# Clones Sub-Forum?



## Daniel (22/6/17)

I think as with certain other sub-forums , maybe it's a good idea to create a separate sub-forum for all things related to clones (bar juices of course ).

...and this is not a thread to be keyboard warriors so just vote and let's see.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## andro (22/6/17)

IMO make sense .
At the beginning in the forum wasn't such a big deal . All of us would talk about anything but now look like people get offended if you put a clone into authentic etc etc etc.
It would make it much easier to dont get posts deleted or moved .
And much less anymosity or derailed tread in a HE vs LE converstation that is already been exhausted imo .
Just my 2 cents

Reactions: Agree 2


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## RichJB (22/6/17)

Separate forums aren't much help imo if there is no function to filter forums. Maybe I'm the exception but I almost never visit individual sub-forums. Instead, I go by what is on the "Vaping Discussion" and "Supporting Vendors" pages. However, there is no way (that I know of) to control or filter what appears on those pages. I find it frustrating to click on a thread for a new device and to then find that it costs R5k and is of no interest to me. Similarly I would guess that it frustrates HE vapers to click on a thread only to find that it is about a clone product that they will never buy on principle. 

Having a clone sub-forum and a way to filter what appears on the Vaping Discussion tab, i.e. that you can set it to "ignore" new threads and posts in selected forums, would help to refine what we see. It would also help those who only vape commercial juice, for eg, to filter out all the DIY threads which probably aren't of any interest to them. I don't know if it's technically feasible but it's a function I would use a lot.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Cespian (22/6/17)

RichJB said:


> Separate forums aren't much help imo if there is no function to filter forums. Maybe I'm the exception but I almost never visit individual sub-forums. Instead, I go by what is on the "Vaping Discussion" and "Supporting Vendors" pages. However, there is no way (that I know of) to control or filter what appears on those pages. I find it frustrating to click on a thread for a new device and to then find that it costs R5k and is of no interest to me. Similarly I would guess that it frustrates HE vapers to click on a thread only to find that it is about a clone product that they will never buy on principle.
> 
> Having a clone sub-forum and a way to filter what appears on the Vaping Discussion tab, i.e. that you can set it to "ignore" new threads and posts in selected forums, would help to refine what we see. It would also help those who only vape commercial juice, for eg, to filter out all the DIY threads which probably aren't of any interest to them. I don't know if it's technically feasible but it's a function I would use a lot.



I like this. Very similar to Quora. You subscribe to "topics" and only those you've selected will pop up in your feed.

It creates division though, but rather division by choice than caused by animosity.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## blujeenz (22/6/17)

Probably a good idea, like a safe space.

Reactions: Funny 5


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## Rob Fisher (22/6/17)

I don't really see the need for a separate section for clones because they are discussed pretty much everywhere except the High End section.

Reactions: Useful 1


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## skola (22/6/17)

Rob Fisher said:


> I don't really see the need for a separate section for clones because they are discussed pretty much everywhere except the High End section.


Which begs the question, why?
If a Goon 1.5 clone can be discussed in a Goon 1.5 thread than why not a BB clone in a BB thread. I don't see the difference in this.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Lee (22/6/17)

Rob Fisher said:


> I don't really see the need for a separate section for clones because they are discussed pretty much everywhere except the High End section.


Maybe a HIGH END sub-forum???

Reactions: Like 1


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## Lee (22/6/17)

skola said:


> Which begs the question, why?
> If a Goon 1.5 clone can be discussed in a Goon 1.5 thread than why not a BB clone in a BB thread. I don't see the difference in this.


Thank you @skola

Reactions: Like 1


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## skola (22/6/17)

Lee said:


> Maybe a HIGH END sub-forum???


There is one already 
That's why maybe a clone sub forum would actually make sense.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Rob Fisher (22/6/17)

Lee said:


> Maybe a HIGH END sub-forum???



There is one @Lee. https://www.ecigssa.co.za/forums/he-high-end-gear/


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## craigb (22/6/17)

No. In my opinion all sides of the clone Vs auth / HE Vs not HE arguments need to pull their heads out of their own asses and grow up about the topic. 

Reasonable adults should be able to appreciate that the other side of the argument has reasons to believe or say what they believe or say and to paraphrase Forrest Gump, "if you can't add something constructive, then STFU" 

Most of the time the discussions start of reasonable and interesting but then someone gets their back up at some small or imagined slight and goes nuclear. 

The only reason I could fathom for having a clones section is if there are issues which only affect clones.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 6 | Funny 1


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## Lee (22/6/17)

Rob Fisher said:


> There is one @Lee. https://www.ecigssa.co.za/forums/he-high-end-gear/


Yes... but post all high end gear there... not amongst the "common" gear threads


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## Lee (22/6/17)

Sorry @Rob Fisher I retract all my posts in this thread. I rather don't want to get involved (even though I might have already)!
Life is too short to worry about this k@k.

Reactions: Like 1 | Thanks 1


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## Daniel (22/6/17)

Guys , let your vote speak , if you have nothing constructive to say then like my esteemed forumite @craigb stated STFU.

@Rob Fisher @Silver if the vote is positive what is the process for applying ?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Scott (22/6/17)

RichJB said:


> Separate forums aren't much help imo if there is no function to filter forums. Maybe I'm the exception but I almost never visit individual sub-forums. Instead, I go by what is on the "Vaping Discussion" and "Supporting Vendors" pages. However, there is no way (that I know of) to control or filter what appears on those pages. I find it frustrating to click on a thread for a new device and to then find that it costs R5k and is of no interest to me. Similarly I would guess that it frustrates HE vapers to click on a thread only to find that it is about a clone product that they will never buy on principle.
> 
> Having a clone sub-forum and a way to filter what appears on the Vaping Discussion tab, i.e. that you can set it to "ignore" new threads and posts in selected forums, would help to refine what we see. It would also help those who only vape commercial juice, for eg, to filter out all the DIY threads which probably aren't of any interest to them. I don't know if it's technically feasible but it's a function I would use a lot.


I think the key words used "won't buy on principle". For a number of us the genuine article is simply out of financial reach and we desperately want to test and try out new gear. This is not a dark sinister black market affair. The clones are openly advertised and made available by reputable vendors. You know exactly what you buying from the moment you indicate an interest in the product. This is not a knock-off product sold from a shady character behind the refuse bins in the Spar car-park. My 50c worth.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## DanielSLP (22/6/17)

andro said:


> And much less anymosity or derailed tread in a HE vs LE converstation that is already been exhausted imo .


This forum is becoming exhausting

Reactions: Agree 1


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## BioHAZarD (22/6/17)

craigb said:


> No. In my opinion all sides of the clone Vs auth / HE Vs not HE arguments need to pull their heads out of their own asses and grow up about the topic.
> 
> Reasonable adults should be able to appreciate that the other side of the argument has reasons to believe or say what they believe or say and to paraphrase Forrest Gump, "if you can't add something constructive, then STFU"
> 
> ...


I second this


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## Scott (22/6/17)

Then don't read it. This is a sensitive issue for many of us and peoples feelings should be ventilated and tolerated whether you agree with them or not.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## BioHAZarD (22/6/17)

I really need to post some clone pics in the HE thread 

where is this going to end? will we only be happy once there is a "HE what's in your had thread"

if you must have sub-forums then go for it - but restricting what you can talk abt in that sub-forum is UTTER CRAP

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## BumbleBee (22/6/17)

I don't see any advantage to dividing up the forum any further, it's already starting to feel somewhat hostile around here. This is a forum for vapers, we all vape, it's the one thing that brings us all together in a world where most of us wouldn't even look each other in the eye on the streets, let alone interact with each other.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 6 | Winner 3


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## Deckie (22/6/17)

Everything has it's place & the open moderation should be evenly spread.e I agree members shouldn't be offensive towards each other and consideration & understanding should be adopted. 99% of vapers on this forum cannot afford expensive gear but wish to & have a right to try top rated RTA/RDA's even it is a clone, that's what they can afford - judging them for that is totally unfair. Remember it's not us or the vendors who make the clones & many members who only buy HE gear now, started off using clones yet now condemn them. That's what actually infuriates me in the whole Authentic/ clone debate. It is simple - each to he's own.

Reactions: Agree 3 | Winner 4


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## mad_hatter (22/6/17)

one would think the piles of cash the HE guys have would insulate them from hurt feelings over seeing the word Clone in their threads


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## Andre (22/6/17)

In my most humble opinion there should neither be a HE nor a Clone section. Both are polarizing per se. All of the threads under the HE section can easily be accommodated under other topics. The structure of the forum should be as non-specific as possible - create a home for all. I have learnt this painful lesson with the Reoville subforum, which (in hindsight) should have been the generic Squonkville from the start or slotted in with the general structure. Sure, the arguments will continue, but at least Ecigssa will be neutral. 

Threads are another matter as they are member created. If you feel the need to have a separate thread for a specific clone under RDAs (for example), go right ahead. The same applies to authentics.

Of course, there will always be members who like to needle. Discipline yourself to ignore those posts. If they become personal, use the report button - do not respond at all, certainly not in anger.

As an aside - is it not time for a RDTA section?

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 11 | Winner 8 | Thanks 1


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## boxerulez (22/6/17)

skola said:


> Which begs the question, why?
> If a Goon 1.5 clone can be discussed in a Goon 1.5 thread than why not a BB clone in a BB thread. I don't see the difference in this.


Agreed. Because a agreed click simply would not suffice.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


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## Yagya (22/6/17)

I also dont see the need for any separation here.
When HE gear gets posted here, I'm like WOW, awesome!! and i drool over it a while but then move on. 
We need to be happy for others who can afford and who is brave enough to buy HE gear.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## boxerulez (22/6/17)

What if I wanted to post a Clone on top of a Kodama? Ahh yes, ok the Kodama is not Expensive enough to offend anyway.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## RichJB (22/6/17)

I think the belief that vapers are a community is an outmoded notion now. It may have been true back in the day when 0.1% of the population were vaping and everybody was an enthusiast messing around with mechs and silica wicks and whatnot. Nowadays it is no more a community than beer-drinkers or gun-owners or rugby watchers or 4X4 drivers are a community. So the "we need to stand together as a community and agree on things" sentiment is not tenable. People vape for a variety of reasons and they are interested by different aspects of vaping. Divisions have occurred naturally and there will be natural antipathy, if not outright hostility, between different groups. We even see intra-group hostility. Kreed's VHM DIY group are at loggerheads with Wayne's DoD group, and so on.

It is clear that clones are a red rag to some, and 'elitist' HE gear is a red rag to others. Appealing for calm isn't going to help. One might as well appeal to Hillary supporters to stop ragging on Trump, and Trump supporters to stop ragging on Hillary. Ain't gonna happen. People are what they are and they do what they do. "Stay calm and let's all be friends" will only get you so far.

The best one can hope for is "live and let live". But that is a lot easier to accomplish when filters are in place. If people want to race quad bikes on Sundays, that is fine by me. When they do it up and down the river bank outside my property, it's in my face and therefore harder to ignore. It's easier for me to "live and let live" when there is the filter that the quad bikers are out of sight and out of earshot.

In the social media age, we are gravitating towards "echo chambers", social media groups where like-minded souls convene and won't be triggered by contrary views. If you have a generic "US politics" forum, it will be a spittle-flecked flamebait warzone within seconds. So instead Trump supporters congregate in Trump FB groups, and Dems in Dem FB groups.

It may sound intolerant and it is, but people are triggered by the most innocuous things. Much of this forum is hand-checks, they are among the most popular threads. If you post a hand-check on the DIY sub-Reddit, the post will be deleted. If you do it again, you will be banned. It is a red rag to some. I hear @Andre's point that the forum should be a home to all. But allowing people to filter their feeds does no harm imo. I can't stand tricking for example. I am happy to let live and give trickers their space. But if there are five new trick video threads at the top of Vape Discussions every time I log in, it starts to grate. It means that it's pushing other threads (which I may be more interested in) off the front page, and I now have to go and search for them. Giving me the option to filter all Tricking sub-forum threads (if there was one) off the main page tailors the content to my interests and makes me happier. Likewise, a tricker can filter out me waffling about DIY and get more tricking threads on his feed. We are both happier because neither of us is in the other's face.

It doesn't mean that any group is not allowed to discuss their interest or that any group is favoured. It just makes it easier to "live and let live" when other people's interests aren't visible. It also doesn't mean that you have to apply the filter. Anybody who wants to see all threads on all topics is free to do so.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 7 | Thanks 1


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## Chukin'Vape (22/6/17)

RichJB said:


> I think the belief that vapers are a community is an outmoded notion now. It may have been true back in the day when 0.1% of the population were vaping and everybody was an enthusiast messing around with mechs and silica wicks and whatnot. Nowadays it is no more a community than beer-drinkers or gun-owners or rugby watchers or 4X4 drivers are a community. So the "we need to stand together as a community and agree on things" sentiment is not tenable. People vape for a variety of reasons and they are interested by different aspects of vaping. Divisions have occurred naturally and there will be natural antipathy, if not outright hostility, between different groups. We even see intra-group hostility. Kreed's VHM DIY group are at loggerheads with Wayne's DoD group, and so on.
> 
> It is clear that clones are a red rag to some, and 'elitist' HE gear is a red rag to others. Appealing for calm isn't going to help. One might as well appeal to Hillary supporters to stop ragging on Trump, and Trump supporters to stop ragging on Hillary. Ain't gonna happen. People are what they are and they do what they do. "Stay calm and let's all be friends" will only get you so far.
> 
> ...


I could not agree more with what @RichJB is saying here - ultimately we all love vaping, so allow us to filter what we are not interested in. You might actually find that the hostility will simmer down. I would hate a thread about a authentic, being overrun by clone related comments - they should have a separate thread, not to divide them - but to keep the information more relevant.


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## Daniel (22/6/17)

Chukin'Vape said:


> I could not agree more with what @RichJB is saying here - ultimately we all love vaping, so allow us to filter what we are not interested in. You might actually find that the hostility will simmer down. I would hate a thread about a authentic, being overrun by clone related comments - they should have a separate thread, not to divide them - but to keep the information more relevant.



Hence my suggestion create a sub-forum , not sure of the technology behind the forum but surely filters can be implemented.

Manage the forum , not the people on it .....

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Deckie (22/6/17)

Vaping has evolved to such an extent that maybe it's time for the forum to evolve as well. The community has grown, people's needs, wants as well opinions have changed along with technology in leaps and bounds. The playing fields have grown so much so that the field has become over crowded. It's like starting, for instance a soccer club, in the beginning the club is so small that 6 y/o's & adults play & practice together and as the club grows more space is need and eventually age groups have to be separated, hence more fields.

Who could have imagined 2 years ago we would be where we are today. Even last year at VapeCon HE was not known to us, we were all just Vapers chasing what's available through the local vendors or placing orders through Fasttech, 3Fvape, Gearbest & such, waiting patiently for up to 3 months for our assortment of mods, RTA's, RDA's and all the other crap that caught our eyes, even though we didn't really need it. Now we have HE, Clones and the mass produced kits, mods, RTA's, RDTA's & RDA's from well known Chinese companies such as Smok, eLeaf, Wismec etc .... we have choice which 2 years ago would have boggled our minds.

So just an idea, isn't it maybe time the forum evolved to accommodate everyone along with differing opinions, wants, needs, ideas and tastes?

My humble opinion.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## craigb (22/6/17)

"because feelings" is not an good enough reason. 

What specific problems or issues do users of clone goods have that are specific to clones? (assholes amongst "purists" doesn't count because douchebags appear in every subculture) 

I would rather say if HE pisses you off, or if clones yank at your toenails... Then ignore the thread. Don't click on it.

Putting discussion about clones into a different sub forum isn't going to stop antagonists from seeing and replying to the threads. They are still going to dive in, fling poo and leave everyone behind covered in excrement. 

As a generalization, some people are extremely thin skinned and overreact at the slightest hint that a comment can be interpreted against them. 

Maybe we all need to take a break, load up on juice and have a vape while considering the difference between straw man and steel man arguments. 

Always try and interpret the other argument in the best possible light, and reply as such. That way, the overall discussion is beneficial to everyone that views the thread and we are able to have constructive debate on any topic without being divisive or spiteful.

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 1


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## Cespian (22/6/17)

craigb said:


> As a generalization, some people are extremely thin skinned



Nicotine will degrade faster in VG

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 6


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## Scott (22/6/17)

RichJB said:


> I think the belief that vapers are a community is an outmoded notion now. It may have been true back in the day when 0.1% of the population were vaping and everybody was an enthusiast messing around with mechs and silica wicks and whatnot. Nowadays it is no more a community than beer-drinkers or gun-owners or rugby watchers or 4X4 drivers are a community. So the "we need to stand together as a community and agree on things" sentiment is not tenable. People vape for a variety of reasons and they are interested by different aspects of vaping. Divisions have occurred naturally and there will be natural antipathy, if not outright hostility, between different groups. We even see intra-group hostility. Kreed's VHM DIY group are at loggerheads with Wayne's DoD group, and so on.
> 
> It is clear that clones are a red rag to some, and 'elitist' HE gear is a red rag to others. Appealing for calm isn't going to help. One might as well appeal to Hillary supporters to stop ragging on Trump, and Trump supporters to stop ragging on Hillary. Ain't gonna happen. People are what they are and they do what they do. "Stay calm and let's all be friends" will only get you so far.
> 
> ...


I personally don't believe there is any place on a forum such as this for moderation simply because it doesn't fit into your class or "principle" notion of what's acceptable. Surely we all entitled to voice an opinion or be proud of our gear if that's what we can afford. Moderate and sanction severe vulgarity, pornography, or illegal activity. I believe we should be treated as adults and the heavy-handed and unilateral enforcement of often arbitrary censorship which is vested in an elite few be reduced significantly.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## craigb (22/6/17)

Cespian said:


> Nicotine will degrade faster in VG




Repeating it doesn't make it relevant

Reactions: Funny 4


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## Deckie (22/6/17)

Cespian said:


> Nicotine will degrade faster in VG


Precisely

Reactions: Like 1


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## Alex (22/6/17)

To be honest, I'm really sick to death of the entire HE vs Clone thing on this forum. 

In reality nobody else gives a damn what device you have in your hand, and new things are coming out all the time, so all the "new toys" are old news in two months anyway. Lets just get past this stupid argument. 

*Every *vaping device that keeps you from smoking, is freaking high end in my book.

Reactions: Like 5 | Agree 1 | Winner 8


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## Gersh (22/6/17)

*posts hand check / vape gear 

"Authentic or clone" 

Authentic bud 

"NICE!" 

....How many times have you seen someone congratulate someone else because their gear it's not a clone. And if the reply is "clone" the next general response is "how's it compared to the authentic" #sigh ... 

this way of thinking won't stop unfortunately 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Reactions: Agree 2


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## BioHAZarD (22/6/17)

Post what you want where u want without being rude and then give the [USERGROUP=3]@Admins[/USERGROUP] crap for the subsequent deletion. they will get the message eventually.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Stosta (22/6/17)

BioHAZarD said:


> Post what you want where u want and then give the [USERGROUP=3]@Admins[/USERGROUP] crap for the subsequent deletion. they will get the message eventually.


What's the message?


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## BioHAZarD (22/6/17)

Stosta said:


> What's the message?


sorry made a quick edit there.

the frustration stems from not being able to saying anything in a HE forum abt a clone I think as it is seen as promoting a clone in the HE forum

I could be wrong but I have seen some deletions based on that. no trying to derail OP's thread 

I do however pick up that most have no issue with throwing HE and non-HE together?

if I am missing the point feel free to flame away


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## Amir (22/6/17)

Deckie said:


> Vaping has evolved to such an extent that maybe it's time for the forum to evolve as well. The community has grown, people's needs, wants as well opinions have changed along with technology in leaps and bounds. The playing fields have grown so much so that the field has become over crowded. It's like starting, for instance a soccer club, in the beginning the club is so small that 6 y/o's & adults play & practice together and as the club grows more space is need and eventually age groups have to be separated, hence more fields.
> 
> Who could have imagined 2 years ago we would be where we are today. Even last year at VapeCon HE was not known to us, we were all just Vapers chasing what's available through the local vendors or placing orders through Fasttech, 3Fvape, Gearbest & such, waiting patiently for up to 3 months for our assortment of mods, RTA's, RDA's and all the other crap that caught our eyes, even though we didn't really need it. Now we have HE, Clones and the mass produced kits, mods, RTA's, RDTA's & RDA's from well known Chinese companies such as Smok, eLeaf, Wismec etc .... we have choice which 2 years ago would have boggled our minds.
> 
> ...



Spot on there @Deckie


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## Stosta (22/6/17)

Seeing as this thread is clearly no longer specifically about developing a clone sub-forum, I'll just throw this in here as well.

If someone continuously irritates you, you can click on their profile, and click ignore, and like a Harry Potter movie, magic happens, and you don't see anymore of them!

There's just so much baiting and trolling and arguing going on at the moment that very little actually get discussed. I've lost so many good friends on this forum because they grew tired of the constant bickering. This isn't some Bruce Willis movie, you're all adults, try act accordingly?

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 5 | Winner 3


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## Amir (22/6/17)

Stosta said:


> Seeing as this thread is clearly no longer specifically about developing a clone sub-forum, I'll just throw this in here as well.
> 
> If someone continuously irritates you, you can click on their profile, and click ignore, and like a Harry Potter movie, magic happens, and you don't see anymore of them!
> 
> There's just so much baiting and trolling and arguing going on at the moment that very little actually get discussed. I've lost so many good friends on this forum because they grew tired of the constant bickering. This isn't some Bruce Willis movie, you're all adults, try act accordingly?



What's your issue with uncle Brucie?

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Roodt (22/6/17)

WhenI joined this forum more than a year ago, I did so to gather information and see what was available in the SA vaping market. I was seeking information from first hand user experience, i found that in abundance. I also found that there was items within my reach financially and items that were not, I enquired more about the items that were within financial availability, and so made informed decisions on my purchases. 
As of late i have noticed (after absence from the forum for some time) that is still the general use of the forum, a place for vapers to discuss vaping and vaping goods. There is more attention towards the more expensive and exotic items, but such is life. We all dream of a exotic sports car or something of similar exclusivity, it's human nature, it is in us. 
Classifying the people on the forum based on what they have, rather than what value they can add to the forum seems to be what is going wrong here.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 3


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## Puff the Magic Dragon (22/6/17)

Amir said:


> What's your issue with uncle Brucie?



It's a slippery slope. What next ? Someone saying something negative about Chuck Norris movies ?


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## SmokeyJoe (22/6/17)

Puff the Magic Dragon said:


> It's a slippery slope. What next ? Someone saying something negative about Chuck Norris movies ?
> View attachment 99031


No one would dare . . .


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## Roodt (22/6/17)

SmokeyJoe said:


> No one would dare . . .


Speaking of which... what would be the Chuck Norris of vapes? Mod and tank or combo...


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## SmokeyJoe (22/6/17)



Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 1 | Funny 3


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## BioHAZarD (22/6/17)

Roodt said:


> Speaking of which... what would be the Chuck Norris of vapes? Mod and tank or combo...


Would have to be the crappiest mod and atty known to man but in the hands of Chuck it would outperform anything in the HE world  

Sent from my Note 4

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Roodt (22/6/17)

BioHAZarD said:


> Would have to be the crappiest mod and atty known to man but in the hands of Chuck it would outperform anything in the HE world
> 
> Sent from my Note 4



As true as that might be, this has me thinking now...

What vape goodies resemble what celebrity's, for whatever reason??


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## Puff the Magic Dragon (22/6/17)



Reactions: Funny 1


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## andro (22/6/17)

Or i just thought about this now ...... why dont we do like in the past of kayfun and russian were we would just discuss it in 1 tread clone or not . without moving post or other stuff . In the italian forum that i am work like that . U just say kayfun etc etc etc . and if u need help or something go more into details . 
@Rob Fisher @Silver as admins what do u think ?

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## Amir (22/6/17)

Puff the Magic Dragon said:


> It's a slippery slope. What next ? Someone saying something negative about Chuck Norris movies ?
> 
> View attachment 99031



Good luck to that guy... chuck is an authentic... Segal is a clone 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Amir (22/6/17)

Roodt said:


> Speaking of which... what would be the Chuck Norris of vapes? Mod and tank or combo...



Cuboid with kylin V1


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DoubleD (22/6/17)

Roodt said:


> Speaking of which... what would be the Chuck Norris of vapes? Mod and tank or combo...



No question the Reo Grand

Reactions: Agree 2


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## SmokeyJoe (22/6/17)

Roodt said:


> Speaking of which... what would be the Chuck Norris of vapes? Mod and tank or combo...


Twisp clearo kicking out 500W and the tears of babies as e-liquid


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## craigb (22/6/17)

Amir said:


> Cuboid with kylin V1
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Doesn't matter what hardware he uses, The Chuck roundhouse kicks 100 mg nic (PG based) in the throat.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Scouse45 (22/6/17)

So jus a small question but these threads r getting so detailed I've lost track completely. I understand and respect that threads jus stay mostly on topic. Much like in any HE thread non HE talk gets removed. Then in the same light half of this talk on this thread should b removed. These threads r becoming to bombarded with all kinds of discussions. @Daniel started this thread for simply a vote and being decent about it and now it's about wat mod would chuck Norris be?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Deckie (22/6/17)

Yip agree with @Scouse45 , any other discussion they would be moved or deleted but I suppose it depends how serious influential members take it. Shame & a pity.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## DoubleD (22/6/17)

I still maintain that the term HE & LE should be banned from use on the forum lol #ForumDivisionMustFall #Adultscantadult #BuyWhatYouCanDallaWhatYouMust

Reactions: Winner 3 | Funny 3


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## E.T. (22/6/17)

The forum is allready (and will be )devided in any case so why not create a LE sub forum.


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## SmokeyJoe (22/6/17)

Scouse45 said:


> So jus a small question but these threads r getting so detailed I've lost track completely. I understand and respect that threads jus stay mostly on topic. Much like in any HE thread non HE talk gets removed. Then in the same light half of this talk on this thread should b removed. These threads r becoming to bombarded with all kinds of discussions. @Daniel started this thread for simply a vote and being decent about it and now it's about wat mod would chuck Norris be?


Im sorry, here i need to put my foot down. Ive been a member of this forum for some time and never posted anything controversial. But isnt this forum supposed to be fun? Isnt vaping supposed to be fun? We as vapers do what we do IMO to live longer and to enjoy the hell out of it while we do so. This forum has become WAY to serious, instead of sitting back and enjoying the ride. I am alive today as a result of vaping my lungs collapsed almost 4 years ago due to 2 packs a day. And dammit, if i want to post a pic of Mr Norris vaping, i bloody hell will do so. I love vaping, i love waking up in the morning and be able to breath, i love the thought knowing I wil be there when my 2 kids get married one day and give me the chance to be the weird grandpa pulling pranks on my grandkids. I personally feel this forum is taking itself too serious. Bloody hell people, just see what we have accomplished, live life and post as much Chuck Norris pics as you want. LIFE IS TOO SHORT

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 5 | Can relate 1


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## BioHAZarD (22/6/17)

andro said:


> Or i just thought about this now ...... why dont we do like in the past of kayfun and russian were we would just discuss it in 1 tread clone or not . without moving post or other stuff . In the italian forum that i am work like that . U just say kayfun etc etc etc . and if u need help or something go more into details .
> @Rob Fisher @Silver as admins what do u think ?


Totally agree

Sent from my Note 4


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## BioHAZarD (22/6/17)

@Daniel i think you need to change the poll to whether the members feel that clones and non clones / he - non he can be discussed together

Sent from my Note 4

Reactions: Agree 1


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## KZOR (22/6/17)

Roodt said:


> what would be the Chuck Norris of vapes?



Chuck created the first vape device, as can be seen on the photo. But he was so afraid of becoming a legend in yet another field that he destroyed it.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Funny 4


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## Amir (22/6/17)

KZOR said:


> Chuck created the first vape device, as can be seen on the photo. But he was so afraid of becoming a legend in yet another field that he destroyed it.
> View attachment 99047



Looks like a goon clone tho


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Amir (22/6/17)

craigb said:


> Doesn't matter what hardware he uses, The Chuck roundhouse kicks 100 mg nic (PG based) in the throat.



That's nothing. @Silver uses that as his daily driver 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Gersh (22/6/17)

craigb said:


> Doesn't matter what hardware he uses, The Chuck roundhouse kicks 100 mg nic (PG based) in the throat.



At least because I heard nicotine degrades faster in VG


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## Kuhlkatz (23/6/17)

My vote : No. - Are we going to discuss the merits of an SXK clone vs an HCigar clone vs a generic ABC 'styled' clone and insist on separate threads or sub-sections for each one too ? There are likely just too many to want to categorize each of them.

Would you discuss you tuned-up Vee-Dub Golf in a Porsche sub-forum, just because you have a set of Michelins in common ? Is your entry level B-class Benz really the same level as the AMG F1, since both are by Mercedes Benz and they both share technology from the Formula 1 engineering team ?
Leave the Porches where they belong, and discuss your VW where the other are discussing theirs. Tuned, stock, second-hand or brand spanking new, it still does the same thing. It gets you from point A to point B.

My opinion: If you cannot constructively contribute to any thread, just steer clear of it. Simple. Repeat after me - 'Walk away...'
Leave the 'HE showcases' if it offends you. Do not turn into an a-class a-hole and post irrelevant crap that you know will offend someone else. Grow a pair and/or grow up. At the very least, try to act like a grown-up, no matter what your inner child is telling you to do. Just don't be THAT guy.

I am just soooo over all of this constant nagging, digging & trolling. It's becoming a ball-ache, or should I say bawl-ache ?
You are only letting the HE vs non-HE or Clone vs Authentic debates polarize you into a specific camp because you WANT it to. The rest of the majority doesn't give a hoot either way, but we still have to share this sandbox with you. Try to accommodate us too, please?

EDIT : Just for clarity - this is a stab in general, not aimed at the OP. If the shoe fits...

Reactions: Agree 3 | Thanks 1


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## Amir (23/6/17)

Kuhlkatz said:


> My vote : No. - Are we going to discuss the merits of an SXK clone vs an HCigar clone vs a generic ABC 'styled' clone and insist on separate threads or sub-sections for each one too ? There are likely just too many to want to categorize each of them.
> 
> Would you discuss you tuned-up Vee-Dub Golf in a Porsche sub-forum, just because you have a set of Michelins in common ? Is your entry level B-class Benz really the same level as the AMG F1, since both are by Mercedes Benz and they both share technology from the Formula 1 engineering team ?
> Leave the Porches where they belong, and discuss your VW where the other are discussing theirs. Tuned, stock, second-hand or brand spanking new, it still does the same thing. It gets you from point A to point B.
> ...



Shoe doesn't fit... can we maybe try a different size please? 

Jokes aside... I completely agree. It's only a small number of members out of the vast majority that are getting involved in this argument which isn't even a HE-LE debate per se... it's a clone vs authentic situation going on here. 

I, for one, go between the authentic and clone threads using equally good advice from either to the betterment of my vape. Is separate threads not division enough? I understand it's necessary to keep the the thread separate but a sub forum would be defeating the purpose of this forum in its entirety. We are all here to be united as vapers... not united but segregated. 


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Reactions: Like 1


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## Strontium (23/6/17)

The issues run deeper than clone vs authentic. There are a set of rules for some and a completely different set of rules for the rest. You can disagree if you like but just look at this thread, would this have been allowed in Hand Check or any similar thread? Bet not, admin would have been all over it like flies on........you get my drift.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## RichJB (23/6/17)

Amir said:


> I understand it's necessary to keep the the thread separate but a sub forum would be defeating the purpose of this forum in its entirety.



Why? Discounting the vendor sub-forums, we have over 50 different sub-forums as it is. If I'm having a problem with the fire button on my 300W mod, do I put it in My Vape Broke, Ask a Vape Veteran or High Wattage Devices? If I find an article claiming that flavourings pose health risks, do I put it in News and Media or Health Matters? Which forum a thread is posted in doesn't make any difference to normal browsing imo. If I post a review of a new mod in General Vaporiser Talk, is it going to be read by fewer, more or the same number of people as if I put it in Hardware Watch? Whatever forum I put it in, it's going to appear at the top of the Vape Discussions list the moment I post the thread. And it will return to the top every time someone replies. So I see no difference.

Where it does make a difference is if someone new joins, has a particular interest in something and wants to read old threads on it. So someone who has just started vaping and wants to find out about health will find a whole bunch of threads in Health Matters. Or News and Media. If someone new joins, has a low budget and can only afford clones, is it not helpful to have all reviews and discussions of clone gear in one sub-forum? 

Why do members feel that having a sub-forum for something causes division and people to be picked on? We have a sub-forum for High Wattage Devices. Are owners of 300W mods being picked on, or is it owners of single-cell 80W mods who are being picked on?

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Amir (23/6/17)

RichJB said:


> Why? Discounting the vendor sub-forums, we have over 50 different sub-forums as it is. If I'm having a problem with the fire button on my 300W mod, do I put it in My Vape Broke, Ask a Vape Veteran or High Wattage Devices? If I find an article claiming that flavourings pose health risks, do I put it in News and Media or Health Matters? Which forum a thread is posted in doesn't make any difference to normal browsing imo. If I post a review of a new mod in General Vaporiser Talk, is it going to be read by fewer, more or the same number of people as if I put it in Hardware Watch? Whatever forum I put it in, it's going to appear at the top of the Vape Discussions list the moment I post the thread. And it will return to the top every time someone replies. So I see no difference.
> 
> Where it does make a difference is if someone new joins, has a particular interest in something and wants to read old threads on it. So someone who has just started vaping and wants to find out about health will find a whole bunch of threads in Health Matters. Or News and Media. If someone new joins, has a low budget and can only afford clones, is it not helpful to have all reviews and discussions of clone gear in one sub-forum?
> 
> Why do members feel that having a sub-forum for something causes division and people to be picked on? We have a sub-forum for High Wattage Devices. Are owners of 300W mods being picked on, or is it owners of single-cell 80W mods who are being picked on?



Having a thread for it will check all the above boxes for you without conclusive division. No body is being picked on and I feel sad for those who feel victimized because that means you're hyper sensitive to trolls and keyboard warriors in today's day and age. I personally use information from both the clone and authentic threads simultaneously to the betterment of my vape experience, while having a laugh at the digs thrown around. Having a sub forum creates division by indicating that if you can afford it, you go there... If you cant... Then back of the bus for you!! 

The number one reason people buy clones is because the authentic is so friggin awesome that they (and myself included) also want to experience this wonderful vape experience but are unable to afford, or source the authentic. They can still learn and hear thoughts and experiences from the guys who own authentics and vice versa right?! So why the division? Have we really become a forum where price determines where out posts will go? If that's the case then lets institute a subscription fee buy in to the HE threads so the rest of us can not only not afford the equipment, but can't afford to comment and insult the big boys either.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Scott (23/6/17)

Kuhlkatz said:


> My vote : No. - Are we going to discuss the merits of an SXK clone vs an HCigar clone vs a generic ABC 'styled' clone and insist on separate threads or sub-sections for each one too ? There are likely just too many to want to categorize each of them.
> 
> Would you discuss you tuned-up Vee-Dub Golf in a Porsche sub-forum, just because you have a set of Michelins in common ? Is your entry level B-class Benz really the same level as the AMG F1, since both are by Mercedes Benz and they both share technology from the Formula 1 engineering team ?
> Leave the Porches where they belong, and discuss your VW where the other are discussing theirs. Tuned, stock, second-hand or brand spanking new, it still does the same thing. It gets you from point A to point B.
> ...


I personally find it offensive that a moderator finds it fine to tell members to grow up, calls them children and in effect trouble stirrers' for having an opinion and airing their views. You refer to "the majority" not giving a hoot about our opinions but how on earth do you know we are not in the majority! This entire site appears to have become the playground of the elite and wealthy who rule the roost with their absolute disdain for the entry level or middle class vape enthusiast. The jealous guarding of the BB discussion for "authentic" only is a case in point. I sadly and with considerable regret think it's time for me to move on to a forum that tolerates and respects opinions that differ from the moderators' and staff members.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 3 | Informative 1


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## SparMan (23/6/17)

inb4 a vote for https://www.cloneecigssa.co.za vs https://www.expensiveecigssa.co.za

Reactions: Winner 1 | Funny 2


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## BioHAZarD (23/6/17)

SparMan said:


> inb4 a vote for https://www.cloneecigssa.co.za vs https://www.expensiveecigssa.co.za


LMFAO

good one


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## Kuhlkatz (23/6/17)

Scott said:


> I personally find it offensive that a moderator finds it fine to tell members to grow up, calls them children and in effect trouble stirrers' for having an opinion and airing their views. You refer to "the majority" not giving a hoot about our opinions but how on earth do you know we are not in the majority! This entire site appears to have become the playground of the elite and wealthy who rule the roost with their absolute disdain for the entry level or middle class vape enthusiast. The jealous guarding of the BB discussion for "authentic" only is a case in point. I sadly and with considerable regret think it's time for me to move on to a forum that tolerates and respects opinions that differ from the moderators' and staff members.



@Scott , you are more than welcome to have an own opinion, and state it, and no one on here will think any less of you for that. In fact, you are encouraged to have your say in matters, share your experiences - joys and disappointments with us all. Just do it where it is relevant, and keep it civil.
It's a simple ask.

Slag me all you want, but as a moderator, I find it offensive that members have absolutely no tolerance and minimal respect for each other. This is not common behaviour for this community and this forum. I have met and interacted with quite a few of the members on a social level, and it is always a very pleasant vibe. I love the banter and the camaraderie that has always been part of the spirit of this forum.
More recently, virtually every thread discussing HE vs non-HE or clones vs authentics turns into a verbal abuse session, where half the posts have to be scrubbed. It detracts from the value of the information provided, and it has become quite common, instead of being the odd exception here and there. It is very disheartening and disappointing, and NOT encouraged.
If we all behave like grown-ups and discuss matters like grown-ups, there would be no reason to treat anyone like a misbehaving toddler.

I'm not phased by any exclusivity, but I can easily appreciate the beauty in good craftsmanship. I can also appreciate the fact that some clones are well-built and costs a fraction of the original's price. To top it all, I can do this all without a single sneering or condescending comment or attitude to either of the owners, as each of them are happy with the device they bought, and they are vaping.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Scissorhands (23/6/17)

IMO

Clone / Comercial / High End are three different markets

Seperating them would decrease clutter and pointless testosterone fueled arguments and debates , not a separate forum as some misinterpreted, simply a different section

In Comercial and high end threads the participants can discuss the product/problems/solutions/ect. without clutter

In clone threads the participants can discuss the various versions/accuracy/quality/comparisons aswell as the above !

Eg. After reading a thread on product "x" I am interested in product "x" but im not willing to pay "y" for it, I can check out thread "clone x" read/inquire and make a decision from there . . . No harm done

I do like the idea or a "naughty/clown" reaction . . . Lets the poster know they are going off topic without any negative backlash that a dislike or disagree might invoke

Of course none of this is necessary but i recon it could help keep discussion and emotions on track

Peace

Reactions: Like 1


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## craigb (23/6/17)

Scissorhands said:


> In clone threads the participants can discuss the various versions/accuracy/quality/comparisons aswell as the above


Now that goes exactly to what u was saying. This is something relevant only to clones which very well could merit their own sub forum.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Scott (23/6/17)

Kuhlkatz said:


> @Scott , you are more than welcome to have an own opinion, and state it, and no one on here will think any less of you for that. In fact, you are encouraged to have your say in matters, share your experiences - joys and disappointments with us all. Just do it where it is relevant, and keep it civil.
> It's a simple ask.
> 
> Slag me all you want, but as a moderator, I find it offensive that members have absolutely no tolerance and minimal respect for each other. This is not common behaviour for this community and this forum. I have met and interacted with quite a few of the members on a social level, and it is always a very pleasant vibe. I love the banter and the camaraderie that has always been part of the spirit of this forum.
> ...


Please get off your high horse and tell me where or when I was not civil and referring to me as a misbehaving toddler is totally unbecoming of a person of your stature on the forum. I think you need to read your latest posts objectively and contemplate over just who is not being civil.

Reactions: Winner 3


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## Kuhlkatz (23/6/17)

Scott said:


> Please get off your high horse and tell me where or when I was not civil and referring to me as a misbehaving toddler is totally unbecoming of a person of your stature on the forum. I think you need to read your latest posts objectively and contemplate over just who is not being civil.



You seem to be hell-bent that I am directing this at you. Maybe take a step back and re-read this and other threads. If you can find where I indicated you specifically are behaving like a toddler, I'd gladly apologize.



Kuhlkatz said:


> EDIT : Just for clarity - *this is a stab in general*, not aimed at the OP. *If the shoe fits..*.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Scott (23/6/17)

Kuhlkatz said:


> @Scott , you are more than welcome to have an own opinion, and state it, and no one on here will think any less of you for that. In fact, you are encouraged to have your say in matters, share your experiences - joys and disappointments with us all. Just do it where it is relevant, and keep it civil.
> It's a simple ask.
> 
> Slag me all you want, but as a moderator, I find it offensive that members have absolutely no tolerance and minimal respect for each other. This is not common behaviour for this community and this forum. I have met and interacted with quite a few of the members on a social level, and it is always a very pleasant vibe. I love the banter and the camaraderie that has always been part of the spirit of this forum.
> ...


Please indicate how you could possibly perceive this post as being directed at anyone but me personally? You begin it by using my name and responding to all I said. Come on give me a break! You posted it now take ownership and responsibility for the words used and don't use "generalization" as an excuse when you patently insulted a fellow member.


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## Scissorhands (23/6/17)



Reactions: Agree 1


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## Scott (23/6/17)

Kuhlkatz said:


> You seem to be hell-bent that I am directing this at you. Maybe take a step back and re-read this and other threads. If you can find where I indicated you specifically are behaving like a toddler, I'd gladly apologize.


@Kuhlkatz let's put an end to this animosity. I believe it's making us both steep to place's that neither of us wish to be viewed. Our current conduct is not good for the forum or ourselves. Please accept my apology and lets move on. To anybody else offended by my tirade I apologise. This forum is a lot bigger than the two us and there is plenty of better things to exhaust our time and energy on than tit-for-tatting and niggling each other. I let my emotions get the better of me on a topic I feel strongly about but that doesn't excuse abusing other members enjoyment of the forum. Time for me to take a chill pill

Reactions: Like 4 | Winner 4


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## Daniel (23/6/17)

Well , seems this thread turned out like "The Days of our Lives" , much like the forum  

I will leave this Poll running for another week and let's see what happens.

Lot's of positive points came out of this , hopefully the powers that be takes heed and addresses some of the issues as well as suggestions around the functionality of the forum.

Thanks to all who have contributed so far , and to those who have not well let's just say your opinion matters as well it seems even though how irrelevant to the topic at hand it may seem to be

Reactions: Like 1


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## Silver (23/6/17)

Thanks for starting this thread @Daniel

I came in here a bit late. I see I have been tagged by several members.

Just to let you know we are monitoring this thread and I agree, there have been some helpful comments and suggestions. Will look at it further and continue watching.


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## RichJB (23/6/17)

Amir said:


> Having a thread for it will check all the above boxes for you without conclusive division.



I dunno, I can see the point of separating the discussions. Just like I can see the point of separating commercial and DIY juice discussions. If we are talking about a strawberry cream juice profile, sure, we could cover both commercial and DIY in the same thread. But what will happen is that some DIYers will give strawb cream recipes then a commercial mixer will chip in that people shouldn't harm their health with bathtub juice. Then DIYers will shoot back that commercial juice is over-priced, over-sweetened rubbish. And then you have flame wars. We have separate areas for DIY and commercial juice. So if each party stays out of the other one's area, things remain calm.

I'm not saying a Clones sub-forum will mean that sweetness and light will break out and we'll have no more fighting. Having a Clones sub-forum isn't going to stop people posting that clones are rubbish and IP theft, any more than having an HE sub-forum has stopped people going into authentic threads and talking about clones. The two groups are unfortunately at loggerheads. I don't think that is due to the forum structure nor will it be solved by changes to the forum structure. But I do think that having a Clones sub-forum would be a good resource for new vapers who want to do research on which clones are good and which not. So I see this topic in light of the forum's usability to new vapers, not in light of a solution to the HE v LE wars. That will only be solved when people no longer seek confrontation.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2


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## Amir (23/6/17)

RichJB said:


> I dunno, I can see the point of separating the discussions. Just like I can see the point of separating commercial and DIY juice discussions. If we are talking about a strawberry cream juice profile, sure, we could cover both commercial and DIY in the same thread. But what will happen is that some DIYers will give strawb cream recipes then a commercial mixer will chip in that people shouldn't harm their health with bathtub juice. Then DIYers will shoot back that commercial juice is over-priced, over-sweetened rubbish. And then you have flame wars. We have separate areas for DIY and commercial juice. So if each party stays out of the other one's area, things remain calm.
> 
> I'm not saying a Clones sub-forum will mean that sweetness and light will break out and we'll have no more fighting. Having a Clones sub-forum isn't going to stop people posting that clones are rubbish and IP theft, any more than having an HE sub-forum has stopped people going into authentic threads and talking about clones. The two groups are unfortunately at loggerheads. I don't think that is due to the forum structure nor will it be solved by changes to the forum structure. But I do think that having a Clones sub-forum would be a good resource for new vapers who want to do research on which clones are good and which not. So I see this topic in light of the forum's usability to new vapers, not in light of a solution to the HE v LE wars. That will only be solved when people no longer seek confrontation.



To each his own mate.... I suppose there are both pros and cons to either scenario. Ultimately it is the responsibility of the individual to not be offended by internet ninjas, and by the same token, not offend others.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Kuhlkatz (23/6/17)

LOL, thanks @Scott , now you just peed on my battery BIG time... I had to delete my entire, elaborate (yet civil) response I was busy with 

No apology needed, mate. I hold no grudges and I think we share more frustrations in certain respects than you can imagine.

I do apologize if I offended you, but that was not the intention. I am familiar with your posts and style, and believe me, none of my comments was directed at you. 

I merely wish that ALL members take a step away from the keyboard if they get hot under the collar and not try to get in a final dig in any of the arguments that seem to somehow keep on dividing forumites on clones vs noclones or HE / LE / Non-HE. It is really unnecessary and just creates more animosity, and also increases the number of grey hairs I am sprouting.

I think (read secretly hope) that a large portion of members (should) share the sentiment that we do not want, or need any more camps or cliques to be formed. I voted no, as I'm concerned that by 'dividing' the gear even further, it will water down the content and inhibit people from posting their likes, preferences and experiences on their kit. Clones are here to stay, but so are the originals.

/DaysOfOurLives - @Daniel

Reactions: Winner 3 | Can relate 1


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## Roodt (23/6/17)

If an individual is clearly out and about posting comments, with the intended purpose of "upsetting or trolling" other members or to just stirr the pot, the moderator should politely ask said member to refrain from his actions, and take the discussion up with the member in a private message as opposed to doing so publicly as has been seen on this very thread.

I also welcome @Silver input on this topic, as I personally find him to very level headed, fair and just. A calm head is needed to resolve the issues at hand.

Reactions: Thanks 1


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## BioHAZarD (23/6/17)

Roodt said:


> If an individual is clearly out and about posting comments, with the intended purpose of "upsetting or trolling" other members or to just stirr the pot, the moderator should politely ask said member to refrain from his actions, and take the discussion up with the member in a private message as opposed to doing so publicly as has been seen on this very thread.
> 
> I also welcome @Silver input on this topic, as I personally find him to very level headed, fair and just. A calm head is needed to resolve the issues at hand.


Sometimes I think @Silver is too calm. we may need to check pulse every now and again.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Roodt (23/6/17)

BioHAZarD said:


> Sometimes I think @Silver is too calm. we may need to check pulse every now and again.


Fully agreed... he might be mistaking vitamin green for menthol...

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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