# Do you still believe in the flavour or Do you look at the price?



## Steven Xhype (8/4/21)

I Believe this has become an issue in the industry... a lot of people don't look for a good flavour any more... they are all looking for a good price and I believe it is just a phase no I am hoping it is just a phase. do we still have flavour chasers out there ????

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## DarthBranMuffin (8/4/21)

For me it is a matter of flavor... I rather spend that little extra on what I know I like than having to go and buy something cheap that I don't know. Then I end up buying a lot more different bottles, which in the long run costs me more than what it would have cost me to just get what I actually like.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 4


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## Steven Xhype (8/4/21)

DarthBranMuffin said:


> For me it is a matter of flavor... I rather spend that little extra on what I know I like than having to go and buy something cheap that I don't know. Then I end up buying a lot more different bottles, which in the long run costs me more than what it would have cost me to just get what I actually like.



Agreed 100% ... that's another issue not a lot of people take into consideration that buying more cheap bottles than buying one decent bottle will cost more... and to then realize the cheap juices eat your coils or cotton so you either end up wasting money or time to replace that every 3rd or 4th day ....

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## Stranger (8/4/21)

I have not bought a commercial juice in over 2 years now. I do seek out reasonably priced one shots.

Reactions: Like 6 | Agree 5


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## Dela Rey Steyn (8/4/21)

Flavour over price all day, any day of the week! I'm sorry, but what's the point of vaping lackluster juices? It's like drinking only for the effect and not to enjoy and savour a good single malt whiskey or a crafted pot-still brandy / gin. For me it's pointless to vape if I'm not going to enjoy it. I've found my preferred profiles and my preferred local juice makers that fit into that bracket, and I'm sticking to them. MY recent renewed foray into DIY is only to be able to help myself when our inept Goverment decides to pull a USA-style hostile ban or outrages taxing.

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## Steven Xhype (8/4/21)

Stranger said:


> I have not bought a commercial juice in over 2 years now. I do seek out reasonably priced one shots.


That's understandable but you do consider good quality one-shots compared to the cheaper brands? would you rather spend a little extra on a one-shot that you are happy with or would you purely seek low priced one-shots?

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## Steven Xhype (8/4/21)

Dela Rey Steyn said:


> Flavour over price all day, any day of the week! I'm sorry, but what's the point of vaping lackluster juices? It's like drinking only for the effect and not to enjoy and savour a good single malt whiskey of a crafted pot-still brandy / gin. For me it's pointless to vape if I'm not going to enjoy it. I've found my preferred profiles and my preferred local juice makers that fit into that bracket, and I'm sticking to them. MY recent renewed foray into DIY is only to be able to help myself when our inept Goverment decides to pull a USA-style hostile ban or outrages taxing.



"savour a good single malt whiskey of a crafted pot-still brandy / gin." Couldn't have said it any better!!

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## Stranger (8/4/21)

I DIY and compare what I can make VS the one shot prices and am particular about what I buy and often do the research about where the recipe came from.

An example of that is Bamango by Theo Thiart. R120 for 30 mls at 10% gives 300 mls of juice. I even did a thread about the costings.

https://www.ecigssa.co.za/is-my-math-right.t71081/

So I am very cost conscious. In saying that, I am part of a very specific demographic. This being a money savvy older man nearing retirement age who is making a very hard push to squirrel what he can away for retirement. I am self employed, no company % pay in here.

So to answer your question it is about both, the flavour must be value for money. Bamango is a very good example of that.

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## Puff the Magic Dragon (8/4/21)

@Steven Xhype .

Are you saying that the more expensive concentrates produce better flavour than the cheaper flavours?

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## CMMACKEM (8/4/21)

Steven Xhype said:


> I Believe this has become an issue in the industry... a lot of people don't look for a good flavour any more... they are all looking for a good price and I believe it is just a phase no I am hoping it is just a phase. do we still have flavour chasers out there ????



It is not a particular flavor I buy but more a particular brand or eliquid from a mixologist and price is not a factor. One company's strawberry milk or fruit loops is very different to another company's.
The issue is that the smaller eliquid companies that usually have the more complex flavors have smaller marketing budgets than the more commercial brands such as Jam Monster and Keep It 100 who can market and promote their products to more people. Most vapers never hear about these smaller companies or artisan/boutique eliquids. 

I am personally most definitely a flavor chaser.

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## ace_d_house_cat (8/4/21)

I didn't vote because I can't choose. It's combination of the two for me, with ratios changing per purchase.

Reactions: Like 4 | Can relate 1


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## Stranger (8/4/21)

I think a whole lot has to be said around the psychology of marketing. Look at some of the labels, they are superb. Real artistry that appeals to the buyer. I am willing to bet that many juices are sold off the label alone. This of course makes it taste better, just like that car with the go faster stripes .....

Then there is the name ..... I personally love the recipes from @Rude Rudi @ivc_mixer and Theo Thiart. If I see these then I know that there is a good recipe there, DIY, one shot or commercial. These things mean more to me than price or a label.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1 | Winner 1


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## ace_d_house_cat (8/4/21)

Stranger said:


> I think a whole lot has to be said around the psychology of marketing. Look at some of the labels, they are superb. Real artistry that appeals to the buyer. I am willing to bet that many juices are sold off the label alone. This of course makes it taste better, just like that car with the go faster stripes .....
> 
> Then there is the name ..... I personally love the recipes from @Rude Rudi @ivc_mixer and Theo Thiart. If I see these then I know that there is a good recipe there, DIY, one shot or commercial. These things mean more to me than price or a label.



I could not agree more. I am a non-smoker and I'd like to think I have a great sense of taste and smell. I have relatively flavourful RTA and RDAs so I don't think I am disadvantaged in that department either. The flavour profile advertised on juices versus what you actually taste just does not match up. A pro

I have learned the heard way and I try not to get sucked in by a new and/or attractive labour with the "hope" of the profile being spot on. 

I have found (in my opinion) the most flavourful e-liquid and I (mostly) stick to them. Juice like (but not limited to) TKO Milkshakes, Jam Monster, a few custard juices and my all-time favourite; Loaded Glazed Donut.

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## Adephi (8/4/21)

Dela Rey Steyn said:


> It's like drinking only for the effect and not to enjoy and savour a good single malt whiskey or a crafted pot-still brandy / gin.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 3


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## Dela Rey Steyn (8/4/21)

Adephi said:


> View attachment 227026

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## Puff the Magic Dragon (8/4/21)

I really don't understand the point about the cost being directly related to flavour.

If a company made a 30 ml juice at 10% concentrate using only expensive concentrates (this is not common) their cost would be around R 33 for the concentrates. If another company made similar juice using mid-range to cheap concentrates their cost would be around R 17. These are retail prices for concentrates at the price of 10ml bottles and therefore way higher than the actual cost to manufacturers. All other costs would be similar (PG/VG/Nic).

The cost for the more expensive juice may in reality be even lower than R 33 because some of the expensive flavours are more concentrated and therefore require less in the mix.

The worst-case scenario would result in an expensive juice costing R 16 more per 30ml of juice.

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## ace_d_house_cat (8/4/21)

Puff the Magic Dragon said:


> I really don't understand the point about the cost being directly related to flavour.
> 
> If a company made a 30 ml juice at 10% concentrate using only expensive concentrates (this is not common) their cost would be around R 33 for the concentrates. If another company made similar juice using mid-range to cheap concentrates their cost would be around R 17. These are retail prices for concentrates at the price of 10ml bottles and therefore way higher than the actual cost to manufacturers. All other costs would be similar (PG/VG/Nic).
> 
> ...



That figure x 10 and you get to the industry average selling price.

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## JordanEpic (8/4/21)

Flavour all day long, but if you can get both? Why not.. 

For example NCV released the Slick range that absolutely kills it in the price category.. it's ISO 7 and it's an exceptional flavour.. I have one mod that only runs with Slick strawberry milkshake.. month after month after month.

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## Viper_SA (8/4/21)

I believe flavor is important, but I also believe some manufacturers are really hiking prices far above what the juice is worth. Some cheaper juices really hits the spot for me, while some very expensive one (comparable to imported juice) just doesn't cut it. They are expensive simply because a certain segment of the market is hyping them up and therefor making them more "popular" 
I was recently contacted by a manufacturer after inquiring about a certain juice. When I converted the price to R/ml I realized just how ridiculously expensive the juice was and passed on it immediately. I have since found a very similar juice and tasted said manufacturer's juice and I much prefer the cheaper juice. So more expensive isn't always better, but it takes just one person to hype up a juice and suddenly everyone wants to try it.

So, in the end for me it's a fine balance between finding what is tasty to me but still affordable. I won't be jumping on any band wagon anytime soon.

Reactions: Like 3 | Winner 1


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## Dela Rey Steyn (8/4/21)

Price is definitely not directly related to quality, never have, never will be.

But in vaping, for every proper company (NCV, etc) that bring out a cheaper budget line of quality product, there is equal or a larger amount of fly-by-nights that want to just make money and try and peddle bathtub juice to unsuspecting noobie (and some veteran - not pro, there is no pro in vaping) vapers with the price point. *ahem* *cough* Hufflepuff!*cough*

Go to vape shop / browse online shop.
See juice prices - have mini budget driven heart attack
spot cheaper juice, prices looks good, nice bottles, good website/label blurb
buy cheaper juice, pat oneself on the back for "saving money"
Try juice and experience one of the following:
Kakka-poopoo 
Bland AF  WTF! (Where's The Flavour????)
Sucrose Overloaded Coil Killing Machine 
Hey! This is kinda good! 
*PS: This applies to some Expensive liquids too!*
Some juices are "Pricier" but I know them, I know the quality, I know the flavour and enjoy it. So yes. I will keep on spending money on that juice, although it is pricier that some other juices on the market.

Some juices are cheaper, but they are good and I enjoy them(3rd World, etc), so I will continue buying, even though it's cheaper than other juices.

Vaper's prerogative is a beautiful thing.

Going back to the initial question:

"I Believe this has become an issue in the industry... a lot of people don't look for a good flavour any more... they are all looking for a good price"

Yes, a lot of new and veteran vapers are buying juice based on price these days because money is tight. Some of them good, some mediocre and quite a few just bad. But they keep on buying what suits their respective pockets. They stop buying juices they like because they simply can't justify the costs. This is sad and not all people are lucky enough to have that disposable income that affords them to have R2-3k monthly vape purchases. It's a trend and it's going to stay for a while because our economy is Up2Shite.

Best way around this, is to go the DIY route with mixing or One-shots IMHO. I suck at DIY mixing (which SWAMBO finds very amusing, because I love cooking and I personally feel I have an above average palette ) But I am lucky enough to be able to (most months) fund my vaping requirements.

I don't think the post was meant to "Throw shade" at budget juices, but more to ascertain whether people are more inclined to continue paying for the juices they know and love or are they also switching to looking at budget friendly alternatives.

Reactions: Like 5 | Winner 2


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## Viper_SA (8/4/21)

Dela Rey Steyn said:


> Some juices are cheaper, but they are good and I enjoy them(3rd World, etc), so I will continue buying, even though it's cheaper than other juices.



Must admit I have 3 of their juices and I can't fault them at all.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## CMMACKEM (8/4/21)

JordanEpic said:


> Flavour all day long, but if you can get both? Why not..
> 
> For example NCV released the Slick range that absolutely kills it in the price category.. it's ISO 7 and it's an exceptional flavour.. I have one mod that only runs with Slick strawberry milkshake.. month after month after month.



I think NCV must be the most consistent local juice maker in South Africa.

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## Dela Rey Steyn (8/4/21)

CMMACKEM said:


> I think NCV must be the most consistent local juice maker in South Africa.


I'm not a fan of all their juices, simply because it's not my profile (Damn I miss APEX) but they have all been quality, well rounded juices, top shelf always!

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## CMMACKEM (8/4/21)

Apex was amazingly good and accurate. 

My top 5 local would be:

1. Creamy Clouds - Pear Caramel
2. NCV - Frozen
3. Creamy Clouds Lemon Cream
4. NCV - Apex
5. Mr Hardwicks - Debbie Does Donuts

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## Hooked (8/4/21)

Steven Xhype said:


> I Believe this has become an issue in the industry... a lot of people don't look for a good flavour any more... they are all looking for a good price and I believe it is just a phase no I am hoping it is just a phase. do we still have flavour chasers out there ????



Unfortunately it's true - most people care only about price - and they don't care where they buy the juice either. Even if it's fake they don't care.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 2


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## JordanEpic (8/4/21)

CMMACKEM said:


> Apex was amazingly good and accurate.
> 
> My top 5 local would be:
> 
> ...


Debbie Does Donuts was an oldddd classic I used to get it all the time

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## Hooked (9/4/21)

JordanEpic said:


> Debbie Does Donuts was an oldddd classic I used to get it all the time



That was a great one indeed!

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## Steven Xhype (9/4/21)

Puff the Magic Dragon said:


> @Steven Xhype .
> 
> Are you saying that the more expensive concentrates produce better flavour than the cheaper flavours?



@Puff the Magic Dragon, Not at all, all I'm saying is people only worry about price where it used to only be about the flavour and the love of vaping to enjoy a good flavour, price wasn't even a factor...

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## Steven Xhype (9/4/21)

My post was def not intended to throw shade at any of the juices out there ... if you enjoy budget juice then yes go for it (price shouldn't be a factor) if you enjoy premium go for it (price shouldn't be a factor) it's all about enjoying the juice you buy and not buying juice cheap fake juice just to keep vaping ...

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## Stranger (15/4/21)

I have come back to this thread as I just received my Red Pill one shot delivery (with other stuff from Blck). A google search shows me Red Pill in 100 ml bottles available commercially for around 300 ZAR.

The one shot is 160 ZAR which will make me 270 mls at a cost of 192 ZAR.

So this is a considerable saving for me in ZAR but I do have to add in my labour cost, cost of bottles and of course the risk of mixing is my own.

Will I get a better or worse experience from the one shot versus the commercial bottle. I will never know because I don't want to pay 300 bucks for a bottle of 100 ml that I will finish before a week. I am however happy at the cost and labour for the one shot.

I get your point I really do. Belts are tightening and just like some guys will change brands and get cheaper smokes, so some guys will look for less expensive juice. In this instance Red Pill should be exactly the same flavour, but you have paid the premium for some one to mix it and bottle it for you.

I have no issue with either and have much more success with mixing one shots than my own poor creations. Viva La one shot.

Reactions: Like 8 | Agree 1


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## ace_d_house_cat (15/4/21)

Stranger said:


> I have come back to this thread as I just received my Red Pill one shot delivery (with other stuff from Blck). A google search shows me Red Pill in 100 ml bottles available commercially for around 300 ZAR.
> 
> The one shot is 160 ZAR which will make me 270 mls at a cost of 192 ZAR.
> 
> ...



Well done, I'm glad you've found a cheaper solution.

For me, I have tried the one shot route and have somewhat given up on it, here's why;

I have been purchasing milkshake one shots from a few providers for some time now. After mixing and steeping, the flavour is good and (what seemed to be) satisfactory). I thought that this would be a huge saving going forward... Until I bought a bottle of TKO Blue Milk (an impulse buy) and vaped a tank of that directly after the stuff I'd mixed. Boy was I in for a shock! Whilst the one shot bubblegum milkshake was good, it came nowhere close to the TKO e-liquid. For me, I will always know that it's not as good and I can't live with that. 

I have been a bit more adventurous and tried stuff like "cinnamon roll" etc. and expected it to close to commercial juices. The truth is, it just isn't.

I look for good value juices because it seems to be my only option for now...

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## Jean claude Vaaldamme (15/4/21)

Well its flawed, because we all have bought plenty expensive juices that is pretty bad or bland. So I would rather try a cheap juice at R150 for 120ml and its a fail, than have a fail with a R320 100ml juice

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## Hooked (15/4/21)

ace_d_house_cat said:


> Well done, I'm glad you've found a cheaper solution.
> 
> For me, I have tried the one shot route and have somewhat given up on it, here's why;
> 
> ...



I don't know how one shots are made so I'm not pointing fingers at anyone, but I wonder if perhaps one of the original concentrates has been left out or the ratio of concentrates has been changed slightly? Sometimes when you ask someone for a food recipe they'll give it to you with a smile - but without telling you about this, that or the other. IF this is the case with one shots I don't blame the juice-maker at all. After all, he spent months getting it just right.

Furthermore, the VG, PG and nic which we add to one shots is more than likely not the same as that which the juice-maker uses in the original, so the taste would be different.

However, if a one shot is "good enough" then so be it. Good enough is good enough!!

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## ace_d_house_cat (16/4/21)

Hooked said:


> I don't know how one shots are made so I'm not pointing fingers at anyone, but I wonder if perhaps one of the original concentrates has been left out or the ratio of concentrates has been changed slightly? Sometimes when you ask someone for a food recipe they'll give it to you with a smile - but without telling you about this, that or the other. IF this is the case with one shots I don't blame the juice-maker at all. After all, he spent months getting it just right.
> 
> Furthermore, the VG, PG and nic which we add to one shots is more than likely not the same as that which the juice-maker uses in the original, so the taste would be different.
> 
> However, if a one shot is "good enough" then so be it. Good enough is good enough!!



I agree with you here. 

My issue is not that a one shot is "bad" or "less than satisfactory". My issue is that most are pitched as "the same flavour, etc. at a lower price". In my experience so far, this has not been the case. 

It is good, however (in this instance) not the same as a store-bought finished product. Some people can But I can't live with that.

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## ARYANTO (16/4/21)

JordanEpic said:


> Debbie Does Donuts was an oldddd classic I used to get it all the time


Debbie does Dallas was much more fun ...

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## Silver (16/4/21)

I find price is generally not an indicator of whether I will like a juice

I have tried loads of juices in all price brackets and I found several that I like. Some are on the cheaper side and some more expensive.

As an example, I love Prime Fizz Apple Ice which is on the cheaper side and I love Taviro and Havana Nightz which are more expensive

what I do to make the juice last longer is I dilute it with PG/VG. I started at like 1/3 of PG/VG and 2/3 of the commercial juice. Now I’m nearing 1/3 of commercial juice. But if the juice is good it’s still a great vape even if the flavour is a bit weaker. If a juice costs a bit more it doesn’t make much of a difference when you dilute it down.

I can understand though that testing out juices can be expensive. That’s why it’s best to try before you buy or swop juices at vape meets etc (which has been non existent since Covid) but that’s the idea

haven’t bought an international juice for a long time. Prefer to support local and its great to be able to interact with the local mixologist when the opportunity arises

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