intended for this use. They will most likely still manufacture VTC5's but they will not be released from sony unless for verified use which means that original VTC5's will be phased out as they sell out. We have a few still available in store (As our online store is a separate entity from our Brick & Mortar stores). 

On Another note, I use VTC5's and VTC4's exclusively in my mech mod setups and efests in my eVic. Why? Because my all day vape is a 0.15ohm build and I trust the VTC5 more than any other battery at that level of Sub ohm. The Efests seem to drain slighter slower which may have something to do with the discharge rate of the batteries.(We have concluded that Sony has a much higher maximum discharge rate).

I will use fully charged batteries for an hour each in my eVic today and see what the battery percentage is at the end of that hour and report back.

Reactions: Like 2 | Thanks 2


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## Chop007

capetocuba said:


> Did you even read what @Rob Fisher had to say? This was in no way an attack on you or your company. He was merely pointing out that he was not happy with his batteries performance. Nobody said yours were fake either, only suggesting that they could possibly be duds.


I call a spade, a spade and am not a kiss %%sss. This is the same old story just repeating itself. A suggestion on a public forum from a respected member is just as direct as an insinuation. One should use great power with great responsibility. 'Lemon' is a colorful description but I would at least require a more detailed and discretionary description of the specific issue. Strange that it is also always the same folks. 

Anyways all mellows we are totally off point here. I agree with what @johan said and that is the logical way forward. But I stand behind my product all the way since I know what it took to get it in and I know they are the real deal. Everyone is entitled to their opinions and thank you for yours.


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## johan

Derick said:


> How do you test the batteries @johan ?


 
What I want to test (after 3 cycles of full charge and full discharge on a calibrated charger):

1. Voltage drop under various loads (0.5Ω up to 1.0Ω) - calibrated Volt meter across the terminals while applying a current sink (variable load) for 10 seconds on the battery under test and log the measured voltage in 1 second intervals.
2. Voltage drop graph - connect variable load at intervals of 10 seconds ON, 10 seconds OFF, until the battery under test reached 3.3V (under zero load). Logging Voltage drop as well as time and current.
3. Internal resistance if necessary
4. Maximum current - adjust variable load until Voltage drop to 2.5V or battery temperature rise more than 10°C

For my own curiosity I would like to know which battery will give me the longest vape time at a certain load with the least Voltage drop.

Anything else just let me know.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 3


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## Derick

johan said:


> What I want to test (after 3 cycles of full charge and full discharge on a calibrated charger):
> 
> 1. Voltage drop under various loads (0.5Ω up to 1.0Ω) - calibrated Volt meter across the terminals while applying a current sink (variable load) for 10 seconds on the battery under test and log the measured voltage in 1 second intervals.
> 2. Voltage drop graph - connect variable load at intervals of 10 seconds ON, 10 seconds OFF, until the battery under test reached 3.3V (under zero load). Logging Voltage drop as well as time and current.
> 3. Internal resistance if necessary
> 4. Maximum current - adjust variable load until Voltage drop to 2.5V or battery temperature rise more than 10°C
> 
> For my own curiosity I would like to know which battery will give me the longest vape time at a certain load with the least Voltage drop.
> 
> Anything else just let me know.


Cool - I like it 

I'd like to send you some of our 22650's and 18350's if you don't mind giving them a run through too (I think you have our 18650's already) - this is all efest - and if you want to unwrap them to show what's beneath that is cool too

Reactions: Like 1


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## johan

Derick said:


> Cool - I like it
> 
> I'd like to send you some of our 22650's and 18350's if you don't mind giving them a run through too (I think you have our 18650's already) - this is all efest - and if you want to unwrap them to show what's beneath that is cool too


 
Thanks Derick, will contact you once I've setup the rig. No need to unwrap them as the tests are not to prove fake or authentic. PS. Yes I do have your 18650's.


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## Rob Fisher

Chop007 said:


> What was the ohm of your coil, what device where you using the battery in? How many charge cycles did the battery undergo before your review? When comparing to the efest, at what charge cycle was the efest? A new Efest at it's 10th charge cycle will outperform a new VTC5 at it's 2nd charge cycle.


 
The coil is a 1,1Ω Micro coil on a new SL REO LP with gold contacts. Yes the VTC5 had less charge cycles than the eFests and it remains that way because after using the VTC5 a few times I was really disappointed with how long it lasted. My new eFests (which I think some of which I bought from Vape Mob as well) performed perfectly right out of the box.



Chop007 said:


> It would be more conducive to a constructive review to firstly state your experiences with the battery in more scientific terms.


 
There's my problem... I'm just a normal user and not an electronics expert at all so discussing the battery in scientific terms isn't really an option for me. As for discussing it with the vendor etc let me say I have made this statement a few times in the forums about how disappointed I was with the performance of the VTC5 and no experts came and said maybe I should wait till it's had a few cycles through it before comparing... and all my other batteries have performed 100% fine out of the box including the Fake AW's.



Chop007 said:


> This is my gripe, not a flame war, a real issue that stems from a lack of information. A VTC 5 will perform negatively according to human sensual based assertions. But does it really perform that badly or is it the user that is at fault. See my issue here?


 
OK the user is at fault and the VTC5 is performing negatively according to human sensual based assertions.



Chop007 said:


> Would you like a refund on that battery? We will gladly take it off your hands.


 
It was never about the money... it's about why a battery that is supposed to be the best on the planet is performing (albeit a non scientific human sensually based criteria) far worse than an eFest equivalent.

Bottom line is the VTC5 is not performing as one would expect and subsequent discussions with a couple of people who are experts have confirmed my "gut feel"...

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 1


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## Derick

johan said:


> Thanks Derick, will contact you once I've setup the rig. No need to unwrap them as the tests are not to prove fake or authentic. PS. Yes I do have your 18650's.


Cool

Yeah, was not thinking of fake vs authentic, was more about to see if it is a re-wrapped LG or whatever - I seem to remember seeing a post to that effect somewhere here


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## johan

Derick said:


> Cool
> 
> Yeah, was not thinking of fake vs authentic, was more about to see if it is a re-wrapped LG or whatever - I seem to remember seeing a post to that effect somewhere here


 
Roger that


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## Silver

johan said:


> What I want to test (after 3 cycles of full charge and full discharge on a calibrated charger):
> 
> 1. Voltage drop under various loads (0.5Ω up to 1.0Ω) - calibrated Volt meter across the terminals while applying a current sink (variable load) for 10 seconds on the battery under test and log the measured voltage in 1 second intervals.
> 2. Voltage drop graph - connect variable load at intervals of 10 seconds ON, 10 seconds OFF, until the battery under test reached 3.3V (under zero load). Logging Voltage drop as well as time and current.
> 3. Internal resistance if necessary
> 4. Maximum current - adjust variable load until Voltage drop to 2.5V or battery temperature rise more than 10°C
> 
> For my own curiosity I would like to know which battery will give me the longest vape time at a certain load with the least Voltage drop.
> 
> Anything else just let me know.


 
@johan, I think you hit the nail on the head big time with the following sentence:
"For my own curiosity I would like to know which battery will give me the longest vape time at a certain load with the least Voltage"

I do think that many vapers get confused (myself included) when it comes to batteries and their performance on their vaping gear. We are all striving to find out what is the *best battery*.

But I do think there are clearly two types of applications

- *high current application* - for those super sub-ohmers - e.g. going as low as 0.1 or 0.2 ohms - I am not one of those - but I assume the key here is to be able to safely draw massive current and deliver a monstrous vape. Vape time is probably less of a concern

- *more typical mech mod vaping -* around say 0.8 ohms to 1.2 ohms - Here the current draw is not nearly as much and for me at least the important thing is how long the battery will last. I am in this category and while I want a battery that delivers the required current, the focus for me is something that lasts long and is able to maintain its voltage for longer. Vape time is therefore very important.

It's easy to confuse the above two. And for this reason, I don't think there is a "best battery" overall. I am no battery expert but I suspect that the two areas above are also somewhat inversely related.

Instead, I think there is a best battery for each application. I will support your testing efforts to improve our understanding and better select the right battery for our application.

Reactions: Agree 7


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## Gazzacpt

@johan I would love to see that test rig in action I vote for videos . Just posting graphs is not going to cut it I'm afraid.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2


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## johan

Gazzacpt said:


> @johan I would love to see that test rig in action I vote for videos . Just posting graphs is not going to cut it I'm afraid.


 
Then someone needs to do the video thing while one of my techies or I do the testing, I am not going to try and record videos while doing the tests (which will take up to 4 hours per battery), sorry bud.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Derick

Silver said:


> @johan, I think you hit the nail on the head big time with the following sentence:
> "For my own curiosity I would like to know which battery will give me the longest vape time at a certain load with the least Voltage"
> 
> I do think that many vapers get confused (myself included) when it comes to batteries and their performance on their vaping gear. We are all striving to find out what is the *best battery*.
> 
> But I do think there are clearly two types of applications
> 
> - *high current application* - for those super sub-ohmers - e.g. going as low as 0.1 or 0.2 ohms - I am not one of those - but I assume the key here is to be able to safely draw massive current and deliver a monstrous vape. Vape time is probably less of a concern
> 
> - *more typical mech mod vaping -* around say 0.8 ohms to 1.2 ohms - Here the current draw is not nearly as much and for me at least the important thing is how long the battery will last. I am in this category and while I want a battery that delivers the required current, the focus for me is something that lasts long and is able to maintain its voltage for longer. Vape time is therefore very important.
> 
> It's easy to confuse the above two. And for this reason, I don't think there is a "best battery" overall. I am no battery expert but I suspect that the two areas above are also somewhat inversely related.
> 
> 
> Instead, I think there is a best battery for each application. I will support your testing efforts to improve our understanding and better select the right battery for our application.


 
Definitely agree @Silver - but I think sub-Ohming can also be divided into two categories - I mean at 0.4Ohm (and 3.7V) you are not even drawing 10 Amps

So there is sub-Ohming and Serious Sub-Ohming

Reactions: Agree 4


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## Nimbus_Cloud

Silver said:


> @johan, I think you hit the nail on the head big time with the following sentence:
> "For my own curiosity I would like to know which battery will give me the longest vape time at a certain load with the least Voltage"
> 
> I do think that many vapers get confused (myself included) when it comes to batteries and their performance on their vaping gear. We are all striving to find out what is the *best battery*.
> 
> But I do think there are clearly two types of applications
> 
> - *high current application* - for those super sub-ohmers - e.g. going as low as 0.1 or 0.2 ohms - I am not one of those - but I assume the key here is to be able to safely draw massive current and deliver a monstrous vape. Vape time is probably less of a concern
> 
> - *more typical mech mod vaping -* around say 0.8 ohms to 1.2 ohms - Here the current draw is not nearly as much and for me at least the important thing is how long the battery will last. I am in this category and while I want a battery that delivers the required current, the focus for me is something that lasts long and is able to maintain its voltage for longer. Vape time is therefore very important.
> 
> It's easy to confuse the above two. And for this reason, I don't think there is a "best battery" overall. I am no battery expert but I suspect that the two areas above are also somewhat inversely related.
> 
> 
> Instead, I think there is a best battery for each application. I will support your testing efforts to improve our understanding and better select the right battery for our application.


 
I could not agree more. Just like with juice, everyone will prefer a different battery based on their usage. I know that at 0.15 My battery is not going to perform its best for longer than an hour or so as once it goes under 4v I don't see the point. Therefore I cycle between 4 VTC5's. It's a pian but my preferred method. If I was gaping at higher ohms and looking for a longer lasting Vape, I would probably go for the 3100mah efest as it has a higher capacity yet a lower Amp rating.

If there was one amazing battery that fitted every bodies needs perfectly it would probably have to be a 50000mah 200A VTC200 or something to only be invented in the future

Until then, We just have to try out different options and see what suits us best.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Derick

Nimbus_Cloud said:


> I could not agree more. Just like with juice, everyone will prefer a different battery based on their usage. I know that at 0.15 My battery is not going to perform its best for longer than an hour or so as once it goes under 4v I don't see the point. Therefore I cycle between 4 VTC5's. It's a pian but my preferred method. If I was gaping at higher ohms and looking for a longer lasting Vape, I would probably go for the 3100mah efest as it has a higher capacity yet a lower Amp rating.
> 
> If there was one amazing battery that fitted every bodies needs perfectly it would probably have to be a 50000mah 200A VTC200 or something to only be invented in the future
> 
> Until then, We just have to try out different options and see what suits us best.


This might be the answer one day 
http://www.gizmag.com/dual-carbon-fast-charging-battery/32121/

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Riaz

Nimbus_Cloud said:


> I could not agree more. Just like with juice, everyone will prefer a different battery based on their usage. I know that at 0.15 My battery is not going to perform its best for longer than an hour or so as once it goes under 4v I don't see the point. Therefore I cycle between 4 VTC5's. It's a pian but my preferred method. If I was gaping at higher ohms and looking for a longer lasting Vape, I would probably go for the 3100mah efest as it has a higher capacity yet a lower Amp rating.
> 
> If there was one amazing battery that fitted every bodies needs perfectly it would probably have to be a 50000mah 200A VTC200 or something to only be invented in the future
> 
> Until then, We just have to try out different options and see what suits us best.


hi @Nimbus_Cloud 

do you mind posting a pic here of your 0.15 ohm coil

ive recently ventured into cloud blowing (alone at home LOL) and am looking at trying different coils.


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## Silver

Battery technology has not kept up the pace with other technological developments.

Let's hope that the big money going into electric cars (which require better battery technology) will fund the development in batteries such that we will get a battery that can keep us vaping for days on end

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## zadiac

Chop007 said:


> Good news for all who do not like VTC5, Sony has informed us they do not want their batteries in vaping devices. Even our OEM supplier cannot get them for us anymore. YES they are authentic, so unfortunately we will not stock them anymore unless we can travel to Sony and talk them into giving us some.
> 
> It always amazes me how this known vapers like Riptrippers, etc etc always advocate VTC5 and then here on ecigssa, even though our batteries are the real deal, more knowledgeable folks here simply diss the battery no matter what. Anyways, well, your wishes have come true, no more VTC 5's.
> 
> Since the Google experts like to copy and paste from other forums and use other folks investigations to back their viewpoints, I thought I would paste a link to this review of the 'Top 10 High drain batteries', which both back previous arguments and disregard some aspects: FYI: http://ecigarettereviewed.com/top-10-high-drain-batteries-for-sub-ohm-vaping
> 
> My question is a rather simple one. If you are not happy with VTC5's. If you consider Efest batteries to be re wrapped . Then what batteries would you like to use in your vaping devices? It seems to me that every time we try to cater to this community, bringing in the batteries that you desire and speak so highly of, and the devices, when we get them, you go through tremendous lengths to disrespect the product that we went through tremendous pains to get the original products in?
> 
> Take this post with a pinch of salt. But we are vapers that use our batteries daily, we use every device, daily,we put them through rigorous tests. To simply take a picture of a Sony VTC 5 in a charger and state that it is a 'lemon' without first contacting the supplier and giving us a chance to either exchange or test the particular battery, is simply rude. We would gladly inspect and exchange if necessary. Maybe charge it at 1.0A and see if it charges faster. Also, was this it's first charge cycle?
> 
> Anyways, whatever. You let me know what batteries you would like in your vaping devices and we will get those, literally any batteries,w e can get, and only the ORIGINALS, we have the contacts.


 
No one attacked you or your shop @Chop007
They are simply disappointed with the performance of what they thought was a top notch battery. Myself included. I bought my VTC5's from you, but they don't perform as I expected and sold them to @Alex as he wanted them and took two Efests from him.
I have talked to other people not on this forum who also had the same experience with VTC5's and they did not buy them from you. So please don't think that we're attacking you, we're simply stating what we experienced

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 4 | Thanks 1


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## Metal Liz



Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 8


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## WHeunis

@Rob Fisher and others:
I notice you all have the same batch batteries. (WB24F)
Could just be a bad batch.

Heck, even my VTC4 gives me 10pm-10pm + 20-30% remaining.
Was running 1.1 Ohm for a day or two, those gave 30% remaining. Now, at 0.8 I am getting 20% remaining at the end of the day.

My Evic Supreme literally USB charges from 20% to full in around 70 mins.
80-90 mins if i use it while it's charging...

I have not used the Efests, but also feel no need to do so, as this VTC4 does it's job exactly the way I want it to.


VapeMob: Sorry to hop a wagon here, but that is not imo how you handle a situation.
NOBODY blamed you or said anything negative about you. Just so happens that exchanging info such as where purchased, when purchased, etc can lead us to a conclusion.
That conclusion might just be that its a bad batch.

If you really want to help, your responses could be far less hostile.

Reactions: Agree 3 | Funny 1


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## Chop007

WHeunis said:


> @Rob Fisher and others:
> I notice you all have the same batch batteries. (WB24F)
> Could just be a bad batch.
> 
> Heck, even my VTC4 gives me 10pm-10pm + 20-30% remaining.
> Was running 1.1 Ohm for a day or two, those gave 30% remaining. Now, at 0.8 I am getting 20% remaining at the end of the day.
> 
> My Evic Supreme literally USB charges from 20% to full in around 70 mins.
> 80-90 mins if i use it while it's charging...
> 
> I have not used the Efests, but also feel no need to do so, as this VTC4 does it's job exactly the way I want it to.
> 
> 
> VapeMob: Sorry to hop a wagon here, but that is not imo how you handle a situation.
> NOBODY blamed you or said anything negative about you. Just so happens that exchanging info such as where purchased, when purchased, etc can lead us to a conclusion.
> That conclusion might just be that its a bad batch.
> 
> If you really want to help, your responses could be far less hostile.


Thanks for the detailed info, that helps me a lot. I appreciate your explanation it makes loads of sense to us. Not to worry about the VTC5 we have removed them from the site and will not stock them again online. Any other battery that does not meet the forum's expectations and is considered to be a 'lemon', is branded as being 're wrapped' etc etc without detailed information and solid evidence regarding the suspect battery in question will also be removed. We DO NOT stock fake batteries and we go to extreme lengths and hard work to secure the originals, all our products are tested by vapers, for vapers. Far too much hearsay, gossip and false information can lead folks who want to enjoy their vaping safely to not going into mods at all.

What we do,we do for the community, for the love of vaping, not to be right nor king of the hill. We jump through major hoops to help every client, regardless of who they are or how they act. If anyone has an issue with one of our products they are more than welcome to contact us and we will go to the moon to satisfy their every need. This is not a hostile response, it is a response to protect vapers out there from false and sometimes biased information. It is extremely important to get the 'facts' straight before defaming another persons product. This is all we have to say on the subject. Upon solid test evidence we can take this further. We cannot and will not divulge our lucrative contacts within the vaping industry to satisfy those who have a preconceived negative connotation to a particular battery Thanks once again for your completely unbiased and balanced perspective. Even if a comment is negative, we always accept it when there is at least some constructive information as in your case.


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## Silver

@Chop007 I have a few questions for you - maybe you can clarify

1. Does this mean I cannot buy a VTC5 from you anymore? (i.e. via the website channel, since I am in JHB)

2. If this is the case, is the reason because of this thread?
Or are there other reasons? I must admit I am a bit confused because it was said before that Sony is disontinuing batteries for vaping- but your latest comment above says you won't sell them because they don't meet the "forum's expectations".

and then a follow up question - how does the "forum's expectations" get equated to a few people who have said they don't perform well - whereas a few others have said they perform very well? I would hardly say that this is the "forum's expectations".

Please can you help to clarify the situation for me.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 6


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## MarkK

Sony will be introducing methods to make it harder for any one vape related to get their hands on the batteries.
Chop is saying that due to sony & due to the general opinion towards vtc5's they will not go through the effort of stocking them again.

Not worth the trouble in my eyes

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Gazzacpt

Silver said:


> @Chop007 I have a few questions for you - maybe you can clarify
> 
> 1. Does this mean I cannot buy a VTC5 from you anymore? (i.e. via the website channel, since I am in JHB)
> 
> 2. If this is the case, is the reason because of this thread?
> Or are there other reasons? I must admit I am a bit confused because it was said before that Sony is disontinuing batteries for vaping- but your latest comment above says you won't sell them because they don't meet the "forum's expectations".
> 
> and then a follow up question - how does the "forum's expectations" get equated to a few people who have said they don't perform well - whereas a few others have said they perform very well? I would hardly say that this is the "forum's expectations".
> 
> Please can you help to clarify the situation for me.


 
I to am confused.

A few people said that they not entirely sold on the VTC5 with regards to their experience and the batteries get pulled for sale???
My VTC5's perform very very well. They are the only batteries I use for my silly builds.
If you going to stand behind your product then please do so but this is an odd response saying we have the product its good but we not going to sell it to you.

It does not make sense.

Reactions: Agree 4


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## Nimbus_Cloud

@Silver, I can only comment on a few of the points. But to clarify: At the moment we have 4 VTC5's left in stock, these are only available in store as the store runs as a seperate entity as far as stock is concerned. This is procedure with all of our products. They have been marked out of stock for awhile now, before this thread was revived, as the allocation to online was sold out. The reasoning behind possibly not stocking them in future is because if we were to do so, it would mean physically sending a representative to Sony and discussing with them the possibility of allowing us to continue these sales according to their safety rules etc. If vapers are unhappy with the quality of the batteries (which according to this thread, is a fair amount of people), then it would not be worthwhile or financially wise to go to those methods to stock this product. 

Them not being available online is in no way an attack on, or furthermore "punishment" for people located elsewhere, but merely procedure that has to be followed for all stock once it has been allocated. In certain cases we can attempt to make exceptions where this happens but with the batteries we are unable to do this at the moment according to management. If we see that people still want and are really needing Sony batteries, we will do our absolute best to provide them, as we have always done. We do our best to provide the best products and ensure we cater to everybodies needs. 

I hope this helps to clarify. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Reactions: Like 1


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## Nimbus_Cloud

@Gazzacpt please see above 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Silver

Nimbus_Cloud said:


> @Silver, I can only comment on a few of the points. But to clarify: At the moment we have 4 VTC5's left in stock, these are only available in store as the store runs as a seperate entity as far as stock is concerned. This is procedure with all of our products. They have been marked out of stock for awhile now, before this thread was revived, as the allocation to online was sold out. The reasoning behind possibly not stocking them in future is because if we were to do so, it would mean physically sending a representative to Sony and discussing with them the possibility of allowing us to continue these sales according to their safety rules etc. If vapers are unhappy with the quality of the batteries (which according to this thread, is a fair amount of people), then it would not be worthwhile or financially wise to go to those methods to stock this product.
> 
> Them not being available online is in no way an attack on, or furthermore "punishment" for people located elsewhere, but merely procedure that has to be followed for all stock once it has been allocated. In certain cases we can attempt to make exceptions where this happens but with the batteries we are unable to do this at the moment according to management. If we see that people still want and are really needing Sony batteries, we will do our absolute best to provide them, as we have always done. We do our best to provide the best products and ensure we cater to everybodies needs.
> 
> I hope this helps to clarify.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 
Ok thanks for the clarification. That helps for me to understand.

I will take it then that it is primarily a Sony issue - and secondly that a few members here have expressed dissatisfaction.


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## Andre

My 2 cents from up far in the snow clad mountains in Georgia. I have VTC5s, all acquired from VAPEMOB. And I love them green little monsters. In my totally unscientific opinion they far outperform my Efest 2500s, also bought from VAPEMOB. But know this - the responses from @Chop007 are not endearing at all and can, in my more informed opinion, only be damaging to the reseller in question.

Reactions: Agree 7


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## Paulie

Just a question ere but apparently vtc4/5 were made for older generations of laptop battery packs? Hmmm maby i might try buy a laptop at cash converter and strip  I think @devdev has a old sony laptop laying around hmm lol

Reactions: Agree 3 | Winner 1


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## Paulie

Ow sorry was meant to say i have a vapemob sony vtc 5 and i do get better life from my efests however we used mine at 0.4 -0.2 ohm coils (cloud blowing comp testing) for 1 week and that puppy never got hot!


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## WHeunis

paulph201 said:


> Just a question ere but apparently vtc4/5 were made for older generations of laptop battery packs? Hmmm maby i might try buy a laptop at cash converter and strip  I think @devdev has a old sony laptop laying around hmm lol


 
Only expensive battery packs used the VTC4/5's.
Most packs do use Sony cells, but mostly ICR.

Even if you do get some good batteries out of those packs though, you gotta realize that battery packs like those live HORRIBLE lives.
Especially laptop batteries go through the kind of abuse that any battery expert would tell you, is borderline criminal.

Being so close to that amount of heat is not good for the life of a battery, and anything you get out of there is gonna be near useless.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Chop007

I would personally like to give my apologies to @Rob Fisher for jumping on his post and using it as a stepping stone for many uninformed posts about VapeMOB products. I consider you to be a good friend, a true gentleman, a brilliant mellow fisherman and I love and respect you greatly. My attack on your post was uncalled for and I take full unconditional responsibility for it. Been under loads of pressure lately and that is not an excuse for my angry comments. I am more used to sailing the oceans than dealing with human beings or, more to the point, characters of human beings in cyberspace on a forum. So many things can get said and be misconstrued, it is a literal minefield.

I do however apologize from the bottom of my heart and will make up for it in any way I possibly can. I am going to take a break from this forum for a while and gather my composure. Please accept my sincere apologies for my over the top comments. You as always have my greatest respect and admiration, sorry for taking it all out on you.

Reactions: Like 8 | Winner 1


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## Rob Fisher

Apology graciously accepted @Chop007! I know how heated discussions can be on the forums sometimes and how we try to remain loyal to our businesses and products. I think where there is passion there is always bound to be the odd small flame war... and passion is what it's all about.

Reactions: Like 5 | Agree 2


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## Derick

I thought I'd say something here in defence and maybe solidarity with @Chop007 

Most of us (vendors) are small businesses that we built up from nothing with blood sweat and tears (lots and lots of tears) so it is kind of an occupational hazard that if something even mildly negative is said about our products, that we feel that it is a personal attack.

Especially if we went through great lengths and huge personal sacrifice to get the product to you guys. The business is our children and the products our grand-kids and if you diss my offspring it IS going to get my guard up. (Justified or not)

Adding fuel to the flames is when we have to find out via a third party (the forum) when someone is unhappy with one of our kids 

So @Chop007 - good on you for apologizing, but I just wanted to say that I do understand and many many times have I hit the backspace key on this forum at the last minute 

To the rest of you guys - when you have an issue, concern or complaint about a product, you are free to tell whomever you want and post on any forum you desire, but you are going to get way better results if you just contact the vendor first. I doubt there is a vendor in here that would not happily swap out a product that you are even mildly dissatisfied with.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 6 | Winner 1


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## Chop007

Rob Fisher said:


> Apology graciously accepted @Chop007! I know how heated discussions can be on the forums sometimes and how we try to remain loyal to our businesses and products. I think where there is passion there is always bound to be the odd small flame war... and passion is what it's all about.


Thank you so much Rob I truly appreciate it. I think I may be loosing my marbles. Time to go do a bit of fishing, catch a surf. Sorry about everything I never meant to hurt you nor be such an $SS.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## Rob Fisher

Chop007 said:


> Thank you so much Rob I truly appreciate it. I think I may be loosing my marbles. Time to go do a bit of fishing, catch a surf. Sorry about everything I never meant to hurt you nor be such an $SS.


 
I so get it @Chop007! It's all in the past... I actually love your passion because without passion we have zero! Passion rocks!

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Yiannaki

:hug:

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1


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## Rob Fisher

@Derick I *so get it* on the building a business... I have been there, done that, and got that T-Shirt three times! 

Now just for a second go back and see how long I have been asking about the issue I was having with the batteries... this issue was not out of the blue. And just for the record... this forum aint third party... this is the first party... this is where the sales begin, grow and where feedback happens.

And I get the personal nature of a small business and the passion that goes with it. That's why @Chop007 and I will have a beer and chat about good times and laugh about this because I love his passion for the business... lessons learnt from all sides here.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 4


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## Derick

Rob Fisher said:


> @Derick I *so get it* on the building a business... I have been there, done that, and got that T-Shirt three times!
> 
> Now just for a second go back and see how long I have been asking about the issue I was having with the batteries... this issue was not out of the blue. And just for the record... this forum aint third party... this is the first party... this is where the sales begin, grow and where feedback happens.
> 
> And I get the personal nature of a small business and the passion that goes with it. That's why @Chop007 and I will have a beer and chat about good times and laugh about this because I love his passion for the business... lessons learnt from all sides here.


Passion is wonderful and can make you to awful things 

I guess, for me the forum feels third party because the transaction was between me and a customer, not between me and the forum, but I do agree, the forum plays an important role as do any other customer contact.


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## MarkK

http://www.kidneypuncher.com/battery-tests/

Reactions: Agree 1 | Thanks 1


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## MarkK

25R vs VTC5


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## KieranD

Derick said:


> I thought I'd say something here in defence and maybe solidarity with @Chop007
> 
> Most of us (vendors) are small businesses that we built up from nothing with blood sweat and tears (lots and lots of tears) so it is kind of an occupational hazard that if something even mildly negative is said about our products, that we feel that it is a personal attack.
> 
> Especially if we went through great lengths and huge personal sacrifice to get the product to you guys. The business is our children and the products our grand-kids and if you diss my offspring it IS going to get my guard up. (Justified or not)
> 
> Adding fuel to the flames is when we have to find out via a third party (the forum) when someone is unhappy with one of our kids
> 
> So @Chop007 - good on you for apologizing, but I just wanted to say that I do understand and many many times have I hit the backspace key on this forum at the last minute
> 
> To the rest of you guys - when you have an issue, concern or complaint about a product, you are free to tell whomever you want and post on any forum you desire, but you are going to get way better results if you just contact the vendor first. I doubt there is a vendor in here that would not happily swap out a product that you are even mildly dissatisfied with.


 
I can relate to this one! 

Well said @Derick and @Chop007 for apologising

Reactions: Like 1


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## crack2483

Now who's got the kitten group hug pic to post?

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## Rob Fisher



Reactions: Like 5


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## crack2483

Not sure if that's a group hug or group......

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## MarkK

rofl that a cat nap pack

Reactions: Funny 1


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