# Worried about addiction



## Zia (22/12/17)

Hi all. So I’m kinda new to vaping and I’ve never smoked a cigarette before. I have some 3mg nic flavours because the store I bought from was out of 0mg. Do you guys think that I’ll get addicted? If so how long will it take? I’ll sell these nic flavours if that is the case. I’m just really worried about becoming addicted.


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## SinnerG (22/12/17)

Why would you even start vaping? You have clean lungs, why mess with them in any way?

Reactions: Agree 10


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## Trishan Gounden (22/12/17)

Zia said:


> Hi all. So I’m kinda new to vaping and I’ve never smoked a cigarette before. I have some 3mg nic flavours because the store I bought from was out of 0mg. Do you guys think that I’ll get addicted? If so how long will it take? I’ll sell these nic flavours if that is the case. I’m just really worried about becoming addicted.


I started off with 0mg nicotine and then went up 1.5mg and 3mg. Going back is very difficult. Yes you become addicted somewhat and miss that nicotine hit


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## Trishan Gounden (22/12/17)

SinnerG said:


> Why would you even start vaping? You have clean lungs, why mess with them in any way?


I hear you. 

Personally I wasn't much of a smoker. The odd cigarette/cigar now and then. Smoked a bit of hubbly as well. But I don't think I was in anyway addicted to them. I did have cravings on the odd occasion due to stress etc.

So you could say that I got into vaping without being an ex smoker. I picked up vaping from a friend who had a device and ever since then I've been hooked and crave the nicotine at times. It would be hard for me to stop completely. 

So I guess for some of us, as people got into smoking for various reasons. There's a few of us who have got into vaping. 

Regards


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## zadiac (22/12/17)

Zia said:


> Hi all. So I’m kinda new to vaping and I’ve never smoked a cigarette before. I have some 3mg nic flavours because the store I bought from was out of 0mg. Do you guys think that I’ll get addicted? If so how long will it take? I’ll sell these nic flavours if that is the case. I’m just really worried about becoming addicted.



Just don't. If you've never smoked, then just don't.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 12


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## kev mac (22/12/17)

Zia said:


> Hi all. So I’m kinda new to vaping and I’ve never smoked a cigarette before. I have some 3mg nic flavours because the store I bought from was out of 0mg. Do you guys think that I’ll get addicted? If so how long will it take? I’ll sell these nic flavours if that is the case. I’m just really worried about becoming addicted.


Well after all nicotine is addictive and though ejuice can be yummy why vape unless it's to quit a decades long habit?
If you are compelled to do so at least go zero nicotine.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


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## Huffapuff (22/12/17)

Zia said:


> Hi all. So I’m kinda new to vaping and I’ve never smoked a cigarette before. I have some 3mg nic flavours because the store I bought from was out of 0mg. Do you guys think that I’ll get addicted? If so how long will it take? I’ll sell these nic flavours if that is the case. I’m just really worried about becoming addicted.


If you've never smoked before please don't vape. Why run the risk of becoming addicted to something as tricky as nicotine? 

Vaping was invented to help smokers quit, not to get more people addicted to nicotine.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## BubiSparks (22/12/17)

@Zia - Answers to your questions:
1 - Yes
2 - A day or two

Vaping with nicotine when you've never smoked before is, frankly, irrational!!! Stop NOW!!!

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## 87hunter (22/12/17)

I only smoked 3-4 packs a week. Vaping was supposed to help me quit.
In 2 months I've gone from 6mg to 3mg shop bought or 2mg in some diy juices.
My lungs feel new from not smoking.
I personally wouldn't start if I had never smoked.
If you where going to Start smoking, this is the better option, but don't start if you don't have too.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Room Fogger (22/12/17)

@Zia , I used to do 2 - 3 packs a day! Currently vaping at 3 mg store and 2 mg diy, and no craving from my side to up the nic, but I do vape a lot. Higher nic makes me feel iffy, so this works for me.

Yes, I feel better as an ex smoker, but for someone to start vaping who has not smoked does not make sense to me. Why? However in the same breath, if you have to do it for whatever reason, and it keeps you away from smokes, hubbly etc, then do 0 Nic. Why introduce something else into your system that is not needed.

Hope you will figure it out and make a decision that works for you.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Stosta (22/12/17)

Hi @Zia 

Nicotine is extremely addictive and if you start with it, it'll be very hard to stop. Part of the reason vaping is so succesful in getting people off the cigs (in my opinion anyway) is that it still provides the user with the most addictive part of the cigarette, the nicotine.

While I would strongly recommend not vaping at all if you haven't been a smoker, I know a few people that do, but I would definitely say stay away from the juices with nicotine in them. Take the juices back to the store and explain your story to them, if they are unopened I'm sure you'll have some luck in getting them to swap them out for nic-free juices.

Reactions: Agree 4


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## antonherbst (22/12/17)

@Zia 

Take it from a fellow non smoker that converted to vaping. - i did the hubbly smoke over the weekends just as n relaxant when having a braai or being with friends. 

1. I would stop with the nicotine juices straight away. I vape only 0mg juice and consume about 4mls on a daily basis. When i do take the occasional nicotine juice in my vapes i can immediately feel the “hit” and then at about 3 puffs in i stop as its not a nice feeling to “see the dragons in my garden”

2. If like now over the last week where i had a terrible flu in my system i do not vape at all and good enough i dont miss vaping when i dont vape. So the chances of you getting adicted to a 0mg nic juice is non existent. 

3. Why i vape - it has helped me stop the dangerous hubbly smoking. I love the flavors availible to vape. And i have converted 5 smokers to vaping over the last year and that helps them being healthier. 

You are welcome to contact me with other questions if you have any and ill gladly help and guide you as far as my knowledge goes.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Petrus (22/12/17)

Vaping is as follows:
1. You start, if you weren't a smoker why start?
2. You test as many juice as possible, don't know why, eventually sits with 40-50 half full 30ml bottles and stick to two or three dedicated profiles.
3. Then you start to buy hardware on such a regular basis, that The Courier Guy starts to irritate your wife/girl.
4. Then you are addicted brother..........

Reactions: Like 5 | Winner 1 | Funny 2 | Can relate 1


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## Silver (22/12/17)

Zia said:


> Hi all. So I’m kinda new to vaping and I’ve never smoked a cigarette before. I have some 3mg nic flavours because the store I bought from was out of 0mg. Do you guys think that I’ll get addicted? If so how long will it take? I’ll sell these nic flavours if that is the case. I’m just really worried about becoming addicted.



Hi @Zia

As much as I love this vaping community and vaping in general, i have to try encourage you not even to start vaping if you didnt smoke.

Although vaping is considered to be much safer than smoking, its certainly not 100% safe and the long term effects are not fully known. 

If you have to experiment with vaping, then rather stick to zero nicotine juices and just experience the flavour.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Alex (22/12/17)

http://www.ecigarette-politics.com/is-nicotine-addictive.html

*Summary*
Is nicotine 'addictive'? Probably not. No one can make definitive statements on this as there has never been any published research in humans. _No clinical trial specifically to examine the potential of nicotine to create dependence in people who have never consumed tobacco has ever been published_.
There is currently no evidence that it is dependence-forming unless/until it is delivered in tobacco, and especially in cigarette smoke, which is presumed to cause some sort of chemical change in the brain. After smoking tobacco, especially in cigarettes, people may become addicted to smoking and dependent on nicotine. Since there are 9,600 other compounds identified to date in tobacco/smoke, with multiple candidates for potentiators in that mix, it is believed that the synergy of multiple compounds causes a persistent brain chemistry change.
Nicotine, however, is a normal, natural part of the diet and everyone tests positive for it. Because nicotine is well-demonstrated to have prophylactic and treatment functions for neurodegenerative, auto-immune and inflammatory diseases and some cognitive function disorders, it is clearly an active component in the diet with positive and preventative functions - i.e. a nutrient.
There are multiple published clinical trials investigating the positive effect of nicotine supplementation on such conditions, which by definition need to employ never-smokers. Without exception, all report that of the hundreds of subjects who had large quantities of pure nicotine administered to them daily for up to six months, no person ever exhibited the smallest sign of dependence: no withdrawal symptoms, or reinforcement, or continuation of use in any form after the trial finished.
*It is impossible to clinically demonstrate any potential for dependence for pure nicotine with never-smokers, no matter how much is given or for how long.*
Neither is nicotine associated with cancer or any other disease. There are clearly significant financial and other benefits to maintaining the illusion that nicotine is addictive and harmful, since otherwise such a strong campaign to protect this perception would not be sustained.

Reactions: Like 4 | Winner 1 | Informative 2


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## veecee (22/12/17)

Hi Zia,

Nicotine is the physically addictive substance. If you aren't already addicted, then stay far away from it. 

However, for me, another "addiction" is to the DIY side of vaping. The mix your own juices, and fiddle with new gear side. And this part of vaping can be expensive.

I think the message is clear, if you've never been a smoker, then why start?


Sent from my Lenovo TAB 2 A10-70L using Tapatalk

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Stosta (22/12/17)

Alex said:


> http://www.ecigarette-politics.com/is-nicotine-addictive.html
> 
> *Summary*
> Is nicotine 'addictive'? Probably not. No one can make definitive statements on this as there has never been any published research in humans. _No clinical trial specifically to examine the potential of nicotine to create dependence in people who have never consumed tobacco has ever been published_.
> ...


Oh! That's interesting @Alex , it kinda changes my picture of things!

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## Waine (22/12/17)

Nicotine is one of the most addictive substances on earth, close to cocaine, as both chemicals stroke the same pleasure points in your dopamine neuro -receptors. I have danced with nicotine on and off for the past 39 years. There is no getting away from it. In my opinion, vaping causes one to consume more nicotine that cigarettes because of the ease of vaping. No lighting up, just pick up, vape, and carry on what you are doing until you see the vaporiser sitting on your table, and you have another hit, just for the sake of it. My take? -- Don't start vaping just for the sake of vaping. You will become addicted, if not to the "zero nicotine" -- then to the complex ritual of vaping albeit without the nicotine. One day you will go through a stressful time in your life, and your brain will cry out to you to get some nicotine.

If you were never a smoker, my advice: don't start.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Zia (22/12/17)

Thanks to everyone for the advice!

My actual reason for vaping is because I'm a tinkerer. I play around a lot with electronics and such, and one day when my friend pitched up with his device, I was intrigued. I did some searching and saw all the possibilities for customization and fidgeting I could do with the coils and mods. To me it's more like a Lego for adults. I don't vape all day every day and don't intend on doing so. I will most definitely return these juices or sell them and buy some 0mg flavours, just to test my creations.

Thank you all for the advice. Most of you are older than me and I will most definitely take your experience into consideration. Thank you for saving me from such a harmful drug .

Reactions: Like 4 | Winner 1


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## SinnerG (22/12/17)

Alex said:


> http://www.ecigarette-politics.com/is-nicotine-addictive.html
> 
> *Summary*
> Is nicotine 'addictive'? Probably not. No one can make definitive statements on this as there has never been any published research in humans. _No clinical trial specifically to examine the potential of nicotine to create dependence in people who have never consumed tobacco has ever been published_.
> ...


Very interesting.
However, why do vaping converts feel better after having a vape with nic in it, thereby avoiding having a cig? There is a recent thread of a member craving a cig and then using a higher nic content juice to get over that craving. If the only shared substance between a cig and e-juice is nicotine then there surely must be something to nicotine dependence.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## Alex (22/12/17)

SinnerG said:


> Very interesting.
> However, why do vaping converts feel better after having a vape with nic in it, thereby avoiding having a cig? There is a recent thread of a member craving a cig and then using a higher nic content juice to get over that craving. If the only shared substance between a cig and e-juice is nicotine then there surely must be something to nicotine dependence.



I have a depenance on many things, coffee being one of the more well known ones. Does that caffeine dependance have any negative consequences for me? not as far as my research is concerned. It has quite a few benefits though.

The real question to ask is this, does nicotine have any negative health related issues outside of tobacco and cigarettes?

I don't encourage never smokers to start vaping, because there are always potential risks. But those risks pertain more towards flavourings and coil temperatures etc, than towards the nicotine. The current trend of using low nic juices at high wattages, resulting in massive juice consumption with the main aim of creating "clouds" is something I'm personally completely against.

I have shared many research articles on this site that specifically deal with nicotine, and the serious misconceptions surrounding it.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 3


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## Andre (22/12/17)

SinnerG said:


> Very interesting.
> However, why do vaping converts feel better after having a vape with nic in it, thereby avoiding having a cig? There is a recent thread of a member craving a cig and then using a higher nic content juice to get over that craving. If the only shared substance between a cig and e-juice is nicotine then there surely must be something to nicotine dependence.


As stated in the article posted by @Alex above, the nicotine addiction is caused by other substances in cigarettes.

Addiction by definition requires the addict to have more and more of the substance. The vast majority of vapers go down in nic and not up.

As @Alex said, there seems to be more cause for concern in high power and consumption vaping.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 5 | Disagree 2


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## Hooked (23/12/17)

Petrus said:


> Vaping is as follows:
> 1. You start, if you weren't a smoker why start
> 2. You test as many juice as possible, don't know why, eventually sits with 40-50 half full 30ml bottles and stick to two or three dedicated profiles.
> 3. Then you start to buy hardware on such a regular basis, that The Courier Guy starts to irritate your wife/girl.
> 4. Then you are addicted brother..........



@Petrus And, if I may add, your bank balance decreases, partly because of all the juices that you buy, but also because one mod is never enough!!

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Hooked (23/12/17)

@Zia I quite understand your situation. You have an overwhelming desire to narrow your arteries and a craving for a heart attack. Continue with nicotine - it will help you to achieve both.


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## Alex (23/12/17)

Hooked said:


> @Zia I quite understand your situation. You have an overwhelming desire to narrow your arteries and a craving for a heart attack. Continue with nicotine - it will help you to achieve both.



@Hooked, perhaps you should have a look at these studies by* Dr Konstantinos Farsalinos*..

1. Re: Narrowing Arteries - http://www.ecigarette-research.com/web/index.php/research/2013/144-electronic-cigarettes-contrary

*Details*
Created on Monday, 16 December 2013 06:35 

*Electronic cigarettes, contrary to tobacco, do not stiffen the arteries*

A new study about electronic cigarettes was presented during the annual congress of the European Association of Cardiovascular Imaging (EUROECHO 2013, Istanbul, Turkey). The study evaluated the effects of electronic cigarettes on aortic elasticity, compared with the respective effects of tobacco cigarettes.


Blood vessels need to be elastic in order to properly deliver blood from the heart to the vital organs. It is well-known that one of the main adverse effects of smoking is acute stiffening of the blood vessels. Aorta, the central artery which delivers blood from the heart to every part of the human body, is particularly affected by smoking. Until now, the effects of electronic cigarette use were unknown.


Researchers from Onassis Cardiac Surgery Center in Greece, led by Dr Konstantinos Farsalinos, recruited 108 healthy subjects (51 smokers and 57 electronic cigarette users). All participants were evaluated at baseline, after smoking and vaping abstinence for 8 hours. Smokers were asked to smoke 2 tobacco cigarettes and use an 18mg/ml nicotine-containing electronic cigarette for 10 minutes on 2 separate days; electronic cigarette users were evaluated after 10 minutes of electronic cigarette use. Subjects were evaluated 20 minutes after use, by echocardiographic measurement of 3 elasticity parameters of the aorta.


Smoking 2 tobacco cigarettes caused significant stiffening of the aorta; all measured parameters showed a 17-22% worsening of elastic properties. On the contrary, both in smokers and electronic cigarette users, no difference was observed after electronic cigarette use. The results are important because aortic elasticity is a significant predictor of future cardiovascular events. However, no difference was observed at baseline, indicating that a substantial period of smoking abstinence is required before any beneficial effects in aortic elasticity are observed (vapers in this study were smoke-free for 10 months). 


This study adds to currently available evidence which universally supports that electronic cigarettes are significantly less harmful compared to smoking. More studies on longer-duration vapers are needed in order to detect any objectively-measured chronic beneficial effect of switching from tobacco to electronic cigarette use on the elastic properties of the aorta.

2. Re: Heart Attack - http://www.ecigarette-research.com/web/index.php/research/2013/127-no-adverse-effects

*Details*
Created on Saturday, 31 August 2013 19:28 

*Electronic cigarettes: no adverse effects on blood and oxygen supply to the heart*





Electronic cigarette use does not cause any immediate adverse effects on coronary circulation and oxygen supply to the heart, according to a new study presented today in the European Society of Cardiology annual congress in Amsterdam.


Researchers at Onassis Cardiac Surgery Center, lead by principle investigator Dr Konstantinos Farsalinos, evaluated the effects of electronic cigarette use on the maximal ability of the coronary arteries to supply with blood and oxygen the heart itself. They recruited 60 participants, 30 smokers and 30 electronic cigarette users. Measurement of maximal coronary blood flow was performed in smokers before and after smoking 2 cigarettes and, on a separate day, after using an electronic cigarette with 18mg/ml nicotine concentration for 15 minutes. In electronic cigarette users, coronary circulation was evaluated before and after using the same electronic cigarette device for 15 minutes.


“This is the first study that has examined the effects of electronic cigarette use on coronary circulation”, said leading researcher Dr Konstantinos Farsalinos. “We know that smoking has immediate adverse effects, lowering the ability of the coronary arteries to deliver blood to the heart, and our purpose was to test whether electronic cigarette use has similar effects”, he added.


After smoking 2 cigarettes, the researchers observed a 16% reduction in maximal coronary blood flow and a 19% elevation in resistance to flow. However, after electronic cigarette use, no difference in coronary blood flow and resistance was observed compared to the baseline measurement. “The results are impressive and indicate that, unlike tobacco, electronic cigarette use does not affect the oxygenation of the heart”, said Dr Farsalinos. “However, we must be cautious and make clear that this does not mean that there are no implications from long-term use. It is currently impossible to evaluate the effects of long-term use but currently available evidence strongly suggests that electronic cigarettes are by far less harmful alternatives compared to tobacco cigarettes.”


Public health authorities all over the world are evaluating the regulatory status of electronic cigarettes. Lately, the European Commission has proposed a medicinal regulation. Dr Farsalinos said: “Acknowledging the significant potential of electronic cigarettes as smoking alternatives and based on the scientific evidence which clearly indicated that they are much safer, it is important that health authorities will regulate these products in a way that will promote rather than restrict their availability and use by smokers who are unable to quit with currently approved medical methods.”


*Dr Konstantinos Farsalinos M.D*
*Research Fellow*
Onassis Cardiac Surgery Greece, Department of Pharmacology, University of Patras, Greece





Konstantinos E. Farsalinos, M.D., is a research fellow at the Onassis Cardiac Surgery Center in Athens, Greece, and at the Department of Pharmacy, University of Patras, Greece. He has been conducting laboratory and clinical research on e-cigarettes as principle investigator since 2011. Examples of his work include the first study on the cytotoxic effects of e-cigarette vapor on cultured cells and the immediate effects of e-cigarette use on cardiac function and coronary circulation. He ran a worldwide online survey of almost 20,000 vapers (users of e-cigarettes) identifying patterns of use and experience with e-cigarettes among consumers, published in 2014. He has presented his research findings at major international scientific congresses and his research was used in preparing the regulatory framework on e-cigarettes by the European Union. As of 2016, he has published more than 40 studies and articles in international peer-reviewed scientific journals about smoking, tobacco harm reduction, and e-cigarettes

Competing Interest: For some of the studies, the institution has received funding from e-cigarette companies. None of the researchers received any compensation for participating to the studies.

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## Silver (23/12/17)

Thanks @Alex !

Dr Farsalinos is amazing

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Hooked (23/12/17)

@Alex Thanks so much for this informative post. I love my nic and have sometimes felt concern, especially since heart conditions run in the family. One would of course still need to exercise caution until long-term studies have been conducted. For the time being, I'll continue to vape with Gusto (pun intended)!

Reactions: Like 3


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## Hooked (24/12/17)

Alex said:


> http://www.ecigarette-politics.com/is-nicotine-addictive.html
> 
> *Summary*
> Is nicotine 'addictive'? Probably not. No one can make definitive statements on this as there has never been any published research in humans. _No clinical trial specifically to examine the potential of nicotine to create dependence in people who have never consumed tobacco has ever been published_.
> ...



@Alex Very interesting, but I think that nicotine DOES lead to dependence thereon. In short, I've smoked, chewed Nicorette (nicotine gum) and now I'm vaping. With all three methods, consumption has increased over time. 

If I'm without nicotine for just a few hours (about 5 - 6 hours seems to be my limit) I go into a rapid decline, becoming extremely irritable, verbally aggressive and finally, tearful. 

Which variables are common to cigarettes, Nicorette and nicotine in e-liquid?
1. Nicotine, in some form or another
2. Oral fixation - however, if it were oral fixation and not nicotine, then I would remain emotionally stable while chewing ordinary chewing gum or sucking a sweet. I do not.
3. Variable X (unknown to me)

In conclusion, my personal experience suggests that I am dependent on nicotine.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Andre (24/12/17)

Hooked said:


> @Alex Very interesting, but I think that nicotine DOES lead to dependence thereon. In short, I've smoked, chewed Nicorette (nicotine gum) and now I'm vaping. With all three methods, consumption has increased over time.
> 
> If I'm without nicotine for just a few hours (about 5 - 6 hours seems to be my limit) I go into a rapid decline, becoming extremely irritable, verbally aggressive and finally, tearful.
> 
> ...



I am too, because I smoked. My nic consumption has decreased over time. Juice consumption has stayed relatively stable.
Your history on the forum seems to suggest your nic consumption went up solely because you were in the initial stages of vaping and finding the nic level appropriate for you.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Room Fogger (24/12/17)

Interesting observations from all. As you may know, I vape a lot, but I have gone from 6 mg Nic when I stopped, and I did feel it then, and did consider upping it, to 3mg on store bought and 2 mg in diy now. I have also done a 0 nic juice, and it did not feel different to the "norm" for me. Consumption did increase slightly, but this was one of the longer days, where I use more in any case.

In my case it seems I need something to do with my hands, it's more the motions, especially while driving. I am going to be trying some more zero nic, but will do nic as I do not think it is too harmfull in the way I am getting it in when compared to when I was smoking. Although one or two attempts cannot yet prove anything, no nic did not turn me in the Grumpy Grinch or Conan, per trying quitting before. 

To each his own, and the reasearch is still in its infancy, who knows what they may find. I think use what works for you, but see what happens when you change a variable, that keeps it interesting. I feel better since starting to vape, and hope that this will continue, and that my health will keep on improving. 

Happy clouds to all, nic or no nic, as long as it rocks your boat.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Petrus (25/12/17)




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## SinnerG (25/12/17)

Petrus said:


> View attachment 117265


This is what worries me the most about trying to switch. Still waiting for my stuff to arrive and I've already ordered 4 RTAs.


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