# VPASA - disassociate vaping from tobacco products



## Hooked (26/5/20)

*Vaping body wants to be disassociated from tobacco sector and allowed to operate online during Level 3*
https://www.iol.co.za/the-star/news...wed-to-operate-online-during-level-3-48477268

"The vaping industry is demanding to be allowed to sell its products online and for delivery during lockdown level3. They also want to be disassociated from the tobacco sector.
Vapour Products Association of South Africa (VPASA) chief executive Asanda Gcoyi told The Star that the narrative that vapour products, cigarettes and tobacco products were the same was problematic...

The VPASA is calling for the government to allow vapour products to be purchased online and for delivery during lockdown level 3.

The chief executive said the lockdown had been very bad for the vapour products industry, because the sector largely consisted of small businesses. She added that most of the business owners were former smokers who found a safe alternative and then opened shops.

“We’ve got about 5000 direct jobs that are at risk and we’ve about 400-500 small businesses across South Africa, and a lot are on the brink of bankruptcy because they can’t sell,” she said.

Gcoyi said the VPASA was worried that customers would go back to smoking.

“My other concern is the illicit market. People are buying vape juice from shops we know nothing about, we hear it’s available at spaza shops, stories that people are mixing juices at home, which is extremely dangerous, because they are just mixing things and the environment is not right.” ...

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 1 | Winner 2 | Optimistic 1


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## alex1501 (26/5/20)

Hooked said:


> stories that people are mixing juices at home, which is extremely dangerous, because they are just mixing things and the environment is not right.” ...



Everyone tries to abuse the situation to further their own agenda. "Never let good crisis go to waste".

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 5 | Funny 1


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## Puff the Magic Dragon (26/5/20)

The track record of VAPASA has never impressed me.



Hooked said:


> stories that people are mixing juices at home, which is extremely dangerous, because they are just mixing things and the environment is not right.” ...



Saying that DIY is dangerous is outrageous. If someone is not capable of DIY juice making then in all likelihood they would be able to kill or harm themselves when baking or gardening. One would also assume that mixing baby milk formula at home would be similarly dangerous. It is also legal to buy a chainsaw and use it at home.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 12 | Winner 2


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## vicTor (26/5/20)

the diy statement upsets me

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 10


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## Feliks Karp (26/5/20)

The DIY upsets me too but does kinda make sense, I personally prefer buying from ISO certified vendors because mixing is easy, but do people do it in a clean environment? People mixing their own for their own consumption is fine, but I'm getting offers for more and more home brew stuff, and I immediately wonder if it's produced in a dust free/clean environment, did they wash their hands, etc

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 3 | Funny 1


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## kolakidd (26/5/20)

Strictly from my POV, I think if you understand how media works then it shouldn't take it to personally. If you want to get people to take notice and act you need to have a shock and a consequence sound bite that people can latch onto. Creating a false fear around people killing themselves because of DIY is obviously alarmist, but at the same time it's an easy and tangible concept for someone who doesn't understand the environment to grasp and to include in their own arguments as a consequence of the lock down. Is it the best shock and consequence sound bite, I don't know.

Reactions: Like 7


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## volcom27101982 (26/5/20)

Hooked said:


> *Vaping body wants to be disassociated from tobacco sector and allowed to operate online during Level 3*
> https://www.iol.co.za/the-star/news...wed-to-operate-online-during-level-3-48477268
> 
> "The vaping industry is demanding to be allowed to sell its products online and for delivery during lockdown level3. They also want to be disassociated from the tobacco sector.
> ...


Its about time someone made this official.

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 1


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## M.Adhir (26/5/20)

kolakidd said:


> Strictly from my POV, I think if you understand how media works then it shouldn't take it to personally. If you want to get people to take notice and act you need to have a shock and a consequence sound bite that people can latch onto. Creating a false fear around people killing themselves because of DIY is obviously alarmist, but at the same time it's an easy and tangible concept for someone who doesn't understand the environment to grasp and to include in their own arguments as a consequence of the lock down. Is it the best shock and consequence sound bite, I don't know.



I hear you. The problem I have is that the lady from VPASA a week or two ago (on a news channel) is the one who said that "brewing at home" is dangerous. So thats not a journo or news presenter putting a spin on it, its the source itself that voiced in the clip.
That then to me makes it look like there is more interest for protecting the supply chain (juicers and vendors) than there is in advocating for vaping being a safer and less harmful alternative to smoking.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 11 | Winner 1


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## CJB85 (26/5/20)

volcom27101982 said:


> Its about time someone made this official.



This exact video was one of the catalysts in making me switch from cigarettes to vaping... this was when I still thought "popcorn lung" was an actual thing!

Reactions: Like 5 | Winner 1 | Funny 3


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## volcom27101982 (26/5/20)

CJB85 said:


> This exact video was one of the catalysts in making me switch from cigarettes to vaping... this was when I still thought "popcorn lung" was an actual thing!


Lol so Im on the right track(following in your footsteps).

Reactions: Like 3


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## vicTor (26/5/20)

M.Adhir said:


> I hear you. The problem is have is that the lady from VPASA a week or two ago (on a news channel) is the one who said that "brewing at home" is dangerous. So thats not a journo or news presenter putting a spin on it, its the source itself that voiced in the clip.
> That then to me makes it look like there is more interest for protecting the supply chain (juicers and vendors) than there is in advocating for vaping being a safer and less harmful alternative to smoking.



nice one, this is exactly what I couldn't put into words, agree 100%

Reactions: Like 5 | Winner 1


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## volcom27101982 (26/5/20)

CJB85 said:


> This exact video was one of the catalysts in making me switch from cigarettes to vaping... this was when I still thought "popcorn lung" was an actual thing!


I dub thee...Sir Caramel Popcorn Balls

Reactions: Funny 8


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## CJB85 (26/5/20)

volcom27101982 said:


> Lol so Im on the right track(following in your footsteps).


Oh no, my footsteps are not the ones to follow in... you would be doing yourself a disservice.

Reactions: Funny 7 | Optimistic 1


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## DysectorZA (26/5/20)

Hooked said:


> *Vaping body wants to be disassociated from tobacco sector and allowed to operate online during Level 3*



It sounds great and all, to have vaping be separate from tobacco, but I have doubts that it would ever happen any time soon unfortunately.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 4


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## volcom27101982 (26/5/20)

DysectorZA said:


> It sounds great and all, to have vaping be separate from tobacco, but I have doubts that it would ever happen any time soon unfortunately.


Unfortunately youre right. They'd rather ban vaping before smoking like they have in India and Brazil. 
It makes no sense unless we start going into conspiracy theory territory. 
Starting to look a whoooooooole lot like they want us to be unhealthy.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Informative 2


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## volcom27101982 (26/5/20)

CJB85 said:


> Oh no, my footsteps are not the ones to follow in... you would be doing yourself a disservice.


Dude...wheres the "youre a spaz" emoji reply? Admins admins little help here. Lol. Ill take your word for it at the moment but still. Youre one up on me

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Martin_tu (2/6/20)

I may be wrong but AFAIK, VPASA is -as was its predecessor;'EASA'- predominantly funded by TWISP, well, them and the very short list of vapers who can afford their three thousand Rand a month membership fee, (yeah really). So given that, one can easily accept and totally understand that they are no friends of the DIY crowd at all. (Remember the days when you had to use the TWISP-produced pods (own liquid) or invalidate their warranty? yeah right.) 

But just so we're all on the same page here, VPASA's own website, (https://vpasa.org.za/) states very clearly, "Vapour Products Association of South Africa (VPASA) represents manufacturers, wholesalers, and retailers of smoke-free vapour products in South Africa." (i.e. NEITHER Vapers, nor Vaping per se.)

As someone else has commented, VPASA's track record leaves a lot to be desired, (and that's being very diplomatic) but then quick Interweb search of Asanda Gcoyi's background reveals her true nature and raison d'etre, 
and 

Gcoyi is merely an opportunist, a bandwagoner of -currently- the Vape scene, and previously the 'black entrepreneur' scene.

I seriously doubt she's either a vaper or has any real in-depth knowledge of the Vape phenomenon, (either here in SA or internationally); Vape 'Science' and fake anti-vape media fact-checking, (a la Dr Farsalinos; CASAA, INNCrg, https://nicotinepolicy.net/ or https://antithrlies.com/

Simply by the fact that vaping is considered -and has been now for some years- 'groundbreaking THR technology' in worldwide health matters, by more accredited scientific and respected academic sources than one can shake a hairy stick at. That fact alone begging the question as to why the -obviously well funded- VPASA crowd hasn't even sought out any local medical or scientific talent to propagate the real, core message, that being quite simply; If you don't want to smoke tobacco any more and you've tried everything else so far, don't quit, switch.

And I don't use an 'E-cigarette', I vaporise -or if you prefer, atomise- a flavoured liquid with nicotine added, its called a Vaporiser, I VAPE. Personally, I'm 100% certain it's saved my life and I don't need to guess if others (non-vapers) want to know more about it, worldwide we're looking at well over forty million vapers already, and over seven thousand new people a week still read my Quora.com answers on the matter, (and I stopped posting there a year ago, LOL.)

Go well fellow vapers, keep the faith.

Martin_tu
INSIV (mf)

Reactions: Like 7


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## Feliks Karp (2/6/20)

Martin_tu said:


> And I don't use an 'E-cigarette', I vaporise -or if you prefer, atomise- a flavoured liquid with nicotine added, its called a Vaporiser, I VAPE. Personally, I'm 100% certain it's saved my life and I don't need to guess if others (non-vapers) want to know more about it, worldwide we're looking at well over forty million vapers already, and over seven thousand new people a week still read my Quora.com answers on the matter, (and I stopped posting there a year ago, LOL.)
> 
> Go well fellow vapers, keep the faith.
> 
> ...



Well I mean, none of us actually vape since its not vapor either it's an aerosol but I guess that sounds scary too. Thanks for the video links, very interesting background to her.

Reactions: Informative 2


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## volcom27101982 (2/6/20)

Martin_tu said:


> Gcoyi is merely an opportunist, a bandwagoner of -currently- the Vape scene, and previously the 'black entrepreneur' scene.


And then at the same time the tobacco industry is trying to weasle its way in (whether it be for the right reasons or not and assuming nicotine isnt the devil - all that extra crap in a cigarette is).

Anyway this is an amazing investigative documentary!

Reactions: Like 2


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## mrh (2/6/20)

I havent read this full thread but I feel that in the South African context (doff about vaping as a whole)one cannot be too hostile towards the Vpasa woman. She has to vocalize about vaping in a certain public context without alienating people unduly (politics!) I see her as an ally - disseminating much needed info about the difference between vaping and smoking - which is crucial to give vapers there untaxed rights in this country.

Reactions: Optimistic 2


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## RenaldoRheeder (3/6/20)

My initial reaction to the DIY statement by the lady from VPASA, was also WTF. But in the bigger picture we have to consider percieved quality and control in the commercial juice industry that can somehow be held accountable vs. the opposite in the DIY community. We as mixers presumably know what we do and take sufficient precautions to keep our mixes safe. However, I spoke with a friend of mine yesterday and was told about the mixing that a colleague of his did. His colleague (a smoker struggling during the ban) bought a China shop vape pen together with vape juice of the same origin. She found the juice to be too weak (there was no indication of nic strength on the bottle) and started hunting for nicotine. She found some from somewhere and proceeded to mix the juice and nic 50/50. Needles to say - she did not find a pleasant result. I know this is probably not an everyday occurance in our game and probably more like the pineapple beer experiment, but still concerning. So in such a situation, it is understandable where the VPASA statement came from. 


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Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 6 | Informative 1 | Useful 1


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## vicTor (3/6/20)

RenaldoRheeder said:


> My initial reaction to the DIY statement by the lady from VPASA, was also WTF. But in the bigger picture we have to consider percieved quality and control in the commercial juice industry that can somehow be held accountable vs. the opposite in the DIY community. We as mixers presumably know what we do and take sufficient precautions to keep our mixes safe. However, I spoke with a friend of mine yesterday and was told about the mixing that a colleague of his did. His colleague (a smoker struggling during the ban) bought a China shop vape pen together with vape juice of the same origin. She found the juice to be too weak (there was no indication of nic strength on the bottle) and started hunting for nicotine. She found some from somewhere and proceeded to mix the juice and nic 50/50. Needles to say - she did not find a pleasant result. I know this is probably not an everyday occurance in our game and probably more like the pineapple beer experiment, but still concerning. So in such a situation, it is understandable where the VPASA statement came from.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



yes I was initially upset as I took the statement out of context, but I have since realized that what they actually mean is exactly as what you have said, vaping right now, does not need an incident where someone mixed something at home and died or landed up in ICU or something, this would be ammunition against us

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 3


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## volcom27101982 (3/6/20)

RenaldoRheeder said:


> Needles to say - she did not find a pleasant result. I know this is probably not an everyday occurance in our game and probably more like the pineapple beer experiment, but still concerning. So in such a situation, it is understandable where the VPASA statement came from.


Now that you mention it...dare I say...Im gonna get some thumbs down for this lol...alcohol should be going through the same struggle. Oh wait...it did...kinda. You get my drift tho. Geese and gander but I suppose you could use the same mentality for everything. 

Ps. When are we getting together for a vape sesh?  Did you hear Candys is open for drive through!

Reactions: Like 3


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## RenaldoRheeder (3/6/20)

volcom27101982 said:


> Now that you mention it...dare I say...Im gonna get some thumbs down for this lol...alcohol should be going through the same struggle. Oh wait...it did...kinda. You get my drift tho. Geese and gander but I suppose you could use the same mentality for everything.
> 
> Ps. When are we getting together for a vape sesh?  Did you hear Candys is open for drive through!



I thought I saw your car there 


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Reactions: Winner 1 | Funny 3


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## volcom27101982 (3/6/20)

RenaldoRheeder said:


> I thought I saw your car there
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Reactions: Funny 2


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## volcom27101982 (3/6/20)

volcom27101982 said:


> Lol so Im on the right track(following in your footsteps).


@M.Adhir and @CJB85 ??????????????(tiny bit of office politics?)
Kiss and make up please.


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## CJB85 (3/6/20)

volcom27101982 said:


> @M.Adhir and @CJB85 ??????????????(tiny bit of office politics?)
> Kiss and make up please.



What am I missing here, office politics??


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## volcom27101982 (3/6/20)

CJB85 said:


> What am I missing here, office politics??
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ummmmmmmmmmm M.Adhir thumbed down my post to me following in your footsteps. So wondered why. No worries Ill dm him lol.


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## CJB85 (3/6/20)

volcom27101982 said:


> Ummmmmmmmmmm M.Adhir thumbed down my post to me following in your footsteps. So wondered why. No worries Ill dm him lol.


Hahaha, @M.Adhir was probably right in thumbing down though... I really am still just a noob. We've met in person and I think he is a good bloke, if he feels otherwise towards me I haven't noticed and he certainly hasn't said anything to me.

Reactions: Like 2


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## volcom27101982 (3/6/20)

CJB85 said:


> Hahaha, @M.Adhir was probably right in thumbing down though... I really am still just a noob. We've met in person and I think he is a good bloke, if he feels otherwise towards me I haven't noticed and he certainly hasn't said anything to me.


Its probs your reason youre right lol. Im still greener than you are tho so Im keen on anyones mentorship. Especially now that I dubbed you a knight.

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## CJB85 (3/6/20)

volcom27101982 said:


> Its probs your reason youre right lol. Im still greener than you are tho so Im keen on anyones mentorship. Especially now that I dubbed you a knight.


Sir Popcorn Balls approves!
Look, the only advice I can honestly give is to get as much info from as many people as you can before making a decision. Vaping is extremely subjective and what works for one person may be terrible for another. You will eventually find out who the gurus are in the things that suit your style of vaping.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 2


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## M.Adhir (3/6/20)

volcom27101982 said:


> Ummmmmmmmmmm M.Adhir thumbed down my post to me following in your footsteps. So wondered why. No worries Ill dm him lol.



My bad. That was an unintentional thumbdown. 
I actually had to go back and figure out where it happened lol. 

*Sent from my slim smart phone, using my fat stupid fingers

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Room Fogger (3/6/20)

I 100% do not agree with her statement regarding DIY, but put it down to a maybe a true lack of knowledge of the “art”, a poor choice of words, not necessarily because of knowledge but also may be related to time. Whenever we say something and express ourselves it can be, or intentionally will be or may be taken out of context by someone, and sometimes twisted to suit another agenda. But at least they are trying to get the two nicotine delivery methods separated, so kudos to them.

Most, or a lot of juice manufacturers started out as diy enthusiasts and were good enough to actually commercially sell their creations, and make a business out of it, and you can only mix so much from your couch so this is where a certified mixing lab comes in, bulk but also better control over environmental factors and hygiene on a industrial scale. Same applies to home baking vs commercial baking, my kitchen is not big enough for that well known rusk brand, but it started in a house kitchen. And every diyer will always endeavor to make the best quality and “clean” juice possible even though they don’t have a lab, you vape it yourself don’t you. Again, as with the ban, unintended consequences come to play, cheap clones are flooding in and the uninformed take that to be the real McCoy, because it is in a nice bottle and box with a label that doesn’t tell you anything, and not in a Westpack bottle with a handwritten label. Again, insufficient knowledge and acceptance on face value.

Now if she was to change that statement to say that a lot of desperate smokers are now buying fake or cloned liquids from dodgy sources where there is no control over the content and quality, same as some illegal cigarette brands, or concocting a liquid that contains nicotine without having any base knowledge of how to mix safe, and then vaping it, does that not change the whole message? As you can see I omitted calling it e-liquid or juice. In desperate times people will resort to desperate measures, pineapple beer anyone, and if they don’t have all of the info or assistance or guidance bad things can happen, like using a chainsaw instead of a butter knife, someone is going to get hurt. 

I however agree that vaping and smoking should be separate, the only thing it has in common is nicotine, it’s as far apart as aviation and commercial fishing, but both use petroleum as part of the process.

Maybe a member of VPASA can bring this to their attention, and they can change the message they convey, or we may sit with another unintended consequence at the end of this.

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 3


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## volcom27101982 (3/6/20)

M.Adhir said:


> My bad. That was an unintentional thumbdown.
> I actually had to go back and figure out where it happened lol.
> 
> *Sent from my slim smart phone, using my fat stupid fingers


Take it easy with those fingers bro lol.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## volcom27101982 (3/6/20)

Room Fogger said:


> I 100% do not agree with her statement regarding DIY, but put it down to a maybe a true lack of knowledge of the “art”, a poor choice of words, not necessarily because of knowledge but also may be related to time. Whenever we say something and express ourselves it can be, or intentionally will be or may be taken out of context by someone, and sometimes twisted to suit another agenda. But at least they are trying to get the two nicotine delivery methods separated, so kudos to them.
> 
> Most, or a lot of juice manufacturers started out as diy enthusiasts and were good enough to actually commercially sell their creations, and make a business out of it, and you can only mix so much from your couch so this is where a certified mixing lab comes in, bulk but also better control over environmental factors and hygiene on a industrial scale. Same applies to home baking vs commercial baking, my kitchen is not big enough for that well known rusk brand, but it started in a house kitchen. And every diyer will always endeavor to make the best quality and “clean” juice possible even though they don’t have a lab, you vape it yourself don’t you. Again, as with the ban, unintended consequences come to play, cheap clones are flooding in and the uninformed take that to be the real McCoy, because it is in a nice bottle and box with a label that doesn’t tell you anything, and not in a Westpack bottle with a handwritten label. Again, insufficient knowledge and acceptance on face value.
> 
> ...


Wow Im gonna bookmark this and use it if the topic ever comes up. Very well explained!

Reactions: Like 1 | Thanks 1


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## M.Adhir (3/6/20)

CJB85 said:


> Hahaha, @M.Adhir was probably right in thumbing down though... I really am still just a noob. We've met in person and I think he is a good bloke, if he feels otherwise towards me I haven't noticed and he certainly hasn't said anything to me.



Lol no hard feelings bud.
Was just a finger slip while scrolling. 
We can discuss over a beer. 
After we place a fastetech or 3f order again lol.

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 1


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## CJB85 (3/6/20)

M.Adhir said:


> Lol no hard feelings bud.
> Was just a finger slip while scrolling.
> We can discuss over a beer.
> After we place a fastetech or 3f order again lol.


Haha, next time I will be a participant, but not the foreman... way to stressful waiting for $750 worth of stuff that other people paid for!

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1 | Can relate 2


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