# Clones



## Morix (15/11/21)

Hi friends...

There's just something about mechanical tube mods that gets my motor running, for some reason i appreciate a modified steel/mineral pipe more than a modern pice of technology with buttons, flashy lights and a screen. I like the old simple and shiny rather than the techy up to date modernized.

As we all know there are people that like to collect vape gear like mods and rda, rta, rdta etc... Guys and their toys, right? I Happen to be one of these bloaks that hoard vape shit but, to be more specific..... Mech tubes.

Anyone that knows and have dwelled around the mech realm would agree that these can become wallet heavy even more than some of todays up to date merchandise, when looking at medium to high end authentic mods. Here in south africa its hard to get your hands on mechs and the ones you do get are low grade and uses 18650's. ( its 2021, come on.)

Sure there are sites that you can pick up a PURGE or something if it's not sold out. If you do find one available, start your car go to the bank and take a 2nd mortgage on your house so you can be able to buy something authentic.

The true purpose of this post is to know the difference between authentic and clone tubes. What are the differences and dangers involved?

When it comes to rda clones same question? I have heard that clone rda's have a different ( cheaper) deck insulator that can wear faster and not handle the same heat level as a authentic version. Also the materials used in the rdas or mechs are thinner and of cheaper quality. Now this goes without saying, if this is the case... Thread closed, solved and myth busted. But i have also seen and heard of good reviews when it comes to clones. Look, basically i dont what a damn insulator melting on me causing a dead short or some kind of thermal run away. ( now there is a guy at the back screaming " THEN BUY AUTHENTIC!").... Ok kevin.

I truly want to stack up on mechs and some rdas, the pocket just doesn't allow it ( i know you can relate ). If this thread is successful regarding feedback, please provide links as to where the items can be purchased from + waiting periods through your own experience.

I thank you in advance.

Dont forget to check out @ivc_mixer juices. ( real bang for buck and quality 20% off black sale)
&
Pop on by BVC and let @charln show you how coils are supposed to look like.( can last up to 3+ months with proper maintenance )

Disclaimer : I'm not in any way affiliated/sponsored or employed by/with BVC or 5SoN. Honest opinion and reviews.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## vicTor (15/11/21)

...there's and age old debate regarding Clones

not gonna touch on the safety aspect, but for me it was a moral dilemma, I practiced patience and saved up, saved up some more and got Authentic's of what I wanted, it just felt great

over the years I have made friends with local modders and these people are hard working, not making millions so often imagined what a knock they would take if their products were cloned

each to his own, this is my opinion

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Winner 1


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## Adephi (15/11/21)

Clones are like riding a scooter.

It seems cheap and practical until your friends find out.

Reactions: Winner 1 | Funny 4


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## Intuthu Kagesi (15/11/21)

vicTor said:


> ...there's and age old debate regarding Clones
> 
> not gonna touch on the safety aspect, but for me it was a moral dilemma, I practiced patience and saved up, saved up some more and got Authentic's of what I wanted, it just felt great
> 
> ...



I agree Victor ... I have no issue with borrowing concepts and ideas from other inventors, and integrating them into your own designs, (_subject to any patents that may exist_), however the answer lies in definition of the word clone; "*a duplicate or copy of an original*" ... and I ask the question of how happy you would be, if someone copied something you had invented or designed, something drenched in your blood sweat and tears, and then undercut your prices, as they had no innovation time, effort and costs invested.
South Africa may well have very "loose" laws, (_and morals_), however I choose the high ground, and will not support clones.

Reactions: Winner 3


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## baksteen8168 (15/11/21)

Adephi said:


> Clones are like riding a scooter.
> 
> It seems cheap and practical until your friends find out.


I drive a VW UP! because it's cheap and practical.... My friends found out and laughed at me. Guess who's laughing now that fuel is almost R20/L 

@Morix - You're kicking a hornet's nest here. There have been many a heated thread on this topic. Personally, I'm staying out of this debte as all threads like this accomplishes is creating arguments and splitting members.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## ARYANTO (15/11/21)

Intuthu Kagesi said:


> I agree Victor ... I have no issue with borrowing concepts and ideas from other inventors, and integrating them into your own designs, (_subject to any patents that may exist_), however the answer lies in definition of the word clone; "*a duplicate or copy of an original*" ... and I ask the question of how happy you would be, if someone copied something you had invented or designed, something drenched in your blood sweat and tears, and then undercut your prices, as they had no innovation time, effort and costs invested.
> South Africa may well have very "loose" laws, (_and morals_), however I choose the high ground, and will not support clones.


Ditto

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Dela Rey Steyn (15/11/21)

Oooh look, time for the annual ECIGSSA Clone Wars.....

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 1 | Funny 11


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## Intuthu Kagesi (15/11/21)

Dela Rey Steyn said:


> Oooh look, time for the annual ECIGSSA Clone Wars.....



Not necessarily ... providing people stick to providing their opinions as apposed arguing with others opinions, (_acknowledging that opinions are like a-holes ... we all have one, and we aren't really interested in looking at someone else's_).

I'm interested in peoples opinions as insight into their psych, as ones values usually extend across all aspects of ones life.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Grand Guru (15/11/21)

To answer you question regardless of the "ethical" dilemma. There are good clones that you can't even distinguish from the OGs quality and design wise and there are bad ones. Just as the original products I guess... you have to ask and sometimes test...

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Dela Rey Steyn (15/11/21)

Intuthu Kagesi said:


> Not necessarily ... providing people stick to providing their opinions as apposed arguing with others opinions, (_acknowledging that opinions are like a-holes ... we all have one, and we aren't really interested in looking at someone else's_).
> 
> I'm interested in peoples opinions as insight into their psych, as ones values usually extend across all aspects of ones life.



I think most of us have learned to just stay away from this topic....

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 1


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## Morix (15/11/21)

thank you for the responses. i'm not going to let this turn into a clone wars as @Dela Rey Steyn is hoping for ( yes i see you, put down the popcorn and chewbaka mask), if y'all want to nerd out do so by answering the questions my nerdmigos. 

*safe or not ,no? why?
same for rda's



*

Reactions: Like 3


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## Dela Rey Steyn (15/11/21)

Morix said:


> thank you for the responses. i'm not going to let this turn into a clone wars as @Dela Rey Steyn is hoping for ( yes i see you, put down the popcorn and chewbaka mask), if y'all want to nerd out do so by answering the questions my nerdmigos.
> 
> *safe or not ,no? why?
> same for rda's
> ...



Believe me, it's not worth popping the popcorn for.

Safe? Yes, if you check it and and see that everything is as it should be, it's safe. We need to check any equipment, Clone or Authentic, regularly, as even authentic kit some times have duds.

Reactions: Agree 6 | Funny 2 | Thanks 1


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## Morix (15/11/21)

yea i still think some of the high end companies claim to have stuff locally made but actually its china. Just by saying its locally made us/eu what ever puts that big dollar on it. Ye the machining is nice but so is china's.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Jean claude Vaaldamme (15/11/21)

I have never seen any proof of a clone failing from "lesser grade" materials
I have seen time and time again High end mods being sold for thousands. Then you the customer is the Guinea pig and every few months you must pay a few thousand more for this upgrade to stop the leaking or that upgrade for better functionality etc.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Stranger (15/11/21)

All I am going to say is that our ethics and morals differ substantially from other cultures. If the Japanese after the 2nd world war had not cloned the USA tech, you would not have the quality Jap products that you do today

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3 | Funny 1


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## Adephi (15/11/21)



Reactions: Funny 6


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## Jean claude Vaaldamme (15/11/21)

Well I respect someone with ethics and morals.
Here is the problem. If you try to avoid taxes, bribe a policeman, drive over the speed limit, drive when you had to much to drink, don't stop at stop streets, etc etc etc, then all your high morals talk about cloning mean dog poo.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Rob Fisher (15/11/21)

Shall I dive in? Nahhhh....

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1 | Funny 6


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## Stranger (15/11/21)

I have mentioned this before, in certain cultures industrial espionage is seen as being part of business. We have seen it in the vape world when a product is launched and the next day there is a clone. No way they can back engineer in one day. These companies know this and decide whether it is economically viable to copy right or to rely on the market that they are aiming for which is a different market to the cloners. Is it ethical and moral in our western culture ? No it is not, but this is not how it is seen by the producers of both the original and the cloners. To them it is all part of business war.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Adephi (15/11/21)

Jean claude Vaaldamme said:


> Well I respect someone with ethics and morals.
> Here is the problem. If you try to avoid taxes, bribe a policeman, drive over the speed limit, drive when you had to much to drink, don't stop at stop streets, etc etc etc, then all your high morals talk about cloning mean dog poo.



You argue like an auntie-waxxer. 

That has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Dela Rey Steyn (15/11/21)

Adephi said:


> You argue like an auntie-waxxer.
> 
> That has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 5


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## Munro31 (15/11/21)

Y'all know we are all clones right???

Reactions: Funny 6


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## Timwis (15/11/21)

Morix said:


> yea i still think some of the high end companies claim to have stuff locally made but actually its china



Not going to name names because it was a good while ago in fact comfortably pre-covid and do not have the emails and messenger messages still to prove it but I swear this is true! I was negotiating with two different High End manufacturers to get products but obviously there is a wait as these products are made in small batches with gaps in between as they manipulate the demand to be higher than the supply so they can charge artificially high prices! I ended both possible purchases when they both let slip they were waiting on machined parts from China, the only clue I will give is one of the manufacturers is a well known Greek manufacturer!

Reactions: Funny 1 | Informative 1


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## Intuthu Kagesi (15/11/21)

Jean claude Vaaldamme said:


> Well I respect someone with ethics and morals.
> Here is the problem. If you try to avoid taxes, bribe a policeman, drive over the speed limit, drive when you had to much to drink, don't stop at stop streets, etc etc etc, then all your high morals talk about cloning mean dog poo.



The video below explains how ethics are objective, whilst morals are subjective


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## Intuthu Kagesi (15/11/21)

Munro31 said:


> Y'all know we are all clones right???



Speak for yourself 
https://dolly.roslin.ed.ac.uk/facts/the-life-of-dolly/index.html

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Jean claude Vaaldamme (15/11/21)

Adephi said:


> You argue like an auntie-waxxer.
> 
> That has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand


Well ethics and morals have been mentioned a few times on this thread before I joined.
But then again I know people who know or are related to a nurse and then they think they are internet Covid experts

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Intuthu Kagesi (15/11/21)

Stranger said:


> All I am going to say is that our ethics and morals differ substantially from other cultures. If the Japanese after the 2nd world war had not cloned the USA tech, you would not have the quality Jap products that you do today



Not entirely true ... check this out;

https://archive.fortune.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/1987/12/21/69996/index.htm


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## Puff the Magic Dragon (15/11/21)

I haven't seen you around here for a while @Jean claude Vaaldamme .

Good to have you back. I've missed your no-nonsense and direct approach to issues.

I'm also going to skip the clone war except for one word of advice to @Morix who deserves an answer to his questions (some have already been answered). The forum is, after all, known for being friendly and helpful.

Even clone/style vape gear has a bit of a quality hierarchy. The best, in no particular order, are SXK, YFTK and Kindbright. This is not to say that other clone/style products are all not good, but you can usually rely on the quality of the ones I have listed. SXK also make their own devices including DNA mods such as the Supbox which was highly rated by many, including @Timwis .

https://www.ecigssa.co.za/sxk-supbox-sevo-70w-box-kit.t68450/#post-873377

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Adephi (15/11/21)

Jean claude Vaaldamme said:


> Well ethics and morals have been mentioned a few times on this thread before I joined.
> But then again I know people who know or are related to a nurse and then they think they are internet Covid experts



But according to your argument, if I never paid a bribe then I'm ok to get a clone? 

The same way people are promoting China clones, but elsewhere we need to avoid China at all costs because of the Covid thing.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Jean claude Vaaldamme (15/11/21)

Adephi said:


> But according to your argument, if I never paid a bribe then I'm ok to get a clone?
> 
> The same way people are promoting China clones, but elsewhere we need to avoid China at all costs because of the Covid thing.


HUH?
Looks like your 5G injections are having a short circuit.
I said you cant have good morals and ethics about cloning if your morals and ethics on other things in life are a bit shady. Then you a hypocrite

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Adephi (15/11/21)

Dela Rey Steyn said:


>



I'm way too sober for this.

Reactions: Funny 2 | Can relate 1


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## vicTor (15/11/21)

I reckon this thread should be locked now, as we all know how this ends

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Timwis (15/11/21)

Going back to the OP there is a third option of buying Authentic Chinese Tube Mechs! I have no complaints about all 3 of my Thunderhead Creation Mechs but then I am not a big mech user!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Jean claude Vaaldamme (15/11/21)

vicTor said:


> I reckon this thread should be locked now, as we all know how this ends


But why?
I came and gave my opinion, did not quote anyone or even mention anyone, just my general opinion.
Then I was personally attacked, cant lock it now to save him the embarrassment. As jy vra sal jy kry, moenie dan weg hardloop.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Munro31 (15/11/21)

Intuthu Kagesi said:


> Speak for yourself
> https://dolly.roslin.ed.ac.uk/facts/the-life-of-dolly/index.html


Well, you are not Adam boet, so you are a Clone of mom and dad, a little bundle of 50/50 !

Reactions: Funny 3


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## vicTor (15/11/21)

Jean claude Vaaldamme said:


> But why?
> I came and gave my opinion, did not quote anyone or even mention anyone, just my general opinion.
> Then I was personally attacked, cant lock it now to save him the embarrassment. As jy vra sal jy kry, moenie dan weg hardloop.



aah, forgot I can Ignore Thread

Reactions: Winner 3


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## Jean claude Vaaldamme (15/11/21)

vicTor said:


> aah, forgot I can Ignore Thread


Don't worry I'm outta here again. Just made a quick stop to see if I can maybe feature in the Quote of the week hit parade

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Stranger (15/11/21)

Always a little sad when debates become emotional. I have an acquaintance that sticks rigidly to the driving laws that he was taught. My argument is that principles have no place on the roads because people no longer drive by the rules. Today you have to drive to survive, if this means bending some of the rules, then you need to do that.

That does not give us the power to judge, only the power to choose.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Intuthu Kagesi (15/11/21)

Munro31 said:


> Well, you are not Adam boet, so you are a Clone of mom and dad, a little bundle of 50/50 !


A clone is an exact copy ... human beings are not exact copies of their parents. 
At best, you'd be 50% of your Mom and 50% of your Dad, (albeit that that is a very simplistic view and doesn't take into account recessive genes, or the fact that male genes are normally more "aggressive", and generally speaking are slightly more than 50%).
So no human beings are clones, (unless someone did a "Dolly" on them).


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## Stranger (15/11/21)

I never touched her.

Reactions: Funny 4


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## Intuthu Kagesi (15/11/21)

Stranger said:


> I never touched her.


That not what Dolly told me

Reactions: Funny 2


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## vicTor (15/11/21)

Jean claude Vaaldamme said:


> Don't worry I'm outta here again. Just made a quick stop to see if I can maybe feature in the Quote of the week hit parade



pop in and say hello

https://www.ecigssa.co.za/jhb-vape-meet-20-november-2021.t74359/

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Munro31 (15/11/21)

Intuthu Kagesi said:


> A clone is an exact copy ... human beings are not exact copies of their parents.
> At best, you'd be 50% of your Mom and 50% of your Dad, (albeit that that is a very simplistic view and doesn't take into account recessive genes, or the fact that male genes are normally more "aggressive", and generally speaking are slightly more than 50%).
> So no human beings are clones, (unless someone did a "Dolly" on them).


Definitely true, but I reject your reality and substitute my own!

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Puff the Magic Dragon (15/11/21)

Munro31 said:


> Definitely true, but I reject your reality and substitute my own!




Adam Savage is a droid. Seen here with his younger brother :

Reactions: Winner 1 | Funny 1


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## Intuthu Kagesi (15/11/21)

Puff the Magic Dragon said:


> Adam Savage is a droid. Seen here with his younger brother :
> 
> View attachment 244009


Is that a little grey "tarnish" on his sideburns and chin that I see

Reactions: Agree 1


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## DarthBranMuffin (15/11/21)

To just simply answer the question:

Is a clone dangerous: Yes it is
Is an original dangerous: Yes it is

It is your knowledge and maintenance and respect for that which you have no control over that will keep you out of danger for as long as you respect it and follow the laws and time that others spent years figuring out for you not to have to go through the entire process. The moment you have it in your hand and you question it, rather just put it back in the box and walk away.

Decide for yourself what you want to buy. And if you decide to buy a clone, rather keep it to yourself and not tell or show anyone.

The rest of this discussion becomes personal and not vape related, so I would also suggest that we put this one to bed now, again, for the last time, maybe, until someone brings it up again and then we do it all over again, for the last time... maybe...

Reactions: Winner 3


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## Stranger (15/11/21)

There is always some bloke that come and spoils a good debate with facts and science and stuff

Reactions: Funny 7 | Can relate 1


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## Munro31 (15/11/21)

So...... what's everybodies feelings on clones?

Reactions: Funny 5


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## Intuthu Kagesi (15/11/21)

Munro31 said:


> So...... what's everybodies feelings on clones?

Reactions: Funny 6


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## Viper_SA (15/11/21)

Munro31 said:


> So...... what's everybodies feelings on clones?



Well if anyone cloned Avril Lavigne I'm first in line for a copy

Reactions: Funny 7


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## DarthBranMuffin (15/11/21)

Viper_SA said:


> Well if anyone cloned Avril Lavigne I'm first in line for a copy



Someone did clone her... I prefer the new copy...

Reactions: Winner 1 | Funny 2


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## Dela Rey Steyn (15/11/21)

Munro31 said:


> So...... what's everybodies feelings on clones?



Personal choice at the end of the day I suppose.....

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Stranger (15/11/21)

I have made no secret that I have Dvarw clones from SXK. I am not embarrassed, nor feel guilty or ethically devoid. KHW made the decision not to copyright their product, SXK decided to clone it. Two different markets. I have never had an original and probably could not justify the cost. However I have also accepted that the KHW buyers may have a better experience than me and may have a better quality product.

I won't lose any sleep over it.

If you have intellectual capital or a unique product or design that you have or intend to copyright and that product is stolen, then yes, that is theft and should be treat as such.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Can relate 1


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## ivc_mixer (15/11/21)

I'm sure someone who does graphics stuff can do better, but this was my attempt with MS-Paint

Reactions: Winner 6 | Funny 2 | Creative 1


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## Munro31 (15/11/21)

Intuthu Kagesi said:


> View attachment 244012


I have a bone that size

Reactions: Funny 4


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## DarthBranMuffin (15/11/21)

Munro31 said:


> I have a bone that size



that's what (non-binary) she said...

Reactions: Funny 6


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## Puff the Magic Dragon (15/11/21)

Munro31 said:


> I have a bone that size




Funny bone ?

Reactions: Funny 6


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## Munro31 (15/11/21)

Puff the Magic Dragon said:


> Funny bone ?


It's just called BONE

Reactions: Funny 4


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## Timwis (15/11/21)

I know people who make a song and dance about people having cloned hardware but will quite happily mix any cloned e-liquid recipe they can get hold of! That's the problem with us humans we just move the goalposts to what's acceptable to meet our own needs!

Reactions: Agree 4 | Winner 2


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## Morix (15/11/21)

Timwis said:


> Not going to name names because it was a good while ago in fact comfortably pre-covid and do not have the emails and messenger messages still to prove it but I swear this is true! I was negotiating with two different High End manufacturers to get products but obviously there is a wait as these products are made in small batches with gaps in between as they manipulate the demand to be higher than the supply so they can charge artificially high prices! I ended both possible purchases when they both let slip they were waiting on machined parts from China, the only clue I will give is one of the manufacturers is a well known Greek manufacturer!


Yes look some of the vape folks that have their own line, bogan and grim green and many others use china manufacturers and they state it to their costomers and that is really honorable = respect. But im sure there are some high end folks that have "home made" mods that use china for the milling or some parts of mechs but they don't disclose it.. The ego will take a knock and the price will have to fall in the medium range instead of high. Kennedy and deathwish closed doors, why? Kennedy now makes torches and deathwish is bought over by a scottish or german folks. These high end guys run out due to their prices. Everyone thats in the mech realm wants a damn kennedy... I known i do, but i cant pay 4-5k for a tube. If there is a specific reason as to why its so damn pricey let the costomers know but that being said buckle up then because ull only be catering for a low population crowd that can afford to buy these. Once all the rich boys have your mod whos going to buy it next? Charging 25 - 30 usd for a fire pin...? Piss off! That mod costs you maximum 50 to 70 usd to make the issue is your 300% markup because ur a little rainbow chaser.

This is my honest opinion. Yes you will make money if you over charge but for a limited time before all those customers have what you sell. If you had put it in the meduim range pricing alot more people could and would buy it therefore extending the time frame of your career and boosting your sales and still u are making mega profit. 

Completely handcrafted box mechs different story. (real labor) 

I know people have to make money just dont be a doosh and overcharge for shit you know that cost you 10% of what you're asking.

Jy kak op jou eie voorstoep want jys yt gevreet.


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## Morix (15/11/21)

Timwis said:


> I know people who make a song and dance about people having cloned hardware but will quite happily mix any cloned e-liquid recipe they can get hold of! That's the problem with us humans we just move the goalposts to what's acceptable to meet our own needs!


Hypocritical


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## Stranger (16/11/21)

Can't agree @Morix 

Your goods are worth what people will pay for them, this is capitalism. It is not just about the cost of materials, it is the man hours too and the cost of the experience gained to make the product. If folk want to make a few bucks by making a high end product and charging a lot for it, there will be a market. it does not follow that this will be a lifelong career or business.

I buy cheap takkies, not going to pay Nike prices.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Puff the Magic Dragon (16/11/21)

Stranger said:


> it is the man hours too



You have offended my feelings here. Man-hours indeed. The preferred term is person-hours.

Report to the apologies thread!!!

Reactions: Funny 11


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## Morix (16/11/21)

Stranger said:


> Can't agree @Morix
> 
> Your goods are worth what people will pay for them, this is capitalism. It is not just about the cost of materials, it is the man hours too and the cost of the experience gained to make the product. If folk want to make a few bucks by making a high end product and charging a lot for it, there will be a market. it does not follow that this will be a lifelong career or business.
> 
> I buy cheap takkies, not going to pay Nike prices.


Yes definitely, but closing doors is just silly. Then again who knows what happened and the actual reason behind it. If the only reason is that no one is buying the mods anymore or not enough then the price should be dropped. If u haven't yet, check the kennedy workshop. Now manufacturers of torches. Sigh.

At least the cheap takkies wont blow ur feet off.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Stranger (16/11/21)

Please go here
https://www.ecigssa.co.za/the-just-mechs-thread.t69618/

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Morix (16/11/21)

Stranger said:


> Please go here
> https://www.ecigssa.co.za/the-just-mechs-thread.t69618/


Let me take that off your hands


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## Stranger (16/11/21)



Reactions: Funny 3 | Optimistic 1


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## Stranger (16/11/21)

Found the Kennedy face book page. It states there that the government has won this battle. Does this not have to do with all the recent licensing for vape products, plus the shipping ban ?

I don't think it has anything to do with customer demand, or lack of. ???


The FDA is unimpressed with your progress toward a healthier lifestyle. On September 9, the agency refused to grant marketing approval for millions of vaping products,

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Morix (16/11/21)

Stranger said:


> Found the Kennedy face book page. It states there that the government has won this battle. Does this not have to do with all the recent licensing for vape products, plus the shipping ban ?
> 
> I don't think it has anything to do with customer demand, or lack of. ???
> 
> ...



could be, but there in Australia those ministers have completely forgotten about the advocacy since this covid kak started. according to Sam ( bogan ).


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