# Mixing small percentages



## Bill (10/8/17)

Hi All,

I recently started DIY and came across something and interested if others are experiencing the same.

Specifically when mixing small percentages for 50ml and below. I am mixing by weight and some recipes sometime require 1% and lower of certain concentrates. I find when I am mixing 30ml or below of e-liquid, typically when trying a new recipe the smaller quantities doesn't seem to move the counter on the scale eg 1% of INW Cactus in a typical 30ml bottle equates to 0.3g of concentrate.

I tried using the drops measurement but find that its not very accurate.

Keen to hear if this is an issue for other members.

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## RichJB (10/8/17)

0.3g should not be a problem, decent scales should register all the way down to 0.04g. If I have an ingredient that needs 0.1g or less, I count drops. I go by the general rule that a drop is around 0.025g. So four drops per 0.1g. 

I have found that if you add drop by drop very slowly with intervals between the drops, the scale will sometimes not move. That is a problem for very small amounts. For larger amounts like 0.2g and above, I've found that a brief 'splurge' of 3-5 drops in quick succession will 'shock' the scale into registering. However, you can't do that where you only need 0.09g for example. So then I count drops. It's not entirely accurate but it's better than having no idea at all of how much you've added. 

Pro tip from skiddlz: if the scale doesn't move after you've added several drops, tap it very lightly. It will often reset to show the correct amount. Or thereabouts.

Also don't consider the juice to be final at the point of mixing. If you're adding very small amounts of cinnamon, the scale doesn't show it and your juice then doesn't have enough cinnamon taste when you get to vaping it, just add a few more drops. Your taste buds take priority over both the recipe and the scale reading.

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## DanielSLP (10/8/17)

Are you using a scale that measure two decimal places or only one?

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## Raindance (10/8/17)

RichJB said:


> 0.3g should not be a problem, decent scales should register all the way down to 0.04g. If I have an ingredient that needs 0.1g or less, I count drops. I go by the general rule that a drop is around 0.025g. So four drops per 0.1g.
> 
> I have found that if you add drop by drop very slowly with intervals between the drops, the scale will sometimes not move. That is a problem for very small amounts. For larger amounts like 0.2g and above, I've found that a brief 'splurge' of 3-5 drops in quick succession will 'shock' the scale into registering. However, you can't do that where you only need 0.09g for example. So then I count drops. It's not entirely accurate but it's better than having no idea at all of how much you've added.
> 
> ...


Thanks Richjb. I noticed the same isue trying to make small quantities of complex mixes and thought my scale was the only one having problems under 0.05g. Not a dealbreaker but was cursing my bad scale luck in any case. The 4drops to ml advice eases any remaining concerns.

Thanks, regards

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## Eisenhorn (10/8/17)

Have the same issue, have a scale that goes to two decimal places. I found that blowing on the scale helps as it moves things around sufficiently so that when it settles it reads the new extra weight. 

Sent from my F3111 using Tapatalk

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## aktorsyl (10/8/17)

I just drip the first 3 drops all at the same time. Like one right after the other without any pause.. almost like a slight squeeze. The scale then realises something is happening and shows the weight for all 3 drops. After that you can add 1 drop at a time.

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## craigb (10/8/17)

Eisenhorn said:


> Have the same issue, have a scale that goes to two decimal places. I found that blowing on the scale helps as it moves things around sufficiently so that when it settles it reads the new extra weight.
> 
> Sent from my F3111 using Tapatalk


Yip, a good blow fixes many a problem

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## RichJB (10/8/17)

Raindance said:


> The 4drops to ml advice eases any remaining concerns.



It also depends on the dropper. I'd probably go 6 drops on a PET needle-nose dropper as those produce smaller drops.

The other thing is to go conservative. You can always add more but you can't take out. For many ingredients, the small percentages are a subtle touch. In many recipes, you'll find FW Hazelnut and FA Meringue both at 0.5%. So 0.15g in a 30ml. I can usually get the scale to register for that amount. If not, I do six drops HDPE or 8 drops PET and I'm in the ballpark. If it's a bit under or over, it's not going to kill anything.

Where you need to be careful is with things like Flv Rich Cinnamon, FA Honey, Inw Waffle or Cap Super Sweet which all hit really hard even at tiny percentages. So even going slightly over can kill the juice. In that case I'd either make a dilution (Honey, Waffle) or under-add and then adjust to taste once the juice has steeped. Cap Super Sweet is often added at 0.25% in which case I don't even try to measure it on the scale. I just add one drop per 30ml and that's that. If it's not quite sweet enough, I'll add another drop after steeping.

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## ivc_mixer (10/8/17)

It is for reasons such as this why I want to get myself a R3000 scale but alas the budget just does not want to play along (no matter how much I try and convince her  ), so I suffer the same as you and apply the tips and tricks as mentioned above and then pray for the best.

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## Gonzilla (10/8/17)

RichJB said:


> It also depends on the dropper. I'd probably go 6 drops on a PET needle-nose dropper as those produce smaller drops.
> 
> The other thing is to go conservative. You can always add more but you can't take out. For many ingredients, the small percentages are a subtle touch. In many recipes, you'll find FW Hazelnut and FA Meringue both at 0.5%. So 0.15g in a 30ml. I can usually get the scale to register for that amount. If not, I do six drops HDPE or 8 drops PET and I'm in the ballpark. If it's a bit under or over, it's not going to kill anything.
> 
> Where you need to be careful is with things like Flv Rich Cinnamon, FA Honey, Inw Waffle or Cap Super Sweet which all hit really hard even at tiny percentages. So even going slightly over can kill the juice. In that case I'd either make a dilution (Honey, Waffle) or under-add and then adjust to taste once the juice has steeped. Cap Super Sweet is often added at 0.25% in which case I don't even try to measure it on the scale. I just add one drop per 30ml and that's that. If it's not quite sweet enough, I'll add another drop after steeping.



I actually over-sweetened some juice recently due to the 0.25% CAP Super Sweet thing. I also get around 0.025 grams a drop from the HDPE bottles, a little less than that from the PET drippers. The recipe was for a 30ml bottle with 0.25% SS coming in at 0.08 grams. The notes called for 1 drop of super sweet per 30ml but the calculator was asking for more like 3-4 drops super sweet to get up to 0.08 grams 

I wasn't thinking straight and had forgotten the notes and just went off the calculator numbers. If anyone is looking to vape straight sugar and is in the garden route hit me up...

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## Eisenhorn (10/8/17)

Hehe, also did that mistake in the past. Didn't know how potent CAP Super sweet was. So I thought I quite like sweet juices, so I gave a very liberal squirt into a 20ml bottle... It was like snorting powder sugar  

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## Andre (10/8/17)

What I do with small amounts is not resetting the scale from the previous measurement. E.g. if the scale have just weighed 0.3 gram, I just add the small volume required to that. Seems it then registers much easier. So, if a recipe requires a lot of small amounts, I do not reset at all, just add up in my head as I go along.
EDIT: If I remember correctly, this was a tip from @rogue zombie. It works.

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## Gorvian (10/8/17)

use pipettes or syringes 1ml,5ml and 10ml+ and mix per ml ... problem solved. 
My 2c.

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## RichJB (10/8/17)

I find mixing by volume is inherently more inaccurate. I can tell the difference between 0.67 and 0.68g just by looking at the numbers on my scale display. Can I tell the difference between 0.67 and 0.68ml just by looking at the meniscus in my syringe? I would need very keen eyesight for that.

When mixing with syringes, I can attach a thin needle (doesn't contain much liquid), a thick needle (contains more liquid) or I can use no needle at all (no liquid in the needle). Does the ml calibration of the syringe take this into account? And then, after I have dispensed the liquid from the syringe into the mixing bottle, some stays behind in the syringe and needle. When washing up syringes after mixing, I get a strong smell of the concentrates that they contained. That is flavour droplets that should have gone into the juice but didn't. 

Then there's the washing up. If I mix seven different juices in a session, I might be using 22 different concentrates. So I have to wash up 25 syringes - 22 for concentrates and one each for nic, VG and PG - when I'm finished. When mixing by weight, washing up is zero. No implements or containers are used. Everything goes straight from the ingredient bottle into the mixing bottle. Overall, I find mixing by weight to be a lot more efficient and accurate.

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## aktorsyl (10/8/17)

Andre said:


> What I do with small amounts is not resetting the scale from the previous measurement. E.g. if the scale have just weighed 0.3 gram, I just add the small volume required to that. Seems it then registers much easier. So, if a recipe requires a lot of small amounts, I do not reset at all, just add up in my head as I go along.
> EDIT: If I remember correctly, this was a tip from @rogue zombie. It works.


Guys. This is the way to do it.
Absolutely this.

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## Bill (10/8/17)

some great tips here, thanks for all the info.

I will probably try a few mixes this weekend and try implementing some of these tips, will report back to which one works best for me.

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## Sash (10/8/17)

Agree 110% with @RichJB this covers everything to be worried about.

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