# What is this stuff?



## Johnny2Puffs (10/2/15)

Is my R600 worth of juice spoiled? Just after adding 10% menthol concentrate and shaking the bottles they got cloudy and lumpy.


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## Rotten_Bunny (10/2/15)

Dude im not even going to venture into a guess what happened here. Because i know something aint right 

Rotten Bunny.

Vape the Planet !


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## zadiac (10/2/15)

Throw it away. If something doesn't look right (e-juice wise) then it probably isn't. I won't risk it.


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## Alex (10/2/15)

I get the cloudy part, but the lumps? I have no clue.


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## BumbleBee (10/2/15)

Maybe one of our juice experts can help, @Derick, @Oupa, @drew, any ideas?


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## Silver (10/2/15)

Johnny2Puffs said:


> Is my R600 worth of juice spoiled? Just after adding 10% menthol concentrate and shaking the bottles they got cloudy and lumpy.
> View attachment 21187



Where did you get the ingredients @Johnny2Puffs ?
Still stuff from SA?


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## Derick (11/2/15)

BumbleBee said:


> Maybe one of our juice experts can help, @Derick, @Oupa, @drew, any ideas?


That is certainly very odd and concerning.

We've played a lot with PG/VG ratios and a lot with menthol and I have never seen that happen - there isn't even anything in either PG, VG or menthol that can make it go cloudy, never mind lumps!

So one(or more) of the three ingredients are not what it claims to be - or have an additive that is causing that - either way, I wouldn't bring that near my lungs if I was you

EDIT: Mind telling us where you got it?

Reactions: Like 2


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## Marzuq (11/2/15)

Kinda looks like wood glue.
send it back to the supplier and demand a refund on all items

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Richio (11/2/15)

If im not mistaken menthol is extracted and then stored in a crystal form. When these crystals are warmed, they move to a liquid form and when exposed to humidity, they lump up trying to go back to there original form. Try warming the liquid abit and see if it helps. I can't comment on the safety of smoking the liquid in its current form though.


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## kimbo (11/2/15)

Richio said:


> exposed to humidity,




Maybe @Johnny2Puffs add some distilled water in the mix and now the menthol is acting up?


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## Derick (11/2/15)

Richio said:


> If im not mistaken menthol is extracted and then stored in a crystal form. When these crystals are warmed, they move to a liquid form and when exposed to humidity, they lump up trying to go back to there original form. Try warming the liquid abit and see if it helps. I can't comment on the safety of smoking the liquid in its current form though.


The menthol crystals can reform yes, but not into lumps - they will just reform into menthol crystals again - which will probably sink to the bottom.

Also to get them to reform you have to throw a serious amount of crystals vs PG/VG and get it very cold. I've thrown in 80% Menthol crystals to 20% PG and even that doesn't reform into crystals.

Plus that black stuff at the top of the bottle does not look like anything I've ever seen in either menthol or PG/VG

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Oupa (11/2/15)

Agree with @Derick . Nothing in PG, VG or Menthol that should cause that. Something definitely not right in that mix.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Oupa (11/2/15)

Not sure that it is black stuff at the top, it looks more like curdling and the shadows make it look dark/black. The label underneath says Totallywicked-eliquid, so I assume the ingedients or some of it was sourced from them? Have you tried contacting them?


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## Stephen Rowley (11/2/15)

Dam, that looks hectic, sour milk,


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## WHITELABEL (11/2/15)

You sure the bottle was clean? Maybe mix up another smaller batch and see if it does the same thing?


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## Arthster (11/2/15)

Dude generaly speaking anything with lumps are bad

This includes but not limited to milk, fruit juice, jelly and under rods.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 6


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## Johnny2Puffs (12/2/15)

I got this from a Polish website. They get their stuff from the USA and are very popular here in the EU.
Since I posted, the bottles have cleared with only half cloudy now and the bottom is clear.
I have contacted the supplier but no response yet.
I made an experiment by mixing a 30ml bottle of pure VG with a few drops of menthol and it became cloudy.
The menthol concentrate is from The PerfumersApprentice USA.


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## drew (14/2/15)

Hey @Johnny2Puffs. At first glance I thought it looked properly dodgy but zooming in on the pic it isn't actually black on top, it's just shadow where you can see through the bottle. The menthol is definitely turning back into crystals, probably lumpy because the concentrate was made from finely crushed crystals.

Were your PG/VG by any chance stored in the fridge and cold when you made the mix? (Menthol doesn't like the cold) A hot bath and a good shake will help with that.

What concerns me is the amount of crystals! 10% menthol is pretty high for a finished liquid (you must have lungs of steel) combine that with the high VG ratio, it's possible that the liquid might be saturated and no more crytals are dissolving.

Reactions: Like 2 | Informative 1


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## Johnny2Puffs (14/2/15)

I don't quite get that as the concentrate was in a PG base and was liquid. I diluted it in PG and VG so how can it become more saturated?

That white sludge on top has a waxy texture and smells strongly of menthol. Today I heated it up to 50C and it became clear. left it for 30 mins and the result is in the pic. The top is menthol as I smelled and tasted it. It does not mix with oil base nor with water. 
I syphoned it off and it looked good and stayed clear but when I shook the bottles, they once again became white and a new crust formed on the top.


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## Johnny2Puffs (14/2/15)

I have sent The Perfumer Apprentice an email about this problem as the concentrate was acquired from them and hopefully I will get a reply next week. 
I don't want to chuck out 300ml of juice.


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## ET (14/2/15)

Johnny2Puffs said:


> Is my R600 worth of juice spoiled? Just after adding 10% menthol concentrate and shaking the bottles they got cloudy and lumpy.
> View attachment 21187



menthol not meth right?

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Johnny2Puffs (16/2/15)

Got a reply today from the manufacturer of the menthol concentrate, The Perfumers Apprentice.
She said that menthol does not mix well in VG and not at all in water. My mix was 70% VG in which I had 10% water. The 10% menthol was too high for the small amount of PG (30%) and the PG became saturated with menthol so the rest formed a white sludge with the VG and water then drifted to the top.

Reactions: Informative 5


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## Luke5533 (16/2/15)

@Johnny2Puffs that blows, i guess you're going to have to throw out 300ml worth of flavour


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## Johnny2Puffs (16/2/15)

Not quite as it is already mixed to a total of 300 ml. I keep warming it up until it is clear and let it cool down then syphon off the clear liquid. Maybe I'm onto a very good juice here not unlike making mampoer.

Reactions: Like 1


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## drew (16/2/15)

Luke5533 said:


> @Johnny2Puffs that blows, i guess you're going to have to throw out 300ml worth of flavour



No need to waste, sure it can be fixed. The calculations I've done are based on a 100ml quantity to remain 4mg and change the ratio to 50/50.

Per 100ml: 
Add 4.5ml 36mg 100% PG Nicotine
Add 35.5ml 100% PG
The result will be 4mg 50/50 with a menthol concentration of 7.1%.

Still no guarantee that 7.1% menthol will be soluble with 50/50 as I have never tried it that high but might be worth a go.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Johnny2Puffs (16/2/15)

Thanks drew. I will try that when my next shipment comes in. Will let you know.


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## Alex (16/2/15)

Such an interesting thread, glad you got the answers @Johnny2Puffs.


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## Johnny2Puffs (16/2/15)

Alex said:


> Such an interesting thread, glad you got the answers @Johnny2Puffs.


Thanks. I just sent the supplier in Poland the response from The Perfumers Apprentice and will wait for the reply. If I get one. I am sure that they have their rubber gloves on and are checking it out by now.


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## Johnny2Puffs (17/2/15)

Response was. Add 5% alcohol and keep it in a dark place. Do not add too much menthol concentrate. Rather little by little.

I have always added 20% PG menthol concentrate to my TotallyWicked juices as they recommended with great results. I did ask Ego2.pl how much to add and the reply was 15 to 20%. So I started with 10% and it was too much it seems.


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