# Nic salt .....yoh!



## CyberJoe

Been vaping for 6 years. 
Spent the last 6 years trying to find a replacement for my beloved Malboro Lights 

So I picked up a bottle of Nic Salts today, 50mg Secret Sauce. Went back, put fresh cotton in, wet the coil, filled the tank, and took a drag, man oh man, that thing klapped me like a Texan plain during school. 

Headrush of note, immediate heart rate increase, but not pleasant at all. That was at 5pm, it is now 8pm, I am still nauseous! So I guess it was just way too strong.

Reactions: Like 3 | Funny 2


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## Smoke_A_Llama

Out of curiosity what set up did you use ? Wattage, resistance etc

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 5


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## CyberJoe

Smoke_A_Llama said:


> Out of curiosity what set up did you use ? Wattage, resistance etc



0.6ohm, 25watt.


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## Adephi

Might not be nic salts, I took 2 drags from a friend's twisp cue over the weekend. 36mg. That was way more than enough for me.

Reactions: Like 1


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## CyberJoe

No definitely was, without a doubt. Rinsed the tank out, replaced the cottom, and refilled with my regular mix. (Liqua with some extra VG added in.)

Reactions: Like 1


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## Adephi

CyberJoe said:


> No definitely was, without a doubt. Rinsed the tank out, replaced the cottom, and refilled with my regular mix. (Liqua with some extra VG added in.)


 Nah, was referring to my case as not being nic salts.

What device did you use?

Reactions: Winner 1


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## CyberJoe

The savour mtl


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## Rob Fisher

CyberJoe said:


> The savour mtl



I'm not surprised it hit you like a freight train. Nic Salts are made for very tight MTL systems and Pods at low wattages.

I'm not a fan of Nic Salts one bit! Not only do they taste kak but they deliver a nic hit of note! Kinda opposite of what us vapers are trying to do. Nic Salts do have a place... and that's getting people off stinkies.

Reactions: Agree 6


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## CyberJoe

Rob Fisher said:


> I'm not surprised it hit you like a freight train. Nic Salts are made for very tight MTL systems and Pods at low wattages.



What would the specs be for that? I have another tank I can maybe try and build to spec then.


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## Rob Fisher

CyberJoe said:


> What would the specs be for that? I have another tank I can maybe try and build to spec then.



1ohm coils at 12 to 15 watts.

Reactions: Agree 4


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## Daniel

And this is the whole problem I have with nic salts and uneducated 'guesses' on ohms and wattage. Nic salts is aimed at getting that nic 'hit' when you need it so I totally get where the OP is coming from....

Nic salts are meant to be used in pod systems if you must use it in RBAs keep it 1.0ohm and up no fancy wires like Clapton hoping to get flavour out of it. It's a ceacation substance/method period...

If you want to stay off the stinkies get a refillable pod system....

Reactions: Agree 4


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## Resistance

you would get that issue with that setup.a good mtl vape is somewhere in between a higher ohm coil and a lower wattage.with a 0.6ohm coil somewhere between 7 and 11 watts should do the trick ,somewhere between 7-15w does a good job at 18mg on a 1ohm-1ohm + coil


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## CyberJoe

Rob Fisher said:


> 1ohm coils at 12 to 15 watts.



Thanks, will try and get that built tomorrow, still new to this whole coiling business.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Daniel

CyberJoe said:


> Thanks, will try and get that built tomorrow, still new to this whole coiling business.


Honestly if you new to this and want to get off the stinkies spend the bucks and get a pod device.... Aspire Breeze 2 or the like

Reactions: Agree 1


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## CyberJoe

Daniel said:


> Honestly if you new to this and want to get off the stinkies spend the bucks and get a pod device.... Aspire Breeze 2 or the like



Not new to this, been vaping since those horrible pen devices back in 2012! New to rolling coils, have not yet mastered that yet.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Daniel

CyberJoe said:


> Not new to this, been vaping since those horrible pen devices back in 2012! New to rolling coils, have not yet mastered that yet.


No worries boet all I'm saying is use the device that suits the juice. 

Was also there with building coils I now rather just buy premade coils (and yes I've been caught saying I don't get premade coils )


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## daniel craig

@CyberJoe if you want, you can build a high resistance coil in the Savour MTL. I would say aim for around 1.4 ohms (because you have 50mg salts). If you take a look at the very popular Juul pod system, it has a coil which measures at ~1.6 ohms and I would assume it's pushing 9 Watts or so. The Juul has a similar strength (59mg). To get your device suitable for the 50mg salts, try to match the Juul.

On your Savour MTL, make sure you are using the MTL post so you can get a tight draw. Combine that draw with a high resistance coil, +-10w of power and 50mg of juice and you'll have a nice setup going.

Alternatively, you can get an Aspire Breeze 2. I've tried a few pod devices and as of yet, I haven't found a pod device as reliable and cheap to use. (coils are cheap for it and last a decent amount of time). Use the breeze 2 with a 1 ohm coils and you should be good. You can even try the 1.2 ohm coil as well to find which one suits you best. I'm currently using the 1 ohm coil with 35mg juice but I think I'm going to need a 50mg. The juice I'm using a Naked Brain Freeze and even at 35mg I find it fairly smooth with a slight throat hit. Definitely not getting any silvers.

Reactions: Winner 2 | Informative 2


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## MrGSmokeFree

@CyberJoe goodluck with your nic salt journey. We all try new stuff. I tried nic salt 50 mg and it just taste kk to me not the flavor it just had a funny taste. But anyway enjoy the jouney and we all learn something new everyday.


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## Faiyaz Cheulkar

"MTL only" is the rule I follow for nic salts. I had a similar experience when I dripped nic salts on my RDA. 
I was surprised that I dint like the head rush, I would have definitely done that again again if I had discovered nic salts few years back.


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## BATMAN

Hi Guys

I initially started off wit h 50MG nic salts and after having a continuous head ache for 3 days,i swapped it out with a friend for his 25 MG VGOD Cubanno nic salt juice.
Ever since,I have only been vaping 25MG or less.

Last week however,I tried 50MG again and it immediately increases my heart rate and restricts my breathing to an extent-And so I have come to the conclusion that 50MG is WAY too high for me.

I am currently vaping on 20MG Toffee D'luxe by Jooseliqz and it is a dream in my berserker mini with a 0.74 build at 9watts.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Hooked

@CyberJoe has illustrated the biggest problem with nic salts i.e. people don't know how to vape it. This is not a criticism of you, CyberJoe - you've just illustrated what happens when one doesn't know how to vape it. And I bet my last dollar that wherever you bought it from, didn't bother to tell you! 

A year ago, when I bought my Aspire Gusto Mini (which uses nic salts pods) few people had even heard of nic salts (unless they had the Gusto Mini). Now, so many juice brands are offering their juice with nic salts - but how many vapers know how to vape it??? Suddenly, nic salts is the in-thing and the juice brands are jumping on to the bandwagon - all in the name of ... MONEY. Makes me sick, quite frankly - and I'm not referring to the nic salts!

*Fair enough - but then be ethical and enclose a pamphlet with the juice which informs vapers how to vape it, with regards to ohms and wattage.*

In addition, nic salts in now available in liquid form, so one doesn't need to use a pod system. An unwitting vaper could easily buy a bottle of this juice, having no clue what it really is. 

@CyberJoe, nic salts is NOT "kak" as some peeps have said - but it has its place and the vaper must know what he/she is doing. 

I usually vape 3mg, as I chain-vape. But - I take a puff of nic salts (or ordinary juice but in high nic) in between. By the afternoon though, I'm craving nic and then I switch to nic salts for an hour or two . Just lately, I've been craving a stinkie - don't know why, since I stopped smoking more than 3 years ago - and it's nic salts which are keeping me on the straight and narrow. 

These are the set-ups which I use:

Aspire Gusto Mini (with nic salts pods of 20mg). The Gusto Mini gives a strong throat hit, if that's what you're after - it's an awesome little mod. Downside: the pods are a bit expensive.

Nautilus Mini tank: It takes commercial coils of 1,6ohm and I vape at no higher than 10W. Very soft on the throat but still gives my body the nic it needs. I use nic salts juice of between 20mg - 35mg. 

EGO AIO ECO - I takes commercial coils of 0.5ohm which is strange, because one shouldn't sub-ohm nic salts. However, this device was designed specifically for high nic vaping and the wattage is very low (and can't be adjusted). Also soft on the throat but obviously gives the nic hit.

@CyberJoe I'm sorry that you had a bad experience and I hold the juice manufacturers to blame, for not including information with the juice. As other peeps have said above, try again, this time armed with the knowledge which you need! Enjoy - and keep us posted!

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 2


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## Rob Fisher

I have an interesting test coming up. I got a bottle of Freshly Squeezed Salts in 3mg that is Nic Salts made for Sub Ohm tanks!

Reactions: Like 3 | Informative 1


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## CyberJoe

Shot, awesome post and help. 

Nope, shop said nothing, I asked about it, and asked strength, they gave me a pod thing to try and said it was 25mg, I said that did nothing for me, and got the 50mg, but no, nothing was said about wattage, although I did ask for coils over 1 ohm, and was offered 0.2 instead....

I am going to try and build a coil now, but if that fails it is no sweat, I have a few Nautilus, Nautilus Mini, Nautilus 2, K2 etc here in the drawer with plenty of 1.6 coils for it, so I can do that, the only reason I have been moving towards the building route is to save on coil cost.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## daniel craig

Rob Fisher said:


> I have an interesting test coming up. I got a bottle of Freshly Squeezed Salts in 3mg that is Nic Salts made for Sub Ohm tanks!
> View attachment 140391


Good juice. Made by one of the partners of Cuttwood e-liquids.


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## Hooked

Rob Fisher said:


> I have an interesting test coming up. I got a bottle of Freshly Squeezed Salts in 3mg that is Nic Salts made for Sub Ohm tanks!
> View attachment 140391



Interesting and unusual that it's only 3mg - there aren't many nic salts around which are not high nic. And if it's only 3mg then yes, it could be sub-ohmed. As far as I know, it's not the nic salts per se that can not be sub-ohmed - it's the strength of the nic. The same applies to freebase high nic, doesn't it? I often vape freebase at 12mg - 18mg nic, but then I vape it in the Nautilus at 8W - 10W.

I don't see the point of a brand using nic salts for low nic. One of my coffees had 3mg nic salts: Milkshake Liquids/Secret Menu - Wake Up Wake Up. What would be interesting is if I could get the same juice but in freebase nic, to compare the difference!


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## Hooked

Adephi said:


> Nah, was referring to my case as not being nic salts.



@Adephi As far as I know, Twisp doesn't use nic salts in their juice. But remember that the Twisp devices are designed specifically to cope with high nic strength


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## Hooked

Rob Fisher said:


> I'm not surprised it hit you like a freight train. Nic Salts are made for very tight MTL systems and Pods at low wattages.
> 
> I'm not a fan of Nic Salts one bit! Not only do they taste kak but they deliver a nic hit of note! Kinda opposite of what us vapers are trying to do. Nic Salts do have a place... and that's getting people off stinkies.



@Rob Fisher Funny thing is that when I started vaping I alternated between zero nic and 3mg, but my nic strength seems to be increasing - quite the opposite of most peeps, it seems. The story of my life.


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## daniel craig

Hooked said:


> Interesting and unusual that it's only 3mg - there aren't many nic salts around which are not high nic. And if it's only 3mg then yes, it could be sub-ohmed. As far as I know, it's not the nic salts per se that can not be sub-ohmed - it's the strength of the nic. The same applies to freebase high nic, doesn't it? I often vape freebase at 12mg - 18mg nic, but then I vape it in the Nautilus at 8W - 10W.
> 
> I don't see the point of a brand using nic salts for low nic. One of my coffees had 3mg nic salts: Milkshake Liquids/Secret Menu - Wake Up Wake Up. What would be interesting is if I could get the same juice but in freebase nic, to compare the difference!


They use salts because the throat hit is smoother/not present. You get different types of nic salts. If you take a look at Nude Nicotine, one of the suppliers of nicotine, you'll see they have 3 different types of nic salts. If I remember correctly, one is very smooth, one has a throat hit and the other one is in between the 2.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## CyberJoe

This is all getting far too complicated, I miss stopping at the spar and getting a pack of 20

Reactions: Funny 3 | Can relate 3


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## Hooked

Rob Fisher said:


> I'm not surprised it hit you like a freight train. Nic Salts are made for very tight MTL systems and Pods at low wattages.
> 
> I'm not a fan of Nic Salts one bit! Not only do they taste kak but they deliver a nic hit of note! Kinda opposite of what us vapers are trying to do. Nic Salts do have a place... and that's getting people off stinkies.



@Rob Fisher Funny thing is that when I started vaping I alternated between zero nic and 3mg, but my nic strength seems to be increasing - quite the opposite of most peeps, it seems. The story of my life.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Ruwaid

Adephi said:


> Might not be nic salts, I took 2 drags from a friend's twisp cue over the weekend. 36mg. That was way more than enough for me.


@Adephi is your friend filling his own 36mg juice bud? I thought twisp cue pods were 20mg or 24mg?


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## Rob Fisher

Hooked said:


> @Rob Fisher Funny thing is that when I started vaping I alternated between zero nic and 3mg, but my nic strength seems to be increasing - quite the opposite of most peeps, it seems. The story of my life.



Not good @Hooked! I blame Nic Salts... they are the devil's work!

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Rob Fisher

CyberJoe said:


> This is all getting far too complicated, I miss stopping at the spar and getting a pack of 20



And that right there is one of the biggest hurdles to converting stinkies!

Reactions: Agree 1


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## RichJB

Hooked said:


> @Rob Fisher Funny thing is that when I started vaping I alternated between zero nic and 3mg, but my nic strength seems to be increasing - quite the opposite of most peeps, it seems.



Not any longer. Wayne is getting a lot of emails and messages from people saying that they tried nic salts, can't go back to freebase because it isn't satisfying anymore, and they are now on much higher nic than previously. skiddlz went back to smoking after experimenting with nic salts, and some others are too.

I think it's an unfortunate development. I get that they want a nic that smokers can transition to easily. But the industry is under severe scrutiny at the moment due to the fears that harm reduction will be used as a pretext to induce addiction among never-smokers. Vaping will not get away from the reality that it is an industry, and that an industry's primary goal is to make money. Public health is not going to sit by idly while vaping converts a billion never-smokers into lifelong customers under the pretext of harm reduction. Never-smokers don't have any harms to reduce. 

On the other hand, there is a legit need to have high-nic devices to encourage smokers to switch. So it's a really difficult issue to balance. And nobody, not even the regulators, seems to have an answer at the moment. Scott Gottlieb has asked the vaping industry to engage with him and formulate a strategy to ensure that smokers are given every incentive to switch - but that never-smokers aren't induced into becoming nicotine addicts. The industry hasn't given him any response because there is no answer. No industry turns away customers. I don't know how they are going to proceed from here.

I think ultimately it comes down to people making their own choices. I worked hard to wean myself incrementally down to 2mg nic, with the result that I can now go without nic for 5-6 hours no problem. I would rather stick needles in my eyes than try 50mg salts. I don't care how popular or "in" salts become, I'm not touching that with a barge pole. Being enslaved to nic, such that I can't even go one hour without it, is a situation I'm not going to revisit.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 10 | Informative 1


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## Rob Fisher

RichJB said:


> Not any longer. Wayne is getting a lot of emails and messages from people saying that they tried nic salts, can't go back to freebase because it isn't satisfying anymore, and they are now on much higher nic than previously. skiddlz went back to smoking after experimenting with nic salts, and some others are too.
> 
> I think it's an unfortunate development. I get that they want a nic that smokers can transition to easily. But the industry is under severe scrutiny at the moment due to the fears that harm reduction will be used as a pretext to induce addiction among never-smokers. Vaping will not get away from the reality that it is an industry, and that an industry's primary goal is to make money. Public health is not going to sit by idly while vaping converts a billion never-smokers into lifelong customers under the pretext of harm reduction. Never-smokers don't have any harms to reduce.
> 
> On the other hand, there is a legit need to have high-nic devices to encourage smokers to switch. So it's a really difficult issue to balance. And nobody, not even the regulators, seems to have an answer at the moment. Scott Gottlieb has asked the vaping industry to engage with him and formulate a strategy to ensure that smokers are given every incentive to switch - but that never-smokers aren't induced into becoming nicotine addicts. The industry hasn't given him any response because there is no answer. No industry turns away customers. I don't know how they are going to proceed from here.
> 
> I think ultimately it comes down to people making their own choices. I worked hard to wean myself incrementally down to 2mg nic, with the result that I can now go without nic for 5-6 hours no problem. I would rather stick needles in my eyes than try 50mg salts. I don't care how popular or "in" salts become, I'm not touching that with a barge pole. Being enslaved to nic, such that I can't even go one hour without it, is a situation I'm not going to revisit.



100% agree @RichJB! What you said!

Reactions: Like 1


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## CyberJoe

Stuck a new coil into a Nautilus 2, and put it onto an old Evod Mega battery I had lying in the drawer, and it actually works. OK, clearly this is the type of setup, I think this can work, but it still seems very strong, I think the 50mg is a bit much maybe. The evod runs at 3.7v, and I think with the 1.8 coil around 7watt.


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## Hooked

Rob Fisher said:


> I'm not surprised it hit you like a freight train. Nic Salts are made for very tight MTL systems and Pods at low wattages.
> 
> I'm not a fan of Nic Salts one bit! Not only do they taste kak but they deliver a nic hit of note! Kinda opposite of what us vapers are trying to do. Nic Salts do have a place... and that's getting people off stinkies.



@Rob Fisher Funny thing is that when I started vaping I alternated between zero nic and 3mg, but my nic strength seems to be increasing - quite the opposite of most peeps, it seems. The story of my life.


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## bjorncoetsee

Nic salts gets u 10 times more addicted than freebase. U may not feel it in ur throat, but ur body will keep craving it as its such high nic, 20 to 60mg is insane. U will have a hard time coming of this. We suppose to go down in nic strenght, not up. And juice makers knows this, and that you will keep coming back for more and more. Thats why u dont see much freebase nic juices for mtl or pod devices. Its a money making scheme and most people falling for it. So sad.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Hooked

Rob Fisher said:


> Not good @Hooked! I blame Nic Salts... they are the devil's work!



@Rob Fisher Nope - i blame Vape King  because all my freebase high nic juice is their housebrand! I love their two vanillas especially!

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## Ruwaid

Rob Fisher said:


> Not good @Hooked! I blame Nic Salts... they are the devil's work!


Think its easier to ween off freebase than it is to ween off nic salts

Reactions: Agree 3


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## CyberJoe

At least a bit of good coming from this thread! Rolled a coil, it came out at about 1ohm, and can already taste/feel a distinct difference in the Savour using my regular mix (which is a mix of Liqua Traditional Tobacco, Liqua Menthol, and plain VG, probably 1/3 of each.)

Tried rolling with 28 wire, far too thin for my thick fingers, used a thicker wire and it is working, this might just be the future

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## Hooked

Ruwaid said:


> Think its easier to ween off freebase than it is to ween off nic salts



I don't want to be weaned off anything! I like my nic - gives me energy!


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## daniel craig

@Hooked You're not alone. I moved from 18mg to 3mg and now I'm at 6mg, 35mg salts and 50mg salts. I kind of vape any strength besides 0mg now.

As for salts, I'd rather do 15mg normal nic than salts but these days it's impossible to find high strength juices while salts are much more accessible and widely available. Although 15 or 18mg juices is significantly less nic content than a 50mg salt juice, the throat hit from the 15mg juice satisfies you. I started with 35mg salts but it feels weak in the pod device that is why I now moved to 50mg salt. When the throat hit is minimal, its easy for me to vape more of it and as @RichJB pointed it, it's probably going to be more addictive. At the moment, I can do 4+ hours or even a 7 hours without vaping at all.

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## HPBotha

What I hate about nic salts..... is that it is the new 'have to have' for MTL.

Back in my day MTL was referring to the draw. A good MTL juice, a kayfun at 11w was something you savoured.

I, personally, have no time for Nic salts in rebuildables. The only place for it is in under powered prefilled devices. Having people pop in heavy nic juice in their own tanks is asking for a slew of nic overdose cases, potentially turning people away from vaping. 1 Ohm builds where the play ground for 18mg Nic. The only reason 3mg has become the new norm is sub-ohm vaping and the increased vapour production.

Get people of stinkies, and then introduce them to lower nic.

Freebase is free...nic salts make for salty nic users.* now get me my Tark's reserve Port Royal and my Kayfun, you young wipper-snappers!*

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## Daniel

Nothing beats a good old MTL setup with a good 12-18mg free base tobacco juice. I'm with @RichJB the industry is converting never-smokers slowly but surely and caring less for harm reduction....I'm sensing a snake in the grass much like Big pharma had been touting that cannabis is 'bad' for you to sell more drugs....

I personally know 3 0mg vapers who transitioned to 3mg cause as we all know the Nic increases the flavor.

In the end they are all in it to make money period....


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## Daniel

Rob Fisher said:


> I have an interesting test coming up. I got a bottle of Freshly Squeezed Salts in 3mg that is Nic Salts made for Sub Ohm tanks!
> View attachment 140391


I might be wrong so tagging Kobus aka @Irfaan Ebrahim but nic salts if vaped at higher wattages and sub ohm actually creates a carcinogenic effect #nodrama btw


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## Hooked

daniel craig said:


> @Hooked You're not alone. I moved from 18mg to 3mg and now I'm at 6mg, 35mg salts and 50mg salts. I kind of vape any strength besides 0mg now.
> 
> As for salts, I'd rather do 15mg normal nic than salts but these days it's impossible to find high strength juices while salts are much more accessible and widely available. Although 15 or 18mg juices is significantly less nic content than a 50mg salt juice, the throat hit from the 15mg juice satisfies you. I started with 35mg salts but it feels weak in the pod device that is why I now moved to 50mg salt. When the throat hit is minimal, its easy for me to vape more of it and as @RichJB pointed it, it's probably going to be more addictive. At the moment, I can do 4+ hours or even a 7 hours without vaping at all.



@daniel craig I'm glad I'm not alone in the jungle! I've never tried 50mg nic salts; 35mg is the highest I've gone. You say tht you can go for 4 - 7 hours without vaping at all - and that I can't do. I chain-vape because I'm lucky to be at home all day. If I were still working it would be different. But when I chain-vape it's only 3mg. When I need more nic I vape high nic in between the 3mg.

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## daniel craig

Hooked said:


> @daniel craig I'm glad I'm not alone in the jungle! I've never tried 50mg nic salts; 35mg is the highest I've gone. You say tht you can go for 4 - 7 hours without vaping at all - and that I can't do. I chain-vape because I'm lucky to be at home all day. If I were still working it would be different. But when I chain-vape it's only 3mg. When I need more nic I vape high nic in between the 3mg.


The only time I can go for long without needing to vape is when I'm out or busy. If I have it with me, I'll use it normally but if I forget it or don't carry it with me then I don't really start getting major withdrawals. At home I use my vape all the time and I don't think I ever go more than 30 minutes without at least taking a drag or 2. I also tend to chain vape when I use 3mg that is why I always need to have a high strength setup as well. I use the 3mg setups for flavor chasing and the high strength setups to get my fix.

At the moment I am using a 35mg Salt juice but it does seem weak but that's probably because its smooth. A 15mg juice give me a better throat hit and I think I'm searching for a similar throat hit which is why I moved up to 50mg. Also, with 50mg I can take 3-5 puffs and I'm good.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Daniel

Hooked said:


> @daniel craig I'm glad I'm not alone in the jungle! I've never tried 50mg nic salts; 35mg is the highest I've gone. You say tht you can go for 4 - 7 hours without vaping at all - and that I can't do. I chain-vape because I'm lucky to be at home all day. If I were still working it would be different. But when I chain-vape it's only 3mg. When I need more nic I vape high nic in between the 3mg.



I call BS on @daniel craig going 3-7 hours without a nic hit if he's vaping 50mg nic salts  maybe you only just started on it but give it time....

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## daniel craig

Daniel said:


> I call BS on @daniel craig going 3-7 hours without a nic hit if he's vaping 50mg nic salts  maybe you only just started on it but give it time....


I can do 3+ hours without vaping all day everyday. I started 50mg salts only like 3 days ago though.

Do salts get you 'more' addicted? I figured they'll just lessen the Craving much faster and since more nic will be in the blood stream, you'll be able to do without it for longer?

For example, with 3mg I'll take much more drags to get my nic fix and even after satisfying the Craving, you still start to feel for it again much faster compared to if I use 15mg in a MTL RTA.


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## Irfaan Ebrahim

Daniel said:


> I might be wrong so tagging Kobus aka @Irfaan Ebrahim but nic salts if vaped at higher wattages and sub ohm actually creates a carcinogenic effect #nodrama btw


This is true @Daniel
I've put this through a test and realised that our bodies don't metabolise nic salts correctly.. I've been with the flu for 3 months.. The moment I stopped salts my flu went.. 5 or 6 other ppl including juice makers have testified too.. 

Sent from my VTR-L09 using Tapatalk

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## Andre

Seems to me nic salts should be avoided.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 7


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## daniel craig

@Daniel @Irfaan Ebrahim do you guys by any chance have a link to a study or something explaining nic salts at high wattages. I remember a good couple months ago @method1 had some info but I can't seem to locate it.


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## RichJB

daniel craig said:


> Do salts get you 'more' addicted? I figured they'll just lessen the Craving much faster and since more nic will be in the blood stream, you'll be able to do without it for longer?
> 
> For example, with 3mg I'll take much more drags to get my nic fix and even after satisfying the Craving, you still start to feel for it again much faster compared to if I use 15mg in a MTL RTA.



That is the theory, yes. The problem for me is that smoking/vaping was/is as much about the mechanical routine and oral fixation as about the chemical addiction. I don't vape when I need to get nic, I vape when it's available. Not chain-vaping, but regularly. So if I had a 50mg device, I'd only vape it slightly less than my 2mg device. I would very, very quickly re-acclimatise myself to sky-high nic intake.

This is why I followed my approach of low nic but vaping more often. I work from home so I can vape any time, I'm not restricted to smoke breaks. However, my rule is that I only vape in my study. If I'm in the kitchen or watching TV, I don't vape. So a movie or rugby match on TV means I don't vape for two hours. If I go out, I leave the vape behind. No vaping in the car either. With these frequent lengthy breaks, and low nic when I am vaping regularly in my study, I've kept a lid on my nic intake without having to consciously vape less often when the vape is available and to hand.

Reactions: Like 3


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## daniel craig

RichJB said:


> That is the theory, yes. The problem for me is that smoking/vaping was/is as much about the mechanical routine and oral fixation as about the chemical addiction. I don't vape when I need to get nic, I vape when it's available. Not chain-vaping, but regularly. So if I had a 50mg device, I'd only vape it slightly less than my 2mg device. I would very, very quickly re-acclimatise myself to sky-high nic intake.
> 
> This is why I followed my approach of low nic but vaping more often. I work from home so I can vape any time, I'm not restricted to smoke breaks. However, my rule is that I only vape in my study. If I'm in the kitchen or watching TV, I don't vape. So a movie or rugby match on TV means I don't vape for two hours. If I go out, I leave the vape behind. No vaping in the car either. With these frequent lengthy breaks, and low nic when I am vaping regularly in my study, I've kept a lid on my nic intake without having to consciously vape less often when the vape is available and to hand.


I remember there was a lawsuit recently were vapers were suing JUUL for getting them addicted to nic. 1 statement said that a guy was a casual 1 or 2 cigarettes a day or so smoker and is now hooked after using the JUUL (59mg salt nicotine pod). From this statement I think that salt nic will make you more dependable on nicotine and due to such a high concentration, I would assume it'll be quite difficult to cut down. 

I use such high strength purely for the throat hit it offers and not so much for that amount of nicotine. An 18mg/15mg freebase nicotine juice is perfect for me but it's also much harder to find compared to a 50mg or 35mg salt juice. I think salts are still too new in the market. I will probably finish up my bottle of salt nic juice and maybe try finding an alternative high strength freebase juice. I think salts will do more harm than good.

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## Puff the Magic Dragon

I am ashamed to admit that I almost got caught up in the latest pod hype. I regularly watch my several "trusted" TouTube reviewers. Over the past few months they have been doing tons of reviews on the latest pods. They are all really pushing them. Some stress the fact that they are for people trying to quit stinkies, but they *also promote them to experienced vapers by stressing their ease of use and portability.*

*The hype almost caught me*. I was at the research phase. I had nearly decided on a pod (for its claimed benefits) then a new "better" one would be released.

Thanks to this thread ( @CyberJoe ) the decision has been made. I will *never *buy a pod system or try salts.

I am truly proud of the fact that I am 100% stinky free for almost four years, after being a heavy Camel smoker for 35 years. I have been at 3mg for over two years, and am now mixing half my juices at 2.5mg. I am perfectly content at these levels, and will continue to reduce them.

Why on earth would I now jeopardise my personal achievement (and health) by trying out high nic devices ? @RichJB hit the nail on its head when he said that he "... would rather stick needles in my eyes than try 50mg salts". In my case I would rather masturbate with a cheese grater than try 50mg nic salts. 

I am proud of the fact that I have been able to avoid (or at least reduce) my susceptibility to hype. In this case I came soooo close. 

(These are just my personal views. No digs at salt users are intended. They seem to be very useful to smokers who are trying to quit)

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## Carnival

bjorncoetsee said:


> Nic salts gets u 10 times more addicted than freebase. U may not feel it in ur throat, but ur body will keep craving it as its such high nic, 20 to 60mg is insane. U will have a hard time coming of this. We suppose to go down in nic strenght, not up. And juice makers knows this, and that you will keep coming back for more and more. Thats why u dont see much freebase nic juices for mtl or pod devices. Its a money making scheme and most people falling for it. So sad.



I agree with what @bjorncoetsee said above. Nic salts helped me get off the stinkies, but I did notice the addiction setting in, so I stopped and went back to freebase. I'll stick to freebase from now on.

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## Hooked

Puff the Magic Dragon said:


> I am ashamed to admit that I almost got caught up in the latest pod hype. I regularly watch my several "trusted" TouTube reviewers. Over the past few months they have been doing tons of reviews on the latest pods. They are all really pushing them. Some stress the fact that they are for people trying to quit stinkies, but they *also promote them to experienced vapers by stressing their ease of use and portability.*
> 
> *The hype almost caught me*. I was at the research phase. I had nearly decided on a pod (for its claimed benefits) then a new "better" one would be released.
> 
> Thanks to this thread ( @CyberJoe ) the decision has been made. I will *never *buy a pod system or try salts.
> 
> I am truly proud of the fact that I am 100% stinky free for almost four years, after being a heavy Camel smoker for 35 years. I have been at 3mg for over two years, and am now mixing half my juices at 2.5mg. I am perfectly content at these levels, and will continue to reduce them.
> 
> Why on earth would I now jeopardise my personal achievement (and health) by trying out high nic devices ? @RichJB hit the nail on its head when he said that he "... would rather stick needles in my eyes than try 50mg salts". In my case I would rather masturbate with a cheese grater than try 50mg nic salts.
> 
> I am proud of the fact that I have been able to avoid (or at least reduce) my susceptibility to hype. In this case I came soooo close.
> 
> (These are just my personal views. No digs at salt users are intended. They seem to be very useful to smokers who are trying to quit)



I absolutely agree that if a vaper is - and has been - satisfied with vaping 3mg, then going on to high nic in ANY form would be taking 100 steps backwards. To me high nic, again in any form, is only for those who are switching from stinkies to vaping, as well as those who really do want/need high nic. If you're not in this category - don't go there!

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Hooked

Carnival said:


> I agree with what @bjorncoetsee said above. Nic salts helped me get off the stinkies, but I did notice the addiction setting in, so I stopped and went back to freebase. I'll stick to freebase from now on.



@Carnival what strength nic are you vaping with freebase?


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## Carnival

Hooked said:


> @Carnival what strength nic are you vaping with freebase?



Mostly 6mg at the moment. I tried 9mg in the Vapbucco juice line but that was so heavy for me I could hardly vape it, lol. I'd like to try higher freebase nic in non-tobacco juices though, so will see.


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## Roodt

In my journey to kick the stinkies, i tried 18mg freebase in a twisp (MTL) didn't work, then 25mg nic salt in same twisp also didn't work. I then realised, i don't feel "full" no matter how much i vaped. So i got a pulse 80w with the pulse 22mm on top, and did 6mg freebase around 30 - 40w, and i just didn't want a stinkie anymore.

Point is, there is a line between volume and strength. Even 100mg nic, with puny little clouds wont be as effective as 3mg freebase with a storm cloud assaulting your lungs. I reckon it has to do with the volume of nic absorbed by the lungs in a single drag. Larger volume, more nic once off.

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## RichJB

That may have been your experience, @Roodt, but I think most people find the opposite. Smokers tend to battle with 3mg in a mod&tank as a transition device, most are far more comfortable with a cigalike/Twisp/pod with high nic delivery. If it was all about the volume, vapers wouldn't be transitioning to salts either because it would be reducing their nic intake which would be less satisfying, not more.

I use the MixLife podcast as a litmus test. Regular hosts Atom, Kopel and ConcreteRiver were all guys who used to sport dual cell mods and drippers, chucking big clouds. Over time, they have all switched to pods. What is causing this? Is chucking smaller clouds and taking in less nic a source of great satisfaction for them? I can't see it. I think they switched because a single drag from a pod gives them the head rush that the first drag of a cigarette gave them, and which they are no longer getting from a single drag of a dripper with 3mg juice.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Roodt

RichJB said:


> That may have been your experience, @Roodt, but I think most people find the opposite. Smokers tend to battle with 3mg in a mod&tank as a transition device, most are far more comfortable with a cigalike/Twisp/pod with high nic delivery. If it was all about the volume, vapers wouldn't be transitioning to salts either because it would be reducing their nic intake which would be less satisfying, not more.
> 
> I use the MixLife podcast as a litmus test. Regular hosts Atom, Kopel and ConcreteRiver were all guys who used to sport dual cell mods and drippers, chucking big clouds. Over time, they have all switched to pods. What is causing this? Is chucking smaller clouds and taking in less nic a source of great satisfaction for them? I can't see it. I think they switched because a single drag from a pod gives them the head rush that the first drag of a cigarette gave them, and which they are no longer getting from a single drag of a dripper with 3mg juice.



I can't fault what you are saying, and i do agree. I guess the journey is different for each and every vaper. Personally, i do like a good MTL and find it very satisfying, but i do also like 6mg freebase at 35w on a 0.3 ohm build.

I guess it's a case of to each his own, as long as your smoking.

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## RichJB

Roodt said:


> I guess it's a case of to each his own, as long as your smoking.



+not.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Halfdaft

Used vaping to get away from stinkies, time to use vaping to get away from (high nic) vaping

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Roodt

RichJB said:


> +not.


Old age... been getting to me at lot more the past few days...

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## Puff the Magic Dragon

Can anyone enlighten me? Why do vapers now use the term* freebase* when referring to good old liquid nic ? I understand the technical reason but why relate vaping to drugs, particularly cocaine ?

Every dictionary definition of freebase goes along these lines.....a concentrated form of cocaine for smoking, prepared by extracting, or freeing, the alkaloid, or base, from a salt of the drug....

I have asked a few people at work what the term freebase means to them. Without exception, they answered cocaine or drugs.

Does vaping need to add to its PR issues ?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## RichJB

Blame Wayne, he was the one who used freebase to explain the difference between our nic and salts. Even then people were saying dude, did you really have to use freebase, or draw that analogy? But I guess if it helps people to understand...

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Bread rabbit

i vape a pico so im not a pen user(used to be) tried a friends twisp too its too strong, maybe at quarter strength it might be a cool sneaky vape


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## Hooked

Carnival said:


> Mostly 6mg at the moment. I tried 9mg in the Vapbucco juice line but that was so heavy for me I could hardly vape it, lol. I'd like to try higher freebase nic in non-tobacco juices though, so will see.



Vape King's house-brand "Vape King" has freebase in high nic - options to choose strength. Cheap too - only R80/35ml. They're not complex juices, but nice for that price.

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## Room Fogger

I started with a Pico and a 6 mg Menthol juice and didn’t look back. Was a between 20 and 60 a day Marlboro light junky. Have had a drag or two on salt ice devices but decided I would put myself in hospital with that. 

I now mix at 2 mg for own use, and will do 3 mg for commercial juices, but anything higher and I am higher that a kite on a windy day after just a few drags. Also able to go longer between vapes now. If I get busy I forget, but I still vape a lot in the evening and while driving. In the latter case it actually keeps me focused as I am still driving by feel some days, and it does pep me up untill I get home without falling asleep behind the wheel.

Wil stick to my normal nicotine thank you, the salts I will give a wide bearth.

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## CyberJoe

Any reason not to mix nic salt and normal liquid? Since I had the liquid lying staring me down on the desk, I ventured back and added a few drops to the tank (which is about 60/40 VG/PG), and it does add a bit of a kick!


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## Daniel

CyberJoe said:


> Any reason not to mix nic salt and normal liquid? Since I had the liquid lying staring me down on the desk, I ventured back and added a few drops to the tank (which is about 60/40 VG/PG), and it does add a bit of a kick!



Issue is nic salts should not be sub ohmed at high wattages as it is said to have a carcinogenic effect hence all the warnings with nic salts. So if used in conjunction with freebase still be midfull vaping at high wattages.....

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## CyberJoe

Daniel said:


> Issue is nic salts should not be sub ohmed at high wattages as it is said to have a carcinogenic effect hence all the warnings with nic salts. So if used in conjunction with freebase still be midfull vaping at high wattages.....



OK, running at 12watt so I presume it is ok.

Reactions: Agree 2


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