# Help thread.



## supermoto (5/12/21)

With all the different types of knowledge that people have I thought a dedicated thread to ask for advice or help on various subjects would be good idea.
For example I need help from anyone who could assist me in locating a spring.
It is from a kids motorcycle that was made in the 70's so parts are not easy to find but as this is something that isn't a special part it shouldn't be too hard to find.. If you know where to look.
I'll post a few photos with rough sizes on them. I would appreciate any help, suggestions or tips on who would stock anything like this.
Thanks in advance

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## M.Adhir (5/12/21)

Looks almost like a handbrake return spring round on rear brake drums- check places that do brakes, especially reconditioning as they usually have boxes of old springs lying around

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## Angelskeeper (5/12/21)

As @M.Adhir said, otherwise look at the back brakes of a scooter, they have similiar if not identical springs

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## supermoto (5/12/21)

Scooter brakes may be an option. I'll have to find out if our nearest bike shop has anything. One of my problems is location. There is only one bike shop within 150km of us. We are in a small village about 25km from the nearest town and about 50 away from the nearest bike shop

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## DarthBranMuffin (5/12/21)

Front loader washingmachine/tumble dryer mountings, trampoline springs (cut to size), clutch plate springs... maybe one of those will work too.

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## Intuthu Kagesi (5/12/21)

supermoto said:


> With all the different types of knowledge that people have I thought a dedicated thread to ask for advice or help on various subjects would be good idea.
> For example I need help from anyone who could assist me in locating a spring.
> It is from a kids motorcycle that was made in the 70's so parts are not easy to find but as this is something that isn't a special part it shouldn't be too hard to find.. If you know where to look.
> I'll post a few photos with rough sizes on them. I would appreciate any help, suggestions or tips on who would stock anything like this.
> Thanks in advance



Simply get a pair of vice grips and or pliers and bend one "wrap" of the remaining spring, (on the "broken" end), by 90 degrees and your problem is resolved.
You would have shortened the spring by the thickness of the wire, and increased the tension by a factor of close to 9/8 or 1.125, (12.5%) ... assuming I counted the number of turns on that spring correctly.

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## supermoto (6/12/21)

Intuthu Kagesi said:


> Simply get a pair of vice grips and or pliers and bend one "wrap" of the remaining spring, (on the "broken" end), by 90 degrees and your problem is resolved.
> You would have shortened the spring by the thickness of the wire, and increased the tension by a factor of close to 9/8 or 1.125, (12.5%) ... assuming I counted the number of turns on that spring correctly.


I'll try this if I have to. Reason for not doing it straight away is that its part of the centrifugal clutch and I'm not sure if extra pressure would restrict the clutch from gripping properly. 
Its a good thought and it is something I've done before .

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## Intuthu Kagesi (6/12/21)

supermoto said:


> I'll try this if I have to. Reason for not doing it straight away is that its part of the centrifugal clutch and I'm not sure if extra pressure would restrict the clutch from gripping properly.
> Its a good thought and it is something I've done before .



What I suggested will shift the engagement point slightly higher on a centrifugal clutch, and you could "fine tune" it downwards again by either wedging a screwdriver between the coils and opening up one or two turns very slightly, or heating up a portion of it cherry red and allowing it to cool slowly.

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## supermoto (6/12/21)

That sounds like a good way forward. I'll give it a try later today

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## supermoto (6/12/21)

Ok. I tried... And failed.
As I started to bend the coil the spring split length ways. I suppose that the spring is almost 50 years old so its probably fatigued


Will have to go on a hunt now for a new one.

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## Intuthu Kagesi (6/12/21)

supermoto said:


> Ok. I tried... And failed.
> As I started to bend the coil the spring split length ways. I suppose that the spring is almost 50 years old so its probably fatigued
> View attachment 245724
> 
> Will have to go on a hunt now for a new one.



That's a pity  ... back to the drawing board ... Not sure about your neck of the woods, but the local Midas nearby in Edenvale has a box of assorted springs that I've been known to scratch in from time to time ... as does the local Builders Warehouse ... Do you have something similar near you?

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## supermoto (8/12/21)

We do have a small midas not too far but the nearest builders or decent hardware store is 150 km away. We have discovered that a chainsaw clutch may be similar so we're going to ask the local stihl dealer to look

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## Intuthu Kagesi (8/12/21)

supermoto said:


> We do have a small midas not too far but the nearest builders or decent hardware store is 150 km away. We have discovered that a chainsaw clutch may be similar so we're going to ask the local stihl dealer to look



You may have to soften the chainsaw spring a lil' ... my chainsaw only engages when the engine is revving pretty close to maximum RPM 

You can do that easily enough by heating the coil cherry red and then tossing it into OLD engine oil and leaving it there until it's cooled, (_this will case harden it / providing a tough skin_), then reheat it again until it just turns blue NOT red, and allow it to cool slowly, which will make it malleable, as apposed brittle, (_your original spring was brittle and split_).

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## Resistance (8/12/21)

supermoto said:


> We do have a small midas not too far but the nearest builders or decent hardware store is 150 km away. We have discovered that a chainsaw clutch may be similar so we're going to ask the local stihl dealer to look



Old distributor might have that same spring inside.
it's for high RPMS.

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## Resistance (8/12/21)

If you do decide to heat treat a spring. Take a metal cap from a jar and fill it with oil. Toss the spring inside heat up the oil and set it alight. Leave it till it burns out and cools completely. This takes a while so do it in a safe spot. Maybe an outside braai.

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## Intuthu Kagesi (8/12/21)

Resistance said:


> If you do decide to heat treat a spring. Take a metal cap from a jar and fill it with oil. Toss the spring inside heat up the oil and set it alight. Leave it till it burns out and cools completely. This takes a while so do it in a safe spot. Maybe an outside braai.


It's easier using old engine oil, (_the blacker the better_), as it's the carbon that does the work here, the oil is both a carrier for the carbon and helps stabilise cooling ... your suggestion does work, however it take a while longer, as it relies on a concurrent forming of carbon in the oil and the heating of the spring, to which the hardened skin will be notably thinner due to the much reduced temperature(s) ... either way ... it must be followed by reheating to blue, and allowed to cool slowly.

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## Resistance (9/12/21)

Intuthu Kagesi said:


> It's easier using old engine oil, (_the blacker the better_), as it's the carbon that does the work here, the oil is both a carrier for the carbon and helps stabilise cooling ... your suggestion does work, however it take a while longer, as it relies on a concurrent forming of carbon in the oil and the heating of the spring, to which the hardened skin will be notably thinner due to the much reduced temperature(s) ... either way ... it must be followed by reheating to blue, and allowed to cool slowly.


I also don't have that amount of patience

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## Resistance (9/12/21)

Intuthu Kagesi said:


> It's easier using old engine oil, (_the blacker the better_), as it's the carbon that does the work here, the oil is both a carrier for the carbon and helps stabilise cooling ... your suggestion does work, however it take a while longer, as it relies on a concurrent forming of carbon in the oil and the heating of the spring, to which the hardened skin will be notably thinner due to the much reduced temperature(s) ... either way ... it must be followed by reheating to blue, and allowed to cool slowly.


This is an all in one deal. No need to anneal again. I learnt this trick from a gunsmith.

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## supermoto (11/12/21)

Found a pair of springs last night that were almost identical to the original ones, length, wire size and diameter. Fitted them threw the engine back together and put it in the bike. It worked fine. The bike is now back with its owner. 
Thanks everyone for all suggestions and tips.

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