# Dutch to ban flavours



## Hooked (25/6/20)

https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2020/...s-to-cover-e-cigarettes-plan-to-ban-flavours/
23 June 2020

"The Dutch government is to extend current legislation on smoking to cover electronic cigarettes from July 1, and is also planning an outright ban on flavoured tobacco products for e-cigarettes.

The measures, outlined in a briefing to parliament on Tuesday, are aimed at making smoking less attractive to youngsters. Smoking is to be banned in all school playgrounds from the start of the next academic year and from October 1, cigarettes and rolling tobacco may only be sold in neutral packaging. 

Research by the Trimbos addiction clinic earlier this year showed 27% of 12 to 16-year-olds have used an e-cigarette, as have 44% of vocational and hbo college students. Trimbos also said there is increasing evidence that they are becoming a stepping stone to tobacco. In particular the flavours are attractive to youngsters, as is the low cost. ‘These new insights confirm that the smoke-free generation we are working towards must also be an e-cigarette free generation,’ junior health minister Paul Blokhuis said in the briefing. ‘There is no place for all these tempting, exotic flavours.’ E-cigarettes with tobacco taste will remain on sale as an ‘ultimate aid’ to help hardened smokers stop, Blokhuis said.

A health ministry spokesman told DutchNews.nl that the ban on flavoured c-cigarette products would be achieved via new legislation, with spring 2021 as a target date. Rules are also to be introduced for the IQOS, a type of e-cigarette which heats tobacco. It will fall under the same rules as apply to other tobacco products, with an age limit and advertising ban."

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## vicTor (25/6/20)

great

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1 | Funny 1


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## Room Fogger (25/6/20)

For brains

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## alex1501 (25/6/20)

The place of love for green and red, really?

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## Snape of Vape (25/6/20)

Ugh, hoping that they still sell concentrates to DIY

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## GerharddP (25/6/20)

So how Dutch law works is as follows...to each their own. 

In other words you can do allmost anything you want but if you affect society in a negative manner then they step in. "De gemeente moet geen last van jouw hebben".

This means that you cant buy "pre mixed" flavoured liquids but that you are able to buy everything you need to mix your own. Thats also why sex and drugs are "legal" but if you make an arse of yourself you get punished very harshly for it.

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## CJB85 (26/6/20)

GerharddP said:


> So how Dutch law works is as follows...to each their own.
> 
> In other words you can do allmost anything you want but if you affect society in a negative manner then they step in. "De gemeente moet geen last van jouw hebben".
> 
> This means that you cant buy "pre mixed" flavoured liquids but that you are able to buy everything you need to mix your own. Thats also why sex and drugs are "legal" but if you make an arse of yourself you get punished very harshly for it.


I can get behind something like this then. It means that teenagers won't get flavoured liquids at the corner store, but adults will still be able to mix their own at home.

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## Stranger (26/6/20)

Does this mean that I will get in trouble when I get my neighbors 10 year old to mix my stuff, theoretically speaking of course.

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## CJB85 (26/6/20)

Stranger said:


> Does this mean that I will get in trouble when I get my neighbors 10 year old to mix my stuff, theoretically speaking of course.


He is allowed to mix the base and nicotine for you, but you must add the Strawberry yourself!

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## GerharddP (26/6/20)

Well the law states that parents are responsible for their children thus if you allow your kids to do what they please you will eventually also have to deal with the consiquences of their actions....letting the neighbors kid do that, endangerment of a minor.

Dutch law is more grey than black or white..

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## Timwis (26/6/20)

We are talking about the most liberal country in the world here where practically anything is allowed or a blind eye turned too, maybe it's that liberal approach in the first place that brought this on, 27% of 12 to 16 year old's using e-cigarettes it quite shocking!

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## CJB85 (26/6/20)

Timwis said:


> We are talking about the most liberal country in the world here where practically anything is allowed or a blind eye turned too, maybe it's that liberal approach in the first place that brought this on, 27% of 12 to 16 year old's using e-cigarettes it quite shocking!


While that is true, none of these “so many kids have used a vape” studies mention how many don’t smoke because of it... I smoked as a schoolboy and there were MANY of us. I’m in no way saying kids should vape , I wish I never touched a cigarette, but the one is simply replacing the other. I’d wager that most of these “vaping teens” would be “teen smokers” if vaping didn’t exist. I would have proposed an age restriction on both tobacco and e-cigarettes with SEVERE penalties for anyone supplying either to a minor... like immediate closure of the store and jail time for the owner and staff involved. It needs to be so harsh that no one would ever consider selling to a minor.

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## Timwis (26/6/20)

CJB85 said:


> While that is true, none of these “so many kids have used a vape” studies mention how many don’t smoke because of it... I smoked as a schoolboy and there were MANY of us. I’m in no way saying kids should vape , I wish I never touched a cigarette, but the one is simply replacing the other. I’d wager that most of these “vaping teens” would be “teen smokers” if vaping didn’t exist. I would have proposed an age restriction on both tobacco and e-cigarettes with SEVERE penalties for anyone supplying either to a minor... like immediate closure of the store and jail time for the owner and staff involved. It needs to be so harsh that no one would ever consider selling to a minor.


Problem is minors don't buy e-cigarettes or cigarettes in general irresponsible adults buy for them and trying to police that is pretty impossible!

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## Timwis (26/6/20)

CJB85 said:


> While that is true, none of these “so many kids have used a vape” studies mention how many don’t smoke because of it... I smoked as a schoolboy and there were MANY of us. I’m in no way saying kids should vape , I wish I never touched a cigarette, but the one is simply replacing the other. I’d wager that most of these “vaping teens” would be “teen smokers” if vaping didn’t exist. I would have proposed an age restriction on both tobacco and e-cigarettes with SEVERE penalties for anyone supplying either to a minor... like immediate closure of the store and jail time for the owner and staff involved. It needs to be so harsh that no one would ever consider selling to a minor.


I am of course guilty of not reading the report fully though as things like this come out everyday so i really take it all with a pinch of salt. Things like this have been toted around and reported in various countries about flavour bans and outright e-cigarette bans for at least 5 years now and back then the feeling was very soon flavours would be banned and e-cigarettes will go underground within a couple of years yet 5 years on we just get the same rhetoric but everything actually is the same, i am actually an optimist about the whole thing as i believe before e-cigarettes get banned everywhere common sense will prevail based on the actual science and harm reduction benefits and we will see big u-turns in their acceptance!

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## GerharddP (26/6/20)

To be honest, eventhough they are liberal they are very strict when it comes to engorcing the law.

If they see a suspected minor smoking then they almost launch an investigation into how he/she accuired the smokes and the supplier faces a €4000 fine and or jail time. Its called NIX18 and it means that you use your smart ID to buy ANY "adult" product. One of my favorieten coffe shops only allows 30+ adults in.

They believe very strongly that kids are the future and they spent 90% of our inteligent lockdown trying to find ways of getting the kids back to school.

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## Timwis (26/6/20)

GerharddP said:


> To be honest, eventhough they are liberal they are very strict when it comes to engorcing the law.
> 
> If they see a suspected minor smoking then they almost launch an investigation into how he/she accuired the smokes and the supplier faces a €4000 fine and or jail time. Its called NIX18 and it means that you use your smart ID to buy ANY "adult" product. One of my favorieten coffe shops only allows 30+ adults in.
> 
> They believe very strongly that kids are the future and they spent 90% of our inteligent lockdown trying to find ways of getting the kids back to school.


Love the coffeeshops in Amsterdam and a night in the Milkyway is a real treat!

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## GerharddP (26/6/20)

Timwis said:


> Love the coffeeshops in Amsterdam and a night in the Milkyway is a real treat!


I love Amsterdam but the coffeeshops are easily twice as expensive as the ones in the smaller gemeentes...€20 plus a pop..

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## Timwis (26/6/20)

GerharddP said:


> I love Amsterdam but the coffeeshops are easily twice as expensive as the ones in the smaller gemeentes...€20 plus a pop..


Even in Amsterdam we cottoned on to the more well known ones like the Grasshopper were to rip off visitors and soon realised locals didn't actually use them but after 6 visits and talking to friendly locals we were told where to go to get better prices and be in amongst the locals rather than tourists!

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## Timwis (26/6/20)

Timwis said:


> Even in Amsterdam we cottoned on to the more well known ones like the Grasshopper were to rip off visitors and soon realised locals didn't actually use them but after 6 visits and talking to friendly locals we were told where to go to get better prices and be in amongst the locals rather than tourists!


To add to that the Coffeeshops that tended to be cheaper and used by locals actually sold far better quality! The tourist Coffeeshops are not just dear but sell poor quality at a high price!

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## GerharddP (26/6/20)

Timwis said:


> To add to that the Coffeeshops that tended to be cheaper and used by locals actually sold far better quality! The tourist Coffeeshops are not just dear but sell poor quality at a high price!


Exactly, my favorieten one is one in centrum and its tucked away in a tipycal dutch ally road. They only allow 30+ entry and they sell the best product by far..also have a -1 etage where you can sit and enjoy the evening with mates and the local pannenkoeken

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## Timwis (26/6/20)

GerharddP said:


> Exactly, my favorieten one is one in centrum and its tucked away in a tipycal dutch ally road. They only allow 30+ entry and they sell the best product by far..also have a -1 etage where you can sit and enjoy the evening with mates and the local pannenkoeken


Nice!

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## GerharddP (26/6/20)

You also dont have to deal with all of these pannenkoeken..

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## GerharddP (26/6/20)

Timwis said:


> Nice!





Should be in the whats in your hand thread but cheers mate

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## Timwis (26/6/20)

GerharddP said:


> So how Dutch law works is as follows...to each their own.
> 
> In other words you can do allmost anything you want but if you affect society in a negative manner then they step in. "De gemeente moet geen last van jouw hebben".
> 
> This means that you cant buy "pre mixed" flavoured liquids but that you are able to buy everything you need to mix your own. Thats also why sex and drugs are "legal" but if you make an arse of yourself you get punished very harshly for it.


Don't really follow the logic here in regard to e-liquid. Why would "pre-mixed" affect society in a negative manner anymore than "DIY"? Or are your politicians just arseholes like in our countries?

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## GerharddP (26/6/20)

Timwis said:


> Don't really follow the logic here in regard to e-liquid. Why would "pre-mixed" affect society in a negative manner anymore than "DIY"? Or are your politicians just arseholes like in our countries?


No offence to politicians in here but they are arseholes everywhere

So what they said is that e-liquids are classed now as a tobacco product which they say does affect the general health of those who use it. Now thats where the black and white ends and the grey area starts.

Just like coffeeshops the product sold is presumeably sold to an adult of legal age and sound mind if that makes sense. Thus if you want a "harmfull and addictive" substance added to your eliquid you have to do so yourself, thus the shops bypass the negative impact to their community but still offer you the oppertunity of doing what you seem fit with your body.

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## GerharddP (26/6/20)

GerharddP said:


> No offence to politicians in here but they are arseholes everywhere
> 
> So what they said is that e-liquids are classed now as a tobacco product which they does affect the general health of those who use it. Now thats where the black and white ends and the grey area starts.
> 
> Just like coffeeshops the product sold is presumeably sold to an adult of legal age and sound mind if that makes sense. Thus if you want a "harmfull and addictive" substance added to your eliquid you have to do so yourself, thus the shops bypass the negative impact to their community but still offer you the oppertunity of doing what you seem fit with your body.


This applies to everything. You can be on several psycadelic substances at any given time and the cops wont do a damn thing but if you start being a "last" (for a real lack of a better word) to those around you, you will wish you stayed at home....do not fck with the dutch police man.

They are also known as "The Kings Guard" for a good reason

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## Timwis (26/6/20)

GerharddP said:


> No offence to politicians in here but they are arseholes everywhere
> 
> So what they said is that e-liquids are classed now as a tobacco product which they does affect the general health of those who use it. Now thats where the black and white ends and the grey area starts.
> 
> Just like coffeeshops the product sold is presumeably sold to an adult of legal age and sound mind if that makes sense. Thus if you want a "harmfull and addictive" substance added to your eliquid you have to do so yourself, thus the shops bypass the negative impact to their community but still offer you the oppertunity of doing what you seem fit with your body.


Yeah the whole issue is classing vaping as tobacco products which is short sighted! We don't get much right in the UK but the pro vaping stance Health England and our Government have taken is one!

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## GerharddP (26/6/20)

Timwis said:


> Yeah the whole issue is classing vaping as tobacco products which is short sighted! We don't get much right in the UK but the pro vaping stance Health England and our Government have taken is one!


Yea the thing is that there are so few vapers here that they just dont care to be honest.. they have bigger things to worry about. 

I buy all my nic shots (10ml bottles of 20mg) and 70/30 liquid etc from germany for that reason. I pay around €30 to €35 for one liter depending on the flavours that i add to the order, same order sourced here would be double that becuase of taxes...fckn politicians

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## Timwis (26/6/20)

GerharddP said:


> This applies to everything. You can be on several psycadelic substances at any given time and the cops wont do a damn thing but if you start being a "last" (for a real lack of a better word) to those around you, you will wish you stayed at home....do not fck with the dutch police man.
> 
> They are also known as "The Kings Guard" for a good reason


It is years since i have been to Amsterdam and of course i realise this is just one City but my experience when going around the main tourist areas of Amsterdam is being approached on every street corner by someone trying to sell drugs a bit stronger than weed and at the most the police halfheartedly moved them on for them just to be back again within 5 minutes i didn't actually see your police do Jack! sorry just my experience.

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## GerharddP (26/6/20)

Timwis said:


> It is years since i have been to Amsterdam and of course i realise this is just one City but my experience when going around the main tourist areas of Amsterdam is being approached on every street corner by someone trying to sell drugs a bit stronger than weed and at the most the police halfheartedly moved them on for them just to be back again within 5 minutes i didn't actually see your police do Jack! sorry just my experience.


Not anymore. Like 3 hours ago on my way home from germany I sat in traffic because a woman got arrested on the highway for texting while driving. The netherlands has officially changed their face to the world as they are done with being classed as the sex and drugs capitol of the world.

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## Timwis (26/6/20)

GerharddP said:


> Not anymore. Like 3 hours ago on my way home from germany I sat in traffic because a woman got arrested on the highway for texting while driving. The netherlands has officially changed their face to the world as they are done with being classed as the sex and drugs capitol of the world.


Yeah like i said i have been 6 times but that was between the ages of 20 to 24 so i am talking 25 years ago, at the time your police were so laid back me and my mate had come to the conclusion they were all stoned lol!

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## GerharddP (26/6/20)

Timwis said:


> Yeah like i said i have been 6 times but that was between the ages of 20 to 24 so i am talking 25 years ago, at the time your police were so laid back me and my mate had come to the conclusion they were all stoned lol!


I still think they are... they just now micro dose instead of taking a whole jointje with eerste pauze...

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## GerharddP (26/6/20)

GerharddP said:


> I still think they are... they just now micro dose instead of taking a whole jointje with eerste pauze...


I must say that the same guys that take zero shite will also play water pistol games with my boy and his mates..pretty funny to see these guys lay down their radios etc and get soaking wet before going about their day again.

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## Hooked (27/6/20)

CJB85 said:


> While that is true, none of these “so many kids have used a vape” studies mention how many don’t smoke because of it... I smoked as a schoolboy and there were MANY of us. I’m in no way saying kids should vape , I wish I never touched a cigarette, but the one is simply replacing the other. I’d wager that most of these “vaping teens” would be “teen smokers” if vaping didn’t exist. I would have proposed an age restriction on both tobacco and e-cigarettes with SEVERE penalties for anyone supplying either to a minor... like immediate closure of the store and jail time for the owner and staff involved. It needs to be so harsh that no one would ever consider selling to a minor.



If there had been such harsh penalties, I'm sure most of us would never have started smoking in our teens!

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## GerharddP (27/6/20)

Hooked said:


> If there had been such harsh penalties, I'm sure most of us would never have started smoking in our teens!


Harsh penalties dont mean anything if they are not enforced.

Here they actually enforce the law to the full extent.

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