# Issues



## Buan Stanley (25/9/15)

Hi there all

I seem to having major issues with regulated mods they keep breaking.

My subox now doesn't show the battery is charged but it fires a mech mod perfectly any charged battery the subox shows as flat WHY


Take me to the clouds


----------



## Eequinox (25/9/15)

Buan Stanley said:


> Hi there all
> 
> I seem to having major issues with regulated mods they keep breaking.
> 
> ...


Thats a good question have you tried other batteries in it that you know are fully charged and not just a strange coincidence


----------



## Buan Stanley (25/9/15)

I have four batteries all four show on the subox that it's flat ... But it in my mech mod hits like a steam train 


Take me to the clouds


----------



## Eequinox (25/9/15)

Buan Stanley said:


> I have four batteries all four show on the subox that it's flat ... But it in my mech mod hits like a steam train
> 
> 
> Take me to the clouds


remember that the regulated mods will not fire when a battery reaches a certain voltage as to protect over draining the battery which will no allow it to charge.A mech mod that is un regulated will fire if there is enough juice in the battery regardless if its close to the low threshold voltage or not and can damage the battery if you have a multimeter check what the true voltage of the battery is


----------



## Buan Stanley (25/9/15)

All show above 3.2 volts


Take me to the clouds


----------



## DoubleD (25/9/15)

Buan Stanley said:


> All show above 3.2 volts
> 
> 
> Take me to the clouds



3.2v is a bit low boet, charge those puppies and try again at 4.2v

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## BumbleBee (26/9/15)

The Subox will read any battery under 3.47v as "flat"

Reactions: Informative 1


----------



## zadiac (26/9/15)

DoubleD said:


> 3.2v is a bit low boet, charge those puppies and try again at 4.2v



Yeah, you shouldn't discharge your batteries that low. Not good for them. Will reduce the overall battery life significantly. I change batts at 3.7 volts.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Buan Stanley (26/9/15)

That's so stupid though as you don't even get half the use outta them 


Take me to the clouds


----------



## zadiac (26/9/15)

Well, if you want to cut your battery life in half, then it's obviously your choice. We're just giving advice here bud. What you do with it, is up to you.
I can go a whole day on 4 batts (I have a dual battery squonker) and still only discharge to 3.7-3.6 volts. That's very acceptable to me.


----------



## Buan Stanley (26/9/15)

Zadiac my apologies I wasn't aiming that comment at you sir. 

I was meaning it's doff that a person buys a 4.2 volt battery but can't even use one volt of the battery life 


Take me to the clouds


----------



## GerharddP (26/9/15)

Buan Stanley said:


> Zadiac my apologies I wasn't aiming that comment at you sir.
> 
> I was meaning it's doff that a person buys a 4.2 volt battery but can't even use one volt of the battery life
> 
> ...


Dont take this comment the wrong way bud but you have a lot to learn about Li batteries. A Li battery has most of its use at around 3.8 to 3.6 volts. After that the internal resistance starts to overcome the voltage "drive" force. Its not like a "penlight" battery that is dependant on volts almost solely to measure its capacity. Go to www.batteryuniversity.com and educate yourself not only on how it works but how to make it work safely. A bat at 3.2 and less becomes unstable and dangerous.

Reactions: Agree 3


----------



## Coco (26/9/15)

It is "stupid", but it is there for valid reasons -

1. It protects the battery
2. It protects the vaper
3. It protects the battery life
4. It protects the vaper
5. It makes sure things like venting doesn't happen
6. It protects the vaper
7. etc.
8. It protects the vaper

Make no mistake - we are sucking on little bombs with highly volatile chemicals providing the power. It is all fun and games until somebody loses an eye or a tooth or burns...

Like this guy...


----------



## GerharddP (26/9/15)

Coco said:


> It is "stupid", but it is there for valid reasons -
> 
> 1. It protects the battery
> 2. It protects the vaper
> ...


I wouldn't compare it to a bomb. Its more of a rubber band that has the potential to store a lot of energy in a controlled fashion. If you stretch the band it has the potential to snap were as a bomb is made to detonate. But yes we need to educate guys on battery safety because this industry needs to be praised and not sensored or governed.


----------



## Coco (26/9/15)

GerharddP said:


> I wouldn't compare it to a bomb. Its more of a rubber band that has the potential to store a lot of energy in a controlled fashion. If you stretch the band it has the potential to snap were as a bomb is made to detonate.



I stand corrected  But yes, your explanation is spot-on - it is not made to explode, but in the wrong hands things can go wrong.


----------



## Buan Stanley (26/9/15)

I do t think I'm unsafe with my batteries just didn't remember the little discharge issue 


Thanks all


Take me to the clouds


----------



## GerharddP (26/9/15)

Buan Stanley said:


> I do t think I'm unsafe with my batteries just didn't remember the little discharge issue
> 
> 
> Thanks all
> ...


Just be safe mate. Those photos are real and avoidable...


----------



## Silver (26/9/15)

Hi @Buan Stanley
I totally understand your view that its "doff" that on mechanical devices we only go from 4.2V down to about 3.7 or 3.6. I felt the same way as you a while back

But the other guys are right about the safety aspects and the life of the battery being affected if it goes too low. I was always under the impression one can take it down safely to about 3V though. Although i have never done that. The vape gets too weak from about 3.5V onwards for me. I have heard that the battery can go even lower to about 2.5V before it causes a big problem for the battery but i am not sure about that

Developing on from this on a slightly different topic - i find it very interesting how most battery specs will say like 2500 mah, but on the battery discharging charts I have seen, they mostly take those batts down to like 2.5V or thereabouts. So the actual usable mah (down to about 3.7V) is much, much less than the stated 2500 mah. Its about a third of that - if that.

All very interesting and learning all the time


----------



## Pixstar (26/9/15)

Hi guys. Frightening stuff! To clarify, is it safe then to vape with a battery on a regulated mod (Kanger Subox / IPV D2) unitl the mod tells you it's "flat" and stops? I find the IPV D2 runs it flatter because when I place the batteries on the charger it shows at at lower percentage charge than with the Subox. Thanks.


----------



## kev mac (26/9/15)

Buan Stanley said:


> Hi there all
> 
> I seem to having major issues with regulated mods they keep breaking.
> 
> ...


Does the subbox still fire w/those batteries?


----------



## Silver (26/9/15)

Pixstar said:


> Hi guys. Frightening stuff! To clarify, is it safe then to vape with a battery on a regulated mod (Kanger Subox / IPV D2) unitl the mod tells you it's "flat" and stops? I find the IPV D2 runs it flatter because when I place the batteries on the charger it shows at at lower percentage charge than with the Subox. Thanks.



Hi @Pixstar , i am of the opinion that its safe to vape on a good regulated mod until the mod says its flat. If you use the correct battery that the mod is supposed to use, of course.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Thanks 1


----------



## Buan Stanley (26/9/15)

Thanks for the advice all I am now definitely more careful with batteries and battery usage 


Take me to the clouds

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Pixstar (26/9/15)

Silver said:


> Hi @Pixstar , i am of the opinion that its safe to vape on a good regulated mod until the mod says its flat. If you use the correct battery that the mod is supposed to use, of course.


Thanks @Silver !

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Andre (26/9/15)

Pixstar said:


> Hi guys. Frightening stuff! To clarify, is it safe then to vape with a battery on a regulated mod (Kanger Subox / IPV D2) unitl the mod tells you it's "flat" and stops? I find the IPV D2 runs it flatter because when I place the batteries on the charger it shows at at lower percentage charge than with the Subox. Thanks.


Agree with @Silver. Absolutely safe. Most regulated mods will take it down to about 3.2V. Personally, I think it is an urban myth that our batteries should not be discharged below 3.6/3.7 for better battery life. I would love to see evidence to this effect. For sure, if you use a mech mod, at this stage (around 3.7V) you will feel the need for fresh batteries, but regulated mods have the ability to garner the battery's resources to still deliver effective power down to around 3.2V. The mech user will just charge more frequently, but shorter - whilst the regulated user will charge less frequently, but longer. In the end the battery in use life will be very much similar imho.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Thanks 1


----------



## Gazzacpt (27/9/15)

Andre said:


> Agree with @Silver. Absolutely safe. Most regulated mods will take it down to about 3.2V. Personally, I think it is an urban myth that our batteries should not be discharged below 3.6/3.7 for better battery life. I would love to see evidence to this effect. For sure, if you use a mech mod, at this stage (around 3.7V) you will feel the need for fresh batteries, but regulated mods have the ability to garner the battery's resources to still deliver effective power down to around 3.2V. The mech user will just charge more frequently, but shorter - whilst the regulated user will charge less frequently, but longer. In the end the battery in use life will be very much similar imho.


I remember something I read a while ago that 2.5V is the point of no return. If you at 2.5V under load you causing a bit of damage and below 2.5V no load you might have issues getting the cell to take a charge again.
But that being said there are so many variations on li ion chemistry that one type gets unstable at 2.5V and another at 3.0 so I make damn sure I never drop below 3.0 - 3.2V.
As you say at 3.6 you can definitely feel the vape is a bit weak. At 3.5V on a mech you effectively have a flat battery.

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## DougP (27/9/15)

I wanna just be absolutely sure on this ....

I currently use both a sub box mini and ipvd2 daily..
In both of these devices I use the Efest IMR 18650 3.7 volt 2800 mAh battery.
I vape until device shows battery flat and won't fire no more.. Take out battery and then put it into a nitecore intellicharger I2 till it charged.
So given the above is everything safe and above board ?

Some other advise..

After a vape I always switch off device..
On sub box its 5 rapid presses
On ipvd2 its menu system off.
Question is do you need to do this. Does this provide extra protection. In essence can one leave device powered on and sitting there between vapes.
Will say when I not using device I always remove battery completely from mod..every night one of these device will have its battery removed..

Lastly this is of a real concern to me having read this post

Both devices come with a USB change cable as both devices have built in charger..
I spend a lot of time in my vehicle and have a USB car charger..based on this thread I went and looked at car charger and my Samsung charger that I use to charge sub box and they both 2 amp rapid chargers..
Manual for Ipvd2 says needs 1 amp
Question is....
when using external chargers to change via device USB port can u use rapid charges..
Having been doing this every day in car on sub box


Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


----------



## Andre (27/9/15)

DougP said:


> I wanna just be absolutely sure on this ....
> 
> I currently use both a sub box mini and ipvd2 daily..
> In both of these devices I use the Efest IMR 18650 3.7 volt 2800 mAh battery.
> ...



Perfectly fine imo.
No need to do that whilst the mod is sitting in a safe place, i.e. where the power cannot be pressed by accident like in your pocket or in a handbag.
As I understand an answer by @johan in this regard, your mod will in any event tone down the amps to its requirement.

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## DougP (27/9/15)

Thx Andre all this talk about batteries venting.. and..and...and..
kinda makes a person a little paranoid
Had first test of Ipvd2 safety feature yesterday..
Guy wanted to test his tank on mod and his coil build ohm was below the required range for the mod so it wouldnt accept atty 

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


----------



## Eequinox (27/9/15)

DougP said:


> I wanna just be absolutely sure on this ....
> 
> I currently use both a sub box mini and ipvd2 daily..
> In both of these devices I use the Efest IMR 18650 3.7 volt 2800 mAh battery.
> ...


as far as i know that's all fine

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Silver (27/9/15)

Great that you are asking all the questions @DougP 
And it seems you are taking safety issues very seriously, which is a very good thing.

I don't switch off my regulated mods (istick50 and Sig100+) in between vapes. I don't take out the batteries unless I need to change them on my Sig. But I do switch off the device (5 clicks etc) when I am travelling somewhere and I put the vapes in my vape bag. Sometimes they touch each other and can fire if the button is pressed against another mod. I do take out the batteries when travelling on the plane.

I vape my iStick until it says it's flat. No problems there.

On my Sig100+, I vape it until it says the battery level is about 40%. 

The reason I do this is interesting.

When I first got it I vaped it all the way down to zero. And when I took out the batteries (Blue Samsung "Smurfs"), it would not read on @johan's doohickey (small voltmeter I got from Johan many moons ago). I know this doohickey only reads 2.8V and above, so I knew it was below 2.8V. I didn't have a multimeter at that stage so unfortunately I could not measure the voltage at that point. (Now I have one) But I put the batts (blue smurfs) into the Nitecore charger and they charged for about 5 minutes, then I measured them again on the doohickey and if I recall correctly they were about 2.9V or 3.0V. So I assume they were probably just below 2.8V when they came out the Sig. So I estimate say 2.7V. 

Since then, I never vape the Sig down to "flat". I take the batts out when it says 40% and the batts usually measure around 3.5 to 3.6 V. Not sure why the Sig allows them to fall that far. But at the time, other vapers said it could have been because I was vaping on a highish ohm coil (about 1.2 ohm) at lowish power (about 15 W) - so the Sig could still fire and give me the vape I was dialling in even though the batts were low. I was amazed that first run because I vaped about 20 ml of juice (5 Lemo 1 tankfuls). Nowadays I get about 12 to 15 mls of juice when vaping down to 40% on the Sig's battery gauge. 

I am still unsure whether what I did on that first run was dangerous. (I.e. vaping it down to zero percent on the device battery gauge) I do not understand why the Sig allows one to get that low if it could be dangerous. But it was all fine and the batts are working very well and behaving perfectly. 

Still a bit strange to me.


----------



## Buan Stanley (27/9/15)

I bought a multimeter two days ago after my first post I never use my batteries now on my sig below 3.7 volts which results in me needing more batteries


Take me to the clouds


----------



## DougP (27/9/15)

I wanted to ask these questions in a lay man's terms to assist all vapors. At the end of the day most of us are not technical and haven't studied the science and physics behind our hardware or vaping in general.
We blindly trust the product, its design specifications and it's built in safety features.
Having seen the news of devices exploding, footage on here on a discussion forum of a specific brand product melting and reading forums like this one about battery safety I suddenly realised that I have been trusting my device 100% to manage my safety.
I just wanted to check with the experts that I could totally rely on the device to perform this management function for me.



Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


----------



## DougP (27/9/15)

Point made looking at @buans post..
I cannot see my self driving around with a multimeter and periodically pulling out my batteries from mod then measuring them on the multimeter..


Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


----------



## DougP (27/9/15)

What kind of confuses me now is that I am gleaming from this thread that when you buy a device like a Sig they don't tell you or print massively in red on the mod that this thing could explode and put a hole in your face because it drains battery below the 3.7 volts which reading above once you do this you get into a high risk zone

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


----------



## Silver (27/9/15)

DougP said:


> Point made looking at @buans post..
> I cannot see my self driving around with a multimeter and periodically pulling out my batteries from mod then measuring them on the multimeter..
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk



I dont drive around with the multimeter. It stays on my vape table. Every now and then i take out a battery and try guess where its volts are. On the Reos I am usually spot on to within 0.1 V. Based on the vape and the juice remaining in the bottle. On the Sig, i just take the batts out at about 40% and they are always at about the same voltage (around 3.6). I occasionally use the multimeter just to check. But not always.


----------



## DougP (27/9/15)

Dam man you guys are scarring me now.
I am relatively new to this vaping experience. This thread paints a dark picture of what can happen if you don't use your batteries properly and now I see the senior experienced vaporers now testing batteries with multimeters to ensure battery limits are not being exceeded and not using batteries below certain percentages on certain devices.

I got impression earlier in thread that my device would be okay in its current configuration and that I would be safe.
Should I also be randomly testing batteries with a multi meter...

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


----------



## Andre (27/9/15)

DougP said:


> What kind of confuses me now is that I am gleaming from this thread that when you buy a device like a Sig they don't tell you or print massively in red on the mod that this thing could explode and put a hole in your face because it drains battery below the 3.7 volts which reading above once you do this you get into a high risk zone
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


Point is, on a regulated mod, you can trust the mod re the charge remaining in the battery. Take out/charge the batteries when the device tell you to. I you feel it is better to charge it at 40% that is your prerogative, but the batteries will be fine at any rate. @Silver has clearly stated that the batteries in his Sig was probably just below 2.8V, which is still well above the point of no return at around 2.5V. And as he also said the batteries were fine and this low discharge was only possible because of high resistance and low wattage vaping. In most cases the mod will give you the battery empty signal long before 2.8V. At the moment I am vaping on a SX Mini with the battery at 3.73V, showing 2/3 of the charge remaining. There is now way I am going to charge this battery now - the vape is still perfectly fine. 

In the unlikely event of the battery discharging too low (below 2.5V), this does not mean that battery now suddenly becomes an explosive device. It will in all probability just not charge and be useless. 

From a safety point of view the most important is that your batteries have the correct continuous discharge current, be they be used on a mechanical or regulated device. Most regulated devices nowadays prescribe a continuous discharge rating of at least 20A for the batteries to be used.

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## Silver (27/9/15)

Thanks @Andre 
Well explained


----------



## DougP (27/9/15)

@Andre
Thank you for you reassurance and detailed explanations. Given the serious nature of these batteries and their dangers I wanted to understand this clearly.
It's really good to chat to people like you that have the knowledge and experience and are willing to spend time sharing it with me.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## DougP (27/9/15)

Opps and thanx to you to Silver

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## DougP (27/9/15)

GerharddP said:


> Dont take this comment the wrong way bud but you have a lot to learn about Li batteries. A Li battery has most of its use at around 3.8 to 3.6 volts. After that the internal resistance starts to overcome the voltage "drive" force. Its not like a "penlight" battery that is dependant on volts almost solely to measure its capacity. Go to www.batteryuniversity.com and educate yourself not only on how it works but how to make it work safely. A bat at 3.2 and less becomes unstable and dangerous.


This post higher up in threat is what got me concerned specifically his last line..this totally contradicts what you saying

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


----------



## Buan Stanley (27/9/15)

It's a total different ball game with me now only using mechs ( just read my previous post about my sig... I DONT OWN A SIG so ignore that nonsense that came from me I must speaking about in the future when I get my sig)


Take me to the clouds


----------



## DougP (27/9/15)

zadiac said:


> Yeah, you shouldn't discharge your batteries that low. Not good for them. Will reduce the overall battery life significantly. I change batts at 3.7 volts.


And this one

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


----------



## Andre (27/9/15)

DougP said:


> This post higher up in threat is what got me concerned specifically his last line..this totally contradicts what you saying
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


Which is why I posted this:



Andre said:


> Agree with @Silver. Absolutely safe. Most regulated mods will take it down to about 3.2V. Personally, I think it is an urban myth that our batteries should not be discharged below 3.6/3.7 for better battery life. I would love to see evidence to this effect. For sure, if you use a mech mod, at this stage (around 3.7V) you will feel the need for fresh batteries, but regulated mods have the ability to garner the battery's resources to still deliver effective power down to around 3.2V. The mech user will just charge more frequently, but shorter - whilst the regulated user will charge less frequently, but longer. In the end the battery in use life will be very much similar imho.


----------



## DougP (27/9/15)

Right so we beat this horse to death..moving right along..


Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Reactions: Informative 1


----------



## BumbleBee (27/9/15)

Guys, the batteries aren't going to explode if you run them below 3.7v, regardless if they're being used in a mechanical or electronic mod. What the guys are saying above is that these batteries have a useful "powerband" between 4.2v and 3.7v, it's perfectly safe to run them down to 3.5v or even 3.2v, going lower than that _may_ reduce the battery's overall lifespan.

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## DougP (27/9/15)

@Andre
I guess one off the most difficult things to do when using a public forum is to know who to trust and who not to.. From day one I have always taken your and silver's advise and recommendations as my guidelines...
Tx guys

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


----------



## Silver (27/9/15)

Thanks @DougP 
There are several folk on the forum that know way more about the electronics and such issues than me. 

Best to check with several sources and always ask questions as you have done.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Andre (27/9/15)

DougP said:


> @Andre
> I guess one off the most difficult things to do when using a public forum is to know who to trust and who not to.. From day one I have always taken your and silver's advise and recommendations as my guidelines...
> Tx guys
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


Yes, thanks. I try to communicate my interpretation of what I read, but might well be wrong, and will be the first to admit thus. This (batteries) is a complicated subject - e.g., just on terminology, 2.5V under load might mean 3.6V not under load. Thus, easy to misinterpret what others mean.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## GerharddP (28/9/15)

Andre said:


> Yes, thanks. I try to communicate my interpretation of what I read, but might well be wrong, and will be the first to admit thus. This (batteries) is a complicated subject - e.g., just on terminology, 2.5V under load might mean 3.6V not under load. Thus, easy to misinterpret what others mean.


That's what I think is the main problem, not so much trust issues. Just remember that those 2.5V values come from draining the battery with a constant e.g. 5A load. At 20A the battery heats up faster because the internal resistance becomes a factor. If you have the time and the means check it out for yourself. Take a battery of 3.5V and less and force it to discharge at high current. The battery heats up more quickly at those voltages and thus become unstable and "more likely" to fail. We all know how heat and resistance works and thus why a battery heating up is not a good idea.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## WHeunis (28/9/15)

Been a while since i posted, but the safety topic always gets mt attention.

Kudos for asking.
Its better to ask and be called a dumbass, as opposed to not asking and being a dumbass witha blown-off face...
Just my opinion.

As far as battery safety goes...
Alwaya remember that ANY energy storage device (batteries especially) is a volatile and potentially dangerous item.
Cellphone batteries, laptop batteries, electric car batteries, regular car batteries, and so on.

Always take the utmost care to treat them as such.
You wouldnt put a loaded gun against your lips without KNOWING AND CHECKING AND RECHECKING that the safety is on... i recommend the same for batteries.

Now im not saying everyone should walk around with voltmeters and test their car, phone, watch, ecig, etc every 5 mins.
What i am saying is this:
Why on earth did @Silver even bother to test those batteries out of his Sig150 at all?
Because he wanted to KNOW AND CHECK AND RECHECK that the safety is indeed on.

Carry the mindset to not simply blindly trust that things are what they say they are...
At least not the things that you hold to your face...

Always check.
Always test (if possible).
Have it tested by someone else if available. 
Ask questions.

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 1


----------



## DougP (28/9/15)

Good points good post @WHeunis

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


----------



## Andre (1/10/15)

Being curious after this thread decided to check the SX Mini and IPV D2 when I got the battery warning and they fired no more.

SX Mini with GEM RTA with a 0.8 ohm coil at 12W: Screen said 3.30V when it stopped firing. @johan's Doohikey measured the battery (Efest 2800) at 3.35V.
IPV D2 with Sapor RDA with a 0.5 ohm coil at 30.6W: Screen reported 3.87V when it stopped firing. @johan's Doohikey measured the battery (Efest 2900) at 3.3V.
Conclusions: IPV D2 does not measure the Vs very accurate. These two regulated devices seem to regard around 3.3V as a safe point and I am happy to fully use batteries on them. Both batteries happily charging away at the moment.

Reactions: Informative 3


----------



## DougP (1/10/15)

Thx for that Andre so I shall use my ipvd2 without a worry then..

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## DougP (1/10/15)

Next you gotta test a sub box

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


----------



## Andre (1/10/15)

DougP said:


> Next you gotta test a sub box
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


Lol, HRH donated hers to the daughter in law - so no can do, unfortunately.


----------

