# More Vape... Less Smoke



## ShaneW (14/1/14)

Hi guys

Really glad to have found this forum, had no idea there were so make vapers around. I'm in East London and there are no suppliers here so have to order everything online.

Was given a ego ce4 for Xmas from my sister who came over from UK on holiday and am loving it. Tried to quit smoking many times, all unsuccessfully, except once. Messed it up after 2 yrs though and been smoking since. I realise the ce4 is a cheapy so if this works will invest in a decent one. 

What I realised from trying to quit is that, for me... the habit of smoking is easy to conquer. The nicotine addiction is what killed me... constant bad moods and irritable. Ended up taking it out on the wife and kids so back to smoking it was. 

I have only been vaping for about 5 days now and have dropped from 16-25 to 2-3 a day. 

My problem is that the nicotine kills the craving and moods for the large part but still feel irritable in the evenings unless i have a smoke. Did this happen to anyone else? Hoping it will subside and can chuck the smokes for good. 

Started using 24mg, instead of 12mg which makes me feel a little light headed. Lol. But at least I'm not vaping every 2 mins.


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## Tom (14/1/14)

Hi,

welcome to the forum. I was irritable for a week or 2, it went away. just vape on


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## Stroodlepuff (14/1/14)

Welcome to the family Shane  



> My problem is that the nicotine kills the craving and moods for the large part but still feel irritable in the evenings unless i have a smoke. Did this happen to anyone else?



Happens to most of us - I still was on the stinkies for a good month and a bit after I started vaping - but the more you vape the less appealing stinkies become!


Remember everyone is here to help so dont be afraid to ask 
Congratulations on your first 5 days it can only get better from here


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## TylerD (14/1/14)

Hi Shane. Welcome to the forum. Just keep it up. The irritation will subside and cigs will become very unsatisfactory. 
Have a great stay here. Ask, ask and ask anything. No questions are stupid. We all help around here. If you have any input, please share as well! Cool.


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## Andre (14/1/14)

Hi Shane. Welcome to the forum. The "article" below was useful for me. I is quite long (so long I will have to submit over two posts), but might be of help.

*Part 1*New e-cigarette users who are attempting to convert to an e-cig from smoking have dozens of questions. One of the most common is, "What nicotine strength do I need?". A variant on this is, "I smoked one and a half packs a day of lights, what nicotine liquid strength should I use?"

Unfortunately, it doesn't work like this. It is not advisable to try to compare cigarette nicotine levels with e-cigarette liquid nicotine levels because there are too many variables, both in the relative absorption levels for smoke and vapor, and those introduced by the user. Even if a situation could be arranged where exactly the same amount of nicotine is available in both the cigarette smoke and the e-cig vapor (which would not work anyway, as it needs to be higher in the vapor since it is absorbed less well), the end result will be different, for each user.

For example, a person who smoked less than half a pack a day may need 36mg liquid to avoid cravings (and show absolutely no signs of nicotine OD while using it); a person who was on 2 PAD may be happy with 18mg. There is no comparison possible because the end result required is satisfaction / lack of cravings in an individual - and individuals vary so much in their tolerance to / requirement for a given substance that there is no 'scale' that can be devised.

There are some useful things to keep in mind here, though:


Using an e-cig is different to smoking a tobacco cig. Newbies have such bad technique they may only get a fraction of the nicotine that an experienced vaper would get from basically the same set-up.
It is difficult to make your e-liquid stronger, but very easy to make it weaker.

Because of this it is a good idea to get some high-strength 36mg liquid with your first order. If, while using the 24mg commonly supplied with Starter Kits, after several days you still experience strong cravings, you can try the 36mg liquid. On the other hand, if your main liquid is too strong, you can add VG (available at any pharmacy) to it, to reduce the strength to whatever is required. Another way to do this is to use 'zero-nic doubler liquid' from your vendor - this is flavored base liquid with no nicotine that is specifically made for reducing the strength with.

If you have some 24mg strength liquid, and add an equal amount of VG or doubler liquid to it, you then have 12mg strength liquid, double the original quantity. Adding VG will reduce the strength of the flavor, however. Adding 'doubler liquid' decreases the nicotine strength but maintains the flavor level.


*Transition policy*
During your first week with an e-cigarette you will most likely experience some cravings for a cigarette. One reason for this is because tobacco contains more than nicotine, there are several substances we call WTAs or whole tobacco alkaloids, in lower quantity than nicotine, that some people (but not all) will miss. These include nornicotine, anabasine, anatabine and myosmine. Nicotine is not the only active alkaloid in tobacco, although it is present in much higher quantities than the others.

Many people actually get over this stage fairly quickly, though some don't. The best advice is very simple indeed: don't worry. If you still need to smoke, then do so. Ideally you will cut down - and cut down drastically. If you can't, then here are some ways to improve your e-cigarette's effect.


Use higher-strength e-liquid. Uness you have tried 36mg strength then you have not explored the most likely cause of continued cravings. Some have a very high tolerance to nicotine and this is notrelated to how much they smoked.
Vape more. Do not restrict yourself to use of the e-cigarette only when you would have smoked, it's OK to use it more often, and for longer. Some vape twice as much as they smoked, in the initial stages especially.
If progress seems slow, then you may need more power. Basic e-cigarette models deliver about 4 watts of power or less, and you may need 6, 8 or even as much as 10 watts or more in order to 'get over the hump'. The quickest/cheapest way to increase power is to change to LR (low resistance) atomizers or cartomizers - these will get you up to 6 or 7 watts, although they cannot be used on a mini ecig (they should be used on a mid-size model or APV, an advanced personal vaporizer aka a 'mod').
You can get a mid-size ecig in order to use one of these LR heads (end fittings), or get a cheap APVsuch as a 5 volt boxmod for use with your regular fittings (not the LR ones). Finally, the most costly - but possibly the best long-term solution - is to get a VV (variable voltage) APV that can be set to exactly the right voltage you need at the time. All these models are larger than a mini, but work better.
If your smoking is gradually reducing, you are winning. If you still have strong cravings after 3 weeks, and have tried 36mg liquid from at least two different vendors (there is always a possibility that one supplier's products may not be the full strength as marked), and have also tried higher power with no improvements - and if you want to get through this bit as quickly as possible - then your best course of action is to add Snus to your regime.

Swedish Snus is a specially processed oral tobacco that comes in micro pouches. Most of the carcinogens have been removed by the special processing, and the remaining amounts are low enough to have no significant risk. A Snus user has the same risk of mouth cancer as a non-smoker, so there is not too much need to worry about this. You can use Snus whenever you feel the craving for a cigarette - it has the full range of WTAs that an e-cigarette cannot provide*. It is spitless and not related to the old chewing tobacco - the micro pouch is placed between the upper lip and the gum, and use is invisible.

For those who need these extra WTAs, an e-cigarette plus Snus approach has been found highly effective.

* Recently, a small number of vendors have introduced e-liquids containing WTAs. These are not easy to find at present, but in theory will do the same job as Snus.


*Timescale*
There is no timescale for switching exclusively to an e-cigarette. Some manage it on Day 1, some take a year to finally quit the coffin nails. Does it matter? Probably not.

To accelerate the process, you'll need to follow the tips above carefully - but it should not be a cause for worry, as there is no need. As long as your smoking is gradually reducing, things are moving along in the right direction.

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 3


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## Andre (14/1/14)

_*Part 2*
*Assorted tips*


Until you are well off cigarettes and absolutely free of them, keep a pack in the house. It is the equivalent of a parachute - because you know it's there, you don't have a subconscious worry. You may never smoke one but that is not the point. 
If you do light one up, try to smoke less than half of it before you stub it out. Then rinse your mouth out and remind yourself how disgusting inhaling a bonfire is. Pick up your e-cig with the strongest, favorite flavor of the month [see Flavors below] and take some full drags on that - much better isn't it?
If you have any Snus, keep it in the fridge, it is a perishable product. If you have children then you must consider some form of securing the product, to protect a child who may investigate the fridge contents.
Get some liquid of half your usual strength (or less) for use late at night. Using full-strength liquid late in the evening can make it difficult to sleep, for some. The use of some low-strength liquid for mindlessly puffing on while watching a film on TV last thing before bed is a good move.
*Flavors*
No two people in the same room are likely to prefer the same flavor, and any one person's taste changes both in terms of where they are at in the transition process, and from time to time in any case. 

When you start with an e-cig, you want a tobacco flavor and nothing else will do. Then you want a tobacco-plus flavor (like RY4, or with menthol or mint). Then you like desserts or coffee or fruits or whatever. This is a function of your sense of taste and smell returning as well as various other factors. 

Later, you will find that what you really liked three months ago doesn't cut it now, and you prefer something else. Finally, you will happily use unflavored or minimum-flavored liquid some of the time as it doesn't matter and it's easier on the lungs when you think of the long term (the flavors are the only real unknown in the equation).

Many find that rotating flavors will help each flavor to retain its original attraction. There are all sorts of events that can be expected, such as all flavors losing their ability to be sensed for a period of time. We don't know why this is but perhaps it is related to the senses of smell and taste rebuilding after years of abuse. This period passes soon enough. Rotation in use of heads (the end fittings such as cartos and clearos) and flavors is seen as a good idea: have several spares, and use more than one type during the day or evening.

*Reducing the amount of nicotine consumed*
It is probably a good idea to reduce the amount of nicotine consumed to the minimum acceptable level. That is, the lowest amount that satisfies, and removes symptoms such as inability to concentrate, irritability, memory issues, cognitive function issues. There is no point in consuming more than necessary, and there may be health implications for some individuals but perhaps not all. It has been suggested that a genetic predisposition to vascular disease might be a sign that moderation is in order (a family history of early occurrence of stroke, aneurysm etc.). It may be a useful topic to discuss with your doctor.

Most people have some sort of symptoms of nicotine over-consumption, such as: headache, dizziness, racing heartbeat, insomnia, tingling in the extremities. Some however are immune to these symptoms and can consume very large amounts with no sign of discomfort at all. For this group especially, it is worth considering if there might be health implications for long-term high-volume consumption.

There are some indications that abuse of NRTs may lead to cardiac issues. That is, long-term over-consumption of quit-smoking medications with nicotine such as skin patches and gum may cause cardiac dysrhythmia in some cases. This means a heart rhythm that is irregular and may be irreversible or lead to further complications. Atrial fibrillation is one of the conditions in this group, and it is a serious condition.

So we know that unlimited consumption may be harmful at least for some individuals; and that some people show no signs of over-consumption even with what appears to be a fairly high dose (some can vape 60mg liquid, or spill 36mg liquid on their skin, with no symptoms of overdose whatsoever). Therefore we should see if it might be possible to (a) determine the lowest current acceptable nicotine level; and (b) gradually reduce the level over time, especially after the first 'difficult' month or two, to a final minimum acceptable level.

*So, to sum up:*

The starting nicotine level is different for all individuals and does not relate to the amount smoked.
Beginners commonly do not get the full nicotine supply expected, due to technique or equipment issues.
The minimum level required by any individual will vary at times. It will probably reduce over time, though for some it may remain relatively high.
Most people show signs of nicotine OD, when overdoing it - but some do not.
It is possible that long term over-consumption will be harmful for at least some individuals.
It is probably good for long-term health to see if the nicotine level can be reduced to an acceptable minimum.
It is possible that a stronger nicotine level may be needed at a certain time of the day. For some this might be first thing in the morning; for others it might be after a certain meal such as lunch or dinner.
It is probable that a weaker nicotine level can be used late in the evening.
There is no one set of 'rules' that will apply to everyone. The key is experimentation, and advice from a mentor if it can be obtained.
_

Reactions: Like 3 | Winner 3


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## ShaneW (14/1/14)

Thanks for the welcomes and for giving me hope... Can't wait to toss the 'stinkies'

@Matthee Thanks for that info... really helps. At least I know I'm not alone. 

Got some 24mg RY4 and vanilla off bidorbuy (vapesa) arrived 2day and mixed it with some 6mg 'raving *****' that my sister got in california and enjoying the mix. Can't wait to start some diy blends.

Just ordered a ce4 for my father who is also keen to give this a bash.

Reactions: Like 1


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## ShaneW (14/1/14)

Every night I have to remember to charge my cellphone and my laptop and now my cigarette. Lol

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Nooby (14/1/14)

Welcome to the home of SA vaping! You will need no other forum  we are all here to help. Feel free to ask away and to participate.. Enjoy your stay, vape on!

Reactions: Like 1


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## RevnLucky7 (15/1/14)

Welcome mate.
Stick with it. It's an easy way of beating cigarettes. I started out with 24mg. I'm now mainly on 6mg strength and have found that I can get by 0mg as of late by just tricking my mind into thinking I'm still vaping nicotine.

One tip I can give you, it's probably already mentioned, but vape away. Don't just vape as often as you smoked. Vape all the time. Attach the thing to your mouth if you have to and suck on it till your face goes blue. Eventually you'll reach a point where you feel like gagging. That's a good place to be. Do that when YOU HAVE TO HAVE A SMOKE. Worked great for me.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Silver (15/1/14)

Welcome @ShaneW. Enjoy the forum. It's a great place with great people and knowledge!

As for kicking cigarettes completely, go for it. Many have done it and the vaping gear these days is clearly good enough to keep many off the stinkies. Initially it did take me a little bit of "willpower" to resist the odd craving for a real cigarette and even today - about 80 days in - I still have the odd craving now and then - maybe once every few days. 

As for the evenings, I also found that some evenings I have a slight irritable sensation. In fact, the last three or four nights, I haven't been able to fall asleep easily. I had it a while back and it did pass. Seems like I have it again. But I'm sure it will pass as well.

Good luck and wishing you all the best for your vaping

Reactions: Like 1


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