# I don't get it? HE gear.



## Jean claude Vaaldamme (8/1/19)

Ok this has nothing to do with attys, some of the HE gear I can understand.
As for HE mods I can also understand, seen a few nice looking ones, can understand gold inlays, exensive chipsets etc. Still dont know who decided stabilized wood is classy. Ok sometime I dont know if its wood or just resin, but some of these funny mixed christmas tree colours that look like an abstract painting, boggles the mind sometimes as to who think its beautifull. But Im common so maybe just dont get the look.

But but but, HE squonkers? Wth? Ok I have seen a few like Vicious ant that I can understand the look thing. But these plastic one's, sometime transparent plastic. No chip set, a mech mod that look like they took a piece of plastic, screwed in a few parts that they got from the plumbing section at Builders warehouse, with a piece of copper inside that look like it was bended with a hammer and pliers on a brick. Then I see these things go for 2k, 5k, 8k, secondhand? Im to scrared to ask what they cost new. I just dont get it.

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## jm10 (8/1/19)

Jean claude Vaaldamme said:


> Ok this has nothing to do with attys, some of the HE gear I can understand.
> As for HE mods I can also understand, seen a few nice looking ones, can understand gold inlays, exensive chipsets etc. Still dont know who decided stabilized wood is classy. Ok sometime I dont know if its wood or just resin, but some of these funny mixed christmas tree colours that look like an abstract painting, boggles the mind sometimes as to who think its beautifull. But Im common so maybe just dont get the look.
> 
> But but but, HE squonkers? Wth? Ok I have seen a few like Vicious ant that I can understand the look thing. But these plastic one's, sometime transparent plastic. No chip set, a mech mod that look like they took a piece of plastic, screwed in a few parts that they got from the plumbing section at Builders warehouse, with a piece of copper inside that look like it was bended with a hammer and pliers on a brick. Then I see these things go for 2k, 5k, 8k, secondhand? Im to scrared to ask what they cost new. I just dont get it.



This has been debated to death already,

I love my plastic mods, they may have nothing in them but they look good and i buy for looks.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Can relate 1


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## Beserker786 (8/1/19)

I also wondered, and personally in my mind I cannot justify the cost compared to what you get. Though, I do understand that some people prefer them and to them, there is fair value in what they pay. Maybe its the experience, or the pleasant look to them. I don't think id ever buy those, because I would not see the value in them for me.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Jean claude Vaaldamme (8/1/19)

Beserker786 said:


> I also wondered, and personally in my mind I cannot justify the cost compared to what you get. Though, I do understand that some people prefer them and to them, there is fair value in what they pay. Maybe its the experience, or the pleasant look to them. I don't think id ever buy those, because I would not see the value in them for me.


Yes I dont have a problem with people buying them, everyone can spend his money as he please.
But Im trying to figure out how the company that builds them come to these prices. I mean If I build a mech mod with basically nothing of value inside and decide to sell it for 5-10k then atleast the copper plate inside I will let a enginering shop bend it for me so ot looks perfect and professional. The fittings under the 510 for squonk etc I will get high grade, shiny materials.


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## GSM500 (8/1/19)

Jean claude Vaaldamme said:


> Yes I dont have a problem with people buying them, everyone can spend his money as he please.
> But Im trying to figure out how the company that builds them come to these prices. I mean If I build a mech mod with basically nothing of value inside and decide to sell it for 5-10k then atleast the copper plate inside I will let a enginering shop bend it for me so ot looks perfect and professional. The fittings under the 510 for squonk etc I will get high grade, shiny materials.


Like almost everything in vaping, its subjective. I guess HE goodies are more for the collector or OCD vaper.

These plastic box mech mods are manufactured in low volume and hand made and/or 3D printed etc. which contributes to the higher price. I have one of these, it's cute, very small and has silver contacts inside but I can't say it's the best looking or even all that well finished. It does work well but I'll probably end up selling it or trading it for something else.

Just before Christmas I stopped in at a little vape shop in Centurion and picked up a Pulse BF mech mod for R300. It works just as well as the one I've mentioned above and I have to say, it's finished better but it is mass produced.

I'm sure that some HE gear gets hype that it does not deserve, but some of it most certainly does. The Viscous Ant is a good example, they are just stunning and the photos on this forum don't do them justice, hold one in your hand, they are just out of this world, but too expensive for me.

Reactions: Like 3


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## RayDeny (8/1/19)

For me it’s easy.

I’m more then happy paying for the work that goes into making one of these “plastic boxes”.

For instance, this querk made in the UK by BVB. We were shown the progress from day one on how he made, designed and then redesigned this little thing. There are so many things that you will not find on any other mod out there as well as full silver contacts and silver 510. He put tremendous effort into this little box.

You need to remember that 9 times out of ten, these are made by one person and it takes a hell of a lot of work to get these to market hens the small runs and often the asking price.

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 1


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## Jp1905 (8/1/19)

The HE game is not for everyone.Not that I find anything wrong with it except that I have expensive taste and cant afford everything!
Im not sure I ever really completely reached high end,but I have owned a few “mid range” squonks(not sure if it classifies as HE),started with a Mölly V1,Bolt V2.5,Mölly V2,L’Atelier Holy,3 Bolt V3’s and also a Limelight Gloom.
I had the same argument once,until I held a Mölly,I instantly knew I needed to have one.
In short,once you have had a taste of better quality gear than the mass produced Chinese mods,you will understand.
I still have a Bolt V3,I love it.IMO the best squonk,it just works.
But...to add to that,best EDC setup I have had thus far,my Paranormal 250c with the Reload RTA.Some mass produced gear is really great,nothing wrong with it,personal preference is the main deciding factor,or should be.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## jm10 (8/1/19)

Jp1905 said:


> The HE game is not for everyone.Not that I find anything wrong with it except that I have expensive taste and cant afford everything!
> Im not sure I ever really completely reached high end,but I have owned a few “mid range” squonks(not sure if it classifies as HE),started with a Mölly V1,Bolt V2.5,Mölly V2,L’Atelier Holy,3 Bolt V3’s and also a Limelight Gloom.
> I had the same argument once,until I held a Mölly,I instantly knew I needed to have one.
> In short,once you have had a taste of better quality gear than the mass produced Chinese mods,you will understand.
> ...



I want a Juma Holy so bad, its not bad for the price. I may order in Jan from vapor42
Bolts i agree with to

Pair a good mech squonk with a quality rda and you have a real winner.


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## Jp1905 (8/1/19)

jm10 said:


> I want a Juma Holy so bad, its not bad for the price. I may order in Jan from vapor42
> Bolts i agree with to
> 
> Pair a good mech squonk with a quality rda and you have a real winner.


Speak to Asif,not sure if he still has it but was selling his a while back for a very good price.


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## JurgensSt (9/1/19)

One day when I'm big and responsible I will get myself a VA and SQ squonker.

The prices of one of these are around the same as a year supply of juice, cotton and coils, BUT if you look at the quality of work that goes into these mods, the price is justified.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2


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## Jean claude Vaaldamme (9/1/19)

JurgensSt said:


> One day when I'm big and responsible I will get myself a VA and SQ squonker.
> 
> The prices of one of these are around the same as a year supply of juice, cotton and coils, BUT if you look at the quality of work that goes into these mods, the price is justified.



Dont get me wrong, I have seen beautifull squonkers. Daniel got that little green one and someone has that yellowish transparent one(sorry dont know what brand they are) Im talking about these things I see that look like a Pulse with some poorly bended metal inside, that is supposed to be your elec connection/switch


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## jm10 (9/1/19)

Jean claude Vaaldamme said:


> Dont get me wrong, I have seen beautifull squonkers. Daniel got that little green one and someone has that yellowish transparent one(sorry dont know what brand they are) Im talking about these things I see that look like a Pulse with some poorly bended metal inside, that is supposed to be your elec connection/switch



If this baffles you then i dunno what you make out of paying $43.8 Mil for a blue painted board below(they called it art‍)

Reactions: Winner 1 | Funny 3


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## Jean claude Vaaldamme (9/1/19)

jm10 said:


> If this baffles you then i dunno what you make out of paying $43.8 Mil for a blue painted board below(they called it art‍)
> 
> View attachment 155374


 No, that I can understand. It is bought as a statement. It is famous and all your friends, colleagues and everyone will know what you paid for it, and they all would want to see it and talk about it.
But who in life will care whether you piad 500, 5k or 10k for a vape mod?
Its like when my uncle paid over 2mil for his new Gelandewagen, and my mother said his new Jeep looks nice

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 4


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## Beserker786 (9/1/19)

jm10 said:


> If this baffles you then i dunno what you make out of paying $43.8 Mil for a blue painted board below(they called it art‍)
> 
> View attachment 155374


 _"beauty is in the eye of the beholder"_
I can understand people prefer certain HE products, even if I cannot
_"the value of art is in the observer"_
I can understand value isn't always directly observable
_"let them eat cake"_
I also understand that paying extra for something that can be done cheaper wouldn't be a wise choice for me. I don't have *enough money* for those choices.


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## jm10 (9/1/19)

Jean claude Vaaldamme said:


> No, that I can understand. It is bought as a statement. It is famous and all your friends, colleagues and everyone will know what you paid for it, and they all would want to see it and talk about it.
> But who in life will care whether you piad 500, 5k or 10k for a vape mod?
> Its like when my uncle paid over 2mil for his new Gelandewagen, and my mother said his new Jeep looks nice



Just like a +10k mod, we all drool over HE mods and everyone wants them.
We all talk about HE mods on this forum and even go out of our way to go to lay our hands on them. Its exactly the same thing. All the guys here on the other hand dont buy to show but buy cause the want. 

Also your uncle thing does not relate because your mother like most women dont give a hoot about cars so they could never know the value or what it really is so she cant be blamed. If he had shown me the vehicle i would of been amazed and probably convinced him to let me drive it.


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## Jean claude Vaaldamme (9/1/19)

jm10 said:


> Just like a +10k mod, we all drool over HE mods and everyone wants them.
> We all talk about HE mods on this forum and even go out of our way to go to lay our hands on them. Its exactly the same thing. All the guys here on the other hand dont buy to show but buy cause the want.
> 
> Also your uncle thing does not relate because your mother like most women dont give a hoot about cars so they could never know the value or what it really is so she cant be blamed. If he had shown me the vehicle i would of been amazed and probably convinced him to let me drive it.


Im sure less than 0,05% of vapers in SA is active on this forum, and Im sure more than half of that small percentage definately dont drool over mods.
20 people on a forum that drool over HE mods will not feature in any statistics.
And yes my uncle do relate. 99% of people(men and women) dont know anything about vaping. And even if you just take vapers, I think more than 50% of them dont even know about rda/rta etc, nevermind HE gear.

Reactions: Like 1


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## jm10 (9/1/19)

Jean claude Vaaldamme said:


> Im sure less than 0,05% of vapers in SA is active on this forum, and Im sure more than half of that small percentage definately dont drool over mods.
> 20 people on a forum that drool over HE mods will not feature in any statistics.
> And yes my uncle do relate. 99% of people(men and women) dont know anything about vaping. And even if you just take vapers, I think more than 50% of them dont even know about rda/rta etc, nevermind HE gear.



I dunno dude, you seem hell bent on proving something.

Lets me state some facts(not made up figures in my head) on facebook there is 308 members in HE SA group, there is another 212 members on a vendors HE group. This alone is over 500. On this forum there are very few active members, maybe 50 in total active‍ so this forum is very small in HE. 

I on the other hand thank vaping for changing my life, i will spend money on a simple HE box mod just because of aesthetics, every mech mods works virtually the same so i buy what looks good because its a hobby. 

I tried to explain this to a mate of mine, i told him yes they work the same but as humans there are two types.
1: the ones that think with logic
2: the ones that think with the want


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## jm10 (9/1/19)

Jean claude Vaaldamme said:


> I think more than 50% of them dont even know about rda/rta etc, nevermind HE gear.



Key word “think” , please come with facts and not personal estimates. We have allot of new people joining the forum daily and we do not want to spread false information to them. 

Almost every vaper over 25 i have met is rocking some sort of rebuildable.

Reactions: Agree 5


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## Jp1905 (9/1/19)

Im not sure what the point of this thread is or what exactly you are expecting from the outcome.

High end gear has been explained numerous times in other threads.

It comes down to the same principle as cars.

Sure a Nissan 1400 can go from point A to B just like a Ferrari or Lambo,or AMG or BMW M,fact is you adapt to your preferences and what you can afford,do I like Ferrari and Lambo,sure as hell I do,do I want to own one even if I could afford it,no.It doesnt meet my requirements,I have a kid that is with me in the car 95% of the time,and its not comfy.

Same applies to HE gear.

Many vapers dream of owning certain HE mods or atties,but its just too expensive due to the details in the manufacturing and the rarity of the items.And for most vapers the HE products dont really give what they want from a mod/atty.

I really love the Solarstorms,I cant afford one,and I know DNA75c will not deliver what I want from a mod,so Im not gonna sell a kidney to try get one.

High end cars vs normal cars,HE Vape Gear vs Normal Vape Gear,both have their place.

Also the HE Modders’ customer service in 99% of the time are second to none.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## jm10 (9/1/19)

Jp1905 said:


> Im not sure what the point of this thread is or what exactly you are expecting from the outcome.
> 
> High end gear has been explained numerous times in other threads.
> 
> ...



He feels that we are been ripped of by “plastic” mech mods. He forgot to factor in r&d, materials, labour, time, rent, business costs and profit.

He also forgets that these modders are not huge companies with huge cash flows and cheaper labour costs.

Reactions: Agree 4


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## Jean claude Vaaldamme (9/1/19)

Jp1905 said:


> Im not sure what the point of this thread is or what exactly you are expecting from the outcome.
> 
> High end gear has been explained numerous times in other threads.
> 
> ...


 Well as I asked before. I understand a handcrafted mod with all kimds of fancy stuff on it. What I dont understand ishow you get to a huge price on a square plastic mod that look like a Pulse with unprofessionally fitted/made connections inside


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## Jean claude Vaaldamme (9/1/19)

jm10 said:


> Key word “think” , please come with facts and not personal estimates. We have allot of new people joining the forum daily and we do not want to spread false information to them.





jm10 said:


> Lets me state some facts(not made up figures in my head) on facebook there is 308 members in HE SA group, there is another 212 members on a vendors HE group. This alone is over 500. On this forum there are very few active members, maybe 50 in total active‍ so this forum is very small in HE.
> 
> I on the other hand thank vaping for changing my life, i will spend money on a simple HE box mod just because of aesthetics, every mech mods works virtually the same so i buy what looks good because its a hobby.
> 
> ...



Well you the one that started claiming unfounded personal figures on this thread. And I quote.
" we all drool over HE mods and everyone wants them."
"We all talk about HE mods on this forum and even go out of our way to go to lay our hands on them"


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## Clouds4Days (9/1/19)



Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 2 | Funny 5


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## jm10 (9/1/19)

Jean claude Vaaldamme said:


> Well you the one that started claiming unfounded personal figures on this thread. And I quote.
> " we all drool over HE mods and everyone wants them."
> "We all talk about HE mods on this forum and even go out of our way to go to lay our hands on them"



“We” as a generalisation. No facts, as you were stating numbers as if fact. 

Im pretty sure i gave you a brief on costs involved with a simple business model.


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## Jp1905 (9/1/19)

Okay main difference in mech squonks...materials used.

Bolts(V3) and Mollys are CNC’d.The later models all come with silver contacts.

The Holy from L’Atelier is also done on CNC machine,made from Juma/ultem with silver contacts as well.
Bolts also come in ultem and acrylic models.

Frankenskulls which are hella expensive are all engraved by hand as with the FE Bolts as well.

Supply and Demand,its simple.If theres a demand and quantities are limited,prices will go up.

If I ask a engineering company to make me 10 “plastic boxes” they gonna charge a massive price,where as if I ask for 100 000,it will cost substantially less.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Jean claude Vaaldamme (9/1/19)

jm10 said:


> “We” as a generalisation. No facts, as you were stating numbers as if fact.
> 
> Im pretty sure i gave you a brief on costs involved with a simple business model.


Lol but you quoted me saying "I think" and said I must not use personal estamates. So surely you yourself saw it as not facts, you even said I must come with facts? Lol, you have different rules for yourself?


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## jm10 (9/1/19)

Jean claude Vaaldamme said:


> Lol but you quoted me saying "I think" and said I must not use personal estamates. So surely you yourself saw it as not facts, you even said I must come with facts? Lol, you have different rules for yourself?



In reference to;
“Im sure less than 0,05% of vapers in SA is active on this forum, and Im sure more than half of that small percentage definately dont drool over mods.
20 people on a forum that drool over HE mods will not feature in any statistics.
And yes my uncle do relate. 99% of people(men and women) dont know anything about vaping”

Iv said it before and ill say it again you’re hell bent on proving something and this whole butthurt thing(not aimed or personal, just stating as to how many thread about HE pricing there are) about HE is getting old fast

You got your answer many times and i have said this has been debated to death in my opining post. 

If there was such a huge price conspiracy going on do you think these mods would sell so fast, people are not as stupid as you seem to infer. 

Lol i love debating with you I’m sure this gave people around here a good entertaining read on a boring Wednesday

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## Jean claude Vaaldamme (9/1/19)

jm10 said:


> In reference to;
> “Im sure less than 0,05% of vapers in SA is active on this forum, and Im sure more than half of that small percentage definately dont drool over mods.
> 20 people on a forum that drool over HE mods will not feature in any statistics.
> And yes my uncle do relate. 99% of people(men and women) dont know anything about vaping”
> ...


Im sure you would have seen that I did not take part in these millions of HE threads. Im sure if you read again the first post you will see Im not aiming anything at HE gear but struggle to see how mech squonkers that look like they really have bad quality workmanship can be so expensive. So no butthurt or trying to prove something.
Butt on the subject, why you reffering to emosional stuff like vaping saved my life, bit of topic?


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## jm10 (9/1/19)

Jean claude Vaaldamme said:


> Butt on the subject, why you reffering to emosional stuff like vaping saved my life, bit of topic?



Just a bit of insite as to why a person like me would by a “plastic” mod. 

To me it became a hobby so cost differ in allot of respects. I dont see it as huge price more of buying eye candy. 

If i can afford it i wouldn’t mind paying any sort of price of something i want.


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## jm10 (9/1/19)

Jean claude Vaaldamme said:


> Im sure you would have seen that I did not take part in these millions of HE threads. Im sure if you read again the first post you will see Im not aiming anything at HE gear but struggle to see how mech squonkers that look like they really have bad quality workmanship can be so expensive. So no butthurt or trying to prove something.
> Butt on the subject, why you reffering to emosional stuff like vaping saved my life, bit of topic?



But that is why i said this has been debated to death, you could of ended this thread and gone and read up on previous ones about the costing.


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## vicTor (9/1/19)

*yawn*

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 4


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## Daniel (9/1/19)

If this means so much to you to get answers @Jean claude Vaaldamme why not do a bit of research first, speak with the makers of said plastic mods (not sure which ones you were referring to), ask them why they charging so much and please pretty please ask them about these sub standard materials they are using......

P.S the green mod you were referring to was a grail of mine and I finally acquired it. It's the Palm BF DNA75 by MMVapors look them up they make pretty neat squonkers.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Vilaishima (9/1/19)

I suspect he might be referring to the price of some squonkers being very high and then the internals look like they were made by a 10 year old.

I have seen some photos of mid to high end squonkers where the internals really look like someone spent no more than 5 minutes making the internal contacts with some pliers.

If I buy a R3k+ squonker I would expect the internals to look like precision made stuff especially since it is about a 3rd of the mod and arguable the most important part.

Attached is a photo of the internals of my modified Stentorian RAM. The copper contact might look like it was made in a garage really quick from a leftover piece of plumbing pipe because that is exactly what it is.

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## Jp1905 (9/1/19)

This is the Bolt internals,very neat.

Another factor is the type of squonk bottle the mod comes with.The bottle in the pic is a Dee Bottle and they are quite expensive,but I prefer the Dee bottles.

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## Daniel (9/1/19)

If I would give any critique it would be the internals of mech plastic squonkers. At the very least put a chamfer on the bottom part or punch a nipple in....worst is having to replace battery wraps every week....

That said I agree with @Jean claude Vaaldamme to be honest for the price at least make the L shaped thingy ma Bob better.....


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## jm10 (9/1/19)

Bolt and Monark

Reactions: Like 1


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## jm10 (9/1/19)

Daniel said:


> If I would give any critique it would be the internals of mech plastic squonkers. At the very least put a chamfer on the bottom part or punch a nipple in....worst is having to replace battery wraps every week....
> 
> That said I agree with @Jean claude Vaaldamme to be honest for the price at least make the L shaped thingy ma Bob better.....



Look i never said their workmanship was top notch or there finishes either, because i would be lying. 

That been said i do think the international modders have better quality and finishes over the local guys. I do find the 510s and finishes are pretty good on international mods to. 

Opinion based on hand made mech mods.


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## zadiac (9/1/19)

vicTor said:


> *yawn*



You nailed it man!

Reactions: Agree 2 | Thanks 1


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## Jean claude Vaaldamme (9/1/19)

Daniel said:


> If this means so much to you to get answers @Jean claude Vaaldamme why not do a bit of research first, speak with the makers of said plastic mods (not sure which ones you were referring to), ask them why they charging so much and please pretty please ask them about these sub standard materials they are using......
> 
> P.S the green mod you were referring to was a grail of mine and I finally acquired it. It's the Palm BF DNA75 by MMVapors look them up they make pretty neat squo





Daniel said:


> If I would give any critique it would be the internals of mech plastic squonkers. At the very least put a chamfer on the bottom part or punch a nipple in....worst is having to replace battery wraps every week....
> 
> That said I agree with @Jean claude Vaaldamme to be honest for the price at least make the L shaped thingy ma Bob better.....


Yes and the bottles dont even line up with the squonk pin. Even my cheap mass production squonkers, at least line up, and if they dont line up, who cares if its a cheap mod, you can expect that.
Like someone compared the Nissan 1400 with a Ferrari. No problem, but dont ask a Ferrari price for a Nissan 1400.

Let me give a long story. I love camping. So a few years back one of the first 5star camping resorts in SA started getting attention. A bit off topic, the owner is currently in the news for allegedly killing his wife.
Anyway, this Mbizi resort was/is great, everything you need and a hefty price to support it.
But man if you visited camp forums, there was not any other resort that had so many complaints about it.
If you pay R300/d at a campsite and there is not enough hot water left when you want a shower, then you just take it on the chin. But if you pay R800/d for a campsite you will complain if that happen. You will also complain if the swimmingpool is not sparkling blue etc etc, where as you would maybe say nothing at a cheap resort.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Jp1905 (9/1/19)

And with all that said I still cant go camp with a Ferrari and have hotwater after everyone had a swim and went for a shower.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## antonherbst (9/1/19)

Jp1905 said:


> And with all that said I still cant go camp with a Ferrari and have hotwater after everyone had a swim and went for a shower.



What freaks me out more is people who eat their desert first before the main meal.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 5


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## Jp1905 (9/1/19)

I dip my chips in my milkshake

Reactions: Funny 4 | Creative 1


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## antonherbst (9/1/19)

Jp1905 said:


> I dip my chips in my milkshake



Please dont say its the mcdonalds range of paper products.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Jp1905 (9/1/19)

It is indeed!


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## antonherbst (9/1/19)

Jp1905 said:


> It is indeed!



Why not have atleast the HE range from STEERS. Love their chips and milkshakes

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Vilaishima (9/1/19)

jm10 said:


> View attachment 155429
> 
> Bolt and Monark



I like both of those a lot. Especially the look of the Monark - They diamond pattern on the doors, etc just makes it look awesome.
But be truthfull; do any of those two scream quality when you look at the internals?


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## Jp1905 (9/1/19)

Im not a fan of the Monark.

Get a Bolt,vape it for a week with a proper RDA and build,your opinion will change.

That Bolt is a V2 or 2.5,older version so the internals will have some mileage on them.Remember the internals are not Spring Steel so will lose shape after excessive use,thats why some look butchered,but thats the beauty behindnit,you can bend it back and Bobs your uncle.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Pho3niX90 (10/1/19)

HE gear is a subjective thing. A good comparison would be the following:

Why buy 2K Pumas over R200 stekkies from Pep? When they do the same thing?
Why buy a BMW over a Tata, when they both take you from point A to B? 

It's all about preference. 

To explain the costing of most HE mods is the time it takes to make it. 
Now lets say Mr mod maker 1, has a full time job, he comes up with a brilliant idea to make the most beautiful mods under the sun. Now to do this full time he needs to average in what his hourly rate / time is worth. 

Now I can assume a stabwood mod takes forever as it needs to be cut to size, polished over and over again, insides milled out to a certain spec, this could take a couple of hours to hundreds. Now lets say it takes 50 hours which might be under estimated.
Let's put that into an equation.

As some of these box mods comes from Germany, I will use their statistics.

The minimum hourly salary in Germany is €8.84 (ZAR 141,73), that would equate to 7086.5 in labor alone. The DNA 250c is around 600, making the total cost around R7686.5. Taking this into consideration, does these prices really seem so far fetched? 

Yes it does the same exact thing as other mods with a dna250c. But so what? 

When all has been said, I myself do not understand the pricing behind 3D printed mods. I can only assume it's the combination of material pricing + electricity pricing + maintenance on the machine. 

If this same mod were made in china, their average hourly rate is $3.60 (ZAR 49,95), using same equation it would come down to 2497.5 + 600, making total cost R3097.5. That is if it were done by hand, however china uses factories to do these things, which would probably bring the price down drastically. 

The above equations doesn't even account for the stab wood (cost estimate for 95mm x 95mm x 25mm is R800, which isn't even big enough), 510's, firing buttons, magnets (also expensive), battery sled, wiring, solder etc 

On top of it all, all countries have taxes that need to apply. 

Qucik salary sources: 
https://www.expatica.com/de/employment/minimum-wage-germany-average-salary-germany_995112.html
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-average-hourly-rate-for-a-factory-worker-in-China

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## Pho3niX90 (10/1/19)

Also, the above applies to mechs as well, if you subtract the R600 board.

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## ARYANTO (10/1/19)

Jean claude Vaaldamme said:


> Im sure less than 0,05% of vapers in SA is active on this forum, and Im sure more than half of that small percentage definately dont drool over mods.
> 20 people on a forum that drool over HE mods will not feature in any statistics.
> And yes my uncle do relate. 99% of people(men and women) dont know anything about vaping. And even if you just take vapers, I think more than 50% of them dont even know about rda/rta etc, nevermind HE gear.


What I like to know , do you put it on your insurance as well ? Imagine your house burns down and all your R5000-10000 vape gear goes up in smoke.

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## Vilaishima (10/1/19)

The point of a handmade or low volume mod costing more I can understand. All I am saying it perhaps more thought and care can be but into the fabrication of the internals?

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## Pho3niX90 (10/1/19)

Vilaishima said:


> The point of a handmade or low volume mod costing more I can understand. All I am saying it perhaps more thought and care can be but into the fabrication of the internals?


This I can agree, I had a viscous ant spade recently, and was appalled by the internal worksmanship. 
However, this comes down to brand specific, where one would skimp on this, another would do their utmost best.

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## Genosmate (10/1/19)

I agree with @Jean claude Vaaldamme OP in that some of the plastic boxes which sell for serious coin have internals which look like they've been knocked up by a metalworking student at school,couple this with pretty rudimentary moulding shaping etc I just don't see how they are worth the money.
When it comes to low volume mostly hand made/finished production in stabilised wood or Juma I do see how the costs can get high very quickly.Ive made some mods and heres an example ; To get from pic one to two takes me anywhere between 8 and 10 hours.To get from pic two to three takes at least 6 hours.Lets add 3 hours for modifying the 510 connector and making and fitting all the components/internals.Total a minimum of 17 hours,now if a plumber or electrician can charge me around R400.00 an hour then surely my labour to do this is worth that,so thats R6800.00,the block of wood is around R800.00 before its left the USA.Leaving aside all the other components,consumables and electricity etc etc.Put a DNA board anywhere near it and thats another R1000.00 + (again before its left the USA).Makes a really nice hand made mod at R10,000.00+ seem pretty fairly priced.

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## Armed (10/1/19)

Genosmate said:


> I agree with @Jean claude Vaaldamme OP in that some of the plastic boxes which sell for serious coin have internals which look like they've been knocked up by a metalworking student at school,couple this with pretty rudimentary moulding shaping etc I just don't see how they are worth the money.
> When it comes to low volume mostly hand made/finished production in stabilised wood or Juma I do see how the costs can get high very quickly.Ive made some mods and heres an example ; To get from pic one to two takes me anywhere between 8 and 10 hours.To get from pic two to three takes at least 6 hours.Lets add 3 hours for modifying the 510 connector and making and fitting all the components/internals.Total a minimum of 17 hours,now if a plumber or electrician can charge me around R400.00 an hour then surely my labour to do this is worth that,so thats R6800.00,the block of wood is around R800.00 before its left the USA.Leaving aside all the other components,consumables and electricity etc etc.Put a DNA board anywhere near it and thats another R1000.00 + (again before its left the USA).Makes a really nice hand made mod at R10,000.00+ seem pretty fairly priced.
> View attachment 155492
> View attachment 155493
> View attachment 155494


Wow thats amazing.
Sigh.
My hands are only good for breaking things.

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## GSM500 (10/1/19)

Pho3niX90 said:


> This I can agree, I had a viscous ant spade recently, and was appalled by the internal worksmanship.
> However, this comes down to brand specific, where one would skimp on this, another would do their utmost best.


That is so sad, I had one in my hands and it was stunning but I did not take a look inside. I'm a little disappointed. 

My grail must now change

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## Andre (11/1/19)

Pho3niX90 said:


> This I can agree, I had a viscous ant spade recently, and was appalled by the internal worksmanship.
> However, this comes down to brand specific, where one would skimp on this, another would do their utmost best.





GSM500 said:


> That is so sad, I had one in my hands and it was stunning but I did not take a look inside. I'm a little disappointed.
> 
> My grail must now change


I have the VA Spade regulated (DNA) and the internals are extremely neat. Have not seen how the mech looks like inside.

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## GSM500 (11/1/19)

Andre said:


> I have the VA Spade regulated (DNA) and the internals are extremely neat. Have not seen how the mech looks like inside.


Thanks @Andre, I was looking at the SX Chip version

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## Pho3niX90 (11/1/19)

Andre said:


> I have the VA Spade regulated (DNA) and the internals are extremely neat. Have not seen how the mech looks like inside.


You will notice what I speak off when you remoce the coverings of the wire and board. One I speak of was for repairs. After being bought new

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## Pho3niX90 (11/1/19)

GSM500 said:


> That is so sad, I had one in my hands and it was stunning but I did not take a look inside. I'm a little disappointed.
> 
> My grail must now change


To top it off, main problem was that it's internal resistance wasn't correct. Meaning all coils read higher than it should have been.

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## Andre (11/1/19)

Pho3niX90 said:


> You will notice what I speak off when you remoce the coverings of the wire and board. One I speak of was for repairs. After being bought new


Ah, no I did not understand you referred to the workmanship with the coverings off. Good to know, but I am certainly not going to remove the coverings from mine.

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## Pho3niX90 (11/1/19)

Andre said:


> Ah, no I did not understand you referred to the workmanship with the coverings off. Good to know, but I am certainly not going to remove the coverings from mine.


Yeah if it works, it works. Then rather do not remove anything.

That all being said, it ome hell of a beautiful mod, photos can never do them justice.

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## Zah007 (11/1/19)

Same argument goes for art some people are willing to pay crazy prices whereas other people see no value in it. I personally didn’t see what’s great about HE until I started using some HE items and have been stuck on it ever since , besides quality there’s just something about something made just for you or having something that only you own and I feel it’s fair to charge a premium for limited edition items because at one point I was willing to pay R4.5k for a paranormal project sub ohm just because it wasn’t available anymore

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## Jean claude Vaaldamme (11/1/19)

Zah007 said:


> Same argument goes for art some people are willing to pay crazy prices whereas other people see no value in it. I personally didn’t see what’s great about HE until I started using some HE items and have been stuck on it ever since , besides quality there’s just something about something made just for you or having something that only you own and I feel it’s fair to charge a premium for limited edition items because at one point I was willing to pay R4.5k for a paranormal project sub ohm just because it wasn’t available anymore


 Well this was specifically for some square sqounkers with cheap internals, but as for art. Last time I checked art prices normally increase the longer you have it, dont have HE vape gear, but do they increase in value too?

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## Zah007 (11/1/19)

Jean claude Vaaldamme said:


> Well this was specifically for some square sqounkers with cheap internals, but as for art. Last time I checked art prices normally increase the longer you have it, dont have HE vape gear, but do they increase in value too?


Well there are auctions and our favorite people “flippers” so if there’s something that’s high in demand their price goes up due to the limited supply and high demand , like at the moment Frankie’s are in demand and they fetch some heavy prices

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## Zah007 (11/1/19)

Jean claude Vaaldamme said:


> Well this was specifically for some square sqounkers with cheap internals, but as for art. Last time I checked art prices normally increase the longer you have it, dont have HE vape gear, but do they increase in value too?



Also on that point silver contacts cost a pretty penny because of the price of silver and on that I just feel it’s not fair to say cheap internals but to say cheap looking internals rather

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## Puff the Magic Dragon (12/1/19)

Zah007 said:


> Also on that point silver contacts cost a pretty penny because of the price of silver and on that I just feel it’s not fair to say cheap internals but to say cheap looking internals rather




This got me thinking so I looked up today's silver price.

If the internals have a total mass of 50g and are pure silver (which I doubt) the cost of the silver would only be around $ 25.

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## Comrad Juju (12/1/19)

Puff the Magic Dragon said:


> This got me thinking so I looked up today's silver price.
> 
> If the internals have a total mass of 50g and are pure silver (which I doubt) the cost of the silver would only be around $ 25.



Seen a few he mods that’s silver plated but they are also on the cheaper side.

Looking at a mod like the armor the fire pin is solid 99.99 silver contact and I also have the battery pin that’s solid silver. Not to sure on the weight but that was pretty pricey.

You need to consider that there is a cost to molding these parts, wastage, machining , labor and taxes that’s a lot higher than China in these countries.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## kev mac (12/1/19)

Jp1905 said:


> The HE game is not for everyone.Not that I find anything wrong with it except that I have expensive taste and cant afford everything!
> Im not sure I ever really completely reached high end,but I have owned a few “mid range” squonks(not sure if it classifies as HE),started with a Mölly V1,Bolt V2.5,Mölly V2,L’Atelier Holy,3 Bolt V3’s and also a Limelight Gloom.
> I had the same argument once,until I held a Mölly,I instantly knew I needed to have one.
> In short,once you have had a taste of better quality gear than the mass produced Chinese mods,you will understand.
> ...


I tried a couple of cheap mech Sqounk mods and while they worked alright I found the battery life terrible. 
Is this a case of getting what you pay for?

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## Jp1905 (13/1/19)

That is probably due to the contacts or voltage drop,as the battery level is lower the drop will feel much worse.Contacts could also be arc-ing and causing carbon build up which also contributes to a crappy experience.

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## fidola13 (20/1/19)

Some people are fine with Toyota Corollas. Others BMWs. Personal preference. 

I drive a bmw  !

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