# Aldehydes - at what temperature are they formed?



## Hooked (11/8/19)

In an article regarding the FDA's concern about toxicity levels in e-liquid, it is stated that, 

"... when either propylene glycol or glycerin are heated to too high a temperature, they degrade into other chemicals that may be problematic, especially aldehydes such as formaldehyde and acrolein, which could be toxic if inhaled at high levels for many years. Vaping products that have careful temperature control, overcharge protection, etc., do not present a high risk of producing these unwanted chemicals. However, products without these safety features could potentially be problematic.”

The person who said this is Michael Siegel, Professor of community health sciences at the Boston University School of Public Health and who is in favour of vaping. I am thus taking his concerns seriously.

This is not the first time that aldehydes have been mentioned in articles, but my question is - *what is defined as a "high level"? * This is never stated. My iJust 3s, when fully charged, vape at 80W apparently. ls that a "high level"?

Reactions: Like 3


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## Room Fogger (11/8/19)

Maybe read this one as well @Hooked. I do not see specific temperatures being mentioned, but think it was done under “normal vaping conditions”
https://www.churnmag.com/news/dr-farsalinos-new-study-destroys-old-anti-vaping-argument/

Another one
https://vaping360.com/vape-news/62074/ecigarettes-vaping-formaldehyde-farsalinos/

I have to note that for each positive study, about 10 others slamming vaping is on there, Allthough the methodology will differ dramatically between the two sides.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 2


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## Room Fogger (11/8/19)

I vape most of the time between 15-25 W MTL and 25-50 W for DL, depending on device and juice profile. All I can state again is that I feel a heck of a lot better since stopping smoking and seeing that I was exposing myself 100% to harm, 5 % is actually a more acceptable exposure level imho. Vaping was the 1st method that actually got me to quit, and I have not regressed back, something I was worried about. Last time my lung function was checked, I went from not being able to climb 7 stairs without a rest to 80% of my lung function, which is quite normal for a person, not a smoker or so I was told. Am I still out of breath, yes, sometimes, but not all of the time like previously.

Will I continue to vape, hell yes. I am more scared of going back to smoking, having little willpower when it comes to smoking as I loved it, meaning that if I have to vape until I lay down my head I’ll vape, and live with 5% risk instead of 100% risk. I’ve done this to myself, and only I can continue to keep the risk to me as low as possible, and hopefully limit any additional damage caused by me smoking so many, up to 60 a day for most of my 34 odd years smoking life. I can live with most exposure levels of the baddies, as they are still less than with smoking, and no lung clogging tar.

I have never expected that there is no risk in vaping and therefore will advise any non smoker never to start with either, but if I can convert one smoker to vaping I’ll definitely try. I also believe that the amount of toxins we breathe in in an hour in peak traffic may even be worse to our health than vaping.

I’ll keep those flavour clouds coming, long live vaping!

Reactions: Like 5 | Agree 3 | Winner 1


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## Raindance (12/8/19)

Guys, wattage is a poor indicator of temperature as 25W will heat a short length of wire proportionally more than a longer wire. Wattage divided by wire volume will be significantly less, as a result less heat will be transferred to the liquid.

Regards

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Informative 2


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## takatatak (14/8/19)

Hey there fellow vapers,

So some of the most common components found in the flavour concentrates used to make e-liquid are Vanillin and Ethyl Vanillin which are both aldehydes. With vanilla being such a popular flavour, you're unfortunately bound to be getting some aldehydes in the majority of the juice you vape...

If you look at this spec list then you'll see how many flavour concentrates use Vanillin from this specific flavour manufacturer. TFA is pretty much the only flavour house which has this info available but you can almost rest assured that the same or similar flavourings from other manufacturers use some or all of the same compounds...

All things considered, a recent study (don't have the link on hand but I can find it if need be) found that even when using all of these various compounds at they're maximum usage percentages, only Cyclotene was present at what is considered to be a potentially harmful amount.

That said, I'd still rather take my chances with vaping as opposed to going back to cancer sticks...

Reactions: Agree 1 | Informative 4


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## RichJB (15/8/19)

Research testing doesn't mention temperatures because it's very difficult to measure the temp of vapour. Instead, they take a reference coil and gradually increase the voltage, noting changes in aldehyde formation as the voltage increases. That, too, is meaningless because unless you're using the exact same coil, you can't take the same voltage settings. And then vapers usually work with wattage rather than voltage.

It's also not just a voltage/wattage function. Remember that most research is done on cigalikes where airflow is very restricted. I would imagine that aldehydes form at the point where the liquid is vaporised on the coil. But an airy dripper where juice is vaporised under conditions of cooling air being drawn in from the outside and running over the coil is perhaps different from a MTL cigalike where the vaporisation is happening in effectively a sealed chamber with little airflow.

So I think we're a long way off from science being able to tell us that 38W is safe but 40W starts getting dangerous. In the meantime, I think the most prudent approach is to vape at the lowest wattage that gives you a satisfying vape. If you're getting the flavour you want from the juice at 45W, there is little reason to bump it up to 90W.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 3 | Informative 3


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