# Clones Clones Clones



## RevnLucky7 (12/11/13)

Couldn't see a thread I wanted to drop this in so I thought I'd just mention it here.

First off, I hate clones and I don't condone buying them. It frustrates the modders of the original products and it makes selling and buying very rare items hard not knowing whats authentic and what isn't.Clones are made out of poor quality stainless and most of the time you can tell the difference. But sometimes the line is very fine. That said, if I ever was going to try some, I'd do it from here 

http://vapourtrend.com

I never wrote this.

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## Derick (13/11/13)

Well I see two categories here and I think the distinction needs to be made

Counterfeit: (knock offs)
Protank 2 for example - there are about 3 pages of 'Kanger Protank 2's on Alibaba made by various Chinese companies - they come in the same box, have the Kanger logo on them etc. etc. but they are not made by Kanger. They are usually inferior products, made with cheaper and thinner materials and the design is usually slightly off, leading to tanks that gurgle, leak etc and coils that don't last longer than a day. These guys usually don't offer a guarantee for longer than a month, because they know that is about how long it will take for the end user to realize he has bought a knock-off.

Any product that is slightly popular have hosts of companies making counterfeits of them. This is bad because people think they are buying the real thing, get a shitty counterfeit product and vow never to buy that brand again. So the vaper loses out, the Original manufacturer loses out and even the counterfeit manufacturer loses out

It is probably illegal, but most definitely unethical and the only way to be sure these days that you are buying the original product is to buy from the factory themselves, or at least check with the factory who their resellers are.

Clone:
Golden Greek makes a GGTS - beautiful mech mod from polished brass and chrome - etched with the GG logo and polished to a mirror like finish. They are rare, they are expensive.

Kamry makes a KTS - you put the two side by side and you can clearly see which one is made by Kamry and which one is made by GG, but they look fairly similar in design and function. The KTS is a clone of the GGTS - BUT , the huge distinction here is that Kamry is not trying to pass it off as a GGTS, they are not telling you are buying a GG product, they are selling their own product, but anybody that knows a GGTS will recognize the KTS as a clone of the GGTS. When you buy a KTS you are not expecting a GGTS.

Similar examples can be found everywhere - the Russian 91%, is one good one I can think of right now.

So clones I am fine with, we sell them, I will buy them(if they are good and come with at least a 6 month guarantee) and this kind of practice is the norm throughout many other industries and I see nothing wrong with it: It gives people that can't or won't spend a small fortune, a chance to own and use something of a particular design and look.

Don't get me wrong, there are crappy clones out there, but with the internet being what it is and youtube reviews popping up within hours of a product's release, these crappy ones are quickly filtered out of the mainstream vaping scene, with the better ones sticking around and selling well.

So counterfeits are bad, clones I do not have a problem with and I personally don't see why anybody should

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## TylerD (13/11/13)

What Derick said.

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## iPWN (13/11/13)

Yup what Derick said.

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## RevnLucky7 (13/11/13)

Didn't mean for this to turn into a discussion on whether clones are a do or a don't. That was really more intended as a disclaimer 

What I meant was if you are going to by clones - buy Rainbow Heaven clones and not the crap on Fast Tech. These things are exceptionally well made... for clones that is .

I have to admit, I'm actually thinking about giving one of them a try in particular. Also I can't find them damned drip tip adapter for my ithaka in stock anywhere, but the Rainbow Heaven clones adapter fits. All parts are 100% machined as original from what I have seen and spares are readily available.


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## Derick (13/11/13)

Well as you can see that post was made at 3am - couldn't sleep - so I might have rambled a bit

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## Andre (13/11/13)

Not much of a disclaimer in the end if I read this thread correctly, but everyone to his or her own as far as I am concerned.


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## RevnLucky7 (13/11/13)

I can pick up a Rainbow Heaven clone for the hell of it. Do a side by side with my original Ithaka and take it to SA with me. Sure someone here will take it off my hands again. Even their GGTS clone looks great.



Matthee said:


> Not much of a disclaimer in the end if I read this thread correctly, but everyone to his or her own as far as I am concerned.


 
Dericks post might have rattled my opinion slightly. It doesn't mean I'll collect or use them in the future, I'm just curious to see how they hold up.

EDIT: Here's a written review on the GGTS clone:

http://www.vapesquad.com/the-rainbow-heaven-mkb-ts/

And Todds review on the Ithaka clone:

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## CraftyZA (13/11/13)

Do that, and then do a showcase or post about it.
I've got the Fast tech clone that I bought from somebody in cape town. I must say it feels decent. It vapes good. 
Still not going to stop my from buying the real thing next year some time. Just not going to happen soon. When that eventually happens, I can do a side by side as well. 

If I may ask, where do you buy your readywires?
My last batch came from stormy's vapor cellar.

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## Andre (13/11/13)

No worries, RevnLucky7, changing our opinions makes us human. Admitting it takes courage!


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## RevnLucky7 (13/11/13)

CraftyZA said:


> Do that, and then do a showcase or post about it.
> I've got the Fast tech clone that I bought from somebody in cape town. I must say it feels decent. It vapes good.
> Still not going to stop my from buying the real thing next year some time. Just not going to happen soon. When that eventually happens, I can do a side by side as well.
> 
> ...


 
I actually have not even set up iThaka yet. Well I did once. But there was a nut upgrade done to it that I didn't know about. I got the new nut in the spares bag but didn't know what it was for. So I tried my first build and I got lots of gurgling. After reading some info on this I found out that I needed to replace the nut inside the iThaka with the new one. They sent the upgrade out with new purchases. So since I had to join the wires manually (the old twist and wrap around itself method) which took hours I thought screw this and bought myself a wire zapper seen here:



I will get it on Friday and that's when I will try build this thing again properly. Come to think of it I will probably need some 3mm silica for this too. Right now this setup is just standing here on my desk looking like it wants me, but without ready made coils or the zapper I could not care to go join R and NR wires manually and hope I hit the dod on resistance. To answer your question, I don't buy ready made wire

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## CraftyZA (13/11/13)

3mm for duel coil. But look at bishopheals's highlander build. That is what I will do next, however, I'm not going to go 0.2 ohm. That is just insane!I will base the build on 4 x 2 ohm coils. and stick to the aw imr on that. Well within the 10amp limit.

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## RevnLucky7 (13/11/13)

Ok just ordered some 3mm wick. I used 2mm ekowool on my first build and had mayor flooding, but this could be because of many things building that thing for the first time.

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## RevnLucky7 (2/1/14)

I'm rather happy that I get to share some original parts and mods with some of you guys and the response I've been getting to how much difference there is, especially in the build quality, over clones makes me warm and fuzzy inside. The price difference really is justified.

I'm not going to get into the whole to clone or not to clone thing, but I will say this:

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1


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## The Golf (2/1/14)

Personally im agaimst clones purely because its stealing from the original manufacturer. I dont care if its not patented or patent pending, the designer to the time and effort to design the product, respect that!!!!. IMO you stealing from the manufacturer by buying a clone. It you not happy with the product buy something else or do the mod. If e cig manufacturer's have to pay for patents and all the other licenses you will surely see the prices sky rocket.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk


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## The Golf (2/1/14)

Sorry if I upset anyone, just my opinion. Imagine Matthee or stroodel designed and built a product proudly SA how peed of would they or any of us b if we suddenly we see clones popping up

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## Silver (3/1/14)

It takes quite a lot I suppose to register a patent, even more to register it globally.

Policing and enforcing it I assume takes even more effort and cost.

In the fast paced world of vaping, where the kit is evolving very fast at the moment, I can understand all the cloning going on.

I suppose when things settle a bit and a handful of larger more powerful players emerge, then we'll see more patenting and design protection...


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## The Golf (22/1/14)

Iv previously posted that i'm dead against clones. As you may or may not know im the proud owner of the Russian 91% so that kinda negates my previous statements about clones. I still feel that way but it seems to be accepted practice in the industry. People have said they buy clones to try out a product before purchasing the real thing is that a good excuse? There are many arguments, but we, and i'm including myself are supporting an "illegal trade"?????

SOOOO WHERE DO I OR WE GO FROM HERE????


or do we just leave the subject and let it run its own coarse


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## Tom (22/1/14)

the clone discussion is also big in EU, but what does it help for anyone? I personally want to own some originals, but for work or travelling I'd rather have clones. If lost, or damaged, or if it is confiscated by an immigration officer in Dubai or elsewhere....it's not a train smash.
So, imho, both have a place in the vaping world.

edith says: only now I read this thread, what @Derick stated above....I am 100% in agreement!

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## RIEFY (22/1/14)

I am not going to comment on this discussion because im a clone ***** or was atleast






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## Derick (22/1/14)

If the clone is good and is not trying to pass itself off as the real thing, then I don't see a problem

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Silver (22/1/14)

As long as we can all know which clones come close to the originals then we can sort out the "good" clones from the "bad" clones.

But in principle, I prefer owning the real thing if it can be afforded.


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## Zodiac (23/1/14)

The Golf said:


> Iv previously posted that i'm dead against clones. As you may or may not know im the proud owner of the Russian 91% so that kinda negates my previous statements about clones. I still feel that way but it seems to be accepted practice in the industry. People have said they buy clones to try out a product before purchasing the real thing is that a good excuse? There are many arguments, but we, and i'm including myself are supporting an "illegal trade"?????
> 
> SOOOO WHERE DO I OR WE GO FROM HERE????
> 
> ...


@The Golf, it seems you really want to do the right thing, which is so admirable, and i recommend doing it. My advice would be to sell your Russian to me and buy the Kayfun light plus

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## RIEFY (23/1/14)

lol

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## Tw!st3dVaP0r (23/1/14)

Zodiac said:


> @The Golf, it seems you really want to do the right thing, which is so admirable, and i recommend doing it. My advice would be to sell your Russian to me and buy the Kayfun light plus



nooooooooo u cant sell it that would be aiding the clone masters you have to give it away

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## The Golf (23/1/14)

Maybe i should just destroy it,seen as its aiding in the cloning market. NOT


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## RIEFY (23/1/14)

my theory on the russian 91 is that it is not a clone. kebo design and launched the russian with airflow before svoemesto soin theory the kayfun lite plus is a clone of the russian. I dont know if I made any sense lol

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## Tw!st3dVaP0r (23/1/14)

Cape vaping supplies said:


> my theory on the russian 91 is that it is not a clone. kebo design and launched the russian with airflow before svoemesto soin theory the kayfun lite plus is a clone of the russian. I dont know if I made any sense lol
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk HD



true and in noway did they steal the logo or anything like that , i think of it as jeans a jeans is a jeans then u get Levi and Guess and cheap no name brands, u pay for the quality and the Russian is not cheap so id compare it to Levi and guess competing , its not your flea market "levi" ( those are the clones we should avoid) 

if any of that makes sense at all

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## Zodiac (23/1/14)

I think i remember someone posting that the original designers of the Kayfun split, and thats how the Russian was born. I didn't do any research on that myself, so i cant confirm this.


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## The Golf (23/1/14)

lol ok ok i was kidding about destroying it  but i do agree CVS when the Russian came out yes was marketed as a clone with a difference, so the same as the Kayfun but with air control, so in essence its not really a clone, because the 3.1 came later.


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## SunRam (23/1/14)

I will shamelessly state that I use ALOT of clones, mech mods, drippers, kayfuns, rockets etc. IMHO the ones I own are all just as good as the original, at a fraction of the price. Especially with the mechs, the clones are generally very good. I can not see myself spending $150 for a real Nemesis or Chi You, if I can get a clone for $20. But each to their own, respect if you can buy lots of mechs and drippers for 100's of dollars, but myself, and lots of others just can not afford it. I will rather have 6 clones, than 1 original. Love it or hate it, the clones will never go away as long as their is a country called China

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