# Nickel Builds



## Yiannaki (11/4/15)

Hey all

So I thought it would be a good idea to start sharing our nickle builds to see what everyone is using and to learn a few things along the way.

A good tip to wrap a nicely spaced coil is to parallel wrap it and then to remove one of the coils you have just wrapped. That way you will be left with an evenly spaced coil.

My current build 

Single coil
28g Nickel
3mm ID 
9 wraps
0.16 ohms

I first parallel wrapped my nickel with some 24g (I used this wire as I don't use 24g much anymore so I was prepared to it) 

As you'll see in the pic below, the first wrap looked a bit dodgy. So make an extra one you can pull off







With the second coil removed and the end wrap straightened out, I pushed the coil up against the back of the screwdriver to bring the wraps closer together. This was the result:






Next I installed the coil carefully onto the subtank mini rba base. Here I tried to wrap a little around the back of the screw on the base to get a better connection.

Instead of clipping the excess, I turned the wire in a circular motion so it could snap off. 

If you notice your coil moving around while doing this then you need to better secure the wire. If it's moving the coil around, you're not going to get a good connection. For temp control to work effectively you have to have a good connection.










I wicked the coil as I normally would wick my subtank but I used a little more caution as to not mess up my coil. Nickel is very soft and easily deformed.














I seem to have found my sweet spot with this build at 460F at 22w. 

I think the flavour is great, vapour production is decent and temp control seems to be working fine 

I hope this was helpful. Looking forward to seeing what builds everyone else is running on their temp control devices.

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 6 | Informative 2


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## Rob Fisher (11/4/15)

Thanks for that @Yiannaki! I took special note because my Yihi is on it's way as we speak! 

Question: I'm happy at the 1Ω to 1,2Ω mark on my Cyclones on the REO... I assume I can control the vape with the electronics and temperature sensing capabilities so a coil like you just made should also work for me?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Yiannaki (11/4/15)

Rob Fisher said:


> Thanks for that @Yiannaki! I took special note because my Yihi is on it's way as we speak!
> 
> Question: I'm happy at the 1Ω to 1,2Ω mark on my Cyclones on the REO... I assume I can control the vape with the electronics and temperature sensing capabilities so a coil like you just made should also work for me?


A pleasure Rob  

Yes I think it should work perfectly. Even though the resistance is stupidly low, it doesn't behave like a super low resistance kanthal build.

This build is mellow and relaxed. I think it would be perfectly fine. You could also try a smaller ID 2.5mm if you like but will have to add an extra wrap or two.

I ran a build as above in a doge RDA when @Paulie had given me his shark on loan and also thoroughly enjoyed it.


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## Mario (11/4/15)

Great Job Bro!!
Love the pics n build ,will be getting my nickel and other goodies soon from @KieranD  and will be following your steps 

My build will follow soon

Thanks!!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Yiannaki (11/4/15)

Mario said:


> Great Job Bro!!
> Love the pics n build ,will be getting my nickel and other goodies soon from @KieranD  and will be following your steps
> 
> My build will follow soon
> ...



Thanks bud  

Awesome stuff. Looking forward to seeing your build and hearing your thoughts. 

Don't forget to use the Atty lock feature on the new shark to lock in your initial resistance.


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## Rob Fisher (11/4/15)

Yiannaki said:


> A pleasure Rob
> 
> Yes I think it should work perfectly. Even though the resistance is stupidly low, it doesn't behave like a super low resistance kanthal build.
> 
> ...



Thanks John! Wow I so battle to call you John... Thanks @Yiannaki! Ahhh that feels better!

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Richard (11/4/15)

I try build mine to 0.16 as well (also my sweetspot) and I run my kanthal builds at +- 1.0 ohm. I find that if I set my watts to the same as what i set for my kanthal and there is very little (if any) difference in vape quality. However I do find the temp limiting provides a more constant vape experience.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Yiannaki (11/4/15)

Another one to look at @Rob Fisher 

Tried to wrap without using the parallel method.

Doge V2
Single Coil 
28g Nickel
2.5 ID
11 wraps
0.14 ohms
Rayon Wick

Running this one at 500f and 26 watts.

Reactions: Winner 3 | Thanks 1


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## GadgetFreak (11/4/15)

Yiannaki said:


> Thanks bud
> 
> Awesome stuff. Looking forward to seeing your build and hearing your thoughts.
> 
> Don't forget to use the Atty lock feature on the new shark to lock in your initial resistance.



@Yiannaki thanks for taking the time to show us your build.

When you say "lock initial resistance" i am just wondering why? Yes i do notice the resistance change now an then but would the resistance not change when the coil heats and cool off? Sorry I am waffling but nickel has me confused.


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## Yiannaki (11/4/15)

GadgetFreak said:


> @Yiannaki thanks for taking the time to show us your build.
> 
> When you say "lock initial resistance" i am just wondering why? Yes i do notice the resistance change now an then but would the resistance not change when the coil heats and cool off? Sorry I am waffling but nickel has me confused.



If you're using a tank for example and you remove the tank to refill, and its standing temperature changes, the board will not re-read the resistance if Atty lock is on. 

If you were to leave Atty lock off when removing and putting the tank back on after filling, the board could re read the resistance differently. 

If the tank has warmed up, the board will have an incorrect base reading for it and then the temp control will not be accurate.

Does that make any sense? Lol. Trying to find the correct way to explain it easily.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## GadgetFreak (11/4/15)

Yiannaki said:


> If you're using a tank for example and you remove the tank to refill, and its standing temperature changes, the board will not re-read the resistance if Atty lock is on.
> 
> If you were to leave Atty lock off when removing and putting the tank back on after filling, the board could re read the resistance differently.
> 
> ...



Okay @Yiannaki I think I got this. Initial resistance is our correct resistance, so lock it or else every time the temp changes around the coil the chip is going to try and fire at a different wattage?


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## Kaizer (16/4/15)

Im not sure if there is a thread already for Nickel wire builds on RTA's - if so, please move this.

I made my first Nickel build on the Lemo last night and Im not sure if it is done correctly. 



10 wraps with a 2.5mm ID. It worked out to 0.26 Ohms. Is this resistance too high? I see in YouTube videos that their builds sit at around 0.1ish. Is this temperature sensing feature better suited for resistances lower than 0.2? Would love to get your input please.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Andre (16/4/15)

Here is the thread to be moved to mods/admins: http://www.ecigssa.co.za/nickel-builds.t10558/
Sorry, no advice from me @Kaizer - above my pay grade at this stage.


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## Kaizer (16/4/15)

Thanks @Andre . I will go through that thread. Maybe the answers are there already.


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## free3dom (16/4/15)

@Paulie please advise


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## Paulie (16/4/15)

Kaizer said:


> Im not sure if there is a thread already for Nickel wire builds on RTA's - if so, please move this.
> 
> I made my first Nickel build on the Lemo last night and Im not sure if it is done correctly.
> 
> ...




Hi Kaizer,
From My understanding it depends on the device that you have but since nickel NI 200 has such a low resistance (even though they say it 0 resistance) Its important to get it to 0.1 -0.2 range. The higher means more wrapps and therefore most people battle with the space in the atty. From what i see you have built a great coil and it should work but i think it would be better the closer you get it to the 0.1 recommend build resistance.

Reactions: Like 1 | Thanks 1


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## Yiannaki (16/4/15)

I have merged your thread into the Nickle builds thread @Kaizer 

In regard to your question regarding resistance of your build. The resistance seems a little high if you're using 28G Nickle

I built a similar coil on my doge, and it came out to 0.14. My advice would be to :

- Check your leads are making proper contact with your posts.
- Leave the tank/atty off of your Rdna40 in a room with a normal temperature. I.E not too warm or col.
- Put the atty back on the device and select + (new coil)

PS with regard to ideal nickle resistance, i think it would be between 0.2 and 0.1. I have done some reading on ecf and some seem to enjoy it above 0.2.

Hope this helps man

Just shout if you have any more questions

Reactions: Like 1 | Thanks 1


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## Kaizer (16/4/15)

I have another question. Is it normal for the resistance to jump around when firing the device? Im using the Vapor Shark version 5. Before pressing the fire button, the resistance stands at 0.27. While pressing the fire button, the resistance goes up to 0.34 ohms and moves around. On the next fire, it starts again at 0.27 and goes up. Is this normal, or is my wire not connecting properly in there?


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## Yiannaki (16/4/15)

Kaizer said:


> I have another question. Is it normal for the resistance to jump around when firing the device? Im using the Vapor Shark version 5. Before pressing the fire button, the resistance stands at 0.27. While pressing the fire button, the resistance goes up to 0.34 ohms and moves around. On the next fire, it starts again at 0.27 and goes up. Is this normal, or is my wire not connecting properly in there?



I know Rip Trippers mentioned that nickle builds have a rest reading resistance and then when firing, the resistance will change when the coil heats up.

I was running nickle in the V4 Shark i borrowed from @Paulie and not once did i notice this happening. I would fire the device and just look at the screen, waiting for the resistance to change but it never did.

Even on my v5 shark, i have tested this and again there was no change in the coil resistance. 

I would recommend rebuilding your coil and starting from scratch. 

Judging by your pic, you're using a lemo. Try this coil from Rip Trippers

Reactions: Like 1 | Thanks 1


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## Paulie (16/4/15)

Kaizer said:


> I have another question. Is it normal for the resistance to jump around when firing the device? Im using the Vapor Shark version 5. Before pressing the fire button, the resistance stands at 0.27. While pressing the fire button, the resistance goes up to 0.34 ohms and moves around. On the next fire, it starts again at 0.27 and goes up. Is this normal, or is my wire not connecting properly in there?




Yeah from my experience if it keeps jumping around it could be down to bad contact or spacing of the coil. Especially when you add the wick to it as it could mess it up! Make sure you give the coil a good torch before so it can keep some of the structure in place.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Thanks 1


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## Rob Fisher (25/4/15)

I've got so many new tanks and bottles of juice to play with but my throat is really stuffed with this flu and I cough with anything other than Tropical Ice and I pretty much can't taste diddly!




But after watching a few reviews of the SX Mini and Lemo 2 builds I thought I would try another build and this time my coil came out at 0,09Ω. Wicked it up, registered the coil and juiced the tank... first vape needed something more so I upped the Joules to 20J and the temp up to to 380F... cloud production is awesome... airflow of the Lemo 2 is really crap and a massive disappointment!




Unfortunately I can't comment on taste at all till the throat is better! Very frustrating! Because I have these juices to test and they could all be ADV's!

Reactions: Like 2


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## Mario (25/4/15)

Yiannaki said:


> Hey all
> 
> So I thought it would be a good idea to start sharing our nickle builds to see what everyone is using and to learn a few things along the way.
> 
> ...



weldone!! @Rob Fisher and @Yiannaki @Kaizer
thank for sharing this as my nickel will be arrive Wednesday.
Will be sending my build soonest

Reactions: Like 1


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## zadiac (25/4/15)

Yiannaki said:


> Hey all
> 
> A good tip to wrap a nicely spaced coil is to parallel wrap it and then to remove one of the coils you have just wrapped. That way you will be left with an evenly spaced coil.



Another tip is to wrap a single strand as uneven as you like and after that just push the whole coil against the back of the screwdriver. It will even out the spaces very nicely

Reactions: Like 1 | Thanks 1


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## Jakey (25/4/15)

Difference between ni200 and pure nickel?

Reactions: Like 1


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## johan (25/4/15)

Jakey said:


> Difference between ni200 and pure nickel?



Answer: *the spelling* 

Ni 200 is a 99.6% pure wrought nickel alloy. Sold under the brand names Nickel Alloy Ni-200, Commercially Pure Nickel, and Low Alloy Nickel. I don't think you get 100% pure nickel wire, but I might be wrong.

Ni 200 is made almost exclusively from nickel (at least 99%), it also contains trace amounts of other chemical elements including:

Fe .40% max
Mn .35% max
Si .35% max
Cu .25% max
C .15% max

source: http://continentalsteel.com/nickel-...00-commercially-pure-nickel-low-alloy-nickel/

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 5


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## Yiannaki (25/4/15)

Forgot to share some pics of my build fro, a few days ago on the subtank mini.

Single Coil
28g Nickle
2.5mm ID
9 wraps
0.13ohms

A better build than the outgoing 3.0mm ID. Flavour is crisper. 

Running this at 490 F between 23 - 30 watts depending on my mood. 

Happy days!

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Yiannaki (25/4/15)

Rob Fisher said:


> I've got so many new tanks and bottles of juice to play with but my throat is really stuffed with this flu and I cough with anything other than Tropical Ice and I pretty much can't taste diddly!
> 
> View attachment 26003
> 
> ...



Thanks for sharing skipper 

When you say the airflow on the lemo two is cap, do you mean you don't like the draw or is it too restrictive? 

PS you're in for a treat with Nora's. It's amazing!


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## Yiannaki (25/4/15)

Mario said:


> weldone!! @Rob Fisher and @Yiannaki @Kaizer
> thank for sharing this as my nickel will be arrive Wednesday.
> Will be sending my build soonest


Great news


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## VandaL (13/5/15)

Only built a few Ni200 coils, but have been enjoying this one in the derringer




26g NON-TEMPERED (  @capetocuba) 14 wraps 0.126ohm. 41J 540F

Reactions: Like 1


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## Yiannaki (5/6/15)

So last night after chatting on the phone to @Paulie about Nickel coils, I thought I would try something different for my next nickel build.

Single Coil
28g twisted nickel
9 Wraps
KGD Wick
0.08 ohms

Verdict: The flavour is superb! Thick and dense vapour. This build likes some power behind it so I've found that 38 joules and 450F are my current sweet spot for it.

Reactions: Like 8 | Winner 3


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## johan (5/6/15)

Yiannaki said:


> So last might after chatting on the phone to @Paulie about Nickel coils, I thought I would try something different for my next nickel build.
> 
> Single Coil
> 28g twisted nickel
> ...



Nice, but 3 Joules sounds like a non-vape - I assume typo, seeing that assume is todays favorite word .

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Yiannaki (5/6/15)

johan said:


> Nice, but 3 Joules sounds like a non-vape - I assume typo, seeing that assume is todays favorite word .



Woops! Thanks @johan 

I missed the 8 that was supposed to follow the 3

Reactions: Like 1


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## shabbar (5/6/15)

Yiannaki said:


> So last night after chatting on the phone to @Paulie about Nickel coils, I thought I would try something different for my next nickel build.
> 
> Single Coil
> 28g twisted nickel
> ...




awesome pics @Yiannaki remind me to pay you a visit when my subtank arrives. mini vape meet on the cards ?


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## free3dom (5/6/15)

@Yiannaki amazing coiling...as usual


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## Andre (5/6/15)

Yiannaki said:


> So last night after chatting on the phone to @Paulie about Nickel coils, I thought I would try something different for my next nickel build.
> 
> Single Coil
> 28g twisted nickel
> ...


Damn, but you build beautiful coils. What is the secret? Patience?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Silver (6/6/15)

Yiannaki said:


> So last night after chatting on the phone to @Paulie about Nickel coils, I thought I would try something different for my next nickel build.
> 
> Single Coil
> 28g twisted nickel
> ...



Coil master of note!
Congrats @Yiannaki !
Hope that coil is still in operation when we meet up next. Would love to take a toot


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## Silver (6/6/15)

Andre said:


> Damn, but you build beautiful coils. What is the secret? Patience?



@Andre, 

Yiannaki gave away a few of his secrets in one of the workshops at Vapecon 

Patience and persistence from what I have seen


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## Rob Fisher (6/6/15)

Nickel Builds drive me to drink... the Nickel is so soft that changing wicks can be a very frustrating exercise... more often than not I end up having to rebuild the stinking coil after trying to extract the wick!

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Informative 1


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## Marzuq (6/6/15)

Rob Fisher said:


> Nickel Builds drive me to drink... the Nickel is so soft that changing wicks can be a very frustrating exercise... more often than not I end up having to rebuild the stinking coil after trying to extract the wick!



@Rob Fisher try splitting ur wick in half and insert them as two pieces as it's easier to remove half the wick at a time

Reactions: Thanks 1 | Informative 1


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## Rob Fisher (6/6/15)

Marzuq said:


> @Rob Fisher try splitting ur wick in half and insert them as two pieces as it's easier to remove half the wick at a time



Thanks! Great suggestion...

I have to say that after having played with nearly every tank in creation I'm pretty close to giving up on all of them including temp sensing ones as well. I find the flavour of the Cyclone with a 1,1Ω to 1,4Ω on a REO so close to perfection for me with my Menthol Juice and nothing has come close to the ease of use and perfect vape.

The Taifun GT 2 with Nickel on the SX Mini is very close from a flavour point of view but rewicking and making nickel coils and refilling the tank is a pain in the rear end!

Reactions: Agree 1


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## shabbar (6/6/15)

Rob Fisher said:


> Thanks! Great suggestion...
> 
> I have to say that after having played with nearly every tank in creation I'm pretty close to giving up on all of them including temp sensing ones as well. I find the flavour of the Cyclone with a 1,1Ω to 1,4Ω on a REO so close to perfection for me with my Menthol Juice and nothing has come close to the ease of use and perfect vape.
> 
> The Taifun GT 2 with Nickel on the SX Mini is very close from a flavour point of view but rewicking and making nickel coils and refilling the tank is a pain in the rear end!




just dont throw them into the gorge you can pass them over to me lol my sx mini is on the way

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mario (8/6/15)

Hi Lads
Need some info
I just built a dual 26ga Pure Nickel @ 0.08ohms in my Marquis RDA using the Vapershake rdna 40.

What will be the best temp for this build?

What is the lowest I can build on the vapershark?


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## huffnpuff (22/6/15)

Mario said:


> Hi Lads
> Need some info
> I just built a dual 26ga Pure Nickel @ 0.08ohms in my Marquis RDA using the Vapershake rdna 40.
> 
> ...


0.10 Ohms for DNA40, 0.05 Ohms for SX350j

Reactions: Like 1 | Thanks 1


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## Marzuq (25/6/15)

All done. thread moved and the other one deleted 
@Jakey @Andre

Reactions: Like 1


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## WHITELABEL (25/6/15)

My first nickel coil. 10 wrap dual coils, 28g at 2.5mm ID in the Goliath RTA. Came out to 0.08. Vaping like a dream.

Reactions: Like 4 | Winner 2


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## Paulie (25/6/15)

Gambit said:


> My first nickel coil. 10 wrap dual coils, 28g at 2.5mm ID in the Goliath RTA. Came out to 0.08. Vaping like a dream.




Great Job man!

Reactions: Thanks 1


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## Average vapor Joe (25/6/15)

I believe the vaporshark is rated for 0.1 ohms but I know that it does actually fire down to 0.06 ohms however I do not recommend going below 0.08 on the rDNA 40. As for the sx350j, I believe it fires down to 0.05.
Regarding the best temp for the build: to each is their own but if you truly want to use the benefits of the temp limiting, try keep the temp below 450 F as the cotton starts to mildly burn at like 460-480.

Reactions: Informative 2


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## Average vapor Joe (25/6/15)

Gambit said:


> My first nickel coil. 10 wrap dual coils, 28g at 2.5mm ID in the Goliath RTA. Came out to 0.08. Vaping like a dream.


Wow man. That's pretty amazing. I've been using nickel for a couple months now and I still haven't dared a dual coil. Well done to you and keep on vaping

Reactions: Thanks 1


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## WHITELABEL (25/6/15)

Average vapor Joe said:


> I believe the vaporshark is rated for 0.1 ohms but I know that it does actually fire down to 0.06 ohms however I do not recommend going below 0.08 on the rDNA 40. As for the sx350j, I believe it fires down to 0.05.
> Regarding the best temp for the build: to each is their own but if you truly want to use the benefits of the temp limiting, try keep the temp below 450 F as the cotton starts to mildly burn at like 460-480.


Thanks for this, still trying to get my head around watts vs temperature and ramp up times etc. Snow wolf fires down to 0.05 so think I'm okay sitting around 0.08. The main reason for duals is I don't own any single coil RTA's.

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## Average vapor Joe (25/6/15)

Gambit said:


> Thanks for this, still trying to get my head around watts vs temperature and ramp up times etc. Snow wolf fires down to 0.05 so think I'm okay sitting around 0.08. The main reason for duals is I don't own any single coil RTA's.


My pleasure man.
Here's a really nice page that helps you understand what's really happening with temp limiting.
http://www.rebelvaper.net/dna-40-tips.html
Try not to skip anything( I know it's long AF) and you should be a nickel veteran by the end of it.

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## Kaizer (25/6/15)

Cant stop staring at Golum...

Reactions: Funny 1


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## VapeSnow (11/7/15)

Hi guys

I just want to share this build, it's a amazing vape

28g nickel twisted single coil
14wraps
I'd 3,5mm
Ohms 0.14
On my Marquis RDA

Settings is 50j at 320f and man the flavor is great. 

I'm vaping on this coil for quite some time

Reactions: Like 3


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## kev mac (11/7/15)

Yiannaki said:


> So last night after chatting on the phone to @Paulie about Nickel coils, I thought I would try something different for my next nickel build.
> 
> Single Coil
> 28g twisted nickel
> ...


Nice work.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dr Phil (11/7/15)

29g tempad nickel with 30g kanthol twisted around 3mm Id dual coil on derrianga rda 0.05ohm on snow wolf 330c 55w

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## kimbo (12/7/15)

Time to try TC in a tank

Sub tank mini
Ni200 3mm ID 8wraps

Reactions: Like 2


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## Dr Phil (12/7/15)

Temp control works so well on the snow wolf and for the price and quality I'm blown away


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## Cave Johnson (16/7/15)

So I spent my early morning today building this nickel coil on my zephyrus (second build ever, be kind)





26g, 22 wraps each side (11+11)

Im reading 0.11 ohms so exactly where I want it. 

I've got some ideas on how to wick it without blocking the air flow but was wondering what you guys could suggest.

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 8


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## Kaizer (16/7/15)

Cave Johnson said:


> So I spent my early morning today building this nickel coil on my zephyrus (second build ever, be kind)
> 
> View attachment 31444
> View attachment 31445
> ...



WOW! Amazing! Truly amazing. You are definitely a natural.

Please post pics after you have wick'd it.

Reactions: Thanks 1


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## JW Flynn (16/7/15)

that looks good!!

I would recommend perhaps turning the top cap on, i'm assuming it's allot like that of the billow 2...

Then you can stuff your cotton in while the outer sleeve is on there... this should work like a charm as you would be able to get cotton everywhere but in the holes... then just a matter of seeing if the wicking will work and fine tune it from there...

Good luck, let us know how it turns out bud

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Cave Johnson (16/7/15)

@JW Flynn Yipp somewhat similar concept as the billow 2.

Cool, will try that out later this evening and see how it works.

Will post how successful I am.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Cave Johnson (20/7/15)

UPDATE: Soooo the coil popped while test firing  Not too sure why.

Going to rebuild tomorrow and see if I can get it right.


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## Yiannaki (20/7/15)

Cave Johnson said:


> UPDATE: Soooo the coil popped while test firing  Not too sure why.
> 
> Going to rebuild tomorrow and see if I can get it right.


Did you test fire in temp mode or normal?


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## Cave Johnson (20/7/15)

Yiannaki said:


> Did you test fire in temp mode or normal?



Temp, cant test fire in power mode because the resistance is too low.


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## Average vapor Joe (20/7/15)

Just Finnished my twisted and smoothed dual 28 awg build.
Waiting for my batteries for the ipv3 li to Finnish charging. Pics up soon .


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## Average vapor Joe (20/7/15)

Dual series twisted (and smoothed) 28 awg nickel build reading at .23 ohms on the ipv3 li. Took me forever to build but it makes some of the thickest clouds I've ever seen.

Reactions: Like 3


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## kev mac (23/7/15)

dr phil said:


> Temp control works so well on the snow wolf and for the price and quality I'm blown away


Want one so bad.Definitely on my to-get list.


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## kev mac (23/7/15)

Cave Johnson said:


> So I spent my early morning today building this nickel coil on my zephyrus (second build ever, be kind)
> 
> View attachment 31444
> View attachment 31445
> ...


If this is your second build you should be telling us.nice work!

Reactions: Thanks 1


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## kev mac (23/7/15)

kimbo said:


> Time to try TC in a tank
> 
> Sub tank mini
> Ni200 3mm ID 8wraps
> ...


Good one @Kimbo,here's my latest:clapton-0.8*0.1mm flat kanth. w/28g nick. 8wraps on 2mm rod. Great warmth and flavor.My first Clapton and I'm very pleased with it.On my CEO fog dripper


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## skola (4/8/15)

Dual Coil
28g Nickle
2.5mm ID
10 wraps
0.083 ohms
Running on the SX mini 

For some reason I'm not getting to where I want to be flavour wise on the SX. Granted, this is only my second build, the first was on a subtank mini. The vape just doesn't seem as "full" as my dual 26g Kanthal at about 0.4ohms. Currently vaping Sutro - Frisco Vapor which is a blueberry oatmeal cookie. With the kanthal the blueberry is sweet and pops on the inhale. Nickel on the other hand, the taste is very subtle. 

Any advice on the SX will be appreciated.

Reactions: Like 2


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## acorn (4/8/15)

skola said:


> Dual Coil
> 28g Nickle
> 2.5mm ID
> 10 wraps
> ...


 
Hi, no expert advice here, running a similar build: Dual Coil: 26g Ni200, 2.5 id, 10 wraps = 0.08ohm, only difference is coils is not spaced and closer to the air holes if it might help. SX running at 25.0J, 220C on Eco mode, more for flavour than clouds. Currently vaping Melinda's Nilla Custard 12mg and get the rich ultramel taste i'm looking for.

This morning when removing the Billow, refill and paired again with the SX and resistance is showing 0.05ohm 

Nice build by the way

Reactions: Like 1


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## shabbar (4/8/15)

skola said:


> Dual Coil
> 28g Nickle
> 2.5mm ID
> 10 wraps
> ...




super neat coils there !!

Ps your sx mini looks funny

Reactions: Funny 1


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## skola (4/8/15)

acorn said:


> Hi, no expert advice here, running a similar build: Dual Coil: 26g Ni200, 2.5 id, 10 wraps = 0.08ohm, only difference is coils is not spaced and closer to the air holes if it might help. SX running at 25.0J, 220C on Eco mode, more for flavour than clouds. Currently vaping Melinda's Nilla Custard 12mg and get the rich ultramel taste i'm looking for.
> 
> This morning when removing the Billow, refill and paired again with the SX and resistance is showing 0.05ohm
> 
> Nice build by the way



Thanks for the feedback. I'll play around with it in that region. Still getting to terms with this Joules and Temp thing.. Interesting that you say you get that ultramel taste on MNC. I've never ever got that taste from that juice. 

Haha, Nickel is all over the place. I noticed if I let the tank sit for a while, the resistance starts to settle.

Reactions: Like 1


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## skola (4/8/15)

shabbar said:


> super neat coils there !!
> 
> Ps your sx mini looks funny


Wanted to rate this post with a thanks and a funny.. lol. 
You right hey, kinda looks like an iStick.


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## 3FVape (4/8/15)

Just Get a question from others, is it because he did not use Nickle, then he cannot fall in TC mode?, can anybody help me? 

"I lock the device by pressing the power button 5 times. Then, I press the power and down button and enter TC mode and set the temp to say 450F. Then, I unlock by pressing the power button 5 times again. Now, when I'm taking a hit (aka pressing the power button), the screen slips to Kanthal mode and it shows the voltage for the wattage I set, rather than the temperature fluctuation that it should show. So, what I have to do is get to the TC mode again and again and again until somehow magically it will fall in TC mode. Until then, I have to repeat this process again and again. It was frustrating but now I kinda got used to it. Is your Kangxin clone or?"

Thanks in advance!


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## Andre (4/8/15)

Gina said:


> Just Get a question from others, is it because he did not use Nickle, then he cannot fall in TC mode?


Yes, the TC mode is calibrated for Nickel or Titanium, depending on the mod.

Reactions: Thanks 1


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## skola (12/8/15)

Sister in law bought me a Macro lens for my phone.. First thought that came to mind was, now I can take proper pics of my coils!!!



Dual 28G Ni200 - 3mm diameter.
0.070 ohms.

Reactions: Like 3 | Winner 2


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## Ohmen (12/8/15)

Yiannaki said:


> So last night after chatting on the phone to @Paulie about Nickel coils, I thought I would try something different for my next nickel build.
> 
> Single Coil
> 28g twisted nickel
> ...



Just a quick question to the guys building twisted coils.

Do you twist the Nickel(Ni200 28g) with Kanthal or Nickel?


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## Yiannaki (12/8/15)

Ohmen said:


> Just a quick question to the guys building twisted coils.
> 
> Do you twist the Nickel(Ni200 28g) with Kanthal or Nickel?


@Ohmen I twist nickel with nickel.

I believe that twisting with kanthal also works but I have yet to try man

I know @BigAnt has built twisted nickel builds with different gauge nickel wires. I.E 28g twisted with 31g


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## Ohmen (12/8/15)

Yiannaki said:


> @Ohmen I twist nickel with nickel.
> 
> I believe that twisting with kanthal also works but I have yet to try man
> 
> I know @BigAnt has built twisted nickel builds with different gauge nickel wires. I.E 28g twisted with 31g



Thanks @Yiannaki 

I have been meaning to try Nickel twisted with Kanthal both 28g but I just need to know that the TC will work as per normal

Reactions: Like 1


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## Yiannaki (12/8/15)

Ohmen said:


> Thanks @Yiannaki
> 
> I have been meaning to try Nickel twisted with Kanthal both 28g but I just need to know that the TC will work as per normal



No worries man.  

What tank/rda will u be using for the twisted build and what mod will you be running it on?


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## Ohmen (12/8/15)

Yiannaki said:


> No worries man.
> 
> What tank/rda will u be using for the twisted build and what mod will you be running it on?



I want to build it on my Lemo 2 with iStick 40w and Mutation Xv4 (single coil) on my IPV4S

Reactions: Like 1


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## Yiannaki (12/8/15)

Ohmen said:


> I want to build it on my Lemo 2 with iStick 40w and Mutation Xv4 (single coil) on my IPV4S



ah okay great! I see the istick 40w has a min nickel resistance of 0.05ohms which will give enough flexibility for nickel builds


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## Mario (12/8/15)

Goliath II - Stock Coil Rebuild

I was planning to do a dual coil, but seen that this is my 1st time doing this on a Goliath II rather single coil for now.

Stock coil stripped and ready


That screw is 4.0 ID btw
I done about 13 wraps....



.....removed some wraps aiming for that 0.15ohms



26g is so more forgiving when it comes to wicking. Snug fit.



The fitting!!






Juiced!!






Vaping for about 2 hours on this rebuilt coil and had no leaks. Super easy to build.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 3


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## Andre (12/8/15)

Mario said:


> Goliath II - Stock Coil Rebuild
> 
> I was planning to do a dual coil, but seen that this is my 1st time doing this on a Goliath II rather single coil for now.
> 
> ...


Wow, great picture tutorial. Thank you. Need to raid my little store room for a screw like that.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mario (12/8/15)

Andre said:


> Wow, great picture tutorial. Thank you. Need to raid my little store room for a screw like that.


 lol
i bought 2.0-2.5-3.0 & 4.0 from my local hardware store. What i like about doing my wraps around this screws especially in an RDA is that once its installed onto your deck all is need is to unscrew and wick ...easy ...easy

Reactions: Like 2


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## kev mac (12/8/15)

Ohmen said:


> Thanks @Yiannaki
> 
> I have been meaning to try Nickel twisted with Kanthal both 28g but I just need to know that the TC will work as per normal


@Ohmen,twisting Kanthal+nickle works great on t.c.I find it makes it easier as it sturdies up the builds and gives better flavor imo.


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## Riaz (2/9/15)

Build on the lemo 2:

twisted 28g ni200
7 wraps
2.5mm ID
0.08 ohms




all juiced up:




currently running at 20J and 200deg

what settings (Joules and degree C) would you recommend?


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## Yiannaki (2/9/15)

Riaz said:


> Build on the lemo 2:
> 
> twisted 28g ni200
> 7 wraps
> ...



Nice @Riaz  

How are you finding the vape on TC? 

Try cranking the temp to 230 and the power to 28J. and let us know how you find it

Reactions: Agree 1 | Thanks 1


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## Dubz (2/9/15)

Riaz said:


> Build on the lemo 2:
> 
> twisted 28g ni200
> 7 wraps
> ...


210 to 230deg and 30 to 40j

Reactions: Like 1 | Thanks 1


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## Riaz (2/9/15)

Yiannaki said:


> Nice @Riaz
> 
> How are you finding the vape on TC?
> 
> Try cranking the temp to 230 and the power to 28J. and let us know how you find it


Today is my first day experimenting, and so far, honestly there is a difference in vape compared to kanthal, but im not making any rulings just yet 

You know how things are when you just get it, your opinion is clouded (pun intended)

Reactions: Like 2


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## Yiannaki (2/9/15)

Riaz said:


> Today is my first day experimenting, and so far, honestly there is a difference in vape compared to kanthal, but im not making any rulings just yet
> 
> You know how things are when you just get it, your opinion is clouded (pun intended)


Fair point man.

I think it will take some time to notice the difference. One thing i can recommend is to try juices you know really well.

I'm my experience, almost all of them tasted slightly different on TC and for the better!

Keep us posted

Reactions: Like 1


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## Riaz (2/9/15)

Yiannaki said:


> Fair point man.
> 
> I think it will take some time to notice the difference. One thing i can recommend is to try juices you know really well.
> 
> ...


Will do man


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## Riaz (2/9/15)

Dubz said:


> 210 to 230deg and 30 to 40j


getting a harsh vape on these settings (tried them both)

210 and 30J
230 and 40J

now on 220 and 28J- better

Reactions: Like 1


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## Dubz (2/9/15)

Riaz said:


> getting a harsh vape on these settings (tried them both)
> 
> 210 and 30J
> 230 and 40J
> ...


I said 210deg to 230deg and 30j to 40j you just have to find your sweet spot. The beauty of TC is that you find the temp you like and adjust your joules as you feel the need.

Reactions: Thanks 1


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## Riaz (2/9/15)

Dubz said:


> I said 210deg to 230deg and 30j to 40j you just have to find your sweet spot. The beauty of TC is that you find the temp you like and adjust your joules as you feel the need.


AHHH now i understand

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Andre (2/9/15)

Dubz said:


> I said 210deg to 230deg and 30j to 40j you just have to find your sweet spot. The beauty of TC is that you find the temp you like and adjust your joules as you feel the need.


The higher the Joules the faster you reach your selected temperature?

Reactions: Like 1 | Useful 1


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## skola (2/9/15)

Andre said:


> The higher the Joules the faster you reach your selected temperature?


That's my understanding... 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dubz (2/9/15)

Andre said:


> The higher the Joules the faster you reach your selected temperature?


Yes thats correct sir .

Reactions: Thanks 1


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## BumbleBee (26/11/15)

I don't really know what I'm doing when it comes to TC but I'm learning now that I have a proper TC device. The eVix VT was ok, it worked but this Wismec Reuleaux is something else. Anywhay.... I chucked this dual setup together on the Bellus quickly this morning and it's performing brilliantly with Complex Chaos Freaky Loops on Cotton Bacon v2

3mm ID
28g Nickel 200
10 Wrap dual
0.10 ohms

Reactions: Like 1


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## jlw777 (26/11/15)

How many power would a dual coil nickle coil need?

28G

Nickle 200

2mm, 9 wraps


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## Andre (26/11/15)

jlw777 said:


> How many power would a dual coil nickle coil need?
> 
> 28G
> 
> ...


Nickel can only be used on TC (temperature control) mods, which means you have to set both the temperature and the power to your own liking.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## jlw777 (26/11/15)

Andre said:


> Nickel can only be used on TC (temperature control) mods, which means you have to set both the temperature and the power to your own liking.


I'm using a Goliath V2 with dual coil RBA with Evic Vt mini (single 18650) I feel that there isn't enough power to drive it to the optimal temperature


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## Ohmen (26/11/15)

BumbleBee said:


> 3mm ID
> 28g Nickel 200
> 10 Wrap dual
> 0.10 ohms
> ...



Did you space those coils?

Edit: The reason that I'm asking is because I have always only seen spaced nickel coils. Iv'e never seen a build like yours.

I am useless when it comes to TC


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## Andre (26/11/15)

jlw777 said:


> I'm using a Goliath V2 with dual coil RBA with Evic Vt mini (single 18650) I feel that there isn't enough power to drive it to the optimal temperature


To what power did you try, think the Evic Mini can go up to 75W.


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## jlw777 (26/11/15)

Andre said:


> To what power did you try, think the Evic Mini can go up to 75W.


Up to tried up to 60w. Ramps up too slowly


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## foGGyrEader (26/11/15)

jlw777 said:


> Up to tried up to 60w. Ramps up too slowly


 
Also a noob here, was wondering if your battery is capable of providing enough Amps? I think the lower the resistance the more amps are needed? Guess the experts can answer that one...


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## Andre (26/11/15)

jlw777 said:


> Up to tried up to 60w. Ramps up too slowly


Sounds improbable with 28g. I suspect the Nickel wire is loose or broken somewhere. What temperature (in C) are you set at?


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## jlw777 (26/11/15)

Andre said:


> Sounds improbable with 28g. I suspect the Nickel wire is loose or broken somewhere. What temperature (in C) are you set at?


250 c


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## Andre (26/11/15)

foGGyrEader said:


> Also a noob here, was wondering if your battery is capable of providing enough Amps? I think the lower the resistance the more amps are needed? Guess the experts can answer that one...


With regulated mods that is mostly irrelevant, especially in TC mode. With mech mods, the lower the resistance the higher the current.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Andre (26/11/15)

jlw777 said:


> 250 c


Yeah, I can see no problem other than a loose connection somewhere.


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## DougP (26/11/15)

@ bubble bee..
Don't want to interfere but using TC mode you have to run spaced coils
Looking at your pic those coils are not spaced..
Secondly in TC mode you don't use watts as in power mode u use joules.. This in lay man's terms means the amount off power in a given period of time.
So cranking up the "joules" will exponentially increase the power in a given time say 1 second
What this does in reality is it blasts the coil and then the TC regulation kicks in quicker because you have reached the desired temperature setting..
TC mode is primarily controlled by the temperature selected and not by how much power you throw at it. That's why sometimes a device sounds like a tractor engine its because joules to high coil heats to quick and temp restriction kicks in switching it off so to speak
Critical to your build the device measures the fluctuation in the wire to calculate temperature so that is why the coils have to be spaced and cannot touch at all 
So in TC mode you select comfortable temp for you then play around with joules to find the ideal vape for you.
.


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## Andre (26/11/15)

DougP said:


> @ bubble bee..
> Don't want to interfere but using TC mode you have to run spaced coils
> Looking at your pic those coils are not spaced..
> Secondly in TC mode you don't use watts as in power mode u use joules.. This in lay man's terms means the amount off power in a given period of time.
> ...


Not sure I agree with your reason for suggesting spaced coils. With Nickel they say spaced coils are better because it is Nickel - more about the inherent qualities of Nickel than calculating the temp. I have done contact coils with both Ti and SS in TC mode with good effect, and so have many other vapers.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## DougP (26/11/15)

I could be wrong and stand under correction
It could be pertaining to nickel then
My apologies now where's the tipex

Reactions: Like 1


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## BumbleBee (26/11/15)

These coils are running beautifully so far, I'll still get to doing some spaced ones later to see what the difference is. The DNA200 doesn't do Joules, but from what I have gathered so far Watts and Joules do pretty much the same thing if you take all the technical jargon out.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Ohmen (26/11/15)

BumbleBee said:


> These coils are running beautifully so far, I'll still get to doing some spaced ones later to see what the difference is. The DNA200 doesn't do Joules, but from what I have gathered so far Watts and Joules do pretty much the same thing if you take all the technical jargon out.



I have only had unpleasant experiences with TC. It really sucks.

I'm going to build dual 26g Ni200 contact coils this evening and see how it goes.

I thought it MUST be spaced.


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## BumbleBee (26/11/15)

Ohmen said:


> I have only had unpleasant experiences with TC. It really sucks.
> 
> I'm going to build dual 26g Ni200 contact coils this evening and see how it goes.
> 
> I thought it MUST be spaced.


I'm with you there, the eVic VT with the Ego Mega was a disaster but the DNA200 is a completely different animal, I think I'm going to enjoy it once I understand it all better


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## sneakydino (8/12/15)

So it's safe to build unspaced nickel coils ?


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## blujeenz (8/12/15)

sneakydino said:


> So it's safe to build unspaced nickel coils ?


No experience with nickle, but a quick google yielded this.



> Spacing the coils gives you maximum surface area, with less length of wire, allowing the chip in the mod to easily attain the estimated temperature, based on the change of resistance.
> 
> Additionally, nickel is exceptionally malleable, and tends to move ever so slightly as it's under fire, making a compressed coil consistently gain hot spots over use.


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## sneakydino (8/12/15)

blujeenz said:


> No experience with nickle, but a quick google yielded this.



Ya thanks from what I read it's basically just with regards to preventing hot spots since you can't dry burn it.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Daniel Alves (14/12/15)

hi,
a bit of a noob as i will be trying TC with new mod soon, but just to see what the difference is between NI200 and NI80?
i googled and it was said it was just the percentage of purity?
what i want to know is that i wanted to get a rough estimate of coil size on Steam-engine or coiltoy sites, will NI80 be the same or close enough to use and an estimate?


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## Andre (14/12/15)

Daniel Alves said:


> hi,
> a bit of a noob as i will be trying TC with new mod soon, but just to see what the difference is between NI200 and NI80?
> i googled and it was said it was just the percentage of purity?
> what i want to know is that i wanted to get a rough estimate of coil size on Steam-engine or coiltoy sites, will NI80 be the same or close enough to use and an estimate?


Is that not just Nichrome N80, which Steam Engine does cater for?


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## KimVapeDashian (14/12/15)

BumbleBee said:


> I don't really know what I'm doing when it comes to TC but I'm learning now that I have a proper TC device. The eVix VT was ok, it worked but this Wismec Reuleaux is something else. Anywhay.... I chucked this dual setup together on the Bellus quickly this morning and it's performing brilliantly with Complex Chaos Freaky Loops on Cotton Bacon v2
> 
> 3mm ID
> 28g Nickel 200
> ...



I cant fit anything bigger than duel 2.5mm into my bellus.

I want to just give you a hug, for getting a 3mm ID into that little bugger!!!!!!

Reactions: Winner 1 | Funny 1


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## Daniel Alves (14/12/15)

thats what i didnt understand untill you said it.
nichrome and nickel
so NI80 and NI200 are different metal compounds,
what would the recommended be for TC between the 2?
and resistance wise, will it be the same?


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## Ezekiel (14/12/15)

Daniel Alves said:


> thats what i didnt understand untill you said it.
> nichrome and nickel
> so NI80 and NI200 are different metal compounds,
> what would the recommended be for TC between the 2?
> and resistance wise, will it be the same?



Hi Daniel

Nichrome (Nichrome80) and Nickel (Ni200) are two entirely different materials, with the only common element is that they both contain metallic nickel. But in every other respect they are different.

How different? A lot. In terms of TC, the one is TC-usable (Ni200) and the other not. Specifically, Nichrome doesn't have a measurable (in terms of what a mod can detect) change in resistance when the temperature changes. Here is a graph (from www.steam-engine.org) which shows the change in temperature with the change in resistance:




Quite flat, right? In comparison, here is the same chart for Ni200:




So in other words, if you try to run TC for Nichrome, your mod (if you have a decent, updated one) will probably bomb you back to power/Kanthal/wattage mode, or give an error. If you don't have the newest of mods, it will probably think you are running actual Nickel, and it will assume the temperature doesn't change at all from room temperature, so it will just continue firing until you see some glorious fire from your driptip.

In terms of resistativity, they are worlds apart as well. Ni200 have a very low base resistance:




(This is 8 wraps, 2mm ID, single coil). You can see the resistance is 0.056 Ohm - suuuper low. The resistivity is 0.75 Ohm per meter.

On the other hand, Nichrome looks like this:




Same build (8 wraps @ 2.0 mm ID) gives 0.641 Ohm, with a resistivity of 8.46 Ohm/meter. Muuuch higher than Ni200. In fact, Nichrome is very much in the range as Kanthal:





TL;DR. Nichrome (or NiChrome80) cannot be used for TC, but is a nice, light-weight and easy-to-work and tastier alternative to Kanthal. Nickel (or Ni200) can be used only for TC - it generally builds too low for power builds, gets hot super quick if not temp controlled and oxidizes when it does so.

Hope it helps! If you really want to use Nichrome for TC, you can twist a strand of Nichrome with a strand of Ni200, like some crazy fools are doing.  I personally use Titatium (and recently Stainless Steel with DNA200) for TC builds - prefer it over Nickel for both health reasons (my own) and the fact that Ni is so damn squishy I mess more coils up than what I actually can vape.

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 4


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## Daniel Alves (14/12/15)

Wow, thanks for the info, very informative, been trying to get my head around this and that actually made sense to me.
appreciate the effort here.
im getting a RX200 so hopefully soon and try some stuff out, reason for looking into this was for flavor.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Andre (14/12/15)

Daniel Alves said:


> thats what i didnt understand untill you said it.
> nichrome and nickel
> so NI80 and NI200 are different metal compounds,
> what would the recommended be for TC between the 2?
> and resistance wise, will it be the same?


As @Ezekiel said above. Thank you @Ezekiel, much appreciated.

Reactions: Like 1


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## BumbleBee (14/12/15)

KimVapeDashian said:


> I cant fit anything bigger than duel 2.5mm into my bellus.
> 
> I want to just give you a hug, for getting a 3mm ID into that little bugger!!!!!!


lol, I think that build is pretty much its size limit, but it all went to hell when I tried rewicking it, Nickel is just too soft. I now have a 24g Kanthal (2.5mm) build in the Bellus and have come to the conclusion that I don't like Nickel or 24g Kanthal. 26g Kanthal is still my weapon of choice.

Reactions: Like 1


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## kev mac (14/12/15)

BumbleBee said:


> I'm with you there, the eVic VT with the Ego Mega was a disaster but the DNA200 is a completely different animal, I think I'm going to enjoy it once I understand it all better


I must say that my Rx200 works better in T.C. than any of my other mods except my DNA 200s escribe capability.

Reactions: Like 1


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## kev mac (14/12/15)

Ezekiel said:


> Hi Daniel
> 
> Nichrome (Nichrome80) and Nickel (Ni200) are two entirely different materials, with the only common element is that they both contain metallic nickel. But in every other respect they are different.
> 
> ...


@Ezekiel nice work,I'm tired of ni200 both for health and lack of ease I want to start using SS and would like to hear members thoughts on it compared to nic. and Ti.


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## Silver (14/12/15)

Awesome post @Ezekiel 
Very informative!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ezekiel (14/12/15)

kev mac said:


> @Ezekiel nice work,I'm tired of ni200 both for health and lack of ease I want to start using SS and would like to hear members thoughts on it compared to nic. and Ti.


I have never managed to get a satisfactory TC vape from SS until the DNA200. The resistance changes are just too small, in the range of most mod's accuracy window. In addition, because of the low TCR, any differences in the alloy from manufacturor to manufacturor changes the actual temp-resistance relationship tremendously... so even if you got the stock TFR profike from steam engine or your mod has a stock/linear curve pre-installed, it tends to work sub-par for each different wire and each different coil. Im away from my PC, but Ive got a nice graph to show what I mean.

On the DNA200, Ive messed around eith the steam engine curve until I had a decent temp-resistance relationship... and then I built in a 'buffer' region - a region where the temp remains the same despite any resistance changes. The idea was that the device should not change output voltage for a small range of resistance changes, instead of a static single resistance limit. It worked great for SS... but, as Ive said, its the only time Ive managed to nail SS TC.

That said, I might have had a really bad SS wire in the first place... who knows. Was UD, so should ne good quality...

SS still gives a very nice non-TC vape, and is super easy to work with... its just a tweaky as hell wire to get TC correct with. Maybe if you twist it with Ni? 

Btw,I tried a parallel Ti/Kanthal build today... what a fail. Ti is so super annoying to work with...

Sent from my GT-I9195 using Tapatalk


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## Ezekiel (14/12/15)

Thanks @Silver and @Andre! 

Sent from my GT-I9195 using Tapatalk

Reactions: Like 1


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## kev mac (15/12/15)

Ezekiel said:


> I have never managed to get a satisfactory TC vape from SS until the DNA200. The resistance changes are just too small, in the range of most mod's accuracy window. In addition, because of the low TCR, any differences in the alloy from manufacturor to manufacturor changes the actual temp-resistance relationship tremendously... so even if you got the stock TFR profike from steam engine or your mod has a stock/linear curve pre-installed, it tends to work sub-par for each different wire and each different coil. Im away from my PC, but Ive got a nice graph to show what I mean.
> 
> On the DNA200, Ive messed around eith the steam engine curve until I had a decent temp-resistance relationship... and then I built in a 'buffer' region - a region where the temp remains the same despite any resistance changes. The idea was that the device should not change output voltage for a small range of resistance changes, instead of a static single resistance limit. It worked great for SS... but, as Ive said, its the only time Ive managed to nail SS TC.
> 
> ...


Thanks, sounds like a lot of work and you obviously are more expert than most,but I may give it a try. Totally agree about Ti have had nothing but trouble and the build I got to work tasted not so great.When will they develop T.C.for Kanthal?


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## BuzzGlo (15/12/15)

BumbleBee said:


> lol, I think that build is pretty much its size limit, but it all went to hell when I tried rewicking it, Nickel is just too soft. I now have a 24g Kanthal (2.5mm) build in the Bellus and have come to the conclusion that I don't like Nickel or 24g Kanthal. 26g Kanthal is still my weapon of choice.



There is a hardened nickel which behaves more like kanthal for building and re-wicking. Spaced coils work way better in my experience. I actually only every built around 20 kanthal coils. I moved from commercial to kanthal then nickel within weeks. Its been around 8 months now of nickel exclusively. Mind you dual nickel is something I've never gotten correct.


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## WHeunis (16/12/15)

kev mac said:


> When will they develop T.C.for Kanthal?


Most likely, never.
Or at least not a very accurate version of it.
Kanthal has a very flat TCR curve.
What that means is that the resistance of kanthal doesnt change ENOUGH with applied temperature in the regions that mods can detect on a millisecond/resistance basis.

SS also has a very tight TCR curve, but kanthal is right up there with Nichrome when it comes to non-TC usability.

Reactions: Informative 3


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## kev mac (17/12/15)

Ezekiel said:


> I have never managed to get a satisfactory TC vape from SS until the DNA200. The resistance changes are just too small, in the range of most mod's accuracy window. In addition, because of the low TCR, any differences in the alloy from manufacturor to manufacturor changes the actual temp-resistance relationship tremendously... so even if you got the stock TFR profike from steam engine or your mod has a stock/linear curve pre-installed, it tends to work sub-par for each different wire and each different coil. Im away from my PC, but Ive got a nice graph to show what I mean.
> 
> On the DNA200, Ive messed around eith the steam engine curve until I had a decent temp-resistance relationship... and then I built in a 'buffer' region - a region where the temp remains the same despite any resistance changes. The idea was that the device should not change output voltage for a small range of resistance changes, instead of a static single resistance limit. It worked great for SS... but, as Ive said, its the only time Ive managed to nail SS TC.
> 
> ...


@Ezekiel ,If twisted w/ Ni would you use the Ni or SS setting?


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## Ezekiel (17/12/15)

It depends. If you have a DNA200, you can get the slightly altered TCR curve from the wire wizard on Steam-engine, and although it won't be 100% correct, it will be a good enough starting point for you to start messing around with it until you've found your vape. Here, I've used the parallel setting in Steam-engine (as it doesn't allow you to use twisted option with two different wire types... go figure. The equation remains the same AFAIK):




You can see the bottom faded line is the TCR curve for SS, whereas the top-most one is for Ni200. The black line is the resultant TCR (estimated) curve.

For non-DNA200 devices, it is a little bit more trickier, but you can get more or less the same result, I would venture. If you cannot change the TCR coefficient, then stick with the Ni setting - as you can see from the above graph, the changes in resistance from the Ni wire is much higher than the SS wire. Consequently, your mod will pick up these changes and determine the temperature. The small changes resulting from the SS wire will result in a few degrees inaccuracy, at most - so it might fail a cotton dry-burn test at a few degrees below the burn-point of cotton, but for most vaping related applications should be fine.

In fact, for other twisted/parallel/clapton coils of different wire types, you can estimate the temperature your mod will read in Ni-mode and the actual temperature of the coil by clicking on the Equivalents tab. For Ni/SS, it is supposedly exactly the same:




So 210 C for the Ni/SS wire in Ni mode will be equivalent to actual 210 for the wire type. But for a Ti/SS build, in Ti mode:




you have to set your mod on 160 C in order to get an actual 210. Note that these adjustments are more or less estimates.

Finally, if your mod can manually set the TCR coefficient, you can calculate the graph in Wire Wizard, copy the data from the "Table" results, paste it in Excel and calculate the TCR coefficient yourself (it is the slope of the graph...). Enter this value in your mod and should be more or less ok in vaping range, unless you have a seriously weird combination.

EDIT: You don't need to do it in Excel. Hell, you don't even have to google "How to calculate slope in Excel" if you had mathematics more than a few decades ago. You can just get the value in Steam-Engine, on the left hand side:




at the field saying, "TCR in vaping range". Here it is 5909E06... or 0.005909.

TL;DR: Use the wire with the higher TCR (in other words, Ni in a twisted Ni/SS build) if you cannot change any of your values on your mod manually; use the calculated TCR value if you can enter that in your mod, or download the .csv file if you have a DNA200.

Reactions: Informative 5


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## kev mac (18/12/15)

Ezekiel said:


> It depends. If you have a DNA200, you can get the slightly altered TCR curve from the wire wizard on Steam-engine, and although it won't be 100% correct, it will be a good enough starting point for you to start messing around with it until you've found your vape. Here, I've used the parallel setting in Steam-engine (as it doesn't allow you to use twisted option with two different wire types... go figure. The equation remains the same AFAIK):
> 
> View attachment 41305
> 
> ...


@Ezekiel ,Thanks for a great instruction.


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## Silver (18/12/15)

Dr @Ezekiel - you certainly have a superb way of explaining your wonderful knowledge on these advanced devices!

I must admit, all the adjustability is making me quite tempted

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ezekiel (18/12/15)

Silver said:


> Dr @Ezekiel - you certainly have a superb way of explaining your wonderful knowledge on these advanced devices!
> 
> I must admit, all the adjustability is making me quite tempted


Haha, thanks @Silver! I think you are totally confusing any knowledge I have with just pure emphusiasm!

It all started with the DNA200 in order to learn... but Ive realized it is not necessary, you can get almost all the same functionality on other devices as well. Specifically the RX200 I would think! That said, if you have the money (and more importantly, the time and the tinkering curiosity!) for a DNA200 it really pays off.

I really am trying to make some time in order to write a guide for fine-tweaking TC in eScribe... just so bloody busy this time of year!

Sent from my GT-I9195 using Tapatalk

Reactions: Like 2


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## Phillip868 (27/1/16)

Hi, I thought I may as well give my . I ordered 24AWG Kanthal from one of our vendors, opened the parcel and a 10m roll of Ni200 24AWG was sitting there, all allone like it was destined to be, I mean who uses 24AWG Ni200? so I phoned them and I got my Kanthal. Now what to do with the Ni200? Even at 11 wraps I cannot get the resistance high enough to read on my Istick 60w, so what now? I read up on combining Kanthal and Ni200 in temp mode, so I took twisted 28 Kanthal and paralel wrapped it around two legs of these BIG paperclips that I soldered together, so kind of an oval coil at 9wraps it is 1.5cm long, installed on my Vortice and it measures in at 0.06ohm. 31w and 190deg, it gives real good flavour just not enough of a cloud for me to be satisfied, anyway, the Kanthal is technichally just there to space the coil and make it look cool. Sadly I cannot post a pic, lighting is bad, here is a sketch.


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