# First Corona Virus case confirmed in SA.



## Chickenstrip (5/3/20)

https://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/...-positive-case-of-covid-19-confirmed-20200305

Health Minister Dr Zweli Mkhize has confirmed that South Africa has recorded its first positive test case for the Covid-19 coronavirus.

Mkhize released a statement on Thursday confirming that the National Institute for Communicable Diseases (NCID) confirmed a positive test.

While it was not clear at which port of entry the patient landed, Mkhize said that a tracer team has been deployed to KwaZulu-Natal. The man is now self-isolated.

"The patient is a 38-year-old male who travelled to Italy with his wife. They were part of a group of 10 people and they arrived back in South Africa on 1 March," Mkhize said in the statement.


.........................


Wuhan doctor recounts anxiety and fears from virus frontline

One month after makeshift hospitals were set up in the Chinese city of Wuhan to cope with the coronavirus outbreak, frontline doctor Ma Yonggang is beginning to see light at the end of the tunnel. In an online video interview -- arranged by China'...

"The patient consulted a private general practitioner on 3 March with symptoms of fever, headache, malaise, a sore throat and a cough."

The practice nurse then took swabs and delivered it to the laboratory. The patient has been self-isolating since 3 March.

"The couple also has two children. The Emergency Operating Centre (EOC) has identified the contacts by interviewing the patient and doctor. The tracer team has been deployed to KwaZulu-Natal with epidemiologists and clinicians from the NICD."

Mkhize said the doctor has been self-isolated as well.

"This media briefing is to ensure that the public is immediately kept abreast. A press briefing will be held later after the Parliamentary debate this evening to shed more light on this issue."

Reactions: Informative 7


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## Dela Rey Steyn (5/3/20)



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## Hooked (5/3/20)

Imagine if the Coronavirus were happening around the time of VapeCon? VapeCon would have to be cancelled - or at any rate, not allow international exhibitors.

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## Hooked (5/3/20)

The Italian patient and his wife must have been on board this ship. which recently docked in Durban.

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## Adephi (5/3/20)

Just to keep it in perspective.




Not saying don't be concerned. But there is absolutely no reason to panic.

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## Drikusw (5/3/20)



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## Resistance (6/3/20)

I think our worst enemy is our own government. I survived them for 25years bring on the viruses.

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## Chickenstrip (6/3/20)



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## Silver (6/3/20)

Thanks @Chickenstrip - very interesting

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## Ruwaid (7/3/20)

Second case in Gauteng confirmed.

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## Adephi (7/3/20)

Got a message this morning from the school that all kids have to bring 60% alcohol hand sanitizer to school. Well good luck in finding that now. Eventually found some noname hand cleansing brand with action figures on at the Crazy store. It smelled like alcohol so I imagine it will do the same.

Just a few survivalist diy tips for people looking for hand sanitizers:
- most pharmacies sell 70% and 90% ethanol. Use the 70% in a spray bottle. Works brilliantly in sanitizing hand and sterilizing surfaces. It just doesn't smell like potpourri. Use handcream as it will dry your hands. Don't use the 90% on your hands. It will burn it eventually and then you sit with a chemical burn. It can be used to sterilize surfaces like tables.
- if thats not successful head over to the men's pharmacy (tops, liquor city, oom fanie se bottelstoor....). Vodka, cane and gin works just as well. Dark liquors like whiskey, brandy and rum will also work but will make you smell. Not a problem if you live in the East Rand or Pretoria West.

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## Hooked (8/3/20)

Adephi said:


> Dark liquors like whiskey, brandy and rum will also work but will make you smell. Not a problem if you live in the East Rand or Pretoria West.



 Don't people in the East Rand or Pretoria West shower, @Adephi?

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## Adephi (8/3/20)

Hooked said:


> Don't people in the East Rand or Pretoria West shower, @Adephi?



I believe they do sometimes. But I was referring to the booze.

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## Hooked (8/3/20)

"I vape and I know things" - and don't we all use Propylene Alcohol to clean our mods? The general public doesn't know about it - they go to the shelf looking for hand sanitizer. 

Any Clicks/Dischem sells Propylene Alcohol, in either 500ml or 1 lt. bottles. Just put that in a little spray bottle and voila!!

The other option is Surgical Spirits, which is meant for the skin. Once again, it's something that most people wouldn't think of buying.

Having said the above, my thoughts are that people are panic buying. There's only one way to protect yourself 100% - and that is to wear one of those what I call "astronaut" suits or NEVER leave your house and have absolutely NO contact with ANYONE at all. 

Since the above isn't feasible I think we just need to increase our normal hygiene. Nowadays, when I return from shopping I wash my hands immediately, which I never used to do. It's just a small token gesture though. One could easily contract the virus through airborn molecules.

It's interesting how the virus impacts our lives though. Someone from CT comes to see me once a week. His girlfriend works on a cruise ship, which returned to SA last week. As a precaution, I've asked him not to come and see me for now. Not taking any chances.

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## Grand Guru (8/3/20)

A very insightful video on the topic.

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## Ruwaid (8/3/20)

3 case confirmed. Patient 0's wifehas now tested positive as well.

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## DirtRider (8/3/20)

We have around 57 people murdered each day in SA, now we have 3 confirmed cases of this and everyone is in a panic

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## Chickenstrip (8/3/20)

Yeah but you can't exactly get murdered by a stranger's sneeze... Actually, I suppose that's no longer true. People getting murdered are always in gang ridden area's. Those people probably don't worry about the Corona virus at all. Similarly to how none of us worry about getting murdered.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## ARYANTO (12/3/20)

2020 Olympics to be cancelled ? 
https://japantoday.com/category/202...olympic-cancellation-would-reach-around-globe


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## Room Fogger (12/3/20)

Went to a meeting, as we left out came my hand sanitizer and voila, everyone asks if they could also get some. Got home and washed hands thoroughly before anything else. I think this may improve overall hygiene for a lot of people, a good thing I think personally. Ever been to the gents/ ladies and see people just adjust their clothing and leave?

I must add that in our house hand washing multiple times a day is normal as I have a Coeliac son, so gluten contamination prevention is key, so wash before making food, after making, clean and wash everything, but it was an eye opener for me.

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## Asterix (12/3/20)

Room Fogger said:


> Ever been to the gents/ ladies and see people just adjust their clothing and leave?


 I'm fastidious about washing my hands.... to the point where my wife thinks I have some sort of OCD! BUT I will *not* use public washroom taps that do not have an auto on/off system, or at the very least, the extended lever taps in order to close with my elbow. I have baby wipes in my car and laptop/vape bag for this very reason. Not much point in washing your hands and then closing the tap that's covered in urine, germs and other unmentionables left behind by others.

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## Room Fogger (12/3/20)

Asterix said:


> I'm fastidious about washing my hands.... to the point where my wife thinks I have some sort of OCD! BUT I will *not* use public washroom taps that do not have an auto on/off system, or at the very least, the extended lever taps in order to close with my elbow. I have baby wipes in my car and laptop/vape bag for this very reason. Not much point in washing your hands and then closing the tap that's covered in urine, germs and other unmentionables left behind by others.


Agree, I use a piece of the paper for drying hands, or if they don’t have I have my tissues in my pocket.

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## Grand Guru (12/3/20)

We shouldn’t fall into a nosophobic paranoia either... germs are everywhere on us, around us and inside of us and most of them are essential for us. It is important to know that 80% of the cases will display a mild to moderate flue (nothing that would warrant serious attention). The other 20 percent will have a more severe form of flue/pneumonia which may require more care/admission to hospital and these are mainly people above 70 years of age with cardiovascular/respiratory problems and other conditions that may lower the immunity (not talking about the HIV positive people because if they are compliant on treatment, they are supposed to have a normal immune response). Children are developing mild flue and are not really at risk.
Those for whom we should worry are our elderly. So limit the visits/close contact to a strict minimum.
P.S: We need to stay calm and not rush to buy masks and deplete our limited stock in this early stage of the epidemic. Masks should be left for those who are sick and for the healthcare professionals.

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## Chickenstrip (13/3/20)

By the by Cape Town has a confirmed case in Greenpoint. Client of ours. Hasn't hit the news yet. I agree with the above post. It's not much a big deal. What does concern me is my elderly family living in frail care that need constant contact and assistance. They're cared for by nurses who use taxi's and trains. 

Once a nurse inevitably catches it. The old age homes will have major issues.

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## CTRiaan (13/3/20)

Chickenstrip said:


> By the by Cape Town has a confirmed case in Greenpoint. Client of ours. Hasn't hit the news yet. I agree with the above post. It's not much a big deal. What does concern me is my elderly family living in frail care that need constant contact and assistance. They're cared for by nurses who use taxi's and trains.
> 
> Once a nurse inevitably catches it. The old age homes will have major issues.



From https://www.westerncape.gov.za/gc-news/147/53961

As per protocol, the National Minister of Health, Zweli Mkhize, announced two more laboratory confirmed case of COVID-19, commonly referred to as the Coronavirus, in the Western Cape - bringing the total number of confirmed cases in the province to three.

Case 2 - A 50-year-old male in the City of Cape Town, presented himself to his private doctor on 10 March after developing flu-like symptoms and a recent international travel history to Europe.

Case 3 - A 45-year old man in City of Cape Town tested positive after he also presented himself to a private facility on 11 March 2020 matching the case definition also with recent international travel history to Europe.

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## Raindance (14/3/20)



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## CTRiaan (14/3/20)



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## ARYANTO (14/3/20)

Testing in USA
*Google Coronavirus website touted by Trump*
Bloomberg14 March 2020



  
A Google virus testing website touted by U.S. President Donald Trump is at an early stage and will first come online in the San Francisco Bay Area on Monday.

Trump said at a news conference Friday that the site will help people figure out if they need to be tested for the coronavirus and then direct them to the closest location, which will include drive-through testing centers in Walmart and Target parking lots.

Alphabet Inc.’s Google has roughly 1,700 engineers working on the project, the president added.

The site is actually a virus triage tool being developed by Verily, a health-care unit of Alphabet.

It will be part of Verily’s Project Baseline and will be a section of the current website www.projectbaseline.com, according to a spokeswoman.

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## Dela Rey Steyn (14/3/20)

https://www.timeslive.co.za/amp/new...-coronavirus-is-now-negative-health-minister/

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## Grand Guru (14/3/20)

Add this link on WhatsApp messenger.
*If you do one thing today — share this service.* Help protect your loved ones by sharing this official South African government COVID-19 service with your family, friends and community. Send *HI* to *0600 123 456* on WhatsApp. OR Share this link: https://wa.me/27600123456?text=Hi Reply *MENU* to return to the main menu

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## Hooked (14/3/20)

Grand Guru said:


> Add this link on WhatsApp messenger.
> *If you do one thing today — share this service.* Help protect your loved ones by sharing this official South African government COVID-19 service with your family, friends and community. Send *HI* to *0600 123 456* on WhatsApp. OR Share this link: https://wa.me/27600123456?text=Hi Reply *MENU* to return to the main menu



@Grand Guru Have you actually tried this? I don't quite understand how to do it. The above Whatsapp number (starting with 0600...) doesn't have a Whatsapp link, so how can one send a message to it? And the rest of the numbers are 123456 hmmm seems a bit fishy


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## Hooked (14/3/20)



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## Adephi (14/3/20)

Hooked said:


> View attachment 192215



That number is correct but I'm not sure about them coming out to do tests. They will however be able to refer you to where you can go. 

Other numbers can be found on the NICD site

http://www.nicd.ac.za/contact-us/

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## ARYANTO (14/3/20)

Dela Rey Steyn said:


> https://www.timeslive.co.za/amp/new...-coronavirus-is-now-negative-health-minister/


Hilarious !!!! The Ranch used to be an exclusive red light district for over horny men in the 80's and 90's

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## Grand Guru (14/3/20)

Hooked said:


> @Grand Guru Have you actually tried this? I don't quite understand how to do it. The above Whatsapp number (starting with 0600...) doesn't have a Whatsapp link, so how can one send a message to it? And the rest of the numbers are 123456 hmmm seems a bit fishy


It works @Hooked. Once on WhatsApp you send Hi and it'll send back a menu. You can get lots of valuable info and live stats.

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## Adephi (14/3/20)

Totally agree with Dr Drew.

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## Hooked (14/3/20)

Posted by Konstantinos Farsalinos on FB https://www.facebook.com/konstantinos.farsalinos

"I am posting a translation of my previous post about the main instructions for handling the coronavirus (COVID-19) epidemic. They are applicable to every country and are relevant to the stage of the epidemic that we are currently experiencing in Europe (and probably soon in the US).

* Let's leave room for the healthcare system to help those who really need it *

The healthcare system is (or will be) under extreme pressure during the coronavirus epidemic. It is our duty not to over-stress the system so that it can provide its services to those who really need them. This is the only way to ensure that we can also benefit from the same services if and when we need them.

If we belong to a low-risk group (< 60 years old, without other predisposing conditions such as heart disease, lung disease, malignancy, diabetes) and we have symptoms typical of common cold (cough, nasal congestion, sore throat, fever), we should:

1. NOT GO TO THE HOSPITAL.
Visiting the hospital puts us at risk of contracting the coronavirus in case we are not infected. Even if we are infected, there is no specific treatment for coronavirus infection other than antipyretics (to lower fever), fluid replenishment (drink a lot of water) and rest. The hospital cannot offer anything else to us; in contrast, visiting a hospital will be an added risk and, at the same time, we will be wasting valuable (and limited) healthcare resources at the expense of those who really need them.

2. CONTACT OUR PERSONAL PHYSICIAN - ONLY BY PHONE.
We only consult our personal physician by phone. We do NOT visit him/her. We need to protect doctors, other patients will need them. And we need to protect patients who will be visiting doctors (in many cases for irrelevant to the coronavirus health problems). In any case, we expect to receive conventional advice, similar to what we receive for any common cold (as mentioned above, no specific therapy for the coronavirus is available right now).

3. GET INTO QUARANTINE (IN-HOUSE).
We should protect our family, our parents, our grandparents, our neighbors, our friends, our colleagues, the whole society. We should assume that we have been infected with coronavirus. This is a very small "sacrifice" considering the magnitude of the problem.

At the current stage of the epidemic (in Europe) ALL OF US are probable cases. But NOT all of us need special care and hospitalization. If we have common cold symptoms, we protect ourselves from unnecessary exposure to other patients (hospitals will be overcrowded with patients) who may be infected with coronavirus, and we protect others. We put ourselves into quarantine and we have patience.

THIS IS THE ONLY WAY TO ENSURE THAT SPECIAL CARE WILL BE AVAILABLE FOR US TOO, IF AND WHEN WE NEED IT.

Personal responsibility and careful use of available resources will protect us, our families and the community as a whole."

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## Hooked (14/3/20)

Adephi said:


> Totally agree with Dr Drew.




Yep, the @%&%$@ media again - just as they did with the THC deaths.

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## Silver (14/3/20)

Hooked said:


> Posted by Konstantinos Farsalinos on FB https://www.facebook.com/konstantinos.farsalinos
> 
> "I am posting a translation of my previous post about the main instructions for handling the coronavirus (COVID-19) epidemic. They are applicable to every country and are relevant to the stage of the epidemic that we are currently experiencing in Europe (and probably soon in the US).
> 
> ...



Thanks @Hooked, am glad you shared that with us
Dr Farsalinos explains it so well and clearly

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## MTL (15/3/20)

Prepare yourself to stay in home for a very long time.

In italy it is already 5 days of quarantine, all the streets are desert, the only way u can exit from home is having a paper signed that says u are going to work or buy food (only in your hometown) or for walking your dog (or wathever animal you can walk, start learning your cat to walk on a leash). If u exit for another reason u risk to get arrested or reported to police. All the shops excpet grocery and pharmacy are closed from last wednesday, the only way to buy other things is from internet.

The quarantine will be like this since march 25 and HOPEFULLY things should be better around april 4 even if i really don't think things will get better.

No idea on what the media says in south africa, for now the deaths in italy are 95% old people (more than 70 years), and the death rate is a little bit higher of a normal influence/flu. If u are younger u can be totally symptomless but still have the virus, it can be apparently harmless for u but at the same time dangerous for other peoples around u, that's why u need to cover your face and stay at least 1 meter of distance from other people.

This isn't a bullshit or an internet meme like the ww3 of january, this is real.

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## Hooked (15/3/20)

MTL said:


> Prepare yourself to stay in home for a very long time.
> 
> In italy it is already 5 days of quarantine, all the streets are desert, the only way u can exit from home is having a paper signed that says u are going to work or buy food (only in your hometown) or for walking your dog (or wathever animal you can walk, start learning your cat to walk on a leash). If u exit for another reason u risk to get arrested or reported to police. All the shops excpet grocery and pharmacy are closed from last wednesday, the only way to buy other things is from internet.
> 
> ...



Thanks for telling us what it's really like there in Italy @MTL.

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## Silver (15/3/20)

MTL said:


> Prepare yourself to stay in home for a very long time.
> 
> In italy it is already 5 days of quarantine, all the streets are desert, the only way u can exit from home is having a paper signed that says u are going to work or buy food (only in your hometown) or for walking your dog (or wathever animal you can walk, start learning your cat to walk on a leash). If u exit for another reason u risk to get arrested or reported to police. All the shops excpet grocery and pharmacy are closed from last wednesday, the only way to buy other things is from internet.
> 
> ...



Thanks @MTL 
I appreciate the feedback coming directly from you in Italy
The media I am reading is reporting it the same as you are telling it.

So sorry to hear about your situation
I think many South Africans are concerned about that situation of lockdown happening here.

I wanted to know when you have to get papers signed to go out, where do you get those papers signed? From the police?

And where in Italy are you if I may ask?

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## Adephi (15/3/20)

I found this article on how isolations prevent the spread of diseases.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/grap...wp_main&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook

Very interesting with graphs an simulations.

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## ARYANTO (15/3/20)

*Travel ban for South Africa on the cards*
Staff Writer15 March 2020



  
South Africa’s Cabinet is considering drastic measures to contain the coronavirus pandemic, including a total ban on travellers from Europe and holding sports events in empty stadiums.

This is according to a *Sunday Times report*, which said there may also be a limit on gatherings of 1,000 people.

“The cabinet will consider a recommendation that South Africans returning from high-risk countries be in quarantine for 14 days,” the Sunday Times said.

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## DougP (15/3/20)

South has launched its own corona virus update website with live stats and info. 

Suggest you all download it

https://sacoronavirus.co.za/

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk

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## MTL (15/3/20)

Silver said:


> Thanks @MTL
> I wanted to know when you have to get papers signed to go out, where do you get those papers signed? From the police?
> 
> And where in Italy are you if I may ask?



u need to download a paper and fill it https://i2.res.24o.it/pdf2010/Editr...20/03/10/modulo_autodichiarazione_1032020.pdf (it's in italian, i post it just for showing) for now u just need to have it with you to justify why u are outside your house

i live near rome and for now we had under 20 peoples with covid, in nord italy (near milan, 600km from rome) the situation is tragic

if your goverment is already shutting down services u should have no problem, unfortunately we waited too much (more than 2 weeks, officially things started getting worse from february 21) before doing it

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## ARYANTO (15/3/20)

Covid and the two ply 
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/12/opinion/toilet-paper-coronavirus.html

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## Hooked (15/3/20)

ARYANTO said:


> *Travel ban for South Africa on the cards*
> Staff Writer15 March 2020
> 
> 
> ...




If the govt. had used their grey matter, they would have put everyone coming into SA residents, into quarantine immediately upon arrival. All the cases so far have been from people who had been overseas and then returned to SA.

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## Hooked (15/3/20)

As for a travel ban in South Africa, school holidays and the Easter weekend are coming up. NOW is the time to institute a travel ban. Everyone must just stay put. Take my little town for example. We have about 1,000 permanent residents, but come Easter weekend there is an influx of visitors and the town is bursting at its seams. These visitors are those who have holiday homes here and holiday-makers who book accommodation. Just one of these people with coronavirus could spread it throughout Yzerfontein.

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## Rob Fisher (15/3/20)

Summary of Presidential Address concerning the Coronavirus

1. Declared national disaster. 
2. Limit contact between person. 
3. Imposing travel ban between high risk countries. 
4. Cancelled/revoked visas. 
5. Reframe all forms of international travel. 
6. Self isolation and testing on citizens returning from international countries. 
7. Strengthen screening at airports.
8. SA has 72 ports of entries, 35 will be shut down effective Monday. 
9. Discourage all national travel.
10. Gatherings of more than 100 people prohibited. 
11. Small gatherings unavoidable prevention and control needed. 
12. School closes 18 March till Easter week-end.
13. Visits to all correctional services are suspended for 30 days. 
14. Businesses to intensify hygiene control.

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## Resistance (15/3/20)

https://www.thezimbabwean.co/2020/03/smoking-associated-with-worse-covid-19-symptoms-and-outcomes/

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## Resistance (15/3/20)

https://www.celebgossip.co.za/gener...football-teams-to-play-in-empty-stadiums.html

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## ARYANTO (15/3/20)

Latest:
https://mybroadband.co.za/news/secu...avirus-in-south-africa.html?source=newsletter

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## ARYANTO (15/3/20)

Rob Fisher said:


> Summary of Presidential Address concerning the Coronavirus
> 
> 1. Declared national disaster.
> 2. Limit contact between person.
> ...


Rob , please move my post in here , created a new thread , missed your post. Sorry.

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## Hooked (15/3/20)

Rob Fisher said:


> Summary of Presidential Address concerning the Coronavirus
> 
> 1. Declared national disaster.
> 2. Limit contact between person.
> ...



Good - but not good enough. Inter-provincial travel within SA should be banned, as I said above.

And what's the point of limiting a gathering to 100 people? So if it's only 50 people that's safe??

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Hooked (15/3/20)

*ALERT!*

Posted on FB 26 mins. ago.




How disgusting is this!!!

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## Adephi (15/3/20)

Hooked said:


> *ALERT!*
> 
> Posted on FB 26 mins. ago.
> 
> ...



They will always find something.

Just use common sense. There is not enough resources or skilled medical staff in the world to do door-to-door testing. 

Just give a huge cough without covering and say you've already been tested positive. And see how fast they run.

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## Adephi (15/3/20)



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## Mollie (15/3/20)

Adephi said:


> They will always find something.
> 
> Just use common sense. There is not enough resources or skilled medical staff in the world to do door-to-door testing.
> 
> Just give a huge cough without covering and say you've already been tested positive. And see how fast they run.


  

Sent from my ANE-LX1 using Tapatalk

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## Resistance (15/3/20)

Once it starts affecting them personally in factors ranging from either health,wealth or security.



Adephi said:


> They will always find something.
> 
> Just use common sense. There is not enough resources or skilled medical staff in the world to do door-to-door testing.
> 
> Just give a huge cough without covering and say you've already been tested positive. And see how fast they run.


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## ARYANTO (16/3/20)

*Shout out from Makro to customers*

Makro has various measures in place to maintain a clean and healthy environment in our stores, and we have ramped these up even further. For example, we are:


Augmenting the number of cleaning staff in our stores to increase the frequency with which we wipe-down high touch point surfaces and shopping trolleys;
Providing hand sanitisers at store entrances, high touch point areas and at customer check-out; and
Intensifying staff awareness of personal preventative measures to protect their and your health.


Furthermore, from Tuesday, March 17th, our customers will not be required to present a Makro card in our stores. If this is your preference then please just communicate it to your cashier.

In addition, we are dedicated to keeping our stores stocked and prices fair. We are working especially hard to replenish hand sanitisers, cleaning supplies, paper products, and other in-demand items as quickly as possible and at our everyday low prices. We are working equally hard to secure sanitising and cleaning supplies for our own use in our stores.

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## JPDrag&Drop (16/3/20)

Hi all

just would like to say. Mass buying is silly don’t over buy, think of the next person. Some of us can, but there are people that work on weekly income, those are the people that will suffer if we go out and buy everything.
Remember this is the time as a country we need to look after each other. As a suggestion, double up on your groceries etc. buying 40 bails of toilet paper is not going to save you. 
Buying more, means prices go up. You are South Africans, we are a community, If we all work together and be more civil, we can stop the spread. What comes around, go’s around. Well that’s my opinion. If you got something bad to say or have snotty comments, rather keep it to yourself.
Thank you

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 3 | Winner 2 | Thanks 1


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## Hooked (16/3/20)

JPDrag&Drop said:


> Hi all
> 
> just would like to say. Mass buying is silly don’t over buy, think of the next person. Some of us can, but there are people that work on weekly income, those are the people that will suffer if we go out and buy everything.
> Remember this is the time as a country we need to look after each other. As a suggestion, double up on your groceries etc. buying 40 bails of toilet paper is not going to save you.
> ...



@JPDrag&Drop You don't need to worry about peeps having "something bad to say or have snotty comments". That seldom happens here. This is the ecigssa forum, not FB. Here there might be disagreement, but not bullying! On FB one can get stoned to death simply for having an opinion contrary to the other people's. I know. Happened to me a few times and again last night. 

But here, on this forum, we're adults and if we disagree, we do so in an adult way. So ... relax, this is a happy place

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 3


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## Hooked (16/3/20)




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## Hooked (16/3/20)

*Delheim Wine Estate closes after Covid-19 exposure*
https://www.capetownetc.com/news/co...im-wine-estate-closes-after-covid-19-exposure
15 March 2020

Delheim Wine Estate confirmed it would be closing its doors to the public for two weeks as a result of exposure to the coronavirus.

The Estate announced that a member of a Dutch tour group who recently visited the estate has tested positive for the Covid-19 virus. The Estate was informed of this today [March 15]. Five of the Estate’s staff were in contact with the patient in question and Delheim has decided to close as a precautionary measure...


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## Hooked (16/3/20)

*Wine Estates closing due to Corona Virus*
https://www.capetownetc.com/news/tokara-closes-to-test-staff-ahead-of-coronavirus-scare

The popular *Tokara Wine and Olive Estate in Stellenbosch* has announced that it will be closing its doors until March 24... A group of wine enthusiasts from the Netherlands visited us on March 9 in the evening for a private function while all of our departments were closed to the general public,” Tokara said in a statement. “One of the members of that group has since tested positive for the Covid-19 virus. Two members of our marketing team and the restaurant staff on duty that evening were in contact with this group and as such, we have implemented self-isolation and testing for these staff members.”

*Almenkerk Wine Estate in Elgin* was contacted by a visitor who informed them that he had tested positive for the Covid-19 virus. “The visitor was part of a group of 38 wine professionals from the Netherlands that visited us on March 10. We are not showing any symptoms, but we need to work on the assumption that we may be carriers and thus need to inform you of the potential risk, should you have visited or interacted with us subsequently,” the estate said in a statement.

*Anthonij Rupert Wyne and the L’Ormarins Estate* have also decided to restrict all visitors to the Estates. “Anthonij Rupert Estate, having operated by appointment for some time, will be reimbursing all guest bookings with prior paid reservations for the next 30 days in full. No guests will be received on the Estate from Monday, March 16, 2020 until Wednesday, April 15, 2020.

And in a separate post on FB:
*Riebeek Valley Olive Festival* has been postponed due to Corona Virus concerns.


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## Hooked (16/3/20)

*UCT confirms coronavirus case, suspends classes*
https://www.capetownetc.com/news/uct-confirms-coronavirus-case-suspends-classes
16 March 2020

The University of Cape Town (UCT) will suspend all classes for the remainder of the term from today [March 16] as a staff member has tested positive for COVID-19... “The staff member is in isolation at home....

The Term 1 vacation that would have begun on Saturday, March 21 will now commence immediately. Term 2 was scheduled to begin on Monday, March 30 but as of now, there is no new date set. Leadership will confirm a new Term 2 beginning once they have assessed the circumstances....


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## Amy (16/3/20)

Found the meat and toilet paper shelves empty already today when I went to the shop...

Reactions: Can relate 2


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## Adephi (16/3/20)

Everybody laughed when I overstocked on TP on Black Friday. Still got 18 2-ply puppies left.

Reactions: Winner 3 | Funny 1


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## DougP (16/3/20)

Scarey times






Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk

Reactions: Like 1


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## Raindance (17/3/20)

Hooked said:


> View attachment 192335


SARS CoV-2 (Corona) virus? Is this one of those publications whom research their articles on FaceBook?

Regards

Reactions: Like 1


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## Adephi (17/3/20)

Raindance said:


> SARS CoV-2 (Corona) virus? Is this one of those publications whom research their articles on FaceBook?
> 
> Regards



The Disease is called Covid-19 (corona virus disease)
The virus is called SARS-CoV-2 (severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2)

Just like HIV/AIDS.

Reactions: Like 1 | Thanks 1 | Informative 1 | Optimistic 1


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## Mollie (17/3/20)

Sent from my ANE-LX1 using Tapatalk

Reactions: Like 4


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## Mr. B (17/3/20)

Amy said:


> Found the meat and toilet paper shelves empty already today when I went to the shop...


I could find toilet paper and meat easily in Cape Town but not a drop of hand sanitiser anywhere!

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Willyza (17/3/20)



Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 5 | Can relate 1


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## Timwis (17/3/20)

Unless it changes course the UK government are playing a dangerous game based on a theory which also gives mixed messages. So sporting events are cancelled etc but they only advise not to go to pubs, clubs or restaurants rather than forcing them to close plus despite Italy's experience (we seem to be following the same trend) very reluctant to go into quarantine (hate lockdown being used as the meaning in a dictionary refers to prisoners). This is because all the government is trying to do is stagger the peak so the NHS will cope rather than attempting to stop the spread. Their reasoning is this will be a returning Virus and often those viruses are more lethal the second time around (but they are guessing) so they want at least 60% of the nation to become positive which creates what's known as Herd immunity so we will be ok when the virus returns. So risky and who's to say the virus will reemerge shortly in a deadlier form and there is no proof as yet that if you have tested positive once you can't test positive again which will completely throw their theory into one of the biggest health mistakes ever made. This gambling with peoples health as you can imagine is even a bigger worry to people like my wife with diabetes or other underlying conditions as many more will die than necessary, when factoring this in it seems morally wrong!

Reactions: Agree 1 | Informative 2


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## Mr. B (17/3/20)

Mr. B said:


> I could find toilet paper and meat easily in Cape Town but not a drop of hand sanitiser anywhere!


Correction: I could find toilet paper easily on Sunday. I've heard from a few colleagues that toilet paper has run out in a few areas since Monday's announcement

Reactions: Like 1


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## zadiac (17/3/20)

Hooked said:


> *ALERT!*
> 
> Posted on FB 26 mins. ago.
> 
> ...



This should not surprise you at all. This is SA after all. The crims will use ANY way they can to rob you.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## zadiac (17/3/20)

Mr. B said:


> I could find toilet paper and meat easily in Cape Town but not a drop of hand sanitiser anywhere!



You can make your own hand sanitizer easily with isopropyl alcohol and aloe vera gel

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Thanks 1 | Informative 1


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## Timwis (17/3/20)

zadiac said:


> You can make your own hand sanitizer easily with isopropyl alcohol and aloe vera gel


Don't shout that too loud else isopropyl alcohol and aloe vera gel will also be sold out everywhere!

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 2


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## Mollie (17/3/20)

It just show us now that people dont wash their hands and now all the sudden people wants to wash their hands yuck!

Sent from my ANE-LX1 using Tapatalk

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## Timwis (17/3/20)

zadiac said:


> This should not surprise you at all. This is SA after all. The crims will use ANY way they can to rob you.


Not a SA problem, coranavirus to criminals will be seen as a opportunity doesn't matter what country, it goes on! Also now with the internet i have my spam folder full of coronavirus related phishing emails, disgusting!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Timwis (17/3/20)

The vaper said:


> It just show us now that people dont wash their hands and now all the sudden people wants to wash their hands yuck!
> 
> Sent from my ANE-LX1 using Tapatalk


No it doesn't the sanitiser gels are for after you touch things like a shopping trolley for example or ATM as another example, extra to when we usually wash our hands!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mollie (17/3/20)

Timwis said:


> No it doesn't the sanitiser gels are for after you touch things like a shopping trolley for example or ATM as another example, extra to when we usually wash our hands!


You can use wet wipes as well and there are plenty of those on the shelves lol

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## Silver (17/3/20)

The question I have for those in the know:

Is it better to wash hands with a bar of soap? (eg Lux)
Or liquid soap - i.e. standard liquid soap you buy in the dispenser, where you press on the top to eject it.

What do you think?

Reactions: Like 3


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## Mollie (17/3/20)

Silver said:


> The question I have for those in the know:
> 
> Is it better to wash hands with a bar of soap? (eg Lux)
> Or liquid soap - i.e. standard liquid soap you buy in the dispenser, where you press on the top to eject it.
> ...


I would say the dispensers but don't really know the difference because i dont use the bar of soap never have 

Sent from my ANE-LX1 using Tapatalk

Reactions: Like 3


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## Mollie (17/3/20)

The vaper said:


> I would say the dispensers but don't really know the difference because i dont use the bar of soap never have
> 
> Sent from my ANE-LX1 using Tapatalk


https://oliverthom.com.au/blogs/looks/liquid-vs-bar-soap-which-is-better

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## Grand Guru (17/3/20)

Liquid soap dispensers and preferably the touchless ones are better. Avoid dryers and use paper towel instead.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Thanks 1 | Informative 1


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## JPDrag&Drop (17/3/20)

How about some good news?

-China has closed down its last coronavirus hospital. Not enough new cases to support them.

- Doctors in India have been successful in treating Coronavirus. Combination of drugs used: Lopinavir, Retonovir, Oseltamivir along with Chlorphenamine. They are going to suggest same medicine, globally.

- Researchers of the Erasmus Medical Center claim to have found an antibody against coronavirus.

- A 103-year-old Chinese grandmother has made a full recovery from COVID-19 after being treated for 6 days in Wuhan, China.

- Apple reopens all 42 china stores,

- Cleveland Clinic developed a COVID-19 test that gives results in hours, not days.

- Good news from South Korea, where the number of new cases is declining.

- Italy is hit hard, experts say, only because they have the oldest population in Europe.

- Scientists in Israel likely to announce the development of a coronavirus vaccine.

- 3 Maryland coronavirus patients fully recovered; able to return to everyday life.

- A network of Canadian scientists are making excellent progress in Covid-19 research.

- A San Diego biotech company is developing a Covid-19 vaccine in collaboration with Duke University and National University of Singapore.

- Tulsa County's first positive COVID-19 case has recovered. This individual has had two negative tests, which is the indicator of recovery.

- All 7 patients who were getting treated for at Safdarjung hospital in New Delhi have recovered.

- Plasma from newly recovered patients from Covid -19 can treat others infected by Covid-19.

So it's not all bad news. Let's care for each other and stay focused on safety of those most vulnerable.

Reactions: Like 7 | Winner 2


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## Dela Rey Steyn (17/3/20)

So relieved, Doc gave me the all clear:

Reactions: Winner 3 | Funny 11 | Can relate 1


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## Hooked (17/3/20)

*FULL LIST: Covid-19 testing sites in all provinces*
https://www.all4women.co.za/1972535...-list-covid-19-testing-sites-in-all-provinces
17 March 2020

According to Lancet Laboratories, doctors and patients are urged to contact the NICD directly on their hotline if they want testing to be done at NICD 082 883 9920. If Doctors want their patient to be tested at Lancet Laboratories, and there is any uncertainty that the patient meets clinical and epidemiological criteria, the Lancet virologist on call on 0113580800 may be contacted.

Below is a list of all testing sites in the country:

*LANCET LABORATORIES COVID-19 TESTING SITES

Gauteng*

Alberton Alberton IPS, 68 Voortrekker, Rd, New Redruth, Alberton, 1449
Mulbarton Netcare, Room 206 Mulbarton Medical Centre, 27 True N Rd, (Hospital), JHB, 2190
Vereeniging 46 Rhodes Ave, Vereeniging, 1939
Lenasia Lenmed in hospital, Lenesia South
Daxina Daxina Medical Centre
Krugersdorp Krugersdorp Lab, Outpatient Depot, 1 Boshoff Street, Krugersdorp, 1739
Soweto Soweto Healthcare Hub
Birchleigh Birchleigh depot, 7 Leo Street
Kempton Park Kempton square shopping centre, shop 61
Bedforview Leicester depot, suite no 8 Leicester Medical Mews, 7 Leicester Road, Bedfordview Germiston
Houghton Houghton Hotel Depot, 53 2nd Ave, Houghton Estate, Johannesburg, 2198, South Africa
Cheltondale 62 Orchard Rd, Cheltondale, Johannesburg, 2192, South Africa
Richmond (Auckland Park) Lancet Corner, Corner Stanley and Menton Rd, Richmond Auckland Park
Rosebank Rosebank Lab, 3rd Floor, 8 Sturdee Avenue, Rosebank
Morningside 173 Rivonia Road, Morningside, Sandton, South Africa Rochester Place Office Block A
Germiston 8 Parks Street, Bedfordview, Germiston

*Free State and Northern Cape*

Mediclinic Bloemfontein Room G07, Mediclinic Bloemfontein, Kellner St, Westdene, Bloemfontein, 9301
Kimberley 112 Mac Dougall St, El Toro Park, Kimberley, 8301
Welkom RH Matjhabeng, Power Road, Reitzpark, Welkom

*Limpopo*
Polokwane 44A Grobler street, Polokwane Central
Tzaneen 71 Wolksberg Road, Ivory Tusk Lodge
Thouyandou Corner Mpehephu & Mvusuludzo near Cash build
Phalaborwa Clinix Private Hospital, No 86 Grosvenor Street


*Western Cape*
Bellville 2 Heide Street, Bloemhof, Cape Town, South Africa
Brackenfell Brackenfell Medical Centre, Cnr Brackenfell & Old Paarl Road , Cape Town, South Africa
Cape Town CBD Cnr Longmarket & Parliament Street, Cape Town, South Africa
Century City Smartsurv House, Century City, Cape Town, 7441
Durbanville 15 Paul Kruger Street, Durbanville, Cape Town, South Africa
Kuils River Shop 9 De Kuilen Shopping Centre Carinus Street)
Bellville West 7c Solway Street, Bellville West A, Cape Town, South Africa
Pinelands 91 Jan Smuts Dr, Pinelands, Cape Town, 7405, South Africa
Rondebosch Rondebosch Medical Center, 95 Klipfontein Rd, Rondebosch, Cape Town, 7700, South Africa
Simonstown 1st Floor, Room 4 Harbour Bay Medical Centre
Stellenbosch Trumali House, Trumali Street, Harringtons Place, Stellenbosch, South Africa
Somerset West Arun Place Block 6 Unit F, Cherrywood Gardens, Sir Lowry’s Pass, South Africa
Stellenbosch Oewerpark Stellenbosch Oewerpark Suite 12A Rokewood Road, Die Boord, Stellenbosch, South Africa
*
Kwa-Zulu Natal*
Lenmed La Verna Private Hospital 1 Convent Rd, Ladysmith, 3370
Mediclinic Newcastle Private Hospital 78 Bird St, Newcastle Central, Newcastle, 2940
Life Empangeni Garden
Clinic 50 Biyela St, Empangeni Central, Empangeni, 3880
Busamed Gateway private Hospital Busamed Gateway private Hospital, 36-38 Aurora Dr, Umhlanga Rocks, Umhlanga, 4319
Berea 1st Floor, Mayet Medical Centre, 482 Randles Rd, Sydenham, Berea, 4091
Ahmed Al-Khadi private Hospital 490 Jan Smuts Hwy, Mayville, Durban, 4058
Life Chatsmed Private Hospital Suite 121- 201 West Wing Chatsmed Garden Hospital, 80 Woodhurst Dr, Chatsworth, 4092
JMH Isipingo private Hospital Suite 2 Grnd flr Medical Towers Isipingo Hospital, 162 Phila Ndwandwe Rd, Isipingo Rail, Isipingo, 4133
Port Shepstone 28 Bazley St, Port Shepstone, 4240
Pietermaritzburg Suite 205 Midlands Medical Centre, 162-166 Masukwana St, Pietermaritzburg, 3201
Hilton Hilton Gardens, Hilton, 3245
Life Mt Edgecombe Private Hospita Ste 1 Phoenix Medical Ctr, Redberry Rd, Rockford, Phoenix, 4068
Life Entabeni Private Hospital Suite 8 Level 3 West Wing Entabeni Hospital, 148 Mazisi Kunene Rd, Berea, 4001

*Rustenburg*
Rustenburg 1 Kok Street

*North West*
Potchefstroom Cachet Park Depot, Shop 24 Cnr Steve Biko & Meyer Street, Potchefstroom, 2531

Reactions: Informative 2


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## Hooked (17/3/20)

*How long do viruses live on surfaces: Plastic, stainless steel, fabric, and more*
https://www.businessinsider.co.za/how-long-do-viruses-live-on-surfaces
16 March 2020

The SARS-CoV-2 virus - responsible for the current coronavirus pandemic - can live on stainless steel surfaces for up to 72 hours, cardboard for up to 24 hours, and on copper for 4 hours and still be contagious.

Other coronaviruses can live on metal, plastic, and glass surfaces for four to five days, and could persist for up to nine days depending on temperature and humidity.

It's unclear how long viruses can live on fabric, but one study found that natural fabrics like wool and cotton are more likely to contain larger amounts of bacteria and fungi compared to silk and synthetic fabrics.

To properly disinfect surfaces make sure you're using alcohol-based cleaners that are at least 70% alcohol for hard surfaces and washing fabrics in water that's at least 30 degrees Celcius.

This article was medically reviewed by dr. Andres Romero, infection disease specialist.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Hooked (17/3/20)

Silver said:


> The question I have for those in the know:
> 
> Is it better to wash hands with a bar of soap? (eg Lux)
> Or liquid soap - i.e. standard liquid soap you buy in the dispenser, where you press on the top to eject it.
> ...



Logically a dispenser is better, because the soap in the dispenser is not contaminated. However, with a bar of soap (does anyone still use them?) the virus could simply be transferred from your hands to the soap.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Adephi (17/3/20)

Hooked said:


> *FULL LIST: Covid-19 testing sites in all provinces*
> https://www.all4women.co.za/1972535...-list-covid-19-testing-sites-in-all-provinces
> 17 March 2020
> 
> ...



Ampath and Pathcare also do the test. They got branches in all major private hospitals.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Hooked (17/3/20)

I wouldn't be too concerned about hand sanitisers to be used with shopping trolleys etc. Just getting the virus on your hands will not give you the virus - so long as you don't have a cut on your hands and you don't touch your face or eyes. The latter is the important thing. 

I have a box of latex gloves at home, which can (could?) be bought at any Clicks/Dischem and from now on I'll wear gloves when I go out. 

As far as masks are concerned, I've heard that they're not effective. Who knows? If you've got one, wear it. It will make you feel better as well as those around you.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Hooked (17/3/20)

*How long do viruses live on surfaces: Plastic, stainless steel, fabric, and more*
https://www.businessinsider.co.za/how-long-do-viruses-live-on-surfaces
16 March 2020

The SARS-CoV-2 virus - responsible for the current coronavirus pandemic - can live on stainless steel surfaces for up to 72 hours, cardboard for up to 24 hours, and on copper for 4 hours and still be contagious.

Other coronaviruses can live on metal, plastic, and glass surfaces for four to five days, and could persist for up to nine days depending on temperature and humidity.

It's unclear how long viruses can live on fabric, but one study found that natural fabrics like wool and cotton are more likely to contain larger amounts of bacteria and fungi compared to silk and synthetic fabrics.

To properly disinfect surfaces make sure you're using alcohol-based cleaners that are at least 70% alcohol for hard surfaces and washing fabrics in water that's at least 30 degrees Celcius.

This article was medically reviewed by dr. Andres Romero, infection disease specialist.

But what happens to the viruses that make their way onto your clothes, and doorknobs? Here's what you should know about how long viruses can live on various surfaces.

Lifespan depends on the virus and the surface
In light of the novel coronavirus, researchers are looking at how SARS-CoV-2 and other coronaviruses behave on surfaces.

A recent study from scientists at a federal laboratory reported that SARS-CoV-2- the virus causing the current coronavirus pandemic - can live on plastic and stainless steel surfaces for up to 72 hours, on cardboard for up to 24 hours, and on copper for 4 hours. This was how long the virus could survive in large enough amounts to be transmissible, according to the researchers.

Another 2020 study published in the Journal of Hospital Infection analyzed 22 studies on other SARS and MERS coronaviruses. Researchers found that, on average, the viruses persisted on metal, plastic, and glass surfaces at room temperature for four to five days, and could persist for up to nine days depending on temperature and humidity.

Therefore, how long harmful germs live on different surfaces is "very specific to the pathogen, environmental factors like humidity, and also what surface it's on," says Todd Nega, MD, an infectious disease specialist at NorthShore University HealthSystem.

With fabrics, it's unclear how long viruses can last. But generally, they tend to last for a shorter amount of time on fabric compared to hard surfaces like stainless steel, according to the Mayo Clinic. It may also depend on what material the fabric is made from.

For a 2015 study in the Polish journal Medycyna Pracy, researchers looked at fabrics in industrial facilities, stables, homes, and a zoo. They didn't study viruses but they did see a correlation between how much fungi and bacteria contaminated the fabric depending on its material. They reported that smoother fibers - synthetic, semi-synthetic, and silk fibers - showed less microbial contamination than natural fibers like wool, hemp, or cotton.

This matters because you come in contact with fabric throughout your day. There are the clothes you wear, the towel you dry off with after a shower, the sheets you sleep on. "This is why we're very careful with contact isolation in hospital," Nega says. "In healthcare, we look at not contaminating things versus decontaminating them."

As an extra precaution, some experts recommend changing into clean clothes when you get home if you've been in contact with large groups of people at work throughout the day.

*How to clean hard surfaces*
For hard surfaces like tabletops, doorknobs, countertops, sinks, and glass, the CDC recommends using alcohol-based disinfecting wipes or solutions that are at least 70% alcohol, diluted bleach solutions, or other disinfecting products registered by the US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA).

First, make sure to protect your skin by wearing gloves. And then check that you're using enough of the cleaning solution to properly disinfect the surface.

For example, if you're using disinfecting wipes, there should be enough solution on the wipe to leave the surface visibly wet for at least four minutes while air-drying. If it's not visibly wet for four minutes, it could mean you've been overly ambitious and cleaned too much surface area with the wipe already.

Here's a complete list of EPA-registered disinfectants and also a list of disinfectants the EPA specifically recommends for disinfecting surfaces against SARS-CoV-2_._

*How to clean fabrics*
One of the best things you can do to reduce your exposure to viruses, and other germs, is to wash your clothes and other fabrics regularly. Washing clothes in water of at least 30 degrees Celcius "significantly decreases, but does not eliminate, the bacterial burden," according to a study published in 2020 in the Journal of Small Animal Practice that examined bacteria on clinicians' scrubs.

To further sanitise fabrics, add bleach or colour-safe bleach diluted with water. But first check your fabric's care instructions to make sure you're using it correctly. Be careful not to over-fill the washing machine. This gives the clothes room to vigorously stir in the disinfecting, soapy water, according to the American Chemistry Council's Water Quality and Health Council.

Running clothes through a drying cycle is key to eliminating germs, too. The high-heat setting is most effective, but again - check the specific instructions on your fabric to avoid damaging the fabric. You can also hang clothes to dry outside in direct sunlight. According to one study, the sun's ultraviolet light has disinfecting properties that kills certain types of bacteria.

If someone in your home has been sick, make sure to sanitise your laundry basket or hamper, as well as the washing machine itself. Check your specific washer for instructions or a clean-out cycle. And after all that cleaning - don't forget to wash your own hands, too.

Reactions: Informative 3


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## Christos (17/3/20)

Silver said:


> The question I have for those in the know:
> 
> Is it better to wash hands with a bar of soap? (eg Lux)
> Or liquid soap - i.e. standard liquid soap you buy in the dispenser, where you press on the top to eject it.
> ...


Soap is always first prize.

I hate hand sanitizers as much as I hate having eliquid on my hands or on a mod.

I personally dont see how hand sanitizer can help unless people are drinking/vaping it which I would not advise 

I am guilty of panic buying.
I ordered a case of whiskey....

Reactions: Like 5 | Winner 2


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## Grand Guru (17/3/20)

JPDrag&Drop said:


> How about some good news?
> 
> -China has closed down its last coronavirus hospital. Not enough new cases to support them.
> 
> ...


All that is good. Now let’s be realistic:
The mortality rate is 3% which means that 97% of the 160k who currently have it went/will go home healthy and sound.
The mortality rate is around 15% for the above 70 year old if they have cardiovascular, respiratory conditions or diabetes which means that 85% will also go home safely.
Do not expect a vaccine to hit the pharmacy shelves before 18months
ARVs have been tested with a relatively good success but won’t work all the time and on all patients.
The plasma story is a good movie ending but not realistic neither practical and it’s way too expensive.

Key message: protect your elderly by social distancing and barrier measures.

Reactions: Like 3 | Winner 1


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## alex1501 (17/3/20)

Silver said:


> The question I have for those in the know:
> 
> Is it better to wash hands with a bar of soap? (eg Lux)
> Or liquid soap - i.e. standard liquid soap you buy in the dispenser, where you press on the top to eject it.
> ...



Dettol soap (liquid and bar) should be fairly effective against a wide variety of microorganisms. Lux, Palmolive... don't have same additives (they are more skin care oriented).

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Winner 1 | Thanks 1 | Informative 1


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## Silver (17/3/20)

alex1501 said:


> Dettol soap (liquid and bar) should be fairly effective against a wide variety of microorganisms. Lux, Palmolive... don't have same additives (they are more skin care oriented).



Thanks for that @alex1501 
Didnt think of that aspect of the Lux and Palmolive perhaps not being as strong as a Dettol etc.

My wife has this liquid soap dispenser - but its one of those fancy ones for the skin etc etc. But it doesnt lather nicely.

I use a Lux soap bar - I like it because it lathers very nicely and I prefer the bar versus the dispenser because I just find it easier to use and work with. Maybe I am just used to it.

But after the comments in this thread I am going to go hunting for a dispenser of Dettol liquid soap - if i can find any.



If not, I will just use JIK - lol
No just joking...

Reactions: Like 4 | Winner 1


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## alex1501 (17/3/20)

Silver said:


> If not, I will just use JIK - lol
> No just joking...



Diluted bleach is great surface and even hands sanitizer (better than plain alcochol). Surgical spirit is even better for skin, but a bit pricey for surfaces.

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 1


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## Grand Guru (17/3/20)

alex1501 said:


> Diluted bleach is great surface and even hands sanitizer (better than plain alcochol). Surgical spirit is even better for skin, but a bit pricey for surfaces.


I would be very cautious with bleach... the skin is an excellent barrier and you wouldn’t want to damage it.

Reactions: Like 4


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## alex1501 (17/3/20)

Grand Guru said:


> I would be very cautious with bleach... the skin is an excellent barrier and you wouldn’t want to damage it.


Sure, but you need only a tablespoon of regular household bleach per liter of water.

Reactions: Like 3 | Informative 1


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## Hooked (17/3/20)

*Email Notification from TCG:*

"... Please see the attached and below that was sent out by senior management. 
In the mean time we have managed to do the following :

Order in 2000lt of sanitiser for all our staff .
Order in 5000 masks for our staff
Contract a company to sanitise our depots on a weekly basis.

This will be distributed no later than Thursday 19th March 2020.

*If you so wish on delivery you are welcome to request that the driver
places the delivery & waybill at your door and steps back 2metres allowing
you to sign the waybill in full
with your own pen and take your delivery inside and close the door with
the signed waybill outside which the driver will retrieve. [My highlights]*

To All

It is up to each and everyone of us to ensure that our working environment
is safe for all employee’s , family members and customers.

We as a company are trying to source hand sanitiser as well as
disinfectant/sanitising spray. The depots will also be sourcing companies
to come and sanitise the
premises by means of a spray / fogging procedure. The Kiosks are to source
sanitising spray cans to spray Kiosks twice a week ..."

Reactions: Like 3


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## ARYANTO (17/3/20)

ARYANTO said:


> Rob , please move my post in here , created a new thread , missed your post. Sorry.


don't know what's there to dislike ? @Matuka

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Adephi (17/3/20)

Silver said:


> Thanks for that @alex1501
> Didnt think of that aspect of the Lux and Palmolive perhaps not being as strong as a Dettol etc.
> 
> My wife has this liquid soap dispenser - but its one of those fancy ones for the skin etc etc. But it doesnt lather nicely.
> ...



The Lux soap bar is fine. Obviously you will get products thats better for various reasons as with any product.

The antibacterial soaps and sanitisers kill most bacteria. Even the good ones. On your skin you get various bacteria especially a Staphylococcus strain that thrives just underneath the epidermis of your skin. These outcompete other bacteria that could potentially cause disease. By washing with antibacterial soap or sanitiser you get rid of the good guys and the bad guys can take over.

With regards to viruses the change in pH from the soap will kill it off immediately. So normal soap is just fine. Even diluted dishwashing liquid will work.

Don't use Dove. Thats k@k.

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## Hooked (17/3/20)

Christos said:


> Soap is always first prize.
> 
> I hate hand sanitizers as much as I hate having eliquid on my hands or on a mod.
> 
> ...



@Christos You've got the wrong end of the stick - probably because of the whiskey. Silver didn't mention hand sanitizers. The question was a bar of soap vs liquid soap in a dispenser.


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## Hooked (17/3/20)

The problem with soap and sanitizers is that they are anti-bacterial - but Corona is a virus. An anti-bacterial won't have an effect on a virus. One needs an anti-viral something.

Just by the way, ordinary white vinegar is an anti-bacterial. I use it to clean my kitchen counters.

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## Adephi (17/3/20)

Hooked said:


> The problem with soap and sanitizers is that they are anti-bacterial - but Corona is a virus. An anti-bacterial won't have an effect on a virus. One needs an anti-viral something.
> 
> Just by the way, ordinary white vinegar is an anti-bacterial. I use it to clean my kitchen counters.



The alcohol in the sanitisers do kill viruses.

Thats probably why @Christos bought all the whipskey hey?

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Funny 3


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## Timwis (17/3/20)

Dela Rey Steyn said:


> So relieved, Doc gave me the all clear:
> View attachment 192383


Not surprised the COVID-19 would of been off it's face!

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## Adephi (17/3/20)

Here is the designated sites for Ampath.

Just please note you need a referral letter from your doctor.

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 1 | Informative 1


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## Grand Guru (17/3/20)

You’re mixing up antibiotics and antibacterial soap @Hooked

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## Christos (17/3/20)

Hooked said:


> @Christos You've got the wrong end of the stick - probably because of the whiskey. Silver didn't mention hand sanitizers. The question was a bar of soap vs liquid soap in a dispenser.


My bad. All the whiskey doesn't fit so I had to make a plan

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## Christos (17/3/20)

Adephi said:


> The alcohol in the sanitisers do kill viruses.
> 
> Thats probably why @Christos bought all the whipskey hey?


I was running low on mood enhancers...

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## Resistance (17/3/20)

JPDrag&Drop said:


> Hi all
> 
> just would like to say. Mass buying is silly don’t over buy, think of the next person. Some of us can, but there are people that work on weekly income, those are the people that will suffer if we go out and buy everything.
> Remember this is the time as a country we need to look after each other. As a suggestion, double up on your groceries etc. buying 40 bails of toilet paper is not going to save you.
> ...



Wise words being spoken and much appreciated. 
You never know if the stock you buy is contaminated so don't buy too much.
(Packaging for that matter)

Reactions: Like 2


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## Resistance (17/3/20)

Grand Guru said:


> Liquid soap dispensers and preferably the touchless ones are better. Avoid dryers and use paper towel instead.


True, they found more germs on a hand dryers and in close proximity to it when tested on MythBusters.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1


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## Adephi (18/3/20)

And interesting read about the testing process.



https://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/...t-test-test-is-easier-said-than-done-20200318

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 5


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## Hooked (18/3/20)

*Ship called ‘Corona’ now in quarantine in Cape Town with suspected Covid-19 infection*
https://www.all4women.co.za/1973525...n-cape-town-with-suspected-covid-19-infection
18 March 2020

_[My comment: So ships can also get the virus?]_

"... two vessels in the Port of Cape Town were being held off port limits after a crew member onboard one of the vessels began to exhibit symptoms of Covid-19 ...

It was later established he had been on a flight with a fellow crew member and six passengers who went on to board a cruise vessel at the port, said spokesperson Ayanda Mantshongo.

This is the first suspected case of Covid-19 in a South African seaport. The two crew members had flown into the country from Istanbul, Turkey on 9 March. Only one of the two was showing signs of being ill, but both were placed into isolation onboard the general cargo vessel, MV Corona.

MV Corona left the Port of Cape Town on Wednesday. On Friday the master of the vessel contacted the Maritime Rescue Coordination Centre (MRCC) and the Port Health unit of the National Department of Health, confirming one crew member was exhibiting symptoms and requesting that the vessel return to the Port of Cape Town for evacuation. Permission was granted by both authorities.

“Upon arrival on Monday, 16 March 2020, the vessel waited off port limits. MRCC, Port Health and the Harbour Master of the Port of Cape Town have coordinated efforts to evacuate both crew members by arranging with airforce helicopters for the suspected crew member to be transported to hospital.

“Six passengers on board the Italian flagged MV AidAmira passenger vessel had been on the same flight as the crew members of the MV Corona. However, according to the Master and the Doctor onboard the passenger liner, the six have shown no symptoms of the virus but are in isolation and being monitored continuously,” said Mantshongo.

Reactions: Informative 4


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## ARYANTO (18/3/20)

Just learned a new word : *Social Distancing - *we love to braai and party , what now ??

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 2


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## Grand Guru (18/3/20)

ARYANTO said:


> Just learned a new word : *Social Distancing - *we love to braai and party , what now ??


Braai and party together but each one alone!

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2


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## Hooked (18/3/20)

Sir Vape is doing the following:

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## Resistance (18/3/20)

ARYANTO said:


> Just learned a new word : *Social Distancing - *we love to braai and party , what now ??





Grand Guru said:


> Braai and party together but each one alone!








We could always follow the trend

Reactions: Agree 2 | Funny 2


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## Timwis (18/3/20)

Grand Guru said:


> Braai and party together but each one alone!


Yeah, we are a sporting nation and every football, rugby, cricket match etc, even the Grand national (in the past even IRA Bombs have only ever managed to postpone that for two days) cancelled. No pubs, clubs, restaurants even Macdonalds has closed seating areas so take away's only. People told by government not to go to work (will be exceptions for certain jobs) and all schools and colleges to close on Friday until further notice. Went to town 8.00am because needed food etc (it was packed as if it was Christmas Eve), only place milk and bread was available was Asda who have rationed everyone to only one milk and two loaves of bread, strict restrictions on other items and no one can buy more than 3 of any item. The one thing Asda didn't have was toilet roll and as we are on our last roll i had to go searching and guess what, we are still on our last roll!

On my search for toilet roll i noticed mainly empty shelves everywhere and security firms hired to man the doors (these are shops that i have never seen have security before) some items that have been panic bought so are unavailable make no sense such as bubble bath and shampoo, next step will be the country going into complete quarantine like Italy!


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## Adephi (18/3/20)



Reactions: Winner 4 | Funny 4


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## Timwis (18/3/20)

Adephi said:


> View attachment 192461


Or somewhere further down!

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## Dela Rey Steyn (19/3/20)

I still don't get the hoarding off the toilet paper. Nowhere, not once have I read that the Covid-19 virus gives you the 'runs'? Or are people just S@#$%ting themselves for no reason?

Reactions: Agree 7 | Funny 1


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## Timwis (19/3/20)

Dela Rey Steyn said:


> I still don't get the hoarding off the toilet paper. Nowhere, not once have I read that the Covid-19 virus gives you the 'runs'? Or are people just S@#$%ting themselves for no reason?


People are in fear that shops will be forced to close for an extended period of time and one thing you don't want to run out of is toilet roll. it's stupidity set in by panic because food shops etc will not close else there would be deaths from starvation, people have to eat and have good hygiene coronavirus or not!

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## Adephi (19/3/20)

Dela Rey Steyn said:


> I still don't get the hoarding off the toilet paper. Nowhere, not once have I read that the Covid-19 virus gives you the 'runs'? Or are people just S@#$%ting themselves for no reason?



I don't know why. There are many psychological studies and explanations on why toilet paper gets hoarded but none really makes sense.

It reminds me of '92/'93 when our country went through changes because "Die Swart Gevaar" was coming. Everybody had a box of baked beans in the house. Toilet paper wasn't an issue back then because you had loads of newspaper.

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## Dela Rey Steyn (19/3/20)

Adephi said:


> I don't know why. There are many psychological studies and explanations on why toilet paper gets hoarded but none really makes sense.
> 
> It reminds me of '92/'93 when our country went through chances because "Die Swart Gevaar" was coming. Everybody had a box of baked beans in the house. Toilet paper wasn't an issue back then because you had loads of newspaper.



I remember those days. We were staying smack dab right in the middle of Venda at that stage. My Father was the commander of Manenu Battalion. We did not hoard a single thing. Our family went on with life as if nothing changed. Our relatives in the rest of SA went ape and stockpiled canned foods like it was going out of fashion. I think we still used some of those canned good on a camping trip with them in 95-96, not 100% sure of the year, but it was a big family joke that they finally used the last of the "Nag van die lang messe" supply

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## Chris du Toit (19/3/20)

The whole toilet paper thing started in Australia, they produce their own toilet paper and do not import. Due to the massive bush fires they had there recently and Corona hitting just after that some people felt that there would be a shortage of Bog roll (probably fake news spread through social media) and it escalated from there. 

So Herd mentality kicks in and everyone follow suite, it is the nature of the beast unfortunately. When the paw paw hits the fan we look to others for guidance, some just look in the wrong places lol.

Reactions: Like 4 | Funny 1 | Useful 1


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## Room Fogger (19/3/20)

Having grown up between two farms, one 45 km from nearest town, the other about 130 km, we have for as long as I have a memory always bought enough for at least a month or two, for incase, as my dad worked away from home. Specials were snapped up for later use, and with two places we always had something at both places.

Only extra I bought so far was toilet paper, 2 packs, more so for the fact that we have a family allergy problem and winter is coming. Hand sanitizer has always been in the cars for Incase you can’t wash hands, used to be a wet rag in a bank baggie years ago. I think people panic because a lot buy per day or per week, and to then see empty shelves the panic kicks into overdrive. I did however buy extra chicken, I.e. Pretoria braai vegetables, about two weeks ago, nice special!

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## alex1501 (19/3/20)

Plan B for those who miss the TP rush 2020:



If you are impatient, or you think he talks to much, skip to: 2:54

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## Timwis (19/3/20)

Adephi said:


> I don't know why. There are many psychological studies and explanations on why toilet paper gets hoarded but none really makes sense.
> 
> It reminds me of '92/'93 when our country went through chances because "Die Swart Gevaar" was coming. Everybody had a box of baked beans in the house. Toilet paper wasn't an issue back then because you had loads of newspaper.


In the UK newspapers use to be full of chips (useful then (until it was considered a health risk due to the print)) now they are just full of crap and the print is a real risk to health!

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## ARYANTO (19/3/20)

*Microsoft launches free coronavirus tracking website*
https://mybroadband.co.za/news/inte...unches-free-coronavirus-tracking-website.html
If you want to see where and how many affected/infected.

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## ARYANTO (19/3/20)

alex1501 said:


> Plan B for those who miss the TP rush 2020:
> 
> 
> 
> If you are impatient, or you think he talks to much, skip to: 2:54



1st thing that jumps to mind...compost

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## Alex (19/3/20)



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## Resistance (19/3/20)

Adephi said:


> I don't know why. There are many psychological studies and explanations on why toilet paper gets hoarded but none really makes sense.
> 
> It reminds me of '92/'93 when our country went through changes because "Die Swart Gevaar" was coming. Everybody had a box of baked beans in the house. Toilet paper wasn't an issue back then because you had loads of newspaper.


And phone books. You see them now only on special occasions.
But I can live without paper without water is an issue.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


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## Hooked (19/3/20)

Room Fogger said:


> Having grown up between two farms, one 45 km from nearest town, the other about 130 km, we have for as long as I have a memory always bought enough for at least a month or two, for incase, as my dad worked away from home. Specials were snapped up for later use, and with two places we always had something at both places.
> 
> Only extra I bought so far was toilet paper, 2 packs, more so for the fact that we have a family allergy problem and winter is coming. Hand sanitizer has always been in the cars for Incase you can’t wash hands, used to be a wet rag in a bank baggie years ago. I think people panic because a lot buy per day or per week, and to then see empty shelves the panic kicks into overdrive. I did however buy extra chicken, I.e. Pretoria braai vegetables, about two weeks ago, nice special!



Chicken is Pretoria braai veggies?  Actually, with prices being what they are these days, I think more and more people are turning to chicken.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Adephi (19/3/20)

Alex said:


>





https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/19/politics/trump-fda-anti-viral-treatments-coronavirus/index.html

Trump just announced they are fast-tracking antimalarial meds to be handed out with a prescription.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Hooked (19/3/20)

Timwis said:


> In the UK newspapers use to be full of chips (useful then (until it was considered a health risk due to the print)) now they are just full of crap and the print is a real risk to health!



We used to get chips in newspaper here too, in the good 'ol days - and how yummy that was!!

Reactions: Like 3


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## Hooked (19/3/20)

Here's something very interesting, shared by someone on FB. I've copied the entire post.

"This is a very cogent post on social distancing by a friend who has taken what appear to be Draconian steps to isolate himself and his family, but when you read his data, it's clear that it is a premptively positive step.

Please read if you are concerned about COVID19
This is a long post addressing two underlying issues with the current response to the pandemic that leave me concerned. It’s the longest post I’ve ever written.

For those of you not taking action, or believing the pandemic to be “over hyped”, you can make fun of me as much as you want now or when this is over. You can make me the subject of memes and post it everywhere. I will pose for the picture. I am not trying to convince you, but I do feel compelled to share information that I deem critical to all of us, which is why I am posting this at all.

WHY YOU SHOULD TAKE 5 MINUTES TO READ AND CONSIDER THE INFORMATION I AM SHARING:

For those of you who don’t know me well, I am analytical and metered. I don’t freak out nor do I respond emotionally. I also don’t post a bunch of bullshit or political or controversial stuff on Facebook. I founded and am CEO of a successful software company that provides SaaS based data, analytics, and dashboards to recruiting departments at companies we all know. As you would expect, I am data driven and fact based. Before founding my company I held executive roles leading very large recruiting teams at some of the world's fastest growing companies such as Starbucks and Google. At Google I was fortunate enough to report to Sheryl Sandberg before she took the Facebook COO role. I was a Chemical Engineering major in college and have a business degree from a top undergraduate business school. I am not one for hyperbole or histrionics. My bullshit factor is close to zero.

I share all this personal information only to help solidify that this post may be worth reading and sharing with others. I would encourage you to forward or share this post at your discretion. Many people do not understand what is happening with the pandemic to the degree required which is why I took the time to write this and share this on Facebook.

Now that I've gotten the introduction out of the way, here are two issues I want to bring to everyone’s attention.

ISSUE ONE: SOCIAL NORMS ARE POWERFUL MOTIVATORS AND GETTING IN THE WAY OF PEOPLE TAKING THE RIGHT STEPS IN RESPONSE TO THE PANDEMIC:

One of the current problems with addressing the pandemic is the social pressures of taking action today. It's awkward, and feels like an over-reaction. The reason it feels like an overreaction is that most people OVERWEIGHT the currently reported cases and inherently UNDERWEIGHT the mathematics of how the virus is spreading and what will happen in about 30 days time. This is because our brains tend to think linearly as opposed to logarithmically. It’s the same reason many people don’t save for retirement or understand compound interest.

To create a new social norm, human beings like to see behavior modeled. This serves as a signal that says, “oh, someone else is doing it so I should do it also.”

SO HERE IS A SOCIAL BENCHMARK FOR REFERENCE - THIS IS WHAT I’VE DONE FOR MY FAMILY TO DATE:

I have already isolated my family. We have canceled EVERYTHING. We have canceled previously scheduled doctor visits. Social get togethers. Normal routine meetings. Everything has been canceled. It's difficult and socially awkward. Some of you think I’m crazy, but I’m doing it not because I am afraid, but because I am good at math (more on that in part 2). I had to have my 16 year old daughter quit her job coaching junior gymnasts at the local gym, with one day’s notice and also tell my kids they can't attend youth group at church. Both of those were tough discussions. I told a very close friend he shouldn’t stay at my house this weekend even though he was planning to and had booked his flight from the Bay Area. I canceled another dear friend’s visit for later this month to go snowboarding on Mt Bachelor.

We are not eating out. Our kids are already doing online school so we don’t have to make changes there. I would not send my kids to school even if they were in public or private school. We have eliminated all non-essential contact with other people. We will only venture out to grocery shop when required. We will still go outside to parks, go mountain biking, hiking, and recreate to keep ourselves sane and do other things as a family, just not with other people. We have stocked up on food and have a supply for ~2 months. We have stocked up on other goods that if depleted would create hardship, like medicines and feminine hygiene products. We have planned for shortages of essential items.

THE REASON I HAVE CHOSEN THIS ROUTE FOR MY FAMILY IS MULTI FACETED:

1. Although my family is considered low risk (I’m 49 in good health, Angi is 46 and in good health, and our kids are 14 and 16), we must assume that the healthcare system cannot help us, because the hospitals will become overwhelmed very quickly. Most American hospitals will become overwhelmed in approximately 30 days unless something changes. More on this in part 2 below. So although we are in great health and unlikely to become gravely ill, the risk is greater if you do not have access to the medical care that you need. This is something for everyone to consider. As a society we are accustomed to having access to the best medical care available. Our medical system will be overwhelmed unless we practice social distancing at scale. That said, the medical teams in Italy are seeing an alarming number of cases from people in their 40s and 50s.

2. It’s not a matter of if social distancing will take place, it’s a matter of when. This is because social distancing is the only way to stop the virus today. As I will explain in part 2 below, starting now is FAR more effective than starting even 2 days from now or tomorrow. This has been proven by Italy and China (and soon to be France and other European countries who have been slow to respond.). Wuhan went on lockdown after roughly 400 cases were identified (and they had access to testing that America has systematically failed to do well to date). The US already has more than 4 times this number of known infected cases as Wuhan did when it was shut down, and our citizens are far more mobile and therefore spreading the virus more broadly when compared to Wuhan. Yet our response is tepid at best.

If hand washing and “being smart” were sufficient Italy would not be in crisis. So I pray the draconian measures are coming from our government, because they are required to stop the spread of the virus. It’s better to start sooner than later as the cost is actually far greater if we wait. I pray they close all schools and non-essential services the way that Italy and China have done.

3. Spreading the virus puts those in the high-risk category at much greater risk. This is the moral argument. It’s a strong argument because there are only two ways, as of today, that the virus can be stopped: let it run its course and infect 100s of millions of people, or social distancing. There is no other way today. If you don’t practice social distancing, people downstream from you that you transmit the virus to will die, and many will suffer.

4. The risk of infection is increasing exponentially, because the quantity of infected people, most who will not show symptoms, is doubling every three days. So the longer you wait to self-isolate, the greater the chance of you or someone you love becoming infected and then you infecting others because more of the population is becoming infected. There are twice as many infected people today as there was on Tuesday.

5. The virus is already in your town. It’s everywhere. Cases are typically only discovered when someone gets sick enough to seek medical attention. This is important as it typically takes ~5 days to START showing ANY symptoms. Here’s the math: For every known case there are approximately 50 unknown cases. This is because if I become sick, I infect several people today, and they infect a few people each tomorrow (as do I), and the total count of infected people doubles every 3 days until I get so sick I get hospitalized or get tested and become a “known case”. But in the time it takes me to figure out I am sick 50 others downline from me now have the virus. So every third day the infection rate doubles until I get so sick that I realize I have the virus an am hospitalized or otherwise tested. Harvard and Massachusetts General Hospital estimate that there are 50x more infections than known infections as reported (citation below). The implication of this is that the virus is already “everywhere” and spreading regardless if your city has zero, few or many reported cases. So instead of the 1573 reported known cases today there are likely 78,650 cases, at least, in the United States. Which will double to 157,300 by this Sunday. And this will double to 314,600 cases by this coming Wednesday. So in less than 1 week the number of total infected in the United States will quadruple. This is the nature of exponential math. It’s actually unfortunate that we are publishing the figures for known cases as it diverts attention away from more important numbers (like the range of estimated actual cases).

6. Some people cannot, or will not, practice social distancing for a variety of reasons and will continue to spread the virus to many people. So everyone else must start today.

The reasons above are why I have begun to practice social distancing. It’s not easy. But you should do it too.

The hospitals will be at capacity and there are not enough ventilators. You will hear a lot about this issue in the coming few weeks... the shortage of ventilators.

ISSUE TWO: MANY PEOPLE ARE FOCUSED ON THE WRONG NUMBERS:

Yes, the virus only kills a small percentage of those afflicted. Yes, the flu kills 10s of thousands of people annually. Yes, 80% of people will experience lightweight symptoms with COVID19. Yes the mortality rate of COVID19 is relatively low (1-2%). All of this true, but is immaterial. They are the wrong numbers to focus on...

The nature of exponential math is that the infection rates start slowly, and then goes off like a bomb and overwhelms the hospitals. You will understand this math clearly in the next section if you do the short math exercise. Evergreen hospital in Seattle is already in triage. I have heard credible reports from people on the ground that they are already becoming overwhelmed. And the bomb won't really go off for a few more days. Probably by Wednesday, March 18th (next week). In just a few days from now we will hear grave reports from Seattle hospitals.

You should assume the virus is everywhere at this point, even if you have no confirmed cases in your area.

YOU SHOULD DO THIS SIMPLE 2 MINUTE MATH EXERCISE (NO REALLY TAKE TWO MINUTES AND DO IT):

To further understand exponential growth, take the number of confirmed cases in your area and multiply by 10 (or 50 if you believe Harvard and Massachusetts General estimations) to account for the cases that are not yet confirmed. If you have no confirmed cases choose a small number. I’d suggest 10 cases in your city, if no cases are yet reported. But you can use whatever number you like. This number of infected people doubles every ~3 days as the infection spreads. So literally take your number, and multiply by 2. Then do it again. Then do it again. Then do it again. Do this multiplication exercise 10 times in total.

2 x 2 x 2 x 2 x 2 x 2 x 2 x 2 x 2 x 2 x (the number of estimated infections in your city today (not just the reported cases)).

This result is the estimate for the actual cases in your area 30 days from now. The math will take 30 seconds to complete with a calculator and it’s worth doing the math to see how it grows. This end number is the number of cases in your city 30 days from today if a large percentage of the population do not practice social distancing.

2 to the 10th power is 1024. When something doubles 10 times, it's the same as multiplying by 1024. The infection rate of the virus doubles every 3 days. In thirty days there will be 1,024 times the number of infected people in your area as there is today if your community does not immediately put social distancing into practice. One thousand and twenty four times as many infected people as there is today, in just 30 days.

Next, divide the final number (the scary big one) you just calculated by the current population of your city and you will be able to get the percentage of people THAT YOU KNOW PERSONALLY who will be infected 30 days from now.

Next take 15% (multiply by 0.15) of that final 30 day number of total infected people. This will provide an estimate of the serious cases which will require acute medical care, and compare it to the number of beds and ventilators available at your local hospital. Google the "number of beds" and the name of your local hospital now. It takes 2 seconds and the number of beds is easy to find. 65% of beds are already occupied by patients unrelated to the coronavirus. St Charles in Bend, Oregon where I live, has 226 beds and the town is roughly 100,000 people. Most hospitals have on average, 40 or fewer ventilators.

These numbers you just calculated are the problem: Too many patients, not enough beds, and a serious shortage of ventilators (the biggest problem) if we don't immediately begint social distancing. More on this biggest problem related to the insufficient quantity of ventilators is below.

COUNTRIES THAT GET OVERWHELMED WILL HAVE A MUCH GREATER MORTALITY RATE BECAUSE THEY WON’T BE ABLE TO ADEQUATELY CARE FOR THE SICK.

And by sick I mean not just coronavirus patients. Your son or daughter that needs acute care surgery this May for his badly broken leg will be attended to by an orthopedic doctor that has been working at maximum capacity and working 18 hour shifts for 7 days every week for 6 weeks because it was required to care for all the coronavirus patients at her hospital. Or the orthopedic surgeon will be sick with the virus and your son or daughter will be operated on by a non-expert or a member of the National Guard. Your elderly Mom that has diabetes and goes into acute distress next month may not receive ANY care because the doctors are consumed and have to prioritize patients based on triage handbooks filled with success rate probabilities. Your sibling’s family that are all injured in a terrible car crash in June will have diminished care. If one of them needs a ventilator there will be none available because all of them will be in use by critical coronavirus patients. Your young friend with cancer and a compromised immune system from treatment will succumb even though the cancer was curable and the treatment was working, because their body was too fragile to combat the coronavirus due to the chemotherapy and they couldn't receive the customized, acute care required due to the hospital being overwhelmed. All of the above is currently happening in Italy, who had the same number of infections we have today just 2 weeks ago. You must start today.

The count of actual virus infections doubles every ~3 days. The news and government agencies are lagging in their response. So we hear that the US only has 1573 cases today (3/12/20), ( see https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/) and it doesn't seem like a lot. It would be better to report the estimated actual cases, since reported cases don’t tell us much. However, we know from China that the actual number of cases are at least an order of magnitude greater than the reported cases, because people get infected and do not display symptoms. In math, an "order of magnitude" means ten times difference, or put another way, a factor of 10. 100 is 10 times greater than 10, so it's an order of magnitude greater.

Harvard Medical School / Massachusetts General Hospital just released their estimate (recording is here: https://externalmediasite.partners.org/…/53a4003de5ab4b4da5…) that the actual cases are 50x greater than the reported cases. So we likely have 75,000 cases in the United States already. The number of reported cases is not that important.

But let’s assume the current number of cases is only 10,000 ACTUAL cases in the United States just to be conservative and model out what will happen:

If we don’t stop the virus from spreading, in 30 days we will have 2 to the 10th power more cases of infected people because the infection count doubles every 3 days (the virus doubles every 3 days and there are 10, 3 day periods in 30 days).

The math: 2 to the 10th power means 1,024 times as many cases as we have today (2 times 2 repeated 10 times).

This number is a catastrophically big problem for all of us: We will have 10 million+ actual cases (10,000 actual cases today x 1,024) in the United States in just 30 days’ time if we continue without extreme social distancing. 10 million people with the virus. And it will keep doubling every 3 days unless we practice social distancing.

15% of cases require significant medical attention, which means that 1.5 million people will require significant medical attention if 10 million people get infected (15% of 10 Million total infections = 1.5 million people requiring hospitalization).

1.5 million hospitalizations is about 50% more than we have beds for at hospitals in the United States. And 65% of all beds are already occupied in our hospitals. But patients with the virus need ICU beds, not just any old hospital bed. Only about 10% of hospital beds are considered intensive care. So we will have a huge bed shortage, but that is not the biggest problem, as we can erect temporary ICU shelters and bring in more temporary beds, as Italy has already done, and California and Washington hospitals have already done. Evergreen Hospital in Seattle has already erected temporary triage tents in the parking lot as of 3/13/20. All regular beds are full at Evergreen Hospital as of yesterday.

Once the government of China, Norway, and Italy came to understand this math, they reacted accordingly and shut EVERYTHING down. Extreme social distancing is the only response available to stop the virus today. The United States is not responding well nor are other countries like France or the UK. Countries that do not respond well will pay a much larger, catastrophic price.

But hospital beds are not the big problem. The lack of ventilators is the big problem. Most estimates peg the ventilators in the United States at roughly 100,000 to 150,000 units. See https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21149215 (admittedly dated) and https://theweek.com/…/doesnt-have-enough-icu-beds-ventilato…

The primary and most serious comorbid (comorbid is a medical term that means co-existing or happening at the same time) condition brought on by the Coronavirus is something called bilateral interstitial pneumonia which requires ventilators for treatment of seriously ill patients. So if 1.5M people of the 10 million infected 30 days from now require acute care (15% of the 10M estimated total infections), 1.3M may not get the care that they need because we don’t have enough ventilators in the United States. And remember, this is only if ALL OF US EFFECTIVELY start social distancing by April 11th (30 days from today).

BUT IF WE START EXTREME SOCIAL DISTANCING BY MARCH 23 (12 days from this writing), WE AVOID OVER 1.4 MILLION PEOPLE GETTING CRITICALLY ILL AND OVERWHELMING THE HOSPITALS:

If everyone takes extreme measures to social distance, and the United States can dramatically reduce the spread of the virus 12 days from now, the math is very different, as the exponential growth will only be 2 to the 4th power (12 days divided by the doubling rate of every 3 days equals the exponent of 4):

2 x 2 x 2 x 2 = 16

So instead of 10 Million cases in the United States if we wait 30 days, if we act 18 days sooner, we will have only 160,000 cases (16 times the estimated 10,000 actual cases as of today), of which 15% are likely to require critical care. This is 24,000 critical patients (a huge difference compared to 1.5 million acute patients). The difference between taking extreme measures now, versus waiting even a few days, is very large due to how exponents work in math.

THE OUTCOME IS EVEN BETTER IF WE TAKE ACTION IN THE NEXT 6 DAYS: If the vast majority of the population self isolates and implements social distancing in only 6 days from now the exponential math is 2 to the 2nd power (6 days divided by the 3 days it takes the virus to double means the exponent is only 2). In math this is "two squared".

2 x 2 = 4

Multiplied by the estimated 10,000 ACTUAL cases as of today (3/12/20) that means only 40,000 total cases will develop, 15% of which may be critical which is 6,000 critical patients.

This is why you should share this post broadly. If people begin social distancing in the next 6 days it will greatly reduce the impact on all of us. It's why they say a "post goes viral".

SOCIAL DISTANCING WILL REDUCE THE FINANCIAL IMPACT TO YOU AND YOUR FAMILY:

Finally, the longer everyone waits to practice significant social distancing the greater the economic hardship will be on all of us. Lost jobs. Mortgage defaults. Closed businesses. Bankruptcies. All will be minimized if you start social distancing today.

Some of the reasons the economic impacts will be reduced are worth mentioning: If we stop the virus now the overall duration of the outbreak will be far shorter. The stock market will normalize more quickly and recover more quickly. Businesses and people will be able to survive a shorter duration outbreak vs a longer duration outbreak. More companies will avoid bankruptcy if we begin to practice social distancing now.

This is a big financial reason to begin social distancing if you are employed by any company: if companies see that the virus is being slowed, they will be less likely to conduct layoffs. You will be more likely to be laid off or experience a job-related event if we don’t practice social distancing immediately. As an HR executive, I’ve been involved in many, many layoffs. It’s the last thing companies want to do. But if they see that the pandemic will be shorter lived vs long and drawn out, they are less likely to make the permanent decision of laying off staff.

The overall economic impact that hits your bank account will be greater if you wait or you don’t practice social distancing. This is why Norway acted now, because it’s less economic impact to take drastic measures early than to do them later, and it saves a lot of lives and suffering by doing so. And Norway has only one confirmed death as of this writing.

START TODAY. I CAN’T STRESS THIS ENOUGH. YOU MUST START TODAY.

Finally, the article that I posted yesterday written by Tomas Pueyo has been read 7M times in the last 24 hours and has been updated with new information. It’s worth reading again.

Here’s that link.

https://medium.com/…/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-d…

Other up to date data I frequently consult regarding the pandemic is here:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

I hope this is helpful and useful. My brain focuses on the math and I try and be fact based in my analysis and interpretation of how I should respond.

There is more information in the comments below worth reading and I will be updating this post, and the comments, with more information, as opposed to creating new posts.

MY FINAL PARTING THOUGHT: Please share or forward this post at your discretion. If everyone shares this post and two of your friends share this post and so on, we use the power of exponential math to work in our favor, which seems appropriate given the virus is using that same exponential math against us.

For people not on Facebook you can email or text the link. If you know people in government this fact-based post may help inform them to make the best decisions.

It's time for us humans to go on the offensive against the virus. We must fight back.

There is only one way to do so: Social Distancing.

Do it today.

Attachment with no description
Coronavirus Update (Live): 156,534 Cases and 5,835 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Outbreak – Worldometer https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
Live statistics and coronavirus news tracking the number of confirmed cases, recovered patients, and death toll by country due to the COVID 19 coronavirus from Wuhan, China. Coronavirus counter with new cases, historical data, and info. Daily charts, graphs, news and updates

WORLDOMETERS.INF
Cecily A Drucker

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## Timwis (19/3/20)

Hooked said:


> We used to get chips in newspaper here too, in the good 'ol days - and how yummy that was!!


And it's that generation that grew up entirely on chips out of newspapers that are living for record length of times, more health and safety c**p. We live too cleanly theses days, kids playing on game consoles instead of outside playing in the dirt and licking their fingers etc and all the usual things little kids would do. It has made our immune systems in general weaker (no proof but stands to reason).

Reactions: Agree 3


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## mad_hatter (19/3/20)

Timwis said:


> And it's that generation that grew up entirely on chips out of newspapers that are living for record length of times, more health and safety c**p. We live too cleanly theses days, kids playing on game consoles instead of outside playing in the dirt and licking their fingers etc and all the usual things little kids would do. It has made our immune systems in general weaker (no proof but stands to reason).


Did you spend your childhood walking uphill in snow barefoot for 10km just to get to school? 

Sent from my HD1901 using Tapatalk

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## Timwis (19/3/20)

mad_hatter said:


> Did you spend your childhood walking uphill in snow barefoot for 10km just to get to school?
> 
> Sent from my HD1901 using Tapatalk


Am i supposed to feel guilty that i didn't or something???? Downhill all the way to my school maybe barefoot would of been a blessing the amount of broken bones slipping on the ice beneath the snow! We have mentioned Chips a great pity if shoulders come into it!


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## mad_hatter (19/3/20)

Timwis said:


> Am i supposed to feel guilty that i didn't or something???? Downhill all the way to my school maybe barefoot would of been a blessing the amount of broken bones slipping on the ice beneath the snow! We have mentioned Chips a great pity if shoulders come into it!


You sound like you're having a stroke

Sent from my HD1901 using Tapatalk


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## Timwis (19/3/20)

Adephi said:


> Just to keep it in perspective.
> 
> View attachment 191618
> 
> ...


These are dated 23rd January when the Virus was isolated to China which are known for their openness for giving information!


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## Adephi (19/3/20)

Timwis said:


> These are dated 23rd January when the Virus was isolated to China which are known for their openness for giving information!


Yeah. A lot has changed in the last few weeks of what we know of this virus.

I for one never get squeamish or worked up about these outbreaks. I've worked with Ebola, Marburg and recently Congo fever bloods without thinking twice. This virus might not be as dangerous. But it has the potential of bringing down 1st world hospital systems. We don't even want to imagine what it will do to Africa. This virus I've got a lot respect for.

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## Adephi (19/3/20)

On another note, I heard from people in the pharmaceutical industry we are starting to face a shortage of glycerin due to homemade sanitizer.

They better leave my vape juice alone.

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## Resistance (20/3/20)

Adephi said:


> On another note, I heard from people in the pharmaceutical industry we are starting to face a shortage of


2 different industries, 2different markets
We "should" be ok.


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## Adephi (20/3/20)

Was chating with somebody on FB about the infection rates and where we are heading and made a few sums.


Centurion population 236 580 (as per wikipedia, apparently its closer to 330 000)

Best case scenario only 20% gets infected at the peak of the epidemic. 
47 316 people infected.

15% needs hospitalization (some places in UK this reached over 30%)
7 097 beds needed. (Excluding non CoVid cases)

Our 2 major private hospitals:
Unitas registered for 470 beds
Midstream registered for 176 beds

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## Timwis (20/3/20)

Adephi said:


> 15% needs hospitalization (some places in UK this reached over 30%)



Sure it's just a typo but you say reached as in past tense, cases might be as stated but it's still early days and it's rising all the time. Because of the UK government going for a slowing down approach rather than Italy's Lockdown cases are not even expected to peak until 12 weeks time and i have heard figures as bad as 60% getting the virus (albeit most mildly) with a worse case yet very possible 80%.

School Exams have been cancelled for this school year and pupils will get grades based on what the teachers estimate they would of got. This is no small thing as it can shape someone's future working life and even if a good grade is giving future employers will be well aware looking at their applications that their school year was the year which meant they didn't need to sit exams so the working under pressure aspect of an exam hasn't been proved! 

Exams wouldn't even be until July/August so to already officially cancel them despite there importance shows we are expected to be in this for the long haul!

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## Grand Guru (20/3/20)

There is no healthcare system in the world that can cope with those figures...
60% is what you need to ultimately reach (50 to 70) in terms of population infected in order to develop herd immunity and naturally stop the progression of the disease. But we need to reach this percentage in a very very slow pace @Adephi so that the healthcare system can cope with the load, that is why we need people to cooperate fully with the NICD recommendations (social distancing and hand hygiene) to slow and not to stop the disease and flatten the curve of new cases. What is happening in the UK is the sole fault of the government who opted to let the infection spread quickly spread in order to reach herd immunity not taking into consideration the catastrophic effects this will have on the coping capabilities of the NHS... And they rectified the approach a bit late.

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## Raindance (20/3/20)

mad_hatter said:


> Did you spend your childhood walking uphill in snow barefoot for 10km just to get to school?
> 
> Sent from my HD1901 using Tapatalk


Boet! It was uphill both ways in those days.

Regards

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## ARYANTO (20/3/20)

*Up to 70% of South Africans will get the coronavirus – Health Minister*
Jamie McKane20 March 2020



  
Health Minister Zweli Mkhize said that between 60% and 70% of South Africans are likely to contract the COVID-19 coronavirus, according to a report by *News24*.

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## Silver (20/3/20)

Adephi said:


> Was chating with somebody on FB about the infection rates and where we are heading and made a few sums.
> 
> 
> Centurion population 236 580 (as per wikipedia, apparently its closer to 330 000)
> ...



Quite alarming @Adephi 
I just hope they can find a vaccine sooner than 12-18 months (as I have seen mentioned on various articles)

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## Timwis (20/3/20)

Raindance said:


> Boet! It was uphill both ways in those days.
> 
> Regards


Nothing wrong with his content but for the life of me don't understand why it was directed at me in such a manner. We might not of walked 10km to school in bare feet but what was that to do with me? What is a fact with the UK was back in the 70's our winters were harsh and very deep snowfall was common and happened regularly every year, we wore patches on our patches till there was no actual trousers left in view and had that many holes in our socks because a pair can only take so much darning we might as well of had no socks on at all, back then whatever the temperature and even many feet of snow schools were open! So no i didn't walk 10km bare foot up hill to get to school but instead we experienced in footwear and clothes not fit for purpose walking to school in sub-zero temperatures with ice and deep snow, everyone has memories!


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## Alex (20/3/20)

https://www.covidtrial.io/

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## Grand Guru (20/3/20)

Developing the vaccine is not what take time but it's the different steps for quality assurance and safety purposes that the product has to go through that take time @Silver.

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## Room Fogger (20/3/20)

Timwis said:


> Nothing wrong with his content but for the life of me don't understand why it was directed at me in such a manner. We might not of walked 10km to school in bare feet but what was that to do with me? What is a fact with the UK was back in the 70's our winters were harsh and very deep snowfall was common and happened regularly every year, we wore patches on our patches till there was no actual trousers left in view and had that many holes in our socks because a pair can only take so much darning we might as well of had no socks on at all, back then whatever the temperature and even many feet of snow schools were open! So no i didn't walk 10km bare foot up hill to get to school but instead we experienced in footwear and clothes not fit for purpose walking to school in sub-zero temperatures with ice and deep snow, everyone has memories!


It’s old South African humor, because the young generation have it so easy with all of the gadgets and easy transport and availability of money, sure you may have some similar for this on that side of the ocean.

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## Timwis (20/3/20)

Room Fogger said:


> It’s old South African humor, because the young generation have it so easy with all of the gadgets and easy transport and availability of money, sure you may have some similar for this on that side of the ocean.


Yes, but i'm comfortably older than him?


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## Adephi (20/3/20)

Silver said:


> Quite alarming @Adephi
> I just hope they can find a vaccine sooner than 12-18 months (as I have seen mentioned on various articles)



I'm not a religious person and I'm praying for for that vaccine. I know 3 countries are currently working on it. But even if they do get it it needs to go into human trails and that can take a couple of months.

The malaria medication sounds promising. But still more testing that needs to be done. The good news (and there's not a lot of that recently) is that we should have enough of it and be able to get extra generics out quick being a country that is prone to malaria.

Why don't they just use these vaccines and medications when theoretically it should work even though untested?

Firstly, we don't know about any side effect or how it may react with other medications. Might save somebody from Covid but end up getting something much worse.

Secondly, there could be a significant part of the population that it won't work for. And that will give a false sense of security that they don't have the disease but they do and are spreading it wherever they go while being asymptomatic.

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## Grand Guru (20/3/20)

Adephi said:


> I'm not a religious person and I'm praying for for that vaccine. I know 3 countries are currently working on it. But even if they do get it it needs to go into human trails and that can take a couple of months.
> 
> The malaria medication sounds promising. But still more testing that needs to be done. The good news (and there's not a lot of that recently) is that we should have enough of it and be able to get extra generics out quick being a country that is prone to malaria.
> 
> ...


These vaccines are allegedly produced by private laboratories @Adephi and we all know what these guys are after... So stringent safety protocols and trials are of utmost importance if we don’t want to sit with another major public health crisis.
Chloroquine is a historical drug in the treatment of malaria... it’s been used for decades and it’s not much in use anymore. So all its effects, side-effects etc. are well known. It has a positive action on the symptoms especially fever but it’s not an antiviral agent.

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## Grand Guru (20/3/20)

.


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## Timwis (20/3/20)

Adephi said:


> I'm not a religious person and I'm praying for for that vaccine. I know 3 countries are currently working on it. But even if they do get it it needs to go into human trails and that can take a couple of months.
> 
> The malaria medication sounds promising. But still more testing that needs to be done. The good news (and there's not a lot of that recently) is that we should have enough of it and be able to get extra generics out quick being a country that is prone to malaria.
> 
> ...


Hope the first one ready isn't out of the States as this will see those top blokes (women too sounds a bit of an ism) from the FDA being the issue again. Any medical product made in the States or passed for use in the States needs FDA clearance. I was for 8 years involved in making glucose testing strips for diabetics and getting all the testing and paperwork coordinated to the stage where the products became available was pretty straight forward for the rest of the world including the EU but the FDA was a different story and the stupidity is what they require doesn't make the product safer it's just so much Red tape it's beyond a joke!

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## Adephi (21/3/20)

My favourite non-vape reviewer.



Video is a few days old so the numbers are a bit out. And its mainly Australian focused. But the message is still the same.

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1


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## Hooked (21/3/20)

Grand Guru said:


> These vaccines are allegedly produced by private laboratories @Adephi and we all know what these guys are after... So stringent safety protocols and trials are of utmost importance if we don’t want to sit with another major public health crisis.
> Chloroquine is a historical drug in the treatment of malaria... it’s been used for decades and it’s not much in use anymore. So all its effects, side-effects etc. are well known. It has a positive action on the symptoms especially fever but it’s not an antiviral agent.



*Nigeria's Lagos state battling chloroquine poisoning*
https://www.africanews.com/2020/03/...oronavirus-case-index-patient-fully-recovers/

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## Hooked (21/3/20)



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## Grand Guru (21/3/20)

Hooked said:


> *Nigeria's Lagos state battling chloroquine poisoning*
> https://www.africanews.com/2020/03/...oronavirus-case-index-patient-fully-recovers/


That’s what happens when fake news are spread in uncontrolled manner through social media and then a d@ck-head like Donald Trump condones these false claims...

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## Alex (21/3/20)

Grand Guru said:


> That’s what happens when fake news are spread in uncontrolled manner through social media and then a d@ck-head like Donald Trump condones these false claims...

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## Jengz (21/3/20)

Hi guys,

Just to spread what knowledge i have on this to the few that are on the forum. There are currently about 7000 cases of backlog at pathology labs in SA where the labs are only testing high risk patients.

So if only 10 percent of those are positive thats a 700 increase overnight without more cases coming in. Chances are, a large majority of the cases will be posotove unfortunately.

Below is also a graphical representation



SA is clearly in som trouble if we look at this graph, more so if we assess our infrastructure in comparison to the countries on the graph.

Be it as it may, lets keep motivated and positive that we will overcome with as little loss as possible and lets try to do what we can for the less fortunate who will be imoacted significantly by this this disease.

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## Adephi (21/3/20)

Jengz said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Just to spread what knowledge i have on this to the few that are on the forum. There are currently about 7000 cases of backlog at pathology labs in SA where the labs are only testing high risk patients.
> 
> ...



The private labs are pretty much up to date. Its the NICD thats getting the bulk of the work where the main backlog is. They said they currently have the capacity of doing 5000 test per day. They putting measures in place to do 15k per day sometime this week. And by mid-April they will have a capacity of doing 30k per day. That would be the most Corona tests performed by a lab so far.

Another thing, when the private labs get a positive the result goes to the doctor and treatment commences. But the result first needs to be verified by the NICD before it gets added to the total. So there is a delay of 2-3 days.

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## Grand Guru (21/3/20)

Alex said:


>



Videos like this one contribute to the spreading of the myth of a miraculous treatment and people who have it within hand lie the Nigerian and the Congolese etc. due to their endemic malaria will start using right, left and center with the hope to prevent or treat mild forms of the disease.... I’m sure most of us would miss the critical point that the drug was used in the severe form of the disease with some success mainly due to its anti-inflammatory properties.... it won’t work on everyone and it won’t work all the time.
That’s why I don’t go on Facebook for at least 3 years

Reactions: Like 2


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## Alex (21/3/20)

Grand Guru said:


> Videos like this one contribute to the spreading of the myth of a miraculous treatment and people who have it within hand lie the Nigerian and the Congolese etc. due to their endemic malaria will start using right, left and center with the hope to prevent or treat mild forms of the disease.... I’m sure most of us would miss the critical point that the drug was used in the severe form of the disease with some success mainly due to its anti-inflammatory properties.... it won’t work on everyone and it won’t work all the time.
> That’s why I don’t go on Facebook for at least 3 years



There are currently widespread trials taking place right now all around the world based on the early positive albeit small scale clinical results. Everyone's hoping for a positive outcome, because the alternatives are too dire to contemplate. There's enough negativity going around in the media to add to it here. So it's important to be positive in my view, especially now when the entire globe is losing their collective minds thanks to the media. It's more important to give people hope, because hopelessness is a one way road to nowhere.

And regarding the Nigeria thing, yes. the world has many sheep.

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## Adephi (21/3/20)

Here's a happy thought!

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## Silver (21/3/20)

Jengz said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Just to spread what knowledge i have on this to the few that are on the forum. There are currently about 7000 cases of backlog at pathology labs in SA where the labs are only testing high risk patients.
> 
> ...



Thanks for sharing that @Jengz 
I notice the logarithmic scale on the vertical axis
Scary indeed
I agree that SA doesn’t have the same amount of infrastructure as the other countries. I just hope Eskom can continue without load shedding because that does help.

We have to stay positive and all try do our bit to help the situation 
And that means trying not to get the virus and trying not to spread it if you have it.

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## Resistance (21/3/20)

Adephi said:


> I'm not a religious person and I'm praying for for that vaccine. I know 3 countries are currently working on it. But even if they do get it it needs to go into human trails and that can take a couple of months.
> 
> The malaria medication sounds promising. But still more testing that needs to be done. The good news (and there's not a lot of that recently) is that we should have enough of it and be able to get extra generics out quick being a country that is prone to malaria.
> 
> ...



https://news-af.feednews.com/news/detail/e451c8b293bc5d0118066f23f2b3583d?client=news
You may have prayed right!

Reactions: Like 4


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## DougP (21/3/20)

This is why we are "Social Distancing"
Corona Virus Cases..

New York
wk 1 - 2
wk 2 - 105
wk 3 - 613

France 
wk 1 - 12
wk 2 - 191
wk 3 - 653
wk 4 - 4499

Iran
wk 1 - 2
wk 2 - 43
wk 3 - 245
wk 4 - 4747
wk 5 - 12729

Italy
wk 1 - 3
wk 2 - 152
wk 3 - 1036
wk 4 - 6362
wk 5 - 21157

Spain
wk 1 - 8
wk 3 - 674
wk 4 - 6043

India 
wk 1 - 3
wk 2 - 24
wk 3 - 105

South Africa
wk 1 - 13
wk 2 - 116

The next two weeks are crucial for South Africa. If we take adequate precautions and flatten the curve, then we can break the tide of this Corona virus outbreak. Else we have a big problem on our hands, especially for the elderly and large immunocompromised population. So far so good... South Africa has done well in its fight to contain Corona Virus. 

Now we are in stage 3 in which the Virus spreads through social contacts & in social gatherings. This is most critical stage when the number of confirmed cases spread exponentially everyday (what happened in Italy between last week of February & second week of March)...from 300 to 10,000. If South Africa is not able to manage this stage over the next 3 to 4 weeks then we could have confirmed cases not in Thousands but in Millions. This next month is crucial. That is why most events & public gatherings have been prohibited.

The next 30 days will be the most crucial in the medical History of South Africa. Take all precautions while at home & while outside for any important work. Precaution is NOT panic.

Be a responsible citizen by following instructions/advice & educate others to remain careful for the next month at least. 

#CoronaVirus
FlattenTheCurve


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## DougP (21/3/20)

Here is the latest from the WHO website
New Cases and New Deaths are those recorded over the last 24 hours

This is a screen shot of the top counties by numbers






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## ARYANTO (21/3/20)

en ou mense se '' Was jou hanne voor jy eet en moenie met die bure se hond , dogter of mampoer speel nie''
en ons het oorleef van 1918 af , so . nou .''drink- net mampoer , eet jou boontjies, bere Tuna , en ''waar is julle Jeys fluid''

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## ARYANTO (22/3/20)

Blends Of Distinction said:


> Here is the latest from the WHO website
> New Cases and New Deaths are those recorded over the last 24 hours
> 
> This is a screen shot of the top counties by numbers
> ...

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## ARYANTO (22/3/20)

Blends Of Distinction said:


> Here is the latest from the WHO website
> New Cases and New Deaths are those recorded over the last 24 hours
> 
> This is a screen shot of the top counties by numbers
> ...


what is depressing , concert tic'd booked 27 MAY 
VISA'S confirmed
Ionian boat criuse = on hold
A visit to a dear friend Arizona/ New MEX -cancelled
The Palace - n/ Province ... gone

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## Adephi (22/3/20)

Got confirmation about our first case in our estate last night. Its getting close to home now.

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## Silver (22/3/20)

Hi all

Found this article. It was referenced on Twitter.

It is quite scary but I think it illustrates how important it is to do everything you can to avoid getting and spreading Coronavirus. I think the article runs the risk of making people too scared and hyping it. So don’t be too alarmed. But it has a good way of explaining how the virus can be transmitted and what happens when you get it. So I think it’s worth reading.

Most people who get the virus will be ok - around 80%. Our immune system will fight it and one recovers at home while resting. But 20% need help. And a portion of those get further progression, leading to severe pneumonia and even organ failure / sepsis in the worst case. The *elderly and those with compromised immune systems *are most at risk for the progression scenario.

Read the article, it never harms to understand things a bit better. Just be warned, it’s quite scary and don’t let it make you panic, rather try let it help.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/amp/2020/03/the-story-of-a-coronavirus-infection.html

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## Silver (22/3/20)

I am going to try post the text of the article below as well

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## Silver (22/3/20)

*Article credit - NYmag.com
Article URL - https://nymag.com/intelligencer/amp/2020/03/the-story-of-a-coronavirus-infection.html*

*How the Coronavirus Could Take Over Your Body (Before You Ever Feel It)*
By Jeff Wise
_




Photo: Dr. F.A. Murphy/Getty Images/Visuals Unlimited

You call a friend and arrange to meet for lunch. It’s unseasonably springlike, so you choose a place with outdoor seating, which seems like it should be safer. As usual, you take all reasonable precautions: You use hand sanitizer, sit a good distance from other customers, and try to avoid touching your face, though that last part is hard. A part of you suspects that this whole thing might be overblown.

What you don’t know is that ten days ago, your friend’s father was a guest of his business partner at the University Club, where he caught the novel coronavirus from the wife of a cryptocurrency speculator. Three days after that, he coughed into his hand before opening the door of his apartment to welcome his son home. The saliva of COVID-19 patients can harbor half a trillion virus particles per teaspoon, and a cough aerosolizes it into a diffuse mist. As your friend walked through the door he took a breath and 32,456 virus particles settled onto the lining of his mouth and throat.


Viruses have been multiplying inside his body ever since. And as he talks, the passage of his breath over the moist lining of his upper throat creates tiny droplets of virus-laden mucus that waft invisibly into the air over your table. Some settle on the as-yet-uneaten food on your plate, some drift onto your fingers, others are drawn into your nasal sinus or settle into your throat. By the time you extend your hand to shake good-bye, your body is carrying 43,654 virus particles. By the time you’re done shaking hands, that number is up to 312,405.


One of the droplets gets drawn into the branching passages of your lungs and settles on the warm, wet surface, depositing virus particles into the mucus coating the tissue. Each particle is round and very small; if you magnified a human hair so that it was as wide as a football field, the virus particle would be four inches across. The outer membrane of the virus consists of an oily layer embedded with jagged protein molecules called spike proteins. These stick out like the protrusions on a knobby ball chew toy. In the middle of the virus particle is a coiled strand of RNA, the virus’s genetic material. The payload.

As the virus drifts through the lung’s mucus, it bumps into one of the cells that line the surface. The cell is considerably larger than the virus; on the football-field scale, it’s 26 feet across. A billion years of evolution have equipped it to resist attackers. But it also has a vulnerability — a backdoor. Protruding from its surface is a chunk of protein called angiotensin converting enzyme 2, or ACE2 receptor. Normally, this molecule plays a role in modulating hormone activity within the body. Today, it’s going to serve as an anchor for the coronavirus.

As the spike protein bumps up against the surface of the lung cell, its shape matches that of the ACE2 so closely that it sticks to it like adhesive. The membrane of the virus then fuses with the membrane of the cell, spilling the RNA contents into the interior of the lung cell. The virus is in.


The viral RNA gets busy. The cell has its own genetic material, DNA, that produces copied fragments of itself in RNA form. These are continuously copied and sent into the main body of the cell, where they provide instructions for how to make the proteins that carry out all the functions of the cell. It’s like Santa’s workshop, where the elves, dutifully hammering out the toys on Santa’s instructions, are complexes of RNA and protein called ribosomes.

As soon as the viral RNA encounters a ribosome, that ribosome begins reading it and building viral proteins. These proteins then help the viral RNA to copy itself, and these copies then hijack more of the cell’s ribosomes. Other viral proteins block the cell from fighting back. Soon the cell’s normal business is completely overwhelmed by the demands of the viral RNA, as its energy and machinery are occupied with building the components of countless replica viruses.

As they are churned out, these components are transferred on a kind of cellular conveyor belt toward the surface of the cell. The virus membrane and spike proteins wrap around RNA strands, and a new particle is ready. These collect in internal bubbles, called vesicles, that move to the surface, burst open, and release new virus particles into your body by the tens and hundreds of thousands.

Meanwhile, spike proteins that haven’t been incorporated into new viruses embed themselves directly into the host cell’s membrane so that it latches onto the surface of an adjacent cell, like a pirate ship lashing itself to a helpless merchantman. The two cells then fuse, and a whole host of viral RNA swarms over into the new host cell.

All up and down your lungs, throat, and mouth, the scene is repeated over and over as cell after cell is penetrated and hijacked. Assuming the virus behaves like its relative, SARS, each generation of infection takes about a day and can multiply the virus a millionfold. The replicated viruses spill out into the mucus, invade the bloodstream, and pour through the digestive system.


You don’t feel any of this. In fact, you still feel totally fine. If you have any complaint at all, it’s boredom. You’ve been a dutiful citizen, staying at home to practice social distancing, and after two days of bingeing on the Fast & Furious franchise, you decide that your mental health is at risk if you don’t get outside.


You call up an ex, and she agrees to meet you for a walk along the river. You’re hoping that the end-of-the-world zeitgeist might kindle some afternoon recklessness, but the face mask she’s wearing kills the vibe. Also she tells you that she’s decided to move in with a guy she met at Landmark. You didn’t even know she was into Landmark. She gives you a warm hug as you say good-bye, and you tell her it was great to see her, but you leave feeling deflated. What she doesn’t know is that an hour before, you went to the bathroom and neglected to wash your hands afterward. The invisible fecal smear you leave on the arm of her jacket contains 893,405 virus particles. Forty-seven seconds after she gets home, she’ll hang up her coat and then scratch an itch at the base of her nose just before she washes her hands. In that moment, 9,404 viral particles will transfer to her face. In five days, an ambulance will take her to Mount Sinai.


Like a retail chain gobbled up by private equity, stripped for parts, and left to die, your infected cells spew out virus particles until they burn themselves out and expire. As fragments of disintegrated cells spread through your bloodstream, your immune system finally senses that something is wrong. White blood cells detect the fragments of dead cells and release chemicals called cytokines that serve as an alarm signal, activating other parts of the immune system to swing into action. When responding immune cells identify a cell that has become infected, they attack and destroy it. Within your body, a microscopic Battle of the Somme is raging with your immune system leveling its Big Berthas on both the enemy trenches and its own troops. As the carnage mounts, the body’s temperature rises and the infected area becomes inflamed.


Two days later, sitting down to lunch, you realize that the thought of eating makes you feel nauseated. You lie down and sleep for a few hours. When you wake up, you realize that you’ve only gotten worse. Your chest feels tight, and you’ve got a dry cough that just won’t quit. You wonder: Is this what it feels like? You rummage through your medicine cabinet in vain and ultimately find a thermometer in the back of your linen closet. You hold it under your tongue for a minute and then read the result: 102. ****, you think, and crawl back into bed. You tell yourself that it might just be the regular flu, and even if worse comes to worst, you’re young(-ish) and otherwise healthy. You’re not in the high-risk group.


You’re right, of course, in a sense. For most people infected with the coronavirus, that’s as far as it goes. With bed rest, they get better. But for reasons scientists don’t understand, about 20 percent of people get severely ill. Despite your relative youth, you’re one of them.

After four days of raging fever and feeling sore all over, you realize that you’re sicker than you’ve ever been in your life. You’ve got a dry cough that shakes you so hard that your back hurts. Fighting for breath, you order an Uber and head to the nearest emergency room. (You leave 376,345,090 virus particles smeared on various surfaces of the car and another 323,443,865 floating in aerosols in the air.)


At the ER, you’re examined and sent to an isolation ward. As doctors wait for the results of a test for the coronavirus, they administer a CT scan of your lungs, which reveals tell-tale “ground-glass opacities,” fuzzy spots caused by fluid accumulating where the immune-system battle is the most intense. Not only have you got COVID-19, but it’s led to a kind of intense and dangerous pneumonia called acute-respiratory-distress syndrome, or ARDS.

With all the regular beds already occupied by the many COVID-19 sufferers, you’re given a cot in a room alongside five other patients. Doctors put you on an intravenous drip to supply your body with nutrients and fluids as well as antiviral medicine. Within a day of your arrival, your condition deteriorates. You throw up for several days and start to hallucinate. Your heart rate slows to 50 beats a minute. When a patient in the next room dies, doctors take the ventilator he was using and put you on it. By the time the nurse threads the endotracheal tube down your throat, you’re only half-conscious of the sensation of it snaking deeper and deeper toward your lungs. You just lie there as she places tape over your mouth to keep the tube in place.


You’re crashing. Your immune system has flung itself into a “cytokine storm” — an overdrive of such intensity that it is no longer fighting just the viral infection but the body’s own cells as well. White blood cells storm your lungs, destroying tissue. Fluid fills the tiny alveolar sacs that normally let the blood absorb oxygen. Effectively, you’re drowning, even with the ventilator pumping oxygen-enriched air into your lungs.


That’s not the worst of it. The intensity of the immune response is such that under its onslaught, organs throughout the body are shutting down, a process known as multiple-organ-dysfunction syndrome, or MODS. When your liver fails, it is unable to process toxins out of your blood, so your doctors rush to hook you up to a round-the-clock dialysis machine. Starved of oxygen, your brain cells begin to expire.

You’re fluttering on the edge between life and death. Now that you’ve slipped into MODS, your odds are 50-50 or worse. Owing to the fact that the pandemic has stretched the hospital’s resources past the breaking point, your outlook is even bleaker.

Lying on your cot, you half-hear as the doctors hook you up to an extracorporeal-membrane-oxygenation (ECMO) machine. This will take over the work of your heart and lungs and hopefully keep you alive until your body can find its way back to equilibrium.


And then, you are flooded with an overwhelming sense of calm. You sense that you have reached the nadir of your struggle. The worst of the danger is over. With the viral attack beaten, your body’s immune system will pull back, and you’ll begin the slow, painstaking journey to full recovery. Some weeks from now, the doctors will remove the tube from your throat and wheel away the ventilator. Your appetite will come back, and the color will return to your cheeks, and on a summer morning you’ll step out into the fresh air and hail a cab for home. And later still, you’ll meet the girl who will become your wife, and you’ll have three children, two of whom will have children of their own, who will visit you in your nursing home outside Tampa.

That’s what your mind is telling itself, anyway, as the last cells of your cerebral cortex burst in starburst waves, like the glowing algae in a midnight lagoon. In the isolation ward, your EKG goes to a steady tone. The doctors take away the ventilator and give it to a patient who arrived this morning. In the official records of the COVID-19 pandemic, you’ll be recorded as victim No. 592.
_

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## Adephi (22/3/20)

Silver said:


> Hi all
> 
> Found this article. It was referenced on Twitter.
> 
> ...



Thank you @Silver . At this stage some people need some fear to start realising the situation we are in.

Reactions: Agree 7


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## Raindance (22/3/20)

Silver said:


> *Article credit - NYmag.com
> Article URL - https://nymag.com/intelligencer/amp/2020/03/the-story-of-a-coronavirus-infection.html*
> 
> *How the Coronavirus Could Take Over Your Body (Before You Ever Feel It)*
> ...



Eisch!

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## Grand Guru (22/3/20)

A small list of useful resources: 

1. http://www.nicd.ac.za/ 
2. https://sacoronavirus.co.za/ 
3. https://www.mediclinic.co.za/en/corporate/corona-virus/covid-19-risk-assessment-tool.html 
4. https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ao780VrDACpfZ3AdmUslCsuAF8Q?e=Z1aAUB

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## Timwis (22/3/20)

Raindance said:


> Eisch!


That's ruined my Sunday and i have only been up 10 mins!

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## Silver (22/3/20)

Hi all

Here’s a great article I read earlier. It’s an interview with an epidemiologist who helped fight against smallpox. This guy knows his stuff. What I appreciated about this is the clarity and the high level view.

It’s not all bad news and there is a bright side.

Well worth a read

Am going to paste it below:

*Article credit - Wired.com
URL -* https://www.wired.com/story/coronavirus-interview-larry-brilliant-smallpox-epidemiologist/

________________________________________________________________________________

*The Doctor Who Helped Defeat Smallpox Explains What's Coming*
Epidemiologist Larry Brilliant, who warned of pandemic in 2006, says we can beat the novel coronavirus—but first, we need lots more testing.




PHOTOGRAPH: PAUL ZIMMERMAN/GETTY IMAGES
LARRY BRILLIANT SAYS he doesn’t have a crystal ball. But 14 years ago, Brilliant, the epidemiologist who helped eradicate smallpox, spoke to a TED audience and described what the next pandemic would look like. At the time, it sounded almost too horrible to take seriously. “A billion people would get sick," he said. “As many as 165 million people would die. There would be a global recession and depression, and the cost to our economy of $1 to $3 trillion would be far worse for everyone than merely 100 million people dying, because so many more people would lose their jobs and their health care benefits, that the consequences are almost unthinkable.”

Now the unthinkable is here, and Brilliant, the Chairman of the board of Ending Pandemics, is sharing expertise with those on the front lines. We are a long way from 100 million deaths due to the novel coronavirus, but it has turned our world upside down. Brilliant is trying not to say “I told you so” too often. But he _did_ tell us so, not only in talks and writings, but as the senior technical advisor for the pandemic horror film _Contagion_, now a top streaming selection for the homebound. Besides working with the World Health Organization in the effort to end smallpox, Brilliant, who is now 75, has fought flu, polio, and blindness; once led Google’s nonprofit wing, Google.org; co-founded the conferencing system the Well; and has traveled with the Grateful Dead.

We talked by phone on Tuesday. At the time, President Donald Trump’s response to the crisis had started to change from “no worries at all” to finally taking more significant steps to stem the pandemic. Brilliant lives in one of the six Bay Area counties where residents were ordered to shelter in place. When we began the conversation, he’d just gotten off the phone with someone he described as high government official, who asked Brilliant “How the **** did we get here?” I wanted to hear how we’ll get _out_ of here. The conversation has been edited and condensed.

*Steven Levy: I was in the room in 2006 when you gave that TED talk. Your wish was “Help Me Stop Pandemics.” You didn't get your wish, did you?*

Larry Brilliant: No, I didn't get that wish at all, although the systems that I asked for have certainly been created and are being used. It's very funny because we did a movie, _Contagion—_

*We're all watching that movie now.*

People say _Contagion_ is prescient. We just saw the science. The whole epidemiological community has been warning everybody for the past 10 or 15 years that it wasn't a question of whether we were going to have a pandemic like this. It was simply when. It's really hard to get people to listen. I mean, Trump pushed out the admiral on the National Security Council, who was the only person at that level who's responsible for pandemic defense. With him went his entire downline of employees and staff and relationships. And then Trump removed the [early warning] funding for countries around the world.

*I've heard you talk about the significance that this is a “novel” virus.*

It doesn't mean a fictitious virus. It’s not like a novel or a novella.

*Too bad.*

It means it's new. That there is no human being in the world that has immunity as a result of having had it before. That means it’s capable of infecting 7.8 billion of our brothers and sisters.

*Since it's novel, we’re still learning about it. Do you believe that if someone gets it and recovers, that person thereafter has immunity?*

So I don't see anything in this virus, even though it's novel, [that contradicts that]. There are cases where people think that they've gotten it again, [but] that's more likely to be a test failure than it is an actual reinfection. But there's going to be tens of millions of us or hundreds of millions of us or more who will get this virus before it's all over, and with large numbers like that, almost anything where you ask “Does this happen?” _can_ happen. That doesn't mean that it is of public health or epidemiological importance.

*Is this the worst outbreak you’ve ever seen?*

It's the most dangerous pandemic in our lifetime.

*We are being asked to do things, certainly, that never happened in my lifetime—stay in the house, stay 6 feet away from other people, don’t go to group gatherings. Are we getting the right advice?*

Well, as you reach me, I'm pretending that I'm in a meditation retreat, but I'm actually being semi-quarantined in Marin County. Yes, this is very good advice. But did we get good advice from the president of the United States for the first 12 weeks? No. All we got were lies. Saying it’s fake, by saying this is a Democratic hoax. There are still people today who believe that, to their detriment. Speaking as a public health person, this is the most irresponsible act of an elected official that I've ever witnessed in my lifetime. But what you're hearing now [to self-isolate, close schools, cancel events] is right. Is it going to protect us completely? Is it going to make the world safe forever? No. It's a great thing because we want to spread out the disease over time.

*Flatten the curve.*

By slowing it down or flattening it, we're not going to decrease the total number of cases, we're going to postpone many cases, until we get a vaccine—which we will, because there's nothing in the virology that makes me frightened that we won’t get a vaccine in 12 to 18 months. Eventually, we will get to the epidemiologist gold ring.

*What’s that?*

That means, A, a large enough quantity of us have caught the disease and become immune. And B, we have a vaccine. The combination of A plus B is enough to create herd immunity, which is around 70 or 80 percent.

I hold out hope that we get an antiviral for Covid-19 that is curative, but in addition is prophylactic. It's certainly unproven and it's certainly controversial, and certainly a lot of people are not going to agree with me. But I offer as evidence two papers in 2005, one in _Nature_ and one in _Science_. They both did mathematical modeling with influenza, to see whether saturation with just Tamiflu of an area around a case of influenza could stop the outbreak. And in both cases, it worked. I also offer as evidence the fact that at one point we thought HIV/AIDS was incurable and a death sentence. Then, some wonderful scientists discovered antiviral drugs, and we've learned that some of those drugs can be given prior to exposure and prevent the disease. Because of the intense interest in getting [Covid-19] conquered, we will put the scientific clout and money and resources behind finding antivirals that have prophylactic or preventive characteristics that can be used in addition to [vaccines].

*When will we be able to leave the house and go back to work?*

I have a very good retrospect-oscope, but what's needed right now as a prospecto-scope. If this were a tennis match, I would say advantage virus right now. But there's really good news from South Korea—they had less than 100 cases today. China had more cases imported than it had from continuous transmission from Wuhan today. The Chinese model will be very hard for us to follow. We're not going to be locking people up in their apartments, boarding them up. But the South Korea model is one that we could follow. Unfortunately, it requires doing the proportionate number of tests that they did—they did well over a quarter of a million tests. In fact, by the time South Korea had done 200,000 tests, we had probably done less than 1,000.

*Now that we've missed the opportunity for early testing, is it too late for testing to make a difference?*

Absolutely not. Tests would make a measurable difference. We should be doing a stochastic process random probability sample of the country to find out where the hell the virus really is. Because we don't know. Maybe Mississippi is reporting no cases because it's not looking. How would they know? Zimbabwe reports zero cases because they don't have testing capability, not because they don't have the virus. We need something that looks like a home pregnancy test, that you can do at home.

*If you were the president for one day, what would you say in the daily briefing?*

I would begin the press conference by saying "Ladies and gentlemen, let me introduce you to Ron Klain—he was the Ebola czar [under President Barack Obama], and now I’ve called him back and made him Covid czar. Everything will be centralized under one person who has the respect of both the public health community and the political community." We're a divided country right now. Right now, Tony Fauci [head of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases] is the closest that we come to that.

*Are you scared?*

I'm in the age group that has a one in seven mortality rate if I get it. If you're not worried, you're not paying attention. But I'm not scared. I firmly believe that the steps that we're taking will extend the time that it takes for the virus to make the rounds. I think that, in turn, will increase the likelihood that we will have a vaccine or we will have a prophylactic antiviral in time to cut off, reduce, or truncate the spread. Everybody needs to remember: This is not a zombie apocalypse. It's not a mass extinction event.

*Should we be wearing masks?*

The N95 mask itself is extremely wonderful. The pores in the mask are three microns wide. The virus is one micron wide. So you get people who say, well, it's not going to work. But you try having three big, huge football players who are rushing for lunch through a door at lunchtime—they're not going to get through. In the latest data I saw, the mask provided 5x protection. That's really good. But we have to keep the hospitals going and we have to keep the health professionals able to come to work and be safe. So masks should go where they’re needed the most: in taking care of patients.

*How will we know when we’re through this?*

The world is not going to begin to look normal until three things have happened. One, we figure out whether the distribution of this virus looks like an iceberg, which is one-seventh above the water, or a pyramid, where we see everything. If we're only seeing right now one-seventh of the actual disease because we're not testing enough, and we're just blind to it, then we're in a world of hurt. Two, we have a treatment that works, a vaccine or antiviral. And three, maybe most important, we begin to see large numbers of people—in particular nurses, home health care providers, doctors, policemen, firemen, and teachers who have had the disease—are immune, and we have tested them to know that they are not infectious any longer. And we have a system that identifies them, either a concert wristband or a card with their photograph and some kind of a stamp on it. Then we can be comfortable sending our children back to school, because we know the teacher is not infectious.

And instead of saying "No, you can't visit anybody in nursing home," we have a group of people who are certified that they work with elderly and vulnerable people, and nurses who can go back into the hospitals and dentists who can open your mouth and look in your mouth and not be giving you the virus. When those three things happen, that's when normalcy will return.

*Is there in any way a brighter side to this?*

Well, I'm a scientist, but I'm also a person of faith. And I can't ever look at something without asking the question of isn't there a higher power that in some way will help us to be the best version of ourselves that we could be? I thought we would see the equivalent of empty streets in the civic arena, but the amount of civic engagement is greater than I've ever seen. But I'm seeing young kids, millennials, who are volunteering to go take groceries to people who are homebound, elderly. I'm seeing an incredible influx of nurses, heroic nurses, who are coming and working many more hours than they worked before, doctors who fearlessly go into the hospital to work. I've never seen the kind of volunteerism I'm seeing.

I don't want to pretend that this is an exercise worth going through in order to get to that state. This is a really unprecedented and difficult time that will test us. When we do get through it, maybe like the Second World War, it will cause us to reexamine what has caused the fractional division we have in this country. The virus is an equal opportunity infector. And it’s probably the way we would be better if we saw ourselves that way, which is much more alike than different.

_WIRED is providing unlimited free access to stories about the coronavirus pandemic. Sign up for our Coronavirus Update to get the latest in your inbox._

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## ARYANTO (22/3/20)

Kan nie eers hulle eie gatte ''defend'' nie maar wil Covid keer !

South African military forces may be deployed to patrol the streets in a bid to stop the spread of the COVID-19 coronavirus. This is according to a report in the *Sunday Times.*

The report stated that if there is a spike in coronavirus infections in the country, the army’s deployment would delay the need for a national lockdown.

Health Minister Zweli Mkhize told the Sunday Times that “if current restrictions do not limit the virus’s spread, the army will soon be patrolling the streets to enforce them”.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Informative 3


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## ARYANTO (22/3/20)

An old notice from Potch during the 1918 Spanish flu 




_*The advertisement requesting help was published on 15 October 1918 in the Potchefstroom Herald.*_

Reactions: Like 4 | Informative 2


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## Grand Guru (22/3/20)

https://www.latimes.com/science/sto...irus-treatments-where-we-are-and-what-we-know

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## ARYANTO (22/3/20)

*Capetonians good news for @Hooked, @Resistance and co.

Oranjezicht City Farm --- information and orders, email market@ozcf.co.za.*
The Market is closed but online veggies are sprouting.

If you are looking to have a grocery shopping experience that doesn’t feel apocalyptic and leave you scratching your head wondering what your fellow Capetonians plan to do with all that toilet paper, you can continue to support your local farmers via our online fruit and veg box offering.

Our farmers have loads of produce that they are continuing to harvest. So, from next week onwards, we will have a limited selection of veg and fruit boxes available to purchase online for drive-through collection at the market at specific times. Our packing team will be taking all the hygiene protocols to stay safe themselves. We have also taken the advice of event safety consultants and will be working with them over the next period to ensure the implementation of additional safety measures and stringent cleaning and disinfecting procedures, whilst receiving stock from farmers and packing these into boxes.

Reactions: Like 4 | Thanks 1


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## Adephi (22/3/20)



Reactions: Like 4 | Winner 1


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## Dela Rey Steyn (22/3/20)



Reactions: Winner 3 | Funny 1


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## Resistance (22/3/20)

Dela Rey Steyn said:


> View attachment 192685


I co-agree

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Adephi (22/3/20)

ARYANTO said:


> Kan nie eers hulle eie gatte ''defend'' nie maar wil Covid keer !
> 
> South African military forces may be deployed to patrol the streets in a bid to stop the spread of the COVID-19 coronavirus. This is according to a report in the *Sunday Times.*
> 
> ...



I don't want to make this sound like I'm attacking you or anybody else. I have seen a lot of posts on fb and comments made about authorities. So I feel this needs to be said.

There's no doubt there are shortcomings in our military, hospitals and government. Nobody can argue against that. But this is not the time to be cynical. Before this is over you might have to rely on them.

This is the situation we are in and its card we are dealt. Nothing we can do about that. 

Instead start looking how you can be part of the solution. If you can sew, start making facemasks to donate to healthworkers. If you are more technical skilled start researching homemade ventilators. Those will run out. And its not a matter of you might save a life. You WILL save a life.

PS: Thank the heavens we don't have Zuma anymore.

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## Silver (22/3/20)

Grand Guru said:


> https://www.latimes.com/science/sto...irus-treatments-where-we-are-and-what-we-know



Thanks @Grand Guru , very interesting

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## Adephi (23/3/20)

A very long article. Won't try to pste the whole thing but it explains very well why we are heading into a lockdown.

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## Hooked (23/3/20)

Silver said:


> Hi all
> 
> Here’s a great article I read earlier. It’s an interview with an epidemiologist who helped fight against smallpox. This guy knows his stuff. What I appreciated about this is the clarity and the high level view.
> 
> ...



Excellent! Thanks for sharing this @Silver!

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## Resistance (23/3/20)

This screenshot taken from something @X-Calibre786 posted and I just realised... countries that has most confirmed cases is in winter or should I rather say spring season. Except for america.
Now I'm wondering what's the worst that can happen seeing that were moving further south soon???

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## stevie g (24/3/20)

It's a load of bullshit.

https://russia-insider.com/en/coron...y-many-others-we-dont-make-fuss-about/ri28444

Reactions: Like 1 | Dislike 1 | Disagree 3


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## alex1501 (24/3/20)

stevie g said:


> It's a load of bullshit.
> 
> https://russia-insider.com/en/coron...y-many-others-we-dont-make-fuss-about/ri28444



Which one, the article or "pandemic"?

Edit: Never mind, found the answer in another post.
Brace yourself, local and international thought police will be after you.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Adephi (24/3/20)

stevie g said:


> It's a load of bullshit.
> 
> https://russia-insider.com/en/coron...y-many-others-we-dont-make-fuss-about/ri28444



I would have agreed with you maybe 2 or 3 weeks ago. 

But after what I have seen in the last 7 days unfold your post is uncalled for. 

And that's me trying to be as nice humanly possible.

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## Adephi (24/3/20)

stevie g said:


> It's a load of bullshit.
> 
> https://russia-insider.com/en/coron...y-many-others-we-dont-make-fuss-about/ri28444



You my friend, are in for a humbling experience these next few weeks.

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## Timwis (24/3/20)

Resistance said:


> View attachment 192791
> 
> This screenshot taken from something @X-Calibre786 posted and I just realised... countries that has most confirmed cases is in winter or should I rather say spring season. Except for america.
> Now I'm wondering what's the worst that can happen seeing that were moving further south soon???


Not correct, It's coming out of winter going into Spring in America also but the theory goes tits up when we look at Australia with 1709 cases unfortunately unlike flu it's not believed the virus is seasonal. Looking at the map on WHO it clearly points to movement of people, a lot of travel between China and Europe is common so this would of happened while many had the virus without knowing during it's incubation period and then travel between Europe and America. This also fits into when it hit in both Europe and America.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Timwis (24/3/20)

stevie g said:


> It's a load of bullshit.
> 
> https://russia-insider.com/en/coron...y-many-others-we-dont-make-fuss-about/ri28444


The stage it has got to in the UK law of average means i personally will have members of family and friends die, if i survive it i will revisit you to let you know what a load of BULLSHIT it really was!!!!!!

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## Timwis (24/3/20)

Latest in UK

Only allowed out for essential items such as food and medicines
Can't be more than two people out together and even then you must be members of the same household
All shops closed except for food and pharmacies
All pubs, clubs, restaurants etc closed
Can't have people around your home or visit other people this includes family
Schools closed
All Exams for 2020 scrapped
All sporting events cancelled
All churches of every religion not to open
Weddings etc cancelled, the only things allowed are funerals
All operations cancelled unless life saving
Evictions made illegal as it's obvious people won't be able to pay rent or mortgage following these measures
Police given new powers of arrest and handing out fines for people and businesses not following these rules

Reactions: Like 1


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## Adephi (24/3/20)

Timwis said:


> Latest in UK
> 
> Only allowed out for essential items such as food and medicines
> Can't be more than two people out together and even then you must be members of the same household
> ...



From Thursday we are pretty much the same. Altough some people don't take it seriously. Military has been assembled today so will see where that leads. Most media think its to babysit civilians during the lockdown. But its really to start planning on where the temporary hospitals will go.

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## Timwis (24/3/20)

Adephi said:


> From Thursday we are pretty much the same. Altough some people don't take it seriously. Military has been assembled today so will see where that leads. Most media think its to babysit civilians during the lockdown. But its really to start planning on where the temporary hospitals will go.


It gives you a fighting chance bringing in these measures early, your government have obviously followed global events and come to the conclusion (correctly in my opinion) drastic measures were implemented far too late in other countries! Your government should be applauded!!

Reactions: Agree 6


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## Adephi (24/3/20)

Timwis said:


> It gives you a fighting chance bringing in these measures early, your government have obviously followed global events and come to the conclusion (correctly in my opinion) drastic measures were implemented far too late in other countries! Your government should be applauded!!



In reality I think the world is going into unchartered territory and nobody got a cheat sheat for it.

But right now, at this very moment, if I had to chose between Donald Trump, Boris Johnson, and Cyril Ramaphosa as a leader, I would wear my Faffie with pride.

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## Timwis (24/3/20)

Adephi said:


> In reality I think the world is going into unchartered territory and nobody got a cheat sheat for it.
> 
> But right now, at this very moment, if I had to chose between Donald Trump, Boris Johnson, and Cyril Ramaphosa as a leader, I would wear my Faffie with pride.


I don't think many would chose Donald Trump in any situation!

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## Grand Guru (24/3/20)

stevie g said:


> It's a load of bullshit.
> 
> https://russia-insider.com/en/coron...y-many-others-we-dont-make-fuss-about/ri28444


Those of us working in healthcare will agree that we all are questioning the denominator and the current official figures of cases. The truth is that most of the countries with the exception of Hong Kong, Taiwan and Singapore did not upscale their testing capacities so the number of positive cases is far less than the reality. So yes the mortality rate may be less than the announced figures. But! This virus is far more contagious than its predecessors and the speed at which it’s spreading is making us look foolish when try to deal with the implications.
Let me give you a concrete example. Bloemfontein’s population counts a little more than half a million people. If 60 percent of the population gets the disease before the spread is naturally controlled then we’re looking at 300K patients of which 60K (20%) Will was need some form of medical care and 15K (5%) will present with critical conditions that require high care, ICU admission with assisted ventilation for a good 2 weeks over the next 6 months.
It goes without saying that we don’t have nearly enough capacity to deal with 1/4 of that figure.
All this is not taking into consideration that people will still have heart attacks, car accidents, strokes and other conditions that will also require intensive care.
This dear sir is going to be life changing experience for most of our healthcare professionals.
Yes, the mortality rate may not be as high but the absolute numbers and the speed at which the disease is spreading and all the psychosocial and economic repercussions will make this such a traumatic experience that will mark our lifetime.
Let’s do our best to protect the most vulnerable amongst us by protecting them from our germs.

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## alex1501 (24/3/20)

*CDC flu stats for the past few years (USA only)*

The overall burden of influenza for the 2014-2015 season was an estimated 30 million influenza illnesses, 14 million influenza-associated medical visits, 591,000 influenza-related hospitalizations, and 51,000 flu-associated deaths.

The overall burden of influenza for the 2015-2016 season was an estimated 24 million influenza illnesses, 11 million influenza-associated medical visits, 280,000 influenza-related hospitalizations, and 23,000 flu-associated deaths.

The overall burden of influenza for the 2016-2017 season was an estimated 29 million influenza illnesses, 14 million influenza-associated medical visits, 500,000 influenza-related hospitalizations, and 38,000 influenza-associated deaths.

The overall burden of influenza for the 2017-2018 season was an estimated 45 million influenza illnesses, 21 million influenza-associated medical visits, 810,000 influenza-related hospitalizations, and 61,000 influenza-associated deaths.

CDC estimates that the burden of illness during the 2018–2019 season included an estimated 35.5 million people getting sick with influenza, 16.5 million people going to a health care provider for their illness, 490,600 hospitalizations, and 34,200 deaths from influenza.

Source: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2018-2019.html


*Investigating the impact of influenza on excess mortality in all ages in Italy during recent seasons (2013/14–2016/17 seasons)*

*Highlights*

In the winter seasons from 2013/14 to 2016/17, an estimated average of 5,290,000 ILI cases occurred in Italy, corresponding to an incidence of 9%.
More than 68,000 deaths attributable to flu epidemics were estimated in the study period.
Italy showed a higher influenza attributable excess mortality compared to other European countries. Especially in the elderly.

*Abstract*

Objectives
In recent years, Italy has been registering peaks in death rates, particularly among the elderly during the winter season. Influenza epidemics have been indicated as one of the potential determinants of such an excess. The objective of our study was to estimate the influenza-attributable contribution to excess mortality during the influenza seasons from 2013/14 to 2016/17 in Italy.

Methods
We used the EuroMomo and the FluMomo methods to estimate the annual trend of influenza-attributable excess death rate by age group. Population data were provided by the National Institute of Statistics, data on influenza like illness and confirmed influenza cases were provided by the National Institutes of Health. As an indicator of weekly influenza activity (IA) we adopted the Goldstein index, which is the product of the percentage of patients seen with influenza-like illness (ILI) and percentage of influenza-positive specimens, in a given week.

Results
We estimated excess deaths of 7,027, 20,259, 15,801 and 24,981 attributable to influenza epidemics in the 2013/14, 2014/15, 2015/16 and 2016/17, respectively, using the Goldstein index. The average annual mortality excess rate per 100,000 ranged from 11.6 to 41.2 with most of the influenza-associated deaths per year registered among the elderly. However children less than 5 years old also reported a relevant influenza attributable excess death rate in the 2014/15 and 2016/17 seasons (1.05/100,000 and 1.54/100,000 respectively).

Conclusions
Over 68,000 deaths were attributable to influenza epidemics in the study period. The observed excess of deaths is not completely unexpected, given the high number of fragile very old subjects living in Italy. In conclusion, the unpredictability of the influenza virus continues to present a major challenge to health professionals and policy makers. Nonetheless, vaccination remains the most effective means for reducing the burden of influenza, and efforts to increase vaccine coverage and the introduction of new vaccine strategies (such as vaccinating healthy children) should be considered to reduce the influenza attributable excess mortality experienced in Italy and in Europe in the last seasons.

Source:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1201971219303285
and respectively:
https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(19)30328-5/fulltext


If I take into consideration that flu vaccines were available and used in the previous seasons and compare those numbers to the cruise ship (Diamond Princess) with no vaccines, closed enviroment, old people and and 1% mortality rate, they look equally deadly.
The same applies if I compare those numbers to the Various covid trackers available today.
With my chronic heart failure, severe flu or covid-19 can kill me (and many others) the very same way. 
Yet I see no reason for people now to start attacking each other over the difference in opinion, or a bundle of toilet paper, except fearmongering pushed by various media outlets and "authorities".
I also can't find a reason for the entire economies to colapse and the whole World to change over night. 
This flu will go away, but the changes, we now accept in fear, will last.
What happens when the next "Big Disaster" strikes?

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## Jean claude Vaaldamme (24/3/20)

The problem with the lockdown. SA economy is really bad so how long can we afford a lockdown? I think this 3 weeks is it, cant go longer, to many poor people. So what happen after three weeks if virus is not contained? Going to town the last week I dont think SA is taking this very serious and dont think lockdown will work at this stage.
Although a noble idea, I think the lockdown came way to early. I hope Im wrong, but I wont keep my hopes up.

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## Dela Rey Steyn (24/3/20)

Jean claude Vaaldamme said:


> The problem with the lockdown. SA economy is really bad so how long can we afford a lockdown? I think this 3 weeks is it, cant go longer, to many poor people. So what happen after three weeks if virus is not contained? Going to town the last week I dont think SA is taking this very serious and dont think lockdown will work at this stage.
> Although a noble idea, I think the lockdown came way to early. I hope Im wrong, but I wont keep my hopes up.



No country can really "afford" a lockdown. The idea behind the lock down is not to contain the virus, but rather to slow the infection rate to a pace that the country can better cope with it. The lockdown should have started a little earlier, but I'm very glad they did not wait any longer. The onus is on us to reach out and support our fellow South Africans that cannot look after themselves. In true South African spirit, we will unite and we will help each other, I believe this with my whole heart. For all our faults, we are a compassionate nation.

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## Resistance (24/3/20)

Timwis said:


> Not correct, It's coming out of winter going into Spring in America also but the theory goes tits up when we look at Australia with 1709 cases unfortunately unlike flu it's not believed the virus is seasonal. Looking at the map on WHO it clearly points to movement of people, a lot of travel between China and Europe is common so this would of happened while many had the virus without knowing during it's incubation period and then travel between Europe and America. This also fits into when it hit in both Europe and America.


Yes. It might have read incorrect but America is also in the same group I mentioned in the northern hemisphere.

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## Jean claude Vaaldamme (24/3/20)

Dela Rey Steyn said:


> No country can really "afford" a lockdown. The idea behind the lock down is not to contain the virus, but rather to slow the infection rate to a pace that the country can better cope with it. The lockdown should have started a little earlier, but I'm very glad they did not wait any longer. The onus is on us to reach out and support our fellow South Africans that cannot look after themselves. In true South African spirit, we will unite and we will help each other, I believe this with my whole heart. For all our faults, we are a compassionate nation.


Yes so after 3 weeks of slowing down, what then? How long can our economy afford to slow down the virus? How long can the world afford to slow down the virus? 
Yes we can write pretty dreams, but in reality we know the state of Eskom, pollution of our water, well actually the state of anything touched by the government. SO why would the handling of this be any different. Will all these emergency funds be used in correct way?

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## Resistance (24/3/20)

Timwis said:


> Not correct, It's coming out of winter going into Spring in America also but the theory goes tits up when we look at Australia with 1709 cases unfortunately unlike flu it's not believed the virus is seasonal. Looking at the map on WHO it clearly points to movement of people, a lot of travel between China and Europe is common so this would of happened while many had the virus without knowing during it's incubation period and then travel between Europe and America. This also fits into when it hit in both Europe and America.


Yup. Australia is also coming out of summer into autumn .that's also seeing that they have autum and winter because they never leave the southern hemisphere It wasn't a theory, it was an observation based on the pic.
The other thing is they have slot of traffic to and from China so that might have given them the power up into the big leagues.
Still not a theory. On just an observation.

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## Dela Rey Steyn (24/3/20)

Jean claude Vaaldamme said:


> Yes so after 3 weeks of slowing down, what then? How long can our economy afford to slow down the virus? How long can the world afford to slow down the virus?
> Yes we can write pretty dreams, but in reality we know the state of Eskom, pollution of our water, well actually the state of anything touched by the government. SO why would the handling of this be any different. Will all these emergency funds be used in correct way?



We can't afford the lockdown, but the cost of the lockdown is way better in the long run than a total collapse of the system. You seem the have a generally negative outlook for our country, probably like a lot of people in the country. But honestly, it really is not that bad. To some,we have had better, which is a matter of perception . but there are plenty of countries that are worse off than us. Our country is not perfect, no country is, all of them have shortcomings, crooked politicians and are failing in some sector or the other. The easiest thing to change is our OWN mindset and how we treat our situation.

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## Jean claude Vaaldamme (24/3/20)

Dela Rey Steyn said:


> We can't afford the lockdown, but the cost of the lockdown is way better in the long run than a total collapse of the system. You seem the have a generally negative outlook for our country, probably like a lot of people in the country. But honestly, it really is not that bad. To some,we have had better, which is a matter of perception . but there are plenty of countries that are worse off than us. Our country is not perfect, no country is, all of them have shortcomings, crooked politicians and are failing in some sector or the other. The easiest thing to change is our OWN mindset and how we treat our situation.


Yes thats true. But every month there are fewer countries that are worse off than us. One of these days we will be at the bottom. nothing ever happen to stop, improve or even stabilize the downward spiral.

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## Dela Rey Steyn (24/3/20)

Jean claude Vaaldamme said:


> Yes thats true. But every month there are fewer countries that are worse off than us. One of these days we will be at the bottom. nothing ever happen to stop, improve or even stabilize the downward spiral.



"_*Yes thats true. But every month there are fewer countries that are worse off than us.*_" That is a very bold and cynical statement. I would love to know what information you are basing this on. I understand you have your reasons and I respect your opinions. I just can't see our country through your eyes at this moment in time.

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## Timwis (24/3/20)

Resistance said:


> Yup. Australia is also coming out of summer into autumn .that's also seeing that they have autum and winter because they never leave the southern hemisphere It wasn't a theory, it was an observation based on the pic.
> The other thing is they have slot of traffic to and from China so that might have given them the power up into the big leagues.
> Still not a theory. On just an observation.


Exactly a lot of movement between Australia and China exactly my point it's movement of people not to do with the temperature, the average temperature in Australia at the moment would be a hot summers day in the UK when flu like viruses die but isn't proven the case with the Covid -19. New Zealand are behind Australia but again it's the same movement of people pattern, China to Australia then Australia to New Zealand. I hope it can be halted by temperature that would mean give it a month and we will be ok in the UK but then minimum temperature is 25 Celsius in Darwin max of 31 so looks unlikely!

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## Jean claude Vaaldamme (24/3/20)

Dela Rey Steyn said:


> "_*Yes thats true. But every month there are fewer countries that are worse off than us.*_" That is a very bold and cynical statement. I would love to know what information you are basing this on. I understand you have your reasons and I respect your opinions. I just can't see our country through your eyes at this moment in time.


well thats easy, dont need any statistics for that. Simple question, over the last 20 years has the economy, infrastructure, education, health services, etc improved, stabilized or going backwards?
Only thing improving is corruption.

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## Dela Rey Steyn (24/3/20)

Jean claude Vaaldamme said:


> well thats easy, dont need any statistics for that. Simple question, over the last 20 years has the economy, infrastructure, education, health services, etc improved, stabilized or going backwards?
> Only thing improving is corruption.



I don't want to derail this thread into a debate. In the last 20 years, the population has had an unprecedented boom. and a lot more services have been made available to a plethora of people. Our infrastructure might not be up to standard, but it is at least there to provide services to the masses as best it can. Apart from the "zuma" years, our country has been pretty damn stable. A lot more issues world wide. Corruption is prolific everywhere at numbers much higher than SA. Where there is money, there will be corruption and theft, in any country.

This is my last post on this matter, because it is no longer pertaining to the Original thread.

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## Grand Guru (24/3/20)

@Resistance is making a valid point @Timwis. Eventhough this virus will inevitably spread independently from the season but this virus like any other airborne infection spreads faster in winter because people tend to stay indoors, reduce ventilation and gather around the TV and the heater....

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## Timwis (24/3/20)

Grand Guru said:


> @Resistance is making a valid point @Timwis. Eventhough this virus will inevitably spread independently from the season but this virus like any other airborne infection spreads faster in winter because people tend to stay indoors, reduce ventilation and gather around the TV and the heater....


Which makes lockdown pointless because that's exactly what it basically means.

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## Timwis (24/3/20)

Timwis said:


> Which makes lockdown pointless because that's exactly what it basically means.


My point is looking at the map it follows a pattern of natural common travel which explains why despite being in the Southern Hemisphere it's already well established in Australia because there is a lot of travel between Australia and China as @Resistance pointed out.

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## Grand Guru (24/3/20)

Timwis said:


> My point is looking at the map it follows a pattern of natural common travel which explains why despite being in the Southern Hemisphere it's already well established in Australia because there is a lot of travel between Australia and China as @Resistance pointed out.


Your point is definitely valid too. In the 1st WW, the Spanish flue was spread by the movement of the army.... 
Confinement isn't pointless as it restricts your contacts to your close family, makes tracing and testing easier and you interact with far less people. No public transport, no coffee shops, no malls etc.

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## Resistance (24/3/20)

Jean claude Vaaldamme said:


> well thats easy, dont need any statistics for that. Simple question, over the last 20 years has the economy, infrastructure, education, health services, etc improved, stabilized or going backwards?
> Only thing improving is corruption.


If any of our previous 26 years presidents and affiliates did anything right. This lockdown would be it.
My reasoning is the economic infrastructure can be rebuilt. Even burying someone costs money and every life matters even the man on the street.

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## Resistance (24/3/20)

Grand Guru said:


> Your point is definitely valid too. In the 1st WW, the Spanish flue was spread by the movement of the army....
> Confinement isn't pointless as it restricts your contacts to your close family, makes tracing and testing easier and you interact with far less people. No public transport, no coffee shops, no malls etc.



And if you have contracted the virus there will be less people to treat as most of them would be in the close vicinity or in surrounding areas. Where as if it's contracted at the mall each person would go their own way and infecting more people on the way till they reach their destination. 
Same as it was spread now making it harder to contain to a specific area.

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## Resistance (24/3/20)

https://news-af.feednews.com/news/detail/cea920095aeaee94e27464f5b84470ae?client=news
I'm not going to open another thread, I thought we isolate all the virus discussions in one thread. If I'm wrong in my thinking then please move. Thankx

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## Resistance (24/3/20)




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## Grand Guru (24/3/20)

Resistance said:


> https://news-af.feednews.com/news/detail/cea920095aeaee94e27464f5b84470ae?client=news
> I'm not going to open another thread, I thought we isolate all the virus discussions in one thread. If I'm wrong in my thinking then please move. Thankx


This virus is not contagious  you scared me !

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## Resistance (24/3/20)

Grand Guru said:


> This virus is not contagious  you scared me !


No, its only by contact that you can get it.
The problem is this is that it's out there, comes from the same region and it's flooding my news feed.
So is it something to worry about or can it be overcome with little impact.

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## Grand Guru (24/3/20)

Resistance said:


> No, its only by contact that you can get it.
> The problem is this is that it's out there, comes from the same region and it's flooding my news feed.
> So is it something to worry about or can it be overcome with little impact.


With transmission between humans close to nil, there’s nothing to worry about.

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## MTL (25/3/20)

for now we should be at

almost 7k deaths 
more than 8k healed
almost 70k infected

KEEP IN MIND: in these 7k we count not only people who died BY the virus, but also everyone who died with the virus even for other reasons like heart attack, embolism etc who has almost nothing to do with the virus)

we ALMOST stabilized the situation even if people keep dying, few hours ago started the third day with a degrowth for both deaths and infected

this was the situation march 7

5k infected
200 deaths

for now we can't leave our houses (except for buy food) and only walk animals for not more than 200 meters far from house, every shop is closed expect groceries pharmacies, tobacco and vape shop, until it works the best we can do is stay at home

if u don't make all the errors we made like waiting the last minute for quarantine, not having masks, laughting about the virus etc u should have no problem to beat it

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## Resistance (25/3/20)

Just a thought!
Money needs to be disinfected.
I'm not going to explain my reasoning, but common sense tells me I should do this.

(A colleague of mine refused to bump elbows(greeting), but was willing to receive money in his hand.)

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## Timwis (25/3/20)

Resistance said:


> Just a thought!
> Money needs to be disinfected.
> I'm not going to explain my reasoning, but common sense tells me I should do this.


Yes one of the common ways the virus can spread, in the UK we are not disinfecting money though we use our brains and pay by card, i haven't handled cash in weeks! Wouldn't know the situation in SA but any income has to be paid into a bank account and even those that don't have credit cards have debit cards so in theory we don't actually need cash we simply pay by contactless debit card! Any cash i have at my home from before all this happened even if it was infected will already be fine as soft surfaces (notes) the virus only lives up to 72hours and while it's longer on coins i haven't touched that money for weeks so it will be virus free!

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## Timwis (25/3/20)

Resistance said:


> Just a thought!
> Money needs to be disinfected.
> I'm not going to explain my reasoning, but common sense tells me I should do this.
> 
> (A colleague of mine refused to bump elbows(greeting), but was willing to receive money in his hand.)


My biggest worry on how i can catch it is when i go food shopping, even if you keep your distant successfully i bet every can of food, every packet and all the fresh produce, in fact everything would of been handled by several people or worse someone with the virus has sneezed or coughed near it, problem is it's invisible and a lot are infected. How many are infected is much higher than the stats say which is bad news from the virus spreading point of view but i suppose good news as it does make the mortality rate lower than stated. I base this on in the UK we have been told if we have any symptoms to self isolate for 7 days and those you live with 14 days but it's only if medical treatment is actually needed would i be tested and become a statistic!

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## Resistance (25/3/20)

Timwis said:


> Yes one of the common ways the virus can spread, in the UK we are not disinfecting money though we use our brains and pay by card, i haven't handled cash in weeks! Wouldn't know the situation in SA but any income has to be paid into a bank account and even those that don't have credit cards have debit cards so in theory we don't actually need cash we simply pay by contactless debit card! Any cash i have at my home from before all this happened even if it was infected will already be fine as soft surfaces (notes) the virus only lives up to 72hours and while it's longer on coins i haven't touched that money for weeks so it will be virus free!



Swiping a card, I wouldn't trust either. The food cans is a worry but I always walk with the disinfectant cloths available to clean our shopping trolleys long before this issue. Especially when I handle raw meat packs/portions in supermarkets

Reactions: Like 1


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## Adephi (25/3/20)

So the one time in history nobody can drink and drive they take away the booze..

This video just for research and reference porposes.

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Timwis (25/3/20)

Resistance said:


> Swiping a card, I wouldn't trust either. The food cans is a worry but I always walk with the disinfectant cloths available to clean our shopping trolleys long before this issue. Especially when I handle raw meat packs/portions in supermarkets


Swiping a card? we have contactless, just point the card at the machine, don't even need to enter a pin number so what's not to trust, nothings touched? the only thing you need touch is your own card which no one else touches.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Timwis (25/3/20)

Adephi said:


> So the one time in history nobody can drink and drive they take away the booze..
> 
> This video just for research and reference porposes.



So as well as e-liquid and vaping devices your supermarkets don't sell booze, our supermarkets have massive alcohol sections?


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## Adephi (25/3/20)

Timwis said:


> So as well as e-liquid and vaping devices your supermarkets don't sell booze, our supermarkets have massive alcohol sections?



Mostly wine are sold in supermarkets. The bottlestores are mostly next to the supermarket but they will be locked down. Only bare necessities are allowed to be sold. You can't even buy pool chlorine.

They blocked cigarettes sales as well. So I think vape juice will also not be allowed to be sold.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Timwis (25/3/20)

Adephi said:


> Mostly wine are sold in supermarkets. The bottlestores are mostly next to the supermarket but they will be locked down. Only bare necessities are allowed to be sold. You can't even buy pool chlorine.
> 
> They blocked cigarettes sales as well. So I think vape juice will also not be allowed to be sold.


In UK only pharmacies and Supermarkets are open but they are not restricted on what they sell, that seems completely pointless! That seems p***ing people off just for the sake of p***ing people off! I agree with the principle of a lockdown but if supermarkets are open they are open anyway so that just sounds like a nanny state, does government officials go round wiping peoples ar*es for them as well? We get post and couriers as well as they are classed as keyworkers, does SAPO still operate?

Reactions: Optimistic 1


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## Adephi (25/3/20)

Timwis said:


> In UK only pharmacies and Supermarkets are open but they are not restricted on what they sell, that seems completely pointless! That seems p***ing people off just for the sake of p***ing people off! I agree with the principle of a lockdown but if supermarkets are open they are open anyway so that just sounds like a nanny state, does government officials go round wiping peoples ar*es for them as well? We get post and couriers as well as they are classed as keyworkers, does SAPO still operate?


Nope. No mail. Even home affairs are closed.

I think they want to limit the time people spend in shops. But now tomorrow you will have millions of people flocking to do panic shopping. That doesn't really help to stop the spreading of the virus.

Reactions: Agree 4


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## Timwis (25/3/20)

Adephi said:


> Nope. No mail. Even home affairs are closed.
> 
> I think they want to limit the time people spend in shops. But now tomorrow you will have millions of people flocking to do panic shopping. That doesn't really help to stop the spreading of the virus.


In theory i was supposed to be getting the new Pearl Jam album on 27th from my wife as a day's late birthday present but not sure if it'e release outside the US is going to be delayed but if it does hit the country even our supermarket will have it, fingers crossed! I have orchestrated things so i will need food Friday!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Adephi (25/3/20)

Timwis said:


> In theory i was supposed to be getting the new Pearl Jam album on 27th from my wife as a day's late birthday present but not sure if it'e release outside the US is going to be delayed but if it does hit the country even our supermarket will have it, fingers crossed! I have orchestrated things so i will need food Friday!



With kids in the house I have stopped buying any CD's, LP's or DVD's. All streaming for me.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## Timwis (25/3/20)

Adephi said:


> With kids in the house I have stopped buying any CD's, LP's or DVD's. All streaming for me.


Kids grown up but even when mine was young still preferred the physical tactile CD, vinyl etc just kept out of reach. Don't know if you pay for streaming services where the musicians get what's due for listening to their creations but i know some who claim to be fans of bands yet have just free downloaded albums, the bands want class them as fans but thieves!


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## Adephi (25/3/20)

Timwis said:


> Kids grown up but even when mine was young still preferred the physical tactile CD, vinyl etc just kept out of reach. Don't know if you pay for streaming services where the musicians get what's due for listening to their creations but i know some who claim to be fans of bands yet have just free downloaded albums, the bands want class them as fans but thieves!



Mainly Youtube and Spotify. Stopped torrenting music a while ago due to always running out of space.


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## Adephi (26/3/20)

@Grand Guru and all the other fellow essential workers

Reactions: Winner 2 | Funny 3


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## Room Fogger (26/3/20)

Timwis said:


> In UK only pharmacies and Supermarkets are open but they are not restricted on what they sell, that seems completely pointless! That seems p***ing people off just for the sake of p***ing people off! I agree with the principle of a lockdown but if supermarkets are open they are open anyway so that just sounds like a nanny state, does government officials go round wiping peoples ar*es for them as well? We get post and couriers as well as they are classed as keyworkers, does SAPO still operate?


I’m only rated this optimistic as SAPO doesn’t even function under normal circumstances, as for the rest, ja well

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## Timwis (26/3/20)

Room Fogger said:


> I’m only rated this optimistic as SAPO doesn’t even function under normal circumstances, as for the rest, ja well


So really as far as SAPO is concerned it's pretty much business as usual! lol

Reactions: Agree 4 | Funny 1


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## Chickenstrip (26/3/20)

Woah, wayda derail lads. On a side note... Arrrrg, torrents till I die. This is the day you will always remember as the day you ALMOST caught *Captain Jack Sparrow*.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Timwis (26/3/20)

Chickenstrip said:


> Woah, wayda derail lads. On a side note... Arrrrg, torrents till I die. This is the day you will always remember as the day you ALMOST caught *Captain Jack Sparrow*.


If that's paid torrent sites agreed with the music industry where the artists get paid that's fine but if it's free file sharing as a "TRUE MUSIC FAN" then to me that's no different to shop lifting or burglary.


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## Chickenstrip (26/3/20)

Timwis said:


> If that's paid torrent sites agreed with the music industry where the artists get paid that's fine but if it's free file sharing as a "TRUE MUSIC FAN" then to me that's no different to shop lifting or burglary.



As a programmer/ Captain of the 7 sea's... I strongly disagree. But to each their own.

Ps if you go look up research on torrenting it's been proven that torrenting raises awareness and thusly increases sales and revenue for ALL programs/music/games etc. Once "pirates" are capable of paying for their desired "things" they generally end up doing just that in an attempt to support the creator. 

But were we not discussing WW3 / the latest pandemic?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Timwis (26/3/20)

I am aware of research but if you had said you use torrents to see if an album was any good before purchasing or to discover new artists that you then would fund by paying for their music then that's great and you may do that so no issue but it sounded from your response you just download music and get it for free so even the case for torrents unfortunately will have those that just take advantage just after free music with no intentions of funding the artists they are quite happily listening too and storing their material.


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## Adephi (26/3/20)

Timwis said:


> In theory i was supposed to be getting the new Pearl Jam album on 27th from my wife as a day's late birthday present but not sure if it'e release outside the US is going to be delayed but if it does hit the country even our supermarket will have it, fingers crossed! I have orchestrated things so i will need food Friday!


Happy B'day @Timwis

Reactions: Winner 2


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## Timwis (26/3/20)

Timwis said:


> I am aware of research but if you had said you use torrents to see if an album was any good before purchasing or to discover new artists that you then would fund by paying for their music then that's great and you may do that so no issue but it sounded from your response you just download music and get it for free so even the case for torrents unfortunately will have those that just take advantage just after free music with no intentions of funding the artists they are quite happily listening too and storing their material. People feel strongly about different things and my view is such people are scum!





Adephi said:


> Happy B'day @Timwis



Thanks, got that from Pearl Jam Yesterday, at 49 i really shouldn't be getting so excited over an album release but it's been too long!

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Silver (26/3/20)

Hi guys, let’s keep this thread on topic

If you want to discuss other things, feel free to make a new thread for it

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Timwis (26/3/20)

Silver said:


> Hi guys, let’s keep this thread on topic
> 
> If you want to discuss other things, feel free to make a new thread for it


Sorry @Silver it did start that way about what was available at Supermarkets during lockdown between SA and UK and things tend to take a turn lol!

Reactions: Like 2


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## Resistance (26/3/20)

Timwis said:


> Swiping a card? we have contactless, just point the card at the machine, don't even need to enter a pin number so what's not to trust, nothings touched? the only thing you need touch is your own card which no one else touches.



Due to unforeseen scamming tricks, my tap and go has been cancelled. I paid once with the card still in my wallet in my pocket and that's not kosher!
So to avoid walking past a scammer and realising you have just bought a car and don't own it, I'd rather swipe or pay cash and EFT. Tapping is a big NO!

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Funny 1


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## Resistance (27/3/20)

Hi guys. S.A have now entered Stats. Two victims of the corona virus have just been announced.
And both in the Western Cape.

Reactions: Informative 4


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## Ruwaid (27/3/20)

Resistance said:


> Hi guys. S.A have now entered Stats. Two victims of the corona virus have just been announced.
> And both in the Western Cape.


 First two deaths due to the virus have now been reported. Both deaths in the WC

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Informative 1


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## ARYANTO (27/3/20)

Well I forsee the numbers are still going to escalate - people here just cruize the street and have little Imbizo's
on the corners , so if it don't work in s/burbs what about squatter camps , think they will sit in their little houses? And its only day 1 -anybody have a number to report incidents to ?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Raindance (27/3/20)

ARYANTO said:


> Well I forsee the numbers are still going to escalate - people here just cruize the street and have little Imbizo's
> on the corners , so if it don't work in s/burbs what about squatter camps , think they will sit in their little houses? And its only day 1 -anybody have a number to report incidents to ?






Thats what I've got.

Regards

Reactions: Agree 2 | Winner 1


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## Ruwaid (27/3/20)

ARYANTO said:


> Well I forsee the numbers are still going to escalate - people here just cruize the street and have little Imbizo's
> on the corners , so if it don't work in s/burbs what about squatter camps , think they will sit in their little houses? And its only day 1 -anybody have a number to report incidents to ?


 That's a given! No doubt about the confirmed numbers shooting through the ceiling. The two that died in WC were *28* and *48*. Youth want to cruise around thinking they safe!! Check how we tracking against Italy when comparing the timeline. Italy went from 2 to 400 in 26 days. SA from 1 case to 557 in 19 days.

Our great grandparents/grandparents were called to war to defend their people...all we need to do is sit on our ar$e$ and watch TV but even that's too hard!!?? Sorry but its really disappointing and frustrating because the actions of the irresponsible affects us ALL.

Reactions: Agree 4 | Winner 1


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## Timwis (27/3/20)

Problem is a lot of us will have it but so mild we don't realise or symptoms still yet to emerge. In the UK we are now getting over 100 deaths a day and those testing positive pretty much match those that have been tested because unless rich or famous or both people only get tested if hospitalised, and so many of those that are getting tested privately for peace of mind are coming back as positive. Even Prince Charles and now Boris Johnson have it!
So when it says 10.000 in UK have tested positive it has to also be pointed out only about 10.000 have even been tested, millions of us have it here including probably me hard to tell because i always feel lethargic and have a dry throat, bit of a cough etc anyway!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Timwis (27/3/20)

Ruwaid said:


> That's a given! No doubt about the confirmed numbers shooting through the ceiling. The two that died in WC were *28* and *48*. Youth want to cruise around thinking they safe!! Check how we tracking against Italy when comparing the timeline. Italy went from 2 to 400 in 26 days. SA from 1 case to 557 in 19 days.
> 
> Our great grandparents/grandparents were called to war to defend their people...all we need to do is sit on our ar$e$ and watch TV but even that's too hard!!?? Sorry but its really disappointing and frustrating because the actions of the irresponsible affects us ALL.


The age of those two deaths would really worry me because in other countries people that young are not dying!

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Ruwaid (27/3/20)

Timwis said:


> The age of those two deaths would really worry me because in other countries people that young are not dying!


 I was so eager to know their ages as well this morning and when I saw it we were terrified. Viruses too evolve! Not saying those two unfortunate people had hectic underlying conditions, but they young and one quite young!

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Ruwaid (27/3/20)

Timwis said:


> Problem is a lot of us will have it but so mild we don't realise or symptoms still yet to emerge. In the UK we are now getting over 100 deaths a day and those testing positive pretty much match those that have been tested because unless rich or famous or both people only get tested if hospitalised, and so many of those that are getting tested privately for peace of mind are coming back as positive. Even Prince Charles and now Boris Johnson have it!
> So when it says 10.000 in UK have tested positive it has to also be pointed out only about 10.000 have even been tested, millions of us have it here including probably me hard to tell because i always feel lethargic and have a dry throat, bit of a cough etc anyway!


 To support your first paragraph, China have been doing extensive research and studies on this and what THEY found is that 4 out of 5 people that transmitted the virus didn't even know they had it.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Silver (27/3/20)

Ruwaid said:


> To support your first paragraph, China have been doing extensive research and studies on this and what THEY found is that 4 out of 5 people that transmitted the virus didn't even know they had it.



That is a big problem @Ruwaid 
Scary

I suppose one just needs to be extra careful and assume that anyone you see nearby may have the Coronavirus.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Ruwaid (27/3/20)

Silver said:


> That is a big problem @Ruwaid
> Scary
> 
> I suppose one just needs to be extra careful and assume that anyone you see nearby may have the Coronavirus.



Exactly what you said @Silver Was watching a press release and one of the overseas Prime Ministers said one of the best things we could do now to help is act/believe that everyone around you is infected. Sad, scary and many would say drastic but ignorance could lead to that reality![/USER]

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## Timwis (27/3/20)

That's my lockdown boredom sorted for this time next week!

Reactions: Winner 3


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## Silver (27/3/20)

Ruwaid said:


> Exactly what you said @Silver Was watching a press release and one of the overseas Prime Ministers said one of the best things we could do now to help is act/believe that everyone around you is infected. Sad, scary and many would say drastic but ignorance could lead to that reality![/USER]



If you stay at home and get food delivered (not so convenient because delivery lead times are long) then you dont need to come into contact with anyone else. And when the delivery arrives, you just stand back

But if you go out then I think it becomes more tricky

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## Ruwaid (27/3/20)

To add...just make sure you reheat your take away as well! The excessive heat will kill off any germs/virus

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## Timwis (27/3/20)

Ruwaid said:


> To add...just make sure you reheat your take away as well! The excessive heat will kill off any germs/virus


Sure i read somewhere a while back hot curries and Chile dishes also do the job! All that research into a vaccine when we can simply order a Vindaloo!

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Timwis (27/3/20)

UK latest figures released for period 5pm Wednesday to 5pm Thursday, 188 deaths in 24hr period, at current trend in a weeks time it will be over 1000 in a day!

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Grand Guru (27/3/20)

Saying that the average age of people in Italy is 79.8 years doesn’t mean that there will be youngsters affected at all but there will be a few cases here and there. For instance, a small child died from Covid19 in France and the media was only talking about that case... the most vulnerable population will still remain the elderly with heavy medical conditions.
50 to 70% of the population are going to contract the infection at some point in time. It’s about time that we realize that every second person is going to have it and that if you’re ok then the person sitting next to you is most likely infected so behave bearing that in mind!

Reactions: Like 2 | Informative 1


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## Grand Guru (27/3/20)

Ruwaid said:


> To add...just make sure you reheat your take away as well! The excessive heat will kill off any germs/virus


All you need is 63 degrees Celsius for 4 minutes and the virus is dead.

Reactions: Like 2 | Informative 3


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## ARYANTO (27/3/20)

Silver said:


> If you stay at home and get food delivered (not so convenient because delivery lead times are long) then you dont need to come into contact with anyone else. And when the delivery arrives, you just stand back
> 
> But if you go out then I think it becomes more tricky


Who delivers food ?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Silver (27/3/20)

ARYANTO said:


> Who delivers food ?



Pick n Pay and Woolies
But as I say, lead times are now quite long, about 2 weeks for Woolies
Hopefully it will come down soon

Reactions: Agree 1 | Informative 1 | Useful 1


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## Silver (27/3/20)

Just a question for those in the know

How many high care / ICU beds do we have in SA in total?
How many confirmed Coronavirus cases do we need before we run out of space?

Are my estimates wrong here?
If we get 80k cases and say 5% need high care or ICU, then that’s 4,000 required
Do we have 4,000 unused spots at the moment?

Scary stuff especially if you have elderly people in the family or people with pre-existing conditions.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Hooked (27/3/20)

ARYANTO said:


> Well I forsee the numbers are still going to escalate - people here just cruize the street and have little Imbizo's
> on the corners , so if it don't work in s/burbs what about squatter camps , think they will sit in their little houses? And its only day 1 -anybody have a number to report incidents to ?



Ask your local N/Watch or local SAPS who to report to. We had two people walking their dogs this morning and they were reported to our one and only local SAPS officer, who came hurtling down the road at top speed. A pic was also taken of them and posted on our local FB groups! People here are keeping a beady eye on the streets .

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 2


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## Room Fogger (27/3/20)

Silver said:


> Just a question for those in the know
> 
> How many high care / ICU beds do we have in SA in total?
> How many confirmed cases do we need before we run out of space?
> ...


I’m not in the know but this was an article published about 7 days ago.

https://m.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Ne...-beds-available-and-it-is-not-enough-20200320

This is scary, and to see how people are behaving is atrocious, just watched a unsubstantiated video from Spain stating that anyone critical with Covid19 that is over 65 is being taken off ventilators and sedated until they pass, to use them for younger patients with a better chance. My heart goes out to them, words cannot describe the feeling I have. Think what is going to happen here when it hits the fan fully.

My mother is 76 and living with me, ...............

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## Resistance (27/3/20)

Room Fogger said:


> I’m not in the know but this was an article published about 7 days ago.
> 
> https://m.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Ne...-beds-available-and-it-is-not-enough-20200320
> 
> ...


Keep her close bro.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Thanks 1


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## Resistance (27/3/20)

Did anyone else hear the recent theory about this pandemic.
That it was a failed experiment involving soldiers ???


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## Hooked (27/3/20)

Silver said:


> Just a question for those in the know
> 
> How many high care / ICU beds do we have in SA in total?
> How many confirmed Coronavirus cases do we need before we run out of space?
> ...



@Silver I was told by someone whose family member is Head of XXX at a hospital, that there are only 5,000 ICU beds available *throughout South Africa* .

EDIT: Although this isn't relevant to your question, the Head of XXX also said that they have discharged patients who should not have been discharged, so as to free up beds and staff.

Reactions: Like 2 | Thanks 1


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## Hooked (27/3/20)

Room Fogger said:


> I’m not in the know but this was an article published about 7 days ago.
> 
> https://m.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Ne...-beds-available-and-it-is-not-enough-20200320
> 
> ...



Take extra, extra care when you go out @Room Fogger, so as to protect her as much as possible. I've also heard of what is happening in Spain and that the doctors have to play G-d, deciding who is going to live or die. Think of the trauma the doctors must be going through, having to make those decisions!

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Silver (27/3/20)

Room Fogger said:


> I’m not in the know but this was an article published about 7 days ago.
> 
> https://m.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Ne...-beds-available-and-it-is-not-enough-20200320
> 
> ...



Many thanks @Room Fogger , that article was super
Gives a good idea
So there may be 5000 icu and high care beds, but the question is how many of those are available
So if it’s 3,000 as the article refers to and that correlates with @Hooked ’s contact’s 5,000 (thanks for that too Hooked), then if 5% need this sort of care, we would need to hit around 60,000 cases for there to be big problems

We on 1,000 or so now
And last I checked it was compounding at about 30% per day.
So if that sort of rate continues, we would reach 60,000 in about 16 days time

Let’s just pray the lockdown can slow this down radically

Yikes, when you look at the numbers it’s so scary!

All I know is I would not like to be needing high care or icu in a few week’s time 

PS - I suppose the extra worry is that the 1,000 cases we have now are just of those that have been tested. There are probably way more than that who are infected at present. I.e the true cases. So we could reach crunch time from a capacity point of view much earlier than 16 days. Oh my word.

PPS - pray the lockdown works

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


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## Adephi (27/3/20)

Silver said:


> Just a question for those in the know
> 
> How many high care / ICU beds do we have in SA in total?
> How many confirmed Coronavirus cases do we need before we run out of space?
> ...



On a previous post I showed hou played with numbers and at a very light infection rate Centurion will be about 10k beds short. The current hospitals in the area can maybe squeeze out 1k beds without any other cases apart from Covid-19. We didn't even go as far as ICU beds. At this stage we need to look at how many hospital tents the military needs to erect. And after what we've been seeing this week with the shops overcrowded and parties being held in townships I would not be surprised if we reach 20% by next weekend.

Start getting that old camping mattress out thats been lying in the garage. They might call for donations.

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## Hooked (27/3/20)

Silver said:


> Many thanks @Room Fogger , that article was super
> Gives a good idea
> So there may be 5000 icu and high care beds, but the question is how many of those are available
> So if it’s 3,000 as the article refers to and that correlates with @Hooked ’s contact’s 5,000 (thanks for that too Hooked), then if 5% need this sort of care, we would need to hit around 60,000 cases for there to be big problems
> ...



@Silver I've been keeping a record, but I started only on 22 March (the first case was reported on 5 March.) Neverthelss , this is what the figures show so far, if my calculations are correct.

EDIT: For those who don't read Excel, in the past 6 days, cases have increased on average of 34% per day. The average overall increase from 22 March to 27 March has been 235%

Reactions: Thanks 2 | Informative 1


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## Silver (27/3/20)

Adephi said:


> On a previous post I showed hou played with numbers and at a very light infection rate Centurion will be about 10k beds short. The current hospitals in the area can maybe squeeze out 1k beds without any other cases apart from Covid-19. We didn't even go as far as ICU beds. At this stage we need to look at how many hospital tents the military needs to erect. And after what we've been seeing this week with the shops overcrowded and parties being held in townships I would not be surprised if we reach 20% by next weekend.
> 
> Start getting that old camping mattress out thats been lying in the garage. They might call for donations.



Thanks @Adephi, truly scary
Bottom line is stay at home , don’t become one of those that might need hospital

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Silver (27/3/20)

Hooked said:


> @Silver I've been keeping a record, but I started only on 22 March (the first case was reported on 5 March.) Neverthelss , this is what the figures show so far, if my calculations are correct.
> 
> EDIT: For those who don't read Excel, in the past 6 days, cases have increased on average of 34% per day. The average overall increase from 22 March to 27 March has been 235%
> 
> View attachment 192994



Thanks @Hooked 
That 17% growth on 27 March is a good figure because it’s well below the growths of previous days
But I suspect there are piles and piles of tests that are still queueing up to be done, so let’s see in the coming days what happens

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Room Fogger (27/3/20)

Hooked said:


> Take extra, extra care when you go out @Room Fogger, so as to protect her as much as possible. I've also heard of what is happening in Spain and that the doctors have to play G-d, deciding who is going to live or die. Think of the trauma the doctors must be going through, having to make those decisions!


I’m glad I’m not in the position they are, but the same may have to happen here soon for our medical staff if people don’t start taking this seriously.

Not planning any excursions specifically for these reasons @Hooked ,  know I may have to go once certain supplies run low, but we’re making do with what we could afford to get at this stage, mostly next months groceries bought early and spare toilet paper  If I had my way will not leave for full 21 days, barring any emergency that may pop up, let’s hope more people wake up and do the same. Luckily my sons are here, and they seem to have inherited some sense as they have both said well rather do without than to go look for trouble. Stay safe everyone, we only get one chance!

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## Adephi (27/3/20)

Hooked said:


> @Silver I've been keeping a record, but I started only on 22 March (the first case was reported on 5 March.) Neverthelss , this is what the figures show so far, if my calculations are correct.
> 
> EDIT: For those who don't read Excel, in the past 6 days, cases have increased on average of 34% per day. The average overall increase from 22 March to 27 March has been 235%
> 
> View attachment 192994



Very roughly increase by double every 2-3 days. That's in line with New York.

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## Adephi (27/3/20)

http://www.3dprintingstore.co.za/pages/corona-face-shield.html

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## Chickenstrip (27/3/20)

The 28 year old I hear was experiencing a pre-existing lung clotting condition.

One of the fatalities was a nurse in the Corona ward at Tygerberg hospital.

Not sure if the nurse was the 40 odd year old or the pre ill 28 year old.

I've also read that it's been highly advised to avoid ibuprofen as it has the potential to exacerbate symptoms.

Can't confirm these as fact so do some research if you'd like.

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## Grand Guru (28/3/20)

Chickenstrip said:


> The 28 year old I hear was experiencing a pre-existing lung clotting condition.
> 
> One of the fatalities was a nurse in the Corona ward at Tygerberg hospital.
> 
> ...


Avoid anti-inflammatories like ibuprofen and do not take prednisone unless prescribed by your treating Dr. Stick to paracetamol.

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## Adephi (28/3/20)

Confirmed by our councilor to be a legit document.

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## Silver (28/3/20)

I have another question which I see very little written about in the articles I have seen

*If someone gets Coronavirus and then recovers, are they then immune to getting it again? And is it correct they cannot transmit the virus once they are fully recovered? *

Reason I ask this is that those that have recovered are ideal to serve to help communities with a whole range of things. Worldwide, many have probably lost jobs, so those who have recovered could maybe help out with support efforts for a while ? Or are those people just sitting at home upset with everything? In a way, these folk are valuable “immune soldiers” that could help in some way based on their experience and profession.

Not seeing anything about this or am I missing something?

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## Ruwaid (28/3/20)

@Silver unfortunately I don't think so bud. No one is immune to this right now before or after contraction. Or rather unknown for now. Many cases overseas of people getting the virus again after recovering from first contraction. I assume if someone built immunities to this virus after first contraction we would also be much much closer to a vaccine but we not.

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## Dela Rey Steyn (28/3/20)

Silver said:


> I have another question which I see very little written about in the articles I have seen
> 
> *If someone gets Coronavirus and then recovers, are they then immune to getting it again? And is it correct they cannot transmit the virus once they are fully recovered? *
> 
> ...



Some unverifiable website claim that monkeys infected with the virus were immune after being originally infected and other websites claimed 2 people from Wuhan were reinfected. but I don't trust the credibility of either website.

Found nothing on the topic from the WHO.

Found this on the CDC website:
_*Q: Can people who recover from COVID-19 be infected again?

A: The immune response to COVID-19 is not yet understood. Patients with MERS-CoV infection are unlikely to be re-infected shortly after they recover, but it is not yet known whether similar immune protection will be observed for patients with COVID-19.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/faq.html*
_
and apart from "news" articles, no further scientific mention of it. Seems the world has not reached a consensus on the matter of reinfection yet

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## Silver (28/3/20)

Thanks @Ruwaid and @Dela Rey Steyn 

This is very disturbing. 

If those who recover from Corona don’t build immunity straight away then the numbers and projections of this pandemic are more complex and potentially way more disastrous.

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## Adephi (28/3/20)

Silver said:


> I have another question which I see very little written about in the articles I have seen
> 
> *If someone gets Coronavirus and then recovers, are they then immune to getting it again? And is it correct they cannot transmit the virus once they are fully recovered? *
> 
> ...



Here's an interview Trevor did with one of Trump's advisors. Not that Trump always listens.

The topic starts at 10:40.



Basically there's no 100% certainty about it because theres no official study done on it. But if we go by previous studies on corona viruses then there should be some form of immunity.

I seriously hope there is otherwise a vaccine won't do anything.

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## Grand Guru (28/3/20)

Once you recover you are still contagious for some time, up to 2 weeks (to be on the safe side). We do acquire immunity to the virus but the question we still have no answer to is how long does it last? Most of e experts agree that it should last you a few months. But! Like everything else in nature there are extremes which may explain the few @ Ruwaid relapse cases. Other things may explain those relapses like false positive results which are inherent to the technique.... 
We are betting our future on this as everyone is waiting for that point in time where herd immunity is acquired so that the disease is “naturally” contained.

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## Timwis (28/3/20)

Grand Guru said:


> Once you recover you are still contagious for some time, up to 2 weeks (to be on the safe side). We do acquire immunity to the virus but the question we still have no answer to is how long does it last? Most of e experts agree that it should last you a few months. But! Like everything else in nature there are extremes which may explain the few @ Ruwaid relapse cases. Other things may explain those relapses like false positive results which are inherent to the technique....
> We are betting our future on this as everyone is waiting for that point in time where herd immunity is acquired so that the disease is “naturally” contained.


But that's the problem different information is being given country to country, from expert to expert etc. We have been told 7 days incubation so [people will have it for 7 days before showing symptoms so hopefully they have been following distancing guidelines and not infected half their neighbourhood directly or indirectly and a further 7 days once symptoms show, if living with anyone who shows symptoms they are suppose to self isolate for a full 14 days to cover the complete period as some people don't have symptoms but act as carriers. Also we are being told the vast majority will only get it once but a few have caught it a second time but this is a low percentage. Even if immune, people can still touch the virus on surfaces get coughed on etc and then touch things themselves to pass the virus on as it's living on them even if immune, they are now saying in the UK it could be 18 months before normality with ups and downs but when all over the way people travel, eat, economies, and even capitalism it'self would of changed forever, the world will be much poorer but some are predicting fairer!

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## Grand Guru (28/3/20)

Timwis said:


> But that's the problem different information is being given country to country, from expert to expert etc. We have been told 7 days incubation so [people will have it for 7 days before showing symptoms so hopefully they have been following distancing guidelines and not infected half their neighbourhood directly or indirectly and a further 7 days once symptoms show, if living with anyone who shows symptoms they are suppose to self isolate for a full 14 days to cover the complete period as some people don't have symptoms but act as carriers. Also we are being told the vast majority will only get it once but a few have caught it a second time but this is a low percentage. Even if immune, people can still touch the virus on surfaces get coughed on etc and then touch things themselves to pass the virus on as it's living on them even if immune, they are now saying in the UK it could be 18 months before normality with ups and downs but when all over the way people travel, eat, economies, and even capitalism it'self would of changed forever, the world will be much poorer but some are predicting fairer!


The truth is that there's no accurate figures that's why it's wise to play it safe... the incubation period is thought to vary between 2 and 20 days. You become non contagious 14 days after the first symptoms appear... all these are estimations... rather take the bigger numbers.

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## Timwis (28/3/20)

Grand Guru said:


> The truth is that there's no accurate figures that's why it's wise to play it safe... the incubation period is thought to vary between 2 and 20 days. You become non contagious 14 days after the first symptoms appear... all these are estimations... rather take the bigger numbers.


I agree to be overcautious, but like i said we are told 7, before you mentioned it i have only heard 14 days mentioned for those that live with someone with symptoms so that's 7 days for while the person with symptoms has it, then 7 days because they could of caught it on the last day the one with initial symptoms was still contagious, of course if during this 7 day period symptoms are shown then it's another 7 days so in theory 21 days max. But i have heard nothing other than 7 days from symptoms showing is the contagion period. And just like on anything (including vaping) i trust Health England's advice above any from any other country, long live the great NHS! Out of interest what resource did you get up to 20 days incubation and 14 days after symptoms? i like to read everything i can about it! But you are absolutely right in regard adding days on for piece of mind, i would find it hard to live with myself if i found out i had passed it on to someone who then died when it could of been avoided!

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## Grand Guru (28/3/20)

Timwis said:


> I agree to be overcautious, but like i said we are told 7, before you mentioned it i have only heard 14 days mentioned for those that live with someone with symptoms so that's 7 days for while the person with symptoms has it, then 7 days because they could of caught it on the last day the one with initial symptoms was still contagious, of course if during this 7 day period symptoms are shown then it's another 7 days so in theory 21 days max. But i have heard nothing other than 7 days from symptoms showing is the contagion period. And just like on anything (including vaping) i trust Health England's advice above any from any other country, long live the great NHS! Out of interest what resource did you get up to 20 days incubation and 14 days after symptoms? i like to read everything i can about it! But you are absolutely right in regard adding days on for piece of mind, i would find it hard to live with myself if i found out i had passed it on to someone who then died when it could of been avoided!


I have been reading since late December and gathering as much info as I can from various sources local, international and obviously from the WHO. Recommendations vary from country to country and it is an acceptable and usual fact. No one is right and no one is wrong... and I agree with you on following your local recommendations. Just remember that their initial response to the outbreak was to let be and await for herd immunity to kick in, then they realized they’re running into a big disaster and started following the WHO recommendations of screening, testing and confinement etc.


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## Timwis (28/3/20)

Grand Guru said:


> I have been reading since late December and gathering as much info as I can from various sources local, international and obviously from the WHO. Recommendations vary from country to country and it is an acceptable and usual fact. No one is right and no one is wrong... and I agree with you on following your local recommendations. Just remember that their initial response to the outbreak was to let be and await for herd immunity to kick in, then they realized they’re running into a big disaster and started following the WHO recommendations of screening, testing and confinement etc.


No that wasn't Health England's recommended response but UK governments, two entirely different things! 49 years of life as taught me never to trust any government or politician, and they still don't follow any screening procedure, unless a politician, royal or celebratory (in other words get tested privately) no one is tested unless they get hospitalised. I was just referring to the incubation and contagion periods as that's new to me despite reading plenty on the WHO website over the last few month i simply asked for a link so i could read it!

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## Hooked (28/3/20)

Silver said:


> Thanks @Hooked
> That 17% growth on 27 March is a good figure because it’s well below the growths of previous days
> But I suspect there are piles and piles of tests that are still queueing up to be done, so let’s see in the coming days what happens



That's the problem @Silver. The figures reflect only the known cases.  As you said, tests waiting to be done, but what is scary is how many people could already have the virus without knowing it? One could be a carrier without having any symptoms whatsoever. Yet one still sees people talking to other people, without anything covering their face. Madness! If you don't have a mask, use a scarf - but cover your mouth and nose. People who wear glasses are lucky, because at least the glasses act as a barrier to droplets getting into the eyes.

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## Hooked (28/3/20)

Hooked said:


> That's the problem @Silver. The figures reflect only the known cases.  As you said, tests waiting to be done, but what is scary is how many people could already have the virus without knowing it? One could be a carrier without having any symptoms whatsoever. Yet one still sees people talking to other people, without anything covering their face. Madness! If you don't have a mask, use a scarf - but cover your mouth and nose. People who wear glasses are lucky, because at least the glasses act as a barrier to droplets getting into the eyes.



EDIT
For the most part, people weren't careful before lockdown, so any one of us could have been infected already.

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## Hooked (28/3/20)

Today only a 1% increase from yesterday, but Dept. of Health (I think it was them) warned that reports have not been received yet.

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## Timwis (29/3/20)

Last 24hr period figures been released for the UK and another daily rise. 260 deaths in just the last 24hour period taking us over a thousand deaths!

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## Silver (29/3/20)

Thanks for the feedback @Hooked 

Scary stuff

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## Resistance (29/3/20)



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## Resistance (29/3/20)

https://covid-ams.operanewsapp.com/vmact/active-web/coronavirus/dist/
Link to real time Stats.

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## Christos (29/3/20)

Something else to ponder @Silver is the preparedness of our medical professionals and people out and about.

I have seen it in the US as well as the photos of our police force and military. The masks and equipment they are using to “avoid” infection is in fact not fit for purpose.
Cotton masks are not effective and I see our police using dust masks which are designed for dust and not for bacteria/ virus particles. 
The shortages in the UK and the US have people making makeshift masks and using substandard equipment for some sort of mental comfort that they will be ok when in fact the equipment used in hospitals doesn’t even meet the WHO minimum requirements.

I don’t think any country took China seriously when they told the world what was happening and asked them to prepare adequately.

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## Jengz (29/3/20)

Christos said:


> Something else to ponder @Silver is the preparedness of our medical professionals and people out and about.
> 
> I have seen it in the US as well as the photos of our police force and military. The masks and equipment they are using to “avoid” infection is in fact not fit for purpose.
> Cotton masks are not effective and I see our police using dust masks which are designed for dust and not for bacteria/ virus particles.
> ...


I agree 100%. We do not even have the necessary sanitary requirements in SA and even if there are decent stuff out there, the prices being charhes are ridiculous. My sister is a Dr and paid R2000 for masks that will probably last her 2 weeks max. This is because she is fearful of the hospitals not being able to provide enough equipment.

If our frontline (medical staff) gets sick then essentially things get even worse. No equipment, lack of facilities and a lack of manpower, this is the reality we face.

I've been up daily researching different ways to make ventilators using 3D print designs etc because its going to be needed asap.

We just have to have faith though, because without that and doing everything in our own capacity to try stop the spread, we have nothing.

Watching videos of Alexandra and the likes is scary. The ignorance, the unwillingness to cooperate, the ultimate struggle of such communities through these trying times, is just sad and terrifying.

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## Silver (29/3/20)

Thanks @Christos and @Jengz

The thing is that amongst all the citizens of SA, we have superbly skilled people, lots of wealth concentrated in various companies / individuals and I believe a genuine will to help one another and get through this (from most people).

The challenge is harnessing all that and focusing it on the issue at hand. And doing it efficiently and effectively. That is not easy.

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## Christos (29/3/20)

Jengz said:


> I agree 100%. We do not even have the necessary sanitary requirements in SA and even if there are decent stuff out there, the prices being charhes are ridiculous. My sister is a Dr and paid R2000 for masks that will probably last her 2 weeks max. This is because she is fearful of the hospitals not being able to provide enough equipment.
> 
> If our frontline (medical staff) gets sick then essentially things get even worse. No equipment, lack of facilities and a lack of manpower, this is the reality we face.
> 
> ...



Here’s a design for a low cost ventilator.

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## Grand Guru (29/3/20)

I do not know what to expect from these unfortunate people. Most of them have no regular income and survive on a day to day basis. They live packed in small shacks where basic sanitation is unavailable. Wait for a few days, when they start starving...
If the government does not mobilize funds to provide these people with basic necessities at least during the lockdown then no one must expect anything from them.

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## leila_mcdonald (29/3/20)

This is really terrible


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## Hooked (29/3/20)

Christos said:


> Something else to ponder @Silver is the preparedness of our medical professionals and people out and about.
> 
> I have seen it in the US as well as the photos of our police force and military. The masks and equipment they are using to “avoid” infection is in fact not fit for purpose.
> Cotton masks are not effective and I see our police using dust masks which are designed for dust and not for bacteria/ virus particles.
> ...



Agree - and the Chinese government didn't take the doctor who first warned them about the virus seriously. He was arrested for social disturbance or something to that effect. Sadly, he too died of the virus.


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## Hooked (29/3/20)

What is really scary is if one needs to go to a hospital for *any* reason now. A friend of mine paid an emergency visit to a hospital on Sunday night (the reason had nothing to do with the virus or respiratory distress).

Her husband was not allowed to even be in the waiting room with her, which was good. However, the waiting room was full. There was no such thing as social distancing. A child who was there was coughing phlegm all over the place. And she had to sit there for 2 hours, waiting for a doctor to see her.

EDIT
When she got home her husband stripped her outside (she's a quadruplegic so unable to do anything for herself), threw all her clothes in the washing machine, disinfected her shoes, then disinfected her from head to toe.

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## Timwis (29/3/20)

Hooked said:


> What is really scary is if one needs to go to a hospital for *any* reason now. A friend of mine paid an emergency visit to a hospital on Sunday night (the reason had nothing to do with the virus or respiratory distress).
> 
> Her husband was not allowed to even be in the waiting room with her, which was good. However, the waiting room was full. There was no such thing as social distancing. A child who was there was coughing phlegm all over the place. And she had to sit there for 2 hours, waiting for a doctor to see her.
> 
> ...


We are not allowed to go to the hospital unless life threatening, in fact all operations including those that were already scheduled were all cancelled a couple of weeks ago so our hospitals pretty much are for the virus only at the moment and even then only if the virus is bad so help with breathing is needed etc.

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## Timwis (29/3/20)

latest UK figures announced, 209 deaths in the last 24hr period, that's now 1,220 UK deaths!

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## Hooked (29/3/20)

Timwis said:


> We are not allowed to go to the hospital unless life threatening, in fact all operations including those that were already scheduled were all cancelled a couple of weeks ago so our hospitals pretty much are for the virus only at the moment and even then only if the virus is bad help with breathing is needed etc.



@Timwis What happens if you absolutely *must* get medical attention then? My friend was in that situation. She wouldn't have gone to Casualties on a Sunday night if it were unnecessary.

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## Timwis (29/3/20)

Hooked said:


> @Timwis What happens if you absolutely *must* get medical attention then? My friend was in that situation. She wouldn't have gone to Casualties on a Sunday night if it were unnecessary.



The attitude in the UK is if it's not life threatening then it's not necessary, whether their are exceptions to the rules i'm not sure but that's the message that's been given out!

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## Resistance (30/3/20)



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## Resistance (30/3/20)

Grand Guru said:


> I do not know what to expect from these unfortunate people. Most of them have no regular income and survive on a day to day basis. They live packed in small shacks where basic sanitation is unavailable. Wait for a few days, when they start starving...
> If the government does not mobilize funds to provide these people with basic necessities at least during the lockdown then no one must expect anything from them.


 What's worse is if anything should happen and these people end up in hospital. The normal lead time/or should I rather say waiting period to see the Dr. In a public hospital was about 4-8 hrs under normal conditions.
(Actually more like 8-12 hrs in reality).
Imagine sitting there with a broken leg or something for all that time. 
I wonder if this virus issue has gotten things to work faster in our hospitals.

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## Grand Guru (30/3/20)

All hospitals are supposed to put up screening mechanisms in place in order to pick suspect cases and isolate them from the rest of the patients. But, with time and seen that local transmission has started, screening will probably become less and less effective.
In any case. People should be called upon to refrain from going to casualty with minor ailments and the usual nonsense... priority should be given to life threatening and limb threatening conditions.

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## Ruwaid (30/3/20)

On a side note...how many of us out here now are reading up or have seen "some" media/talk about the controversy behind it all. Questions posed by a few governments but from the US especially as to how long did the Chinese know about this virus?
Was it really reported/discovered only December 2019 or how long before that did the Chinese government know about it?
How were they able to build an entire hospital in days yet other first world countries are struggling to keep up with what they have, leave alone the added pressure of new cases.
A lab in China something along the lines of Geo.... something was ordered to destroy certain blood samples long before Dec 2019.
Documentary already out (60 Minutes Australia) about a nurse/s (included was a nurse named Ai Fen) that have gone missing due to them willing to expose vital info.
If you guys have Netflix...search for series called My Secret Terrius. Go to Season 1 Episode 10...and around 53 minutes in. Watch them talk about the Corona virus. This series was made in 2018. 
Some are starting to speak of man-made virus, and how major shares around the globe are being bought by the Chinese etc etc...We might know none of that ever but what I do question is how long did the Chinese know about the first few cases and have a strong feeling vital info was withheld from the world that could have helped us all prepare much much better for this pandemic.

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## Hooked (30/3/20)

Ruwaid said:


> On a side note...how many of us out here now are reading up or have seen "some" media/talk about the controversy behind it all. Questions posed by a few governments but from the US especially as to how long did the Chinese know about this virus?
> Was it really reported/discovered only December 2019 or how long before that did the Chinese government know about it?
> How were they able to build an entire hospital in days yet other first world countries are struggling to keep up with what they have, leave alone the added pressure of new cases.
> A lab in China something along the lines of Geo.... something was ordered to destroy certain blood samples long before Dec 2019.
> ...



The Chinese govt. did know, because a doctor warned them and he posted on some kind of social media platform. When the govt. found out they arrested him for disturbing the social order - something that is taboo in China. There was a huge outcry in China when he was arrested and he was subsequently released. Unfortunately he died of the virus ... or so they say.

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## Adephi (30/3/20)

These conspiracy theories are starting to irritate me.

Do people really think China would create a bioweapon that will firstly kill thousands of their own people and force them into a lockdown and then let it spread across the globe that will be seen as an act of war by every single nation on the globe (except Antarctica).

I don't think any leadership is as stupid as that.

People watch way too much tv.

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## Grand Guru (30/3/20)

The first cases were documented towards mid November @Ruwaid. I don’t have any comments on the conspiracy theories but Baron Rothschild said something like “when the blood is shed on the streets, it is time to buy”.

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## Silver (30/3/20)

Hi guys
Is it just me or do the new cases the last few days since lockdown started seem very low?
It was growing at 30% per day, now it’s very slow
Is it the lockdown taking effect so soon ? Or not enough testing being done?

Great news but I a, just trying to understand why

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## Grand Guru (30/3/20)

Silver said:


> Hi guys
> Is it just me or do the new cases the last few days since lockdown started seem very low?
> It was growing at 30% per day, now it’s very slow
> Is it the lockdown taking effect so soon ? Or not enough testing being done?
> ...


The impact of the lockdown can only be felt in 2 weeks time @Silver (the average time of incubation of the disease).

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## M.Adhir (30/3/20)

Silver said:


> Hi guys
> Is it just me or do the new cases the last few days since lockdown started seem very low?
> It was growing at 30% per day, now it’s very slow
> Is it the lockdown taking effect so soon ? Or not enough testing being done?
> ...



I've also heard from people who are at labs. The backlog in just one of the labs is around 5000.

I think we will only see a more accurate representation of the quantity and spread of the infection in about 2 weeks time.

--edit. That figure of 5000 is hearsay at best. Maybe I shouldn't have said that

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## Adephi (30/3/20)

M.Adhir said:


> I've also heard from people who are at labs. The backlog in just one of the labs is around 5000.
> 
> I think we will only see a more accurate representation of the quantity and spread of the infection in about 2 weeks time.



I can confirm there is zero backlog in the private labs. The main delays are logistical due to current transport restrictions.

How things looks at the public labs however I cannot say.

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## M.Adhir (30/3/20)

Adephi said:


> I can confirm there is zero backlog in the private labs. The main delays are logistical due to current transport restrictions.
> 
> How things looks at the public labs however I cannot say.



Noted. And updated my post as well. 
I think we sometimes forget to that we should be careful to not regurgitate info without verifying raw sources etc.

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## Adephi (30/3/20)

M.Adhir said:


> Noted. And updated my post as well.
> I think we sometimes forget to that we should be careful to not regurgitate info without verifying raw sources etc.



No, no worries. Was not aimed at you.

I know the minister has been saying the delay in results are due to private laboratories. And also mentioned the figure of 5000 samples.

But that simply is not true.

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## Silver (30/3/20)

Adephi said:


> No, no worries. Was not aimed at you.
> 
> I know the minister has been saying the delay in results are due to private laboratories. And also mentioned the figure of 5000 samples.
> 
> But that simply is not true.



They gave a figure of about 30,000 tests done a day or two ago, I didn’t see what that number was on today’s stats. Didn’t read the same document. Would be good if they always showed how many tests were done versus the confirmed cases. A small increase in confirmed cases can give the impression the virus is slowing down but it might not be valid if there were not many additional tests done

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## Grand Guru (30/3/20)

There is no backlog in NHLS (public) labs either. The current turnaround times is 24h.
Edit: we are hoping to receive more performant test kits in the next few days whi will reduce the turnaround times to 2-3 hours.

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## Grand Guru (30/3/20)

Silver said:


> They gave a figure of about 30,000 tests done a day or two ago, I didn’t see what that number was on today’s stats. Didn’t read the same document. Would be good if they always showed how many tests were done versus the confirmed cases. A small increase in confirmed cases can give the impression the virus is slowing down but it might not be valid if there were not many additional tests done


We are still in the very early stages of the epidemic so treat the numbers with a lot of caution. There will be some fluctuations (weekends, public holidays, lockdown may have affected the screening and testing processes). The next few days/weeks we may see a drastic change in the picture.

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## Timwis (30/3/20)

My daily UK update, a further 195 deaths taking the total to 1,415 deaths. To show how dangerous this is and how easily it spreads one new death it's reported is of a women that it's suspected caught the virus attending a funeral of a previous victim even though certain distancing was maintained at the funeral, death is leading to death. Don't let your only 2 deaths make you complacent else in a couple of weeks time your figures will be what we have in the UK, then you will really know what fear is! I try to keep a sense of humour which i will continue to try and maintain but when the situation gets as bad as it is in the UK even going to get food shopping brings a real sense of fear i can only think could compare to going over the top on the front line (not trying to make light of those that have fought in combat on behalf of us all but just can't think of another comparison) and the 7 day clock needs resetting so spend the whole of life at the moment wondering if symptoms are going to break out at any moment!

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2


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## alex1501 (30/3/20)

Silver said:


> Would be good if they always showed how many tests were done versus the confirmed cases.



https://sacoronavirus.co.za/




Number of positive vs tested varies 3-4% (3.5% average).

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 1 | Thanks 1 | Informative 2


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## Silver (31/3/20)

Thanks @Grand Guru for the update on the test kits

Thanks @alex1501 , for posting that update
So we on about 35k tests now
Hoping that number will grow fast in the week ahead.

I heard our president say last night in his address to the nation at 19h30 that they will start *screening*. I.e. rocking up at your house and coming to test you. Is this at random? Or is it because they suspect someone in your area has the virus and they are looking for it?

With crime levels where they are I am not sure people are just going to let them in their house to take samples. I am in two minds what I would do in this situation. Probably I will say thanks but no thanks.

However, resisting a test like this is probably a crime in itself.

I just worry that criminals who are smart will start posing as Coronavirus testers.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 4


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## Adephi (31/3/20)

Silver said:


> Thanks @Grand Guru for the update on the test kits
> 
> Thanks @alex1501 , for posting that update
> So we on about 35k tests now
> ...



I'm sure the minister will give info later on.

I think its more screening and temperature checks. And focus will be more in townships. He did mention villages.

Untill then don't open the door for anybody.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Thanks 1


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## Room Fogger (31/3/20)

Silver said:


> Thanks @Grand Guru for the update on the test kits
> 
> Thanks @alex1501 , for posting that update
> So we on about 35k tests now
> ...


They can test/screen me through my fence, no need to enter, our yard and house is off limits to everyone except us. One at a time and someone in the family will be keeping a good eye on the ones at the gate for Incase.

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 2


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## Grand Guru (31/3/20)

https://select.timeslive.co.za/news...ift-capacity-to-36000-a-day-says-sa-lab-head/

Reactions: Like 3 | Informative 1


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## Hooked (31/3/20)

What I would like to know is this. If someone is a carrier (they unknowingly have the virus but don't show symptoms) *for how long will they be a carrier and thus be able to transmit the virus to others?*

When lockdown ends we'll be back in the world - and exposed to those who are carriers.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Jean claude Vaaldamme (31/3/20)

In a country where people will not even say that someone died of aids, the question is. Do you believe the accuracy of crime stats, unemployment stats, road death stats, corona stats, etc?

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 1


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## Grand Guru (31/3/20)

Hooked said:


> What I would like to know is this. If someone is a carrier (they unknowingly have the virus but don't show symptoms) *for how long will they be a carrier and thus be able to transmit the virus to others?*
> 
> When lockdown ends we'll be back in the world - and exposed to those who are carriers.


I would sat for a good 3 weeks @Hooked to be on the safe side. 2 weeks on average...

Reactions: Like 3


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## Dela Rey Steyn (31/3/20)

SWAMBO got tested yesterday afternoon, got the all clear this morning.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 9


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## Jean claude Vaaldamme (31/3/20)

So everyday more restrictions are lifted. Taxis operating, courier services, I see some computer places open. Talks of cigarettes and booze maybe on sale again. We not even 1 week into lockdown. Will this lockdown work?

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Hooked (31/3/20)

My general area, Swartland, has confirmed its first case.

Now here's something interesting. We received a report from N/Watch about garbage removal. Apparently the garbage from a house whose occupant has the virus, has to be done in a different way and it must be kept separate from other garbage. But here's the thing - the name and address of the person who has the virus is supposed to be confidential. The Swartland Municipality is in discussions to resolve the matter. I just hope that it's no-one in my town.

Reactions: Informative 2


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## Hooked (31/3/20)

Dela Rey Steyn said:


> SWAMBO got tested yesterday afternoon, got the all clear this morning.



Very happy to hear that @Dela Rey Steyn! May she continue to stay that way.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Thanks 1


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## Dela Rey Steyn (31/3/20)

Hooked said:


> Very happy to hear that @Dela Rey Steyn! May she continue to stay that way.


Hope so too @Hooked! Limpopo has been lucky with a very low amount of cases. But I feel that will all change soon, the proverbial landmine waiting to be tread upon. We had a massive influx of people from Gauteng and Northwest the day before the Lockdown started, the MEC's request fell on deaf ears. The next 2 weeks are going to get interesting in our little piece of Bushveld. Let's hope for the best.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Hooked (31/3/20)

Dela Rey Steyn said:


> Hope so too @Hooked! Limpopo has been lucky with a very low amount of cases. But I feel that will all change soon, the proverbial landmine wait g to be tread upon. We had a massive influx of people from Gauteng and Northwest the day before the Lockdown started, the MEC's request fell on deaf ears. The next 2 weeks are going to get interesting in our little piece of Bushveld. Let's hope for the best.



@Dela Rey Steyn We had an influx of visitors too - big rush to get here before lockdown. How do we know that they didn't bring the virus with them from Gauteng, Durban etc.? I'm furious about that. They should have just stayed where they were. And what's the point of being here, when you can't go out, can't go to the beach etc.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Room Fogger (31/3/20)

Hooked said:


> @Dela Rey Steyn We had an influx of visitors too - big rush to get here before lockdown. How do we know that they didn't bring the virus with them from Gauteng, Durban etc.? I'm furious about that. They should have just stayed where they were. And what's the point of being here, when you can't go out, can't go to the beach etc.


The revenge part is they are now sitting with kids at the beach, nagging them and can’t go out, instead of a neutral place where there were no expectations. Should have stayed at home, it’s not a vacation, it’s an extraordinary situation. A lot of people thought they would be able to walk around, go to the beach, go jogging as it’s open space.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Grand Guru (31/3/20)

There is a lot of stigma around this condition. We need to keep in mind that people who have it are not at fault. This is by no means a lifestyle associated disease. I’m hearing the weirdest and the scariest stories around me. From the church priest who is being victimized by members of his church accusing him of spreading the disease and threatening his life and to burn the church down... to the family refusing that Covid19 be put on the death certificate as cause of death out of fear of being victimized.
We have a major public health issue to deal with and we can only contain the damage by standing together, caring for ourselves but also for each other...

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 4


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## Room Fogger (31/3/20)

Reality check just bounced in my home town, patient 1 in Gauteng that died was in our one private hospital! Maybe now some people will start taking it seriously. I feel for his family, especially in this time.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Can relate 1


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## Adephi (31/3/20)

Silver said:


> Thanks @Grand Guru for the update on the test kits
> 
> Thanks @alex1501 , for posting that update
> So we on about 35k tests now
> ...

Reactions: Thanks 1 | Informative 4


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## Timwis (31/3/20)

Daily UK update is not good! For the first day deaths in the community as well as in hospitals are included giving 393 deaths in the last 24 hours bringing the total to 1,808. I find this very worrying that once including deaths outside of hospitals the daily amount death rate doubled which means because these people haven't previously been included in the figures tells me two things. 1, the actual number of deaths is likely to be around 3,000 and 2. A lot of people are being left to die and not being admitted to hospital!

Reactions: Informative 3


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## Hooked (1/4/20)

Adephi said:


> View attachment 193262
> View attachment 193263



No-one is coming on to my property, even with ID. They can test me at the gate.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Hooked (1/4/20)

*Health dept seeks MSC Orchestra Cruise passengers after 2 test positive*
*
Read here*

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Timwis (1/4/20)

Normally UK figures are announced after 5pm and are the last 24 hours between 5pm the previous day and 5pm on the day announced. Wednesday numbers released at 2pm which i can only assume because they didn't want the total to set in panic so the last 21 hours in the UK we have had another 563 deaths taking the total to 2,352 but as mentioned yesterday deaths in the community has only been included in the past two days so total deaths will realistically be much higher!

Reactions: Informative 2


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## Ruwaid (1/4/20)

@Timwis and everyone else that knows...what are they doing with the bodies?  I have not seen or come across (im sure this was discussed) yet any news on how bodies are being dismissed? I have seen pics of Italy where a massive hall was laid out with coffins and a rose on each one before burning all of them 
Can this virus pass from the deceased to us? Assuming there must be very close contact like a funeral. If yes, what happens if, GOD forbid, one of us reading this now gets it...once we get into ICU...do we ever see our loved ones again? Should the case become fatal.


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## Timwis (1/4/20)

Ruwaid said:


> @Timwis and everyone else that knows...what are they doing with the bodies?  I have not seen or come across (im sure this was discussed) yet any news on how bodies are being dismissed? I have seen pics of Italy where a massive hall was laid out with coffins and a rose on each one before burning all of them
> Can this virus pass from the deceased to us? Assuming there must be very close contact like a funeral. If yes, what happens if, GOD forbid, one of us reading this now gets it...once we get into ICU...do we ever see our loved ones again? Should the case become fatal.


I really don't know what's happening to bodies, i just look at the daily figures and any updates on how they are collated. For someone who under normal circumstances always watches the news i am giving it a miss to keep some sanity else it would just get too depressing!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Resistance (1/4/20)

Jean claude Vaaldamme said:


> In a country where people will not even say that someone died of aids, the question is. Do you believe the accuracy of crime stats, unemployment stats, road death stats, corona stats, etc?


No but from what they come up with I normally have my own equation.
So it's good to see what they show and also check what international stats say about us and then times10 , decide by 4 add the square root of 10and 4 and minus the stats they give

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## Ruwaid (1/4/20)

Timwis said:


> I really don't know what's happening to bodies, i just look at the daily figures and any updates on how they are collated. For someone who under normal circumstances always watches the news i am giving it a miss to keep some sanity else it would just get too depressing!


Its so scary! Saw chilling images of fleets of army trucks waiting to be filled with the bodies from Italian hospitals. Nurses and doctors there said they stopping counting the dead...and were also tasked with supporting/holding hands of the ill as they were taking their last breaths

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Hooked (1/4/20)

Ruwaid said:


> @Timwis and everyone else that knows...what are they doing with the bodies?  I have not seen or come across (im sure this was discussed) yet any news on how bodies are being dismissed? I have seen pics of Italy where a massive hall was laid out with coffins and a rose on each one before burning all of them
> Can this virus pass from the deceased to us? Assuming there must be very close contact like a funeral. If yes, what happens if, GOD forbid, one of us reading this now gets it...once we get into ICU...do we ever see our loved ones again? Should the case become fatal.


 
@Ruwaid Because this virus is contagious and infectious, no-one is allowed to visit the Corona patient in hospital. If the ICU unit has windows they would be able to see each other but that's all. EDIT: *IF *the hospital even allows visitors into the hospital.

A woman in the UK was on TV last night (on BBC) and she described how awful it was not to be able to hold her mother's hand while she was dying. A wonderful nurse who was caring for her mother put her own phone by the mother's ear, so that the daughter could tell her how much she loved her. The nurse, who could see that the mother didn't have long to live, promised to hold the mother's hand so that she wouldn't die alone. Ten minutes after the phone call she phoned the daughter to tell her that her mother had passed away. It's truly an awful situation.

I don't know what is being done about burials, but to answer your question about whether one could get the virus from a dead person, the answer I would think is yes, if you touch them, because the virus remains on surfaces for a few days. However, it's possible that whatever steps are taken to prepare the body for burial might kill the virus. I'm afraid I don't know anything about that.

Where there are thousands of deaths, as in Italy, I guess cremation (burning the bodies) is the only solution.

G-d forbid that we get to that stage here in SA.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Grand Guru (1/4/20)

All the funeral parlours received clear instruction to treat every corpse as a potential Covid19 infected corpse. There is definitely a risk of infection as these people may get into contact with bodily fluids during the preparation of the bodies for cremation or burial @Ruwaid. So the undertakers must wear protective gear like healthcare professionals.
Bodies are not given to the families and go straight from the hospital to the parlour. Only 20 people are allowed per funeral and only 10 if it’s a confirmed case. The funeral must not exceed 1hour, no catering, no after tears etc.

Reactions: Informative 7


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## Resistance (1/4/20)

Resistance said:


> No but from what they come up with I normally have my own equation.
> So it's good to see what they show and also check what international stats say about us and then times10 , decide by 4 add the square root of 10and 4 and minus the stats they give


This was a joke.
For now I have to believe what they tell us. It's not always on par but I view more than one sources on this topic. This is a worldwide pandemic so all other countries will have news about Z.A. I normally read a few different headlines and make a deduction by what is common.

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## Resistance (1/4/20)

Grand Guru said:


> All the funeral parlours received clear instruction to treat every corpse as a potential Covid19 infected corpse. There is definitely a risk of infection as these people may get into contact with bodily fluids during the preparation of the bodies for cremation or burial @Ruwaid. So the undertakers must wear protective gear like healthcare professionals.
> Bodies are not given to the families and go straight from the hospital to the parlour. Only 20 people are allowed per funeral and only 10 if it’s a confirmed case. The funeral must not exceed 1hour, no catering, no after tears etc.


@Ruwaid
I was going to ask this question last week ,but thought it was to delicate because I assumed these people would just be cremated by the GOV.
Or at the hospitals so they won't have regular type funerals. I thought this was sad.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Grand Guru (1/4/20)

Resistance said:


> @Ruwaid
> I was going to ask this question last week ,but thought it was to delicate because I assumed these people would just be cremated by the GOV.
> Or at the hospitals so they won't have regular type funerals. I thought this was sad.


Hospitals do not have cremation facilities @Resistance... there Would be a conflict of interests otherwise

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## Resistance (1/4/20)

Grand Guru said:


> Hospitals do not have cremation facilities @Resistance... there Would be a conflict of interests otherwise


So


Grand Guru said:


> Hospitals do not have cremation facilities @Resistance... there Would be a conflict of interests otherwise


 sorry I meant
to write "bodies being disposed of by the Gov. And Hospitals due to trying to curb the infection spreading rate .

Reactions: Like 2


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## Grand Guru (1/4/20)

Resistance said:


> So
> sorry I meant
> to write "bodies being disposed of by the Gov. And Hospitals due to trying to curb the infection spreading rate .


That may happen if number of deaths gets out of control and exceeds capacities of funeral parlours with all the health risk it entails

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## Chickenstrip (1/4/20)

*Germany:*
Total infected: 77 779
Actively Infected: 58 170
Recovered: 18 700
Deaths: 909
Recovery to death ratio 1 : 20

*Spain:*
Total infected: 102 179
Actively Infected: 70 401
Recovered: 22 647
Deaths: 9131
Recovery to death ratio 1 : 2.5

*France:*
Total infected: 56 989
Actively Infected: 42 023
Recovered: 10 934
Deaths: 4032
Recovery to death ratio 1: 2,75

SA:
Total infected: 1380
Actively Infected: 1325
Recovered: 50
Deaths: 5
Recovery to death ratio 1: 10



I think this disease is far more severe than most realise. Today Woolies was full, 1 in 20 customers were wearing masks or gloves. We are yet to see the worst of this. It's going to hit us very hard and it's going to be truly tragic.

People keep stating the mortality rate as the number of deaths relative to the number of total cases but the time delay drastically skews the stats as the virus can remain active for weeks to months. The real mortality rate should be measured by recovered persons to deceased persons. It's paints a far more grim picture.

Sad to think that ignorance is going to cause so many deaths. Goodluck everyone I think we're all going to need it more than we care to admit.

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## Hooked (1/4/20)

*How to spot a real COVID-19 field worker*
https://www.capetownetc.com/news/how-to-spot-a-real-covid-19-field-worker
1 April 2020

" During an interview with Radio702, the Department of Health’s Deputy Director-General Dr Yogan Pillay said that field workers will have identification tags...

Dr Pillay has told South Africans that field workers will carry identification badges, wear uniform T-shirts and be required to carry their official ID documents.

All field workers will also be accompanied by police officers, to ensure there is no trouble between the community and field workers, and vice versa. Community leaders will also be informed of when the field workers will arrive to ensure all residents are aware that they will be visited..."

Reactions: Agree 1 | Optimistic 1


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## alex1501 (2/4/20)

Screenshot taken 01/04/2020 just before midnight. 



https://sacoronavirus.co.za/

Reactions: Informative 4


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## Hooked (2/4/20)

Chickenstrip said:


> *Germany:*
> Total infected: 77 779
> Actively Infected: 58 170
> Recovered: 18 700
> ...



@Chickenstrip What's the difference between Totally Infected and Actively Infected? Does Totally Infected mean that they tested postive but do not have symptoms, whereas Actively Infected means a positive test and symptoms?

I agree about the time delay and *that* is what worries me the most. Post-lockdown everyone is going to be out and about as if nothing has happened. There won't even be an attempt at social distancing, people won't be wearing masks and gloves - and we'll have what has been called a "second wave" of the virus. I'm going to be very careful for the remainder of this year!!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Adephi (2/4/20)

Hooked said:


> @Chickenstrip What's the difference between Totally Infected and Actively Infected? Does Totally Infected mean that they tested postive but do not have symptoms, whereas Actively Infected means a positive test and symptoms?



Total infected is everybody that has got the virus at a given time and has recovered from it. Actively infected is everybody that has got the virus at the given time. If that makes sense.

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## Raindance (2/4/20)

Testing is currently still only done on those showing symptoms that have been overseas in the past weeks or have been in contact with confirmed cases. As a result of this gatekeeping criteria we are in fact guarding the front door but leaving the patio door wide open. I think the true infected number is exponentially higher than the official one.

Regards

Reactions: Agree 8


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## Timwis (2/4/20)

Adephi said:


> Total infected is everybody that has got the virus at a given time and has recovered from it. Actively infected is everybody that has got the virus at the given time. If that makes sense.


No, Total infected are those that have tested positive, Actively infected are those that are still infected so if you add Deaths, Recovered and Actively Infected together it gives the Total Infected figure!

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## Ruwaid (2/4/20)

Hooked said:


> I agree about the time delay and [B]that[/B] is what worries me the most. Post-lockdown everyone is going to be out and about as if nothing has happened. There won't even be an attempt at social distancing, people won't be wearing masks and gloves - and we'll have what has been called a "second wave" of the virus. I'm going to be very careful for the remainder of this year!!



Total infected = all that were tested and ALL that were confirmed as positive.
Total infected cases - Recovered cases = Actively infected.
Leave alone rest of the year...wearing gloves and masks and keeping away until absolutely impossible will be the worlds exercise for a very long time to come. This is going to mark a different world for us all. Clinical trials of some companies only start this October and some much later. From those trails who knows how long it will take for a positive test/successful vaccine. Those vaccines as well are more for prevention rather than cure. Vaccine wont mean much to people who are already infected

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1


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## Chickenstrip (2/4/20)

Timwis said:


> No, Total infected are those that have tested positive, Actively infected are those that are still infected so if you add Deaths, Recovered and Actively Infected together it gives the Total Infected figure!



This @Hooked ^^

Total is the total number of people who have been infected. It includes dead, recovered and actively infected.

Actively Infected are people who are positive but are not yet dead or cured.

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## Silver (2/4/20)

The number I am interested in watching is how many tests have been done

Comparing with other countries is not that meaningful if one doesn’t adjust for how many tests have been done.

I saw they reported the number of tests a few days ago, I think we were on 35k tests or thereabouts
Wonder where we are now on that?

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Grand Guru (2/4/20)



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## Timwis (2/4/20)

Daily UK update, now almost at 3,000 as in the last 24 hours another 569 die in the UK including a couple of celebrities taking the total to 2,921. As mentioned previously deaths in the community have only been included in the past 3 days figures but not previously so i estimate actual death toll now over 4.000!

Reactions: Informative 2


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## Danman110 (2/4/20)

Silver said:


> The number I am interested in watching is how many tests have been done
> 
> Comparing with other countries is not that meaningful if one doesn’t adjust for how many tests have been done.
> 
> ...


Total test done to date in SA.






Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

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## Silver (3/4/20)

Thanks for the updates
So 3% of those tested have tested positive

I would love to know how our testing compares with other countries 
For example, tests/million population 
How many tests we’ve done at our stage (days since first case found) versus other countries

We definitely have lower positive cases than other countries had at our stage
But I want to see if it’s because our testing is lower

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


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## Adephi (3/4/20)

So the newest conspiracy I heard of this morning. 

The mutation in the corona virus was caused by the type of 5G technology that's developed in China..

I have 3 questions...
What are the conspiracy theorists smoking?
Where are they getting it?
How much did they pay for it?

Reactions: Funny 5


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## Grand Guru (3/4/20)

For those of you who like numbers like @silvet check out this website
Https://Ourworldindata.org/Coronavirus

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## Timwis (3/4/20)

Latest UK figures in and it's just getting worse everyday. In the last 24 hours we have had 684 deaths, soon it will be over 1,000 a day!

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Hooked (3/4/20)

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577
*A cluster randomised trial of cloth masks compared with medical masks in healthcare workers*

"The authors of this article, published in 2015, have written a response to their work in light of the COVID-19 pandemic...

*Objective* The aim of this study was to compare the efficacy of cloth masks to medical masks in hospital healthcare workers (HCWs). The null hypothesis is that there is no difference between medical masks and cloth masks.

*Setting* 14 secondary-level/tertiary-level hospitals in Hanoi, Vietnam.

*Participants* 1607 hospital HCWs aged ≥18 years working full-time in selected high-risk wards.

*Intervention Hospital wards were randomised to:* medical masks, cloth masks or a control group (usual practice, which included mask wearing). Participants used the mask on every shift for 4 consecutive weeks.

*Main outcome measure* Clinical respiratory illness (CRI), influenza-like illness (ILI) and laboratory-confirmed respiratory virus infection.

*Results [my summary]*

"The rates of all infection outcomes were highest in the cloth mask ... [and] penetration of cloth masks by particles was almost 97% and medical masks 44%."

*Conclusions* This study is the first RCT of cloth masks, and the results caution against the use of cloth masks. This is an important finding to inform occupational health and safety. Moisture retention, reuse of cloth masks and poor filtration may result in increased risk of infection. Further research is needed to inform the widespread use of cloth masks globally. However, as a precautionary measure, cloth masks should not be recommended for HCWs, particularly in high-risk situations, and guidelines need to be updated."

Reactions: Informative 2


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## Hooked (3/4/20)

There's an article about SA on the BBC.

Sorry - can't post the URL for the text.

It's on the BBC Website, under News > Africa

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## Hooked (3/4/20)

*Covid-19 update: Virus hits townships, judge appointed to monitor cellphone tracking*
https://www.businessinsider.co.za/c...verything-we-know-about-covid-19-in-sa-2020-3
3 April 2020

*Last updated: 18:24*,* 3 April 2020.*

*"Number of confirmed cases in South Africa: 1 505*

*Deaths: 7, two additional deaths being confirmed *

In confirming the latest numbers, Health Minister Zweli Mkhize says the virus being seen in densely populated areas, like townships, has given the pandemic a "new dynamic", and the government wants to hit these areas first when it comes to taking measures to curb the spread.

Minister of Mining and Energy, Gwede Mantashe, announced that three people have tested positive for Covid-19 in the mining and energy sector. One each in the Western Cape, Mpumalanga and KwaZulu-Natal.

Kate O'Regan (62), former judge of the Constitutional Court of South Africa, has been appointed to monitor government's tracking of citizens' cellphones.

As of Thursday the South African government can trace the movements of any South African cellphone user back as far as 5 March, in order to fight Covid-19.

That movement data will go into a special database to identify anyone who may have had physical contact with a person known to be carrying the SARS-Cov-2 virus, for possible testing and quarantine.

Users whose locations are traced need not be notified initially, but O'Regan will be given a list of the people affected – after the fact – in order to make recommendations about privacy protections. In the month after the state of national disaster is ended, those who were tracked must be told their movements had been traced.

The database is due to be de-identified, leaving only general data for future study, six weeks after South Africa's national state of disaster around Covid-19 is declared over."


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## Hooked (3/4/20)

This is what is needed in densely-populated areas of SA.

*Police in China use smart helmet to detect possible Coronavi ..*
https://www.gadgetsnow.com/tech-new...coronavirus-patients/articleshow/74668611.cms

Read the article ... it says that police who are wearing these helmets just need to look at someone to know what their body temperature is. Brilliant idea!!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Silver (3/4/20)

Grand Guru said:


> For those of you who like numbers like @silvet check out this website
> Https://Ourworldindata.org/Coronavirus



Wow!
Thanks for sharing that @Grand Guru 
What an excellent resource!
So much great ove how you can press play on the maps to see how the data has changed over time 

I haven’t read that page very carefully, just looked at it briefly
But I still don’t see number of tests being shown anywhere
Maybe they don’t collate that data

Anyhow, it’s an excellent resource and I am bookmarking that page

Reactions: Like 2


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## Grand Guru (3/4/20)

Silver said:


> Wow!
> Thanks for sharing that @Grand Guru
> What an excellent resource!
> So much great ove how you can press play on the maps to see how the data has changed over time
> ...


All the countries collate the data on the total number of tests but countries are adopting different approaches to testing. The state of New York for instance decided to go wild on testing and implemented a very large scale testing campaign and picked up a remarkably high number of positive cases most of which are not going to need admission. France and Italy decided to target those who qualify for admission to hospital and wouldn’t test those who clinically are suggestive of the disease but are stable enough to go self confine and medicate at home. In other words the number of tests won’t reflect the same thing in 2 different countries so it's not that relevant...
You get what you measure

Reactions: Like 5


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## Silver (3/4/20)

Grand Guru said:


> All the countries collate the data on the total number of tests but countries are adopting different approaches to testing. The state of New York for instance decided to go wild on testing and implemented a very large scale testing campaign and picked up a remarkably high number of positive cases most of which are not going to need admission. France and Italy decided to target those who qualify for admission to hospital and wouldn’t test those who clinically are suggestive of the disease but are stable enough to go self confine and medicate at home. In other words the number of tests won’t reflect the same thing in 2 different countries so it's not that relevant...
> You get what you measure



Ok thanks
That makes sense
So I guess the main statistic then is the number of deaths
I assume that measurement is fairly consistent across countries

We have 7 deaths in SA, so I assume that for now and our stage in the situation, we are doing relatively well compared to several other countries. But it’s still early days...

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Grand Guru (3/4/20)

Silver said:


> Ok thanks
> That makes sense
> So I guess the main statistic then is the number of deaths
> I assume that measurement is fairly consistent across countries
> ...


Yes the death rate (not the number of deaths) is better parameter. But, even then we must compare apples with apples... Europe has undoubtedly a much more resourceful healthcare system but an aging population, we have a crippling healthcare system, an HIV and TB epidemic but a younger population... 
I agree with you, we are still in the early stages of the epidemic. We need to stay focused on the barrier measures for a good 6 months to prevent an explosion in the number of cases with which our healthcare facilities wouldn’t cope...
Here is a good paper to read on our situation https://www.medicalbrief.co.za/arch...-collide-tb-hiv-and-covid-19-in-south-africa/

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 2 | Useful 1


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## Resistance (4/4/20)

Grand Guru said:


> Yes the death rate (not the number of deaths) is better parameter. But, even then we must compare apples with apples... Europe has undoubtedly a much more resourceful healthcare system but an aging population, we have a crippling healthcare system, an HIV and TB epidemic but a younger population...
> I agree with you, we are still in the early stages of the epidemic. We need to stay focused on the barrier measures for a good 6 months to prevent an explosion in the number of cases with which our healthcare facilities wouldn’t cope...
> Here is a good paper to read on our situation https://www.medicalbrief.co.za/arch...-collide-tb-hiv-and-covid-19-in-south-africa/



One thing that we have here despite everything else that still needs to be figured out... Is some of the world's best Medical professionals.
Technology might find the problem and help solve it quicker ,but experience will do a better job of the whole process.
Shout out to our Med. Staff and support staff.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 4


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## Grand Guru (4/4/20)

Resistance said:


> One thing that we have here despite everything else that still needs to be figured out... Is some of the world's best Medical professionals.
> Technology might find the problem and help solve it quicker ,but experience will do a better job of the whole process.
> Shout out to our Med. Staff and support staff.


That’s exactly what I tell my staff to motivate them. There is simply no other nation that is as prepared for this epidemic as this nation, not with resources but with skills! We have been dealing with multi-drug resistant TB and with HIV for the last 30 years and we know how to deal with infectious diseases better than anyone else. I sincerely hope I’m right!

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## Resistance (4/4/20)

Grand Guru said:


> That’s exactly what I tell my staff to motivate them. There is simply no other nation that is as prepared for this epidemic as this nation, not with resources but with skills! We have been dealing with multi-drug resistant TB and with HIV for the last 30 years and we know how to deal with infectious diseases better than anyone else. I sincerely hope I’m right!


We have the toughest medical exams and still the longest study period even though things has changed a little. So we should be prepared for most scenarios.
It's all just down to how we handle it.
And according to me can handle it!

Reactions: Winner 3


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## Adephi (4/4/20)

Grand Guru said:


> That’s exactly what I tell my staff to motivate them. There is simply no other nation that is as prepared for this epidemic as this nation, not with resources but with skills! We have been dealing with multi-drug resistant TB and with HIV for the last 30 years and we know how to deal with infectious diseases better than anyone else. I sincerely hope I’m right!



Have to agree with you.

I have all my trust in Prof Lucille Bloomberg and her team at NICD.

We had many VHF cases in hospitals and it was handled so professionally that not even the media got hold of it. One Congo Fever as recent as February in a Joburg hospital. I thought the media was going to blow it out of proportion, but not a word came from it. Patient recovered and nobody got infected from it.

They even help to contain the Ebola outbreak thats been going for a while now in Central Africa.

The problem now is we need the public to cooperate. Police and military can do just so much without resorting to force.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 4


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## Timwis (4/4/20)

Daily UK figure in and yet again it's a new daily high! In the last 24 hours another 708 deaths!

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## Grand Guru (4/4/20)

Timwis said:


> Daily UK figure in and yet again it's a new daily high! In the last 24 hours another 708 deaths!


That’s tragic @Timwis. It seems that the Queen is going to deliver a special speech today. Stay and you loved ones safe!

Reactions: Like 3 | Thanks 1


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## Hooked (4/4/20)

Grand Guru said:


> Yes the death rate (not the number of deaths) is better parameter. But, even then we must compare apples with apples... Europe has undoubtedly a much more resourceful healthcare system but an aging population, we have a crippling healthcare system, an HIV and TB epidemic but a younger population...
> I agree with you, we are still in the early stages of the epidemic. We need to stay focused on the barrier measures for a good 6 months to prevent an explosion in the number of cases with which our healthcare facilities wouldn’t cope...
> Here is a good paper to read on our situation https://www.medicalbrief.co.za/arch...-collide-tb-hiv-and-covid-19-in-south-africa/



Thanks for the link @Grand Guru - it's an interesting site.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## stevie g (5/4/20)

If you care to inform yourself... @Adephi

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Adephi (5/4/20)

stevie g said:


> If you care to inform yourself... @Adephi




Scanned through it. Any particular reason I'm tagged?


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## stevie g (5/4/20)

This one is going to get me a whole lot of Vitriol.
https://vigilantcitizen.com/latestn...al-certificate-to-identify-who-is-vaccinated/

Reactions: Winner 1 | Funny 2


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## stevie g (5/4/20)

@Adephi 

Didn't think you would watch, tell me again of how I'm going to change my opinion?

Covid-19 is a Covert op and now we have china style surveillance of our cell phones.

The recent spectrum release we just had... 5G anyone?

Reactions: Winner 1 | Funny 2


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## Adephi (5/4/20)

stevie g said:


> @Adephi
> 
> Didn't think you would watch, tell me again of how I'm going to change my opinion?
> 
> ...



Like everybody got 5G on their phone?

Next you are going to tell me this virus was designed by the "New World Order" (whatever that is) and in order to get the vaccine I will have to sell my soul to the giant spaghetti monster.

Waar kom mense aan die k@k?

I'm done with fantasy theories. You believe what you want. It doesn't mean anything to me. To me its about what is lying ahead and how to get over it. These conspiracies are not doing anything about that.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 4


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## Timwis (5/4/20)

Adephi said:


> Like everybody got 5G on their phone?
> 
> Next you are going to tell me this virus was designed by the "New World Order" (whatever that is) and in order to get the vaccine I will have to sell my soul to the giant spaghetti monster.
> 
> ...


We still have the UFO nuts to come up with the virus was brought to Earth by extra terrestrial life on an asteroid conspiracy, watch this space!

Reactions: Funny 4


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## Dela Rey Steyn (5/4/20)

Adephi said:


> Like everybody got 5G on their phone?
> 
> Next you are going to tell me this virus was designed by the "New World Order" (whatever that is) and in order to get the vaccine I will have to sell my soul to the giant spaghetti monster.
> 
> ...


If it's on the internet, especially Reddit, then it must be true...

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 3 | Funny 1


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## Grand Guru (5/4/20)

Timwis said:


> We still have the UFO nuts to come up with the virus was brought to Earth by extra terrestrial life on an asteroid conspiracy, watch this space!
> 
> View attachment 193499


And the Illuminati fans finding the real reasons behind the lockdown!

Reactions: Winner 2 | Funny 3


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## Dela Rey Steyn (5/4/20)



Reactions: Winner 2 | Funny 2


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## Timwis (5/4/20)

Dela Rey Steyn said:


> View attachment 193501


Of course all ridiculous ideas when everybody knows it originated on Discworld!

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## Grand Guru (5/4/20)

Timwis said:


> Of course all ridiculous ideas when everybody knows it originated on Discworld!
> 
> View attachment 193502


Replace the turtle with a bat and the theory will hold water

Reactions: Winner 4


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## Resistance (5/4/20)

For those that had to leave the house I have a question. How do you feel when you get back.?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Timwis (5/4/20)

Resistance said:


> For those that had to leave the house I have a question. How do you feel when you get back.?


It's a norm to show symptoms 7 days after becoming infected so say you have not been out for 4 days you think 3 more days and i'm in the clear and then suddenly you realise you need a few essentials and think shit back to 7 days of worry!

Reactions: Agree 3 | Funny 1


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## Resistance (5/4/20)

I feel the air is different but that might just be change of season.
Maybe because I don't like to be indoors and now I'm basically acclimated to the indoor vibe my body shocks when I finally go out. I'm totally fine afterwords when I'm back indoors for a while

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## Timwis (5/4/20)

A more plausible conspiracy theory based on my 2, Blossom and Ludo acting suspiciously, have cats finally made their move for world supremacy?

Reactions: Winner 2 | Funny 3


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## alex1501 (5/4/20)

* Bill Gates confident a potential coronavirus vaccine will work in Africa, but Twitter does not think so *




20:31 04/04/2020



Nhlanhla Jele

Talks to have a potential vaccine for Covid-19 tested in Africa, because the number of infected people is not as high as other countries like Italy, have been met with much resistance from people across the continent. 


On Saturday President Cyril Ramaphosa posted a tweet saying the Bill Gates Foundation has supported the country's health needs for many years: "They have offered assistance with innovative mass-based testing kits and research. I spoke to @BillGates and he commended the swift and decisive action South Africa has taken on #COVID19," the tweet read. 

Ramaphosa posted a video where the renowned businessman briefly explained his chat with the SA president.

In the video, speaking to host of the Daily Show, Trevor Noah, Gates said: "For developing countries, it's far harder and so these measures actually stop it from getting to the large part of the population, in places like India and Nigeria. I was talking to President Ramaphosa today, who is not only president of South Africa, he's also the head of African Union. He is a very strong voice there, encouraging African countries to act quickly when the number of cases is still fairly low, which is true throughout sub-Saharan Africa right now," he said in the video. 

Full article with video:

https://m.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Ne...africa-but-twitter-does-not-think-so-20200404

Reactions: Like 3 | Useful 1


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## Room Fogger (5/4/20)

Resistance said:


> For those that had to leave the house I have a question. How do you feel when you get back.?


In all honesty @Resistance , relieved, and then the disinfection begins before anything goes into the house. 

Just for interest sake, I saw a lot of empty shelves in one place, they are waiting for a restock, but I was there for veg and gluten free as I battled to get even before the lockdown for Locust 1. Got some rice flour etc, not enough for the remaining time, but will make do. We have some frozen stuff which I rotate in. 

Biggest thing was the isolation behind the mask and gloves, people still look at you funny, and the smiles are lacking, we cannot lose our humor and smiles at this time. I also think that I am a bit more acclimatized to being at home being stuck here since last year and trying to work from home, a lot of people are missing the interaction with co-workers, and I at least have my whole family. I am also the designated survivalist, I go out to get everything, everyone else stays put and help with disinfection once I get back. My sons are doing a marathon over the lockdown in the back yard, I’m walking with them running, keep fit guys, it helps. I feel really sorry for those that don’t have a private space to go out to at this time, even a balcony would be a piece of heaven on earth for some.

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 3


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## Chickenstrip (5/4/20)



Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Winner 6


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## Chickenstrip (5/4/20)



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## Hooked (5/4/20)

Timwis said:


> It's a norm to show symptoms 7 days after becoming infected so say you have not been out for 4 days you think 3 more days and i'm in the clear and then suddenly you realise you need a few essentials and think shit back to 7 days of worry!



This virus has us all paranoid about symptoms! Speaking of which ...

Last Saturday (28th March) at about 10pm I felt feverish. Out with the thermometer. 
Temperature 36.8. Hmmm that's a bit high, although not a fever. Nevertheless I took 2 Paracetamols and my temp came down to 36.4.

Last night, Saturday 4 April, at about 10pm I felt feverish. Out with the thermometer. 
Temperature 36.9. Hmmm that's a bit high, although not a fever. Nevertheless I took 2 Paracetamols and my temp came down to 36.4.

This is so weird. Why on *Saturday nights only? *The rest of the time I'm fine - or at least I assume so - I don't walk around with a thermometer in my mouth all day, but I feel fine.

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1


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## Chickenstrip (5/4/20)

Let's fight this together everyone!
Down with 5G!

Reactions: Funny 1 | Informative 2 | Useful 1


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## Timwis (5/4/20)

Hooked said:


> This virus has us all paranoid about symptoms! Speaking of which ...
> 
> Last Saturday (28th March) at about 10pm I felt feverish. Out with the thermometer.
> Temperature 36.8. Hmmm that's a bit high, although not a fever. Nevertheless I took 2 Paracetamols and my temp came down to 36.4.
> ...


You must stop using 5G on Saturday nights!

Reactions: Funny 6


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## Chickenstrip (5/4/20)

Timwis said:


> You must stop using 5G on Saturday nights!


Impossible, one hit of 5G and you're @Hooked !

Reactions: Winner 1 | Funny 6


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## Resistance (5/4/20)



Reactions: Funny 3


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## Hooked (5/4/20)

Timwis said:


> You must stop using 5G on Saturday nights!



Wish I had 5G to use!!! Don't even have 4G! Don't even have fibre - yet. They'd started laying cables before lockdown so let's hope we'll get it this year still.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Hooked (5/4/20)

There's something strange going on. I wonder if the govt. isn't downplaying the number of cases reported from 28 March onwards, or are my calculations incorrect? Or I'm not understanding something?

Between 21 - 27 March the average increase is 34% (over 6 days)
Between 28 March - 5 April the average increase is 3% (over 9 days)

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Adephi (5/4/20)

Hooked said:


> There's something strange going on. I wonder if the govt. isn't downplaying the number of cases reported from 28 March onwards, or are my calculations incorrect? Or I'm not understanding something?
> 
> Between 21 - 27 March the average increase is 34% (over 6 days)
> Between 28 March - 5 April the average increase is 3% (over 9 days)
> ...



This is my reasoning and it is up for debate.

At the moment the vast majority of tests are done in cities and suburbs where people are following the lockdown rules for most part. So the majority of tests are negative.

With government testing its almost like playing the game Battleships where you just randomly hit to try and find somewhere to work from. If a hotspot of infection starts to happen that figure is going to skyrocket like New York.

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## Silver (5/4/20)

Adephi said:


> This is my reasoning and it is up for debate.
> 
> At the moment the vast majority of tests are done in cities and suburbs where people are following the lockdown rules for most part. So the majority of tests are negative.
> 
> With government testing its almost like playing the game Battleships where you just randomly hit to try and find somewhere to work from. If a hotspot of infection starts to happen that figure is going to skyrocket like New York.



I like your reasoning @Adephi 
It makes sense
I just hope this virus doesn’t get out of hand in the near future. If it’s a slow increase then I suppose the whole lockdown would have achieved what it set out to.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Grand Guru (5/4/20)

all the above and anything in between is possible

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## Timwis (6/4/20)

DirtRider said:


> We have around 57 people murdered each day in SA, now we have 3 confirmed cases of this and everyone is in a panic


Thought i would choose someone with an attitude which if many have the same would magnitude the problem!
Latest 24 hour figure in for the UK is 621 more deaths in the last 24 hours taking us past the 5.000 deaths threshold!

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Adephi (6/4/20)

Timwis said:


> Thought i would choose someone with an attitude which if many have the same would magnitude the problem!
> Latest 24 hour figure in for the UK is 621 more deaths in the last 24 hours taking us past the 5.000 deaths threshold!



I see Boris has been admitted. A bit of irony there.

Wonder how long until that orange clown across the water will change his tune.

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 1 | Funny 1


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## Timwis (6/4/20)

Adephi said:


> I see Boris has been admitted. A bit of irony there.
> 
> Wonder how long until that orange clown across the water will change his tune.


Even if he does it will be done in a way to make out he was right all along, he won't admit to mistakes that's for sure. Their can't be many more that have such a high opinion of themselves yet absolutely nothing to have an high opinion about, just goes through life swinging punches when their is no one to hit as Vedder points out, a few real digs at Trump throughout Gigaton i'm surprised Trump hasn't had them arrested lol, free speech is fine in America unless it's criticising Trump. what a f**kwit!

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Hooked (6/4/20)

@Grand Guru Interesting info which you gave us. 

I've been concerned about post-lockdown increase, as people who are asymptomic will be circulating in the general population. Problem is that people will think they're safe and those who have been taking precautions e.g. masks etc. will no longer do so.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Hooked (6/4/20)

Adephi said:


> I see Boris has been admitted. A bit of irony there.
> 
> Wonder how long until that orange clown across the water will change his tune.



I've kept an article in which psychics gave their predictions for 2020. I question their psychic powers as no-one predicted Corona or any other world-wide disaster. 

However, what I found interesting is that two psychics predicted that Trump would win the election but he wouldn't finish his term. One psychic didn't explain why not. The other mentioned an illnes. Hmmmm ... makes one wonder now, right?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Timwis (6/4/20)

Hooked said:


> I've kept an article in which psychics gave their predictions for 2020. I question their psychic powers as no-one predicted Corona or any other world-wide disaster.
> 
> However, what I found interesting is that two psychics predicted that Trump would win the election but he wouldn't finish his term. One psychic didn't explain why not. The other mentioned an illnes. Hmmmm ... makes one wonder now, right?


There was a book by a physic that was mentioned on Facebook which a pandemic was predicted in 2020 only to disappear as quick as it arrived only to return even deadlier 10 years later before vanishing forever. I did get intrigued until i found out in the very same book the psychic had predicted the end of the world 4 times prior to 2020!

Reactions: Funny 4


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## Adephi (6/4/20)

Hooked said:


> I've kept an article in which psychics gave their predictions for 2020. I question their psychic powers as no-one predicted Corona or any other world-wide disaster.
> 
> However, what I found interesting is that two psychics predicted that Trump would win the election but he wouldn't finish his term. One psychic didn't explain why not. The other mentioned an illnes. Hmmmm ... makes one wonder now, right?



Before Covid I would say Trump had a good chance. He had a strong economy, record low unemployment and a booming stockmarket. Along comes Corona and wiped it all away. And his response to all this ain't helping much. Even Mike Pence looks like he's getting tired of covering for Trump.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Hooked (6/4/20)

@Silver (who asked) and anyone else:

If you're looking for N95 masks contact Gino , the owner of Gadget Fundi . *Mobile 071 471 2525.*

This is a message from Gino:
"I have these available selling mainly medical professionals, best ones I have seen so far, from Europe with a respirator valve, makes it a lot more easier to breath through, proper N95/FFP2 spec,"

I ordered a few on Friday and they were couriered on the same day. (He may courier them because they're medical products.)
His service is superb - as it always is!!!

Reactions: Like 1 | Thanks 1 | Informative 1


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## Raindance (6/4/20)

Hooked said:


> There's something strange going on. I wonder if the govt. isn't downplaying the number of cases reported from 28 March onwards, or are my calculations incorrect? Or I'm not understanding something?
> 
> Between 21 - 27 March the average increase is 34% (over 6 days)
> Between 28 March - 5 April the average increase is 3% (over 9 days)
> ...


Testing criteria is still based on having been overseas in the last two weeks or in direct contact with an infected person. What is happening is that we have run out of people that have been overseas. This reduced our scope to identify whom is infected, and as a result also reduced our testing of people that have been in contact with infected people. And that is all I have to say about that...

Regards

Reactions: Like 3


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## Resistance (6/4/20)



Reactions: Like 1


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## Grand Guru (6/4/20)

Raindance said:


> Testing criteria is still based on having been overseas in the last two weeks or in direct contact with an infected person. What is happening is that we have run out of people that have been overseas. This reduced our scope to identify whom is infected, and as a result also reduced our testing of people that have been in contact with infected people. And that is all I have to say about that...
> 
> Regards


NICD updated the testing criteria at least twice since the beginning of the epidemic. You can check their website for the updated criteria. Travel history and confirmed contact are no longer on the list.

Reactions: Like 2 | Informative 1


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## Raindance (6/4/20)

Grand Guru said:


> NICD updated the testing criteria at least twice since the beginning of the epidemic. You can check their website for the updated criteria. Travel history and confirmed contact are no longer on the list.


Admittedly, my info is from a testing centre last week Wednesday.

Regards

Reactions: Like 4


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## Grand Guru (6/4/20)

Raindance said:


> Admittedly, my info is from a testing centre last week Wednesday.
> 
> Regards

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 1


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## alex1501 (6/4/20)

*Fact Check: No, Disaster Management Act does not restrict citizens to post updates on Covid-19*
*No, there isn't any restriction on citizens to share news or updates about the situation arsising out of coronavirus pandemic as long as it is based on facts.*

A message along with a video of a police officer is going viral on social media. The message states that from midnight onwards (no date mentioned), the Disaster Management Act has been implemented across the country, as per which apart from government departments, no other citizen is allowed to post any update or share any forward related to the novel coronavirus.
It is a punishable offence so admins are requested to inform their group members, the message reads.

It looks like this has started on the social media in India.
Source:

https://www.indiatoday.in/fact-chec...o-post-updates-on-covid-19-1662457-2020-04-02

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## stevie g (6/4/20)

@Adephi yeah conspiracy theories hey what a bunch of retards. Only mainstream news informs my views /s

Edit: tldr; Head Doctor at NY hospital says corona cases not what mainstream news says it is. Official 5g testing documents reveal... sorry you're going to have to think for yourself. 
Look for it, the studies exist.

Reactions: Disagree 3


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## Dela Rey Steyn (6/4/20)

stevie g said:


> @Adephi yeah conspiracy theories hey what a bunch of retards. Only mainstream news informs my views /s
> 
> Edit: tldr; Head Doctor at NY hospital says corona cases not what mainstream news says it is. Official 5g testing documents reveal... sorry you're going to have to think for yourself.
> Look for it, the studies exist.



Must be a completely different virus in Iran that claimed more than 3000 lives then, because there is no 5G there... 
Seriously dude, find another hobby. Conspiracy theories don't suite you. And the only one here worth calling a retard has so far been you...

Reactions: Winner 2


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## stevie g (6/4/20)

@Dela Rey Steyn you disagree with the Doctor or just don't like information that wasn't spoon fed by your favourite news sites? Much easier not to think for yourself I assume.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Adephi (6/4/20)

stevie g said:


> @Adephi yeah conspiracy theories hey what a bunch of retards. Only mainstream news informs my views /s
> 
> Edit: tldr; Head Doctor at NY hospital says corona cases not what mainstream news says it is. Official 5g testing documents reveal... sorry you're going to have to think for yourself.
> Look for it, the studies exist.




Opinion noted

Reactions: Like 2


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## Dela Rey Steyn (6/4/20)

stevie g said:


> @Dela Rey Steyn you disagree with the Doctor or just don't like information that wasn't spoon fed by your favourite news sites? Much easier not to think for yourself I assume.


Do I disagree with the single American on YouTube that contradicts himself twice and admits that he has no knowledge of what he is describing? Why yes, I do disagree with him. See, I thought of that all by myself

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


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## stevie g (6/4/20)

@Dela Rey Steyn I know it's hard to think and research but others have done it for you. 

If you like I can repost the video from earlier with PhD scientists explaining that there is no reliable test for the virus. It flags any flu virus as a positive. 

I bet you're the sort of guy that'll be first in line for a vaccine. 

You know that bit about giving up liberty for safety then you deserve neither...

Reactions: Funny 1 | Creative 1 | Dislike 1


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## Adephi (6/4/20)

Dela Rey Steyn said:


> Do I disagree with the single American on YouTube that contradicts himself twice and admits that he has no knowledge of what he is describing? Why yes, I do disagree with him. See, I thought of that all by myself



Its not worth it..

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 3


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## Silver (6/4/20)

Guys, please respect our forum posting rules

If you want to make personal comments against each other, then by all means do that - but NOT on the public threads of this forum.

Play the ball, not the man

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 4 | Thanks 1


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## stevie g (6/4/20)

I'll just leave this here. Hope he doesn't contradict himself.

*Former President Of Microsoft Canada Frank Clegg: On Safety & 5G/Wireless Technologies*

**

Reactions: Funny 1


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## stevie g (6/4/20)

Obviously there is a virus, it's our rights that have been removed that is the issue. 

Some scientists are saying 5G potentiates the virus, maybe that's why Africa has such a low rate if infection.
BBtw
@Dela Rey Steyn Iran does have 5G since atleast 2017 and how we to know when they turn it off or on. 

I have learnt to research what I say beforehand.

Let me know if you'd like to see evidence from scientists on how 5G can potentiate corona virus.
https://www.commsupdate.com/articles/2017/09/25/mtn-irancell-carries-out-5g-network-test/

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## Timwis (6/4/20)

Silver said:


> Guys, please respect our forum posting rules
> 
> If you want to make personal comments against each other, then by all means do that - but NOT on the public threads of this forum.
> 
> Quite right i will restrain myself!

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Timwis (6/4/20)

Anyway in my opinion stats don't tell lies but conspiracy theorists do include Doctors and Scientists. 5G is not available throughout the UK some towns and cities have it and some don't. In Bolton where i live we don't have 5G yet have had 133 deaths so far and over 1,000 fighting for their lives in hospital. In my hometown of Swadlincote they do have 5G and see pic below not a single case of Covid-19:




I went on to study cases and deaths in comparison to whether 5G is available or not and the findings of that was conclusive the 5G theory is complete, total BS!!!!

Reactions: Winner 4


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## Resistance (6/4/20)

@stevie g . Please refrain from calling people idiots boet. You have the right to your opinion and everybody else can do the same. Go open a thread to discuss your theory there load your video's etc., and maybe you will have people responding to your ideas. 
Or go light a cigarette because a few days ago a Dr with some sort of PhD also said it was safer to smoke a stinkie.
Let us think and believe what we want and go talk about us in your thread.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


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## Adephi (7/4/20)

The last few days I have been stepping away from social media especially facebook and started looking at people's reaction to this pandemic from a different viewpoint.

It's really interesting the comfort mechanisms people use in order to cope with the pandemic and the lockdown. Religion is a big one where some people sound they belong to cult or a sect of some sorts. Another is the way people dive into conspiracy theories to try and make sense of it all. 

Me personally prefer to go behind the science and the numbers to get as much of the full picture as possible. Also because I physically get in contact with almost half the samples that gets taken in the country.

So I really don't have a problem with conspiracy theories anymore. As this pandemic develops in our country more people will resort to these comfort mechanisms at varying degrees.

What I do have a problem with is the amount of fake articles and facts thats doing the rounds. So if we can stick to facts from the WHO and NICD I'm fine with that.

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Timwis (7/4/20)

Adephi said:


> The last few days I have been stepping away from social media especially facebook and started looking at people's reaction to this pandemic from a different viewpoint.
> 
> It's really interesting the comfort mechanisms people use in order to cope with the pandemic and the lockdown. Religion is a big one where some people sound they belong to cult or a sect of some sorts. Another is the way people dive into conspiracy theories to try and make sense of it all.
> 
> ...


My information is fact based thanks, in fact any information on UK i give is backed up by WHO but about 24 hours later as WHO seems to be a day behind. I will stick to my sources as i want my information more current as the UK doesn't have 12 deaths but over the last 7 days has averaged 25 deaths per hour!

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Timwis (7/4/20)

Timwis said:


> My information is fact based thanks, in fact any information on UK i give is backed up by WHO but about 24 hours later as WHO seems to be a day behind. I will stick to my sources as i want my information more current as the UK doesn't have 12 deaths but over the last 7 days has averaged 25 deaths per hour!


@Adephi cleared that up with me, his post was nothing to do with my previous post so all good!

Reactions: Like 2


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## Timwis (7/4/20)

stevie g said:


> @Adephi yeah conspiracy theories hey what a bunch of retards. Only mainstream news informs my views /s
> 
> Edit: tldr; Head Doctor at NY hospital says corona cases not what mainstream news says it is. Official 5g testing documents reveal... sorry you're going to have to think for yourself.
> Look for it, the studies exist.



You only have to look into the studies on vaping to know a lot of Doctors and Scientists will say or come to the conclusion they are paid to find!

Reactions: Agree 3


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## RichJB (7/4/20)

I just want to say that I hope your PM pulls through OK, @Timwis. I realise a lot of folks don't like him but this isn't an illness I'd wish on anybody. Hope that he and Britain emerge stronger from it.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 4 | Thanks 1


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## Timwis (7/4/20)

RichJB said:


> I just want to say that I hope your PM pulls through OK, @Timwis. I realise a lot of folks don't like him but this isn't an illness I'd wish on anybody. Hope that he and Britain emerge stronger from it.


Yeah, it's not a time for political point scoring and we need all our politicians whichever party they are affiliated to pull together and see our nation both through this but hopefully emerge as a fairer more tolerant society, it makes Brexit seem of little importance!

Reactions: Like 3


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## Resistance (7/4/20)

Timwis said:


> You only have to look into the studies on vaping to know a lot of Doctors and Scientists will say or come to the conclusion they are paid to find!


This is one point of view and what I understood is that they are treating the phenomenon wrong from his point of view.

What he need is to get a few more PhD's to stand by him and they should do some testing on their own to see if they have a standing theory.
Right now they're guessing.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Timwis (7/4/20)

Latest figure in from UK. 786 more deaths in the last 24 hours taking the total to 6,159!

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 2


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## Dela Rey Steyn (7/4/20)

Timwis said:


> Latest figure in from UK. 786 more deaths in the last 24 hours taking the total to 6,159!


Can someone just for the love of Pete disconnect the 5G towers!!!

On a more serious note, please stay safe @Timwis! This disease is devastating.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 4 | Funny 1


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## Silver (8/4/20)

Nice Google home page today!

The caption is "To all emergency services workers, thank you"

Reactions: Like 6 | Winner 2


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## Adephi (8/4/20)



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## Raindance (8/4/20)

Adephi said:


> View attachment 193692


To whomever created that document I have but one thing to say: Pappa wag vir jou boeta, pappa wag vir jou!

Regards

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Adephi (8/4/20)

Raindance said:


> To whomever created that document I have but one thing to say: Pappa wag vir jou boeta, pappa wag vir jou!
> 
> Regards



Oh that document is as fake as you can get. But I have a 3 and 8 year old that will sleep much easier tonight.

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## Timwis (8/4/20)

Latest figure in from the UK and it's getting very bad, in the last 24 hours we have had 938 more deaths taking the total to 7,097 and estimated we are still 2 weeks away from the peak! town to town not yet updated but yesterday we were over 180 deaths just in the town i live so expect we have hit the 200 mark as i hear the sirens of another Ambulance as a write this!

Reactions: Informative 5


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## Adephi (8/4/20)

Timwis said:


> Latest figure in from the UK and it's getting very bad, in the last 24 hours we have had 938 more deaths taking the total to 7,097 and estimated we are still 2 weeks away from the peak! town to town not yet updated but yesterday we were over 180 deaths just in the town i live so expect we have hit the 200 mark as i hear the sirens of another Ambulance as a write this!



Sounds rough. Stay safe.

Heard today that the townships doesn't want to get tested because they don't want to be forced to go into quarantine. So they rather take their chances with the virus. In a week's time we might look the same as UK.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2 | Informative 2


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## Timwis (8/4/20)

Adephi said:


> Sounds rough. Stay safe.
> 
> Heard today that the townships doesn't want to get tested because they don't want to be forced to go into quarantine. So they rather take their chances with the virus. In a week's time we might look the same as UK.


Hopefully not, once it takes off their is no stopping it! a handful of deaths one week, into the thousands the next!

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Grand Guru (8/4/20)

Adephi said:


> Sounds rough. Stay safe.
> 
> Heard today that the townships doesn't want to get tested because they don't want to be forced to go into quarantine. So they rather take their chances with the virus. In a week's time we might look the same as UK.


Some silly guys are chasing the volunteers saying that these poor kids are bringing the Coronavirus to them

Reactions: Informative 3


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## Adephi (8/4/20)

https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

Things are looking very ugly in the USA.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


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## Chickenstrip (9/4/20)

It's absolutely ridiculous that they've set up 5G towers in the middle of Africa when they could have spent the money on food instead.

Although utterly horrific, it is quite something to experience a worldwide catastrophe of this kind of magnitude. Estimates of a 5%-20% decrease in the world's population if a vaccine is not produced in time. May the odds be ever in your favour everyone.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## Hooked (9/4/20)

Chickenstrip said:


> It's absolutely ridiculous that they've set up 5G towers in the middle of Africa when they could have spent the money on food instead.
> 
> Although utterly horrific, it is quite something to experience a worldwide catastrophe of this kind of magnitude. Estimates of a 5%-20% decrease in the world's population if a vaccine is not produced in time. May the odds be ever in your favour everyone.
> 
> ...



I think that this virus is Nature's way of decreasing the population and although I agree that it's horrendous, it is simply what occurs in the animal kingdom. The weak are left behind to die while the herd moves on. The mother wolf (or any other animal) ignores the runt of the litter and focuses her energy on those most likely to survive. 

And that is exactly what doctors are having to do - and did, in Italy. Due to limited resources, they have to decide who to focus their energy on i.e. who to put on scarce ventilators.

We are part of the animal kingdom and the same rules apply to us. The weak will die and the strong will survive to spawn another generation.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Chickenstrip (9/4/20)

Hooked said:


> I think that this virus is Nature's way of decreasing the population and although I agree that it's horrendous, it is simply what occurs in the animal kingdom. The weak are left behind to die while the herd moves on. The mother wolf (or any other animal) ignores the runt of the litter and focuses her energy on those most likely to survive.
> 
> And that is exactly what doctors are having to do - and did, in Italy. Due to limited resources, they have to decide who to focus their energy on i.e. who to put on scarce ventilators.
> 
> We are part of the animal kingdom and the same rules apply to us. The weak will die and the strong will survive to spawn another generation.



It's such a pity that IQ and strength don't correlate.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Raindance (9/4/20)

Chickenstrip said:


> It's such a pity that IQ and strength don't correlate.


The clever ones are staying at home snd taking precautions. 

Regards

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 4


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## Timwis (9/4/20)

That sad time again when i hear how many more in the UK have sadly lost their battle! 881 more deaths in the last 24 hours taking the total to 8,063. Good Friday isn't looking too Good unfortunately as it's going to be a Easter from Hell with the NHS near breaking point!

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Chickenstrip (9/4/20)

Our lockdown has been extended by 2 weeks. I suspect a further two-week extension will ensue. On an unrelated note does anyone know if it's safe to vape vanilla essence?

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Timwis (9/4/20)

Chickenstrip said:


> Our lockdown has been extended by 2 weeks. I suspect a further two-week extension will ensue. On an unrelated note does anyone know if it's safe to vape vanilla essence?


Some manufacturers use Essence including Vanilla instead of Concentrates but at a very low percentage so it would be like vaping pure concentrates so i wouldn't advise it!

Reactions: Like 1


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## RichJB (9/4/20)

Boris Johnson apparently out of ICU and feeling much better. Good job, Boris and the medical staff.

Reactions: Like 5 | Agree 2


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## Puff the Magic Dragon (10/4/20)

Hooked said:


> I think that this virus is Nature's way of decreasing the population



"Nature" is unguided and has no intention.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1


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## Raindance (10/4/20)

Puff the Magic Dragon said:


> "Nature" is unguided and has no intention.


Its a chain reaction of cause and effect. Events having their path mapped out at t = neither equal, smaller nor larger than zero.

Now my brain hurts...

Regards

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Adephi (10/4/20)



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## Hooked (10/4/20)

Timwis said:


> Some manufacturers use Essence including Vanilla instead of Concentrates but at a very low percentage so it would be like vaping pure concentrates so i wouldn't advise it!



@Chickenstrip and @Timwis 

Interesting question this.

Obviously Vanilla Essence couldn't be vaped as is i.e. without mixing it with VG/PG. 

However, if a DIYer has run out of concentrates, could Vanilla essence be used* in the same quantity* as stated in the vape juice recipe? IF it can, then could one not make their own juice for now, using VG bought from Clicks and a tiny, tiny drop of Vanilla Essence?

@Chickenstrip Why don't you post to the DIY forum? They might be able to help.


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## RichJB (10/4/20)

I suppose you could use supermarket food essences. The problem is that some of these are oil-based afaik. Avoiding coronavirus but dying from EVALI would be ironic.

I think it's unlikely that DIYers will run out of flavours. In my experience, one runs out of nic, VG and PG long before running out of flavours. Sure, you might run out of the flavour that is needed to make your favourite recipe, but you won't run out of flavours. You will have some flavour to add to a mix. There is no DIYer who will run out of Flv Rich Cinnamon ever. The bottle you bought in 2018 will be handed down from generation to generation as an heirloom. Your great-grandchildren will still be using it.

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## Timwis (10/4/20)

Latest update from the UK. 953 more deaths in the last 24 hours taking the total to 9,016. On course for Saturday seeing both over 1.000 in a day and total over 10.000 thresholds! This lockdown won't be weeks but months!

Reactions: Agree 2 | Informative 1


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## Timwis (10/4/20)

RichJB said:


> I suppose you could use supermarket food essences. The problem is that some of these are oil-based afaik. Avoiding coronavirus but dying from EVALI would be ironic.
> 
> I think it's unlikely that DIYers will run out of flavours. In my experience, one runs out of nic, VG and PG long before running out of flavours. Sure, you might run out of the flavour that is needed to make your favourite recipe, but you won't run out of flavours. You will have some flavour to add to a mix. There is no DIYer who will run out of Flv Rich Cinnamon ever. The bottle you bought in 2018 will be handed down from generation to generation as an heirloom. Your great-grandchildren will still be using it.


A couple of the manufacturers i get NET tobacco e-liquids from have ventured into flavours but using essences instead of flavourings to keep it all natural but that's the key they are natural essences so agree have to be careful and know exactly what your'e using. I never get involved with the DIY areas of forums as a rule because although i am a keen DIYer i come originally from a catering background using natural flare so i have never weighed out ingredients in my life, if i wanted to make a cake right now i simply use my eye and feel but the end result will be a cake as good as anybody's. I approach e-liquid DIY in the exact same manner so very slap dash in my approach yet get really good results but it doesn't make me the best person to give others advice!

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## Hooked (10/4/20)

So here's a question about flavourings. Vape juice flavourings are food-grade ... they say. If that is indeed true, then it must be safe to use them in food, right?

I want to make my own ice-cream, as our local Spar doesn't stock ice-cream for diabetics. Neither do I want to use fresh fruit, as it contains too much sugar. Could I not add a drop or two of vape juice flavouring?

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## Timwis (10/4/20)

Hooked said:


> So here's a question about flavourings. Vape juice flavourings are food-grade ... they say. If that is indeed true, then it must be safe to use them in food, right?
> 
> I want to make my own ice-cream, as our local Spar doesn't stock ice-cream for diabetics. Neither do I want to use fresh fruit, as it contains too much sugar. Could I not add a drop or two of vape juice flavouring?


Certainly at least most are fine as a lot of flavouring manufacturers Vaping have just adopted and some like Capella refuse to state they are suitable for vaping (just to cover their arses) so are actually food flavourings!

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## Timwis (10/4/20)

Timwis said:


> Certainly at least most are fine as a lot of flavouring manufacturers Vaping have just adopted and some like Capella refuse to state they are suitable for vaping (just to cover their arses) so are actually food flavourings!


To add to that PG has been a common carrier for food flavourings long before vaping was even a thing!

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1 | Informative 2


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## RichJB (10/4/20)

Hooked said:


> So here's a question about flavourings. Vape juice flavourings are food-grade ... they say. If that is indeed true, then it must be safe to use them in food, right?
> 
> I want to make my own ice-cream, as our local Spar doesn't stock ice-cream for diabetics. Neither do I want to use fresh fruit, as it contains too much sugar. Could I not add a drop or two of vape juice flavouring?



TFA, Capella, Flavor West, Inawera, Flavour Art, One On One, LorAnn, Real Flavors are all food flavouring companies. Vaping is just a sideline for their main business of selling to food & beverage companies. That is also what their flavours are certified safe by the FDA for - adding to food. So you can add any of these to food or drinks and be safe. 

I reckon that even vape-specific flavours like Flavorah will be safe. I can't see how any flavour that is OK to inhale would be harmful to ingest. Our stomachs are a lot tougher than our lungs.

A note of caution, though. A couple of drops in a bucket of ice cream won't be enough. I've dabbled with adding flavours I don't enjoy vaping to milk, to make a milkshake. It needs a fair amount. I don't know how much it would be for, say, a litre of ice cream. But I would imagine it would need several ml at least.

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## DougP (10/4/20)

Interesting comparisons






Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk

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## Chickenstrip (11/4/20)

@Adephi that video was kiff, thanks for laugh!

@Hooked I was completely joking about vanilla essence. I've read many articles (published in the days of the popcorn lung scare) that said that certain vanilla flavours with vanilla essence being the biggest culprit. Release a certain cancerous chemical. It was years ago. And I always assumed it was fairly common knowledge not to vape food flavouring from the store. Based on what @RichJB said about the oil content. So me asking was just a joke.

@Timwis I have plenty family over in the England and from what they tell me, your lock down measures are somewhat useless. People can still go to plenty of stores, they're going out to parks and beach's and going for runs. Especially with the "hot" 21° weather. That's bloody fireplace and hot water bottle weather you crazy bastards! I feel like your government has failed to enforce the lockdown. You guys have too much freedom which is why your rates are skyrocketing.

I've even been chatting to a policeman who's been getting very upset at how the citizens are not obeying the lockdown rules and he can do little to stop them. Yet he himself went to visit his best friend who also has cancer.

Another friend told me that all the Indian and Chinese run stores that sell "essentials" like bog roll and bandaids are allowed to stay open and they're mostly just being used for sweets, snacks, smokes and booze.

It's tragic that the UK is suffering so much. But how can they possibly expect any different with such lax laws and poor enforcement?

Our time will surely come too. But that will be due to ignorant citizens and overpopulation in the townships. I don't believe has done any less than what he should.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Adephi (11/4/20)

Chickenstrip said:


> @Hooked I was completely joking about vanilla essence. I've read many articles (published in the days of the popcorn lung scare) that said that certain vanilla flavours with vanilla essence being the biggest culprit. Release a certain cancerous chemical. It was years ago. And I always assumed it was fairly common knowledge not to vape food flavouring from the store. Based on what @RichJB said about the oil content. So me asking was just a joke.



You might have meant it as a joke but a few days ago people on our local facebook group was asking the same thing. Either vanilla essence in vape juice or vape vanilla flavoring in baking. Turns out there is quite a few diyers in my area.



Chickenstrip said:


> @Timwis I have plenty family over in the England and from what they tell me, your lock down measures are somewhat useless. People can still go to plenty of stores, they're going out to parks and beach's and going for runs. Especially with the "hot" 21° weather. That's bloody fireplace and hot water bottle weather you crazy bastards! I feel like your government has failed to enforce the lockdown. You guys have too much freedom which is why your rates are skyrocketing



Our strict rules has been our saving grace so far. But there is too much of a stigma going on in townships and people are not willing to get tested. But you can hide from the test but you can't hide from the virus. One week you ignore it, a week or 2 later they are digging mass graves. We see it both Italy, UK and USA.

And regarding the strict rules, it is irritating the crap out of me people shouting to relax to rules (especially a certain party thats been losing their marbles lately). Its not about just selling non essentials. If you do allow it you need to open the entire supply and production line. Thats more cars on the roads and more essential workers to be catered for who will spread the virus.

We all need to compromise here. If they allow the sale of wine and beer I will smile like everyone else. But until then my wife will just have to deal with vrot apples and pineapples fermenting away in the kitchen.

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## Hooked (11/4/20)

RichJB said:


> TFA, Capella, Flavor West, Inawera, Flavour Art, One On One, LorAnn, Real Flavors are all food flavouring companies. Vaping is just a sideline for their main business of selling to food & beverage companies. That is also what their flavours are certified safe by the FDA for - adding to food. So you can add any of these to food or drinks and be safe.
> 
> I reckon that even vape-specific flavours like Flavorah will be safe. I can't see how any flavour that is OK to inhale would be harmful to ingest. Our stomachs are a lot tougher than our lungs.
> 
> A note of caution, though. A couple of drops in a bucket of ice cream won't be enough. I've dabbled with adding flavours I don't enjoy vaping to milk, to make a milkshake. It needs a fair amount. I don't know how much it would be for, say, a litre of ice cream. But I would imagine it would need several ml at least.



Thanks very much @RichJB. I''ll give it a go after lockdown!!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Hooked (11/4/20)

Timwis said:


> To add to that PG has been a common carrier for food flavourings long before vaping was even a thing!



Interesting. I know that PG is used in medicines, but didn't know that it's used in food flavourings as well.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Hooked (11/4/20)

*Chilling Video Shows How Fast Coronavirus Spreads From A Single Cough In A Supermarket*
https://iheartintelligence.com/chil...-spreads-from-a-single-cough-in-a-supermarket

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Timwis (11/4/20)

Chickenstrip said:


> @Adephi that video was kiff, thanks for laugh!
> 
> @Hooked I was completely joking about vanilla essence. I've read many articles (published in the days of the popcorn lung scare) that said that certain vanilla flavours with vanilla essence being the biggest culprit. Release a certain cancerous chemical. It was years ago. And I always assumed it was fairly common knowledge not to vape food flavouring from the store. Based on what @RichJB said about the oil content. So me asking was just a joke.
> 
> ...


Where in UK i see that also on yahoo stories etc but where i live only supermarkets open and the picture they paint isn't the one i witness!

Reactions: Informative 3


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## Timwis (11/4/20)

Hooked said:


> Interesting. I know that PG is used in medicines, but didn't know that it's used in food flavourings as well.


Yes, in fact the food flavourings (ASDA own brand a supermarket) i have in the food cupboard at this moment are PG based!

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## Timwis (11/4/20)

Chickenstrip said:


> @Adephi that video was kiff, thanks for laugh!
> 
> @Hooked I was completely joking about vanilla essence. I've read many articles (published in the days of the popcorn lung scare) that said that certain vanilla flavours with vanilla essence being the biggest culprit. Release a certain cancerous chemical. It was years ago. And I always assumed it was fairly common knowledge not to vape food flavouring from the store. Based on what @RichJB said about the oil content. So me asking was just a joke.
> 
> ...


I would be asking "why" isn't that policeman enforcing it because he does have the powers unless he just turns a blind eye? Also Indian and Chinese convenience stores is a new one on me. I am 49 lived in many parts of the UK and visited just about every city and town and yes we have Indian convenience stores but i can't think of a single Chinese store i have seen, we have Chinese Food takeaways and i haven't seen one open!

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Chickenstrip (11/4/20)

Timwis said:


> I would be asking "why" isn't that policeman enforcing it because he does have the powers unless he just turns a blind eye? Also Indian and Chinese convenience stores is a new one on me. I am 49 lived in many parts of the UK and visited just about every city and town and yes we have Indian convenience stores but i can't think of a single Chinese store i have seen, we have Chinese Food takeaways and i haven't seen one open!



I don't live there. This is just what I've been told. And his reasoning was being outnumbered from what I recall. 

I'll ask again to clarify for you.


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## Timwis (11/4/20)

Chickenstrip said:


> I don't live there. This is just what I've been told. And his reasoning was being outnumbered from what I recall.
> 
> I'll ask again to clarify for you.


Yes i know, i meant what part of the UK was the person from? Obviously i can only go from my town and of course some rule breaks will always hit the news and be blown out of proportion as if it's the norm!


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## Timwis (11/4/20)

Timwis said:


> Yes i know, i meant what part of the UK was the person from? Obviously i can only go from my town and of course some rule breaks will always hit the news and be blown out of proportion as if it's the norm!


In fact if he's witnessing it personally and not going by a news headline here's food for thought he must be one of the rule breakers to know!


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## BumbleBee (14/4/20)

When this whole corona virus thing became known I had some theories, call them conspiracy theories if you like. I mostly kept them to myself because I had nothing to back up my suspicions. I’ve just watched this documentary that very clearly sums up what I was thinking when this all started. I highly recommend watching this all the way through, I especially liked the investigator’s closing thoughts about rethinking the way we lead our lives...

Reactions: Like 5 | Winner 1 | Informative 2


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## Dela Rey Steyn (14/4/20)

BumbleBee said:


> When this whole corona virus thing became known I had some theories, call them conspiracy theories if you like. I mostly kept them to myself because I had nothing to back up my suspicions. I’ve just watched this documentary that very clearly sums up what I was thinking when this all started. I highly recommend watching this all the way through, I especially liked the investigator’s closing thoughts about rethinking the way we lead our lives...




Very interesting documentary @BumbleBee.

Whether it is 100% factual I highly doubt. I have long said that the Chinese Communist Party is a total destructive force, but I honestly believe that this documentary is very politically driven.
There is a lot of truth in the "findings" but a lot more speculation. As soon as they said "Obama" I took the rest with a pinch or two of salt. This is a comment I got from another viewer of the video, and she is correct on the Australian footage and that the virus is a mutated strain from the same Corona virus family that was originally discovered in the 1930's: "
Contrary to the statements being made in this documentary 60 Minutes Australia showed wild animals including bats being butchered & the meat sold in Wuhan Seafood Market. Also, this virus is suspected to have spread from pangolins to humans butchering them. This was all filmed by 60 Minutes Australia. So, statements saying the virus didn't originate at the Wuhan Seafood Market.
Of course, the figures they submit would be true, as all coronavirus originates with bats. It's transmitted to other animals then, to humans who butcher &/or consume wild animals carrying the virus.
Of course the coronavirus resembles SARS. IT IS A MUTATED VERSION OF SARS JUST LIKE MERS IS."

Another observation is that some of the expert footage is heavily spliced, almost cherry picking what they want. 

And then the source of the video, The Epoch Times, has a major political drive:
" 
The Epoch Times - "It was founded in 2000 by John Tang and a group of Chinese Americans associated with the Falun Gong spiritual movement.[Though the newspaper is known for general interest topics with a focus on news about China and its human rights issues, it has become known for its support of U.S. President Donald Trump and favorable coverage of far-right politicians in Europe; a 2019 report showed it to be the second-largest funder of pro-Trump Facebook advertising after the Trump campaign"

It's and interesting video, and there is some truth to it, but I honestly don't think it's definitive. 

Closing thought:
"By comparing the available genome sequence data for known coronavirus strains, we can firmly determine that SARS-CoV-2 originated through natural processes"
https://rdcu.be/b3ybQ

Great find though @BumbleBee, it's refreshing to see theories and explanations not including 5G towers. It is very well put together and very thought provoking. We always try and support non-made in China merchandise wherever we can. And I can urge everyone to do so. Communism is a big threat to the world.

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## blujeenz (14/4/20)

BumbleBee said:


> When this whole corona virus thing became known I had some theories, call them conspiracy theories if you like. I mostly kept them to myself because I had nothing to back up my suspicions. I’ve just watched this documentary that very clearly sums up what I was thinking when this all started. I highly recommend watching this all the way through, I especially liked the investigator’s closing thoughts about rethinking the way we lead our lives...




Its pretty comprehensive, but they left out the bit where Dr Shi Zheng-Li studied "gain-of-function" at University of North Carolina's Chapel Hill BSL3 lab.
She along with other folk from Harvard, Switzerland and UNC created the Sars Cov 2 back in 2015, using the original 2003 sars cells obtained from Fort Detrick. Incidentally she received grants from both the Chinese and US govts.
Basically gain of function in this instance, means to make the original virus more deadly. They did that using elements of HIV and MERS which is the "chimeric" part that she refers to in her papers that she published in Nature Medicine. 
It was also written in the paper that it was extremely resistant to the usual methods of monoclonal antibody and vaccines





Dr Rashid A Buttar broke it down for the layman to understand in a video titled Scientific corruption Part3 which has now been taken down to protect his 1st amendment rights and put behind a private, invite only site. 
I happened to see it about 2 weeks ago while it was still up.
I took screenshots so as to trace and verify his sauce docs.

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## blujeenz (14/4/20)

Dela Rey Steyn said:


> Very interesting documentary @BumbleBee.
> 
> 
> Closing thought:
> ...



I disagree with that statement, the novel spike on the new virus contains a furin like cleavage which is absent on all other bat virus's of the same clade. It is therefore 100% chimeric engineered in a lab. A bat cannot acquire HIV and meld it into a new sars strain or it would have done so back in the early 2000's when the first bat sars strains started appearing.

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## Dela Rey Steyn (14/4/20)

blujeenz said:


> I disagree with that statement, the novel spike on the new virus contains a furin like cleavage which is absent on all other bat virus's of the same clade. It is therefore 100% chimeric engineered in a lab. A bat cannot acquire HIV and meld it into a new sars strain or it would have done so back in the early 2000's when the first bat sars strains started appearing.


Did you read the article in the link?


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## blujeenz (14/4/20)

Dela Rey Steyn said:


> Did you read the article in the link?


Yes.


> However, the genetic data irrefutably show that SARSCoV-2 is not derived from any previously used virus backbone20. Instead, we propose two scenarios that can plausibly explain the origin of SARS-CoV-2:





> Neither the bat betacoronaviruses nor the pangolin betacoronaviruses sampled thus far have polybasic cleavage sites. Although no animal coronavirus has been identified that is sufficiently similar to have served as the direct progenitor of SARS-CoV-2, the diversity of coronaviruses in bats and other species is massively undersampled



It contradicts statements in Dr Zheng-Li's paper and she should know because she helped create it.

Taken from another source.


> In an article published in _Nature Medicine_1 on 9 November, scientists investigated a virus called SHC014, which is found in horseshoe bats in China. The researchers created a chimaeric virus, made up of a surface protein of SHC014 and the backbone of a SARS virus that had been adapted to grow in mice and to mimic human disease. The chimaera infected human airway cells — proving that the surface protein of SHC014 has the necessary structure to bind to a key receptor on the cells and to infect them. It also caused disease in mice, but did not kill them.

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## Dela Rey Steyn (14/4/20)

blujeenz said:


> Yes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Informative!

Here is that specific source:
https://www.nature.com/news/engineered-bat-virus-stirs-debate-over-risky-research-1.18787

Reactions: Like 2


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## blujeenz (14/4/20)

Dela Rey Steyn said:


> Informative!
> 
> Here is that specific source:
> https://www.nature.com/news/engineered-bat-virus-stirs-debate-over-risky-research-1.18787


Thats the one.
I wonder how that twit in the comments feels now, he couldnt understand why people are preoccupied with gain of function research.


> C Narayana Varun • 2015-11-18 06:00 AM I totally don't understand the logic of how Gain of function is a dangerous experiment,

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## Adephi (14/4/20)

So some scientists say its bat-made and some say its man-made...

Reactions: Funny 5


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## Dela Rey Steyn (14/4/20)

Adephi said:


> So some scientists say its bat-made and some say its man-made...


Jip, whether it was man or bat made, we'll probably never now until the truth surfaces. But for now at least I think it is safe to assume a.) it wasn't caused by 5G and b.) it is devastating. And I hope the world as a collective recovers from this ASAP. All we can do now is our part in slowing it down and doing our best not to help spread it. SWAMBO and her team of nurses at the hospital share a great manta from the medical world regarding COVID19: Don't fear the disease, fear the spread!

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## Christos (14/4/20)

Dela Rey Steyn said:


> Jip, whether it was man or bat made, we'll probably never now until the truth surfaces. But for now at least I think it is safe to assume a.) it wasn't caused by 5G and b.) it is devastating. And I hope the world as a collective recovers from this ASAP. All we can do now is our part in slowing it down and doing our best not to help spread it. SWAMBO and her team of nurses at the hospital share a great manta from the medical world regarding COVID19: Don't fear the disease, fear the spread!



Just make sure before you spread you get paid....
So many customers walk off with no payment if you spread without collecting payment first.

Reactions: Funny 5


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## Dela Rey Steyn (14/4/20)



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## Hooked (15/4/20)

Dela Rey Steyn said:


> View attachment 194064



But lockdown has already been extended to end of April, so the week of 10 - 16 April is irrelevant, or am I missing something?


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## Adephi (15/4/20)

Hooked said:


> But lockdown has already been extended to end of April, so the week of 10 - 16 April is irrelevant, or am I missing something?



Prof Karrim explained on Monday night that if the number of new cases per day is more than 90 on average between 10 and 16 April then it highly recommend that the lockdown gets extended as is. And at the moment its not looking too good.

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## Adephi (15/4/20)

Hooked said:


> But lockdown has already been extended to end of April, so the week of 10 - 16 April is irrelevant, or am I missing something?



In case you missed it, here is the video.

Quite lengthy but the whole situation was so well explained. Its worth a watch.

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 2


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## Hooked (16/4/20)

*Employee at Dis-Chem in Jhb tests positive for coronavirus*
https://www.all4women.co.za/1997025...is-chem-in-jhb-tests-positive-for-coronavirus
15 April 2020

"Dis-Chem has confirmed the closure of its Athol Oaklands branch in the BluBird Shopping Centre in Johannesburg after a staff member tested positive for coronavirus
On Tuesday, the pharmacy group said in a statement “all necessary protocols were immediately implemented”, while the infected employee was “sent home to self-isolate and seek medical care”.

“The store was closed today and a professional cleaning service, complete with staff in hazmat suits, has been brought in to thoroughly deep clean the whole shop,” the company added.

*Reopen
The branch is expected to reopen on Friday.*

“All colleagues working closely with the staff member have been tested and are being monitored on an ongoing basis for symptoms and those who have been in close contact are now self-isolating..."

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Hooked (16/4/20)

*Petrol stations ask South Africans to wear masks in stores*
https://www.businessinsider.co.za/petrol-stations-masks-2020-4
15 April 2020

*"The South African Petroleum Retailers Association (SAPRA), which represents 750 fuel stations, has requested that all customers wear masks when they enter convenience stores.*

This follows government advice that South Africans should start wearing cloth masks to help limit the spread of Covid-19.

"Wearing masks is important. We want to recommend widespread use of masks,” health minister Zweli Mkhize said last week. “We are recommending that people use cloth masks and just make sure there's a three-layer kind of thing," he said during a briefing on Friday.

SAPRA director Vishal Premlall said in a statement on Wednesday that the masks could help protect customers as well as workers at petrol stations. "As essential workers, employees at petrol stations don’t have the option of staying home. Instead, they risk their health every day, not only on public transport to reach the workplace, but also serving hundreds of customers who may or may not be infected. "That’s why our request to wear masks is a serious one.”

“While we cannot enforce this as we know some customers don’t have the materials to make their own masks or cannot afford to purchase one, *we have made it possible for customers to purchase the goods they require without entering the forecourt shop by ordering through the cashier’s window,”* said Premlall.

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## Hooked (16/4/20)

*Thousands Protest At Michigan State Capitol Defying The Strict Social Distancing Orders*
https://iheartintelligence.com/thou...l-defying-the-strict-social-distancing-orders

The people protesting believe the new order is violating their freedom, as Mail Online reports.
Moreover, the protesters insisted that they are grown people, and they can decide for themselves when it comes to protecting themselves from coronavirus.

_[My comment: Unbelievable!!!]_


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## Dela Rey Steyn (16/4/20)

Hooked said:


> *Thousands Protest At Michigan State Capitol Defying The Strict Social Distancing Orders*
> https://iheartintelligence.com/thou...l-defying-the-strict-social-distancing-orders
> 
> The people protesting believe the new order is violating their freedom, as Mail Online reports.
> ...



My father always said: "Dronk raak nugter, maar Dom kom nooit weer reg nie." A drunk can get sober, but an imbecile can never come right" You just can't cure stupid @Hooked!

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## Adephi (17/4/20)



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## Dela Rey Steyn (22/4/20)



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## Chickenstrip (23/4/20)

Personally I think it escaped the lab and the wet market was a convenient, plausible, difficult to disprove scapegoat. But that's not based on fact in way, just what seems most likely to me. I'm perfectly happy with wet markets taking the fall in any case. Not a fan of those.

Also bush did 9/11 and Epstein didn't kill himself.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1 | Funny 1


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## Chickenstrip (23/4/20)

Trump announces to public that he cannot confirm whether or not the current pandemic can be linked to 5G rollout.

*https://tinyurl.com/dymbb3a*

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## Grand Guru (23/4/20)

Chickenstrip said:


> Trump announces to public that he cannot confirm whether or not the current pandemic can be linked to 5G rollout.
> 
> *https://tinyurl.com/dymbb3a*

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## Resistance (23/4/20)

Chickenstrip said:


> Personally I think it escaped the lab and the wet market was a convenient, plausible, difficult to disprove scapegoat. But that's not based on fact in way, just what seems most likely to me. I'm perfectly happy with wet markets taking the fall in any case. Not a fan of those.
> 
> Also bush did 9/11 and Epstein didn't kill himself.


I have some ideas of my own. With all the conspiracy theories out there and a few countries heavily focused on blaming one particular country, I will wait to see what's the outcome.
All I will however say is the air we breathe isn't the same. Everytime I go out I get a buzzing irritating headache when I'm outside and when I return I feel light headed. Now in my household I'm not the only one experiencing this. For now I'll stick to virus.

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## Stranger (23/4/20)

Ha Ha and they laughed at me with my gloves, mask and tin foil hat at Spar.

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## Stranger (23/4/20)

For me, there is no such coincidence as it came out of a wet market. There is evidence to show that bat corona viruses were being worked on in the Wuhan lab and that research was being done on bat to human transmissions. Given governments around the world constantly and consistently hide information from the public, I think this is the case. That virus was being worked on and it got out. I don't think I am falling for the weaponizing of the virus or that it was intentional. Like all the good movies, it got out accidentally and the cover up started.

We are our worst enemies and are still cavemen regardless of how clever our vape devices have become. We spend more time, energy and money on ways to kill each other than on world peace. There are still madmen among us who believe war (in any form, including bio weapons) are a solution.

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## Carnival (23/4/20)

Resistance said:


> No, its only by contact that you can get it.
> The problem is this is that it's out there, comes from the same region and it's flooding my news feed.
> So is it something to worry about or can it be overcome with little impact.



It's airborne. You can get it if someone coughs/sneezes and you walk past where they coughed/sneezed.

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## Resistance (23/4/20)

"We are our worst enemies and are still cavemen regardless of how clever our vape devices have become. We spend more time, energy and money on ways to kill each other than on world peace. There are still madmen among us who believe war (in any form, including bio weapons) are a solution"
Agree... So much is being spent on maintaining things that doesn't really matter instead of things that can change the world for the better.

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## Resistance (24/4/20)

"
Trump pledged to send “thousands” of ventilators and other equipment to SA. The details of which are yet to be finalised

“President Trump has pledged his support to SA and Africa in general in the fight against the coronavirus,” Diko said.

The ‘elephant in the room’ — Trump’s decision to withhold support from the WHO — was not discussed in the meeting."
I hope they finalize the details asap.
https://news-af.feednews.com/news/detail/a37fab671dc489ff80a68d38f6316c99?client=news

Reactions: Informative 2


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## Adephi (24/4/20)

Found this interesting map from the CSIR.

It's based on the vulnerability index that takes into concideration current infections, infrastructure (hospitals, health services and access to them) and how the community adhere to lockdown regulations. How they calculate it I don't know. But it is interesting nonetheless.

Reactions: Like 1 | Can relate 1 | Informative 3


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## Hooked (25/4/20)

Adephi said:


> Found this interesting map from the CSIR.
> 
> It's based on the vulnerability index that takes into concideration current infections, infrastructure (hospitals, health services and access to them) and how the community adhere to lockdown regulations. How they calculate it I don't know. But it is interesting nonetheless.



Very interesting, thanks @Adephi

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## Adephi (25/4/20)

Finally a video from Morgan Freeman.


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## Adephi (29/4/20)



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## Resistance (5/8/20)



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