# Taste Sensitivity...



## Hardtail1969 (7/3/17)

Hi Guys,

Bit of a quandary...

I am diying, and have bought flavours...

i have yet to find a flavour that actually tastes like anything, although mint and menthol do give me the cools, and bubblegum does give me a sweet taste, and strawberries are smooth and sweet, i still have to have the taste of the actual thing...

I have tried rba's, drippers, tanks, etc... and changed mixes from 50/50 to full vg.

i can smell the concentrates in the bottles, but when i mix them in a diy, i cant really smell or taste much, i am using 2%-4% concentrates in my mixes.

i have upped and lowered my nic levels, i have tried a number of different ways of vaping....

and i still cannot seem to taste what everyone else is raving about.

does anyone have advice?


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## craigb (7/3/17)

Tfa flavours are typically mixed at about 7% for single flavours. Cap and FA and the rest at about 3% to 5%.

Could also just be you are interpreting the flavour molecules differerently? Do you ever eat artificially flavoured stuff and then disagree with others about what it tastes like?

Reactions: Useful 1


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## Feliks Karp (7/3/17)

How and how long are you steeping?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Hardtail1969 (7/3/17)

7%? Guess i can try and see how that works for me, thanks!

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## Hardtail1969 (7/3/17)

Steeping? I dont believe that it affects taste as much, but then i have not really tried to leave a juice for that long

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Reactions: Disagree 1


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## Feliks Karp (7/3/17)

Hardtail1969 said:


> Steeping? I dont believe that it affects taste as much, but then i have not really tried to leave a juice for that long
> 
> Sent from my SM-A700FD using Tapatalk



Even an over night steep can have a dramatic effect on the flavour, I would head to the DIY sub-forum and do more reading, plenty of knowledgeable folks there.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## craigb (7/3/17)

Hardtail1969 said:


> Steeping? I dont believe that it affects taste as much, but then i have not really tried to leave a juice for that long
> 
> Sent from my SM-A700FD using Tapatalk


Depending on the specific flavour it can make a huge difference. But IMO you should be able to taste the strawberry as a shake n vape. It will taste better after a few days, but should be there from the start.

How do you do with commercial juices? Any problems tasting them?


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## Hardtail1969 (7/3/17)

Feliks Karp said:


> Even an over night steep can have a dramatic effect on the flavour, I would head to the DIY sub-forum and do more reading, plenty of knowledgeable folks there.


Hmm.. i have done that, and not noticed anything major.. and i have read the diy forum... thanks, will try next mixup and leave one for a week or two and see

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## Hardtail1969 (7/3/17)

craigb said:


> Depending on the specific flavour it can make a huge difference. But IMO you should be able to taste the strawberry as a shake n vape. It will taste better after a few days, but should be there from the start.
> 
> How do you do with commercial juices? Any problems tasting them?


Even commercial ones i struggle with tasting.. 

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## craigb (7/3/17)

How long are you off the stinkies now? Maybe its a severe case of vapers fatigue?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Dietz (7/3/17)

Hardtail1969 said:


> Steeping? I dont believe that it affects taste as much, but then i have not really tried to leave a juice for that long
> 
> Sent from my SM-A700FD using Tapatalk


Hi @Hardtail1969 , Try experimenting with your % of the Mix. Also have a look at a few sites and notes on a specific Concentrate before using it to see whats the recommendations as some might require higher % than other, For example I mix my AM4A tobacco at 4% (As recommended) and its great but then 7 Leaves I have to make 8.4% as thats the recommended. Both tobacco, but different Flavors require Different %.

Steeping is DEFINITELY required for most Tobaccos and Dessert or Creamy type Juices. The flavors combine and mellow out with the steeping time. Something that tastes like total Crap on day 1 can be an amazing joose after a 2 or 3 week steep, depending on the recipe you used. I generally steep anything Tobacco or Dessert for no less than 2 weeks.

Also remember that Taste is Very subjective, so mix something using the Recommended %, but increase or Decrease these % on the next batch to match your required taste.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## Anneries (7/3/17)

craigb said:


> Maybe its a severe case of vapers fatigue?



That was my exact same thought.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Hardtail1969 (7/3/17)

craigb said:


> How long are you off the stinkies now? Maybe its a severe case of vapers fatigue?


Off the smokes for 9 months now.

Vapers tongue? 

Dunno about that, because other things taste fine to me, such as food and drink.

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## craigb (7/3/17)

I've had vapers fatigue a few times in my short vaping career. You end wish for a juice to taste crap, cos then you are tasting something.

Look around the forums, there's plenty of threads here and on the interwebs but the only real solution is time and patience.

What flavours are you trying?


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## Hardtail1969 (7/3/17)

craigb said:


> I've had vapers fatigue a few times in my short vaping career. You end wish for a juice to taste crap, cos then you are tasting something.
> 
> Look around the forums, there's plenty of threads here and on the interwebs but the only real solution is time and patience.
> 
> What flavours are you trying?


Trying any and all... i can taste a burnt coil, so i know what bad is, and take cinnamon red hot, i get the warmth, but not the full cinnamon flavour... 

A grape juice for instance... i get the sweet and very light scent of grape.. but not as strong as i expect it to be.

Perhaps i must try a 10% single flavour to see.

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Reactions: Agree 1


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## craigb (7/3/17)

Hardtail1969 said:


> Off the smokes for 9 months now.
> 
> Vapers tongue?
> 
> ...



Maybe mix up a nice, simple single flavour @ 5-7%.

Leave it to steep a few days.

Mix up a nice plain menthol to vape while your other juice is steeping.

Not a guaranteed solution, but maybe it can "reset" the senses. YMMV.


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## RichJB (7/3/17)

Vaper's tongue is nasty from what I've heard. Not painful or anything but just frustrating not being able to taste your juice. As with most other vaping cons, it's something I've never had. I think what might help me in that regard is that I vape at least ten different juices every day. So my palate keeps getting hit from different angles and doesn't settle into the rut that a single flavour would produce.

It also raises this ongoing question again about taste sensation in vaping, and why we get tired of juices very quickly yet we never got tired of the same brand of cigarette for 20 years of smoking. I can't recall hearing of anything like "smoker's tongue" where smokers could no longer taste their cigarettes. Sure, smokers have a reduced sense of taste, that is well known. But it doesn't fluctuate. For the entirety of the 37 years in which I smoked, cigarettes tasted consistently the same to me. I never once looked in puzzlement at my cigarette and thought "Wtf, I can't taste this anymore?"

There is definitely something weird going on with vaping and our taste sensation. Vaper's tongue, throat hit, nic harshness, some people tasting sweaty gym socks, cardboard, rubber or rotten onions where others are tasting delicious, juicy pineapple. Many mysteries still to be unraveled.

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## Kalashnikov (7/3/17)

Vape plain VG/PG for half a day. I promise once you switch to a flavoured juice you will def taste it

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## Hardtail1969 (7/3/17)

RichJB said:


> Vaper's tongue is nasty from what I've heard. Not painful or anything but just frustrating not being able to taste your juice. As with most other vaping cons, it's something I've never had. I think what might help me in that regard is that I vape at least ten different juices every day. So my palate keeps getting hit from different angles and doesn't settle into the rut that a single flavour would produce.
> 
> It also raises this ongoing question again about taste sensation in vaping, and why we get tired of juices very quickly yet we never got tired of the same brand of cigarette for 20 years of smoking. I can't recall hearing of anything like "smoker's tongue" where smokers could no longer taste their cigarettes. Sure, smokers have a reduced sense of taste, that is well known. But it doesn't fluctuate. For the entirety of the 37 years in which I smoked, cigarettes tasted consistently the same to me. I never once looked in puzzlement at my cigarette and thought "Wtf, I can't taste this anymore?"
> 
> There is definitely something weird going on with vaping and our taste sensation. Vaper's tongue, throat hit, nic harshness, some people tasting sweaty gym socks, cardboard, rubber or rotten onions where others are tasting delicious, juicy pineapple. Many mysteries still to be unraveled.


The reason cigs taste how they do, and why they dont change, is due to all the additives and chemicals used to make sure that it doesnt affect your taste whilst you are smoking...

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## RichJB (7/3/17)

Hardtail1969 said:


> The reason cigs taste how they do, and why they dont change, is due to all the additives and chemicals used to make sure that it doesnt affect your taste whilst you are smoking...



That's as may be but it still doesn't explain why vaping unlocks such extreme taste sensations in vapers. And it applies to nothing else that we eat or drink. Have you ever heard of a family sitting down to a Sunday roast and half of them go "Yummy, this roast beef is truly excellent" while the other half go "Eeeew, I'm getting a strong taste of burnt rubber!" 

Tastes vary and most people will have some foods they don't like. But if you have two people who both like a foodstuff and they eat exactly the same brand of that foodstuff, there will at worst be only a slight difference in their perception of it. Two vapers can both love blueberries, they can both vape the same brand of blueberry concentrate, and one is in raptures about how delicious it is while the other is almost barfing. We had it on this very forum when we did testing of Loco flavours. Ezekiel thought the blueberry was exceptionally good, everybody else found it repulsive. How does one explain this??

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## Hardtail1969 (7/3/17)

RichJB said:


> That's as may be but it still doesn't explain why vaping unlocks such extreme taste sensations in vapers. And it applies to nothing else that we eat or drink. Have you ever heard of a family sitting down to a Sunday roast and half of them go "Yummy, this roast beef is truly excellent" while the other half go "Eeeew, I'm getting a strong taste of burnt rubber!"
> 
> Tastes vary and most people will have some foods they don't like. But if you have two people who both like a foodstuff and they eat exactly the same brand of that foodstuff, there will at worst be only a slight difference in their perception of it. Two vapers can both love blueberries, they can both vape the same brand of blueberry concentrate, and one is in raptures about how delicious it is while the other is almost barfing. We had it on this very forum when we did testing of Loco flavours. Ezekiel thought the blueberry was exceptionally good, everybody else found it repulsive. How does one explain this??


Which is the reason i am stumped about my lack of taste in general when it comes to juices 

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## Kuhlkatz (7/3/17)

@Hardtail1969 , just a few questions that might help the peeps on here help you :

Which specific flavourings are you referring to ? 
While TFA and CAP may generally work well at around 8% to 10% for single flavours, CLY and other concentrated flavours at 10% will likely be so strong that even someone with Vapors Fatigue might 'enjoy' the nice chemical / floral taste.​
Do you have any other commercial jooses available to try as a benchmark ? 
If it is it only from your DIY jooses that you get no real flavour, it might be the lowish % of the mixes that is the cause. If commercial jooses also has no taste, it might well be overloaded senses.​

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## zandernwn (7/3/17)

Stoopid question, but is you nose blocked? 

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## Hardtail1969 (7/3/17)

Overloaded senses... possible, and nope no blocked nose

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## zandernwn (7/3/17)

Try fesh ginger, coffe beans, or strong mints, it sometimes help shock the palette back into action. Drink plenty of water.maybe share recipes you have done and we can see if you are mixing at the right strenghts

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Reactions: Agree 1


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## Caveman (7/3/17)

RichJB said:


> That's as may be but it still doesn't explain why vaping unlocks such extreme taste sensations in vapers. And it applies to nothing else that we eat or drink.



Not true, we do get used to certain tastes and start muting it. Personal example: I stopped drinking milk about 2 years ago, within a month of stopping drinking it, I found I couldn't handle the taste of it anymore, it tasted so off. So we definitely get used to certain tastes that we eat or drink every day, although not close to the extend that vaping does and there are probably a plethora of reasons for that, more concentrated taste, bigger coverage of taste buds, we vape a lot more than we eat (lol). Also remember that most foods we buy have a whole boat load of flavor enhancers, probably for this very reason, so that it always tastes consistent. 

As for explaining why we perceive vape flavors so differently, your guess is as good as mine

This sounds like vapors tongue to me, I get it from time to time, quick solution:
2 shots whisky,
1 shot lemon juice
throw 1 shot whiskey and 1 shot lemon juice both in your mouth and swirl swirl swirl.
Spit it out when it burns too much, the second shot whiskey is to get the nasty taste outta your mouth afterwards.


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## gdigitel (7/3/17)

Caveman said:


> This sounds like vapors tongue to me, I get it from time to time, quick solution:
> 2 shots whisky,
> 1 shot lemon juice
> throw 1 shot whiskey and 1 shot lemon juice both in your mouth and swirl swirl swirl.
> Spit it out when it burns too much, the second shot whiskey is to get the nasty taste outta your mouth afterwards.



Well, I think half a bottle of whisky will solve most of the taste problems. It might not make the vape taste better but you won't care so much. It has the same affect on the opposite sex though... which could lead to having to chew off your trapped arm under Sleeping Beauty(Slutty Betty) the next morning.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Caveman (7/3/17)

gdigitel said:


> Well, I think half a bottle of whisky will solve most of the taste problems. It might not make the vape taste better but you won't care so much. It has the same affect on the opposite sex though... which could lead to having to chew off your trapped arm under Sleeping Beauty(Slutty Betty) the next morning.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## CosmicGopher (8/3/17)

I have to laugh. Not at you, but at the wierdness of taste with different people. When my wife was pregnant she used to smell all kinds of things that weren't there. We'd be in the car and she'd pop up with 'I smell cheesecake!', and I'd have to remind her that 'honey, we're on the freeway'. Or she'd smell tacos in the bakery store. Once she swore she smelled kippers in church!

I don't know your age but I have read studies indicating that as we get older our sense of taste does diminish. After my 30+ years of smoking I don't think I taste some juice as well as others claim. To give you an example, I pretty much exclusively diy anymore and rarely buy shop juice, but last week I thought I'd treat myself, and bought this bottle of 'Wedding Crasher' juice by Sicboy, the reviews are all hysterical about how good this dripping juice is, supposed to be a carrot cake with cream cheese icing. So I tried it out on 3 different rdas known for being good flavor attys, the recoil with flavor cap being one of them. And you know, I tasted a little sweet, with the barest, barest hint of cream icing....that was it....bland, bland, bland to me. The barest whiff of any flavor! This was bottled 6 months ago, so it is steeped enough, and I believe this is a 70/30 juice. So, either I've lost some of my taste ability, or most folks just settle for store bought juice with minimal flavor, not knowing any better. (Suspect it might be a combo of the two.) As well, when I first started diy'ing, I seemed to need really strong flavors and had to up the percentages in my recipes, i don't have to do that anymore, so I've adjusted some. Hope this helps.

Reactions: Like 2 | Can relate 1


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## kev mac (8/3/17)

Hardtail1969 said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Bit of a quandary...
> 
> ...


While I enjoy DIY my creations taste good enough to vape but not exactly like say Caramel Cheesecake.However as far as commercial juice goes my can't live without juice is Cassadaga Cannoli be Nuts,and Crunchy Cream lemon donut is spot on.Loaded frosted donut taste as advertised.Some devises bring the flavor more than others and for an RTA the OBS Engine is my go to.RDAs are Hadaly,PlumeVeil and Sapor.I hope you find a scratch for your vape itch.


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## ivc_mixer (8/3/17)

Single flavour mixes, depending on which type you go for (i.e. CAP/TFA/CLY), etc. are typically between 5-7% (average). But once you start mixing various flavours, do not be afraid to go to 10, 15 and (gulp) 20%. Take Wayne from DIY or DIE fame, known as enyawreklaw on e-liquid-recipes, most of his recipes are >10%, almost averaging out at 15% and with Boardwalk having a 20% concentrate mixture, and this guy knows his stuff.

And steeping time is very, very important. I have personally not found a shake 'n' vape I have enjoyed even though many people have offered me recipes and I have tried a number of them as well. 
Fruits - 1 to 2 week steeping, maybe even 3 (if you add any creamy flavours such as Bavarian Cream to your fruits, then go to next)
Custards/creams - 3 to 4 week steep
Tobaccos - 4 to 6 week steep
And very importantly... shake it. Every day. If you can shake it twice daily, even better. The first two weeks are the most important, after that you can shake it once every 2nd day or so. Personally I keep shaking it until the day I take it out to be vaped.


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## zandernwn (8/3/17)

This goes to show how taste differs, I cringe whan I exceed 10% flavorings. I do at times but most of my mixes are in the 7-10 range depending on what flavor vendors I use

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## Caveman (8/3/17)

zandernwn said:


> This goes to show how taste differs, I cringe whan I exceed 10% flavorings. I do at times but most of my mixes are in the 7-10 range depending on what flavor vendors I use
> 
> Sent from my HUAWEI CRR-L09 using Tapatalk


That vastly depends on the flavoring, but even more so how much a person can taste a flavor, if you use, for example, only FlavorArt flavors, you can get away with a very complex recipe at 7%, if you are using only TFA or CAP, 7% total flavoring for a complex recipe is probably not gonna cut it, some are potent enough at 1% and others need to be at 5%. I guess the better your palate the heavier your wallet stays lol. Although, I guess there are some that can taste taste CAP and TFA at 1% perfectly fine. Taste is so inconsistent between us all.


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## Hardtail1969 (8/3/17)

Hi guys, thanks! This is the kind of information and insight that i was after. When i make my next mixes, i am going to try at 8% and a 10%. And see how that goes. 

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## ivc_mixer (8/3/17)

Generally, what I found, is that per flavour vendor the mixes are:
TFA - 7-8% (single) 5% (mix)
CAP - 7-8% (single) 5% (mix)
FW - 7-8% (single) 5% (mix)
FA - 2-3% (single) 1% (mix)
CLY - 2-3% (single) 1% (mix)

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## zandernwn (8/3/17)

I share that but it needs to be noted that not all tfa as example cam be used at 7%... tfa honey, cinnamon etc. But it is a good starting point for single flavor recipes

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## ivc_mixer (9/3/17)

I absolutely agree @zandernwn. If you were to mix TFA cinnamon or honey at 7% you either need a steel mouth or lungs or both. I was more talking about the general flavours, e.g. Strawberry, Blueberry, Custards, etc. And if you use CLY Marshmallow at more than 0.5% then be prepared to have a Ghostbusters experience and CLY Cinnamon Fireball.... 2 drops per 30ml as otherwise you are looking for trouble.

DIY can be cheaper than buying, but the initial outlay and getting to understand %'s and flavours, etc., that is where the true cost lies. And lest not forget the 'missing ingredient' quandary.

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## Kalashnikov (9/3/17)

Caveman said:


> Not true, we do get used to certain tastes and start muting it. Personal example: I stopped drinking milk about 2 years ago, within a month of stopping drinking it, I found I couldn't handle the taste of it anymore, it tasted so off. So we definitely get used to certain tastes that we eat or drink every day, although not close to the extend that vaping does and there are probably a plethora of reasons for that, more concentrated taste, bigger coverage of taste buds, we vape a lot more than we eat (lol). Also remember that most foods we buy have a whole boat load of flavor enhancers, probably for this very reason, so that it always tastes consistent.
> 
> As for explaining why we perceive vape flavors so differently, your guess is as good as mine
> 
> ...



Instruction not clear ... got fired for coming to work drunk

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## zandernwn (9/3/17)

haha an not to mention the coil sodomy that cinnamon will inflict

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## RichJB (9/3/17)

I'm surprised you guys rate Inw as having the same potency as the US brands. My experience has been that it's on par with FA. Although I haven't used a huge range of Inw, so maybe I've had the more potent ones.


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## ivc_mixer (10/3/17)

RichJB said:


> I'm surprised you guys rate Inw as having the same potency as the US brands. My experience has been that it's on par with FA. Although I haven't used a huge range of Inw, so maybe I've had the more potent ones.



I must admit, sadly so, that I have not had much experience with INW except for their Biscuit flavour (which is awesome). I am in the process of trying more of them soon as I would love to use some of their products in our range. Due to this I apologise for incorrectly stating a too high percentage and have since removed that from my comment.


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## zandernwn (10/3/17)

It really depends on the flavor. I knock milk & honer out the water when I mix it solo(6%) I like it that way altough most would say that is extremely high

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## zandernwn (10/3/17)

I dont think it was wrong at all. We are generalizing. 90% of flv is kak anyway. 

There is no hard and fast rule for %.

The onus is on the mixer to do single flavor testing and not take everything they read as gospel.



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## Silver (10/3/17)

Kuhlkatz said:


> @Hardtail1969 , just a few questions that might help the peeps on here help you :
> 
> Which specific flavourings are you referring to ?
> While TFA and CAP may generally work well at around 8% to 10% for single flavours, CLY and other concentrated flavours at 10% will likely be so strong that even someone with Vapors Fatigue might 'enjoy' the nice chemical / floral taste.​
> ...



Hi @Hardtail1969 
I may have missed it but what flavours are you using that you cannot taste?


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## Hardtail1969 (10/3/17)

Silver said:


> Hi @Hardtail1969
> I may have missed it but what flavours are you using that you cannot taste?


Mmm... pretty much all of 'em...


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## Silver (10/3/17)

Hardtail1969 said:


> Mmm... pretty much all of 'em...



Ah ok

Well then I suppose its probably as the guys mentioned on the thread - either not enough flavour - or a case of vapers tongue.

Incidentally, as Kuhlkatz asked in that post of his - do you taste any other commercial ready made juices?


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## RichJB (10/3/17)

zandernwn said:


> I dont think it was wrong at all. We are generalizing. 90% of flv is kak anyway.



Except that we're talking about Inw.


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## Hardtail1969 (10/3/17)

Ja, may be tongue issue, but then i will know soon as i finish the rest of my eliqs and mix up a newer stronger set with 8-10% flav. 

If that dont work, well then i will just try something else, but that whiskey and lemon business? 

I don't ruin 12yo whiskey that way, and for sure aint going to buy some rotgut firstwatch cheap stuff either...


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## Silver (10/3/17)

Hardtail1969 said:


> Ja, may be tongue issue, but then i will know soon as i finish the rest of my eliqs and mix up a newer stronger set with 8-10% flav.
> 
> If that dont work, well then i will just try something else, but that whiskey and lemon business?
> 
> I don't ruin 12yo whiskey that way, and for sure aint going to buy some rotgut firstwatch cheap stuff either...



@Hardtail1969 - can you taste commercial juices? Or also not getting taste on any of them?


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## Caveman (10/3/17)

Hardtail1969 said:


> Ja, may be tongue issue, but then i will know soon as i finish the rest of my eliqs and mix up a newer stronger set with 8-10% flav.
> 
> If that dont work, well then i will just try something else, but that whiskey and lemon business?
> 
> I don't ruin 12yo whiskey that way, and for sure aint going to buy some rotgut firstwatch cheap stuff either...


You're not ruining the whisky. I would recommend at least 18yo single malt for best effectiveness.  

Alternatively, use Vodka or Gin, both have the same effect.

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