# Big pharma enters vaping



## RichJB (20/11/16)

I've just watched a very interesting vlog in which Enyawreklaw outlines his recent commissioning by big pharma to design a few juice recipes for them. It's not in his regular vaping videos, it's in his Test video for the gaming part of DoD. Anyway, the essence is that a big pharma company approached him and several other top mixers from ELR, Reddit, etc, paid them to create new recipes, and this big pharma company has now created a juice line which has apparently been very well received by the vaping community. Of course, they don't know that it's big pharma juice they're vaping. But with Wayne and other top mixers having done the recipes, I can imagine that it will be good.

This pushes the whole development and mainstreaming of vaping a further step towards being a fully-fledged consumer industry. Wayne noted how easy it was for this big pharma company. The corporate team he worked with aren't even vapers, one of them had a vape pen device. So they had to all get into the boss's car and drive to the vape shop to buy a Kanger starter kit so that they could sample Wayne's juices. And yet, despite not even being vapers and not knowing anything about vaping, their juice line is already doing well. They just use their bottomless coffers to buy DIY talent, and then have the funds as well to market their product extremely well. Plus of course they'll have the funds to get their PMTA submissions passed by the FDA.

I've said all along that the fears of the FDA regs killing vaping were unfounded. With both big tobacco and big pharma now involved in vaping and creating revenue streams from it, vaping isn't going to be destroyed. Quite the contrary, it's going to grow and grow fast. However, it's going to do it in the same that other industry sectors develop: with big corporates dominating and squeezing out the little guys.

I'd equate it to computer gaming. When gaming first started, companies like id (Doom) consisted of half a dozen mates who got together and coded a game in their garage. When those games sold ten million copies, it was only going to be a matter of time before the heavy hitters like Warner Brothers and Sony got involved. Once they did, the little guys were just bought out or eliminated. Now it takes $50m to develop a top computer game, it's moved completely beyond the realm of small start-ups working in garages.

We will see this in vaping too. There are currently 10k juice manufacturers, it's a fragmented market where nobody has the R&D or marketing clout to dominate. For a heavy hitter in big pharma, moving into this sector and taking the lion's share of sales is going to be like taking candy from a baby. Nobody can stand up to the sheer financial muscle they bring. Some might be disgusted at Wayne for collaborating with "the enemy" but he is going to do what is in his financial interests. And every other top mixer will too. 

On the hardware front, things are a bit more settled with fewer and bigger manufacturers. But even there, if the likes of Apple, Sony, Samsung decide that vaping mods will produce a profitable revenue stream for them, then Smok, Kanger, Aspire et al are going to be owned in the biggest possible way.

It might not be the way that many vapers wanted the industry to go. It is pretty cool that it's an industry where "little guys" like Wayne or Squidoode or Jay-Bo can carve out lucrative careers for themselves. Of course, they'll continue to work in vaping. But it will be as corporate consultants and employees rather than entrepreneurs. It's sad but it's an inevitable part of capitalism.

Sorry for the wall of text but in these uncertain times with the FDA regs kicking in, I just thought I'd give my two cents (maybe a bit more than that, heh) on where the industry is going. I don't think it's dying nor even threatened. But I do think it's headed towards the inevitable capitalist end game of a sector dominated by a handful of huge corporations.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1 | Winner 3


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## Strontium (20/11/16)

I like the fact that big pharma is getting involved, it will make it more mainstream, more varied and lower price points due to bulk production and competitive selling.
Vaping was never going to be regulated out of existence, all the consumable items needed to vape are commercially available for other industries for the most part.
I would be disgusted to see big tobacco get involved though but this too will surely come to pass.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## RichJB (20/11/16)

It has already come to pass. The cigalike sector is owned by big tobacco. Njoy was the only non-tobacco player and they have gone bust. Which is kinda inevitable when they're competing against tobacco. It seems that the tobacco companies aren't very interested in the "open system" vaping devices which we favour. Instead they have gone for closed system cigalikes. They are also aiming at the masses with cheap plug-n-play devices, the DNA 200 and stabilised wood sector is of no interest to them.


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## RichJB (20/11/16)

On the other hand, I think big pharma entering the juice market should probably throw up some red flags for the DIY community. Big corporations don't like it when people make equivalents of their products at home. If you could get a recipe to make your own Disprin at home, big pharma would put a stop to it right sharpish. If they increase their stake in juice, watch for them to start lobbying government to outlaw having nicotine at home because of the "lethal risk that it poses to children". And govt will agree with them. Fortunately nic is the only ingredient they can stop. So 0mg DIY ftw.


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## RichJB (20/11/16)

Later in the same video, Wayne addressed a question that I've been asking: if there is a freeze in place and no new products have been allowed into the vaping market since 8 Aug, why is Rip Trippers releasing new juices, why are hardware reviewers still doing reviews and these products are still finding their way into US vape shops? Wayne's take is that the FDA hasn't clamped down at all on new products. They have only gone after dealers who are selling to minors. But the new product freeze effectively doesn't exist because it's not being enforced. 

Prior to the regs coming out, we were led to believe that the FDA was hell-bent on stopping all vaping. If that is the case, they are being exceedingly lax about it. My sense is that the FDA is not really fussed about it, expects Cole-Bishop to succeed, and is not bothering to enforce the freeze because they envisage the grandfather date being pushed forward anyway.

Wayne also notes that it's a pity that many smaller companies envisaged the freeze being enforced vigorously, gave up and left the industry. I think that may have been a deliberate ploy by the FDA. They must have been anticipating a flood of applications which would have tied them up in PMTA assessments for years. By making out initially that the regs would be vigorously enforced, they have caused the smaller and less committed companies to give up and leave. So when it comes to actually processing the applications, they'll only be dealing with the more committed companies. Govt agencies, like everybody else, are inherently lazy and would prefer to only process 2000 rather than 20000 applications. Especially if 15000 of those applications are from companies operating out of back rooms and garages.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if those applicants who stick at it find that the PMTA process isn't nearly as arduous as they thought. Big pharma and big tobacco have sources inside the FDA. If they are both investing in vaping, I doubt that the FDA are dead-set on destroying it. No big company invests in a product that is about to be regulated out of existence. The vaping industry needs to pay more attention to what the FDA, big pharma and big tobacco do, and less attention to what they say. We are being bluffed big time.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Effjh (20/11/16)

Sorry if OT, watched the video and couldn't help but wondering who the genius was asking Wayne for advice on using Clyrolinx concentrates.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## RichJB (20/11/16)

"I don't know those. Ask Mr Hardwicks."


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## Soutie (20/11/16)

I honestly don't know if that is such a bad thing.

There will always be a 'craft' market, pretty much the same way as there is a craft market for beer. The big players don't see this as a threat as they have the advertising revenue to reach the public at large.

As vaping gets more and more main stream there is becoming a need for regulation in order to assure the quality of juice, we are inhaling it after all and a few people getting very sick will taint the market.

Big pharma entering in will at least help keep Unreasonable regulations at bay, they can be the guys who lobby in congress and at least keep the industry alive. Mom and pop stores don't have the money to lobby congress and get laws stopped, it's a free for all and the FDA gets to do whatever the hell it wants. Vaping is not in a good place at the moment with the FDA and the TPD as there isn't the money and influence to fight is, this might change that.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## RichJB (20/11/16)

Yeah, I don't think it's either a good thing or a bad thing, just an inevitability. The vaping industry is sitting on a cash cow that is fattening up nicely as the numbers start to arrive. They weren't going to keep corporate interests out indefinitely.

It will be sad for the smaller players who fall by the wayside but that was going to happen anyway. There is no FMCG industry where the market is shared equally among several thousand manufacturers. Rationalisation goes with the territory.

Reactions: Agree 2


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