# Did legislation on e-cigs change?



## LandyMan (30/11/14)

Out and about with the fam and friends all over the place. Ended up at Waffle Restaurant @ Jasmyn, the big windmill just outside Harties. Asked for a non smoking table. The manager says they have one, but I am not allowed to "smoke that thing" (iStick with mAN) in the non smoking area. I explained to him that it is vaping and not smoking.

His response: e-cigarettes fall under the same legislation and laws as normal cigarettes.
Guess where we didn't eat

Reactions: Like 3 | Funny 2


----------



## BumbleBee (1/12/14)

LandyMan said:


> Out and about with the fam and friends all over the place. Ended up at Waffle Restaurant @ Jasmyn, the big windmill just outside Harties. Asked for a non smoking table. The manager says they have one, but I am not allowed to "smoke that thing" (iStick with mAN) in the non smoking area. I explained to him that it is vaping and not smoking.
> 
> His response: e-cigarettes fall under the same legislation and laws as normal cigarettes.
> Guess where we didn't eat


Legislation has not changed as far as I know. Was chatting with the manager of our local spur this weekend, he's also a vaper. According to their franchise policy vaping is classed as smoking (by spur, not legislation) because it goes against their family restaurant ideals and is thus limited to smoking areas. He told me they (head office) are going even further now and are going to be reducing the size of their smoking areas and removing tables and chairs to make it as uncomfortable as possible for smokers.

In your case @LandyMan I think you just encountered a restaurant owner who just blames someone else to get out of dealing with complaints from his non smoking clientele.


----------



## Silver (1/12/14)

As harsh as it may sound, if I was a restaurant owner I would probably also not allow vaping in the non-smoking area

If I was a non smoker, non vaper, I wouldnt want someone next to me blowing clouds of vapour that had a smell of say, a tobacco flavour. I would complain. 

I fully understand. 

We need to be careful not to give vaping a bad name. For a number of years, we went outside for a smoke. We can go outside for a vape. 

Just my view

Reactions: Like 4 | Agree 23 | Winner 1


----------



## LandyMan (1/12/14)

Silver said:


> As harsh as it may sound, if I was a restaurant owner I would probably also not allow vaping in the non-smoking area
> 
> If I was a non smoker, non vaper, I wouldnt want someone next to me blowing clouds of vapour that had a smell of say, a tobacco flavour. I would complain.
> 
> ...


Silver, I agree, BUT don't quote legislation and laws if you don't know what's in them 

Sent from my GT-P6800 using Tapatalk


----------



## Silver (1/12/14)

LandyMan said:


> Silver, I agree, BUT don't quote legislation and laws if you don't know what's in them
> 
> Sent from my GT-P6800 using Tapatalk



By the way, the breakfast at Jasmyn is quite amazing
Pity some guy's view on legislation meant you didnt eat there


----------



## LandyMan (1/12/14)

Silver said:


> By the way, the breakfast at Jasmyn is quite amazing
> Pity some guy's view on legislation meant you didnt eat there


I did ask for a smoking table outside, but they were full ... so definitely not due to a lack of trying

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Paulie (1/12/14)

If i was a restaurant owner i would have a separate vaping area lol well i guess thats cause im bias

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 3


----------



## Natheer Mallick (1/12/14)

I must say, I'm with @Silver on this one. I don't mind going outside, or sitting in a smoking section when I want to vape. Of my friends, there is one smoker, and I'm the only vape, so when we go out, we sit in the non-smoking section for our wives' sake, and step outside when we want to fill our lungs. I treat my vaping the same way I've always treated my smoking. I know it's not the point @LandyMan was making, it's just my view

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 5


----------



## LandyMan (1/12/14)

Natheer Mallick said:


> I must say, I'm with @Silver on this one. I don't mind going outside, or sitting in a smoking section when I want to vape. Of my friends, there is one smoker, and I'm the only vape, so when we go out, we sit in the non-smoking section for our wives' sake, and step outside when we want to fill our lungs. I treat my vaping the same way I've always treated my smoking. I know it's not the point @LandyMan was making, it's just my view



I agree with you ... we sit outside in the smoking area every day at our local watering hole, I have no problem with it whatsoever ... same as I don't vape at my desk in the office.

I do have a problem however with an uninformed Manager at an establishment that quote legislation and laws that don't exist

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Natheer Mallick (1/12/14)

LandyMan said:


> I agree with you ... we sit outside in the smoking area every day at our local watering hole, I have no problem with it whatsoever ... same as I don't vape at my desk in the office.
> 
> I do have a problem however with an uninformed Manager at an establishment that quote legislation and laws that don't exist


True. And to be honest, I would have done the same thing, instead of arguing with him about it lol


----------



## WHITELABEL (1/12/14)

My girlfriend and I had brunch in Rosebank over the weekend and we sat outside in the smoking section, I may be turning into one of those horrible ex smokers, but the people smoking at the table next to me really bothered me. It's definitely not the same as vaping. I can quite happily eat my meal with someone vaping right next to me, trying to enjoy my meal with second hand cigarette smoke wafting into my face is another story entirely. I'm not sure what the solution is, but I'm going to stealth vape in the non smoking section in future rather than sit outside with the stinkies.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## AndreFerreira (1/12/14)

I usually sit in the smoking area at a restaurant and vape, I don't expect non-smoker to be in my clouds. I do stealth vape while walking in the mall and shops though. But the other day a smoker was tuning me about blowing clouds in the smoking area, saying it stinks and it is fogging up the place (vaped Boba's bounty) I just left it and kept on vaping, so he called the manager and the manager asked me to stop using my device as it is upsetting customers. It was only him that was complaining.

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


----------



## LandyMan (1/12/14)

AndreFerreira said:


> I usually sit in the smoking area at a restaurant and vape, I don't expect non-smoker to be in my clouds. I do stealth vape while walking in the mall and shops though. But the other day a smoker was tuning me about blowing clouds in the smoking area, saying it stinks and it is fogging up the place (vaped Boba's bounty) I just left it and kept on vaping, so he called the manager and the manager asked me to stop using my device as it is upsetting customers. It was only him that was complaining.


Hahaha. Now that is just crazy!

Reactions: Agree 3


----------



## Silver (1/12/14)

AndreFerreira said:


> I usually sit in the smoking area at a restaurant and vape, I don't expect non-smoker to be in my clouds. I do stealth vape while walking in the mall and shops though. But the other day a smoker was tuning me about blowing clouds in the smoking area, saying it stinks and it is fogging up the place (vaped Boba's bounty) I just left it and kept on vaping, so he called the manager and the manager asked me to stop using my device as it is upsetting customers. It was only him that was complaining.



Lol @AndreFerreira , Bobas at 100% VG is definitely bound to cause a stir with the clouds
Such a great juice!
I can just imagine

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## BansheeZA (1/12/14)

One thing I can't seem to get in my head is some people willingly go out to places and being a smoker or non smoker and moan about a few hundred people around you. I mean ffs if you don't like people don't go out. There is not one person out there that does everything exactly like you.

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## whatalotigot (1/12/14)

AndreFerreira said:


> I usually sit in the smoking area at a restaurant and vape, I don't expect non-smoker to be in my clouds. I do stealth vape while walking in the mall and shops though. But the other day a smoker was tuning me about blowing clouds in the smoking area, saying it stinks and it is fogging up the place (vaped Boba's bounty) I just left it and kept on vaping, so he called the manager and the manager asked me to stop using my device as it is upsetting customers. It was only him that was complaining.



That is pathetic. You should have lodged a complaint about the twat who was smoking a stinker!!! 

I usually get away with vaping in none smoking areas by blowing cloud under the table or in my jacket or what not. If im told to use the smoking section I let them know this isn't a cig. But don't argue. In the smoking section I go ahead and cloud chase hard. often pi$$ing off many smokers. I really don't care, The smoking are I can do what i want and sub-ohm as far as I want.. But Iv had many fat arguments with idiots who are purely attention seekers or jealous. Grinds my gears. I will continue to abide by restaurant rules. No Problem. But when someone comes up to me and starts making up BS and laws that are not real, I tend to get a little annoyed. I point quickly to the closest computer and say "Google it" genius!

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


----------



## korn1 (1/12/14)

It really is up to the establishment to let you vape or not...sadly

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## Nibbler (2/12/14)

Silver said:


> As harsh as it may sound, if I was a restaurant owner I would probably also not allow vaping in the non-smoking area
> 
> If I was a non smoker, non vaper, I wouldnt want someone next to me blowing clouds of vapour that had a smell of say, a tobacco flavour. I would complain.
> 
> ...



100% Agree. We don't have to go in at full swagger and claim we're not smoking.
We know we're vaping, but that's never going to change the mindsets of other people, especially anti-smoking Nazis.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## 360twin (2/12/14)

It seems to me that we are in need of a third classification: 'vaper's area'. I always sat in the non-smoking area in restaurants as I could never handle smoking and eating  Now I find I cannot handle smoking at all - even standing outside, a whiff of tobacco smoke smells terrible.

I would quite happily eat in a 'vaping area', probably because I understand the process, but I have yet to smell offensive vapour. But I also understand that to the uninformed it appears like smoking, so I would avoid vaping in any area where it might seem offensive.

I think we all need to be a little sensitive to this issue, even though it may be largely based on ignorance.

I vape at my desk at work, but I am 'the boss'. None of my staff vape or smoke, but are only complimentary when remarking on it (usually, 'What flavour is that? It smells nice'). But I am in a separate office; not sure what it might be like sitting next to a 'cloud-chaser' all day


----------



## KB_314 (2/12/14)

Natheer Mallick said:


> I must say, I'm with @Silver on this one. I don't mind going outside, or sitting in a smoking section when I want to vape. Of my friends, there is one smoker, and I'm the only vape, so when we go out, we sit in the non-smoking section for our wives' sake, and step outside when we want to fill our lungs. I treat my vaping the same way I've always treated my smoking. I know it's not the point @LandyMan was making, it's just my view


I agree with both of you, BUT, I was travelling and in the airport had to vape in the very gross "smoking lounge". I don't want to vape in the general area, happy to have to go to a designated area just like smoking... but gimme a "Vaping Lounge"! Vendors... approach airports, seriously, lets see vapers lounges


----------



## WHITELABEL (2/12/14)

I feel that it's our responsibility to normalise vaping. It's not the same as smoking and I refuse to be banished outside to stand with the stinkers. I would rather not vape at all. I literally vape wherever I go though, I was sitting in MTN Morningside for about 2 hours today vaping and nobody said anything. I'm not blowing huge clouds and fogging the place out so it's possible that most people didn't even notice, I just have a couple puffs on my reo or rose and then put it away. If I do get asked to stop "smoking", I look at them quizzically and politely tell them that it's not smoking, but if it's bothering them I will gladly stop.


----------



## ashTZA (3/12/14)

I've found the only complaints I've received about vaping inside or bullshit about "oh I read in some magazine those things are worse than smoking" come from irate smokers.

Non-smokers have only ever been happy I'm not smoking.
Some have even asked me if they could try it; or mentioned how nice it smells.


This might be a silly argument but I think some smokers are so defensive about their smoking and don't want to quit; that they view vaping as a threat.

They've used the addiction & how "impossible it is" for them to quit; as justification for demanding their "right" to have public venues provide spaces to accommodate them.

But with vaping becoming a more viable, "sociably acceptable" alternative;
it threatens what little room they have to negotiate.

To pretend In a what if scenario: vaping becomes more mainstream and acceptable in public spaces; what little space is reserved for smokers could be taken away; or reserved just for vaping; as more smokers make the switch.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 4


----------



## Cat (3/12/14)

There is new legislation (amendments) to the [no smoking] law...in process? - that means that restaurants and bars will not be allowed to have smoking areas. No smoking in public space or within specific distance from public building, and that includes work places. No more standing outside the door to smoke. No more smokers deck and so on.
Vaping, you know what is going to happen - you know about the reactions like mentioned here and you know what the trend is with legislation. Once the bureacrat types get on to something, that's it - no amount of lobbying and so on has any significant effect.

PS: i came to this thread to check what it's about before i tell nicoticket about this: 

_



Unfortunately one or more items in your cart can't be shipped to your location. Please choose a different delivery address. If you believe you have received this message in error, please contact us at contact@nicoticket.com and we will attempt to resolve the issue.

Click to expand...

 _

 i am having a bad time trying to order stuff.


----------



## Patrick (3/12/14)

Ivo Vegter - writer for Daily Maverick - posted an opinion piece yesterday. One of the most balanced articles on e-cigs that I have read. Here's the link: http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/opin...ig-pharma-want-e-cig-regulation/#.VH7HPpOUeIc

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Andre (3/12/14)

Patrick said:


> Ivo Vegter - writer for Daily Maverick - posted an opinion piece yesterday. One of the most balanced articles on e-cigs that I have read. Here's the link: http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/opin...ig-pharma-want-e-cig-regulation/#.VH7HPpOUeIc


Excellent article, thank you.


----------



## Arthster (3/12/14)

I also thought that vaping was under the same laws as tobacco. 

In my case though I enjoy the odd 10 minutes away from my desk at work, I just don't like it when they force me to go sit in the gas chamber. 

I love my stroll-n-vape through the office garden... maybe a little to much at times


----------



## Necropolis (3/12/14)

Silver said:


> As harsh as it may sound, if I was a restaurant owner I would probably also not allow vaping in the non-smoking area
> 
> If I was a non smoker, non vaper, I wouldnt want someone next to me blowing clouds of vapour that had a smell of say, a tobacco flavour. I would complain.
> 
> ...



I agree 1000% 

There seems to be a mentality among many vapers that it is their right to vape where ever they please - restaurants, movies etc... And I believe that this is going to ruin it for the rest of us.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## WHITELABEL (3/12/14)

Necropolis said:


> I agree 1000%
> 
> There seems to be a mentality among many vapers that it is their right to vape where ever they please - restaurants, movies etc... And I believe that this is going to ruin it for the rest of us.


I disagree, it's not smoking. I'm not blowing clouds in anyone's faces, my vapour smells far nicer than many people's perfumes and body odour, but I don't send them outside. If we act like criminals skulking around corners and vaping or by standing with the smokers then that's the perception we are going to create. If we vape inside and just practice a modicum of consideration by not blowing it on people or clouding out the place, I honestly think 99 percent of people wont mind. If you get asked to stop then do so, educate people by explaining it's not smoke, but don't be arrogant or disrespectful. This is how we go about making vaping socially acceptable in my opinion.


----------



## Necropolis (3/12/14)

Just because you disagree doesn't mean that everyone else has the same opinion on the matter (those non-smokers, non-vapers).

Your thoughts on the smell are entirely subjective as well; just because you like it doesn't mean everyone else does. 

I honestly think that brazenly vaping wherever you feel like is going to be detrimental to all vapers - and could even lead to vaping being tarred with the same brush that smoking is. 

I refrain from vaping indoors where smoking is prohibited - just because I can doesn't really mean that I should.

Reactions: Agree 3


----------



## WHeunis (3/12/14)

Gambit said:


> I disagree, it's not smoking. I'm not blowing clouds in anyone's faces, my vapour smells far nicer than many people's perfumes and body odour, but I don't send them outside. If we act like criminals skulking around corners and vaping or by standing with the smokers then that's the perception we are going to create. If we vape inside and just practice a modicum of consideration by not blowing it on people or clouding out the place, I honestly think 99 percent of people wont mind. If you get asked to stop then do so, educate people by explaining it's not smoke, but don't be arrogant or disrespectful. This is how we go about making vaping socially acceptable in my opinion.



To be very blunt about it, there are some juices that smell like a horse's asshole on fire when vaped...
We can't expect restaurants to start carrying lists of what liquids are allowed and which are not.

Beyond that, if anyone attempts to chase me out of anywhere because of my body odour, which is due to a medical situation i can do nothing about - prepare to be skinned alive right on my table mothe*&^&^^%$#!

Reactions: Agree 1 | Winner 1 | Funny 2


----------



## WHITELABEL (3/12/14)

Necropolis said:


> Just because you disagree doesn't mean that everyone else has the same opinion on the matter (those non-smokers, non-vapers).
> 
> Your thoughts on the smell are entirely subjective as well; just because you like it doesn't mean everyone else does.
> 
> ...


Again I disagree. If you act like a smoker then people will treat you like a smoker. As you say, we each have our own opinion. I think the important thing is that we are courteous and respectful of others and take care to how we go about vaping. I think if you have an entitled aggressive attitude, that is going rankle people far worst than anything else.


----------



## WHITELABEL (3/12/14)

WHeunis said:


> To be very blunt about it, there are some juices that smell like a horse's asshole on fire when vaped...
> We can't expect restaurants to start carrying lists of what liquids are allowed and which are not.
> 
> Beyond that, if anyone attempts to chase me out of anywhere because of my body odour, which is due to a medical situation i can do nothing about - prepare to be skinned alive right on my table mothe*&^&^^%$#!


Then as I say, if you get asked to stop, then do so. The point is not shove it in anyone's faces or force them to accept us, it's to show that we have a cleaner, healthier, better alternative to smoking and we want to be able to do the same things as our non-smoking peers without being banished outside into the cold. The aim is to normalise the behaviour, not to become a different kind of smoker.


----------



## Arthster (3/12/14)

Both parties have valid points and I agree that it would be excellent to enjoy the things my peers do without having to run to an abandoned corner where no one ever goes but this is my 10 cents...

My wife is staunch anti smoker and she is the reason I started vaping (She thought it will help me quit altogether). but here is the thing. Smokers are labeled as inconsiderate people because they force there smoke into other peoples air. My not vaping in "Non smoking" Areas is purely me trying not to be labeled the same as the smoking community out there. Yes agreed that when my wife learned (Through many discussions and arguments) that vaping is nothing like smoking, but the fact remains that it took allot of convincing before she would let me vape inside the house.

There are many a personalities out there, and its impossible to say who is right and who is wrong. I don't vape in non smoking places for reasons stated. I don't disagree that it still makes me look like a smoker, however when I was still a smoker I often got asked why smokers don't just take a can of deodorant with them when they smoke (For obvious reference to the smoke smell that I dragged in). Now that I vape, I can go for that quick puff before a meeting and on my return still sit around the same table without everyone bunching up in a corner trying to get a away from my smell.

I often get asked why I don't vape inside the office (Obviously not by HR) and the answer is simple. I might be vaping a flavor that those around me might not like (Two of the flavors I currently vape has caused altercations between me and my non smoking wife).

The other thing is there are people out there with food allergies. My sister in law is allergic to Pineapple, and the vapors from my Pineapple cheesecake caused a minor allergic reaction on Sunday (I didn't tell her what flavor i was smoking, we where sitting outside after Sunday lunch and she asked my mom if she had cooked anything with pineapple (Which she didn't because of the allergy) because her throat feels tight like when she has a reaction. I immediately put the two together and switched tanks. she was fine again after about 15 minutes (Again she didn't know i was switching flavors nor that I was smoking a pineapple flavor).

All I am trying to say is I (Me, Personally and the way I feel about it) would rather stand outside and be called a smoker, then the inconsiderate vapor.

But that is just how I feel about it, and again opinions differ and we are all entitled to ours.

Reactions: Like 5


----------



## Silver (3/12/14)

Guys, you all have valid points and i agree with all of them to an extent

*I think we as vapers should set an example and be considerate to others*

When I vape indoors in shopping centres or at restaurants, I generally do it stealthily, I dont try blow massive clouds. Inhale for a bit longer till I breathe out and noone really notices

Thats all. And i have yet to have a problem

But if someone asked me to stop in a non smoking area, I would comply graciously. But that hasnt happened to me yet.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 4


----------



## WHITELABEL (3/12/14)

Silver said:


> Guys, you all have valid points and i agree with all of them to an extent
> 
> *I think we as vapers should set an example and be considerate to others*
> 
> ...


Exactly what I'm saying and what I do too. Haven't had a complaint yet.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Necropolis (4/12/14)

Gambit said:


> I think if you have an entitled aggressive attitude, that is going rankle people far worst than anything else.



Hit the nail on the head there! 

Maybe it's just me but I do tend to get this attitude from a lot of vapers - "It's not smoking so I will do it wherever I want - screw any body else".


----------



## JakesSA (4/12/14)

There is one aspect perhaps being missed here, separating tobacco smokers from regular folks had another driving force .. to make tobacco smoking socially less acceptable or even unacceptable. Unacceptable to the "second hand smoke is going to give me cancer and I'll be dead in a week" brigade which the tobacco laws have created. This was a reasonably successful act of social engineering btw to the point where many non-smokers cannot logically distinguish between vapour and smoke and can only respond emotionally .. keep that in mind when dealing with them.

Now with socially acceptable most people think of it as "Is it acceptable for me and the people I associate with?" but there is an easy test for whether something should be socially acceptable.

Ask the question "Do I want my kids to do it?" If you don't have kids then perhaps "Do I want kids in general to do it?" If the answer is no then it is not socially acceptable and one should maybe carefully consider acting as though it is. 

Just my 2 cents ...

Reactions: Like 5


----------



## Arthster (4/12/14)

JakesSA said:


> There is one aspect perhaps being missed here, separating tobacco smokers from regular folks had another driving force .. to make tobacco smoking socially less acceptable or even unacceptable. Unacceptable to the "second hand smoke is going to give me cancer and I'll be dead in a week" brigade which the tobacco laws have created. This was a reasonably successful act of social engineering btw to the point where many non-smokers cannot logically distinguish between vapour and smoke and can only respond emotionally .. keep that in mind when dealing with them.
> 
> Now with socially acceptable most people think of it as "Is it acceptable for me and the people I associate with?" but there is an easy test for whether something should be socially acceptable.
> 
> ...


But on that question. Is it acceptable for kids to vape no nicotine ejuice? I was asked that question and did not know how to answer. Technically speaking no nicotine ejuice is candy. But it still has the (and i use the term because thats what kids call it) smoking stigma


----------



## Necropolis (4/12/14)

I really don't see how anyone who was a nonsmoker would get into vaping...

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## BumbleBee (4/12/14)

Necropolis said:


> I really don't see how anyone who was a nonsmoker would get into vaping...


I've switched 2 non-smokers to no-nic vaping, both were hubbly users.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Necropolis (4/12/14)

A regular hubbly smoker is hardly a non-smoker. 

I'm talking those that don't regularly inhale anything - aside from air that is  .


----------



## korn1 (4/12/14)

@Arthster

I don't think they should be allowed to buy any until they are 18. They could get the nicotine juice from someone else so they should not be allowed to vape at all. My 2c

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Necropolis (4/12/14)

korn1 said:


> @Arthster
> 
> I don't think they should be allowed to buy any until they are 18. They could get the nicotine juice from someone else so they should not be allowed to vape at all. My 2c



That said if they are going to then they are going to - I'm sure I'm not the only one here that started smoking when I was waaaaaaaaaaaay younger than 18

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## free3dom (4/12/14)

Necropolis said:


> A regular hubbly smoker is hardly a non-smoker.
> 
> I'm talking those that don't regularly inhale anything - aside from air that is  .



If they're living in Gauteng (or any major city for that matter) then they are inhaling lots of crap that is not (technically) air

Reactions: Like 1


----------

