# Rate, Improve and comment - My planned berry blend



## Spyro (15/1/19)

Decided to try my hand at a berry. The ratios are this way to make use of all concentrates. They are odd numbers because that is their percentage value should I use the entire 10ml. So if you have any recommendations please do comment.

HS - Blueberry 8.5%
INW - Shisha Raspberry 2.85%
WF - Sour Blue Raspberry Candy 2.85%
TFA - Brown Sugar 1%
TFM - Musk 1.5%

Total % = 16.5%. I do understand that it's very high but HS Blueberry needs a high percentage to shine.

Thoughts?

@Rude Rudi @RichJB - tagging you two because you've given great advice in the past.

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## Beserker786 (15/1/19)

Seems to me that your total percentage is 16.7%.

INW flavours are very strong, and seems too high. Did u perhaps test or read Flavour notes for those flavours? It’ll help you get a feel for the weighting and how they’re adding to your recipe.

All the best

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## RichJB (15/1/19)

What functions do the Musk and Brown Sugar fill in the recipe? Brown sugar is generally used as a bakery additive and musk tends to be a very assertive flavour. I can't say that it won't work with berries but it doesn't seem an intuitive combo for me.

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## Spyro (16/1/19)

RichJB said:


> What functions do the Musk and Brown Sugar fill in the recipe? Brown sugar is generally used as a bakery additive and musk tends to be a very assertive flavour. I can't say that it won't work with berries but it doesn't seem an intuitive combo for me.




Musk is simply to add a musk element to the mix. The brown sugar replaces supersweet. 



Beserker786 said:


> Seems to me that your total percentage is 16.7%.
> 
> INW flavours are very strong, and seems too high. Did u perhaps test or read Flavour notes for those flavours? It’ll help you get a feel for the weighting and how they’re adding to your recipe.
> 
> All the best



I did not. I've only ever mixed with HS Blueberry from this recipe before. I do remember INW Shisha Strawberry being so strong that it was used at 1.5% 


How does everyone feel about using brown sugar as a sweetener?

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## RichJB (16/1/19)

Brown sugar adds a darker bakery type of sweetness. I'm not sure that will play well with berries. It might but I think sucralose may be a safer bet.

I don't know TFM Musk but musk generally is a very assertive flavour. As is HS Blueberry, which ID10-T recently described as being like vaping a blue neon sign. Putting the two together might produce a sort of complementary alchemical magic. But my sense is that they are more likely to clash.

For a berry blend, I would probably start with just the three berries at half the percentages you have currently. If it needs sweetening, I would then add Super Sweet straight into the mixed juice. If the result still isn't what you want and you think a bit of musk might complete it, I'd make a 10ml tester with 0.5% of Musk and then increase incrementally, again into the same bottle, if it is not registering sufficiently.

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## Vilaishima (16/1/19)

I have to agree I don't think brown sugar will go with the berries. I add a touch of brown sugar to my vanilla custard to give it an almost caramelised sugar element. It has more of a richness to it than just sweetener.

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## ARYANTO (16/1/19)

Spyro said:


> Musk is simply to add a musk element to the mix. The brown sugar replaces supersweet.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 don't think the brown sugar is going to have the ''sweetness'' you're after.
Agree with @RichJB .

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## Spyro (16/1/19)

I can't stand super sweet so I'll probably just ditch the sugar then. Any recommendations on sweetening without sucralose? I truly appreciate all the advice given. 

Have decided to ditch the musk and will add brown sugar to a tester to see what happens. 

Maybe swap out the sweetener for another berry

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## RichJB (16/1/19)

Consider other fruits as well. A small amount (0.5% or so) of FA Pear will add both juiciness and sweetness without fighting with those assertive berry top notes. Some berry mixes can be dry so that extra bit of juiciness can help, depending on what you're aiming for. There are also certain jammy berries, such as Flv Boysenberry, which can add a bit of sweetness.

Marshmallow is often cited to add sweetness. Personally, fruits add more sweetness than marshmallow for me. But marshmallow adds maltol which can mute a bit. If your berry mix has sharp notes, the maltol can knock the edges off a notch. Even Strawberry Ripe is high in maltol and, at moderate percentages, will add a sweet berry note and help to blend the mix without being overtly strawberry.

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## GSM500 (16/1/19)

Spyro said:


> I can't stand super sweet so I'll probably just ditch the sugar then. Any recommendations on sweetening without sucralose? I truly appreciate all the advice given.
> 
> Have decided to ditch the musk and will add brown sugar to a tester to see what happens.
> 
> Maybe swap out the sweetener for another berry


I'd give Powdered Sugar by One on One a go. I don't have much experience with fruits but I have used this in a fruit mix and it was pretty good but I was aiming for a candied note with the fruit. I used it at 0.5%

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## Spyro (16/1/19)

RichJB said:


> Consider other fruits as well. A small amount (0.5% or so) of FA Pear will add both juiciness and sweetness without fighting with those assertive berry top notes. Some berry mixes can be dry so that extra bit of juiciness can help, depending on what you're aiming for. There are also certain jammy berries, such as Flv Boysenberry, which can add a bit of sweetness.
> 
> Marshmallow is often cited to add sweetness. Personally, fruits add more sweetness than marshmallow for me. But marshmallow adds maltol which can mute a bit. If your berry mix has sharp notes, the maltol can knock the edges off a notch. Even Strawberry Ripe is high in maltol and, at moderate percentages, will add a sweet berry note and help to blend the mix without being overtly strawberry.




I was reading up reviews on the WF sour Blue raz candy. A few said it was rather dry so I'll take that advice and pick up FA pear. Thanks for the guidance. I think I've set my recipe up the way I'd like it. I'll make a few variations and see where it takes me.

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## Vilaishima (16/1/19)

Eyhyl Maltol/Cotton Candy can work but at a low %. I am also not a Sucralose fan as it easily gives me that Canderel aftertaste but I do find that it only happens when used with certain flavours.

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## Silver (16/1/19)

RichJB said:


> As is HS Blueberry, which ID10-T recently described as being like vaping a blue neon sign.



Classic, lol!

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## Rude Rudi (17/1/19)

Wayne recently did a fantastic write up on WF - Sour Blue Raspberry Candy (subscriber content) with some helpful tips on how to make it shine.

All of the berries you selected contains an element of sweetness so I agree that sweetener is not entirely necessary here. The berry combo is great but can become linear - I suggest the addition of a "juicy" fruit like FA Fuji at 0.5 to break the berry monotony and bring a natural sweetness to cut through the inherent tartness of the berries.

The INW Shisha Raspberry is great but it is potent as hell. I'd drop it significantly or replace it with TFA Sweet Raspberry at a maximum of 2%. If you want a bit of mouthfeel, I suggest a splash of cream to achieve same. 

The Musk I'm afraid simply will not work here - it will kill the gentle berry nuances and completely dominate the mix - rather drop it...

Here is my suggestion:

HS - Blueberry 2%
INW - Shisha Raspberry 0.5%
WF - Sour Blue Raspberry Candy 4%
FA - Fuji 0.5

Optional
FA - Cream Fresh 1%

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## Spyro (26/1/19)

New Recipe as follows. Should arrive Tuesday and will post results as soon as I can. 

HS Blueberry 6%
CAP Blue Raspberry Cotton Candy 2%
INW Shisha Raspberry 1%
INW Cactus 0.5% (no FW pear in stock)
TFA Blueberry Candy 2%
WF Sour Blue Raspberry 2%

Total 13.5%

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## Resistance (26/1/19)

Add


Spyro said:


> New Recipe as follows. Should arrive Tuesday and will post results as soon as I can.
> 
> HS Blueberry 6%
> CAP Blue Raspberry Cotton Candy 2%
> ...


 Apple if you don't have pear or add it even with cactus added.
Also drop raspberry candy ,
Sour blue raspberry and blueberry candy by 1%and replace with apple.
In a test batch of course. And compare the two.
Cream also ads a full flavour twist as @Rude Rudi suggested
And @RichJB is right on the money about marshmello

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## zandernwn (30/1/19)

Spyro said:


> I can't stand super sweet so I'll probably just ditch the sugar then. Any recommendations on sweetening without sucralose? I truly appreciate all the advice given.
> 
> Have decided to ditch the musk and will add brown sugar to a tester to see what happens.
> 
> Maybe swap out the sweetener for another berry


Ethyl maltol will work famously

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## zandernwn (30/1/19)

RichJB said:


> What functions do the Musk and Brown Sugar fill in the recipe? Brown sugar is generally used as a bakery additive and musk tends to be a very assertive flavour. I can't say that it won't work with berries but it doesn't seem an intuitive combo for me.


Mmm im intrigued tho. If you are suing a fw blueberry or similar exessively floral berry then must may just work here. Its going to be a push but I am quite interested to find out how they will play off each other

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