# I love you guys but seriously? This is pushing it all the way to the top



## Waine

http://www.sirvape.co.za/collections/new/products/coil-empire-premium-fused-claptons

I buy 99% of my vaping gear from Sir Vape, and I have never skimped. I support them all the way. But seriously, R120 for two coils in a fancy little bottle? Let's get real. But this is not directed at Sir Vape.

It tells me one thing. With the vaping market reaching a massive peak in sales, an explosion of new products, and innovative ideas, people are thinking up novel ways to crack it quick, big and easy. But some manufacturers are just jumping too fast on the bandwagon. Worse are those who fall for it.


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Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Funny 1 | Can relate 1 | Dislike 1


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## Rob Fisher

That's the beauty of the free market system... everyone is free to buy stuff or not... for someone like me who is not a handyman type and has no intention of buying a drill, tons of different wire, swivels etc the chance to buy a decent set of claptons is awesome... and if you compare R65 for a commercial coil which is pretty crap then R60 a coil for a fancy one that is gonna last way longer than the commercial coil seems like a win to me.

Reactions: Like 5 | Agree 10 | Winner 1 | Can relate 1


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## VapeDude

Pretty sure the gasPhase Alien Fused Claptons used to cost more than that and ppl still bought them

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Reactions: Agree 1


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## Clouds4Days

I hear you @Waine if its got to do with vaping aparently doesnt matter what the prices are, it sells. Like uncle @Rob Fisher said its a Free Market so one is free too choose to spend the money or not.

Myself and few other members are also jumping on the band wagon if you would like you can join us Waine, we need as many members as possible.

Its a whole new experience to vaping where one doesnt need a mod or tank to vape you. You can vape straight out the bottle.

I now present for the first time on Ecigssa.....




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You say wow R550.00 thats expensive.....
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Its a lengthy process but it pays off cause its R550.00.... I see now you starting to say wow R550.00 doesn't seem that bad now.

If i havent convinced you yet than you will be convinced now...
You need no vape gear with Fart in a Bottle all you need is a Bottle of Fart in a Bottle to enjoy this amazing product straight out the bottle...




Wow ....
Just look at him enjoying that Fart in a Bottle.
You can get yours today from all leading vape shops...
So go now and grab one today....

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Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 2 | Funny 23 | Informative 1


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## Smoky Jordan

Yoh that guy needs help

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Daniel

All jokes aside I also don't get it. I'd much rather spend R120 on a bottle of juice than two coils sheesh. I suppose you have to take into account the time it takes to make the coil, someone has to sit and make these so technically it's a 'custom made' coil


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## boxerulez

How long does it take to make a proper clapton from scratch? now how much do your earn per hour at work? Do the math and get back to us?

I would never pay that because i am perfectly happy with 24gauge wire coils.

Buuut if you want claptons... and quality ones.... its your best bet as a beginner.

Sent from my Serpent Minikin

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Can relate 1


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## RichJB

Daniel said:


> All jokes aside I also don't get it. I'd much rather spend R120 on a bottle of juice than two coils sheesh



I'd much rather spend R30 on a bottle of DIY juice and R1 each on two DIY coils. (<--- cheap git) 



boxerulez said:


> now how much do your earn per hour at work?



I suppose it raises the question of whether coils are better made by a machine or human, and what sort of job satisfaction a guy would have from rolling 200 Claptons a day. It's not a job I'd relish.

As long as manufacturers aren't colluding/price-fixing and driving consumers towards a certain price bracket, I think it's all good. We can get boxes of machine-made coils for R5 each so the free market mechanism is working well and consumers can find options to suit whatever budget they have. If the manufacturer can get enough customers who buy at that price, more power to him.


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## Vape_r

I honestly don't understand how you're so shocked about this price? Have you ever tried making a fused Clapton that comes out the exact same each time, and looks like this? 
Another thing that a lot of people don't understand is that these coils aren't made to last a week like the 26/32 Clapton coils that you make at home. I've had a pair of these coils for about two months in my goon, and if you want I could post a picture of them, they still look brand new. 

So I don't understand how people will pay 80 rand for a tfv8 coil that lasts around 2 weeks, but complain about paying this for a coil that will last longer than 2 months without a doubt. 

But like @Rob Fisher said it's a free market, you buy it if you like what you see and you don't buy it if you don't like it.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


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## BillW

Waine said:


> http://www.sirvape.co.za/collections/new/products/coil-empire-premium-fused-claptons
> 
> I buy 99% of my vaping gear from Sir Vape, and I have never skimped. I support them all the way. But seriously, R120 for two coils in a fancy little bottle? Let's get real. But this is not directed at Sir Vape.
> 
> It tells me one thing. With the vaping market reaching a massive peak in sales, an explosion of new products, and innovative ideas, people are thinking up novel ways to crack it quick, big and easy. But some manufacturers are just jumping too fast on the bandwagon. Worse are those who fall for it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Get over it mate. 
Sounds like you are taking a stab at the vendor?
Either buy it or don't? If you have any experience with these types of coils, you would know the time it takes to make them, not to mention the amount of high end quality wire that is used.




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Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mac75

Out of interest. The material cost to make one 26/38 kanthal fused ni80 coil similar to the one being mentioned is a whole R8.20 per coil - Tmess wrap and gphase core 

So add the labor and attention to detail. 
Nice packaging. 

And the price is not so bad for a prebuilt coil. 

My 2c 


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Reactions: Like 1


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## TheCasualVapour

If I remember correctly, pre Vape meet Ct last month, The creator Yusuf Cape Vapor sold these directly for 60 randellas,Zeki from Voodoo sold them for 80 at the meet.120 from Sir vape,Durbs is very far from Ct and you know these vape stores have to pay for the Stores hence the prices....


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## Clouds4Days

TheCasualVapour said:


> If I remember correctly, pre Vape meet Ct last month, The creator Yusuf Cape Vapor sold these directly for 60 randellas,Zeki from Voodoo sold them for 80 at the meet.120 from Sir vape,Durbs is very far from Ct and you know these vape stores have to pay for the Stores hence the prices....



Your not helping the argument 
So basically the coils have been smacked with 100% profit ontop sounds like the norm here in S.A


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## Ashley A

Well I think there is that market but the OP and I are not part of that market. I heard prices of R9 per dual coil and then thought I might as well kust buy them than go through the hassle of building. This is a little more than what I used to pay for Protank and Aspire coils back in the day before going deep into building.

Looking at the prices, I think 2 sets of coils gets a beginner a coilmaster kit and 10 meters of Clapton. He'll master building with it on the first meter and then have 5 sets of dual coils for that money including the wastage of the learning curb. As far as building goes, it literally takes under a minute to build now. The time goes on fitting and wicking whichyou have to do with those pre-built anyway.

As an extra, just imagine messing up an install, putting 1 leg in too long and snipping or something like that. Alot of money down the drain and stress to get it right the first time and thinking about topping up that cart for delivery to make it viable for delivery.

This make have a short term market at those prices bit I dont see it being sustainable. Think of how mod prices have dropped. They used to retail around 400% markup a couple years ago and we bought, I bought. Then we started shipping ourselves from Heaven Gifts, Fasttech etc. I even did extras as a self warranty and had good experiences without faulty items and then sold the extras at half local retail and got my stuff free. The demand dropped and now prices are around 150% at credible vendors so we willing to support those prices. Honestly, I think R5 per coil is a fair price but that's my opinion

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## Pindyman

First things first.... Has the OP bought a set and used these coils...i have been using the same set of coils in my avo and goon for the last 3 months and the vape and flavor our from them is just as good as the first day I installed them. I have previously and will continue to purchase the coils because they are just that damn good...

For those that feel the cost is too much... No one is forcing u to purchase the coils it is a free country but u know what... Put on ur big girl panties and stop crying about it... Or at least purchase a set use them and then comment... Don't just throw out comments if u have no idea about the item... 

Just my 2c as well

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## Clouds4Days

Ashley A said:


> , I think R5 per coil is a fair price but that's my opinion



R5 a coil.... 

Gee wiz they are heavy priced but lets not be ridiculous now

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Clouds4Days

I think this thread argument should have ended long ago... After uncle @Rob Fisher posted to be exacted.

As mentioned this this is a free world so if its expensive and you not happy paying X amount then move along and go find cheaper.

The End

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2


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## Ashley A

Clouds4Days said:


> R5 a coil....
> 
> Gee wiz they are heavy priced but lets not be ridiculous now


You are the market. Glad you enjoy them.


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## Ashley A

Pindyman said:


> ... 3 months and the vape and flavor our from them is just as good as the first day I installed them...



Gosh dude, I've got 6 coils that are over a year old and still give a perfect vape and they probably cost R5 in total.


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## Ashley A

BTW, I see this is on the Sir Vape subforum and my comments are in no way directed at Sir Vape. I have seen much worse pricing on other sites. I think this thread should be moved to a more general forum. It's just coincidence that the OP happened to pick that particular product at Sir Vape.


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## VapeDude

BillW said:


> Get over it mate.
> Sounds like you are taking a stab at the vendor?
> Either buy it or don't? If you have any experience with these types of coils, you would know the time it takes to make them, not to mention the amount of high end quality wire that is used.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


In what way was he taking a stab at the vendor. Get over yourself - you trying to create more drama here

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Reactions: Like 2


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## Clouds4Days

Ashley A said:


> You are the market. Glad you enjoy them.



No ways bud i wont pay that price either  it is very expensive and i too dont see any sense as my own home made coils last 2 months plus also.

If people buy then good for them its what they choose. Everyone too their own

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 2


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## VandaL

I stole a couple of these coils at vapecon (#cuzthisisafrica) and am still using them in my azeroth, dry burn like once a week and they appear like new. The maker only uses premium Kanthal wire, not chinesium like UD etc

Reactions: Like 3 | Creative 1


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## Zeki Hilmi

I've never known an industry to moan and complain so much. It's ludicrous!!!I've just come back doing a weekly shop and bought Schweppes soda water from Checkers. It cost R16.50 a bottle. Here by my local cafe it's R17.50... This is life. I don't moan about it I decide where I'm going to buy today.

Reactions: Like 5 | Agree 3 | Useful 1


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## Gazzacpt

I use these coils. I don't mind paying for them because just to buy the wire will cost more, then the ball ache of making the things.......
I do get them cheaper though maybe it was a pre launch price.

There is another maker selling coils for R260 + so I don't know why people are moaning.

Oh and name calling is moronic please don't do it.

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## VapeDude

BillW said:


> Says the one who posted this dumb shit, guess we both morons hey.. why not make a post about the 7k mods some vendors are selling? And then how expensive Romany creams are these days.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I just didn't see ANY indication of him attacking the vendor. No need to stir more kak than is needed


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## Waine

BillW said:


> Get over it mate.
> Sounds like you are taking a stab at the vendor?
> Either buy it or don't? If you have any experience with these types of coils, you would know the time it takes to make them, not to mention the amount of high end quality wire that is used.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


@BillW If you read and understood the tone of my post you will observe that I am not taking a stab at Sir Vape. (The vendor) I buy all my vape gear there, I always support them and sing their praises as I work a few kilometres away from them. As much as it is a free market, I am entitled to express my opinion on this forum. The thrust of my post is where are we heading when we can now buy 2 coils for R120?

Have you never in your life once claimed that something is too expensive?

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## RiaanRed

I am a coil builder, and I know the creator of these coils. He ONLY uses Twisted messes wire that NO ONE in SA wants to sell for cheaper than FULL retail. And 500ft is almost R500. 
Then you have the packaging and the labels, then you have a day job and you can ONLY build coils at night so you don't spend any time with your family, then you need to coil them all, package them and courier it. 
Anyone can make a fused clapton apparently and it will NOT cost you much but we DO NOT use cheap wire or cheap products to make these coils and if you can make it cheaper, do it! 
Everything in life has a price and a buyer if you don't want to pay the price then you are not the right buyer.
People have the tendency to think there is no labor involved in coil making but in actual fact it requires concentration and actual hands to make these coils not to talk about the tools involved.
Like someone else said there is coil makers selling some coils for almost R300 a set and that is their price, Pay it or you don`t vape it! Or build it yourself. 
ANY Coil builder started as a passionate vaper that wanted to best flavor and the most exotic builds and shared photos and people wanted it, know matter the price.
This is just my opinion!

Reactions: Like 7 | Agree 6 | Winner 6


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## Gazzacpt

Waine said:


> @BillW For starters, I am not "Under it" - "mate"... so get off your high horse. If you read and understood the tone of my post you will observe that I am not taking a stab at Sir Vape. (The vendor) I buy all my vape gear there, I always support them and sing their praises as I work a few kilometres away from them. As much as it is a free market, I am entitled to express my opinion on this forum. The thrust of my post is where are we heading when we can now buy 2 coils for R120?
> 
> Have you never in your life once claimed that something is too expensive?


There have been people selling coils at more than double this price and people were buying. This is reasonable.

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## Silver

Hi guys

While I certainly appreciate the passion about the topic at hand and the enthusiasm of your opinions on the matter, *please can I draw everyone's attention to one of ECIGSSA's posting rules - which says you must not get personal.*

Several posts above have been edited or removed. Please refrain from becoming personal or calling people names etc. It only makes yourself (and the forum) look bad.

If you haven't read the rules or need a refresher, I suggest you go read them again:
http://www.ecigssa.co.za/ecigssa-forum-posting-rules.t5319/

Thanks

Reactions: Like 5 | Agree 2


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## Pixstar

My 2c: When I read the OP I did not get the impression he was knocking the vendor, he was merely expressing his own opinion and made that clear.
Pre-made coils of this nature are not cheap but as stated we have the choice of not buying them.
Yeah, for example a R7k stab wood mod is also expensive but it all depends on what YOUR budget allows and what YOUR perception of said item's value is.
As a side, I held and fondled a R7k mod not too long ago and was so tempted, but once I factored in the cost of a divorce I decided not to go ahead.
So IMHO, at the end of the day it's all about affordability and personal perceptions of value.

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## Sir Vape

Lately


Waine said:


> http://www.sirvape.co.za/collections/new/products/coil-empire-premium-fused-claptons
> 
> I buy 99% of my vaping gear from Sir Vape, and I have never skimped. I support them all the way. But seriously, R120 for two coils in a fancy little bottle? Let's get real. But this is not directed at Sir Vape.
> 
> It tells me one thing. With the vaping market reaching a massive peak in sales, an explosion of new products, and innovative ideas, people are thinking up novel ways to crack it quick, big and easy. But some manufacturers are just jumping too fast on the bandwagon. Worse are those who fall for it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Waine I have a set for you for FREE. Pop into the shop and try them out and you will see why these are possible one of the best set of coils I have ever used hence the price of R120. R60 for a professional made coil is giveaway mate and if you maintain them they will last you ages . I think vapers in SA need to start realising what it takes to start, build and maintain a brand. It takes capital and most of the serious guys that are offering juices and products at international level are not ripping you off or making a fortune as some think. It's about the passion and offering people the best quality items at competitive pricing.

I do hear you though there are some people out there jumping on the bandwagon but hey it's going to happen. My suggestion is do your homework on a product before bashing it and see what actually goes into it first. It's not as simple as hey I got a coil or a juice, slap a label and BOOM!!! I have a product. Much more goes into it if the person is serious about it and making ones money back takes time (if we want to talk about the profit thing as everyone seems to be harping on about). I wish it was as easy as that but in saying that I personally haven't or wouldn't release a product that I don't care about. I sometimes break even on items just to know I have given people what they have been looking for because at the end of the day the buzz I get means more to me than the money. I can stand proud next to something i have created and know that people are loving it. Just my two cents worth

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## VapeSnow

Sir Vape said:


> Lately
> 
> 
> Waine I have a set for you for FREE. Pop into the shop and try them out and you will see why these are possible one of the best set of coils I have ever used hence the price of R120. R60 for a professional made coil is giveaway mate and if you maintain them they will last you ages . I think vapers in SA need to start realising what it takes to start, build and maintain a brand. It takes capital and most of the serious guys that are offering juices and products at international level are not ripping you off or making a fortune as some think. It's about the passion and offering people the best quality items at competitive pricing.
> 
> I do hear you though there are some people out there jumping on the bandwagon but hey it's going to happen. My suggestion is do your homework on a product before bashing it and see what actually goes into it first. It's not as simple as hey I got a coil or a juice, slap a label and BOOM!!! I have a product. Much more goes into it if the person is serious about it and making ones money back takes time (if we want to talk about the profit thing as everyone seems to be harping on about). I wish it was as easy as that but in saying that I personally haven't or wouldn't release a product that I don't care about. I sometimes break even on items just to know I have given people what they have been looking for because at the end of the day the buzz I get means more to me than the money. I can stand proud next to something i have created and know that people are loving it. Just my two cents worth



Awesome response . I have a pair of these coils in my Rta i use everyday(My work horse) for two months now and they still look brand new and work if they are still new. 

R120 is nothing for a pair of Fused Claptons made out of Top Quality Twisted Messes Wire. 

@Waine take Sirvape up on his offer and I promise you, you will come back and tell us you understand now why.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1


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## Smoky Jordan

Pixstar said:


> My 2c: When I read the OP I did not get the impression he was knocking the vendor, he was merely expressing his own opinion and made that clear.
> Pre-made coils of this nature are not cheap but as stated we have the choice of not buying them.
> Yeah, for example a R7k stab wood mod is also expensive but it all depends on what YOUR budget allows and what YOUR perception of said item's value is.
> As a side, I held and fondled a R7k mod not too long ago and was so tempted, but once I factored in the cost of a divorce I decided not to go ahead.
> So IMHO, at the end of the day it's all about affordability and personal perceptions of value.


Well said... if you can afford it buy it and if not look for something cheaper and THAT is the bottom line


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## Chris du Toit

This topic is possibly the most spoke about topic that you would not find on most threads and that is that people expect top quality products, whether it be new or used vape goods or in this case quality hand made coils, at a ridiculously low price. We all have had the experience in selling a mod you paid R1000 for at R700 and then getting offers of R300. 

Yes there are other similar quality mods, coils, attys and also juices that you could purchase for cheap... But at the end of they day you have to decide what you are comfortable with paying for what you want. If you are happy with the cheaper option (not saying cheap is bad) and it works for you, happy days! I myself have bought lots of clone attys and they have surprised me very much and in some cases you can barely tell the difference between the authentic and the clone. 

I also went to market recently with my coils and there is a lot of time, effort and especially love for the community and vaping in its entirety that goes into making a quality product that you can be happy with to associate your name with it, because if it bombs so do you. 

There is a market for everything and everyone.... As the saying goes "never judge a person unless you have walked a mile in their shoes" the same can be applied here. Don't knock people or products until you have seen what goes into it or tried it yourself. 

Almal soek 'n plekkie in die son... And the earth is big enough to accommodate them all! 

Happy vaping everyone! Put a smile on that dial and support your local vendors whether they are just getting off their feet or are on their way to take over the world, we all started somewhere. 


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## Waine

I get it. According to some forum members, as consumers, we must just accept the prices of everything we buy. We may not express our opinions incase we tread on tender feet. If any "Experienced Vaper" with a reputation on this forum says something is great, we must just believe it, fall in and follow the trend. 

@SirVape thanks for the offer, but there is no way I will try 2 coils for R120 no matter what special wire was used and how many hours it took the guy to make them, just to be convinced that they are so good to justify R 120. Some of my own home made coils with your reasonably priced wire last me over a month and perform superbly.

I have always found your products very reasonably priced, and of excellent quality. I write reviews on your site, and have no hesitation spending between 3000 to 4000 on average, a month at your shop, I don't skimp. I don't "product bash".

Some DIY users knock the TFA concentrates you sell, I don't, I find them satisfying. I believe I am objective in my criticism and not vindictive.

But thanks for the offer, and you will always have my support.



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## Andre

Please allow me to go a bit off the topic here. Trying to find out what is the ID of those coils? Not shown on the site as far as I could see.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Yusuf Cape Vaper

Andre said:


> Please allow me to go a bit off the topic here. Trying to find out what is the ID of those coils? Not shown on the site as far as I could see.



They're 3mm @Andre but can be shrunken down if need be.


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## Andre

Yusuf Cape Vaper said:


> They're 3mm @Andre but can be shrunken down if need be.


Great stuff, thank you.

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## Strontium

R60 for 3inches of wire? Should start making them out of gold, probably work out cheaper.


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## spiv

I sometimes eat a meal at an expensive restaurant that I know I can make (something similar) at home with the right ingredients. 
But I don't need to go to the shop, get the right ingredients and tools needed, learn how to make it, prepare the meal, serve it myself and do the dishes.

For some, it's just easier to buy a great meal and go to bed early

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## Gazzacpt

Strontium said:


> R60 for 3inches of wire? Should start making them out of gold, probably work out cheaper.


Work out how much wire is in that one coil......
I remeber paying R50 or something for a meter of 28g kanthal a few years ago.

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## Viper_SA

Not really appropriate on Sirvape's sub-forum, but I have to agree with @Waine 
Take for instance wire and cotton. I recently bougjt Cotton Bacon V2 at R81 for a standard 10g pack and UD wire at R40 for 10m from FT. Now check local prices on average in SA from different vendors. +/- R140 for CB V2 and +/- R150 for 10m UD wire. That's 100% mark-up on cotton and 150% mark-up on wire. Surely vendors get stuff at wholesale pricing. How can FT sell for these prices and still make a profit, while our vendors mark everything up sky-high? I have bought enough wire to build a small electric fence without breaking the bank. I only order locally if I want it NOW. Otherwise I import. DIY ingredients is different. Two great vendors have exceptional pricing, while some others make you feel like you're paying off their sports cars.

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## Strontium

I presume FT is Fasttech?


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## Viper_SA

Strontium said:


> I presume FT is Fasttech?



Yup


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## Feliks Karp

Waine said:


> I get it. According to some forum members, as consumers, we must just accept the prices of everything we buy.



This does not in any way negate your right to having an opinion on things, as I do feel as though some of the responses to your post so far have been a bit dubious, but...
...you're not buying these coils, so stop letting it stress you out, just about every consumer product has its production cost with it's profit partly consisting of perceived worth, people will pay what they are willing to pay and a manufacturer will soon learn how willing they are to part with their disposable income. If you're more "intelligent" with your cash, good for you, don't get an ulcer over other people's spending habits, buy more of what you see as being worthwhile and live a longer life.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 5


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## moonunit

@Waine and others, purely out of interest would you be willing to pay for locally made coils? 

Note I am not a commercial coil builder and have zero interest in becoming one.


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## rogue zombie

Sir Vape said:


> Lately
> 
> 
> Waine I have a set for you for FREE. Pop into the shop and try them out and you will see why these are possible one of the best set of coils I have ever used hence the price of R120. R60 for a professional made coil is giveaway mate and if you maintain them they will last you ages . I think vapers in SA need to start realising what it takes to start, build and maintain a brand. It takes capital and most of the serious guys that are offering juices and products at international level are not ripping you off or making a fortune as some think. It's about the passion and offering people the best quality items at competitive pricing.
> 
> I do hear you though there are some people out there jumping on the bandwagon but hey it's going to happen. My suggestion is do your homework on a product before bashing it and see what actually goes into it first. It's not as simple as hey I got a coil or a juice, slap a label and BOOM!!! I have a product. Much more goes into it if the person is serious about it and making ones money back takes time (if we want to talk about the profit thing as everyone seems to be harping on about). I wish it was as easy as that but in saying that I personally haven't or wouldn't release a product that I don't care about. I sometimes break even on items just to know I have given people what they have been looking for because at the end of the day the buzz I get means more to me than the money. I can stand proud next to something i have created and know that people are loving it. Just my two cents worth


I think those Minikin V2's are far too expensive...  

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## Waine

Feliks Karp said:


> This does not in any way negate your right to having an opinion on things, as I do feel as though some of the responses to your post so far have been a bit dubious, but...
> ...you're not buying these coils, so stop letting it stress you out, just about every consumer product has its production cost with it's profit partly consisting of perceived worth, people will pay what they are willing to pay and a manufacturer will soon learn how willing they are to part with their disposable income. If you're more "intelligent" with your cash, good for you, don't get an ulcer over other people's spending habits, buy more of what you see as being worthwhile and live a longer life.



@FeliksKarp Its not the first time you feel some of my posts are "a bit dubious". Why do you say this is "stressing me out"? and "don't get an 'ulcer' over other peoples spending habits"? No need to be abrasive. Have you observed your previous "stressed out" posts? Is it not part of the experience on this forum to express opinions and to engage in constructive dialogue. Sure, I will admit, my last sentence in my original post: "...And those who fall for it" was a bit uncalled for. So I take that back. But I still stick with my opinion.


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## Feliks Karp

Waine said:


> @FeliksKarp Its not the first time you feel some of my posts are "a bit dubious". Why do you say this is "stressing me out"? and "don't get an 'ulcer' over other peoples spending habits"? No need to be abrasive. Have you observed your previous "stressed out" posts? Is it not part of the experience on this forum to express opinions and to engage in constructive dialogue. Sure, I will admit, my last sentence in my original post: "...And those who fall for it" was a bit uncalled for. So I take that back. But I still stick with my opinion.


@Waine take a step back and re-read what I wrote. I said that some of *the * responses to your post were dubious.  ie. some people were giving you alot of crap for having an opinion. I wanted to state that I am not doing the same, but that I think you shouldn't let it bother you so much...

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## Clouds4Days



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## GerritVisagie

Question. 
So if I were to expand my building skills, but I'm not sure the effort of building a staple staggered fused alien clapton would be worth it it... 
Ie, you get the same vape from a plain old clapton. Then wouldn't it be nice to be able to buy such a set of coils, once off, to test it out. 
Then, if I like it, I learn to build it.

For that reason, I think it's nice to have the option to buy pre-fab coils. 
The more exotic, the better. 


Sent from my iPhone 7+ using Tapatalk

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 4


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## Viper_SA

In my experience, plain wire coils are better than any fancy stuff a anyway  Guess I'm lucky that way

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2 | Can relate 1


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## boxerulez

For me... a plain 24ga coil is fantastic. Hell Sir Vape even recommends this in a SM25.

That said... i think this whole conversation is rediculous.

Lets complain about juice at 150 a bottle while you can diy 30ml for 20 bucks?

Also nobody in this thread said you must just accept the prices because some reputable members praise a product.

What I have seen many times is a response that a free market is fantastic.

This works in your favour also as when you cannot afford it (feel it is too expensive) all you do is keep your wallet in your pocket and walk past.

Sent from my Serpent Minikin

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


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## GerritVisagie

I love this. 
So many opinions, each built on rock solid ground, none more true than the next. 


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## Clouds4Days

boxerulez said:


> For me... a plain 24ga coil is fantastic. Hell Sir Vape even recommends this in a SM25.
> 
> That said... i think this whole conversation is rediculous.
> 
> Lets complain about juice at 150 a bottle while you can diy 30ml for 20 bucks?
> 
> Also nobody in this thread said you must just accept the prices because some reputable members praise a product.
> 
> What I have seen many times is a response that a free market is fantastic.
> 
> This works in your favour also as when you cannot afford it (feel it is too expensive) all you do is keep your wallet in your pocket and walk past.
> 
> Sent from my Serpent Minikin



Fully agree with that bud. If we had no other options then i too would probably protest. 

But we have options. You can buy wire and make simple coils or buy a coiling kit/Dedeleaus (i think that's how its spelt ) and make fany coil or, buy the Demon killer coils. They last about a month to two so ok if you wanna try out.

The main thing is we not limited or forced to use the empire coils so once again if its too much cash and you not happy spending that amount then use the other options you have.

Same goes with juice if store/premium juice is too expensive then start learning too Diy. Thats what i did and is so simple.
Kzor did a tutorial on how easy it is too Diy. Ill find the link now 

Us vapers have options and we are in no means limited to choice.
So lets all just move on.

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## Clouds4Days

Here you go.

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## RichJB

boxerulez said:


> Lets complain about juice at 150 a bottle while you can diy 30ml for 20 bucks?



Exactly. The price of commercial juices doesn't bother me in the slightest because I'm never going to buy them regardless of what they cost. If they cost the same as DIY juice, I'd consider it. But they never will. So it's a theoretical and futile exercise to speculate on it.

This answers @moonunit's question as well about how much I'd be willing to pay for coils. The answer is that there is no answer because no coil maker is going to make coils as cheaply as I can make them myself. Commercial juice, exotic coils, stock sub-ohm coils and high-end gear are four vaping sectors which, if they vanished overnight, would make zero difference to my vaping experience. I don't use any of their products so what they charge is of no concern to me. If their customers are happy, that is all that matters. Me not being a customer should not cause them to lose any sleep. Porsche, Johnnie Walker Blue, Rolex and Versace have all done perfectly well without having me as a customer.

Now if you ask me what DIY concentrates should cost, let's just say I'm thinking of a number that starts with 3. Four or five months ago, DIY vendors would have stated flatly that such pricing was not doable. But we now have one DIY vendor selling FA for R35, another selling Inw for R40, another selling 20ml TFA for as low as R51 and 20ml Cap for as low as R68, and yet another selling Cap/FW/FA/TFA for R38. So it obviously can be done. And I would think that customer pressure played a role in the deflation affecting DIY concentrates currently.

Yes, I'm cheap. But what of it? My motives are pure and altruistic. If we are to save a billion lives, vaping must be affordable for the poorest of the poor. If nobody else will think of poor developing world children then I will. And I shall not rest until every child in the developing world can chuck clouds on a DNA 200 with a Hadaly and Cuttwood juice. I shall now ask @Clouds4Days to release the thousand white doves while I claim my Kumbaya medal from @Silver.

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## Clouds4Days

RichJB said:


> I shall now ask @Clouds4Days to release the thousand white doves while I claim my Kumbaya medal from @Silver.



Here you go my dear friend...

Reactions: Thanks 1


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## RichJB

Wahey, @Clouds4Days delivers right on cue. Now all we need is the appropriate music:

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## KZOR

I will give it to all ya folk straight-up from my perspective. 

We are spoilt by cheap prices when it comes to quality items. I just look at mods in the classifieds ....... @Lee had to reduce his price on Dotmod RTA's to R500 each before they sold, @VapeSnow had to drop his Triad and subzero dripper to R2400 before it sold and so on.
@hands sells top quality driptips for WAY WAY WAY too cheap. He could double that price and still come in way cheaper than overseas makers.

If you start making your own juice and coils then you realise how cheap it can be done for BUT there is a huge difference making them in your house versus as part of a business. The reasons why I can sell my juices cheaper is because I have a fraction of the overheads other guys have and I do it as a hobby and it is not my primary source of income.
We need to understand many vendors and makers rely on selling vape related products to pay the bills and still make enough to enjoy the small pleasures in life.

I try to help educate members in my videos to be self sufficient by building their own wires and making their own ejuice so that those individuals who are on a tight budget or want to start a new hobby has an alternative.
If something is too expensive for me then I just don't buy it and alternatively if I really want it and it can help save me moola in the long run then it is a no brainer.

When I quote to deejay a wedding I am offering to do something someone else can do for R800 but I will never do it for that price because ....
1) my equipment is quality
2) my music collection is diverse and up to date
3) my time is too precious to do it for less than my quote
4) i feel my years of experience has to count for something

Can I do it for less? Of course
Will I do it for less? Not likely except when it is a fundraiser for a noble cause

We need to realise or remember that you get what you pay for. I married quality because I like quality. If I cannot afford quality then I make my own quality.

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## Jakey

Clouds4Days said:


> and make fany coil or


Tell me more about these fany coils about which you speak..... sounds quite erotic exotic

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## Clouds4Days

Jakey said:


> Tell me more about these fany coils about which you speak..... sounds quite erotic exotic




The only Fancy coil i can make is a simple twisted coil.
I dont have the time nor the patience to build coils.
If i need fancy coil i use alien wire shots or fused clapton wire in a spool.

But the Fancy coils i use are no where near to what fancy coils google has

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## foGGyrEader

Coils? Who needs coils?

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## Lord Vetinari

Bottom line: a set of Coil Empire claptons takes a whole spool of wire for the claptoning. 

Then also they are total works of art perfect in all regards. 

Quality craftmanship costs bucks. Period.


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## Daniel

Being involved in the custom knife community I can appreciate the time and effort that goes into any hand made product. The real question is supply and demand....

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## Mac75

Mustrum Ridcully said:


> Bottom line: a set of Coil Empire claptons takes a whole spool of wire for the claptoning.



A pair of 7 wrap 3mm id 26/38 claptons will require just over 4 meters of the 38g wrap to make both coils

So unless your spool is 4 meters then it will take an entire spool. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Reactions: Informative 2


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## The_Ice

Clouds4Days said:


> I hear you @Waine if its got to do with vaping aparently doesnt matter what the prices are, it sells. Like uncle @Rob Fisher said its a Free Market so one is free too choose to spend the money or not.
> 
> Myself and few other members are also jumping on the band wagon if you would like you can join us Waine, we need as many members as possible.
> 
> Its a whole new experience to vaping where one doesnt need a mod or tank to vape you. You can vape straight out the bottle.
> 
> I now present for the first time on Ecigssa.....
> 
> View attachment 78225
> 
> 
> This is the next level guys.... A whole new dimension to vaping that now anyone can buy for ony R550.00
> 
> You say wow R550.00 thats expensive.....
> No its not...
> All Fart in a Bottle, Bottles are exclusive and marked by its creator with a signature and what he ate the night before. Here is the lengthy capturing process of making one of these unique bottles.
> 
> View attachment 78226
> 
> 
> Its a lengthy process but it pays off cause its R550.00.... I see now you starting to say wow R550.00 doesn't seem that bad now.
> 
> If i havent convinced you yet than you will be convinced now...
> You need no vape gear with Fart in a Bottle all you need is a Bottle of Fart in a Bottle to enjoy this amazing product straight out the bottle...
> 
> View attachment 78227
> 
> 
> Wow ....
> Just look at him enjoying that Fart in a Bottle.
> You can get yours today from all leading vape shops...
> So go now and grab one today....
> 
> Only R550.00


Been DIYing the stuff for ages. It's my goto end of the month vape

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## Ashley A

Daniel said:


> Being involved in the custom knife community I can appreciate the time and effort that goes into any hand made product. The real question is supply and demand....


Reminds me of this Lexus LFA supercar. Limited to 500 and each handmade. The epitome of Lexus's ingenuity and technology. A true beauty and a beast of a car at R5mil and no one can deny that plus that is actually what it cost Lexus to make that car. There is not a markup but it was purely to showcase their talent and what the future of Lexus hold's or held from when it was made.

I saw one of these in the basement of Lexus Midrand and apparently the other one in the country in in a dealership in CPT. Been there for years. I asked why? Apparently because, "most people who have R5mil to blow on cars" are buying Porche 911's, Lambo, Ferraris, for half the price (or they buy 2) that beat the LFA at what it's built to do. Paris Hilton has one though that she uses for shopping so there is a market.


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## Daniel

Ashley A said:


> Reminds me of this Lexus LFA supercar. Limited to 500 and each handmade. The epitome of Lexus's ingenuity and technology. A true beauty and a beast of a car at R5mil and no one can deny that plus that is actually what it cost Lexus to make that car. There is not a markup but it was purely to showcase their talent and what the future of Lexus hold's or held from when it was made.
> 
> I saw one of these in the basement of Lexus Midrand and apparently the other one in the country in in a dealership in CPT. Been there for years. I asked why? Apparently because, "most people who have R5mil to blow on cars" are buying Porche 911's, Lambo, Ferraris, for half the price (or they buy 2) that beat the LFA at what it's built to do. Paris Hilton has one though that she uses for shopping so there is a market.


Pics or it didn't happen


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## blujeenz

Daniel said:


> Pics or it didn't happen

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## Strontium

Blech!!! Someone spray some dettol on those seats

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## Rusty

These coils are well worth it , iv bought them as they are very finely wrapped.The vape from it is great and you also paying for the quality of the Ni80 wire . If they are well mainatained it could last you +- 2 months .

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## Hardtail1969

I think this whole discussion is a emotive one for all concerned, because there is such a vast array of options when it comes to sourcing Vape goods.

And this is without figuring in the whole personal value each of us attaches to the items in question, no matter what item it may be.

I recall spending a lot of time, on a similar forum recently, where one of the great discussions centred around whether or not a salary of 75000.00 dollars was enough for a family to live on in a certain city, in a certain country.

The answers as you can imagine vary greatly, and all kinds of opinions are offered, because lets face it, it is a intensely personal experience, and your own choices and values come into play.

all of this being said, i believe that a lot of the vendors in South Africa, are not out to rip their clientel off, (for that see the numerous chinese malls and fleamarket stalls, cellphone repair services etc), but are trying their best to provide quality products at a reasonable price.

If however this does not suit your personal budget, or your personal value system, you still have options, you can source internationally, and do the whole customs, shipping, delays thing yourself, or look here on the forum for second hand goods.

Failing this too, you still have the option of DIY, and if you want to spend the money to get started in DIY, by the end of your journey to achieving similar results to commercially available merchandise, you may have spent way more than the outright purchase of the item in question would have cost you to begin with.

Remember one thing about economics, and capitalism, a service or goods offered will only survive as long as their are customers that are willing to pay for it, which is why you don't get 28kb/s dialup modems or services anymore....

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## Rob Fisher

Hardtail1969 said:


> which is why you don't get 28kb/s dialup modems or services anymore....



My first modem was 2400... then 9600 was awesome and 14400 was just the best ever...OK I'm old.

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## Hardtail1969

9600kbps.. that was mine... blazing speed...

Sent from my SM-A700FD using Tapatalk

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## Gersh

Ran out of popcorn just in time 


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## RichJB

Hardtail1969 said:


> Failing this too, you still have the option of DIY, and if you want to spend the money to get started in DIY, by the end of your journey to achieving similar results to commercially available merchandise, you may have spent way more than the outright purchase of the item in question would have cost you to begin with.



This is certainly true up to a point on the time scale. You can buy an awful lot of stock coils for the money spent on a Daedalus, a coiling kit with tab, dozens of reels of imported wire, imported cotton hand-picked only by virgins at midnight on the Spring equinox when dewpoint is perfect, and so on. Likewise, you can buy a lot of commercial juice for the scale, bottles and other implements, base ingredients and 200+ concentrates which most DIYers will have in order to avoid the First Rule (and even then they will still be at least one concentrate short). So in the short term, DIY will probably be more expensive than buying commercial, not less. But if one is in vaping for the long haul, the savings on DIY soon outstrip the high initial start-up costs.

People question the received wisdom that "vaping is cheaper than smoking". And, certainly the way that many here practise it, it isn't. For their monthly vape budget, they could have smoked 100 cigarettes a day and still spent less. I have now almost ceased hardware purchases and my DIY is restricted to replacing the concentrates I use up, with occasional small purchases of new concentrates to expand my stock. I can vape very easily for R200-R300 a month now, which is half of what I spent on smoking. 

Of course, it will take me a while to amortise my start-up costs in vaping, where I was spending far more on gear than I would have on cigarettes. But I'll get there. The other factor which is significant is that vaping costs are quite static and there is even a degree of deflation in DIY concentrates, with competition driving prices down as the market settles. Cigarettes are increasing at normal inflationary rates coupled with annual 'sin tax' increases. So my break-even point may come sooner than I had anticipated. After that, it's all win.

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## Pixstar

RichJB said:


> This is certainly true up to a point on the time scale. You can buy an awful lot of stock coils for the money spent on a Daedalus, a coiling kit with tab, dozens of reels of imported wire, imported cotton hand-picked only by virgins at midnight on the Spring equinox when dewpoint is perfect, and so on. Likewise, you can buy a lot of commercial juice for the scale, bottles and other implements, base ingredients and 200+ concentrates which most DIYers will have in order to avoid the First Rule (and even then they will still be at least one concentrate short). So in the short term, DIY will probably be more expensive than buying commercial, not less. But if one is in vaping for the long haul, the savings on DIY soon outstrip the high initial start-up costs.
> 
> People question the received wisdom that "vaping is cheaper than smoking". And, certainly the way that many here practise it, it isn't. For their monthly vape budget, they could have smoked 100 cigarettes a day and still spent less. I have now almost ceased hardware purchases and my DIY is restricted to replacing the concentrates I use up, with occasional small purchases of new concentrates to expand my stock. I can vape very easily for R200-R300 a month now, which is half of what I spent on smoking.
> 
> Of course, it will take me a while to amortise my start-up costs in vaping, where I was spending far more on gear than I would have on cigarettes. But I'll get there. The other factor which is significant is that vaping costs are quite static and there is even a degree of deflation in DIY concentrates, with competition driving prices down as the market settles. Cigarettes are increasing at normal inflationary rates coupled with annual 'sin tax' increases. So my break-even point may come sooner than I had anticipated. After that, it's all win.


Very good points made. My fear is what inevitable regulations will do to pricing...

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Gersh

RichJB said:


> This is certainly true up to a point on the time scale. You can buy an awful lot of stock coils for the money spent on a Daedalus, a coiling kit with tab, dozens of reels of imported wire, imported cotton hand-picked only by virgins at midnight on the Spring equinox when dewpoint is perfect, and so on. Likewise, you can buy a lot of commercial juice for the scale, bottles and other implements, base ingredients and 200+ concentrates which most DIYers will have in order to avoid the First Rule (and even then they will still be at least one concentrate short). So in the short term, DIY will probably be more expensive than buying commercial, not less. But if one is in vaping for the long haul, the savings on DIY soon outstrip the high initial start-up costs.
> 
> People question the received wisdom that "vaping is cheaper than smoking". And, certainly the way that many here practise it, it isn't. For their monthly vape budget, they could have smoked 100 cigarettes a day and still spent less. I have now almost ceased hardware purchases and my DIY is restricted to replacing the concentrates I use up, with occasional small purchases of new concentrates to expand my stock. I can vape very easily for R200-R300 a month now, which is half of what I spent on smoking.
> 
> Of course, it will take me a while to amortise my start-up costs in vaping, where I was spending far more on gear than I would have on cigarettes. But I'll get there. The other factor which is significant is that vaping costs are quite static and there is even a degree of deflation in DIY concentrates, with competition driving prices down as the market settles. Cigarettes are increasing at normal inflationary rates coupled with annual 'sin tax' increases. So my break-even point may come sooner than I had anticipated. After that, it's all win.


Wow great detailed informative reply . Thanks @RichJB .


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## Calvinh

Waine said:


> @BillW If you read and understood the tone of my post you will observe that I am not taking a stab at Sir Vape. (The vendor) I buy all my vape gear there, I always support them and sing their praises as I work a few kilometres away from them. As much as it is a free market, I am entitled to express my opinion on this forum. The thrust of my post is where are we heading when we can now buy 2 coils for R120?
> 
> Have you never in your life once claimed that something is too expensive?




I guess i just find my new go to "collection connection"  ? Seeing how i live and work in Kloof - Cause petrol is EXPENSIVE.


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## RichJB

Pixstar said:


> Very good points made. My fear is what inevitable regulations will do to pricing...



Yeah, I think regulation will inevitably bring sin taxation to vaping and will drive prices upwards. There may also be additional costs for juice manufacturers in particular. I could see govt classifying juice as a product subject to compulsory specifications which, in turn, might require juice manufacturers to be certified to the appropriate ISO standard. Even if they are already in compliance and wouldn't need any equipment purchases or upgrading to attain certification, there is still the unavoidable cost of paying for the certification itself. And that ain't cheap.

However, that should be countered somewhat by vaping becoming more mainstream and the downward pressure that leveraging economies of scale enables. Currently the juice industry consists of thousands of small manufacturers, none of whom can manufacture in the bulk quantities required to leverage economies of scale. It's an uncapitalistic structure that is unlikely to sustain. When you buy chips at your supermarket, you don't have 874 brands to choose from. It's Simba, Willard's, Lay's, Pringles and a few more. When you buy mayonnaise, you don't have 640 brands to choose from, it's Hellman's, Crosse & Blackwell, Nola and a few others. 

It is inevitable that the juice industry will rationalise at some point and move towards the "handful of giant suppliers" that capitalism produces. Big pharma has already started producing e-juice lines. They can manufacture a million liters of juice a month and not even blink. It won't even dent their monolithic chemical manufacturing capacity. That will surely drive prices downwards again. As with all emerging industries, prices will fluctuate as the market settles and matures, and the bigger longer-term players entrench themselves.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Strontium

Dunno about needing a Daedalus et al, my needs are far simpler.
Bought some wire for R100, wrapped it sound a drill bit a few times, trimmed with nail clippers, job done.


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## Silver

Hi guys

I understand how this is all related - but please bear in mind, we are in the Sir Vape subforum - and the topic is on the coils in question

Lets rather take the detailed discussions on other topics into another thread


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