# Taxman has set his eyes on e-cigs, how are they going to regulate?



## ConradS (25/2/16)

http://mg.co.za/article/2016-02-24-sin-taxes-prepare-to-pay-more-for-cigarettes-and-booze

"A review of tobacco product taxation will begin in 2016-17, and will consider both existing and non-traditional tobacco products and their alternatives, such as e-cigarettes."

-- Interesting times ahead, we got to keep our eyes open.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## mAlice (25/2/16)

Well I can't exactly say im surprised... E-liquid sales have largely been overlooked in the recent years (in ZA Atleast). I do however think the government should reward the vaper with a much lower tax on tobacco substitutes, seeing as this is a healthier alternative to the usage of big tobacco products.

Curios to hear what everyone thinks about this... being realistic, we all knew that our products would be taxed some or other time. But will the government make it harder for vendors to import juices/devices? I wonder...


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## Cespian (25/2/16)

In my understanding, they would need to redefine what is considered tobacco before they can paint vaping with the same brush. It still clearly stipulates that tax is increasing on tobacco products, hence; cigarettes, cigarette tobacco and pipe tobacco. 

As far as I know, smoking cessation is not classified under tobacco (eg. Nicotine Patch, chewing gum etc) and would not bourne the same tax increase.

Reactions: Agree 5 | Winner 1


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## mAlice (25/2/16)

Cespian said:


> In my understanding, they would need to redefine what is considered tobacco before they can paint vaping with the same brush. It still clearly stipulates that tax is increasing on tobacco products, hence; cigarettes, cigarette tobacco and pipe tobacco.
> 
> As far as I know, smoking cessation is not classified under tobacco (eg. Nicotine Patch, chewing gum etc) and would not bourne the same tax increase.



@Cespian Good point, do you think that tax on e-cigarette products should be on par with inflation?


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## Cespian (25/2/16)

mAlice said:


> @Cespian Good point, do you think that tax on e-cigarette products should be on par with inflation?



Look, everything should be on par with inflation IMHO. Cost of living increases bladibladiblah... whether e-liquid should be taxed or not is a different story. Everything is taxed, but I do not believe that it should bourne the same ridiculous tax as tobacco products as most non-vapers or SARS should consider it a cessation mechanism. Even classifying it as recreational will result in the tax man milking as much as they possibly can from it.

Reactions: Like 1


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## ConradS (25/2/16)

Well it looks like they are going to declare a tax on tobacco alternatives, they do not have to change the definition of tobacco to do that. More interesting is the vendor impact. The will require some sort of excise permit and tight controls on how much product is sold and how it is taxed. I think it will be the local manufacturers most hit as the burden of taxation will lie with them.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## kimbo (25/2/16)

ConradS said:


> Interesting times



Small derail ahead ..

that made me think of a curse from a Terry Pratchett book "May you live in interesting times"

Sorry bout the small detour, all back on track again

Reactions: Like 2


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## ConradS (25/2/16)

Cespian said:


> Even classifying it as recreational will result in the tax man milking as much as they possibly can from it.



That is exactly what they will try and do, if overturned then we will probably face FDA style regulation under SAHPRA which could even be worse on the long run.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Cespian (25/2/16)

ConradS said:


> Well it looks like they are going to declare a tax on tobacco alternatives, they do not have to change the definition of tobacco to do that. More interesting is the vendor impact. The will require some sort of excise permit and tight controls on how much product is sold and how it is taxed. I think it will be the local manufacturers most hit as the burden of taxation will lie with them.



You speaketh the truth sir. The point I was making is that the tax increases/import tarriff codes etc cannot be linked to tobacco unless the definition for tobacco is changed. We must just hope and pray that even if they do declare tax on smoking cessation and/or tobacco alternatives, that it is not dependant on the current tobacco rules and regulations.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Sk3tz0 (25/2/16)

if they decide to Tax vaping products and imports we can always follow in the foot steps of our fellow students around the country and burn stuff down in protest lol. or march on the Finance ministers offices and fog out his office..


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## Cespian (25/2/16)

Guys, just another point. I think the biggest concern will be:

a. Initial purchase of the device might be horrendously expensive because of tax that the venders need to pay back to SARS.
b. Acquiring nicotine

Otherwise, consider e-liquid and its ingredients... uses VG, cannot pin it to vaping... PG, cannot pin it to vaping... flavour concentrates, cannot pin it to vaping... nicotine, yes possibly. DIY will be like cheating the system.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 1


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## mAlice (25/2/16)

Cespian said:


> Guys, just another point. I think the biggest concern will be:
> 
> a. Initial purchase of the device might be horrendously expensive because of tax that the venders need to pay back to SARS.
> b. Acquiring nicotine
> ...



Actually thats true... didn't think about it that way. 

@NewOobY We better start with those DIY lines soon!

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Stosta (25/2/16)

I could say some intelligent things... But the thought of extra tax on my vaping just makes me too sad to think properly.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Byakko (25/2/16)

E-juice should be taxed,fair is fair,but they shouldn't nail us with 'sin tax'.Electronic vapes are the most effective tool I have ever seen for quitting cigs,and they should approach it as such.But knowing the government,ignorance is the word of the day and they will tax the poop out of us

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kuhlkatz (25/2/16)

Regulation and sin taxes are different things. Regulation they can do to a degree, as long as it is sensical not as extreme as the FDA is trying to impose on the American scene.

If e-juice is taxed, they should also tax many other forms of medication and non-essential foods, food supplements and bulking agents for that matter. I don't use any of that, but fair is fair. Unlike the other sin taxed industries, mixologists do not plant and grow a fair portion of their own raw products to use the yield of that for an end product. You forget that you are paying 14% VAT on the e-juice for which the base product was more than likely already largely taxed on import, or had a cost of 14% VAT charged to the sale when the mixologist purchased it from another supplier. 
You'll end up paying more VAT on top of the combined VAT and a sin tax - good for their coffers but not my pocket or my conscience. Unless they can prove that vaping is going to be a major drain on the government health resources, I will not agree with that at all.

The cost of your ashtray, lighter, lighter fluid or matches is not affected by the sale of a box of stinkies and you do not pay more for glasses or soda drinks that you mix with your 'hard tack', so why should they tax vape gear? 

It's not on, but I feel that they are going to pull us over a barrel, have their way and still expect us to pay for the lube...

Just my .

Reactions: Agree 1


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## WARMACHINE (25/2/16)

New sugar tax is going hurt the dessert vapers


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## blujeenz (25/2/16)

kimbo said:


> Small derail ahead ..
> 
> that made me think of a curse from a Terry Pratchett book "May you live in interesting times"
> 
> Sorry bout the small detour, all back on track again


Chinese origin.
Thats the 1st curse.
2nd one is _"May you find what you're looking for"_

Before you say, _"Yay yay, Im looking for a lottery win on Friday"_, consider the article on lottery winners in the You mag many years back.
Out of 20 interviewed, 2 yrs down the line 8 had been killed in fast cars bought with their winnings.


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## BumbleBee (25/2/16)

blujeenz said:


> Chinese origin.
> Thats the 1st curse.
> 2nd one is _"May you find what you're looking for"_
> 
> ...


So what you're saying is that I should probably not buy that Bugatti Vision GT? Meh, I'm more of a Unimog kinda guy anyway

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Lord Vetinari (25/2/16)

kimbo said:


> Small derail ahead ..
> 
> that made me think of a curse from a Terry Pratchett book "May you live in interesting times"
> 
> Sorry bout the small detour, all back on track again


We already are wallowing in the follies of the Agatean empire... lol... Might as well rename Cape Town to Ankh Morpork. And I am Patrician of course.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Lord Vetinari (25/2/16)

blujeenz said:


> Chinese origin.
> Thats the 1st curse.
> 2nd one is _"May you find what you're looking for"_
> 
> ...


Yes Terry Pratchett takes the piss out of China BIG TIME. Calls it the Agatean Empire. Funny as all hell. Noteworthy is that Pratchett forged his own sword from meteorite when he was knighted.


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## kimbo (25/2/16)



Reactions: Agree 1


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## blujeenz (25/2/16)



Reactions: Funny 2


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## Christos (25/2/16)

blujeenz said:


> Chinese origin.
> Thats the 1st curse.
> 2nd one is _"May you find what you're looking for"_
> 
> ...


 If I win the lottery I would buy a g class merc for offroading. 
Then again I believe lotto is a tax on the stupid.


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## BumbleBee (25/2/16)

Christos said:


> If I win the lottery I would buy a g class merc for offroading.
> Then again I believe lotto is a tax on the stupid.


hmmm, great minds, I had my eye on the GLS AMG


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