# Battery Venting and Exploding



## Rob Fisher



Reactions: Like 4 | Winner 7 | Thanks 4 | Informative 13


----------



## Crockett

Great video - he really explains it well.

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## Silver

Thanks for posting this @Rob Fisher. This is an excellent video by Matt!

In response to the recent vaping accident I mentioned we need to do what we can to educate vapers about battery safety and safe vaping practice.

We need to embrace these types of videos. I suggest that all vapers especially newer vapers watch it and take note.

I will try summarise some of the salient points of the video here:

The main message he is putting forward is that the *majority of bad vaping accidents are happening when batteries are shorted while using a mech mod. In most cases it is user error*.

So when using *mech mods* you need to be 100% certain of the following:

That your *battery is in good condition, especially the wrap*. If there are tears or any damage to the wrap, dont use that battery, rather get another one
If using a *hybrid mech mod* (where the atty pin touches the battery positive) *make sure the atty has a protruding positive pin.* If it does not protrude, it can cause a short.
*Check there are no shorts with your build in the atty itself. *Maybe the coil is touchiny where it shouldnt. Check with an ohm meter before firing on the mch mod and check regularly in case something may have moved with repetitive rewicking.
Understand *ohms law* and build a coil *well within the limits of your battery*
Then regarding using any external battery, *never carry them loose in your pocket or bag.* A coin or key can touch the positive and negative and cause it to short and possibly vent. Always use a battery sleeve or dedicated container when carrying batteries.

If you want to vape and dont want to worry about the above - or you dont understand the above - then dont get a mechanical mod. Rather go for a regulated mod with built in short circuit protection.

Battery safety and safe vaping practice is vitally important.

Reactions: Like 6 | Agree 4 | Winner 1 | Informative 1


----------



## gdigitel

A short in your shorts could leave you shorter

Reactions: Winner 1 | Funny 5


----------



## Rob Fisher

The only way to carry spare batteries.

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 4 | Winner 1


----------



## Quakes

Mech user's also need to avoid using old batteries. Always get new batteries for Mechs and replace before they getting to old.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## RichJB

Why are 18650 batteries released with thin, flimsy plastic covers that can tear easily and increase the chances of a short? AA and AAA batteries are manufactured with very sturdy covers/wraps that resist damage and tearing. Is there a reason why 18650s aren't?

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Winner 1


----------



## Rob Fisher

RichJB said:


> Why are 18650 batteries released with thin, flimsy plastic covers that can tear easily and increase the chances of a short? AA and AAA batteries are manufactured with very sturdy covers/wraps that resist damage and tearing. Is there a reason why 18650s aren't?



That's a really good point @RichJB... I can only imagine it's because 18650's were maybe designed to be used inside devices like laptop battery packs in thier own secure case... but this is a wild guess...

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 4


----------



## Clouds4Days

Battery safety always...



All vape srores be it B&M or online should make a standard battery safety pamphlet (even just a stupid little photo copied pamphlet) which they should give out when ever someone buys a new mod.

Be it a regulated or a mech mod.

There should also be a little test that somoeone does when purchasing a mech mod.

Sir vape does this By just asking you some questions which you answer verbaly when you buy in house, i know this because i have purchased mechs from them before (instore and online) but then there is a flaw in the system as you can just purchase it online without the test.

But the pamphlet idea i think is a good way to start some sort of safety with batteries moving forward.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## Kuhlkatz

Unfortunately, just like most motorcyclists can confirm, we become 'tame' the more we push the boundaries. The more we tend to speed or drive reckless with no ill effects, the more prone we become to keep on doing the stupid things we do. That is, until that one fateful day when the stuff hits the fan and, and you realize that are not really equipped or experienced enough to deal with the situation that arises. Unfortunately, it's also too late at that stage. Best is not to get to that point at all.

Don't be one of the vapers that continually push the limits - keep safe margins in your builds and regularly inspect your devices and batteries. Don't carry batteries that are not in a case or protective sleeve of their own. Keep your side clean.

I know that most of the ECIGSSA members are quite conscious about battery safety, and regularly will touch on safety awareness in response to a post from a new or less experienced member. Unfortunately we cannot force all members to read those posts, and can only hope that they do see one or two of these posts and that the information sticks.

I still think all vendors should include a safety leaflet like this one with each and every battery set purchased from them. I'll gladly pick up the cost for an extra 5 or 10 bucks that they would need to recover the costs. If I don't need it, I can also pass it on to someone else. Most electronic devices will include some warning about battery safety, but I don't think most bare-bones mods do. Quite a few clones are made as cheap as possible and includes no leaflets with the mod at all. Even some of the original mods don't have any manuals that touches on the safety aspects, they just cover the operational basics.

Vendors are the main source for most of the batteries we vapers use. As a noob vaper, I'm not going to order 20 sub-standard 1850 batteries from the cheapest source I can find, I'm going to start with a device and batteries from a B&M or an easily accessible kiosk somewhere. This purchase, be it a vape pen, a regulated mod or a mech MUST include some battery safety information. If there are any form of battery - especially 18650s - involved, I'd expect the vendor to tell me about any potential hazards, even if they just stuff a leaflet in my hand and tell me to please ensure I read and understand that before I use the device.

As an interest group on the internet, we probably reach only the enthusiasts of which most will pick up on the safety aspects very quick. Vendors deal with a far larger market and have the potential to make a big difference and raise awareness with most of their customers.

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## Lord Vetinari

Clouds4Days said:


> Battery safety always...
> View attachment 82463
> 
> 
> All vape srores be it B&M or online should make a standard battery safety pamphlet (even just a stupid little photo copied pamphlet) which they should give out when ever someone buys a new mod.
> 
> Be it a regulated or a mech mod.
> 
> There should also be a little test that somoeone does when purchasing a mech mod.
> 
> Sir vape does this By just asking you some questions which you answer verbaly when you buy in house, i know this because i have purchased mechs from them before (instore and online) but then there is a flaw in the system as you can just purchase it online without the test.
> 
> But the pamphlet idea i think is a good way to start some sort of safety with batteries moving forward.


I wholeheartedly support the idea of information leaflets to be supplied with all high drain batteries for all applications. Not only vaping, but not ignoring vaping. 

Even toasters come with warning info.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Rude Rudi

Nice piece...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Eequinox

Rob Fisher said:


>




This is a must watch ! very informative thank you


----------



## Silver

This thread has been stickied 

Lets hope as many members watch the video as possible

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## zadiac

It comes down to this:

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 1 | Winner 1 | Funny 5


----------



## Waine

Great thread and super informative video. 

Also, just because the 510 protrudes, it does not necessarily mean it's safe on a hybrid. Even after screwing the 510 pin out a bit, push the pin down hard on a table top to see if it goes back in. Sometimes the protruding 510 pin is just holding the center post in place, especially on the older 3 post RDA's. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 3


----------



## Waine

Just to add to the above comment, today I did the little table test on my clone Goon 22mm RDA's. The 510 pin goes straight back in. The pin is just holding the posts in the base of the RDA. 

I could of had a disaster on my hybrid top Mech mods had I not done the table test.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Reactions: Like 4


----------



## Gersh

And here I thought all RDAs are mech mod friendly 

Learnt something new today 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Arno "NoxFord" Steyn

Wow Thanx for that Share @Rob Fisher I had a friend that was concerned a day or two ago and I have shared this with him to provide some insight. I also shared it to FB as I was tagged in the latest mod failure article about 8 times so this will stop me from Sighing at everyone on my friends list

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## The_Ice

Very cool, thanks oom @Rob Fisher 
I'll be interested to see battery mooch's channel as well

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## SAVaper

Nice video.
Thanks


----------



## Highlander

Rob Fisher said:


>






Rob Fisher said:


>


----------



## Highlander

Would you say this battery, without any damage is safe. I GOT IT FROM THE VAPE SHOP THEN I PURCHASE MY MOD, ONLY SAW THE ALERT LATER WHEN I OPENED IT.


----------



## Gersh

Highlander said:


> Would you say this battery, without any damage is safe. I GOT IT FROM THE VAPE SHOP THEN I PURCHASE MY MOD, ONLY SAW THE ALERT LATER WHEN I OPENED IT.



Yeah it's safe ,, the warning is just there for regulation purposes.


----------



## Highlander

Gersh said:


> Yeah it's safe ,, the warning is just there for regulation purposes.


Thx Gersh....


----------



## Silver

Hi @Highlander 

I got a few brown LG HG2s a while back from Vape King which had the same warning sticker
Have been using them in my Reos for the past 2 months
They are working great


----------



## ET

Clever move on the side of the battery manufacturers. Now if somehow something goes wrong with the battery the can't be held liable.

Reactions: Agree 3


----------



## Waine

ET said:


> Clever move on the side of the battery manufacturers. Now if somehow something goes wrong with the battery the can't be held liable.



Agreed. Anything to avoid a civil claim.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Rob Fisher

OMG the general public out there are clueless about battery safety.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


----------



## RichJB

Mooch was saying on Tony Vapor Trail's interview that the 18650 battery manufacturers sell on the understanding that the end user will never touch the battery. Literally. They make 18650s to be inserted into battery packs and then never touched by human hands. How often do you touch the actual 18650s in your laptop? Or electric vehicle? Hence the warnings on the LG batteries. Customers are not abiding by LG's terms and conditions.

Which allows me to raise the issue again about what is the best way forward: for the entire population of vapers to spend hours researching and studying battery safety? Or for LG to change their terms and conditions and bring out a battery that _*is*_ designed to be handled by the end user?

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1


----------



## VapingSquid

RichJB said:


> ...
> 
> Which allows me to raise the issue again about what is the best way forward: for the entire population of vapers to spend hours researching and studying battery safety? Or for LG to change their terms and conditions and bring out a battery that _*is*_ designed to be handled by the end user?



I think that it is (unfortunately) much like the rest of the vaping world at the moment - take regulation for example: rather lump all products (liquids, tanks, mods) and jam them into the "smoking and tobacco" category of legislation, than take the time to research, write and discuss new legislation. It takes too much time, money and lawyers fees to create something new. 

As far as the batteries go, I'm kinda ok with LG just putting a warning on it though. They never created it for this, and they shouldn't have to take on more liability. In terms of the legislation example, well, I don't have to elaborate on the sentiment there!


----------



## RichJB

jl10101 said:


> As far as the batteries go, I'm kinda ok with LG just putting a warning on it though.



I'm not because it is anti-progressive. It was fine when vaping globally was 5k enthusiasts building tube mods in their backyard workshops and experimenting with this new technology. It's a mainstream activity now, practised by tens of millions around the world.

Let me draw an analogy with the car industry. That, too, started with a few engineering enthusiasts building prototypes in their backyard workshops. So they make this new thing called a "car" and they used rubber to make a wheel called a "tyre". However, it becomes apparent that rubber tyres are only safe to use on sand, gravel and grass. If you run them at high speed over bricks or tarmac, the friction becomes too great and the rubber bursts into flames. The rubber companies want to limit their liability so they put a sticker on all rubber shipments saying "Warning! Not to be used for car tyres". 

Anyway, cars grow in popularity and soon millions of them are being made and sold around the world. Media reports start appearing of tyres bursting into flames when they were used on tar roads. And the car industry's and experienced car owners' response is "Ja but n00bs must do their homework. They must know that you can only use rubber tyres on sand, gravel or grass. If you use it on tar, you're an eejit who deserves to be Darwined. Don't be an Andy - don't drive on tar!"

If that had happened in the car industry, the rubber manufacturers would have recognised car tyres as an exciting and profitable new development, and would have worked with the car manufacturers to deliver a rubber compound that _doesn't_ burst into flames when used on tar roads. Why is this not happening? Battery manufacturers are selling a lot of cells to vapers, and numbers are growing exponentially. Is that the limit of the battery manufacturers' engagement and cooperation with the vaping industry - "Our product is as it is. We will not change or improve it and we wash our hands of all consequences arising from it"? That is unacceptable imo.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


----------



## VapingSquid

RichJB said:


> I'm not because it is anti-progressive. It was fine when vaping globally was 5k enthusiasts building tube mods in their backyard workshops and experimenting with this new technology. It's a mainstream activity now, practised by tens of millions around the world.
> 
> Let me draw an analogy with the car industry. That, too, started with a few engineering enthusiasts building prototypes in their backyard workshops. So they make this new thing called a "car" and they used rubber to make a wheel called a "tyre". However, it becomes apparent that rubber tyres are only safe to use on sand, gravel and grass. If you run them at high speed over bricks or tarmac, the friction becomes too great and the rubber bursts into flames. The rubber companies want to limit their liability so they put a sticker on all rubber shipments saying "Warning! Not to be used for car tyres".
> 
> Anyway, cars grow in popularity and soon millions of them are being made and sold around the world. Media reports start appearing of tyres bursting into flames when they were used on tar roads. And the car industry's and experienced car owners' response is "Ja but n00bs must do their homework. They must know that you can only use rubber tyres on sand, gravel or grass. If you use it on tar, you're an eejit who deserves to be Darwined. Don't be an Andy - don't drive on tar!"
> 
> If that had happened in the car industry, the rubber manufacturers would have recognised car tyres as an exciting and profitable new development, and would have worked with the car manufacturers to deliver a rubber compound that _doesn't_ burst into flames when used on tar roads. Why is this not happening? Battery manufacturers are selling a lot of cells to vapers, and numbers are growing exponentially. Is that the limit of the battery manufacturers' engagement and cooperation with the vaping industry - "Our product is as it is. We will not change or improve it and we wash our hands of all consequences arising from it"? That is unacceptable imo.



I can completely see where you are coming from. And while the industries are very different, I think it's for exactly that reason that I am sitting on my side of the fence. For me, it's especially the way it is given that vaping is entrenched in the medical side of things. This is where companies like LG who make batteries, would understandably not want to be involved in what people are inhaling, or in health in general.

I guess it really depends on the product, the manufacturer and what people decide to do with it at the end of the day. As a silly example, say manufacturer X creates the best and sharpest scissors advertised as the perfect office stationary. People then start using it in some strange sub culture of self surgery or something... Now, should the manufacture simply warn that it's not what the scissors are intended for? Or should they make a range of these scissors because they are invariably going to be used for said strange deed, but then, they *must* take on all the possible slack, responsibilities and risk of cleanliness, possible death, scarring, lawsuits etc etc?

I agree, there is a gap in the market. I guess it's just going to take a brave manufacturer to jump on it! I'm just not sure LG are keen to effectively enter the "health" market, as some lawyers etc will view it as.

Apologies for the...strange...analogy.


----------



## RichJB

The thing is that even absent regulation or being forced to change their wraps for H&S reasons, there is a competitive advantage for battery manufacturers in improving their wraps. If one 18650 brand suddenly come out with sturdier and better wraps where the chances of a torn wrap are greatly reduced, and where you never have to rewrap the battery, would you not be motivated to buy that brand? I certainly would.

It falls within the ambit of the capitalist "build a better mousetrap" ethos. I can understand battery manufacturers not wanting to associate themselves with vaping as a whole. What I can't understand is battery manufacturers not wanting to appeal to vapers, and be the brand that vapers prefer. Surely sales to vaping can't be _*that*_ insignificant that the manufacturers don't even care?

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Soprono

Brand power is what plays a part here, with the whole market in such a controversial state I'm sure they don't even want to be bothered with the politics and possible backlash they could receive from being associated (Sony, LG..), Efest did a crap job and that impacted them harshly. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Clouder

I was reading the one newspaper article and it's comments about a mechmod that exploded in the guys face and broke 7 or something of his teeth.

What utter BS!

If you cannot do the basic self-awareness about safety, don't vape, if you do and you get hurt, *IT's ON YOU!
*
It's like a little principle we use in law enforcement called 'ignorance is no excuse of the law' same thing applies here.

You don't go driving on public streets without any knowledge about rules of the road like stop at a stop sign, so why vape on a mech mod (which is meant for professional vapers) without a basic understanding of how to prevent battery venting and catastrophic failure? Baffles my mind, honestly! Leaves me speechless...

Then he still has the *SHEER AUDACITY *to go out and say that he always had the vape shop install the battery for him. If you know SO little, that you do not even understand a basic step like installing a battery, WTTTTFFFFFFF are you doing rocking a mech mod????

I saw a child as in like 13 or 14 years old the other day in a shopping mall with a mech mod... Does parents know how dangerous it is???

Nevermind even that, what type of a parent allows a 13 year old to vape/smoke?? If that was me, my father would've donnered me, stone cold DEAD


----------



## RichJB

Clouder said:


> You don't go driving on public streets without any knowledge about rules of the road like stop at a stop sign, so why vape on a mech mod



They are two different things: driving is a regulated activity. You cannot do it without a licence and everybody knows that. Vaping is not regulated. It is a consumer item, you can buy it if you want it just like you can buy ice-cream or furniture polish or socks. So how do we reconcile the two? Do we make vaping a regulated activity like driving, where you have to stand in a queue at a government office, pay a licence fee and have some govt official check to see that you are suitably qualified to do it?


----------



## Clouder

RichJB said:


> They are two different things: driving is a regulated activity. You cannot do it without a licence and everybody knows that. Vaping is not regulated. It is a consumer item, you can buy it if you want it just like you can buy ice-cream or furniture polish or socks. So how do we reconcile the two? Do we make vaping a regulated activity like driving, where you have to stand in a queue at a government office, pay a licence fee and have some govt official check to see that you are suitably qualified to do it?



I meant the self awareness part.... You don't blindly do something without knowing anything about it. If you do, it's on you.


----------



## RichJB

You can only be self-aware if the dangers of something are self-evident. I can be self-aware enough not to hack my finger with a carving knife. So shops don't need to warn me about the dangers of carving knives because Jan Publiek is expected to know. It's common sense. The danger of torn wraps on a battery is not intuitive enough. Did you know that torn wraps on an 18650 are a hazard before you started vaping? It's fine to say "people must do their homework". The problem is that people don't know that they need to know these things. As Mooch says in the interview I linked above, you can't blame someone for not knowing if they don't know (and it's not intuitive) that they need to know. Batteries are not hazardous in other appliances. We use them in Walkmans, torches, cars, TV remotes, phones, laptops without any hazards. Consumers are going to assume that the same applies to batteries in vaping.

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## DoubleD

Rob Fisher said:


> OMG the general public out there are clueless about battery safety.
> View attachment 99469



I cant help but laugh.... seriously wtf

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## RichJB

Soprono said:


> Brand power is what plays a part here, with the whole market in such a controversial state I'm sure they don't even want to be bothered with the politics and possible backlash they could receive from being associated (Sony, LG..), Efest did a crap job and that impacted them harshly.



Sure. But then, as in industry, vaping needs to find a way forward. Being dependent upon battery suppliers who don't want to be associated with vaping, and who aren't willing to lift a finger to improve vaping batteries, is not a way forward.

Let's take the issue of DAAP in juice. Flavour houses didn't disassociate themselves with vaping and refuse to change the product. They reformulated and gave us better (or at least healthier) products. So we can move forward with the flavour houses because they don't mind being associated with vaping. If the big six 18650 battery manufacturers think that vaping is too cringe to be associated with, the vaping industry should find a way to sever ties and move ahead without them.


----------



## RichJB

OK, following on from this discussion, Mooch has made an announcement regarding LG batteries:



> LG Chem is sending Cease & Desist orders to vendors who they feel are still selling LG batteries to the vaping community. As some of you might know, LG and the other battery companies are dealing with multiple lawsuits from vapers who have had battery accidents. Sony and LG added warnings to their batteries but, evidently, LG didn't feel this was enough. I don't know how many vendors will stop selling LG batteries and for how long but we will probably see multiple vendors removing LG batteries from their websites. It's already started. That's all the info I can discuss here, for now. I'll have updates as I learn more.



Mooch's post on Reddit.

I think this is a good thing in a way. Vaping needs to mature. By that, I mean it needs to start acting like an industry, not like an enthusiast hobby club. It has grown beyond that point now. So my questions:

1) Will vape vendors no longer selling LG batteries mean that vapers will no longer buy them? I can still buy them for my 'torch', right? How will this affect looming regulation? If regulators can't stop vapers buying LG batteries from other sources, might they look at banning the devices instead?

2) Will the vaping industry catch a wake-up and start doing something about those cursed gossamer-thin wraps on 18650s? Or will they continue to follow the non-starter line of reasoning that "you must do your homework"?

3) Is the vaping market large enough to make the design of a vape-specific battery viable? My understanding is that it is horrendously expensive to design a new type of battery. It is understandable that vaping piggy-backed off existing designs up to now. But is it big enough to start negotiating its own dedicated battery type with the big boys?

Of course, this plays perfectly into big tobacco's hands. They designed their batteries from the start to be safer. Although they had teething problems with fires/explosions especially while charging, their batteries with their harder tear-proof casings are involved in fewer and fewer accidents now. Vaping needs to come up with some answers quickly. 

Either way, I see a limited future for mechs. Even the most vape-friendly suggested changes to US vaping laws, the amendments proposed by Rep Duncan Hunter, call for all mods to have safety circuitry built in. Some US vapers told me "No problem if mechs are banned, we just start buying 'torches' instead..." But therein lies the regulatory angle again. If banning mechs doesn't stop the problem, will regulators cast their net wider and start banning other things?

Reactions: Like 2 | Informative 1


----------



## Strontium

Wonder how long till other manufacturers follow suit or launch a battery dedicated to vaping


----------



## Average vapor Joe

Strontium said:


> Wonder how long till other manufacturers follow suit or launch a battery dedicated to vaping


You mean like ijoys 20700 batteries. Not sure if they make them but they sure do sell them as their own


----------



## RichJB

It is hugely expensive to manufacture batteries. The only people who manufacture high drain batteries are the industry giants like LG, Sony, Samsung, Panasonic, Sanyo. The others just buy those batteries and rewrap them with their own branding. I'm not sure vaping is big enough to merit a dedicated battery manufacturer yet. Remember that of all the world's millions of vapers, the majority are still on big tobacco cigalikes. The people who use open system mods and tanks like we do are still a minority. So I think any solution has to be in conjunction with the huge players. As vaping grows, it may become viable for a dedicated vaping battery manufacturer to set up shop.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Raindance

Good arguments being presented from both sides. So much so i find myself indecisive on the topic. I have to admit that i do lean towards the Darwinist principles but then again....

In any case, my fear is that changes to battery availabilty and/or form factor could condemn all our beloved 18650 mods to the ranks of ornaments in the case of a worst case scenario. We remain dependant on the suppliers of these goods in order to ply our 'trade'. Well, there is the lipo option but how do i make that fit into my Therion?

This is a truly uncomfortable direction we seem to be heading in.

Regards


----------



## Roodt

I think now would be the perfect time to start making batteries specifically aimed at vaping (looking at tesla here), there is a ever increasing number of vapers world wide, and if a company can get in the game now, and improve battery safety, they will always hold the majority market share for years to come.

Batery safety is the last "niggle" anti vaping groups have to cling on to. The venting battery stories are few and far between, and usually end user related issues, but these are being blown out of proportion to suit the needs of those anti vaping.

If this hurdle can be crossed successfully now, then there is no limits to how big vaping can and will go. 

Just my 2 cents worth...

Ps, any forumites want to invest in a battery manufacturing plant??


----------



## Silver

Thanks for bringing this up @RichJB
Was great to read what Mooch says - he knows about batteries

I just dont understand why the battery manufacturers cant modify their existing designs to improve on things instead of having to redesign an entirely new battery? Surely with their knowledge and experitse they could do it? I.e. Make a new line of batteries based on existing ones that have a few things tweaked - especially for vaping.


----------



## aktorsyl

Personally I think the way forward are battery packs. Let the mod manufacturers create battery packs containing 18650's, 26650's, 20700's, whatever the hell they want, but.. yknow.. in a pack with a connector at the one end, you slide it into your mod and you're done. Obviously you'd need a charger to take the packs too, but that's easy enough.

If that can become the industry standard, then that's a win-win. Battery packs might not be 100% safe but it's a hell of a lot better than working with the batteries themselves.

Reactions: Winner 1


----------



## DaveH

Well I think the manufacturers are totally irresponsible, they should be forced to make a battery that is intrinsically safe, not one that can potentially explode.
If it is rated for a maximum current of (say) 30A then at 36A something inside the battery goes 'puft' one one gets hurt and the battery is thrown away.

Didn't you mess about with batteries when you were a kid I know I did. Wait till a seven year old gets blinded ...................... hopefully something will get done before that happens.

Dave


----------



## aktorsyl

DaveH said:


> Well I think the manufacturers are totally irresponsible, they should be forced to make a battery that is intrinsically safe, not one that can potentially explode.
> If it is rated for a maximum current of (say) 30A then at 36A something inside the battery goes 'puft' one one gets hurt and the battery is thrown away.
> 
> Didn't you mess about with batteries when you were a kid I know I did. Wait till a seven year old gets blinded ...................... hopefully something will get done before that happens.
> 
> Dave


Fair enough, but kids don't typically play with Li-ion batteries 
I agree with you, though.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## RichJB

Silver said:


> I just dont understand why the battery manufacturers cant modify their existing designs



They don't want to be associated with vaping. If they tweaked their designs, made tougher wraps, etc, it would be a tacit admission on their part that they now accept that their batteries can be and are used for vaping. That, in turn, opens them up to litigation if the battery causes a fire or explosion. It also puts them into the politically sensitive sphere of being seen to support continued nicotine addiction. By distancing themselves from vaping, and insisting that their batteries should not be used for vaping, they cannot be held liable when things go wrong. It's a 'best of both worlds' scenario for them. They continue to profit from vaping driving sales of their batteries - but without the downside of having to take accountability for their product.

It's a tricky situation because the only way to balance the supplier/customer relationship is through market forces. If the vaping industry went to LG en masse and told them look, improve your batteries or we won't use them and you'll lose our business, then they'd jump into action. But we don't have that leverage for several reasons:

1) The future of vaping is uncertain. It stands to be regulated heavily, which might mandate a move towards closed systems (cigalikes) rather than the open-system mods and tanks that we use. No battery manufacturer is going to retool and redesign their batteries in an uncertain market where open systems could be banned within a year. At the very least, they will wait until regulation is decided and the industry settled.

2) They have us over a barrel. We need high drain batteries, only a handful of giant companies manufacture them, and none of them needs our business. Their primary customer is the electric car market. We get the 'reject' 18650 batteries which aren't A-bin batteries and thus can't go to the car market. So we are not top of their business priorities by any means.

3) The more fuss we kick up about it, the more negative publicity it brings to vaping. So the vaping industry is unlikely to make a stink about this, especially in the prevailing climate of vaping being under close scrutiny by regulators.

4) Vapers will continue to use their batteries anyway, regardless of industry pressure. So what if vaping vendors aren't allowed to stock 18650s? I'll just buy from a generic battery supplier, there are many. So LG know they won't lose our business unless a dedicated vaping battery manufacturer emerges who can produce high drain batteries at the same cost. That seems highly unlikely, given the economies of scale that LG and other giants can leverage. A dedicated specialised vaping battery (not used in other sectors) is likely to be way more expensive than a generic 18650.

I think the best solution lies in a third party provider who buys up batteries from the giants, rewraps and improves them before selling on to the vaping public - and then takes accountability for the product too. In other words, even if it's an LG battery under the wrap, the third party provider takes the rap if it explodes. Whether such a provider will emerge is uncertain. I think there is a market, though. If a rewrapper sold batteries with much more robust wraps which don't tear through handling, but which cost a few bucks more, I'd buy them. I'm a cheap-arse but safety is one area I'm willing to spend on. The peace of mind of knowing that batteries are safer, and won't require periodic rewrapping, is worth a slightly higher retail price imo.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Thanks 1


----------



## JakesSA

Odd that protection circuits haven't found their way into vaping batteries already, as found in 18650 batteries intended for torches . I imagine its just a re-settable fuse of some sort. That will solve the 'fire in the pocket', 'stuck fire button' scenarios as least.

Inserting batteries upside down in mechs when the cover is torn .. well maybe better covers will do the job but very few materials are indestructible.

Lets not beat around the bush, the common theme here - mechs. 

Bigger problem in my opinion - fake batteries.

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## Jean claude Vaaldamme

So what happen if you run a battery to flat? Will it explode?
Reason why I ask. I have this headlamp that I use for fishing. Now this is a meneer se headlamp. I can see if the guy fishing on the other side of the dam, brushed his teeth. It takes two 18650 batteries and is led.
It came with two chinatown 18650 batteries, but they last like 15min on full bright. So I want to put some authentic vape batteries is.
The problem is that with these led lights they normally go off only when battery is really drained.
The bigger problem is the two batteries sit on the strap at the back of me head.

Never had a problem with the chinatown batts, run them till light goes dead and then in charger they say 0% when put in.

Reactions: Optimistic 1


----------



## zadiac

Jean claude Vaaldamme said:


> So what happen if you run a battery to flat? Will it explode?
> Reason why I ask. I have this headlamp that I use for fishing. Now this is a meneer se headlamp. I can see if the guy fishing on the other side of the dam, brushed his teeth. It takes two 18650 batteries and is led.
> It came with two chinatown 18650 batteries, but they last like 15min on full bright. So I want to put some authentic vape batteries is.
> The problem is that with these led lights they normally go off only when battery is really drained.
> The bigger problem is the two batteries sit on the strap at the back of me head.
> 
> Never had a problem with the chinatown batts, run them till light goes dead and then in charger they say 0% when put in.



Well, if they do explode, you'll never know

Reactions: Winner 1 | Funny 11


----------



## Clouds4Days

Jean claude Vaaldamme said:


> So what happen if you run a battery to flat? Will it explode?
> Reason why I ask. I have this headlamp that I use for fishing. Now this is a meneer se headlamp. I can see if the guy fishing on the other side of the dam, brushed his teeth. It takes two 18650 batteries and is led.
> It came with two chinatown 18650 batteries, but they last like 15min on full bright. So I want to put some authentic vape batteries is.
> The problem is that with these led lights they normally go off only when battery is really drained.
> The bigger problem is the two batteries sit on the strap at the back of me head.
> 
> Never had a problem with the chinatown batts, run them till light goes dead and then in charger they say 0% when put in.



As far as I'm aware the batteries wont vent because of running them flat you will just deteriorate their life span.

Batteries can vent from pushing the amps over what the specified battery limit is or the negative of a torn battery wrap touching on the positive of a housing creating a short.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 4


----------



## Andre

Jean claude Vaaldamme said:


> So what happen if you run a battery to flat? Will it explode?
> Reason why I ask. I have this headlamp that I use for fishing. Now this is a meneer se headlamp. I can see if the guy fishing on the other side of the dam, brushed his teeth. It takes two 18650 batteries and is led.
> It came with two chinatown 18650 batteries, but they last like 15min on full bright. So I want to put some authentic vape batteries is.
> The problem is that with these led lights they normally go off only when battery is really drained.
> The bigger problem is the two batteries sit on the strap at the back of me head.
> 
> Never had a problem with the chinatown batts, run them till light goes dead and then in charger they say 0% when put in.


Those chinatown batteries probably has a higher mAh, but far lower Amp rating, than your vape batteries. So, chances are the vape batteries will give you even less than those 15 minutes. Do not think they will explode, but if the headlamp really drains them fully (which I doubt) you might have problems getting them to recharge. 
I McGyvered 2 vape batteries into a solar powered LED spotlight without any problems.

Reactions: Like 3


----------



## Jean claude Vaaldamme

Andre said:


> Those chinatown batteries probably has a higher mAh, but far lower Amp rating, than your vape batteries. So, chances are the vape batteries will give you even less than those 15 minutes. Do not think they will explode, but if the headlamp really drains them fully (which I doubt) you might have problems getting them to recharge.
> I McGyvered 2 vape batteries into a solar powered LED spotlight without any problems.


Yes I see they have 4800mah, but no amp rating
Funny to see them in my Golisi charger that show percentage. Put them in and they on 0%, then the percentage climbs faster than a stopwatch, within minute or two its at 98% and then a few minutes later its full charge

Reactions: Optimistic 1


----------



## Hooked

Jean claude Vaaldamme said:


> So what happen if you run a battery to flat? Will it explode?
> Reason why I ask. I have this headlamp that I use for fishing. Now this is a meneer se headlamp. I can see if the guy fishing on the other side of the dam, brushed his teeth. It takes two 18650 batteries and is led.
> It came with two chinatown 18650 batteries, but they last like 15min on full bright. So I want to put some authentic vape batteries is.
> The problem is that with these led lights they normally go off only when battery is really drained.
> The bigger problem is the two batteries sit on the strap at the back of me head.
> 
> Never had a problem with the chinatown batts, run them till light goes dead and then in charger they say 0% when put in.






Jean claude Vaaldamme said:


> The bigger problem is the two batteries sit on the strap at the back of me head.



The Tale of the Headess Fisherman

Reactions: Funny 2


----------



## Faiyaz Cheulkar

Jean claude Vaaldamme said:


> Yes I see they have 4800mah, but no amp rating
> Funny to see them in my Golisi charger that show percentage. Put them in and they on 0%, then the percentage climbs faster than a stopwatch, within minute or two its at 98% and then a few minutes later its full charge



sounds like a faulty battery, even if you are charging them at 2 amp it shouldn't take couple of minute.

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## Puff the Magic Dragon

My wife has used the cheap Chinese batteries in her seriously powerful head torch for over three years without any problems.







They are super cheap. Under R20.

She is a fitness nut and does Bootcamp four days a week. In winter (early Class) they are used for over an hour at least four times a week.

They are great for low Amp usage. *Do not use for vaping !!!*

Reactions: Like 3


----------



## Jean claude Vaaldamme

Puff the Magic Dragon said:


> My wife has used the cheap Chinese batteries in her seriously powerful head torch for over three years without any problems.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are super cheap. Under R20.
> 
> She is a fitness nut and does Bootcamp four days a week. In winter (early Class) they are used for over an hour at least four times a week.
> 
> They are great for low Amp usage. *Do not use for vaping !!!*



Thats the same batteries I have. Maybe my lamp is to strong. It maybe will last an hour, but in 10-15 the light is just half bright

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Puff the Magic Dragon

Jean claude Vaaldamme said:


> Thats the same batteries I have. Maybe my lamp is to strong. It maybe will last an hour, but in 10-15 the light is just half bright




I checked with my boss. She confirms that she gets about an hour on full power. The torch has a Cree T6 LED. really bright.

The batteries are so cheap you can take a box full of them with you when you do pap gooing.

Reactions: Funny 3


----------



## Spink

Jean claude Vaaldamme said:


> So what happen if you run a battery to flat? Will it explode?
> Reason why I ask. I have this headlamp that I use for fishing. Now this is a meneer se headlamp. I can see if the guy fishing on the other side of the dam, brushed his teeth. It takes two 18650 batteries and is led.
> It came with two chinatown 18650 batteries, but they last like 15min on full bright. So I want to put some authentic vape batteries is.
> The problem is that with these led lights they normally go off only when battery is really drained.
> The bigger problem is the two batteries sit on the strap at the back of me head.
> 
> Never had a problem with the chinatown batts, run them till light goes dead and then in charger they say 0% when put in.



Hi, Just check the 18650s supplied to see if they have circuitry strapped onto one end. Led torches don't normally have safety circuitry built in. Which is why its piggy backed onto the supplied batteries normally. The piggy backed circuitry does what a mod would. Stops them from running below a certain voltage and stops over draw.

The extremely high power LEDs drain batteries quickly. But the LED itself would get extremely hot. I assume the ones you are using aren't those. So the battery life of 15mins doesn't sound right. Sounds like the capacity of the batteries has been compromised over time due to overdraining them. Or are fake amounts on the actual battery.

LEDs need a certain amount of power running through them to work. However it is normally a power range. So that's why the LED will dim over time. Once it reaches its limit. It will no longer draw power from the battery and turn off as stated. The question is what is that number and is it below the safety of 3.2 volts or the 2.8 volts max suggested drop on an 18650.

The 18650 itself won't explode from over draining, but more from over the amp limit. Over amp draw makes the batteries very hot and that's when thermal run away happens and they explode. The same goes for batteries which have been over drained numerous times and then charged. Over draining the battery creates crystals in the battery which could piece the internal insulation (especially when charging it again - that's when they get hot). When there is no internal insulation this will be a short circuit and thermal run away will occur. So if they get hot to the touch when charging or being used stop what you are doing immediately. Once it hits a certain temp it will be game over.

Reactions: Informative 5


----------



## Spink

Jean claude Vaaldamme said:


> Thats the same batteries I have. Maybe my lamp is to strong. It maybe will last an hour, but in 10-15 the light is just half bright




Ok so if it lasts an hour, that sounds more likely to be correct.

You won't get full brightness for long as there is power drop off on the battery as it runs down. Better batteries won't power drop off as fast. However I wouldn't expect it to be much longer than 15mins. Maybe an extra 5 mins max. You won't ever get full brightness for an hour.

As I mentioned above LED's can work within a power range. So full power is brighter but medium power is dimmer. Lower power can't function.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


----------



## Spink

Example of attached circuitry below.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


----------



## Jean claude Vaaldamme

Spink said:


> Example of attached circuitry below.
> 
> 
> View attachment 161047


Thanks, yes I see the chinamall batteries that came with the light says short circut and over current protection. So maybe they have a board inside


----------



## Christos

Jean claude Vaaldamme said:


> Thanks, yes I see the chinamall batteries that came with the light says short circut and over current protection. So maybe they have a board inside


What headlamp do you have?

I use samsung NCR 18650 for my headlamps and the headlamps start to flash before the batteries need a recharge. Like a low voltage warning. I get a decent 8 hours use on a set of 2 18650s.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Jean claude Vaaldamme

Christos said:


> What headlamp do you have?
> 
> I use samsung NCR 18650 for my headlamps and the headlamps start to flash before the batteries need a recharge. Like a low voltage warning. I get a decent 8 hours use on a set of 2 18650s.


Fonkong


----------



## Silver

Christos said:


> What headlamp do you have?
> 
> I use samsung NCR 18650 for my headlamps and the headlamps start to flash before the batteries need a recharge. Like a low voltage warning. I get a decent 8 hours use on a set of 2 18650s.



@Christos - what headlamp have you got?
My little LED headlamp thingie you strap on your head is from Led Lenser - but it takes those AAA batteries. Not 18650s. Would love one that could take 18650s


----------



## Spink

Jean claude Vaaldamme said:


> Fonkong
> View attachment 161056




That's a solid LED you are running there. For 2x 18650s an hour is pretty decent runtime. An LED that size with the output described, will most definitely be power hungry.


----------



## Spink

Christos said:


> What headlamp do you have?
> 
> I use samsung NCR 18650 for my headlamps and the headlamps start to flash before the batteries need a recharge. Like a low voltage warning. I get a decent 8 hours use on a set of 2 18650s.




Please be careful. As far as I know those batteries don't have circuit protection. Unless they were added afterwards.

The fact that it flashes shows you are running the battery quite low without circuit protection (Or at least no circuitry which provides constant power output - Very few LED torches have that as standard built in). I don't want you to run the risk of over discharging and causing premature battery wear and possible thermal runaway when charging again.

Only way to truly find out is research the LED module and see what it can function at. Then see if it's within the acceptable battery limits. Or you have a decent battery charger which shows the voltages. Or use a voltmeter to read the batteries. Nobody wants something bad to happen. So rather be safe than sorry.

Only way you can run 8 hours with 2x 18650s at the same time is the LED module power usage and output is far lower than that of @Jean claude Vaaldamme. Even over discharging the batteries on his unit would not get you to 8 hours.


----------



## Christos

Spink said:


> Please be careful. As far as I know those batteries don't have circuit protection. Unless they were added afterwards.
> 
> The fact that it flashes shows you are running the battery quite low without circuit protection (Or at least no circuitry which provides constant power output - Very few LED torches have that as standard built in). I don't want you to run the risk of over discharging and causing premature battery wear and possible thermal runaway when charging again.
> 
> Only way to truly find out is research the LED module and see what it can function at. Then see if it's within the acceptable battery limits. Or you have a decent battery charger which shows the voltages. Or use a voltmeter to read the batteries. Nobody wants something bad to happen. So rather be safe than sorry.
> 
> Only way you can run 8 hours with 2x 18650s at the same time is the LED module power usage and output is far lower than that of @Jean claude Vaaldamme. Even over discharging the batteries on his unit would not get you to 8 hours.


My batteries discharged are at 3.1v at their worst.
I generally charge them before the headlamp even let's me know they are flat. Roughly T about 3.6v.

You are correct the batteries are not protected.
The combined mah is about 7400mah and the headlamp is hardly ever run at its highest setting. For decent light I have a 2000 lumen fenix that I use with protected 26650 batteries.

@Silver it's a led lenser H14 R.2.
Takss 4x AA's or 2 x 18650s

Reactions: Like 1 | Thanks 1


----------



## Spink

Christos said:


> My batteries discharged are at 3.1v at their worst.
> I generally charge them before the headlamp even let's me know they are flat. Roughly T about 3.6v.
> 
> You are correct the batteries are not protected.
> The combined mah is about 7400mah and the headlamp is hardly ever run at its highest setting. For decent light I have a 2000 lumen fenix that I use with protected 26650 batteries.
> 
> @Silver it's a led lenser H14 R.2.
> Takss 4x AA's or 2 x 18650s




Great. Glad to hear you are responsible and know what you are doing. Nobody wants an unfortunate accident to happen.


----------



## Christos

Spink said:


> Great. Glad to hear you are responsible and know what you are doing. Nobody wants an unfortunate accident to happen.



All good!

I have a vast collection of lipo batteries and many years of use and logs for each battery so battery safety is very high on my list.

I have had a 2 cell lipo spontaneously combust in storage so proper storage is also important to me.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Morix

Good day. 

I would like to put my 2c in as well. 
Firstly i use a mech everyday ( VGOD pro mech 2) with a vtc5a with a 0.14 build on it.

I know that is exceeding the CDR. But i have come to learn my cells, what they can and can't handle. I always check the wraps and the positive side of my cells if the 510 didn't dent it in.

The heat of the cells is the other thing i check when exceeding the CDR. Just adding that i don't chain vape my mechs. I also understand that i will probably have to replace them each year rather then every 2 + years because of the way i use them..

I have a general rule of thumb to replace cells after a year... Even if they are still fine... 


i do NOT encourage this by me posting this...even if i use a mech within the cells CDR i still check the heat though... But i have found that my sweet spot is 0.12.

Above is one post made by Mooch. 

Thank you.

Reactions: Like 1 | Can relate 1


----------



## Silver

While you may be able to pulse your batteries above their CDR rating for a short while, a potential problem is if your mod gets stuck in an auto firing position in your pocket and you dont know about it. Or it could be in your car etc.

Then it could overheat and vent

Thats one of the reasons why its not recommended to build a coil that results in an amp draw above the CDR (continuous discharge rating)

Reactions: Agree 4


----------



## ARYANTO

Jean claude Vaaldamme said:


> So what happen if you run a battery to flat? Will it explode?
> Reason why I ask. I have this headlamp that I use for fishing. Now this is a meneer se headlamp. I can see if the guy fishing on the other side of the dam, brushed his teeth. It takes two 18650 batteries and is led.
> It came with two chinatown 18650 batteries, but they last like 15min on full bright. So I want to put some authentic vape batteries is.
> The problem is that with these led lights they normally go off only when battery is really drained.
> The bigger problem is the two batteries sit on the strap at the back of me head.
> 
> Never had a problem with the chinatown batts, run them till light goes dead and then in charger they say 0% when put in.



JCV buy 2 pairs normal 18650 install in fish finder _on garden chair_[DAYLIGHT] Test your casting in the pool , if they fad [bats] , charge and put new set in , I Think youll be red but unexploded [and the chair]

Reactions: Funny 2


----------



## Morix

Silver said:


> While you may be able to pulse your batteries above their CDR rating for a short while, a potential problem is if your mod gets stuck in an auto firing position in your pocket and you dont know about it. Or it could be in your car etc.
> 
> Then it could overheat and vent
> 
> Thats one of the reasons why its not recommended to build a coil that results in an amp draw above the CDR (continuous discharge rating)


That is true @Silver 

Taking extreme precautions are vital. When im done with my mech and im out and about.. I remove the battery. If i want to take some hits i just insert it again.

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 1


----------



## Rob Fisher

I had two new almost battery vents this week. One with a VTC6 and one with a Basen 26650. I was looking at some of my older mods I never use and they don't have battery orientation on them and I put them in wrong... the smell of burning and the heat build-up tipped me off and managed to get both out of the mods in time... the batteries were pretty hot but the mods seemed to be OK.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 8


----------



## Silo

Wow! Glad you're okay! You see even veterans can make little forgettable mistakes! This is just a good reminder to keep cautious with batteries and mods!

Reactions: Agree 6


----------



## Feliks Karp

A month before lockdown, I wasn't paying attention, and my wrap had warped a bit, I thought "meh whatever, re-wrap later", the insulator ring had come out without me realising. The resulting short produced enough heat to melt the plastic behind the contact on the mod.

Don't be lazy like me even with regulated mods.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 4 | Informative 2


----------



## vapeandacrepe

Thought I'd ask a question here instead of a new thread.
I once had 6 x Samsung 30Q 3000mah batteries (2 sets of 3 married batteries, always charged in unison).
I sold 4 of them.
The remaining 2 batteries aren't married (1 from first set, 1 from second set).
Can I still use them in a VV regulated dual-battery mod? Considering they were both used at the same in the same way but in different sets, but unmarried, is there still a risk? Sorry for stupid question, not clued up on this.

Reactions: Like 3


----------



## Clouds4Days

vapeandacrepe said:


> Thought I'd ask a question here instead of a new thread.
> I once had 6 x Samsung 30Q 3000mah batteries (2 sets of 3 married batteries, always charged in unison).
> I sold 4 of them.
> The remaining 2 batteries aren't married (1 from first set, 1 from second set).
> Can I still use them in a VV regulated dual-battery mod? Considering they were both used at the same in the same way but in different sets, but unmarried, is there still a risk? Sorry for stupid question, not clued up on this.



Yeah you can use them brother.
Just take note after you use them and you stick them back in the charger that they both draining equally within +/- 0.1v .
If they are not equal you will be straining one battery more then the other.

Reactions: Like 3 | Thanks 1 | Informative 1


----------



## Christos

vapeandacrepe said:


> Thought I'd ask a question here instead of a new thread.
> I once had 6 x Samsung 30Q 3000mah batteries (2 sets of 3 married batteries, always charged in unison).
> I sold 4 of them.
> The remaining 2 batteries aren't married (1 from first set, 1 from second set).
> Can I still use them in a VV regulated dual-battery mod? Considering they were both used at the same in the same way but in different sets, but unmarried, is there still a risk? Sorry for stupid question, not clued up on this.


Depending on what charger you have, you could measure the internal resistance of each cell and if they were almost identical it would be safe.
So say 20mOHMS and 19mOHMS.

If your regulated device is say a DNA device, it does have some balancing features that would protect you in case the batteries were unmatched.

I don’t recommenced the methods above without taking into consideration that it is far easier to just purchase two new cells for added peace of mind if you don’t want to become a battery enthusiast overnight.

Reactions: Like 3 | Thanks 1


----------



## Christos

Feliks Karp said:


> A month before lockdown, I wasn't paying attention, and my wrap had warped a bit, I thought "meh whatever, re-wrap later", the insulator ring had come out without me realising. The resulting short produced enough heat to melt the plastic behind the contact on the mod.
> 
> Don't be lazy like me even with regulated mods.


Preach!

Reactions: Like 3 | Useful 1


----------



## Christos

Silver said:


> While you may be able to pulse your batteries above their CDR rating for a short while, a potential problem is if your mod gets stuck in an auto firing position in your pocket and you dont know about it. Or it could be in your car etc.
> 
> Then it could overheat and vent
> 
> Thats one of the reasons why its not recommended to build a coil that results in an amp draw above the CDR (continuous discharge rating)


Another issue is that a lot of the well known and readily available batteries punch higher in their label amp ratings than they actually do in real world tests. Interestingly the molicels push out almost what they are actually rated for on paper which is why there is such interest in a battery that performs almost identically to what is stated.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 2


----------



## vapeandacrepe

Clouds4Days said:


> Yeah you can use them brother.
> Just take note after you use them and you stick them back in the charger that they both draining equally within +/- 0.1v .
> If they are not equal you will be straining one battery more then the other.


Sorry, how do I see that they draining equally? I have a Nitecore i4 charger. I've noticed with my current set of dodgy old batteries when I charge them, the one sometimes has a 1/4 or 1/3 of a charge left and the other is flat, but can only see this with the light indicators, no display or anything.

Reactions: Like 1


----------

