# PrimeNic, you did it again



## aktorsyl (3/6/17)

Sigh. Second time in a row. This is just decanted from a new bottle:










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## Scissorhands (3/6/17)

100mg? I honestly dont see a issue 

I dont know what it smells and tastes like though, iv had 100mg that almost resembles honey with no odour or off taste and almost clear (like yours) that smells like socks and tastes like pepper


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## aktorsyl (3/6/17)

If it was 100,sure. But that is 36.
Smells like a fishmonger's storeroom. 

Usually my 100 is darkish, but a bit lighter than that. My 36s are almost always clear, just sliiightly off-colour.


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## Scissorhands (3/6/17)

aktorsyl said:


> If it was 100,sure. But that is 36.
> Smells like a fishmonger's storeroom.
> 
> Usually my 100 is darkish, but a bit lighter than that. My 36s are almost always clear, just sliiightly off-colour.



Thats a bummer man , how old is it? Kept in a freezer?


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## aktorsyl (3/6/17)

Received maybe 3 days ago I think. Had the same problem with the batch before, too. Problem is we're not spoiled for choice when it comes to nic manufacturers in SA. 

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## Gizmo (3/6/17)

Its tough to judge based on colour. 100MG can be almost clear but as it matures it goes slightly darker. If the nicotine smells then there is something wrong. Nicotine should have basically no smell.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## daniel craig (3/6/17)

aktorsyl said:


> Received maybe 3 days ago I think. Had the same problem with the batch before, too. Problem is we're not spoiled for choice when it comes to nic manufacturers in SA.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


There's Steam Masters Nic by Sir Vape, TFM carries their own Nic, Skyblue also sells imported Nic.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Llew (6/6/17)

daniel craig said:


> There's Steam Masters Nic by Sir Vape, TFM carries their own Nic, Skyblue also sells imported Nic.


How would rate the nic from these suppliers? 

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## aktorsyl (6/6/17)

Gizmo said:


> Its tough to judge based on colour. 100MG can be almost clear but as it matures it goes slightly darker. If the nicotine smells then there is something wrong. Nicotine should have basically no smell.


Sorry, meant to reply earlier. Well, it depends what you define as smell. If the unpleasant smell is wafting from the bottle, then it's a write-off. But if you have to squeeze the bottle to get the odour and then only detect it as _slightly _fishy, it's pretty much how it's supposed to smell. This one, however, smelled like a snoek left on a Datsun's bonnet in February.

PS: It has to be said that this thread was a rant aimed at PrimeNic and NOT at the vendor, who has been extremely helpful with this (as always).

Reactions: Like 1


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## daniel craig (6/6/17)

Llew said:


> How would rate the nic from these suppliers?
> 
> Sent from my E5633 using Tapatalk


I can vouch for all of these guys. The quality is excellent and is even used in some commercial juice lines. I know Sir Vape uses their own Steam Masters Nic for their juices so quality is definitely excellent. Skyblue does the same. TFM also supplies to some local guys and the reviews are great. If you ever have a problem with a purchase from these guys, they'll sort it out without hesitation.


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## Llew (6/6/17)

daniel craig said:


> I can vouch for all of these guys. The quality is excellent and is even used in some commercial juice lines. I know Sir Vape uses their own Steam Masters Nic for their juices so quality is definitely excellent. Skyblue does the same. TFM also supplies to some local guys and the reviews are great. If you ever have a problem with a purchase from these guys, they'll sort it out without hesitation.


Cool, thanks, will give them a try 

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## Jebula999 (6/6/17)

Gizmo said:


> Its tough to judge based on colour. 100MG can be almost clear but as it matures it goes slightly darker. If the nicotine smells then there is something wrong. Nicotine should have basically no smell.


Maybe that explains why my DIY never tastes/feels as it should. Always feels harsh and juice goes dark very quickly.

Almost all of my Nic that i have purchased has had a very strong smell to it, even so that i smell it by just opening the bottle.


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## Feliks Karp (6/6/17)

The last prime nic I got I actually suspect was higher concentrate than it stated, gave me such bad palpitations.

Reactions: Can relate 1


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## aktorsyl (6/6/17)

Feliks Karp said:


> The last prime nic I got I actually suspect was higher concentrate than it stated, gave me such bad palpitations.


That happened to me too, once. Was supposed to be 36, was probably closer to 45-50.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Feliks Karp (6/6/17)

aktorsyl said:


> That happened to me too, once. Was supposed to be 36, was probably closer to 45-50.



Yup, was absolutely horrendous experience. I thought maybe I hadn't mixed it up enough, so the next time I shook the all living shit out of the bottle, same thing, stuck with my heart trying to rip out of my chest for the next couple of hours.

Reactions: Funny 1 | Can relate 1


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## stevie g (6/6/17)

Been through many litres of prime nic and never had a problem. 

You don't know how long the vendor had that bottle on their shelf and what type of temperature it was stored at.


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## RichJB (6/6/17)

I've heard reports of wildly varying strengths as well.

Reactions: Like 1


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## BeardedVaper93 (6/6/17)

I had a similar issue with Prime Nic that ruined almost a litre of juice. i prefer Clyrolinx, so much better and consistent.


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## aktorsyl (6/6/17)

stevie g said:


> Been through many litres of prime nic and never had a problem.
> 
> You don't know how long the vendor had that bottle on their shelf and what type of temperature it was stored at.


The vendor can have the bottle on the shelf for 21 years in direct sunlight and while it would ruin the nic completely, it still wouldn't make the nicotine _increase _in strength.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## stevie g (6/6/17)

On this topic does anyone know where to get a nicotine titration kit?.

Alternatively does anyone know where to get...
.12n sulphuric acid
Bromothymol blue


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## YeOldeOke (6/6/17)

stevie g said:


> On this topic does anyone know where to get a nicotine titration kit?.
> 
> Alternatively does anyone know where to get...
> .12n sulphuric acid
> Bromothymol blue



Try http://experilab.co.za/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=808

They seem to have only 98% Sulphuric acid but they may help with sourcing it.
http://experilab.co.za/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=72_136_152&products_id=771

Or try swimming pool supplies or pet shop (aquarium)

Or dilute yourself
https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/threads/diluting-37-sulfuric-acid-to-0-12-normality.620608/

Reactions: Thanks 1


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## YeOldeOke (6/6/17)

We use a lot of Prime Nic. Direct from supplier. Never had anything but the best nic. I think Prime Nic should be given a chance to respond to this. The fault may be with them or it may not, as this nic appears to come from a vendor.

In fact, nic being the most expensive element in juice, we could save a lot of money importing our own, but we don't because the quality is hit and miss.


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## aktorsyl (6/6/17)

YeOldeOke said:


> We use a lot of Prime Nic. Direct from supplier. Never had anything but the best nic. I think Prime Nic should be given a chance to respond to this. The fault may be with them or it may not, as this nic appears to come from a vendor.
> 
> In fact, nic being the most expensive element in juice, we could save a lot of money importing our own, but we don't because the quality is hit and miss.


Multiple vendors, not just one. To be honest, I find it hard to see how more than one vendor can strengthen and/or degrade nicotine that comes in a sealed bottle, but I digress.
I hear ya on the importing though. Wish we could get NudeNicotine imported in bulk, but as you say - it's hit and miss sometimes.

Reactions: Like 1


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## gavin (13/6/17)

Nicotine degrades in VG, always buy in PG.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## craigb (13/6/17)

gavin said:


> Nicotine degrades in VG, always buy in PG.


VG based nicotine kept in a cool dark place will outlast PG based nic stored in the sun. 

Nicotine will degrade regardless of the carrier due to a number of variables rendering your rather terse comment moot in consumer sized quantities. 

People should buy their nic in the carrier that suits their needs (and shaking endurance) best.


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## aktorsyl (13/6/17)

craigb said:


> VG based nicotine kept in a cool dark place will outlast PG based nic stored in the sun.
> 
> Nicotine will degrade regardless of the carrier due to a number of variables rendering your rather terse comment moot in consumer sized quantities.
> 
> People should buy their nic in the carrier that suits their needs (and shaking endurance) best.


Well I calculated it as follows.. If I want a 70vg juice, I need to keep my flavours below 20% in order to use 100% PG nic. If I want to use 50/50 nic, I need to keep the flavours below 25%.

Now, in the olden days.. 20% wasn't THAT much. These days, it's a ton. I usually never go above 17-18%, so I can actually use 100% PG nic. Maybe I should order that on my next refill.

Reactions: Like 1


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## craigb (13/6/17)

aktorsyl said:


> Well I calculated it as follows.. If I want a 70vg juice, I need to keep my flavours below 20% in order to use 100% PG nic. If I want to use 50/50 nic, I need to keep the flavours below 25%.
> 
> Now, in the olden days.. 20% wasn't THAT much. These days, it's a ton. I usually never go above 17-18%, so I can actually use 100% PG nic. Maybe I should order that on my next refill.



Look, PG based nicotine is a lot easier to work with. No doubt about that.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## aktorsyl (13/6/17)

craigb said:


> Look, PG based nicotine is a lot easier to work with. No doubt about that.


Yup, for sure. Easier to get on your fingers though, but at 36mg it has less risk.
EDIT: Forgot to say, the above calcs took into account 36mg nic base.


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## gavin (13/6/17)

craigb said:


> VG based nicotine kept in a cool dark place will outlast PG based nic stored in the sun.
> 
> Nicotine will degrade regardless of the carrier due to a number of variables rendering your rather terse comment moot in consumer sized quantities.
> 
> People should buy their nic in the carrier that suits their needs (and shaking endurance) best.


Nicotine will degrade faster in vg


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## craigb (13/6/17)

gavin said:


> Nicotine will degrade faster in vg


Repeating it doesn't make it relevant. For our use case in consumer batches it makes no difference.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Cespian (13/6/17)

craigb said:


> Repeating it doesn't make it relevant. For our use case in consumer batches it makes no difference.



Nicotine degrades faster in VG

Reactions: Winner 1 | Funny 4


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## ShamZ (13/6/17)

Nicotine will degrade faster in VG

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Anneries (13/6/17)

@craigb I have heard somewhere that: Nicotine will degrade faster in VG

Reactions: Funny 4


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## Caveman (13/6/17)

I got hellish throathit from a bottle of prime nic once. I only buy nic from Clyrolinx now, last 8 months or so, not a single issue. 

Also, Nic degrades faster in VG

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 3


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## Andre (13/6/17)

I only use 100mg Nic in PG, because it is easier to work with PG and PG is a known preservative, which keeps the nic in top shape for longer than VG.

Reactions: Like 3


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## craigb (13/6/17)



Reactions: Funny 8


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## gavin (13/6/17)

craigb said:


> Repeating it doesn't make it relevant. For our use case in consumer batches it makes no difference.


It's relevant, that nicotine in the OP's picture is in VG, it degraded.


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## craigb (13/6/17)

gavin said:


> It's relevant, that nicotine in the OP's picture is in VG, it degraded.





gavin said:


> It's relevant, that nicotine in the OP's picture is in VG, it degraded.



Heat, light and oxygen are the 3 main contributors to nicotine degradation. 


While the carrier may contribute, I would rather attribute this issue to mishandling along the production line. 

I'm a fan of VG nic, so if you could provide something to support your assertion it would be of interest to me.


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## RichJB (13/6/17)

I think those shelf-life estimates are very conservative. Nic I'm not sure but 12 months for VG and PG sounds too short. I've heard up to 5 years if it's kept relatively cool and out of sunlight. A year for flavours is also disturbing. I have flavours I bought more than a year ago and of which I've only used 2ml or less, yet they seem to still be fine.


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## craigb (13/6/17)

RichJB said:


> I think those shelf-life estimates are very conservative. Nic I'm not sure but 12 months for VG and PG sounds too short. I've heard up to 5 years if it's kept relatively cool and out of sunlight. A year for flavours is also disturbing. I have flavours I bought more than a year ago and of which I've only used 2ml or less, yet they seem to still be fine.


Well the reddit author claims at the time to have a bottle of nic (unknown base) that is over 4 years old.


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## gavin (13/6/17)

craigb said:


> Heat, light and oxygen are the 3 main contributors to nicotine degradation.
> 
> 
> While the carrier may contribute, I would rather attribute this issue to mishandling along the production line.
> ...



I'm mostly going on experience, buying nicotine for years, there was talk about it on the international forum but that was years ago.There is a noticeable difference even if you keep the liquid in an opaque container in a cool dark place it seems to degrade quickly in VG and it doesn't seem to degrade at all in pg at 3.6 percent and 10 percent.


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## SmokeyJoe (13/6/17)

Ive only bought nic in vg once and didnt like the taste. Been using nic on pg for years now and never had issues RE taste. I buy in bulk, keeping it in a dark cool place and never had issues


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## craigb (13/6/17)

gavin said:


> I'm mostly going on experience, buying nicotine for years, there was talk about it on the international forum but that was years ago.There is a noticeable difference even if you keep the liquid in an opaque container in a cool dark place it seems to degrade quickly in VG and it doesn't seem to degrade at all in pg at 3.6 percent and 10 percent.


Thanks, something to keep in mind


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## Nightwalker (14/6/17)

Tfm?


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## daniel craig (14/6/17)

Nightwalker said:


> Tfm?


The flavour mill

Reactions: Like 1


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## Scott (14/6/17)

daniel craig said:


> I can vouch for all of these guys. The quality is excellent and is even used in some commercial juice lines. I know Sir Vape uses their own Steam Masters Nic for their juices so quality is definitely excellent. Skyblue does the same. TFM also supplies to some local guys and the reviews are great. If you ever have a problem with a purchase from these guys, they'll sort it out without hesitation.


Good to hear that customer service is still a priority despite having a captive market.


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## stevie g (14/6/17)

Scott said:


> Good to hear that customer service is still a priority despite having a captive market.


captive market?.


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## aktorsyl (14/6/17)

stevie g said:


> captive market?.


Captive market means there is a situation where you have demand but limited supply (from limited suppliers). Eager clients will have to buy from one of the very few available suppliers, or stay without the item.

I don't actually agree that it describes the situation we have in SA, though. There are many suppliers, not a select few that you are limited to. There are many vape shops (B&M), and quite a few online vape stores. One could argue that nicotine base is caught in a captive market, and that is partly true - there isn't THAT much choice when it comes to nicotine base in SA (but you do have some).


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## stevie g (14/6/17)

aktorsyl said:


> Captive market means there is a situation where you have demand but limited supply (from limited suppliers). Eager clients will have to buy from one of the very few available suppliers, or stay without the item.
> 
> I don't actually agree that it describes the situation we have in SA, though. There are many suppliers, not a select few that you are limited to. There are many vape shops (B&M), and quite a few online vape stores. One could argue that nicotine base is caught in a captive market, and that is partly true - there isn't THAT much choice when it comes to nicotine base in SA (but you do have some).


exactly what this person said!.


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## Scott (14/6/17)

aktorsyl said:


> Captive market means there is a situation where you have demand but limited supply (from limited suppliers). Eager clients will have to buy from one of the very few available suppliers, or stay without the item.
> 
> I don't actually agree that it describes the situation we have in SA, though. There are many suppliers, not a select few that you are limited to. There are many vape shops (B&M), and quite a few online vape stores. One could argue that nicotine base is caught in a captive market, and that is partly true - there isn't THAT much choice when it comes to nicotine base in SA (but you do have some).


That's exactly what I was referring to. The market brands for nicotine is extremely limited in SA. For those who can afford to import thumbs up to you.

Reactions: Like 1


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## aktorsyl (14/6/17)

Scott said:


> That's exactly what I was referring to. The market brands for nicotine is extremely limited in SA. For those who can afford to import thumbs up to you.


Oh don't get me wrong, I agree with you on the nicotine front for the most part. I'd love to have NudeNicotine supplied in SA, for instance.


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## aktorsyl (20/6/17)

Have a bottle of PG nic on order, probably delivered tomorrow or Thursday. I'm getting fed up with VG nic  I've discovered that I can actually mix all my current recipes (and even my high-nic tobacco MTL juices) with 100% PG nic.

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 1


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## playa4life (27/6/17)

I suspect I got a bottle of Prime Nic which isnt as advertised on the bottle. I shook that bottle up so much before using it in my initial mix. It says 36mg on the but when used in a mix at the appropriate ratios, it was unvapable - even after shaking up the mix daily and letting it breath every few days for 20mins at at time. It was supposed to be a 3mg mix. The juice eventually turned gold in colour. Looks like Golden Syrup. I should throw it it out already.
I mixed up another batch of the same nic but halved the nic from 3 to 1.5 and, while still harsh, a lot more vapable.
In my next attempt, I'm going to mix the same recipe but will adjust nic to (75% of 1.5mg) - 1.125mg.
I'm also goingto get some Clyronix nic at 36mg and compare the two side by side just for shits and giggles.
Definitely feels like I got a bottle of 50mg nic as opposed to 36mg. But this isnt putting me off one bit. This is just adding experience to my (new) DIY Journey!
Keep on DIY'ing peeps!


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## aktorsyl (27/6/17)

playa4life said:


> I suspect I got a bottle of Prime Nic which isnt as advertised on the bottle. I shook that bottle up so much before using it in my initial mix. It says 36mg on the but when used in a mix at the appropriate ratios, it was unvapable - even after shaking up the mix daily and letting it breath every few days for 20mins at at time. It was supposed to be a 3mg mix. The juice eventually turned gold in colour. Looks like Golden Syrup. I should throw it it out already.
> I mixed up another batch of the same nic but halved the nic from 3 to 1.5 and, while still harsh, a lot more vapable.
> In my next attempt, I'm going to mix the same recipe but will adjust nic to (75% of 1.5mg) - 1.125mg.
> I'm also goingto get some Clyronix nic at 36mg and compare the two side by side just for shits and giggles.
> ...


I had the same before.. and I've had a bottle differ in strength during the same bottle as well. Very strange, but the top half of the bottle would be close to 30mg while the bottom half would be closer to 50mg. Or whatever the quantities but yknow, a big difference. And yes, I've shaken it for minutes and minutes on end, every time. What I actually started suspecting is that PrimeNic isn't mixing the nic into the VG correctly the first time round. It needs more than just a shake to blend in with VG when first mixed, and my theory is that they're not stirring it properly before decanting into the bottles that are sold.

I'm now using PG Nic (still PrimeNic) and will see how it goes through the lifecycle of the bottle.. but if my theory is correct, it should be much better as nic mixes easier into PG.


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## playa4life (28/6/17)

aktorsyl said:


> I had the same before.. and I've had a bottle differ in strength during the same bottle as well. Very strange, but the top half of the bottle would be close to 30mg while the bottom half would be closer to 50mg. Or whatever the quantities but yknow, a big difference. And yes, I've shaken it for minutes and minutes on end, every time. What I actually started suspecting is that PrimeNic isn't mixing the nic into the VG correctly the first time round. It needs more than just a shake to blend in with VG when first mixed, and my theory is that they're not stirring it properly before decanting into the bottles that are sold.
> 
> I'm now using PG Nic (still PrimeNic) and will see how it goes through the lifecycle of the bottle.. but if my theory is correct, it should be much better as nic mixes easier into PG.


Thanx @aktorsyl .
I think my best bet, to be absolutely certain, would be to get some same strength Clyronix and mix identical batches using each of the 2 x Nic that I'll have.


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## RichJB (28/6/17)

aktorsyl said:


> I've discovered that I can actually mix all my current recipes (and even my high-nic tobacco MTL juices) with 100% PG nic.



It's becoming less and less of an issue as recipe development refines. If you use 36mg and vape at 3mg, the nic will take up 8.3% of the mix. So you would need total flavouring in excess of 21.7% to hit the PG ceiling on a standard 70/30 mix. With hardware becoming more efficient at delivering flavour, as well as high-potency brands like Inw and Flv gaining traction, it's becoming rare for recipes to even approach 20% total flavouring. I have loads and loads of recipes at under 10%. I mix 60/40 so I'm not even close to the PG ceiling on anything.

Reactions: Agree 1


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