# Little Bif Of Honesty



## Gizmo (6/12/13)

Hi guys

I want to take this opportunity to thank all you guys for supporting and growing with this forum. It's with this in mind that I feel compelled to reveal that Stroodlepuff and I are the owners of Vape King. We should have been honest about this from the start however, we were silly.

Reason we did not mention this when we started the forum is that we did not want people to think we created the forum simply to market and punt Vape King. That was not our intention in the slightest, I felt there was a gap for a local community forum for vaper by vapers of which we wanted to give all the authorized local retailers a channel to market their products to local vapers. This forum was created for the sole purpose of creating the Vaping community in South Africa. 

We have wanted to come clean about this for a while however have not been able to work up the courage for fear of being judged and seen as dishonest and untrustworthy, We assure you that it was neither mine or stroodlepuffs aim to be dishonest - it was a decision which was not properly thought through and we apologize. We hope you guys can understand this. From now on VapeKing related questions and product updates will be going through us.

Reactions: Like 5 | Winner 1 | Thanks 1 | Informative 1


----------



## ET (6/12/13)

i r's mortally offended and it will take at least one chocolate to make me not upset again 

but in all seriousness now, i have no issues with any of this. you've done an awesome job on the website and all the continued improvements/etc. i haven't noticed either of you punting vapeking stuff, guess this just means no more reviews for you

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## Stroodlepuff (6/12/13)

haha well we sent a private message to Derick and Melinda before posting this and they said that they knew the whole time  So who knows maybe there will be more reviews in the future  

What chocolate is your favourite and can you collect - not sure if posting a chocolate is a good idea  lol 

Will this image of one suffice?

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 1


----------



## Melinda (6/12/13)

Well I think the review Giz did was very nice and professional so see no need to stop asking him to do reviews ...

Reactions: Like 1 | Thanks 1


----------



## Tom (6/12/13)

denizenx said:


> but in all seriousness now, i have no issues with any of this. you've done an awesome job on the website and all the continued improvements/etc. i haven't noticed either of you punting vapeking stuff, guess this just means no more reviews for you


 
being still a "noob vaper" here, btw when will I be upgraded...., but I can sign this. At least from what I could read in this time.


----------



## Derick (6/12/13)

It's all good  We kinda figured it out a few weeks ago

Well I can see the reviews being of benefit to both of us now, we must just carry the same products

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## devdev (6/12/13)

Yes, and if you are offering to change me from Noob Vaper to Grandmaster Puff I am sure I could be persuaded to look past this 

Honestly, I am just a vape consumer, and I don't see a problem. If I was a trader competing for the same market share then yes I would say the situation *had the potential* to possibly be a conflict of interest - if you had been forcing Vape King down everyone's throats, but that being said it's not like there is a 900 pixel Vape King banner on every page or something. 

Thanks for being honest! I will support any person who puts their hard earned coin at risk by bringing specialty products into the country for my pleasure

Reactions: Like 3 | Thanks 1


----------



## TylerD (6/12/13)

I thought I recognised you stoodle! Thought it might have been your sister or so. Hehehe!
All good guys!
See, now I will support you even more now that I know!

Reactions: Like 2 | Thanks 1


----------



## Nooby (6/12/13)

Na no biggy guys... thanks for letting us know though

Reactions: Like 2 | Thanks 1


----------



## ET (6/12/13)

well since i am 700 km's away i'll make do with the image  nomnomnom

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## vaalboy (6/12/13)

It doesn't bother me one iota and rather commend you for creating a great board.

Thanks for the honesty though.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Riaz (6/12/13)

i dont have an issue with anything of this, and i dont see it making any difference to any of us or this forum.

thanks for coming clean tho.

vape on!!!

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Andre (6/12/13)

Well, I for one think it was grossly dishonest, totally unethical and borders on corruption if not that. Remember in the Shoutbox when VapeKing came to the rescue of Stroodlepuff with a battery - and she gets to keep it! I am totally disgusted.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Informative 1


----------



## Gizmo (6/12/13)

@Matthee. Like I said we truely sorry if this has upset some people. The VapeKing account will not be used here to post in the future.


----------



## Space_Cowboy (6/12/13)

Respect for plucking up the courage to come clean  And also for wanting to start something for "the greater good" rather than a "marketing outlet", no disrespect in any way intended.

I don't have any issues with this either. Not that it makes much difference but imo I think you guys have contributed more to the forum as Stroodlepuff and Gizmo than doing marketing for Vape King anyway, besides the fact that you guys started the forum in the first place so even if you did punt Vape King all the time I think it's your right to do so.

A wise man once said: "Vape ON!"

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


----------



## Gizmo (6/12/13)

I refuse to market vapeking excessively on this forum as thats where i feel its unethical. Hence why I have not placed banners or in your face pop-ups. We also hardly posted a lot as vapeking. I have tried to make sure that this is a forum for vapers by vapers not a cheap way to market.

I will also never allow google adword adverts on the forum like ECF does. I cant stand that. Any marketing you will see is from respectable etailers. I am also not charging for banner space at the moment and doubt i will anytime soon. This I am not evening doing for extra revenue.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## devdev (6/12/13)



Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2 | Creative 1


----------



## RIEFY (6/12/13)

Its all good guys. You gave us a forum which is awesome

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk HD

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Andre (6/12/13)

Gizmo said:


> @Matthee. Like I said we truely sorry if this has upset some people. The VapeKing account will not be used here to post in the future.


That might be so, but fact is you will be the owner and controller of a forum with customers, potential customers and competitors as members, which forum you began under false pretenses, in the process effectively terminating the SA subforum on ECF. What do you mean the VapeKing account will not be used to post here? You have just posted on your new eliquids. You just cannot be the owner (and administrator) of both the forum and of VapeKing. And have the audacity to invite other suppliers in. If I were a supplier I would certainly have taken legal steps against you. There is just no way that this can continue peacefully. At one or other time the patent conflict of interest will come to the boil. The only way to untie this knot will be to have either the one or the other, but not both. Or have a VapeKing forum for VapeKing customers as many international vendors have.


----------



## Gizmo (6/12/13)

Well @Matthee I don't know what to say. I think you being a tad unfair. But anyway.

Just want to also let you know that there is another massive traffic forum in the IT world called carbonite.co.za which is owned by a retailer prophecy.co.za and I am a registered retailer there. Never have they been sued nor have they been noncompetitive to other retailers on a forum which is owned by another retailer.

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## JB1987 (6/12/13)

Thanks for the honesty, was perhaps a tad upset at first but you did give as a fantastic forum which I thoroughly enjoy. Honesty is always the best route. I'll definitely pop in to the shop next week for some more iClear 16's and perhaps something a bit more expensive 

P.S. I thought you looked bloody familiar!

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Riaz (6/12/13)

@Matthee i think competition is good

this forum is not a skyblue forum just for skyblue customers.

and if they dont have an issue with gizmo and what he did, why should anyone else?

gizmo has, and still is probably the most dedicated person to this forum, and i believe he did it for the betterment of local vapers and not to market his company.

Reactions: Thanks 1


----------



## Gizmo (6/12/13)

Haha JB1987. It was not supposed to be a secret but anyway  

Looking forward to seeing you again. We still need to get this vape lounge working nicely so customers can come taste some juice, relax, chit-chat. That's our ultimate aim

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Zodiac (6/12/13)

Respect for letting us know, respect for the forum, and even more respect for bringing us Five pawns 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## RawRam_cpt (6/12/13)

Ag don't be silly. I judge everyone anyway. 

At least you didn't say that your names aren't really Gizmo and Stroodlepuff, THAT would be devastating.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 4

Reactions: Funny 3


----------



## Gizmo (6/12/13)

LOL


----------



## devdev (6/12/13)

So about my name change to Grandmaster Puff...


----------



## Stroodlepuff (6/12/13)

we will change it for you shortly Dev

Reactions: Winner 1


----------



## Gizmo (6/12/13)



Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Gizmo (6/12/13)

devdev said:


> So about my name change to Grandmaster Puff...


 
Your wish is my command.

Reactions: Winner 1


----------



## Gizmo (6/12/13)

Everyone can change their custom title now  Enjoy.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Stroodlepuff (6/12/13)

ooooh fun


----------



## Derick (6/12/13)

We have no problem with it, and we won't be suing anybody. 

For me this forum has been a completely positive experience, on a personal level as I could help people out with their questions and learn quite a few things myself - On a business level, because it gave me insights into the mind of the SA vaper and a chance to chat directly to my customers in an open forum.

At no point did I feel that any vendor here got preferential treatment or that any vendor's 'agenda' was forced upon any of us.

I also know of plenty of community forums where the forum owner is also a supplier and as long as they keep themselves to the same standards as other suppliers, there will not by any issues.

As to ECF... First time I found ECF the newest post was over 2 weeks old. True it was growing steadily, but if you look at the rate that this forum has grown compared to ECF's slow growth, then it has to mean that ECF was doing something wrong.

I think ECF is brilliant for the US, and for countries that do not have local forums, but in my experience people would rather go local if the option is available to them. Getting countless stickies and adds that in no way related to you or your country tends to make a forum user feel alienated and unimportant - at least that's what it did to me.

Personally I have had to deal with the admins of ECF and let's just say, dealing with Gizmo is a lot more pleasant, whether he is vapeking or not.

I still check in on ECF and will continue to post there - if it continues to grow, I would be very happy - two forums are always better than one, but over there I'm not allowed to post my products, tell people what I'm planning to order or in any way do any kind of advertising unless I'm willing to pay mucha USD for banners per click nogal.

The only place I'm allowed to post the above is in their suppliers forum - along with thousands of other suppliers - and no South-African is going to check that massive forum for a possible SA deal.

So posting here just makes a lot more sense to me and as long as vapeking is bound to the same rules as I am, I have no issue with who does the coding for the forum at the end of the day

Reactions: Like 4 | Winner 1


----------



## RawRam_cpt (6/12/13)

Seriously though, this thread has inspired me...

Everyone, I am the owner of Google and inventor of the calculator watch and tuxedo T-shirt. 

Please don't judge me. 

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 4

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 3


----------



## Derick (6/12/13)

Now if you had said you invented the internet, I would have been impressed

Reactions: Like 4


----------



## Gizmo (6/12/13)

Exactly Derick. If I had some sort of motive I would have refused to do your review or promote your business. I am not here to just market my small business, If that was my ultimate aim this forum would have been vapeking banner infested. Which is just tacky and really not what I want to do regardless if it increases sales. I love all the people on this forum, I actually love vapers. I found vapers to be really friendly people and this forum is a blessing to have so many great active member.

But anyway I think it would best to lock this thread in case it gets spiteful. Would you guys agree with me?

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Derick (6/12/13)

nah, keep it open - locking it would seem very dictator like IMO. No one has become abusive or otherwise offending.

Mathee is stating his opinion and I think he (and anybody else) should feel free to do so without fear of repercussion or censorship - providing they do it in a civil manner - and so far everything has been.

Reactions: Like 3 | Agree 1


----------



## devdev (6/12/13)

Yeah - freedom of speech - provided we all behave like adults. We can't all be expected to agree, but we can be expected to respect that another person's view is different to our own

Reactions: Agree 2


----------



## RawRam_cpt (6/12/13)

I'm being silly since those taking offence to this confession are being patently absurd.

Have been here for two days and have stuff in a cart at Skyblue and waiting for CVS' new stock, so Vapeking isn't doing itself any favours (other than community and goodwill) by owning this forum. I see no conflicts whatsoever.

Anyone whose been keeping abreast with the international attitude towards vaping will realise that we need to stick together, most of all those making a living from it. The consumer stands to lose a crutch for their addiction, but businesses stand to lose their investments or livelihoods.

Besides, Vapeking is a ridiculous name anyway. We've grown out of monarchies! I say VapePresident! Or at least VapePrimeMinister! Aaaaaaaaaand we're being silly again. 

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 4

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2


----------



## devdev (6/12/13)

RawRam_cpt said:


> I say VapePresident! Or at least VapePrimeMinister!


 
VapeComrade President? VapeFirstCitizen?

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


----------



## Stroodlepuff (6/12/13)

haha I love the members of this forum  you guys really know how to make a person laugh


----------



## Andre (6/12/13)

I do not like being called "patently absurd". That clearly is becoming personal and offensive. And should be warned against.

The threat of closing this thread clearly illustrates the conflict of interest here. Was that contemplated in the interest of the forum community or the commercial interest of VapeKing? And how do we ensure that VapeKing is bound to the same rules - we cannot, we must take their word for it. And if it is abused in future, Skyblue, will you walk away from all of what you have invested in here or will you be tolerant for the sake of commercial interests? It is, however, true that on the face of it no harm has been done since inception up to the point of confession.

That all said, I have immensely enjoyed this forum and hope to have contributed some as well. And agree with Derick that local is certainly lekker and better. I hope to be able to set this matter behind me, belatedly accept Gizmo's apology and continue as a member whose opinions are not always agreed with, but are always respected.

Reactions: Like 4 | Winner 1 | Optimistic 1


----------



## Derick (6/12/13)

Awesome

And yes - Melinda and I are the kind of people that would walk away if we didn't agree with the way things were run. It might not make much commercial sense to do that, but I'm sure you can tell by now that we are not in this for purely commercial reasons

Reactions: Like 3


----------



## Gizmo (6/12/13)

Well I would also be more then keen to have another core admin of the forum. Meaning full access to the backend of the website. This person would need to have knowledge of website administration like Derick has if he would be keen to take up the role?

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Stroodlepuff (6/12/13)

Matthee said:


> I do not like being called "patently absurd". That clearly is becoming personal and offensive. And should be warned against.


 
It has been warned against Matthee

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Derick (6/12/13)

Then you have two suppliers running the forum 

I think it would be a better bet to get someone in no way related to the industry, other than being a vaper and a member of the forum - I know crafty has some knowledge, perhaps he would be up for it?

Besides, my knowledge is really sketchy at best, I've done everything with our site via opensource, themes and a lot of online tutorials

Reactions: Like 1 | Winner 1


----------



## RawRam_cpt (6/12/13)

Mathee, my unreserved apology. No harm or insult was intended.

Hugs? 

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 4

Reactions: Like 3 | Thanks 1


----------



## Gizmo (6/12/13)

Well lets see who takes it up. As I said I am open to it.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Stroodlepuff (6/12/13)

speaking of @CraftyZA he has been unusually quiet today?


----------



## Silver (6/12/13)

Wow, what happened while I was gone?

I went out for most of the day and came back to read this thread and all the posts.

Here are my views

The Good
1. I've loved this forum and learnt a lot
2. It has helped me on 1 occasion to avoid a stinkie
3. I placed an order with SkyBlue, VapourMountain and was still intending on visiting VapeKing soon (since they're near me)
4. As a result, I've learnt a lot, had a few good laughs and found new products and flavours to try out, which I probably wouldnt have easily found without this forum

The Strange
- i always found it strange why eCiggies wasnt part of this forum - maybe now we know why

The Bad
- I agree with Matthee. It is wrong to start anything and let people think you are just a vaper starting something for the community. That is a lie. 

The way forward
- I do believe that this community should ideally be run, controlled and managed by someone who is not trying to sell products etc. If not, there are likely to be challenges down the road. But that is the ideal situation - now we have something a bit different.
- Given the situation and that Gizmo has done a really fantastic job - I can also understand why despite the "lie", it has been a good thing for everyone.
- If the forum continues as is, I will continue to be a happy contributor. I can't see why this can't be done. However there may be challenges down the line, given the inherent conflict of interest.
- If it gets one sided or abused, then I will contribute less and less

One thing though - credit to Gizmo and Stroodle for "coming clean" and apologising. I accept your apology. 

I continue to think this forum can grow from strength to strength - provided the conflict of interest is managed very carefully. 

We soldier on - and here's to finding the ultimate vape.

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Informative 1


----------



## Stroodlepuff (6/12/13)

Hi Silver

Thank you for your honest response  Eciggies was invited to be a part of the forum as well as many other retailers in South Africa but we never got a response, Twisp was also invited and again did not get any response, we wanted to create the forum for the community, there is no intention to have conflict of interests which is why we allow space for other retailers and will continue to do so in the same manner which we have been.

It was honestly started solely for the community though - if it was started for any other reason we would make sure that Vape King was punted more than any other retailer.

We have no intention of changing anything other than any posts relating to Vape King will now be made by Gizmo and myself as opposed to the separate Vape King account. Everything else will remain the same.

If you know of any other retailers that you feel should be part of the forum please let us know and we will gladly send them the same invite which was sent to the retailers which we know of.

Regards
Miss stroodleP

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Andre (6/12/13)

Gizmo said:


> Well I would also be more then keen to have another core admin of the forum. Meaning full access to the backend of the website. This person would need to have knowledge of website administration like Derick has if he would be keen to take up the role?


Gizmo, I have had my say and ample opportunity to give my opinion. We need not take the matter further in my opinion. The vendors are ok, most members seems to be ok. You and Stroodle have done an excellent job up to now. And no apparent harm has been done, so from my side there are no objections to continue as is. One suggestion for the future maybe - declare to new members and vendors that the forum is owned/administered by VapeKing, a reseller on the forum.

Reactions: Like 2 | Agree 2


----------



## Silver (6/12/13)

Surely your names on the left hand side of your postings should now also have the certified retailer badge?
So everyone knows
And surely it should say "Owner of VapeKing"?

Reactions: Agree 3


----------



## Stroodlepuff (6/12/13)

Matthee said:


> Gizmo, I have had my say and ample opportunity to give my opinion. We need not take the matter further in my opinion. The vendors are ok, most members seems to be ok. You and Stroodle have done an excellent job up to now. And no apparent harm has been done, so from my side there are no objections to continue as is. One suggestion for the future maybe - declare to new members and vendors that the forum is owned/administered by VapeKing, a reseller on the forum.


 
We can definately do that Matthee  we will insert it somewhere in the registration email

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Gizmo (6/12/13)

Well will sticky this thread if thats okay.

Reactions: Agree 1 | Disagree 1


----------



## Silver (6/12/13)

I strongly agree with Matthee's most recent post

Ie you have to disclose the conflict of interest.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Gizmo (6/12/13)

Title fixed. @Silver1 what conflict of interest?

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## eviltoy (6/12/13)

I couldn't care less vape on


----------



## Tom (6/12/13)

so, now all seems fixed and voiced, besides gizmo as a vendor being the owner/admin of the forum, so let it carry on with the same spirit as it was before. i suggest to close thread, maybe?

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1


----------



## iPWN (6/12/13)

Im sorry did someone say ...FIVE PAWNS ???

Reactions: Winner 1 | Funny 2


----------



## Andre (6/12/13)

RawRam_cpt said:


> Mathee, my unreserved apology. No harm or insult was intended.
> 
> Hugs?


Your apology unreservedly accepted, thank you RR. No ill feelings at all.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## devdev (6/12/13)

I think let us consider closing the thread on Monday. There may be folks who would want to have their say but have not accessed the forum today.

Let's consider the weekend an amnesty period. Everyone can state their opinion (in a civilised and respectful manner) After Monday we close the thread, and all new members are informed in the registration email about the two hats that Gizmo and Poodlestruff wear.

But yes, the thread should be closed - and soon if things start spiraling out of control.

I am happy to assist in admin on the forum. I once had Acer support talk me through reinstalling MS-Office so I think I have sufficient technical knowledge

Reactions: Like 3


----------



## Stroodlepuff (6/12/13)

iPWN said:


> Im sorry did someone say ...FIVE PAWNS ???


 
Yes  yes we did


----------



## Stroodlepuff (6/12/13)

devdev said:


> I think let us consider closing the thread on Monday. There may be folks who would want to have their say but have not accessed the forum today.
> 
> Let's consider the weekend an amnesty period. Everyone can state their opinion (in a civilised and respectful manner) After Monday we close the thread, and all new members are informed in the registration email about the two hats that Gizmo and Poodlestruff wear.
> 
> ...


 
Agreed Dev, we would like to keep the post open until everyone has had a fair chance to see it and voice their opinions, but yes if things do spiral out of control we will be forced to close the post

Reactions: Agree 1


----------



## Stroodlepuff (6/12/13)

This is how I feel we should be as vapers

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## devdev (6/12/13)

Stroodlepuff said:


> This is how I feel we should be as vapers


 
Mother of Gd!!!! NOOOOOO WHAT HAVE YOU DONE???

I'm going to be singing that for the rest of 2013


Hahahaahaha

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2


----------



## Stroodlepuff (6/12/13)

haha it was stuck in my head so I thought i should share in my torture

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Vaping Jakes (6/12/13)

Well well well, you sneaky buggers
No seriously, thanks for coming clean and well done on an awesome forum. It has been a great stress reliever over the last couple of weeks, and a phenomenal source of information, and inspiration.
Thank you for the constant improvements on the forum. Will come and visit soon to try out some juice.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## CraftyZA (6/12/13)

Stroodlepuff said:


> speaking of @CraftyZA he has been unusually quiet today?


Ok, so I'm back.
It has been one of "those" days for me 
I did keep an eye on the forum a couple of times, but only read everything in detail now.



Derick said:


> I know crafty has some knowledge, perhaps he would be up for it?



Thanks for the vote of confidence Derick. However, I will have to decline. 
I will chat to you tomorrow, and then reply in detail. For now, I'm gonna down 2 beers, and break my bed (sleeping). 

Let me add, I hate fk'n stocktake! Especially when the client decides to change the proven procedure, to do a live count (ie, open for trade while you count 140 000 lines (70%) across 2 companies)


----------



## Silver (6/12/13)

Gizmo said:


> Title fixed. @Silver1 what conflict of interest?



Hi Gizmo

The conflict of interest is that the forum appears to be for the vaping community by the vaping community. However, its being run by one of the retailers. It may be viewed as biased by others. 

I know your intentions are not to be biased and I have seen none - so I dont think it is a problem and shouldnt have to be.

I just think its a good idea to mention it somewhere so people know whats going on.

Hope that makes it clearer?

If you dont see it that way, then dont worry about it - you guys have done a great job and long may it continue...

Reactions: Like 1 | Agree 1 | Thanks 1


----------



## Stroodlepuff (7/12/13)

Ok that clears it up  Thank you

Reactions: Like 2


----------

