# Concentrates and Price



## playa4life (24/5/17)

I've done a quick search on some of the supplier's sites and noticed that the various brands prices differs considerably.
Here's an example taken off one site:

The Flavor Apprentice: R40-R50
Capella: R45-R65
Flavour Art: R60
Flavorah: R75-R130
Flavor West: R40-R50
Inawera: R50-R60
Loco Flavours: R40
Lorann: R40
Nature's Flavors: R65
Real Flavors: R35-R45
Jungle Flavors: R60

These are all for 10ml concentrates. My question is, does the price difference per brand, directly correlate to the quality of the juice? Please share your experiences. For starters, I'm looking at getting:

500ml PG
500ml VG
100ml Nic
3 x 10ml Concentrates
A few mixing bottles
Nitrile Gloves

So, I'm basically looking at spending money once and getting a good enough product with my "Starter Kit" to keep me going for a month or so. I plan on adding x3 concentrates every month in order to build a proper inventory. I'm just looking at mixing for myself and my brother. I dont plan on getting rich off this.
I've watched some very informative YouTube videos and feel that I should be able to pull off a decent first attempt with a 3 flavour mix.

TIA

Reactions: Can relate 1


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## aktorsyl (24/5/17)

Well, there are a few factors:

- Rarity / availability
- Novelty
- Quality (that is rather subjective, to be honest)
- Mixing quantity (for instance, TFA requires more concentrate than it's FA counterparts, etc)

FA's slightly higher price is justified by the very low quantities you need in your mixes.
I don't know what Flavorah is smoking, though.


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## playa4life (24/5/17)

Are you saying that some of the concentrates are more concentated than others? 
To me, this speaks to a better quality concentrate which would, in my book, justify the steeper price.


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## stevie g (24/5/17)

playa4life said:


> Are you saying that some of the concentrates are more concentated than others?
> To me, this speaks to a better quality concentrate which would, in my book, justify the steeper price.


higher concentration flavor concentrate is not a reflection of quality rather it hasn't been diluted down.

It's also harder to work with highly concentrated flavors as the "sweet spot" needs more precise measurements.

Molecular flavor compounds come from only a few giant raw materials flavorant manufacturers, then the smaller companies like FA and Capellas put their own concoction together using the flavor molecules supplied by one of the larger companies.


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## RichJB (24/5/17)

It's not the concentration of the flavour that determines the quality. There are some very concentrated flavours (Inw Wild Strawberry for eg) which are not very popular or highly rated. And some quite weak flavours like TFA Peanut Butter which are universally popular. The concentration does however determine the value. Flv Rich Cinnamon is R75 a bottle. But seeing as it is widely considered the very best cinnamon, and requires only a few drops per 30ml of juice, it gives outstanding value.

In selecting concentrates, I wouldn't go by brand. Instead, go by "best of breed". Each brand has its hits and misses. There are some very good cheap flavours and some very nasty expensive ones. Over time and by reading up on many recipes and watching podcasts, etc, you will develop a feel for which brand is highest rated for each profile. But that doesn't help you now. If you want to give us an idea of what flavours you're interested in getting first, I'm sure people will offer opinions on which brands to go for.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Informative 1


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## aktorsyl (24/5/17)

playa4life said:


> To me, this speaks to a better quality concentrate which would, in my book, justify the steeper price.


Not at all. It is in fact easier to mix if it's more diluted, and has zero bearing on the quality.

EDIT: Sorry, saw the posters above me just said the same thing.


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## playa4life (24/5/17)

I'll post my 3 flavour mix I plan on getting along with what the mixer suggests. 
I need to find the video again though. 
There was a strawberry; a bavarian cream and a Graham Cracker I think. I'll find it and post it up later in its entirety according to the mixer/author.


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## RichJB (24/5/17)

Those are three solid flavours to start with, you will get a lot of mileage from them. You can go all TFA too: Strawberry (or Ripe), Bav and Graham Cracker Clear. All three are well liked and used in bazillions of recipes. 

For the Bav, JF is highly acclaimed and FW is quite popular too. For the Grahams, Cap and FW are viable too although TFA is the most popular. For the strawbs, the sky is the limit. Other than the two TFA, you could go Cap Sweet, JF Sweet, Inw Shisha or even FA Red Touch and not go wrong on any of them. Flv Alpine is highly rated but maybe a bit concentrated for what you need right now. A dilution is recommended for that.

Reactions: Like 1


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## stevie g (24/5/17)

playa4life said:


> I'll post my 3 flavour mix I plan on getting along with what the mixer suggests.
> I need to find the video again though.
> There was a strawberry; a bavarian cream and a Graham Cracker I think. I'll find it and post it up later in its entirety according to the mixer/author.



4% cap sweet strawberry 
2.5% tfa bavarian cream
2% tfa Graham cracker 

I'd vape that.


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## playa4life (24/5/17)

I love this community!

Reactions: Agree 1


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## playa4life (24/5/17)

Here's what I plan on mixing using the standard 70/30 PG/VG mix with 3mg nic.
Strawberry Cream
TFA Strawberry Ripe - 5%
TFA Bavarian Cream - 3%
TFA Graham Cracker Clear - 2%

The original author has been through a few versions of this one but has ended up with this final mix. Seems simple enough as a first mix recipe.


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## aktorsyl (24/5/17)

playa4life said:


> Here's what I plan on mixing using the standard 70/30 PG/VG mix with 3mg nic.
> Strawberry Cream
> TFA Strawberry Ripe - 5%
> TFA Bavarian Cream - 3%
> ...


Can I suggest moving the Bav.Cream down to 2%? The Straw.Ripe is going to have a bit of a tough time standing out behind the cream, especially if it's not layered with a normal Strawberry.
Graham Cracker I would suggest at 1.5%.

Reactions: Like 2


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## RichJB (24/5/17)

If you bought Strawberry, Dragonfruit and Cheesecake Graham next month, you could do God Milk:

3% TFA Bavarian Cream
3% TFA Cheesecake Graham Crust
1% TFA Dragonfruit
4% TFA Strawberry
4% TFA Strawberry Ripe

God Milk after just two months will make you the Arnold of DIY.


The rest of us were still doing 15% TFA Silly Rabbit standalone at that point.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## playa4life (24/5/17)

Thanx for the tips @akt


RichJB said:


> If you bought Strawberry, Dragonfruit and Cheesecake Graham next month, you could do God Milk:
> 
> 3% TFA Bavarian Cream
> 3% TFA Cheesecake Graham Crust
> ...


lol... Funny

Lets see how it goes with my first mix before you start comparing me to The Governator!
For the first few months I intend to just mix readily available recipes which has some good reviews. Thereafter, after I've learned a bit about concentrates and mixing in general, will I only attempt to do something more original.
I was about to place my order just now, when I was faced with a factor I never factored into my equations. I just took for granted, that one size fits all. My factor not factored in - Nicotine... I was faced with the question - PG or VG?
I have read enough to know that some people have their own preference etc but I'm just interested in which one is more commonly used or easiest to work with.
On the subject of nicotine - I have vaped some stuff and alot of the time, the nic content is hella strong for me. Even when it's said to be 3mg. I havent even begun to do the research on nic but, if 3mg is too much for me... can I do 2mg? Is that even a thing?

Please keep all the comments coming. It is much appreciated!

PS: I'll be back


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## aktorsyl (24/5/17)

playa4life said:


> Thanx for the tips @akt
> 
> lol... Funny
> 
> ...


For nicotine, it depends what you want your final PG/VG ratio to be. If you're aiming for 70/30, it means that 30% of your juice can consist of PG (which includes flavouring). If you get PG nicotine, then that has to fit inside that 30% too. At 36 mg/ml nicotine, that doesn't always happen unless you have low percentage flavours in there. It's why I opt for VG nicotine - but 50/50 nicotine would also work.

Reactions: Like 1


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## craigb (24/5/17)

Get yourself a good diy calculator and you can mix nic at 3.14mg if you so wish, it's that easy  

Unless you are specifically going for Max vg buy nic in pg. It's easier to shake.

Reactions: Like 1


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## aktorsyl (24/5/17)

craigb said:


> Get yourself a good diy calculator and you can mix nic at 3.14mg if you so wish, it's that easy
> 
> Unless you are specifically going for Max vg buy nic in pg. It's *easier to shake*.



Emphasising that part. It's definitely easier to shake. Shaking VG nic is... unpleasant.
But you can run into problems with PG nic even without going max vg, though. A 70/30 recipe with 20+% flavouring and 3+% mg nic is going to give you problems.
(Not that you should mix 20+% flavouring, but I digress)


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## RichJB (24/5/17)

I use PG nic as it's a lot easier to work with and, in my experience anyway, also more likely to be stocked. But I mix everything at 60/40 so I never have problems hitting the PG cap. If 3mg nic seems too strong for you, by all means drop to 2mg or less even. As @craigb says, you can input any nic strength you like and the calculator will factor it in correctly for you. The same applies to VG and PG. You don't have to go 70/30 or 60/40. You could go 76.5/23.5 if you so desired. In DIY, you have complete control and can tailor the juice to your exact preferences.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## playa4life (24/5/17)

https://www.ecigssa.co.za/vg-based-nicotine-tip.t30471/

https://www.ecigssa.co.za/nicotine-concentration-do-you-change-it-up-at-all.t7321/

https://www.ecigssa.co.za/pg-vg-and-nic-quality.t35821/#post-516564


Thanx for the speedy replies guys. I found these links. They should help out someone else in the future.
I've decided to go with PG Nic for my concoctions.


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## playa4life (25/5/17)

http://e-liquid-recipes.com seems to have a simple enough calculator. But, instead of just going out and starting to use a calculator, only to find out a few months later that I've been using an outdated calculator that nobody uses anymore coz v2 of that calculator came out and I didnt click on the update button, so now I cant track my mixes from 6 months ago and it keeps on deleting anything that uses TFA Green Goblin...  I'll just ask - Whats the most commonly used calculator? Already saw that some can keep your inventory; keep track of your mixes; print labels; etc. Very impressive stuff.


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## aktorsyl (25/5/17)

playa4life said:


> http://e-liquid-recipes.com seems to have a simple enough calculator. But, instead of just going out and starting to use a calculator, only to find out a few months later that I've been using an outdated calculator that nobody uses anymore coz v2 of that calculator came out and I didnt click on the update button, so now I cant track my mixes from 6 months ago and it keeps on deleting anything that uses TFA Green Goblin...  I'll just ask - Whats the most commonly used calculator? Already saw that some can keep your inventory; keep track of your mixes; print labels; etc. Very impressive stuff.


Well, the Steam Engine one is pretty good, but there's nothing wrong with the ELR one either. Steam Engine link here.

Personally I use JuiceCalculator, it's Windows-based software that stores your recipes, tracks your inventory (concentrates & bases), and has many extra functions for adding nicotine to a mix, or making flavourstones, etc. It also has a steeping list, minimum stock alerts, a shopping list feature, and works out cost per recipe based on your suppliers' prices. It's a bastard to set up initially, but after that it's pretty good. Link is here.

Reactions: Like 1


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## RichJB (25/5/17)

The one I use is this one. It's very powerful and might be a bit daunting at first. But once you have it set up, it will do almost anything you need. We also have a thread here where the developer provides answers and takes feedback.

Edit: it's the same one that @aktorsyl linked.

Reactions: Like 2


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## aktorsyl (25/5/17)

RichJB said:


> The one I use is this one. It's very powerful and might be a bit daunting at first. But once you have it set up, it will do almost anything you need. We also have a thread here where the developer provides answers and takes feedback.
> 
> Edit: it's the same one that @aktorsyl linked.


Haha, snap.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Huffapuff (25/5/17)

aktorsyl said:


> Well, the Steam Engine one is pretty good, but there's nothing wrong with the ELR one either. Steam Engine link here.
> 
> Personally I use JuiceCalculator, it's Windows-based software that stores your recipes, tracks your inventory (concentrates & bases), and has many extra functions for adding nicotine to a mix, or making flavourstones, etc. It also has a steeping list, minimum stock alerts, a shopping list feature, and works out cost per recipe based on your suppliers' prices. It's a bastard to set up initially, but after that it's pretty good. Link is here.


I second (or third) this one. Great calculator that's worth the effort of setting it up.


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## playa4life (25/5/17)

Thanks all for your contributions.
I hope this thread helps would be DIYers and answers some of those initial questions!


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## Kalashnikov (25/5/17)

Before buying any concentrate i use this site http://www.bullcityflavors.com/ to check peoples reviews on it. This makes it easier to know how strong it is and how the flavour is before wasting money

Reactions: Winner 1 | Informative 2


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## RichJB (25/5/17)

Although it's far from complete and there are many, many flavours still to be tested, the Reddit flavour reviews are also very helpful.

Reactions: Agree 3 | Winner 2


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## playa4life (25/5/17)

For interest sake, are there any walk in shops, in and around Cape Town, where one could pick up all the ingredients for a recipe?


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## RichJB (25/5/17)

Vape Cartel may be your best bet, that is if the CT branch has DIY concentrates.


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## playa4life (25/5/17)

I'll give them a quick online search. Thanx @RichJB 

Reaching out again here for some pearls of wisdom: 
Any recommendations on digital scales? Preferably, one that can work with batteries (not necessarily rechargeables or 18650's) and off the mains? 
I see Blckvapour has a, seemingly, battery operated only scale for R240.


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## Andre (25/5/17)

playa4life said:


> I'll give them a quick online search. Thanx @RichJB
> 
> Reaching out again here for some pearls of wisdom:
> Any recommendations on digital scales? Preferably, one that can work with batteries (not necessarily rechargeables or 18650's) and off the mains?
> I see Blckvapour has a, seemingly, battery operated only scale for R240.


That scale is the best (affordable) one around at the moment. The batteries last forever. Valley Vapour also stocks them.


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## playa4life (25/5/17)

Thanx @Andre


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## RichJB (25/5/17)

The Blck one is good, it doesn't work off mains though. The industry standard is the LB501 used by Wayne and most US mixers. That does mains but I don't know of anybody who brings them in.


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## playa4life (25/5/17)

Thanx @RichJB 
If it's pretty standard and used by most and is pretty accurate, then I'll get it. I have tons of batteries at home and will more than likely never run out of batteries. I might just buy some rechargeable batteries to use with it. But considering that I'll probably only mix around 4 times a month, it not having mains isn't a deal breaker. It would have been a nice to have though.


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## playa4life (25/5/17)

Worst case scenario, I'm mixing at 4 in the morning and run out of batteries and have to go to the filling station to buy some overpriced Energizer batteries


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## RichJB (25/5/17)

I just got a pack of 4 rechargeable AAA batts for mine, cost me sixty bucks or so. They fit in my Nitecore charger. I don't like using original batteries in appliances that are seldom used.


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## playa4life (25/5/17)

RichJB said:


> I don't like using original batteries in appliances that are seldom used.


How come?


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## RichJB (25/5/17)

It's just that I feel most of the battery life drains away while the product is not in use. I have a small dictaphone type voice recorder. I seem to get a lot more hours use from a set of batts if I use it every day than if I use it once a month. I don't know whether it uses some battery power in a standby mode or what. So I prefer rechargeables for that sort of thing. For gizmos like the TV remote which I use every day, I'll use originals. It may not make any difference on the scale but I'm into the habit now.

Reactions: Like 1


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## playa4life (25/5/17)

Andre said:


> Valley Vapour also stocks them.


VV is pricy though


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## playa4life (25/5/17)

Is this 
*NICOTINE (PRIME-NIC) basically what is generally used? *


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## RichJB (25/5/17)

Yeah, that's the standard one.


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## playa4life (25/5/17)

Super! 
If all goes well, I should be mixing my first batch on Monday evening. 
Excited for days!


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## aktorsyl (25/5/17)

playa4life said:


> Thanx @RichJBBut considering that I'll probably only mix around 4 times a month,


It might *start* out at 4 times a month, but we'll see if you can stay away from the mixing table for longer than a few days once the bug bites


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## playa4life (25/5/17)

aktorsyl said:


> It might *start* out at 4 times a month, but we'll see if you can stay away from the mixing table for longer than a few days once the bug bites


I feel you!


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## aktorsyl (25/5/17)

Can I suggest looking at the following thread as well:
https://www.ecigssa.co.za/i-want-to-start-mixing.t37429/#post-533024

Reactions: Like 1


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## herb1 (25/5/17)

RichJB said:


> Vape Cartel may be your best bet, that is if the CT branch has DIY concentrates.


They don't


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## RichJB (25/5/17)

Ah well, vapemail it is then.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## herb1 (25/5/17)

RichJB said:


> Ah well, vapemail it is then.


That's where you are still the most cost-effective


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## playa4life (26/5/17)

aktorsyl said:


> For nicotine, it depends what you want your final PG/VG ratio to be. If you're aiming for 70/30, it means that 30% of your juice can consist of PG (which includes flavouring). If you get PG nicotine, then that has to fit inside that 30% too.


30% or 70% PG?
I always confuse which value is placed first. In a 70/30 mix, is 70 not PG and 30 VG? 
Is it PG/VG or VG/PG?


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## aktorsyl (26/5/17)

playa4life said:


> 30% or 70% PG?
> I always confuse which value is placed first. In a 70/30 mix, is 70 not PG and 30 VG?
> Is it PG/VG or VG/PG?


Many argue that PG should be written first, but I always write VG first. But in this case I meant 70vg / 30pg  Usually I write it out to avoid confusion.
PS: a 70% pg mix would be quite horrible on the throat, I'd imagine.


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## herb1 (26/5/17)

aktorsyl said:


> a 70% pg mix would be quite horrible on the throat, I'd imagine.


I made that mistake b4


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## RichJB (26/5/17)

There shouldn't even be a need to state the ratio in full. Unless you're living in some parallel universe where the totality of something doesn't equal 100%, just saying "70 VG" should suffice. What would the other figure be if not 30, and what substance would it be if not PG?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## aktorsyl (26/5/17)

RichJB said:


> There shouldn't even be a need to state the ratio in full. Unless you're living in some parallel universe where the totality of something doesn't equal 100%, just saying "70 VG" should suffice. What would the other figure be if not 30, and what substance would it be if not PG?


Water?
(Not that uncommon a practice, albeit not so much under DIY'ers)


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## RichJB (26/5/17)

Dunno, I can't recall ever reading a recipe that gave a ratio for water. DIYers have added some off-the-wall stuff like actual tonic water or lime juice but then it's listed as an ingredient. It's also usually in such tiny amounts that it isn't deemed to have an effect on the VG/PG ratio. Using Cly flavours means you won't have a pure 70/30 or whatever ratio as they aren't in either a PG or VG base. So a recipe with 5% Cly total flavouring might be 70 VG, 25 PG and 5 "other". But I don't think it has a significant effect on the juice. I'd just mix a Cly-only recipe to my usual 60/40.


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## aktorsyl (26/5/17)

RichJB said:


> Dunno, I can't recall ever reading a recipe that gave a ratio for water. DIYers have added some off-the-wall stuff like actual tonic water or lime juice but then it's listed as an ingredient. It's also usually in such tiny amounts that it isn't deemed to have an effect on the VG/PG ratio. Using Cly flavours means you won't have a pure 70/30 or whatever ratio as they aren't in either a PG or VG base. So a recipe with 5% Cly total flavouring might be 70 VG, 25 PG and 5 "other". But I don't think it has a significant effect on the juice. I'd just mix a Cly-only recipe to my usual 60/40.


No the bigger producers do use dilutants for their PG-free juices (marketed at those who are allergic to PG). But that's in the minority.. I'm just using it as an example of the 30% not always being PG 
But you're right, simply writing 70vg is enough for our purposes, definitely.

Reactions: Like 1


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## playa4life (27/5/17)

Thanx for clearing it up guys!
I was always under the impression that 70/30 meant PG/VG... but having never sat down and mixed a drop in my life, I think my ignorance should be forgiven.
I will never forget that 70/30 refers to VG/PG. 
I'm a linear thinker so in my mind, P comes before V in the alphabet hence my thinking of 70PG/30VG.
But, I've made a mental note that when it comes to mixing, V comes before P. 
I also suffer, happily I might add, from, sometimes manic, OCD. 
You guys have no idea how my OCD starts to tingle when I watch videos that, lets say, calls for 1.5ml of something, and the mixer adds 1.57ml of that ingredient and says "it's acceptable". 
This makes my blood boil. But... I'm OCD


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## RichJB (27/5/17)

Inaccuracy doesn't bother me much, within limits. Recipes are rounded out anyway. If a recipe developer says 2% of a concentrate, has he tested it at 1.9% and 2.1%? Can he say definitely that 2% is the _*exact*_ percentage that works best, and nothing else will do? I doubt it. At worst, I think it will push a flavour fractionally more forward in the mix, probably to such a small degree that it won't be discernible. 

It will make a difference with extremely potent concentrates. If a recipe says to use 0.1% of Flv Rich Cinnamon and you accidentally add 0.17%, you've almost doubled the potency. That will make a discernible difference. But going up from 2.5% to 2.6% isn't a biggie imo. For the less potent concentrates, recipe developers often work in half-percentages anyway. If 1.5% of a flavour isn't strong enough for them, they'll bump up to 2% straight away without testing anything in between.

This is also why you shouldn't take the given percentages as gospel. If you mix a mango peach strawberry and you aren't getting the peach, there's no rule against bumping it up by 1% next time you mix that recipe. Lots of mixers just use the given percentages as a guide and then tailor it to their palate. I don't care if "it's not the same juice that the recipe developer intended". I want my juice to taste right to me, not to him.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## aktorsyl (27/5/17)

playa4life said:


> I'm a linear thinker so in my mind, P comes before V in the alphabet hence my thinking of 70PG/30VG.
> But, I've made a mental note that when it comes to mixing, V comes before P.


Well, not always. Depends on the guy writing it in the first place

Reactions: Like 1


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## playa4life (27/5/17)

RichJB said:


> Inaccuracy doesn't bother me much, within limits. Recipes are rounded out anyway. If a recipe developer says 2% of a concentrate, has he tested it at 1.9% and 2.1%? Can he say definitely that 2% is the _*exact*_ percentage that works best, and nothing else will do? I doubt it. At worst, I think it will push a flavour fractionally more forward in the mix, probably to such a small degree that it won't be discernible.
> 
> It will make a difference with extremely potent concentrates. If a recipe says to use 0.1% of Flv Rich Cinnamon and you accidentally add 0.17%, you've almost doubled the potency. That will make a discernible difference. But going up from 2.5% to 2.6% isn't a biggie imo. For the less potent concentrates, recipe developers often work in half-percentages anyway. If 1.5% of a flavour isn't strong enough for them, they'll bump up to 2% straight away without testing anything in between.
> 
> This is also why you shouldn't take the given percentages as gospel. If you mix a mango peach strawberry and you aren't getting the peach, there's no rule against bumping it up by 1% next time you mix that recipe. Lots of mixers just use the given percentages as a guide and then tailor it to their palate. I don't care if "it's not the same juice that the recipe developer intended". I want my juice to taste right to me, not to him.


Noted... makes sense also.


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## Nightwalker (27/5/17)

Oh hell. Ok here is my DIY mixing journey and what I've learnt.
Plan your order. Order your order. Expect your plan to go wrong. Throw away your plan. Have fun.
Good and bad. It's all learning.


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## playa4life (27/5/17)

Nightwalker said:


> Oh hell. Ok here is my DIY mixing journey and what I've learnt.
> Plan your order. Order your order. Expect your plan to go wrong. Throw away your plan. Have fun.
> Good and bad. It's all learning.


Lol... I love that!

Reactions: Like 1


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## playa4life (1/6/17)

I got so caught up with work and life in general, that I completely forgot to place my order. Items have been sitting in my cart since last week. Finally checked out now!


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## craigb (1/6/17)

playa4life said:


> I got so caught up with work and life in general, that I completely forgot to place my order. Items have been sitting in my cart since last week. Finally checked out now!


I'm in the opposite boat... For the second time of I was up at 11pm compiling an order (I don't know, it just ends up being the best time for me to do it) 

Just got my tracking number from blck. 
Going to have to mix this lot up, lock then up with a time lock and finish all my commercial jooses.


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## playa4life (1/6/17)

Ever heard of people who "mix by hand/eye?"
One guy I spoke with, was blowing smoke up his own @$$, telling me how awesome he is at mixing and that he doesnt even own any syringes or a scale coz he simply mixes by hand. I was like...


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## RichJB (1/6/17)

If you count drops, you could. But drops are very inaccurate. Still, you could get a rough approximation. If you measure out, say, 40 drops per ml as a good average, it's just a case of mental arithmetic. If the recipe called for 0.6g of a concentrate, you would add 0.6x40 = 24 drops. It's much more accurate to use a scale, though.


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## playa4life (1/6/17)

RichJB said:


> If you count drops, you could. But drops are very inaccurate. Still, you could get a rough approximation. If you measure out, say, 40 drops per ml as a good average, it's just a case of mental arithmetic. If the recipe called for 0.6g of a concentrate, you would add 0.6x40 = 24 drops. It's much more accurate to use a scale, though.


But why would anyone insist on counting drops when you could simply buy a syringe...
I feel he was just being full of sheeeet!


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## aktorsyl (1/6/17)

playa4life said:


> But why would anyone insist on counting drops when you could simply buy a syringe...
> I feel he was just being full of sheeeet!


Well you could come up with an amazing mix if you just do blind mixing, it's certainly possibly. However, good luck in ever being able to get that mix the same again.


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## RichJB (1/6/17)

playa4life said:


> But why would anyone insist on counting drops when you could simply buy a syringe...
> I feel he was just being full of sheeeet!



Why would you buy a syringe when you can buy a scale that doesn't need to be washed after every use?

You're right, though, he was probably full of it and thought it would be impressive if he said he could mix by sight. Of course, I don't even need sight. I can mix blindfolded using only The Force and sensing changes in the gamma spectrum of the liquid. That's just me, though. I don't like to brag about it, okes might get jealous.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## playa4life (2/6/17)

RichJB said:


> Why would you buy a syringe when you can buy a scale that doesn't need to be washed after every use?
> 
> You're right, though, he was probably full of it and thought it would be impressive if he said he could mix by sight. Of course, I don't even need sight. I can mix blindfolded using only The Force and sensing changes in the gamma spectrum of the liquid. That's just me, though. I don't like to brag about it, okes might get jealous.



Aaaahhh... you're too modest


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## Caveman (2/6/17)

RichJB said:


> Why would you buy a syringe when you can buy a scale that doesn't need to be washed after every use?
> 
> You're right, though, he was probably full of it and thought it would be impressive if he said he could mix by sight. Of course, I don't even need sight. I can mix blindfolded using only The Force and sensing changes in the gamma spectrum of the liquid. That's just me, though. I don't like to brag about it, okes might get jealous.


Not bad, I once stared at my bottle of VG for 13 minutes straight and it turned into Simply Cannoli. Right before my eyes. I tell everybody though, I even have a shirt saying "Do you even mix bro". 

@playa4life welcome to the DIY club.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## playa4life (2/6/17)

Thanx @Caveman 
I think, the dude I spoke with, was feeling threatened that I was going to start DIY'ing. He was trying his best to discourage me from starting. He also wouldn't give anything away. I was simply making conversation and asked him about the nic he used. His response was simply "I use original nic which is intended for vaping." I asked "PG or VG based?" And still his response was "I use original 100% nic intended for vaping."
My BS filter was going off like crazy so I just smiled and waved.
His parting words to me before I forced myself out of that conversation was "People think DIY is easy, but it's not. It's very difficult."
My response "Kthnxbye"


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## Caveman (2/6/17)

playa4life said:


> Thanx @Caveman
> I think, the dude I spoke with, was feeling threatened that I was going to start DIY'ing. He was trying his best to discourage me from starting. He also wouldn't give anything away. I was simply making conversation and asked him about the nic he used. His response was simply "I use original nic which is intended for vaping." I asked "PG or VG based?" And still his response was "I use original 100% nic intended for vaping."
> My BS filter was going off like crazy so I just smiled and waved.
> His parting words to me before I forced myself out of that conversation was "People think DIY is easy, but it's not. It's very difficult."
> My response "Kthnxbye"


Well I can tell you one thing, if he was truly using 100% Nic, he is a braver man than I. That stuff is so potent you need a certified lab with extraction and ventilation equipment to safely use it. 

There are times you can safely get away with mixing by "sight". Such as if you know you need to use a whole bottle of concentrate in one go. I had a colleague who vaped only CAP Harvest Berry. He used to mix his juice into empty Mountain Dew bottles, just dump a whole 10ml of concentrate in there and roughly throw in the right amount of PG and VG. At least he measured the Nic properly. 

Speaking of Nic, I don't know how much research you have done on the forum and vendors etc, but personally I buy all my base from Clyrolinx. VG, PG and Nic I get from them. Their Nic is the smoothest I have found so far.


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## playa4life (2/6/17)

Will give them a try when my nic is up. 
I bought from blckvapour. How is there's compared to yours?


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## Caveman (2/6/17)

playa4life said:


> Will give them a try when my nic is up.
> I bought from blckvapour. How is there's compared to yours?


Perfectly good. They use Prime Nic, which is the standard Nic that goes around. I buy 500ml at a time so for me buying VG, PG and Nic at one place works out better.


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## playa4life (2/6/17)

Caveman said:


> Perfectly good. They use Prime Nic, which is the standard Nic that goes around. I buy 500ml at a time so for me buying VG, PG and Nic at one place works out better.


So... Prime Nic is what everybody uses? There's no trade offs using Prime? It's as good as what any premium mixer would be using?


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## playa4life (3/6/17)

Damn... I got a call from the office today informing me that I have a Dawn Wing Delivery and should they sign for it. I couldn't believe it. I mean, I placed my order less than 24 hours prior to actual delivery!!! That is some amazing service from blckvapour!!!  I'm so exited I might just pop by the office over the weekend to collect my package!!!

Reactions: Thanks 1


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## RichJB (3/6/17)

Prime Nic is fine. I don't think you'll have any complaints.


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## playa4life (8/6/17)

So... this just happened...

Reactions: Winner 1


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## playa4life (8/6/17)

Made my first 20ml Strawberry Cream @ 3mg Nic.
Tell me though, at first, does the nic taste (peppery taste) come through quite strong? I mixed the batch, then shook it on and off for an hour. Then, temptation got the better of me and I put a drop on my finger for a taste. Tasted more peppery than I would have wanted it to.
Will the nic taste dissipate during the steeping and breathing period? I like a smooth nic flavour.
I was thinking of doing my next test batch and toning the nic down a bit - to say 2.5 or 2.8 until I find that sweet spot?


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## aktorsyl (8/6/17)

playa4life said:


> Made my first 20ml Strawberry Cream @ 3mg Nic.
> Tell me though, at first, does the nic taste (peppery taste) come through quite strong? I mixed the batch, then shook it on and off for an hour. Then, temptation got the better of me and I put a drop on my finger for a taste. Tasted more peppery than I would have wanted it to.
> Will the nic taste dissipate during the steeping and breathing period? I like a smooth nic flavour.
> I was thinking of doing my next test batch and toning the nic down a bit - to say 2.5 or 2.8 until I find that sweet spot?


What's in your strawberry cream? If it contains Vanilla Bean Ice Cream, that's most likely the peppery taste you're getting. Nic does get sliiiightly smoother during the steep, but there shouldn't be peppery notes from it after mixing at 3mg anyway.

Having said that, tasting actual drops of e-liquid won't necessarily taste good (especially if they contain nicotine), as you're bombarding the taste buds in one small area with a whole drop worth of juice and nic.


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## Scott (8/6/17)

Nightwalker said:


> Oh hell. Ok here is my DIY mixing journey and what I've learnt.
> Plan your order. Order your order. Expect your plan to go wrong. Throw away your plan. Have fun.
> Good and bad. It's all learning.


That sounds like you have a hidden camera in my DIY den!

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Scott (8/6/17)

I m


aktorsyl said:


> What's in your strawberry cream? If it contains Vanilla Bean Ice Cream, that's most likely the peppery taste you're getting. Nic does get sliiiightly smoother during the steep, but there shouldn't be peppery notes from it after mixing at 3mg anyway.
> 
> Having said that, tasting actual drops of e-liquid won't necessarily taste good (especially if they contain nicotine), as you're bombarding the taste buds in one small area with a whole drop worth of juice and nic.


I mix my nicotine at 10% and have never had a peppery taste. The vanilla bean ice cream does and I now try avoid using it.


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## aktorsyl (8/6/17)

Scott said:


> I m
> I mix my nicotine at 10% and have never had a peppery taste. The vanilla bean ice cream does and I now try avoid using it.


Yip, same - i avoid VBIC like the plague. Tastes disgusting to me (not everyone gets that effect from VBIC though).


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## Scott (8/6/17)

aktorsyl said:


> Yip, same - i avoid VBIC like the plague. Tastes disgusting to me (not everyone gets that effect from VBIC though).


It came up in a number of recipes I tried and they always had a strange taste and I just couldn't put my finger on the problem until I accidentally left out the VBIC and bam it was gone. So is the VBIC into a dark corner of my concentrate stash.


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## playa4life (8/6/17)

aktorsyl said:


> What's in your strawberry cream? If it contains Vanilla Bean Ice Cream, that's most likely the peppery taste you're getting. Nic does get sliiiightly smoother during the steep, but there shouldn't be peppery notes from it after mixing at 3mg anyway.
> 
> Having said that, tasting actual drops of e-liquid won't necessarily taste good (especially if they contain nicotine), as you're bombarding the taste buds in one small area with a whole drop worth of juice and nic.


70VG/30PG Mix 
PG Nic base: 1.3g
TFA Strawberry Ripe: 0.79g (5%)
TFA Bavarian Cream: 0.47g (3%)
TFA Graham Cracker Clear: 0.31g (2%)
VG: 13.20g
PG: 1.85g

Total: 15ml/17.92g 

Edit: 15ml and not 20ml as my initial post states.


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## playa4life (23/6/17)

I need to get this harsh peppery taste out of my juice! I'm sure I got a bottle of Prime Nic which has 36mg written on the bottle but the contents seems much higher than 36mg.
I already halfed the nic in my mix to 1.5mg and it's still pronounced. I'll be taking it down to 1mg and next and see from their.
Question though: On my mix, I'm getting some other taste coming through. I cant quite put my finger on it or describe it but something is off. Flavours dont come through at all. All I taste is this pronounced mystery taste. I guess it could very well be any of the ingredients I'm adding so I plan on doing single mixes with no nic of:
1 x 5% Strawberry Ripe
1 x 5% Graham Cracker Clear
1 x 5% Bavarian Cream

Can anyone describe what these, as stand alone mixes, should taste like on a 70VG/30PG ratio?
Could this mystery taste even be my PG coming through strong? What does PG on its own taste like?


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## playa4life (23/6/17)

FYI 
I've shook my mix up countless times a day. I've let it breath for around 20 minutes a day roughly every second or third day also in the hope that the harsh taste would fizzle away... it hasnt.


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## aktorsyl (23/6/17)

playa4life said:


> I need to get this harsh peppery taste out of my juice! I'm sure I got a bottle of Prime Nic which has 36mg written on the bottle but the contents seems much higher than 36mg.
> I already halfed the nic in my mix to 1.5mg and it's still pronounced. I'll be taking it down to 1mg and next and see from their.
> Question though: On my mix, I'm getting some other taste coming through. I cant quite put my finger on it or describe it but something is off. Flavours dont come through at all. All I taste is this pronounced mystery taste. I guess it could very well be any of the ingredients I'm adding so I plan on doing single mixes with no nic of:
> 1 x 5% Strawberry Ripe
> ...


Have this too sometimes. Nic is shaken well, recipe is identical to the last time, the concentrates are the same... but the nic is harsh a.f.


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## playa4life (27/6/17)

aktorsyl said:


> Have this too sometimes. Nic is shaken well, recipe is identical to the last time, the concentrates are the same... but the nic is harsh a.f.


Could this be due to some Prime Nic batches having higher nic level as opposed to what's shown on the bottle?


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## playa4life (27/6/17)

I've halved the nic content on my subsequent mix of this same recipe and after a week of steeping, it's definitely a lot less harsh... still a touch more nic than I prefer but definitely a lot better. Going to mix up another batch and then add nic at 75% of my last batch. I think/hope that will be more smooth.


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## aktorsyl (27/6/17)

playa4life said:


> Could this be due to some Prime Nic batches having higher nic level as opposed to what's shown on the bottle?


That is what I'm worried about, but it sure as hell better not be the case. That's just dangerous.


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## playa4life (27/6/17)

aktorsyl said:


> That is what I'm worried about, but it sure as hell better not be the case. That's just dangerous.


Coz, I mixed my initial batch right down to the wire - adding drop by drop to get to the required level and hit each ingredient dead on the money yet. You can imagine my disappointment when I vaped that batch and it was basically unvapable.


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## Caveman (27/6/17)

playa4life said:


> Coz, I mixed my initial batch right down to the wire - adding drop by drop to get to the required level and hit each ingredient dead on the money yet. You can imagine my disappointment when I vaped that batch and it was basically unvapable.


I don't use Prime Nic for this reason. Very inconsistent in my experience. I've gotten quite a few peppery batches of prime nic. Shaking the shit out of the nic before hand seemed to work. But I don't use prime at all anymore

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk


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## playa4life (27/6/17)

Caveman said:


> I don't use Prime Nic for this reason. Very inconsistent in my experience. I've gotten quite a few peppery batches of prime nic. Shaking the shit out of the nic before hand seemed to work. But I don't use prime at all anymore
> 
> Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk


What do you use and where do I get some?


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## RichJB (27/6/17)

Maybe try Clyrolinx or Vaperite, @playa4life. The Flavour Mill also imported their own nic which is apparently very good but they are out of stock currently.


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## playa4life (27/6/17)

RichJB said:


> Maybe try Clyrolinx or Vaperite, @playa4life. The Flavour Mill also imported their own nic which is apparently very good but they are out of stock currently.


Will definitely look into getting these and then use them side by side in identical mixes...


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## Caveman (27/6/17)

playa4life said:


> What do you use and where do I get some?


I get all my bases from clyrolinx. It's cheap too. R485 for 500ml

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk


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## playa4life (27/6/17)

Caveman said:


> I get all my bases from clyrolinx. It's cheap too. R485 for 500ml
> 
> Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk


I'm on there right now. The prices are decent.
How are their concentrates?


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## Caveman (27/6/17)

Difficult to say, they vary greatly from being good to unvapeable, for me at least. There is a thread here somewhere with all the reviews done on them.

Edit: I found the link https://www.ecigssa.co.za/index.php?threads/26602/

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## franshorn (6/9/17)

So bumping this thread. 

Getting into DIY mixing as well. 

Using TFA Concentrates and Scrawny Gecko PG Nic. 

Also getting a harsh peppery taste, mixing at 3mg. Not sure if I haven't shaked the nic enough before using it. 

Mixed a batch on Saturday, and I had to take one of my mixes to Vape today as I ran out of premade juice. Hardly been through 4mls today. Here's the recipe : http://tjek.nu/r/eAbh

Not sure if my flavours are too much or what. 

Vaping it at 40watts in a melo3 mini on a 0.5ohm EC coil on a Pico.

On a side note. I have noticed a big difference in pricing also. TFA 10ml flavours being sold from R25- R75 a bottle...


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## RichJB (6/9/17)

There will be a difference in price between B&M stores and online vendors as the former have extra overheads. As I see it, it's the vendor's prerogative to charge whatever they like and my prerogative to choose where I buy. If a vendor can make a living and get any sort of market share charging R75 for TFA when it's available for R25 elsewhere, more power to them. 

Regarding your recipe, is it your own creation or adapted from something else? 7% TFA Lychee strikes me as too high and I certainly couldn't vape anything with 2.5% Koolada. I would also tend to avoid additives like Ethyl Maltol and Sour. While they have specific applications where they can help a juice (like a leeeetle bit of EM to take the harsh edge off citrus), they are far more likely to mute/ruin it. At least, for my palate. But palates differ. I have seen recipes with % that are just bizarre. But many people like them. So it's a case of finding your happy place and mixing for your palate, not someone else's.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## Wimmas (13/9/17)

Also recently got into DIY and started out with prime nic.... no problems. Second bottlebI got scrawny gecko with no problems. I use VG nic though.

I've had peppery tastes as well and noticed the following: Steeping helps get rid of it and certain flavours has it. I made a diketone free Mustard milk recipe and it seems the Vanilla Bean Gelato of TFA gave the peppery taste. Also not a big fan of the plain Strawberry TFA, too organic and mild and also seems to contribute to the peppery taste. Using Strawberry Ripe TFA instead. The mustard milk diketone free recipe isnjust aweful to me, after two weeks of steeping I still can't stand it.

Moved on and mixed a few more complex recipes tonight. We'll see how they turn out after two weeks



Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk

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## playa4life (1/11/17)

Good day family
It's been a while. I've put some notches in my belt as far as DIY goes.
I'm happy to say that I've perfected my Strawberry Cream recipe.
I've also built up the courage to try some more and the results have been pretty good.
I've done a Sour Apple which tastes exactly like the Apple Striker sucker with a hint of sour to it.
I also ordered some concentrates for a recipe I saw online but by the time the concentrates were delivered, I had lost the recipe and couldnt find it anywhere. So... I was sitting with a bunch of unmatched concentrates. I realized that I have most of the ingredients for a Dragon Fruit mix of sorts and proceeded to mix with what I had. Wherever it called for something I did not have, I substituted as well as what I could have. Lets say it called for Ice Cream and I did not have ice cream then I'd use something which, at least had cream in it's name  and would end up using Sweet Cream. When it called for Vanilla Bean Ice Cream and I did not have it, I'd end up using Butter Cream... coz hey... It's at least got Cream in it's name!
I called it "Dragon Fruit Surprise". I didnt have very high hopes for it but!!! OMG!!! This one turned out so good that I ended up making 100ml thereof as soon as the original mix was up.

So, ATM, I've mixed up three mixes - through trial and error - but I've managed to perfect them (for my palate at least) 

And... WRT the nic which seems higher than whats on the bottle  - I'm just using 1.25mg in all my mixes since 3mg with this bottle (which is supposed to be 36mg) is just way too harsh for me.
So all in all - The journey continues!
Thanx again to everyone on this forum for their support; advice and just general love for all things DIY. Your love for this hobby of our definitely shows in your responses. 
I said it once and will say it again... I love this community!!!
ECSA FTMFW!!!

Reactions: Like 3 | Winner 3


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## veecee (25/11/17)

playa4life said:


> Good day family
> It's been a while. I've put some notches in my belt as far as DIY goes.
> I'm happy to say that I've perfected my Strawberry Cream recipe.
> I've also built up the courage to try some more and the results have been pretty good.
> ...


Hi guys, first post. Just found this forum, been looking to try my hand at DIY. After reading through this post, I'm definitely going to try it out. Thx playa4life for asking relevant questions and thx for the great answers. Can't wait to get stuck in.

Sent from my Lenovo TAB 2 A10-70L using Tapatalk

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## playa4life (22/12/17)

veecee said:


> Hi guys, first post. Just found this forum, been looking to try my hand at DIY. After reading through this post, I'm definitely going to try it out. Thx playa4life for asking relevant questions and thx for the great answers. Can't wait to get stuck in.
> 
> Sent from my Lenovo TAB 2 A10-70L using Tapatalk


Im glad my thread could provide answers to other DIY noobs.

Reactions: Like 1


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## franshorn (7/2/18)

I put together a spreadsheet with a summary of what the different vendors charge for equivalent of 10ml concentrate.

This is by no means a full list as I might have missed a vendor. Feel free to add a link to the vendors website and I will update the list:

Reactions: Like 4 | Winner 7 | Thanks 2 | Informative 3


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## Bizkuit (7/2/18)

franshorn said:


> I put together a spreadsheet with a summary of what the different vendors charge for equivalent of 10ml concentrate.
> 
> This is by no means a full list as I might have missed a vendor. Feel free to add a link to the vendors website and I will update the list:
> View attachment 121480



Wow that's a bit of an eye opener in regards to pricing.
Thanks for that.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Huffapuff (7/2/18)

franshorn said:


> I put together a spreadsheet with a summary of what the different vendors charge for equivalent of 10ml concentrate.
> 
> This is by no means a full list as I might have missed a vendor. Feel free to add a link to the vendors website and I will update the list:
> View attachment 121480


Nice work, thanks for sharing.

What one also has to consider is the range of flavours each vendor has. Paying an extra R2-R5 for a concentrate often comes out cheaper than paying several delivery costs.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Moerse Rooikat (7/2/18)

and same give free shipping on r1000 and same on r1500
this is good thanks as i sit with a basket checking out at 12pm wen pay day hits

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## franshorn (7/2/18)

True what you say about the range. I will maybe extend the list to say PG VG and Nic as well. Even add delivery costs as well. 

I don't play around with a lot of exotic flavours. Don't think I plan to either. My aim was to make me juice that's cheaper than store bought stuff.

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## veecee (7/2/18)

Nothing in there about local flavours? 

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## Puff the Magic Dragon (7/2/18)

@franshorn Thanks for all the effort you have gone to. It is really appreciated. 
Consumer Watchdog

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 3


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## franshorn (7/2/18)

veecee said:


> Nothing in there about local flavours?
> 
> Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk



I intentionally skipped all the local flavours, as most of the recipes I get from alltheflavors and ELR do not have ZA based local stuff. So kind of useless for me though. 

And also the vendors listed, some of them stock their own concentrates, which would not be a like for like comparison. 

Intention was to show that Vendor X charges nearly 3 times more for TFA/TPA than vendor Y

Reactions: Like 2


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## Moerse Rooikat (7/2/18)

flavor world has there own range i take it that is local at r15 to r18
and they sell cotton
but dont stock 27 fish or 27 bear


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## Moerse Rooikat (7/2/18)

franshorn said:


> True what you say about the range. I will maybe extend the list to say PG VG and Nic as well. Even add delivery costs as well.
> 
> I don't play around with a lot of exotic flavours. Don't think I plan to either. My aim was to make me juice that's cheaper than store bought stuff.


good plan 
i do mind the waiting so delivery date is important to


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## ivc_mixer (7/2/18)

veecee said:


> Nothing in there about local flavours?



ZA Concentrates, listed under Blckvapour, is local. And if I'm not mistaken, Frandy Flavours is Blckvapour's inhouse brand, thus also local.

Also, another shop which offers concentrates, though limited, is Vape Connoisseur (http://vapeconnoisseur.co.za). They stock FA, TFA and ZAC. All at R45 per 10 ml


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## KZOR (7/2/18)

@franshorn 
Thanks alot for this. Will definitely be able to save alot more with future purchases. 
Don't forget Juicy Joes ....... also very very good prices on TFA and CAP flavourings.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Moerse Rooikat (7/2/18)

KZOR said:


> @franshorn
> Thanks alot for this. Will definitely be able to save alot more with future purchases.
> Don't forget Juicy Joes ....... also very very good prices on TFA and CAP flavourings.


no delivery as i can walk there is a plus

Reactions: Like 3


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## Richio (7/2/18)

Hi guys

I couldn't reply here so I had to start another thread, just some insight into this
https://www.ecigssa.co.za/concentrates-pricing-v2.t47105/#post-636022

Reactions: Like 3


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## veecee (7/2/18)

franshorn said:


> I intentionally skipped all the local flavours, as most of the recipes I get from alltheflavors and ELR do not have ZA based local stuff. So kind of useless for me though.
> 
> And also the vendors listed, some of them stock their own concentrates, which would not be a like for like comparison.
> 
> Intention was to show that Vendor X charges nearly 3 times more for TFA/TPA than vendor Y


Good job then dude. Much appreciated. Consumer watchdog is a great description for you. This deserves an award I reckon!

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Reactions: Like 2


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## KZOR (25/2/18)

Bought a 100ml TFA VBIC from @ShaneW (Juicy Joes) for R180 and i see Valley Vapour sells it for R351.
What justifies a R170 price difference?

Reactions: Agree 4


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## Adephi (25/2/18)

KZOR said:


> Bought a 100ml TFA VBIC from @ShaneW (Juicy Joes) for R180 and i see Valley Vapour sells it for R351.
> What justifies a R170 price difference?



It all boils down to what @Richio said in his thread. 

All the additional overheads and quality control measures does add to the cost. 

I'm also one to use the cheapest vendors. But I know the risk involved in getting a possible inferior product. Some flavours do taste a bit different from the description from time to time.


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## franshorn (26/2/18)

Adephi said:


> It all boils down to what @Richio said in his thread.
> 
> All the additional overheads and quality control measures does add to the cost.
> 
> I'm also one to use the cheapest vendors. But I know the risk involved in getting a possible inferior product. Some flavours do taste a bit different from the description from time to time.



Well i have bought from one of the vendors that tried to justify their higher price. Quality to me is not of any higher standard. Same bottles, shipping packaging was actually of a lower standard than some of the cheaper vendors I listed. Sure there might be a difference in the re bottling procedure, but would one REALLY know what the "lab" looks like and the methodology? As I haven't seen one of the DIY vendors actually post photos.

I work hard for my salary, and I will hunt for the best deal.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


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## ivc_mixer (26/2/18)

franshorn said:


> Sure there might be a difference in the re bottling procedure, but would one REALLY know what the "lab" looks like and the methodology?



I know that Blckvapour uses a lab, Zeftech, to do their bottling. I heard that for their latest addition to their lab they are now planning on going for a ISO-7 accreditation but as is they already have a ISO-8 accreditation (which is the required standard set by most shops) - they may actually already have their ISO-7 accreditation.

FYI for those who may not know, the lower the ISO grade, the better. So a ISO-7 grade is better than a ISO-8 grade. Also, based on the fact that a lot of the nicotine, PG, VG and concentrates we get from overseas being ISO-7 certified, you can make or bottle stuff in a ISO-6 lab in South Africa, but it will not help as your grading of your juice depends on the *highest ISO rating of the products used, *e.g. if your VG is ISO-8 but your concentrates, PG and nic is ISO-7 and your lab is also ISO-7, your ISO rating would be a 8.

Other than Blckvapour, I cannot comment on any other places who sell liquids as I have no idea re their bottling facilities.

*edited

Reactions: Informative 2


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## Moerse Rooikat (26/2/18)

this needs to be updated as there is a price drop Blckvapour is one that dropped there price one more just cant remember who


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## franshorn (26/2/18)

Moerse Rooikat said:


> this needs to be updated as there is a price drop Blckvapour is one that dropped there price one more just cant remember who



Yip I'll update the pricing schedule sometime when I get the chance. 

I've never had an issue with Blckvapour. Always received good service from them. Albeit I've only placed 1 order with them. 
I have placed orders from about 4 different vendors to guage quality and service from them, and will place another order from them once I require supplies again.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Moerse Rooikat (26/2/18)

franshorn said:


> Yip I'll update the pricing schedule sometime when I get the chance.
> 
> I've never had an issue with Blckvapour. Always received good service from them. Albeit I've only placed 1 order with them.
> I have placed orders from about 4 different vendors to guage quality and service from them, and will place another order from them once I require supplies again.


might be a good idea to add a price for 100ml or like Blckvapour 118ml (r220 i think)


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## ivc_mixer (26/2/18)

Moerse Rooikat said:


> this needs to be updated as there is a price drop Blckvapour is one that dropped there price one more just cant remember who



I believe this is just a February sale price drop. Don't think it is a permanent price reduction.


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## Mr. B (1/3/18)

Adephi said:


> It all boils down to what @Richio said in his thread.
> 
> All the additional overheads and quality control measures does add to the cost.
> 
> I'm also one to use the cheapest vendors. But I know the risk involved in getting a possible inferior product. Some flavours do taste a bit different from the description from time to time.


I agree. I purchased once from a reputable vendor and I believe one of the concentrates they sent me were contaminated. The vendor claimed it wasn't their fault and in their opinion I couldn't prove that it was. The experience really made me wonder what the conditions were when that vendor bottled the product and since then I've steered clear of them. 

I now have two or three vendors I alternate between due to quality; price and availability and I haven't been disappointed since.


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## Captain Chaos (1/3/18)

Moerse Rooikat said:


> no delivery as i can walk there is a plus


I'm also lucky that the new The Flavour Mill in Sedgefield is just down the road from me. I take a stroll there once a week. The owners of the Sedgefield branch are awesome people.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Puff the Magic Dragon (10/11/19)

Almost two years ago @franshorn provided us with a very detailed price comparison for concentrates (see above).

I am way lazier than him but have drawn up a list of prices for two vendors with today's prices compared to their prices in Feb 2018. The prices are the "average" price for the concentrate (not sale prices). I haven't named the vendors because the only thing of real interest (to me) is the drop in prices. If one takes into account the general price increases in SA over the last two years then these price drops are very substantial.

1st Vendor Feb 2018 1st Vendor Nov 2019

TFA R 35 TFA R 25 
Cap R 40 CAP R 30
FA R 40 FA R 25
FW R 35 FW R 25

2nd Vendor Feb 2018 2nd Vendor Nov 2019

TFA R 24 TFA R 14
Cap R 29 CAP R 24
FA R 24 FA R 18
FW R 24 FW R 15

Note : We have already had the debate as to why some vendors charge more than others. I am merely bringing up the welcome price drop.

PS Formatting stuffed but you can work it out.

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 1 | Informative 5


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## ivc_mixer (11/11/19)

We are very privileged with our pricing and cannot complain.

Compared to some overseas sites we have:
(30ml bottles, using TFA Strawberry Ripe)
TFA - SA Site 1: R60.00
TFA - SA Site 2: R39.00
TFA - Canadian Site: R61.93 (at current exchange rate)
TFA - USA Site: R44.65 (at current exchange rate)

(30ml bottles, using CAP Vanilla Custard V2)
CAP - SA Site 1: R80.00
CAP - SA Site 2: R72.00
CAP - Canadian Site: R73.21 (at current exchange rate)
CAP - USA Site: R59.73 (at current exchange rate)

Now you must remember that this includes importing costs such as customs, courier, etc.

Reactions: Like 2


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