# Funfetti substitution



## aktorsyl (3/7/17)

So I want to try Wayne's Funfetti again. The first time I tried it was also the last time, because it tasted like a mix of pepper and sugar. I've since identified the culprit (VBIC and CCGC), but haven't ever scraped up the courage to try the recipe again.

My question is rather simple. The recipe calls for 3% TFA VBIC. Can I sub with 3% CAP VBIC?

Second sub: Can I sub TFA Cheesecake GC 3% with CAP NY Cheesecake 3%?

Or am I looking at a completely screwed flavour profile if I do this?

(Basically, TFA VBIC and CCGC are on my permanent blacklist. I'm having the area in the cupboard where they stood consecrated. Very close behind them are TFA Peach, TFA Coconut, TFA.... well sh*&t. There's a trend here.)

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## RichJB (3/7/17)

Cap VBIC generally subs OK with TFA, you can also try FW which might fit better with Funfetti's sweet profile.

Cap NY Cheesecake I'm not so sure about as it has less crust than TFA. But I can't see it killing the recipe. Maybe add a teeny bit of TFA Graham Clear to compensate?

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## Greyz (3/7/17)

aktorsyl said:


> So I want to try Wayne's Funfetti again. The first time I tried it was also the last time, because it tasted like a mix of pepper and sugar. I've since identified the culprit (VBIC and CCGC), but haven't ever scraped up the courage to try the recipe again.
> 
> My question is rather simple. The recipe calls for 3% TFA VBIC. Can I sub with 3% CAP VBIC?
> 
> ...



IMO you cant sub TFA VBIC for CAP VBIC, they are 2 very different profiles of the same flavour. @Sickboy77 described it best in our DIY group so I'll use his wording here.
TFA VBIC is like the Vanilla Ice Cream you get from Checkers or Pick n Pay, a well rounded ice cream with vanilla, whereas CAP VBIC is that rich vanilla ice cream you get from Woolies.

TFA Cheesecake and CAP NY Cheesecake as well, TFA GCCC tastes more like the biscuit base used to make Cheesecake whereas CAP NYCC tastes more like the cheesecake itself and not the biscuit base.

Sorry it's all doom and gloom but these are just my opinions - YMMV

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## aktorsyl (3/7/17)

Greyz said:


> IMO you cant sub TFA VBIC for CAP VBIC, they are 2 very different profiles of the same flavour. @Sickboy77 described it best in our DIY group so I'll use his wording here.
> TFA VBIC is like the Vanilla Ice Cream you get from Checkers or Pick n Pay, a well rounded ice cream with vanilla, whereas CAP VBIC is that rich vanilla ice cream you get from Woolies.
> 
> TFA Cheesecake and CAP NY Cheesecake as well, TFA GCCC tastes more like the biscuit base used to make Cheesecake whereas CAP NYCC tastes more like the cheesecake itself and not the biscuit base.
> ...


Ah thanks for that! Be as it may, however, I can't use the TFA versions so I don't really have much of a choice  But I will stock up on some of the FW variants.

@RichJB : How about CAP NY Cheesecake 3%, TFA Graham Clear 0.25%, and CAP VBIC at 3%?
Might be too little graham. Hm.

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## RichJB (3/7/17)

ConcreteRiver offers some interesting tips to get Cap VBIC closer to TFA:



> Does TFA Vanilla Bean Ice Cream taste peppery to you? If this answer is yes, then say hello to the CAP Version. It's definitely the closest thing to a direct substitute without that black pepper note. I've sort of been turning into a black pepper taster with TFA VBIC, and I get none of that with the CAP version. Works well enough as a 1:1 sub, but I find that this is a bit less creamy and dense than the TFA Version. Personally, I think the best sub is 1:1 with TFA VBIC to CAP VBIC, and then adding in some additional TFA Vanilla Swirl at something like a 3:1 VBIC to Swirl ratio. It'll still be a little less rich and heavy with a softer vanilla note, but it should at least a similar volume in recipes. If you want some of that richness back, CAP Vanilla Custard v1 (diketones, natch) can help, but it tends to increase your steep time quite a bit.

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## aktorsyl (3/7/17)

RichJB said:


> ConcreteRiver offers some interesting tips to get Cap VBIC closer to TFA:


Awesome, thanks. So 3% CAP VBIC + 1% TFA Vanilla Swirl. No mention of Graham there which is a bit strange, though.

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## RichJB (3/7/17)

Just reading Wayne's notes on Funfetti again:



> *TFA Cheesecake (Graham Crust): *
> 
> Now this was one of the flavors that I didn't realize I needed until after I took my little break. This flavor just lends the mix it's really great sweetness, that's missing if omitted. That creamy and sweet cheesecake flavor that's in this ingredient, really works well with the Sugar Cookie, and what it does is boost that sugar content in the sugar cookie. Funfetti cake is very sweet so we need to really find ways to turn up that sweetness without adding any artificial flavors. This is just one way I do that here. This flavor also works as a thickening agent, and adds that rich body we need to carry that vape. That little graham crust we get adds to the authenticity of that "cake" by giving it a little more character. And lastly we need this flavor to start working on that super sweet and creamy Icing. At 3% we are able to achieve these results. Remember, we gotta try and use as little flavoring as possible, to achieve the flavor profile we want, and I found that 3% of cheesecake is just the right amount without adding in any other unwanted notes.
> 
> ...



Seeing as Cap VBIC is a little lighter than TFA anyway, I'm not sure you'd need to thicken the Cap up and add extra weight. It may need a bit of richness, though.

Wayne does mention the Graham crust in TFA CGC adding character to the cake, so maybe 0.5% of Graham Clear will suffice.

Although just to add that I don't think you'll get Funfetti with subs. You'll get in the ballpark but it won't be the same as the original Funfetti. No matter, though, it should still be an excellent juice.

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## aktorsyl (3/7/17)

RichJB said:


> Just reading Wayne's notes on Funfetti again:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yip, I'm going to do 2 attempts - one original recipe, and one CAP-adapted recipe.
Just remembered I don't have FA Marshmallow. Ah hell.
TFA at 3% maybe, but I need to order restocks soon anyway.

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## RichJB (3/7/17)

I asked Wayne about this directly and he said that VBIC and Marshmallow are the only two profiles in DIY which sub quite readily between the different brands. He added the qualifier that sometimes they are used for very specific purposes which you'll lose with a sub. But his generalisation is that if you're going to use a direct brand-for-brand sub in a recipe, VBIC and Marshmallow are the two 'safest' profiles to do it in.

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## KrayFish404 (3/7/17)

I see they changed the recipe to private on http://e-liquid-recipes.com so can't see what it was.

But the comments people made was about the Joy - to certain tastebuds it tasted off, I can't remember what term they used, could be "peppery". So most people left it out when making it, and still found... uhm... joy...

From Wayne's explanation of the use of it - it's more a mouthfeel than a flavour, so just leave it out, or drop that in a percentage. I also made 2 versions some time ago, it got mixed up, but I know one was fine, the other rubbish, only had had Joy in it.

The haters call him Captain Joy, those see no reason of this flavour inside any recipe, perhaps someone want to experiment and leave it out?

My last batch of juice (not Funfetti, also no Joy) was kuk, also white pepper all over, and I suspected my nic - especially since my 6mg batch was more peppery than my 3mg.

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## aktorsyl (3/7/17)

RichJB said:


> I asked Wayne about this directly and he said that VBIC and Marshmallow are the only two profiles in DIY which sub quite readily between the different brands. He added the qualifier that sometimes they are used for very specific purposes which you'll lose with a sub. But his generalisation is that if you're going to use a direct brand-for-brand sub in a recipe, VBIC and Marshmallow are the two 'safest' profiles to do it in.


Do you mean FA Marshmallow and TFA Marshmallow at the same %? Isn't FA's version much stronger? I'd normally guess a factor of about 1.5x

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## KrayFish404 (3/7/17)

"Yeast... Stale warm beer."

That's what's being said about Joy. So depending on your taste buds, same as some folks not being able to taste strawberries.

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## RichJB (3/7/17)

Yes, I think add a bit more TFA. I don't know if I'd go 4%, though. Maybe 2.5% to start. You can always add more if you think it's lacking.

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## RichJB (3/7/17)

If you want to read Wayne's notes on it, they are here. The Joy is about more than mouth feel. I make my Funfetti with Joy and don't taste anything off. I use it in Simply Cannoli too and it is delicious. It's a great flavour if used properly.

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## KrayFish404 (3/7/17)

RichJB said:


> If you want to read Wayne's notes on it, they are here. The Joy is about more than mouth feel. I make my Funfetti with Joy and don't taste anything off. I use it in Simply Cannoli too and it is delicious. It's a great flavour if used properly.


Correct, but that's why I say certain tastebuds. We all don't always taste the same things.

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## AlphaDog (3/7/17)

aktorsyl said:


> So I want to try Wayne's Funfetti again. The first time I tried it was also the last time, because it tasted like a mix of pepper and sugar. I've since identified the culprit (VBIC and CCGC), but haven't ever scraped up the courage to try the recipe again.
> 
> My question is rather simple. The recipe calls for 3% TFA VBIC. Can I sub with 3% CAP VBIC?
> 
> ...


Hey, I've subbed Cap vbic 1 to 1 and it came out great. Tfa cheesecake gc is fantastic and u shouldn't need to sub that.

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## Rude Rudi (9/7/17)

My findings after making this with the subs have been posted here.

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