# The most frustrating problem in the world



## Junior (10/2/17)

Hi vets!

I am seriously stuck with this one... my juice becomes harsh after a few drags... literally 2 drags fine, then it becomes harsh, and I have no idea what could cause this.

I'll give you all the info:
I'm using an Ijoy combo RDTA, 24g kanthal 7wraps, 3mm diameter.
I mix my own DIY juice(all standard and well known recipes)
I vape less than 2mg nic, because I vape a lot hahaha.

I have been mixing for a couple of months, getting the hang of it and I had no issues. I mixed rhodenite(enyawreklaw) when I noticed it. I gave my friend a 30 ml(without nic) and his was fine. So i thought its my nic, but it is like 4 months old and I store it in my drawer so that can't be it.
Then I made some Beard no.5 clone(literally just strawberry and ny cheesecake, beautiful simple flavour) and I had no issues with that juice, none, so its not the nic then. So that made me think it was my bottle because the Rhodenite was in a plastic bottle and the Beard no.5 was in a glass bottle. 
Here comes the kicker, I mixed bronuts(enyawreklaw), in a glass bottle, get the same issue. So I thought its my build maybe. Then I gave a bit to my friend, he filled up his limitless rdta, and got the same problem. 
The juice taste so good! And I really don't understand why this is happening. 
I hope someone can help me please, thank you in advance.


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## Feliks Karp (10/2/17)

Maybe you are just vaping too much in a short amount of time and irritating your throat/sinuses. If you are cleaning your gear and the bottles are sterile, and you seem to have eliminated the type of bottled mixed in, and your friend isn't experiencing the same effects, I'd think you are just vaping too much.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## stevie g (10/2/17)

to my mind it can only be that your wick is drying out a bit too much, try thinning the cotton that goes into the juice chamber so there is space for the eliquid to easily travel towards the coil.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Junior (10/2/17)

Feliks Karp said:


> Maybe you are just vaping too much in a short amount of time and irritating your throat/sinuses. If you are cleaning your gear and the bottles are sterile, and you seem to have eliminated the type of bottled mixed in, and your friend isn't experiencing the same effects, I'd think you are just vaping too much.


Vaping too much? Never heard of that, I'll google it. 
Haha thank you I will check that out. And I don't 'sterilize' my bottles, rinse with warm water and dry with toilet paper that's it, could that cause issues?
Thanx for the advice.


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## Junior (10/2/17)

Sprint said:


> to my mind it can only be that your wick is drying out a bit too much, try thinning the cotton that goes into the juice chamber so there is space for the eliquid to easily travel towards the coil.


I thought of that too, shortened my wicks so it just touches the juice holes and i make sure I keep them moist.
Maybe I should drip directly a bit and see. Or better yet I'll coil my Troll V2 tonight, that should eliminate the hardware completely.


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## Feliks Karp (10/2/17)

Junior said:


> Vaping too much? Never heard of that, I'll google it.
> Haha thank you I will check that out. And I don't 'sterilize' my bottles, rinse with warm water and dry with toilet paper that's it, could that cause issues?
> Thanx for the advice.



Well depending on how hot you are vaping, yes, you could be irritating your sinuses/etc. Try what @Sprint suggested or as you said try a different atty and see if the problem persists.

If your bottles are dirty, yes, something in there could be irritating your body, ask around the DIY section on preferred methods of cleaning. Maybe @RichJB can offer some insight?


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## Junior (10/2/17)

Feliks Karp said:


> Well depending on how hot you are vaping, yes, you could be irritating your sinuses/etc. Try what @Sprint suggested or as you said try a different atty and see if the problem persists.
> 
> If your bottles are dirty, yes, something in there could be irritating your body, ask around the DIY section on preferred methods of cleaning. Maybe @RichJB can offer some insight?


I love a hot vape, never knew that is a bad thing... thank you for that.


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## Feliks Karp (10/2/17)

Junior said:


> I love a hot vape, never knew that is a bad thing... thank you for that.



Our bodies all have different tolerances for stuff, not that it's bad per say, but chain vaping hot can cause irritation.

Reactions: Useful 1


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## RichJB (10/2/17)

It could be your nic. That it's four months old and kept in your drawer is not a guarantee that it's fine.

It might be some concentrates which are causing it. Bronuts contains the infamous Cap Choc Glazed Doughnut which many people find harsh. Rhodonite contains no known problem concentrates although some don't react well to Inw Raspberry. FW Yellow Cake is common to both Bronuts and Rhodonite so it could be that too.

I would mix up some unflavoured base with nic, just 10ml should be enough. If that is harsh, it's obviously not your concentrates and is something in either the nic, VG, PG or hardware.

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## stevie g (10/2/17)

RichJB said:


> It could be your nic. That it's four months old and kept in your drawer is not a guarantee that it's fine.
> 
> It might be some concentrates which are causing it. Bronuts contains the infamous Cap Choc Glazed Doughnut which many people find harsh. Rhodonite contains no known problem concentrates although some don't react well to Inw Raspberry. FW Yellow Cake is common to both Bronuts and Rhodonite so it could be that too.
> 
> I would mix up some unflavoured base with nic, just 10ml should be enough. If that is harsh, it's obviously not your concentrates and is something in either the nic, VG, PG or hardware.


I've had old nic lying around for a year that treated exactly the same as the first day I bought it.

Though some nic can be low quality and would go badly quickly.


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## stevie g (10/2/17)

Junior said:


> I thought of that too, shortened my wicks so it just touches the juice holes and i make sure I keep them moist.
> Maybe I should drip directly a bit and see. Or better yet I'll coil my Troll V2 tonight, that should eliminate the hardware completely.


I mean lengthwise not crosswise. Trim down the length of the Wick that passes the wicking holes to create a looser fit.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Junior (10/2/17)

RichJB said:


> It could be your nic. That it's four months old and kept in your drawer is not a guarantee that it's fine.
> 
> It might be some concentrates which are causing it. Bronuts contains the infamous Cap Choc Glazed Doughnut which many people find harsh. Rhodonite contains no known problem concentrates although some don't react well to Inw Raspberry. FW Yellow Cake is common to both Bronuts and Rhodonite so it could be that too.
> 
> I would mix up some unflavoured base with nic, just 10ml should be enough. If that is harsh, it's obviously not your concentrates and is something in either the nic, VG, PG or hardware.


Thank you RichJB! I will try the nic out quick and see if its that. Then I will eliminate all possibilities systematically.


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## Kalashnikov (10/2/17)

Maybe try throw in TFA smooth to calm down those harsh notes. Also increase your vg higher as it might be due to harsh concentrates and pg.


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## Junior (10/2/17)

Kalashnikov said:


> Maybe try throw in TFA smooth to calm down those harsh notes. Also increase your vg higher as it might be due to harsh concentrates and pg.


I vape max vg. Smooth might help... I'll try it thank you.


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## PsyCLown (10/2/17)

Junior said:


> I vape max vg. Smooth might help... I'll try it thank you.


Did you try the juice in your friends build?

Max VG makes me think perhaps the high wattage and thick juice leads to insufficient wicking?
Burnt cotton is very harsh.

Pitty you're all the way in Cape Town, bit far to meet up

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Junior (10/2/17)

PsyCLown said:


> Did you try the juice in your friends build?
> 
> Max VG makes me think perhaps the high wattage and thick juice leads to insufficient wicking?
> Burnt cotton is very harsh.
> ...



That is a very good point you are making... because my other juices are about 15% total concentrate, which makes it an 85/15 VG/PG mix, But rhodenite and bronuts are 10% total I think. So the VG might be too high. Thank you.


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## Polar (10/2/17)

Is your coil heating evenly? Loose leads has caused the same issue for me.

Is your nicotine VG or PG based?


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## Polar (10/2/17)

Junior said:


> That is a very good point you are making... because my other juices are about 15% total concentrate, which makes it an 85/15 VG/PG mix, But rhodenite and bronuts are 10% total I think. So the VG might be too high. Thank you.


You can dilute further with distilled water.


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## Junior (10/2/17)

Polar said:


> Is your coil heating evenly? Loose leads has caused the same issue for me.
> 
> Is your nicotine VG or PG based?


My leads are fine. My nic is PG based


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## PsyCLown (10/2/17)

Polar said:


> You can dilute further with distilled water.


That is a good point, the build i had in my Goon the other day was glowing perfectly and then after vaping it for a few minutes I noticed it started to taste weird and that there had become a hot spot somehow on the coil.

Had to remove the wick and fix it, not sure what caused the hot spot to appear as it was vaping perfectly after wicking for quite a while.
So something to double check - however a different build will help eliminate that problem. Otherwise a simple spaced nichrome / kanthal build is a great way to test as well.

To get the spacing, make a compact coil, stretch it out, then compress it again by hand and it should leave you with perfectly spaced coils.


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## DougP (10/2/17)

@Junior 
On the rdta (especially ijoy combo) you want to push the coils as low down as possible literally 1 mm off the base. With these rdta's the higher the coil the harsher the Vape 
The coil must line up with the airflow hole so the air flow hits the coil in the middle. 
Give this a bash you will be pleasantly surprised 
See pics below and you see just how low the airflow hole is 
In third pic you can clearly see coil at airflow level

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## Polar (10/2/17)

PsyCLown said:


> That is a good point, the build i had in my Goon the other day was glowing perfectly and then after vaping it for a few minutes I noticed it started to taste weird and that there had become a hot spot somehow on the coil.
> 
> Had to remove the wick and fix it, not sure what caused the hot spot to appear as it was vaping perfectly after wicking for quite a while.
> So something to double check - however a different build will help eliminate that problem. Otherwise a simple spaced nichrome / kanthal build is a great way to test as well.
> ...


We're in luck, one of my squad exhibiting this exact issue. 






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## DougP (10/2/17)

And best wicking I found is to cut wicks approx half way down glass

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## Junior (10/2/17)

Blends Of Distinction said:


> @Junior
> On the rdta (especially ijoy combo) you want to push the coils as low down as possible literally 1 mm off the base. With these rdta's the higher the coil the harsher the Vape
> The coil must line up with the airflow hole so the air flow hits the coil in the middle.
> Give this a bash you will be pleasantly surprised
> ...


I'll push it even lower then thanks. My leads are not that long however, it goes like 2mm into the holes and that's it. I have no wicking issues. I'm going to do a new build tonight and let you know what I find. How tight do you wick it though?


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## DougP (10/2/17)

Dam hard to explain that one 
Don't twist cotton tight make a soft role and then gently pull through 
As you pull u should feel a little resistance but not to much and not to loose

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## Silver (10/2/17)

@Blends Of Distinction - you have a great way of explaining these things with pictures and all
Thanks!

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## DougP (13/2/17)

@Junior 
Hi there did u manage to resolve the harshness

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## Dolfie (13/2/17)

Junior said:


> Hi vets!
> 
> I am seriously stuck with this one... my juice becomes harsh after a few drags... literally 2 drags fine, then it becomes harsh, and I have no idea what could cause this.
> 
> ...


I am in the same boat as you it started about 2 weeks ago was coiling and wicking every single day. 1 problem I solved it was my wicking was putting in too much cotton. My problem juice was the Strawberry cheesecake in beginning it was fine but now I also get that harsh taste. Other problem maybe is the mixing I want to take my scale in for a calibration maybe there lies the problem.


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## Junior (14/2/17)

Blends Of Distinction said:


> @Junior
> Hi there did u manage to resolve the harshness


Hi blends,
I'm getting there. Was waiting for juices to steep. I vaped 50ml of berry yoghurt over the weekend and had no issue, so its definitely not my nic. 
I spoke to someone at vape cartel and he said i must try steeping with nic, i usually and nic like the night before, i did that with the rhodonite and it might just be my imagination but it seems better, will know in a day or so.
The other thing that im suspecting now is the yelliw cake that @RichJB highlighted, its the only common flavour in both recipes. I read up on it and it seems to be a ***** of a flavour. Will do further investigation and keep you informed. 
Yellow cake contains something that messes with coils, so it might all be that my coils gets messed up and cause the issue, any thoughts on that? 
Can anyone recommend a sub for yellow cake? Haha I'm considering just leaving it out completely but thats just stupid. 

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## kev mac (14/2/17)

Junior said:


> Hi vets!
> 
> I am seriously stuck with this one... my juice becomes harsh after a few drags... literally 2 drags fine, then it becomes harsh, and I have no idea what could cause this.
> 
> ...


Do you refrigerate your nic? I find that keeps it very well.


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## Polar (14/2/17)

Junior said:


> steeping with nic, i usually and nic like the night before



Not sure if I understand. Do you mix your VG and concentrates and then let them steep and after add your nic? Is there a specific reason for this?

This might cause hot spots in your mixes.


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## Junior (15/2/17)

kev mac said:


> Do you refrigerate your nic? I find that keeps it very well.


No I do not? Should I?


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## Junior (15/2/17)

Polar said:


> Not sure if I understand. Do you mix your VG and concentrates and then let them steep and after add your nic? Is there a specific reason for this?
> 
> This might cause hot spots in your mixes.


Yes, I make the entire batch without nic, and when its ready to vape I pour say 30ml into a bottle and add nic.
The reason for this is that I can then mix it like crazy and give it warm water baths and I dont have to worry about too much air in my bottles when steeping, apparently all those things can degrade your nic. Especially the heat.

Reactions: Creative 1


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## Polar (15/2/17)

Junior said:


> Yes, I make the entire batch without nic, and when its ready to vape I pour say 30ml into a bottle and add nic.
> The reason for this is that I can then mix it like crazy and give it warm water baths and I dont have to worry about too much air in my bottles when steeping, apparently all those things can degrade your nic. Especially the heat.


This is a rather creative idea indeed. If you have 0mg steeped liquid it should be easy to determine if the issue is your nicotine or concentrates.

I think that some flavours also degrade with heat and oxidation. Time has worked best for me. I shake after I mixed and then only shake again when trying it the first time.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Junior (15/2/17)

Polar said:


> This is a rather creative idea indeed. If you have 0mg steeped liquid it should be easy to determine if the issue is your nicotine or concentrates.
> 
> I think that some flavours also degrade with heat and oxidation. Time has worked best for me. I shake after I mixed and then only shake again when trying it the first time.



I have had no issues at all with that method. But I mixed a batch of rhodonite last week and I added nic immediately after. Vaping it now and the taste is good, gave the juice no heat at all. I'm still getting a bit of harshness but it is manageable, I think I'm going sub the yellow cake with something else in my next batch, I have no idea what though. 
I really think it's the yellow cake. Does anyone else have problems with yellow cake?


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## Dolfie (15/2/17)

Junior said:


> I have had no issues at all with that method. But I mixed a batch of rhodonite last week and I added nic immediately after. Vaping it now and the taste is good, gave the juice no heat at all. I'm still getting a bit of harshness but it is manageable, I think I'm going sub the yellow cake with something else in my next batch, I have no idea what though.
> I really think it's the yellow cake. Does anyone else have problems with yellow cake?


I open this morning new bottle of steep juice and same issue hell off a throaght hit. So I re wick took my time and made sure its perfect drop the wattage and now its perfect. In my situation it was not the nicotine.

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## Polar (15/2/17)

http://e-liquid-recipes.com/flavor/7310

Seems many aren't fond of the Yellow Cake by Flavour West.

Contains sugar which can caramelise and do all nasty kinds of things on your coils.

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## Junior (15/2/17)

Polar said:


> http://e-liquid-recipes.com/flavor/7310
> 
> Seems many aren't fond of the Yellow Cake by Flavour West.
> 
> Contains sugar which can caramelise and do all nasty kinds of things on your coils.



Im going to use an alternative for my next batch, just dont know what. And ja my coils are suffering with the Rhodonite and Bronuts. So can I conclude that its the Yellow Cake?


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## Polar (15/2/17)

Junior said:


> Im going to use an alternative for my next batch, just dont know what. And ja my coils are suffering with the Rhodonite and Bronuts. So can I conclude that its the Yellow Cake?


You could try sub with Cap Sugar Cookie @3-5% and FA Joy @ 0.5%. Sugar Cookie is a bit more biscuiti but a worth a shot.


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## Junior (15/2/17)

Polar said:


> You could try sub with Cap Sugar Cookie @3-5% and FA Joy @ 0.5%. Sugar Cookie is a bit more biscuiti but a worth a shot.



Okay thanx, will do that.


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## Soutie (15/2/17)

Both Jungle Flavors and Capella do a yellow cake now. I have heard they are both rather good and neither have fructose like the FW version does. One of them would probably be the closest sub

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Junior (15/2/17)

Soutie said:


> Both Jungle Flavors and Capella do a yellow cake now. I have heard they are both rather good and neither have fructose like the FW version does. One of them would probably be the closest sub



I will try Capella. Same percentage?


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## Soutie (15/2/17)

Junior said:


> I will try Capella. Same percentage?



I would try it at the same percentage and see what its like. FW yellow cake gets used at quite a low percentage so I don't think it will ovrpower by any means

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## kev mac (17/2/17)

Junior said:


> No I do not? Should I?


From what I've read and seen in tutorials it is said to prolong the freshness of the nic. I have followed this method and it certainly does no harm.


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## Junior (26/2/17)

Just an update for those who care.
I have mixed a batch of Rhodonite without the yellow cake and it was still harsh and i was ready to start vaping pure vg with nic in hahaha. 
Then it hit me that i made the rhodonite with Raspberry (Sweet) (TPA) and not the Raspberry (INAWERA) which is specified in the recipe as i could not find it online and a lot of comments mentioned that it is perfumey.(that does not look like the correct spelling) 
Idiot sandwich that I am decided to up the percentage for some reason to 1.3 instead of 0.5 as the recipe said. 

I dont have inawera raspberry so i just mixed the rhodonite with 0.5 percent raspberry last night, i think this is the issue. 

I tested my nic as well, it is not that. Thanks for everyone's help, will post my conclusion soon. 

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## Dolfie (26/2/17)

Junior said:


> Just an update for those who care.
> I have mixed a batch of Rhodonite without the yellow cake and it was still harsh and i was ready to start vaping pure vg with nic in hahaha.
> Then it hit me that i made the rhodonite with Raspberry (Sweet) (TPA) and not the Raspberry (INAWERA) which is specified in the recipe as i could not find it online and a lot of comments mentioned that it is perfumey.(that does not look like the correct spelling)
> Idiot sandwich that I am decided to up the percentage for some reason to 1.3 instead of 0.5 as the recipe said.
> ...


What I have found the last 2 weeks is my juice that is filled to the top don't give me that harsh taste. I make all my recipes now 35ml and seems to me less air in bottle helps

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