# Vote in the News24 poll on Vaping taxation



## Stroodlepuff (6/3/19)

Guys please go to news24.com and complete the survey let’s protect this industry from over taxation

Reactions: Like 2 | Thanks 2


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## RenaldoRheeder (6/3/19)

Stroodlepuff said:


> Guys please go to news24.com and complete the survey let’s protect this industry from over taxation
> 
> View attachment 159877



Done. Results so far is not very encouraging 


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Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Elmien (6/3/19)

This poll is not doing well. Goes to show how misinformed people are about vaping.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## StompieZA (6/3/19)

Wanted to post this a little earlier. 

Done.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## RainstormZA (6/3/19)

RenaldoRheeder said:


> Done. Results so far is not very encouraging
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Same here. The 69% doesn't look good for us.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Jean claude Vaaldamme (6/3/19)

I voted yes, because I will have stopped vaping before any of this will come into effect

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Elmien (6/3/19)

I did a search on the News24 for "vape". The articles in the results are mainly all the negative propaganda that is making the news in the USA. Nothing about real studies that talk about the positives. The articles that look promising still has elements of "we just don't know" or "it is too soon to tell". I find this horrifying that South Africa's top news site is just reporting on things that can harm this industry. No news on all the scientific studies that prove that it is a safer alternative. No wonder the poll results look like that.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Pho3niX90 (6/3/19)

My vote has been posted. Very surprised on how badly the poll is going.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Jean claude Vaaldamme (6/3/19)

Elmien said:


> I did a search on the News24 for "vape". The articles in the results are mainly all the negative propaganda that is making the news in the USA. Nothing about real studies that talk about the positives. The articles that look promising still has elements of "we just don't know" or "it is too soon to tell". I find this horrifying that South Africa's top news site is just reporting on things that can harm this industry. No news on all the scientific studies that prove that it is a safer alternative. No wonder the poll results look like that.



A safer alternative, does not mean it is safe. And if its then not safe, it must be taxed and regulated so people dont just use it as an alternative, but only as a means to stop completely

Reactions: Dislike 1 | Disagree 1


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## Jean claude Vaaldamme (6/3/19)

Pho3niX90 said:


> My vote has been posted. Very surprised on how badly the poll is going.


 Im sure a news24 poll will not affect any new laws/regulations, whatever way it goes

Reactions: Agree 3


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## RainstormZA (6/3/19)

Jean claude Vaaldamme said:


> Im sure a news24 poll will not affect any new laws/regulations, whatever way it goes


Yeah but it goes to show how many people have been misinformed. I'd say stupid people because they can't be arsed to do some research.

Reactions: Agree 4


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## cgs (6/3/19)

One sad perspective is that taxation is inevitable.
This voting thing is a joke, waste of time and a distraction _and_ clearly shows large scale ignorance on the matter.

At the end of the day, just another excuse to take money out of YOUR pocket and transfer it into THEIRS.

You think the government really gives a spit about your health?

Hope I'm wrong.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Elmien (6/3/19)

Jean claude Vaaldamme said:


> A safer alternative, does not mean it is safe. And if its then not safe, it must be taxed and regulated so people dont just use it as an alternative, but only as a means to stop completely



No one says it is safe but it is much safer. Taxing a safer alternative in the same way as something that will definitely kill you or rob you of your quality of life is ridiculous. Do you really think that people will choose vaping over smoking if it is cast in the same light?

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Puff the Magic Dragon (6/3/19)

Spews24's bias is shown in the wording. "...any smoking is bad..." implies that vaping is a type of smoking (there is no smoke and you know it). The uninformed will obviously say that something similar to smoking is bad. It is like saying that any form of drinking is bad for you. The implication is that we are talking about alcohol and not water of cool drinks.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Room Fogger (6/3/19)

Done

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Asterix (6/3/19)

Puff the Magic Dragon said:


> Spews24's bias is shown in the wording. "...any smoking is bad..." implies that vaping is a type of smoking (there is no smoke and you know it). The uninformed will obviously say that something similar to smoking is bad. It is like saying that any form of drinking is bad for you. The implication is that we are talking about alcohol and not water of cool drinks.



Voted. I totally agree with @Puff the Magic Dragon's post. News24 will often/nearly always slant the wording of their polls to achieve an outcome they want. Their reporting is also very biased and substandard in my opinion.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Jean claude Vaaldamme (6/3/19)

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks"

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Faiyaz Cheulkar (6/3/19)

taxation means people will switch to cheaper and more dangerous alternatives. The government should focus on curbing the illegal cigarettes rather than futher taxing honest tax payers.

Reactions: Agree 4 | Disagree 1


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## Adephi (6/3/19)

Personally I don't think the vaping industry is big enough to make the smallest dent in the dept our treasury is facing with all the failed SOE's. This just sensational cheap politics and reporting.

People don't want to read about somebody's pleasure is healthier than anothers. They want to hear the bad things. And if there is nothing bad they will make something up.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Grand Guru (6/3/19)

Can someone post a link to the poll page please? I can’t find it

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Juan_G (6/3/19)

Where do i find the voting booth?


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## Rob Fisher (6/3/19)

Looks like it's gone now!

Reactions: Informative 1


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## cgs (6/3/19)

as per FDA,

Harmful and Potentially Harmful Constituents in Tobacco Products and Tobacco Smoke: Established List

What is in ejuice? Honest question, I don't know. I know PG, VG but what is in that?

Here's an interesting read on an experiment.
Toxicity of the main electronic cigarette components...

Is health really the issue here?


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## cgs (6/3/19)

side-note:

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Jean claude Vaaldamme (6/3/19)

I drink maybe 3-4 tots brandy a month. Im sure its 100% harmless and will even go as far that doctors would say that small amount is healthy. So why do I have to pay tax on my Brandy? Even on the sugar in the Coke?
Because some people abuse alcohol, make accidents, assault their family or other people, damage their liver, kidney, pancreas, bladder, heart etc.

I vape 400-500ml 3mg juice a month. So why must I be taxed? Because some people will vape 2L 38-48mg nic a month and damage something.

Some people think its cool to vape dual coils, 0.1ohm 120watt and try to get attention blowing these massive clouds everywhere he goes. Now dont be angry at the 15k that voted yes for the taxes. Thank these cloud chasers that irritated that 15k people with their vape in their faces.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## M.Adhir (6/3/19)

Taxation on its own is not the solution.
Pretty sure that sin taxes are there in part to lighten the fiscal burden on the health system due to said 'sins'.

As much as vaping may be the lesser of two evils when compared to traditional/ analogue smoking, surely there are still way too many unknowns and not enough positive or negative trials (either for or against the use of vaping as a nicotine replacement mechanism) for a totally informed and final decision to be made.

I don't disagree with the fact that my chest feels better as a vaper than when I was a smoker, but does anyone know conclusively yet whether us or our kids will start glowing in the dark in 30 years as a result of inhaling vapour?).

What's the average (individual genetics aside) durations for onset of emphysema / lung cancer / throat cancer / cardiac disease in smokers ? 
Has a big enough/ significant sample size been vaping for long enough to validate that these side effects will not prevail at some point as well ? 

If taxing brings regulations (and funding towards the enforcement of such) then it's not all such a bad thing. Regulation and enforcement should involve and bring about safety approval, regulation and enforcement of underage usage, stringent lab testing and product certification, involvement of competition authorities who will ensure fair playing fields to the benefit on the consumer (all these things have to be funded from somewhere).

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Silver (6/3/19)

Cant find the poll to vote
But thanks for posting this @Stroodlepuff 

@Jean claude Vaaldamme - you say tax vaping - that's cool
I am not disagreeing with that

But I think it is wrong to tax it to the same extent as cigarettes. I think it should be taxed less than smoking because research thus far points towards vaping being less harmful than smoking.

If they overtax vaping, I think a good opportunity to get many to switch to vaping might be less successful over the longer run. Smoking related illness costs the government a lot in hospitalisation etc. So I think the more people switch to vaping - it will be better for government over the longer term. I think the holistic picture over the longer term needs to be analysed very carefully here. No harm in taxing it lightly to start and review the situation in a few years time as more research is done. But that's just my view.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


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## Jean claude Vaaldamme (6/3/19)

Silver said:


> Cant find the poll to vote
> But thanks for posting this @Stroodlepuff
> 
> @Jean claude Vaaldamme - you say tax vaping - that's cool
> ...


Yes I havent seen any figures of what and how much will be taxed. I just see people protesting, no one try to find middle ground. But thats why everything is so up to sh!t in the country. Everyine just wants everything as he wants it, no compromise, no middle ground.
But as they say in Afrikaans, As jy nie wil luister nie, moet jy maar voel.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## RichJB (6/3/19)

I think people will always support taxation on something that doesn't affect them, on the basis that it reduces/eliminates taxation on things that do affect them. The poll is really just confirmation that only a small percentage of the public vape, which we knew anyway.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## RenaldoRheeder (7/3/19)

Come to think of it - taxation is not the big issue for us - being able to vape and to have easy access to vaping is most important. They (over) taxed me when I was a smoker and although I didn't like it, I could smoke - so I paid my taxes. I don't think most people consider giving up smoking due to the high taxes. Look at Australia - cigarettes are hugely expensive (I paid nearly R400 for a pack of 30's), but people are still smoking and the reduction in number of smokers has halted and turned around into a growing number of smokers again. So in my mind the tax issue is a pawn we can afford to loose 


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Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Elmien (7/3/19)

RenaldoRheeder said:


> Come to think of it - taxation is not the big issue for us - being able to vape and to have easy access to vaping is most important. They (over) taxed me when I was a smoker and although I didn't like it, I could smoke - so I paid my taxes. I don't think most people consider giving up smoking due to the high taxes. Look at Australia - cigarettes are hugely expensive (I paid nearly R400 for a pack of 30's), but people are still smoking and the reduction in number of smokers has halted and turned around into a growing number of smokers again. So in my mind the tax issue is a pawn we can afford to loose
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I am not against taxing it either. I just think it should not be taxed in the same way as cigarettes because then it is immediately seen as the same and could influence the legislation. They are in the early stages of bringing in new laws with regard to cigarettes that is based on laws in the UK and Australia for example. This will have cigarettes in packaging that only has the brand name on it with no other graphics. It will also mean that cigarettes will have to be behind doors in shops nothing on display. No special deals. No testing. If these same laws are applied to vaping it will be disastrous. How will you be able to test a device before you purchase it? No tasting of eliquid either.


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## Hooked (7/3/19)

Elmien said:


> I am not against taxing it either. I just think it should not be taxed in the same way as cigarettes because then it is imediately seen as the same and could influence the legislation. They are in the early stages of bringing in new laws with regard to cigarettes that is based on laws in the UK and Australia for example. This will have cigarettes in packaging that only has the brand name on it with no other graphics. It will also mean that cigarettes will have to be behind doors in shops nothing on display. No special deals. No testing. If these same laws are applied to vaping it will be disastrous. How will you be able to test a device before you purchase it? No tasting of eliquid either.



@Elmien Then we vapers will belatedly realise how fortunate we have been.
Can a smoker test different cigarettes before deciding which brand to buy?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Elmien (7/3/19)

Hooked said:


> @Elmien Then we vapers will belatedly realise how fortunate we have been.
> Can a smoker test different cigarettes before deciding which brand to buy?



We are fortunate indeed. I just think not being able to see, feel or taste anything before you get into vaping will make it so much harder to do. Experienced vapers know what they want from a device and know which brands or flavours they like when it comes to liquid. Having to fork out R400+ just for a device that you know nothing about and can't even hold in your hand will be very off-putting. When you buy a pack of cigarettes you don't like for R20 - R30 you won't be as disappointed as spending hundreds on a device and liquid that doesn't work for you.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Hooked (7/3/19)

Elmien said:


> We are fortunate indeed. I just think not being able to see, feel or taste anything before you get into vaping will make it so much harder to do. Experienced vapers know what they want from a device and know which brands or flavours they like when it comes to liquid. Having to fork out R400+ just for a device that you know nothing about and can't even hold in your hand will be very off-putting. When you buy a pack of cigarettes you don't like for R20 - R30 you won't be as disappointed as spending hundreds on a device and liquid that doesn't work for you.



However, and now I'm contradicting myself  I buy *everything* online. I've been fairly lucky with mods; juice ... not so much .

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## RenaldoRheeder (7/3/19)

Maybe we will be able to buy 5 or 10 ml juices samples cheaply to use as a "try-before-you-buy (more)


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## Elmien (7/3/19)

Hooked said:


> However, and now I'm contradicting myself  I buy *everything* online. I've been fairly lucky with mods; juice ... not so much .


The juice can be tricky. Just because it is a flavour you like does not mean the juice will be good.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## RenaldoRheeder (7/3/19)

And then News24 has this article

https://m.news24.com/Columnists/GuestColumn/vaping-tax-a-mistake-in-the-making-20190304




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## Adephi (7/3/19)

EWN had this hogwash article.

https://ewn.co.za/2019/03/07/study-links-e-cigarette-use-to-heart-trouble

They even contradict themselves: " This kind of study is a preliminary one that does not go so far as to say vaping causes heart trouble or suggest a biological mechanism as to how this might happen."

Reactions: Like 1


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## Elmien (8/3/19)

Adephi said:


> EWN had this hogwash article.
> 
> https://ewn.co.za/2019/03/07/study-links-e-cigarette-use-to-heart-trouble
> 
> They even contradict themselves: " This kind of study is a preliminary one that does not go so far as to say vaping causes heart trouble or suggest a biological mechanism as to how this might happen."



All these articles with the "might be", "could be", "we don't really know", "it is too early to say". Get your facts together before you publish something.


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## Jean claude Vaaldamme (8/3/19)

Elmien said:


> All these articles with the "might be", "could be", "we don't really know", "it is too early to say". Get your facts together before you publish something.



Cant the same then be said about all the vapers claims that vaping is so harmless? Do we really know? Have enough tests been done? If its so harmless surely most countries governments would embrace it?

Reactions: Agree 1


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