# The future of refilling - what would you like to see?



## RichJB (14/5/16)

Hello all

Witnessing the absolute flood of new gear over the last year or so, it's obvious that the industry is in the midst of both a boom and a learning curve. But while the devices have improved in leaps and bounds and are almost unrecognisably more efficient and effective than what was available five years ago, it's also apparent to me that the industry and its products will still improve dramatically. To draw a computing analogy, I think that the next-gen vapers will look back on today's gear with the same slightly bemused nostalgia that PC users now look back on tape drives, floppy disks and dir DOS commands.

The one aspect of vape device design that really interests me is the refilling aspect. Designers have already implemented a range of mechanisms, most of which strike me as short-term solutions. As refilling is the single most regular routine with tanks, I want it to be as smooth, easy, convenient and idiot-proof as possible. The refilling mechanism of each tank is one of the most important features that I assess in considering whether to buy or not. In reverse order of preference, these are some of the mechanisms offered:

1) Bottom fill screw such as on the Goblin Mini V1. No, Youde, that is not going to work. Thankfully corrected now with top fill on the V2.

2) Bottom fill in general, inverting the tank, unscrewing the base, refilling and then reattaching tank to base. For a daily routine, this strikes me as being very clumsy. It has fallen out of favour quickly, and rightly so.

3) Top fill in general, unscrewing the top portion of the tank, filling through slots, reattaching the top portion of the tank. Better than bottom fill, for sure, but is having to unscrew the top of the tank every single day an ideal solution?

4) Top cup fill as per the Joyetech Cubis and Eleaf Lyche tanks, where the entire coil and chimney assembly slides out, leaving just a glass cup to fill. Really easy as it doesn't even require a nozzle or dropper, you can just pour juice in direct from the bottle. Plus it seems relatively leak-proof. But, again, unscrewing...

5) Hinged solutions like the swivel cap on the Smok or the little sliding flap on the Avocado 24. Neat and ingenious but I have to wonder at the longevity of such a mechanism. I have read many tales of woe from Smok users of the swivel cap opening in their pocket...

6) Side fill via a sliding or lifting ring on the top portion of tank, as per the Eleaf Melo 2 (sliding ring) or the OBS tanks (lifting ring). Now we're talking. The ease of refilling was a major factor in me choosing the iStick 60W and Melo 2 combo for my first starter kit. It's not perfect, I usually get a tiny bit of juice running down the outside of the tank after filling. But compared to having to take the tank apart to fill, I'll live with it.

7) Top fill slots next to the drip tip like the Zephyrus V2. This looks really simple and easy for me, although there may be issues with the drip tip getting in the way of your nozzle or dropper.

So where would I like to see refilling in a few years? For me, it's obvious - through the drip tip itself. I would like to see a design where twisting the drip tip through 90 degrees shuts off the chimney. Pouring juice through the drip tip would see it diverted into the tank. Then twist the drip tip 90 degrees in the reverse direction and it seals the tank while opening the chimney again. I have no idea how it could be effected but that would be my perfect refilling solution. Although I'm not an engineer so there is a high degree of probability that I'm talking bollocks.

What is your favourite refilling mechanism currently, and how would you like to see refilling improved in the future?

Reactions: Like 3


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## Rob Fisher (14/5/16)

Number 3 works best for me... like the Gemini.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Kalashnikov (14/5/16)

Your filling idea is genius... Complicated to make probably but genius none the less

Reactions: Like 1


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## Genosmate (14/5/16)

I have a Masters in talking 'bollocks' and I'm with you,the idea of refilling thru the drip tip is genius.
Don't know if it can work though!


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## BumbleBee (14/5/16)

I remember a time long long ago when top filling a Kayfun was considered an art form, now as with all things it has become a lost art, in the name of progress I suppose  Do I miss top filling my Kayfun? Not one bit! I run a series of Billow v2 RTA's which are bottom fill tanks by means of unscrewing the tank from the base and squirting liquid into the upturned tank through fairly generously sized slots, this works just fine for me. I did like the idea of the slide open side fill on the Crius and the swivel top on the TFV4 but with those two methods I would always have some amount of juice left on the tank that needed to be cleaned up after filling which annoys me far more than just unscrewing a thing. 

Filling through the drip tip sounds great and would eliminate the need to find a safe place to place the part that you would normally have to remove on most tanks for refilling. At the moment I'm perfectly happy with the way I do it now though because it's far simpler than what I "grew up" with.

Reactions: Like 1


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## brotiform (14/5/16)

Eleaf Lyche makes use of a sliding side fill option , not removal.

If this kind of feature could be implemented on the top of the cap rather than side , that would be me happy. A click open , a click closed , easy as pie


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## RichJB (14/5/16)

Correct, brotiform, sorry I got confused with the Cubis as they both use the cup tank and top assembly principle. Have you had a look at the Zephyrus 2? That looks like a system you might enjoy, with two slots next to the drip tip.


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## brotiform (14/5/16)

@RichJB not as of yet


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## blujeenz (14/5/16)

RichJB said:


> So where would I like to see refilling in a few years? For me, it's obvious - through the drip tip itself. I would like to see a design where twisting the drip tip through 90 degrees shuts off the chimney. Pouring juice through the drip tip would see it diverted into the tank.


Nice idea, should be easy enough to implement, driptip with juice partition, orings in the tank wall, tooth in the bottom of the driptip to limit rotation to 90 degrees.
Would still need to close off juice flow though.

Reactions: Like 3 | Winner 1


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## Spydro (14/5/16)

Early on in my vaping the Kir Fanis tanks I used on ProVari's had a knurled thumb screw on the top on the cap that was o-ring sealed. You simply unscrewed/removed it with thumb/finger and filled the tank via the now open hole. But it required a needle tip bottle or a syringe/blunt tip needle, and it didn't provide a way for displaced air in the tank to vent except via the same hole. That meant using a small gauge needle and slow fill to accomplish without having juice bubbling out on the top cap. A non issue for me as I had both types of refill options. But an issue was the chance of dropping/loosing the small screw. They supplied extras of the tiny o-ring but not the special tiny knurled screw. The screw was also unsightly, and might get in the way when drawing through the DT. Note, this is a so called carto tank, but I hate cartos so used By Leo Sopia RTA's in them.






Another carto tank I instead used the flow control Greek RTA's in became my tank of choice. VapourArt GP SnP tanks (Salt and Pepper) were a huge improvement where you simply turned the outer top cap just a few degrees to expose two o-ring sealed holes on the top of the main top cap to fill via one while the other would vent the displaced air in the tank. VA's world renowned machining capabilities made these tanks very easy to refill and they never leaked. The more ample hole size allowed some droppers and some bottle nozzels, but my needle tip refill bottles were still faster and easier. No parts are taken off the tank, no parts dropped and lost. 






The SnP system could be easily incorporated into any of these tanks I've bought recently for the regulated mods. On some of them with fill/vent holes large enough to accommodate just about any e-liquid bottle dropper/nozzle. A way easier solution than designing a fool proof system to fill via the drip tip maybe, that also has the possibility of juice in the DT to deal with after a refill.

Now days the Luer Lock needle bottle caps themselves can be bought separately in sizes to fit many different bottle neck/thread sizes as possible replacement for the caps/nozzels that the premade liquid bottles come with.

Reactions: Like 1


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## RichJB (14/5/16)

Thanks Spydro, great info! That SnP system looks very much like the top-slot system which Youde have now implemented on the Zephyrus V2.


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## YeOldeOke (14/5/16)

TBH I don't know why easy filling is such an apparent puzzle for tank manufacturers.

Most 'top-filling' tanks are essentially the same as the old Kayfun/Orchid type tanks, minus a fill screw at the bottom. They have the same obvius problem.
If you have to screw down/push down the top of the tank after filling you create pressure, and as soon as you open the juice flow control - the only difference really to the Kayfun - the pressure will push the juice out. Fillin say a Griffen from the top is no different than filling a Kayfun from the top, except I can get the Kayfun to leak less.

What ever filling solution is adopted, creating pressure in the tank on closing is just downright stupid, and I sometime wonder about the designers.
Solution seems simple to me.

Filling via the driptip will result in the driptip being coated in juice, not an ideal solution IMHO. Why not just a fill hole with a little plug of some sort, that won't create pressure on insertion. Not really rocket science.


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## Silver (14/5/16)

I like your original post @RichJB - find it very interesting readingi this thread
You are right that refilling is an important repetitive task that needs to be easy.

Your idea of filling through the drip tip is cool. Nice diagram @blujeenz 

Will be interesting to see where the next generation techniques of refilling take us

Reactions: Thanks 2


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## Rob Fisher (14/5/16)

Big problem with drip tip refill is if a tank won't accept my custom drip tips they end up in the gorge!

Reactions: Agree 1


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## Mac75 (14/5/16)

@RichJB @blujeenz brilliant idea. Airflow is also important. A little notch slider type of thingie on the bottom part of the channel in the drip tip ribbed for air and juice. Cos as juice goes in it has to breathe. Otherwise you will get an airlock.


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## Mac75 (14/5/16)

Rob Fisher said:


> Big problem with drip tip refill is if a tank won't accept my custom drip tips they end up in the gorge!



You could make it accessible after you remove your custom drip tip. So effectively located at the top most part of the chimney. I think

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


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## Mac75 (14/5/16)

@brotiform chk the classifieds. Theres a zep v2 for sale 


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## DrSirus-88 (14/5/16)

Defiantly number 3. The unscrewing of the top cap is no problem for me especially on the Aromamizer Supreme (just make sure the juice channel is closed) I have a TFV4 Smok tank with the clip open top too and find that breezy.

I get very frustrated with the bottom fill tanks, especially my rebuildable Goliath V2. 

Interested to see what comes next though.


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## Byakko (19/5/16)

I'm not a fan of side filling as I tend to spill and I lost my Ipv screen to a leaking protank so I am quite happy with taking my tank off to fill it.The only thing I never spill is my beer,ironically :/

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