# Wire/Coil questions



## ddk1979 (24/11/19)

Just some questions for the experienced/expert vapers.

What is the effect of the following :

1. . Contact coils vs Spaced coils

2. . Non-fused Clapton vs FUSED Clapton

3. . 2.5mm ID vs 3mm ID coils

Thanks

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## Silver (24/11/19)

Great questions @ddk1979

I will try help you with some of them

1) Contact vs spaced
I typically do contact coils. I think with spaced coils, there is ever so slightly more surface area for the wick to make contact with the wire - as it goes inbetween the spaces. Hence in theory, slightly more vaporisation. But I typically do contact coils - my thinking is that they are hotter and lead to a crisper vape. On the few occasions I tried spaced coils I did get some spitting a few times. I do recall though that spaced coils gunk up less, so one could argue they are longer lasting. But am no expert in it.

2) not sure about the fused vs non-fused clapton. I thought a fused clapton means the inner core has two or more wires. So makes it a bit thicker, arguably more surface area for vaporisation on the outside then. Also the inner core having two or more wires reduces the overall resistance of the coil quite a bit. So depending on what coil resistance you like or need, you may need a fused. Maybe @Friep or someone else can give more input here.

3) 2.5mm ID vs 3mm ID.
ID in general is an interesting one. For the same resistance and amount of wire, if you had a smaller ID you would have more wraps. The coil would be longer. Less ID also means less cotton in there so depending on the power it may not be ideal and may lead to dry hits sooner.

From my experience I have found that a smaller ID leads to a hotter vape - arguably the temp at the centre all else equal should be slightly more. For me it also leads to a crisper vape.

Its also very atty dependent because some atties do better with slightly smaller IDs and some with bigger IDs. And some need slightly longer coils (ie more wraps)

I think the important thing is to get the right ID, wraps, coil type and matched to the atty - together with the power. If you are using a smaller device that needs less power, then slightly higher resistance wire with a smaller ID is better. But if you are in a bigger rig with more power (usually more airflow) then a bigger ID and thicker wire (lower resistance) and more power is suitable. It also needs more ID to carry more wick and juice.

So I think its about trial and error. In your question about 2.5 vs 3mm, I dont think there is a huge difference - best would be to test them out thoroughly and see which you prefer.

In my Reo/RM2 I have experimented with quite a few wire types and ID. I settled on a small 1.6mm ID with a parallel wrapped 29g (thin) Kanthal wire. Comes out at 0.45 ohms, so essentially two 0.9 ohm coils in parallel. Gives me a wonderful crisp vape, instant ramp and a great vape on my stronger tobaccoes. I have tried simple 28g wire with 2mm ID, even 27g and 26g and have gone up to 2.5mm ID - its just not the same crispness for me and I find the ramp up too long. Bear in mind the Reo is a mech so I can't just dial up the power for a faster ramp. Took me many coils and lots of trial and error to find what works best for me. The only drawback to my tiny ID coil is that I get only about 3 puffs before having to resquonk. But thats ok because its MTL and the juice is strong so three puffs is superb for me on that application.

In my Skyline I am using a 2.5mm ID. About 20 Watts of Power. In my lower powered Lemo1 (about 12-15 Watts) I use a simple 2mm ID coil.

Hope that helps

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## ddk1979 (24/11/19)

Silver said:


> Great questions @ddk1979
> 
> I will try help you with some of them
> 
> ...




Thanks for the detailed reply @Silver - much appreciated.

I tend to chain vape and have burnt my wick numerous times. My standard build is approx 2.5mm ID, 7-8 wraps with VV Superfine MTL wire at 20W (about 0.8ohm).
I put in new coils today but increased the ID's from 2.5mm to 3mm in the hope that more juice would get to the coil.

While rebuilding I noticed that my VV Superfine MTL wire is almost finished, so I started making a Black Friday list. 
I see that VV had Fused and non-fused superfine mtl wire (e.g. no.1 and no.3 below) and am interested to know how it would affect the vape. (I just noticed that no.1 has 2 cores while no.3 only has a single core.)





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## Room Fogger (24/11/19)

ddk1979 said:


> Thanks for the detailed reply @Silver - much appreciated.
> 
> I tend to chain vape and have burnt my wick numerous times. My standard build is approx 2.5mm ID, 7-8 wraps with VV Superfine MTL wire at 20W (about 0.8ohm).
> I put in new coils today but increased the ID's from 2.5mm to 3mm in the hope that more juice would get to the coil.
> ...


@ddk1979 , Clapton refers to a single wire claptoned or wrapped in another wire, usually a much thinner one, in this instance 30gauge claptoned in 38 gauge, and will give you a higher resistance (6,95 Ohm per feet of wire used) coil if your I’d and wraps are the same for both. A fused Clapton is a multicored wire again claptoned or wrapped in a thinner wire, in this instance 2 x 30 gauge claptoned in a 38 gauge. The resistance for exactly the same coil dimension and wraps will be lower (3.5 Ohm per feet of wire used) compared to the normal Clapton. 

The fused Clapton will give you more surface area and “pockets” in the coil which will accommodate more juice, and will therefore use a bit more power due to resistance, but flavour to boot. This is my novice explanation but one of the masters like @Friep or one or the others may be able to elaborate more and explain it better. I use both types and they both give great flavour imho, but in different atties. As @Silver said, you have to play to get the right combo to suit you personally.

As for the burning when chainvaping, I do a 2,5 superfine MTL Clapton at about 0.78 Ohms, and vape at 18 to 20 Watts, and I’ve never had a dry hit or a burned wick. My advice would be to wick a bit looser and make sure your tails are thinner out a bit to assist with wicking, and try and keep the cottons threads as straight as possible. Loosen up with a bit by stabbing it with a needle to take out some of the compression and try it like this.

Hope this helps a bit and good luck

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## Friep (24/11/19)

Wow amazing answers can't really add much @Room Fogger and @Silver but thanks for the mention.

As mentioned above fused claptons tends to provide a bit more surface area than normal claptons reason for this is that they have more cores so they are a little bit thicker and more wire is in contact with your wicking leading to more heat and better flavor. The idea behind claptons and fused claptons as I understand it is basically the thinner wire that you use to wrap around the thicker iner wire creates a heat sink. So the idea is that this creates a little bit more heat and stays hotter for longer. If that makes sense. When you look at claptons and fused claptons if you use a thicker ga iner wire lets say 24ga claptoned with 38ga and you use 2 x 28ga claptoned with 38ga the surface area of these two would be close to each other but the fused Clapton would be a bit better because of the thiner wire that's used for the cores it reduces the wire mass and therfore reduces the amount of power needed for them and also the rampup will reduce so providing a bit of a better vape.

Everything is subjective and everyone's taste differs and it's a great idea to play around with different tipes of whire until you find what works best for you personally. 

On the id I prefer 2.5mm id I feel that I am getting more flavor from the smaller id coils but with the drawback of having to rewick a bit more often. I mainly use rdas and haven't had an increase in dry hits from the smaller id think the problem there is with the wicking as @Room Fogger suggested.

Spaced and contact coils I can't give any insight there I like contact coils but mainly because they look better than the spaced ones I have tried to build lol

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## Friep (24/11/19)

If you ever want to treat yourself @ddk1979 pick up some hand crafted coils some mtl alien coils are readily available these days 32ga x 3 aliend with 38ga is great in mtl and also hearing great things about 4 x 34ga aliend with 38ga by @Crafted Coils mentioning them because this is an extremely unique mtl coil. Still want to give building something like that a go.

Not that there is anything wrong with fused claptons and claptons some builders even go as far as saying that anything after a fused Clapton is mainly for looks. But aliens are something interesting....

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## ddk1979 (25/11/19)

Thanks so much @Room Fogger and @Friep 

As far as wicks go, I've tried longer tails and shorter ones, combed tails and uncombed, as well as cutting off the top third/half of the bow-tie (per a video I've seen that @BigGuy made), but I've just not managed to get that "perfect" wick. 

I have noticed that the 3mm ID coils I put in yesterday "*appears*" to have reduced the burning wick problem (thus far).

I've tried nano aliens (32/40) by @smilelykumeenit , but not those by @Crafted Coils.
The cost of buying 6 of these specialised coils at a time (3 x R200 = R600) is prohibitive for me since I am on a very limited budget.
For that amount, I can buy 6 spools of VV Superfine wire so the choice for me is obvious but, unfortunately there is always the downside.

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