# 42% Australian vapers will go back to smokes



## Hooked (28/9/20)

*Media release: Largest ever survey of Australian vapers shows 42% will go back to the smokes if the 1 January 2020 vaping ban goes ahead.*
https://www.legalisevaping.com.au/m...s-if-the-1-january-2020-vaping-ban-goes-ahead
22 Sept. 2020

Legalise Vaping Australia has released the results of the largest ever survey of Australian vapers, which has shown some vapers will go back to the smokes should the 1 January vaping ban go ahead.

The survey of 6,733 Australian vapers found that 42% would likely go back to the smokes should the vaping ban proceed. Also of worry, some 37% said they would source their vapers from the black market should the band go ahead, while just under 7% of vaper support the proposed prescription model.

The key takeouts of the survey:

200,000 vapers will go back to smoking if the January 1st vaping ban goes ahead. 


Vapers overwhelming DO NOT support a prescription model for accessing vaping 


Vapers are now a powerful voting block. 400,000 vapers will consider their vaping intention based on a party that supports the legalisation of vaping
Legalise Vaping Australia, Campaign Director Brian Marlow said the survey results were the clearest indication yet that vaping needed to be legalised in Australia with appropriate standards.

“Ex-smokers should not need to choose between vaping and going back to the smokes, we need to legalise vaping to ensure vapers can access regulated products in Australia when they need it.”

“Vapers now form a powerful voting block, it is simply not good enough to send them back to the smokes should the vaping ban go ahead. MPs need to listen and do the right thing when it comes to reducing tobacco-related harm, by the legalisation vaping.”

You can view the full survey results here. 
Download the full survey data

Reactions: Informative 8


----------



## fbb1964 (28/9/20)

*Government delivers another knockout punch to vapers*
Posted on September 23, 2020

The AU vapers and vape industry have been dealt another hard blow with the latest interim decision by the AU government to go ahead with the proposed liquid nicotine vaping ban..

AUSTRALIAN GOVERNMENT has continued its vendetta against Australian smokers by making vaping nicotine even more difficult to access. Under the new interim announcement by the TGA (medicines regulator) today, vapers will need to get a doctor’s prescription and visit a pharmacy for nicotine supplies. The ruling is set to commence on 1 June 2021.

No other western country requires vapers to have a doctor’s prescription for nicotine liquid, yet alone visit a pharmacy to buy it

*Reasons for the decision*
The reasons given for the decision were flawed and show a strong bias in interpreting the evidence


Potential uptake of smoking in young adults (vaping is diverting young people from smoking)
Potential for adolescent brain development (no evidence in humans)
Uptake by non-smokers (rare)
Risks of nicotine addiction (minimal)
Unknown long-term effects (far less than smoking)
Insufficient evidence that vaping is effective as a quitting aid (more than sufficient evidence is available)
The result will be that fewer smokers will be able to switch to vaping, a far safer alternative, and more people will die a smoking-related death.

*How does the pharmacy model work?*







Vaper or smoker consults doctor and pays fee
Doctor assesses the patient and discusses other options if appropriate
If appropriate, doctor completes complex online form for an 'SAS-B' approval
TGA decides if approval will be granted
Patient returns to pick up the script if application accepted. A second fee may be charged.
Patient goes to pharmacist
Pharmacist orders supplies from wholesaler
Patient purchase from pharmacist with a generous pharmacy markup
Repeat yearly
*Will it work?*
The proposed plan is complex, time-consuming, costly and unworkable.

Vapers won't do it. Vapers currently require a simple nicotine prescription to vape legally but only about 1-2% have one. Very few will visit a doctor to get one. Vapers don’t see themselves as patients and don’t want medical treatment. Nicotine liquid is a consumer product, not a medicine.

GPs will not do it. Only 8 GPs in Australia have shown any interest in writing nicotine prescriptions. Most know very little about vaping and very few know how to write a prescription The new requirements are time-consuming and won’t be welcomed by GPs.

Pharmacist. The Pharmacy Guild stated in a submission earlier this year that it will not support the sale of vaporing products. Pharmacy staff have no expertise or training in vaping and will not be able to provide the expert support and advice of vape shops.






*Nicotine imports to be banned*
Vapers can still import nicotine with a prescription for now but this loophole will be closed soon with changes to the Customs (Prohibited Import) Regulations. Personal imports of nicotine will be banned from 1 January 2021 with a penalty of up to $222,000 for offenders without a prescription from a doctor.

*Why the TGA has failed again*
The TGA has missed an opportunity to have nicotine vaping products regulated in Australia. Australian consumers deserve manufacturing and safety standards, labelling standards, health warnings and child-proof containers. In spite of the Health Minster's concerns about dodgy products and child poisoning, no steps have been taken to correct these concerns.

The complex regulations will discourage smokers from switching to vaping. The black market will continue to thrive and Australia will continue to fall further behind other western countries in reducing smoking.

Australia’s retail vape industry will be decimated. Vape shops play a valuable role in helping smokers to quit. Staff are former smokers who vape and can give invaluable advice and support. Vape shops rely on e-liquid sales and will not survive without them.

If Australia's 520,000 vapers visit a doctor each year as advised, costs will range from $60-100 million per year for the taxpayer.

*What can vapers do?*
If you are concerned about these changes, please contact your local federal MP and senators with a video call, visit or phone call and explain how this will affect you.

Make a submission to the TGA by 6 October explaining what you think of this interim decision. A final decision will be issued later in the year.

Donate to ATHRA's campaign fund so we can continue to fight this on your behalf.

*Documents*
TGA interim decision

Information sheets for consumers, medical practitioners, pharmacists and Q&A

Full report here

https://www.athra.org.au/blog/2020/09/23/government-delivers-another-knockout-punch-to-vapers/

Reactions: Informative 6


----------



## Timwis (28/9/20)

fbb1964 said:


> The AU vapers and vape industry have been dealt another hard blow with the latest interim decision by the AU government to go ahead with the proposed liquid nicotine vaping ban..
> 
> AUSTRALIAN GOVERNMENT has continued its vendetta against Australian smokers by making vaping nicotine even more difficult to access. Under the new interim announcement by the TGA (medicines regulator) today, vapers will need to get a doctor’s prescription and visit a pharmacy for nicotine supplies. The ruling is set to commence on 1 June 2021.
> 
> ...




What a flawed system, in reality it will come down to if your doctor is pro vaping or not!

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


----------



## Tai (29/9/20)

Well, a pack of cigarettes in aus costs around R450. Pretty easy to see where governments motivation comes from

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 2


----------



## fbb1964 (29/9/20)

Timwis said:


> What a flawed system, in reality it will come down to if your doctor is pro vaping or not!


Exactly. 

ATHRA
19 September 2020

Another reason why Greg Hunt MP's plan for prescribing nicotine liquid for #vaping won't work: doctors are misinformed on nicotine.

A new study finds that 80% doctors in the US strongly believe (incorrectly) that nicotine causes cancer, cardiovascular and lung disease such as emphysema. Similar beliefs are likely in Australia.

How will Australia's 520,000 vapers get their nicotine prescriptions Greg Hunt MP?

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11606-020-06172-8

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


----------



## Timwis (29/9/20)

Tai said:


> Well, a pack of cigarettes in aus costs around R450. Pretty easy to see where governments motivation comes from


Yeah and most of that will be Taxes for the treasury!

Reactions: Like 3


----------



## fbb1964 (29/9/20)

Tai said:


> Well, a pack of cigarettes in aus costs around R450. Pretty easy to see where governments motivation comes from


Exactly.. 

ATHRA
Posted on October 23, 2019 

In 2015/16 smoking killed over 20,000 Australians and cost the country $136 billion, according to a new report. The report concludes that Australia 'needs to continue to invest in strategies to prevent and reduce smoking, and the associated significant morbidity and mortality’.

The government's response was to throw a few crumbs into tobacco control

The report Identifying the Social Costs of Tobacco Use to Australia in 2015/16 was prepared by the National Drug Research Institute at Curtin University and was launched by Health Minister Greg Hunt yesterday.

The Health Minister announced an additional $5 million for tobacco control, bringing the total allocation for a public education campaign for the next 4 years to $25 million.

ATHRA's view is that $6.25 million per year is a totally inadequate budget for the leading cause of preventable death and illness. This is a tiny portion of the $17.4 billion tobacco tax collected in the last financial year

https://www.athra.org.au/blog/2019/...ting-tax-dollars-before-the-health-of-smoker/

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## fbb1964 (29/9/20)

Timwis said:


> Yeah and most of that will be Taxes for the treasury!



I agree.. Imo South Africa will also be on the list of countries where this is now happening globally. Mobilise and start gearing up towards this vape fight might not seem a bad idea? JUST an opinion and suggestion nothing more.. Probably happening already I don't know the exact details of vaping advocacy happening in SA. Looking at how the sales ban on tobacco, vaping and alcohol was done during covid lockdowns in SA who knows what the SA govt have up their sleeve.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Timwis (29/9/20)

In the UK they did threaten to stop treating smokers or giving operations due to smoking related illnesses costing the NHS Xbillion £'s until it was pointed out that tax raised on cigarettes totalled <Xbillion £'s so actually smokers were subsidising rather than costing. For this reason most Governments are happy with the Status Quo because if everyone quit smoking all that revenue will stop coming in yet the cost in smoking related illnesses would still continue for a couple of decades so that money would need to come from somewhere. So in short Governments have to put on a show and pretend they want people to quit smoking but when something like Vaping comes along that can actually achieve that it becomes a threat to all that Government revenue!

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 2 | Winner 1


----------



## Puff the Magic Dragon (29/9/20)

fbb1964 said:


> A new study finds that 80% doctors in the US strongly believe (incorrectly) that nicotine causes cancer, cardiovascular and lung disease such as emphysema.


causes cancer, cardiovascular and lung disease such as emphysema.

If this is true then this is what explains the weird attitude towards vaping in America. Many potential vapers, and particularly parents of vapers, must have asked their doctors' opinion before attempting to quit smoking. If your trusted doctor tells you that the nic in vaping will cause "cancer, cardiovascular and lung disease such as emphysema" why would you try vaping?.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


----------



## Hooked (29/9/20)

Timwis said:


> What a flawed system, in reality it will come down to if your doctor is pro vaping or not!



Or if the doctor is willing to fill in the prescription form - and will the doctor charge the patient for the extra time in doing so? As it is, one is rushed out of a consultation within 10 - 15 mins!

Reactions: Like 4


----------



## fbb1964 (29/9/20)

Puff the Magic Dragon said:


> causes cancer, cardiovascular and lung disease such as emphysema.
> 
> If this is true then this is what explains the weird attitude towards vaping in America. Many potential vapers, and particularly parents of vapers, must have asked their doctors' opinion before attempting to quit smoking. If your trusted doctor tells you that the nic in vaping will cause "cancer, cardiovascular and lung disease such as emphysema" why would you try vaping?.


Exactly the GPs are getting their information from big pharma and it's all propoganda zero facts. Big tobacco gives the government the big tax revenue and big pharma makes big $$ out of smoking related health problems. And they have much bigger budgets and have been busy at this for a long time to do their propoganda war than what the vaping industry and vapers have to fight back. But here comes the kicker. Cancer Council, Lung council etc. (all the health NGOs vigorously opposing vaping) are all funded by big pharma. Big pharma are the major sponsors for these NGOs. It's all been uncovered and reported here in AU just looking at their websites where the sponsors are legally declared. All the biggest pharmaceutical companies feature on there.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## fbb1964 (29/9/20)

Interesting find in SA.. No facts yet again just pure propoganda imo 

https://cansa.org.za/legal-status-e-cigarettes-in-sa/

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## grouter (29/9/20)

fbb1964 said:


> Interesting find in SA.. No facts yet again just pure propoganda imo
> 
> https://cansa.org.za/legal-status-e-cigarettes-in-sa/


 What a complete load of absolute bollox CANSA is spouting there! Good God.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 4


----------

