# E-cig Myth-busting



## Alex

source
*Ecig Myth-busting*

It's mind boggling that a device that has improved the lives of millions of people has been subject to so much misinformation and suspicion.

Or maybe it isn't so surprising. After all, e-cigarettes pose a threat to the status quo of the tobacco and pharmaceutical industry, plus government coffers.
The following are some of the more common myths and misinformation concerning electronic cigarettes

*Myth: There hasn't been enough research done on ecigarettes*

Plenty of research has been done; and plenty more is currently being undertaken.
-----
*Myth: Ecigs are a gateway to smoking*

This has never been demonstrated to be a major issue in any study. Stating this is a little like saying eating pizza is a gateway to eating dog poop. Read more about the "gateway" myth.
----
*Myth : There is no evidence ecigs help people give up smoking*

Again, evidence shows otherwise. For example, results published in the American Journal of Preventative Medicine revealed 31.0% of respondents who used ecigs were still not smoking cigarettes after 6 months. Read more.
---
*Myth: Ecigs cause cancer*

There has been no scientific research published to back this. Electronic cigarette vapors contain only minute traces of carcinogenic materials (as do nicotine chewing gum and patches) and far fewer carcinogens than tobacco cigarettes. Nicotine is not a carcinogen.
---
*Myth: Ecig glycerol causes lipoid pneumonia*

This myth has surfaced a few times. However, the glycerol used in eliquids cannot cause lipoid pneumonia as it is not an oil. Glycerol is an alcohol (not the type that intoxicates), not a lipid. The UK government's Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) stated in June 2013 it is not aware of any other cases of lipoid pneumonia associated with propylene glycol or glycerine products.
---
*Myth : Vaping Normalises Smoking*

How can it when it isn't smoking? There is no smoke. The vapor doesn't smell like smoke and increasingly, the devices have little resemblance to a cigarette; particularly 2nd and 3rd generation devices.
----
*Myth: Ecigs have many side effects*

Anything new introduced to the body has the potential to cause side effects or result in an allergic reaction. Bear in mind people have allergic reactions to all sorts of substances, including peanut butter. Also, some of the issues people experience when switching to e-cigarettes may be attributed to the body adjusting after ceasing smoking tobacco. Read more about vaping side effects.
---
*Myth: Ecigs are illegal in <country>.*

More often than not, this is rubbish. Electronic cigarettes are not illegal in Australia, Canada, the USA, UK and many other countries, assuming they are purchased by an adult. Where there can be some issues is in relation to selling or obtaining nicotine eliquids or devices containing nicotine.
----
*Myth: Ecig liquids contain toxic anti-freeze*

All sorts of substances are used for anti-freeze, including ethylene glycol; which is extremely toxic. However, this * is not* the substance used in eliquids. Liquids used in ecigs may contain propylene glycol; which is used in foods and medications and is generally recognised as safe (GRAS).
-----
*Myth: Ecigs damage lungs*

This myth was triggered by the results of a report in 2012 based on a study where ecigs were found to cause increased airway resistance. The study was reportedly flawed and the media further amplified and exaggerated the findings, which Dr. Michael Siegel, a Professor in the Department of Community Health Sciences, Boston University School of Public Health has challenged.
----
*Myth : Electronic cigarettes explosions are common*

Good quality electronic cigarettes will not explode or catch fire, assuming the user follows the instructions related to charging. Good quality units are built in such a way to minimise risk of battery fire (venting) or explosion, even when misused.
The simple fact is that all lithium battery based devices have the potential to explode - and this includes cell phones.
----
*Myth: Passive vaping is dangerous*

Some claim nicotine and carcinogens can be inhaled by bystanders. Research published by Dr Murray Laugesen, New Zealand’s most experienced researcher on smoking policy and cigarettes, states ecig vapor "does not contain any substance known to cause death, short or long term, in the quantities found."
-----
*Myth: Many teens are getting hooked on e-cigarettes*

This myth was started based on a study of teenage ecigarette use. What those perpetuating this myth often fail to mention is the vast majority of the teens using ecigarettes were already smokers; i.e. they were "hooked" on tobacco first.
------
*Myth: Ecigs Can Be Used For Marijuana*

Anyone trying to use marijuana with an electronic cigarette designed for nicotine liquids will get a nasty surprise - they simply will not work.

Reactions: Like 12 | Winner 16 | Informative 5 | Useful 2


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## Andre

The stuff you dig up are all so useful. I shall have to start indexing my bookmarks!

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Thanks 1


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## ET

shucks, was so happy about reading all this until i got to the last one.
sorry but you can use marijuana in an ecig. ok you have to prepare it first, there are a few methods, basically you'll have to infuse either pg or vg with the weeds thc but it can and has been done. seems stoners are nothing if not veeeery creative

Reactions: Funny 1


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## JakesSA

For interest sake, e-cigarettes are illegal in Singapore, the government (which is really just a very big business there) calculated the tax loss would be too high. A pack of ciggies cost roughly R100.

Reactions: Like 2 | Informative 3


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## Andre

JakesSA said:


> For interest sake, e-cigarettes are illegal in Singapore, the government (which is really just a very big business there) calculated the tax loss would be too high. A pack of ciggies cost roughly R100.


Illegal to use or illegal to sell. The latter is the case in Turkey.


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## JakesSA

Prohibited as far as I know. Didn't see a single vaper there.

Reactions: Thanks 1


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## Marzuq

ET said:


> shucks, was so happy about reading all this until i got to the last one.
> sorry but you can use marijuana in an ecig. ok you have to prepare it first, there are a few methods, basically you'll have to infuse either pg or vg with the weeds thc but it can and has been done. seems stoners are nothing if not veeeery creative



Have to agree with @ET on this one. I met a guy who sells devices for that exact purpose. Granted his been deleted off my Contact list and I will never trust anything be sells now. But those devices do exist 

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk


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## raymond

*According to Proponents of E-Cigarettes*
E- cigarettes produce far fewer carcinogens than traditional cigarettes. Traditional cigarettes contain between 4,000 and 7,000 harmful chemicals, many of which are produced by the tobacco and smoke. Since e-cigarettes use vapor technology, they expose users to fewer carcinogens.
Some studies show e-cigarettes can be effective in smoking cessation. In multiple studies and surveys, e-cigarettes have been shown to potentially help smokers to reduce their habit or to quit altogether. One New Zealand study showed e-cigarettes to be as effective as nicotine patches.
The second-hand effects are far less harmful than traditional cigarettes. Though second-hand vapor exists, the levels of smoke and second-hand effects of “vaping” are magnitudes lower than traditional smoking.
They are more socially acceptable and do not smell. E-cigarettes provide the same experience and sensation for smokers – particularly those with nicotine habits – but can be used in far more places. They do not leave a sticky, unpleasant odor and do not stain teeth or fingernails.
They are a cheaper alternative to smoking. While this has not been extensively researched, studies in the U.K. and the U.S. show that vaping habits can be up to 40 percent less expensive than cigarette smoking habits.

*According to Those in Opposition of E-Cigarettes*
Nicotine is still an addictive drug. While not all e-cigarettes contain nicotine, most do. Nicotine impacts the neurotransmitters in the brain, causing addictive cravings and behavior.
Electronic cigarettes still emit carcinogens. E-cigarettes use liquid nicotine, a highly dangerous substance even in small doses (far more dangerous than tobacco leaves themselves). Some testing suggests that some vaporizers release toxic metals during use.
The industry is relatively unregulated. These products are not subject to FDA approval and, according to some experts, they have not been studied thoroughly enough to understand potential risks.
There are potentially dangerous advertisements to young people. Studies have shown that e-cigarette ads reach more than 50 percent of 12 to 17-year-olds, and they are promoting addictive habits to young people.
The act of smoking is habit-forming. Almost all experts agree that the physical activities associated with smoking are habit-forming, without the help of tobacco or nicotine. This makes arguments about e-cigarettes helping smokers quick seem flawed, and also could promote negative habits among previous non-smokers.

from projectknow.com

Reactions: Informative 2


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## JakesSA

I think the message should be clear, vaping is a healthier alternative to smoking. Full stop. All the promises in the popular media of research that shows the contrary has been either disproven, sensationalist or are clearly biased by other agendas.

It's not clean air we vaping, nor a magic bullet to quit the habit, it's not for sale to children and it should not be for sale to non-smokers.

AND vaping doesn't stink nor require an endless supply of magically disappearing lighters ...

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2


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## raymond

That's 100% right! I bought my brother a ecig for his birthday as I would like him to kick the analogue habit. 2 Days later he asks: "How safe is this ecig thing? (He loves it by the way and no analogues for the past week!) My reply to this question whenever it pops up: "Anything other than air we inhale is normally not so good, but vaping is a far cry from the harmful chemicals and stench you get from analogues!"

Reactions: Like 1


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## crack2483

What a fat lie: "cheaper than smoking"  lol.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Kuhlkatz

crack2483 said:


> What a fat lie: "cheaper than smoking"  lol.



No, it's not a lie. *Normal* e-cig users can actually save when switching.

The 'definitely not cheaper' option only applies to the hardcore collectors, enthusiasts, hobbyists and nutty people like me that want new shiny toys all the time constantly strive for that ever-evading 'Perfect Vape'.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1 | Funny 1


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## johan

Well, at the rate I go through e-juice I'm not saving at all and work out way more than smoking.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2


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## Zef

With regards to charging a Vision Spinner, is it okay to plug the cable into my Samsung phone charger and charge that way? Surely it will be quicker than my PC's USB port but is it safe?


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## JakesSA

The rated output of those chargers are in the region of 400mA irrespective where you plug it into. So speed wise it will be the same. If your USB wall adapter outputs 5V with a minimum of say 1A it should work fine.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Thanks 1


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## CloudSurfer

I rate the vapor in our vapes is cleaner than the toxins in the air especially if you drive through Jozi.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## The Ballie

Thanks for all the info guys. I started vaping about 15 months ago and haven't touched a smoke. Between my wife and I we were spending about R3000+ on smokes, we spend about R700 on juice now. I have found that because the device is heavier than a cig I can't dangle it from my mouth so when I get up to go somewhere I often leave it on the desk, so my consumption has gone down. The other huge plus is we stay in a granny flat which is small but don't have that heavy smoke smell any more, and of course I don't cough up my lungs like I used to when smoking. I had been smoking for 45 years before switching and going thru 2-2.5 packs a day. The other advantage is I can change to different flavours that are more tasty than changing from Gunston to Lexington or any other name brand which generally all taste the same.

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 3


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## Andre

The Ballie said:


> Thanks for all the info guys. I started vaping about 15 months ago and haven't touched a smoke. Between my wife and I we were spending about R3000+ on smokes, we spend about R700 on juice now. I have found that because the device is heavier than a cig I can't dangle it from my mouth so when I get up to go somewhere I often leave it on the desk, so my consumption has gone down. The other huge plus is we stay in a granny flat which is small but don't have that heavy smoke smell any more, and of course I don't cough up my lungs like I used to when smoking. I had been smoking for 45 years before switching and going thru 2-2.5 packs a day. The other advantage is I can change to different flavours that are more tasty than changing from Gunston to Lexington or any other name brand which generally all taste the same.


Way to go! An absolute life saver for all smokers, but especially for us heavy smokers - 3/4 packs a day on my side. Happy vaping.


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## WHITELABEL

Awesome compilation thanks @Alex. That last myth is not entirely true though...

Reactions: Like 1


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## Alex

Gambit said:


> Awesome compilation thanks @Alex. That last myth is not entirely true though...


Haha, ok cool thanks.

I have no experience either way . 


Message sent via tapatalk

Reactions: Like 1


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## Michaelbro

I have a few people id like to show this too.


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## Redeemer

Vaping is most definitely much cleaner than smoking stinkies!
Over the weekend I had to work with an architect that chain smokes in her office while working, while I happily vaped away on my 'dummy' as she called my Mod..
After a few hours I had to request her to please open a window, in the freezing cold, as her smoke was making me feel nauseous and had a headache of note...
And just a few months ago we used to smoke together, now I feel for her family walking through the study stuffed with cigarette smoke, I couldn't stand it anymore and i'm only 2 months analogue free!

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Winner 3


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## Byakko

I've read a lot of "research" similar to these...just proves most people are sadly stupid enough to believe everything they read :/
Here's a new one.A few days ago a customer said vaping causes testicular cancer and 'it was proven'...news to me  my poor testicles

Reactions: Winner 1 | Funny 3 | Useful 1 | Creative 1


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## Jakey

So I stumbled upon this.... (well my wife actually threw this at me)
http://arstechnica.com/science/2016...s-dont/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Anybody seen this article before?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## blujeenz

Jakey said:


> So I stumbled upon this.... (well my wife actually threw this at me)
> http://arstechnica.com/science/2016...s-dont/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
> 
> Anybody seen this article before?


Nope, but it has a large element of hogwash to it.
Basically talking about stuff the average joe cant see and then pushing the scare button.
In a compromised immune system you will experience illness as any HIV+ individual not on ARV meds can attest.
First on the scene is usually the good old common and garden variety colds and flu.
From my experience regards cigs, I used to get colds regularly, once I stopped smoking I no longer got colds of flu...ever.
Since I have started vaping in Oct 2015 I am still cold and flu free, therefore I call BS hogwash on that article.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## stevie g

ET said:


> shucks, was so happy about reading all this until i got to the last one.
> sorry but you can use marijuana in an ecig. ok you have to prepare it first, there are a few methods, basically you'll have to infuse either pg or vg with the weeds thc but it can and has been done. seems stoners are nothing if not veeeery creative


do you have experience to tell you that it works?.


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## Jakey

blujeenz said:


> Nope, but it has a large element of hogwash to it.
> Basically talking about stuff the average joe cant see and then pushing the scare button.
> In a compromised immune system you will experience illness as any HIV+ individual not on ARV meds can attest.
> First on the scene is usually the good old common and garden variety colds and flu.
> From my experience regards cigs, I used to get colds regularly, once I stopped smoking I no longer got colds of flu...ever.
> Since I have started vaping in Oct 2015 I am still cold and flu free, therefore I call BS hogwash on that article.



ive actually been getting sick quite a bit lately. not saying that its eCig related. just saying.


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## BuzzGlo

So i read an article about this ages back instead of explaining 

http://www.achoice2live.com/every-hurt-is-a-heal-the-quitters-flu/

I guess the more years of tar and chemicals in your system the more likely you are to get this on going over the years. IDK


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## NewOobY

Jakey said:


> So I stumbled upon this.... (well my wife actually threw this at me)
> http://arstechnica.com/science/2016...s-dont/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
> 
> Anybody seen this article before?



I just read that article and it seems pretty scary actually however in all honesty I haven't felt healthier than I am currently while smoking. I actually felt sh!t while smoking always getting sick etc - so the question is who sponsored this research? Maybe it was BAT... #JustSaying

Also sheesh this is one helaofa thread thanks @Alex.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Thanks 1


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## NewOobY

Jakey said:


> ive actually been getting sick quite a bit lately. not saying that its eCig related. just saying.


maybe you like RIP and have a PG allergy <-- get some Ultima dude that stuff works and fixes everything

Reactions: Winner 1 | Funny 1


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## Kuhlkatz

Jakey said:


> So I stumbled upon this.... (well my wife actually threw this at me)
> http://arstechnica.com/science/2016...s-dont/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
> 
> Anybody seen this article before?



Does anyone else smell something fishy, or am I just parked a bit too close to that I & J truck ?

They have done studies but not really published any of the findings yet as far as we know, just 'revealed' the results at a large conference. Wonder if they need more 'funding' to play with some more mucus ? 
They seem to fail to actually notice that cigarette smokers mostly inhale and exhale via the mouth, where vapers tend to inhale via the mouth and then exhale through the mouth AND nose for enhanced flavor. Perhaps this 'direct' contact with the nasal mucus makes this more detectable in vapers vs. smokers, seeing that this is primarily where their swabs came from.
As I have it, cigarette smoke also contains diacetyl and does so in larger quantities than most of the e-juices, so not sure why this is once again highlighted as a 'vaping only' risk for popcorn lung. They seem to miss that more and more juices are also reworked or phased out to NOT make use of any flavorings that produces this, despite the lower risks.

I suppose we will only really know after decades of vaping and lots more studies. I do know that I feel much better than I ever did on ciggies, and I'd much rather chance to pick up a passing bug that's going round than know for sure that my chances of getting cancer or emphysema from smoking is almost a given.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## Byakko

Jakey said:


> So I stumbled upon this.... (well my wife actually threw this at me)
> http://arstechnica.com/science/2016...s-dont/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
> 
> Anybody seen this article before?



Nope but that article smells of propaganda...How is it that everyone I know has been healthier since quitting cigs and started vaping,by their own admission.Unfortunately most non-vapers who read the article will take what is said as fact.It disgusts me that tobacco companies would support this kind of 'research' but then again,money is the root of all evil,right?


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## NewOobY

Byakko said:


> Nope but that article smells of propaganda...How is it that everyone I know has been healthier since quitting cigs and started vaping,by their own admission.Unfortunately most non-vapers who read the article will take what is said as fact.It disgusts me that tobacco companies would support this kind of 'research' but then again,money is the root of all evil,right?


wait until the media get's wind of this - it is headline news. They will take one of the most crazy sentences in that report, and use it in the headline without the context of that sentence. Mark my words it is going to happen.

I honestly think it was one of the big tobacco companies that sponsored that research, which makes there findings obviously in favor of analogs.


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## Greyz

These articles piss me off to no avail. All my hard Vape-Evangelism work gets thrown down the toilet when drivvle like this comes out.
Can already see the analogue users using this to justify why their toxins are better than vaping

Reactions: Agree 4


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## Waine

Alex said:


> source
> *Ecig Myth-busting*
> 
> It's mind boggling that a device that has improved the lives of millions of people has been subject to so much misinformation and suspicion.
> 
> Or maybe it isn't so surprising. After all, e-cigarettes pose a threat to the status quo of the tobacco and pharmaceutical industry, plus government coffers.
> The following are some of the more common myths and misinformation concerning electronic cigarettes
> 
> *Myth: There hasn't been enough research done on ecigarettes*
> 
> Plenty of research has been done; and plenty more is currently being undertaken.
> -----
> *Myth: Ecigs are a gateway to smoking*
> 
> This has never been demonstrated to be a major issue in any study. Stating this is a little like saying eating pizza is a gateway to eating dog poop. Read more about the "gateway" myth.
> ----
> *Myth : There is no evidence ecigs help people give up smoking*
> 
> Again, evidence shows otherwise. For example, results published in the American Journal of Preventative Medicine revealed 31.0% of respondents who used ecigs were still not smoking cigarettes after 6 months. Read more.
> ---
> *Myth: Ecigs cause cancer*
> 
> There has been no scientific research published to back this. Electronic cigarette vapors contain only minute traces of carcinogenic materials (as do nicotine chewing gum and patches) and far fewer carcinogens than tobacco cigarettes. Nicotine is not a carcinogen.
> ---
> *Myth: Ecig glycerol causes lipoid pneumonia*
> 
> This myth has surfaced a few times. However, the glycerol used in eliquids cannot cause lipoid pneumonia as it is not an oil. Glycerol is an alcohol (not the type that intoxicates), not a lipid. The UK government's Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) stated in June 2013 it is not aware of any other cases of lipoid pneumonia associated with propylene glycol or glycerine products.
> ---
> *Myth : Vaping Normalises Smoking*
> 
> How can it when it isn't smoking? There is no smoke. The vapor doesn't smell like smoke and increasingly, the devices have little resemblance to a cigarette; particularly 2nd and 3rd generation devices.
> ----
> *Myth: Ecigs have many side effects*
> 
> Anything new introduced to the body has the potential to cause side effects or result in an allergic reaction. Bear in mind people have allergic reactions to all sorts of substances, including peanut butter. Also, some of the issues people experience when switching to e-cigarettes may be attributed to the body adjusting after ceasing smoking tobacco. Read more about vaping side effects.
> ---
> *Myth: Ecigs are illegal in <country>.*
> 
> More often than not, this is rubbish. Electronic cigarettes are not illegal in Australia, Canada, the USA, UK and many other countries, assuming they are purchased by an adult. Where there can be some issues is in relation to selling or obtaining nicotine eliquids or devices containing nicotine.
> ----
> *Myth: Ecig liquids contain toxic anti-freeze*
> 
> All sorts of substances are used for anti-freeze, including ethylene glycol; which is extremely toxic. However, this * is not* the substance used in eliquids. Liquids used in ecigs may contain propylene glycol; which is used in foods and medications and is generally recognised as safe (GRAS).
> -----
> *Myth: Ecigs damage lungs*
> 
> This myth was triggered by the results of a report in 2012 based on a study where ecigs were found to cause increased airway resistance. The study was reportedly flawed and the media further amplified and exaggerated the findings, which Dr. Michael Siegel, a Professor in the Department of Community Health Sciences, Boston University School of Public Health has challenged.
> ----
> *Myth : Electronic cigarettes explosions are common*
> 
> Good quality electronic cigarettes will not explode or catch fire, assuming the user follows the instructions related to charging. Good quality units are built in such a way to minimise risk of battery fire (venting) or explosion, even when misused.
> The simple fact is that all lithium battery based devices have the potential to explode - and this includes cell phones.
> ----
> *Myth: Passive vaping is dangerous*
> 
> Some claim nicotine and carcinogens can be inhaled by bystanders. Research published by Dr Murray Laugesen, New Zealand’s most experienced researcher on smoking policy and cigarettes, states ecig vapor "does not contain any substance known to cause death, short or long term, in the quantities found."
> -----
> *Myth: Many teens are getting hooked on e-cigarettes*
> 
> This myth was started based on a study of teenage ecigarette use. What those perpetuating this myth often fail to mention is the vast majority of the teens using ecigarettes were already smokers; i.e. they were "hooked" on tobacco first.
> ------
> *Myth: Ecigs Can Be Used For Marijuana*
> 
> Anyone trying to use marijuana with an electronic cigarette designed for nicotine liquids will get a nasty surprise - they simply will not work.


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## Waine

@Alex Thanks for this post. It added a bit more confidence to my vaping psyche. I am convinced that the big cigarette companies are trying to discredit vaping as it poses a substantial threat to the cigarette industry. However, the cigarette companies should not be worried as vaping is much more expensive than cigarette smoking. Therefore the "masses" will still continue to smoke "cheap" cigarettes as vaping is, for many, not affordable.


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## ET

Sprint said:


> do you have experience to tell you that it works?.



No personal experience, just stuff i've read on the web.


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## Lord Vetinari

Sprint said:


> do you have experience to tell you that it works?.


Google Bad Kat's Canna Pharm. Scroll down to the e-liquid tutorial.

EDIT: I just read it and she says it works but it takes like 4 weeks. Looks like the same process as steeping. So there we have it. Possible but a mission. 

My 2 cents on it is PLEASE DONT **** UP SOMETHING GREAT BY PUTTING WEED IN E LIQUID. Now THAT is a rumour nobody needs.


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## Lord Vetinari

Marzuq said:


> Have to agree with @ET on this one. I met a guy who sells devices for that exact purpose. Granted his been deleted off my Contact list and I will never trust anything be sells now. But those devices do exist
> 
> Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk


Dry herb vaporizers. They are not e-cigs at all. I Saw them at work in a documentary on weed. Weird things. Most of the ones in the show fill up a plastic bag and you suck on a nozzle on the bag. Part of the medical weed movement because sick people dont want smoke. The doccie showed a lady in a wheelchair with no ability to even hold the bag herself so the vapour just gets blown over her face by other people. Absolutely nothing even similar to our devices or community.


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## WARMACHINE

I understand the hate from the tobacco companies, but really don't get all hate from government authorities. They are banning vaping left right and centre, without any concrete information on why. What is up here ?

"The legal status of e-cigarettes is currently pending in many countries. Some countries such as Brazil, Singapore, the Seychelles, and Uruguay have banned e-cigarettes.In Canada, they are technically illegal to sell, as no nicotine-containing e-fluid is approved by Health Canada, but this is generally unenforced and they are commonly available for sale Canada-wide. In the United Kingdom, the use and sale of e-cigarettes are legal. In the US, the use and sale of e-cigarettes are legal."

SOURCE: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_of_electronic_cigarettes


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## BioHAZarD

WARMACHINE said:


> I understand the hate from the tobacco companies, but really don't get all hate from government authorities. They are banning vaping left right and centre, without any concrete information on why. What is up here ?
> 
> "The legal status of e-cigarettes is currently pending in many countries. Some countries such as Brazil, Singapore, the Seychelles, and Uruguay have banned e-cigarettes.In Canada, they are technically illegal to sell, as no nicotine-containing e-fluid is approved by Health Canada, but this is generally unenforced and they are commonly available for sale Canada-wide. In the United Kingdom, the use and sale of e-cigarettes are legal. In the US, the use and sale of e-cigarettes are legal."
> 
> SOURCE: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_of_electronic_cigarettes


Reduces the income they receive from tax levies they impose on cigarettes if they lose all the smokers to ecigs

Sent from my Note 4

Reactions: Like 1


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## Silver

WARMACHINE said:


> I understand the hate from the tobacco companies, but really don't get all hate from government authorities. They are banning vaping left right and centre, without any concrete information on why. What is up here ?
> 
> "The legal status of e-cigarettes is currently pending in many countries. Some countries such as Brazil, Singapore, the Seychelles, and Uruguay have banned e-cigarettes.In Canada, they are technically illegal to sell, as no nicotine-containing e-fluid is approved by Health Canada, but this is generally unenforced and they are commonly available for sale Canada-wide. In the United Kingdom, the use and sale of e-cigarettes are legal. In the US, the use and sale of e-cigarettes are legal."
> 
> SOURCE: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_of_electronic_cigarettes



I think it's quite complex @WARMACHINE
And naturally it differs from country to country
One has to look at all the stakeholders. Big pharma included
And one needs to understand the flow of money in the entire chain
And factor in the political backdrop in each.

Am just hoping that more countries in the world will see it the way the UK seems to sees it (ours included).

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## WARMACHINE

BioHAZarD said:


> Reduces the income they receive from tax levies they impose on cigarettes if they lose all the smokers to ecigs
> 
> Sent from my Note 4


I would agree, but the huge cost burden that tobacco related illness contribute to a country's health budget is massive, and far out weighs the taxes collected. It seems a dumb way to go about, but then we are talking politicians, not the brightest crayons in the box

Reactions: Like 2


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## WARMACHINE

Silver said:


> I think it's quite complex @WARMACHINE
> And naturally it differs from country to country
> One has to look at all the stakeholders. Big pharma included
> And one needs to understand the flow of money in the entire chain
> And factor in the political backdrop in each.
> 
> Am just hoping that more countries in the world will see it the way the UK seems to sees it (ours included).


Yeah, it is totally insane. Start prohibiting the real "crack cocaine"of the world - SUGAR. This kills more people than any other substance on the earth, but you don't see any meaningful legislation to curb the carnage.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## Silver

WARMACHINE said:


> I would agree, but the huge cost burden that tobacco related illness contribute to a country's health budget is massive, and far out weighs the taxes collected.



Therein lies the answer
However I dont believe that we know the numbers behind that
And dont forget that Big Pharma makes billions treating smoking related illnesses - and they pay taxes too
And there are long standing relationships between all these stakeholders and government that go back decades - and it differs by country.

You are right though!

Vaping for the win

Reactions: Like 3


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## BioHAZarD

WARMACHINE said:


> I would agree, but the huge cost burden that tobacco related illness contribute to a country's health budget is massive, and far out weighs the taxes collected. It seems a dumb way to go about, but then we are talking politicians, not the brightest crayons in the box


Yup. Where politicians are concerned all reason and common sense flies right out the window.

Never abt the country but rather how they can line their own pockets

Sent from my Note 4

Reactions: Agree 1


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## zadiac

It is way more profitable to treat a disease than to cure it. Big pharma will lose billions if all smokers quit.

Reactions: Like 1


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## WARMACHINE

zadiac said:


> It is way more profitable to treat a disease than to cure it. Big pharma will lose billions if all smokers quit.



It's coming. UK government saying a million people gave up cigarettes due to e-cigs. That is alot of people - 1,5% of their entire population.

Reactions: Like 1


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## daveza

Lord Vetinari said:


> Google Bad Kat's Canna Pharm. Scroll down to the e-liquid tutorial.



Whoever designed that site should cut down a bit.


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## Lord Vetinari

daveza said:


> Whoever designed that site should cut down a bit.


Looool... my guess was a Microsoft Frontpage DIY vibe.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Hardtail1969

just my own 2c...

Remember guys, any new development, that threatens to change or upset the established ways, is always seen as suspicious and treated accordingly.

This holds true for things like the internet, cellphones, in fact any new technology.

Goverments the world over owe their existence to taxation, and in many countries, there are "sin taxes", these are applied to products that are seen as "unhealthy" but not illegal.

Also, take cigarette companies, many are now sniffing around the smaller and bigger e-cig companies, the juice companies, and i would not be surprised to see a few being bought out in the future.

In the meantime, the reactions we are seeing, the pseudo science and alarmist news, all these are designed not necessarily to prevent vaping, but usually are done in a effort to ensure future validity and value of certain advocacy groups. 

after all imagine what would happen to the multi billion dollar cancer industry if there was a miracle cure tomorrow?

all of these reports, look at who made them, look at what they "warn" about..then see what the purpose is - take lithium... now we are seeing petrol and car manufacturers warning consumers about the ecological harm that lithium mining is causing...and claiming their analog vehicles are more eco friendly and produce carbon which is claimed is a "tree food"...

when will all this end? 

when goverments start to impose a tax on vape gear and juices. 

when large corporates (RJ Reynolds et al.) buy the small startups and start to release "Camel, Winston, Benson Hedges" e-liquids.

Thats when Vaping will be accepted and be main streamed.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2


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## Zia

Finally something to show my parents to back me up.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Adephi

Zia said:


> Finally something to show my parents to back me up.


Wish my folks would be that easy to convince. They rather believe Huisgenoot and RSG than any scientific paper.

Reactions: Can relate 1


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## Zia

Adephi said:


> Wish my folks would be that easy to convince. They rather believe Huisgenoot and RSG than any scientific paper.


Same lmao. This _might_ help me but the odds are like 10%


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## Jean claude Vaaldamme

Ok Im a new vaper, but an old smoker. Something that always puzzled me. It all starts with the name. Vape. I assume its for vapor? And most vapors will tell you tjey just inhaling vapor 
Now here is my question, all the juice I ever handled feels like oil. If you put oil on something hot, you get smoke, not vapor?


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## stevie g

Both VG and PG are classified as sugar alcohols.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Puff the Magic Dragon

Hi @Jean claude Vaaldamme . It looks like smoke but it is vapour.

Inhale the vapour and blow it out onto a piece of glass or window. If you do this a couple of times you will see and feel droplets on the glass. If you do this with a cigarette you will see very little or no moisture on the glass.

This is a layman's explanation. I'm sure others will give you a more scientific response.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## CTRiaan

@Jean claude Vaaldamme , smoke is the result of combustion and vaping is done at a temperature that is lower than the eliquid's point of combustion.


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## Jean claude Vaaldamme

Thanks, but
If I breath onto glass without smoke or vaping there is also condensation?

If I put oil( cooking oil or olive) in a pan on the stove and leave it on, it starts smoking without combusting, and you can smell hhe burning oil for miles?

Reactions: Like 1


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## CTRiaan

@Jean claude Vaaldamme , that's why we don't vape olive oil.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Informative 1


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## Raindance

Jean claude Vaaldamme said:


> Thanks, but
> If I breath onto glass without smoke or vaping there is also condensation?
> 
> If I put oil( cooking oil or olive) in a pan on the stove and leave it on, it starts smoking without combusting, and you can smell hhe burning oil for miles?


The difference being that our vape juice is not heated to a point where its chemistry changes. Our juices boiling point is lower than that of oil therefore it evaporates before it starts oxidizing or changing chemical composition.
You can ofcourse overheat it and get it to oxidize or burn but you would not vape the resulting vapour for pleasure. Our cotton would anyway ignite before you reach that point.

Regards

Reactions: Like 5 | Agree 2


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## Resistance

Jean claude Vaaldamme said:


> Thanks, but
> If I breath onto glass without smoke or vaping there is also condensation?
> 
> If I put oil( cooking oil or olive) in a pan on the stove and leave it on, it starts smoking without combusting, and you can smell hhe burning oil for miles?


Those fume are actually highly combustible vapours,with enough heat it will combust and shoot a ball of flames into the air and then the oil in the pan will ignite.

Vg and Pg is a of a different atomic structure but will also ignite when enough heat is introduced.

Oil is much denser. even if you could get it to vaporize, dont vape it.


Sent from my X30 using Tapatalk


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## Jean claude Vaaldamme

Thanks for all the technical and scientific explanations. I no nothing about that. Sorry still not convinced, I know two sayings.
If it looks like smoke and smells like smoke, it must be smoke
Or
I know smoke and I know vapor, and this ant no vapor


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## Grand Guru

There are a few studies out there. Some of which were conducted by internationally recognized scientists. May be you should do some research bud.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Raindance

Jean claude Vaaldamme said:


> Thanks for all the technical and scientific explanations. I no nothing about that. Sorry still not convinced, I know two sayings.
> If it looks like smoke and smells like smoke, it must be smoke
> Or
> I know smoke and I know vapor, and this ant no vapor


Trust me boet, I'm a doctor. Well ok, not really but then neither is Dr Phill.

Regards

Reactions: Winner 1 | Funny 2


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## Alex

Jean claude Vaaldamme said:


> Ok Im a new vaper, but an old smoker. Something that always puzzled me. It all starts with the name. Vape. I assume its for vapor? And most vapors will tell you tjey just inhaling vapor
> Now here is my question, all the juice I ever handled feels like oil. If you put oil on something hot, you get smoke, not vapor?


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## Jean claude Vaaldamme

Thanks, nice video.. Im not disputing that vaping has less harmfull chemicals like tar(which I think is most of that brown in video). My problem is the vapor or smoke part. Maybe its like water vapor is actuallly a gas, so these vape vapor is also a gas but not water vapor, accordung to my experience.

Let me say in laymans terms. Check the steam coming out your kettle or a steam train and see how quickly is desolves in atmosphere. Now go to a cigar lounge, or a smoking area for example in a casino and look how the smoke "hangs" in the air, or even smoke yourself in a smal closed room.
Now go into these vaping lounges and spot if there is a difference


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## Raindance

Jean claude Vaaldamme said:


> Thanks, nice video.. Im not disputing that vaping has less harmfull chemicals like tar(which I think is most of that brown in video). My problem is the vapor or smoke part. Maybe its like water vapor is actuallly a gas, so these vape vapor is also a gas but not water vapor, accordung to my experience.
> 
> Let me say in laymans terms. Check the steam coming out your kettle or a steam train and see how quickly is desolves in atmosphere. Now go to a cigar lounge, or a smoking area for example in a casino and look how the smoke "hangs" in the air, or even smoke yourself in a smal closed room.
> Now go into these vaping lounges and spot if there is a difference


Smoke is ash and soot suspended in the air. Vapor is a gas.

Regards


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## Adephi

Back when I was smoking you could tar a highway with the stuff I coughed up every morning. Since I stopped smoking and only vaped there is no cough in the morning or wierd substances greeting me.

That's the difference for me.

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 1


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## Alex

Jean claude Vaaldamme said:


> Thanks, nice video.. Im not disputing that vaping has less harmfull chemicals like tar(which I think is most of that brown in video). My problem is the vapor or smoke part. Maybe its like water vapor is actuallly a gas, so these vape vapor is also a gas but not water vapor, accordung to my experience.
> 
> Let me say in laymans terms. Check the steam coming out your kettle or a steam train and see how quickly is desolves in atmosphere. Now go to a cigar lounge, or a smoking area for example in a casino and look how the smoke "hangs" in the air, or even smoke yourself in a smal closed room.
> Now go into these vaping lounges and spot if there is a difference



https://www.vapingpost.com/2018/08/...e-vapour-does-not-contain-toxic-formaldehyde/

Reactions: Like 2


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## Grand Guru

In my humble opinion the facts are simple here. Vaping is a relatively a new thing and we probably still have not the slightest clue of its long term side effects. And it’ll probably take us a good 100 years before we can talk about it with certainty. After all it took us about 4 or 5 hundred years to condamn the stinkies.
Obviously the research studies that were conducted were done bearing in mind the well known effects of smoking so we’re probably not looking in the right direction...

Formaldehyde, Diacetyl leading to popcorn lungs etc. are molecules that you may (or not) be exposed to whilst vaping. It’s a risk we’re all willingly taking provided that we avoid the 4000+ chemicals we certainly used to inhale when sucking on the stinky sticks.

My choice is made! I opt for the evil I don’t know!

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Jansen

Very interesting factoids and a lot of information both for and against vaping.

To add my 2 cents, I was a medium to heavy smoker smoking between 1 and 2 packs of camel classic per day and about a month ago I took up vaping and haven't touched a cigarette since (I have an unfinished pack lying here).

I feel a lot better and as mentioned the morning cough has disappeared, my smell and taste are better and I believe I also smell better.

Now looking at all (or at least some )of the scientific research I can add one thing with certainty, I feel 200% better and that is a huge plus for me irrespective of what the nay Sayers are stating.

Happy clouds

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 4


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## Adephi

Grand Guru said:


> In my humble opinion the facts are simple here. Vaping is a relatively a new thing and we probably still have not the slightest clue of its long term side effects. And it’ll probably take us a good 100 years before we can talk about it with certainty. After all it took us about 4 or 5 hundred years to condamn the stinkies.
> Obviously the research studies that were conducted were done bearing in mind the well known effects of smoking so we’re probably not looking in the right direction...
> 
> Formaldehyde, Diacetyl leading to popcorn lungs etc. are molecules that you may (or not) be exposed to whilst vaping. It’s a risk we’re all willingly taking provided that we avoid the 4000+ chemicals we certainly used to inhale when sucking on the stinky sticks.
> 
> My choice is made! I opt for the evil I don’t know!



The very first scientific studies on smoking was done in the 1960's. Within about 9 months it was found that smoking causes cancer. But the industry just kept on booming. Instead of banning it it was encouraged.

Vaping has been researched for over 10 years and no conclusive evidence to any major illness have been linked directly to vaping. I think we are moving into long term phases of the studies by now.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Alex

To anyone interested have a look here 

https://www.ecigssa.co.za/health-matters.f60/


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## Elmien

Grand Guru said:


> In my humble opinion the facts are simple here. Vaping is a relatively a new thing and we probably still have not the slightest clue of its long term side effects. And it’ll probably take us a good 100 years before we can talk about it with certainty. After all it took us about 4 or 5 hundred years to condamn the stinkies.
> Obviously the research studies that were conducted were done bearing in mind the well known effects of smoking so we’re probably not looking in the right direction...
> 
> Formaldehyde, Diacetyl leading to popcorn lungs etc. are molecules that you may (or not) be exposed to whilst vaping. It’s a risk we’re all willingly taking provided that we avoid the 4000+ chemicals we certainly used to inhale when sucking on the stinky sticks.
> 
> My choice is made! I opt for the evil I don’t know!



An interesting response to the formaldehyde study: 

Some info on the diacetyl:

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Jansen

Good evening all.

I came across the following post : https://www.irishpost.com/life-styl...9xwpvpttfCScPe-kmkxUTe6DVqkwacO4cDAw3ytxLP9pM talking about lung inflammation and in turn the mentioned post links to a study posted in American Journal of Physiology-Lung Cellular and Molecular Physiology: https://www.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/ajplung.00389.2017

Now it's a long read with a lot of technical jargon and if one (or more ) of the clever people can layman it a bit it would be appreciated.


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## Adephi

Jansen said:


> Good evening all.
> 
> I came across the following post : https://www.irishpost.com/life-styl...9xwpvpttfCScPe-kmkxUTe6DVqkwacO4cDAw3ytxLP9pM talking about lung inflammation and in turn the mentioned post links to a study posted in American Journal of Physiology-Lung Cellular and Molecular Physiology: https://www.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/ajplung.00389.2017
> 
> Now it's a long read with a lot of technical jargon and if one (or more ) of the clever people can layman it a bit it would be appreciated.



What I get from this is, mice really shouldn't vape.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Jansen

Adephi said:


> What I get from this is, mice really shouldn't vape.


Hahaha I haven't thought of that

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Adephi

I saw that Irishpost article before. And it didn't make sense. They say the mice developed inflammation after a few days to 4 weeks of periodic vapour exposure. But I had a checkup 6 months after I started vaping and the doctor gave me the all clear. And not just me. Some guys on the forum has been vaping constantly for over 6 years. Now where is our inflammation?

Reactions: Like 1


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## RichJB

I don't think it's inflammation that you would notice. Shampooing your hair probably causes mild inflammation in the hair roots or scalp. You're not going to feel anything but if they examined cells in your scalp at a micro level, it may show indicators of inflammation.

It just seems to be saying that vapour isn't harmless, that it causes mild inflammation of the lungs, increased mucus production, less efficient airway mechanics and other physiological reactions that can be expected any time anything but air is inhaled. The effects are present using only VG and PG, but become worse with the addition of flavouring. Nic doesn't seem to have a dramatic effect. Depending on which variable they were testing, nicotine made it slightly worse, slightly better or made no difference. Overall, the effects aren't as bad as cigarette smoke.

In short, pretty much what we know already: our lungs function best when we only breathe in fresh air, not quite as well when we inhale vapour, worst of all when we inhale smoke. That syncs with what I've felt personally. I feel waaaaaaaay better than I did when smoking. But if I go without vaping for four or five hours, as I often do, I feel I'm breathing a little easier than if I vape heavily during the same period.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Funny 1 | Thanks 1 | Can relate 1 | Informative 1


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## Jansen

RichJB said:


> I don't think it's inflammation that you would notice. Shampooing your hair probably causes mild inflammation in the hair roots or scalp. You're not going to feel anything but if they examined cells in your scalp at a micro level, it may show indicators of inflammation.
> 
> It just seems to be saying that vapour isn't harmless, that it causes mild inflammation of the lungs, increased mucus production, less efficient airway mechanics and other physiological reactions that can be expected any time anything but air is inhaled. The effects are present using only VG and PG, but become worse with the addition of flavouring. Nic doesn't seem to have a dramatic effect. Depending on which variable they were testing, nicotine made it slightly worse, slightly better or made no difference. Overall, the effects aren't as bad as cigarette smoke.
> 
> In short, pretty much what we know already: our lungs function best when we only breathe in fresh air, not quite as well when we inhale vapour, worst of all when we inhale smoke. That syncs with what I've felt personally. I feel waaaaaaaay better than I did when smoking. But if I go without vaping for four or five hours, as I often do, I feel I'm breathing a little easier than if I vape heavily during the same period.


This is really well explained and objective. Thanks for the feedback!

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Hooked

Jean claude Vaaldamme said:


> Ok Im a new vaper, but an old smoker. Something that always puzzled me. It all starts with the name. Vape. I assume its for vapor? And most vapors will tell you tjey just inhaling vapor
> Now here is my question, all the juice I ever handled feels like oil. If you put oil on something hot, you get smoke, not vapor?



You've got a point! Actually, Vape Juice SA calls their juice "nicotine oil"


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## The Golden Cauldron

ET said:


> shucks, was so happy about reading all this until i got to the last one.
> sorry but you can use marijuana in an ecig. ok you have to prepare it first, there are a few methods, basically you'll have to infuse either pg or vg with the weeds thc but it can and has been done. seems stoners are nothing if not veeeery creative


Well, true, and creativity and curiosity are definitely a good thing if tempered with some wisdom. But a shorter route would just be to get the right vaporizer, or tank. Sadly I have looked and for South Africa currently, you need to import a tank, unless someone knows where I can buy one locally? Because the standalone BKL I have is awesome, but I would love to have a herbal vaporizer tank that can work with my 510 mod thread, and would prefer supporting local business before I import.


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## Puff the Magic Dragon

The Golden Cauldron said:


> Well, true, and creativity and curiosity are definitely a good thing if tempered with some wisdom. But a shorter route would just be to get the right vaporizer, or tank. Sadly I have looked and for South Africa currently, you need to import a tank, unless someone knows where I can buy one locally? Because the standalone BKL I have is awesome, but I would love to have a herbal vaporizer tank that can work with my 510 mod thread, and would prefer supporting local business before I import.



I know next to nothing about this field of interest but Vaperite sells tons of this type of kit. 

https://www.vaperite.co.za/product-category/cannarite/cannabis-vaporizers/

Reactions: Like 1


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## The Golden Cauldron

Puff the Magic Dragon said:


> I know next to nothing about this field of interest but Vaperite sells tons of this type of kit.
> 
> https://www.vaperite.co.za/product-category/cannarite/cannabis-vaporizers/


I bought the stand-alone kit from them, and it is really super awesome. Without it, I would have kept lighting up. I use it for medical reasons, and it really has saved my life, if I kept taking the insane amount of medicine I needed I would have been worse, not better, so a doctor actually suggested that I try it. But alas, they only have standalone kits. Would love to get a tank, but still contemplating if I should import one from the US. I would also love to see the stigma regarding this die down a bit. That would possibly result in tanks and other amazing related things being sold here in SA. Not hat I would wait that long. If it comes down to it, I will import one soon as I have some extra cash again.

Reactions: Like 1 | Creative 1


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