# Is this a local juice?



## Feliks Karp (1/10/16)

Come now, using a valve/dota 2 IP character and just throwing a filter on an existing image of that character? Then tomorrow someone makes another thread about how vaping gets a bad image. Stupid.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Noddy (1/10/16)

Can you please explain why it stupid? Not asking to be a cnut, but because I am very curious now...


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## Feliks Karp (1/10/16)

Using stolen art AND a character from a video game (without a doubt without permission), anything else that needs to be explained?

Reactions: Agree 4


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## Noddy (1/10/16)

Ah, o.k. thanks, my mind was far away from games character. Was leaning towards evil darkside things.... Anyway, moving on...


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## Feliks Karp (1/10/16)

Nevermind that it's just lazy theft of an official image, whoever did it should be thrown in jail for being such a lazy fleeb.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 4


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## Rude Rudi (1/10/16)

Mmmm....not good....where did you see this?


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## Feliks Karp (1/10/16)

Rude Rudi said:


> Mmmm....not good....where did you see this?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



Was on one of the vendor sites, I can't find much out else on google except for another vendor who isn't on here.


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## Rude Rudi (1/10/16)

Cheap Chinese crap perhaps?


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## Silver (1/10/16)

Feliks Karp said:


> Was on one of the vendor sites, I can't find much out else on google except for another vendor who isn't on here.



Was it a local or international vendor @Feliks Karp ?


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## Feliks Karp (1/10/16)

Silver said:


> Was it a local or international vendor @Feliks Karp ?



Hey @Silver, local vendor, priced in line with other local juices, why I'm interested if this is a local juice supplier.

Reactions: Creative 1


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## Lord Vetinari (1/10/16)

Feliks Karp said:


> Hey @Silver, local vendor, priced in line with other local juices, why I'm interested if this is a local juice supplier.


If it walks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, odds are it is not a racehorce

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 3


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## RichJB (1/10/16)

I think @boxerulez has been vaping this juice. It's affecting his eyes the same way as the oke on the label.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## boxerulez (1/10/16)

Hahahahaha @RichJB No my eyes are genetic. Comes with being a T4000 model.

I can also charge my 18650s by inserting them in any orifice.

26650 is a problem though.

Sent from my SM-A500F using Tapatalk

Reactions: Winner 1 | Funny 9


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## RichJB (1/10/16)

With regard to the copyright infringement, I think it's often motivated by sheer ignorance as much as malice. When the Hellgate Iron Maiden thing erupted, a Hellgate representative defended their IP theft by claiming that Iron Maiden couldn't copyright the name, it was in common English usage centuries before the band even formed. Which is true. But he's not getting the nuance that it's not the words Iron Maiden that are copyrighted, it's the brand Iron Maiden in its special font that is trademarked.

A lot of juice manufacturers are "mom and pop" type concerns where the owner was a salaried worker before. They don't have much business nous or the resources to hire lawyers so they just take chances in the belief that it's OK and nobody will mind.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Soutie (1/10/16)

RichJB said:


> With regard to the copyright infringement, I think it's often motivated by sheer ignorance as much as malice. When the Hellgate Iron Maiden thing erupted, a Hellgate representative defended their IP theft by claiming that Iron Maiden couldn't copyright the name, it was in common English usage centuries before the band even formed. Which is true. But he's not getting the nuance that it's not the words Iron Maiden that are copyrighted, it's the brand Iron Maiden in its special font that is trademarked.
> 
> A lot of juice manufacturers are "mom and pop" type concerns where the owner was a salaried worker before. They don't have much business nous or the resources to hire lawyers so they just take chances in the belief that it's OK and nobody will mind.



I agree with this totally, it's like the local bakery selling party packs for a kids birthday party with a picture of the smurfs or a minion on. IP laws generally don't even factor in the thinking when this is done, it's just a party pack for a kids party BUT lawyers can drag you over the coals for it. They just don't know any better.


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## Strontium (1/10/16)

I really don't have an issue with the image being used. This is not some mega corporate cashing in on a global level, it's quite possibly a little "mom n pop" business using the image coz it looks cool.
If the image owners get peeved SFW, send a cease and desist.


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## stevie g (1/10/16)

It's about the precedent and all that this brand needs to happen is someone to alert the company the art is taken from them and then bad things happen. 

IMO this person needs to rethink the label.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Feliks Karp (1/10/16)

RichJB said:


> I think it's often motivated by sheer ignorance as much as malice





Soutie said:


> I agree with this totally, it's like the local bakery selling party packs for a kids birthday party with a picture of the smurfs or a minion on. IP laws generally don't even factor in the thinking when this is done





Strontium said:


> I really don't have an issue with the image being used. This is not some mega corporate cashing in on a global level, it's quite possibly a little "mom n pop" business using the image coz it looks cool.



You all almost got your first disagree ratings from me, but I'm not a passive-aggressive kind of guy. As some one who makes a meager living doing several kinds of "art" it always shocks me to find my work online with tumblr-esque quotes on it and my watermark cut off or in some one else's portfolio, and I'm afraid this thought pattern is way more along the lines of the below cartoon:




Even if you are a "mom and pop" outfit, if you want to start a business you must adhere to the realities of owning and starting a business and that includes paying some one to design your stuff or doing it from scratch by yourself. You cannot simply steal something because in your mind "art" is just something that once created can be just used because "lol pictures", it's some one else's lively hood. And as @Sprint stated, this does end up shining a dubious light on vaping once the owner of the IP/image is pissed off and makes a fuss over it.

Reactions: Agree 5


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## blujeenz (1/10/16)

I'll side with @Feliks Karp on this issue, brand theft is usually the product of a lazy unimaginative mind.
Typically the thiever attempts to profit on someones elses coat tails and looks for a easily identifiable logo etc in order to attract a segment of the population that identified with the original.
The underlying intent is what the lawers pitch up for and rightly so.

If for example you're selling jacuzzzi's, pools and related equipment and decide to use the name "Waterworld" as your brand, but use the "M" from MacDonalds and flip it upside down to be your "W"... you might be in a grey area, especially if you use the same color scheme as Mac D's.
That I would see as a creative appeal to the subconcious of the consumer to create an unknown brand with subconcious preapproval based on an existing well known entity.

But outright logo/brand theft is piracy and just wrong.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Feliks Karp (1/10/16)

Maybe I should add that the character in question is called "phantom assassin" for those who don't play games or don't know dota 2, that would probably make this more obvious. This is entirely a cash grab linking to the game's popularity beyond the discussion over IP theft.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## The Wolf (1/10/16)

Valve/Dota is very generous when it comes to using there intellectual property. 
They encourage people to make movies, drawings, lots of other things based on their properties.
However... they do not like anyone selling merchandise based their intellectual property.

Hope our PPF - "Pirate Picture Friend" sees this and change it before he gets a letter from Valve asking for their  $$ cut

Reactions: Like 1


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## Caveman (1/10/16)

Its very simple really. Adding a filter does not make the image original, therefore it is not legal to use. Doesn't matter if you are a global enterprise or a simple worker. They should definitely rethink the logo, even if legal action never befalls them, it's bad practice and in bad taste

Reactions: Agree 4


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## Igno (1/10/16)

I don't have anything to say about the artwork, but i have to ad that this juice is indeed local, and IMO some of the best juice out there at the moment. So maybe the lack of imagination used on the artwork is compensated for by the sheer brilliance in creating this line. It's a fairly new line because I only received mine yesterday and it's definitely worth my money, artwork aside.


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## Igno (1/10/16)

I'm keeping in mind that this is a new juice line and the creator maybe didn't have the funds for a graphic designer which I'll be more than happy to help with for say a 100ml bottle


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## Feliks Karp (1/10/16)

Igno said:


> I'm keeping in mind that this is a new juice line and the creator maybe didn't have the funds for a graphic designer which I'll be more than happy to help with for say a 100ml bottle



Irrelevant, falls in to start up cost, can I come break in to your home because I really need a new printer as mine has just broke? As I've already pointed out the character is called "phantom assassin" this is beyond stealing an image, I highly doubt the chosen character was accidental, label could have easily been used with the character omitted.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


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## VapeDude (1/10/16)

I wonder if the juice has a crit flavour multiplier the more you vape it ?

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 3


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## Derkster_122 (1/10/16)

As s Graphic Designer I think the worst possible job brief I can possibly get is: " Can you make me something, I want it to look like this" and more often than not, you are expected to replicate someone else's work. I have tried to convince many a client that doing that is theft, often resulting in me having to turn down work because I refuse to use someone else's work in order to keep a client happy.


I'm just here here to soak up knowledge... Basically I'm a sponge.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Spydro (1/10/16)

Feliks Karp said:


> You all almost got your first disagree ratings from me, but I'm not a passive-aggressive kind of guy. As some one who makes a meager living doing several kinds of "art" it always shocks me to find my work online with tumblr-esque quotes on it and my watermark cut off or in some one else's portfolio, and I'm afraid this thought pattern is way more along the lines of the below cartoon:
> 
> View attachment 69858
> 
> ...



That's the way it goes on social media. Anything can and will be copied, and it will be redistributed. IE, my original photo's that I attach here on the forum end up in search engine searches, and are used elsewhere without my authorization.

Reactions: Can relate 1


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## RichJB (1/10/16)

@Derkster_122, I'm sure you've seen this before.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Imperator (1/10/16)

A lot of juice vendors just use art found in the public domain. That's perfect. If you can't afford to pay for an original design and piece, there is an ample supply of works that are not protected by copyright - you are perfectly entitled to use the work and exploit it. 

I made a thread about this when I first joined and some disagreed with my views but I think it bodes poorly for the industry if it becomes known as one that regularly infringed upon the copyright of others. It just gives more ammunition to those who seek to clamp down upon it. The last thing we need is for a court to have a case concerning an e-liquid or vape related product, bringing with it a whole bunch of unwanted attention. If we argue for self-regulation then we must self-regulate. 

Plus, prices should be calculated to include the cost of branding and design, but that's another story for another thread entirely.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## RichJB (1/10/16)

True, @Imperator, although the vaping industry's pleas to be allowed to self-regulate were a non-starter. No industry is trusted to self-regulate, least of all one that is based in China. The mere fact that the vaping industry believed it had a chance to make it happen betrays their naivety. If it goes into your body and it has potential for harm, it is going to be regulated to the nth degree. You can bet your house on it. Claiming "but but but... it's safer than smoking!" isn't going to cut any ice. Regulators don't only regulate the most dangerous product in each category. They regulate everything. And then some.

I don't think juice manufacturers ripping off trademarks is going to harm vaping's image unduly because nobody in the public really cares and besides, most industries do it. Even individuals do it. The overwhelming majority of people have illegal software on their computer, and/or have downloaded music/games/movies without paying for it. If anything, the public are on the side of the pirates. Just look at the anger that was unleashed when Napster was shut down.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## stevie g (1/10/16)

An extra dimension to my protest against this label is it clearly appeals to "kids" the 12 year olds and above that play these games. 

I know adults play these games too, in before snarky comment .


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## Imperator (1/10/16)

@RichJB, Oh I agree completely. I would go so far as to say that if it exists and is sold on the market it will be regulated. But if we claim that we are self-regulating (which is what we are doing currently), then we must actually do it. Regardless of whether or not government regulations will follow. It is for the benefit of the consumer after all (child proof caps, warning labels, etc.) 

The second issue I was referring to was not so much related to public perception but regulatory action. If court cases start popping up then it will be brought into the public's gaze, sure, but more importantly it will become an 'issue' which the state will want to address. That is, the organs of state will notice that the industry is growing (perhaps they will pick up on the various infringements occurring as an indication of this growth), and will want to step in. 

You could view the Napster thing as the perfect example of this - people may agree or not really care but that doesn't matter, it still got shut down.


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## Silver (1/10/16)

Just catching up with this thread now.
Good to read.

So @Feliks Karp - you gonna tell us where you found this juice or not?


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## Waine (1/10/16)

There is no excuse. A juice maker should Google and thoroughly research the intended juice name and logo before manufacturing the juice.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## RichJB (1/10/16)

Talking about the vaping industry management of its image, this Vaper Games thing is becoming quite the controversy. Enyawreklaw having a go at Twisted420, Ambitionz getting into flame wars with his subscribers, Vapin Heathen desperately trying to explain why it's all just good clean fun, etc. I don't know what the FDA will make of it, although they likely haven't heard or seen anything yet.


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## Derkster_122 (1/10/16)

RichJB said:


> @Derkster_122, I'm sure you've seen this before.



Lol oh yes far too many times. Great find.


I'm just here here to soak up knowledge... Basically I'm a sponge.


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## Feliks Karp (1/10/16)

@Silver wasn't sure I should but it's in stock at vaper's corner.

Reactions: Thanks 1


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## RichJB (1/10/16)

Also on sale here.

Reactions: Thanks 1


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## Lord Vetinari (1/10/16)

If you cannot afford graphic design you cannot afford a label. And cannot afford to release. Business plan needs adjustment in a case like this.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


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## dominic.hartze (3/10/16)

Hey guys 

so I was following this thread and relised I'm almost in the same boat. I've started mix my own juice and started selling it right..... got the name down but the logo and that needs some work and I want to avoid coping someone else's work.

In terms of the legal aspects what would I need to do to be able to sell juice to the big guys?????

Sent from my SM-J500F using Tapatalk


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## Caveman (3/10/16)

dominic.hartze said:


> Hey guys
> 
> so I was following this thread and relised I'm almost in the same boat. I've started mix my own juice and started selling it right..... got the name down but the logo and that needs some work and I want to avoid coping someone else's work.
> 
> ...


*I want to avoid coping someone else's work*

It's simple. Don't. There are gazillions of free images online that you can use and alter to your heart's content. Hell, even paying for a decent image is cheap enough. Taking a copyrighted image and modifying it slightly is still copyright infringement. I'm sure if you search around a bit you could get something you like, even if its not perfect. You could always cheap out now and a proper logo at a later time


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## stevie g (3/10/16)

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## stevie g (3/10/16)

They say they have the biggest selection in Africa amongst their more outrageous claims.

Not surprised they sell stolen label art after reading that.

Almost forgot... They have a "master distribution agreement with most of the big juices houses in America".
Sure bro of course you do

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Vapington (3/10/16)

Lol they sell 1 juice

Reactions: Like 2


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## Derkster_122 (3/10/16)

dominic.hartze said:


> Hey guys
> 
> so I was following this thread and relised I'm almost in the same boat. I've started mix my own juice and started selling it right..... got the name down but the logo and that needs some work and I want to avoid coping someone else's work.
> 
> ...



@dominic.hartze Any designer worth their salt would be able to create a logo and labels for you without infringing on any copyrights or breaking any intellectual property rights. My suggestion is approach a good designer and ask them what they can do for you. That way you know you will have quality work and you would be able to sell your product with the piece of mind that no laws were broken and nothing was stolen.


I'm just here here to soak up knowledge... Basically I'm a sponge.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## dominic.hartze (3/10/16)

Doing that got a designer busy with the logo.

Sent from my SM-J500F using Tapatalk

Reactions: Like 3


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## Derkster_122 (3/10/16)

RichJB said:


> True, @Imperator, although the vaping industry's pleas to be allowed to self-regulate were a non-starter. No industry is trusted to self-regulate, least of all one that is based in China. The mere fact that the vaping industry believed it had a chance to make it happen betrays their naivety. If it goes into your body and it has potential for harm, it is going to be regulated to the nth degree. You can bet your house on it. Claiming "but but but... it's safer than smoking!" isn't going to cut any ice. Regulators don't only regulate the most dangerous product in each category. They regulate everything. And then some.
> 
> I don't think juice manufacturers ripping off trademarks is going to harm vaping's image unduly because nobody in the public really cares and besides, most industries do it. Even individuals do it. The overwhelming majority of people have illegal software on their computer, and/or have downloaded music/games/movies without paying for it. If anything, the public are on the side of the pirates. Just look at the anger that was unleashed when Napster was shut down.



I must disagree that no industry is trusted to self-regulate as here in South Africa an example that relates to this topic is the advertising industry, the ASASA (Advertising Standards Authority of South Africa) is a self regulated authority tasked with overseeing all forms of advertising regardless of what media, from product packaging to television. That said, if this were a perfect world we could approach the manufacturer of this label, ask them to change it, and in due time they would but I doubt that approach would work.


I'm just here here to soak up knowledge... Basically I'm a sponge.


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## Derkster_122 (3/10/16)

Derkster_122 said:


> I must disagree that no industry is trusted to self-regulate as here in South Africa an example that relates to this topic is the advertising industry, the ASASA (Advertising Standards Authority of South Africa) is a self regulated authority tasked with overseeing all forms of advertising regardless of what media, from product packaging to television. That said, if this were a perfect world we could approach the manufacturer of this label, ask them to change it, and in due time they would but I doubt that approach would work.
> 
> 
> I'm just here here to soak up knowledge... Basically I'm a sponge.



Additionally if one felt this would hurt the vaping or advertising industry then one would be entitled to go to a regulatory body like ASASA and lodge a complaint.


I'm just here here to soak up knowledge... Basically I'm a sponge.


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## Derkster_122 (3/10/16)

dominic.hartze said:


> Doing that got a designer busy with the logo.
> 
> Sent from my SM-J500F using Tapatalk



Good man. All the best with the juice, do share the final look and feel with us, @Sickboy 77 had great success with his juices from exposure on this forum.


I'm just here here to soak up knowledge... Basically I'm a sponge.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## RichJB (3/10/16)

Sure, but I'm talking about consumer products, not services. Services can be self-regulated via an industry ombudsman. Products not so much.


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## Derkster_122 (3/10/16)

RichJB said:


> Sure, but I'm talking about consumer products, not services. Services can be self-regulated via an industry ombudsman. Products not so much.



Product packaging directly relates to consumer products, and packaging is advertising in its most basic sense.


I'm just here here to soak up knowledge... Basically I'm a sponge.


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## RichJB (3/10/16)

So was the ban on cigarette advertising in SA an initiative of ASASA or was it regulated by an Act of Parliament? In the US, vape advertising may not make any claims about vaping as a smoking cessation aid, nor may it make any health claims about vaping v smoking. These regulations are enforced by the FDA, it is not a self-regulation decision by either the advertising or vaping industries.


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## Igno (3/10/16)

Okay. so I did my research on the juice discussed here and came in contact with the creator. The original designer is from Deviant Art who painted the image with brushed, stroke lines and pen-tooling. It was gifted to dota2wallpapers to be used with their own filter on top. Phantom, (the juice line in question) bought permission with a licensing fee from the designer as it worked out cheaper than a hired graphic designer. 

So, I for once would like to state that Phantom went through all the right channels and procedures. As a graphic designer myself, I am also not supporting copying or piracy but as long as all the right procedures were followed, which its was, certain artwork can be used as long as the designer or company get compensation, which was done.

Reactions: Like 1 | Disagree 1


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## Feliks Karp (3/10/16)

Igno said:


> Okay. so I did my research on the juice discussed here and came in contact with the creator. The original designer is from Deviant Art who painted the image with brushed, stroke lines and pen-tooling. It was gifted to dota2wallpapers to be used with their own filter on top. Phantom, (the juice line in question) bought permission with a licensing fee from the designer as it worked out cheaper than a hired graphic designer.
> 
> So, I for once would like to state that Phantom went through all the right channels and procedures. As a graphic designer myself, I am also not supporting copying or piracy but as long as all the right procedures were followed, which its was, certain artwork can be used as long as the designer or company get compensation, which was done.



You can't "licence" IP for commercial purposes that doesn't belong to you even fan art. I can't go draw mickey mouse and make t-shirts, disney will have my balls on a fire in two seconds.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Disagree 1


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## KlutcH (3/10/16)

Igno said:


> Okay. so I did my research on the juice discussed here and came in contact with the creator. The original designer is from Deviant Art who painted the image with brushed, stroke lines and pen-tooling. It was gifted to dota2wallpapers to be used with their own filter on top. Phantom, (the juice line in question) bought permission with a licensing fee from the designer as it worked out cheaper than a hired graphic designer.
> 
> So, I for once would like to state that Phantom went through all the right channels and procedures. As a graphic designer myself, I am also not supporting copying or piracy but as long as all the right procedures were followed, which its was, certain artwork can be used as long as the designer or company get compensation, which was done.



Great to know...

So anyone keen for a game of dota 2 ?


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## RichJB (3/10/16)

So if I'm understanding it correctly, the artist created the work and gave it to a wallpapers site. The juice maker contacted the artist and paid him to use his artwork. The unanswered question is whether Valve allowed the artist to use their game artwork, or to act as an agent to sell it on to third parties.

On a somewhat related note, I once interviewed an EA representative who told me about the time that they approached Bernie Ecclestone with a view to buying the F1 licence to use exclusively with EA racing sims. EA came in all gaming-heavy-hitters-ish and said to Bernie "Give us a figure, how much?" And Bernie just smiled and said "There is not enough money in all the banks in all the world..."

Reactions: Like 1


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## Caveman (3/10/16)

Feliks Karp said:


> You can't "licence" IP for commercial purposes that doesn't belong to you even fan art. I can't go draw mickey mouse and make t-shirts, disney will have my balls on a fire in two seconds.



Unless he is the original creator of the image, ie, the one that Dota used. Although highly doubtful, it is possible that Dota also bought the rights to the image from the same dude.

Your point holds valid though. Copy an paste, printing, tracing, drawing from memory are all still valid copyright infringements and unless the fan art is the point of origin, the guy who drew the fan art cannot give permission to use it or get paid for it, that will go into the realm of fraud, unless, of course, the fan art is the original image that Dota sourced.


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## KimVapeDashian (3/10/16)

Igno said:


> Okay. so I did my research on the juice discussed here and came in contact with the creator. The original designer is from Deviant Art who painted the image with brushed, stroke lines and pen-tooling. It was gifted to dota2wallpapers to be used with their own filter on top. Phantom, (the juice line in question) bought permission with a licensing fee from the designer as it worked out cheaper than a hired graphic designer.
> 
> So, I for once would like to state that Phantom went through all the right channels and procedures. As a graphic designer myself, I am also not supporting copying or piracy but as long as all the right procedures were followed, which its was, certain artwork can be used as long as the designer or company get compensation, which was done.



In what form are you qualified to state that Phantom went through all the right channels.

I see you typed a reply in this thread, and your reputation counts for something - but without a copy of correspondence, certificates of authenticity ("pinch of salt") or something other than a simple forum post.

I love Dota2, I loved Dota1 - proof of your investigations, or I remain SALTY AF


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## Igno (3/10/16)

Formal permission was given to use the character as it promotes along their customer base who recognises where it initiates from, along with credits in Phantom's company information, which is established in memory of Phantom assassin which will be on the website once live.


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## Igno (3/10/16)

I am not associated with the creator in any way, just followed up on the matter because as I've stated before, I am a designer myself and therefore do not condone stealing images for profit by any means.


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## KimVapeDashian (3/10/16)

Igno said:


> I am not associated with the creator in any way, just followed up on the matter because as I've stated before, I am a designer myself and therefore do not condone stealing images for profit by any means.



Noted dude,
you missed my point entirely.


PS - i know the guy that made dota, so trust me.


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## Feliks Karp (3/10/16)

Igno said:


> Formal permission was given to use the character as it promotes along their customer base who recognises where it initiates from, along with credits in Phantom's company information, which is established in memory of Phantom assassin which will be on the website once live.



Wait ,ok , so you're now saying valve gave permission for PA to be used on a vape juice label? 

So who is the mystery creator then? I would like to contact him myself for all this authenticity.


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## KimVapeDashian (3/10/16)

Feliks Karp said:


> Wait ,ok , so you're now saying valve gave permission for PA to be used on a vape juice label?
> 
> So who is the mystery creator then? I would like to contact him myself for all this authenticity.



Igno already did the research dude - dont you read?

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Igno (3/10/16)

I will get permission to supply contact details and PM you @Feliks Karp , in the meanwhile, let's give this creator the benefit of the doubt instead of bashing a local vendor.


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## Feliks Karp (3/10/16)

Caveman said:


> Unless he is the original creator of the image, ie, the one that Dota used. Although highly doubtful, it is possible that Dota also bought the rights to the image from the same dude.
> 
> Your point holds valid though. Copy an paste, printing, tracing, drawing from memory are all still valid copyright infringements and unless the fan art is the point of origin, the guy who drew the fan art cannot give permission to use it or get paid for it, that will go into the realm of fraud, unless, of course, the fan art is the original image that Dota sourced.




Here is the image as used by VALVE (certainly not fan-art) scroll down a page.
http://www.dota2.com/oracle/day2


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## Caveman (3/10/16)

Feliks Karp said:


> Here is the image as used by VALVE (certainly not fan-art) scroll down a page.
> http://www.dota2.com/oracle/day2


It could have been fan-art originally, that was my point, and Valve either bought or got permission. Again highly unlikely. It could also be case of the creator on DevArt giving permission he is not allowed to, or this whole thing is actually legit.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## KimVapeDashian (3/10/16)

Well if it is legit, then I will moan that it is in poor taste to use video games / HYPE to sell an eliquid.

What do we get next?

LEGO Eliquids? Pokemon Eliquids - Oh, wait. scratch the last one, that went viral already.


(PS if you do not know who Phantom Assassin / PA is, you are probably older *OR *blindly stuck playing something like League of Legends)

Reactions: Agree 1


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## RichJB (3/10/16)

I haven't had time for Dota since Gizmo posted the Snake game. I wonder if there is a multiplayer version?


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## Feliks Karp (3/10/16)

Caveman said:


> It could have been fan-art originally, that was my point, and Valve either bought or got permission. Again highly unlikely. It could also be case of the creator on DevArt giving permission he is not allowed to, or this whole thing is actually legit.



Sorry I meant to reply to another post but yes EXTREMELY unlikely since valve have a submission system for in game stuff via steam workshop, even then it becomes partly owned by valve. They hire a specific art team to keep anything else in line with their art style. The image in question was used for the launch of an in-game item that changes the default model's appearance, there would be no fan-art of something that had yet to exist. Most countries allow for fair use when something is derivative enough or used for satire/comedy, it's how people like threadless and other various print on demand shops get away with things.

YOU CAN NOT LEGALLY SELL OR LICENCE IMAGES OF IP TO WHICH YOU DO NOT OWN THE RIGHTS TO DO SO, fan art or otherwise, they usually let people sell once-offs etc because policing it would be alot more work than it is worth, but licensing some one to produce commercial products with an image of a character you do not own is completely illegal.

Besides the fact that this isnt fan-art, even if it was is completely irrelevant, you cant sell it, and it is up to the owner of a business to make sure of this either way.

If valve had licensed this, it would have blown up all over things like reddit long before here.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Caveman (3/10/16)

Feliks Karp said:


> Sorry I meant to reply to another post but yes EXTREMELY unlikely since valve have a submission system for in game stuff via steam workshop, even then it becomes partly owned by valve. They hire a specific art team to keep anything else in line with their art style. The image in question was used for the launch of an in-game item that changes the default model's appearance, there would be no fan-art of something that had yet to exist. Most countries allow for fair use when something is derivative enough or used for satire/comedy, it's how people like threadless and other various print on demand shops get away with things.
> 
> YOU CAN NOT LEGALLY SELL OR LICENCE IMAGES OF IP TO WHICH YOU DO NOT OWN THE RIGHTS TO DO SO, fan art or otherwise, they usually let people sell once-offs etc because policing it would be alot more work than it is worth, but licensing some one to produce commercial products with an image of a character you do not own.
> 
> ...


Yep, I agree 100% with you.


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## Imperator (3/10/16)

@Feliks Karp 

Plus, we don't have fair use provisions in SA copyright law, only fair dealing (which is far narrower and this piece would not qualify). 

I'm calling BS on the whole licensing thing too.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## stevie g (3/10/16)

I'm sure Valve wouldn't be pleased to be associated with a vape juice.


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