# Thick and weird wire



## kimbo (14/9/16)

Me and @hands were talking this morning and we could not understand the thing about thick wire, or clapton or some weird wire. Let me explain

We both started with quite a small device and recoiled with 32guage wire, both of us were heavy smokers and even with that thin wire in the small tanks the vape was very satisfying, i mean if it was not vaping would have never done it for me.

A wile ago the only ppl that really did the thick / weird wire were the cloud chasers.

I coiled my Kayfun yesterday with a clapton, but later i replaced it with a normal 28guage single coil, and i must say the vape for me is even more satisfying, i can take a five, seven second drag and really taste the nice juice. There is no ramp up time, the coil cools down fast, the tank dont heat up. I dont have to crank my mod to the extremes so that the poor battery dies 3, 4 hours later, but i can go comfortable for a full day and even more.

Personal view: What is the fascination with getting as much vaper as you can as fast as possible in your lungs before the atty is so hot that it burns you lips.

We are convinced we are doing something wrong

Reactions: Like 5 | Agree 5 | Can relate 3


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## Silver (14/9/16)

Hi @kimbo
I hear you

In my experience and for the way i vape i have found that thinner 28g wire suits me better than the thicker gauges. I find the thinner wire has all the advantages you point out (faster ramp etc) but the main reason I like it is that it gives me a "crisper" and somewhat "sharper" vape.

When I try the thicker wire I tend to get a more rounded, "broader" and less sharp vape. Its a bit "blunt".

I think the reason I like my sharpness has to do with the flavours I like which for me work better when they are crisp and sharp. Menthols, fruity menthols and tobaccoes. To me they just taste better this way.

That said, i have used several thicker gauge setups and enjoyed them throoughly on several juices but those are normally exceptions.

Fascinating stuff

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 2


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## hands (14/9/16)

I was in the workshop last night and needed to recoil but was to lazy to walk to the house to go get wire and the only wire i had in there was 30g so i did my normal coiling but using the thinner wire and to my surprise it vapes really nicely. Normally i would use 28g 15-25 watt for my style of vaping( slow and long inhale and even longer exhale) and i have tried many times with thicker wire, fancy coils cranking up the wattage but then a few minutes later i would rip it out and use my normal wire and take the wattage down. With my setup i do get more than enough flavor and cloud production. We might be doing it wrong but having a hell of a good time doing it

Reactions: Like 7 | Winner 1 | Can relate 2 | Creative 1


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## Silver (14/9/16)

hands said:


> I was in the workshop last night and needed to recoil but was to lazy to walk to the house to go get wire and the only wire i had in there was 30g so i did my normal coiling but using the thinner wire and to my surprise it vapes really nicely. Normally i would use 28g 15-25 watt for my style of vaping( slow and long inhale and even longer exhale) and i have tried many times with thicker wire, fancy coils cranking up the wattage but then a few minutes later i would rip it out and use my normal wire and take the wattage down. With my setup i do get more than enough flavor and cloud production. We might be doing it wrong but having a hell of a good time doing it



We not doing it wrong @hands
If one tries many things and enjoys a certain type of vape then one is winning!
I think the issue is to try lots of things and discover what works best for you.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 8


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## Genosmate (14/9/16)

I agree with the OP,check my coil making stuff for my squonkers @kimbo and @hands .Fancy paper clip jig,wire and enough wick (for both squonkers that I run daily) to last for at least a year.Dry burn once a week and vape. @Silver you can't get simpler than that for your 'simple month'.

Reactions: Like 4 | Winner 2 | Creative 1


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## kimbo (14/9/16)

I spoke to quit a few new vapers and they did not believe i vape thin wire at low wattage and i get so much battery life, so i asked them why are they vaping like that (thick wire/ high watts) and i came to realize some ppl use it as a sales thing. 

New vaper comes to your shop, your tell him he needs a 150, 200 watt mod to drive the thick wire (you get the sale for the expensive mod.
Now that mod with the tank/dripper goes through juice at the huge rate, so you get the repeat business of that vaper will come back shortly to buy juice again and again

Reactions: Agree 2


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## Cespian (14/9/16)

26g N80 is my go to wire. 

If I go dual coil, I bump down to 24g. Single coils between 26g and 30g in either Kanthal or N80. 
I am not fond of Claptons and Twisted because I use my SMPL (and recently the Wraith) whole day err day, and I am terribly lazy for changing batteries and keeping the button for 67 years before those coils ramp up. 

What I've noticed is that people who have been introduced to vaping recently on newer subohm technologies generally go for these big builds and lower gauge wires. I mean, I started on the old twisps and cigalikes where low wattage was the only thing available and I am pretty sure this is the case with you guys too.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2


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## Neal (14/9/16)

Have to agree with @kimbo on this one. I have gone back to 28g and 0.7ish ohms on my builds after trying the current trend of claptons etc. at high watts, and am well happy with the vape. All very subjective of course, but I think we have perhaps come to a plateau with the advancement of our vaping gear, and the manufacturers are now running out of ideas on any real way forward. I am sure there are many forumites who will disagree, but for me I am happy with a single coil build at 25-30w. All very subjective as mentioned, whatever works for anybody is cool with me.

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 2 | Can relate 1


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## Rob Fisher (14/9/16)

What an interesting thread... I too have held onto 28g and 26g single coils for a long time... I have also tried the claptons and other fancy coils without much luck. But I must say I am absolutely loving 24g Nichrome both in single and dual coils... Not sure if it's the build or the Serpent Mini 25 or a combination of both... since getting my 2 Serpent 25's I haven't touched anything else except for the occasional tootle puff on my REO's. Even my beloved Melo 3 Mini's with cCells are being neglected... maybe it's a passing phase because the flavour is different... but for now I'm in a very happy phase of my vaping journey.

Reactions: Like 4 | Can relate 1


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## Cespian (14/9/16)

Rob Fisher said:


> What an interesting thread... I too have held onto 28g and 26g single coils for a long time... I have also tried the claptons and other fancy coils without much luck. But I must say I am absolutely loving 24g Nichrome both in single and dual coils... Not sure if it's the build or the Serpent Mini 25 or a combination of both... since getting my 2 Serpent 25's I haven't touched anything else except for the occasional tootle puff on my REO's. Even my beloved Melo 3 Mini's with cCells are being neglected... maybe it's a passing phase because the flavour is different... but for now I'm in a very happy phase of my vaping journey.



Im noticing the same thing. Nichrome gives me superior flavour, in both 24 and 26g. I also thought it was a mind thing, but I am glad I'm not alone. 

my vaping buddies already know and start laughing when I get something new. Theyre like: "Guess what Cespian's putting in his new Atty tonight... LOLOLOLOLOL #CloudsBro #Rolo250watts"

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1 | Funny 1


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## kimbo (14/9/16)

Rob Fisher said:


> What an interesting thread... I too have held onto 28g and 26g single coils for a long time... I have also tried the claptons and other fancy coils without much luck. But I must say I am absolutely loving 24g Nichrome both in single and dual coils... Not sure if it's the build or the Serpent Mini 25 or a combination of both... since getting my 2 Serpent 25's I haven't touched anything else except for the occasional tootle puff on my REO's. Even my beloved Melo 3 Mini's with cCells are being neglected... maybe it's a passing phase because the flavour is different... but for now I'm in a very happy phase of my vaping journey.


@Rob Fisher i am trying 24g Nichrome in the kayfun now, and for me it acts very much like 28g kanthal (28g kanthal 2mm ID 5 wraps gets me very close to 0.9 ohm, 24g Nichrome 2,5 ID 7 wraps gets me about 0.7ohm) so i dont have to crank the mod because the ramp up is very fast, the tank does not heat up because the coil cools down fast, so far i can like this wire

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1


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## Rob Fisher (14/9/16)

kimbo said:


> @Rob Fisher i am trying 24g Nichrome in the kayfun now, and for me it acts very much like 28g kanthal (28g kanthal 2mm ID 5 wraps gets me very close to 0.9 ohm, 24g Nichrome 2,5 ID 7 wraps gets me about 0.7ohm) so i dont have to crank the mod because the ramp up is very fast, the tank does not heat up because the coil cools down fast, so far i can like this wire



Mmmmm food for thought!


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## daniel craig (14/9/16)

The whole idea of using claptons is to get a bigger surface area, with a bigger surface are, you can do higher wattages (bigger clouds) and it produces more heat (warmer vape). The coil can soak a lot of juice unlike a standard coil and gives better flavor. It's different for all tanks, in some tanks claptons are crap while in others they are fantastic.

Reactions: Like 1


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## boxerulez (14/9/16)

I must say i picked up some twisted clapton ss and its still sitting there in my vapebox. I twisted 26ga kanthal in the beginning and struggled getting decent flavour. Was about to give up on the limitless when @shaunnadan gave me some tip on dual coiling with 26/24ga and since then I am a single wire fan.

Even in my XL ripped out the claptons prebuilt and coiled some 24ga kanthal in there.

I much prefer that cooler vape and clear flavour.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## Cespian (14/9/16)

daniel craig said:


> The whole idea of using claptons is to get a bigger surface area, with a bigger surface are, you can do higher wattages (bigger clouds) and it produces more heat (warmer vape). The coil can soak a lot of juice unlike a standard coil and gives better flavor. It's different for all tanks, in some tanks claptons are crap while in others they are fantastic.



I hear you, but for some, more heat isnt a good thing. and not necessarily to vaporize more liquid, but Claptons will retain heat, constantly cooking the juice and cotton and keeping tanks/rda's hotter for longer. 

And because of all the ridges and grooves the juice can sit in, spit back increases significantly, whereas a normal coil relies on the saturation of the cotton. 

Also, in my experience, increased flavour with Claptons (or Twisted or any other big builds) has been a myth. Ive been through an array of wire builds that I cannot even pronounce (Stapled Alien Hive Twisted Eric Clapton Metalica Chili Pepper Kanthal), but I get better better flavour from my simple N80 builds. 

There is also no science to prove it producing more clouds. Maybe after the first few drags, the coil retains the heat and in constant state of vaporizing maybe, but its reletive to surface area and amount of juice being vaporized... I.e what will the difference be between a 4 wrap clapton and an 8 wrap 24g coil?

I guess we all need to find what works for us as individuals and hence the 10's of different wire configurations

PS. My opions and experiences above - incase this post pisses on someones battery

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1


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## Feliks Karp (14/9/16)

A short answer to me would be what @Silver already said "use what works for you". The same as many of us like certain vg/pg ratios and some even perceive flavours differently. Personally I enjoy the challenge and actuall act of building a weird coil more so than saying it works "better", it's why I bought one roll of premade clapton when I started and wont ever again. 

Middle of the book answer to me would be, the very fact that some people don't like fancier coils proves that they infact do change the production of vapor, and thats just part of setting up your own "perfect experience". 

In the grander scheme of things, its just human nature, why do keep building fancier, faster cars? Can a R120 000 car get you to where you are going in one piece the same as a R700 000 car? I guess it's the same reason we decided to climb out of the water and reach for the branches. 

I also partly agree that its currently a sales pitch, but businesses are going to want to sell what people want to buy after checking out instagram and youtube.

Reactions: Like 6


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## daniel craig (14/9/16)

Cespian said:


> I hear you, but for some, more heat isnt a good thing. and not necessarily to vaporize more liquid, but Claptons will retain heat, constantly cooking the juice and cotton and keeping tanks/rda's hotter for longer.
> 
> And because of all the ridges and grooves the juice can sit in, spit back increases significantly, whereas a normal coil relies on the saturation of the cotton.
> 
> ...


The only other reason I can think of as to why people use these type of builds is because they look nice and are massive on instagram. They do produce more vapor because they retain a lot of heat. Coils like the Catterpillar Cat Track Coils have wicking properties that you won't be able to get from a normal coil. Fused claptons and aliens also have this wicking property due to the design. On different builds you'll see people use Ribbon wire and according to some builders, ribbon wire when used correctly makes the flavor more crisp. Nowadays I also use standard builds because I hate using high wattages and the tank heats up too much and battery life isn't too good.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Spydro (14/9/16)

Silver said:


> We not doing it wrong @hands
> *If one tries many things and enjoys a certain type of vape then one is winning!
> I think the issue is to try lots of things and discover what works best for you.*



These two lines says it all to me @Silver (very well stated), and everything else is just fluff.

(fluff) My build experience is long and very sorted from the micro 34ga and NR-R-NR days to running thick braided cables that could be used as a vehicle tow strap. Why I have so many different rolls of wire and cards of ribbon from micro to size large and a stash of endless types of wick, most of which are seldom if ever used anymore. My "niche" has always been whatever wire built whatever way with whatever wick in whatever atty gave me the best flavor for each joose I ran at the time. I always seek to build for the joose in the atty it is ran in to my personal taste, not for the build hype. For my vaping style more often than not now days it's the biggest coils that will run the biggest wicks that hold the most joose an atty can handle. There are exceptions, like the builds for RxW and some stingy tanks, but mostly I go big because that is what works for my style the best right now. I could care less about wattage or battery life or joose consumption and will always try to vape a build at what I like the best for the joose it is running. In a way all these TC mods/tanks/coils I bought was just more unnecessary fluff. I was more than satisfied with just the Reos and the builds in specific atty's for them I had been using exclusively for over a year and a half when I joined this forum. But my vaping has always been progressive, hence trying out TC mods/tanks and retiring most of the Reos. So all of the above has been ever changing as my tastes and whims changed from the very start of vaping. No idea what's next or if there will even be another next since I am finally trying to downsize the unchecked rampant vaping buys of the past three and a half years.

Reactions: Like 5


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## SAVaper (14/9/16)

I must say, the stock clapton coils on my Topbox is not bad at all.
I bought some pre-made clapton coils to put in the Twisted Messes when I was on holiday and it was also not bad. I must say, it spits more and the vape is hotter with a slower ramp-up time.
My regular at the moment is 26G KA1 for power and 26G SS316L for TC.


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## RichJB (14/9/16)

I passed on the whole exotic coil thing, along with the low resistance/high wattage vaping thing. When I first started with RTAs, I bought some Geekvape pre-made Claptons. When they were done, I replaced them with simple 26ga kanthal DIY coils. I was expecting a big drop-off in flavour but they tasted exactly the same to me. 

Simple single coils at 30-40W works best for me.The upside is that my batteries last forever. The downside is that my juice does too. In the time that I make two new juice mixes, others on the DIY thread are making 15-20. I shouldn't whine about it but it is quite disheartening. You go to bed thinking you have almost finished a juice so tomorrow you can try that fab new juice you've been steeping for 3 weeks. Then you come through in the morning, look incredulously at the juice bottle - and it seems to have regenerated itself overnight!

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## Jan (14/9/16)

I have long ago made the distinction between the hobby of vaping and what I need on a daily basis to keep me away from smoking. The interesting part is that it is not big clouds that keep me away from smoking. It is my trusty ego one with high nic liquid. The rest is just for fun.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 2 | Can relate 1


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## daniel craig (14/9/16)

There are a few reasons why people love their exotic builds.

One reason is wider surface area with different crevices and different materials will give you a range of nuances. Think of it similar to a speaker and a standard micro coil is a tweeter. Its good for most applications but some people want a little better sound and more overall range of sound/frequencies. If your coil is all the same temp, that liquid is vaporizing everywhere the same way. With intricate coils you're getting different spots vaporizing juice at different temps and it also helps pull juice from its wicking. 

Another reason is for smoothness of vape. You can customize your ramp up and heat while its at its hottest with thinner or thicker outerwrap guages.

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## Igno (14/9/16)

This thread really made me think, I use fused claptons at the moment and going through 3 sets of batteries in a day as well as about 50ml's of juice. If I can use single ss316 wire, my batteries and juice will probably last a lot longer so tomorrow I'm putting a simple single 26g ss316 dual coil in my Limitless Plus and see how it goes for me. Sometimes we have to go back to the basics and hopefully this will save me juice and batteries.

Oh btw, I use ss316 because I use TC almost exclusively lately.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1


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## PsyCLown (14/9/16)

Hmm... So I vape more as a hobby as I have never been a smoker and only vape 0mg juice.

I obviously started with simple kanthal wire coils, tried twisted wire and then finally got to try a clapton build.
These were all in my dripper(s), I much prefer drippers compared to tanks.

I certainly notice a more consistently flavourful vape with the clapton coils, currently I am running a single clapton in my Aeolus lite. Around 0.53 ohms and I run it at around 50 - 55W on the Pico. Ramp up is pretty quick, vape is warm but not too hot and I can still take 4 second+ drags and my RDA does not get that hot either.

I tried to add a 2nd clapton coil, however I ran into ramp up problems and my Pico was not happy. Perhaps if I had more watts to push through it ... but I do not so I can't comment. I also felt as if the flavour was reduced with the dual clapton builds in my Aeolus Lite RDA and as if the vape was cooler (probably due to slow ramp up).

I tried temp control as well with spaced coils as well as non-spaced SS coils and I feel as if there is hardly any flavour when I am in temp control. Even when I bump up the temp to around 260 - 280C. Put the SS coil back into wattage mode and there is more flavour but still not as pronounced as with the clapton coils. I would like to get some SS clapton coils and try them in temp control and see how I find them.

Reactions: Like 1


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## boxerulez (15/9/16)

PsyCLown said:


> Hmm... So I vape more as a hobby as I have never been a smoker and only vape 0mg juice.
> 
> I obviously started with simple kanthal wire coils, tried twisted wire and then finally got to try a clapton build.
> These were all in my dripper(s), I much prefer drippers compared to tanks.
> ...


If you install 2 coils as apposed to 1 and they were all +/- identical would you not need to double the wattage to get to the same flavour/vapour production.

I dont know ohms law by heart but that would make sense as to why you do not get the same flavour? Maybe?


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## PsyCLown (15/9/16)

boxerulez said:


> If you install 2 coils as apposed to 1 and they were all +/- identical would you not need to double the wattage to get to the same flavour/vapour production.
> 
> I dont know ohms law by heart but that would make sense as to why you do not get the same flavour? Maybe?
> 
> ...


Yeah, not sure about wattage being doubled and all however I do suspect a lack of wattage to be the cause. 

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## Igno (15/9/16)

Okay so I did a dual coil build with 26g ss316 wire, replacing my dual fused claptons. I have to be honest, the vape is much cooler, flavour slightly less and also less vapour. I am a flavour chaser but I do like clouds as well so this is a bit dissapointing so far, however, I've only had it in for an hour now and still playing around with watt mode and TC to see if I can get my sweet spot using single wire instead of claptons. I really hope it works out on single wire because claptons are much heavier on juice and batteries.

I will update at the end of the day where I will decide whether I'm going back to the fused claptons or staying with this build.

Reactions: Like 2


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## kimbo (15/9/16)

Igno said:


> Okay so I did a dual coil build with 26g ss316 wire, replacing my dual fused claptons. I have to be honest, the vape is much cooler, flavour slightly less and also less vapour. I am a flavour chaser but I do like clouds as well so this is a bit dissapointing so far, however, I've only had it in for an hour now and still playing around with watt mode and TC to see if I can get my sweet spot using single wire instead of claptons. I really hope it works out on single wire because claptons are much heavier on juice and batteries.
> 
> I will update at the end of the day where I will decide whether I'm going back to the fused claptons or staying with this build.


Hi
If you can space the 26g coils
I spaced my 28g coil and the flavor is better than normal compressed coil (for me)

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Igno (15/9/16)

kimbo said:


> Hi
> If you can space the 26g coils
> I spaced my 28g coil and the flavor is better than normal compressed coil (for me)



I actually thought about that just after I posted and did it quickly, much better now. I see where the whole "flavour more crisp" comes from now. Think I'll leave this build in for the next week and see how my batteries and juice hold up but so far it's good and the flavour much better than before I spaced the coils. The tank also doesnt heat up like with the claptons and for me that's a big bonus.

Reactions: Like 3


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## PeterHarris (15/9/16)

totally agree with OP.
claptons giving more flavor is a myth. if you disagree, then its because everyone told you claptons give the best flavor and you are experiencing a placebo effect.
dont get me wrong, claptons and all that other fancy coils looks freaking awesome!

me, i vape of a ugly coil. 26/24 G wire. 5 to 6 wraps. 2.5 to 3mm ID. 20w.
my clouds are decent, flavor is great and my juice and batteries last way longer than any other clapton setup.

they say you eat with your eyes. so maybe because an ugly coil looks ugly, your brain is telling your tastebuds that its not a nice vape. and with a nice looking claptop, your brain tells you, wow thats a beautiful coil, so your taste buds comply and say, wow what awesome flavor.

i had people taking a pull of my vape and they were like wow thats a good vape, and then i show them the coil, and they cant believe. why, because their brain did not have the chance to tell them that is is an ugly coil so the vape will be kak.

do yourself a favor. go buy some Smash (mash potato packets) make one as normal, and one with green food coloring (remember that food coloring has no taste additives.
give them to some one blind folded they will tell you it tastes the same.
now give it to them so they can see, and they will tell you the green ones tastes bad..

trust me, its a good experiment.

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