# Perception of power



## Stranger (10/5/22)

Without going into all the nitty gritty specs, and just working on your own perception ....... what mods seem to be managing the power best.

I recently got a Grus, this seems to eat power in comparison to two of my other 21700 mods. Using the same Intake solo with a 0.3 build fused staggered clapton, I have to set the W to 28 to get the vape that I like. The Jelly box single does the same thing at 26 W.

A 21700 molicell in the Grus will last from around 8 am to 4 pm. The jelly box will give me another half an hour on that. 

Best of all is the OBS engine mod that will give at least a full hour more than the Grus using the same tank and also at 26 W

Hardly scientific I know but it is first hand experience and plays a part in which mod you use at any one time

Reactions: Like 5


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## DarthBranMuffin (10/5/22)

Going back to the https://www.ecigssa.co.za/threads/different-chipsets-giving-different-resistances.73757/ thread the same can be said about power output.

Simple example: using a Nevoks Veego 80 with the 510 adapter and a Vertex RTA I had to up the power from my usual 15W on a YiHi or DNA board to 20W+ to get the same performance out of the coil. 

I am a bit spoiled rotten with the DNA's and YiHi's and have found it difficult to replace it with a "stock" board on any other device.

Don't get me started on the Voopoo devices, but the Drag S/X/X Pro/Max/3 were all lacking on power delivery and I had to compensate on all of them to get to the performance I liked on other devices.

As far as I know the newer Lost Vape devices (Thelema/Cyborg) have got the revised Quest board in which is a close match to DNA devices, but I have not mustered the courage to test it out in comparison to what I like. 

So for that I am sticking to my DNA75C Converted Grus, DNA40 Pandora, YiHi Phantom and Noisy Cricket V2 for performance.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## Stranger (10/5/22)

Just for fun I put a fresh 40T in the Grus and switched to VV. @3V it is performing as I want it. I suspect that the Grus does not have an initial boost and the other two do.

Reactions: Like 4


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## vicTor (10/5/22)

thought it was an eskom thread, at first

Reactions: Funny 8


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## Paul33 (10/5/22)

vicTor said:


> thought it was an eskom thread, at first


that would have been the illusion of power

Reactions: Funny 8


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## Stranger (10/5/22)

vicTor said:


> thought it was an eskom thread, at first


What would you know ? the only chips your stuff knows is if you eat Lay's while you vape.

Reactions: Funny 6


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## vicTor (10/5/22)

Stranger said:


> What would you know ? the only chips your stuff knows is if you eat Lay's while you vape.

Reactions: Funny 4


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## Grand Guru (10/5/22)

I agree with @DarthBranMuffin . Most of the cheap mods will give you different variations of output and resistance reading but the difference is usually less than significant so in my opinion they are still worth the money if you compare them with the much more expensive DNA and Yihi devices. 2 Watts up or down , 30 minutes more or less… I don’t even keep track of that since I usually rotate 3 devices throughout the day.

Reactions: Like 5 | Agree 2


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## Munro31 (10/5/22)

It's also components, more expensive boards have better components and with that it's more efficient on power usage. BUT is it worth buying a DNA/Yihi chip? For me, it's not really. But when it comes to WANT, I definitely do want it!

Reactions: Like 7


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## Puff the Magic Dragon (10/5/22)

I view it the same way as @Grand Guru .

The bar graph below is for the Drag 3. 

You only get huge differences at very high wattages, which I don't use. Anything below 85W is fairly accurate. 

I usually vape around 50W

Reactions: Like 4


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## Timwis (10/5/22)

Grand Guru said:


> much more expensive DNA and Yihi devices




The YiHi Chipsets are not expensive, yes the SXMini devices can be but that's YiHi's high end brand! Vsticking, Pioneer4You etc devices are no more expensive than decent Geekvape or Vaporesso mods!

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 1


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## Grand Guru (10/5/22)

Timwis said:


> The YiHi Chipsets are not expensive, yes the SXMini devices can be but that's YiHi's high end brand! Vsticking, Pioneer4You etc devices are no more expensive than decent Geekvape or Vaporesso mods!


You're definitely right... I was having the SX mini devices in mind.

Reactions: Like 4


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## NOOB (11/5/22)

In my opinion, it all boils down to the chip. I have an Odin DNA 250c and it's WAY more power-efficient than any of my other devices. The batteries in my other devices tend to run down a lot quicker when in use or left to sit on the shelf for a couple of days, whereas with the Odin, there hardly seems to be any noticeable difference.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Puff the Magic Dragon (12/5/22)

NOOB said:


> WAY more power-efficient than any of my other devices


This kind of definitive claim is what we need.

The only question is what is meant by "way more" and how this is determined? I'm happy to accept this as just another vaping opinion, but some accuracy is required for it to be significant.

If it amounts to about fifteen per cent then it would not be sufficient for me to justify the extra outlay given that the cost of the DNA mod is 100 + per cent higher DNA Thelema R 2 600, Thelema Quest R 990).

To be honest I don't know how this could easily be calculated. What mod would it be compared to? Somewhere out there there must be a non- DNA mod that represents the average power efficiency. If one could find this mod how would it be tested against the DNA mod?

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## Raindance (12/5/22)

Puff the Magic Dragon said:


> This kind of definitive claim is what we need.
> 
> The only question is what is meant by "way more" and how this is determined? I'm happy to accept this as just another vaping opinion, but some accuracy is required for it to be significant.
> 
> ...


The answer lies right before us. If it costs 1.6 times more, it stands to reason that it is 1.6 times better.

Regards

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 4


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## Stranger (12/5/22)



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## ivc_mixer (12/5/22)

Raindance said:


> The answer lies right before us. If it costs 1.6 times more, it stands to reason that it is 1.6 times better.
> 
> Regards


No wonder Rob's Stratums perform so well!

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## ivc_mixer (12/5/22)

Puff the Magic Dragon said:


> To be honest I don't know how this could easily be calculated. What mod would it be compared to? Somewhere out there there must be a non- DNA mod that represents the average power efficiency. If one could find this mod how would it be tested against the DNA mod?


It will all be down to perception, even with slight scientific working.

What one could do is take a single tank, test it on 3, 4 or 5 different mods with a brand new battery (-ies if dual mods are chosen), run a puff counter and see how many puffs you get off each mod for a complete battery charge (without changing wicking). Run this test about 2-3 times per mod to get a average but using the same batteries on all the tests, so while they charge you cannot continue the test.

The perception part comes in that some of your puffs may be longer, or shorter, than others but on average a single vaper usually draws the same approximate amount of time on a single puff. And with 5 mods, 3 tests per mod, it means those batteries will be charged 15 times (including initial charge right after you buy them to ensure they're full) and will not have dropped that much in terms of overall usage so should get you a decent calculation.

I think this may be a good way to start off unless someone more technical than me can think of something else?

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## Puff the Magic Dragon (12/5/22)

ivc_mixer said:


> It will all be down to perception, even with slight scientific working.
> 
> What one could do is take a single tank, test it on 3, 4 or 5 different mods with a brand new battery (-ies if dual mods are chosen), run a puff counter and see how many puffs you get off each mod for a complete battery charge (without changing wicking). Run this test about 2-3 times per mod to get a average but using the same batteries on all the tests, so while they charge you cannot continue the test.
> 
> ...



Yup. Not easy

I like your method. 

You determine your average non-DNA efficiency mod by using five mods. Your suggestion of puffs per discharge could be refined further by stopping at a set voltage in all the mods because not all mods stop at the same voltage (perhaps the DNA cutoff). As you say, the average time of puff should even out. The tester should also not know which mod is the DNA one.

It's a complex test which I'm not willing to undertake (insert lazy insult here). As you say, there may be a technically minded fundi who knows of an easier test.

My suspicion is that if the difference in efficiency was substantial it would be regularly used in the marketing blurb.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Stranger (12/5/22)

@vicTor does not have puff counters. OOPS my bad, yes he does. Each time he takes a puff a new hair grows on his chin. @JurgensSt grows another mm

Reactions: Funny 5


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## Stranger (12/5/22)

Stranger said:


> Without going into all the nitty gritty specs, and just working on your own perception ....... what mods seem to be managing the power best.


Just saying

Reactions: Like 1


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## DarthBranMuffin (12/5/22)

all devices are equal, some are just more equal than others... 

There is no way of pinpointing a device that is the best performer, nor that the said device will perform best for you. 

I would say get your hands on a DNA250C device and work your way from there, or just keep it and not try anything else after that, depending on what your perception is after you have used one extensively.

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## Raindance (12/5/22)

Puff the Magic Dragon said:


> Yup. Not easy
> 
> I like your method.
> 
> ...


Puff, with all respect, Rob has spoken. Ok?

Regards

Reactions: Funny 1


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## NOOB (12/5/22)

There might just be a few too many variables to test this accurately.
The mileage I get vs. what you get will be dictated by things like:
Batteries - new vs. old, married vs not married, single vs dual,
Coil(s) - coil material (Ni80, SS, Kanthal), inner diameter, single vs. dual, ohms etc.

We'd need to test this on similar devices (for instance Odin DNA 250 vs Odin 200), to ensure both devices use 21700's, with the same atomizer, using the exact same coil(s). Obviously the above does not take into account the duration of your hit vs. mine or preference. You might prefer dual coils where I prefer single coils etc.

It's probably not impossible to test something like this, I'm just not sure if it's worth the headache.

If memory serves correctly, I recall reading an article which stated that DNA chips are rated at 95% power efficiency in terms of the amount of power they deliver from the battery to the coil. This translates to a more accurate 28W being delivered to the coil than other devices. I stand to be corrected on this by those more educated on the matter that I am, but this was the gist of the article and I just recalled it from the archives in the impassable maze that is known as my mind

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## DarthBranMuffin (12/5/22)

NOOB said:


> There might just be a few too many variables to test this accurately.
> The mileage I get vs. what you get will be dictated by things like:
> Batteries - new vs. old, married vs not married, single vs dual,
> Coil(s) - coil material (Ni80, SS, Kanthal), inner diameter, single vs. dual, ohms etc.
> ...



The tech sheets says one thing, but a thread on the EVOLV forum says another (but with ample variables as well).



https://downloads.evolvapor.com/dna250color.pdf





https://downloads.evolvapor.com/dna250.pdf





https://downloads.evolvapor.com/dna200.pdf
 




https://downloads.evolvapor.com/dna75color.pdf





https://downloads.evolvapor.com/dna75.pdf





https://downloads.evolvapor.com/dna60.pdf





https://downloads.evolvapor.com/dna40.pdf





https://downloads.evolvapor.com/dna25.pdf









Efficiency 85%??


I wonder if it's a typographic error in the specification sheet or really Evolv has reduced its quality and efficiency of the chip is only 85% . It is surprising because Evolv indicates an efficiency of 97 % in its DNA200 chip.In addition, the mod ( HCigar VT75 ) literally eats batteries and have...




forum.evolvapor.com

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## NOOB (12/5/22)

Ah-Ha... fine marketing skills strike again! 
In all honesty though, I got the Odin DNA 250c because I like the aesthetics of the device and because I wanted a DNA device. The fact that it does not consume battery power is a bonus in my opinion.

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## Puff the Magic Dragon (13/5/22)

Thank goodness we can still have decent discussions on Ecigssa. Take a look at the "discussion" on the Evolv DNA Forum that @DarthBranMuffin quoted from.

I was going to suggest that reading it is good for a laugh but in reality, it is profoundly sad.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## NOOB (13/5/22)

Puff the Magic Dragon said:


> Thank goodness we can still have decent discussions on Ecigssa. Take a look at the "discussion" on the Evolv DNA Forum that @DarthBranMuffin quoted from.
> 
> I was going to suggest that reading it is good for a laugh but in reality, it is profoundly sad.


Had a brief look last night, very sad indeed. I enjoy the discussions we have on Ecigssa and the respect we have for one another's opinions on various matters.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Stranger (13/5/22)

One interesting point is that some devices drain when left on overnight. To be honest I have not noticed if any of mine do this.

Puma... no
Mechman tube ... no
Manto ... no
Manto max ... no
Jelly box ... no
OBS engine mod ... no
Pico dual ... no
Grus ... not that I have noticed so far
NCV2 ... no
MVV II ... no

Non of my mechs do it


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