# Is vaping bad for you?



## Hooked (2/1/19)

*Vaping vs. smoking
*
Every discussion of the health risks of vaping should begin with a comparison to cigarette smoking. This is important for two reasons. First, vapes are designed to be reduced-harm alternatives to smoking cigarettes. Second, it’s important to weigh vaping versus smoking because the vast majority of vapers are smokers or ex-smokers.

When it comes to science though, not enough studies employ a direct comparison between vaping and smoking. That’s a missed opportunity. It’s understood that smoking is bad for you with many health risks, but is vaping bad for you? How can does vaping affect your health? Separate from the absolute safety of vaping, it’s imperative to know if vaping is at much safer than smoking.

Public Health England has been unequivocal in its findings: vaping is at least 95 percent safer than smoking. They understand that studying the dangers of vaping alone is only half of the subject, since vaping exists primarily as an alternative to smoking. Since there aren’t many studies that employ a direct comparison, the available information on vaping must be measured against the available information on cigarette smoking, rather than in isolation.

*Is vaping bad for your lungs?
*
Smoking cigarettes causes well-known harm to the lungs. Long-term inhalation of burning tobacco can lead to lung and esophageal cancer, and to a variety of deadly lung conditions like emphysema, chronic bronchitis, and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD). But what about vaping?

Cigarette smoke attacks the lungs in several ways. It contains thousands of chemicals, more than 70 of which are known carcinogens. It also contains particulate matter — fine bits of burned tobacco and paper — that is deposited deep in the lungs, where they can be buried in the tissue. Vaping doesn’t produce known carcinogens in quantities large enough to be considered real risks, and it doesn’t contain solid particles like smoke.

In fact, the things that are most dangerous in burning tobacco are largely absent from vaping. Since there is no combustion in vaping, there is no tar or carbon monoxide — two other major dangers of smoking. Vaping uses heat from a coil to turn e-liquid into an inhalable aerosol. It looks like smoke, but it isn’t. That said, vaping is not without some potential risks to lung health.

There is some concern over the ingredients in e-liquid: propylene glycol, vegetable glycerin, and flavorings. There is no serious human research on the effects of inhaling PG or VG daily for an extended period of time, although extensive animal studies of PG inhalation haven’t raised any red flags. PG has been found to cause minor irritation of the airways, but this isn’t concerning in itself.

*Are flavors bad for your lungs?
*
E-liquid flavorings are a possible source of danger that hasn’t been well-studied. Most flavorings are a mixture of many chemical compounds, and it’s likely that some are worse for lung health than others. Until recently, these flavorings were used strictly in products that were eaten, not inhaled. So toxicology studies have focused on showing that the flavorings are safe for consumption. This is an area where the science on vaping needs to catch up.

A recurring headline has been about diketones like diacetyl being found in some e-liquid. This group of flavoring chemicals is believed to be responsible for a deadly disease called popcorn lung when it is inhaled in large quantities (like in the case of workers in popcorn manufacturing facilities). Diketones are not present in all e-liquid, but a 2014 study by Dr. Konstantinos Farsalinos concluded that diacetyl and acetyl propionyl are “avoidable risks.” Following that, many manufacturers reformulated their products and eliminated them. Others began publishing testing showing the levels of the diketones in their products.

Diketones are present in cigarettes too, at 100-750 times the level of any e-liquid. Yet, even though smoking ravages the lungs in other ways, it isn’t associated with popcorn lung. Considering the much larger quantities of diketones in cigarette smoke, the comparatively small amounts in vapes is not likely to be a threat. That’s not to say diketones are safe for inhalation, but the safer choice between vaping and smoking should be clear, considering the amounts present.

*Is vaping bad for your oral health?
*
Smoking causes and contributes to a variety of oral health problems. Of course, it’s well-known that smokers are at high risk for mouth, throat and esophageal cancers. But cigarettes can also cause dental and periodontal disease, including gingival (gum) disorders. And cigarette smoke can alter the bacteria in the mouth (microbiome), making existing periodontal problems worse.

There isn’t much information available about medical side effects of vaping on oral health. A recent literature review in the Journal of Oral Pathology & Medicine summarized the state of the science, noting the “paucity of evidence.” However, the authors summarized a few interesting findings.

The authors describe a small study that suggests vapers may have increased prevalence of nicotine stomatitis (which is, oddly, not caused by nicotine), a condition caused by heat that creates lesions in the mouth. This is a minor condition that typically resolves itself when the source of heat (typically a pipe) is eliminated.

A small pilot study examined the oral microbiome of 10 vapers, 10 smokers, and 10 non-vapers/smokers. The authors found that the bacterial profile of vapers was similar to the non-vaping/smoking control group, but that the smoking group’s oral bacteria profile was very different. The researchers concluded that vapor doesn’t alter the microbiome. Again, the study was very small, so broad conclusions can’t be made. The review covers some other small studies, but questions their relevance based on their small size and lack of proper controls.

Finally, there is the issue of *exploding vapes* causing damage to the mouths of vapers. While it’s true that a very small number of vapers have had catastrophic accidents that caused severe facial and oral lacerations and broken teeth, this is more a matter of battery safety than anything else. Using modern regulated devices and quality batteries, there is virtually no chance that an atomizer will be launched from a mod into the user’s teeth.

*Can vaping cause cancer?
*
Cancers form when toxins damage or mutate a cell’s DNA and cause it to grow out of control. A tumor can remain local, or the cancer can spread, and even move from one organ to another. Most people are familiar with cigarette smoking as a cause of lung cancer. Lung cancer kills more Americans than any other kind of cancer, and most (but not all) lung cancer victims are smokers.

Smoking can cause many other kinds of cancer too, because cancers can form not just in areas that have contact with the smoke, but also from smoke byproducts in the bloodstream and organs. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), smoking can cause cancer almost anywhere in the body.

Carcinogens have been found in vapes, but at levels that suggest the cancer risk is very low. According to a 2017 study in the journal Tobacco Control, the cancer risk of vaping is on a par with the risk of using pharmaceutical products like nicotine patches — less than one percent the cancer risk of smoking. The only byproducts of vaping that posed a real risk were carbonyls produced by overheating the vape device (as explained in the formaldehyde section of this article).

Other researchers have come to similar conclusions. A 2016 study published in the journal Mutation Research tested both e-cig vapor and cigarette smoke for their ability to cause cell mutations in bacteria. The smoke caused mutations, and was also toxic to the bacteria, while the vapor was not mutagenic or toxic.

Nicotine itself — either in cigarettes or vapes, or other nicotine products — has not been shown to cause cancer. Long-term studies of nicotine replacement therapy (NRT) and Swedish snus users show no provable link between nicotine and cancer.

The 2016 Royal College of Physicians report on e-cigarettes says that “robust evidence on the safety of long-term nicotine use in humans from the 5-year Lung Health Study, in which participants were actively encouraged to use NRT for several months and many continued to consume NRT for a much longer period, demonstrates no association between sustained NRT use and the occurrence of cancer (lung, gastrointestinal or any cancer) or cardiovascular disease.”

*Is there formaldehyde in vapes?
*
What is formaldehyde? The EPA states that “formaldehyde is a colorless, flammable gas at room temperature and has a strong odor. Exposure to formaldehyde may cause adverse health effects.”

Portland State University researchers reported in 2015 that vapor products produced high levels of formaldehyde — even more than cigarettes. What they didn’t explain was that their experiments used unrealistically high voltages and smoking machines to produce vapor that would have been unbearable for anyone to inhale.

In fact, you can do a similar experiment by putting bread in a toaster and leaving it until the toaster emits smoke and the bread turns black with carbon. Is the result carcinogenic? Yes it is, but since no one could possibly eat it, the danger is moot. Is black toast what you think of when you think of toast? Likewise, the toxic aldehydes produced by a burning wick and atomizer are no real danger because they’re impossible to repeatedly inhale.

In a 2017 study, cardiologist Konstantinos Farsalinos replicated the Portland State experiment and showed that the vapor produced by deliberately overheating was unpalatable to human users. “The high levels of formaldehyde emissions that were reported in a previous study were caused by unrealistic use conditions that create the unpleasant taste of dry puffs to e-cigarette users and are thus avoided,” wrote the author.

In 2018, Farsalinos and Gene Gillman produced a systematic review that analyzed the evidence from 32 studies on the carbonyl compounds like formaldehyde, acetaldehyde, and acrolein that have been found in vapor. The authors found that nearly all of the high levels of carbonyls like formaldehyde produced during the studies were created by poor methodology leading to “dry puff conditions.” They proposed standards for future research that defined proper parameters for vaping experiments, including a standardized puffing regime, using current-generation atomizers and realistic power settings, and proper PG/VG ratios for the equipment tested.

The authors also explained that we inhale 1 mg of formaldehyde every day, just in our own homes. The average vaper, using 5 mg of e-liquid a day in a modern atomizer, only increases their formaldehyde intake by 0.083 mg. That’s less than a 10 percent increase above the normal exposure level, which is probably not significant.

*The bottom line*
Cigarettes wreak havoc on the body, damaging the smoker practically from head to toe. The harms have been proven beyond doubt. But there is no evidence pointing to similar health effects from vaping — or any health problems, for that matter — unless you count possible nicotine dependence. But nicotine isn’t directly responsible for any of the terrible results of smoking. Vaping remains a far better choice when compared to smoking.

*https://vaping360.com/health/vaping-vs-smoking-is-vaping-bad-for-you*

Reactions: Like 7 | Thanks 1 | Informative 2


----------



## zadiac (3/1/19)

Yes. Vaping is very bad for you. In fact, it's so bad, that it's made people quit the wonderful harmless cigarettes and started this dreadful vaping thing. IT's disgusting. People no long go and visit their doctor friends in hospitals because of this awful vaping thing. It's really very bad.

Reactions: Funny 5


----------



## Jean claude Vaaldamme (3/1/19)

Its like compàring sugar vs sweetners. Neither is good for you, so why compare one bad thing agains another? Yes the one is better but thats not saying is healthy.
Some of these arguments are like the smokers arguments when they talk wildly aboutb popcorn lungs, or they start giving you stories about their grandfather that smoked till he was 101. You only fooling yourself.
First fact, you not vaping vapour, its smoke, if you heat oil in a pan you get smoke, not vapour. Go pulse your coils and see how hot they get, much hotter than any stove. So dont fool yourself. Is this smoke less harmfull than cigarette smoke, Im sure it is.
Im no scientist, but I have common sense. So lets start with PG. I dont blow the vape out my nose, but dont know why, but when I exhale some smoke/vapour comes through my nose. For two weeks I could almost not touch my nose, all cracked up inside, even blood coming out when I blow my nose. And I played a bit of rugby in my days even after school and never had a nose bleed in my life. So I did some research and it seems that the culprit is pg. Common sense tells me that pg is also the one responsible for the vapours tung and the dry mouth, getting thirsty part of vaping. Throat hit? Irritated throat?
So what does pg do to your lungs? I mean your lungs are delicate and moist. Your nose is thicker drier skin as are your tung?

Yes I love vaping as a way to help me stop smoking completely. But some of these Vape arguments reminds me of the foolish arguments of the tobacco industry or US gun owners assosiations. Who you trying to fool? Call a spade a spade. Be open then you wont be hated. Dont compare Hitler with the devil, show Hitlers good and bad, and then compare it to what is good.

Reactions: Agree 2 | Disagree 3


----------



## Silver (3/1/19)

Thanks for sharing this @Hooked

Good summary in one article

It seems that the research done to date suggests vaping is considerably less harmful than smoking. More research needs to be done though, for example on the longer term effects and the effects of inhaling the flavours as mentiioned.

Nevertheless, for those who smoke and cannot stop or find it very difficult, it would be a good thing to give vaping a try.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 3


----------



## Silver (3/1/19)

Jean claude Vaaldamme said:


> Is this smoke less harmfull than cigarette smoke, Im sure it is.



@Jean claude Vaaldamme , there have been several studies done comparing the ingredients of smoke from a cigarette and vapour from a vaping device. They are not the same. The vapour contains an order of magnitude less toxins and carcinogens, compared to whats in the cigarette smoke.

I dont think anyone can say vaping is healthy but i do believe it is far less harmful than smoking. How much less harmful is up for debate. Public Healthcare England says its 95% safer. I dont know the long term impacts but i can say with confidence that i feel better vaping than i did when i smoked.

When I initially stopped smoking with vaping, my plan was to slowly stop the vaping and neither smoke or vape. Lets just say I got caught up in the hobbyist side of vaping and I have thoroughly enjoyed it. Does that mean I am bad and have harmed my long term health the same as if i had continued smoking? I dont know, time will tell - but I dont think so. Will I ever stop vaping? Maybe. But no plans right now. First step is to cut down on the nicotine content.

Reactions: Like 4 | Can relate 1


----------



## Andre (3/1/19)

Silver said:


> @Jean claude Vaaldamme , there have been several studies done comparing the ingredients of smoke from a cigarette and vapour from a vaping device. They are not the same. The vapour contains an order of magnitude less toxins and carcinogens, compared to whats in the cigarette smoke.
> 
> I dont think anyone can say vaping is healthy but i do believe it is far less harmful than smoking. How much less harmful is up for debate. Public Healthcare England says its 95% safer. I dont know the long term impacts but i can say with confidence that i feel better vaping than i did when i smoked.
> 
> When I initially stopped smoking with vaping, my plan was to slowly stop the vaping and neither smoke or vape. Lets just say I got caught up in the hobbyist side of vaping and I have thoroughly enjoyed it. Does that mean I am bad and have harmed my long term health the same as if i had continued smoking? I dont know, time will tell - but I dont think so. Will I ever stop vaping? Maybe. But no plans right now. First step is to cut down on the nicotine content.


Agreed, other than about the first step. Imho it should be to wean yourself off direct to lung vaping, which requires higher power, and only do low power higher resistance vaping. Most of the danger lies in high heat. Not in nicotine. Lowering nicotine could be a next step.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 3 | Thanks 1


----------



## Silver (3/1/19)

Andre said:


> Agreed, other than about the first step. Imho it should be to wean yourself off direct to lung vaping, which requires higher power, and only do low power higher resistance vaping. Most of the danger lies in high heat. Not in nicotine. Lowering nicotine could be a next step.



Thanks @Andre 
That shouldnt be too difficult for me 
Most of my DL vaping in any case is on a 1.2 ohm coil at 12-15 Watts.

Reactions: Like 2 | Thanks 1


----------



## Andre (3/1/19)

Silver said:


> Thanks @Andre
> That shouldnt be too difficult for me
> Most of my DL vaping in any case is on a 1.2 ohm coil at 12-15 Watts.


Wow, I did not think it was possible to do DL at that low power. Carry on!

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Jean claude Vaaldamme (3/1/19)

Andre said:


> Agreed, other than about the first step. Imho it should be to wean yourself off direct to lung vaping, which requires higher power, and only do low power higher resistance vaping. Most of the danger lies in high heat. Not in nicotine. Lowering nicotine could be a next step.


Agreed, I also think the higher the heat the more dangers, but here is my theory with my limited knowledge of electricity. If you go like in low watts, say 20w for mtl, dont you suck then much longer and then press the power button for longer amd then the coil gets hotter and hotter. If so maybe the future of vaping is going to be all devices going to be temp controlled to a government regulated max temp


----------



## Silver (3/1/19)

Andre said:


> Wow, I did not think it was possible to do DL at that low power. Carry on!



Indeed
Thats on the Lemo1 and Subtank Mini. 
The other regular DL devices are the Dvarw and Skyline - 0.7 ohm coils at about 18-23 Watts. Lowish to medium power.

Thing is @Andre - the heat generated I think also has to do with the type of coils used and how thin the wire is. And how restricted the airflow is.nSo i may be generating similar heat with 15W on a 28g coil than someone is on say a 24g coil at 50Watts in a bigger airier setup. I probably need to get a DNA mod and hook it up to the computer to see what is going on temperature wise. Where is @Ezekiel?


----------



## Silver (3/1/19)

Jean claude Vaaldamme said:


> Agreed, I also think the higher the heat the more dangers, but here is my theory with my limited knowledge of electricity. If you go like in low watts, say 20w for mtl, dont you suck then much longer and then press the power button for longer amd then the coil gets hotter and hotter. If so maybe the future of vaping is going to be all devices going to be temp controlled to a government regulated max temp



The temperature is important @Jean claude Vaaldamme . You are right, its the duration of firing but also the wire thickness and airflow. Wicking also plays a role because if the wicks go dry the temp there goes up.

I recall a study done showing that the toxins increase a lot as the temperature increases. Cant remember where it was, maybe it was a video by the chaps from Evolv who make the DNA chip

I also recall that Dr Farsalinos was going to do a detailed temperature study to assess this further
And i thought temperature controlled vaping was going to be the key here to keep things safe

But i didnt see anything further come of those studies, unless i missed it.
Maybe @RichJB or @Andre spotted something further on that?

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## zadiac (3/1/19)

Jean claude Vaaldamme said:


> Its like compàring sugar vs sweetners. Neither is good for you, so why compare one bad thing agains another? Yes the one is better but thats not saying is healthy.
> Some of these arguments are like the smokers arguments when they talk wildly aboutb popcorn lungs, or they start giving you stories about their grandfather that smoked till he was 101. You only fooling yourself.
> *First fact, you not vaping vapour, its smoke, if you heat oil in a pan you get smoke, not vapour. Go pulse your coils and see how hot they get, much hotter than any stove. So dont fool yourself.* Is this smoke less harmfull than cigarette smoke, Im sure it is.
> Im no scientist, but I have common sense. So lets start with PG. I dont blow the vape out my nose, but dont know why, but when I exhale some smoke/vapour comes through my nose. For two weeks I could almost not touch my nose, all cracked up inside, even blood coming out when I blow my nose. And I played a bit of rugby in my days even after school and never had a nose bleed in my life. So I did some research and it seems that the culprit is pg. Common sense tells me that pg is also the one responsible for the vapours tung and the dry mouth, getting thirsty part of vaping. Throat hit? Irritated throat?
> ...



One small mistake there bud. Do your research. It's NOT smoke, it's vapour. E-liquid is not oil. It's a plant alkaloid which is water soluble. Oil is not water soluble. When e-liquid is heated, it produces vapour, not smoke.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 4


----------



## RichJB (3/1/19)

Everybody, including Farsalinos and Maciej Goniewicz, has warned of high temps. The bad stuff increases exponentially as temps rise. In his flavour testing, Goniewicz warned that flavours which show little or no harmful components at low temps suddenly spike and show high volumes of nasties as the temps escalate. And we're not talking dry hit conditions either. Goniewicz is on our side, he doesn't tamper with testing and induce unvapeable conditions to deliberately produce a desired result.

Another thing we should consider: almost all vape testing is done on cigalikes. Is the vapour from these hotter, cooler, the same as our DL dual coil devices? This also affects juice consumption. In the Dr Siegel study in which he concludes that there is hundreds of times more diacetyl in cigarettes than vapour, he used a daily average baseline of 1ml of juice per day for the vaping figure. That might be realistic for someone who uses a cigalike. It certainly doesn't represent the majority of vapers who use open systems, where daily consumption would probably range anywhere from 8ml to 50ml. 

Scientists really need to get with the programme and understand that many, many vapers don't use cigalikes. We need figures on the gear that we typically use. Unfortunately, vape research is only funded by companies that produce cigalikes which, typically, are tobacco companies. Smok, Sigelei, Vandy, Wotofo et al don't spend on vaping research. And then companies which use donor funds to research independently use the vaping devices which they see in ads. Which, again, are cigalikes. The non-vaping perception of "electronic cigarettes" remains a slim, pen-shaped device with a cartomiser and an LED tip that glows. Even Farsalinos, Goniewicz, Siegel and the researchers who have closer ties with the vaping industry use cigalikes for testing. So there is a significant knowledge gap around high-wattage DL vaping. 

I'm still unclear on what temp I vape at. I get that for a reference coil, increasing wattage drives temp upwards. I vape at anywhere between 25W and 40W depending on coil - but that doesn't necessarily mean I'm vaping at low temps. I'm loath to vape temp control because I mostly use N80 to build my coils. I'd have to switch to SS, with the low resistance factors that this entails.

Reactions: Like 2 | Informative 1


----------



## Silver (3/1/19)

RichJB said:


> Everybody, including Farsalinos and Maciej Goniewicz, has warned of high temps. The bad stuff increases exponentially as temps rise. In his flavour testing, Goniewicz warned that flavours which show little or no harmful components at low temps suddenly spike and show high volumes of nasties as the temps escalate. And we're not talking dry hit conditions either. Goniewicz is on our side, he doesn't tamper with testing and induce unvapeable conditions to deliberately produce a desired result.
> 
> Another thing we should consider: almost all vape testing is done on cigalikes. Is the vapour from these hotter, cooler, the same as our DL dual coil devices? This also affects juice consumption. In the Dr Siegel study in which he concludes that there is hundreds of times more diacetyl in cigarettes than vapour, he used a daily average baseline of 1ml of juice per day for the vaping figure. That might be realistic for someone who uses a cigalike. It certainly doesn't represent the majority of vapers who use open systems, where daily consumption would probably range anywhere from 8ml to 50ml.
> 
> ...



Thanks for that @RichJB 
Very interesting
I hear you on the issue of researchers using cigalikes for their comparisons

Interestingly though, when i saw Dr Farsalinos at that Vape Conference here in Sandton (organised by VPA) he wasnt using a cigalike. It looked lik he was using a more modern device.

Maybe we need to do some research on the temps we vape at - shouldnt be too difficult with the right mod to replicate the type of vape we do and see what the temp is on the computer program? Unless i am missing something

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Hooked (3/1/19)

Jean claude Vaaldamme said:


> Its like compàring sugar vs sweetners. Neither is good for you, so why compare one bad thing agains another? Yes the one is better but thats not saying is healthy.
> 
> I don't think I've ever heard/read anyone saying that vaping is healthy, but *healthier* - yes.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Hooked (4/1/19)

Jean claude Vaaldamme said:


> First fact, you not vaping vapour, its smoke, if you heat oil in a pan you get smoke, not vapour. Go pulse your coils and see how hot they get, much hotter than any stove.





Silver said:


> @Jean claude Vaaldamme , there have been several studies done comparing the ingredients of smoke from a cigarette and vapour from a vaping device. They are not the same. The vapour contains an order of magnitude less toxins and carcinogens, compared to whats in the cigarette smoke.





zadiac said:


> One small mistake there bud. Do your research. It's NOT smoke, it's vapour. E-liquid is not oil. It's a plant alkaloid which is water soluble. Oil is not water soluble. When e-liquid is heated, it produces vapour, not smoke.




I've just read an article about the difference between smoke and vapour and I summarised it here https://www.ecigssa.co.za/vapour-vs-smoke.t56261/

@Jean claude Vaaldamme @Silver @zadiac

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Jakes147 (4/4/19)

Jean claude Vaaldamme said:


> Its like compàring sugar vs sweetners. Neither is good for you, so why compare one bad thing agains another? Yes the one is better but thats not saying is healthy.
> Some of these arguments are like the smokers arguments when they talk wildly aboutb popcorn lungs, or they start giving you stories about their grandfather that smoked till he was 101. You only fooling yourself.
> First fact, you not vaping vapour, its smoke, if you heat oil in a pan you get smoke, not vapour. Go pulse your coils and see how hot they get, much hotter than any stove. So dont fool yourself. Is this smoke less harmfull than cigarette smoke, Im sure it is.
> Im no scientist, but I have common sense. So lets start with PG. I dont blow the vape out my nose, but dont know why, but when I exhale some smoke/vapour comes through my nose. For two weeks I could almost not touch my nose, all cracked up inside, even blood coming out when I blow my nose. And I played a bit of rugby in my days even after school and never had a nose bleed in my life. So I did some research and it seems that the culprit is pg. Common sense tells me that pg is also the one responsible for the vapours tung and the dry mouth, getting thirsty part of vaping. Throat hit? Irritated throat?
> ...



I always feel like punching myself in the face after reading one of your posts.

Reactions: Agree 3 | Funny 3


----------



## JurgensSt (4/4/19)

VAPING IS BAD!!!

For my wallet

Reactions: Agree 1 | Funny 3 | Can relate 1


----------



## StompieZA (4/4/19)

One good example i have and seen first hand.

My wife was on diagnosed with chronic asthma having to inhale Schedule 4 Foxair powder every morning and evening while she was still smoking. She also carried a inhaler with her at all times. At times it was so bad that her chest would completely close down for no reason at all and could not breath unless she used her inhaler.

She stopped smoking after having smoked for close to 13 years after i convinced her to start vaping.

Results you ask? She has been vaping close to 2 years now, she is completely off her chronic inhalers, chest doesnt close up at all and no shortness of breath. She is healthy and recently did a health check at the dr and they could not find any issues with her....

So is vaping bad for you? you be the judge.

Reactions: Like 2 | Winner 9


----------



## Beserker786 (4/4/19)

I believe that everything has some sort of issue, like too much salt is bad for you, too much sugar is bad for you, too much meat and the list can go on and on, though, for what vaping is worth, the "bad" part about vaping seem to be in the realm of negligible for our lifespans, and as such a moot point to consider vaping at extreme conditions (super high Nic content, high concentration exposure to cells on a test plate etc).

Saying Vaping is bad, is like saying breathing the air is bad, because of the carbon monoxide in the air from passing cars. may as well live in a bubble.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 4


----------



## zadiac (4/4/19)

Yes, vaping is bad for you. 5% bad. Smoking is 100% bad. Make a choice.

Reactions: Agree 5


----------



## Jean claude Vaaldamme (4/4/19)

Jumping off your roof is much better than jumping of the Empire state Building.
@Jakes147

Reactions: Like 1 | Optimistic 2 | Disagree 1


----------



## lesvaches (4/4/19)

Jean claude Vaaldamme said:


> Jumping off your roof is much better than jumping of the Empire state Building.
> @Jakes147


jumping of a roof wont kill you but could seriously mess you up. Empire state Building is a one way ticket.

Reactions: Agree 4


----------



## Dela Rey Steyn (4/4/19)

lesvaches said:


> jumping of a roof wont kill you but could seriously mess you up. Empire state Building is a one way ticket.


Whats the difference between falling 10m and falling 10 stories?

*Thud* "Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!"

"Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!" *Thud*

Reactions: Funny 6


----------



## lesvaches (4/4/19)

Dela Rey Steyn said:


> Whats the difference between falling 10m and falling 10 stories?
> 
> *Thud* "Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!"
> 
> "Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!" *Thud*


the difference is updating your FB status.

Reactions: Funny 3


----------



## cgs (4/4/19)

money. money. money.
Who pays for "studies"?

This vape health thing needs to be put to bed now. I chuckle - can't take it seriously.
People are getting hooked on meds that is being prescribed by your doctor under "regulation". Isn't that a real issue? One of MANY issues that are far worse that vaping.

You're taking money out of big tobacco's pockets and they don't like that.
They're trying to counter with confusion and redacted studies.

There is no health issue.
The fact that it _*is*_ *less* harmful than cigs should be enough.

Attached is a document I found, interesting read but quite long.
Screen shot of a small part of it here:






And here is what the lies are selling you. 




Just like Nestle killed babies in the 70s by punting their baby formula.
Just like villages in India are running out of water because of Coca Cola.
etc.

We're too busy for truth these days.

Reactions: Informative 3


----------



## Morix (4/4/19)

JurgensSt said:


> VAPING IS BAD!!!
> 
> For my wallet


True... Vaping is bad for may wallet... It makes me buy stuff i dont need... But want .... OOOOOO! LOOK! That mech is so shiny...MINE!

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1 | Funny 3


----------

