# Which are the least damaging e-Liquid concentrate



## Vapegilius995 (16/10/16)

I've been reading around a lot and as far as I can tell besides nic flavors are the most dangerous part of e liquids. I was wondering since some flavors use a lot more synthetic stuff than others...

What are the safest e-liquid flavoring consecrates available...


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## incredible_hullk (16/10/16)

imo there isnt sufficient evidence to which are better or worse. we know that diacetyl and the other stuff is bad but thats abt it

anyone else have research evidence

Reactions: Agree 4


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## Duffie12 (16/10/16)

Vapegilius995 said:


> I've been reading around a lot and as far as I can tell besides nic flavors are the most dangerous part of e liquids. I was wondering since some flavors use a lot more synthetic stuff than others...
> 
> What are the safest e-liquid flavoring consecrates available...


And synthetic isn't necessarily more harmful than "natural".
If anything some natural flavours and extracts can be more harmful because they vaporize into carbon which can be carcinogenic. At least that's what I've been led to believe.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


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## Warlock (16/10/16)

Hi @Vapegilius995 You need to do a bit more reading 
Go to this thread about nicotine.
* Can Nicotine Protect An Aging Brain? *
Discussion in 'News & Media' started by Alex, Friday at 22:36.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Viper_SA (16/10/16)

The ones you don't vape


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## Soutie (16/10/16)

Synthetic flavours are actually safer from what I have read, for vaping anyway. With natural extracts you have no idea exactly what you are getting and a lot of the times you will get unwanted fructose or sucrose. With (most) synthetic flavorings you know exactly what you are getting and able to make an informed decision.

Vaping is strange like that but it isn't nutrition, it's smell.


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## NewOobY (16/10/16)

Hey dude, good question - this is my view and opinion from research I did a while back so it may have changed since. 
Apparently Flavour Art concentrates are pretty safe - i'd say they the most safe, also the various safer versions of concentrates from the major vendors like CAP v2's, TFA DX versions - not entirely sure about the rest. I know FW is pretty heavily packed with diacetyl, well at least some of the concentrates are. 
Also another point is that at the amounts we vape the stuff I don't think it is any worse than smoking stinkies, I still think it is less harmful. This is however very opinionated since many different studies approve and disprove each other.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Soutie (16/10/16)

NewOobY said:


> Hey dude, good question - this is my view and opinion from research I did a while back so it may have changed since.
> Apparently Flavour Art concentrates are pretty safe - i'd say they the most safe, also the various safer versions of concentrates from the major vendors like CAP v2's, TFA DX versions - not entirely sure about the rest. I know FW is pretty heavily packed with diacetyl, well at least some of the concentrates are.
> Also another point is that at the amounts we vape the stuff I don't think it is any worse than smoking stinkies, I still think it is less harmful. This is however very opinionated since many different studies approve and disprove each other.



FA is pretty safe and TFA have spec sheets for all their flavours on their site, they play Very open cards. CAP are slightly less forthcoming with fullon spec sheets BUT the fact they release V2 flavourings, to me anyway, mean they are quite consumer conscience. 

FW is terrible, they don't release any info that I know of and they were caught out using fructose in some of their more popular concentrates a while ago. I tend to avoid them as much as possible. Don't get me wrong, I am in the diacytal is delicious camp, and have no problems using v1's but I don't like the cloak and dagger stuff. Loraine's is even worse and I don't touch them at all.

INW, Flavora and Jungle I have very little info on, problably cause they are tougher to come by here so I haven't really looked too much into it.


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## Soutie (16/10/16)

NewOobY said:


> any worse than smoking stinkies, I still think it is less harmful. This is however very opinionated since many different studies approve and disprove each other.



Forgot this point so excuse the double post. There is so little information to make informed decsisions but I am totally unstressed about diketones, I honestly think they are delicious, but fructose and oils I am very worried about. Hence the fact I avoid Loraine's and FW. If you are worried about diketones stick to FA, TFA DX and CAP V2 stuff, you should be generally safe there.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## RichJB (16/10/16)

I just found this study which is more about vaping temps than flavours. I don't know if it's anything to be concerned about or whether they're making it sound a lot worse than it really is. But it's there for anyone who's interested.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Chukin'Vape (17/10/16)

incredible_hullk said:


> imo there isnt sufficient evidence to which are better or worse. we know that diacetyl and the other stuff is bad but thats abt it
> 
> anyone else have research evidence



Totes - the diacetyl, or trace diacetyl is concerning in our concentrates - remember that lemonade I made with Lemonade FW 10%, Stawberry Ripe TFA 5% and Strawberry TFA 3% - that mix stripped the inside of the plastic so badly that the bottle is white - almost looks like it has milk inside its so badly stripped. This reminded me of the plastic subtanks (tank "glass") that kept on breaking / disintegrating from some of the e juices. Surely if this happens to plastic, that active carcinogen is having its toll on your lungs. Freaky sh!t bro


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## Vapegilius995 (17/10/16)

Thanx for all the info so far...
I guess I grew up thinking natural is healthy didn't even consider it might not be 
(-;


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## incredible_hullk (17/10/16)

Chukin'Vape said:


> Totes - the diacetyl, or trace diacetyl is concerning in our concentrates - remember that lemonade I made with Lemonade FW 10%, Stawberry Ripe TFA 5% and Strawberry TFA 3% - that mix stripped the inside of the plastic so badly that the bottle is white - almost looks like it has milk inside its so badly stripped. This reminded me of the plastic subtanks (tank "glass") that kept on breaking / disintegrating from some of the e juices. Surely if this happens to plastic, that active carcinogen is having its toll on your lungs. Freaky sh!t bro


whooa...that is bloody scary man

Reactions: Agree 1


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## RichJB (17/10/16)

@Chukin'Vape, this also used to concern me somewhat that we were inhaling stuff that melted hard plastic. But then if it melts plastic, I would assume it's not doing any good to your stomach either if you eat it. Yet it's "generally regarded as safe" in foodstuffs. So I dunno, maybe it's something about the composition of plastic which doesn't apply to human tissue?

As I see it, and as Donald Rumsfeld might explain it, we have three areas of research:

1) The known knowns. We know that carbon monoxide, benzene, formaldehyde are bad for you. We know that cigarette smoke contains these chemicals. We know that vapour either doesn't contain them or contains them in far smaller quantities. Therefore, for these chemicals, we know that vaping is much less harmful.

2) The known unknowns. Through Maciej Goniewicz's work with flavourings, we now know that certain flavourings are more harmful to human cells than others. What we don't know is which specific constituent of the flavouring is causing this, and whether it is something to be alarmed about. However, at least we know that this might now be an issue, so we can research it further. We know what it is that we need to find out.

3) The unknown unknowns. It wasn't known until a couple of months ago that VG can produce glycidol, a probable carcinogenic, in vapour when heated to a certain point. Maciej Goniewicz's research did not find glycidol in either base VG or in vapour he tested. But he was testing at low to moderate temps typically used in cigalikes. When they cranked the temps up to what might be expected in a 200W setup, glycidol appeared in the vapour. It might not be a concern, maybe it's at such low levels that it won't induce cancer. Nevertheless, it's something we know now which we didn't know before - and didn't know that we didn't know it. How many more "unknown unknowns" are there?

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Winner 2 | Informative 1


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## NewOobY (17/10/16)

RichJB said:


> @Chukin'Vape, this also used to concern me somewhat that we were inhaling stuff that melted hard plastic. But then if it melts plastic, I would assume it's not doing any good to your stomach either if you eat it. Yet it's "generally regarded as safe" in foodstuffs. So I dunno, maybe it's something about the composition of plastic which doesn't apply to human tissue?
> 
> As I see it, and as Donald Rumsfeld might explain it, we have three areas of research:
> 
> ...



love the way you explain stuff man. Very good thought process. Give this man a bells.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Thanks 1


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## Chukin'Vape (17/10/16)

RichJB said:


> @Chukin'Vape, this also used to concern me somewhat that we were inhaling stuff that melted hard plastic. But then if it melts plastic, I would assume it's not doing any good to your stomach either if you eat it. Yet it's "generally regarded as safe" in foodstuffs. So I dunno, maybe it's something about the composition of plastic which doesn't apply to human tissue?
> 
> As I see it, and as Donald Rumsfeld might explain it, we have three areas of research:
> 
> ...



This really set me at ease - must say, well said @RichJB - what got me into vaping is all the variables in vaping, that endless pursuit to the perfect vape. However considering all the complexities and variables - there are elements (unknown unknowns) that keep on creeping up, where in most cases the vapers / manufacturers were negligent - and serious upfront testing before market was in majority ignored. Like the Ceramic scare the other day - we could have avoided it entirely. 

I'm going to follow your advice, and read more about what ingredient caused the deterioration of that plastic - and how harmful that could be for your stomach or lungs.


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