# I will never buy another RTA or RDA atomizer with tiny grub screws



## Waine (8/10/16)

Since I started vaping, I have always been dubious about the tiny fragile grub screws that are on most of the rebuildable tanks I have purchased. I have read that some vapers dislike these and refuse to buy tanks with them. I am now one of these vapers. I was waiting for my day to come when one of these little pieces of excuses for screws would strip.

Before I continue, I want to emphasise that I have tempered all my grub screws in order to strengthen these. (Big Guy from Sir Vape recently made a video clip showing how to do this with a blow torch and Olive Oil) Secondly, I ALWAYS screw these grubs in gently without using too much pressure as I am mindful of how easy these are prone to stripping.

I am not knocking the Fuji GTA RTA in particular, but today I was building a single coil, 5 wrap on it. I was trying to screw in the one grub screw, but it would not absorb into the wire. It got stuck and stripped. After an hour I managed to remove it and replace it. I must say, I have always battled to get thin wire in these posts with the grubs, so I had to go with thicker wire.

Here are some pics:




The grub screw on this single coil Fuji GTA got stuck. I was using the correct allan key.




As you can see, it is rounded and stripped, the hexagonal shape is now a circle.



Turned around, the other grub screw is OK, retaining its hex shape.



Bad quality pics, but you can see the left one, which I had to "Pull a Rabbit out of the hat" to remove is round, and the right one is OK. I removed it by forcing a bigger hex screw driver in and pushing hard until it sunk into the metal and basically formed another hole.




I opened the Fuji GTA box, took out a spare grub screw and it fitted perfectly. Yes, this is not the tool it came with, but the red screw driver tool it came with is exactly the same size!

Conclusion:

I will only buy an RDA or RTA if it has decent size Phillips or Flat head screws. I cannot imagine having to deal with this problem again and perhaps it cannot be removed resulting in me having to give it to my engineer friend to remove it out with precision equipment.

And so we vape on, and learn...

Reactions: Like 2 | Can relate 1


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## Raindance (8/10/16)

@Waine tempering can have negative effects on material that has been forged as it in fact returns the metals crystalline structure to that of the softer pre forging matrix. This then makes it softer and more malleable, hence the deformation you experienced.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## zadiac (8/10/16)

That is why I make my own grub screws with a slotted head

Reactions: Like 1


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## Waine (8/10/16)

Raindance said:


> @Waine tempering can have negative effects on material that has been forged as it in fact returns the metals crystalline structure to that of the softer pre forging matrix. This then makes it softer and more malleable, hence the deformation you experienced.



@Raindance OK. Thanks for that information. In fact, to highlight your assertion, the screws did feel softer after tempering. I have learned something. However, my opinion on buying more RTA's and RDA's with these type of grub screws still stands. They really are too weak and flimsy for my bombastic work style, I guess. 

Have a look at the Pharoah RDA screws. Now we are talking strength.





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Reactions: Like 1 | Creative 1


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## Raindance (8/10/16)

Waine said:


> @Raindance OK. Thanks for that information. In fact, to highlight your assertion, the screws did feel softer after tempering. I have learned something. However, my opinion on buying more RTA's and RDA's with these type of grub screws still stands. They really are too weak and flimsy for my bombastic work style, I guess.
> 
> Have a look at the Pharoah RDA screws. Now we are talking strength.
> 
> ...


That is a good looking build deck!


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## Petrus (8/10/16)

I agree, I have also bought atty's with crap grub screws, but to be honest I paid a crappie price for the atty. They call it " Ek het skoolgeld betaal" All / Most of the high end atty's have decent grub screws.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Informative 1


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## 4RML (8/10/16)

It is the tool you are using and plus you can buy a package of grub nuts at any good bolt store ... Even tooth brushes can brake , and that I will say is kaaaaak . The steel they use for the tools they give us is the cheapest and rounds off very easy so it doesn't keep the inside of the grub sharp I have found , but look like good batteries so must our tools be. Like snap on , blue point this is good.

eighty rand , the point of the miss each other and bent in as little as two weeks. That's Plato .

.

blue point , and I stand corrected but I think it's a life time warranty from my rep .
Vape on


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## Waine (8/10/16)

So what Allan keys do you recommend? I do agree, the Allan (Is it Allan or Allen?) keys we get with the attys are really cheap, some even look deformed under the magnifying glass. 




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## 4RML (8/10/16)

Just pull into a tool store ask for tempered steel with a sample of the tool you need
... Might as well check if they got you some grub nuts as well.


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## Pixstar (8/10/16)

zadiac said:


> That is why I make my own grub screws with a slotted head


Hey @zadiac could you share some more info please. I hate RTA/RDA grub screws with a passion.


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## zadiac (8/10/16)

Pixstar said:


> Hey @zadiac could you share some more info please. I hate RTA/RDA grub screws with a passion.



I just take a normal screw that fits, cut off the head with the dremel and then use a .7mm cutting disc to cut a slot across. Bingo, slotted grub screw. It's easy if you have the tools, but you lose a cutting disc for every 3 or 4 screws you make unfortunately, but it's worth it. 
The discs are cheap.
Or you can buy slotted grub screws off ebay. Just search for it. They come in lots of 10 or 20 or 50 pieces for something like R50 or so with free shipping from China. Takes a while to get here, but once you have them, you have them.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Creative 1


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## Waine (8/10/16)

Just to expand, if I were to buy another RTA, I would buy something like this. Simply because of the type of screws. But the deck labelled "IMC 3" I would not want. The other decks all have strong looking screws. . I also enjoy the clamp style.


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## blujeenz (8/10/16)

zadiac said:


> Takes a while to get here, but once you have them, you have them.


Epic comment 
Sounds like a Fasttech slogan. 

@Waine if you just quenched the grub screws in oil that would have removed any temper and softened them.
Proper method after the first quench is to then heat the screw to a specific color for the hardness of desired temper, usually dark blue.
However not all metals can be tempered, usually only high carbon steels.
SS can be hardened to dark blue but its not a true temper per se.

Color chart for tempering, common range is from purple up to light blue.

Reactions: Informative 2


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## Warlock (9/10/16)

Austenitic stainless steel (304, 304l, 316, 316l) cannot be improved by conventional methods at home. They are used primarily because they are clean, appear clean, do not rust or scale or tarnish easily. In other words they look nice. The problem is that they are not very strong, and we use very small ones.

A high tensile grub is on average twice as strong as a stainless steel one, but it will rust, tarnish....and so no.

Stainless steel also “work hardens” so it is at its strongest after the rigors of manufacture, so don’t mess with it to try to make it stronger.

You can buy very strong hex keys (umbrako) in South Africa. They are usually black, the silver ones are usually iffy.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2


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## Waine (9/10/16)

@blujeenz So here I was, tempering all my grub screws and f$%^ing them up in the process. I wish I had started this thread before I jumped ahead and tempered all my grubs. Now I am "screwed". I dread to think what I will do when one gets stuck or stripped again. Getting a stripped grub out of the hole is super difficult.


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## blujeenz (9/10/16)

Waine said:


> @blujeenz So here I was, tempering all my grub screws and f$%^ing them up in the process. I wish I had started this thread before I jumped ahead and tempered all my grubs. Now I am "screwed". I dread to think what I will do when one gets stuck or stripped again. Getting a stripped grub out of the hole is super difficult.



Its not entirely a bleak scenario, your 2 options are to either redo the quench, or hit up a engineering supplies shop, whatever your equivalent of a Topfast or Nut and Bolt center is.

For option 1, redo the quench, heat to cherry red and drop it in oil. Then pull it out and file to reveal the shiny metal, usually on the bottom flat of the screw, this is so that you can see when it reaches the color of temper that you're aiming for ideally a purple or dark blue.
Then heat it up gently because that tiny grub will change color fast, and as soon as it reaches color, then drop it in oil.
I doubt that the hardness will exceed that of the original, but at least they wont be butter soft. 

Option 2(new SS grub screws) is probably best, dont go for tempered grubs because they will give you blackened steel( not so good in atomisers)

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Spydro (9/10/16)

I have very strong hands, so tightening things has always been something I have had to pay very close attention to most of my life. For me it's a touchy-feely thing with these small atty screws. Snug, pulse coils, snug again until I am happy with the feel, snug again after using the atty some. And I only use high quality tools, not the junk they include with the atty's. For hex grubs I prefer MIP Thorp drivers, and have never stripped even the tiniest grubs some of my often used atty's have with these drivers. They're not cheap, but they are wroth it to me. With any style screws supplied with atty's (grub, slotted, phillips) I have also often change them out with higher grade similar screws, or to high quality grubs. Luckily the ones I have with OEM screws (like for my 7 Chalice atty's where replacements can cost $9+ each plus International shipping if you can even find them, they come with very high quality screws. (Even so I have several spares for them bought when I had the chance to get them because the $150-$350+ atty's are worthless without them... especially the C-II with threadless micro slotted screws.)

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Warlock (9/10/16)

This is a reputable company in Pretoria, they say that they have these in stock.

http://www.screwman.co.za/products/...ucts/slotted-set-screws-with-cup-point-detail


Just be wary of the cup points, they tend to cut the wire.


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## Waine (9/10/16)

Thanks guys. I found a place in Pinetown that specialises in bolts and nuts. Going to pay them a visit.


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## Waine (11/10/16)

Just paging through the Sir Vape website today, checking out some awesome new stuff. You know how it goes? I have developed such a mindset against any RDA or RTA with those small grub screws. Seriously, it's become the determining factor as to whether I buy a particular RBA or not. The manufacturers should seriously move away from making these weak excuses for screws.

I mean we are paying a bit for the unit, why should we have to go out and buy different, stronger screws?


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## Glytch (11/10/16)

Waine said:


> Thanks guys. I found a place in Pinetown that specialises in bolts and nuts. Going to pay them a visit.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Let us know if you find what you're looking for. I'd certainly like to visit them. The screws on the Mutation X doesn't grip that great and would be interested to try replacements.


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## DougP (11/10/16)

I have been searching high and low for grub screws in Jhb area but can't find anybody selling them 
If anybody finds a place please let me know I will even pay somebody to make me a few


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## blujeenz (12/10/16)

I was going to suggest getting some SS threaded rod, but measuring the grubs in my Aromiser Supreme showed an odd size, 2.45mm in dia.
Possibly a metric fine M2.5x0.45, might not have a whole lot of luck finding that around.


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## KZOR (12/10/16)

@blujeenz
Have you tried Yebo electronics yet?
http://www.fort777.co.za/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=715_733

Also check :
http://www.boltit.co.za/p/297873/click-to-view-faseners-
no.11 on that page

Reactions: Thanks 1


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## blujeenz (12/10/16)

KZOR said:


> @blujeenz
> Have you tried Yebo electronics yet?
> http://www.fort777.co.za/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=715_733
> 
> ...



Wouldnt have thought of them for grubs, but I suspect they might be steel and not SS, still worth a shot... thanks.


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## Warlock (12/10/16)

Stainless steel grub screws (304 or 316)
Order before 09h00 in the morning ... get them same day free delivery in Gauteng.

Do not use cone point.
Do not use cup point.
Do not use knurled point.
Do not use half dog point.

Use only flat or domed point or cup point that you have filed flat.
Remember the Lefty loosey ... Righty tighty rule.
Use only the short end of the Allen key when tightening.(as a lever)Edit
Do not attempt to harden these grub screws ... you cannot.

When ordering from any reputable nut and bolt place, specify the screw as follows: M3 (this is the size, diameter) x 4 mm (this is the length) S/S (this is the material class) 304 (this is the grade) and then the end condition (flat point)
My Velocity V2 uses M3 grub screws. Others my differ.

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## zadiac (12/10/16)

Warlock said:


> Stainless steel grub screws (304 or 316)
> Order before 09h00 in the morning ... get them same day free delivery in Gauteng.
> 
> Do not use cone point.
> ...



All good and well. Thank you for the info, but WHERE do we order this from? Are you sending us on a treasure hunt?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Warlock (12/10/16)

@zadiac From earlier post above.
This is a reputable company in Pretoria, they say that they have these in stock.

http://www.screwman.co.za/products/...ucts/slotted-set-screws-with-cup-point-detail


Just be wary of the cup points, they tend to cut the wire.

Reactions: Thanks 1


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## zadiac (12/10/16)

Thanks @Warlock. Unfortunately my eyesight doesn't allow me to read small print that well....lol


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## Waine (12/10/16)

Thanks Warlock. Now I know what size to ask for. But I will obviously take a sample with me when I visit my local nut and bolt shop. My Velocity V1 RDA also has screws a bit bigger than the other RDA's.


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## DougP (13/10/16)

@Warlock 
Was really good meeting you today and thank you so much for the grub screws 
This has to be the best vape related item I have received. 
I have been searching high and low for these little suckers and finally I have a whole packet full 
Time to pull out some of those RTA's that have been gathering dust as their grub screws were stripped

Reactions: Like 1 | Thanks 1


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## Warlock (14/10/16)

You are most welcome @Blends Of Distinction Was great meeting you as well. And many thanks for the invaluable tips on recipe building and giving me insight to the dedication required to create excellent E-Liquids, not to mention the coil wrapping and wicking lesson

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