# What do you think is a fair retail price for $21/22 juice?



## capetocuba

Ok guys, so we are awash with new premium juice mainly out of the USA. Prices seem to vary considerably from R260.00 right up to R350.00 per 30ml bottle. The most expensive is almost 35% more than the cheapest. I can vape easily 15ml on a good day. Multiply that difference i.e. 30 days x R45.00 (I get this figure by dividing the R90.00 by 2) = R1350.00 per month.


Would like to hear your thoughts.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Reinhardt

So this R1350 is the difference per month between the cheapest and the most expensive?


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## capetocuba

Reinhardt said:


> So this R1350 is the difference per month between the cheapest and the most expensive?


Yes


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## Reinhardt

capetocuba said:


> Yes


That is quite scary as that is +- my complete vape budget

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Reinhardt

What price are you planning to sell your juice for?


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## capetocuba

Reinhardt said:


> What price are you planning to sell your juice for?


I am not bringing in any juice. I am always on the lookout for new flavours here locally and see quite a price difference for juice that sells for the same price in USA. Actually there's even a top premium (Nicoticket) 30ml juice retailing here for R220.00.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Reinhardt

capetocuba said:


> I am not bringing in any juice. I am always on the lookout for new flavours here locally and see quite a price difference for juice that sells for the same price in USA. Actually there's even a top premium (Nicoticket) 30ml juice retailing here for R220.00.


Aaaa I see. Misunderstood then. But if you are referring to some guys charging way to much I agree


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## VandaL

I would say a fair retail price for imported premium juices is around the R250-R270 mark which quite a few smaller retailers in SA manage to do np. Being that majority of the premium juices are retailing for $18-$24 overseas. I've seen some local retailers selling $22-00 juice for R350-00 which is madness.

My approach to buying imported flavors locally is, will it cost me more to import them myself with shipping and customs included.

I import TONS of grants vanilla custard 100ml bottles for myself, which works out to around R750 a bottle with DHL shipping and customs

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 7


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## MurderDoll

Some of the juices are actually well within their price range.

Take ANML for example. Its a hand crafted High Premium Juice.

Before it was brought in by Cloud Flavour. I did some research to try and bring it in myself. 
The prices worked out that I would be saving roughly R30 on a bottle. 
With all the schlep of order, shipping, customs, etc. It doesn't really seem worth it.

So even with them ordering at wholesale. They actually not making much on this line.
Take into account all the costs carried. Its actually not that bad a price for the liquid.

Its still freaking expensive. I agree. But so is a Ferrari....

Other ones I wouldn't know as I didn't have any interest in those. I was wanting Looper and Carnage. 

Just my 2c.

Reactions: Agree 2


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## TylerD

I think it is really expensive for a bottle of juice.
For one bottle it will be $22, but if you buy 3 at once it moves down to $18.
Now, if you have wholesale discount. How much does one pay for 50 bottles plus.

Reactions: Agree 5 | Informative 2


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## MurderDoll

Just as an example.

I went ahead quickly and added 2 bottles of Looper to my cart and used the cheapest shipping method to SA.

So this means its anything between 2 weeks and a month to wait for it to arrive.







Converted to Rands (www.xe.com/ucc), that works out to:
R692.32

That means that per bottle I am paying R346.16

So I get to save R3.84

Of which I still haven't received the liquids and I will be slapped with customs when it arrives.
I highly doubt that i will pay less than R7.68 tax.

Easier just to pay the R10 more and buy it locally without all the hassles.


My advice is this:
Do your research. If you can import it for yourself at a cheaper price. By all means. go ahead.
I would do the same.

If it works out to be the same price, then just pick it up locally and save yourself the hassles.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 3 | Informative 1


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## Reinhardt

TylerD said:


> I think it is really expensive for a bottle of juice.
> For one bottle it will be $22, but if you buy 3 at once it moves down to $18.
> Now, if you have wholesale discount. How much does one pay for 50 bottles plus.
> View attachment 21631


This is madness. If you save so much on a 3 pac then yes. What are the retailers paying bringing them in bulk? I think we are getting murdered a bit.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Can relate 1 | Disagree 1


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## MurderDoll

Reinhardt said:


> This is madness. If you save so much on a 3 pac then yes. What are the retailers paying bringing them in bulk? I think we are getting murdered a bit.




I think you are completely missing the point.

Look at it as if you're in the USA.

Even there the price point matches what we get them at in SA.
And they don't have customs fee's and all that jazz to pay. They are sending it out locally to their local market at the same price we paying for it all the way here in little old SA.

And even if you order 50 bottles. that doesn't mean you are paying $5 per bottle.
At best you'd probably get it at around $15 to $16.
So yes, there is a little bit of a saving. But then you forgetting the whole point again. What about shipping and customs?

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 2


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## Paulie

Hey all,

I was waiting for this troll thread lol 

Cool so basically i thought i would explain how currently we have setup our business model and maby also let you know that we are looking into how we can get better pricing/improve our model for all juices in the future! We at Cloud Flavour import the juice paying wholesale pricing then we include a small fee (admin costs \import costs customs etc) which is added to the price which then gets sold to Vape King Who then has to sell the juice at a certain margin to maintain staff and other expenses so that they can run there business successfully. Its easy/cheaper for some people who have the time to do group buys and are also willing to go through SAPO if they allow it. The idea with this current model is to all us to import juice without offering people Pre order options so that basically they will be able to get some of the best juice out there if they willing to purchase it at a higher margin and also as quickly as possible. I am well aware that this model we using is new and we are working very hard our side to improve it and hopefully things will get better and other factors such as high taxes on e-liquid wont be introduced in the future! I can assure you that we will do all in our power to try improve this and welcome anyone whom may have some ideas to PM me as most of you all know that we are here to help and improve the community and in most cases try and keep it as positive and fun as possible!

Reactions: Like 7 | Agree 2 | Winner 2


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## Gizmo

Please take into account in SA e-liquid gets taxed 30%

Reactions: Informative 1


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## capetocuba

Hi @Paulie I started this thread to get everyone's views and in no way had troll in my mind. That being said your new business model as you have stated is simply put 2 margins, which will always lead to a higher price point? Actually if you include the VK agents there are now 3 people eating off the cookie?

I really hope your prices do come down as I can't justify (in my head) R350.00

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Paulie

capetocuba said:


> Hi @Paulie I started this thread to get everyone's views and in no way had troll in my mind. That being said your new business model as you have stated is simply put 2 margins, which will always lead to a higher price point?
> 
> I really hope your prices do come down as I can't justify (in my head) R350.00




You are quite correct that there are 2 margins but if you look at @Zodd post on buying it direct our margins are very low and i can assure you that we are making very little on the juices. However i am working on getting them better and will continue to but its not easy man.

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## Gizmo

Unfortunately, in international e-liquid margins are not very good. Ask any retailer. Customs as of this year has nailed importing of e-liquid hard and also most american international manufacturers refuse to label them as essential oils etc. Americans have business ethics that they do not cross, so we get hit that.

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Smokyg

Please explain :
Vendor X sells 30ml of imported liquid @ R300
Vendor Y sells the exact same brand and flavour for R289
and Vendor Z sells yet the same juice for R260 and still makes a profit for himself?

It reminds me of a bigger online store war on MyBroadband...

for 1TB 2.5" drive Takealot charges R997 and free shipping, DionWired charges R1299 and R100 shipping for the exact same product.

Why you may ask? Simply because they can? No Dion Wired needs to pay rent for all their over styled porcelain tiled shops, Takealot doesnt.

Yet again someone is going to grill me for comparing Vape shops to retail chains, but the concept stays the same... Big vendors with walk in shops have rent and salaries to pay, so they will charge more than Piet Pompies importing juice and selling them from his garage... Ill buy from Piet rather as he is cheaper, and no other reason.

Reactions: Agree 4 | Disagree 2


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## Smokyg

Eish, looks like my return to the forum have attracted me to all the heated threads...

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Andre

Have read through the thread and see no heated arguments or anyone getting personal, which is great. Only valid points all around. And if someone disagrees with your point(s), do not feel offended. What a boring world it would be if we all agreed on everything.

My point of view: If the juice is one of my five star ADVs I am prepared to pay a margin to a local vendor for his/her trouble and risk. If it becomes too expensive for my pocket I will import it myself for as long as it is possible and cheaper. If another vendor offers the same juice at a lower price I shall buy it from that vendor unless I have built up a long term relationship with the first vendor and his/her more expensive price is not preposterous.
And I never buy an expensive juice unless I have researched it well and am fairly certain it will suit my taste profile. Of course, one does slip up every now and then.

Reactions: Like 7 | Winner 1


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## rogue zombie

I got pretty irate once, when my favourite juice kept jumping up R20 or so everytime I wanted to refil (not linked to any exchange rate fluctuation).

Anyway, I argued my points when a similar thread popped up.

I got the distinct feeling members who strongly support the particular retailer didn't like anyone challenging their beloved retailer. And I got the "you don't have to buy it..." Etc.

... so I haven't touched the juice again, and I'm still well and kicking. So is the retailer.

Nowadays it's simple for me.
It's not a question of "What price you think is fair retail price for $21 juice."

It's more of a case of what I am WILLING to pay.

Reactions: Like 5 | Agree 5


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## Reinhardt

r0gue z0mbie said:


> I got pretty irate once, when my favourite juice kept jumping up R20 or so everytime I wanted to refil (not linked to any exchange rate fluctuation).
> 
> Anyway, I argued my points when a similar thread popped up.
> 
> I got the distinct feeling members who strongly support the particular retailer didn't like anyone challenging their beloved retailer. And I got the "you don't have to buy it..." Etc.
> 
> ... so I haven't touched the juice again, and I'm still well and kicking. So is the retailer.
> 
> Nowadays it's simple for me.
> It's not a question of "What price you think is fair retail price for $21 juice."
> 
> It's more of a case of what I am WILLING to pay.




I agree with you 100% almost starts feeling like an easy money story(I'm not saying that is what is happening). Obviously vendors won't do it free of charge and that is 100% understandable. The big question in mind is how can one vendor sell juice x for R260 and another vendor sells juice x for R289? I know its only R29 difference but if you buy 10x bottles you save R290(another bottle and small change)
It just feels like someone is being screwed somewhere. Maybe the re-sellers are buying from a more expensive place? Who knows?

Reactions: Like 1


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## rogue zombie

Reinhardt said:


> I agree with you 100% almost starts feeling like an easy money story(I'm not saying that is what is happening). Obviously vendors won't do it free of charge and that is 100% understandable. The big question in mind is how can one vendor sell juice x for R260 and another vendor sells juice x for R289? I know its only R29 difference but if you buy 10x bottles you save R290(another bottle and small change)
> It just feels like someone is being screwed somewhere. Maybe the re-sellers are buying from a more expensive place? Who knows?



No look I understand that there could be a bunch of variables effecting pricing etc.

But in all honesty, that does not make me more understanding. I just move on.


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## Alex

Reinhardt said:


> I agree with you 100% almost starts feeling like an easy money story(I'm not saying that is what is happening). Obviously vendors won't do it free of charge and that is 100% understandable. The big question in mind is how can one vendor sell juice x for R260 and another vendor sells juice x for R289? I know its only R29 difference but if you buy 10x bottles you save R290(another bottle and small change)
> It just feels like someone is being screwed somewhere. Maybe the re-sellers are buying from a more expensive place? Who knows?



Swings and Roundabouts. Often things are cheaper on specific items to attract people, who end up buying other things.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 3


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## rogue zombie

Alex said:


> Swings and Roundabouts. Often things are cheaper on specific items to attract people, who end up buying other things.



Oooh f@#$ Checkers, PnP etc drive me nuts with this. Going in to find an advertised TV at X.... "no sorry those are finished but we have these."

Ya ya


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## Smokyg

r0gue z0mbie said:


> The only
> 
> 
> Oooh f@#$ Checkers, PnP etc drive me nuts with this. Going in to find an advertised TV at X.... "no sorry those are finished but we have these."
> 
> Ya ya


Hahaha, exactly!! They will have a sale on chocolates and heaters in January just to get you into their shop, and once you are there you think, Meh, lets just do our monthly shopping there as you are there already! Without realising that all their prices are pushed up by a unnoticeable R1... Boom.. They got you with their sleezy advertising ..

Reactions: Like 1


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## Derick

Reinhardt said:


> I agree with you 100% almost starts feeling like an easy money story(I'm not saying that is what is happening). Obviously vendors won't do it free of charge and that is 100% understandable. The big question in mind is how can one vendor sell juice x for R260 and another vendor sells juice x for R289? I know its only R29 difference but if you buy 10x bottles you save R290(another bottle and small change)
> It just feels like someone is being screwed somewhere. Maybe the re-sellers are buying from a more expensive place? Who knows?


Not sure what you are struggling to understand - it is a free market system in SA and people can charge what they want. Which is why sometimes Pick n Pay chickens are cheaper than Spar Chickens even for the same brand (or vice versa)

There could be many reasons why one store/shop/chain/website sells the exact item at a different price to another store - maybe they have too many and they mark them down, maybe they are selling well, so they mark them up, maybe they are trying to get an in into to market by starting cheap, or maybe they just felt like it

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 2 | Winner 2


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## Kaizer

The theory for the Invisible Hand states that if each consumer is allowed to choose freely what to buy and each producer is allowed to choose freely what to sell and how to produce it, the market will settle on a product distribution and prices that are beneficial to all the individual members of a community, and hence to the community as a whole.

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## Derick

Kaizer said:


> The theory for the Invisible Hand states that if each consumer is allowed to choose freely what to buy and each producer is allowed to choose freely what to sell and how to produce it, the market will settle on a product distribution and prices that are beneficial to all the individual members of a community, and hence to the community as a whole.


Except if they are like me and just go to the closest store

Reactions: Agree 3


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## Rob Fisher

Andre said:


> Have read through the thread and see no heated arguments or anyone getting personal, which is great. Only valid points all around.



There were a couple of messages that were out of line and got nuked. It got personal which isn't cool.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 1


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## Rob Fisher

r0gue z0mbie said:


> It's more of a case of what I am WILLING to pay.



100% and that's it in a nutshell!

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 3


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## Alex

Real men vape unflavoured 9mg 

Well real men that are also cheap bastards like me.

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 8


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## Tom

I am paying anything between 18 € (Snake Oil) and 28€ (Ripe Vapes) for 30ml here....for premium imported juices. I can also get local non premium for much less. Why do I spend so much more? Because I like those juices in my rotation. I am willing to spend that kind of money.

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 1


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## Silver

Most interesting thread

Only caught up with it now

I am in the camp that believes that retailers can charge what they like. But i also believe that we as consumers are free to buy what we like. 

So if all the retailers sold premium juices at R500 a bottle, they would probably sell very few. At R400 they would sell a bit more. At R300, even more. At some price point they would make the maximum profit. And they are free to pick their point. 

As long as more retailers pop up and more juices are available, it will be good for consumers. More variety and lower prices. 

A sincere thanks to all the retailers for bringing in such fantastic lines of juice and growing the menu for us. Please continue...

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 4 | Winner 1


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## Dassie

Rob Fisher said:


> There were a couple of messages that were out of line and got nuked. It got personal which isn't cool.


@Rob Fisher , I missed the nastiness. Just wondering if we could consider having a place where we could view this misbehaviour (perhaps in a closed thread), so we could shame these @ssholes and get rid of the trolls! You know how much this forum means to me (and I know for many others). Just don't think they should be let off easily.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## Rob Fisher

Dassie said:


> @Rob Fisher , I missed the nastiness. Just wondering if we could consider having a place where we could view this misbehaviour (perhaps in a closed thread), so we could shame these @ssholes and get rid of the trolls! You know how much this forum means to me (and I know for many others). Just don't think they should be let off easily.



Nope... that just adds fuel to the fire... most times it normal members who either have had a bad day or their buttons are pressed with something and they lash out... these things are better just nuked and forgotten... it keeps the forums a friendly place because we all have off days and post things we shouldn't or don't mean.

In most instances it's not Trolls but rather someone having a really bad day.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 7 | Winner 2


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## rogue zombie

Dassie said:


> @Rob Fisher , I missed the nastiness. Just wondering if we could consider having a place where we could view this misbehaviour (perhaps in a closed thread), so we could shame these @ssholes and get rid of the trolls! You know how much this forum means to me (and I know for many others). Just don't think they should be let off easily.



I only briefly saw a post or two when it happened, so maybe I am speaking out of turn. 

From what I saw, I don't think it was a case of trolling - more people "reacting" to what was getting said.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 6


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## Dassie

Rob Fisher said:


> Nope... that just adds fuel to the fire... most times it normal members who either have had a bad day or their buttons are pressed with something and they lash out... these things are better just nuked and forgotten... it keeps the forums a friendly place because we all have off days and post things we shouldn't or don't mean.
> 
> In most instances it's not Trolls but rather someone having a really bad day.


Thanks Rob. All good if we can keep this beautiful and rare thing going strong.

Reactions: Winner 1


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## Rob Fisher

r0gue z0mbie said:


> From what I saw, I don't think it was a case of trolling - more people "reacting" to what was getting said.



100% Spot on!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Kuhlkatz

Slightly OT, but i'm 100% with @Silver on this one. Suppliers need to cover their costs, and have overheads which you and I would not fully know what they are exactly. Having a B&M has it's benefits but obviously adds to the costs as TANSTAAFL.
If it's too expensive from supplier A, just get it from supplier B. If supplier A is the only one that stocks it locally, then go with @Andre 's method and source it yourself.
Each of us is able to weigh up the original costs to us from the source & the risks if we order it ourselves vs buying from any of local vendors.

I don't order juices online and prefer to get it from a B&M. This obviously adds to my overheads, but I also don't pay for any shipping options that requires me to order juices by the liter just to make it worth my while.

Any supplier takes a risk when ordering stuff, as they are not guaranteed 100% that hardware items will be fully functional or juices will be in a good condition when it arrives, whatever the shipping method. They have to be prepared to take the risks that some end users are not prepared to take, and then still deal with all the sh!t we give them if devices go faulty or juices taste crap to us.

Hats off to all you guys that ensures the SA vapers gets their hands on best juices & toys !

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 4


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## Rob Fisher



Reactions: Agree 4


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## ET

Alex said:


> Real men vape unflavoured 9mg
> 
> Well real men that are also cheap bastards like me.



even more real real men vape unflavoured 6mg

Reactions: Like 2


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## KB_314

capetocuba said:


> I am not bringing in any juice. I am always on the lookout for new flavours here locally and see quite a price difference for juice that sells for the same price in USA. Actually there's even a top premium (Nicoticket) 30ml juice retailing here for R220.00.


I think it's more about the vendor than the juice

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Cat

Alex said:


> Real men vape unflavoured 9mg
> Well real men that are also cheap bastards like me.



There is good logic in that, even aside from the cost. 

i saw one guy saying he just flavours the base liquid with black peppercorns. That and a bit of menthol could take care of it quite well. You get the throat hit and you get the nicotine, and you don't bother about anything else.

Reactions: Agree 1


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