# Harsh/pepper nic hit once steeped



## Morph699 (12/10/16)

Hey everyone,

Okay so ive been mixing flavours for about 2 months now and I cant seem to get away from either the peppery taste or a harsh nic hit.

I make my mixes in 500ml VG/PG bottles (not the transparent ones) as I need to make quite a lot for my customers. My nic strength is based on using a 100ml so I use no more than 20ml per bottle. What I mean by that is ive worked out how much nic to use for a 100ml and use the same amount when making 500ml's so the strength should be much less but its still too strong.

I have tried using both VG and PG based Nic but both give the harsh hit although the VG one isnt as harsh as the PG one.

I've tried adding everything and then doing a hot bath but then realised that thats what is 'killing' the nic so then tried to mix everything except the nic and give it a hot bath and after its cooled I add the nic but i still get a harsh flavour even after steeping for between 5-10 days as im only using fruity flavours.

I have now added everything into a bottle and am testing by not having any heat whatsoever. I will update in about a week or so as to how it tastes, hopefully it will better as ive made about 3L. 

Any assistance or tips would be greatly appreciated.


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## Soutie (12/10/16)

No heat is the way to go. The heat speeds up the oxidisation of the nicotine and will increase the throat hit. 

Natural steeping is the way to go. 2 to 4 weeks in a dark cupboard. Especially when making for other people, speed steeping juice is a really bad idea. 

Another consideration is to test your pg/vg/nic raw. i.e. As is, no flavors, no steeping. You might have gotten a bad batch of nic.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Morph699 (12/10/16)

Ahh ok perfect thank you so much.. I will look into the pre taste too, it was purchased recently from blckvapor.


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## Atsbitscrisp (12/10/16)

Nic is very sensitive to heat as far as I know. On my last batch, I did a 3 phase heating and mixing process.
1. Mix concentrates by weight. 30mins in a TC 65 degree water bath shake every 5 mind. Let that steep for 3 days at RT. 
2. Added pg and vg. 37 degree water bath for 3 hours shaking every 15 mins. Allow to steep for a further 2 days at RT.
3. Add nic in pg form. Shake 2ice a dayz and store in a cool dark cupboard for 2days.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Soutie (12/10/16)

Just a secondary thought, it might not be a bad idea to get your mixing right before selling to other people. This does seem like too much of a 'DIY 101' type question with an existing customer base.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Morph699 (12/10/16)

Ye i could but they dont want to steep it, I would prefer to have it pre steeped.

Thanks bud. Thats a bit over the top for me, too much effort  I don't have the patience.


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## Soutie (12/10/16)

Morph699 said:


> Ahh ok perfect thank you so much.. I will look into the pre taste too, it was purchased recently from blckvapor.



Blckvapours nic is on point, I have used bottles and bottles of their nic and I have yet to have an issue. Have a look at how you are storing the nic and avoid heat steeping. Heat and light is VERY bad for nic.

It could also be your recipe, some flavours are very harsh on the throat.


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## Morph699 (12/10/16)

Soutie said:


> Blckvapours nic is on point, I have used bottles and bottles of their nic and I have yet to have an issue. Have a look at how you are storing the nic and avoid heat steeping. Heat and light is VERY bad for nic.
> 
> It could also be your recipe, some flavours are very harsh on the throat.



Ye I reckon it mustve been the heat - Will try avoiding that in future, I store my nic in the same cupboard i steep my liquids I tried storing it in the freezer but its not easy to pour when the nic is VG based - too thick.

Ok so the ones ive tried to use that have gotten the harsh hit are:

Strawberry and cream (both CAP and FA for straw and FA fresh cream and tfa)
Red Licorice - I think TFA - steeped for 5 days or so


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## Warlock (12/10/16)

Hi @Morhp699 I mix for myself and friends but I can’t follow what you are doing.

Can you post here a typical mix that you make without any flavours.
In ml ... How much vg
How much Pg

And how much nicotine, and what is the strength of the nicotine and who supplies it.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Naz (12/10/16)

Try shaking your nic bottle really well before using it. I had a similar problem but since I started shaking my nic thoroughly it has made a difference.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Morph699 (12/10/16)

Naz said:


> Try shaking your nic bottle really well before using it. I had a similar problem but since I started shaking my nic thoroughly it has made a difference.



I do shake, in fact I dont need to go to gym as I can shake for about 5min now before my arms get sore 



Warlock said:


> Hi @Morhp699 I mix for myself and friends but I can’t follow what you are doing.
> 
> Can you post here a typical mix that you make without any flavours.
> In ml ... How much vg
> ...



Ok so in a 500ml bottle lets say 300ml VG and 150 PG about 20ml Nic 36mg from blckvapor and about 10ml flavours.

The amounts are a guestimation as the bottles are not marked with ml lines.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Warlock (13/10/16)

@Morph699 Go get yourself a scale and then use the calculator from this site http://www.breaktru.com/
You cannot guess your way thru this.
At that mix your flavour will only be 2% and you nicotine 1.5mg I think.
Is your nicotine Vg based.


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## Morph699 (13/10/16)

Lets put it this way, I went through


Warlock said:


> @Morph699 Go get yourself a scale and then use the calculator from this site http://www.breaktru.com/
> You cannot guess your way thru this.
> At that mix your flavour will only be 2% and you nicotine 1.5mg I think.
> Is your nicotine Vg based.



Im guesing now as you put me on the spot, usually I measure, I dont know them off by heart as my memory isnt what it used to be - wait what are we talking about, lol. 

The flavour does still come through quite strong sometimes if after a couple days I add more just to be able to smell something. based on other calc's it says i would need to use 41.7ml's of nic for 3mg in a 500ml bottle but as its so damn expensive i cut it in half.. I havent had any complaints yet about the lack of strength (not that they would really know anyway).

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Caveman (13/10/16)

Are your mixes harsh before adding the nic as well?

I've had this happen to me a few times. I now shake my nic quite well before every mix. Many have said that causes the oxidation to happen faster, but it's worked well for me.

You have to be precise to a degree when mixing nicotine. Personally for me a 0.5g in either direction is an acceptable margin of error. 

Give it a good shake up before mixing. Also test before adding nic. It's a process of elimination


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## Slick (13/10/16)

Morph699 said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> Okay so ive been mixing flavours for about 2 months now and I cant seem to get away from either the peppery taste or a harsh nic hit.
> 
> ...


If it makes you feel better,im having the same problem! I gave up trying to solve it,my throat is gone use to it now

Reactions: Like 1


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## Morph699 (13/10/16)

Caveman said:


> Give it a good shake up before mixing. Also test before adding nic. It's a process of elimination



Ye im shaking till its almost milky and then they sit for a day and shake some more and sit etc, i'll follow your advise regarding the above as ive been adding everything so no chance to test before adding the nic. as it wouldnt have steeped yet.


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## Renoster (13/10/16)

Morph699 said:


> Lets put it this way, I went through
> 
> 
> Im guesing now as you put me on the spot, usually I measure, I dont know them off by heart as my memory isnt what it used to be - wait what are we talking about, lol.
> ...


Download vape tool from play store on your phone and use the liquid calc....


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## Caveman (13/10/16)

Morph699 said:


> Ye im shaking till its almost milky and then they sit for a day and shake some more and sit etc, i'll follow your advise regarding the above as ive been adding everything so no chance to test before adding the nic. as it wouldnt have steeped yet.


Are you shaking the Nic until it is milky? or the final product?

If you are shaking the nic that much on its own it might be an issue in its own right.
If not, I meant that try shaking the nic on its own, before adding to anything. Just a light shake, not to the point that it becomes milky


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## Morph699 (13/10/16)

Caveman said:


> Are you shaking the Nic until it is milky? or the final product?
> 
> If you are shaking the nic that much on its own it might be an issue in its own right.
> If not, I meant that try shaking the nic on its own, before adding to anything. Just a light shake, not to the point that it becomes milky



Nah sorry Im shaking once everything is mixed in the bottle - Only shaking the nic for 2min as advised on the bottle.


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## Morph699 (13/10/16)

Renoster said:


> Download vape tool from play store on your phone and use the liquid calc....



i use: https://www.planetofthevapes.co.uk/apps/mixing_calculator.php or www.todmuller.com/ejuice/ejuice.php

but ive made a note of how much to use for the various amounts that i use so I dont have to keep checking. its an issue only when im using the 500ml bottles as they not marked.


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## Caveman (13/10/16)

Morph699 said:


> Nah sorry Im shaking once everything is mixed in the bottle - Only shaking the nic for 2min as advised on the bottle.


Interesting conundrum you have there then. Give it a shot without nic, would like to know your findings. I got some different nic today from Clyrolinx, so far so good.


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## Morph699 (13/10/16)

Caveman said:


> Interesting conundrum you have there then. Give it a shot without nic, would like to know your findings. I got some different nic today from Clyrolinx, so far so good.



Whenever ive made nic free the flavours come out perfectly with or without steeping. sorry i wasnt thinking earlier, I was thinking just as one mixed without the nic.
I usually only vape the nic free as im completely off it now- took me 4 years but im free


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## Soutie (13/10/16)

After reading your feedback it definitely sounds like the heat steeping. Your recipes don't sound over flavored, nic is low, no harsh flavours that I can see and the nic vendor is very reputable. Mix up two little 30ml bottles and steep it naturally, one with no nic and one with your normal nic then report back. A simple strawberry cream needs about two weeks then give it a test and see if it is still harsh.

I would reckon that it is that bottle of nic gone bad BUT if you are mixing 500ml at a time odds are a bottle doesn't lasts too long.

Edit: spelling


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## Morph699 (13/10/16)

Soutie said:


> A simple strawberry cream needs about two weeks then give it a test and see if it is still harsh.
> 
> I would reckon that it is that bottle of nic gone bad BUT if you are mixing 500ml at a time adds are a bottle doesn't lasts too long.


 very true, I finished a 100ml bottle today after mixing 4x 500ml's and that barely took an hour.

@the straw and cream - I reckon with that it could be my impatience that gets the worse of me as I cant wait that long as im used to only doing the fruity flavours which are a max of 3-5 days sometimes a wee bit longer.


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## Soutie (13/10/16)

Morph699 said:


> I finished a 100ml bottle today after mixing 4x 500ml's and that barely took an hour



Good lord 100ml after mixing, what atty are you using there? I would be mixing into 2l coke bottles if I were you

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Morph699 (13/10/16)

Soutie said:


> Good lord 100ml after mixing, what atty are you using there? I would be mixing into 2l coke bottles if I were you


ok lemme clear that up.. i finished a 100ml bottle of nic in 4x 500ml flavour mixing bottles, come to think of it it was actually 5 approx 20ml per bottle


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## Soutie (13/10/16)

Morph699 said:


> ok lemme clear that up.. i finished a 100ml bottle of nic in 4x 500ml flavour mixing bottles, come to think of it it was actually 5 approx 20ml per bottle



Aha gotcha!
I'm slightly dissapointed though, I thought the drought was nearing an end with the clouds I was picturing rising in the distance.


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## Morph699 (13/10/16)

Soutie said:


> Aha gotcha!
> I'm slightly dissapointed though, I thought the drought was nearing an end with the clouds I was picturing rising in the distance.



lol, it could be from me, ive been puffing so much. hope they dont bring rain. i say dont cos im off tomorrow.

Reactions: Funny 1


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