# Vaping could be as harmful as cigarettes?



## Silver (24/5/19)

Saw this article recently on Alex.co.za

https://alexnews.co.za/132198/medical-evidence-suggests-vaping-harmful-cigarette-smoking/

Here’s a part of the article:

——————————————————————————————————————————————-
*Medical evidence suggests vaping could be as harmful as cigarette smoking*
While the risks and merits of e-cigarettes – or vaping – continue to be fiercely contested, medical evidence is stacking up to suggest that vaping could be as harmful as cigarette smoking.

Dr David Christiani, study author and professor of environmental genetics at the Harvard School of Public Health said people should not assume e-cigarettes were safe, calling for better education and more regulation. 

“There needs to be much stronger regulation of the production and purity of the compounds used in e-cigarettes,” he said.

The research conducted at the Harvard School of Public Health included the examination of 75 popular e-cigarette products, including 37 single-use cartridges and 38 e-liquids from the top 10 selling United States brands.

“Seventeen products out of the 75 analysed were found to contain traces of endotoxin, a potent inflammatory molecule found in bacteria. 61 products contained traces of glucan; a toxic substance found in the cell walls of most fungi. Exposure to these microbial toxins has been associated with a myriad of health problems including reduced lung function, asthma, and inflammation,” read a statement released by Sibongiseni Ngamile of the campaign Tobacco-Free Kids.

——————————————————————————————————————————————-

That’s just the title and first few paragraphs. You can read the full article. 

I found the underlying research paper here:
https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/doi/10.1289/EHP3469

So basically they took popular cartridges and standalone ejuice in the USA and found traces of endotoxin and glucan. 

My comments are as follows:

They analyzed the liquid in the cartridges and the standalone ejuice itself. I.e. before vaporization. They didn’t analyze the vapour after the ejuice is vaporized I wonder if the results would have been different?
Most importantly, I could not find any reference in their research to the levels of these toxins in cigarettes. In order to draw a comparison. So I find it quite strange how the Alex.co.za article has its headline referring to “vaping could be as harmful as smoking”. The research didn’t compare the two. Unless I missed it.

Maybe I have missed it. And haven’t had time to find the levels of these substances in cigarettes if that research has been done. In any event, I doubt the methods would be the same because these guys analyzed liquid and a cigarette is either a solid (the cigarette itself) or the smoke coming out when you inhale it. So it would probably require a different type of research.

What would be great is to see the levels of these toxins in cigarette smoke vs e-cigarette vapour.

I hope the good Dr Farsalinos sees this and writes something about it. If I am right and they didn’t compare it with cigarettes then I suspect he would say the research needs to analyze the comparison between the two.

Another interesting snippet is that the research found more of these toxins in tobacco and menthol flavours. My bad luck because those are my favourites 

If anyone finds anything further on this, please share your comments below. @RichJB have you seen this? What’s your take?

Reactions: Like 4 | Informative 4


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## RichJB (24/5/19)

Harvard has an abysmal record of research into vaping. Their school is heavily funded by pharma companies. Here is a NYT article outlining how prevalent pharma industry positions are among the faculty. Harvard was also the school that did the infamous diacetyl study announcing that the "popcorn lung" chemical had been found in around 75% of juices tested - but then curiously failing to mention that diacetyl is also present in cigarette smoke and at much higher quantities.

Regarding glucans, here is what Web MD has to say about them:



> Beta glucans are sugars that are found in the cell walls of bacteria, fungi, yeasts, algae, lichens, and plants, such as oats and barley. They are sometimes used as medicine.
> 
> Beta glucans are used for high cholesterol, diabetes, cancer, and HIV/AIDS. Beta glucans are also used to boost the immune system in people whose body defenses have been weakened by conditions such as chronic fatigue syndrome, or physical and emotional stress; or by treatments such as radiation or chemotherapy. Beta glucans are also used for colds (common cold), flu (influenza), H1N1 (swine) flu, allergies, hepatitis, Lyme disease, asthma, ear infections, aging, ulcerative colitis and Crohn's disease, fibromyalgia, rheumatoid arthritis, and multiple sclerosis.
> 
> ...



So vaping is as dangerous as eating oats and barley, and will cure high cholesterol, diabetes, cancer, HIV, chronic fatigue, stress, colds, flu, swine flu, allergies, hepatitis, Lyme disease, asthma, ear infection, arthritis, multiple sclerosis, dermatitis, eczema, bedsores, diabetic ulcers, burns and skin tumours. It will take away your wrinkles, combat aging and, to top it all, will make your vape taste like salad dressing, frozen yogurt, sour cream and cheese spreads.

I'm kidding, of course, but I don't think anybody is going to die of glucans in vapour anytime soon. I would wait for Farsalinos to comment on this before becoming concerned.

Reactions: Like 4 | Winner 5 | Funny 1 | Thanks 1


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## KrayFish404 (24/5/19)

You'll find a lot of garbage articles out there. Best is to nod and smile when Aunty Stienie emails the links to you. In her mind she just wants to save you from your path to sure hell.

For all argument's sake - you do have to give your body the best it deserves, so whatever you breath in, or eat, or drink, has to be pure. That single BicMac won't kill you, neither will the shot tequila, or the one cigarette. But overdoing it will most definitely do something detrimental to your health, it may not shorten your life but it sure will alter the quality thereof.

Bottom line... If you can quit smoking, and put in the same effort and quit vaping you would not receive spam from Aunt Stienie, you don't have to worry about diacetyl and the 1/4000 world of vaping vs smoking ratios, all the puny but lost arguments.

This is social media, a world where the lost must have a Schrödinger's opinion, cyber bullies are as common as the Huisgenoot on a Thursday, and everyone is a victim to trolling. Because trust me, every one of these articles is written by a troll, looking for attention, and all we do is giving it to them.

Look at this one below, found it quite humorous. That website is interesting as well, I cannot fathom how much they spent on that garbage, all about making people quit vaping. Do they find it that much of a problem? They are treating it as if they are stopping crack or underage prostitution. Also the way they represent nicotine - it's microscopic metal nanobots that looks like a scene from Aliens inside your lungs. 

Cracks me up, I had to play that game twice.

Reactions: Winner 2 | Funny 2


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## Adephi (24/5/19)



Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 6


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## Silver (24/5/19)

RichJB said:


> Harvard has an abysmal record of research into vaping. Their school is heavily funded by pharma companies. Here is a NYT article outlining how prevalent pharma industry positions are among the faculty. Harvard was also the school that did the infamous diacetyl study announcing that the "popcorn lung" chemical had been found in around 75% of juices tested - but then curiously failing to mention that diacetyl is also present in cigarette smoke and at much higher quantities.
> 
> Regarding glucans, here is what Web MD has to say about them:
> 
> ...



Thanks @RichJB 
Much appreciated for those insights. 

Research was done but it’s the level of toxicity that matters AND the comparison with cigarettes. I don’t get a good sense of either in this particular study. The levels they found mean little to me as the layperson unless I know what level is considered to be properly harmful.

Reactions: Agree 4


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## Silver (24/5/19)

KrayFish404 said:


> You'll find a lot of garbage articles out there. Best is to nod and smile when Aunty Stienie emails the links to you. In her mind she just wants to save you from your path to sure hell.
> 
> For all argument's sake - you do have to give your body the best it deserves, so whatever you breath in, or eat, or drink, has to be pure. That single BicMac won't kill you, neither will the shot tequila, or the one cigarette. But overdoing it will most definitely do something detrimental to your health, it may not shorten your life but it sure will alter the quality thereof.
> 
> ...



I hear you @KrayFish404
It’s just good to keep an eye on these things and try understand and get to the bottom of the research to see what is going on.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## ARYANTO (24/5/19)

KrayFish404 said:


> You'll find a lot of garbage articles out there. Best is to nod and smile when Aunty Stienie emails the links to you. In her mind she just wants to save you from your path to sure hell.
> 
> For all argument's sake - you do have to give your body the best it deserves, so whatever you breath in, or eat, or drink, has to be pure. That single BicMac won't kill you, neither will the shot tequila, or the one cigarette. But overdoing it will most definitely do something detrimental to your health, it may not shorten your life but it sure will alter the quality thereof.
> 
> ...


no wonder there is s




cch a high amount of wankers in South Africa


KrayFish404 said:


> You'll find a lot of garbage articles out there. Best is to nod and smile when Aunty Stienie emails the links to you. In her mind she just wants to save you from your path to sure hell.
> 
> For all argument's sake - you do have to give your body the best it deserves, so whatever you breath in, or eat, or drink, has to be pure. That single BicMac won't kill you, neither will the shot tequila, or the one cigarette. But overdoing it will most definitely do something detrimental to your health, it may not shorten your life but it sure will alter the quality thereof.
> 
> ...

Reactions: Funny 3


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## ARYANTO (24/5/19)

No Wonder we have such an extraordinary HIGH amount of wankers in S.A ......

Reactions: Funny 1


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## KrayFish404 (24/5/19)

Silver said:


> I hear you @KrayFish404
> It’s just good to keep an eye n these things and try understand and get to the bottom of the research to see what is going on.



I know I know... But these guys are really a bunch of trolls. They keep digging up the same old "facts" from pre-2010 and dishing it up again, most of it is old news or proven to be directly false. Back in the days where I was a new vaper I'd fight every anti-vape battle, and I just realised we're just feeding the trolls. It simply made no difference how much experience or knowledge you have, that news clipping from Aunt Stienie out of Huisgenoot will trump you every time. There is nothing as ignorant as a smoker, coughing their lungs at, who has just added the words formaldehyde or diacetyl to their vocabulary. You can just as well try to convert a Man United to a Liverpool fan. Rather agree that you both like brannas and coke, and enjoy the night.

We (us vapers) are fighting because we want them to understand the facts, that vaping is a hell of a lot better than smoking, and that vaping is basically the cure to smoking.

They have very little to gain, they are simply fighting to see us getting worked up, and in most cases they see victory. Very much the big brother situation. You older sibling knew exactly what to say to made you cry, how many times did you have a fit of desperation/frustration/defeat/hopelessness... But when you simply brushed it off they just left you be with your Lego, in peace.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## Silver (24/5/19)

KrayFish404 said:


> I know I know... But these guys are really a bunch of trolls. They keep digging up the same old "facts" from pre-2010



I think this research was done very recently. Not old. In fact it was the first of its kind on eliquid. 

But I hear you and agree with your sentiments.


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## Raindance (24/5/19)

Traces? How long is a piece of string? 

Seriously, these clowns call themselves scientists?

Regards

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## RainstormZA (24/5/19)

Raindance said:


> Traces? How long is a piece of string?
> 
> Seriously, these clowns call themselves scientists?
> 
> Regards


I'm liking you more and more for your bluntness, exactly what I would have thought and said...

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Raindance (25/5/19)

KrayFish404 said:


> I know I know... But these guys are really a bunch of trolls. They keep digging up the same old "facts" from pre-2010 and dishing it up again, most of it is old news or proven to be directly false. Back in the days where I was a new vaper I'd fight every anti-vape battle, and I just realised we're just feeding the trolls. It simply made no difference how much experience or knowledge you have, that news clipping from Aunt Stienie out of Huisgenoot will trump you every time. There is nothing as ignorant as a smoker, coughing their lungs at, who has just added the words formaldehyde or diacetyl to their vocabulary. You can just as well try to convert a Man United to a Liverpool fan. Rather agree that you both like brannas and coke, and enjoy the night.
> 
> We (us vapers) are fighting because we want them to understand the facts, that vaping is a hell of a lot better than smoking, and that vaping is basically the cure to smoking.
> 
> They have very little to gain, they are simply fighting to see us getting worked up, and in most cases they see victory. Very much the big brother situation. You older sibling knew exactly what to say to made you cry, how many times did you have a fit of desperation/frustration/defeat/hopelessness... But when you simply brushed it off they just left you be with your Lego, in peace.


I am actually less upset about their claims than about the fact that they publish this as the result of research. Proper research seeks to find quantified results and then expresses an objective opinion based on these results. Finding trace elements of a substance is not a result if the level and proven impact of this quantity are not also presented. If you do not know the effect, be honest and state that your results were inconclusive. What thus really pisses me off is the fact that these guys are an embarrassment to the research profession.

Regards

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## CMMACKEM (25/5/19)

Im under no illusion that vaping is not good for me but I am 100x heathier than when I smoked, explain that Harvard.

I had two cigarettes the other night, first time in a long time, my chest became tight and the next morning started coughing out horrible flem. I thought I was getting flu.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Informative 2


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## Spyro (25/5/19)

It's always funny to hear the risk factor increases. Vaping increases your chance of a heart attack by up to 50%!!! What?! So every second vaper will die of a heart attack?

No, if your risk of having a heart attack was 2% it is now up to 3%

Still though, I am a bit worried about the brain worms I've contracted.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 4 | Useful 1


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