# SA gov to tackle ecigs



## Dave1 (31/5/16)

So reading the news this morning and there it is. SA looks like it will follow the WHO guidelines on ecigs.
http://www.fin24.com/Companies/Health/sa-to-hit-smokers-with-tougher-laws-20160531

*No branding, no logos, no colours - SA gets tough on cigarettes*
26 minutes ago 
Matthew le Cordeur





(iStock)

Cape Town – Government said it is determined to tighten its tobacco laws that will see plain packaging on cigarette products as part of a global drive to lower the incentive for people to smoke.

On Tuesday, which is World No-Tobacco Day, the health department said it plans to strengthen the Tobacco Products Control Act to fall in line with World Health Organisation Framework Convention on Tobacco Control.

This follows the 2009 law banning smoking in public spaces.

Health Minister Aaron Motsoaledi said he plans to toughen the act's stance on public smoking, ban the selling of cigarettes at shop counters, ban cigarette dispensers and force companies to package their products in brown paper with no branding whatsoever.

Motsoaledi told SABC on Tuesday that the 2009 law reduced smoking from 25% to 17%. “It is definitely working,” he said. “Many South Africans will tell you they appreciate the clean air.”

However, 44 000 South Africans still die every year as a result of smoking and Motsoaledi said the habit has “no place in modern life”.

Motsoaledi said South Africa has been overtaken on its hard stance on smoking, with the UK, Ireland, Australia and France all banning branded packaging. New Zealand announced on Tuesday that it would follow suit to fall in line with WHO recommendations.

“We have been overtaken,” said Motsoaledi, revealing his determination to bring South Africa back in line with global trends.

“Public smoking should not be (allowed) in hospitals at all,” he said. “At OR Tambo, you move through clouds of smoke when you leave the building.”

That’s why he wants to increase the distance that people can smoke in public space.

Regarding “subtle advertising” at shop counters, he said “we will deal with that”.

“They must go hide the cigarettes somewhere else,” he said. “They must not put it on open counters. Dispensers must also go.”

He said all cigarettes must be in one brown package with graphics that show the damage they can cause. “No branding, no logos, no colours.”

*In addition, he said they would also tackle e-cigarettes.

“We are looking at it very carefully,” he said, explaining that at the last WHO conference a decision was made to package e-cigarettes like any other cigarette.

“Some have nicotine and are just as bad as normal cigarettes,” he said. “It introduces people to tobacco.”*

Motsoaledi’s spokesperson Joe Maila told Fin24 that the department is considering the right time to propose amendments to the law, but warned that 2016 is a short year in Parliament due to the local government elections.

Maila said tobacco companies cite job losses when arguing against stricter laws, but this is wrong.

“You don’t have to give people unhealthy things because it creates jobs,” he said, adding other ways should be found to create jobs.

He said there could be a great deal of resistance to the new laws and government could even be taken to court. “It’s not an easy ride, but we are prepared to take it,” he said. “Prevention is better than cure.”


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## Nick (31/5/16)

The man clearly has no bloody idea what a 'e-cigarette' even is

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Dave1 (31/5/16)

It will probably be a while before coming into effect as there are no backhands involved. 

*Nicotine* is a substance found in most members of the Nightshade family of plants. Small quantities of it can be found in *tomatoes*, *potatoes*, aubergines (eggplants) and green pepper (Capsicum, the peppers used as *vegetables*). *Nicotine* is also present in the Coca plant. Eish now eating these will introduce people to tobacco as well? Hello, I'm Dave, say hello to my little friend, Tobacco.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Petrus (31/5/16)

Rather spend time and money getting their house in order. At this point in time we are facing downgrading "rommelstatus" and he is concerned with people smoking outside OR Tambo? O really!!


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## Lord Vetinari (31/5/16)

So. Time to start a public awareness campaign. No resting on laurels now. Wr have time but not much.

Reactions: Agree 4


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## piffht (31/5/16)

Nick said:


> The man clearly has no bloody idea what a 'e-cigarette' even is



Widely calling them "e-cigarettes" just perpetuates these misconceptions.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## SAVapeGear (31/5/16)

Imagine a pack of 20 Istick Pico's

Reactions: Funny 4


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## Kalashnikov (31/5/16)

Although we all mostly have quit smoking i think peolple are being quite harsh on smokers. I mean if they do this they might as well stop advertising and packaging on alcohol as well considering people are killed from it as well.

And this statement.
Motsoaledi told SABC on Tuesday that the 2009 law reduced smoking from 25% to 17%. “It is definitely working,” he said. “Many South Africans will tell you they appreciate the clean air.”

I dont think the law had anything to do with reducing the smoking. This drop is due to people taking up vaping instead. Also nicotine is the substance in eliquid. And if they should stop logos and that for eliquid they may as well do it for nicotine gums and patches.


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## Lord Vetinari (31/5/16)

Are we expecting government to make sense on THIS issue? Shoh.. only way is to get Zuma vaping.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## piffht (31/5/16)

Kalashnikov said:


> Although we all mostly have quit smoking i think peolple are being quite harsh on smokers. I mean if they do this they might as well stop advertising and packaging on alcohol as well considering people are killed from it as well.
> 
> And this statement.
> Motsoaledi told SABC on Tuesday that the 2009 law reduced smoking from 25% to 17%. “It is definitely working,” he said. “Many South Africans will tell you they appreciate the clean air.”
> ...



The drop of 8% is certainly not due to vaping. The barrier to entry is way too high to have that kind of impact in South Africa, where 50-odd percent of the population live below the poverty line (that is to say below ~R800 per month income IIRC).

Increasing costs, taxation and generally unfavourable economic conditions would have far more of an impact in having people quit or not take up the habit in the first place.


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## Nick (31/5/16)

piffhighwaytraveller said:


> The drop of 8% is certainly not due to vaping. The barrier to entry is way too high to have that kind of impact in South Africa, where 50-odd percent of the population live below the poverty line (that is to say below ~R800 per month income IIRC).
> 
> Increasing costs, taxation and generally unfavourable economic conditions would have far more of an impact in having people quit or not take up the habit in the first place.




Agree and here is an article from NZ which give meat to the bones.. http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...bacco-crackdown-labelled-racist-towards-maori

Reactions: Like 1


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## s kajee (31/5/16)

Why doesn't this cake take the same stance on alcohol then? It's harmful aswell.


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## Neal (31/5/16)

If this government is as effective as it has proven to be on major issues of unemployment, poverty, housing and corruption I would suggest vapers have very little to be concerned about. Only thing these esteemed ministers can be relied upon is that upon opening their mouths to speak they will make absolute t#ats of themselves.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Effjh (31/5/16)

Dave1 said:


> *“Some have nicotine and are just as bad as normal cigarettes,” he said. “It introduces people to tobacco.”*

Reactions: Funny 5


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## DaveH (2/6/16)

*"In addition, he said they would also tackle e-cigarettes".*

They said exactly that about 'road deaths and crime' looks like we are in for a long wait.

Dave


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## Zakariya Baker (2/6/16)

Dave1 said:


> It will probably be a while before coming into effect as there are no backhands involved.
> 
> *Nicotine* is a substance found in most members of the Nightshade family of plants. Small quantities of it can be found in *tomatoes*, *potatoes*, aubergines (eggplants) and green pepper (Capsicum, the peppers used as *vegetables*). *Nicotine* is also present in the Coca plant. Eish now eating these will introduce people to tobacco as well? Hello, I'm Dave, say hello to my little friend, Tobacco.


Hey man. Nicotine is found in these other things, however you can't compare it to vaping (nic juice) or smoking in argument against the intake of nicotine, because tomatoes and eggplants and stuff have so little nic in them. I mean, eggplants are second highest after tobacco in the nightshade family in terms of nicotine p/gram. and you'd have to eat 10kgs of eggplant to take in the equivalent of one cig with regards to nicotine. That aside, the minister is clearly naive on the topic and when opposed won't stand a chance in the face of more knowledgeable vapers.


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## Greyz (2/6/16)

Zakariya Baker said:


> Hey man. Nicotine is found in these other things, however you can't compare it to vaping (nic juice) or smoking in argument against the intake of nicotine, because tomatoes and eggplants and stuff have so little nic in them. I mean, eggplants are second highest after tobacco in the nightshade family in terms of nicotine p/gram. and you'd have to eat 10kgs of eggplant to take in the equivalent of one cig with regards to nicotine. That aside, the minister is clearly naive on the topic and when opposed won't stand a chance in the face of more knowledgeable vapers.



While I agree with everything you have said here, I disagree about your view that the minister wont stand a chance against a knowledgeable vaper. They don't care whether ecigs are good or bad they just want to class it as tobacco so they can milk the consumer. And it won't make any difference even if a knowledgeable vaper stood before parliament and gave the facts. Have you seen the circus that is the SA Parliament? Those guys would laugh at the facts and then make up stats to support their argument.
The only facts are the government needs to line their pockets and 1 easy sure fire way is through regulation. We must be the only government regulating industries for profit - ensuring products are safe is just a by product of regulation to the government...

Reactions: Agree 2


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## RichJB (2/6/16)

There is no country in the world that bases its ENDS policy on a Parliamentary submission by a "knowledgeable vaper". Unfortunately, watching a BBC documentary and reading a few articles on vaping does not make one a medical authority. Instead, our Parliament (like all others) will base its policy on submissions by the relevant national medical council(s) along with either pro- or anti-vaping lobby groups.

One thing is certain: the industry will be regulated. Almost every industry is regulated, there is no reason why ENDS would be an exception. One by-product of that process is the development of international standards for ENDS. I see that the International Organization for Standardization (ISO) has now launched ISO Technical Committee 126 (Tobacco and tobacco products) Sub-committee 3 (Vape and vapour products) to oversee development of international standards for vaping. This committee will hold its first meeting in Japan during October. France has the secretariat, with participation also from Austria, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Denmark, Egypt, Germany, India, Italy, Japan, South Korea, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, the UK and the US. I find Brazil's inclusion a bit odd, seeing as they are one of the few countries that has banned vaping. Why would they want to contribute to the development of a standard governing a product which they don't allow??

This committee will focus on:

Safety and quality requirements for electronic cigarette devices and e-liquids
Test methods for devices and e-liquids
Determination of substances in e-liquids
Testing conditions, equipment, reference products, emissions, vaping machines and robots
User information and services provided by retailing
As is customary, the new standards will be developed jointly by govt, industry and civil society. The ISO website states "At its first meeting, ISO/TC 126/SC 3 will bring together all relevant stakeholders (manufacturers, consumer representatives, health authorities, inspection bodies and testing laboratories) to lay the groundwork for the future discussions that will lead to consensus. The first International Standards are thus expected to be ready for publication in 2018."

I can predict already that SA will simply adopt the international ISO standards as SA national standards. The nub will be whether Parliament makes the standard voluntary (most standards) or a compulsory specification (products with health, safety or environmental impact). The smart money would be on it being a compulsory spec. That might mean that local juice manufacturers may need to be certified to ISO standards, or have their facilities and processes audited against relevant ISO specifications. 

It will also mean that you won't be able to buy an atty with a non-protruding positive pin to screw down on a hybrid mod. The standard will force all tank manufacturers to have a positive pin that protrudes by x number of mm, or will outlaw hybrid mods, or both. ISO is always going to nix product combos that can become pipe bombs in uninformed hands. Anyhoo, the industry is set for fundamental change globally. Welcome to the wide and wonderful world of becoming a mainstream consumer product.

Reactions: Like 4 | Winner 1


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## kimbo (2/6/16)

How uneducated can you be? And that for someone in that position


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## sideshowruki (2/6/16)

Effjh said:


>



Totally unrelated,but I made that meme in 2013

Reactions: Thanks 1


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## Kamiel (2/6/16)

To paraphrase James May, "this must mean they've solved all the other crimes."

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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