# Why do we need to SUB OHM?



## Paulie (4/5/15)

Hey all,

So over the past few days i have been seeing quite a few people complaining about Sub Ohming and thought i would give some feedback here as to why i think it is necessary for a certain type of vaper. 

One of the best things about vaping is the whole discovery phase! Over the past 11 Months i have really enjoyed this phase as there is no better feeling than finding a new style vape that suits your needs. If i look at how my own personal journey went, I can break it into 3 steps.

1)Noob Vapor - Help me stop the Stinkies
I remember the first day i started to vape i really battled and coughed and found it hard to get used to having vapor in my mouth and lungs.The habit of not lighting up a stinky was really tough to get off. After the 1st week though i was really happy and then went off to all my local vape shops to start finding additional juices which was really exciting.

2)I am a Vapor - Proud to be off the stinkies
The is probably the phase i miss the most of all! You find yourself overwhelmed at all the gear and juices and all you want to do is read up on the forum at all the different type of gear and juices that are available and you desperately want to try them all! Over the next few months you find your vape satisfaction increasing and your bank account decreasing lol.

3)Expert Vapor - Show me your clouds\Builds or atleast your DIY Juices
At this stage of your vaping experience you have pritty much found out what exactly you want and love to use. There are generally 2 types of vapers at this stage:

A) Lung Hitters - Tanks, Drippers and high wattage devices running Sub Ohm Builds/ High VG juices and Low 3/6 Mg nicotine

B) Mouth to Lung - Tanks, Drippers and Moderate wattage devices using 50/50 VG/PG and higher MG 12/18 Juices.

What i also found out during my journey is you could be both a Lung Hitter or a Mouth to Lung Vaper but you will still prefer doing one over the other on a consistent basis.

So Why do we need to Sub Ohm?
The answer is that when you are the type of vapor that likes a warm vape and prefer the flavour you get from doing lung hits over mouth to lung then you generally want to build below 0.5 Ohms so that the vapor will be suited for your needs.

One of the Benefits to Sub Ohming for me is i prefer that type of a vape compared to mouth to Lung however it does have its setbacks as well:

A) Go Through Alot more Juice!
B) Less of a through Hit
C) People look at you funny when you in public
D) Battery life decreases quicker on your mods due to high wattage's be used
E) Finding good quility MAX VG Juice is hard and more expensive
F) The mouth to lung hitters never get why you do this

If i had to put some of the positive reasons as to why i Love to Sub Ohm it would be:

A) BIIIIGG Clouds are awesome!!
B) Building Sub Ohm Builds are just cooler and more fun! (Bigger is always better lol)
C) Flavour from Juices that are designed for Lung Hitters on Sub Ohm Builds is more satisfying in my opinion.
D) Using a 100W+ Device over 30W means you getting your money worth!
E) You can enter cloud blowing competitions and win free stuff 

If people think i am wrong then its just an opinion but it seems like all the vaping companies are moving this way for example ( Sub Tanks and High wattage devices)

So if you have not already i urge you to move over to the Dark Side

Reactions: Like 11 | Agree 7 | Winner 6


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## Xhale (4/5/15)

I'll bite
Been vaping a bit and been to a few of these cloud competitions to take photos and write some stuff about it. Every single time there was some element who would stand outide and blow the worlds biggest clouds so that passers-by can be in awe at his/her cloud.
In fact, by their expressions it would seem the opposite was happening, but without doubt at every event there would be Mr Ignorant doing his thing.

We love car analogies because most of us have cars.
Vapers are your average street car drivers..perhaps price/km/l/comfort is important to that buyer.
Some are perhaps the guys that have something special under the hood for weekend use at a track, or do 1/4miles once a month. You may not immediately know who they are when they line up at the traffic light next to you. And they drive normally.

Cloud chasers are ricers. Thye have the same equipment as us other drivers, but choose to put stickers all over it, big wings, lower it beyond usable and generally make a noise and a scene wherever they go so you absolutely know they have an 1800 twin cam, and not a piddly 1300. This is a phase perhaps most drivers have gone through and matured beyond it.

Thats how I see things. There's cloud chasers who dont fit into the above, of course, we're humans and different down to each little molecule. Yet when you're chilling in your garden and hear some laaitie hitting the rev limiter in first gear spinning his wheels about and making smoke.....well...that what others think when they see a cloud chaser "making a point". It's a bit pointless. But some people think it is cool.
There's a time and place where it is cool. But "at McDonalds" is not that place...even if vaping is allowed...even if nobody complains.....you're being a bad ambassador

Reactions: Like 5 | Agree 2


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## free3dom (4/5/15)

Nicely done @Paulie 

It's great to hear from the Dark Side of the Force as well 

I agree with everything you said, especially that each person will naturally lean towards either lung hitting or mouth to lung, and may or may not dabble in the other side. 

It's great to have options and variety 

I'll also say this...I sub-ohm, but I MTL - the two are not mutually exclusive since anything under 1.0 is SUB-OHM

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 2


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## devdev (4/5/15)

Great post Paulie, and definitely the longest bit of writing I have ever read of yours. 

Reading it I realized I am exclusively a SO Vaper. It also never ceases to impress me that vaping, and especially taste, are so subjective 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Reactions: Like 5 | Agree 1


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## Rob Fisher (4/5/15)

There is no question that there is now a vape for everyone... personally I think the sub-ohm frenzy is just over-hype and a lot of people want to do it because it's "cool" (me included)... Newbies should certainly not start on a sub-ohm tank and I think the good old iStick and Nautilus mini is still a great option to start on.

I have settled into vaping nirvana now with my REO's with a single coil of between 1Ω and 1,5Ω with rayon and Tropical Ice. One of the Reo's needs a 0,7Ω for some of the juices...

And then for my cloud blowing I use one of my Atlantis's! I'm still surprised that the Atlantis is not more popular especially with the extended tank!

As for temperature control... will start seriously testing it this coming week now that the dreaded flu is buggering off!

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 1


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## rogue zombie (4/5/15)

Spot on @Paulie

I would just like to add the 'Junior Subohmer':

We have a 70watt device capable of going down to 0.2ohm builds. We still vape at 20-25watts on 0.6ohm builds 

EDIT: No but seriously, I just cant find more joy than 6mg (almost no throat hit), medium clouds... but the vapour is at the right temperature for my liking. And so is the flavour - its great while never being too much.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Paulie (4/5/15)

Xhale said:


> I'll bite
> Been vaping a bit and been to a few of these cloud competitions to take photos and write some stuff about it. Every single time there was some element who would stand outide and blow the worlds biggest clouds so that passers-by can be in awe at his/her cloud.
> In fact, by their expressions it would seem the opposite was happening, but without doubt at every event there would be Mr Ignorant doing his thing.
> 
> ...




There certainly is this side to it and it wont go away, but i would rather have a bunch on teenagers blowing clouds on 0 nicotine than them smoking stinkies

Reactions: Agree 5


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## Philip Dunkley (4/5/15)

@Paulie I agree with you one hundred percent, and I'm lucky to be completely enamoured with both side of the Vaping fence.
I love the big bad devices with all their power, and the satisfaction of vapour billowing out of my mouth for over 5 seconds, and the flavour is pretty good as well.
Then I have the more Petit devices, for example Pipes, where I vape a higher MG juice, but on a much less powerful device.
Both sides have given me immense pleasure over the time of my vaping journey. 
My only wish would be the manufacturers to put a little more effort into promoting the safety around these devices, as I've seen quite a few dangerous builds in my time, even recently on this forum.
So I agree with you completely, there are no rules in this game of how a person should vape, or what they should vape, in fact, at the moment, completely the opposite, now is the time for discovery in vaping, if no one did it, we'd all still be vaping on the Cigalikes!!

Good Post Buddy.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 1


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## Alex (4/5/15)

I agree with you @Paulie, my journey started with MTL hits, and I struggled to find a tight enough draw to imitate the one from cigarettes. But after about about 8months I began experimenting with Lung hits. And what a revelation that turned out to be. All of a sudden flavours became awesome that I had otherwise written off. That change alone is what kept me going on the path to hotter builds. 

The drop in nicotine is an added advantage as well. 

I have recently experimented with doing mouth to lung again, but it now seems so foreign to me. I just don't enjoy that style of vaping anymore, anything below 0.5ohms is my goal now. And for me it's not about the clouds, in fact I consider that the only downside. For me it's all about the warm flavours.

Everyone is different though, and there is no right or wrong way to vape. Whatever keeps us off cigarettes is good in my view.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 3 | Winner 2


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## Silver (4/5/15)

I like my 18mg blackbird at 0.5 ohms mouth to lung. Sorts me out. 

I also love my rm2 at 1 ohm mouth to lung for super flavour

And I love my lung hitting on the Nuppin at 0.5 dual for the mentholated fruits. 

Lol and the humble yet mighty evod1 in the mornings. 

They are all so good! Love them all

Reactions: Like 8


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## Paulie (4/5/15)

Silver said:


> I like my 18mg blackbird at 0.5 ohms mouth to lung. Sorts me out.
> 
> I also love my rm2 at 1 ohm mouth to lung for super flavour
> 
> ...




Come on now tell us? Don't hold back! I Know you can do it bud!

Which one do you prefer?? lol


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## Morne (4/5/15)

Good post @Paulie 
I like both sides of the spectrum... Some days l like the high watts and big clouds, but then I have my days where I just like vaping a +1ohm build on one of my Reo's.

Its all about variety and thats the beauty of vaping! You can vape however and whatever you feel like vaping... and change whenever you feel like it.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Mufasa (4/5/15)

I agree with everything being said here, but for me it comes back to the health issue. For the two weeks I sub-ohmed, I was back to a raw tongue and throat and back to that heavy feeling in my lungs. 
I was constantly asking myself if this was still healthier than cigarettes. Sure, the taste is awesome compared to the Nautilus mini's 1.8 ohm coil, but I keep getting this voice in my head telling me that I am pushing it too far. In my opinion, the stronger the devices get and the bigger the clouds, the more negative the effect on your health. 
That is where the medical professionals are going to nail us. No chance of getting them off our backs if we keep pushing the envelope. There will be no differentiation between normal vaping and sub-ohm craziness and no chance of them calling a vaper a non-smoker. No chance of getting discounts on your life insurance etc. The question is, where is this all going to end? Forget about your lungs for a moment. Cancer of the tongue, mouth and throat is also a reality that should be considered. Or am I just being paranoid?
If the whole industry is going sub-ohm, as suggested, then I will be very disappointed. Why not focus on cleaner, purer, less harmful vaping instead.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Silver (4/5/15)

Paulie said:


> Come on now tell us? Don't hold back! I Know you can do it bud!
> 
> Which one do you prefer?? lol



@Paulie - I genuinely love them all. That's why I have them all at hand at most times. 

For me the flavour on the RM2 at 1 ohm is better and more defined and concentrated than on a lung hit. For my reviews I find I can taste what's in there much better on this set up. 

But I love the menthol burn I get on a long lung hit too. Lots of air. Totally different kind of vape. Not something I prefer. Just different. 

I think for me I like the variety and I also like peaceful relaxing mindless vaping from time to time. So when I pick up a higher powered lung hitter it feels great. If I did that all the time I would probably get used to it. 

Probably similar to asking which juice do you prefer. This one or that one. I like several. So a few toots on one juice makes another juice taste even better. That kind of principle. 

Variety is the spice of life - is what I'm saying.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 2 | Winner 2 | Can relate 1


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## free3dom (4/5/15)

Mufasa said:


> I agree with everything being said here, but for me it comes back to the health issue. For the two weeks I sub-ohmed, I was back to a raw tongue and throat and back to that heavy feeling in my lungs.
> I was constantly asking myself if this was still healthier than cigarettes. Sure, the taste is awesome compared to the Nautilus mini's 1.8 ohm coil, but I keep getting this voice in my head telling me that I am pushing it too far. In my opinion, the stronger the devices get and the bigger the clouds, the more negative the effect on your health.
> That is where the medical professionals are going to nail us. No chance of getting them off our backs if we keep pushing the envelope. There will be no differentiation between normal vaping and sub-ohm craziness and no chance of them calling a vaper a non-smoker. No chance of getting discounts on your life insurance etc. The question is, where is this all going to end? Forget about your lungs for a moment. Cancer of the tongue, mouth and throat is also a reality that should be considered. Or am I just being paranoid?
> If the whole industry is going sub-ohm, as suggested, then I will be very disappointed. Why not focus on cleaner, purer, less harmful vaping instead.



I think what you are missing, is that the guys who do the really crazy sub-ohm stuff do it properly - and with understanding. I know this to be true of @Paulie because taking a hit off one of his insane builds might be intimidating, but it is by no means harmful and does not leave me feeling worse for wear at all - it just makes everything around me disappear 

The problem is that people do it without any understanding of what it is and how to do it safely. For instance, if you are going to be doing low ohm builds with lots of airflow you absolutely want to lower your nic to 3mg or below (even 0mg if you are just playing around) - this is the most important bit because you will be taking in at least double the amount of vapor. The other equally important part is to use a juice with as much VG as you can - PG will irritate your mouth and throat quite a bit more when used for heavy lung hitting. And then of course there is the matter of device safety, but that's been covered many on the forum and I won't go into that. The bottom line is to read up and understand what you are doing - you can't just jump in the deep end and expect not to swallow some water 

In the end, all of your worries are mere speculation based on what you experienced and not proven fact that this kind of usage is at all bad for you. I for one don't find myself feeling any worse when lung hitting on sub-ohm for extended periods as I tend to take fewer hits - so it all works out the same in the end. I just don't find it satisfies some part of me as much as MTL vaping, but I don't see it having any negative effects on me health wise.

Could there be adverse affects...perhaps - but no one is qualified to answer that question right now. The golden rule in vaping should be: if it makes you feel unwell when you do something, don't do it. Then again, that's the same rule for everything else in life - we have just been breaking it since the dawn of time

Reactions: Like 5 | Agree 2 | Winner 2


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## johan (4/5/15)

Great thread you started @Paulie, and well written. I hardly ever do direct lung hits (sub-ohm or not). Use to do it in the beginning to get a nic fix when needed and surely not for flavor taste. It seems I got stuck halfway in the vaper's journey with mouth-to-lung, .... and seems I am staying behind by choice.

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 1 | Can relate 1


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## Mufasa (4/5/15)

@free3dom forgive me if it sounded like I was making statements without evidence. It is just my ramblings and the deamons in my own head. I am actually asking the questions as I am not experienced at sub-ohm vaping. The effects of sub-ohm vaping just had me a little more concerned than when I use the Nautilus mini. I am down to 6 or 3 mg nic, but it is the rawness of my mouth and throat that concerns me. It just can't be good.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Viper_SA (4/5/15)

Someone n the forum, I forget his name, told me that going sub-ohm straight away is like getting a learner's license and buying a Bugatti. He was right of course, if I started with something like a subtank straight off the cigs I would probably be smoking again today. That being said, the Twisp-a-likes and CE4's didn't work for me at all. The Nautilus mini was a good start, but it was switching over toa subtank in unison with the Nautilus mini that finally got me off the cigs. Before that I was stuck at 5 a day for a long time. That being said, the is a huge difference between 0.6 and 0.2.... Last week I wanted to see what a really low build would be like. Did a dual para build in the Plume Veil that came out to 0.16. My lowest build to date. I have seen guys refer to 0.17 - 0.2 as "warm", not "hot" vapes. Well below 0.2 is NOT for me. It roasted the hell out of my throat (could be the 6mg). I fnd I really enjoy 0.23 - 0.3 as an average in most of my drippers. Below 0.3 the flavor suffers in my opinion. I mostly do around 2-3sec hits though, nothing too long. 

On my Trident RDA I run a single coil at 1.1ohm specifically for tobacco flavors and MTL. Just feels wrong to lung hit tobacco at this stage. Also I am quite happy with the 1.8ohm Nautilus mini coils when driving, otherwise I can't see the road 

I think devices also play a role here. In the Odin at 0.4ohm I taste profiles in juices that don't show at 0.3 - 1.8ohm in other devices. 
I love blowing clouds on the CLT V3, but the flavor is just not there. I still enjoy it though, and watching thse white clouds billow forth seems more addictive than cigs ever were.

Most of my builds I try to keep above 0.2 anyway sop I can use the istick 50W as a back-up since I only have 3 VTC4's in rotation at the moment and they do drop to 3.7V quite quickly when subbing it.

Currently making all my new juices at 4mg instead of 6mg, and sticking to 40/60 in favor of VG. I like that combination. Higher VG tastes a bit blank to me.

Reactions: Like 3


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## whatalotigot (4/5/15)

I agree with this.

I first started on twisp. Moved straight to dripping as I like clouds. 

these days I vape at about .1 on a 26650 battery and thats how I like it. Some Will say "thats a hot vape" ... Yes its hot But my airflow is massive and Im inhailing alot more air with the vape so its accually NOT THAT HOT. infact its cooler then my girlfriends 1ohm kayfun build. True story

I use 6mg juice, because anything more then that destroys the juice flavour... and at 6mg on .1 setup I get the perfect hit with little to no throat hit. 

FLAVOUR - I find I get a lot more flavour or totally different profiles using a .1 opposed to 1ohm

I love clouds. 
there is something about making big clouds that satisfies me better then actual nicotine, I love big cloud.

Everyone has their own preference when vaping. for me. this is how I like it. and once used to the .1 vape I cant really go back....

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 1


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## zadiac (4/5/15)

It's not a need as much as a want. I love flavor, but I can achieve that with lung hits as well by closing up my air flow a little more. I like the satisfaction of filling my lungs with the vapor and the "lung hit" I get from that. Throat hit doesn't bother me. (there is a difference for me). Sub-ohm makes that possible. 
I've tried, but can't get the same "lung hit" from high ohm builds and mouth-to-lung hits. Maybe it's just me. Anyways, that's my 2 cents worth

Reactions: Like 2


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## free3dom (4/5/15)

Mufasa said:


> @free3dom forgive me if it sounded like I was making statements without evidence. It is just my ramblings and the deamons in my own head. I am actually asking the questions as I am not experienced at sub-ohm vaping. The effects of sub-ohm vaping just had me a little more concerned than when I use the Nautilus mini. I am down to 6 or 3 mg nic, but it is the rawness of my mouth and throat that concerns me. It just can't be good.



Not to worry, I was not attacking you or even implying you were incorrect - just giving the counter argument, which allows people (including myself) to see both sides. Examining things from different angles is key to a complete understanding. Even though I agree with a lot of what you said, I find it helps me gain a better understanding by thinking of and expressing the opposing side's view 

For me, the rawness in the mouth/throat generally comes directly from using 50/50 juices and it seems to be directly related to PG - which, probably not surprisingly, is what delivers the throat hit. Try a high, or even better, max VG juice and you may be surprised 

In the end, as I stated, if something makes you feel unwell then, no matter what anyone else has to say on the subject, it may just not be suited to you. Of course you may be doing something wrong, but still...if it hurts don't do it 

With all that said...it will never be necessary to sub-ohm or do lung hits - it is a choice. So if it doesn't work for you just vape the way you want and don't worry about the super sub-ohmers and/or deep lung suckers and their weird ways

Reactions: Like 3 | Informative 1


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## DoubleD (4/5/15)

Great thread @Paulie

...I'm just here to read  



A bit of useless information : I'm a MTL type of vaper but I have the spare Odin set up for clouds when "I want to impress the girls" at the braai. It usually starts by drinking too much 'oros' and me yelling, "Djhey! Betties', check ma clouds ekse!!" 

I guess there's a time and place for everything, is what I'm saying.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Funny 6


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## DonSS (4/5/15)

Xhale said:


> I'll bite
> Been vaping a bit and been to a few of these cloud competitions to take photos and write some stuff about it. Every single time there was some element who would stand outide and blow the worlds biggest clouds so that passers-by can be in awe at his/her cloud.
> In fact, by their expressions it would seem the opposite was happening, but without doubt at every event there would be Mr Ignorant doing his thing.
> 
> ...





Xhale said:


> I'll bite
> Been vaping a bit and been to a few of these cloud competitions to take photos and write some stuff about it. Every single time there was some element who would stand outide and blow the worlds biggest clouds so that passers-by can be in awe at his/her cloud.
> In fact, by their expressions it would seem the opposite was happening, but without doubt at every event there would be Mr Ignorant doing his thing.
> 
> ...



Hi

Thanks for the point of view. Always good for perspective.

I've gone the sub ohm route a month ago. I mix all my store bought liquids (Vape King Parkwood is the best IMO) with 50% VG. There is one thing alone that does it for me... The taste of the vape, you don't seem to get good flavor unless you're burning more liquid and mixing more air with your intake. Much fuller and more taste. I'm definitely a lung hit vaper. I'm comfortable with my new habit and couldn't care what any observers surmise.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Marzuq (5/5/15)

just a small little insight on my part. 

when i started vaping, i found it hard to drop the stinkies altogether. vaping just wasnt satisfying my need to have a cig even tho i started out on 18mg nic. I only really dropped the stinkies when i found out how sub ohming works. Sub ohming is what gave me satisfaction enough to let the stinkies go and also opened up vaping for me in a whole new light.

i dont see sub ohming as a hype or as one of the things that makes you part of the cool crowd. yeah its awesome being able to blow clouds. yes dripping on low ohm atties do give way better flavour and yes due to sub ohming i now vape 3mg juices and see myself moving onto 0mg nic in the near future. its all benefits in my experience and im proud to be a sub ohmer.

so here is my vaping summary wrt sub ohming
- got me to quit stinkies
- can blow clouds
- juices tastes way better
- went from 18mg nic to 3mg nic

sub ohmers rock!!

Reactions: Like 4 | Winner 1


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## kimbo (5/5/15)

My 2c

I think it all comes down to what you start on.

You buy a cheepy from china town and you start to vape, you don’t realy get the hit you looking for and go in search for the better hit. You stumble upon ESICSSA and youtube vids and you see the big clouds and recon that will do. You buy a mod and dripper and bob is your cloudy uncle.

But if you start on a higher nic like I did with a semi descend or descend setup you will get the hit and taste you looking for and will not see the need to move to mods and drippers. Yes you do that to scratch an itch but you find that you will go back to the tank and battery you love.

I heard so many ppl say that on 18mg and up you start to get the pepper taste of the nic maybe that is why the juice start to taste better in your sub ohm kit, because you cant taste the nic anymore.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Marzuq (5/5/15)

kimbo said:


> My 2c
> 
> I think it all comes down to what you start on.
> 
> ...



i started on pretty decent devics and tanks when is tarted vaping. with 18mg nic as well. and based on your experience and mine i think it is quite clear that the vaping experience is different for every vaper. we all are looking for something out of our vape but does not mean its the same thing.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## kimbo (5/5/15)

Marzuq said:


> i started on pretty decent devics and tanks when is tarted vaping. with 18mg nic as well. and based on your experience and mine i think it is quite clear that the vaping experience is different for every vaper. we all are looking for something out of our vape but does not mean its the same thing.


 I started on 36mg, but like you say we all look for something else

Reactions: Like 1


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## Marzuq (5/5/15)

kimbo said:


> I started on 36mg, but like you say we all look for something else



36mg
you must feel like the silver surfer after a day of vaping.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 4


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## Andre (5/5/15)

johan said:


> Great thread you started @Paulie, and well written. I hardly ever do direct lung hits (sub-ohm or not). Use to do it in the beginning to get a nic fix when needed and surely not for flavor taste. It seems I got stuck halfway in the vaper's journey with mouth-to-lung, .... and seems I am staying behind by choice.


I am in your club @johan - mouth to lung all the way. And tell you what: On a 0.7 ohm single coil in the Nuppin on a Reo with, for example, the 100% VG joose Thai Coconut (Ripe Vapes) I get clouds galore, throat hit and ample flavour.
I have no problem with peeps preferring safe super sub-ohm, but imo they will always be a minority, albeit a very active minority on forums like these.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2


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