# Game Changer homogenizer



## LeislB (28/8/20)

Hi all.

As DIYers we all find the steeping process rather tedious. I came across this gadget built by a retired engineer in the US. It fits onto a dremel or drill and gives you the same effects as a month steep in 1 minute of mixing. I so badly want one! Take a look:

https://forum.e-liquid-recipes.com/t/introducing-the-gc-game-changer-homogenizer/244261

Reactions: Like 3 | Winner 2 | Informative 1


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## takatatak (28/8/20)

I saw this a few weeks ago... I need this in my life 

Maybe we can do a bulk order and ship it all to SA together?

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## KobusMTL (28/8/20)

Had a chat to someone in the week about this. If a group buy is onnthe cards i will be in on it

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1


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## LeislB (28/8/20)

Absolutely, a group buy would be awesome! Quite a waiting list already, probably at 6 weeks now!

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2


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## ivc_mixer (28/8/20)

I want one! Nay, I *need* one! But at $150ea, this will have to wait a while still

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1


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## Adephi (28/8/20)

ivc_mixer said:


> I want one! Nay, I *need* one! But at $150ea, this will have to wait a while still



My budget needs to steep as well. And unfortunately there is no speed-steep for that.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 3 | Can relate 5


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## Drikusw (28/8/20)

Best write-up for this device:
https://steampugs.co.uk/2020/08/11/...e-gc-homogenizer-diy-flavor-chaser-one-shots/

Reactions: Like 6


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## LeislB (28/8/20)

Drikusw said:


> Best write-up for this device:
> https://steampugs.co.uk/2020/08/11/...e-gc-homogenizer-diy-flavor-chaser-one-shots/


It's a long read but very entertaining.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Jean claude Vaaldamme (28/8/20)

Best of all, you can put it on your table next to your 3K plastic air fryer

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 8 | Informative 1 | Optimistic 1


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## ivc_mixer (28/8/20)

Drikusw said:


> Best write-up for this device:
> https://steampugs.co.uk/2020/08/11/...e-gc-homogenizer-diy-flavor-chaser-one-shots/


From that review: "I mean this really will turn what you think you know into something that you thought you knew, but when you thought you knew that thing you know, what you actually knew was something that I knew too, but now I know that what you knew was something that everyone else thought they knew, until one bloke knew different, and now I know what he knows, and what he knows has changed what I thought I knew into something I used to know…."

Uhm...

Reactions: Funny 10 | Can relate 1


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## ivc_mixer (28/8/20)

One should actually buy one, then rent it out. Of course you need to take insurance out on it and all, but still... hmmmm.... Where's that wait list thingy?

Reactions: Funny 7


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## LeislB (28/8/20)

ivc_mixer said:


> One should actually buy one, then rent it out. Of course you need to take insurance out on it and all, but still... hmmmm.... Where's that wait list thingy?


If you go to the link in my original post and scroll down there is a link to the list to add your name, it's on a UK forum.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Puff the Magic Dragon (28/8/20)

I have been bitten too often by hype to jump in and get one. 

If it truly does what it says on the box it may be worth considering (for me).

I don't have much of a problem with steeping. I always mix 100ml of each recipe at a time. Every mixing session I mix about 8X100ml. I try to mix when I have enough of my existing supply to tide me over until the new batch has steeped. If I get things a bit out of sync I start with the fruits in the newest batch.

I am by no means an organised person, in fact I am far from it, but this system works for me.

Reactions: Like 5 | Agree 2


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## KobusMTL (28/8/20)

So for all that is interested in this. I sent him a message in a group buy maybe and leading time. 
This was his reply to me. 
Will keep you guys updated if something is on the card. 

"I will be in touch soon. My attorney has cautioned me about international shipping to some countries. I have not inquired about SA but will soon. Thank you for your interest and some solutions are likely available if b necessary. I’m currently waiting on his call for another matter. Have a great day.

Dan OVadka"

Reactions: Like 3 | Thanks 3


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## Raindance (29/8/20)

Seriously my vaping companions? Shake the bottle, its free. This is the biggest load of BS on a topic that has been exhausted multiple times. Steeping needs time to allow the chemical processes to take place, that is the formula. If there was another way to achieve the same result, the beverage industry would have been using it to make 12 year old scotch in a day for a long time.

But I know you will not listen, nor will I hold back on the "told you so's" in the not to distant future.

Regards

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Winner 1 | Funny 5 | Can relate 1


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## Intuthu Kagesi (29/8/20)

Just a thought here ... In essence, a homogenizer is simply a blender with a mesh to control the particulate size, thereby emulsifying any solution exposed to it. As the requirement with DIY seems to be more one of mixing than of controlling the size of particulates, I would think that a blender would achieve what you seek at a small fraction of the price? ... Your thoughts?

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 3


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## Stew (29/8/20)

With some modifications this may have potential. For example, a perforated outlet tube that is directed in a "U" shape downwards. Just a more economical idea available in South Africa but one may need slightly larger batch sizes and obviously a beaker just bigger than the pump for small batches. High PG/VG ratios may also be a problem.
https://reliablestore.co.za/product...31&sfdr_hash=6f23dab54a3a9bc8d9e32cec54d01ce6

Reactions: Like 2


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## Puff the Magic Dragon (29/8/20)

Off the top of my head these are some of the imaginative methods suggested so far to eliminate, or drastically reduce steeping time.

Warm bath ("solution"during the early days)
Electromagnetic stirrer
Milk frother
Electric blender
streathing
"degassing" in ultrasonic bath
Placing in a sock in a clothes dryer for 15 minutes.

Maybe you know of more ?

Reactions: Like 4


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## Stew (29/8/20)

Puff the Magic Dragon said:


> Off the top of my head these are some of the imaginative methods suggested so far to eliminate, or drastically reduce steeping time.
> 
> Warm bath ("solution"during the early days)
> Electromagnetic stirrer
> ...


Also a plate attached to a windscreen wiper motor on the low speed setting, possibly with a variable resistor. You can mount your bottles on may be another idea. Just have to mount bottles securely so they cannot chafe. I have one for turning fishing rods while varnishing and until varnish sets.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1


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## Puff the Magic Dragon (29/8/20)

@Stew my point is that these methods either do not work at all or reduce steeping time to such a small extent that they are not worth doing.

Until such time that a proven (simple) speedy method is found, if ever, I will continue to use the best method.

Amber bottle, time, dark cupboard.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3 | Winner 3


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## Intuthu Kagesi (29/8/20)

Puff the Magic Dragon said:


> @Stew my point is that these methods either do not work at all or reduce steeping time to such a small extent that they are not worth doing.
> 
> Until such time that a proven (simple) speedy method is found, if ever, I will continue to use the best method.
> 
> Amber bottle, time, dark cupboard.


As I understand steeping, it is a *chemical reaction*, and on that basis, mixing will help to a degree, however other than finding some catalyst to speed up the reaction, you would be better off being patient

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


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## Jean claude Vaaldamme (29/8/20)

Raindance said:


> Seriously my vaping companions? Shake the bottle, its free. This is the biggest load of BS on a topic that has been exhausted multiple times. Steeping needs time to allow the chemical processes to take place, that is the formula. If there was another way to achieve the same result, the beverage industry would have been using it to make 12 year old scotch in a day for a long time.
> 
> But I know you will not listen, nor will I hold back on the "told you so's" in the not to distant future.
> 
> Regards



HEHE the video review sounds like a Verimark add, for only a 5th of the price. And check the disclaimer for not being scientific on the video.
And a Dremel is not a cheap tool. But I see in the US you would be able to buy about 3 Dremels for the same price as just this attachment

Reactions: Like 2


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## Puff the Magic Dragon (29/8/20)

Intuthu Kagesi said:


> As I understand steeping, it is a *chemical reaction*, and on that basis, mixing will help to a degree, however other than finding some catalyst to speed up the reaction, you would be better off being patient




I forgot to add shake before steeping.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## Intuthu Kagesi (29/8/20)

I guess we're all addicts in a manner of speaking, and as addicts love rituals ... WTF ... do it! ... add another step into the process and convince yourself it's the holy grail ... it may also placate your desire to own another power tool of sorts and become your super power

Reactions: Like 1 | Can relate 1


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## Stew (29/8/20)

Puff the Magic Dragon said:


> I forgot to add shake before steeping.


My two possible suggestions are only for mixing. LOL.

Reactions: Like 4


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## takatatak (29/8/20)

Here It Is...Turbo Steep!

Comment from the maker of the GC

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## zadiac (29/8/20)

Intuthu Kagesi said:


> As I understand steeping, it is a *chemical reaction*, and on that basis, mixing will help to a degree, however other than finding some catalyst to speed up the reaction, you would be better off being patient



Yes and no. Steeping is a chemical process, yes. All the components break down and mix (homogenizes over time). This device just speeds up the process. The science behind this is sound.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Intuthu Kagesi (29/8/20)

takatatak said:


> Here It Is...Turbo Steep!


https://forum.e-liquid-recipes.com/t/here-it-is-turbo-steep/246282

So here's one of many contradictions in their bid to get you to buy into their product ...

*Guitarded A Dude With A Vision *says; "The processes of oxidation and homogenization are entirely _separate things_." and then goes on to say; “much of what has become known as the “steeping” process by ejuice makers is actually _*accelerated oxidation of the flavorings*_ caused by the addition of freebase nicotine.”, yet in the video it refers to using an ultrasonic bath post using the glorified blender *to get rid of the aeration*, (oxygen in this context).

They need to make up their minds whether steeping is or isn't oxidation, and if it is ... then I would suggest an even better way of "blending" utilising concurrent aeration and mixing than their current offering.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Intuthu Kagesi (29/8/20)

zadiac said:


> Yes and no. Steeping is a chemical process, yes. All the components break down and mix (homogenizes over time). This device just speeds up the process. The science behind this is sound.



If steeping is a chemical reaction, then simply put, the components evolve into new components. (Components can't break down, they can only convert into new components). 
Homogenisation on the other hand is breaking down particle sizes small enough to enable and facilitate a uniform distribution within a fluid.

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## zadiac (29/8/20)

@Intuthu Kagesi 

Actually steeping isn't what is being done with e-liquid. Steeping comes from soaking solids in a liquid as to extract flavor or to soften it. Letting e-liquid sit for a time is to let the different flavors mix and "cure" to produce the final flavor product. It's more "curing" than steeping. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steeping
When I used the term "breaking down" it was in the wrong context, I'm sorry. I meant that the flavor molecules bond with each other to form new flavors and if you homogenize the liquid, you speed this up as flavors struggle to bond and mix in a viscous liquid like VG, so heating it up and homogenizing it will certainly speed this up imo and you can add the nicotine after this process if you're worried that the heating will oxidize the nicotine.
This is how I see this and it makes sense to me. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm not, but this looks legit to me.

Reactions: Like 6 | Agree 3 | Informative 1


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## NecroticAngel (29/8/20)

Isn't a homogenizer the thing I use to blend my soup? Stick blenders?

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## Intuthu Kagesi (29/8/20)

zadiac said:


> @Intuthu Kagesi
> 
> Actually steeping isn't what is being done with e-liquid. Steeping comes from soaking solids in a liquid as to extract flavor or to soften it. Letting e-liquid sit for a time is to let the different flavors mix and "cure" to produce the final flavor product. It's more "curing" than steeping.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steeping
> ...



So I agree that by blending, (or homogenizing if you prefer), of a more viscous to a less viscous liquid, that you would end up with a resultant fluid somewhere between the two viscosities, and this would be dependent on the viscosity and volumes of the fluids combined. 
I also agree that this viscosity will have an effect in turn on the distribution of any scents, (and flavours) in suspension, sure! ... however; 
This assumes that there is no chemical reaction / maturation / steeping happening, either within the flavours and fragrances or between them and the PG / VG and or Nic.
The reality however is that the less viscous, (or thinner), the resultant, the quicker those suspended particulates, (aka non chemically bonded), will settle out, requiring redistribution, (which is indeed what happens to eliquid, requiring a shake before using), however the nose or fragrance in fact improves over this initial period contrary to the settling theory, and implying a chemical reaction of sorts ... confusion!

Whilst I understand chemistry intimately, I'm a newbie WRT eliquid "brewing", and having watched the video offered up, and having read the "justifications", cannot make sense of it for all the contradictions therein, sooooo ... based on the old maxim of; "_if it doesn't make sense, you don't have all the information_", and or that it's bull####, my search for the truth continues ...

Reactions: Like 2


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## Intuthu Kagesi (29/8/20)

NecroticAngel said:


> Isn't a homogenizer the thing I use to blend my soup? Stick blenders?
> View attachment 205860


In a sense, yes! ...
The only difference being that in a true homogenizer, the liquid is forced through a mesh guaranteeing a minimum particulate size.

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## NecroticAngel (29/8/20)

Intuthu Kagesi said:


> In a sense, yes! ...
> The only difference being that in a true homogenizer, the liquid is forced through a mesh guaranteeing a minimum particulate size.


Thanks!! Well I happen to have a dremel and I like to make up stuff. Sometimes things work and sometimes not, maybe will come up with something

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## zadiac (29/8/20)

Intuthu Kagesi said:


> So I agree that by blending, (or homogenizing if you prefer), of a more viscous to a less viscous liquid, that you would end up with a resultant fluid somewhere between the two viscosities, and this would be dependent on the viscosity and volumes of the fluids combined.
> I also agree that this viscosity will have an effect in turn on the distribution of any scents, (and flavours) in suspension, sure! ... however;
> This assumes that there is no chemical reaction / maturation / steeping happening, either within the flavours and fragrances or between them and the PG / VG and or Nic.
> The reality however is that the less viscous, (or thinner), the resultant, the quicker those suspended particulates, (aka non chemically bonded), will settle out, requiring redistribution, (which is indeed what happens to eliquid, requiring a shake before using), however the nose or fragrance in fact improves over this initial period contrary to the settling theory, and implying a chemical reaction of sorts ... confusion!
> ...



Well said and we probably won't know until we test it ourselves. I like the idea and I'm willing to take one for the team when finance allows for it. The gadget can be used for other quick "blending" as well so it won't be a total loss if it doesn't work as intended (or hyped if you will).

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## Silo (29/8/20)

Welp, I shake like crazy, I can see how the juice mixes. When I leave it a min or two, I have so many bubbles it looks like foam at the top. I shake after that, test, then add nic and shake to simply mix. Works. But steeping still does weird stuff.

Reactions: Like 4


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## LeislB (29/8/20)

NecroticAngel said:


> Isn't a homogenizer the thing I use to blend my soup? Stick blenders?
> View attachment 205860


The problem with a blender is that in introduces a lot of air and this isn't ideal when it comes to steeping as increased oxygen leads to increased oxidation. This homogenizer basically moers the living daylights out of all the components forcing them to mix equally. I personally think this gadget will work, much like a sonicator is used to break open cell walls.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## Intuthu Kagesi (29/8/20)

NecroticAngel said:


> Thanks!! Well I happen to have a dremel and I like to make up stuff. Sometimes things work and sometimes not, maybe will come up with something



to modify a blender would be relatively easy really ... the holes / slots on the side would need to be blocked and new outlets made on the top, with a fine mesh in them  ... remember that they do heat the liquid by virtue of the friction through the mesh, so go easy on how long you run it for too.

You will ideally want some form of stand / clamping mechanism to hold the unit perpendicular, (a couple of mm from the base of the container holding the liquid you wish to homogenize), and you will run it on the highest possible speed, as commercial units typically run upwards of 20 000RPM.

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## Intuthu Kagesi (29/8/20)

zadiac said:


> Well said and we probably won't know until we test it ourselves. I like the idea and I'm willing to take one for the team when finance allows for it. The gadget can be used for other quick "blending" as well so it won't be a total loss if it doesn't work as intended (or hyped if you will).


I like that you're prepared to take for the team, however a cheaper and more effective test would be to ask someone who has access to a laboratory homogenizer, to homogenize a percentage of a few flavoured batches at varying times and grades against a control, and ... sample them

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## Intuthu Kagesi (29/8/20)

LeislB said:


> The problem with a blender is that in introduces a lot of air and this isn't ideal when it comes to steeping as increased oxygen leads to increased oxidation. This homogenizer basically moers the living daylights out of all the components forcing them to mix equally. I personally think this gadget will work, much like a sonicator is used to break open cell walls.



I agree, however the modifications I suggested should resolve this to a large degree, (moving the outlet to the top of the stick and meshing it), remembering that even the best homogenisers out there aerate up to a point, (including the device we're debating).

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## Jean claude Vaaldamme (29/8/20)

There are thousands of old hype threads on this forum to go read on all sorts of vape hardware.
Even if someone will buy this Vape fryer, they will not admit its a pos, history teach us that

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## zadiac (30/8/20)

Jean claude Vaaldamme said:


> There are thousands of old hype threads on this forum to go read on all sorts of vape hardware.
> Even if someone will buy this Vape fryer, they will not admit its a pos, history teach us that



I will. To keep others from wasting their money, I will warn them.

Reactions: Like 5 | Funny 1


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## Intuthu Kagesi (30/8/20)

I have a friend at a company called Firmenich, *https://www.firmenich.com*, in the business of flavours and fragrances, that I asked two questions; "Is this Chemistry,Voodoo or both, and; Would homogenization improve any steeping / maturation process", and thought I'd share the answers;

"Your question is a little more complex than your anticipated one word answer of whether my voodoo is magic or chemistry, save to say I'm a blimming Chemist, and that unto itself should answer what's happening within these volatile inhaleables. This is chemistry full stop.

As to the possibility that homogenization would speed up the process. Let me answer that by telling you how we conduct the final stages of our concentrates; We use Silverson L5M Lab Mixers, and although they can mix, emulsify homogenize, disintegrate and dissolve, we use them as glorified kitchen blenders, as to reiterate; This is chemistry, not a voodoo art, and clearly the better mixed the solution, the quicker the reaction time. Furthermore;
The samples are indeed aerated post mixing, to which we use we use a vacuum chamber to remove said aeration. I'm not even going to comment on your suggested Mickey Mouse shake rattle and roll Ultrasonic Cleaner method ..."

He also mentioned that without a Spectrometer to analyse any testing, any results would be subjective and anecdotal.

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## NecroticAngel (30/8/20)

+1 for the kitchen blender

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## KobusMTL (30/8/20)

So my question is, if i use a blender don't add nic and mix the vg+pg and concentrate with a blender would it have any effect on the flavour cause your are adding air to the mix?
I'm just tired of shaking.

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## Intuthu Kagesi (30/8/20)

KobusMTL said:


> So my question is, if i use a blender don't add nic and mix the vg+pg and concentrate with a blender would it have any effect on the flavour cause your are adding air to the mix?
> I'm just tired of shaking.



Use your blender, if for no other reason than to save your arm, (and having to explain why your arm is stiff ).

First prize would be to place your eliquid into a vacuum chamber post mixing, however the air will settle out on it's own over a couple of hours anyway.

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## Resistance (31/12/20)

KobusMTL said:


> So my question is, if i use a blender don't add nic and mix the vg+pg and concentrate with a blender would it have any effect on the flavour cause your are adding air to the mix?
> I'm just tired of shaking.



Blender works fine. Same as that hand mixers(stick /wand) thing. The homogeniser is essentially just a small version of the same thing (the one that uses a motor- Dremel,drill etc.) and in the case of the blender in a different form.
If you do a 1-2hr mixing session in the blender with intervals inbetween to get the juice back down and some of the bubbles to settle, you can expect good results after three days. This is still not a miracle cure. Juices still has to steep to achieve best results.

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## BurnerRSA (2/1/21)

I actually tried to get put on the waiting list for a Game Changer order and this was the reply...



> Hello. Thank you for your interest. Due to US Postal Service conditions related to the Covid-19 pandemic, delivery guarantees have been suspended by them and other restrictions appear to be in force. I'm very sorry but am not willing to ship to South Africa or several others at this time. Dan

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## zadiac (2/1/21)

BurnerRSA said:


> I actually tried to get put on the waiting list for a Game Changer order and this was the reply...



Just keep the connection. I'm down for one when he's willing to ship.

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## BurnerRSA (3/1/21)

zadiac said:


> Just keep the connection. I'm down for one when he's willing to ship.


Definitely will do...

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## BurnerRSA (3/1/21)

Lets see what his reply is..

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## BurnerRSA (3/1/21)

Dan's Reply to above email:

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## BUSDRIVER (9/1/21)

BurnerRSA said:


> Dan's Reply to above email:
> 
> View attachment 218293


 Has anybody thought about using a a vacuum blender that removes the air and creates a vacuum to mix eliquid and avoid oxidisation during the initial mix? Russell Hobbs has a R1899 vacuum blender that is half the cost of the gc changer

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## LeislB (9/1/21)

I bought a homogenizer from a guy in SA, I haven't used it a lot yet but works very well. Here is @KZOR talking about it:



If you'd like his number PM me or send me a whatsapp on Zero seven two 222 double six 24

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## Resistance (9/1/21)

Stew said:


> Also a plate attached to a windscreen wiper motor on the low speed setting, possibly with a variable resistor. You can mount your bottles on may be another idea. Just have to mount bottles securely so they cannot chafe. I have one for turning fishing rods while varnishing and until varnish sets.


Low budget vortex mixer . That's how I do it nowadays.not with your method I have a lower budget trick.

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 3


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## BUSDRIVER (11/1/21)

LeislB said:


> I bought a homogenizer from a guy in SA, I haven't used it a lot yet but works very well. Here is @KZOR talking about it:
> 
> 
> 
> If you'd like his number PM me or send me a whatsapp on Zero seven two 222 double six 24





Resistance said:


> Low budget vortex mixer . That's how I do it nowadays.not with your method I have a lower budget trick.


Which vortex mixer are you using links?

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## Resistance (11/1/21)

BUSDRIVER said:


> Which vortex mixer are you using links?


I am not by the means to buy one. I have a DIY version.

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## alex1501 (11/1/21)

Resistance said:


> I am not by the means to buy one. I have a DIY version.



Some smart dude on this forum said (once or twice): "Pictures or it didn't happen".

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## Resistance (11/1/21)

alex1501 said:


> Some smart dude on this forum said (once or twice): "Pictures or it didn't happen".


Once apon a time. In a town far, far away a Mexican outlaw and his crew was in a bar. As usual taking over the place.
The a cowboy came in, went straight to the bar and sat down. Ordered a whiskey and drank it.
The Boss walked up to him and asked where his from. He replied from over the river(border to America)
And wantin' to show his power the Boss wanted to make a statement. He bought two whiskey's. Asked the bar man, hey barman. How much is a-one + a-one. He answered I don't know senior.
Boss said goooood.(in a husky old voice)
Next he asked one of his crew. Hey Manolito, how much is a-one + a-one.
Manolito answers, a-one senior. The Boss answered gooood(same husky old voice)
Then he asked Pedro. Hey Pedro how much is a-one + a-one? Pedro answered a-one + a-one is a-two senior. The boss shot him in the chest. He shouts ,but senioooor as he drops down. The cowboy ask him ,but why would you shoot Pedro. The Boss replied... He knew too much!

Reactions: Funny 6


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## Resistance (11/1/21)

alex1501 said:


> Some smart dude on this forum said (once or twice): "Pictures or it didn't happen".


I have a few at current.latest one is a very rough,but working prototype. It looks like crap still.

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## Resistance (11/1/21)

alex1501 said:


> Some smart dude on this forum said (once or twice): "Pictures or it didn't happen".


I was going to modify a stick blender,but ai! The story of my life.

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## Intuthu Kagesi (11/1/21)

Resistance said:


> I have a few at current.latest one is a very tough,but working prototype. It looks like crap still.
> View attachment 218990



Most of my prototypes have been much the same held together with "_bloudraad and duct tape_" ... nothing wrong in doing a proof of concept before investing copious amounts of time and money in something that may not even work

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## ivc_mixer (13/1/21)

What I would like to see, before I spend R2.5K on a homogeniser and another R1K on a Dremel (which to be honest I will only use for this) is someone who mixes a specific recipe, preferably a cream/dessert type which needs two weeks steep, then let it stand for the necessary two weeks. Then once the two weeks is over mix the exact same flavour again then test the freshly mixed flavour and comment. Then use the homogeniser on the freshly mixed juice, test it again and comment. And then test the 2 weeks steeped juice and comment. A proper comparison. @KZOR's video is awesome, but he only tested the new juice after it was put through its paces and he also did not comment on whether the juice was tasting as it should if it had been standing for two weeks or such.

I've known about homogenisers and how they are supposed to be the best thing to speed up juice steeping for many years now but back in the day buying one would have cost around R50K so it was not a feasible option. Now that one is available I would really like to get one, but the lingering question still is, "is this hype or is this real". The concept behind homogenisers speak to the fact that it should be real, but R3.5K is a lot of money and the fact that I do not own a Hexohm speaks to the fact that I do not always buy into hype (*cough* Argus GT *cough* but in my defense, it is pretty).

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## Dela Rey Steyn (13/1/21)

ivc_mixer said:


> What I would like to see, before I spend R2.5K on a homogeniser and another R1K on a Dremel (which to be honest I will only use for this) is someone who mixes a specific recipe, preferably a cream/dessert type which needs two weeks steep, then let it stand for the necessary two weeks. Then once the two weeks is over mix the exact same flavour again then test the freshly mixed flavour and comment. Then use the homogeniser on the freshly mixed juice, test it again and comment. And then test the 2 weeks steeped juice and comment. A proper comparison. @KZOR's video is awesome, but he only tested the new juice after it was put through its paces and he also did not comment on whether the juice was tasting as it should if it had been standing for two weeks or such.
> 
> I've known about homogenisers and how they are supposed to be the best thing to speed up juice steeping for many years now but back in the day buying one would have cost around R50K so it was not a feasible option. Now that one is available I would really like to get one, but the lingering question still is, "is this hype or is this real". The concept behind homogenisers speak to the fact that it should be real, but R3.5K is a lot of money and the fact that I do not own a Hexohm speaks to the fact that I do not always buy into hype (*cough* Argus GT *cough* but in my defense, it is pretty).


Personally, my level of DIY is so sub-par, I would probably never buy one, but I agree with your thinking that I would first look for a totally unbiased review of it from someone that mixes (well) on a regular basis. And I also agree that the Argus is damn sexy AF..

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## ivc_mixer (13/1/21)

Dela Rey Steyn said:


> Personally, my level of DIY is so sub-par, I would probably never buy one, but I agree with your thinking that I would first look for a totally unbiased review of it from someone that mixes (well) on a regular basis. And I also agree that the Argus is damn sexy AF..
> View attachment 219170

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## Intuthu Kagesi (13/1/21)

Has anyone here bothered to try out their kitchen blender as is? ... I can't see why it wouldn't work effectively ... 
A simple back to back test with half a batch "blended", and the other half the same way they've always done it.

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## Dela Rey Steyn (13/1/21)

Intuthu Kagesi said:


> Has anyone here bothered to try out their kitchen blender as is? ... I can't see why it wouldn't work effectively ...
> A simple back to back test with half a batch "blended", and the other half the same way they've always done it.


I think that would introduce too much air and the mix would oxidize faster losing taste/nic strength

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## ivc_mixer (13/1/21)

Dela Rey Steyn said:


> I think that would introduce too much air and the mix would oxidize faster losing taste/nic strength



Exactly this.

Homogenisers work on the principle, as mentioned by KZOR, that it reduces the particles of the ingredients in the juice to the same size, which then allows for a proper mixing/combining to happen (I cannot comment on the exact science behind it but this is approximately the idea). I would however not suggest if one has one of those to put it as high as he did and thus create the multitude of bubbles but rather keep it on a low speed and just run it a bit longer.

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## Intuthu Kagesi (13/1/21)

Dela Rey Steyn said:


> I think that would introduce too much air and the mix would oxidize faster losing taste/nic strength



I'm not arguing the introduction of air, I'm wondering if anyone has thrown caution to the wind and tested a smallish batch as a back to back test.

On the subject of air introduction ... If you observe commercial homogenisers in action, you'll note that they too introduce some air ... Even the one Kzor tested introduced sh# loads of air, (_the fluid even went milky, which is a classic indicator_), however this would settle out within a few hours,

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## Resistance (13/1/21)

Intuthu Kagesi said:


> Has anyone here bothered to try out their kitchen blender as is? ... I can't see why it wouldn't work effectively ...
> A simple back to back test with half a batch "blended", and the other half the same way they've always done it.


Results only after about three days on heavy deserts and much better after 5. But who wants to mix a 100ml in a blender all the thime

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## Resistance (13/1/21)

Dela Rey Steyn said:


> I think that would introduce too much air and the mix would oxidize faster losing taste/nic strength


Bubbles settle after ten minutes without forcing it in a vacuum anything.

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## Resistance (13/1/21)

Intuthu Kagesi said:


> I'm not arguing the introduction of air, I'm wondering if anyone has thrown caution to the wind and tested a smallish batch as a back to back test.
> 
> 
> On the subject of air introduction ... If you observe commercial homogenisers in action, you'll note that they too introduce some air ... Even the one Kzor tested introduced sh# loads of air, (_the fluid even went milky, which is a classic indicator_), however this would settle out within a few hours,


Even in a closed chamber the space between the molecules gets altered as the molecules gets altered (please don't get too technical, its not the proper terms used, it's to get the explanation out) so unless it's mixed in a vacuum chamber under pressure there will be bubbles. Unless it's very low speed and only used to mix

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## Intuthu Kagesi (13/1/21)

Resistance said:


> Results only after about three days on heavy deserts and much better after 5. But who wants to mix a 100ml in a blender all the thime


I do!!!!! 
If I can blend, blender and vape as apposed waiting a few weeks, then you have my attention
Dammit ... if you're shaving two / three weeks off steeping time, then you're probably oxidising the nic LESS than the lengthy steep process would ... #just saying

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## Intuthu Kagesi (13/1/21)

We can either debate this ad infinitum and fall into the trap of analysis paralysis, or ... {_drum roll_| ...

One of the DIY experts on this forum "_takes one for the team_", and physically tests a couple of small batches in a back to back test

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## LeislB (13/1/21)

I'll do this, I have one. Have a couple of dessert juices made last year so just need to whip up a new batch and test. One doesn't add the nicotine until after homogenizing so any bubbles introduced are not really an issue. You also heat the VG up slightly so adding nic in the beginning isn't a good idea.

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## ivc_mixer (13/1/21)

LeislB said:


> I'll do this, I have one. Have a couple of dessert juices made last year so just need to whip up a new batch and test. One doesn't add the nicotine until after homogenizing so any bubbles introduced are not really an issue. You also heat the VG up slightly so adding nic in the beginning isn't a good idea.


Thanks Leisl! It would be really nice to have a proper comparison done so one can figure if the cost would be worth it.

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## KZOR (13/1/21)

Intuthu Kagesi said:


> Even the one Kzor tested introduced sh# loads of air



And that is the reason why you add in the nicotine afterwards.

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## Intuthu Kagesi (13/1/21)

LeislB said:


> I'll do this, I have one. Have a couple of dessert juices made last year so just need to whip up a new batch and test. One doesn't add the nicotine until after homogenizing so any bubbles introduced are not really an issue. You also heat the VG up slightly so adding nic in the beginning isn't a good idea.



You're a star ... Thanks LeislB  ... I have visions of another video being posted

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## Resistance (13/1/21)

Intuthu Kagesi said:


> We can either debate this ad infinitum and fall into the trap of analysis paralysis, or ... {_drum roll_| ...
> 
> One of the DIY experts on this forum "_takes one for the team_", and physically tests a couple of small batches in a back to back test


Done. After the 5 days. It will still get much better with time. 
Like I said it's.not a.miracle.cure for steeping

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## LeislB (13/1/21)

Intuthu Kagesi said:


> You're a star ... Thanks LeislB  ... I have visions of another video being posted


I'm not one for videos but will definitely report back!

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## Intuthu Kagesi (14/1/21)

LeislB said:


> I'm not one for videos but will definitely report back!



I just tried something ...
I poured a mix of roughly 50% PG, 50% VG, and about a ml of green food colouring into a beaker and blended it.
I pressed the stick blender firmly against the base of the beaker and ran it for just on one minute, and we seem to have a perfectly homogenized mixture, (_by virtue of the even colour_), with minimal aeration ...

NB: This was room temperature VG and PG too!

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## Resistance (14/1/21)

Intuthu Kagesi said:


> I just tried something ...
> I poured a mix of roughly 50% PG, 50% VG, and about a ml of green food colouring into a beaker and blended it.
> I pressed the stick blender firmly against the base of the beaker and ran it for just on one minute, and we seem to have a perfectly homogenized mixture, (_by virtue of the even colour_), with minimal aeration ...
> 
> ...


You will achieve similar results using a DIY mix. The mixer will mix the ingredients to a confirmatory mix. Fruits will be fine deserts would still have to sleep in.

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## Intuthu Kagesi (14/1/21)

Resistance said:


> You will achieve similar results using a DIY mix. The mixer will mix the ingredients to a confirmatory mix. Fruits will be fine deserts would still have to sleep in.



So the first test, in my opinion, is a success ... the kitchen blender mixes it all perfectly, in fact so much so, that I would go so far as to say toss the Nic in and blend that at the same time, as there is minimal aeration.

Be that as it may ... The second test should be a back to back, and include flavouring and Nic ... and ... a comparison made on the steeping requirements, (if any?), to which I eagerly await Leisl's results

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## LeislB (14/1/21)

Hi all. 

So I mixed a Frosteez remix which requires a 4 week steep. I had a pre-made bottle which I made on the 28/09/2020. The fresh one I made last night and homogenized it. As you can see, the juice is properly mixed and milky in appearance, side by side shot:


This morning I added the nic. You can see from the Pic today that the steeped juice has a far richer colour:


I put a fresh set of Lazy panda Nano aliens in my Asgard mini and did a side by side comparison. First I vaped the steeped mix, it's perfectly balanced with nice nutty notes. Next I vaped the homogenized fresh juice. While it is lovely and imminently vapeable it is missing some of the notes of the steeped version, especially the nuts, they are there just not as prominent. My guess is that the homogenizer does decrease the steeping time required. I will store them both in a dark cupboard and check again in a weeks time.

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## Intuthu Kagesi (14/1/21)

Thanks so much Leisl  ... I await the results with baited breath, as your initial results certainly sound promising 
I'm intrigued that your juice went milky on mixing tho'

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## LeislB (14/1/21)

Intuthu Kagesi said:


> Thanks so much Leisl  ... I await the results with baited breath, as your initial results certainly sound promising
> I'm intrigued that your juice went milky on mixing tho'


It mixes the living daylights out of the juice!

I just dripped the steeped one again and it's tasting more similar to the homogenized one. I think the homogenized one is ever so slightly less refined. This being said, changing the waiting process from 4 weeks to a couple of days is a real win, especially for dessert mixes.
Hopefully I'll remember to take photos daily to report back

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## Intuthu Kagesi (14/1/21)

LeislB said:


> It mixes the living daylights out of the juice!
> 
> I just dripped the steeped one again and it's tasting more similar to the homogenized one. I think the homogenized one is ever so slightly less refined. This being said, changing the waiting process from 4 weeks to a couple of days is a real win, especially for dessert mixes.
> Hopefully I'll remember to take photos daily to report back



Them food blenders mix the @#$% out of the juice, (_I forgot to mention that I did my mixing on low speed, and with the blender goochibang/thingamambob resting on the bottom of the beaker ... I did this only because of a previous experience with vegetable soup, where I successfully redecorated the walls in my kitchen with erm .... "organic paint"_)
I am really excited about this, as I really believe this is a cheap(er) solution to DIY blending

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## Intuthu Kagesi (16/1/21)

Any updates @LeislB ?

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## LeislB (16/1/21)

Intuthu Kagesi said:


> Any updates @LeislB ?


I have a confession, I think the bottle I made it in had a fruit juice in it before and I'm tasting residual fruitiness. I think I will have to repeat the experiment, SIGH!

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## Resistance (16/1/21)

Intuthu Kagesi said:


> Them food blenders mix the @#$% out of the juice, (_I forgot to mention that I did my mixing on low speed, and with the blender goochibang/thingamambob resting on the bottom of the beaker ... I did this only because of a previous experience with vegetable soup, where I successfully redecorated the walls in my kitchen with erm .... "organic paint"_)
> I am really excited about this, as I really believe this is a cheap(er) solution to DIY blending

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## Intuthu Kagesi (16/1/21)

LeislB said:


> I have a confession, I think the bottle I made it in had a fruit juice in it before and I'm tasting residual fruitiness. I think I will have to repeat the experiment, SIGH!



I guess it depends on what fruit was in there before, as you may have invented a new flavour 

This may be a blessing in disguise though, as when I did the test blending, I placed the blender squarely on the base of the beaker, and ran in on low speed, (_low is still flippen hectic BTW_), and I had waaaaaaaaay less aeration than you ... so much so, that I even suggested adding the Nic into the blending operation as well ... so try that this time around and see if you get the same results, (_unless our blenders are that vastly different from one another_?)

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## LeislB (17/1/21)

I transferred the juice into a virgin bottle and the traces of litchi have disappeared and what's left is a perfect milky frosted Flakes vape. Success!

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## Intuthu Kagesi (18/1/21)

LeislB said:


> I transferred the juice into a virgin bottle and the traces of litchi have disappeared and what's left is a perfect milky frosted Flakes vape. Success!



Thanks for that quick demonstration of the porosity of plastics

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## LeislB (18/1/21)

Intuthu Kagesi said:


> Thanks for that quick demonstration of the porosity of plastics


Sign of a 5* quality reviewer - NOT!

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## Intuthu Kagesi (18/1/21)

LeislB said:


> Sign of a 5* quality reviewer - NOT!



O gowan ... I rate you highly  .... aaaand ... you're prepared to step out of the box and try on new things 

I seem to recall a number of complimentary comments post your last video too

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## Intuthu Kagesi (19/1/21)

Hi @LeislB,
Any chance of a pic? ... You "blended" last week Thursday. making today day 5

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## LeislB (19/1/21)

@Intuthu Kagesi will do

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## LeislB (20/1/21)

Still quite a colour difference. Put the fresh batch in a clear bottle for easier comparison:

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## KZOR (20/1/21)

@LeislB .... that looks about right. 
The two batches of custards i have mixed steeped about 75% quicker than it normally does via the cupboard method.

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## Intuthu Kagesi (20/1/21)

LeislB said:


> Still quite a colour difference. Put the fresh batch in a clear bottle for easier comparison:
> 
> View attachment 219978



Thanks so much Leisl 
That's quite remarkable really, as the one on the left was made on the 28th September , (If that date is correct) vs. a mere 5 days ago.
How is the taste?

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## LeislB (20/1/21)

Intuthu Kagesi said:


> Thanks so much Leisl
> That's quite remarkable really, as the one on the left was made on the 28th September , (If that date is correct) vs. a mere 5 days ago.
> How is the taste?


The flavor is pretty much spot on!

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## Intuthu Kagesi (20/1/21)

LeislB said:


> The flavor is pretty much spot on!



Yeeeeehaaaaaaaaa  Thanks Leisl 
I guess that concludes the trusty kitchen blender saga ... It seems it is an effective juice blending tool after all

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## LeislB (20/1/21)

The homogenizer is a little more complex than a kitchen blender, pics attached. Fits on the end of a dremel.

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## Intuthu Kagesi (20/1/21)

LeislB said:


> The homogenizer is a little more complex than a kitchen blender, pics attached. Fits on the end of a dremel.
> View attachment 219997
> View attachment 219998
> View attachment 219999



I though you used a kitchen blender as I did?
If you used what is in your pic above, I would hardly call that a Homogeniser, rather a blender / aerator of sorts, as the clearances and holes sizes preclude it
This is pretty much the defacto Homogeniser:
https://www.silverson.com/us/products/laboratory-mixers

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## LeislB (20/1/21)

No, I didn't use a blender

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## Intuthu Kagesi (20/1/21)

That's interesting ...
What you used is certainly not a homogeniser, it's a beater / mixer of a sort, and based on the tests conducted in this thread ... It aerated your ejuice way more than than my kitchen blender did, (_scroll back to the test I did, which was 50% VG, 50% PG, and some VG based food die_), meaning I would still recommend a kitchen blender over the device you used.

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## BUSDRIVER (25/1/21)

LeislB said:


> The homogenizer is a little more complex than a kitchen blender, pics attached. Fits on the end of a dremel.
> View attachment 219997
> View attachment 219998
> View attachment 219999



@LeislB where did you get this homogeniser head from , name and brand, curious?

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## Resistance (25/1/21)

How much are you guys willing to pay to have it made?

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## Intuthu Kagesi (25/1/21)

Resistance said:


> How much are you guys willing to pay to have it made?



It seems it retails for $150. 

A proper homogenizer, with the correct clearances along with it's own dedicated integrated motor could be manufactured for a lot less in SA ... but why bother, as what is required is mixing NOT homogenisation ... and it seems a "kitchen blender" does that more effectively than the $150 unit, (_certainly with substantially less aeration). S_croll back to see the food colouring, 50/50 PG-VG mix test.

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## Resistance (25/1/21)

Intuthu Kagesi said:


> It seems it retails for $150.
> 
> A proper homogenizer, with the correct clearances along with it's own dedicated integrated motor could be manufactured for a lot less in SA ... but why bother, as what is required is mixing NOT homogenisation ... and it seems a "kitchen blender" does that more effectively than the $150 unit, (_certainly with substantially less aeration). S_croll back to see the food colouring, 50/50 PG-VG mix test.



I don't want to sound funny ,bit I've mixed this way before. When I started vaping I tried and did lots of experimenting. 
I was thinking of making a smaller version of the wand type mixer. And I'm long overdue to do it.

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## Intuthu Kagesi (25/1/21)

Resistance said:


> I don't want to sound funny ,bit I've mixed this way before. When I started vaping I tried and did lots of experimenting.
> I was thinking of making a smaller version of the wand type mixer. And I'm long overdue to do it.



I'm not convinced that it's worth the time and effort Resistance, certainly not after seeing the positive results of a run of the mill kitchen blender

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## Resistance (25/1/21)

Intuthu Kagesi said:


> I'm not convinced that it's worth the time and effort Resistance, certainly not after seeing the positive results of a run of the mill kitchen blender


You know. It's not really that. I set out to do it. I always think about it when I DIY. And now someone else has done it and all I did was collect parts that gets lost because I didnt start. So I'm still going to do it even if it fails. Then I'll decide if I will try and improve it or just leave it. 
Then I'd be happy.

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## Intuthu Kagesi (25/1/21)

Resistance said:


> You know. It's not really that. I set out to do it. I always think about it when I DIY. And now someone else has done it and all I did was collect parts that gets lost because I didnt start. So I'm still going to do it even if it fails. Then I'll decide if I will try and improve it or just leave it.
> Then I'd be happy.



I get that ... and I too enjoy a good engineering challenge, however to go ahead and design a true homogeniser, when the requirement is a simple mixer seems a little silly, particularly so in that most people already have a stick blender in their kitchens ... but hey ... the chicken crossed the road because it could, so if the urge persists, go for it

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## Christos (25/1/21)

Intuthu Kagesi said:


> I get that ... and I too enjoy a good engineering challenge, however to go ahead and design a true homogeniser, when the requirement is a simple mixer seems a little silly, particularly so in that most people already have a stick blender in their kitchens ... but hey ... the chicken crossed the road because it could, so if the urge persists, go for it


The chicken crossed the road to actualise it’s potential but that depends on the frame of reference as the chicken could have crossed the road or the road crossed the chicken depending on the frame of reference.

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## Intuthu Kagesi (25/1/21)

Christos said:


> The chicken crossed the road to actualise it’s potential but that depends on the frame of reference as the chicken could have crossed the road or the road crossed the chicken depending on the frame of reference.



The Chicken may have gotten cross with the road for interrupting it's journey too

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## Munro31 (25/1/21)

#@!$ the chicken!!!! Nobody cares about the humble pig

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## Intuthu Kagesi (25/1/21)

Munro31 said:


> #@!$ the chicken!!!! Nobody cares about the humble pig



That's 'cos we've already turned him into bacon ... Hows that for commitment from the Pig ... the Chicken however we still need for it's ongoing contribution to breakfast in the form of eggs

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## Resistance (25/1/21)

The chicken crossed the road because it was in the farmers hands when he walked across to the butcher shop.

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## Christos (26/1/21)

Munro31 said:


> #@!$ the chicken!!!! Nobody cares about the humble pig


Man, you guys do weird things to chickens in witbank

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## Intuthu Kagesi (26/1/21)

Christos said:


> Man, you guys do weird things to chickens in witbank


That's nothing ... Have you seen how they humble a pig?

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## Munro31 (26/1/21)

Witbank is weird man, it's like all the weirdos get kicked out of towns and cities and end up here, humbling pigs and carrying chickens. Wait to you hear about the sheep fiasco!

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## Intuthu Kagesi (26/1/21)

Munro31 said:


> Witbank is weird man, it's like all the weirdos get kicked out of towns and cities and end up here, humbling pigs and carrying chickens. Wait to you hear about the sheep fiasco!



Was it this one? ...

https://witbanknews.co.za/22949/fruit-chutney-lamb-curry/

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## KZOR (26/1/21)

Intuthu Kagesi said:


> meaning I would still recommend a kitchen blender over the device you used



I would not.

The blades on blenders are very limited when it comes to the size they can break down particles. It takes a lot of energy to cut food into tiny pieces. As the pieces become smaller, it takes vastly more kinetic energy to break them smaller still. At some point, the blade of a blender simply cannot hit the food hard enough.

Homogenizers produce largely greater shear forces by the fact that its a blade inside a cage that forces liquid through holes (kind of like putting your fist in the palm of your other hand and grinding. This action can not only break up larger particles at a quicker rate but also force smaller particle sizes.

Because i primarily mix fruits which steep alot quicker i did use a kitchen blender as part of my DIY career but then switched to a hotplate stirrer which i found to be more effective as you could mix up the mixture without agitating the nicotine (at the appropriate temperature) and it could run on its own for a few hours and end off cutting a week of steeping.

If i was into desserts then homogenizing would be the only method i would use as it is by far the most effective way in cutting steeping time.
And stop bringing up aeration as it is only a issue when you have nicotine in your mixture which is not the case while homogenizing. Nicotine is added after after the homogenizing process and when the mixture was left for the aeration to settle.

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## Intuthu Kagesi (26/1/21)

KZOR said:


> I would not.
> 
> The blades on blenders are very limited when it comes to the size they can break down particles. It takes a lot of energy to cut food into tiny pieces. As the pieces become smaller, it takes vastly more kinetic energy to break them smaller still. At some point, the blade of a blender simply cannot hit the food hard enough.
> 
> ...



Hi Kzor,
We're going to have to agree to disagree here I'm afraid, as whilst I agree that a true homogenizer would certainly get the job done very efficiently, and certainly better than a kitchen blender; Your device is NOT a homogenizer! The shearing action of a homogenizer happens via exceptionally tight clearances between the rotor and outer cage, (_fractions of a micron in fact_), along with meshes of varying sizes to guarantee particular particle sizes, and your device lacks this, with it's huge clearances and huge holes drilled into the outer tube that would be measured in mm, not microns, and lack square, (_to the rotor_), faces to conduct the shear action you claim, (refer_ pic below_).
Certainly after having the opportunity to examine and for that matter watch a Silversun homogenizer in action vs. your one in your video vs my kitchen blender ... I would rate the Silversun an obvious clear winner, (_they are after all the defacto homogenizer standard in industry_), and between the other two ... I would place my kitchen blender above your device even if just on the aeration differences! ... clearly simple mixing would be better in a kitchen blender vs your device, and neither the kitchen blender nor your device can claim homogenization (aka molecular shearing), so they both fail the last point.

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## Munro31 (26/1/21)

Intuthu Kagesi said:


> Was it this one? ...
> 
> https://witbanknews.co.za/22949/fruit-chutney-lamb-curry/


Yes, but the fiasco is how they got it so tender

Reactions: Funny 5


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