# Coiling For Flavour, Throat Hit And Vapour



## Silver (11/4/14)

Hi all

I'd really like to know what the aspects of the setup are that produce flavour, throat hit and vapour. 

Here are my understandings at this stage. Lets build on this. 

*Vapour*
I understand this has a lot to do with power and the surface area in contact with your wick. More power and more surface area means more vaporising, so more vapour. I guess this also has to do with enough airflow and making sure the wicking is fast enough.


*Flavour*
Not sure what drives flavour from the coil's perspective. I suppose you need enough surface area and power to vaporise enough liquid to get the flavour in the first place. But then what gives one coil better flavour than another? 

I know that placing the coil low down for example on the iGOL and directly next to the airhole gives me maximum flavour for a given coil. 

I also know that the design of the device and the airflow inside the device plays a role. Ive heard small chimneys like the kayfun produce better flavour. Also the Reo's Reomiser for example is small so produces good flavour. I also know that juices taste different at different power. Complex juices have flavours that are dulled or heightened at different power settings. 

But what about the coil? Is a compressed micro coil better than a spread out one for flavour?

*Throat hit*
Not sure what gives one coil better throat hit than another. At this point, i know it has a lot to do with enough power and positioning of the coil closer to the mouthpiece. For example, raising the coil on the iGO-l or similarly shaped devices invreases the throat hit. 

Share your views and experiences....

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 1


----------



## Rob Fisher (11/4/14)

Great thread Hi Ho... I just strive for flavour with a decent cloud!


----------



## Silver (11/4/14)

Thanks Rob

and while you all consider your responses, will be interesting to hear what you are all chasing. 

I am chasing flavour and throat hit. Vapour is less important to me.


----------



## Riaz (11/4/14)

awesome thread @Silver 

looking forward to the experts responses

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Riaz (11/4/14)

Silver said:


> Thanks Rob
> 
> and while you all consider your responses, will be interesting to hear what you are all chasing.
> 
> I am chasing flavour and throat hit. Vapour is less important to me.



is it too much to ask to get all three

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## johan (11/4/14)

This will be a very interesting topic, and I would also love to read the various answers. There are so many variants at play here, when I get the flavour right, the throat hit is compromised, too low ohms and the flavour is compromised but the throat hit is good etc. etc.


----------



## Rob Fisher (11/4/14)

Silver said:


> I am chasing flavour and throat hit. Vapour is less important to me.



I want the taste and flavour above all else but I need some good coulds to finish off the experience... I also feel the flavour and clouds seem to be mutually exclusive! TH not as important.

And thanks to Hi Ho the number one thing for me is the position of the coil directly next to the air hole!

Reactions: Thanks 1


----------



## crack2483 (11/4/14)

Awesome thread for reference. 

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk


----------



## BhavZ (11/4/14)

I chase flavour and throat hit.

So my understanding is as follows:

Airflow and surface area are the two most important components in getting your mix right.

Throat Hit:

The coil setup is dependant upon where your air hole is situated. But in general terms you would want the air to flow up under the vapour. The more air mixes with vapour the more TH you are gonna get.

Flavour:
Flavour is somewhat linked to how dense your cloud is. The denser the cloud (less air) the more flavour you will get out of the drag. If air catches the vapour after the vapour has been produced (i.e. coil sits below the air hole), the air acts as a vacuum and pulls the vapour up with it but does not air-rate through the vapour allowing the cloud to remain dense and giving you more flavour.

Vapour:
Vapour production (and flavour is this regard) is based on surface area and heat distribution over that surface area. A micro coil burning from inside out concentrates that surface area to where about the coil is, hence why with a dual micro coil setup and the paracoil micro setup you get better flavour cause in essence the surface area is great in the entire setup. With the separated coils the surface area is a bit larger and the heat is spread between the coils which means heat is spread across more of the wick vapourising more of the liquid. The catch here though is to ensure that you have enough power flowing to the coils as heat retention with separated coils is less than that of a micro coil.

Please note these are my observations from building different coil setups and going through my high school physics textbooks to jog my memory on thermodynamics and the like.

Edit: grammar errors

Reactions: Like 2 | Informative 1 | Useful 1


----------



## johan (11/4/14)

For me personally, priority as follows:
1. Flavour
2. Throat hit
3. Vapour / clouds as some of you calls it


----------



## Riaz (11/4/14)

i have a 1.2ohm coil on the russian (3/4 wraps of 30g kanthal)

the flavour is awesome, clouds are good, th is compromised- i find myself having to 'double drag' (do a mouth hit, take a small breath, then immediately after do a looooong lung hit) to get a lekker throat hit

works like a charm, and clouds are thick


----------



## johan (11/4/14)

Riaz said:


> i have a 1.2ohm coil on the russian (3/4 wraps of 30g kanthal)
> 
> the flavour is awesome, clouds are good, th is compromised- i find myself having to 'double drag' (do a mouth hit, take a small breath, then immediately after do a looooong lung hit) to get a lekker throat hit
> 
> works like a charm, and clouds are thick



Open up the air hole and you will increase the throat hit


----------



## Riaz (11/4/14)

johan said:


> Open up the air hole and you will increase the throat hit



the air control screw is already completely removed

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## BhavZ (11/4/14)

Riaz said:


> the air control screw is already completely removed


Is your build a standard micro coil?

If it is and you want a good throat hit try using the chimney coil instead.



If I am not mistaken the air hole is under the coil. This build will give you better throat hit as the air flows through the centre of the coil but the flavour is slightly compromised but not that much.

I use it in my evod and man it kicks like a horse.


----------



## ET (11/4/14)

drill it bigger then


----------



## Riaz (11/4/14)

thanks @BhavZ 

ill give that a try


----------



## Riaz (11/4/14)

denizenx said:


> drill it bigger then


was thinking about this, but a bit scared


----------



## BhavZ (11/4/14)

Riaz said:


> was thinking about this, but a bit scared


Give the chimney coil a shot first as it is a lot simpler than drilling out the air hole with less risk, and if it doesn't work for you then drill the whole bigger.


----------



## Smokyg (11/4/14)

I look for clouds, then flavour and last is TH, less TH is better for me.. 

2 best coils i had so far was the quad twisted and now the twin coil is a winner for both flavour and clouds..

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## devdev (11/4/14)

I propose the following hypothesis - which I shall call Devdev's Vape Hypothesis - in relation to the pursuit for a decent vape.

I did not invent the diagram below, but have seen it frequently referred to. The same diagram exists in terms of food: Cheap/Fast/Tasty. As with the diagram here, it would seem that for most of us when seeking a potential mate we all strive for the perfect balance of all three characteristics. Typically though one has to compromise on one of the corners of the triangle.



Note: If you should find someone who occupies the center of the triangle, congratulations! You have found someone who is rarer than a Unicorn.

Now if I am to apply this particular diagram style to vaping , it supports my current fool-osophical line of thinking: That in pursuit of the perfect vape, one can typically only accomodate 2 of these reqiurements, as pursuit of those two appears (based on my experience and practical trials) to cancel out any chance of the physics involved allow one to succeed in achieving the third corner of the triangle.

Accordingly I propose the following diagram:




It is important to mention that the physics and chemistry involved in the science of vaping means that it is theoritically possible to achieve an all rounder, but my suspicion is that this all rounder will in fact consist of a well balanced vape experience, but that it will be compromised. Meaning that while you may find TH/Flavour/Clouds present in a given design, it will certainly not be the best of each of those three.

Again, I say that it must be possible to attain all three, but at this stage I have not found the solution.

In my experience what does come very close is non-other than the Reo

[/LOAD MODE +Fanboy]

In accordance with my limited, but promising experience with the Reo, I propose the following hypothesis:




It would appear to me that the zone of catness (i.e. the ultimate vape) is possible with the Reo, although this is not something I have perfected just yet, and I still suspect that the third corner of the triangle will have to be underrepresented or compromised.

[/LOAD MODE -Fanboy]

Having said all of that, I think a dripper style setup allows for the best chance of reaching the zone of catness. My experience with the KF style of RBA indicates to me that it is not possible to reach this zone, however it is possible to accommodate 2 of the corners of the triangle.

Reactions: Like 3 | Winner 6


----------



## Andre (11/4/14)

Rob Fisher said:


> I want the taste and flavour above all else but I need some good coulds to finish off the experience... I also feel the flavour and clouds seem to be mutually exclusive! TH not as important.
> 
> And thanks to Hi Ho the number one thing for me is the position of the coil directly next to the air hole!


Two ways to get more clouds. (1) Get juices with more VG. (2) Consider opening up that air hole just a tad. Easily done on the Reomizer with a drill bit by hand.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Rob Fisher (11/4/14)

Matthee said:


> Two ways to get more clouds. (1) Get juices with more VG. (2) Consider opening up that air hole just a tad. Easily done on the Reomizer with a drill bit by hand.



Awesome! 

My 100% VG should have arrived today!  Note to @Oupa : The must never ever send with this courier again as long as we both shall live!


----------



## Tom (11/4/14)

me chasing both clouds and flavour. TH is not that important to me. I also got the feeling that the flavour is increased with density of the clouds. I.e. with the Origin I got for the first time really dense clouds, i can feel the density on the tongue whilst exhaling....and the flavour is better with that.

Gesendet von meinem LIFETAB_E7316 mit Tapatalk

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## Metal Liz (11/4/14)

excellent hypothesis professor duckanator

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## devdev (11/4/14)

Thanks Lizzie. Seems there is no comment from fellow posters :/ must mean my hypothesis is correct!

Even more shocking that none of the cat lovers approved of the zone of catness comment. Very disappointing! Will have to approach the fine master and arrange for the whole forum to be fined

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Oupa (11/4/14)

Damnnnn! I know @Rob Fisher ... they are very inconsistant. I guess that is what we get for using a low cost courier 

Not to worry, our website is ready to go live early in next week with courier options

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## devdev (11/4/14)

@Oupa I've been holding out on this month's stock replenishments. Been browsing the website already, just waiting for the register new account option to go live.

Actually scrap that, going to order this weekend by email and then will wait for new concentrates before you ship


----------



## Alex (11/4/14)

I did another experiment with the Kayfun lite yesterday, drillled out the air hole once again, this time increasing it to 2.5mm. Big improvement for me. The other thing I did was change to a silica wick using the same quad micro coil @2mm. Using the "Navy nest" wicking method. TH and flavour are spot on for me. Only problem is it's drinking juice like mad.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## devdev (11/4/14)

@Alex following your advice I drilled my KFL+ airhole out to 2mm. Seems to have made a decent difference, and also cleaned the muck out of the center pin. Looking at it carefully, it seemed to be that milky opaque plastic that the 510 positive screw is surrounded by. 

I rebuilt with a twisted 30g coil. Came out at 1 ohm, and I ran the wicks down like you would wick an aqua. The problem is that I can't get enough juice into the chamber. I have to wait every 4 puffs for it to draw liquid up the wick again. I am wondering if this is related to the new airhole size upping juice consumption.

Thanks for the video. Gonna check it out


----------



## Alex (11/4/14)

@devdev, I have the quad juice channel version of the KFL unfortunately, and I have personally never had any dry hits, my problem has always been flooding and then minor leaking issues, which is what prompted me to try reducing the vacuum with a larger air intake. In my opinion @2.5mm. The draw feels exactly the same as my kayfun 3.1 right now. And it feels like a much smoother vape.


----------



## Rob Fisher (12/4/14)

Oupa said:


> Not to worry, our website is ready to go live early in next week with courier options



Brilliant news! Whoooo!


----------



## Silver (12/4/14)

Hi guys and girls

Thanks for the feedback thus far. @BhavZ your input was superb, thanks.

@devdev your triangle hypothesis was classic! Essentially what you are saying is that its not easy if not impossible to get all three aspects maximised. I can understand that since just my simple understanding of flavour versus throat hit setups on the dripper are opposite. Ie, the more flavour, the less throat hit etc. 

But i would still like to hear from people on how they tweak their setup even just to improve one of these aspects. 

What have you changed and what did you then notice?

Reactions: Like 1


----------

