Single vs. Multi Battery Mods

[Intuthu Kagesi]

I'm curious as to why the proliferation of Series Dual and Triple Battery Mods, and not Parallel Dual and Triple Battery Mods in the market.

Logically with two, (or more?), 18650 batteries in series, the total current flow limitation is still that of a single battery, call it 25Amps for purposes of this post, however the voltage would be the sum of the two batteries voltages or 3.65Volts * 2 = 7.3Volts.

The lowest theoretical load you could have, (WITHOUT any form of regulation), on a two cell series mod thus would be (3.65Volts*2)/25Amps or 0.282 Ohms, which equates to 182.5 Watts.
The above does NOT take into account the battery internal resistance either!

Furthermore; In a regulated mod, the battery voltage almost becomes irrelevant, as the mod controls, (lowers in this case), the effective output voltage by virtue of pulse width modulation to safe preset limits, so provided the regulated output voltage remains below 3.65 Volts, there is absolutely no advantage to a dual series mod for most vapers.

To get this into perspective; A single cell mod's theoretical maximum power is, (assuming a 25Amp limitation, true of most 18650 batteries sold in SA, along with a voltage 0f 3.65Volts), 91.25Watts.
As most people seem to vape below 50Watts, (and sub ohm to boot), I question whether dual cell series mods are required, as they certainly don't offer any improvement on battery life given the above example, (the only exception would be vapers who use very HIGH coil resistances), also;

Why aren't there parallel cell mods, as that would give twice the battery life, and allow for even lower resistance coils as the maximum current would then double, enabling 50Amps at 3.65 Volts, or 182Watts into 0.073 Ohms, which logically should excite the cloud blowers no end ... me too with the extended battery life.



Incidentally ... The example of parallel vs. series connected batteries having the same power output, and justified by the formulas;
(3.65 * 2) * 25 = 182.5Watts for Series Batteries, and;
3.65 *(25 * 2) = 182.5Watts for Parallel Batteries is mute
This based on the above reference of sub ohm coil resistances, which require voltages BELOW that of single battery voltages.

Attached as reference;

 

[ARYANTO]

I'm curious as to why the proliferation of Series Dual and Triple Battery Mods, and not Parallel Dual and Triple Battery Mods in the market.

Logically with two, (or more?), 18650 batteries in series, the total current flow limitation is still that of a single battery, call it 25Amps for purposes of this post, however the voltage would be the sum of the two batteries voltages or 3.65Volts * 2 = 7.3Volts.

The lowest theoretical load you could have, (WITHOUT any form of regulation), on a two cell series mod thus would be (3.65Volts*2)/25Amps or 0.282 Ohms, which equates to 182.5 Watts.
The above does NOT take into account the battery internal resistance either!

Furthermore; In a regulated mod, the battery voltage almost becomes irrelevant, as the mod controls, (lowers in this case), the effective output voltage by virtue of pulse width modulation to safe preset limits, so provided the regulated output voltage remains below 3.65 Volts, there is absolutely no advantage to a dual series mod for most vapers.

To get this into perspective; A single cell mod's theoretical maximum power is, (assuming a 25Amp limitation, true of most 18650 batteries sold in SA, along with a voltage 0f 3.65Volts), 91.25Watts.
As most people seem to vape below 50Watts, (and sub ohm to boot), I question whether dual cell series mods are required, as they certainly don't offer any improvement on battery life given the above example, (the only exception would be vapers who use very HIGH coil resistances), also;

Why aren't there parallel cell mods, as that would give twice the battery life, and allow for even lower resistance coils as the maximum current would then double, enabling 50Amps at 3.65 Volts, or 182Watts into 0.073 Ohms, which logically should excite the cloud blowers no end ... me too with the extended battery life.



Incidentally ... The example of parallel vs. series connected batteries having the same power output, and justified by the formulas;
(3.65 * 2) * 25 = 182.5Watts for Series Batteries, and;
3.65 *(25 * 2) = 182.5Watts for Parallel Batteries is mute
This based on the above reference of sub ohm coil resistances, which require voltages BELOW that of single battery voltages.

Attached as reference;
View attachment 208158 View attachment 208159 View attachment 208160

My brain is too much in ''isolation'' mode to process all this detail - mod takes 2 batteries ,they lasts a day , I'm ok - the end

 

[Silver]

It’s a good question @Intuthu Kagesi
I am curious after reading your post

I wonder if there are any parallel regulated dual mods around?
I know the noisy cricket (semi mech) can be switched from series to parallel

 

[Dela Rey Steyn]

It’s a good question @Intuthu Kagesi
I am curious after reading your post

I wonder if there are any parallel regulated dual mods around?
I know the noisy cricket (semi mech) can be switched from series to parallel

The Noisy is a straight parallel mech and regulated in series to my knowledge

 

[DougP]

The Noisy is a straight parallel mech and regulated in series to my knowledge

The noisy V2 has 3 modes
Straight parallel
Regulated series
Unregulated series

The original noisy V1 has 2 modes
Straight parallel
Unregulated series




Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk

 

[Timwis]

"As most people seem to vape below 50Watts, (and sub ohm to boot), I question whether dual cell series mods are required, as they certainly don't offer any improvement on battery life given the above example"

I really don't know all the technical stuff and 90% of your post goes straight over my head but the part i have quoted just isn't true as basically every dual 18650 device i have lasts twice as long as a single 18650 and my dual 21700 devices last twice as long as my single 21700 devices.

The way battery life was explained to me between series and parallel was one way it's like both batteries are added together so essentially become one bigger battery and the other way they act as separate batteries so one way the mAh is doubled and the other not but then when you vape the configuration where the mAh isn't doubled you only use half the mAh per battery for the same identical vape at a certain wattage and time duration.

I was given two different maths equations which i can't find which gave the difference between how battery life is worked out between series and parallel and although the two equations were completely different the end battery life as in how it would effect a vaper with a regulated device worked out exactly the same. It was though then explained that there would just be the slightest improvement in battery life and i can't remember if it was in favour of series or parallel because running one way over the other (i can't remember which) was more efficient but we were talking just a couple of %. What i can remember was the efficiency was in favour of the way most think you don't get as good battery life, so essentially they are wrong! But i'm such a muppet i can't remember which was which!

 

[THE REAPER]

That is why i ask who vapes at 200w i dont ever see anyone vape above 110w. But everyone wants a 200w mod lol. But thats just what i am seeing maybe some one does vape at 200w dont know.

 

[Timwis]

That is why i ask who vapes at 200w i dont ever see anyone vape above 110w. But everyone wants a 200w mod lol. But thats just what i am seeing maybe some one does vape at 200w dont know.

People go for the double battery life "which you do get" that's why i don't agree with that part of the OP!

 

[Timwis]

People go for the double battery life "which you do get" that's why i don't agree with that part of the OP!

Personally i like both dual and single battery devices but if i was told i had to choose between the 2 i would opt for single battery especially since we started getting 21700 devices because i just don't like carrying a dual battery device about with me preferring something more portable!

 

[Puff the Magic Dragon]

Watch Mooch's video on series and parallel batteries.

The regulated bit starts from the 10th min but it's worth starting from the beginning.



I prefer using dual battery regulated mods for the battery life. As Mooch explains the two batteries will give you double the life in theory. He explains why this is not always the case.

 

[Room Fogger]

It’s a good question @Intuthu Kagesi
I am curious after reading your post

I wonder if there are any parallel regulated dual mods around?
I know the noisy cricket (semi mech) can be switched from series to parallel

My old Therion 75 is a parallel dual battery mod, and in most cases a set lasts me the whole day, but this is at 18 W on a 0.7 + Ohm coil. It’s still going strong as a daily beater, and if I can ever get one again I’ll take it. But you don’t see them around any more.

 

[Timwis]

My old Therion 75 is a parallel dual battery mod, and in most cases a set lasts me the whole day, but this is at 18 W on a 0.7 + Ohm coil. It’s still going strong as a daily beater, and if I can ever get one again I’ll take it. But you don’t see them around any more.

When i bought my 250C Rebel Mod i considered getting the dual battery 75C version but i was put off because it was in Parallel with no reverse polarity protection, in fact i originally ordered it and Rebel contacted me and talked me into changing devices, they also said they were discontinuing it on safety grounds! My Therion 75C like the 75 also is a dual parallel set-up and personally i prefer that to my 250C Paranormal!

 

[Timwis]

When i bought my 250C Rebel Mod i considered getting the dual battery 75C version but i was put off because it was in Parallel with no reverse polarity protection, in fact i originally ordered it and Rebel contacted me and talked me into changing devices, they also said they were discontinuing it on safety grounds! My Therion 75C like the 75 also is a dual parallel set-up and personally i prefer that to my 250C Paranormal!

Love this device!

 

[DavyH]

I'm curious as to why the proliferation of Series Dual and Triple Battery Mods, and not Parallel Dual and Triple Battery Mods in the market.

Logically with two, (or more?), 18650 batteries in series, the total current flow limitation is still that of a single battery, call it 25Amps for purposes of this post, however the voltage would be the sum of the two batteries voltages or 3.65Volts * 2 = 7.3Volts.

The lowest theoretical load you could have, (WITHOUT any form of regulation), on a two cell series mod thus would be (3.65Volts*2)/25Amps or 0.282 Ohms, which equates to 182.5 Watts.
The above does NOT take into account the battery internal resistance either!

Furthermore; In a regulated mod, the battery voltage almost becomes irrelevant, as the mod controls, (lowers in this case), the effective output voltage by virtue of pulse width modulation to safe preset limits, so provided the regulated output voltage remains below 3.65 Volts, there is absolutely no advantage to a dual series mod for most vapers.

To get this into perspective; A single cell mod's theoretical maximum power is, (assuming a 25Amp limitation, true of most 18650 batteries sold in SA, along with a voltage 0f 3.65Volts), 91.25Watts.
As most people seem to vape below 50Watts, (and sub ohm to boot), I question whether dual cell series mods are required, as they certainly don't offer any improvement on battery life given the above example, (the only exception would be vapers who use very HIGH coil resistances), also;

Why aren't there parallel cell mods, as that would give twice the battery life, and allow for even lower resistance coils as the maximum current would then double, enabling 50Amps at 3.65 Volts, or 182Watts into 0.073 Ohms, which logically should excite the cloud blowers no end ... me too with the extended battery life.



Incidentally ... The example of parallel vs. series connected batteries having the same power output, and justified by the formulas;
(3.65 * 2) * 25 = 182.5Watts for Series Batteries, and;
3.65 *(25 * 2) = 182.5Watts for Parallel Batteries is mute
This based on the above reference of sub ohm coil resistances, which require voltages BELOW that of single battery voltages.

Attached as reference;
View attachment 208158 View attachment 208159 View attachment 208160

Since mods don’t use fixed and balanced battery packs, wouldn’t there be a degree of risk in running unbalanced batteries in parallel (although I doubt the voltage differential is going to be high enough to cause a catastrophic failure)?

 

[Resistance]

Since mods don’t use fixed and balanced battery packs, wouldn’t there be a degree of risk in running unbalanced batteries in parallel (although I doubt the voltage differential is going to be high enough to cause a catastrophic failure)?

That's the main reason people pair and marry them. It would be a total bummer if it was both new and one was lazy from the start. Then the difference between them would matter.

 

[Resistance]

I didn't like dual batt mods when I started vaping. Now it's my go to for DL. And prefere single bat. Mods for MTL.
However when I'm in a remote location where charging is an issue and the single bat. Runs down. I prefer a single coil on a dual mod(MTL or DL)it last longer.

 

[Silver]

"As most people seem to vape below 50Watts, (and sub ohm to boot), I question whether dual cell series mods are required, as they certainly don't offer any improvement on battery life given the above example"

I really don't know all the technical stuff and 90% of your post goes straight over my head but the part i have quoted just isn't true as basically every dual 18650 device i have lasts twice as long as a single 18650 and my dual 21700 devices last twice as long as my single 21700 devices.

The way battery life was explained to me between series and parallel was one way it's like both batteries are added together so essentially become one bigger battery and the other way they act as separate batteries so one way the mAh is doubled and the other not but then when you vape the configuration where the mAh isn't doubled you only use half the mAh per battery for the same identical vape at a certain wattage and time duration.

I was given two different maths equations which i can't find which gave the difference between how battery life is worked out between series and parallel and although the two equations were completely different the end battery life as in how it would effect a vaper with a regulated device worked out exactly the same. It was though then explained that there would just be the slightest improvement in battery life and i can't remember if it was in favour of series or parallel because running one way over the other (i can't remember which) was more efficient but we were talking just a couple of %. What i can remember was the efficiency was in favour of the way most think you don't get as good battery life, so essentially they are wrong! But i'm such a muppet i can't remember which was which!

I hear you @Timwis and with the regulation it does get confusing.

But from my practical experience :

On my dual battery mods I get about double the throughput of juice as I do on a single batt mod. (Same setup and power)

 

[Timwis]

I hear you @Timwis and with the regulation it does get confusing.

But from my practical experience :

On my dual battery mods I get about double the throughput of juice as I do on a single batt mod. (Same setup and power)

That's what i said! lol

 

[Silver]

That's what i said! lol

then I am backing you up
You are right one gets more juice vaped on 2 batts than 1

whether it’s double the amount depends on the mod but it’s definitely much more from what I’ve experienced

 

[Puff the Magic Dragon]

IMO there is no debate if Moose has already said it!

If I am out of the house I almost always use dual battery mods. If I take a single battery mod I have to take a spare battery. It's easier to keep the extra battery in the mod.

 

[Timwis]

IMO there is no debate if Moose has already said it!

If I an out of the house I almost always use dual battery mods. If I take a single battery mod I have to take a spare battery. It's easier to keep the extra battery in the mod.

I'm the opposite only would use dual battery indoors and find a single battery device with a fresh battery when leaving the house lasts with ease and with a single 21700 it laughs at a day out. I do of late vape MTL but even when i'm vaping DL around 30-40watts still find a single battery will last no problem. I guess you must vape at higher wattage's because in years i have never took a spare battery out with me and never ran out of battery life and i can vape a lot so i think it's down to what wattage people vape at as surely if there is no need having something more portable is more desirable.

 

[Stranger]

Batteries in parallel will increase your amp hours, or size if you will, the voltage will remain the same.

Batteries in series will increase your voltage with the same amp hours.

 

[Timwis]

Batteries in parallel will increase your amp hours, or size if you will, the voltage will remain the same.

Batteries in series will increase your voltage with the same amp hours.

In theory you have more starting battery life in Parallel but in series the ampage for the same vape is shared between the two batteries (or something like that) any way you basically get through your mAh life at half the rate. Different equations but when it actually comes to how much vape time a vaper gets it's basically the same!

 

[Stranger]

Indeed, makes a huge difference in automotive and solar applications but is so small in vaping as to be almost redundant. An example is what I do with 12v systems for guys that do overlanding and bush camping. A 50L camping fridge can be run with a single 100 amp/h deep cycle which will give you around 50 amps of usable power. Use an 85L fridge and now you need two 100 amp batteries in parallel to drive the compressors

The fridges are still on 12 V but a dual compressor is going to chew more than a single in amperage, not volts. Same applies to dual coil and single coil.

 

[Timwis]

Indeed, makes a huge difference in automotive and solar applications but is so small in vaping as to be almost redundant. An example is what I do with 12v systems for guys that do overlanding and bush camping. A 50L camping fridge can be run with a single 100 amp/h deep cycle which will give you around 50 amps of usable power. Use an 85L fridge and now you need two 100 amp batteries in parallel to drive the compressors

The fridges are still on 12 V but a dual compressor is going to chew more than a single in amperage, not volts. Same applies to dual coil and single coil.

Your'e getting a bit above my brain capacity lol, i only understood about half that i'm just not that technically minded!