# 2021 Vapers Survey



## Vaping Saved My Life

Every year we put together a survey to get valuable information on the vaping landscape in South Africa.
The survey should take no longer than 2 minutes to complete.
All the information given will be treated in strict confidence and used for statistical purposes only.
Please help us share and realise our target of 4000 participants (we would love a lot more).
Thank you in advance.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## CJB85

Vaping Saved My Life said:


> Every year we put together a survey to get valuable information on the vaping landscape in South Africa.
> The survey should take no longer than 2 minutes to complete.
> All the information given will be treated in strict confidence and used for statistical purposes only.
> Please help us share and realise our target of 4000 participants (we would love a lot more).
> Thank you in advance.


Just completed it, but I feel the survey lacks some detail that can lead to misinterpretations.
For example:
1) Do you think EVPs should be regulated in the same way as regular tobacco products (paraphrasing on my side).
I answered no, because I believe it is a completely different product from combustible tobacco, but my answer may seem like I believe it should simply go unregulated.
2) The same thing goes for the questions around teen vaping, whether they should have access to them and if governments are doing enough to prevent them getting access to it. I voted maybe on both, as I believe that if teens are going to do something crappy, rather it be vaping than smoking... but they should not be doing either. I believe governments are trying a lot, but focusing their efforts on all the wrong things.

Perhaps consider adding a comment option if people select the "maybe" on those questions?

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 3


----------



## Hooked

@Vaping Saved My Life 
I saw your post on FB and copied it, with a link to the survey, here.

If you have another survey in the future, it would be helpful if you post the website address here on the forum. People are inclined to be a bit lazy and want everything to be as easy as possible. Your pic above doesn't make it easy 

[USERGROUP=3]@Admins[/USERGROUP] Perhaps you could merge the two threads?

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 2 | Winner 1


----------



## Vaping Saved My Life

CJB85 said:


> Just completed it, but I feel the survey lacks some detail that can lead to misinterpretations.
> For example:
> 1) Do you think EVPs should be regulated in the same way as regular tobacco products (paraphrasing on my side).
> I answered no, because I believe it is a completely different product from combustible tobacco, but my answer may seem like I believe it should simply go unregulated.
> 2) The same thing goes for the questions around teen vaping, whether they should have access to them and if governments are doing enough to prevent them getting access to it. I voted maybe on both, as I believe that if teens are going to do something crappy, rather it be vaping than smoking... but they should not be doing either. I believe governments are trying a lot, but focusing their efforts on all the wrong things.
> 
> Perhaps consider adding a comment option if people select the "maybe" on those questions?


Thank you. Noted. VSML believes that EVPs should be regulated, but outside of proposed 2018 Tobacco bill. We firmly believe that government should adopt an appropriate harm reduction stance.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1


----------



## CJB85

Vaping Saved My Life said:


> Thank you. Noted. VSML believes that EVPs should be regulated, but outside of proposed 2018 Tobacco bill. We firmly believe that government should adopt an appropriate harm reduction stance.


I couldn't agree more, so just try to make that stance as clear as possible. Regulate, but as a product in its own right, don't piggyback us on cigarettes.

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 1


----------



## LeislB

CJB85 said:


> I couldn't agree more, so just try to make that stance as clear as possible. Regulate, but as a product in its own right, don't piggyback us on cigarettes.


Yes, I answered no too because I don't think it should be governed in the same way as tobacco.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## LeislB

Bump, all those who haven't completed this survey please do so.

Reactions: Like 5 | Agree 1 | Winner 1


----------



## fbb1964

Question to @Vaping Saved My Life. Where can I see the results of your past VSML surveys done? Couldn't find it on your website. Would be very interesting to compare the survey results. And I would definitely think fellow saffa vapers would be very interested to see the actual survey results they took time and effort to participate in as well. The following link, as example, are the actual results, for AU vaper survey participants to see, in a similar vapers survey performed in AU last year. *Public* for anybody to see as a vaper advocacy organization representing actual vapers should do. I await your public reply right here. Thanks in advance.

https://www.legalisevaping.com.au/m...s-if-the-1-january-2020-vaping-ban-goes-ahead

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 1


----------



## fbb1964

@Vaping Saved My Life it's one week later and no acknowledgement or reply yet.

I have a few more questions that I am sure all the saffa vapers on this site would appreciate to have answers too.

1. You state in your 2021 vaping survey request above that the data gathered will be used "for statistical purposes"
Statistical purposes for who and for what purpose/goal to achieve presenting the final documented, analysed and published statistics to?

2. You state in your "*About Us*" information page the following and I quote:
"Vaping Saved My Life (VSML) is a *consumer* advocacy group with the sole purpose to promote tobacco harm reduction through the means of electronic nicotine delivery systems (ENDS)."

https://vsml.co.za/about-us/

Yet on your "*Supporters*" page all I see are three pages of SA vape vendor companies that advertise and support your site.

Surely all the actual SA vapers are your real supporters as they are the people you are asking to complete your 2021 vape survey and also the people you claim to represent as a *consumer* advocacy group? A more appropriate and correct description for your heading "*Supporters*" would be perhaps "*Sponsors*" or "*Donors*"

An advocate represent a very specific client or group of clients. Who exactly do you represent as a self proclaimed *consumer* advocacy organisation in SA? How credible, impartial and independent can a *consumer* advocacy group appear to be or actually are when their "*supporters*" are openly advertised as vendor companies. BTW vape vendors vape too no problem but in a personal capacity not as a business entity. This does enormous damage to your reputation and cast doubt on your credibility as an independent unbiased impartial consumer advocacy group or organisation.

https://vsml.co.za/places/

I await your public reply. As all the SA vapers on this site possibly would too.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3 | Winner 2


----------



## Timwis

fbb1964 said:


> @Vaping Saved My Life it's one week later and no acknowledgement or reply yet.
> 
> I have a few more questions that I am sure all the saffa vapers on this site would appreciate to have answers too.
> 
> 1. You state in your 2021 vaping survey request above that the data gathered will be used "for statistical purposes"
> Statistical purposes for who and for what purpose/goal to achieve presenting the final documented, analysed and published statistics to?
> 
> 2. You state in your "*About Us*" information page the following and I quote:
> "Vaping Saved My Life (VSML) is a *consumer* advocacy group with the sole purpose to promote tobacco harm reduction through the means of electronic nicotine delivery systems (ENDS)."
> 
> https://vsml.co.za/about-us/
> 
> Yet on your "*Supporters*" page all I see are three pages of SA vape vendor companies that advertise and support your site.
> 
> Surely all the actual SA vapers are your real supporters as they are the people you are asking to complete your 2021 vape survey and also the people you claim to represent as a *consumer* advocacy group? A more appropriate and correct description for your heading "*Supporters*" would be perhaps "*Sponsors*" or "*Donors*"
> 
> An advocate represent a very specific client or group of clients. Who exactly do you represent as a self proclaimed *consumer* advocacy organisation in SA? How credible, impartial and independent can a *consumer* advocacy group appear to be or actually are when their "*supporters*" are openly advertised as vendor companies. BTW vape vendors vape too no problem but in a personal capacity not as a business entity. This does enormous damage to your reputation and cast doubt on your credibility as an independent unbiased impartial consumer advocacy group or organisation.
> 
> https://vsml.co.za/places/
> 
> I await your public reply. As all the SA vapers on this site possibly would too.


@Vaping Saved My Life did visit the forum on the 30th but for some reason didn't feel fit to answer your initial inquiry!

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 2


----------



## Puff the Magic Dragon

This was their reply to related questions I asked :



Vaping Saved My Life said:


> Absolutely correct.
> 
> VSML was started by Craig Stuart (Sir Vape) and Kurt Yeo in July 2017 (screenshot of the 1st profile pic on Facebook)
> View attachment 224388
> 
> *We have not been active on this forum, which was probably a bad thing. What prompted me (Kurt) to join the forum was the recent report done by Dr Cathrine Egde (National Council Against Smoking), which used this forum as one of her data sources. (https://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/early/2021/01/15/tobaccocontrol-2020-056102)
> (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1353829221000034?via=ihub)
> Please don't let our tardiness to this forum distract from the work we do in other areas.
> We simply trying to reach as many vapers as possible to gather data to combat the misinformation expressed in the above reports and many others.
> Thank you.*

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


----------



## fbb1964

Puff the Magic Dragon said:


> This was their reply to related questions I asked :



Thanks. Appreciated.

What it did say is that its run by a specific SA vape vendor masquerading as a *consumer* advocacy group representing the *consumer* interests of all actual vapers in SA. If that's not a huge conflict of interest right there I don't know what is! And that's all it said not much else.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## Rob Fisher

fbb1964 said:


> Thanks. Appreciated.
> 
> What it did say is that its run by a specific SA vape vendor masquerading as a *consumer* advocacy group representing the *consumer* interests of all actual vapers in SA. If that's not a huge conflict of interest right there I don't know what is! Not much else.



@fbb1964 what you don't know is Kurt now runs the site completely independently. No vendors are running the site. Also if you knew Kurt as I do you would support him in any way you could because he is doing a massive amount of work for the vape industry and vapers of SA!

@Vaping Saved My Life is beyond reproach!

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 2


----------



## fbb1964

Rob Fisher said:


> @fbb1964 what you don't know is Kurt now runs the site completely independently. No vendors are running the site. Also if you knew Kurt as I do you would support him in any way you could because he is doing a massive amount of work for the vape industry and vapers of SA!
> 
> @Vaping Saved My Life is beyond reproach!



Sure. This statement still stands. As a suggestion perhaps. I quote:

"How credible, impartial and independent can a *consumer* advocacy group appear to be or actually are when their "*supporters*" are openly advertised as vendor companies. BTW vape vendors vape too no problem but in a personal capacity not as a business entity. This does enormous damage to your reputation and cast doubt on your credibility as an independent unbiased impartial consumer advocacy group or organisation."

As we all know all the global anti vape organisations against us as vapers are huge and don't play fair. And they certainly don't miss a beat discrediting any opposition savagely at every possible opportunity. Advertising SA vape vendors on the actual VSML site as "Supporters" will give the anti vaping establishment a field day to discredit the VSML organisation instantly even if it's totally unfair and unfounded in reality. That's the message I'm trying to get thru. And why many other saffa vapers will think exactly the same when looking at he's site. This is not an attack on any SA vape vendors per say it's questioning the legitimacy of a consumer vaping advocacy based on what I actually see on the VSML advocacy site.

Footnote. All of us vaping nicotine juice in AU are doing it completely illegally and face huge fines. What that forced us to do is get to know your anti vaping enemy really really well. And exactly how they operate and attack. Hopefully all the saffa vapers stay lucky and doesn't face the full wrath and attack of the global anti vaping onslaught just yet. Time will tell.

Reactions: Like 2 | Informative 1


----------



## Rob Fisher

fbb1964 said:


> Sure. This statement still stands. As a suggestion perhaps. I quote:
> 
> "How credible, impartial and independent can a *consumer* advocacy group appear to be or actually are when their "*supporters*" are openly advertised as vendor companies. BTW vape vendors vape too no problem but in a personal capacity not as a business entity. This does enormous damage to your reputation and cast doubt on your credibility as an independent unbiased impartial consumer advocacy group or organisation."



That begs the question of how on earth can a consumer advocacy group get funding to do their work. A lot of Vendors do fantastic work saving lives and funding a consumer advocacy group is a really good way to help. I disagree that funding by Vendors makes the work any less credible. We are all in this together. Vendors and consumers!

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## fbb1964

on second thought let me explain with an example if I may.

So Kurt does the survey, tallies the data and provides a counter argument to the reports he mentions. the anti vaping establishment sees the argument and have a think about it. they've lost and they know it. so they've been exposed what now. next thing a reporter on the sabc or a major newspaper reporter, all paid off as we know already, does an expose on VSML showing a couple of screenshots of the about page and supporters page. exactly like I've done. and blasts out for all the public in SA claiming that this is not a legitimate independent consumer vaping advocacy organisation but a front for SA vape vendors to advertise and increase market share selling vape devices and juice to the public. That's what the public in SA not knowing any better see and their opinions are formed. we know the anti vape establishment lies but to them it doesn't matter. they have the money to buy the media,most anti vape health ngo's and even corrupt govt officials if they want. game set match for VSML. Kaput finito. that's what we're up against.

BTW you mention support. And that's exactly as done here in my replies.

https://www.ecigssa.co.za/tough-times-for-sa-vaping.t71639/

Reactions: Like 3


----------



## fbb1964

Rob Fisher said:


> That begs the question of how on earth can a consumer advocacy group get funding to do their work. A lot of Vendors do fantastic work saving lives and funding a consumer advocacy group is a really good way to help. I disagree that funding by Vendors makes the work any less credible. We are all in this together. Vendors and consumers!



I agree same here in AU. we definitely are all in this together bigtime. If they ban vaping we're all screwed equally together. AU advocacy organisations do get donations from the public and the vape vendors. donations only not advertising for vendors..don't openly advertise and endorse vape vendors and make it this easy for the anti vape establishment to illustrate a huge conflict of interest as it appears. it's a fatal mistake mate.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


----------

