# Need help with battery safety - Sigelei 150w



## WHITELABEL (18/3/15)

Hi Guys,

Please can someone just double check me here.





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So I'm using 2x married Sumsung 2500 mAh INR18650-25R with a continuous rating of 20A. So according to steam engine I can run my sigelei at the full 150w safely as long as I build above 0.375 ohms?


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## huffnpuff (18/3/15)

Amp limit should be 40

Reactions: Disagree 2


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## John (18/3/15)

huffnpuff said:


> Amp limit should be 40


Hey man, please explain how that works? I always assumed the amp draw on two batteries would be the same as on one. Erring on the side of caution if you will, but would like to know how it works

Reactions: Agree 1


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## WHITELABEL (18/3/15)

My understanding is that if it's a series mod the amp limit stays the same, if the mod is in parallel then the amp limit doubles?

Reactions: Agree 3 | Thanks 1


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## zadiac (18/3/15)

John said:


> Hey man, please explain how that works? I always assumed the amp draw on two batteries would be the same as on one. Erring on the side of caution if you will, but would like to know how it works



Check here http://www.ecigssa.co.za/what-batteries-are-recommended.t9768/page-2#post-198464

Ohm Johan describes it best there

Edit: 

Series connection increase potential (Voltage), but current (Amps) the same as for 1 battery.
Parallel connection increase current (Amps), but potential (Voltage) the same as for 1 battery.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## Jakey (18/3/15)

i always thought that on a mod like the sig150 u fire whatever u want and let the safety features do its thing

Reactions: Agree 2


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## WHITELABEL (18/3/15)

Jakey said:


> i always thought that on a mod like the sig150 u fire whatever u want and let the safety features do its thing


Yeah that's what I thought too until recently.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Jakey (18/3/15)

snap. i was running 0.2 build for like a week on my sig


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## WHITELABEL (18/3/15)

Jakey said:


> snap. i was running 0.2 build for like a week on my sig


What batteries you using?


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## Riaz (18/3/15)

I would also presume that an electronic mod would not fire beyond its capabilities


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## Jakey (18/3/15)

VTC4's and 2500MAH efests


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## Jakey (18/3/15)

isnt the point of the reg mods to only fire within its capabilities? else we might as well hit it hard with mechs

Reactions: Agree 1


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## zadiac (18/3/15)

Riaz said:


> I would also presume that an electronic mod would not fire beyond its capabilities



The sigelei only limits your ohms on your build. I think .15 ohm or something like that.


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## WHITELABEL (18/3/15)

The VTC4's do 30A continuous though right? I've also read that you should marry the batteries and make sure they both the same brand.


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## WHITELABEL (18/3/15)

zadiac said:


> The sigelei only limits your ohms on your build. I think .15 ohm or something like that.


The 150w says it will fire down to 0.1


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## Dr Phil (18/3/15)

Lol was talking about this in the morning. I rate a 0.10ohm build will not do a true 150w on the device it's tweaked down


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## zadiac (18/3/15)

Yeah, didn't know that. I have the 100w and I think it's .15 ohm. Not sure. But yeah, that and battery drain is the only limitation afaik. It cuts off if the battery reaches certain volts.


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## VandaL (18/3/15)

> From what I understand, the batteries are running in series, which means the voltage output is doubled, but amp limit and mAh are the same. So no, .1 resistance @150 watts would pull roughly 39-40 amps.
> 
> You would be pushing roughly 3.9 volts @ .1 ohms to achieve 150 watts, so 3.9v/.1ohms=39 amps
> 
> Samsung 25Rs are rated at 20 amp continuous. Even the Sonys are supposedly 30 amp continuous. I don't think there is an 18650 battery with a high enough amp rating to run 150 watts on a .1 ohm build.



Soure REDDIT, seemed like the best answer. From what I understand the 25Rs handle burst amprage up to 50-60amps which is around 5s of draw while continuous is around 20a.

I believe there is a German reviewer who tested a whole bunch of devices and at super high wattages on 25R batteries the IPV3 gave a true power rating of 151w on a 0.2ohm coil @ 165w. The sig 150 was not there but I'm guessing it will also be around 140w or so when displaying 150w.


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## Jakey (18/3/15)

yeh i meant vtc4's and efests but two of each, rotate them in a pair. sorry i wasnt clear

Reactions: Like 1


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## WHITELABEL (18/3/15)

VandaL said:


> Soure REDDIT, seemed like the best answer. From what I understand the 25Rs handle burst amprage up to 50-60amps which is around 5s of draw while continuous is around 20a.
> 
> I believe there is a German reviewer who tested a whole bunch of devices and at super high wattages on 25R batteries the IPV3 gave a true power rating of 151w on a 0.2ohm coil @ 165w. The sig 150 was not there but I'm guessing it will also be around 140w or so when displaying 150w.


So it doesn't really matter what batteries I use? The device will just fire lower if the batteries are not powerful enough?


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## Jakey (18/3/15)

as far as i know, and will cut off if you get to a point where its not safe to use


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## VandaL (18/3/15)

Gambit said:


> So it doesn't really matter what batteries I use? The device will just fire lower if the batteries are not powerful enough?


25R's seem to power all the high power regulated devices no problem, If the batteries are unable to deliver the power then the device will display "check battery." That's the beauty of a regualted mod, it removes 90% of the guess work. If the chip on the device gets too hot it will not fire. The Yihi SX chips seem very safe, I have not heard of anyone venting batteries in a yihi powered device (although I have not looked). Don't worry bud, if you have LG HE4,Sony VTC 3/4/5, Samsung 25R they will all power your high wattage device no problem

Reactions: Thanks 1 | Informative 1


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## Jakey (18/3/15)

well i dont know about firing lower. think it will fire to what you set it at. depending on how accurate the device is. heard the sig150 starts going a bit off (not much) at lower ohms and higher watts

Reactions: Thanks 1


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## WHITELABEL (18/3/15)

Cool thanks guys. Think I'm going to stick around 0.4 just to be safe.


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## Jakey (18/3/15)

hehe cool man but read up more about it. if u like .2 builds u might be cutting yourself short as from what i know its all good.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Thanks 1


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## Andre (18/3/15)

My understanding is the same as stated in your original post @Gambit. 

I have seen it bandied around that the device will cut out or something if the discharge rating of the battery is too low for the device or the battery heats up too much. In the case of your Sigelei the limit for amp draw is 40A - my logic tells me the Sigelei will allow amp draw up to 40W then. So, for your Samsung 25R, that is above the continuous discharge rating, which is generally accepted as being the rating to base safety on. There is no current standard on pulse discharge rating - some base it on 1 second pulses, some on longer pulses. If the battery overheats should there not be some sort of temperature sensing inside of the device? If so, I have not heard of it.

All in all, I think you are sensible in your decision to stay around 0.4 ohms with the Samsungs if you intend to go high wattage.

Reactions: Like 1 | Thanks 1 | Informative 1


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## WHeunis (18/3/15)

Gambit said:


> So it doesn't really matter what batteries I use? The device will just fire lower if the batteries are not powerful enough?



Most regulated mods worth a damn in use today will monitor the input it receives from the battery pretty closely. When it senses that the battery just can't keep up, it will cut out and display a battery error.

That being said, the damage to the battery might already be done. No mod is ever so safe that it cant/wont damage your batteries if the batteries cant handle the load.
Batteries do not have self preservation mechanisms. They will try as hell to provide as much as they can without any regard to their own survival. Sure, some batteries have fuses strapped in, but thats the extent of it...
If a battery is indeed putting out more than it should/can, internally it will start to chemically create metallic compounds. Those metallic compounds, once formed is permanent. Those same metallics can cause an internal short to occur.

At that point, whether youre firing it or not is inconsequential. That battery could be laying in a drawer doing nothing and simply start internally shorting. Venting, fire, explosions, whatever is imminent.

So yes, regulated mods try to protect us.
But no, that does not mean we get to ignore any and all safety measures and forget ohm's laws altogether.
Play safe, regardless of what a mod allows or doesn't allow.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Thanks 2


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## Jakey (18/3/15)

sjoe @WHeunis i kak myself every time i see a post from you. that pic man lol.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## WHeunis (18/3/15)

Jakey said:


> sjoe @WHeunis i kak myself every time i see a post from you. that pic man lol.









If the forum accepted animated avitars I woudve used that 1

Reactions: Funny 3


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## yuganp (18/3/15)

Batteries are connected in series so the voltage will be doubled ie. 8.4v freshly charged.

You can use one of the above formulas to work out the current drain.

E.g. I (amps) = Power / volts
150W/8.4V = 17.85 Amps

As the battery is used the voltage drops so if the voltage is at 3.7v the current is
150W/7.4V = 20.27 Amps

This does not take into account the voltage drop from the mod.

Also I don't think that resistance matters as much on regulated devices as the device will adjust the voltage to get to the power.


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## zadiac (18/3/15)

Andre said:


> My understanding is the same as stated in your original post @Gambit.
> 
> I have seen it bandied around that the device will cut out or something if the discharge rating of the battery is too low for the device or the battery heats up too much. In the case of your Sigelei the limit for amp draw is 40A - my logic tells me the Sigelei will allow amp draw up to 40W then. So, for your Samsung 25R, that is above the continuous discharge rating, which is generally accepted as being the rating to base safety on. There is no current standard on pulse discharge rating - some base it on 1 second pulses, some on longer pulses. If the battery overheats should there not be some sort of temperature sensing inside of the device? If so, I have not heard of it.
> 
> All in all, I think you are sensible in your decision to stay around 0.4 ohms with the Samsungs if you intend to go high wattage.



I'm not sure about the Sigelei 150W, but the 100W is in series, not parallel, so the amps of the batteries remains at 20amps, it's the voltage that increase. This is according to the post @johan made in the thread I mentioned earlier.


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## Andre (18/3/15)

Jakey said:


> sjoe @WHeunis i kak myself every time i see a post from you. that pic man lol.


Lol, yours does not inspire much confidence either.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Jakey (18/3/15)

did u open mine up though hehe

Reactions: Like 1


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## Jakey (18/3/15)

and @Andre i look to my left, see my Reo and smile every time i see yours

Reactions: Like 1


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## Andre (18/3/15)

Jakey said:


> did u open mine up though hehe


Yes, I did....the monster seems over excited to eat the human....food is on the table!


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## Jakey (18/3/15)

hahaha, thats one way of looking at it.

Reactions: Like 1


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## huffnpuff (18/3/15)

huffnpuff said:


> Amp limit should be 40


Thanks guys, I stand corrected. Had some "Doh!" logic going on for some reason

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ashley A (18/3/15)

Jakey said:


> snap. i was running 0.2 build for like a week on my sig


And what happened? 

Been reading a lot of reviews and discussions this past week that say that the purple Efest and Vappower with 35A continuous discharge rate are actually re-wrapped Samsung 25R (Smurfs).

Using the Smurfs in my Sigelei 100w+ & don't have any problems. Actually bought 2 more for my KUI. I just feel safer with them. Maybe it's brand loyalty...


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## Jakey (18/3/15)

Ashley A said:


> And what happened?
> 
> Been reading a lot of reviews and discussions this past week that say that the purple Efest and Vappower with 35A continuous discharge rate are actually re-wrapped Samsung 25R (Smurfs).
> 
> Using the Smurfs in my Sigelei 100w+ & don't have any problems. Actually bought 2 more for my KUI. I just feel safer with them. Maybe it's brand loyalty...


Nothing bad happened, worked perfectly, but going by what ive read, dont know if any damage was done to the batteries


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