# Mixing with pipette help (asseblief tog)



## Rude Rudi (12/8/16)

As part of my DIY journey, I got a set of pipettes and a pipette pump form Blck Vapour yesterday...

My enthusiasm to mix a new brew with me new toys was quickly dashed when I realised that it is not as simple as I thought... The pippettes are serological and the measurements are in reverse, ie not like a normal syringe form 1-10ml up but form 10-1... This added much frustration as it is quite tricky to work out...

I searched Mr Google stukkend and could not find any simple usage instructions/deciphering on how to accurately measure small quantities. I have a 2ml and a 10ml.

*Do any of you clever folk use pipettes to measure and if so, please give me some pointers/tips on how to use them properly as I am about to stick them up the cat's a%$.*

This is the only reasonable explanation I could find but I'm still battling..








https://www.blckvapour.co.za/collections/accesories/products/copy-of-pipette-pump-4-piece-combo
https://www.blckvapour.co.za/collections/accesories/products/pipette-pump


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## boxerulez (12/8/16)

You fill it from concentrate up to the 0ml mark, drop out what you need into the mix, ie if you need 3 ml you release until the level drops to 3ml, and then release the balance back into concentrate container.

Reactions: Like 3


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## SAVaper (12/8/16)

I have never used these to measure. I use them to pull up and then dispense in to a jar on a scale (mixing by weight)
It looks as if the one in the picture is 10ml and it makes provision for the first ml in the tip section. So the 3,2ml is 9 8 7 (3ml) and ,2 the 2 lines like on a syringe.
Eg 4,6ml would be 9 8 7 6 and 6 lines.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Rude Rudi (12/8/16)

SAVaper said:


> I have never used these to measure. I use them to pull up and then dispense in to a jar on a scale (mixing by weight)
> It looks as if the one in the picture is 10ml and it makes provision for the first ml in the tip section. So the 3,2ml is 9 8 7 (3ml) and ,2 the 2 lines like on a syringe.
> Eg 4,6ml would be 9 8 7 6 and 6 lines.



You see the frustration!


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## Andre (12/8/16)

Yip, fill to zero and measure from there as you turn the wheel. 

I used those initially for my PG and Nic, but only for some flow control as I use a scale. Nowadays I use a little glass beaker (also from BlckVapour) for Nic and spouts (ValleyVapour) on my PG and VG bottles.

Reactions: Agree 3 | Winner 1


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## SAVaper (12/8/16)

Rude Rudi said:


> You see the frustration!



Jip. Get a scale


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## Rude Rudi (12/8/16)

boxerulez said:


> You fill it from concentrate up to the 0ml mark, drop out what you need into the mix, ie if you need 3 ml you release until the level drops to 3ml, and then release the balance back into concentrate container.



Ok, got it (sort of)!!! Will give it a shot...!!

Thanks!


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## Rude Rudi (12/8/16)

SAVaper said:


> Jip. Get a scale



I do use a scale but wanted to give this a shot - It somehow seemed more "authentic" than a scale...

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Rude Rudi (12/8/16)

Andre said:


> Yip, fill to zero and measure from there as you turn the wheel.
> 
> I used those initially for my PG and Nic, but only for some flow control as I use a scale. Nowadays I use a little glass beaker (also from BlckVapour) for Nic and spouts (ValleyVapour) on my PG and VG bottles.



Cool, thanks for the tips!
Also using spouts - the intention was to use the pipettes for the concentrates for more accuracy...


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## YeOldeOke (12/8/16)

If you haven't got a scale, Dischem sells 1ml and 3ml syringes that work reasonably well for small measurements. And they're cheap.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


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## SAVaper (12/8/16)

Rude Rudi said:


> I do use a scale but wanted to give this a shot - It somehow seemed more "authentic" than a scale...



Scale is the best and easy. When I mix 10ml batches for testing only I sometimes need so little of a flavour that I will use an insulin syringe for those. Also on some I stick to the basics like 1 drop per 10ml of Koolada and Menthol.
On bigger batches like 30 / 50 or 100ml the scale is perfect. If the scale measures to 2 decimal places it does not matter if the last digit is 1 or 2 over or under.


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## zadiac (12/8/16)

I use 10ml, 5ml and 1ml syringes. best way to mix in ml. Pipettes bring out the worst in me.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## boxerulez (12/8/16)

SAVaper said:


> Scale is the best and easy. When I mix 10ml batches for testing only I sometimes need so little of a flavour that I will use an insulin syringe for those. Also on some I stick to the basics like 1 drop per 10ml of Koolada and Menthol.
> On bigger batches like 30 / 50 or 100ml the scale is perfect. If the scale measures to 2 decimal places it does not matter if the last digit is 1 or 2 over or under.


What is the concentrate volumetric density compared to vg pg and nic?

Is a scale really reliable?


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## incredible_hullk (12/8/16)

YeOldeOke said:


> If you haven't got a scale, Dischem sells 1ml and 3ml syringes that work reasonably well for small measurements. And they're cheap.



I used to buy from Dischem until my wife starting buying them from Wespack Lifestyle...much cheaper

Reactions: Like 2


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## Andre (12/8/16)

boxerulez said:


> What is the concentrate volumetric density compared to vg pg and nic?
> 
> Is a scale really reliable?


You cannot get more accurate than a scale imo. The specific gravity differs per concentrate, but are typically between 0.93 g per ml to 1.07 g per ml. Seeing that it makes up a relatively small volume of your mix, most just use a value of 1 for all concentrates, but the real figure for PG, VG and Nic.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Cespian (12/8/16)

I stand corrected, but:

PG: 1ml = 1.038g
VG: 1ml = 1.26g
Nic in VG: 1ml = 1.235g

your concentrates will be in the region between PG and VG depending on the contents

Most online e-juice calculators will give you the weight per ingredient in your recipe. Agree with Andre, you cannot get more accurate than mixing by weight.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## Andre (12/8/16)

Cespian said:


> I stand corrected, but:
> 
> PG: 1ml = 1.038g
> VG: 1ml = 1.26g
> ...


Quite correct, except for the Nic - there it depends on the concentration of the Nic. A list and calculation method here.

Reactions: Like 1 | Thanks 2


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## RichJB (12/8/16)

Two factors to consider when measuring by weight:

1) Let's say that the recipe estimate of 1.036g for PG flavour is slightly off. Is it going to be as inaccurate as trying to measure the meniscus in a pipette or syringe with your eye?

2) The scale only reads what is in the mixing bottle and therefore in your juice. When you mix by volume, not all of the flavourant goes into the mixing bottle. Some stays in the syringe needle, or coating the inside of the syringe itself. When you rinse out a syringe after mixing, you will get a strong aroma of the flavour. That is flavourant that you measured out visually but which didn't make it into your juice.

That said, I think both methods are acceptably accurate. No doubt, HIC can taste the difference between 0.3 and 0.4g of a flavour in a juice. I can't.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Cespian (12/8/16)

Andre said:


> Quite correct, except for the Nic - there it depends on the concentration of the Nic. A list and calculation method here.



Thanks, forgot to mention thats 100mg/ml nicotine solution.


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## Andre (12/8/16)

RichJB said:


> Two factors to consider when measuring by weight:
> 
> 1) Let's say that the recipe estimate of 1.036g for PG flavour is slightly off. Is it going to be as inaccurate as trying to measure the meniscus in a pipette or syringe with your eye?
> 
> ...


Yip, I agree - both methods are accurate enough. But by weight is not only more accurate, but far easier. And it is the easier, less messy part that convinced me.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## SAVaper (12/8/16)

boxerulez said:


> What is the concentrate volumetric density compared to vg pg and nic?
> 
> Is a scale really reliable?



I agree with all above posts.
I personally use 1.036g/ml for all my flavours. Not that it makes a significant difference.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Greyz (12/8/16)

I can't emphasise enough how much better and easier it is to mix by weight. The only hard part is punching and configuring the grams per ml for the VG, PG, Nic etc. All easily available online. 
I use mostly TFA concentrates so to work out the average weight per ml, I simply copied everything to excel and ran average on the weight column. Profit 

I attached a pic of what my grams are set at. Google easily revealed the PG, VG and Nic but as I said I averaged tje weight of all TFA concentrates to get the flavours weight.






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Reactions: Like 3


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## Mike-r (15/8/16)

Greyz said:


> I can't emphasise enough how much better and easier it is to mix by weight. The only hard part is punching and configuring the grams per ml for the VG, PG, Nic etc. All easily available online.
> I use mostly TFA concentrates so to work out the average weight per ml, I simply copied everything to excel and ran average on the weight column. Profit
> 
> I attached a pic of what my grams are set at. Google easily revealed the PG, VG and Nic but as I said I averaged tje weight of all TFA concentrates to get the flavours weight.
> ...



Would you say that all concentrates weigh the same roughly. 


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## Greyz (15/8/16)

Mike-r said:


> Would you say that all concentrates weigh the same roughly.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


There are some that are quite a bit heavier than others but we're talking about 0.2 of a gram which isn't much at all.
I still have the spreadsheet on my laptop I can post if anyone else would like it.

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## Mike-r (16/8/16)

Greyz said:


> There are some that are quite a bit heavier than others but we're talking about 0.2 of a gram which isn't much at all.
> I still have the spreadsheet on my laptop I can post if anyone else would like it.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk



That will be awesome if you can mail it please. If its not an issue.

itsa@ive.co.za
Mike


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## Greyz (16/8/16)

Mike-r said:


> That will be awesome if you can mail it please. If its not an issue.
> 
> itsa@ive.co.za
> Mike



You have email buddy

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mike-r (17/8/16)

Thank bud. 


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## Ezekiel (17/8/16)

Mike-r said:


> Would you say that all concentrates weigh the same roughly.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



BTW, there is a general consensus among most DIY pros on Reddit, DIYorDIE or DIY forums to assume 1.0 g/ml for all PG-based concentrates, even though this isn't true. The reasoning is that, if taste is the final measure, it doesn't matter significantly what the actual specific gravity is of each concentrate. In other words, if someone presents a new recipe, and worked with 1.0 g/ml for all his concentrates, the reported %'s effectively takes into account the difference in actual specific gravity, and anybody can mix it accordingly without needing a table of each concentrate's specific gravity. For instance, let's say skiddzninja posts a new recipe reports 5% for Vienna cream at 1.0 g/ml (in other words, 0.5 ml or 0.5 g for 10 ml juice). The actual specific gravity might be closer to 1.1 g/ml, so in reality his 0.5 g of vienna cream is actually only 0.45 ml, or 4.5 %. But since he tasted his juice and (working with 1.0 g/ml) settled on a specific amount of Vienna Cream which is perfect for the juice, he could report it either as 5 % (at 1.0 g/ml) or 4.5 % (at 1.1 g/ml). It gives the same result, but the former is just so much easier to use, especially when sharing recipes. 

That said, as a chemist, this approach used to annoy the living crap out of me, since it means that the sum of your component volumes do not add up to your total volume (ie, for the previous example, 5 % Vienna Cream @ 1.0 g/ml and 95% PG @ 1.038 g/ml will give 9.95 ml instead of 10 ml when the correct specific gravity is used). However, the differences between the actual specific gravity and the assumed 1.0 g/ml of each concentrate is generally really small ( in the range of 0.95 to 1.05, I would guess), and it is really just much, much easier to assume 1.0 g/ml for each PG-based concentrate, and I pretty much just started to Dr Strangelove and love the bomb. The difference between PG and VG does become significant though.

You can always measure the specific gravity for each of your owned concentrates though, and is something I always say I will get to but never do.

Reactions: Like 3 | Informative 2


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## RichJB (17/8/16)

This is why I don't worry about exact weighing when mixing. People freak out because they added 1.54g of a flavour instead of the 1.49g that the recipe calculator specified. The calculator is in any case an approximation unless you have the exact specific gravity of that flavourant. So why fret over a tiny difference?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Ezekiel (17/8/16)

RichJB said:


> This is why I don't worry about exact weighing when mixing. People freak out because they added 1.54g of a flavour instead of the 1.49g that the recipe calculator specified. The calculator is in any case an approximation unless you have the exact specific gravity of that flavourant. So why fret over a tiny difference?



Because







It's bad man, it's bad.

That said, most people start to DIY using very small batches (5 ml to 10 ml), and then small mistakes (too little or too much) can sometimes be significant. (On the other hand, big mistakes on big batches also occur... like the way I mixed 50 ml yesterday using Nic-in-VG instead of plain VG... there was Silvering followed by crying).

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 4


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## Cespian (17/8/16)

Ezekiel said:


> Because
> 
> 
> 
> ...



OMG I'm dying here. Whoever paved like that deserves to knock their shins on every piece of furniture they walk by.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## RichJB (17/8/16)

One thing I can be sure of, whoever did that paving is on the bank's list of approved contractors for home insurance claims.

Ezekiel, that juice sounds excellent for late night sessions of watching Sharknado on DSTV. With a juice like that and several glasses of Chateau Cardboard, I could totally get into that movie.


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## Petrus (17/8/16)

That 


Ezekiel said:


> Because
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That must have been an expensive batch.


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## Ezekiel (17/8/16)

Im between 1 and 2 mg... so yeah, that was basically 32 mg. I ended up scaling up so as not to waste, so I have a massive supply of @Andre Mango Crack which he posted a few days ago. Luckily that juice rocks so all good.

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