# Moral Dilemma



## Robert Howes (3/3/16)

As most vapers are ex-smokers we will all remember when we started smoking, personally I started at 13 and was a full time smoker by 14. I have a 16 year old son who was so anti smoking when I smoked but now he is taking up the habit himself. After all these years and so much education it is still cool to go against authority and light up a stinking cigarette  

We have tried punishment, we have tried positive reinforcement we have tried all sorts to deter the habit but boys will be boys and at this age they know better than anyone.

Now the moral Dilemma. He is under 18 so it is illegal but do I invest in a vape kit and 0mg Nic juice for him. Logic would tell me that that is the better than him sneaking around smoking analogues. BUT! is it good parenting??? So many pros and so many cons.

What would you do in this situation?

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## Rob Fisher (3/3/16)

There is no question. Buy him his own vape kit!

Reactions: Agree 13


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## Stevape;) (3/3/16)

IMO Rather the Evil you know than the Evil you dont. I would say get him a kit with the 0mg Juices but not a nice tasting juice. As long as it tastes a bit better than a stinky.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## rogue zombie (3/3/16)

I would agree on buying a vape kit.

As us parents know, kids will do what they going to do, sometimes whether we like it or not. Id rather they do the lesser harmful.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 5


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## PeterHarris (3/3/16)

i would buy him a vape kit. and then also if he still wants to smoke, i would give him a weekly allowance to buy his own.
why do i say such a thing?
1 - he will soon realize that smoking is expensive
2 - smoking is not fun when your parents know about it so he might just get over the whole cool thing.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Harmlessguy (3/3/16)

I would say let him try vaping with your vape and see if he likes it. My parents tried to stop me from smoking when I was 16,but hey as you said at that age you know everything. It was only January this year when I realized that my fingers are yellow,teeth stained and clothes smelled horrible.

So buy him a vape kit, but not the most expensive one because we all know high school and parties can get hectic.

You are a good father by helping him.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 5


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## Stosta (3/3/16)

Wow that is a tricky one. I'm sorry to hear you got put in this spot. I did the same thing as a kid, and to this day I have no idea why my parents didn't just make my life miserable. They maintain that I was a little shit (excuse the language), and I would have gone off the rails had they pushed any harder.

At that age it was about being cool, so not sure if vaping is as cool as smoking to kids this age, and therefore would a 0mg vape otion eliminate this need?

In my opinion (no judgement or anything like that) I would stick to the traditional method of bringing all hell down on him if you catch him smoking. Should you give him a kit you're encouraging the behaviour (even though I understand you are in no way wanting to). Furthermore it would add fuel to the fires of anti-vaping activists, for them it would be a case-in-point.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 2


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## PeterHarris (3/3/16)

also i understand why most of you say 0nic - i would buy him 3mg nic - becuase he is at that stage where he sort of wants the REAL THING. so let him get his fix of nic.
i might even consider getting him 12mg - so that he can get a quick fix ... but thats just me

maybe i will be a bad parent....

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## Ezekiel (3/3/16)

Arent you worried about being 'those parents'? I mean, if he gets caught with the vape - even if it is 0 mg - he will say that it is ok, his parents bought it for him. Then youll get a host of exasperated teachers and parents shouting bloody murder and how you could endorse smoking? (I know... but try explaining then that it is not. In their eyes they might see it as you buying your kid smokes or, for that manner, the weed!). The same thing will happen when he shows it to his friends - they will want one too, possibly, and might run to you or their own parents - which might just cause more issues.

I have absolutely no parenting experience, so cant really comment to a right choice of actions. But like all foolish people, will do so anyway... my apologies! 

What about waiting it out - reprimand him when caught smoking, go on and on about the evils and dangers of smoking, and then when he turns 18, give him a kit and chat to him seriously about changing his habit - man to man. That way he can rebel all he wants, which he'll anyway do kit or no kit, but then when he is a bit older you can turn it into something a bit more constructive

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## Neal (3/3/16)

Can relate here brother. As a smoker my son was brought up with my (bad) habit and started on the fags himself. He is now 25 and when I was around 6 months into my vape journey I bought him a Sub box Mini and he has been off the fags for more than a year. Your call regarding your son, but if he is going to smoke regardless of your advice, vaping has to the better option. Good luck mate.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Krohlm (3/3/16)

Consider giving him a budget and make it seem like it's his choice. You'll give him free vape juice which has nicotine in it (it doesn't but what he doesn't know...) that he can smoke in the house etc and give him 200 rand a month for stinkies.

A Box of stinkies is hovering around the 40 rand mark at the moment so it's enough for 5 boxes. Which we all know is totally insufficient.

Try make it his choice.. This will mean he will vape more and smoke less.

Forcing him to be a social smoker and use vaping the rest of the time will just make it simpler to change to vaping full time.

Be sure to ask sir vape or one of the more understanding vendors if they can just swap the labels to help the nicotine illusion.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## Andre (3/3/16)

I totally agree with what the others said above. There is just no way you will be able to stop him from smoking. We all know that, we were there. And if he is already addicted, I agree with @PeterHarris above - get him a nic fix as well. Nicotine is in the same class as caffeine - that has now been established without any doubt. 
Get him the whole shebang - rebuildable toppers, wire, wick, etc - make it a hobby to keep him busy. At that age I am sure he will want to blow clouds galore.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 7


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## rogue zombie (3/3/16)

Ezekiel said:


> Arent you worried about being 'those parents'? I mean, if he gets caught with the vape - even if it is 0 mg - he will say that it is ok, his parents bought it for him.



Yes... but parenting as you may discover, is like trying to navigate a truck through a mine-field with no brakes, and blindfolded 

Look I give others rational advice, but if I catch my now 8 year-old girl, I am going to flip monumentally. I think they'll hear me shouting for a week from Cape Town!

But I also know, when I was a teenage boy - being the way I was - my parents didn't have a chance of stopping me from doing what I was going to do.

Reactions: Agree 4 | Can relate 1


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## shaunnadan (3/3/16)

hmmmm... this is a difficult one

so my mum caught me smoking when i was in school, lost her mind! brought down all manners of hell and i still walk with a bit of a limp, lol my mum is a school teacher so she knows all of the tricks that i was getting up to. i vowed that from that day "i would never get caught!"

a big part of any community will SHOUT to get him off stinkies. we all have been down that road and know the coolness factor goes away and then the serious problems follow.

to get him a vape is your decision as a parent and i agree with the idea that its better than him hiding and smoking. 0mg juices will help to prevent a any nic dependency. i think at his age its a bit difficult in him wanting to show off his new shiny gear to friends and that can cause some serious problems for you with other parents, teachers, etc. telling him its for only home use will be as useful as telling a kid to keep his cellphone at home and not to take it to school (i carried a brick phone in primary school)

i think you need to have a real heart to heart with him.

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## Salamander (3/3/16)

I would also get him a vape kit. As far as the legal side goes, smoking is also illegal for under 18s so for me there is no issue there. I believe that it would be irresponsible not to offer him a healthier alternative. As we all know teenagers are going to do exactly what they like and there is nothing you can do short of keeping him locked up in his room 24/7.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## blujeenz (3/3/16)

Robert Howes said:


> As most vapers are ex-smokers we will all remember when we started smoking, personally I started at 13 and was a full time smoker by 14. I have a 16 year old son who was so anti smoking when I smoked but now he is taking up the habit himself. After all these years and so much education it is still cool to go against authority and light up a stinking cigarette
> 
> We have tried punishment, we have tried positive reinforcement we have tried all sorts to deter the habit but boys will be boys and at this age they know better than anyone.
> 
> ...


I would go for 3mg nic, in a iJust 2 or Kanger subvod device, he'll get a head buzz off chaining a few vapes, but you wont fool him with a 0mg placebo. Inform him of the 0 and 6 or higher nic options.
You dont want him quiting vaping and reverting to cigs because vapeing wasnt all that dad said it was.
Might want to slip in the fact that Big Tobacco is behind all the negative press regards vaping, youngsters also love a good conspiracy. 
Parenting is mostly about guiding your kids using love and wisdom for a better/healthier/safer life, using the stick, both figuratively and literally usually results in them resenting you in their later years.
Seems to me that you're on the right track as a parent, those under 18 laws were right for cigarettes, but vaping is a different kettle of fish altogether.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## stevie g (3/3/16)

Get him a vape kit and some 1.5mg juice. He was smoking anyway so why not just let him vape something a bit more satisfying. If you follow the latest scientific literature then you know that Nicotine is similar to coffee in effect, hardly the dependancy creating drug it is thought to be.

People smoke because they think it is a "Reward" pure and simple. Others say that nicotine withdrawal is a real thing which I disagree with. A smoker goes to sleep every night and does not have nicotine withdrawal symptons.

Years of Propaganda in the media have led people to falsely believe that smoking is a pleasure and that is the sensation people think they are chasing when they smoke.

My buddy has a 17 year old boy and just went through the same thing. He would rather the kid vapes than smokes so he got him the Ijust 2 and some 0mg juice. Told him to hide it from his mother though...

Reactions: Like 1


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## Effjh (3/3/16)

I wish somebody gave me a vape kit 15 years ago. "Future healthy him" will thank you.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## wiesbang (3/3/16)

I spoke to someone about this a while ago. I was also very anti smoking when my folks smoked but also started at a young age and nothing they did made me stop.
I also thought having the kids on vape is much safer than smoking but because of all the negativity vaping has and is getting we don't want put even more light on it.
If I had kids i would much rather have them vape than smoke though


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## mAlice (3/3/16)

Hi,

I think it would also help hearing the opinion of a "child"

I started smoking at 14, and I am now a month away from 22. Smoking for 7 years certainly doesn't bring all the negative side affects of a 10/20/30/x year smoker. But I have had enough of the constant wheezing, coughing, perpetual heartburn, excessive snoring and whatever else goes paired with smoking.

Growing up, my grandfather was a smoker. 40 a day Lexington plains. He was a truck driver, and I think part of the old generation where smoking was still endorsed to a level. This is probably the main reason my dad didn't become a full time smoker. My dad used to smoke casually when he was younger, but never around me. Me not know the horror of growing up in an environment where someone like a parent was smoking next to me constantly, I think I got the idea that: "yes its bad, but it cant be that bad...".

My dad only caught me once. He saw a pack of smokes in my cubby hole when he moved my car from the driveway to the lawn. He absolutely ******* lost it! He never caught me with a cig in my hand, and never said anything about the smell (I have no doubt that he smelled the smoke, I just think he didn't want to say anything). But I think there was a certain amount of excitement connected to the taboo. If my dad knew and accepted it, I don't think I would have even picked up the habit. But it was drilled into me from a young age that he does not take lightly on this matter specifically. I don't have the best relationship with my dad either, kind of distant. I would love to be close with my dad. But he is convinced that its his way, or his way. There will never be a highway. Me having the amount of respect I have for my dad, I won't want to go against his will. But unfortunately, the smoking was one thing that I could sneakily do. It felt empowering, and also focused me. I felt like a smoke helps me collect my thoughts. My most enjoyable cigarette were the ones that I had all by my lonesome. I also have ADD, I think that is one of the reasons why I enjoyed smoking on my own. Just taking a break, letting your mind reboot.

My advise, from a son that hopes his father never sees this. Please give your son/daughter the love they need. This isn't necessarily a cry for help, but too many rules and restrictions could drive them to do something that makes them feel in control. Even if it is a self-destructive doing. You need to have a chat with him, make sure throughout that he knows you love him, and that you would rather have him not smoke at all.

HAVING SAID THAT: I think the lesser of 2 evils would have been my approach - get him the kit and some juice. Although I am not a parent (not that I know of ), and you shouldn't make a decision based on what you read in my post .

Reactions: Like 5 | Winner 2


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## Vapington (3/3/16)

That is a tough one! At the end of the day wouldn't you rather him vape with you than sneak around smoking cigs? It could also give you guys a common hobby to enjoy together in future

Reactions: Agree 1


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## kimbo (3/3/16)

@Robert Howes if you decide to go the buy a mod road, treat it as a hobby you and your son can enjoy together. So many parent drift away from the kids. Strongs mate, i am glad i am not in your shoes

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## Stevape;) (3/3/16)

I just have to say... this is what being part of this Forum/community/family is all about

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## Phillip868 (3/3/16)

Just my 2cents, If I knew 16 years ago what I know now, things would be much different. I started smoking in my early teens, and kind of only did it to fit in. Find out what his motivation is for starting smoking in a calm casual conversation and keep it that way, then decide what to do next.
My daughter is 8 and my boy 6, both of them are so intrigued by vaping gear and coil building, juice mixing and daddy blowing clouds into the rays of sunshine shining through the patio window, that they often help me and the ideas from their HUGE imaginations are sometimes funny. At that age they have a firm grasp of ohms law, (Will be helpfull in Highschool Physics) and % in a volume of liquid ( yip, Chemistry) as well as where rain comes from, ( okay, I might have told them that I vape to make clouds cause its dry here in the dessert).
BUT, explain to kids that it is not acceptable in public and that it would be cool with you if the two of you make it a hobby instead of doing it behind your back and that smokes taste k@k after a couple drags off a vape anyway. 
What ever you decide try to make it appealing to quit smokes rather than scolding, fighting and losing your monkeys over it. 
If he can go without smokes for a week on end, he is not addicted yet, get him 1.5 - 3mg juice, if HE loses his monkeys after a couple hours/days of not smoking, rather go a bit higher in Nic. Let him choose a device and juice, make it fun, maybe he quits after a month in which case there is always a classifieds section here to recover costs, maybe he decides to stay with it, 2 years untill he is 18 may sound like a long time, it isn't. 
Both my kids regularly scold smokers and tell them to vape, you know the saying about "from the mouths of babes"..... It may also be a great bonding experience for the two of you.

On the other hand, if he is smoking in rebellion or to deliberately p*** you off, gets a tattoo of a cig, and blows smoke in your face, then lock him in his room for a week without smokes, food or water, the bugger will soon learn.

(Kidding on the last part,......or am I???)

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## BigB (3/3/16)

I have a few Mom's and Dad's who have bought their kids a kit to get them away from cigarettes as well as their hubbly. 0mg juice too. Kids seemed happy, just so long as the juice made a BIG cloud. Loads of bragging and then they simply stopped, lost interest, no chemical addiction to fight.

So, in my opinion, I vote get the mod and the 0mg....

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Kuhlkatz (3/3/16)

I fully agree with the general sentiment here, and I honestly would not know how I'd react. This 'moral dilemma' stuff was not discussed in depth in Parenting 101 or Parenting for Dummies. If I was in your shoes, I'd probably crap myself, and crap my kid out for being so stupid. All this while fully knowing it's just a repeat of my rebellious/adventurous younger self. My mom and dad both smoked, so why couldn't I ?
Teenagers are going to experiment with cigs, booze and sex at some stage and there is absolutely nothing we can do to stop them. We can just hope that the values we teach them will guide them in their lives, and that they take some precautions to mitigate the risks if they do experiment.
For the rest, you can only be supportive and try and wean them off of their 'addictions', and this is likely one you can help to squash quite easily. Most of us vape as harm-reduction vs smoking, so why on earth would you allow your son to smoke when you know what the end result could be or would likely be ?

I'd say have a heart-to-heart and get a feel for the amount of cigs a day. Based on that, decide if you think that 0 nic or 3 / 6 / 12 may be required.
Make your dilemma clear to him, so that he understands where you stand, and why you want to help him get off the stinkies. Even if he is 'allowed' to vape, it's not acceptable for him to flash his gear around, just like he would not flash the stinkies around in every conversation.

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## Waine (3/3/16)

I am a parent of 2, and this is my take. Tell him it’s OK to smoke in front of you but only when he is working and he can afford to buy his own cigarettes. Until then tell him that you don't want to see him smoking in front of you. It is your house and you can call the shots. It’s tough love but the way to go -- I think. If you buy him a vaping kit with 0mg nicotine, he will not be satisfied. If you buy him a vaping kit with nicotine, you will be fuelling his habit. (Which he cannot afford) It is a catch 22. If you give in now, the next thing it will be alcohol or even MJ.

Its a tough one and you have my empathy.


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## Effjh (3/3/16)

In the end of the day it's all about being "cool" as a teenager. I smoked because it was rock 'n roll AF and you think you are bulletproof at that age. If vaping was a thing back then, I would have found the vape tricks side of it quite appealing. Maybe show him some youtube vids, for tricks you are better off on 0mg nic high VG juice anyway. He will have his fun and grow out of it eventually. Might get expensive though, but the reality is it will save his life down the line.


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## kimbo (3/3/16)

Me and my girlfriend lived together in DBN in her sister use to come visit from hostel, she always said she wanted to have a big party for her 18th and get drunk "it must be so cool"

So when her 18th birthday party came we got her shit drunk, falling, being sick the whole she-bang. We stayed sober to keep an eye on her. So the next morning sitting there with one hell of a barbie we told her THAT is what over doing it is all about, have a drink or two but remember what it feels like to be cool

Maybe you should get so 18mg pop that in a dripper and let the boy blow clouds

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## wiesbang (3/3/16)

Phillip868 said:


> Just my 2cents, If I knew 16 years ago what I know now, things would be much different. I started smoking in my early teens, and kind of only did it to fit in. Find out what his motivation is for starting smoking in a calm casual conversation and keep it that way, then decide what to do next.
> My daughter is 8 and my boy 6, both of them are so intrigued by vaping gear and coil building, juice mixing and daddy blowing clouds into the rays of sunshine shining through the patio window, that they often help me and the ideas from their HUGE imaginations are sometimes funny. At that age they have a firm grasp of ohms law, (Will be helpfull in Highschool Physics) and % in a volume of liquid ( yip, Chemistry) as well as where rain comes from, ( okay, I might have told them that I vape to make clouds cause its dry here in the dessert).
> BUT, explain to kids that it is not acceptable in public and that it would be cool with you if the two of you make it a hobby instead of doing it behind your back and that smokes taste k@k after a couple drags off a vape anyway.
> What ever you decide try to make it appealing to quit smokes rather than scolding, fighting and losing your monkeys over it.
> ...


I went to a fellow forum members place the other day and his son gave him a plastic bag and told him to blow into the bag and close it. He was so excited to have a bag filled with vapor. Was so cute!

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## Robert Howes (4/3/16)

Thanks for all the great heart felt advice and taking the time to share your experiences and points of view, it certainly made me think back to my youth when I was so rebellious. Just some further background info that maybe I should of included in the first post.

This dabbling in smoking has been on going for 2 years and has gone from experimentation to an addiction. He is a keen sports person and we train at the boxing gym 3 times a week, often double sessions. He is also a keen rugby player and after a years worth of hard fitness training he has just managed to become the youngest member of the high schools first team. Being an all knowing nearly 16 year old he doesn't feel the negatives of smoking yet so doesn't see the immediate problem although he is sensible enough to know that it will eventually catch up with him. He has gone cold turkey a couple of times but I catch him out a few weeks later. The addiction is hard to beat and having a group of friends of which many smoke makes it harder because of the peer lets be cool pressure.

Anyway that is more of a back ground, the moral dilemma I was battling with was do I carry on banging my head against a brick wall or do I try something less orthodox like letting him vape as an alternative, knowing full well it carries a minimum age limit of 18 (just like smoking). More to the point smoking has a minimum age limit and he does not have my consent or blessing to continue with it. How then can I give my consent and blessing for vaping that carries the same age restriction. 

Anyway I had a good chat to him last night and he is keen to try vaping (not that he hasn't had a few stolen vapes in the past) as an alternative and as an attempt to stop the stinking analogues. To hell with the law, in my eyes his long term health is more important and if vaping will get him of the stinking fags then vaping it will be. He isn't interested in blowing big clouds or building coils he wants a healthier alternative.

First thoughts are:
Evic VTC mini with a Cubis tank purely because it is about the easiest set up to use and maintain and as i use a Cubis coils are always readily on hand.

The more difficult decision is juice. Initially I was thinking 12mg for a month or 2 to help him kick the habit then slowly bring him down to 0. Flavors I was thinking sweet dessert type juice. If he gets used to something sweet, then if he does sneak in a stinky it will taste like kak and he will be less inclined the next time. 

Thank you all once again for your contribution so far.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Winner 6


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## rogue zombie (4/3/16)

Thankfully smoking is way less "cool" than in our days.

I'm sure some girl somewhere down the line will tell him his breathe or he stinks. So if the vaping thing doesn't take off right away, I'm sure he may be lead there on his own.



I do agree with maybe starting on 12mg. I know I really needed that throat-hit for awhile. If thats missing in the beginning, it may put him off.

When I started vaping, variation was key with ejuices. And I also, like many others, needed a good RY4.


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## Lord Vetinari (4/3/16)

Robert Howes said:


> As most vapers are ex-smokers we will all remember when we started smoking, personally I started at 13 and was a full time smoker by 14. I have a 16 year old son who was so anti smoking when I smoked but now he is taking up the habit himself. After all these years and so much education it is still cool to go against authority and light up a stinking cigarette
> 
> We have tried punishment, we have tried positive reinforcement we have tried all sorts to deter the habit but boys will be boys and at this age they know better than anyone.
> 
> ...


He is going to do whatever he wants. Get him a GOOD hobby kit. Make him build coils. You will save him so many medical expenses, save on life insurance etc. Plus he will be the coolest cat in his circle.

Yes. Use vaping to swing this to the positive. Dont exclude him though share a tank of something in 3mg every now and then. Hes got to know that is better than getting nic from a smoke.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Lord Vetinari (4/3/16)

Robert Howes said:


> Thanks for all the great heart felt advice and taking the time to share your experiences and points of view, it certainly made me think back to my youth when I was so rebellious. Just some further background info that maybe I should of included in the first post.
> 
> This dabbling in smoking has been on going for 2 years and has gone from experimentation to an addiction. He is a keen sports person and we train at the boxing gym 3 times a week, often double sessions. He is also a keen rugby player and after a years worth of hard fitness training he has just managed to become the youngest member of the high schools first team. Being an all knowing nearly 16 year old he doesn't feel the negatives of smoking yet so doesn't see the immediate problem although he is sensible enough to know that it will eventually catch up with him. He has gone cold turkey a couple of times but I catch him out a few weeks later. The addiction is hard to beat and having a group of friends of which many smoke makes it harder because of the peer lets be cool pressure.
> 
> ...


Standing Ovation! Wish my dad had this option. But stick to max 6mg. It is pretty strong to me when sub ohming. Totally adequate I was a 30 a day smoker.


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## Kuhlkatz (4/3/16)

I think I'd do exactly the same in your position. I know of parents that have bought their kids Twisp kits, but don't think the success rate was good. Decent kit and a high enough nic content is definitely the way to go, so I'd second that VTC Mini and Cubis. Reduce the nic once the stinky dependency is broken, just like most of us do.

Get him fruity flavours - I've seen in all the anti-vaping lobbying articles that flavours like this is aimed specifically at kids.


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## Robert Howes (4/3/16)

2 years ago when I started this journey I had to use 24mg to get my nic fix. 2 years in I am down to 6mg and my next ADV order will be 3mg.

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## Andre (4/3/16)

Robert Howes said:


> Thanks for all the great heart felt advice and taking the time to share your experiences and points of view, it certainly made me think back to my youth when I was so rebellious. Just some further background info that maybe I should of included in the first post.
> 
> This dabbling in smoking has been on going for 2 years and has gone from experimentation to an addiction. He is a keen sports person and we train at the boxing gym 3 times a week, often double sessions. He is also a keen rugby player and after a years worth of hard fitness training he has just managed to become the youngest member of the high schools first team. Being an all knowing nearly 16 year old he doesn't feel the negatives of smoking yet so doesn't see the immediate problem although he is sensible enough to know that it will eventually catch up with him. He has gone cold turkey a couple of times but I catch him out a few weeks later. The addiction is hard to beat and having a group of friends of which many smoke makes it harder because of the peer lets be cool pressure.
> 
> ...


Great stuff. I agree with @Lord Vetinari that a rebuildable would be great for him - not only save you Cubis coil heads, but also keep him busy. And he shall want to blow clouds I am sure.

BTW, there is no law that I am aware of that makes it illegal to vape if you are younger than 18 years. Boils down to self regulation at this stage.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Waine (4/3/16)

Andre said:


> Great stuff. I agree with @Lord Vetinari that a rebuildable would be great for him - not only save you Cubis coil heads, but also keep him busy. And he shall want to blow clouds I am sure.
> 
> BTW, there is no law that I am aware of that makes it illegal to vape if you are younger than 18 years. Boils down to self regulation at this stage.


It is not "illegal" to smoke or vape under 18, par sè. It is illegal for vendors to sell tobacco or vape juice to under 18s.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk


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## argief (4/3/16)

mAlice said:


> Hi,
> 
> I think it would also help hearing the opinion of a "child"
> 
> ...


I got a lump in my throught reading this. My story is similar. Started at 14, but smoked for 14 years, I will be 33 next week. 

I like this response best of all. I have recently become a parent (18months) so I won't pretend to know a lot. But I think you need to sit back and evaluate the entire situation. Parenting imo is about periodic intervention to attain a strategic goal of what you envision for your child. This is one of those critical intervention points which needs to be considered against the backdrop of where you are now and how you can use this to leverage your influence. 

My father passed 6 years ago this April. I had a similar "distant" relationship with my father and I am certain that my choice to smoke against his very vocal disapproval, the sneaking around behind his back, the endless game where he tried to catch me and I tried to out smart him in the end just drove us further apart. 

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

Reactions: Like 1 | Can relate 1


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## Andre (4/3/16)

Waine said:


> It is not "illegal" to smoke or vape under 18, par sè. It is illegal for vendors to sell tobacco or vape juice to under 18s.
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk


Nope, no laws for vaping yet as far as I know.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## mAlice (4/3/16)

argief said:


> I got a lump in my throught reading this. My story is similar. Started at 14, but smoked for 14 years, I will be 33 next week.
> 
> I like this response best of all. I have recently become a parent (18months) so I won't pretend to know a lot. But I think you need to sit back and evaluate the entire situation. Parenting imo is about periodic intervention to attain a strategic goal of what you envision for your child. This is one of those critical intervention points which needs to be considered against the backdrop of where you are now and how you can use this to leverage your influence.
> 
> ...



I am very sorry for your loss. I dread the day I have to carry the casket of my father. It's tough... He has done everything in his power to further my education and really give me a head start in life. From what I have seen it is hard for him to let go and let me live my own life. I really want to fix things with him, but if he carries on like this... I don't know. @Robert Howes Your son is extremely lucky to have a dad he can talk to. I can't even speak to mine because every discussion turns into a lecture on how he has "made these mistakes before", and I should listen to him because apparently I don't know what I want. 

Good luck with your new family member @argief !


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## WHeunis (4/3/16)

I am not a parent.
I will NEVER be a parent.

But I do remember having a parent...

What follows are *my opinions*. At own risk and all that...



Spoiler



We all lie to ourselves a hell of a lot when it comes to these things. Kids and their indulgence in what "we" perceive as adult pleasures...
Alcohol, sex, drugs, smoking, etc.

If you seriously think you started smoking to "be cool" or "stick it to authority", you are either flat-out delusional, or you are remembering it wrong.
There was only ever one of two reasons why kids do these things.

1) The curiosity origin.
You have a smoking parent/guardian, and you wonder what the fuss is. You steal/borrow/obtain some of your own and try it.
You get hooked, and done.

2) Peer pressure (fitting in)
Your (possibly best-) friend is from category one, and you don't want to be different. The development of conformity to our inner circle is vital to the formation and maintenance of societal cohesion. We are instinctively wired to conform. Don't stand out. Go with the herd.
Do what your friend does, so he stays your friend.
Then you're hooked anyway, so now you're a smoker and that's that.


99% of us, are from category 2. Yeah it sucks. We are at the bottom of the barrel as a weak-willed person, with a complete lack of strength in character.
Get over it. We were a kids. At least rest with the fact that you did eventually break into your own, and started making your own decisions (eventually).

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Now, IF your kid is indeed from category 1: you could offer him a vape kit. Maybe he thinks its cool and awesome and uses it. Those kids are usually also the alphas of their group, and if they start doing a thing, you can be sure that the rest of the group is VERY likely to follow suit.
Alternatively, it can cause a beta in the group to get them shamed/shunned/etc and ejected.
We are animals, and nowhere will you see this as clearly as when you examine teenage relationships.
Anyway, buy him the kit. Make it an affordable one... He may or may not use it, and may use it a little, and then dump it as pressure from the betas start to mount.

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If your kid is from the majority category 2: nothing you can do. If his group doesn't do it, he won't do it. If his group does it, then he will do it.
Sadly, the only way forward here that i can even begin to imagine, is to SOMEHOW reach the entire group all at once. Maybe allow a party at your house? Maybe inject yourself into some conversations without coming off as "just another preachy old man"?



Bottom-line, its going to be near impossible to convince a kid of anything at this stage in their lives.
I'm not saying you should do nothing. THAT is the definition of bad parenting.
I am however saying that you REALLY need to evaluate your child's social circle and establish his place in it before you act.
The last thing you want is to turn your child into a social outcast that hates you for it...

But at least, yes I do think vape is the better option if you can pull it off.
Would you rather your daughter/son get pregnant/diseased, or convince her/him to carry some condoms around?
Same things apply to smoking.
We have alternatives now. It would be silly (imo) to not try...

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Kamiel (4/3/16)

Robert Howes said:


> As most vapers are ex-smokers we will all remember when we started smoking, personally I started at 13 and was a full time smoker by 14. I have a 16 year old son who was so anti smoking when I smoked but now he is taking up the habit himself. After all these years and so much education it is still cool to go against authority and light up a stinking cigarette
> 
> We have tried punishment, we have tried positive reinforcement we have tried all sorts to deter the habit but boys will be boys and at this age they know better than anyone.
> 
> ...


If he's smoking anyway, I think buying him an ijust2 is *good* parenting. It's giving your kid a way to act upon the same rebelious/cool impulse but you're lessening the risk to his health at the same time. Of course peer pressure is a factor and the hip kids think smoking is cool and vaping isn't. But at the end of the day, you can't say you didn't try to find a middle ground. I applaud that kind of parenting.

It's awesome that kids these days will grow up in a world where there is a viable alternative to tobacco. I think in a few years, provided the anti-vaping media agenda is exposed for the sham that it is, stinkies will have all but disappeared from the shelves.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Rob Fisher (5/3/16)

Evic Mini, target tank and 6mg. Chat to you about it just now!


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## NewOobY (5/3/16)

Stosta said:


> Wow that is a tricky one. I'm sorry to hear you got put in this spot. I did the same thing as a kid, and to this day I have no idea why my parents didn't just make my life miserable. They maintain that I was a little shit (excuse the language), and I would have gone off the rails had they pushed any harder.
> 
> At that age it was about being cool, so not sure if vaping is as cool as smoking to kids this age, and therefore would a 0mg vape otion eliminate this need?
> 
> In my opinion (no judgement or anything like that) I would stick to the traditional method of bringing all hell down on him if you catch him smoking. Should you give him a kit you're encouraging the behaviour (even though I understand you are in no way wanting to). Furthermore it would add fuel to the fires of anti-vaping activists, for them it would be a case-in-point.



I'm going to go with @Stosta here and @Ezekiel to be honest <-- We stand together brothers, we don't conform . 
In my opinion smoking is bad and so is vaping - no matter how much better vaping is, the fact is that it is still bad. If he is smoking now it is not a passing habit that will pass, it is now an addiction more than just doing it for the sake of being cool. I wouldn't condone either - I would have a firm chat with him, get him a kit and say I don't want to see you doing it - we have to admit it is definitely the lessor of the two evils. 

Now, ways that could get him to stop entirely are the following:
1) If he takes up a sport seriously, like rugby, cricket, a contact sport like Karate/Muay Thai/MMA - basically a sport that requires you being extremely physically active - reason is obvious
2) Then another big one, if he meets a girl that doesn't smoke - reason also obvious
3) If you catch him smoking/vaping punish him like no allowance for the week or something like that

This is just my 2c, I too do not have kids - but I have a younger brother (brother-in-law) and we (wife and i) have have to play mom+dad for the past 4 years. To much of a long story to explain this, but yes we have been supporting him etc. He is at the age were smoking is not a problem, but rather more nasty things - he is 21 now and in varsity.

Reactions: Like 1


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