# What Can We Do To Keep On Vaping In Rsa?



## Paulie

Hey all,

I was just curious if there are any organisations that are available or if its in the pipeline to help prevent (ant vape laws) or at least provide the vaping community with information around vaping in south Africa and the laws?

My reason for this is I am seeing a trend overseas (more usa) and would like to know your thoughts or info?

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 4 | Thanks 1


----------



## devdev

paulph201 said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I was just curious if there are any organisations that are available or if its in the pipeline to help prevent (ant vape laws) or at least provide the vaping community with information around vaping in south Africa and the laws?
> 
> My reason for this is I am seeing a trend overseas (more usa) and would like to know your thoughts or info?


Yes, this is certainly something that has been kicked around in the past, and as I recall, it is totally in conceptual stage and did not go any further.

If I had the time, and the patience then I would probably do it.

If anyone is interested in working on it, let me know, and maybe as a group effort we could get something going?

We would need: 

1. A committee of committed committee members (think tank)
2. A person with graphic design capabilities
3. Someone who can do basic website and maintenance
4. A few folks who write well/enjoy writing/drafting documents
5. Someone to interpret the legislation

The think tank would need to assess the current position and identify potential threats in the future. We would also need to identify and propose a strategy to promote edukashun about vaping, and to counter the evil propaganda of Big Pharma and Big Tobacco

Reactions: Like 6


----------



## johan

... or in Portuguese:

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


----------



## Rellik

This issue doesn't only affect us as vapers, but also our suppliers / retailers.
I think we should get them involved, as they are the guys who the government will be going after to close down via legislation / taxes etc.
I would like to know how secure our Certified Retailers feel about their businesses ? Remember, by us stopping smoking, we are taking away alot of money from the government and they will start noticing soon....

Reactions: Optimistic 1


----------



## RoSsIkId

Lets contact Juju to fight for us.

Kill the stinkie

Reactions: Funny 3


----------



## TylerD

Or in AliGimy

Reactions: Funny 4


----------



## Chef Guest

devdev said:


> Yes, this is certainly something that has been kicked around in the past, and as I recall, it is totally in conceptual stage and did not go any further.
> 
> If I had the time, and the patience then I would probably do it.
> 
> If anyone is interested in working on it, let me know, and maybe as a group effort we could get something going?
> 
> We would need:
> 
> 1. A committee of committed committee members (think tank)
> 2. A person with graphic design capabilities
> 3. Someone who can do basic website and maintenance
> 4. A few folks who write well/enjoy writing/drafting documents
> 5. Someone to interpret the legislation
> 
> The think tank would need to assess the current position and identify potential threats in the future. We would also need to identify and propose a strategy to promote edukashun about vaping, and to counter the evil propaganda of Big Pharma and Big Tobacco


I'm in if you'll have me. Can't do graphic design or websites but am very good at making a noise!

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## devdev

Yeah absolutely @Chef Guest. You can think and, make a noise, and account of your height you and I could intimidate people if need be. We have the basis for something here I am sure.

Now if we could draft @Silver in to things I think we would be moving in the right track...

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## devdev

So any other volunteers prepared to step forward?

This is not a small job but if we equally distribute the tasks then it will be quite easy to achieve


----------



## HPBotha

Should we not also become affiliated with existing international organisations.... Thereby increasing the foundation both locally and internationally in regards to resources and votes- should we need to take it through to government; should they act upon 'vaping' law.​​I am no expert when it comes to politicking, nor do i intend to, but should there not also be a media liaison for the organisation //ecigssa? I think the community has grown so large that there should be an independent committee that has no affiliation with vendors at all.​​The whole idea that vendors speak up for their product opens up a self professing miracle cure - like a witch doctor promoting taking a shower after sex as a cure for aids... should there not be a sub committee representing vendors, and a main independant body govern it on behalf of the end users.​​What we are talking about is more like an NPO, should 'it' be registered as a non profit organisation or not? surely a registered NPO will have more clout than a mob of vapers branding glowing ecigs while stomping out cigarettes under a banner of defiance?​

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Winner 1


----------



## devdev

@HPBotha yes, the points you raise are certainly what the organisation should aim towards as it evolves and grows, but at this stage I think we need to focus on getting an informal association of concerned folks together, and start placing the smaller bits in to place so that when it is needed we can swing into action.

Again, calling all vapers who are prepared to step up and assist in this project...


----------



## WHeunis

I can offer myself in a somewhat limited capacity towards the graphics design, but not able to dedicate the kind of time required into website design/management.

I won't necessarily be able to produce sub-24 hour results as I do for high-profile paying clients, but as far as free goes, I will at least be able to par 72 hour results.

Just putting that out there.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1 | Thanks 1


----------



## TylerD

Let me know what I can do. Not the clevererested oukie, but will do what you want.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


----------



## devdev

WHeunis said:


> I can offer myself in a somewhat limited capacity towards the graphics design, but not able to dedicate the kind of time required into website design/management.
> 
> I won't necessarily be able to produce sub-24 hour results as I do for high-profile paying clients, but as far as free goes, I will at least be able to par 72 hour results.
> 
> Just putting that out there.


 
That's an awesome offer Wheuns!

Thanks man 

We don't need a 24 hour turnaround time in any event. Since we will operate as a committee things will take forever. In fact I expect it will take around a month to decide if we should have tea or coffee at the first meeting


----------



## Chef Guest

True story @devdev

Sent from the Dark Side of The Force


----------



## HPBotha

Can we get this post as a permalink somewhere- at least get the word out that we need a vote or something. i am currently working on my own site, and will be happy to help where i can - everything is possible with a bit of google kung foo funkery. let me know how i can help.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## devdev

Ok, I have made this in to a sticky....


Now we just need more volunteers

Thanks to everyone who has stepped up so far


----------



## Rob Fisher

I'm in.


----------



## Rellik

I'm in. I'm still a noob, but willing to give a hand where needed.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Paulie

Im happy to help with research but I caint put in a lot of time other than after hours,


----------



## Silver

Hi guys

Thanks @paulph201 for bringing this issue up - and thanks @devdev for taking it further.

I actually have negative free time  LOL.
Seriously, pretty much all my (non-existent) free time goes onto this forum 

That said, I do think this is a very important issue. So I would like to take part - and add value if I can.
We just need to find a way I can donate my time to the project most effectively.
So I will add value where I can.
On that basis, count me in.

I do feel that the point about getting the retailers - and more importantly, the juice manufacturers involved is critical.


----------



## Silver

Rellik said:


> I'm in. I'm still a noob, but willing to give a hand where needed.


 
Dear noob @Rellik 
Thanks for offering your help here.
Would you kindly indicate your location that gets displayed under your avatar (just click on your name in the top right and then personal details)


----------



## KimH

I am happy to help out where and when I can.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Paulie

@devdev so whats the plan stan?


----------



## Dave

Hi Guys, I'm relatively new to the forum.

I do not have much free time either but I do have quite a lot of experience dealing with/interpreting legislation and all things law.
Id be more than happy to help out in that regard, so just shout when need be.

Reactions: Like 3


----------



## Rellik

@Silver , Done. Sorry I thought I had already done that. Supposed to be a noob at vaping, not forums !


----------



## Vaper Rising

devdev said:


> Yes, this is certainly something that has been kicked around in the past, and as I recall, it is totally in conceptual stage and did not go any further.
> 
> If I had the time, and the patience then I would probably do it.
> 
> If anyone is interested in working on it, let me know, and maybe as a group effort we could get something going?
> 
> We would need:
> 
> 1. A committee of committed committee members (think tank)
> 2. A person with graphic design capabilities
> 3. Someone who can do basic website and maintenance
> 4. A few folks who write well/enjoy writing/drafting documents
> 5. Someone to interpret the legislation
> 
> The think tank would need to assess the current position and identify potential threats in the future. We would also need to identify and propose a strategy to promote edukashun about vaping, and to counter the evil propaganda of Big Pharma and Big Tobacco


----------



## Vaper Rising

Well, as a journo, I can definitely help with the odd bit of writing if needed!

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


----------



## Chef Guest

All, I would like to suggest a meeting of those few who are prepared to take up the cause!

Probably the Joburgers, as that's where @devdev, @Silver, and I are based (The guys I know personally)

I'm prepared to make the time for this.

VIVA LA REVOLUTION!

Reactions: Winner 1


----------



## Stroodlepuff

Im in, will help where I can

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Silver

Chef Guest said:


> All, I would like to suggest a meeting of those few who are prepared to take up the cause!
> 
> Probably the Joburgers, as that's where @devdev, @Silver, and I are based (The guys I know personally)
> 
> I'm prepared to make the time for this.
> 
> VIVA LA REVOLUTION!


 
@Chef Guest - you have such a great vibe and such a wonderful way with words!

As I said previously, I will add value where I can - time permitting


----------



## MarkK

I am with @KimH and @Stroodlepuff , will help where ever and when ever I can


----------



## Chef Guest

Thank you @Silver, @MarkK, @Stroodlepuff and everyone else. 

Got a fire under my arse at the moment! Best I utilise it asap!

Sent from the Dark Side of The Force


----------



## Metal Liz

I'm also willing to help out where I can, just give me a shout wherever a hand is needed 

sent from a Reo & MVP happy cloud


----------



## Marzuq

im a willing helper. 
will offer what ever time i have to spare in whatever ways i can


----------



## Vaper Rising

Greetings all. I'd like to bounce something very important off everyone in the forum, which has bearing on the issue of how vaping is perceived by the South African community at large, and - in turn - on future prohibitions/restrictions in terms of law. Needless to say, the outcome has massive repercussions for suppliers large and small, and of course for every one of us in the vaping community.

As some of you may know (having read my recent, well-received _Cape Argus_ article), I am a freelance journalist. I am also a veteran copywriter, editor and well-regarded scriptwriter-producer, with extensive experience in both corporate and broadcast TV (inserts; documentaries, etc.)

I'd like to use my skills to make _the ultimate_ slick, professional, informative and entertaining documentary on vaping; a multi-purpose production that can be uploaded to _uTube_, used on supplier-sites, and - hopefully - screened on national television.

In a nutshell, I'd like to shoot in Joeys, Durbs and Slaapstad, interviewing key industry players; attending vape meets; talking to vaping pros and gear collectors; grabbing _vox pops_ from smokers and anti-smokers in the street, in clubs and in restaurants, as well as getting input from medical professionals and researchers, if possible. I reckon we'd be looking at around 12-15 minutes in length (which can always be edited down for different applications).

I've bounced the idea off an associate who owns a small production company/facility near me (who is also a producer, director and veteran, shit-hot editor). He's fired up to work with me on this project, but - even if we slash our own rates to Cape Town rock-bottom - the production is going to cost bucks. 

Quite apart from the time spent in pre-production on writing, researching, 'storyboarding' and shoot co-ordination, there are the actual production costs of crew and gear-hire (lighting, sound and camera), transport, consumables, accommodation, etc, and finally, post-production, i.e. graphics and editing.

I am sure that, being a community, _ecigssa_ members will help out wherever they can, but essentially, we need upfront financial assistance to get the production off the ground, asap. 

I will do some number-crunching and revert with a ballpark figure, but urgently need an enthusiastic show of hands regarding assistance with formal sponsorship and/or crowd-funding.

Thank you in anticipation for sharing my excitement.

Reactions: Winner 1


----------



## Paulie

This is awesome news and exciting and if done correctly could help out the vaping industry as well as provide useful information to the South African community. In the last few days i have noticed an increase in our local media around this. Most importantly is if we could help stop people smoking (stinkies) cigarettes!!.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Optimistic 1


----------



## Marzuq

Vaper Rising said:


> Greetings all. I'd like to bounce something very important off everyone in the forum, which has bearing on the issue of how vaping is perceived by the South African community at large, and - in turn - on future prohibitions/restrictions in terms of law. Needless to say, the outcome has massive repercussions for suppliers large and small, and of course for every one of us in the vaping community.
> 
> As some of you may know (having read my recent, well-received _Cape Argus_ article), I am a freelance journalist. I am also a veteran copywriter, editor and well-regarded scriptwriter-producer, with extensive experience in both corporate and broadcast TV (inserts; documentaries, etc.)
> 
> I'd like to use my skills to make _the ultimate_ slick, professional, informative and entertaining documentary on vaping; a multi-purpose production that can be uploaded to _uTube_, used on supplier-sites, and - hopefully - screened on national television.
> 
> In a nutshell, I'd like to shoot in Joeys, Durbs and Slaapstad, interviewing key industry players; attending vape meets; talking to vaping pros and gear collectors; grabbing _vox pops_ from smokers and anti-smokers in the street, in clubs and in restaurants, as well as getting input from medical professionals and researchers, if possible. I reckon we'd be looking at around 12-15 minutes in length (which can always be edited down for different applications).
> 
> I've bounced the idea off an associate who owns a small production company/facility near me (who is also a producer, director and veteran, shit-hot editor). He's fired up to work with me on this project, but - even if we slash our own rates to Cape Town rock-bottom - the production is going to cost bucks.
> 
> Quite apart from the time spent in pre-production on writing, researching, 'storyboarding' and shoot co-ordination, there are the actual production costs of crew and gear-hire (lighting, sound and camera), transport, consumables, accommodation, etc, and finally, post-production, i.e. graphics and editing.
> 
> I am sure that, being a community, _ecigssa_ members will help out wherever they can, but essentially, we need upfront financial assistance to get the production off the ground, asap.
> 
> I will do some number-crunching and revert with a ballpark figure, but urgently need an enthusiastic show of hands regarding assistance with formal sponsorship and/or crowd-funding.
> 
> Thank you in anticipation for sharing my excitement.


 

sounds like creating an awareness to maintain the current vape situation or even grow it is essential. i doubt very much anyone on this forum would be anti supporting this campaign. however the most important factor being the cost factor. once there is a ballpark im certain there will be a greater show of hands based on affordability to each individual.

i personally like the pro-active idea. and i wait anxiously to see what follows.

big up!!


----------



## Vaper Rising

Cool banana-flavours for the positive response so far.

Production length is a major factor influencing the budget, not so much from a scripting and producing POV (as I would not charge normal commercial rates), but what has the greatest impact on cost is the actual shooting (camera-operators, gear-hire, and travel-related expenses), as well as editing time. It is obviously vital that the video covers a selection of manufacturers, suppliers/retailers (and vapers) in the major centres of JHB, Dbn and Cape Town, to be representative. (On reflection, 8 - 10 minutes probably allows adequate time to cover diverse issues, while not becoming too long-winded.) Obviously all sponsors/contributors would get a mention, which is open for discussion. Regardless of who is in the documentary and who isn't, though, this is something that will benefit EVERYONE!


----------



## kimbo

@Vaper Rising if i were in a major center i would be happy to take part and help were i can, i am sure you had a look at my site and saw what vaping did for me.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Vaper Rising

kimbo said:


> @Vaper Rising if i were in a major center i would be happy to take part and help were i can, i am sure you had a look at my site and saw what vaping did for me.


 
Wonderful! You are an awesome story all on your own. Perhaps we can work in a draai to Freestate to interview you. All grist to the mill, as they say. Are you in Bloem?

Reactions: Thanks 1


----------



## kimbo

Vaper Rising said:


> Wonderful! You are an awesome story all on your own. Perhaps we can work in a draai to Freestate to interview you. All grist to the mill, as they say. Are you in Bloem?


 
Closer to Welkom, i marked were i live on the map (http://www.ecigssa.co.za/threads/where-are-you-located.957/)
Mine is the alone flag in the center lol


----------



## hands

is it not possible to sell some product placement to some of the big ecig manufacturers. i don't know how this works just a idea.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Vaper Rising

hands said:


> is it not possible to sell some product placement to some of the big ecig manufacturers. i don't know how this works just a idea.


 
It _is_ an excellent idea. I would like every single manufacturer and supplier in SA to be featured in some way though, whether it be through interviews, or just via subtle product placement. However, major contributors to the production would be formally recognised in the credits as official sponsors, with logos. I haven't approached anybody privately yet, and am eagerly awaiting input (hello there) from the key players on this forum, as to what the consensus is. Having done my own very informal survey in Cape Town, I can see that the practice is on the up - which means a clampdown is bound to come, so we need to get working on this, and a general _modus operandi_ asap. I'm sure we are agreed that it would be a travesty if all of us who have quit smoking were to once again be lumped together with analog-puffers, and barred from indoor vaping!


----------



## Vaper Rising

John Maytham (_Cape Talk_) was discussing 'twisps' (in the generic sense) this afternoon, and a listener messaged him to say that the Twisp kiosk in Cavendish Square, Claremont, CT, turns over* 70 k a month*!!! The bucks are out there.


----------



## Vaper Rising

Vaper Rising said:


> John Maytham (_Cape Talk_) was discussing 'twisps' (in the generic sense) this afternoon, and a listener messaged him to say that the Twisp kiosk in Cavendish Square, Claremont, CT, turns over* 70 k a month*!!! The bucks are out there.


 
Just a quick P.S. If anyone feels my approach to this mini-documentary/magazine insert concept is inappropriate, please let me know. I'm a spontaneous and impulsive troubleshooter who likes to find quick, creative ways to get a job done, but I am also very practical and polite - and especially sensitive to protocol. Please message me directly if you feel uncomfortable discussing the idea in public, or if you can give some feedback as to where to go with it. I'm meeting with my colleague tomorrow to discuss budget, and would like to give him a positive report, at least.


----------



## nadeemthewriter

Yo guys, I've been researching the legalities of Vaping and what we could do to keep Vaping. I'm willing to help out on design and production. 

I have a post production studio and the ability to craft a super video for us. My rates are good though, so hit me up @Vaper Rising

Also, I'm very new to this forum, but have been Dry-herb vaping for a while. My product of choice is the Vaporite Budy Pen Pro.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Vaper Rising

nadeemthewriter said:


> Yo guys, I've been researching the legalities of Vaping and what we could do to keep Vaping. I'm willing to help out on design and production.
> 
> I have a post production studio and the ability to craft a super video for us. My rates are good though, so hit me up @Vaper Rising
> 
> Also, I'm very new to this forum, but have been Dry-herb vaping for a while. My product of choice is the Vaporite Budy Pen Pro.


 
Hi fellow writer/producer! I am sorted with production facilities, thanks. The issue is one of production sponsorship, as there will naturally be costs involved if one wants a slick, professional job done. The clampdown is coming! BTW, I'm fascinated by the dry-herb concept. Amazing. Best, M


----------



## nadeemthewriter

@Vaper Rising Well yeah, the Dry Herb Vape is awesome, it basically does all I need. Delivery is smooth though.


----------



## Flavor man

paulph201 said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I was just curious if there are any organisations that are available or if its in the pipeline to help prevent (ant vape laws) or at least provide the vaping community with information around vaping in south Africa and the laws?
> 
> My reason for this is I am seeing a trend overseas (more usa) and would like to know your thoughts or info?

Reactions: Thanks 1


----------



## Flavor man

A lot of research is being done in the USA and Europe into flavours for ecigs. Flavours consist of virtually hundreds of aroma chemicals and a lot of guess work is being done as to the possible side effects these chemicals can have when inhaled. Certain aromas have now been identified as being possibly harmful. Diacetyl is one. Diacetyl is found naturally in Cheese and butter. It is not a problem to remove Diacetyl from a formula, or other potentially harmful ingredients. As these flavours are used in ecigs and not in food stuff. One will pick up a difference in foods, but unlikely will one notice a difference in vapours


----------



## K_klops

devdev said:


> Yes, this is certainly something that has been kicked around in the past, and as I recall, it is totally in conceptual stage and did not go any further.
> 
> If I had the time, and the patience then I would probably do it.
> 
> If anyone is interested in working on it, let me know, and maybe as a group effort we could get something going?
> 
> We would need:
> 
> 1. A committee of committed committee members (think tank)
> 2. A person with graphic design capabilities
> 3. Someone who can do basic website and maintenance
> 4. A few folks who write well/enjoy writing/drafting documents
> 5. Someone to interpret the legislation
> 
> The think tank would need to assess the current position and identify potential threats in the future. We would also need to identify and propose a strategy to promote edukashun about vaping, and to counter the evil propaganda of Big Pharma and Big Tobacco


I would be more than happy to assist in any way necessary in the legal aspects. Interpretation, case law, statutes, bills as well as drafting as i am a legal student and do part time work, so all the resources are easily available to me. I would love to be apart of this.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Vaper Rising

I am also deeply concerned. Every moment of freely vaping in restaurants, pubs and supermarkets feels like my last - and that someone is going to bust me! I guess we all feel like that. I try to educate where I can. I have the resources, background, know-how, talent and enthusiasm (having written a very well-received pro-vaping article in the Cape Argus newspaper some months ago, and being a former TV producer) to create a well-scripted, generic, informative short video for TV and YouTube on vaping, but no one has - as yet - offered to fund me. As a freelancer, I cannot subsidise this! Unless the big players on the forum are prepared to club together, I guess we could look at crowdfunding a campaign... Perhaps we should talk about this.


----------



## Vaper Rising

K_klops said:


> I would be more than happy to assist in any way necessary in the legal aspects. Interpretation, case law, statutes, bills as well as drafting as i am a legal student and do part time work, so all the resources are easily available to me. I would love to be apart of this.


----------



## Rob Fisher

I doubt there is enough money in vaping at this moment that vendors and or vapers could raise the kind of money needed to do a one episode TV show or whether the TV stations would even flight such a show? Having been involved in ESA Bass TV shows on Supersport for some time as a presenter I got to know a little about TV production and costs and the politics and hassles involved in dealing with TV Channels.

I think the idea is a marvelous one but the costs of such a production and the politics of trying to get the episode flighted are pretty much out of the vapers league at the moment.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Optimistic 1


----------



## Vaper Rising

I received no response at all to my suggestion, which I felt was a great and logical idea. Before you look at legal stuff, you have to spread the word. The vast majority of people are utterly ignorant. Without media support, we are nothing as a community. 

I offer my services again to create a potent, short video piece that can be used on YouTube and TV, to further our cause. Surely everyone's lives (and many livelihoods) depend on this? I am very disappointed that I received no encouragement...


----------



## Vaper Rising

Rob Fisher said:


> I doubt there is enough money in vaping at this moment that vendors and or vapers could raise the kind of money needed to do a one episode TV show or whether the TV stations would even flight such a show? Having been involved in ESA Bass TV shows on Supersport for some time as a presenter I got to know a little about TV production and costs and the politics and hassles involved in dealing with TV Channels.
> 
> I think the idea is a marvelous one but the costs of such a production and the politics of trying to get the episode flighted are pretty much out of the vapers league at the moment.


----------



## Rob Fisher

Vaper Rising said:


> I received no response at all to my suggestion, which I felt was a great and logical idea. Before you look at legal stuff, you have to spread the word. The vast majority of people are utterly ignorant. Without media support, we are nothing as a community.
> 
> I offer my services again to create a potent, short video piece that can be used on YouTube and TV, to further our cause. Surely everyone's lives (and many livelihoods) depend on this? I am very disappointed that I received no encouragement...



I guess because not too many people are familiar with TV production etc... but maybe the way forward is to start with a home made YouTube video using an amateur video camera and simple video editing software?

Reactions: Agree 3 | Dislike 1


----------



## Vaper Rising

What do you think such a production (maybe five - eight minutes) would cost? Twisp alone could raise the bucks in a month! Even if I couldn't get it on local TV, the YouTube impact alone would be massive. Just - for argument's sake - say that I could do it for R50 000, wouldn't everyone who could afford to contribute something, throw it at this, just to keep SA vaping?


----------



## K_klops

The same applies legally. Poking the inevitable may become a costly consequence. Unfortunately it is a problem we are faced with currently. Most shops and garages are already getting involved in the action,by selling cig-alikes at their cigarette counters. Although this is great exposure for the vaping world, I personally think it may also cause some serious problems. It is definately only a matter of time before government puts its hand up to regulate vaping aswell. Taxes will be placed withouta doubt. If ccigarettes and alcohol sold at stores are taxed, the e-cig will definately be included in the legislatures list of sin taxed items to stop the youth and the general public but also so government can benefit from the booming market. Although vaping has no tobaco , it does have nicotine and combustion to create a "smoke like" product, wich may be read as the legislatures intention

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## Vaper Rising

Rob Fisher said:


> I guess because not too many people are familiar with TV production etc... but maybe the way forward is to start with a home made YouTube video using an amateur video camera and simple video editing software?



No, that is entirely the wrong approach! It lacks 'cred'. Too backyard. You have to put a slick little well-researched doccie together, with interviews and visits to at least three major centres!


----------



## Vaper Rising

K_klops said:


> The same applies legally. Poking the inevitable may become a costly consequence. Unfortunately it is a problem we are faced with currently. Most shops and garages are already getting involved in the action,by selling cig-alikes at their cigarette counters. Although this is great exposure for the vaping world, I personally think it may also cause some serious problems. It is definately only a matter of time before government puts its hand up to regulate vaping aswell. Taxes will be placed withouta doubt. If ccigarettes and alcohol sold at stores are taxed, the e-cig will definately be included in the legislatures list of sin taxed items to stop the youth and the general public but also so government can benefit from the booming market. Although vaping has no tobaco , it does have nicotine and combustion to create a "smoke like" product, wich may be read as the legislatures intention



So, let us be taxed, not banned.


----------



## K_klops

Apologies, I forgot to state reference to the tobaco products control act, of which there are many amendments

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Vaper Rising

Vaper Rising said:


> No, that is entirely the wrong approach! It lacks 'cred'. Too backyard. You have to put a slick little well-researched doccie together, with interviews and visits to at least three major centres!



If every supplier and every vaper had a link to this, it would be huge. I know my stuff, believe me!


----------



## Rob Fisher

Vaper Rising said:


> What do you think such a production (maybe five - eight minutes) would cost? Twisp alone could raise the bucks in a month! Even if I couldn't get it on local TV, the YouTube impact alone would be massive. Just - for argument's sake - say that I could do it for R50 000, wouldn't everyone who could afford to contribute something, throw it at this, just to keep SA vaping?



Yes Twisp could but they are not really playing in the forums so they will probably never see this post.

And yes R50,000 is the minimum it would take.

And if there was a guarantee that an 8 minute video could guarantee that vaping would be left alone there is no question that everyone would contribute. But this would be a gamble... make a few YouTube video's showing the community just what can be achieved and how it comes across and you may just get a taker or two. But to ask perfect strangers who don't know you from Adam to give you fifty grand or more is kinda expecting a little too much don't you think?

Don't get me wrong... I love the idea... You were asking why no one was engaging... I'm trying to answer that question and make suggestions on how to get the ball rolling.

Reactions: Winner 2


----------



## K_klops

I would not be surprised if government was already discussing taxation. I completely agree @vaperrising . Taxation is allot better than banning the products all together. Luckily enough in order to have it declared "illegal" is an extremely difficult process to just simply do. They would need to argue the negative aspects health wise...wich would just be worse for smoking, wich is legal and will be for a very long time. I will definately do some research into this as I am extremely intrigued now.


----------



## K_klops

It is not the most recent amendment. But it is just for the purpose of the definition of "tobaco product". Yes I know there is no tobaco in e-cigs but their is nicotine wich falls in the ambit and vaping is classified under "for the purpose of inhalation or human consumption". Just food for thaught that a new proposed amendment may be enacted with the words " electronic device" read into the act.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Dr Phil

I want to know y there is no vapeing Magazine out there, or am I wrong

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## K_klops

I completely agree @dr phill. Id love one..... it is a "hobby" so why not


----------



## Dr Phil

Magazine could have juice reviews mod reviews, tips on coil builds and so on.


----------



## K_klops

Great idea, but then again your best info on all things vaping will come from right here on the forum. Digital explosion of awesomness

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## BumbleBee

dr phil said:


> Magazine could have juice reviews mod reviews, tips on coil builds and so on.


Great idea, magazines are cool, however the market isn't nearly big enough to justify a printed magazine, especially in this digital era. All that info is already available right here, for free.

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## Vaper Rising

Rob Fisher said:


> Yes Twisp could but they are not really playing in the forums so they will probably never see this post.
> 
> And yes R50,000 is the minimum it would take.
> 
> And if there was a guarantee that an 8 minute video could guarantee that vaping would be left alone there is no question that everyone would contribute. But this would be a gamble... make a few YouTube video's showing the community just what can be achieved and how it comes across and you may just get a taker or two. But to ask perfect strangers who don't know you from Adam to give you fifty grand or more is kinda expecting a little too much don't you think?
> 
> Don't get me wrong... I love the idea... You were asking why no one was engaging... I'm trying to answer that question and make suggestions on how to get the ball rolling.



Absolutely fair enough! But there could never be a guarantee. No product or concept ever has a guarantee! What is needed is not a few YouTube videos, though, but one great one - and not produced by amateurs. I have been in diverse media for 30 years, as a copywriter, ad agency creative director, scriptwriter, producer and journalist, etc.. My CV is 'skrik-vir-niks'! I am happy to forward a proposal to anyone who expresses interest.

Perfect strangers? No. We are united in our aim.

And, after all, every crowdfunding project is only on good faith.


----------



## Rob Fisher

Vaper Rising said:


> Perfect strangers? No. We are united in our aim.



No argument there! But would be nice if we saw more of you on the forums and got to know you a bit more.

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## Gizmo

I agree with Rob on this topic. I feel this media endeavour to promote vaping in a positive light is the greatest thing since low ohm coils. I also agree that one video is key to igniting the discussion with the ignorant ones. 

However, marketing in this era is really something else and at its core is online, not traditional forms marketing. If the message is strong enough it goes viral REGARDLESS. For example if you search "Can we autocorrect humanity" on YouTube you will see it has over 2M views in ONE week. Yup.. Also if you look at his channel he was relatively unknown before that. There's the proof in the pudding. 

Now myself and other vapers are more then keen to be involved but 5mins of primetime should not be the focus. Content should be.

Reactions: Agree 4


----------



## Gizmo

Here is the video that got 2.6M in one week:

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Silver

Vaper Rising said:


> Absolutely fair enough! But there could never be a guarantee. No product or concept ever has a guarantee! What is needed is not a few YouTube videos, though, but one great one - and not produced by amateurs. I have been in diverse media for 30 years, as a copywriter, ad agency creative director, scriptwriter, producer and journalist, etc.. My CV is 'skrik-vir-niks'! I am happy to forward a proposal to anyone who expresses interest.
> 
> Perfect strangers? No. We are united in our aim.
> 
> And, after all, every crowdfunding project is only on good faith.



Hi @Vaper Rising 

I have read your posts on this issue and I understand where you are coming from. You are obviously an expert in the field of producing such a video and getting it done. That's great. 

But your approach I do feel is a bit strong. It's as if you are reprimanding everyone for not taking you up on your offer to produce something that is admittedly very expensive.

I think @Rob Fisher 's suggestion of a good Youtube video done at low cost may have 80% of the impact. Return on investment on that is much better in my view. Also, given there are no guarantees in the outcome of such a video, this is surely a better route to go - at first.

I have a few questions for you and apologies if I may have missed them in the earlier threads

1) What would such a production cost - that you are proposing?

2) What would be the key messages in that video that you propose?

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Gizmo

He was completely unknown until his first video:


----------



## Vaper Rising

Gizmo said:


> I agree with Rob on this topic. I feel this media endeavour to promote vaping in a positive light is the greatest thing since low ohm coils. I also agree that one video is key to igniting the discussion with the ignorant ones.
> 
> However, marketing in this era is really something else and at its core is online, not traditional forms marketing. If the message is strong enough it goes viral REGARDLESS. For example if you search "Can we autocorrect humanity" on YouTube you will see it has over 2M views in ONE week. Yup.. Also if you look at his channel he was relatively unknown before that. There's the proof in the pudding.
> 
> Now myself and other vapers are more then keen to be involved but 5mins of primetime should not be the focus. Content should be.




I absolutely agree that content is paramount, and that prime-time should not be the focus. However, the general public is extremely lazy and largely unlikely to bother to research issues. Kneejerk reactions rule. Look at all the (clearly incorrect) rubbish that gets shared on Facebook by those with blinkers on. As a reputable journo, veteran scriptwriter, producer and ad agency creative director, I know what makes people tick. The basic information should be available to all in one top-notch, accessible production on YouTube, but with the bonus of being able to repackage this info for screening on TV!


----------



## Silver

@Gizmo, i watched that video of Prince Ea you posted further up - 
Thanks for posting it
This guy is a Legend! One of the most impactful few minutes of video i have seen for a long long time
Absolutely amazing

This guy is really legendary and i agree with you that the content and message is the most important thing. 
This video proves that perfectly

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Vaper Rising

Silver said:


> Hi @Vaper Rising
> 
> I have read your posts on this issue and I understand where you are coming from. You are obviously an expert in the field of producing such a video and getting it done. That's great.
> 
> But your approach I do feel is a bit strong. It's as if you are reprimanding everyone for not taking you up on your offer to produce something that is admittedly very expensive.
> 
> I think @Rob Fisher 's suggestion of a good Youtube video done at low cost may have 80% of the impact. Return on investment on that is much better in my view. Also, given there are no guarantees in the outcome of such a video, this is surely a better route to go - at first.
> 
> I have a few questions for you and apologies if I may have missed them in the earlier threads
> 
> 1) What would such a production cost - that you are proposing?
> 
> 2) What would be the key messages in that video that you propose?



I agree that my approach was a bit strong (and I humbly apologise). I am a hot-headed proactive creative, and it was just to counteract the surprisingly flaccid response. 

Yes, a GOOD YouTube video is vital; not some overly-art-studenty, amateur stuff! I'm not sure if you read my Cape Argus article in May, but the key messages - off the top of my head - would be (not in order of priority): a) Ingredients in cigarettes, compared with vape-juice ingredients - as this is the crucial issue that both pro- and anti-smoking lobbyists level at vapers; b) results of research into vaping, and actual number-crunching; c) testimonials/case studies from vapers - who are almost all, in effect, ex-smokers - as opposed to 13-year-old hookah-pipe-smoking learner addicts (which is so often put out there as a comparison); d) endorsements from the medical community; e) debunking the nicotine issue; f) interviews with vapers (individually and at meets); g) talking to owners of establishments such as bars and restaurants - and let's not forget the office environment/trains/buses - about the real versus imagined effects of 'second-hand vape'; h) taking a look at existing legislation and giving an informed, united opinion on how to proceed. 

This approach - as opposed to some funky 'look how cool we are' hand-held home-made production - will have the necessary cred. I reckon we are probably looking at eight to ten minutes, to achieve this. I am reluctant to give a thumbsuck figure on this forum at this point, as everyone with a video camera and a pc with editing software will leap into the fray - but for those of you who are interested, this is what I would base the quote on: 

*PRE-PRODUCTION*

*? (7 days)?*

Research & script: 5 days

Planning: 2 days

*PRODUCTION (SHOOT)*

*? (5 days)?*

CT: 2 days

JHB, PTA (& Welkom): 2 days

Durban: 1 day


*Crew:*

Camera-operator, incl. sound & lighting, plus gear

Producer/Director

*Other costs*

Flights; car hire; petrol; accommodation; meals; consumables


*POST-PRODUCTION *

*? (10 days)?*

Checking through and editing material 

Flat art scanning/digital image downloading/uploading

Opening graphics/FX 

Titling

Music & sound stock
*
Voice-over
*


----------



## Gizmo

The first video he did was even more impressive. Look at this one Irnest

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Silver

Hi @Vaper Rising 

Thanks for all the info in your post

But with all due respect to your expertise in your industry, you havent answered my questions

What would such a thing cost?
And what are the key messages you propose to convey?

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Stroodlepuff

dr phil said:


> I want to know y there is no vapeing Magazine out there, or am I wrong



There is one  http://vapenewsmagazine.com/


----------



## Silver

Gizmo said:


> The first video he did was even more impressive. Look at this one Irnest




Saw it @Gizmo, in fact my wife and I were so impressed with him, we found him on Youtube and watched it. And the one on how to combat stress in 60 seconds

This guy is great. I think he will go far.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## Vaper Rising

Rob Fisher said:


> No argument there! But would be nice if we saw more of you on the forums and got to know you a bit more.



You are totally right. I have been desperately busy though. I'm a sole breadwinning, freelance single mom with three kids (two school-going): one in grade three and one in matric) and I'm busy separating from the father of my nine-year-old son, so I haven't had much time at my disposal, PLUS - I've been working 18 hours p/d for four weeks - and have had chronic vape-gear failure (dead batteries and dead coils), so I have been smoking. I have hated it, but there are no suppliers nearby where I live. Those are just a few reasons why I've been so quiet.


----------



## Silver

Vaper Rising said:


> You are totally right. I have been desperately busy though. I'm a sole breadwinning, freelance single mom with three kids (two school-going): one in grade three and one in matric) and I'm busy separating from the father of my nine-year-old son, so I haven't had much time at my disposal, PLUS - I've been working 18 hours p/d for four weeks - and have had chronic vape-gear failure (dead batteries and dead coils), so I have been smoking. I have hated it, but there are no suppliers nearby where I live. Those are just a few reasons why I've been so quiet.



Sorry to hear about your situatiom @Vaper Rising 
That really sounds like a major crazy time and a stressful one too
Hope it all gets better for you 

As for the vape gear fatigue, i hope you can get sorted there. Cant you order some vape gear online from one of the retailers ? Wishing you all the best to get back on the vaping train and off the stinkies.

Reactions: Thanks 1


----------



## JakesSA

If @Vaper Rising can produce anything close to these videos for R50k it will be worth any penny and then some. 

I also agree that it needs to be professionally done. That rappers' video wasn't made in a day with a home camera and I am rather convinced not scripted by him either. Very carefully planned and executed on social media to hit an emotional angle to which social media followers are especially vulnerable. Brilliant! 

Since the forum is now a commercial entity can't it help sponsor vaping awareness, together with perhaps a funding drive? Doesn't have to happen overnight and can surely be co-managed independently?


----------



## Vaper Rising

Silver said:


> Saw it @Gizmo, in fact my wife and I were so impressed with him, we found him on Youtube and watched it. And the one on how to combat stress in 60 seconds
> 
> This guy is great. I think he will go far.



This WAS awesome and hard-hitting, but exquisitely scripted, beautifully filmed and slickly edited: in short a high-end, costly production!


----------



## Vaper Rising

Silver said:


> Sorry to hear about your situatiom @Vaper Rising
> That really sounds like a major crazy time and a stressful one too
> Hope it all gets better for you
> 
> As for the vape gear fatigue, i hope you can get sorted there. Cant you order some vape gear online from one of the retailers ? Wishing you all the best to get back on the vaping train and off the stinkies.



Heartfelt thanks. (xxx) It has been a super-kak few months... 

I trust you checked my post about the production breakdown and can extrapolate from there. I am a total perfectionist (not in my own life - clearly - but in terms of my work) and the only way to do a proper job is to do a proper job! Obviously it is deeply in my own interest that we can 'vape on', but I need to cover production costs.


----------



## Vaper Rising

Silver said:


> Hi @Vaper Rising
> 
> Thanks for all the info in your post
> 
> But with all due respect to your expertise in your industry, you havent answered my questions
> 
> What would such a thing cost?
> And what are the key messages you propose to convey?



Hope I've answered your questions, and then some!


----------



## Silver

Vaper Rising said:


> Hope I've answered your questions, and then some!



I hear you @Vaper Rising - but you havent answered the questions
Is it 50k, is it 100k, is it R200k ?

And regarding the key message, saying you want to interview various vapers and speak to bar owners etc, that is not saying what the key message is. Thats what the video will contain, but what is the key message you propose telling or getting across?


----------



## BumbleBee

This whole video story confuses me, why do we need this? There are tons of videos on the internet that we can just share on Facebook if we want to "spread the word" about vaping. I'm also pretty sure that every vaper is promoting vaping by word of mouth. These methods are free, and they are working. I'm sorry but I just don't see the point of trying to raise R100000 from people that don't have it to give them something they don't need. Does this forum need a TV ad?

If we had that kind of money would it not be better used in some other way? Like maybe hiring a tour bus and doing a road trip across SA? Stop over in a few of the smaller towns and get their local radio stations to spread the word, maybe hand out a few starter kits along the way? I'm sure a few local newspapers would say something about this too.

Reactions: Agree 7


----------



## Gizmo

Vaper Rising said:


> This WAS awesome and hard-hitting, but exquisitely scripted, beautifully filmed and slickly edited: in short a high-end, costly production!



I disagree, I could edit that video in Adobe premier easily. All it is, is good cutting and good angles. There is no special affects in the first one. A good camera was used yes. But that editing was truly not hard.

I actually have experience, I know Adobe Aftereffects very well as well as premier.

This interview proves he didn't have no big budget, and with a channel with about 5,000 subscribers before his first video I can also guarantee there was no big budget.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Vaper Rising

Silver said:


> I hear you @Vaper Rising - but you havent answered the questions
> Is it 50k, is it 100k, is it R200k ?
> 
> And regarding the key message, saying you want to interview various vapers and speak to bar owners etc, that is not saying what the key message is. Thats what the video will contain, but what is the key message you propose telling or getting across?


----------



## Vaper Rising

I guess, based on research and general public feedback, what we should be getting out there is that vaping is NOT smoking, but a far safer, medically-researched alternative that is less harmful to both vapers themselves, and those exposed to the vapour - and furthermore that banning or harshly restricting vaping will only force many to resume the deadly practice of smoking (which costs the state millions in healthcare). 

That's just my take. It's important to hear what other forum members think the key message/s should be. 

In terms of cost, I reckon that if one 'shot smart' and frugally, one could do a production such as outlined for around 50K.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Vaper Rising

Vaper Rising said:


> I guess, based on research and general public feedback, what we should be getting out there is that vaping is NOT smoking, but a far safer, medically-researched alternative that is less harmful to both vapers themselves, and those exposed to the vapour - and furthermore that banning or harshly restricting vaping will only force many to resume the deadly practice of smoking (which costs the state millions in healthcare).
> 
> That's just my take. It's important to hear what other forum members think the key message/s should be.
> 
> In terms of cost, I reckon that if one 'shot smart' and frugally, one could do a production such as outlined for around 50K.



P.S. For those who missed it, here's a link to the Cape Times story I did. 

http://www.iol.co.za/news/clearing-the-air-on-e-cigarettes-1.1712673

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## JakesSA

I think I'll hammer this some more...

We stand here, all 1000+ members of the forum and extol the virtues of vaping amongst ourselves (and it does make for a great support group) and some even to smokers outside the forum. This however has very little impact on the general non smoking public who should actually be informed in order to pre-empt massive negative opinion (and knee jerk legislation) created by continuing sensationalist headlines that read only one thing: "Vaping is Toxic!"

Prince EA in the videos is playing to a sense of guilt modern society has, it is his trademark and he even has a clothing line to support it.
What will we say?
"Yo yo, listen up, vapin' is gonna be better for 'em than stinky ol' tabaccas" ... it ain't gonna cut it .. (and now you know why my rapping career never really took off!)

To influence the general public will require empathy from them, and I know exactly zero non smokers who have compassion for a smoker/vaper .. excluding their moms that is.

Maybe the "big corporates trying to squash the little guys who came up with a viable solution all on their own" angle? On a lighter note, what about "Vapers spend big bucks on gear and liquid to ensure a safer environment for all!" (No quips about exploding batteries please!)

So I throw the gauntlet, forget the video, forget the platform, tell me the message? 
The one that doesn't make the average Joe say, "Ummm .. why don't they just quit?" but rather "I gotta tell my buddy John about this, get him off those stinkies once and for all!" and comments "nou praat jy k$#" when the next ludicrous "vaping is a public health threat" article/comment appears..

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 2 | Optimistic 1


----------



## kimbo

@JakesSA i think why the success rate of quitting smoking and starting to vape is so high, it's more of swop a unhealthy habit for a healthier one. Most ppl who do that as a stepping stone to stop smoking find themselves enjoying the vaping so much that they dont see the need to take the next step, they feel allot better, they smell better, ppl around them treat them better.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Silver

@JakesSA - i love your post

Focusing on the message here is the most important

You have touched on some good points
I like your messsage about vaping making a safer environment for all - ie. Less harmful to others

Extra messages could be
- its much safer than smoking according to initial medical research 
- think of the lower health costs from less people being on state hospital treatment for smoking related disease 
- fostering the development of small business and job creation

Lets build on these messages.....

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## Vaper Rising

I hear your anger and I love your war-cry. (And you write very well, BTW!) Actually, I've had nothing but positive feedback here in the Cape from the many non-smokers in front of whom I vape and to whom I have introduced the notion - literally all over. They are far readier to embrace this than the ignorant rookers who challenge me daily with utter crap. Two weeks ago some woman (ex-vaper) said her uncle had died from water on the lungs because he had stopped smoking and started vaping. "The GP said so." On Friday night I had a fight with an obnoxious guy who smokes 50-a-day and told me that "It's been proven that vaping encourages 13-year-olds to smoke." This enrages and galvanises me into action. If I could, I woulI have been a missionary (even when smoking) for the cause, but I promise you that we need literature ... we need a production to come out of SA.


kimbo said:


> @JakesSA i think why the success rate of quitting smoking and starting to vape is so high, it's more of swop a unhealthy habit for a healthier one. Most ppl who do that as a stepping stone to stop smoking find themselves enjoying the vaping so much that they dont see the need to take the next step, they feel allot better, they smell better, ppl around them treat them better.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Vaper Rising

Of course we must agree that vaping is replacing one addiction with another. Perhaps that is what bothers people. But what astounds me is the ignorance of the masses. Tonight, I checked a Facebook post to me that said, "I wouldn't touch that shit with a bargepole. At least I know I'm smoking a natural product. Not something man-made." Huh? Say whaaaaaaaaaaaat?!!!


----------



## kimbo

Like Marilyn Manson say .. You cant see the forest from the trees .. you cant smell your own shit on your knees. I think that is the life of a smoker, how many here can tell you that they did not know that a cigarette stinks so much, that smoke takes over your whole life without you knowing it. It is like the cigarette / smoke conditions you to just see what you wanna see, smell what you wanna smell. And when you make that decision to start vaping your eye's open and you see/smell for the first time. You cant believe that was the life you led by choice, most of us can tell you their own story of how awful that find cigarettes now.

Reactions: Like 2 | Can relate 2


----------



## Vaper Rising

kimbo said:


> Like Marilyn Manson say .. You cant see the forest from the trees .. you cant smell your own shit on your knees. I think that is the life of a smoker, how many here can tell you that they did not know that a cigarette stinks so much, that smoke takes over your whole life without you knowing it. It is like the cigarette / smoke conditions you to just see what you wanna see, smell what you wanna smell. And when you make that decision to start vaping your eye's open and you see/smell for the first time. You cant believe that was the life you led by choice, most of us can tell you their own story of how awful that find cigarettes now.



Kimbo, you know I want to interview you! I think someone like you, in a well-produced video, would be awesome. I look forward to meeting you some day soon.

Reactions: Thanks 1


----------



## kimbo

Vaper Rising said:


> Kimbo, you know I want to interview you! I think someone like you, in a well-produced video, would be awesome. I look forward to meeting you some day soon.



Ditto 
Well then i must work on my "boere english"


----------



## Vaper Rising

kimbo said:


> Ditto
> Well then i must work on my "boere english"



Ha ha! My Afrikaans is taamlik vlot, maar ek praat so bietjie 'Kaaps'.


----------



## kimbo

Vaper Rising said:


> Ha ha! My Afrikaans is taamlik vlot, maar ek praat so bietjie 'Kaaps'.



well make the interview afrikaans with sub titles


----------



## Kuhlkatz

Vaper Rising said:


> Tonight, I checked a Facebook post to me that said, "I wouldn't touch that shit with a bargepole. At least I know I'm smoking a natural product. Not something man-made." Huh? Say whaaaaaaaaaaaat?!!!



I hope you pointed them to the Wikipedia list of 599 tobacco additives approved by the FDA here or a similar page somewhere (Just like any other stuff, it must be true because I read it on the internetz ) Let them work through the list for themselves and see how 'natural' those additives are.

What they should also take into consideration is that one line on the intro paragraph, just below the list of the big 5 American tobacco companies :


Wikipedia said:


> One significant issue is that while all these chemical compounds have been approved as additives to food, *they were not tested by burning.* Burning changes the properties of chemicals. More than 4,000 chemical compounds are created by burning a cigarette, 69 of which are carcinogenic. Toxic gases such as carbon monoxide, hydrogen cyanide, nitrogen oxides and ammonia are found in cigarette smoke.[1][2]


Just like the stuff we vape, none of the shizz in ciggies were tested for inhalation or by burning it - most of them were meant for ingesting as food additives and they are lucky that _*ONLY*_ 69 of the 4000+ chemical compounds are carcinogenic.

The thing that bugs me most is clueless smokers that are far more critical of vapers and vaping than most non-smokers would ever be. To me they are just like people that think nothing of raiding the office stationery cupboards for pens, paper and other stuff for their own use and then turn around to ***** and complain about the high level of crime in South Africa.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


----------



## kimbo

Silver said:


> @JakesSA - i love your post
> 
> Focusing on the message here is the most important
> 
> You have touched on some good points
> I like your messsage about vaping making a safer environment for all - ie. Less harmful to others
> 
> Extra messages could be
> - its much safer than smoking according to initial medical research
> - think of the lower health costs from less people being on state hospital treatment for smoking related disease
> - fostering the development of small business and job creation
> 
> Lets build on these messages.....



Idea ..

Play on the friendship angle, I know my friends have been trying for a long time to get me to stop.

Friends don't let friend ...
- Harm themselves
- Harm the ppl around them
- Shorten their life
- ...

The smokers themselves dont see what they are doing, aim this more to the friends and family of the smoker, get them to feel like they have to do something.

To aim this at smokers is a fart in the wind, they will just shrug it of and light another

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Silver

I think this is good discussion

Should the message be to try converrt smokers to become vapers 
or more focused on that regulators should not ban vaping?

These are two broad areas.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Arctus

Silver said:


> I think this is good discussion
> 
> Should the message be to try convert smokers to become vapers
> or more focused on that regulators should not ban vaping?
> 
> These are two broad areas.



I wouldn't try to convert smokers, most of us have either first hand or personal experience in trying this, until the smoker decides for themselves that they want change, trying to push them away from smoking will have the opposite effect, they will only push back harder.

Also, remember that currently we are currently taking the heat off of smokers, they have already been identified, vilified and restricted, we still have a miniscule chance, and our fate is still being discussed and debated, but smokers would like to see us fail just as much as big tobacco does,...misery loves company.

I would focus on regulators but indirectly, using a distinctly South African flavored approach: "We have the *right* to be healthy, *don't take away our* *freedom* to choose healthier alternatives", etc, etc.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## johan

My concern is how do you break down and pass any hard liner's believe system (smokers as well as hostile regulators)? As far as i'm aware of, the only method is, to get them involved by means of a sense of "ownership" / responsibility (i.e their own and others' health) - I think the assistance of a psychologist and/or behavioral scientist would be the first step, but thats just my opinion.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


----------



## Silver

I think before we make a video we need to have at least a page on our forum somewhere which summarises what we as vapers stand for and what our position is

Imagine if a regulator contacted the forum and said to us "ok, vapers, what is your point of view and what do you want"

Not saying this would happen, but at least if we have a page that sums up what we believe - then thats a start

Reactions: Agree 3


----------



## Arctus

Silver said:


> I think before we make a video we need to have at least a page on our forum somewhere which summarises what we as vapers stand for and what our position is
> 
> Imagine if a regulator contacted the forum and said to us "ok, vapers, what is your point of view and what do you want"
> 
> Not saying this would happen, but at least if we have a page that sums up what we believe - then that's a start



Good idea, and if you don't mind me adding to that, how about a thread dedicated to individuals own stories, no comments, no discussions just each individual telling his own story, how they were before vaping, how many cigarettes they smoked, how this affected them, why they decided to change, how the change came about, why they chose vaping, how long they have been vaping now and any difference they may have noticed.

I don't believe that a regulator would ever take the trouble to find out the details of something he was regulating on, but it doesn't hurt to tick all the boxes anyway.

Reactions: Like 3


----------



## kimbo

@Arctus have a look at the first article on my website, www.behcets.co.za

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Bumblebabe

Well done!!! 

A step in the right direction for sure.

@BumbleBee and I have been talking about the problem of what is going to happen to vaping laws in SA.
I as understand it, you guys have your facts in order and this is a real concern in the vaping community.

I am not at all saying this is the solution but merely want to make a suggestion.

I have been working with this group in our town and we had a meeting last night and now we have a branch here in Tzaneen, of which I am secretary.
It is not a political group and they fight for basic human rights. A part of it, is stopping silly laws in their tracks. They back us up with the law on our side and how to follow proper channels in order to get the best results. This I think will apply to what you guys are trying to prevent or avoid.

It may be a good idea to contact these people for advice. If you have your facts and proper reasons to appose these laws, I am sure they will listen and be able to advice you on what to do. These people know the law and bylaws and know what to do and even more importantly how to go about it.

Afriforum is country wide and have been doing great work to help towns and communities with bad service and mismanaged municipalities. What you are after would probably be the health department. 

So my suggestion is to contact the chairman in your town or area and get more information on how they could help you.
Here is a link to the provinces and then choose the town or city and it will give you the contact person.
https://www.afriforum.co.za/takke/gebiedskaart/

If anything is unclear, feel free to contact me.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


----------



## Arthster

Is this still going, and do you need more volunteers for this? I am getting pretty hole full of these so called doctors that takes kick back from MR tobacco to keep the poor smoker puffing on a time bomb.


----------



## Benjamin Cripps

If any legal help regarding vaping pops up, I am more than willing to help out.

Reactions: Like 4 | Thanks 1


----------



## Cat

Arctus said:


> I don't believe that a regulator would ever take the trouble to find out the details of something he was regulating on, but it doesn't hurt to tick all the boxes anyway.



So it is about avoiding banning, prohibition, not about avoiding that vaping/ejuice is taxed along with tobacco. 

Note that Johnny2Puffs told that smoking (use of tobacco products) is being banned in Australia for anyone born after year 2000. It is being phased out, it is going to be a prohibited substance. That is the intention of WHO (World Health Organisation) and the upper level anti-smoking organisations working with it. 

They have been fighting the big tobacco corporations. They have been winning, gradually. 
The problem here, the vaping context, is that the big tobacco corporations are also lobbying to get vaping taxed and/or banned, to bring it within their context along with tobacco. If they succeed, they will be [sort of] on our side, against the WHO - unless the WHO and anti-tobacco organisations understand and accept vaping as harm reduction, as a tool to quit the use of tobacco...but they would still be concerned that it is harmful in terms of fumes from heated ingredients.) 

The majority of people are stupid or foolish and ignorant, and this ball is moving fast; there is not enough time to educate them so as to have an influence on legislators. Anyway, the non-smokers don't care, so that leaves only the smokers, already a minority. 

The political reality: (1) governments like the tax revenue; (2) legislators are financially rewarded for helping big tobacco corporations; but (3) many governments - and SA is particularly so - are very aligned with United Nations organisations like WHO and the related NGOs. (I think it is primarily the Department of Health concerned in this.)


----------



## CloudSurfer

I'm In will assist where i can, i don't think we have to worry in to much of a hurry the clowns in the gov are pretty slow to the take but prevention is better than cure. we can run vape shebeens under the radar.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## devdev

Ok so I see this thread developed in my absence, and it may be time to necro it...

Instead of us searching for funding or personally raising the cash for a video production ourselves, why don't we assemble a liaison committee who can then engage with the media to increase awareness. There are numerous locally produced shows which have credibility in the eyes of the public. They can use their own production budgets to help us increase awareness. Imagine if Carte Blanche did a segment on vaping?

Remember they will try and get a balanced view. This will likely include interviewing smokers, vapers, retailers and government. There are also some truly amazing personal stories on here, and this should make for quite emotive viewing. There are also excellent resources available on the forum. We have technical, marketing, legal, analysts, IT professionals and a vast wealth of experience.

If we organised ourselves a bit I am sure 3 talk, Turd Degree, Carte Blance or similar type shows could be persuaded to give us a little exposure in exchange for an interesting story.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 6


----------



## gavin

The thing is nicotine has been classified when used as "a substitute for a tobacco product" as a schedule three substance. Schedule three substances require a prescription and should only be sold at pharmacies. If we make a lot of noise we may get noticed and the regulations applied.

The following is from http://www.ecigarette-politics.com/

"SOUTH AFRICA - Partial permission: two-tier system.

E-cigarettes and nicotine-free cartridges may be sold, but nicotine-containing refills are prohibited.

However, it appears that little or no enforcement action is taking place, therefore in practice all products are sold. It is believed that a ban may be in force on imports, and therefore import of e-liquid may be problematic for vendors.

http://mg.co.za/article/2013-09-06-00-e-cigarettes-cancer-risk-close-to-zero
From the above:
A change to the schedules published in terms of the Medicines and Related Substances Act last year (2012) classified nicotine when used as "a substitute for a tobacco product" as a schedule three substance. Schedule three substances require a prescription and should only be sold at pharmacies.
"The intent of the schedule three inscription was to clearly capture unregistered delivery devices containing nicotine, including electronic cigarettes," said Andy Gray of the University of KwaZulu-Natal's pharmacy department. "They cannot be considered to fall under the Tobacco Products Control Act because they do not contain tobacco."

http://www.beeld.com/Suid-Afrika/Nuus/E-twak-Rokers-kry-nog-reels-20120321 (March 2012)"


----------



## Nightwalker

Paulie said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I was just curious if there are any organisations that are available or if its in the pipeline to help prevent (ant vape laws) or at least provide the vaping community with information around vaping in south Africa and the laws?
> 
> My reason for this is I am seeing a trend overseas (more usa) and would like to know your thoughts or info?


The FDA says that our juice is unregulated and doesn't know the side effects blah blah blah, but all ingredients are regulated by them individually, go figure their logic. Then big tabaco pays the states money in direct proportion to how many cigarette's are sold. Now some states went ahead and sold bonds with the money they had not received yet and with the growing vapers and less smokers, they suddenly are in kak. So its in their best interest to fight for cigarette's. Once again, go figure.


----------



## Willan

Sign me up for the graphic and web stuff!!!


----------



## soofee

Im in to help in any way possible


----------



## Nightwalker

I'll be on the grounds if needed


----------



## Craig0

Hi all.
I believe our common enemy (besides the evil Mr Tobacco and his many underlings) is disinformation and lack of facts regarding vaping.

There simply isn't enough being done locally, not to mention globally to give people the necessary information to make the informed and subsequent life changing decision to put the cigs down. Complacency and peer pressure also deter a host of smokers. I too suffered the old " man, those things are worse than cigarettes " and " you're gonna get water on your lungs" nonsense. Not to mention countless references to my "moffie" cigarette at the time(green smoke). We are after all, creatures of habit.

Most smokers are lost in their habit, like being in a pitch dark room. They will aimlessly wonder around that room bumping their heads and shins forever. They fear change, for whatever reason. They prefer to stay in that dark room cause that's what they know. Some will never leave unless someone or something lights a candle. That's where we come in... 

We shouldn't make a video. We must make MANY videos, write blogs/books/pamphlets, print t-shirts, host workshops etc. We have to use all forms of media to help get the facts into people's heads. How about getting a couple of vaping doctors and lawyers on our side to assist with the struggle? Their opinions would carry more weight on the likes of Carte Balance.



The link above has reference to what I'm saying. The vid is only about 5 min long but the best part for me is from 3:20 in. There's no doubt in my mind that vaping is indeed a potentially world changing thing. More people just have to see it as that.

It'll be hard work boys and girls but I know that if this community of like minded brothers and sisters speak with one voice, we will be heard! Our number are growing by the day and soon we will be legion. Hell, I love vaping so much that I'm busy planning to open up a local vape shop so that I can get people to ditch the cigs while I make a living doing something I'm genuinely passionate about. Only we can preserve our vaping future folks. I, for one, will gladly offer my assistance, any way I can. Who's with me?

Vape long and prosper!
Craig0

Reactions: Like 8 | Agree 3 | Winner 2 | Thanks 1


----------



## Silver

I'm with you @Craig0 

Lovely post

We are trying hard on this forum to create a place where people can see just how life changing vaping can be.


----------



## Cobrali

Craig0 said:


> Hi all.
> I believe our common enemy (besides the evil Mr Tobacco and his many underlings) is disinformation and lack of facts regarding vaping.
> 
> There simply isn't enough being done locally, not to mention globally to give people the necessary information to make the informed and subsequent life changing decision to put the cigs down. Complacency and peer pressure also deter a host of smokers. I too suffered the old " man, those things are worse than cigarettes " and " you're gonna get water on your lungs" nonsense. Not to mention countless references to my "moffie" cigarette at the time(green smoke). We are after all, creatures of habit.
> 
> Most smokers are lost in their habit, like being in a pitch dark room. They will aimlessly wonder around that room bumping their heads and shins forever. They fear change, for whatever reason. They prefer to stay in that dark room cause that's what they know. Some will never leave unless someone or something lights a candle. That's where we come in...
> 
> We shouldn't make a video. We must make MANY videos, write blogs/books/pamphlets, print t-shirts, host workshops etc. We have to use all forms of media to help get the facts into people's heads. How about getting a couple of vaping doctors and lawyers on our side to assist with the struggle? Their opinions would carry more weight on the likes of Carte Balance.
> 
> 
> 
> The link above has reference to what I'm saying. The vid is only about 5 min long but the best part for me is from 3:20 in. There's no doubt in my mind that vaping is indeed a potentially world changing thing. More people just have to see it as that.
> 
> It'll be hard work boys and girls but I know that if this community of like minded brothers and sisters speak with one voice, we will be heard! Our number are growing by the day and soon we will be legion. Hell, I love vaping so much that I'm busy planning to open up a local vape shop so that I can get people to ditch the cigs while I make a living doing something I'm genuinely passionate about. Only we can preserve our vaping future folks. I, for one, will gladly offer my assistance, any way I can. Who's with me?
> 
> Vape long and prosper!
> Craig0



I shared this video on facebook like last week before i joined this forum! It was for my best friends gf, to show her that what she heard abt vaping was totally incorrect. Somehow people get misconceptions when they aren't actively pursuing knowledge for self enrichment and just trust sources that believe they know better.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Kamiel

I'm planning on opening an interview series on my blog and vlog to tell stories, debunk myths and just explore the avenues we have in SA, to keep this awesome hobby alive. Just PM me if you want to chat

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Sarx

Subscribed!


----------



## incredible_hullk

If you need a finance okkie Im in...


----------



## KlutcH

I am whiling to help out in the Graphic design side of things in my spare time. (Don't have much spare time) But the offer is there 

PS: I am not a graphic designer by trade.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


----------



## Rob Fisher



Reactions: Like 4 | Winner 1 | Thanks 1


----------



## Vapegilius995

I'm definitely in

Currently finishing my first year studying programming and completely open to using my limited experience to the cause
...as soon as exams are done
Down with stinkies VAPING FOREVER!!!!
Viva revolution or whatever

BTW I've only read the first and last page so I didn't see anything but how about forming a massive whatsapp group(currently a group can have 256 members)

If it already exist please ad me 
083 495 7955


----------



## GerritVisagie

Let us know how we can help. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Derkster_122

KlutcH said:


> I am whiling to help out in the Graphic design side of things in my spare time. (Don't have much spare time) But the offer is there
> 
> PS: I am not a graphic designer by trade.


I am a graphic designer by trade and would be delighted to help in my spare time from mid novemberish (as thats when i wave goodbye to varsity foreverrrrr!


----------



## RichJB

One thing we could do is for the vaping industry to put together a position paper and approach the dti. The paper would position the vaping industry as:
1) A job creator particularly in the SMME sector - which just happens to be the dti's priority sector
2) A sector with innovation potential
3) A sector with manufacturing and export potential
4) A public health benefit

In short, we could be proactive and work towards regulation driving the industry forward rather than holding it back. Although, of course, that takes a lot of work and isn't nearly as easy as lamenting "the world is conspiring against us!"

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 2


----------



## Vapegilius995

Im not good at wrighting rupports 
Meybe if we set a bus on 
Or would that make us copycats


----------



## RichJB

I write reports. A lot. 

I'd like to see the national association doing some research on the vaping market in SA. There were no (or very, very few) black faces at VapeCon. We need to understand why. Has anybody been into Soweto or Khayelitsha, got a focus group of thirty smokers together, given them a vape and asked them what they think of it? Would they consider quitting smoking to do it? Is the taste OK for them? How much would they be prepared to spend on it? How can the product be changed to be more appealing to them? 

These are the people who will be the drain on public health funds when they get ill from smoking. These are the vast majority of the "billion lives" that we brag we can save. How are we going to put a compelling case to the NDOH or the dti if we know so little about our potential market?

SA is the gateway to Africa. Tens of millions of Africans could be saved by vaping. If we can go to the dti with ideas on how this market can be served, how vaping can become a job-creating and innovative sector in the SA economy, we will get the dti's attention. Going to them with "you're being mean to us" isn't going to cut it. If we want to be seen as a value-adding sector in SA industry, we need to do our homework and come with ideas. We need to convince dti and NDOH how *they* benefit from vaping, not why *we* need it. Whining about govt will get us nowhere. Govt has far too many people whining about them and far too few people coming with constructive and alternative ways forward. Waiting passively until govt pulls an FDA on us isn't going to achieve anything.

Reactions: Winner 1


----------



## Vapegilius995

Biggest issue in poorer areas is that most people live stinky to stinky... some don't even buy a full pack at a time ...since a lot of them might get an odd 100 here or there... convincing them to spend 400 once of on a device won't be easy... cigs are also simple light and suck where vapes do take a lot of maintenance...

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Vapegilius995

E-cigs are cheaper ...but only in the long run
I have a R2 and I can get a hit of nic from a gass station


----------



## RichJB

Then the industry needs innovation to make affordable models available.

But it's not just the poorer rural classes. There is a burgeoning black middle class (and higher) in SA society. Are they switching from smoking to vaping? It doesn't look like it to me. If that is the case, then why not? What are the barriers? How can we remove them? What is vaping uptake like among the middle class and higher in other African countries? What can SA do to turn this into an export opportunity? What can govt do to turn this into a public health opportunity?

The vaping industry can proactively be part of this development. Or it can sit back and wait for govt to regulate on its terms rather than our terms. It's our choice.


----------



## Vapegilius995

Haha I can see you wright a lot of reports

I definetly agree, as far as my knowledge goes the lower income areas tend to have a lot more smokers which is why I mistakenly assumed that's what you mean... I guess that's where disposables come in but they're not widely available... and still at least 40.

Middle class on the other hand is a different story...
Maybe if the South African vaping community got more active on platforms like YouTube or vines... particularly vape trick in vines

Make vape the in thing and we have a good start


----------



## Vapegilius995

I mean I only now 1 store smoker store with disposables in bloem and their old stock...

What about a SA brand of disposables


----------



## RichJB

Now we are talking. There are many opportunities which vaping will open. We don't need to sit back passively and wait for either China or big tobacco to take it all. More importantly, we don't need to sit and wait for govt to decide how it wants to regulate. There is nothing stopping us from approaching govt (the dti specifically), putting the business case for supporting vaping as an innovation/manufacturing/export/job creation sector, and taking away govt's incentive to try and regulate it out of existence.


----------



## Vapegilius995

question now is where to start?


----------



## Vapegilius995

What if we approached SA companies like twisp which the goal of making cheaper methods for vaping

Imagine picking up a disposable at the garage for a quick 20 
That could catch on easily


----------



## Vapegilius995

I thought of a slogan

"Who even uses a lighter anymore"


----------



## RichJB

Well, it would be something for the industry to do. But if I was a player in the industry, I would be talking seriously to the dti now. They want innovation, export, job creation, and will support sectors who can provide these. Govts generally view vaping as a threat, very few (UK for eg) see it as an opportunity. It shouldn't be too difficult to make ours see the massive potential that vaping can have in SA and then in Africa too. With us leading the way in Africa.

I know a guy who works at one of the national regulators. He hasn't even heard of vaping. We can wait for them to take their lead from the US and EU. Or we can proactively engage and try to shift them towards the UK view. But sitting back, doing nothing and hoping that they aren't too harsh in their regulation is a bit defeatist. These guys aren't going to go and look up A Billion Lives on their own. The message has to be taken to them.


----------



## Vapegilius995

Have you talked to this guy about all this yet...


----------



## Vapegilius995

I guess we'll need to start collecting statistics
The vape market in SA is thriving... 
And vape product can easily be manufactured so small companies can easily join the market... meaning there is a lot of potential for job creation

I guess we start by deciding what questions to address 
Health statistics 
Market growth 
...

All need to be brought to attention

And as you sayd we can use The UK as an example


----------



## Vapegilius995

for example how has the UK benefited...


----------



## Waine

I often (deliberately) Vape in public. I get odd looks from many people. What does that tell me? Vaping is still unknown to the masses. 

I agree, it's the "Starfish in the sea syndrome" one on one, we can all make a difference to add to the bigger picture by spreading the news that there is an alternative to smoking tobacco which is 95% safer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## RichJB

Well, the UK govt will be buying vape gear to dispense via the NHS, if their smoking cessation plan comes to fruition. That's an awful lot of starter kits that some importer is going to be selling.

When I look at the Eleaf iCare kit, I see the future of vaping. There is a tiny, cheap device that doesn't use much power but produces a satisfying vape. If Eleaf take that two generations forward, we are starting to get into the size/price range that becomes marketable in Africa, at least to the lower middle class and above.

We can't manufacture cheaper than China. But China doesn't produce juice, only gear. If vaping is to be sold to Africans, what type of juice will they want? Does anybody even know? If we can develop a juice that appeals uniquely to the African palate, something that is African in its profile and origin, then that juice could be done locally with SA concentrates even and married with Chinese hardware to produce an African vaping solution. 

I don't know, I may be talking rubbish as this isn't my area. But I see a potentially massive market that nobody has even started to address yet. China hasn't catered to that market yet because they haven't had to, there is enough growth in high-end vaping to fill their coffers. But that market will slow eventually and then they must cast their net wider. The reason big tobacco got big is because they priced their product for the masses. Vaping needs to pursue the same model imo.


----------



## Vapegilius995

Well we should take a look at what stinkies sell best... (although do consider the cheapest might be popular for that fact) 

And I'm a programmer by trade so this really isn't my area, just really like vaping... lol I had to lookup dti 

The best might be to look at cultural flavours ...favourite foods ect...


----------



## RichJB

Vapegilius995 said:


> Have you talked to this guy about all this yet...



No, but he listened in on a conversation I had. A few weeks ago, I wrote a vaping article for a consumer website. The regulator guy was listening while the webmaster of that site asked me to write the article. We were in a meeting about another project we're doing together. It started with me talking about vaping. The webmaster asked me to write an article about it for his readers. I asked the regulator guy what the time scale was for regulations and he just looked blankly at me and said "Huh, what are you talking about?" He'd sorta kinda heard of electronic cigarettes but didn't have any views on them and didn't even know it was being done in SA. He thought it was more of an overseas thing. 

Is the dti even aware of the vaping market and its potential? If not, how can we expect them to get excited about it and start exploring it? They are not going to watch A Billion Lives, only vapers will watch that. Which is why I keep saying, it's pointless preaching to the converted. We need to preach to the unconverted. But that goes beyond telling people that vaping is healthy. The industry needs to approach the powers-that-be with an industry vision, a plan and proposal for how to take this technological miracle and turn it to the advantage of the economy and people of SA and, by extension, Africa. Then govt will listen. You can bank on it.


----------



## Waine

We must all do the "Each one reach one" principle. Identify a tobacco smoker in your circle of friends or a work colleague. Vape in front of them, make it look interesting, prick their curiosity, answer their questions politely, show them the different options. Try to "convert" them by gently persuading them to just try vaping. Be their "mentor" -- be creative in your approach. 

It's a good starting point on a micro level.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Vapegilius995

Well who are SAs industry leaders


----------



## Vapegilius995

Waine said:


> We must all do the "Each one reach one" principle. Identify a tobacco smoker in your circle of friends or a work colleague. Vape in front of them, make it look interesting, prick their curiosity, answer their questions politely, show them the different options. Try to "convert" them by gently persuading them to just try vaping. Be their "mentor" -- be creative in your approach.
> 
> It's a good starting point on a micro level.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



That's a start... we should be doing that anyway...
But a fiew hundred of us aren't going to bring big change quickly


----------



## RichJB

Vapegilius995 said:


> Well who are SAs industry leaders



The vaping industry already has an association. They would be the best ones to drive this.


----------



## Vapegilius995

But I might just be pessimistic since I only have one friend that smokes
(Already converted the others even gave a friend my old vape)


----------



## mots01

One of the big cigarette companies are about to launch and bring in their brand of e cigs into the country. 

Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Vapegilius995

That could make quite a splash


----------



## Silver

Only caught up with this thread now. Been offline most of today
Great discussions here

@RichJB not sure if you were at VapeCon? Or managed to see EASA there? They had a stand there. They have been engaging with various government entities for some time to be proactive about potential regulation. 

Am trying to convince them to get registered on here and communicate on a regular basis with the vapers as to what they are doing. 

Saw them again at The Billion Lives premiere and brought it up again.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## RichJB

That would be great, @Silver. If they can communicate what they're doing, it will keep people in the loop.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Thanks 1


----------



## Silver

RichJB said:


> That would be great, @Silver. If they can communicate what they're doing, it will keep people in the loop.



Did you see them at VapeCon?

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## RichJB

No, unfortunately I was in and out of VapeCon fairly quickly as I had work matters to attend to on that day. It's a pity as, if I'd had more time, that stand would probably have been the one that interested me most. I work sort of tangentially with standardisation and regulation so I can see both sides of the story on this. I'd love it if the vaping industry and dti could meet each other halfway and work together to leverage the potential that vaping brings - not just from a health point of view but innovation, job creation, etc. It's a very exciting development, it would be a pity if it became a missed opportunity.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Vapegilius995

If you needed any proof why vaping is better than stinkies

Reactions: Informative 1


----------



## RichJB

Interesting comparison but you don't even need water. Just take a puff of a cigarette and exhale it through a white handkerchief. And that's what is still in the smoke AFTER it's been through your lungs. Now do the same with vapour. You can exhale an entire tank full of vapour through the handkerchief, it will still be spotlessly white. That is the single best and simplest demonstration to a smoker (or non-smoker/non-vaper who claims "they're exactly the same") that I know of.


----------



## Vapegilius995

True but the real kicker with this is when he shows the inside of the pipe ...e.g. Your wind pipe

And the water looks like piss... so that adds to the comparison


----------



## 4RML

Can I add one point I don't know if it is off topic , but I have not read a lot or at all in this thread but while it's fresh, I think society such as the mother who is looking at her young son , daughter vaping, she may feel it's rather wrong and denies her child of the vape, but they go on behind her back . This is cool in many cases even if the woman or father catches on they are again vaping, but it's that one percent that has muscle and they flex against the vape community, we stand strong yes but what if we are in the wrong. And this is the greatest problem going against the grain against the good will for others . This site is built on family values,trust and good will. Keep that in mind and serve in a honest manner to others and we will always grow , vape is no underground thing . As the good word says the lord said let there be light and it was. Same with us here we are , I rate just be thankful and that will carry and community.


----------



## Vapegilius995

I do agree and have been thinking about it

I beleve vaping is a great thing... But it should be restricted to some degree... Kids shoulnt be smoking or vaping

Problem is I finished school 2 years ago and I can tell you for every 10 highschoolers at least 1 smokes regularly
(probably more)


----------



## Vapegilius995

Vaping would be better for them... But whats the middle ground


----------



## Vapegilius995

Mmmm... where is everyone


----------



## Waine

To put things in context, I think the thrust of this thread is to encourage "smokers" to convert to "vapers". The notion of vaping should not be "sold" to those who have never smoked tobacco, or those who don't "smoke" anymore. Should vaping be advertised? Another good question? Personally I think not. But if so, only as an alternative to tobacco consumption.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Vapegilius995

My brother went to a party the other day when he came back he told me the guys there smoking sayd that vaping is not only as bad as stinkies but also dont have nic so their poinless

This is the kind of ignorance standing in the way of vaping saving lives

Not older folk ...matric students!!


----------



## Vapegilius995

For refference my brother doesnt smoke or vape and Im doing my best to keep it that way


----------



## Waine

As glamorous as vaping might be or appear to be, the truth is, whether we like it or not, we are dealing, for the most part, with the consumption of a "drug" --nicotine. It sounds a bit blunt, but its base truth. Unless one is into zero nicotine, but I am willing to wager that such vapers comprise of a very small percentage. 

What do we say to our 18 year old, plus, kids who ask for the first time: "Can I have a hit off your mod please dad? (or mom)

There are plenty moral dilemmas involved with vaping, and we have to be responsible and circumspect in our actions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## RichJB

Waine said:


> Should vaping be advertised? Another good question? Personally I think not. But if so, only as an alternative to tobacco consumption.



Ironically that is one of the claims that vaping manufacturers cannot make in advertising. Health claims and smoking cessation claims are forbidden in advertising and on packaging. I can understand the reasoning behind the health claims ban. Already we have had vaping companies claiming on their websites that vapour is "nothing but water vapour". That is extremely misleading. They also won't allow health claims because not enough is known yet. But I would think that "Vaping can help you to quit smoking" isn't an outrageous claim.


----------



## Vapegilius995

Personally Im not planning on quitting... But im slowly reduscing my nic till im 0mg


----------



## Derkster_122

hey guys... so whilst trolling the web I came across this youtube vid. Its normally a pretty good channel with regards to tech related stuff. At 6:00'ish minutes a Dr Nordt speaks about batteries being carried around in your pocket and shorting on keys etc in the pocket, is this a legitimate concern? I for one do have a carry case for my spare battery but could this really happen? Also they talk about diacetyl and the fact that bottles are not always childproof. A good enough watch if you've got a few minutes to spare.


----------



## stevie g

Nicotine is as bad as caffeine and paracetamol when used in moderation. 

All the guys talking about 0mg you're still buying into the Nicotine myth.

I'll find the study where they forced mice to breath dense eliquid vape for weeks then did tests on their blood and dna.

0mg had the most toxicological effect of DNA markers and Nic infused had half the amount. One of the conclusions was that nicotine acted as a protective agent against toxicity of eliquid flavourants.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1 | Informative 1


----------



## Waine

Something is going to kill me --some day, it may as well be vaping...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Reactions: Like 3


----------

