# Recommended MTL RTA coil builds (No Nickel)



## takatatak (17/10/19)

Hey guys and gals,
I'm hoping someone can advise me regarding MTL coils.

My mom has a nickel allergy and as such, we've been avoiding Ni80 and the likes. So far we've just used Kanthal round wire and 26G SS316 + 36G KA1 claptons.

I've also got Ni80 aliens in some other atties we use from time to time. My mom however only uses them to taste something on the odd occasion.

I recently picked up a VV BSKR 1.5 MTL RTA and I haven't even built on it yet because I'm not sure what to try.

I've read reviews on the atty and it seems to operate best in the 10-20 watt range which is obviously a bit limiting.

My dilemma comes in with trying to find a good coil build that doesn't use Ni80, operates best in the 10-20W range, doesn't overwork a single battery and that doesn't have excessive heat flux...

Can someone with a bit more experience in this field please advise me as to whether or not I'm hunting unicorns? 

Does anyone make nice MTL claptons or aliens with SS+KA1 or similar?


----------



## Chickenstrip (17/10/19)

takatatak said:


> Hey guys and gals,
> I'm hoping someone can advise me regarding MTL coils.
> 
> My mom has a nickel allergy and as such, we've been avoiding Ni80 and the likes. So far we've just used Kanthal round wire and 26G SS316 + 36G KA1 claptons.
> ...



I use 26 guage stainless round wire in my build at 16W it's great.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## takatatak (17/10/19)

Chickenstrip said:


> I used 26 guage stainless round wire in my build. I build at 16W it's great.


Hey @Chickenstrip, thanks for your input... What brand of wire are you using? What ID and how many wraps? Which atty are you using?


----------



## CaliGuy (17/10/19)

@takatatak you should look into downloading this App, very useful for work out coil builds based on wire spec, material type, coil ID, number wraps etc. 

The free version does allow you to create coil builds which you can save and also feature some of the common exotic coil setups. The paid for version adds the more advanced builds like Alien and Framed Staple.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


----------



## takatatak (17/10/19)

CaliGuy said:


> @takatatak you should look into downloading this App, very useful for work out coil builds based on wire spec, material type, coil ID, number wraps etc.
> 
> The free version does allow you to create coil builds which you can save and also feature some of the common exotic coil setups. The paid for version adds the more advanced builds like Alien and Framed Staple.
> 
> View attachment 180559


Hey @CaliGuy, thanks for your advice... I do actually already have Vape Tool Pro which offers the same features. I can't really find a good exotic build that has a high resistance. Then moreover, trying to find good quality white that matches the desired criteria becomes even more daunting... If only nickel allergy didn't exist I'd be well on my way to MTL victory...

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Jean claude Vaaldamme (17/10/19)

Just a question. If someone that is allergic to nickel can have a reaction due to vaping. Does that then mean all the big pharma propaganda is true and we do inhale metals?


----------



## CaliGuy (17/10/19)

@takatatak from my own personal experimenting with exotic SS and Kanthal wire and coils I can vouch for the fact that our local vape stores don’t really keep many option especially for MTL use.

Have you tried the Vandy Vape Superfine MTL Fused Clapton SS316L? Pretty decent wire and flavorful vape if you don’t dry burn the coil. With SS I find it best to do a spaced coil and try avoid dry burning.

https://www.noonclouds.co.za/collec...s/vandy-vape-superfine-mtl-fused-clapton-wire




Outside of this option you could always look at importing some Coiliogy MTL wire from FastTech in China. The have a huge selection, something like this Framed Staple MTL wire in SS316 would work very well with great flavor.




On the topic of the actual coil resistance needed for MTL. You don’t always need a high resistance coil to vape MTL like 0.80 and above. I have KayFun’s for my MTL vaping and use a Geekvape Ni80 Tri-Core Fused Clapton 30ga*3/38ga (2.5mm 4x Wraps 0.36ohm) that I vape at 16w and it’s perfect.

This Geekvape wire ramps up nice and fast and I get a perfect MTL vape from it. So don’t let coil resistance become to complicated, if a lower resistance coil heats up quick enough at MTL wattages 8w - 22w then it’s good to go.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Thanks 1


----------



## Chickenstrip (17/10/19)

CaliGuy said:


> @takatatak from my own personal experimenting with exotic SS and Kanthal wire and coils I can vouch for the fact that our local vape stores don’t really keep many option especially for MTL use.
> 
> Have you tried the Vandy Vape Superfine MTL Fused Clapton SS316L? Pretty decent wire and flavorful vape if you don’t dry burn the coil. With SS I find it best to do a spaced coil and try avoid dry burning.
> 
> ...



I second this. I wrap between 2.5 and 3mm and my wraps range from 7-14. I premake my coils months in advance and usually make a variety of shapes and sizes. I then pull out which ever I'm feeling like using or which ever falls out the box first.

I use a billet box with a kanger RBA and I also use the berserker mini.

The wire I use is called gasphase and I bought it at foggas.

But really agree with what was said above... For me, I only build high so my battery lasts longer. It really doesn't have much of an influence on the way the device vapes. In my experience anyway. So yeah, my coils usually come out between 0.7 and 1.3 but the vape from the device is identical. It's just the battery that runs down a bit quicker with the lower builds.

I didn't enjoy the vandy vape super fine because I use a screwdriver to wrap my coils and they always come out super springy and the coils don't last as long as the roundwire does. Again, just my experience. I'd use the vandy wire if I had it but with MTL a roll of wire takes me years to finish so I usually end up using some of it for DIY projects like tying up chicken wire. I'm still using the first MTL wire roll I ever purchased back in 2017.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Dooky (17/10/19)

I’ll second that!! 2.5 ID 6 wraps ~ 0.5 ohms

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Chickenstrip (17/10/19)

Jean claude Vaaldamme said:


> Just a question. If someone that is allergic to nickel can have a reaction due to vaping. Does that then mean all the big pharma propaganda is true and we do inhale metals?



I believe nichrome does break down after extended use and high heat. I don't know enough to tell you anything for certain. You'll have to go find some credible studies on the subject. I just prefer to stick to SS just incase.

Reactions: Winner 1


----------



## takatatak (17/10/19)

Jean claude Vaaldamme said:


> Just a question. If someone that is allergic to nickel can have a reaction due to vaping. Does that then mean all the big pharma propaganda is true and we do inhale metals?


My mom has actually never experienced a reaction to it but we're rather playing it safe than sorry... If she wears earrings or a bangle with nickel in the metal then she gets a rash and we tested a piece of Ni80 as a impromptu earring which caused inflammation.

Regarding the inhalation of metal nano-particles, this has been studied and does indeed occur increasingly as a coil ages and the metal deteriorates. Considering that it's been researched and documented I wouldn't classify it as propaganda but science. Science has also however proven that there are less known carcinogens in vapour compared to combusted tobacco smoke. Formaldehyde for example is found in levels hundreds to thousands of times higher in cigarette smoke than in e-cigarette vapour.

Whilst we don't know the long term effects of vaping, the vast majority of studies over the history thereof have shown it to be less harmful than smoking combusted tobacco.

I for one don't condone the use of tobacco or ENDS products by minors and would've preferred that they were always exclusively available at licensed retailers and online stores. I also however believe I deserve the right to choose my poison and prefer to knowingly intake nicotine in the form of a potentially carcinogenic flavoured aerosol as opposed to knowingly inhaling carcinogenic smoke.

We naturally inhale fresh air (provided the world isn't a toxic waste ground) so ideally we should stop smoking and stop vaping. Then again, we shouldn't consume sugar or eat meat or use social media or support the corrupt industries of the world and yet here we are.

With jungles burning, oceans being destroyed, civil unrest, Eskom being sued for the respiratory illnesses and related deaths from their coal-fueled power stations, 100 of 121 top Eskom officials refusing to comply with auditing, school pupils killing each other every week etc. I get annoyed when I see politicians and the media complaining about vaping as if it's threatening the wellbeing of society while fat cats count stacks with a cigar in their mouths and a whiskey in hand...

I started smoking stinkies when I was 13 and even though I knew I should, I didn't particularly want to quit smoking. I was highly doubtful that vaping could convert me but lo' and behold, I was an ex-smoker turned vaper within 2 weeks in which I vaped exclusively with the exception of 2 stinkies. Haven't touched a cigarette since...

Reactions: Like 3 | Winner 2 | Funny 1


----------



## takatatak (17/10/19)

Thanks for all the advice folks!!


----------



## Silver (17/10/19)

Hi @takatatak 

I will also vouch for what @CaliGuy described so well

I am using the Vandy Vape superfine MTL wire in my Rose MTL RTA.
Not the SS, it’s the NI80
I do 2mm ID and I can’t remember how many wraps I did but I think it’s 7
Vape it on the single battery old VtC Mini at about 18-20 watts 
It’s very good and I find the coil life is good too

I haven’t tried the SS version but I would assume it will work well

I get your point about exotics and single battery mods but I think it’s okay in this application because the wattage is quite low

I get about a tank of 3ml of juice on my Rose MTL setup with a fairly old LG HG2 choc battery. Lasts me quite a while because it’s MTL

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Resistance (17/10/19)

Vandy vape SS wire.plain or Clapton at 4.5w the juice is about 24mg/ml and the taste is still good.
On MTL RTA I vape at 18w with a 9-12mg juice. Whatever I feel at the time.
You and/or your Mom needs to find your happy place but the wires are excellent.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## takatatak (17/10/19)

Resistance said:


> Vandy vape SS wire.plain or Clapton at 4.5w the juice is about 24mg/ml and the taste is still good.
> On MTL RTA I vape at 18w with a 9-12mg juice. Whatever I feel at the time.
> You and/or your Mom needs to find your happy place but the wires are excellent.


4.5w or 4.5V?


----------



## Resistance (17/10/19)

takatatak said:


> 4.5w or 4.5V?


4.5w at +/- 2v.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Resistance (17/10/19)

Flat and round parallel coil also gives a smooth and excellent vape

Reactions: Informative 1


----------



## X-Calibre786 (18/10/19)

Doesn't SS also contain nickel?


----------



## takatatak (18/10/19)

X-Calibre786 said:


> Doesn't SS also contain nickel?


Hey @X-Calibre786 - Yeah, you're actually right... I've checked this before and should've remembered. This Wikipedia article on Surgical Stainless Steel states that SS316L contains between 10-12% nickel. It is one of the more common stainless steels used for medical equipment and implants etc. but there are nickel free alternatives which address the concern of allergies and immune system reactions. SS430 is nickel-free but it's not particularly easy to source and what you can find is usually available in a very limited range.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## CashKat88 (18/10/19)

takatatak said:


> Hey @CaliGuy, thanks for your advice... I do actually already have Vape Tool Pro which offers the same features. I can't really find a good exotic build that has a high resistance. Then moreover, trying to find good quality white that matches the desired criteria becomes even more daunting... If only nickel allergy didn't exist I'd be well on my way to MTL victory...



Personally i am very allergic to Nickel, i can't even wear a belt with my pants unless i coat the buckle with clear nail polish or i get a rash on the bottom of my stomach but i literally use Ni80 wire in my RDA's, RTA's and MTL Setups(Sometimes Kathal but 95% Ni80) and i have no issues inhaling it

Reactions: Winner 1 | Informative 1


----------



## takatatak (18/10/19)

CashKat88 said:


> Personally i am very allergic to Nickel, i can't even wear a belt with my pants unless i coat it the buckle with clear nail polish or i get a rash on the bottom of my stomach but i literally use Ni80 wire in my RDA's, RTA's and MTL Setups(Sometimes Kathal but 95% Ni80) and i have no issues inhaling it


Hey man, thanks for your input... How long have you been vaping? Is it possible that you haven't experienced any issues _yet_? I obviously hope you never have any problems but I'm just curious if it's been weeks, months or years...

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## ddk1979 (18/10/19)

Here's a complete list of Vandy Vape MTL wires





.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Chickenstrip (18/10/19)

CashKat88 said:


> Personally i am very allergic to Nickel, i can't even wear a belt with my pants unless i coat the buckle with clear nail polish or i get a rash on the bottom of my stomach but i literally use Ni80 wire in my RDA's, RTA's and MTL Setups(Sometimes Kathal but 95% Ni80) and i have no issues inhaling it



Does that mean you can't touch coins?

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## CashKat88 (18/10/19)

Chickenstrip said:


> Does that mean you can't touch coins?
> 
> View attachment 180599



That would be funny, i can touch them and use them but i cant have it on my skin for prolonged periods, like my belt buckle touches the bottom of my stomach every time i sit for long periods and it causes irritations to form.... But one would think I am allergic to money the way i give it away for new vape gear

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


----------



## Resistance (18/10/19)

takatatak said:


> Hey @X-Calibre786 - Yeah, you're actually right... I've checked this before and should've remembered. This Wikipedia article on Surgical Stainless Steel states that SS316L contains between 10-12% nickel. It is one of the more common stainless steels used for medical equipment and implants etc. but there are nickel free alternatives which address the concern of allergies and immune system reactions. SS430 is nickel-free but it's not particularly easy to source and what you can find is usually available in a very limited range.


316 is fine for vaping for sensitivity.im using it for long,more than a year probably almost 2years


----------



## Chickenstrip (18/10/19)

CashKat88 said:


> That would be funny, i can touch them and use them but i cant have it on my skin for prolonged periods, like my belt buckle touches the bottom of my stomach every time i sit for long periods and it causes irritations to form.... But one would think I am allergic to money the way i give it away for new vape gear



If ever you're itching to hand over some money hit me up

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


----------



## RenaldoRheeder (19/10/19)

CashKat88 said:


> Personally i am very allergic to Nickel, i can't even wear a belt with my pants unless i coat the buckle with clear nail polish or i get a rash on the bottom of my stomach but i literally use Ni80 wire in my RDA's, RTA's and MTL Setups(Sometimes Kathal but 95% Ni80) and i have no issues inhaling it



I had the same reaction with belt buckles and watch straps, but outgrew it at some stage 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## CashKat88 (19/10/19)

RenaldoRheeder said:


> I had the same reaction with belt buckles and watch straps, but outgrew it at some stage
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Mine was the other way around, I was never allergic to Nickel my whole life till about 4 years ago but I read up about it and it can literally just develop, so hopefully I will also outgrow it too 

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

Reactions: Funny 1


----------

