# Vapingś Dirty Secret



## Gizmo (11/4/16)

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/va...t-e-cigarettes-vape-manufacturing-regulations

Well written and totally agree. We need regulations. It is to easy to manufacture eliquid and regulation needs to happen.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Rob Fisher (11/4/16)

I wouldn't be in too much of a rush for regulation because we can't even stop people crossing white lines and red robots and regulation of the ejuice market will once again target people making a living while ignoring all the things that really need policing.

Plus 95% of all juice makers would have to shut down because only one or two would probably qualify for the level of regulation they would try and impose.

My take on it... I know what juices I like and I choose to buy from them because I trust them based on a long term quality delivery. I don't need some overgrown moron telling me what I can and can't do or what I can and can't vape... 

I guess I'm just getting old and cantankerous and I just see government control as a really bad thing in this country and I don't trust them one single bit. Regulation would just mean higher costs and some of the real great juice makers would be lost to us.

I may be out of kilter with everyone on this issue but I'm just fine and dandy choosing my juice from our local vendors without any interference from government thanks!

Reactions: Like 6 | Agree 13 | Winner 6


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## GreenyZA (11/4/16)

Rob Fisher said:


> I wouldn't be in too much of a rush for regulation because we can't even stop people crossing white lines and red robots and regulation of the ejuice market will once again target people making a living while ignoring all the things that really need policing.
> 
> Plus 95% of all juice makers would have to shut down because only one or two would probably qualify for the level of regulation they would try and impose.
> 
> ...


Well said Uncle Rob!!

Reactions: Like 1


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## DaveH (12/4/16)

One thing about having (Public safety and health) regulations it does legalise it. So it will not be all bad. 
Dave


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## Papa_Lazarou (12/4/16)

I used to work in the video game business for a major publisher. Rather than have the government regulate our business, the publishers got together and defined a set of standards for themselves - they self-regulated to keep the government out of it.

Reviewing, administrating, and policing all cost money, and the government was happy enough not to have to take the burden on. That was 20-ish years ago and the system is intact, driven by people inside the industry with a vested interest in efficiency, quality, and profitability, not bureaucracy.

Reactions: Like 6


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## Lord Vetinari (12/4/16)

Papa_Lazarou said:


> I used to work in the video game business for a major publisher. Rather than have the government regulate our business, the publishers got together and defined a set of standards for themselves - they self-regulated to keep the government out of it.
> 
> Reviewing, administrating, and policing all cost money, and the government was happy enough not to have to take the burden on. That was 20-ish years ago and the system is intact, driven by people inside the industry with a vested interest in efficiency, quality, and profitability, not bureaucracy.


Which is why a lot of people from here move to Canada. It is civilized. 

This is Africa.


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## DaveH (12/4/16)

Papa_Lazarou said:


> I used to work in the video game business for a major publisher. Rather than have the government regulate our business, the publishers got together and defined a set of standards for themselves - they self-regulated to keep the government out of it.
> 
> Reviewing, administrating, and policing all cost money, and the government was happy enough not to have to take the burden on. That was 20-ish years ago and the system is intact, driven by people inside the industry with a vested interest in efficiency, quality, and profitability, not bureaucracy.



Yep, I agree it's best not to get 'the government' involved (any government) self regulation can and does work.
The problem is where to 'pitch' the regulations - food and drink, medical, pharmaceutical, all present major problems, one could class it as smoking and make a real mess of it.
Hopefully it will have it own 'class' and be called Vaping with it's own regulations pertaining to vaping. (I live in hope )
Dave

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Lord Vetinari (12/4/16)

Rob Fisher said:


> I wouldn't be in too much of a rush for regulation because we can't even stop people crossing white lines and red robots and regulation of the ejuice market will once again target people making a living while ignoring all the things that really need policing.
> 
> Plus 95% of all juice makers would have to shut down because only one or two would probably qualify for the level of regulation they would try and impose.
> 
> ...



Well they are mostly talking about regulating sanitation. This is good. It will mean pretty much setting it up like a commercial kitchen. 

This isnt all bad. A bunch of guidelines to keep the whole chain safe whereby safeguarding the producer. 

Also boosting consumer confidence whereby helping vaping grow.

As long as theres consultation with and within the local industry like in the USA. Juice makers themselves started regulating the business for safety.

That seems most civilized. Try to set the standards so government doesnt need to.


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## DaveH (12/4/16)

Do not copy the USA they have a habit of coming late to the party and backing the wrong side, yes they do tend to get it right in the end.
They are classing vaping the same as smoking since when has smoke been the same as a vapour. 
I luv America and the American people but that doesn't mean we should copy them.

Dave

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Lord Vetinari (12/4/16)

DaveH said:


> Do not copy the USA they have a habit of coming late to the party and backing the wrong side, yes they do tend to get it right in the end.
> They are classing vaping the same as smoking since when has smoke been the same as a vapour.
> I luv America and the American people but that doesn't mean we should copy them.
> 
> Dave


More citations needed on the comments above please.
Anyhow. Nobody said have a copy of their situation. However it is wize to self regulate rather than wait for government and lose all control.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Papa_Lazarou (12/4/16)

Lord Vetinari said:


> Which is why a lot of people from here move to Canada. It is civilized.
> 
> This is Africa.



We're civilized until the hockey playoffs (my city has rioted twice after the finals).

The self-regulation I speak of is in place for about 40 other countries, as well. Sadly, not African nations, granted. Nevertheless (and I think you agree), self-regulation would seem to be better than forced governmental oversight.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Lord Vetinari (12/4/16)

Papa_Lazarou said:


> We're civilized until the hockey playoffs (my city has rioted twice after the finals).
> 
> The self-regulation I speak of is in place for about 40 other countries, as well. Sadly, not African nations, granted. Nevertheless (and I think you agree), self-regulation would seem to be better than forced governmental oversight.


Self regulation is also standard for the music biz over here... you wont see two events of similar nature share a date for example. Seems a matter of urgency for the e-cig biz. Very good point made Sir!


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## DaveH (12/4/16)

The food industry has (legal) regulations they seem to get along fine. So are you saying we should get rid of the legal regulations in the food industry and allow it to self regulate. 
It is important to realise that we are talking about public health and safety and by having legal regulations any transgressors can be punished. 
We have laws so that transgressors can be punished.
Dave


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## Cespian (12/4/16)

DaveH said:


> The food industry has (legal) regulations they seem to get along fine. So are you saying we should get rid of the legal regulations in the food industry and allow it to self regulate.
> It is important to realise that we are talking about public health and safety and by having legal regulations any transgressors can be punished.
> We have laws so that transgressors can be punished.
> Dave



The food industry is not completely regulated:

The Salt River Biscuit Mill market... random folk setting up a stall and selling their food products
Cape Town's St. Georges Mall Thursday market... random folk setting up a stall and selling their food products
Sedgefield Saturday market... random folk setting up a stall and selling their food products
N2 between Knysna and Plettenberg Bay... random folk setting up a stall and selling their food products

The list goes on

Point is, regulations will kill the industry... imagine now needing to get our Vape devices ICASA approved will probably be another associated regulation. The cost for e-juice will sky rocket. 

Maybe a better approach is to have it "somewhat regulated"... something like halaal food. Its not mandatory for a resturaunt to be halaal certified, but should they wish to be, they can approach SANHA or MJC for inspection and acquire a certificate. So in the vaping world, should a vendor wish to become certified, have some regulatory organisation inspect your lab and suppliers, acquire a certificate and those who are pedantic or overly concerned can purchase from those vendors only... leaving the others unaffected.

Reactions: Like 5


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## Rob Fisher (12/4/16)

Cespian said:


> Maybe a better approach is to have it "somewhat regulated"... something like halaal food. Its not mandatory for a resturaunt to be halaal certified, but should they wish to be, they can approach SANHA or MJC for inspection and acquire a certificate. So in the vaping world, should a vendor wish to become certified, have some regulatory organisation inspect your lab and suppliers, acquire a certificate and those who are pedantic or overly concerned can purchase from those vendors only... leaving the others unaffected.



I like this approach!

Reactions: Thanks 1


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## Christos (12/4/16)

I'll be glad to be the regulatory/inspection component. Each juice needs to be tested though after lab inspecting.
100ml per juice line should do.
I nominate @Rob Fisher as a member of the free juice associations board.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Funny 2 | Optimistic 1


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## BeardedVaper93 (12/4/16)

To defend the consumers, i DIY for my own consumption, and even i keep my area cleaner than that. yes it is a huge demand for them, and not actively used products, but is keeping the place clean too much to ask? i often get asked to sell my liquids, yet refuse it due to knowing i use a home environment with no lab clean rooms/surfaces. yet i still maintain a sterile as possible station which i mix on. this is just for added safety and i believe every mixer should at least strive for cleanliness.

Reactions: Like 1


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## DaveH (12/4/16)

Cespian said:


> The food industry is not completely regulated:


I agree, there are these so called "informal" food/makers sellers and most are totally responsible in what they do. Further most of the ingredients used in the preparation of the foods are regulated. 

We are just discussing the juice, not the whole of the vape gear. 

I just feel some sort of regulation is required and if it is along the lines of 'food and beverage' that would be fine. The problem is the juice is not really a food or a beverage, maybe for the regulations it can be classed as a food or beverage for the public safety.

It is just to safe guard the public.

Dave


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## Cespian (12/4/16)

BeardedVaper93 said:


> but is keeping the place clean too much to ask? .



I honestly don't believe that your statement is fair. I cant believe that you would have seen or inspected the current juice-maker's lab areas.


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## BeardedVaper93 (12/4/16)

Cespian said:


> I honestly don't believe that your statement is fair. I cant believe that you would have seen or inspected the current juice-maker's lab areas.



would you vape a liquid made there? because at some stage, in those images, someone was making liquids or using ingredients thereof that were stored there. maybe i have standards, but i know i wouldn't.


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## Cespian (12/4/16)

BeardedVaper93 said:


> would you vape a liquid made there? because at some stage, in those images, someone was making liquids or using ingredients thereof that were stored there. maybe i have standards, but i know i wouldn't.



My apologies sir. I read a bit too quickly and didnt know you were referring to the link in the OP. I assumed it to be a random jab at our current juice-makers.


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## BeardedVaper93 (12/4/16)

Cespian said:


> My apologies sir. I read a bit too quickly and didnt know you were referring to the link in the OP. I assumed it to be a random jab at our current juice-makers.



hehe no problem @Cespian. i would never do such

Reactions: Like 1


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