# Regulated battery drain infograph



## Mike (24/9/14)

Courtesy of /u/GobbleThisObelisk

Reactions: Like 1


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## huffnpuff (24/9/14)

And in English?


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## Mike (24/9/14)

Batteries don't last as lonng in regulated mods, besides that they're constantly putting out whatever wattage you want, but at lower battery volts, it draws more current to get that wattage. So your almost flat 3v battery needs 17A to hit 50W. Then to make matters better there's an efficiency knock from the chip so you'll actually be using even more, around 20A when your battery is low to put out 50W. Make sure to buy batteries with this in mind!!

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2 | Informative 1


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## stevie g (11/11/14)

Not always, if a regulated mod is running dual 18650s in serial them the output voltage is around 7.4v. The mod then down steps the voltage using a buck module... this is more efficient than mods which boost voltage. The battery efficiency does not suffer as much on serial wired dual battery setup.


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## Mike (11/11/14)

You realise series mods are only just entering the mainstream?


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## stevie g (11/11/14)

I own one, suppose I am ahead of the curve?. Anyway thought I would clarify before people painted all regulated mods with the same brush.


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## Silver (11/11/14)

Am reading this thread with interest - thanks


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## Silver (11/11/14)

Sprint said:


> Not always, if a regulated mod is running dual 18650s in serial them the output voltage is around 7.4v. The mod then down steps the voltage using a buck module... this is more efficient than mods which boost voltage. The battery efficiency does not suffer as much on serial wired dual battery setup.



Hi @Sprint - thanks for the comment
Are there any good serial wired dual 18650's available locally that you know of and can recommend?


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## Mike (11/11/14)

@Silver, he's most likely talking about the IPV3.

@Sprint, how old is your device?

Reactions: Thanks 1


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## stevie g (11/11/14)

I'm using the Dovpo E-mech otherwise known as the Heatvape Invader it is relatively new on the market, mine is secondhand, @GerharddP had it for a week or two I think and I've had it for a few days. Not sure why he sold it... I'm guessing the looks 

My criteria for a good reg mod was two batteries and a spring loaded center pin on the 510 connector and this device meets both of those criteria. I don't care that it looks like a kids walkie talkie.


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## Mike (11/11/14)

That's a pretty uncommon setup @Sprint. I'm not sure if it's fair to compare something oddball like that to the standards like the Vamos, DNA30 and IPV


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## Silver (11/11/14)

@Sprint 

How is the vape on the HeatVape Invader?
What power are you running it at and how much battery life are you getting?

Confuses me because I checked on the eCiggies site and they mention the HeatVape invader has its batteries in parallel
They also mention a current of 2.1 Amps. Isn't that too low - that's the sort of current the Spinners et al can produce?

The reason I am asking is that I am looking for a great regulated device - with ideally 30W minimum (more preferred) - and great battery life. The HeatVape Invader may just be something I must take a look at. Not concerned about the looks - more the functionality of it. It will be a home device


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## Mike (11/11/14)

@Silver, the increase in efficiency isn't as big as you'd expect. Depending on your settings it'll probably in the region of 10%.

Any dual battery mod will give you huge battery life. 18650s are better than 26650s generally, so a dual 18650 would be better than a 26650. IPV3 and Cloupor T8 would be your best bet for battery life.

My initial post was actually explaining that 50W from a low battery pulls a lot more current than one might expect..

This website suggests a series connection
http://www.dovpoecig.com/dovpo-e-mech-electroniccigarette-factory.html

Reactions: Agree 1 | Thanks 1


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## GerharddP (11/11/14)

Silver said:


> @Sprint
> 
> How is the vape on the HeatVape Invader?
> What power are you running it at and how much battery life are you getting?
> ...



Hi @Silver that heatvape @Sprint is talking about used to be mine. it has a max output of 30W, current output I'm not sure of but the bat life was amazing. i would vape at 30W for 3-4 days before i had to charge. I only sold it because I needed some cash for the sig. I loved the huge amounts of power that I was use to on a mech but longed for the safety and constant output of a regulated device so bought a bigger reg device than the heatvape


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## Mike (11/11/14)

@Silver you're in luck hahahah

http://ecigssa.co.za/threads/vapemob-presents-cloupor-t8-150w.6715/

Reactions: Thanks 1


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## stevie g (11/11/14)

Silver said:


> @Sprint
> 
> How is the vape on the HeatVape Invader?
> What power are you running it at and how much battery life are you getting?
> ...


The websites are wrong, I watched all the youtube videos and one guy put a multi meter on it to prove it was in series. The Chip is a clone of the DNA30 but it uses an american made Chip which has better regulation than clone DNA30 chips... Like the Cloupor Hana mod DNA30 uses the CNA30 chip and it is generally regarded as the best Hana clone.

I use it on 8.5W on a Kangertech Genitank if I pump more wattage I have to suck really fast so the airflow coils the coil down so it is possible to put 15W through a Kangertech dual coil unit but you will be sucking like it paid for it.

When it comes to dry burning coils it is brilliant, just whack it up to 30W and pulse it... so much quicker to dry the tap water out after a rinse.

I'm currently on 715 puffs and have half battery life left.

In terms of functionality it beats all... you get a led light that acts as a torch, USB pass thru, powerbank charger capabilites, massive battery life and 30W max which for me is plenty powerful. And it is built like a tank. Lastly for me the most significant sign of longevity is the spring loaded tank connector. No more prying up the center pin or bad connections because you over tightened and atty.

Reactions: Thanks 1


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## stevie g (11/11/14)

Mike said:


> @Silver you're in luck hahahah
> 
> http://ecigssa.co.za/threads/vapemob-presents-cloupor-t8-150w.6715/


Sucks that you can't charge through the USB port though but I suppose it helps keep the mod small and elegant.


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## Mike (11/11/14)

@Sprint, yea it's a real shame.. But I know Silver already has batteries and a charger anyway


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## stevie g (11/11/14)

Mike said:


> That's a pretty uncommon setup @Sprint. I'm not sure if it's fair to compare something oddball like that to the standards like the Vamos, DNA30 and IPV


I like that it is oddball you should see the faces when I pull it out... think I have converted my whole IT department to vapers and a guy from marketing liked the look so much he wants to get one now. lol


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## Andre (11/11/14)

Am I understanding this correctly? The Heatvape Invader, if in series, will provide more power but the battery life (mAh) as if just one battery? If in parallel the power will be as if one battery, but the battery life of all the batteries? Does not sound right if @GerharddP got 4 days of vaping from it?

Reactions: Informative 2


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## Mike (11/11/14)

@Andre it's a little more complicated than that in a regulated mod. (Btw if this is too rudimentary / broken in translation, I'm sure Johan will be able to explain better).

In a boosting device (batteries in parallel), you'll waste some energy boosting the volts higher.

In a throttling device (series) less power is used lowering the voltage

This isn't a huge difference in terms of real world performance. He is getting so many pulls because he's got 5000mAh of batteries powering 8w  Compare that to a MVP2 for example and it's not especially impressive for such a big device, let alone unbelievable 

At the end of the day, watts are watts. Better battery = better performance!!!

Reactions: Like 1


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## stevie g (11/11/14)

I don't want to get technical as I am not an electrical engineer. 
I have modified flashlights before from normal globes to heatsinked high power leds with boost modules.

What I observed is that two batteries in serial vs parallel take the same amount to run down so regardless of higher volts or higher current you will get two batteries worth of run time. minor loss in efficiency for boost opposed to buck.


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## Silver (11/11/14)

Thanks for that @Andre

Just thought of something interesting regarding dual batteries

If you connect batteries up in series, increasing the voltage - you had better be sure that the batteries individually can handle the amp draw of the resistance you connect to it.

So say you connect 2x18650 batts in series - and each has a 15 amp limit - for example
When they are connected in series they will have a combined volage of 8.4 volts (when fresh).
That means that if you connect a 0.5 ohm load, then it will draw 16.8 amps - which is *above *the limit for each individual battery.

I suppose in a regulated mod, all this is taken care of by the electronics - so it doesn't let you do silly things.
My example above I suppose is more applicable to a mechanical device of sorts.

Hope I am understanding this correctly


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## Mike (11/11/14)

@Silver, you raise an excellent point. Series unregulated mods are seriously dangerous territory. I'd recommend against it.

Also remember in series a .5 ohm coil with fresh batteries will get you 140 watts. Enough watts to power a 42" tv.

You can also get into the world of 26650s in series. 8.4V with around 50A at their disposal. Now that'd be ridiculous.


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## Andre (11/11/14)

Mike said:


> @Andre it's a little more complicated than that in a regulated mod. (Btw if this is too rudimentary / broken in translation, I'm sure Johan will be able to explain better).
> 
> In a boosting device (batteries in parallel), you'll waste some energy boosting the volts higher.
> 
> ...





Sprint said:


> I don't want to get technical as I am not an electrical engineer.
> I have modified flashlights before from normal globes to heatsinked high power leds with boost modules.
> 
> What I observed is that two batteries in serial vs parallel take the same amount to run down so regardless of higher volts or higher current you will get two batteries worth of run time. minor loss in efficiency for boost opposed to buck.


Thanks guys, I think I understand - much appreciated.


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## Silver (11/11/14)

Mike said:


> Also remember in series a .5 ohm coil with fresh batteries will get you 140 watts. Enough watts to power a 42" tv.



Eek!

You are right - I didnt do the power calculation in my example above.
8.4 volts and 0.5 ohms
P=Vsquared/R = 141 Watts

It's highly unlikely I will ever be attempting that!


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## Mike (11/11/14)

Don't forget you can also time volts by current 

But yea I don't see how anything above 50 watts can be enjoyable if I'm honest. Also I find the difference between 10 and 15 watts to be bigger than the difference between 15 and 25 so it's also a huge sacrifice in terms of battery life even if you do enjoy it.


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## johan (11/11/14)

Yes @Andre, you are correct, to explain; power (P) is the product of Voltage (V) and Amps (I), therefore the equation: P = V x I

For illustration purposes we will use 4 Li-po batteries fully charged at 4.2V and each have a discharge current capacity of 10A

when batteries (B1 to B4) are connected in *series*, only the voltage increases; Vtotal = V1 + V2 + V3 + V4 = 16.8V, but the total current is limited to 1 battery's capacity, due to the fact that this current flows through all 4 batteries. Thus, in this example we will have a total power of 168W [ 18.8V x 10A] at our disposal.

when batteries (B1 to B4) are connected in *parallel*, only the current capacity increases; Itotal = I1 + I2 + I3 + I4 = 40A, but the total voltage remains as that of one battery. Thus, in this example we will also have a total power of 168W [ 4.2V x 40A] at our disposal.

The main difference between our series and parallel connected batteries example are:

*Reference // Series connected // Parallel connected*

Voltage // 16.8V // 4.2V
Current // 10A // 40A

* If the same resistive load (coil) is connected to both circuits, the batteries connected in parallel will theoretically provide 4 times the vape time than those connected in series

e.g: Coil resistance (R) = 2.0 Ohm

Series connected: I = V/R, = 16.8/2 = 8.4A
Parallel connected: I = V/R, = 4.2/2 = 2.1A

Reactions: Thanks 1


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## GerharddP (11/11/14)

Andre said:


> Am I understanding this correctly? The Heatvape Invader, if in series, will provide more power but the battery life (mAh) as if just one battery? If in parallel the power will be as if one battery, but the battery life of all the batteries? Does not sound right if @GerharddP got 4 days of vaping from it?



Ok im going to try and explain this, we in the energy efficiency industry regard pwm as the san grial of energy saving. So what happens in the heatvape is that the power to the coil is "made" and "broken" at a steady frequency. Think about it this way, your energizing the coil and switching it of very fast but the coils physics allows it to stay at "vaping" temp in the off times because it hasnt had time to cool down. This means that a 1 second vape at what we call a "50% duty cycle" the coil has only "seen" a half second of active power. Thus the true power usage has been halfed yet a full 1 second off apparent power was used by the user. This means that for every second of a true power usage you are only using half of that so you effectively double the bat life by doing that. Add the fact that i used low drain and high capacity samsung bats from a laptop battery and i could vape for that amount of time.


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## GerharddP (11/11/14)

Mike said:


> Don't forget you can also time volts by current
> 
> But yea I don't see how anything above 50 watts can be enjoyable if I'm honest. Also I find the difference between 10 and 15 watts to be bigger than the difference between 15 and 25 so it's also a huge sacrifice in terms of battery life even if you do enjoy it.



I agree fully, with my new sig at 100w its like sucking a active volcano, BUT you buy a ferrari because you have the abbility to go fast then. Whether you enjoy it or not is peronal opinion but i bought it because it allows me to vape at "mech" power safely and to cloud chase with zero nic unflavoured 90vg/10pg juice and 100w wich is almost impossible with a mech by the way.


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## Mike (11/11/14)

GerharddP said:


> 100w wich is almost _*dangerous and silly* _with a mech by the way.



Fixed  Would you say that vaping at 100W is twice as good as 50W though?  For half the battery life, IMO it's not worth it


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## GerharddP (11/11/14)

Mike said:


> Fixed  Would you say that vaping at 100W is twice as good as 50W though?  For half the battery life, IMO it's not worth it



No like i said, I dont enjoy it hence the volcano comment but i do love clouds. I actualy use it to test smoke detection systems sometimes that i integrate our systems to. So for me its fun not pleasure and i never said its safe in a mech, exactly why i went the regulated route

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Mike (11/11/14)

I wasn't suggesting you meant it's safe - I've just seen folks fire 0.15ohm coils on VTC5s. Pretty brave - don't think it's smart though.


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## GerharddP (11/11/14)

I wasnt gunning you. Just clarifying. I would never go below .3 on a mech because people put to much trust in the 1 in 1000 bats tested at the factory. You might have a dud or a internaly floating short bat that only needs a bump to set it off. People unfotunately believe what they read without using common sense. The fact is that i use bats to about 75% of their rated achievements as and when i can. Plus i test each bat even if new with some sofisticated equipment before using or charging them.

Reactions: Like 1


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## stevie g (12/11/14)

@johan 
Everything I read last night whilst trying to find an answer to runtime on series vs parallel made the claim that supposing you using two of the same batteries in each configuration you will get twice the runtime on parallel. For example 2x18650 Parallel
vs 2x18650 Serial = double runtime.

In your technical post you worked out 4 times runtime over serial, why is this?


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## johan (12/11/14)

Sprint said:


> @johan
> Everything I read last night whilst trying to find an answer to runtime on series vs parallel made the claim that supposing you using two of the same batteries in each configuration you will get twice the runtime on parallel. For example 2x18650 Parallel
> vs 2x18650 Serial = double runtime.
> 
> In your technical post you worked out 4 times runtime over serial, why is this?



In the example of my post 4 batteries were used.

your question/example:

if all is even (exactly the same coil resistance), in parallel mode you have twice the "runtime" (i.e battery 2 x 2000mAh = 4000mAh). In series mode, you have double the voltage but only 1 x 2000mAh - because current flows in series through both batteries.

This guy illustrates serie & parallel differences very well imo:



Hope this address' your question.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## stevie g (12/11/14)

Thanks that helps.


johan said:


> In the example of my post 4 batteries were used.
> 
> your question/example:
> 
> ...

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## stevie g (12/11/14)

@johan
please can you explain if stepping down 7.4v to 4v will help the heatvape to last longer than half of a patellel setup?. Thanks


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## stevie g (12/11/14)

parallel


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## GerharddP (12/11/14)

Sprint said:


> @johan
> please can you explain if stepping down 7.4v to 4v will help the heatvape to last longer than half of a patellel setup?. Thanks



Step down is always more efficient, but it depends on the load as well


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## stevie g (12/11/14)

need to find max output current on this CNA30 chip, I think? That will be load right?


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## johan (12/11/14)

Sprint said:


> @johan
> please can you explain if stepping down 7.4v to 4v will help the heatvape to last longer than half of a patellel setup?. Thanks



Yes it will if the coil resistance is the same, however I must ad that I don't know the "heatvape's" circuit topology - lets look at it this way:


Batteries = 4.2V // 2000mAh

Coil resistance = 1.5 Ohm
Supply voltage (Series) = 8.4V & 2000mAh
Supply voltage (Parallel) = 4.2V & 4000mAh
Watts if Series connected: P = V2 / R .... (8.4 x 8.4) / 1.5 = 47.04W ... (I = 5.6A)

Watts if Parallel connected: P = V2 / R .... (4.2 x 4.2) / 1.5 = 11.76W ... (I = 2.8A)

Approximate continuous vape time when *Series* connected: t = Ah / I ... 2/5.6 = 0.36h or *21.6 minutes*

Approximate continuous vape time when *Parallel* connected: t = Ah / I ... 4/2.8 = 1.43h or *1 hour and 26 minutes*

If we however vape at exactly the same wattage, i.e 20W
Approximate continuous vape time when *Series* connected:

I = W / V ... 20 / 8.4V = 2.4A

t = Ah / I ... 2 / 2.4 = 0.83h or *50 minutes*
Approximate continuous vape time when *Parallel* connected:

I = W / V ... 20 / 4.2V = 4.8A
t = Ah / I ... 4 / 4.8 = 0.83h or *50 minutes*
It seems complex, but it is not - just print this ohms law formula wheel out and work through your own examples.

Reactions: Like 1


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## johan (12/11/14)

Sprint said:


> need to find max output current on this CNA30 chip, I think? That will be load right?



No, load is your resistance placed on the DNA 30 output (the coil resistance). The maximum output current (A) will give you one of two numbers/values to calculate your minimum coil resistance within a given voltage range - look at the Ohms Law formula wheel.


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## stevie g (12/11/14)

@johan wow awesome post! Now to digest the information lol

Reactions: Thanks 1


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## johan (12/11/14)

Sprint said:


> @johan wow awesome post! Now to digest the information lol



Edited now, some mistakes on my side - thanks for pointing that out @Mike

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## Mike (12/11/14)

johan said:


> If we however vape at exactly the same wattage, i.e 20W
> Approximate continuous vape time when *Series* connected: *50 minutes*
> Approximate continuous vape time when *Parallel* connected: *50 minutes*



This is why I stick by my opinion of good batteries are key to a good vape! Devices can only be so (in)efficient but a good battery can add 20% extra battery life.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## johan (12/11/14)

Mike said:


> This is why I stick by my opinion of good batteries are key to a good vape! Devices can only be so (in)efficient but a good battery can add 20% extra battery life.



I agree 100% and must add, that those calcs are pure theoretical, in real "vape" life we only utilize approximately 25% at most of the battery's capacity, as we replace them long before they are depleted.


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