# Concentrates & Pricing V2



## Richio (7/2/18)

Hi @franshorn

Original Thread - https://www.ecigssa.co.za/concentrates-and-price.t37937/page-5#post-636002

Thank you for the effort in putting that list together and I am actually glad this topic came up. I won't speak on behalf of other vendors as it is not my place to do so but I will give you some insight on why the prices differ from our side and hopefully other vendors can pitch in (hence the new thread here). This is not an attack on any other vendor but just insight into the industry.
So why do the prices differ?

Bottling - Where the concentrate is being bottled into smaller sizes. Is it in someones kitchen? Is it in a ISO lab? Is it in a clean room facility? Is there someone watching over the process?

Quality testing - Is the vendor testing the item he/she is selling to make sure it is consistent? Can the bottle be back tracked to the original bottle. if there is a defective batch, can it be back tracked to make sure you don't get a defective product when you buy it again.

Type of bottle - Cheap eye dropper bottle/ True HDPE/ PET bottle?

Variety - Having a big variety requires buying the manufacturers entire range and hoping that all the flavours would sell (in reality only 30 - 40% sells and the balance is capital in a 10ml bottle on a shelve)

Storage - Where do you keep so many products? What about nicotine storage? Warehouse rentals and temperature controlled areas don't come cheap

Hazmat Shipping - Some concentrates need to be handled by a dangerous goods agent and shipped in on a separate shipment. Vendors that stock these are most likely covering a portion of that dreaded shipping fee.

Picking and packing - Pulling an order of 30 - 40 items takes time and staff

Free delivery - This means someone is covering the cost, that someone is the vendor. Is the vendor offering overnight/ Express free delivery or is is the cheapest courier option to punt FREE DELIVERY.

Service - I won't go too much into this but maintaining a certain level of service requires extra overheads to make sure that level is maintained.

I hope this gives some insight into why prices differ. At the end of the day, price is important but so is maintaining quality, service and bringing new products to the DIY market.

Reactions: Like 5 | Winner 8 | Informative 2 | Useful 1


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## Moerse Rooikat (7/2/18)

Richio said:


> Service - I won't go too much into this but maintaining a certain level of service requires extra overheads to make sure that level is maintained


this is more important to me i will gladly pay more for this and peace of mind 
thank you Blck Vapour for being my main and best supplier

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 3


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## DizZa (7/2/18)

I could not agree more with @Richio. 

I often like to look back at the "good old days" when we only had 2 vendors selling DIY Supplies and the options were 20 TFA concentrates and local flavouring. 

I want to take Molinberry as an example, as a vendor you need to buy a certain amount from them in order to get "Wholesale" pricing. Its been 3 months, I have yet to sell 10% of my capital outlet. Which means a sale of MB is evident, the consumer wants variety/quality/effieciency and superb service. This all very quickly relates to overheads. 

In this industry the consumer can log onto the suppliers website and see what we pay for products, be it hardware, international juice or concentrates. 

Selling TFA at R25 a 10ml raises concerns in my head, how do they afford premises? How do they afford to change filters in their clean room/lab? How do they grow their range? 

My first train of thought, variety out the window, quality out the window, effeciency - well from the kitchen counter to the courier and an email isnt that hard I suppose. 

Juice in shops that is not made up to standard and being sold to end users are frowned upon. Time we take a look at the materials our DIY folk is sourching from certain vendors. 

Rant over. Apologies if anyone takes offence in this.

Reactions: Like 7


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## RichJB (7/2/18)

Richio said:


> Variety - Having a big variety requires buying the manufacturers entire range and hoping that all the flavours would sell (in reality only 30 - 40% sells and the balance is capital in a 10ml bottle on a shelve)



This part is key for me. I have zero experience in retailing but my sense is that if I was a vendor and wanted to bring in LorAnn, I'd get Watermelon, Banana Cream, Lemonade, Cream Cheese Icing and maybe one or two others like Marshmallow. Those are the ones that seasoned DIYers want, the rest are just going to sit on the shelf. But what happens when Wayne drops a recipe with LA Cheesecake and suddenly everybody wants it? To what extent do DIYers' esoteric and flighty wish lists balance against the need of the vendor to limit stock to product that actually moves?

Although perhaps I'm also wrong that seasoned DIYers determine the trends. I was browsing a vendor's site the other day and noted that TFA Honey was sold out. How is that even possible? I don't know a single DIYer who will buy TFA Honey. Yet obviously somebody is buying it.

DIY is moving into a difficult space imo. It's great that Vape Train, SolubArome, Stixx Mixx and others are entering the market. But each new entrant dilutes the pool of "must have" staple concentrates and then provides a slew of "might want" concentrates that the bigger vendors feel compelled to stock. Even for DIYers, the First Rule is becoming truly unmanageable. ATF recipes are now dominated by Flv. I have only just started to dip into a small selection of Flv, there is no way I can get even half the range. But if you aren't using Flv in everything, you just aren't happening. It's fine for Fear, ID10-T, skiddlz and others, Flv sent them the entire range for free. For us mere mortals, it's eina.

I was discussing this the other night with another DIYer and we both felt that having a staple stock of 50-100 flavours, and then using one-shots to fill out the rest, is the way that DIY will go. In the days of TFA/FW/Cap/FA/Inw, it was viable to have all/most of the 'good' flavours. Nowadays, it's too much. Even Apexified's ridiculous stash of 1500+ concentrates will now only allow him to make around 60% of recipes on ATF.

Finally, I have to ask - and I understand that you may not want to answer - but it's a question that keeps me awake at night: why does everybody stock FW Unicorn Vomit? There are few sure things in life. But when a new vendor opens with a small initial selection of FW, I will bet my house that Unicorn Vomit will be one of them. It is universally loathed/ignored by DIYers, there are no recipes for it. Yet every single DIY vendor in the country has it. It's one of the enduring mysteries of DIY why a flavour that is so unappealing to most DIYers is apparently so appealing to vendors. Does FW welcome new wholesale customers with a complimentary 44 gallon drum of it?  Although, again, I could well be wrong and Unicorn Vomit flies off the shelves but you can't move Hazelnut. There's no telling how some folks approach DIY.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2 | Winner 5


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## Spyro (22/2/18)

"Free delivery - This means someone is covering the cost, that someone is the vendor. Is the vendor offering overnight/ Express free delivery or is is the cheapest courier option to punt FREE DELIVERY."

@Richio Which do you guys offer?


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## Richio (22/2/18)

Hi @Spyro 

We always offer overnight or airfreight shipping. This means the package should get to you in 1 - 2 days (unless it's an outlying area).

Reactions: Like 1


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## Spyro (22/2/18)

Richio said:


> Hi @Spyro
> 
> We always offer overnight or airfreight shipping. This means the package should get to you in 1 - 2 days (unless it's an outlying area).



Thanks, I am currently expecting a delivery, just not totally sure when. Says Economy though, 1-3 days.


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