# Salt Nic and Diy



## Hardtail1969

So i ordered some saltnic for my DIY, and now i am unsure.

I have purchased saltnic juices before, and their ratings system seems to differ from other commercial juices.

Where one sees 3mg or 6mg on a normal juice bottle, on a saltnic this has changed to 2.5% or 25mg/ml

This makes me ask, whether one would have to calculate the percentage differently when using saltnic in a diy recipe or not?

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## alex1501

Hardtail1969 said:


> So i ordered some saltnic for my DIY, and now i am unsure.
> 
> I have purchased saltnic juices before, and their ratings system seems to differ from other commercial juices.
> 
> Where one sees 3mg or 6mg on a normal juice bottle, on a saltnic this has changed to 2.5% or 25mg/ml
> 
> This makes me ask, whether one would have to calculate the percentage differently when using saltnic in a diy recipe or not?


 
It all depends on what is your usual juice. For example, if you are use to 3mg on DTL device then you stick to 3mg. If you get proper MTL setup and wish to try higher nic level, then slowly up your percentages to 9 or 12mg and see how you handle it.
Those very high nicotine juices are made for low power MTL setups and they would be very dangerous on a dripper or a subohm tank with a high juice consumption.

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## Hardtail1969

alex1501 said:


> It all depends on what is your usual juice. For example, if you are use to 3mg on DTL device then you stick to 3mg. If you get proper MTL setup and wish to try higher nic level, then slowly up your percentages to 9 or 12mg and see how you handle it.
> Those very high nicotine juices are made for low power MTL setups and they would be very dangerous on a dripper or a subohm tank with a high juice consumption.



You say dangerous? please elaborate?

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## Lingogrey

Hardtail1969 said:


> You say dangerous? please elaborate?


Besides the possibility of getting a "Silver" if you up your nic considerably in a DTL low ohm setup (https://www.ecigssa.co.za/doing-a-silver-what-does-this-mean.t4335/#post-98047), it seems that there are other dangers to salt based nicotine when used at high power for DTL. It is apparently only suitable for lower temperature MTL vaping: https://www.ecigssa.co.za/nicotine-salts-vs-freebase.t43442/#post-597958

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## alex1501

Lingogrey said:


> Besides the possibility of getting a "Silver" if you up your nic considerably in a DTL low ohm setup (https://www.ecigssa.co.za/doing-a-silver-what-does-this-mean.t4335/#post-98047), it seems that there are other dangers to salt based nicotine when used at high power for DTL. It is apparently only suitable for lower temperature MTL vaping: https://www.ecigssa.co.za/nicotine-salts-vs-freebase.t43442/#post-597958



Second that

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## Hardtail1969

ok, i understand your concerns.

What are your thoughts on the following setup:

asmodus running at 50w on a.20 ohm build, in a voluna tank with 25mg/ml salt nic juice?


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## alex1501

Hardtail1969 said:


> ok, i understand your concerns.
> 
> What are your thoughts on the following setup:
> 
> asmodus running at 50w on a.20 ohm build, in a voluna tank with 25mg/ml salt nic juice?



I would make sure that I'm on the nice sofa during testing. Wouldn't try it while driving. Almost sure it's to strong setup for it.

Probably not a best person judge the new wave of high nicotine juices. I was going from 18mg down to 2mg over period of 2 years and I see no reason to go back to some high nicotine levels now.

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## KrayFish404

Hardtail1969 said:


> ok, i understand your concerns.
> 
> What are your thoughts on the following setup:
> 
> asmodus running at 50w on a.20 ohm build, in a voluna tank with 25mg/ml salt nic juice?



No, 0.2 ohm = sub ohm

Best stick to normal nicotine with high temperatures / direct to lung / low ohm setups.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## IVapesDaNicotine

Sub=under (eg. subterranean,subliminal,submarine), Ohm=1.0+Ohm, Sub-Ohm=<1.0 Ohm


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## Hardtail1969

I must admit, your take is interesting and differs significantly from other sites and information available on salt nic and it’s uses and potential dangers. So far I have not found a source that verifies your opinions on these dangers, but have found only one that states the use of acid in juice manufacture for the juul device. 


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## alex1501

Hardtail1969 said:


> I must admit, your take is interesting and differs significantly from other sites and information available on salt nic and it’s uses and potential dangers. So far I have not found a source that verifies your opinions on these dangers, but have found only one that states the use of acid in juice manufacture for the juul device.



Benzoic acid to help with absorption of nicotine.




"When using Nicotine Salt e-liquid, it’s important to be aware of potential dangers, some of which are generalized to all nicotine e-liquid, and some specific to Nicotine Salt.
Keep any nicotine products in a safe place where children and pets cannot access them—any kind of nicotine can be fatal if ingested by children or pets.
If you get any nicotine e-liquid on your skin, wash it immediately with warm water and soap—nicotine can irritate the skin, and in cases of high concentration, can lead to burns.
*Only use Nicotine Salt e-liquid with a low wattage device—due to the smoothness and almost immediate absorption rate of Nicotine Salt e-liquid, nicotine overdose can be possible when ingested, vaped rapidly or used in a high wattage, sub-ohm device.* Be on the lookout for signs of nicotine overdose, including:

Headache
Nausea and/or vomiting
Light-headedness
Muscle twitching/tremors
If you are experiencing these symptoms severely, please seek immediate medical treatment."

Source:
https://vapers.180smoke.com/t/freebase-vs-salt-nicotine-whats-the-difference/907

Sure there is more, but nothing can compete with personal experience, so you can always find a good sofa and give it a go.

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## zandernwn

Vaping nic salts in a plus ohm and sub 20w setting is considered as safe free nicotine.. When you vape nic salts at lower ohm and higher watts is may release benzine as by product.. The amount of benzine is between 150 - 5000 micrograms. 

This is very low compared to a traditional cigarette which release around 200000 micrograms. 

When they measure the benzine levels in a pod system designed foe nic salts bezine was measured ND (not detectable)

Its not only safer to vape nic salts at the recommended setting but nic salts are only effective when the vapour measures at a specific vapour pressure band and because nic salts vapourize at a lower temp than freebase nicotine the desired vapour pressure is reached at a lower temprature. 

Nic salts are not as effective at high temps so you defeat the purpose vaping it at high temps. 

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## zandernwn

You would be hard pressed to vape more than 5ml of nic salts a day in a pod system.. Overdosing on nic is unlikely. 

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## Andre

zandernwn said:


> Vaping nic salts in a plus ohm and sub 20w setting is considered as safe free nicotine.. When you vape nic salts at lower ohm and higher watts is may release benzine as by product.. The amount of benzine is between 150 - 5000 micrograms.
> 
> This is very low compared to a traditional cigarette which release around 200000 micrograms.
> 
> When they measure the benzine levels in a pod system designed foe nic salts bezine was measured ND (not detectable)
> 
> Its not only safer to vape nic salts at the recommended setting but nic salts are only effective when the vapour measures at a specific vapour pressure band and because nic salts vapourize at a lower temp than freebase nicotine the desired vapour pressure is reached at a lower temprature.
> 
> Nic salts are not as effective at high temps so you defeat the purpose vaping it at high temps.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


Very informative, thank you. I do find nic salts imparts a different taste to my juice, which I do not like.

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## Timwis

My understanding of nic salts is the nicotine is more efficient and gets into your system quicker. I take it 25mg/ml is the nic base not the finished juice. When it comes to mixing juices i'm under the impression you need less with salts to get the dose your body wants while has less of a peppery taste that freebase has so you should get better flavour e-juice. If i was using 6mg using freebase, then switched to salts i would mix at 3mg just as an example.


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## zandernwn

Andre said:


> Very informative, thank you. I do find nic salts imparts a different taste to my juice, which I do not like.


Its all depends on the formulation.. But some may have that tangy sharpness which is what i assume you taste

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## zandernwn

Timwis said:


> My understanding of nic salts is the nicotine is more efficient and gets into your system quicker. I take it 25mg/ml is the nic base not the finished juice. When it comes to mixing juices i'm under the impression you need less with salts to get the dose your body wants while has less of a peppery taste that freebase has so you should get better flavour e-juice. If i was using 6mg using freebase, then switched to salts i would mix at 3mg just as an example.


No this is the nicotine concentration in the final product.. Nic salts are commonly mixed in 15,25 & 35 sometimes even up to 59mgml.

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## Timwis

zandernwn said:


> No this is the nicotine concentration in the final product.. Nic salts are commonly mixed in 15,25 & 35 sometimes even up to 59mgml.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


Wow that's high, i find it very confusing as what i've read is it gets into your system quicker, the one's i've used only give you the choice of 3mg / 6mg. They use sage nicotine salts are they different?


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## zandernwn

Timwis said:


> Wow that's high, i find it very confusing as what i've read is it gets into your system quicker, the one's i've used only give you the choice of 3mg / 6mg. They use sage nicotine salts are they different?


Yes but in a plus ohm device at 8-20w you will vape only about 3ml nic salts a day - and thats a lot!!! 

Nic salts is the closest thing to replicating the nicotine delivery of a traditional cigarette

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## zandernwn

It does promote nicotine delivery.. But like a said in an earlier post.... For it to work the vapor pressure needs to be just right, the correct acid-base mist be bound to the deprotonated nicotine and the temps low.. Then it work.. Else you defeat the ourpose of using nic salts altogether. 

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## Timwis

zandernwn said:


> Yes but in a plus ohm device at 8-20w you will vape only about 3ml nic salts a day - and thats a lot!!!
> 
> Nic salts is the closest thing to replicating the nicotine delivery of a traditional cigarette
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


So the ones i have tried from Beyond vape are only 3mg/6mg because their high VG meant for sub-ohm vaping?


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## Hardtail1969

I have asked this question of many people, and the responses I receive from others differ. 

I have used nic salts in my own mixes, as well as the usual nic, and have bought nic salt juice from international manufacturers and have used these in my drippers and squonkers.

Only the one brand of international juice, Vaped in a rda, at 50w gave me a strong throat hit, my own mixes at 3mg vaped in the same manner as normal juices.

As to physical effects, I have yet to notice anything major, except perhaps for less of a need to vape as much as with normal nic.

To me, and this is not scientific, but just my own opinion, shared by others I have spoken to, is that using the nic salts, lessens the cravings more effectively.

As for the benzoic acid, I have heard two explanations. 

1. It is used only in the pod systems, due to the low wattage.
2. It is not present in the nic salt purchase for diy use.




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## zandernwn

It is extremely likely that benzoates are used in the majority of nic salts. 

I suppose you can drip it or vape it at high ohms but this is very likely to expose you to some of the harmful chemicals or maybe not depending on the type of acid-base used. And as with daap that really is a personal choice some people mind, others dont especially if they used to be smokers. 

But in terms of how nicotine salts physically interact with heat to deliver nicotime into your system then it is most effective in a high ohm low watt setting.. Improved delivery is a function of vapor pressure and the bound acid-base... And benoates are most effective for this purpose. 

I mean i am also no expert but i have spent the better part of the last 3 months reading extensively on the topic.. So I can only really recite the information i picked up. 

As for commercial nic salts.. Some of them may use alternative acid bases and you may not be exposed to benzines.. Ejuice manufacturers are likely not willing to disclose the acid base used. So i dont think that should be assumed. 

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## Andre

zandernwn said:


> Its all depends on the formulation.. But some may have that tangy sharpness which is what i assume you taste
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


If only, I love tangy. More of a gaseous, household cleaner sort of taste. I get it from both the pods and DIY made from nic salts.

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## zandernwn

Andre said:


> If only, I love tangy. More of a gaseous, household cleaner sort of taste. I get it from both the pods and DIY made from nic salts.


Lol thats sounds about right

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## Marek_710

Might be a goose question but really want to know if this is possible 

Can you bump a standard 0MG store bought juice with salt nic without majorly effecting the flavour ?

Basically trying to make a "red pill salt nic" for MTL


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## daniel craig

Marek_710 said:


> Might be a goose question but really want to know if this is possible
> 
> Can you bump a standard 0MG store bought juice with salt nic without majorly effecting the flavour ?
> 
> Basically trying to make a "red pill salt nic" for MTL


It should dilute it depending on the strength you are after. Some salt nicotine are not 100% tasteless.

I would rather go to VM website and select the 'Modify your juice' option and get a custom 50/50 VG/PG, 12/18/24mg strength juice instead.

This is a better, cheaper option and the throat hit with a freebase juice is just that much better. You won't get as much nicotine in your system but it's still a very enjoyable vape.

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## Marek_710

You knew my style of vaping better i did myself XD im not too much after the "Buzz" But more that throat hit and 50/50 12MG sounds right up my ally.

Thank you for the great advice @daniel craig

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## daniel craig

Marek_710 said:


> You knew my style of vaping better i did myself XD im not too much after the "Buzz" But more that throat hit and 50/50 12MG sounds right up my ally.
> 
> Thank you for the great advice @daniel craig


You won't go wrong with VM's choice. The throat hit is so much better with the freebase option and it works out cheaper than salt Eliquids. I've tried their high strength and it's good stuff.

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## Silver

Hi @Marek_710 

I will second what @daniel craig is saying. Higher nic from Vapour Mountain with normal nicotine is great for MTL purposes. Have been using their higher nic versions of a few of their juices for years with great effect.

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## Stew

Good reading. Thanks all.

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