# Nothing on Twisp's bully tactics?



## wikked (5/8/15)

If you're aware, it seems Twisp went full potato and send lawyers letters out to many vendors claiming they now have exclusive,continent wide distribution rights for *all* Joyetech products. I understand that the vendors themselves may not want to comment but as capers I'm sure many of you will have an opinion on this kind of asshattery


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## nemo (5/8/15)



Reactions: Agree 2


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## Mike (5/8/15)

As if @Twisp wasn't shady enough to start with.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Jan (5/8/15)

Actually funny since they don't label their products as Joyetech. I am not an expert but a contract between two companies is just that if a vendor is not part of that contract he can't be held liable for a breech of that contract. Any lawyers on the site? In my opinion that is intimidation and to an extend price fixing.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## shabbar (5/8/15)

twisp doesn't have exclusive distribution rights or am i missing something ?


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## Rob Fisher (5/8/15)

Oh wow! That is such a stupid thing to do! Alienate all the vapers in one fowl swoop! Well done! I bet their marketing department are having a nappy rash right now... so much goodwill they have built up down the drain in one moronic move!

Reactions: Agree 4


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## BumbleBee (5/8/15)

So do I get my EVIC VT from @Twisp now?

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Funny 4


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## shabbar (5/8/15)

Rob Fisher said:


> Oh wow! That is such a stupid thing to do! Alienate all the vapers in one fowl swoop! Well done! I bet their marketing department are having a nappy rash right now... so much goodwill they have built up down the drain in one moronic move!



exactly , they have done so much to introduce vaping to SA


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## Average vapor Joe (5/8/15)

Sounds like the same bitchery as hyon usa and the ivogo evil monk


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## Paulie (5/8/15)

Wow shocking!! I think its time Twisp catch a wake up call!, and stop trying to own a monopoly and they are starting to remind me of a Big Tobacco company which is ironic!

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 4 | Winner 1


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## ashTZA (5/8/15)

That's funny; because Joytech's store-finder only lists Lung Buddy as a retailer

Reactions: Funny 3


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## jagga8008 (5/8/15)

Twisp need to remove this from their website.
Since 2008 All Twisp products are manufactured by acclaimed Dutch e-cigarettes producer Janty under the Twisp brand. Janty has consistently produced the best electronic cigarettes on the market and distanced themselves from the generic chinese market

Reactions: Agree 2


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## RevnLucky7 (5/8/15)



Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 7


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## Sir Vape (5/8/15)

Should be fun

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Sir Vape (5/8/15)

Ain't Twisp on here???


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## devdev (5/8/15)

This is like deja vu... 

Pretty sure similar bleats were made by an unenlightened young 'un regarding Kangertech products in the middle of last year.

Somehow though, I think the calibre of counsel is a tad more competent than said young 'un's understanding of the principles at play, in other words I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss this outright.

Reactions: Like 3


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## BumbleBee (5/8/15)

So now we can't have any other Joyetech products other than that shitty ego one kit? Why can't I have an Evic VT and a Delta II?


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## crack2483 (5/8/15)

devdev said:


> This is like deja vu...
> 
> Pretty sure similar bleats were made by an unenlightened young 'un regarding Kangertech products in the middle of last year.
> 
> Somehow though, I think the calibre of counsel is a tad more competent than said young 'un's understanding of the principles at play, in other words I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss this outright.


Lol. I remember that.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk


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## JakesSA (5/8/15)

90% of vapers I know started on a Twisp and I am 99.8% sure the below was paid for by Twisp. Food for thought?

Reactions: Agree 3


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## ashTZA (5/8/15)

I'm no lawyer but I'm fairly confident, aside from being able to send a cease and desist letter as a scare tactic (common practice);
Twisp shouldn't really have a case against other vendors from a legal standpoint.

Their agreement is between themselves and the OEM.
If the other vendors bought their stock from the OEM before the Distribution agreement with twisp was made, then there is no case. (unless the OEM is willing to refund that stock).
If the OEM is still selling those products knowingly to SA vendors after the agreement was made, then twisp have a quarrel with the OEM.

If the vendors in question are importing the products from another distributer which is supplied by the OEM (the grey market route); then twisp could encourage the OEM they have an agreement with to threaten to no longer supply that distributer unless they make efforts to stop supplying the other vendors in SA.

But I don't know of any local law that prevents someone else selling stock they legally purchased & own, unless the product itself is illegal or a fake/unauthorised copy.

TL'DR the other vendors selling Joytech products may have hard time getting new stock from joytech, but can't be held liable for selling what they have.

Edit: That doesn't necessarily stop them from trying; If they have the money to burn in court even for a case they might loose, they can persuade smaller retailers to comply who don't have the time or money to lawyer up.

Any lawyers present who could enlighten me? Or am I being too naive?

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


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## VapingSquid (5/8/15)

I cant see this being true. And if it is, its probably the siliest thing I have ever heard, because as far as I am aware, Twisp sell Twisps. Not Joytech E-cigarettes. No one buys a Joytech from a Twisp stand, they buy a Twisp Aero or Clearo or whatever they are called. So if this is true, I cannot comprehend the cheek they have to try and ban other vendors from selling X brand because they relabel X brand and sell as Y without the greater knowledge of the public they sell to. Man up and make your own device, then and only then can you brand it as if it were your own. Shocking.

Sent from my LG-D802 using Tapatalk

Reactions: Like 1


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## VapingSquid (5/8/15)

JakesSA said:


> 90% of vapers I know started on a Twisp and I am 99.8% sure the below was paid for by Twisp. Food for thought?



To add to that - it seems to be the typical mentality of stifling competition to increase profit. More people are finding out about the wide range of vaping gear they never knew existed. I personally have "converted" 6 people in the past 6 months from Twisps to other devices and their jaws dropped when they saw the choice they really had.

It reminds me of the Uber debacle - it's competition and giving other players a run for their money so instead of bettering service and offering, some throw a fit and go to the steps of the court.


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## ashTZA (5/8/15)

jl10101 said:


> I cant see this being true. And if it is, its probably the siliest thing I have ever heard, because as far as I am aware, Twisp sell Twisps. Not Joytech E-cigarettes. No one buys a Joytech from a Twisp stand, they buy a Twisp Aero or Clearo or whatever they are called. So if this is true, I cannot comprehend the cheek they have to try and ban other vendors from selling X brand because they relabel X brand and sell as Y without the greater knowledge of the public they sell to. Man up and make your own device, then and only then can you brand it as if it were your own. Shocking.
> 
> Sent from my LG-D802 using Tapatalk




Or OP could be giggling from a well executed troll. So till an actual vendor speaks up about receiving a cease and desist letter;
Perhaps we shouldn't pick up the pitchforks just yet.


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## Mike (5/8/15)

Many vendors have been contacted. No trolling here.


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## Rob Fisher (5/8/15)

jl10101 said:


> I cant see this being true.



It is indeed true. I have seen the documentation!


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## nemo (5/8/15)

ashTZA said:


> Or OP could be giggling from a well executed troll. So till an actual vendor speaks up about receiving a cease and desist letter;
> Perhaps we shouldn't pick up the pitchforks just yet.


Mine is surgically attached


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## VapingSquid (5/8/15)

ashTZA said:


> Or OP could be giggling from a well executed troll. So till an actual vendor speaks up about receiving a cease and desist letter;
> Perhaps we shouldn't pick up the pitchforks just yet.



Well executed troll would also be a poorly executed defamation of business. That would not be cool!

Actually: I think we should get this thread closed. Innocent until.....you know the drill. What think you?


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## ashTZA (5/8/15)

jl10101 said:


> Well executed troll would also be a poorly executed defamation of business. That would not be cool!
> 
> Actually: I think we should get this thread closed. Innocent until.....you know the drill. What think you?



They still sell overpriced relabelled junk so....


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## VapingSquid (5/8/15)

ashTZA said:


> They still sell overpriced relabelled junk so....



Well, in your opinion


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## ashTZA (5/8/15)

jl10101 said:


> Well, in your opinion



Well maybe not junk anymore. The egoONE (dunno what they're calling it) is pretty good kit.

Reactions: Like 1


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## JakesSA (5/8/15)

And there lies the bone of contention ...

Reactions: Agree 1


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## wikked (5/8/15)

ashTZA said:


> Or OP could be giggling from a well executed troll. So till an actual vendor speaks up about receiving a cease and desist letter;
> Perhaps we shouldn't pick up the pitchforks just yet.


 U WOT M8


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## wikked (5/8/15)

jl10101 said:


> Well executed troll would also be a poorly executed defamation of business. That would not be cool!
> 
> Actually: I think we should get this thread closed. Innocent until.....you know the drill. What think you?


 R Y AVN A GIGGL M8!

I've seen the letter and have a copy, and out of respect for some of the vendors I won't post it. It's up to them to post the exact contents, but most of it is giggle worthy.


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## VapingSquid (5/8/15)

wikked said:


> R Y AVN A GIGGL M8!
> 
> I've seen the letter and have a copy, and out of respect for some of the vendors I won't post it. It's up to them to post the exact contents, but most of it is giggle worthy.


I won't lie, I did have a laugh at the whole thing in general  

Sent from my LG-D802 using Tapatalk


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## BumbleBee (5/8/15)

If there is an ounce of truth in Twisp's claims then Joyetech can shove it. Either way, if that's how they want to play it I will never buy another Joyetech product again. My order for an Evic VT has been cancelled.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


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## Downtown Vapoury (6/8/15)

You see Twisp basically sold Justfog under their own brand. Justfog products were made under two production lines.

Justfog even on their own were prevented from supplying anyone in south Africa but the products still got here in their original shape and form  .In the end Justfog terminated their contract with Twisp.Its so very hard to ensure compliance especially when dealing with the chinese.

Im sure wel be finding replica twisp stall soon 

Btw Twisp was made in China and not Dutch/German designed or Made as fabricated by Twisp who misled customers.


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## BuzzGlo (6/8/15)

I was going to buy the twisp drip tips, but f em if they gonna be like this.


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## SamuraiTheVapor (6/8/15)

So much drama 

Twisp, sort your shit out!


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## Gibo (6/8/15)

if any of the vendors want legal advice send me a pm... would be unethical to advise any party here without hearing from the actual aggrieved parties and reading the letters of demand

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## Necropolis (6/8/15)

BumbleBee said:


> If there is an ounce of truth in Twisp's claims then Joyetech can shove it. Either way, if that's how they want to play it I will never buy another Joyetech product again. My order for an Evic VT has been cancelled.



People's knee-jerk reactions online will always amaze me...


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## BumbleBee (6/8/15)

Necropolis said:


> People's knee-jerk reactions online will always amaze me...


Yip, I have shaky leg syndrome, add to that I hate drama and hate politics even more. So I'll just walk away

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## nemo (6/8/15)

BumbleBee said:


> Yip, I have shaky leg syndrome, add to that I hate drama and hate politics even more. So I'll just walk away


Following with my surgically attached pitchfork

Reactions: Funny 2


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## wikked (6/8/15)

I wonder if I can CPA my Evic VT back to Twisp

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Philip (11/8/15)

wikked said:


> I wonder if I can CPA my Evic VT back to Twisp


https://m.facebook.com/Twispthealternative/posts/1020155531330094

Reactions: Like 1


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## Philip (11/8/15)

Philip said:


> https://m.facebook.com/Twispthealternative/posts/1020155531330094


Comment on the link regarding this exact thing

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mike (11/8/15)

Don't forget to leave a review


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## Philip (11/8/15)

Time to take a stand


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## n0ugh7_zw (11/8/15)

They're trying to commit commercial suicide. Really theres not much else in the way of an explanation. 

As for Joyetech, well their conduct is pretty questionable. For example, they set the prices that vendors can sell their gear at, so if say a vendor wishes to have a special and drop the price, Joyetech will never sell to that vendor again, if the catch wind of it. Not to mention, the fact that they're perfectly happy to flat out lie about the capabilities of some of their devices. They kinda make crappy tanks. eGo one MEGA is pretty sub par, Delta 2 is ok, but there are better vapes to be had for significantly less $$$ and less power. 

With that in mind, they're the perfect fit for Twisp, who over charge, and who treat the market with a stiff dose of ignorance, with side orders of greed, disinterest and contempt. 

I was having a conversation earlier today with some people about the industry, and where the rot stems from is a lack of passion, this is purely a means to an end for them. There's no passion, no real interest in the community beyond extracting revenue. 

Sure they put up billboards, and they're the gateway for many a stinky smoker to get onto vaping. But, that doesn't change the fact that they're perpetrators of some pretty significant douchebag behaviour. 

Is that really the kind of place you want to support?

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 2


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## KrayFish404 (11/8/15)

Screenshot. Some complained they cannot see it.

Here is the alternate link for computers, the other was a mobile link:

Reactions: Winner 2


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## capetocuba (11/8/15)

Ok I cannot understand how they have a case. I am no lawyer. I will explain one example below, and there are many I could list.

Since I can remember there have been grey/parallel imports of hi-fi and TV components. We have authorised agents in this country who would not repair these grey units. Philips were the exception from what I can remember who would repair these grey units. Never once was there any mention that these goods were brought in illegally. They were imported from various agents in the East, sometimes Europe. They were paid for and customs duties, surcharges and VAT were paid. From understanding this, the only gripe Twisp would have would be with Joyetech themselves. Look at America & the UK, the 2 ebay's I frequent. There are tons of products that are imported in a parallel fashion. I'm sure our commercial laws are similar to theirs.

I just posted this on their Facebook page ... can't wait for reply

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 4 | Thanks 1


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## huffnpuff (11/8/15)

wikked said:


> If you're aware, it seems Twisp went full potato and send lawyers letters out to many vendors claiming they now have exclusive,continent wide distribution rights for **all* Joyetech products.*..


Interesting, does that include the subsidiaries like eLeaf/iSmoka/Wismec?


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## BumbleBee (11/8/15)

huffnpuff said:


> Interesting, does that include the subsidiaries like eLeaf/iSmoka/Wismec?


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## huffnpuff (12/8/15)

BumbleBee said:


> View attachment 33407


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## BigB (12/8/15)

It's quite obvious to me that Joyetech are going to notice a massive drop in sales of their high end goods. Chinese sales reps (nice ladies and gents who speak English fairly well) are no doubt judged on their sales figures. They will have to say that their eVic sales and so forth are now Zero to South Africa and thanks to shops giving them feedback the word will get back to Joyetech that their agreement has opened the door for other suppliers to get an even bigger part of the South African high end market.

The real losers will be Joyetech. Fact is, there are a number of awesome suppliers out there.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## zadiac (12/8/15)

Very amusing thread. I'm running low on popcorn here.


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## Mufasa (12/8/15)

I am a FMCG buyer and see this type of thing often. Every one and his dog is trying to tie down an exclusivity deal with a principle - in this case Joyetech. I am sorry, but the principle is 100% to blame. How can they go into an exclusive deal with Twisp, but still keep supplying Joyetech products to other retailers. Obviously to them a sale is a sale. If Twisp has an exclusivity agreement with Joyetech then Joyetech has to stop supplying the rest of the market. I can't see them doing that, because Twisp only sells a portion of their available range while the rest of the retailers sell a much bigger range of Joyetech products.

@capetocuba mentions parallel imports. I am only aware of one case that ever went to court, where the official agent in SA actually won the case. I think it was a Yamaha audio component and they eventually won the case on the patents of some of the components inside the equipment.

Go look at some of our big retailers and the deals they offer on toiletries, for example. I have been told that up to 30% of the merchandise on their shelves are parallel imports of well know brands - also called arbitrage. If you look at the back of the packaging you will notice that sometimes ingredient lists etc are in different languages. Nothing wrong with the product, but maybe not intended for the SA market. There is also nothing illegal about this. The law is concerned about counterfeit products and not the authentic product. It also seems like the principles are turning a blind eye to this activity. They would rather move the stock than having to write it off.

Just my five cent's worth

Reactions: Agree 1


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## n0ugh7_zw (12/8/15)

Official agents... are kinda nonsense... it stifles competition. Back in the old days we had lots of official agents here. 

One of the best things that came out of our economic meltdown and subsequent dollarisation. Was that it created competition. Which drove prices down and made companies more efficient. 

The idea of an official agent is like a loophole giving a company a monopoly on a range of products is just not right. 

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk


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## Jan (12/8/15)

The irony is I have recommended the ego one to quite a few people and especially those who don't like on line shopping because they can buy their coils and accessories at the local twisp store in Bloem now I will have to find something else to recommend to people so in short a lot of lost sales in coils for twisp.


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## Downtown Vapoury (12/8/15)

Lol this wont go far.

Joyetech will screw them soon.You will see a new company emerging soon to replace joyetech product and which will belong to joyetech.

Good old joyetech will be forgotten.Let twisp bask in all their temporary glory.

You will see the same pattern that emerged between twisp and JUstfog,which resulted in Justfog terminating their contract with Twisp.

if you keep a few products,will they spend 30 grand to get an interdict for you to remove the products which you wouldv already sold by then?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## KrayFish404 (12/8/15)

Now look at that... Twisp removed my original post.

Sorry Joyetech Evic VT owners, and people who have this on back order, or have similar products from Joyetech, looks like you have a problem, and the next answer from Twisp will probably be another lawyer's letter.

As there are so many of us being affected by this, it would have been very simple to at least respond, my query was as a concerned citizen, not as someone trying to smear you.

Reactions: Like 3


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## whatalotigot (14/8/15)

capetocuba said:


> Ok I cannot understand how they have a case. I am no lawyer. I will explain one example below, and there are many I could list.
> 
> Since I can remember there have been grey/parallel imports of hi-fi and TV components. We have authorised agents in this country who would not repair these grey units. Philips were the exception from what I can remember who would repair these grey units. Never once was there any mention that these goods were brought in illegally. They were imported from various agents in the East, sometimes Europe. They were paid for and customs duties, surcharges and VAT were paid. From understanding this, the only gripe Twisp would have would be with Joyetech themselves. Look at America & the UK, the 2 ebay's I frequent. There are tons of products that are imported in a parallel fashion. I'm sure our commercial laws are similar to theirs.
> 
> ...



I was thinking exactly the same.

TWISP has no right to go and send letter to vendors. This is a bully tactic at its best.. 

They should be complaining to JOYTECH. Not the vendors. 

If this was effecting me directly, I would have JOYTECH on a skype confrence call immediately, with twisp involved. This is utter nonsense. I hope twisp see their behinds on this one.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## stompi3 (14/8/15)

Full potato lol 

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk


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## n0ugh7_zw (14/8/15)

Meh, i think it'll be a big huff, but no-ones going to make it stick. one way or another joyetech gear will find its way to market sans twisp involvement...


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## Stroodlepuff (14/8/15)

Got this from the company we get our Joytech stuff from:

My boss came to Joyetech company last day, the news is that TWISP mix the agreement
the agreement is that Joyetech wont sell to other shops in SA, but we agents can do this
Joyetech doesnt limited this
their manager said to my boss we try to get a file from joyetech declaring we sell joyetech products to SA is allowed
is it available if so


Also I know the American Joytech Office is still more than happy to sell to us...

Staying clear for the time being though

Reactions: Winner 2 | Informative 1


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## n0ugh7_zw (14/8/15)

Stroodlepuff said:


> Got this from the company we get our Joytech stuff from:
> 
> My boss came to Joyetech company last day, the news is that TWISP mix the agreement
> the agreement is that Joyetech wont sell to other shops in SA, but we agents can do this
> ...




Ye I kinda figured it'd be something like that. In which case nothing really changes.


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## kOekIes (17/9/15)

has anyone seen one of the the brand "vape"s devices.. they are identical to the old twisp clearo which i am positive most of us started on... why doesn't twisp go after them??? leave joyetech alone for f sakes... im loving my evic!!!! 
http://vapeafrica.co.za/product/vape-1453-stainless/ my gran has this one....


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## Nick (17/9/15)

I just saw the twisp advert on the TV. On ETV.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Informative 1


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## MJ INC (17/9/15)

Lol there's no way to stop grey/parallel imports. Importing and selling joyetech products is perfectly legal. If they do start harrasing vendors a good law firm would win hands down


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## Pixstar (17/9/15)

Nick said:


> I just saw the twisp advert on the TV. On ETV.


Yeah, they advertise on Supersport Channels too...


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