# Alcohol in E-liquids



## OhmzRaw

I bought a few liquids from Skyblue which says it contains traces of alcohol. This is common in e-liquids. I want to know if this means Ethanol (Ethyl Alcohol) or normal alcohol?


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## Vapington

Quite a number of flavour concentrates contain trace amounts of ethyl alcohol. Many eliquid companies do not state this on their labels.

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## ReeZ

Is it possible to evaporate off ALL traces of alcohol from concentrates? It's difficult to diy using only flavours that don't have alcohol. I have tons of recipes I want to give a shot but can't because of the alcohol content. Thanks to all the vendors that list this.

I know alcohol has to used to extract certain flavours but if our local vendors made companies like tfa more aware of this they could perhaps work on certain alcohol free flavours where possible.
At the end of the day everyone wants an increase in sales and I'm sure concentrate and juice vendors will see a definite spike in sales on their juices/concentrates previously containing alcohol.

One juice I really want to try is ashybac by @Mike and I appreciate the fact that he has mentioned which of his juices contain alcohol. 'Ashybac alcohol free' and sales will go up guaranteed (counting my orders lol).


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## Mike

@ReeZ sadly it's not as easy to do this as one may think. I chatted to a chemist and we did some testing. Removing the alcohol alone is very difficult and the tests we did all came up pretty disappointing.

I'm sure if you contacted some vendors, they'd be willing to make a plan for you, but they probably cannot guarantee that it'll be at the same level as the original / other juices.

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## Vapington

Im sure by leaving the cap off the bottle for a while could evaporate alot of it but I don't know if it would get rid of it all im afraid


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## ReeZ

Yep I've been researching it. You can get out most of the alcohol from it but there'll still be trace amounts. So it's not possible at all to remove everything @Mike?

Lol maybe I should try flaming it Jamie Oliver style

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## Vapington

Flambe that juice hahaha

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## Mike

@ReeZ there are very, very small amounts. It's possible to get rid of all of them, but there are other chemicals and solvents with much lower boiling points (at a guess, 30° or so even, pressure dependant). Flaming the juice will remove more than just the alcohol and probably initiate other reactions. Boiling the alcohol off removed a lot of the flavour and generally just ruined things. The concentrate producers would get rid of it if they reasonably could - it's really not just that easy


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## Average vapor Joe

What is the reason you want to get rid of the alchohol?

Reactions: Can relate 1


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## Viper_SA

In strict chemical terms, glycerine is an alcohol......

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Mike

Generally in this context, it is specifically ethyl alcohol which is being discussed.


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## ReeZ

Alcohol (in fact all intoxicants) are considered forbidden in Islam. Even in quantities that do not intoxicate. Although It's use is allowed for medicinal purposes eg. Cough syrup.
Naturally extracted vanilla essence is made using alcohol and would therefore be considered forbidden.
The use of eliquids isn't considered a necessity (in terms of life or death) although to many of us it feels like that lol so if it contains alcohol will be haram.

Yes that is correct @Viper_SA.
The alcohol family is quite vast because of the way alcohol is grouped according to it's chemical structure.

However according to Islamic law the forbidden alcohol is specific to ethyl alcohol. This topic can go quite deep as even fruits can produce small quantities of ethyl alcohol as they ripen! Not haram in case you're wondering. 
Perfumes and many cosmetics contain alcohol which are not ethyl alcohol and are allowed.

There are many other solvents that can be used to make concentrates but since ethyl alcohol is the cheapest it's the most commonly used solvent. Pity.

However it's not feasible to change the process and incur additional costs for a minority... Or is it...?

Reactions: Like 4 | Informative 4


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## Viper_SA

Sorry @ReeZ, had no idea the alcohol was a faith thing, thought it was more a taste issue.


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## gman211991

@ReeZ I've been wondering this too as I am a food scientist and we work with flavours all the time and some of them are alcohol based but when we test the food no alcohol present. So I was wondering would vaping it intoxicate us as I am Muslim as well and also what is the % volume of alcohol that is present per bottle I'm thinking perhaps alcohol is evaporated upon vaping I'm no analytical chemist just asking. 

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## Mike

@gman211991 it could be that once diluted, there's too little alcohol to detect. This would most likely be the case with many e-liquids, although there are particles present, they'll be in an extremely low concentration.


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## gman211991

@Mike we need to find out what happens to the alcohol when the juice is vaped is it still ethyl alcohol? I sometimes hate myself for not opting to do food science with chemistry 

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## Derick

The problem is that the flavour recipe makers (TFA etc.) need ethyl alcohol to get some of the ingredients to combine. PG can only do so much in certain cases I'm afraid. So your favourite flavours without ethyl alcohol would separate and not combine - and consequently, taste rather gross I would imagine 

The other thing to remember, is that they use a real tiny amount of alcohol to achieve this - like less than 0.1% of the concentrated flavour. You are only going to use around 8% of that flavour in your mix, so it is going be in the parts per million range that we are talking about.

At that level, manufacturers are not obliged to disclose that it contains alcohol - so there are quite possibly plenty products out there with these trace amounts of alcohol that you could have consumed throughout your life.

I do however understand why you need to avoid it if you know about it

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## ReeZ

Viper_SA said:


> Sorry @ReeZ, had no idea the alcohol was a faith thing, thought it was more a taste issue.


No worries a lot of people aren't aware of this.

@gman211991 I remember reading somewhere that testing equipment can't pick up alcohol below certain trace levels even though it's present. @Derick you're correct I'm sure there's many foods we've eaten and even eat on a daily basis where alcohol is present but either, as in gmans experience they can't be picked or they're below a certain level whereby there's no need for them to be declared in the ingredients. A certain amount of ethyl alcohol in foods is considered acceptable because of the natural formation of it.

When we vape the alcohol just changes to from liquid to gas and there's only 1 way it can go... Into our lungs. You definitely won't get intoxicated by it and I doubt a blood alcohol test will even be able to pick it up because as @Derick said it's such tiny amounts that's it's in the ppm range.

I know some people might ask if it's such a small amount why bother.
My decision is based on the fact that all intoxicants are forbidden even at quantities that do not intoxicate.

However as alcohol is present in trace amounts in so many food products which we end up consuming knowingly or unknowingly I'm sure there is a religious ruling (fatwa) pertaining to it which I will find out.
I'm not sure if the ruling will pertain to ejuice containing alcohol, however I will post it here if/when I do get an answer. 

From my understanding if the alcohol is derived from grapes, dates or barely then it's use in even medicinal products is haram. But this can differ according to school of thought and I definitely don't qualify to make decisions using my (lack of) knowledge. However these days most ethyl alcohol is derived from maize.

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## Andre

Very interesting subject @ReeZ. No idea if this is authoritative, but found the following in

REPLIES TO INQUIRIES ABOUT THE 
Practical Laws of Islam

The English Version of
(Ajwibah al-Istiftā‘āt)

Grand Ayatollah
Sayyid Ali Hosseini Khamenei​

_Q1396. Is it permissible to smoke tobacco that is sprinkled with a kind of alcoholic drink?
And is it permissible to inhale its smoke?

A: There is no objection to it provided that smoking that kind of tobacco would
not, by the common view, be considered as though one is consuming an
intoxicating drink. Also, it should not lead to drunkenness or a considerable
harmful effect on one’s health._

Reactions: Informative 3


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## Mike

I had a long chat about this with a very close friend of mine. However he's Iraqi born and views might differ regionally. He is of the opinion that there is intention to be intoxicated and if the possibility is 0, he has no qualms with it.

However I had a colleague who would not use cutlery which had been used on non-halal food. So I do understand that individuals decide how stringently they live.

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## Derick

I think it is very much a personal thing, each person will have to decide for themselves.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## gman211991

ReeZ said:


> No worries a lot of people aren't aware of this.
> 
> @gman211991 I remember reading somewhere that testing equipment can't pick up alcohol below certain trace levels even though it's present. @Derick you're correct I'm sure there's many foods we've eaten and even eat on a daily basis where alcohol is present but either, as in gmans experience they can't be picked or they're below a certain level whereby there's no need for them to be declared in the ingredients. A certain amount of ethyl alcohol in foods is considered acceptable because of the natural formation of it.
> 
> When we vape the alcohol just changes to from liquid to gas and there's only 1 way it can go... Into our lungs. You definitely won't get intoxicated by it and I doubt a blood alcohol test will even be able to pick it up because as @Derick said it's such tiny amounts that's it's in the ppm range.
> 
> I know some people might ask if it's such a small amount why bother.
> My decision is based on the fact that all intoxicants are forbidden even at quantities that do not intoxicate.
> 
> However as alcohol is present in trace amounts in so many food products which we end up consuming knowingly or unknowingly I'm sure there is a religious ruling (fatwa) pertaining to it which I will find out.
> I'm not sure if the ruling will pertain to ejuice containing alcohol, however I will post it here if/when I do get an answer.
> 
> From my understanding if the alcohol is derived from grapes, dates or barely then it's use in even medicinal products is haram. But this can differ according to school of thought and I definitely don't qualify to make decisions using my (lack of) knowledge. However these days most ethyl alcohol is derived from maize.


I totally agree therefore rather avoid if unsure Bru. Would be easier if vendors just notified us before hand as they have in the past

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## ReeZ

@Andre, the problem with the internet these days is that there's so much misinformation out there. When it comes to religious matters I rarely check on the internet, and being a Muslim, the few times I have done so I was shocked at what I've read!



Andre said:


> Very interesting subject @ReeZ. No idea if this is authoritative, but found the following in
> 
> REPLIES TO INQUIRIES ABOUT THE
> Practical Laws of Islam
> 
> The English Version of
> (Ajwibah al-Istiftā‘āt)
> 
> Grand Ayatollah
> Sayyid Ali Hosseini Khamenei​
> 
> _Q1396. Is it permissible to smoke tobacco that is sprinkled with a kind of alcoholic drink?
> And is it permissible to inhale its smoke?
> 
> A: There is no objection to it provided that smoking that kind of tobacco would
> not, by the common view, be considered as though one is consuming an
> intoxicating drink. Also, it should not lead to drunkenness or a considerable
> harmful effect on one’s health._



None of the Islamic scholars I know will ever condone this, however he is entitled to his view. I always urge people to ask a learned Islamic scholar (of which there are many in South Africa) rather than check on the net. With that said there are legitimate websites.

@Mike yes contamination between halal and haram food products is a huge issue which is sometimes overlooked, but as you and Derick said it's a personal thing and each person will have their own interpretation of how they should live their lives.

At the end of the day none of us are perfect and it's an even bigger sin to judge someone because that's up to God to do.

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## Mike

Absolutely @ReeZ. I was just offering a little perspective from a person who grew up in an entirely Muslim country.

I however personally don't necessarily agree with cookware and cutlery being "contaminated". If I have a Muslim guest, I will clean everything as I do for myself and make sure my ingredients are all halal. I'd be quite offended if that were an issue to my guest. Thankfully I only know once person who is so strict with their choices.


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## ReeZ

@Mike you take extra precaution to ensure nothing gets contaminated which is not something your average Joe or restaurant will do. Eg, they'll cut your vegetarian pizza with the same pizza cutter that was used to cut a bacon and pineapple pizza immediately before that. that is the contamination I refer to, and is just one example.

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## Mike

@ReeZ, sorry I didn't explain myself well enough in the first place  I know a chap who if he comes to my house, will insist on me using cookware that has never been used with non-halal items - similarly with cutlery.

I agree 100% in terms of cross contamination in that sense though, as it applies to many other things (vegetarianism, crohns, shellfish allergies etc)


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## ReeZ

Mike said:


> @ReeZ, sorry I didn't explain myself well enough in the first place  I know a chap who if he comes to my house, will insist on me using cookware that has never been used with non-halal items - similarly with cutlery.
> 
> I agree 100% in terms of cross contamination in that sense though, as it applies to many other things (vegetarianism, crohns, shellfish allergies etc)



Ah i see what you're saying. Guess it comes down to what you previously said, individuals decide how stringently they live

Reactions: Agree 1


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## MOBSTER

Hi, 

I was interested in this topic and actually stumbled upon this thread via a google search and can I just say I was pleasantly surprised to see how helpful, tolerant and just civilised the members here are.

It is so refreshing to see people from different faiths respond to a topic based on a essentially religious concern in such a helpful manner, trying to understand the problem rather than responding in an ignorant and insensitive manner as we so often see is the case these days.

Well done and Thank you!

Reactions: Like 7 | Winner 4


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## Rusty

Hi Guys .

Ok so i am a Muslim and i have been in this debate for a while and iv come to my doubt being cleared . But that's just me .
I vape anything as long its not intoxicating alcohol . I DIY as well so i had to clear this .
Ethyl alcohol is allowed from my understanding. In Islam we are not allowed alcohol if it is derived from Grape or dates or is intoxicating .
I have contacted a Muslim council and they have confirmed this .I then emailed TFA and CAP and they responded saying that The Ethyl alcohol is derived from Corn and is not intoxicating .

From that my doubt was cleared and i Vape away . Please guys , i am not giving you permission to say i said vape it so you'll can . All im saying is that my doubt is cleared from that .... and if that give you peace of mind then go ahead.

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## Faheem777

Abdul Haque Maiter said:


> Hi Guys .
> 
> Ok so i am a Muslim and i have been in this debate for a while and iv come to my doubt being cleared . But that's just me .
> I vape anything as long its not intoxicating alcohol . I DIY as well so i had to clear this .
> Ethyl alcohol is allowed from my understanding. In Islam we are not allowed alcohol if it is derived from Grape or dates or is intoxicating .
> I have contacted a Muslim council and they have confirmed this .I then emailed TFA and CAP and they responded saying that The Ethyl alcohol is derived from Corn and is not intoxicating .
> 
> From that my doubt was cleared and i Vape away . Please guys , i am not giving you permission to say i said vape it so you'll can . All im saying is that my doubt is cleared from that .... and if that give you peace of mind then go ahead.



I've always stayed clear from concentrates containing alcohol. I just haven't had time to investigate it properly. So thanks for the info! Btw, which Muslim council did you contact? Also, do you know if ethyl alcohol the only type of alcohol used in liquid concentrates?

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## Rusty

@Faheem777 , i checked with Jamiatul Ulama KZN .
Im sure its just Ethanol . The only reason they would put Alcohol is if they actually creating a Alcohol Profile . If so i think our juice vendors shou stipulte it .

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## auriga1000

ethanol also derived from sugar cane. I believe that is also not acceptable.
edit: 

Synthetic alcohols and all alcohol besides those which are not extracted from dates and grapes in foods are permissible to use and consume as long as it is not used to intoxicate.

http://daruliftabirmingham.co.uk/ethanol-alcohol-being-extracted-from-sugar-canes/

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## Rusty

Sugar cane should not be a problem .


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## shabbar

imo , i vape all juices.

the traces of alcohol evaporate by the time the e juice is packaged, and if there are any left it surely will evaporate at the temps we vape at.

but hey thats just me


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## Silver

MOBSTER said:


> Hi,
> 
> I was interested in this topic and actually stumbled upon this thread via a google search and can I just say I was pleasantly surprised to see how helpful, tolerant and just civilised the members here are.
> 
> It is so refreshing to see people from different faiths respond to a topic based on a essentially religious concern in such a helpful manner, trying to understand the problem rather than responding in an ignorant and insensitive manner as we so often see is the case these days.
> 
> Well done and Thank you!



Welcome to the forum @MOBSTER 
Thanks for the kind words.

When you get a chance, feel free to introduce yourself to the community at the following thread:
http://www.ecigssa.co.za/introduce-yourselves.t24/


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## auriga1000

Abdul Haque Maiter said:


> Sugar cane should not be a problem .


yep, i updated my post with the edit.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Muchis

Hi All, 

a bit of a thread revival.... I have been doing some research on which concentrates contains alcohol/ethanol.

Flavour Art confirmed that non of their concentrates contain alcohol.

Other flavour houses have also provided feedback.

I'll try to upload them a bit later 

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## Muchis

Liquid barn


















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## Muchis

Inawera








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## Muchis

TFA state the ingredients on their website and Flavour West have provided an excel spreadsheet which I cannot seem to upload.... Pm and I'll make it available 

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## Silver

Thanks for those updates @Muchis 
Im sure it adds value to the ongoing tracking of alcohol in flavours!

The forum software doesnt recognise spreadsheets.
Just to a CTRL C and CTRL V - ie copy the screen from the spreadsheet and just paste into the editor box here. 
That should work. It should paste it as an image. 
I did that a few times before and it worked from Microsoft Excel

Just use the normal browser, not tapatalk

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## Muchis

Cool, will attempt that when I get to me laptop 

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## Jean claude Vaaldamme



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## Muchis

Hi


below is the list of our flavors that contain alcohol.

it would be grain alcohol


thanks so much, Linda


Absinthe Flavor **

Absinthe II Flavor

Acai Flavor

Apple (Tart Granny Smith) Flavor **

Berry Mix Flavor

Bitter Nut Extra Flavor

Black Tea Flavor**

Blueberry (Wild) Flavor

Boysenberry Deluxe Flavor

Bubblegum (Fruity) Flavor **

Butterscotch Flavor

Chai Tea Flavor **

Cherry Extract Flavor**

Chicken and Waffle Flavor

Chocolate Flavor

Cinnamon Flavor **

Cinnamon Red Hot Flavor**

Citrus Punch Flavor **

Coffee (Kona) Flavor

Cola Fizz Flavor**

Cola Flavor**

Cola Syrup Flavor**

Cranberry Flavor**

Cranberry Sauce Flavor

Creme de Menthe Flavor **

Cucumber Deluxe Flavor

DK Tobacco Base Flavor **

Dulce de Leche Flavor **

DX Coconut Flavor

DX Peach (Juicy) Flavor

Earl Grey Tea Flavor **

Ginger Ale Flavor **

Gingerbread Extra Ginger Flavor

Gingerbread Flavor **

Greek Yogurt Flavor

Horchata Flavor **

Horchata Smooth Flavor

Horehound Flavor **

Hpno Type Flavor **

Irish Cream Flavor **

Irish Cream II Flavor

Jackfruit Flavor

Kentucky Bourbon Flavor **

Key Lime Flavor **

Lemon (water soluble) Flavor **

Lemon Lime Flavor**

Lemonade Cookie Flavor

M Type Premium Flavor

Maple Flavor**

Milk Chocolate Flavor

Mojito Flavor **

Mojito Havana Flavor

Nectarine Flavor

Orange Cream Bar Flavor

Orange Cream Flavor **

Orange Mandarin Flavor

Peach (Juicy) Flavor

Peppermint Flavor **

Pizza Flavor **

Pomegranate Deluxe

Pumpkin Flavor

Pumpkin Spice Flavor **

Quince Flavor **

Rainbow Drops Flavor (NF)

Rainbow Drops Flavor **

Rainbow Sherbet Flavor

Ripe Banana Flavor **

Root Beer Flavor (PG) **

Root Beer Float Flavor

Ry4 Type Flavor**

Slim Mint Cookie Flavor

Tiramisu Flavor

Tutti-Frutti Flavor **

Violet Candy Flavor **

Waffle Flavor **

Western Flavor

White Chocolate Flavor



The Perfumer's Apprentice

& The Flavor Apprentice

170 Technology Circle

Scotts Valley, CA 95066

(831) 316-7137

www.perfumersapprentice.com




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## CMMACKEM

ReeZ said:


> Is it possible to evaporate off ALL traces of alcohol from concentrates? It's difficult to diy using only flavours that don't have alcohol. I have tons of recipes I want to give a shot but can't because of the alcohol content. Thanks to all the vendors that list this.
> 
> I know alcohol has to used to extract certain flavours but if our local vendors made companies like tfa more aware of this they could perhaps work on certain alcohol free flavours where possible.
> At the end of the day everyone wants an increase in sales and I'm sure concentrate and juice vendors will see a definite spike in sales on their juices/concentrates previously containing alcohol.
> 
> One juice I really want to try is ashybac by @Mike and I appreciate the fact that he has mentioned which of his juices contain alcohol. 'Ashybac alcohol free' and sales will go up guaranteed (counting my orders lol).



I believe that alcohol in ejuice evaporates when it is steeped longer than usual. I could be wrong but I was told by a well known juice maker.

Reactions: Informative 1


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