20 Ga Kanthal coil build - not as scary as I thought

[Waine]

I am experimenting with different coil builds. I wanted 22 Ga Kanthal for a specific build but my vendor was fresh out of stock. So I picked up some 20 Ga. I Googled and You Tubed it, and was pleasantly surprised that there is a big place for this thick gauge wire.

I used the amazing "Steam-engine.org" website to get correct dimensions before building. I am fully aware of the dangers of building in the 0.5 to 0.1 Ohms range, especially without decent high drain batteries.

So I built a single coil on my lovely Sapor 25mm RDA, using 3 mm ID, 20 Ga 5 - 1/2 wraps, with a reading of 0.24 Ohm. The Sapor 25mm is a brilliant RDA to build big coils on.

I like the center build set up in between the posts, not having a single coil on one side. I put quite a bit of cotton in, juiced it up and blew some stunning clouds with some "Mega Vape - BubbleTrouble Gum" 3ml nic 85/15% juice. Using the coil master jig was a breeze with the thick wire. In fact, I love the feel of the wire and how it handles, how it responds under the pliers.

I now have a big interest in this wire and will experiment more with it, aiming for 0.5 - 0.8 Ohm on a dripper with a duel coil.

Has anyone else used it? Any opinions and shared experiences will be welcome.








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[stevie g]

Have run 22g wire before.

Try 3.5mm - 4mm diameter, thick wire begs for huge diameter.

 

[stevie g]

Once wrapped and mounted heat the wire and pull the coil apart so it's spaced.

 

[Silver]

View attachment 70846

I am experimenting with different coil builds. I wanted 22 Ga Kanthal for a specific build but my vendor was fresh out of stock. So I picked up some 20 Ga. I Googled and You Tubed it, and was pleasantly surprised that there is a big place for this thick gauge wire.

I used the amazing "Steamengine" website to get correct dimensions before building. I am fully aware of the dangers of building in the 0.5 to 0.1 Ohms range, especially without decent high drain batteries.

So I built a single coil on my lovely Sapor 25mm RDA, using 3 mm ID, 20 Ga 5 - 1/2 wraps, with a reading of 0.24 Ohm. The Sapor 25mm is a brilliant RDA to build big coils on.

I like the center build set up in between the posts, not having a single coil on one side. I put quite a bit of cotton in, juiced it up and blew some stunning clouds with some "Mega Vape - BubbleTrouble Gum" 3ml nic 85/15% juice. Using the coil master jig was a breeze with the thick wire. In fact, I love the feel of the wire and how it handles, how it responds under the pliers.

I now have a big interest in this wire and will experiment more with it, aiming for 0.5 - 0.8 Ohm on a dripper with a duel coil.

Has anyone else used it? Any opinions and shared experiences will be welcome.








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Great looking coil @Waine !
Hows the vape? And the ramp up time?

If you want to use that wire to get a 0.5 in dual coil config, you will likely have to build two coils, each being about 20 wraps! If 5 wraps gave you 0.24, you will need 20 wraps to get you to 1 ohm. Then in dual, two 1 ohmers will come out at 0.5. Not sure if that will be practical but i have never tried it myself

 

[Waine]

@Silver Thanks for the info. The ramp up time is relatively fast. The Vape is full, dense and flavourful. I am loving this wire...

I am going to play around a bit more on my other attys with the use of Steam-engine.org and this chunky metal.

I do somehow get a vibe that this wire is good for RDA,s mainly.

@Sprint, thanks for the tips.


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[Waine]

I tried the spacing technique with the 20 Ga Kanthal, as suggested by @Sprint but I encountered difficulties.



I tried a 4 wrap spaced coil with a 3.5 ID using the 20 Ga Kanthal on the Velocity RDA on the Sigelei 90W. I got an 0.11 Ohm reading just after completing the coil and tightening the grubs. After replacing the cap, before wicking, I did a test fire. The Mod gave me a "Low resistance reading". Perhaps the coil was touching the cap but I don't think so.



So I discarded the build and started again but using a compressed or micro coil style. Same thing:
4 wrap coil with a 3.5 ID using the 20 Ga Kanthal on the Velocity V1 RDA on the Sigelei 90W. I fired it up and tweaked the coils. Got a 0.10 Ohm reading. I was aiming for between 0.03 to 0.08. It worked with the cap on.



I wicked it up, test fired, and got a nice puff of vape. Replaced the cap, placed the RDA on my SIMPL Mech Mod, and gave it a vape. Awesome! Cool, dense and a nice full vape. I vaped my test juice that I am the most familiar with, to test the taste -- "Foggs Famous sauce - At First Flight". The taste was on par with any other build I have tried.

Conclusion:

1. Spaced coils with this wire give a lower ohm reading. Micro (joined) coils with the same number of wraps work better if you are aiming for the lowest reading with the maximum number of wraps.

2. This gauge wire is under rated. I am glad I experimented with it. A little goes a long way.

3. The ramp up time is not nearly as slow as I initially anticipated.

 

[Silver]

Wow @Waine
Glad it worked for you

Just a question, what battery were you using in the SMPL mod and what resistance were you firing on it?

 

[Greyz]

I tried the spacing technique with the 20 Ga Kanthal, as suggested by @Sprint but I encountered difficulties.

View attachment 70953

I tried a 4 wrap spaced coil with a 3.5 ID using the 20 Ga Kanthal on the Velocity RDA on the Sigelei 90W. I got an 0.11 Ohm reading just after completing the coil and tightening the grubs. After replacing the cap, before wicking, I did a test fire. The Mod gave me a "Low resistance reading". Perhaps the coil was touching the cap but I don't think so.

View attachment 70954

So I discarded the build and started again but using a compressed or micro coil style. Same thing:
4 wrap coil with a 3.5 ID using the 20 Ga Kanthal on the Velocity V1 RDA on the Sigelei 90W. I fired it up and tweaked the coils. Got a 0.10 Ohm reading. I was aiming for between 0.03 to 0.08. It worked with the cap on.

View attachment 70955

I wicked it up, test fired, and got a nice puff of vape. Replaced the cap, placed the RDA on my SIMPL Mech Mod, and gave it a vape. Awesome! Cool, dense and a nice full vape. I vaped my test juice that I am the most familiar with, to test the taste -- "Foggs Famous sauce - At First Flight". The taste was on par with any other build I have tried.

Conclusion:

1. Spaced coils with this wire give a lower ohm reading. Micro (joined) coils with the same number of wraps work better if you are aiming for the lowest reading with the maximum number of wraps.

2. This gauge wire is under rated. I am glad I experimented with it. A little goes a long way.

3. The ramp up time is not nearly as slow as I initially anticipated.

0.1ohms on an SMPL...

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[Feliks Karp]

The sig only fires down to 0.1 on power mode. You won't get 0.03 or 0.06 with those coil specs. It would be roughly 0.0975 which is why the mod was saying 0.1 and after some heat it was low to fire.

Also I'd be careful firing those on a mech, if the battery is at a full 4.2 v you are going to be creating 180 watts, *edit which is dangerous on your mech.

 

[Waine]

@Silver I was using the green Samsung 18650 - 25R SDI I showed you earlier this week. I was firing it on the SIMPL @ 0.10 -0.11 Ohms. That is the reading that I got on the Sig before I changed it to the SIMPL. I should have first got a more accurate reading on my Ohm meter. I am still vaping it now with no problems.

The nice thing about this wire is that the first hit takes a while to ramp, but once it is hot, it stays hot so all the subsequent hits take a very short ramping time.

@FelixKarp Thanks for the valuable information. I learned something from it. Wow, no wonder its chucking clouds: 176.40 Watts! I would imagine that the battery loses power pretty fast with this thick wire so the wattage will drop significantly too, bringing it into a safer zone.

 

[Feliks Karp]

imagine that the battery loses power pretty fast with this thick wire so the wattage will drop significantly too, bringing it into a safer zone.

Now you are either trolling or don't understand ohms law at all. You are already drawing 46 amps, the lower the battery goes, you will be drawing even more amps, so either you are joking around with us or being incredibly dangerous. ie : at the lowest of 3.2 v you will be drawing 56 amps.

 

[Waine]

@Felix Probably the latter. As I humbly always state: "I am learning"....So why now turn your useful help into a wise crack? Did you read the words: "I would imagine?..."

 

[Feliks Karp]

@Felix Probably the latter. As I humbly always state: "I am learning"....So why now turn your useful help into a wise crack?

I guess I couldn't imagine anyone being so dangerous with all the information available here. My apologies, I amended my post to explain why.

 

[Silver]

Hi @Waine

Check out Mooch's battery table
http://www.ecigssa.co.za/18650-battery-safety-grades-table.t14853/#post-269785

That one is a bit outdated but it still has the rating for your battery. You will see he rates the Green Samsung 25R with a max continuous current draw of 20 amps

At 0.1 ohms, you are drawing around 40 amps on a battery that is at 4.0V
Amps = Voltage / Resistance

So you are drawing double what that battery is rated for continuously.

Maybe you are being lucky with a few short 1 or 2 second pulls, but the problem is if something goes wrong with that SMPL and it suddenly starts firing in your pocket, that could spell trouble.

I strongly suggest you build to well within the 20 amp continuous limit of that battery or consider getting another battery with a higher continuous amp rating if you want to build that low on a mechanical mod.

Just trying to help and hope you will understand.

 

[Silver]

PS - if something goes wrong in that SMPL and the battery starts venting - it could be very dangerous

 

[Waine]

@Silver Thanks. I have moved the Velocity with the low build to a Regulated Mod.


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[Waine]

@Silver I still feel like such a doos for my lack of knowledge of Ohms law. Today I tried to study it again on the web. I only seem to grasp the basics. While I am gifted in other areas of life, I suck at maths and science, especially the science of electronics.

The thing is this: I have never done anything in my life that concerns working with electronics. By vaping, a whole new world has unfolded before me, and by learning how to build coils, I find this new territory extremely interesting and challenging at the same time. I rely on throwing myself practically, into coil building in order to learn. One can read all the books (theory) on any new topic, but it's only when you get involved practically or "Hands on" that one learns. Secondly, the old cliche: we learn mainly from our mistakes.

It's people like you on this forum that give me the confidence and encouragement to keep on practicing and experimenting in order for me to master this "science".

Thank you for your diplomatic and kind approach. You always show an interest and patience with fellow members here, from day one. I appreciate that!


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[Silver]

@Silver I still feel like such a doos for my lack of knowledge of Ohms law. Today I tried to study it again on the web. I only seem to grasp the basics. While I am gifted in other areas of life, I suck at maths and science, especially the science of electronics.

The thing is this: I have never done anything in my life that concerns working with electronics. By vaping, a whole new world has unfolded before me, and by learning how to build coils, I find this new territory extremely interesting and challenging at the same time. I rely on throwing myself practically, into coil building in order to learn. One can read all the books (theory) on any new topic, but it's only when you get involved practically or "Hands on" that one learns. Secondly, the old cliche: we learn mainly from our mistakes.

It's people like you on this forum that give me the confidence and encouragement to keep on practicing and experimenting in order for me to master this "science".

Thank you for your diplomatic and kind approach. You always show an interest and patience with fellow members here, from day one. I appreciate that!


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Thanks for the kind words @Waine
You are most welcome
Vaping certainly is a great way to learn all about Ohms law !
Quite fascinating how these electronic gadgets work.

 

[Waine]

So, after my embarrassing lesson I learned, as per the above thread, I am continuing with my experiments with 20 gauge Kanthal, and really having fun. I have done a lot more reading on battery safety in a Mech mod, and many experiments, here is just one:

On the left is the SIMPL under the Velocity RDA with 20 Ga Kanthal, 6 wraps, 4mm ID, at 0.32 Ohm.

On the right is another SIMPL under a Twisted Messes Clone RDA, same build, at 0.37 Ohm.

Am I in safe zone guys?

What I enjoy with this wire is 4 things:

1. After the first hit and long ramp up time, the wire stays so hot that the subsequent hits are really quick and just great. The flavour and vape density is super.

2. The wire is nice to work with being so thick. Pinching the coils with a pliers when dry testing works so easily. I battle with thin finneky wire. I think perhaps 22 ga is probably going to be my go to wire.

3. When I do a wick change, after dry burning and washing, the wire stands strong and in place, un-moved. It feels like I will be able to get a good few wick changes with this wire. (i.e. The same coil) I must say, after 3 days, the cotton is rather black under the coil section.

4. This wire is great for single coils on an RDA. The long wick experiment just works so well for me.

 

[Greyz]

View attachment 71355

So, after my embarrassing lesson I learned, as per the above thread, I am continuing with my experiments with 20 gauge Kanthal, and really having fun. I have done a lot more reading on battery safety in a Mech mod, and many experiments, here is just one:

On the left is the SIMPL under the Velocity RDA with 20 Ga Kanthal, 6 wraps, 4mm ID, at 0.32 Ohm.

On the right is another SIMPL under a Twisted Messes Clone RDA, same build, at 0.37 Ohm.

Am I in safe zone guys?

What I enjoy with this wire is 4 things:

1. After the first hit and long ramp up time, the wire stays so hot that the subsequent hits are really quick and just great. The flavour and vape density is super.

2. The wire is nice to work with being so thick. Pinching the coils with a pliers when dry testing works so easily. I battle with thin finneky wire. I think perhaps 22 ga is probably going to be my go to wire.

3. When I do a wick change, after dry burning and washing, the wire stands strong and in place, un-moved. It feels like I will be able to get a good few wick changes with this wire. (i.e. The same coil) I must say, after 3 days, the cotton is rather black under the coil section.

4. This wire is great for single coils on an RDA. The long wick experiment just works so well for me.

0.32ohm is 55W @13amps and
0.37ohm is 48W @11amps

Your well safe @Waine - Glad to see your doing "sane" builds, was getting worried you wont be around much longer

 

[Feliks Karp]

My intent was never to embarrass you, please accept my apologies if I was a little rough, I'm going through a really shit time, and I was a tad crass in my response.

Both those builds are safe, and should be fairly enjoyable vapes.

http://www.steam-engine.org/ohm.asp

There's a calculator there, just a tip for future experiments, use the highest voltage when working out the wattage, and the lowest voltage for your amp draw safety margins.

Glad to see you enjoying experimenting and now being safer.

 

[Limbo]

Now you are either trolling or don't understand ohms law at all. You are already drawing 46 amps, the lower the battery goes, you will be drawing even more amps, so either you are joking around with us or being incredibly dangerous. ie : at the lowest of 3.2 v you will be drawing 56 amps.

You really need to study that law again. The lower the voltage, the lower the amps. Ie 4.2v at 1 ohm will be 4.2 amp, 3.5v at 1 ohm will be 3.5 amp.

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[Feliks Karp]

You really need to study that law again. The lower the voltage, the lower the amps. Ie 4.2v at 1 ohm will be 4.2 amp, 3.5v at 1 ohm will be 3.5 amp.

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Yes you're right, in my haste I was using the wattage at a constant, I'm used to calculating amp draw on regulated mods where the wattage is a constant.

*edit* and again apologies to @Waine , I haven't had running water in my home for 8 days now, after all the pipe bursts some tonsil stole my water meter, it's made me in to a bit of a dipstick.

 

[Waine]

@Greyz Thanks a ton! I am getting the drift now.

@Feliks Karp No problem. All forgiven. I hope you get through this tough time soon.


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[Warlock]

Noob question please: How do you fire a SMPL, can you do it with one hand only?