# Smoke 'em if you got 'em!



## method1 (1/4/20)

Smoke em if you got em!

A new paper from Farsalinos & co.

Studies show consistently that tobacco smokers are much less likely to be victims of COVID19 hospitalization:
9.6% smokers hospitalized vs. 31.2% expected (<0.001), based on Chinese smoking prevalence, suggesting smoking may protect against coronavirus.

This will spawn a new conspiracy theory, virus was engineered by big tobacco 

https://www.qeios.com/read/article/...SNpMMqd5mX-9CtuSdOfR6dUVcunU3t2xKKyFyL7QAWy58

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 2 | Informative 2 | Useful 1


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## Adephi (1/4/20)

Cancer, emphysema, COPD and a dictionary full of conditions vs a mild flu.

I'm not convinced to light one up.

Reactions: Agree 8


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## Timwis (1/4/20)

Loads of data and claims on case studies from both smoking and e-cigarettes makes you more likely to get more serious symptoms to smoking makes you slightly more vulnerable but e-cigarettes not. But this one is just far too good to be true, on these claims smoking is as good as a vaccine, load of bull!

Reactions: Agree 2


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## method1 (1/4/20)

I think the answers remain to be seen.

It remains unclear whether smoking _per se_ or other factors related to comorbidities may be responsible for an adverse outcome. Considering the above-mentioned uncertainties, the generalized advice on quitting smoking as a measure to improve health risk remains valid but no recommendation can be currently made concerning the effects of smoking on the risk of hospitalization for COVID-19. An important issue that also needs to be addressed is the effect of e-cigarette use on COVID-19 risk, particularly for Europe and the US where prevalence of use is higher compared to China. No studies recording e-cigarette use status among hospitalized COVID-19 patients in China were identified. Thus, no recommendation can be made for e-cigarette users.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## Timwis (1/4/20)

method1 said:


> I think the answers remain to be seen.
> 
> It remains unclear whether smoking _per se_ or other factors related to comorbidities may be responsible for an adverse outcome. Considering the above-mentioned uncertainties, the generalized advice on quitting smoking as a measure to improve health risk remains valid but no recommendation can be currently made concerning the effects of smoking on the risk of hospitalization for COVID-19. An important issue that also needs to be addressed is the effect of e-cigarette use on COVID-19 risk, particularly for Europe and the US where prevalence of use is higher compared to China. No studies recording e-cigarette use status among hospitalized COVID-19 patients in China were identified. Thus, no recommendation can be made for e-cigarette users.


There is some research to suggest that e-cigarettes can be beneficial against the virus due to the PG but a lot of studies that are anti e-cigarettes won't take into account that vapers were ex smokers so have damaged lungs to begin with. I disagree with "I think the answers remain to be seen" where smoking is concerned as Covid-19 is a lung virus and all smoking does is damages lungs so much more susceptible!

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Hooked (1/4/20)

See my post of yesterday here.

@admin perhaps this thread should be merged with mine, as the subject matter is the same?

Reactions: Like 1


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## zadiac (1/4/20)

Well, when I was smoking, I got flu and pneumonia at least once a year. Since I started vaping in 2014 I have not been sick once. I'm sorry, but the smoking theory is bullshit. Period.

Reactions: Agree 7


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## method1 (1/4/20)

Just an observation, everyone agrees with Farsalinos when he's pro vaping, but this paper gets dismissed out of hand

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Adephi (1/4/20)

method1 said:


> Just an observation, everyone agrees with Farsalinos when he's pro vaping, but this paper gets dismissed out of hand



I won't say we are dismissing it, but as a vast majority of ex-smokers we got a pretty good idea of the pro's and con's.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## RichJB (1/4/20)

It reminds me of the story about the preacher during Prohibition who wanted to wean his congregation off the evils of alcohol. So he sets up a demonstration with a glass of water, a glass of whisky and a worm. He drops the worm into the glass of water and it wriggles around. After a few seconds, he takes it out and it's still wiggling furiously. Then he drops it into the glass of whisky and within a second or two, it goes limp and dies. 

The preacher turns to the congregation triumphantly and asks "Now what does that tell y'all?" After a few seconds of silence, a voice from the back drawls "That I sure as hell ain't got worms..."

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 2 | Funny 3


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## Hooked (1/4/20)

The one thing that I have noticed, in myself (every time that I stopped smoking) and in others, is that people often get flu a few weeks after they stop smoking. Apparently it's because of the shock that the body goes through as it's no longer getting all the toxins that it has become accustomed to. This is what a doctor told a friend of mine when her lungs collapsed shortly after stopping smoking and starting to vape. Fortunately her doctor is sensible and rational enough not to blame vaping. My theory is that it is also because of the psychological stress one goes through when quitting. 

When it was suddenly announced that cigarettes were not permitted to be sold during lockdown, I rushed to the shops to buy a few cartons of cigarettes for a friend of mine. She's a quadruplegic and she was afraid that by the time she had rolled down in her wheelchair the cigs would be sold out. So many people told her that now would be a good time to stop smoking, but even as a vaper I disagreed. 

Her greatest pleasure in life is rolling around Yzerfontein, sitting outside at the coffee bar all morning and chatting to everyone - and everyone congregates around her. She's the Queen Bee of Yzer (and I mean that in a good way). For her to be cooped up at home during lockdown is very stressful, without having to cope without cigarettes on top of it all. So yes ... me, a vaper, made sure that she had enough cigarettes to last for over a month, in case lockdown is extended.

And just by the way, she has tried to vape but she coughs so much when she does. Even though I've told her it could just be a temporary thing as it happens to many new vapers, she isn't interested in persevering.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Silver (1/4/20)

Hooked said:


> The one thing that I have noticed, in myself (every time that I stopped smoking) and in others, is that people often get flu a few weeks after they stop smoking. Apparently it's because of the shock that the body goes through as it's no longer getting all the toxins that it has become accustomed to. This is what a doctor told a friend of mine when her lungs collapsed shortly after stopping smoking and starting to vape. Fortunately her doctor is sensible and rational enough not to blame vaping. My theory is that it is also because of the psychological stress one goes through when quitting.
> 
> When it was suddenly announced that cigarettes were not permitted to be sold during lockdown, I rushed to the shops to buy a few cartons of cigarettes for a friend of mine. She's a quadruplegic and she was afraid that by the time she had rolled down in her wheelchair the cigs would be sold out. So many people told her that now would be a good time to stop smoking, but even as a vaper I disagreed.
> 
> ...



That is such a kind and thoughtful gesture on your part @Hooked 
Kudos to you !
Hope your friend is coping with the lockdown so far

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1 | Thanks 1


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## Hooked (1/4/20)

Silver said:


> That is such a kind and thoughtful gesture on your part @Hooked
> Kudos to you !
> Hope your friend is coping with the lockdown so far



She's coping psychologically, as everyone is ensuring that they maintain contact with her, but financially it's a strain. However, many people are helping them out with that as well. Her husband is a fisherman and that's their only source of income. He doesn't sell to the shops etc. - he trades informally at the fish market only. Since he and his crew can't go out to fish, there's no money coming in.

Many people here are battling - and will continue to battle post-lockdown. These are all small shop/restaurant owners and since our town is a holiday town, they rely heavily on their profits during the school holidays and Easter weekend particularly. This carries them until the December season. Now - nothing.

It's really awful for a small business owner, or someone who is self-employed, to have their income cut for 3 weeks - and maybe longer, who knows?

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


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## Resistance (1/4/20)

method1 said:


> I think the answers remain to be seen.
> 
> It remains unclear whether smoking _per se_ or other factors related to comorbidities may be responsible for an adverse outcome. Considering the above-mentioned uncertainties, the generalized advice on quitting smoking as a measure to improve health risk remains valid but no recommendation can be currently made concerning the effects of smoking on the risk of hospitalization for COVID-19. An important issue that also needs to be addressed is the effect of e-cigarette use on COVID-19 risk, particularly for Europe and the US where prevalence of use is higher compared to China. No studies recording e-cigarette use status among hospitalized COVID-19 patients in China were identified. Thus, no recommendation can be made for e-cigarette users.


This is my own theory. The heat generated by the warm vapor being inhaled will kill the virus.
According to suggestions made that we should drink warm water/drinks etc. Therefore I drink tea all day and vape all-day everyday till the pandemic either dies down or my theory is made null and void by infection.
I will update if anything should change!

Reactions: Like 2


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## RichJB (1/4/20)

One important factor which doesn't seem to be addressed in Farsalinos's paper is the critical importance of age. We know that while young people can be seriously affected by coronavirus, the elderly are hospitalised and die at a far greater rate. We also know that people are more likely to quit smoking as they get older and develop a greater sense of their own mortality when they see signs that their body/health is starting to age and fail. So might it not be a simple case that China's smokers are mostly young and middle-aged people, the group which are most likely to shrug off coronavirus with symptoms no worse than a bad cold? 

The study only looks at people who are hospitalised, not those who are infected. Once we develop an antibody test and can determine who has actually had the virus, it would then be interesting to look at overall infection rates relative to smoking prevalence. If it then emerges that smokers were _infected_ at a lower rate than the smoking prevalence in the general populace, rather than merely being _hospitalised_ at a lower rate, we could start to determine if there was indeed a protective mechanism in tobacco smoke.

It would also probably help to determine what percentage of infected people had been smokers at any point, not merely if they were smokers at the time of infection.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Hooked (1/4/20)

As of today, cigarettes may be sold at supermarkets. Why not vape juice then? See my post here.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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