# Am I on the right track / Am I understanding this correctly?



## wondergryphon (4/9/17)

Hi guys

So I'm finally getting ready to making my own juice and I've found a recipe for a flavor I enjoy a lot. I just want to make sure I'm understanding things correctly:







If I'm understanding this correctly, I've made the following assumptions:

I'm making 30ml of 80/20 juice at 3mg nic
To make my 30ml, I'm going to use a scale and add
2.5g nic
2.29g pg
22.75g vg
... + my flavors
IE the question here is that I'm assuming those ML values can be changed to Gram values (based on the recipe showing the same values for ml + gram)

With that all mixed, I'm going to then shake it around vigorously and let steep for a couple days...

Is that basically it?

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## Andre (4/9/17)

For VG and PG there are specific weights, which you should be able to set in your juice calculator as a once off. It is not a straight ml to gram conversion. I, and many others, use this calculator.
Check out this video for more details.

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## wondergryphon (4/9/17)

Well placed banner by ValleyVapour on this post got me ordering from them  

Have I forgotten anything that I'll likely need - bearing in mind this is my first time? I just have a normal digital food scale, is that accurate enough?

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## RichJB (4/9/17)

Be aware that NF Key Lime might be very different from the TFA used in the original recipe. Same thing with FW Pie Crust being different from TFA.

Does your scale go down to two decimal points? Food scales usually don't in my experience. I also don't think the Erlenmeyer flask is necessary. When mixing by weight, you can mix straight into the dropper bottles. A flask might be a good idea if you are going to shake the mix on a magnetic stirrer.

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## TheV (4/9/17)

Also please note your Key Lime Pie recipe you worked with PG Nic but your order I see is VG Nic. Make sure you don't get that mixed up

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## wondergryphon (4/9/17)

RichJB said:


> Be aware that NF Key Lime might be very different from the TFA used in the original recipe. Same thing with FW Pie Crust being different from TFA.
> 
> Does your scale go down to two decimal points? Food scales usually don't in my experience. I also don't think the Erlenmeyer flask is necessary. When mixing by weight, you can mix straight into the dropper bottles. A flask might be a good idea if you are going to shake the mix on a magnetic stirrer.



Great feedback, thank you. Yeah good point - can mix straight into the bottles.

I just assumed that 'TFA' was to 'NF', what 'Cadbury' is to 'Beacon' - different brands of the same thing. Is that not the case? Are they very different flavors actually?

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## wondergryphon (4/9/17)

TheV said:


> Also please note your Key Lime Pie recipe you worked with PG Nic but your order I see is VG Nic. Make sure you don't get that mixed up



Thanks @TheV. Will that make _that_ much of a difference flavor wise? IE If i'm after a stronger VG mix, can I not just use VG nic instead of PG nic? Whats the diffs there?

Again, this is all my first time with this stuff... So I don't know if juice mixing is like cooking - where you can substitute here + there and make it work, or if its more like baking, where every precise mg of something makes a difference...

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## David Pilkington (4/9/17)

Just need to point out that mg -> ml conversion only applies to water. The density of other liquids vary so you normally cannot apply that to e-liquid components.

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## TheV (4/9/17)

wondergryphon said:


> Thanks @TheV. Will that make _that_ much of a difference flavor wise? IE If i'm after a stronger VG mix, can I not just use VG nic instead of PG nic? Whats the diffs there?
> 
> Again, this is all my first time with this stuff... So I don't know if juice mixing is like cooking - where you can substitute here + there and make it work, or if its more like baking, where every precise mg of something makes a difference...


The problem is it will skew your target percentages. You are aiming for a specific VG PG ratio to start with. Best actually get what you are aiming for.
The concentrates (including brands), percentages and ratios all play a very critical role contributing to the end product.
That is not to say you can't experiment and try different things, that is half of the fun.
But if your process is not accurate and correct you never really know what you are aiming for.

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## RichJB (4/9/17)

wondergryphon said:


> I just assumed that 'TFA' was to 'NF', what 'Cadbury' is to 'Beacon' - different brands of the same thing. Is that not the case? Are they very different flavors actually?



Very much so, yes. It is one of the confounding things of DIY that flavours generally can't be substituted with other brands. It's why DIYers will end up with seven or eight different strawberry flavours, for example, when you'd think one or two would suffice.

It's not just the different taste, the brands have different concentration strengths too. Flavorah Alpine Strawberry is incredibly strong at 0.5%, TFA Strawberry Ripe is only moderately strong at 4%. So if you subbed Alpine for Ripe at the same percentage, you'd be in for a surprise when you tasted the juice.

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## Andre (4/9/17)

wondergryphon said:


> Thanks @TheV. Will that make _that_ much of a difference flavor wise? IE If i'm after a stronger VG mix, can I not just use VG nic instead of PG nic? Whats the diffs there?
> 
> Again, this is all my first time with this stuff... So I don't know if juice mixing is like cooking - where you can substitute here + there and make it work, or if its more like baking, where every precise mg of something makes a difference...


Nic in VG is difficult to work with. You have really got to shake the hell out of it to get the nic to be consistent throughout. Most DIYers use Nic in PG, which you still have to shake well, but not that well.

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## Apollo (4/9/17)

wondergryphon said:


> Hi guys
> 
> So I'm finally getting ready to making my own juice and I've found a recipe for a flavor I enjoy a lot. I just want to make sure I'm understanding things correctly:
> 
> ...



General rule of thumb:

Weight of PG: 1.038 grams per ml
Weight of VG: 1.26 grams per ml
Nicotine:

Weight of 36mg in PG: 1.036992 grams per ml
Weight of 36mg in VG: 1.251 grams per ml
Also, You need to make sure all your values are entered correctly, I see on your "Skye Blue" screen snip you entered a 50/50 ratio on the NIC base in stead of 100/0 (either towards PG or VG) which might affect your recipe somewhat

I highly suggest reading this thread on Reddit, especially of you are a first time DIYer:

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## wondergryphon (4/9/17)

Apollo said:


> I highly suggest reading this thread on Reddit, especially of you are a first time DIYer:




Incredible. Exactly the kind of resource I'm after. Thanks so much!

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## wondergryphon (4/9/17)

Ok, will prob have to wait till next month for the scales - but def going to grab the scale from VV. Realising that my current digital kitchen scale isn't as accurate as I'll need to be and also has a super fast auto-off setup.

For now, have switched out to PG Nic, and added a 1ml and 10ml syringe and will do the mixing by measurement for now. Happy with the differences in flavor brands and will just see what I get for my first time and then learn as I go.

Again, thanks to all.

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## Apollo (4/9/17)

wondergryphon said:


> Incredible. Exactly the kind of resource I'm after. Thanks so much!



No problem. I have this link saved on a notepad. it has helped me immensely in the past!
I trust it will do the same for you

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## Vino1718 (4/9/17)

your nic should either be 100% pg or 100% vg afaik.

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## wondergryphon (6/9/17)

Ok, so package arrived today. Did a quick shake + vape to pop my cherry with DIY'ing, and so far so good... I'm still alive and breathing which is always a good sign.

Some comments that I read on this particular recipe said that it can be 'speed steeped' using warm water... Anyone tried this method?

So, what, do I just run some hot tap water and pop the bottle into a mug for an hour or something? simple as that? anything else I need to be aware of? lid on/off ?

Thanks!

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## wondergryphon (6/9/17)

after a few vapes now, its definitely quite harsh on the throat. is this what steeping will help with?...softening and merging all the flavors?

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## RichJB (6/9/17)

It depends on the flavours used. Some can be quite harsh off the bat but then settle down. Others would need to advise you on warm baths to steep. I never use that method.

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