# Ultem Toxicity - Citadel RDA



## Stoney

Hello peeps
I am sooooo wanting to get the Citadel RDA.
Only concern is the Ultem chamber reducing cap.
Ultem has a high melting point (217C).
Using ultem as chamber caps should be fine - the distance from coil to chamber is not to close.
However, my concern with the Citadel is that the chamber reducing cap is made of Ultem and the
distance from coil to material is much closer.
Would this not be a danger? - might not melt the Ultem (217C) but might reach the threshold where it's going to start offgassing.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Puff the Magic Dragon

I doubt that it will be a problem.

I haven't seen any internet forum or reviewer raising the possible issue.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Puff the Magic Dragon

Take a look at the Material Safety Data Sheet for Ultem

https://www.pennfibre.com/downloads/msds/Ensinger Ultem 1000 MSDS.pdf

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 2


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## Silver

Puff the Magic Dragon said:


> Take a look at the Material Safety Data Sheet for Ultem
> 
> https://www.pennfibre.com/downloads/msds/Ensinger Ultem 1000 MSDS.pdf



Informative indeed, thanks @Puff the Magic Dragon
I see the flash ignition point of ultem is 521 degrees C
Thats quite high and a lot higher than the 217C @Stoney mentioned

I also doubt a company like Psyclone Mods who makes this would knowingly make it dangerous if they thought it was a potential risk

Nevertheless, its always better to be concerned and check it out than ignore it.

@Rob Fisher , maybe you can ask the guys from Psyclone Mods when you get a chance?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Rob Fisher

Silver said:


> Informative indeed, thanks @Puff the Magic Dragon
> I see the flash ignition point of ultem is 521 degrees C
> Thats quite high and a lot higher than the 217C @Stoney mentioned
> 
> I also doubt a company like Psyclone Mods who makes this would knowingly make it dangerous if they thought it was a potential risk
> 
> Nevertheless, its always better to be concerned and check it out than ignore it.
> 
> @Rob Fisher , maybe you can ask the guys from Psyclone Mods when you get a chance?



Roger that Hi Ho @Silver will chat to Mac!

Reactions: Like 2


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## lesvaches

this is a ultem drip tip @65W, i’m having second thoughts about the citadel myself, but then, it is Vandy from china so i guess it could be ultem colored plastic.


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## Rob Fisher

Just a quick answer from Mac Carlson the modder himself.

"There are several factors at play to give a straight answer such as coil height, power/wattage provided to said coil, ohm of said coil. The Ultem Reducer isn’t any closer to the coil then an Ultem DT would be on most single coil atomizers. So, in that regards it’s really no different than a DT and the potential of off gassing. But like I said there are a lot of factors at play that would determine certain outcomes."

Reactions: Like 2 | Thanks 1


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## Puff the Magic Dragon

IMO if a company doesn't give a definitive answer they either don't know, or don't want to reveal what they know.

In a normal atty the drip tip would have the ultem positioned in a vertical position wrt the coil. In the citadel the ultem is in a horizontal position wrt the coil (presenting a far larger surface area to the coil).

This is just an observation and is not based on technical knowledge or relevant experience. 

The company states that there are several factors at play such as coil height, power/wattage provided to said coil, ohm of said coil. One would assume that all these factors had been tested to their limit wrt heating the ultem. We all know that a small percentage of vapers push the limits from time to time. Surely it would have been tested at the lowest resistance , highest watts, and closest to the ultem as possible ?

It would be nice to be given an assurance from either SABIC or Psyclone Mods.

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## Puff the Magic Dragon

The new Jenna RDA by Ravens Moon uses ultem in a similar way.

One would assume (hope) that at least one of the companies involved will have done the necessary research regarding heating the ultem.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Huffapuff

I had my ultem wasp rda on my luxotic in my bag one day and it wasn't locked. The button got pushed in by the Reo next to it and so fired for I don't know how long. Well, long enough to basically turn the coil to dust before I realized what was going on!

The ultem cap had slight burning/melting on the inside. 

So I think you'd have to take insanely long hits, beyond what is humanly possible, before the ultem reducer would be affected enough to cause any off gasing.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Stoney

Thanks guys for the discussion.
@Silver the flaspoint is 512, but read another place where melting point is 217.

At melting point or before, you will start getting fumes and that is my concern.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Silver

Thanks for the headsup @Stoney

I wasnt aware of the melting point being much lower.
217 deg C is not that hot, I wonder if devices like the Citadel expose the Ultem part to that kind of heat.

Reactions: Like 1


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## jm10

Puff the Magic Dragon said:


> IMO if a company doesn't give a definitive answer they either don't know, or don't want to reveal what they know.
> 
> In a normal atty the drip tip would have the ultem positioned in a vertical position wrt the coil. In the citadel the ultem is in a horizontal position wrt the coil (presenting a far larger surface area to the coil).
> 
> This is just an observation and is not based on technical knowledge or relevant experience.
> 
> The company states that there are several factors at play such as coil height, power/wattage provided to said coil, ohm of said coil. One would assume that all these factors had been tested to their limit wrt heating the ultem. We all know that a small percentage of vapers push the limits from time to time. Surely it would have been tested at the lowest resistance , highest watts, and closest to the ultem as possible ?
> 
> It would be nice to be given an assurance from either SABIC or Psyclone Mods.



Agreed, sounded generic and scares me that a modder would avoid the answer like that. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Puff the Magic Dragon

jm10 said:


> Agreed, sounded generic and scares me that a modder would avoid the answer like that.
> 
> 
> I agree, but in the end it will probably be found to be safe. I have no interest in high-end products anyway so I am not too worried about it.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Stoney

Saw the review of the Jenna RDA - also using similar chamber reducer.
Looks like this is a new thing. I pray someone will do formal testing on this and release results, for the safety of all.

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## BioHAZarD

I seriously doubt any worthwhile testing was performed.

Reactions: Agree 1


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