# PG VG Ratio



## GlacieredPyro (2/12/15)

Hey Mixologists.

The short:
Given VG/PG 70/30 || 60/40
Which makes for the better flavor companions?

The long:
I have been working on some recipes and have about 4 tasty originals and 2 new clones.

All the recipes have been using 30/70 which works a charm in my tanks.
But from countless hours of research the same thing comes up. PG carries flavor better.
I'd love to know if in your experience this holds. Would making the switch give more flavor.

Now I know I could go mix a batch, wait for it to steep for ages. But the evidence would be so marginal and anecdotal that I need a larger pool of opinions. Each rewick and tank has different slight nuances which I cannot account for.

I know that the local guys have a hell of a lot of sense with this stuff because, well amazing local ejuice.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Clouder (2/12/15)

@GlacieredPyro I've had 50/50 Ratio juice, and it had some of the best flavour I've ever had.... but regarding juices I'm a complete novice!


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## shaunnadan (2/12/15)

the short:
pg is a better carrier of flavour than vg. BUT !!! thats not the only thing that matters

the long :
70/30 is not a bad ratio to be working with. especially if your already getting good flavour in a tank. usually juices are mixed slightly higher PG for tanks and for the entry level devices that would typically struggle to wick a high VG juice.

i have made some VG only juices that "shake and vape" were perfect. others needed a bit more persuasion (heat, ultra sonic, SHAKE THAT MOFO UP!!!) and some that flat out didnt like to be VG only.

Reactions: Informative 2


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## Oupa (2/12/15)

Tried and tested... more PG makes for better flavour - Fact!

Higher PG means less clouds though and a bit harsher. Some like that and some don't. It is all about testing and personal preference I'm afraid. Make a small batch of different ratios and try them side by side on the same setup.

Reactions: Thanks 1 | Informative 1


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## Cespian (2/12/15)

Hey Bro

So, I've been DIY'ing for a while now, and I've tried every combination from 50/50 to 20/80 in 5% intervals.

What I've found is heck load of inconsistencies, and the only constants are; The fluidity of the liquid is greater with higher PG juices (considerable difference between 40/60 and 30/70) and the more PG I used, the quicker the liquid vapourised.
WRT to PG carrying flavours better, I can only say that in my experience, this was only true for certain concentrates; eg:

Custards and creams had a considerabley bolder taste in higher PG mixes.
Fruits became dull at 20/80, but I noticed no difference between 30/70 and 40/60 (tested with the likes of dragon fruit, apple, peach and more).
Menthol and Koolada tasted the same regardless to what my base liquids were (I think this might just be because I am sensitive to Minty/Mentholy flavours).

I have a suspicion that the bolder taste could also be related to the juice vapourising quicker on higher PG mixes.

Like I mentioned, this is just my experience and opinions. I suggest you try different flavour types at different %'s. I found that 35/65 works best for me in my Kanger Mini and 30/70 in the Atty.

Reactions: Like 1 | Thanks 1


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## shaunnadan (2/12/15)

Oupa said:


> Tried and tested... more PG makes for better flavour - Fact!
> 
> Higher PG means less clouds though and a bit harsher. Some like that and some don't. It is all about testing and personal preference I'm afraid. Make a small batch of different ratios and try them side by side on the same setup.



i agree 100%

i would rather have a juice at 60/40 with better flavour than an muted 90/10VG cloud sauce

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Thanks 1


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## GlacieredPyro (2/12/15)

Oupa said:


> Tried and tested... more PG makes for better flavour - Fact!
> 
> Higher PG means less clouds though and a bit harsher. Some like that and some don't. It is all about testing and personal preference I'm afraid. Make a small batch of different ratios and try them side by side on the same setup.



Would a pre-steep taste test work?
Or does this affect the post steep flavor more?

Edit: Bliksem you okes are fast.
So much love for this forum

Reactions: Like 2


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## shaunnadan (2/12/15)

shaunnadan said:


> i agree 100%
> 
> i would rather have a juice at 60/40 with better flavour than an muted 90/10VG cloud sauce



AND JUST INCASE ANY SCAVENGERS ARE READING THIS... I CALL DIBS ON A JUICE CALLED " CLOUD SAUCE "

Reactions: Funny 2


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## shaunnadan (2/12/15)

GlacieredPyro said:


> Would a pre-steep taste test work?
> Or does this affect the post steep flavor more?



shake and vape tests are a good indication. but time steeping is and always will be the best.

i made some caramels and custards and it all tasted bland. checked the packet in the cupboard and forgot about it for months !! found it again after at least 6 months and it was full of flavour


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## GlacieredPyro (2/12/15)

shaunnadan said:


> AND JUST INCASE ANY SCAVENGERS ARE READING THIS... I CALL DIBS ON A JUICE CALLED " CLOUD SAUCE "



We shall talk royalties 
Will send you a sample of the unnamed masterpiece once the PG Vg debacle is sorted.


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## shaunnadan (2/12/15)

hahaha


GlacieredPyro said:


> We shall talk royalties
> Will send you a sample of the unnamed masterpiece once the PG Vg debacle is sorted.



hahaha


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## Clouder (2/12/15)

I have some 50/50 sous at home, but I seem to go through a tank in like 20 minutes. Can you explain? Is this due to a thirsty tank or does higher PG last shorter? @shaunnadan ???


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## shaunnadan (2/12/15)

Clouder said:


> I have some 50/50 sous at home, but I seem to go through a tank in like 20 minutes. Can you explain? Is this due to a thirsty tank or does higher PG last shorter? @shaunnadan ???



the higher VG juice does take longer to vapourise up. think of a regular milkshake...you can drink that with a straw in 30 seconds and its finished... now get a double thick milkshake... its going to take some time before you finish it. the only ways is to get a bigger straw (bigger build) with less resistance (hey that now explains it self in vaping terms) with more suction (more wattage... couldnt explain this better)


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## Clouder (2/12/15)

Cooool! Thanx @shaunnadan

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk


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## shaunnadan (2/12/15)

Clouder said:


> Cooool! Thanx @shaunnadan
> 
> Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk



so my tank SMOK TFV4 with the RBA base finishes a 80/20 juice (5ml) within about 10min or less.


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## ZK1 (4/1/16)

I find that my own juices are a bit harsh, I have now made a batch that I mixed without any flavors at a 60/40 ratio, and with a 4mg nic. But it's still the same. Tonight I will try a VG only juice and see....


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## Stevape;) (4/1/16)

Im going to order my first batch for DIY tonight. Does it in fact work out cheaper cause with myself and my wife very much chain vaping and buying off the shelf juices are killing me


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## Khan83 (4/1/16)

Stevape;) said:


> Im going to order my first batch for DIY tonight. Does it in fact work out cheaper cause with myself and my wife very much chain vaping and buying off the shelf juices are killing me


For me personally it works out waaaayyyyyy cheaper.

The only time it will be a bit costly is during your trial and error phase . To avoid wasting concentrates just mix up small 5ml batches & once you find your sweet spot then make larger quantities

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1 | Useful 1


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## Andre (4/1/16)

Stevape;) said:


> Im going to order my first batch for DIY tonight. Does it in fact work out cheaper cause with myself and my wife very much chain vaping and buying off the shelf juices are killing me


I would go through the clone recipes, choose some suited to me (and HRH) there and order concentrates accordingly.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


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## Ernest (4/1/16)

ZK1 said:


> I find that my own juices are a bit harsh, I have now made a batch that I mixed without any flavors at a 60/40 ratio, and with a 4mg nic. But it's still the same. Tonight I will try a VG only juice and see....


What Nic did you use? PG, VG, %?


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## Stevape;) (4/1/16)

I love Beards New York Cheesecake. Found Cheese cake going to add a bit of ripe Strawberry. Will see what I can add to that. Then I should be in heaven. Sorry for the hi jack


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## Khan83 (4/1/16)

Andre said:


> I would go through the clone recipes, choose some suited to me (and HRH) there and order concentrates accordingly.


Totally agree @Andre . Once ordered a batch of concentrates & afterwards came across a delicious sounding clone recipe......only to discover I didn't even have half the flavours that were required. I now read up on recipes then order my flavours according to that

Reactions: Like 1


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## ZK1 (4/1/16)

Ernest said:


> What Nic did you use? PG, VG, %?



It's a 100% VG at 36mg.

I use a little calculator app, to get the right mix. So the mix was as follow:

60 VG
40 PG
4 MG Nic on 30 ml

So it's the following:

3.33 ml Nic to get the 4MG out of the 36Mg
14.67 ml VG
12 ml PG


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## Khan83 (4/1/16)

ZK1 said:


> It's a 100% VG at 36mg.
> 
> I use a little calculator app, to get the right mix. So the mix was as follow:
> 
> ...


Maybe try a 0mg mix. I've always felt the harshness coming through on higher nic juices , never on high pg juices


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## ZK1 (4/1/16)

The thing is, I can vape Voodoo Juice's Sub Zero at 6mg on 30w without problems, but my own juices suck and is harsh


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## Ernest (4/1/16)

ZK1 said:


> It's a 100% VG at 36mg


I got a similar experience the first time using Vg nic. After shaking the Nic bottle vigorously it went away and my mixes were smooth. I usually mix 70:30 Vg-Pg so am now going to try Pg Nic, because the Vg nic is very thick and needs to be shaken very well.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## Khan83 (4/1/16)

ZK1 said:


> The thing is, I can vape Voodoo Juice's Sub Zero at 6mg on 30w without problems, but my own juices suck and is harsh


How soon are you vaping your own juices? Maybe let it steep for a week then try again. I steep mine for a week but the first day it's with the cap off then rest of the week closed. I find it helps to mellow out the flavours a bit.

Maybe try ordering your DIY stuff from another supplier.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## ZK1 (4/1/16)

That might be the problem, I shake the bottle, but maybe not enough, and I don't really let them steep, so that might be problem no 2.

Will try that and see what happens.


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## Ernest (4/1/16)

@ZK1 I agree with @Khan83 , I try after first week, but most of my juices still steep for at least 2 to 3 weeks.


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## Khan83 (4/1/16)

Ernest said:


> I got a similar experience the first time using Vg nic. After shaking the Nic bottle vigorously it went away and my mixes were smooth. I usually mix 70:30 Vg-Pg so am now going to try Pg Nic, because the Vg nic is very thick and needs to be shaken very well.


I'm actually gona be switching to VG nic cos the PG nic is messing up my clouds

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ernest (4/1/16)

Khan83 said:


> I'm actually gona be switching to VG nic cos the PG nic is messing up my clouds


yes, for max Vg you have to, but for 70:30 Pg Nic is fine. Pity we cannot get Nic stronger than 36mg, like 100% pure nic.


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## Khan83 (4/1/16)

Ernest said:


> yes, for max Vg you have to, but for 70:30 Pg Nic is fine. Pity we cannot get Nic stronger than 36mg, like 100% pure nic.


A pity indeed. I've been tempted many times to order the 100% nic from myfreedomsmokes but the thought of it getting held back by Customs puts me off.


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## Ernest (4/1/16)

Khan83 said:


> A pity indeed. I've been tempted many times to order the 100% nic from myfreedomsmokes but the though of it getting held back by Customs puts me off.


I was also wondering if they would let it go through.


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## Khan83 (4/1/16)

Ernest said:


> I was also wondering if they would let it go through.


I suppose its for the best though . We'd probably end up dead or even worse end up ruining a good batch of juice.

Tell me you wouldn't be curious enough to try a puff or three of 100% nic just out of "curiosity"


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## Ernest (4/1/16)

Khan83 said:


> I suppose its for the best though . We'd probably end up dead or even worse end up ruining a good batch of juice.
> 
> Tell me you wouldn't be curious enough to try a puff or three of 100% nic just out of "curiosity"


That'll be suicide. Very dangerous stuff. You will have to wear protective clothing, gloves, mask and protective glasses. Imagine dressing up like that just to mix a quick 5ml juice.


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## Khan83 (4/1/16)

Ernest said:


> That'll be suicide. Very dangerous stuff. You will have to wear protective clothing, gloves, mask and protective glasses. Imagine dressing up like that just to mix a quick 5ml juice.


Mask & glasses ? Good to know as I always assumed skin contact was the only thing to be avoided when working with such a high nic level.

Agreed though , it would take the fun out of DIY'ing. It's already such a chore having to get the paper towels out

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Oupa (4/1/16)

You guys probably refer to 100mg which is 10% nic... not 100% nic! 100% nic can only be handled by skilled, qualified personnel with the right safety equipment in a lab.

Reactions: Winner 3


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## Ernest (4/1/16)

Oupa said:


> You guys probably refer to 100mg which is 10% nic... not 100% nic! 100% nic can only be handled but skilled, qualified personnel with the right safety equipment in a lab.


Yes sorry, 100mg Nic.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Khan83 (4/1/16)

Oupa said:


> You guys probably refer to 100mg which is 10% nic... not 100% nic! 100% nic can only be handled by skilled, qualified personnel with the right safety equipment in a lab.


Correct , 100mg . Thanks Oupa


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