# Nicotine Supplier



## Shako (25/11/13)

I am trying to find a supplier for ether VG or PG nicotine for me to create my own E-liquids?
I would like to create and resell my own mixes at a better price than whats on the market using the best quality i can find.

Can anyone help me find a supplier?


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## TylerD (25/11/13)

This is quite a problem for us all.
At the moment we get from Vapour mountain or eciggies. Some also import, but it is quite expensive.
Busy talking to a local supplier.


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## Shako (25/11/13)

Spoke to most of the major e cig imports in S.A. and they all struggling so far. 

Please if possible keep us updated about a local supplier

Reactions: Like 1


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## TylerD (25/11/13)

Shako said:


> Spoke to most of the major e cig imports in S.A. and they all struggling so far.
> 
> Please if possible keep us updated about a local supplier


Will do.


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## Shako (25/11/13)

Thanks. Will be awaiting the great news.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Silver (26/11/13)

Just for the newbies like me, can anyone explain how nicotine juice is made?

Say for example the VG flavourless 36mg juice that one gets locally.


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## Riaz (26/11/13)

Silver1 said:


> Just for the newbies like me, can anyone explain how nicotine juice is made?
> Say for example the VG flavourless 36mg juice that one gets locally.


 
where do u get it locally?


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## CraftyZA (26/11/13)

Riaz said:


> where do u get it locally?


Eciggies sells that gold label nicotine that you cannot read the label from.
R100 for 30ml
Crazy expensive...

Reactions: Like 1


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## ET (2/12/13)

Silver1 said:


> Just for the newbies like me, can anyone explain how nicotine juice is made?
> Say for example the VG flavourless 36mg juice that one gets locally.


 
well the stuff we get locally is pure nicotine diluted in VG to a strength of 36mg/ml. the VG is itself thinned down with distilled water so that it isn't so thick like VG normally is.


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## Andre (2/12/13)

Silver1 said:


> Just for the newbies like me, can anyone explain how nicotine juice is made?
> Say for example the VG flavourless 36mg juice that one gets locally.


As I understand it, nicotine is extracted from plant material (many plants other than tobacco contains nicotine) and then dissolved in either PG or VG to various concentrations. PG/VG acts both as carrier and preservative.


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## Andre (2/12/13)

denizenx said:


> well the stuff we get locally is pure nicotine diluted in VG to a strength of 36mg/ml. the VG is itself thinned down with distilled water so that it isn't so thick like VG normally is.


Personally I would thin with PG if required. Think one would only use distilled water if you prefer a 100 % VG juice - just a touch to make the juice more functional. Many people, however, use 100 % VG as is.


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## Derick (2/12/13)

Silver1 said:


> Just for the newbies like me, can anyone explain how nicotine juice is made?
> Say for example the VG flavourless 36mg juice that one gets locally.


 
You can also extract your own from tobacco - if you google a bit there are people who have done it. Problem is, the tobacco you buy from tobacco stores have already been treated with around 2500 chemicals, so you might as well smoke then 

Unless you can get some 'organic' tobacco leaves from a farm somewhere, where they haven't used pesticides or other chemicals on it

Reactions: Like 1


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## Silver (2/12/13)

Thanks for all the feedback and insightful comments. 

I find it very interesting what Derick says above about extracting from tobacco. The point he makes that extracting from tobacco bought at a shop may contain lots of chemicals. 

So how do we know where the nic comes from in the juices we buy? What if they are also exteacted from similar sources with lots of chemicals and not organic. Then maybe vaping is not really helping us healthwise. I have never seen any reference to where the nic comes from on any ejuice bottle ive got. Or whether its extracted from organic tobacco or chemically treated processed tobacco. 

Dont mean to alarm anyone but hopefully someone can put me at peace?


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## Stroodlepuff (2/12/13)

I feel that just the significant improvement in my general health is proof enough that it is better for you! Along with all the studies being done.

Nicotine itself is not the big problem with stinkies - Nic is found in alot of fruits and vegetables which we eat in our daily lives such as tomatoes, eggplant etc. Its the other 4000 chemicals that are cause for alarm! So I wouldnt be too worried about that - nicotine is a chemical yes but in my opinion 3 chemicals (If you are using a VG/PG base) is waaaay better than 4000 even if it is not 100% safe

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Silver (2/12/13)

Hi Stroodle, yes you are right and i have no problem with nic

Its just the way it is produced that i am asking about.


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## Andre (2/12/13)

I can not think that any one would extract nicotine from a tobacco ready for smoking - just does not make commercial sense. Nicotine is extracted from the plants and to a purity of 99%+. So, what you get in ejuice is pure nicotine. Like in the nicotine chewing gums. Nicotine extraction is done by big labs like Johnson & Johnson. USP grade nicotine (which vendors use) is 99.8 % pure and contains no preservatives or chemical additives.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Silver (2/12/13)

Ok thanks, thats what i needed to hear


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## Derick (2/12/13)

Silver1 said:


> Thanks for all the feedback and insightful comments.
> 
> 
> Dont mean to alarm anyone but hopefully someone can put me at peace?


 
I think if you buy a reputable brand, then you are safe. The liqua guys for example use USP (or higher) grade nicotine - meaning it is something like 99.7% pure

Reactions: Like 1


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## Silver (2/12/13)

Ok thanks Derick. Good to know

Reactions: Like 1


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## Andre (12/12/13)

Welcome to the forum, Angelos Hadjistavri. Please take some time to introduce yourself in this thread: http://www.ecigssa.co.za/index.php?threads/introduce-yourselves.24/. And please do tell us what is your connection with the vendor you refer to.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Slow Blow (20/4/14)

Pure nicotine is classed as highly toxic, if not handled correctly even a whiff will kill you, most e-liquid makers buy it already tinned down to below 36mg/l, don't try mixing pure nic' yourself even if you can get your hands on some.

Reactions: Disagree 1


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## ET (20/4/14)

a whiff will not kill you, don't make some poor person crap their pants 
there was another article here on the forum nicely explaining all the different nic levels and their dangers but i can't find it right now


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## Derick (20/4/14)

The LD50 of nicotine is 0.5-1.0 mg/kg for adults and and 0.1 mg/kg for children.

So let's say you weigh 80Kg, you would have to ingest (or inhale) 40 - 80mg of pure nicotine and you would have a 50% chance of it killing you - that is if you can keep the nicotine down, because one of the first symptoms of nicotine poisoning is nausea and vomiting.

So in the case of e-liquid - let's say 1.8% solution - that is 1.8mg per ml, you would have to drink (and keep down) around 40ml - 80 ml - so 4 - 8 10ml bottles for it to have a 50% chance of killing you.

All in all, it sounds to me like you would have to be pretty determined to get poisoned (and killed) by e-liquid.

And I guess if you inhale enough of the pure nicotine vapour (to get up to 80mg into your bloodstream) it could also have the same chances of killing - but I seriously doubt a mere whiff will kill you.

It can also be absorbed into the blood stream with skin contact, but you would have to have lots of pure nicotine on your skin and you would have to leave it there for a long time before it can come close to killing you.

And this is all based on people not having smoked or had contact with nicotine in any way - for a heavy smoker that has built up a tolerance for nicotine, it would take a lot more to kill him.

So yes, it is dangerous, and can kill you, but it's not like you are dealing with plutonium here, some general safety procedures to keep you safe is fine - the same kinda precautions you would take working with ammonia and bleach and various other chemicals in your house that can kill you just as easily.

So we get pure nicotine (well 99.93% pure), but we don't mix it ourselves - not because I think it is too dangerous for me to work with, but because we have kids in the house and I don't want any accidents to happen. Also, I don't want to contaminate the stuff I work with - will definitely not be nice to find a cat hair or whatever floating around in one of your e-liquids

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 3 | Useful 1


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## Angelos Hadjistavri (20/4/14)

Well said Derik. I totally agree with you.

Reactions: Like 1


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## JakesSA (20/4/14)

Recent evidence shows that the probable lethal limit of nicotine is much higher than originally thought, in the region of 500mg - 1000mg or LD 50 of 6.5 - 13 mg/kg estimated. 
Like a lot of numbers in 'modern' science the original figure was guesstimated more than a century ago and never verified thereafter.
See:
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00204-013-1127-0??

Whilst 1000mg of nicotine may sound like a high number it amounts to very, very little. If you are lucky enough to source pure nicotine, have it delivered to and cut by a lab like @Derick does, please!

At 1.8mg per ml, a 30ml bottle will contain 54mg or one 1/10th of the bottom lethal level.

A BIG THANKS to the liquid suppliers who put child proof caps on their products. Always better to be safe than sorry. 
One question though, my bottles are marked 18mg, does that mean 18mg per 10ml then? Should this not rather be marked 1.8mg/ml or as a percentage so that the nicotine content is clear to everybody?


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## Die Kriek (20/4/14)

JakesSA said:


> One question though, my bottles are marked 18mg, does that mean 18mg per 10ml then? Should this not rather be marked 1.8mg/ml or as a percentage so that the nicotine content is clear to everybody?



Nicotine in e-liquid is measured at mg/ml, but the /ml part is dropped when printed, mainly because it's shorter, and most e-liquid labels don't have a lot of space. If your bottle says 18mg, then it's 18mg/ml, not 18mg total. 

Some companies do use different ways to mark their nic level, most common of those is %, where 1% = 10mg/ml. Another one that is mainly used by Twisp is mg/drop, which equates to around 1/20 of a milliliter, so 0.9mg/drop = 18mg/ml 

Source: @Silver

Reactions: Like 2


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## JakesSA (20/4/14)

Ok so that means 18mg is 1.8% and not 1.8mg as per @Derick 's post above. 

So my calculation was also wrong and should read:
At 18mg per ml, a 30ml bottle will contain 540mg which is at the bottom end of a probable lethal dose for an adult.


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## Die Kriek (20/4/14)

As 


JakesSA said:


> Ok so that means 18mg is 1.8% and not 1.8mg as per @Derick 's post above.
> 
> So my calculation was also wrong and should read:
> At 18mg per ml, a 30ml bottle will contain 540mg which is at the bottom end of a probable lethal dose for an adult.


far as I know, yes. The pro's like @Silver and @Matthee will have to confirm though


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## Angelos Hadjistavri (20/4/14)

As you all know I am a professional eliquid producer so I have the knowledge and experience of handling nicotine. So let's do some chemistry to clarify things.

Fact: I Kg of pure nicotine = 1,15 lt = 1150 ml

So, if we say 18 mg/ml that means the content of nicotine in 1 ml is 18 mg. (This is called in chemistry terms measurement by weight).

if we say 1.8% that means in 1 ml the nicotine content is 0,18 ml. (this is called measurement by volume). The equivalent of this is 15,65 mg/ml.

In my opinion the first method (by weight) is the best since it is much easier for the consumer to calculate how much nicotine he/ she is consuming every day.

The later method is used from various producers just to confuse the consumers (in my opinion always) since most people think that 18mg/ml is the same as the 1,8%. But the fact is that retailers that are selling 1.8% nicotine compaired to the retailers that sell 18 mg/ml are having 15% more profit.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 3


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## Die Kriek (20/4/14)

Wow, thank you for that @Angelos Hadjistavri. Lesson learned

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Derick (20/4/14)

Sorry yes, you are correct, math was never my strong subject


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## Derick (20/4/14)

As for the mg vs % markings - initially people marked in mg because that is what smokers know, but when it comes to liquid, you are 'supposed' to mark in percentage - like you do with alcohol.

There is no 'law' to do either one, we just prefer the % marking


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## JakesSA (20/4/14)

All good, thanks for clearing that up @Derick


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## Derick (20/4/14)

JakesSA said:


> Recent evidence shows that the probable lethal limit of nicotine is much higher than originally thought, in the region of 500mg - 1000mg or LD 50 of 6.5 - 13 mg/kg estimated.
> Like a lot of numbers in 'modern' science the original figure was guesstimated more than a century ago and never verified thereafter.
> See:
> http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00204-013-1127-0??
> ...



Yes you are correct here - the initial nicotine tests that the LD50 is based on, were not very scientifically done - so we are not 100% certain how poisonous it is, an nobody really wants to test poisonous substances on humans - and different animals have different tolerances, so you can't really infer how poisonous it is to humans by doing tests on rats or other animals.

But as an interesting note - there were more poisonings reported to the CDC last year from toothpaste than there were from nicotine


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## Derick (20/4/14)

Angelos Hadjistavri said:


> if we say 1.8% that means in 1 ml the nicotine content is 0,18 ml. (this is called measurement by volume). The equivalent of this is 15,65 mg/ml.



I must admit, I'm having trouble understanding this - can you explain how you get 15.65 mg/ml?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## theturtle (20/4/14)

Hi there. First time on this forum and a new vaper. Got into DIY but have a question. I am battling to find 36% flavourless nicotine. Which of these are the nicest: SkyBlue, UlimateVape, Blue Cloud, Valley Vapour or E-Ciggies? I just wanna share an incredible supplier of flavours in Randburg called Creative Flavours.


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## Rob Fisher (20/4/14)

theturtle said:


> Hi there. First time on this forum and a new vaper. Got into DIY but have a question. I am battling to find 36% flavourless nicotine. Which of these are the nicest: SkyBlue, UlimateVape, Blue Cloud, Valley Vapour or E-Ciggies? I just wanna share an incredible supplier of flavours in Randburg called Creative Flavours.



Don't forget @Oupa at Vapour Mountain! 

http://www.ecigssa.co.za/threads/vapour-mountain-premium-e-liquid-and-diy-mixing-kits.70/


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## Derick (20/4/14)

Derick said:


> I must admit, I'm having trouble understanding this - can you explain how you get 15.65 mg/ml?



Ok, this is really bugging me, so here are my calculations - like I said, math is not my strong point, so please correct me if I am wrong:

Nicotine has a density of 1.01g /ml (source) or 1010mg/ml 

So 1kg would be 1010 ml (dunno how you get 1150)

So let's say I take 98.2ml PG and add 1.8ml nicotine = 100ml solution containing 1.8ml nicotine or an 1.8% nicotine solution 

1.8ml nicotine works out to 1.8 x 1010 = 1818 mg of nicotine in this 100ml sollution

which works out to 18.18 mg/ml 

where do you get 15.65?


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## Andre (21/4/14)

I also have it that 1.8 % equals 18 mg per ml. Do prefer the 18 mg notation as that is what is most commonly used in the vaping world.


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## theturtle (21/4/14)

@Rob Fisher -thanks for info but when I go to the site it tells me it's under construction. Help!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## johan (21/4/14)

His website is not up and running yet, just pm @Oupa and he will respond.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Rob Fisher (21/4/14)

theturtle said:


> @Rob Fisher -thanks for info but when I go to the site it tells me it's under construction. Help!



Yip his site is not yet up... all you need to do is email @Oupa at info@vapourmountain.co.za and tell him what size bottles you want, the nic content and the flavour! Boom! A week later there is a parcel at your door!


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## theturtle (21/4/14)

Thanks. Tell me how do I pm him if I want


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## johan (21/4/14)

@theturtle go to your profile, click on "conversation", clik on "Start a new Conversation" and add "Oupa" in "participants"


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## Andre (21/4/14)

theturtle said:


> Thanks. Tell me how do I pm him if I want
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Below your Avatar and name "Start a Conversation". Click on that. Then fill in "Oupa", a title and you message and send. Ah, @johan beat me to it.


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## theturtle (21/4/14)

Thanks


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Slow Blow (22/4/14)

18ml means 18 Milli liters per 1000 Milli liters ( per liter) basically this means there is 1.8% of nicotine in a litre of e-juice.
The next question is 1.8mg calculated by weight per kilo or weight of volume (per liter), if its weight of volume then there is less that 1.8mg per kilogram of e-juice and more than 18ml per liter.

I hope this clears things up a bit.


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## Riaz (22/4/14)

?what each of you is saying makes sense, but in many different versions, and this is confusing the crap out of me

the resellers of nicotine should be able to give us definite answers on this

Reactions: Agree 1


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## drew (22/4/14)

Could someone please re-state the question? Not sure if I'm answering the right question but if it's the difference between percentage and mg then it's something simple that is being over complicated. I have rounded off the values for easier understanding.

A bottle labeled 18mg will be the same as 1.8%.
Pure nicotine is 1000mg/ml
18mg/ml is 1.8% of 1000mg/ml


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## Riaz (22/4/14)

if you have a 30ml bottle of 36mg nicotine, does that mean that 1ml = 3.6mg nicotine?


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## Derick (22/4/14)

It should work out to the same - 1.8% should be = 18mg/ml 

But if you as a nicotine mixer mix by weight, you have to take into consideration that VG weighs more per ml than PG 

which is why it is easier to mix by volume (%)

Either way, the end consumer can test DIY liquid and see what your nicotine content is - doubt there is a nicotine test kit available locally (yet), but if you google there are plenty available internationally


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## drew (22/4/14)

Riaz said:


> if you have a 30ml bottle of 36mg nicotine, does that mean that 1ml = 3.6mg nicotine?



No, each ml contains 36mg. The bottle contains a total of 1080 mg of nicotine.


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## Derick (22/4/14)

Riaz said:


> if you have a 30ml bottle of 36mg nicotine, does that mean that 1ml = 3.6mg nicotine?




The 36mg is 36mg per ml - so 100ml = 360 mg of nicotine - certainly enough to kill you should you choose to drink it

EDIT:
Sorry math (sigh)

36 x 100 = 3600mg of nic


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## Riaz (22/4/14)

so if i want 9mg in a 30ml bottle, how much ml nic do i need?


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## Riaz (22/4/14)

Derick said:


> The 36mg is 36mg per ml - so 100ml = 360 mg of nicotine - certainly enough to kill you should you choose to drink it
> 
> EDIT:
> Sorry math (sigh)
> ...



was just gona ask about that now LOL

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Derick (22/4/14)

Riaz said:


> so if i want 9mg in a 30ml bottle, how much ml nic do i need?


pure nic you would need 9mg for every ml of nic - but I would not recommend getting pure nic even if you can

if you use 36mg/ml nic base and want to make 9mg, well then it is just very simple math

36/9 = 4

So you would have to dilute your 36mg nic 4 times to get it to 9mg

so 1 part 36mg and 3 parts zero mg (pure VG or PG  )

But there are plenty of calculators online to help you work this out (and we've all seen how my maths suck, so rather use the online calculators  )


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## Rob Fisher (22/4/14)

OMG - So much easier to get my stuff from @Oupa!

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## RezaD (22/4/14)

Riaz said:


> so if i want 9mg in a 30ml bottle, how much ml nic do i need?


7.5ml (25% of 30ml/ 25% of 36mg (9mg)


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## Derick (22/4/14)

Rob Fisher said:


> OMG - So much easier to get my stuff from @Oupa!



Yep DIY is for hobbyists


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## Riaz (22/4/14)

Derick said:


> pure nic you would need 9mg for every ml of nic - but I would not recommend getting pure nic even if you can
> 
> if you use 36mg/ml nic base and want to make 9mg, well then it is just very simple math
> 
> ...



great stuff, thanks @Derick

i was just checking to see if the calculator (e juice me up) corresponds to what was being said here, and your answer is spot on!!!

when making a 30ml juice, using 36mg nic, you need 7.5ml nic to get 9mg

thanks again


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## Derick (22/4/14)

Riaz said:


> or lets make it easier, 36mg nic in a 100ml bottle
> 
> so that means that each ml of nic is 36mg nic strength
> 
> ...


 Phew! ok cool - my 15 year old sometimes points out my maths mistakes - glad I was right this time  But like I said, use the apps, then it is pretty straight forward

the fun comes in is when you now want to add flavour... Because if you add flavour to your mix, you are diluting your nic, making it less mg/ml - and that is where the online calculators come in handy


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## Riaz (22/4/14)

Derick said:


> Phew! ok cool - my 15 year old sometimes points out my maths mistakes - glad I was right this time  But like I said, use the apps, then it is pretty straight forward
> 
> the fun comes in is when you now want to add flavour... Because if you add flavour to your mix, you are diluting your nic, making it less mg/ml - and that is where the online calculators come in handy



very true

i usually mix, test and then add nic afterwards


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## Rob Fisher (22/4/14)

Derick said:


> Yep DIY is for hobbyists



Big time! And I stop at coil making!

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Derick (22/4/14)

Riaz said:


> very true
> 
> i usually mix, test and then add nic afterwards


Good idea - I usually make a small batch of 18mg, then add flavours - knowing that it would be less than 18mg once flavours are added - then I play with the calculators to make a large batch that is exactly 18 with flavour

But I actually like your idea better - will give it a go


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## Riaz (22/4/14)

Rob Fisher said:


> Big time! And I stop at coil making!



dont you ever feel that some juice sometimes would be nicer with a little bit of this or a little bit of that?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Derick (22/4/14)

Rob Fisher said:


> Big time! And I stop at coil making!



The thing is, have you not ever wondered what bubblegum with banana, strawberry and chocolate would taste like?


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## Riaz (22/4/14)

Derick said:


> The thing is, have you not ever wondered what bubblegum with banana, strawberry and chocolate would taste like?



this is why i started mixing my own juice

i found that i started to add menthol to everything, but that died out quickly and the range of concentrate is so plentiful that i had to start experimenting


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## Derick (22/4/14)

Yeah, we got bulk 5 flavours in for our range, but I also got around 50 different samples from all over to play with - can't wait, hopefully all arriving this week


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## Rob Fisher (22/4/14)

Riaz said:


> dont you ever feel that some juice sometimes would be nicer with a little bit of this or a little bit of that?



Yes I do and I do have concentrates I play with but I leave the Nicotine levels alone... I should not be allowed to play with that... it's bad enough I have a toolbox with sharp objects in it!

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Riaz (22/4/14)

Rob Fisher said:


> Yes I do and I do have concentrates I play with but I leave the Nicotine levels alone... I should not be allowed to play with that... it's bad enough I have a toolbox with sharp objects in it!





i think this is probably just a phase im going through and will probably revert back to buying liquid from the guys, but for now im going all out and gona make the best of it while it lasts LOL

Reactions: Like 3


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## Kareem (22/4/14)

When mixing I use this rule. For every 1ml nic/10ml bottle = 3.6. So 2ml = 7.2, 3ml = 10.8, 5ml = 18. Then I just add flavour, PG & VG. To make a 30ml I just times by 3.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Silver (24/4/14)

@Riaz, how are your own concotions comparing to the ready made juices we buy?


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## Riaz (24/4/14)

Silver said:


> @Riaz, how are your own concotions comparing to the ready made juices we buy?



i am loving every single bit of it man!

i mix n match them, and so far its been awesome


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## Silver (24/4/14)

So what flavours are you using? The ones from VM?


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## Riaz (24/4/14)

Silver said:


> So what flavours are you using? The ones from VM?



yes all from VM

currently in mix are:

peach
berry
menthol

speaking of, i need to place another order of concentrates.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Riaz (24/4/14)

Riaz said:


> yes all from VM
> 
> currently in mix are:
> 
> ...



just added some cotton candy to the order as well

im guessing a hint of that will go well with the menthol

now just for skyblue to get the nic back in stock


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## Derick (24/4/14)

Riaz said:


> just added some cotton candy to the order as well
> 
> im guessing a hint of that will go well with the menthol
> 
> now just for skyblue to get the nic back in stock



Just waiting for our lab dude to let us know when it is ready - nice big 30L batch this time, so it will be a while before we run out


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## RezaD (24/4/14)

Derick said:


> Just waiting for our lab dude to let us know when it is ready - nice big 30L batch this time, so it will be a while before we run out



You really think 30 litres is going to last?


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## Derick (24/4/14)

RezaD said:


> You really think 30 litres is going to last?



haha - well there is enough nic left for him to make another 30L or so, plus nic takes about a week to come in from our supplier, so I seriously doubt we will run out again 

Just heard from him actually and we will go pick up from the lab on Saturday afternoon, so by early Sat evening the stock should be loaded on the site


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## Riaz (24/4/14)

dammit i was hoping it would be sooner

im running on the last few drops at home


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## Derick (24/4/14)

Riaz said:


> dammit i was hoping it would be sooner
> 
> im running on the last few drops at home



yeah, he can courier it to us, but 30kg+ via a courier is seriously going to rip us a new one - so we opted to pick up rather


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## Riaz (24/4/14)

ok ill just have to wait it out


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## Xhale (6/5/14)

hey..is there any limits to the max nic strength that I can import into s.a?..as an individual, before require a posions license or something


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## Derick (6/5/14)

Vern said:


> hey..is there any limits to the max nic strength that I can import into s.a?..as an individual, before require a posions license or something



There is no hard and fast rule that customs follow - sometimes they will let it in and sometimes they won't, sometimes they will only let it in after they have brought in health officials to inspect it (and you pay for that too)

So it is a crap shoot unless you are a pharmacist with an nicotine import permit from the dept of health


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## Xhale (6/5/14)

thank you


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## Derick (6/5/14)

Why do you want to import though? - at last count there is 4 local suppliers of nicotine and I believe most of them will work out cheaper than importing


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## Andre (6/5/14)

Vern said:


> hey..is there any limits to the max nic strength that I can import into s.a?..as an individual, before require a posions license or something


It is actually illegal without paperwork from the Dept. of Health, which I will not even try. In practice, as @Derick says.


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## Xhale (6/5/14)

Derick said:


> Why do you want to import though? - at last count there is 4 local suppliers of nicotine and I believe most of them will work out cheaper than importing


imagine a world where I want to set up my own vape shop in S.A.
I'm currently paying around $60/litre for 70mg delivered. I'd like to keep that relationship intact, but you guys would know the law best so thats why I ask


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## Gizmo (6/5/14)

Derick said:


> Why do you want to import though? - at last count there is 4 local suppliers of nicotine and I believe most of them will work out cheaper than importing



I found that to be incorrect, however, to get it legally signed off by a respectable pharmacist in SA you need to get your nicotine locally sourced and pre-mixed in a lab


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## Alex (6/5/14)

Vern said:


> imagine a world where I want to set up my own vape shop in S.A.
> I'm currently paying around $60/litre for 70mg delivered. I'd like to keep that relationship intact, but you guys would know the law best so thats why I ask



woah, that sounds like a great deal.


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## Derick (6/5/14)

Alex said:


> woah, that sounds like a great deal.


Yep, if it is legally imported, there is a 45% import duty on nicotine - so not such a great deal anymore - if they mark it customs friendly - so not so legal anymore, then perhaps you can get away with not paying the fee

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Xhale (6/5/14)

Derick said:


> Yep, if it is legally imported, there is a 45% import duty on nicotine - so not such a great deal anymore - if they mark it customs friendly - so not so legal anymore, then perhaps you can get away with not paying the fee


thank you Derick, for the useful reply. So S.A,. customs duty is 45%.
Nobody is talking about breaking the law, I hope, I believe I asked the question for the exact purposes of complying with the law and working out the costs to see if it is worthwhile. I currently DIY a lot, and should I decide to move back to S.A. I need to consider the possibility of having this current nic supplier cut off, either due to costs, shipment restrictions etc. I previously owned a vape shop in the uk so the possibility of doing it again is always on my mind too.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Derick (6/5/14)

Vern said:


> thank you Derek, for the useful reply. So S.A,. customs duty is 45%.
> Nobody is talking about breaking the law, I hope, I believe I asked the question for the exact purposes of complying with the law and working out the costs to see if it is worthwhile. I currently DIY a lot, and should I decide to move back to S.A. I need to consider the possibility of having this current nic supplier cut off, either due to costs, shipment restrictions etc. I previously owned a vape shop in the uk so the possibility of doing it again is always on my mind too.


Ah ok, now I understand 
Best bet if you want to start a vape shop in SA is to get yourself a pharmacist with a nicotine import permit from the dept of health - once you have that, then you can import any concentration from anywhere
there is also a local supplier of pure nicotine, but their prices are almost 10 times the price of importing it, so I don't believe any of the local vape shops are looking at that.

SA customs will allow personal imports of e-liquid - up to 3 months supply, but that is also a hit and miss scenario - seems to depend on the person that is on duty at the time your package comes through

Reactions: Informative 2


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## Andre (7/5/14)

Derick said:


> Ah ok, now I understand
> Best bet if you want to start a vape shop in SA is to get yourself a pharmacist with a nicotine import permit from the dept of health - once you have that, then you can import any concentration from anywhere
> there is also a local supplier of pure nicotine, but their prices are almost 10 times the price of importing it, so I don't believe any of the local vape shops are looking at that.
> 
> SA customs will allow personal imports of e-liquid - up to 3 months supply, but that is also a hit and miss scenario - seems to depend on the person that is on duty at the time your package comes through


So we need the name of your pharmacist!


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## Derick (7/5/14)

Matthee said:


> So we need the name of your pharmacist!


Problem is, with everything being pretty much in flux right now, he is not sure he wants his name published, for fear of it having ramifications for his career later on.
So he is willing to do it for us, as we have some history, but that is about it I'm afraid


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## Andre (7/5/14)

Derick said:


> Problem is, with everything being pretty much in flux right now, he is not sure he wants his name published, for fear of it having ramifications for his career later on.
> So he is willing to do it for us, as we have some history, but that is about it I'm afraid


I would have done exactly that were I in his shoes.


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## Derick (7/5/14)

Matthee said:


> I would have done exactly that were I in his shoes.


Yep, I perfectly understand it as well (and it took some convincing from us to get him to do it) - maybe one day once the govt has made the regulations clear, perhaps he will be more willing to help other people as well - but by then I would think that lots of pharmacists would be willing to help out

Reactions: Like 1


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## JakesSA (7/5/14)

I see the FDA has started making their intentions clear on e-cigarettes as well.

From what I gather (and it is a rather looong document) all e-cigarettes devices introduced post 2007 and e-liquids will have to be FDA approved which if, implemented, will exclude all players except for the very largest e.g. tobacco companies and _maybe_ the biggest of the e-cigarette manufacturers. 99.99% of the custom e-liquid and mod manufacturers in the States will be out of business immediately not being able to afford the 'approval' process.

See the FDA doc here:
http://www.ofr.gov/(S(axtmtr20nu1bl20q4r3shcjt))/OFRUpload/OFRData/2014-09491_PI.pdf??

I could be wrong about this but came across this after reading the document
http://motherboard.vice.com/read/th...ke-on-new-fda-regulations-but-not-big-tobacco??

Hope this interpretation is wrong..

This is the ultimate outcome of capitalism where every law is for sale.

America, Land of Fear, Home to the Slave.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Derick (7/5/14)

JakesSA said:


> I see the FDA has started making their intentions clear on e-cigarettes as well.
> 
> From what I gather (and it is a rather looong document) all e-cigarettes devices introduced post 2007 and e-liquids will have to be FDA approved which if, implemented, will exclude all players except for the very largest e.g. tobacco companies and _maybe_ the biggest of the e-cigarette manufacturers. 99.99% of the custom e-liquid and mod manufacturers in the States will be out of business immediately not being able to afford the 'approval' process.
> 
> ...


Yep, there is a thread somewhere were this was posted and discussed - but it is important to remember that these are not regulations, but only proposed regulations - it will go through quite a few rounds of discussion before becoming regulation


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## johan (7/5/14)

You've punched it on the nail @JakesSA money is the only thing that buys the "wiskey" in the USA


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## JakesSA (7/5/14)

Like the rounds of discussion we had on the toll gates I guess... 

But I digress .. sorry I should have posted this FDA thing elsewhere. Not really relevant to nicotine suppliers in SA although ... this may now become an even more important topic if the current suppliers are located in the States.


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## Puff&Pass (17/3/15)

JakesSA said:


> Recent evidence shows that the probable lethal limit of nicotine is much higher than originally thought, in the region of 500mg - 1000mg or LD 50 of 6.5 - 13 mg/kg estimated.
> Like a lot of numbers in 'modern' science the original figure was guesstimated more than a century ago and never verified thereafter.
> See:
> http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00204-013-1127-0??
> ...


It is actually 18mg/1ml, so 180mg in ur bottle.


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