Alcohol in E-liquids
- Thread starter OhmzRaw
- Start date
Is it possible to evaporate off ALL traces of alcohol from concentrates? It's difficult to diy using only flavours that don't have alcohol. I have tons of recipes I want to give a shot but can't because of the alcohol content. Thanks to all the vendors that list this.
I know alcohol has to used to extract certain flavours but if our local vendors made companies like tfa more aware of this they could perhaps work on certain alcohol free flavours where possible.
At the end of the day everyone wants an increase in sales and I'm sure concentrate and juice vendors will see a definite spike in sales on their juices/concentrates previously containing alcohol.
One juice I really want to try is ashybac by @Mike and I appreciate the fact that he has mentioned which of his juices contain alcohol. 'Ashybac alcohol free' and sales will go up guaranteed (counting my orders lol).
I know alcohol has to used to extract certain flavours but if our local vendors made companies like tfa more aware of this they could perhaps work on certain alcohol free flavours where possible.
At the end of the day everyone wants an increase in sales and I'm sure concentrate and juice vendors will see a definite spike in sales on their juices/concentrates previously containing alcohol.
One juice I really want to try is ashybac by @Mike and I appreciate the fact that he has mentioned which of his juices contain alcohol. 'Ashybac alcohol free' and sales will go up guaranteed (counting my orders lol).
@ReeZ sadly it's not as easy to do this as one may think. I chatted to a chemist and we did some testing. Removing the alcohol alone is very difficult and the tests we did all came up pretty disappointing.
I'm sure if you contacted some vendors, they'd be willing to make a plan for you, but they probably cannot guarantee that it'll be at the same level as the original / other juices.
I'm sure if you contacted some vendors, they'd be willing to make a plan for you, but they probably cannot guarantee that it'll be at the same level as the original / other juices.
@ReeZ there are very, very small amounts. It's possible to get rid of all of them, but there are other chemicals and solvents with much lower boiling points (at a guess, 30° or so even, pressure dependant). Flaming the juice will remove more than just the alcohol and probably initiate other reactions. Boiling the alcohol off removed a lot of the flavour and generally just ruined things. The concentrate producers would get rid of it if they reasonably could - it's really not just that easy 
What is the reason you want to get rid of the alchohol?
Alcohol (in fact all intoxicants) are considered forbidden in Islam. Even in quantities that do not intoxicate. Although It's use is allowed for medicinal purposes eg. Cough syrup.
Naturally extracted vanilla essence is made using alcohol and would therefore be considered forbidden.
The use of eliquids isn't considered a necessity (in terms of life or death) although to many of us it feels like that lol so if it contains alcohol will be haram.
Yes that is correct @Viper_SA.
The alcohol family is quite vast because of the way alcohol is grouped according to it's chemical structure.
However according to Islamic law the forbidden alcohol is specific to ethyl alcohol. This topic can go quite deep as even fruits can produce small quantities of ethyl alcohol as they ripen! Not haram in case you're wondering.
Perfumes and many cosmetics contain alcohol which are not ethyl alcohol and are allowed.
There are many other solvents that can be used to make concentrates but since ethyl alcohol is the cheapest it's the most commonly used solvent. Pity.
However it's not feasible to change the process and incur additional costs for a minority... Or is it...?
Naturally extracted vanilla essence is made using alcohol and would therefore be considered forbidden.
The use of eliquids isn't considered a necessity (in terms of life or death) although to many of us it feels like that lol so if it contains alcohol will be haram.
Yes that is correct @Viper_SA.
The alcohol family is quite vast because of the way alcohol is grouped according to it's chemical structure.
However according to Islamic law the forbidden alcohol is specific to ethyl alcohol. This topic can go quite deep as even fruits can produce small quantities of ethyl alcohol as they ripen! Not haram in case you're wondering.
Perfumes and many cosmetics contain alcohol which are not ethyl alcohol and are allowed.
There are many other solvents that can be used to make concentrates but since ethyl alcohol is the cheapest it's the most commonly used solvent. Pity.
However it's not feasible to change the process and incur additional costs for a minority... Or is it...?
@ReeZ I've been wondering this too as I am a food scientist and we work with flavours all the time and some of them are alcohol based but when we test the food no alcohol present. So I was wondering would vaping it intoxicate us as I am Muslim as well and also what is the % volume of alcohol that is present per bottle I'm thinking perhaps alcohol is evaporated upon vaping I'm no analytical chemist just asking.
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@gman211991 it could be that once diluted, there's too little alcohol to detect. This would most likely be the case with many e-liquids, although there are particles present, they'll be in an extremely low concentration.
The problem is that the flavour recipe makers (TFA etc.) need ethyl alcohol to get some of the ingredients to combine. PG can only do so much in certain cases I'm afraid. So your favourite flavours without ethyl alcohol would separate and not combine - and consequently, taste rather gross I would imagine
The other thing to remember, is that they use a real tiny amount of alcohol to achieve this - like less than 0.1% of the concentrated flavour. You are only going to use around 8% of that flavour in your mix, so it is going be in the parts per million range that we are talking about.
At that level, manufacturers are not obliged to disclose that it contains alcohol - so there are quite possibly plenty products out there with these trace amounts of alcohol that you could have consumed throughout your life.
I do however understand why you need to avoid it if you know about it
The other thing to remember, is that they use a real tiny amount of alcohol to achieve this - like less than 0.1% of the concentrated flavour. You are only going to use around 8% of that flavour in your mix, so it is going be in the parts per million range that we are talking about.
At that level, manufacturers are not obliged to disclose that it contains alcohol - so there are quite possibly plenty products out there with these trace amounts of alcohol that you could have consumed throughout your life.
I do however understand why you need to avoid it if you know about it
No worries a lot of people aren't aware of this.
@gman211991 I remember reading somewhere that testing equipment can't pick up alcohol below certain trace levels even though it's present. @Derick you're correct I'm sure there's many foods we've eaten and even eat on a daily basis where alcohol is present but either, as in gmans experience they can't be picked or they're below a certain level whereby there's no need for them to be declared in the ingredients. A certain amount of ethyl alcohol in foods is considered acceptable because of the natural formation of it.
When we vape the alcohol just changes to from liquid to gas and there's only 1 way it can go... Into our lungs. You definitely won't get intoxicated by it and I doubt a blood alcohol test will even be able to pick it up because as @Derick said it's such tiny amounts that's it's in the ppm range.
I know some people might ask if it's such a small amount why bother.
My decision is based on the fact that all intoxicants are forbidden even at quantities that do not intoxicate.
However as alcohol is present in trace amounts in so many food products which we end up consuming knowingly or unknowingly I'm sure there is a religious ruling (fatwa) pertaining to it which I will find out.
I'm not sure if the ruling will pertain to ejuice containing alcohol, however I will post it here if/when I do get an answer.
From my understanding if the alcohol is derived from grapes, dates or barely then it's use in even medicinal products is haram. But this can differ according to school of thought and I definitely don't qualify to make decisions using my (lack of) knowledge. However these days most ethyl alcohol is derived from maize.
Very interesting subject @ReeZ. No idea if this is authoritative, but found the following in
Q1396. Is it permissible to smoke tobacco that is sprinkled with a kind of alcoholic drink?
And is it permissible to inhale its smoke?
A: There is no objection to it provided that smoking that kind of tobacco would
not, by the common view, be considered as though one is consuming an
intoxicating drink. Also, it should not lead to drunkenness or a considerable
harmful effect on one’s health.
REPLIES TO INQUIRIES ABOUT THE
Practical Laws of Islam
The English Version of
(Ajwibah al-Istiftā‘āt)
Grand Ayatollah
Sayyid Ali Hosseini Khamenei
Practical Laws of Islam
The English Version of
(Ajwibah al-Istiftā‘āt)
Grand Ayatollah
Sayyid Ali Hosseini Khamenei
Q1396. Is it permissible to smoke tobacco that is sprinkled with a kind of alcoholic drink?
And is it permissible to inhale its smoke?
A: There is no objection to it provided that smoking that kind of tobacco would
not, by the common view, be considered as though one is consuming an
intoxicating drink. Also, it should not lead to drunkenness or a considerable
harmful effect on one’s health.
I had a long chat about this with a very close friend of mine. However he's Iraqi born and views might differ regionally. He is of the opinion that there is intention to be intoxicated and if the possibility is 0, he has no qualms with it.
However I had a colleague who would not use cutlery which had been used on non-halal food. So I do understand that individuals decide how stringently they live.
However I had a colleague who would not use cutlery which had been used on non-halal food. So I do understand that individuals decide how stringently they live.
I totally agree therefore rather avoid if unsure Bru. Would be easier if vendors just notified us before hand as they have in the past
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@Andre, the problem with the internet these days is that there's so much misinformation out there. When it comes to religious matters I rarely check on the internet, and being a Muslim, the few times I have done so I was shocked at what I've read!
None of the Islamic scholars I know will ever condone this, however he is entitled to his view. I always urge people to ask a learned Islamic scholar (of which there are many in South Africa) rather than check on the net. With that said there are legitimate websites.
@Mike yes contamination between halal and haram food products is a huge issue which is sometimes overlooked, but as you and Derick said it's a personal thing and each person will have their own interpretation of how they should live their lives.
At the end of the day none of us are perfect and it's an even bigger sin to judge someone because that's up to God to do.
None of the Islamic scholars I know will ever condone this, however he is entitled to his view. I always urge people to ask a learned Islamic scholar (of which there are many in South Africa) rather than check on the net. With that said there are legitimate websites.
@Mike yes contamination between halal and haram food products is a huge issue which is sometimes overlooked, but as you and Derick said it's a personal thing and each person will have their own interpretation of how they should live their lives.
At the end of the day none of us are perfect and it's an even bigger sin to judge someone because that's up to God to do.
Absolutely @ReeZ. I was just offering a little perspective from a person who grew up in an entirely Muslim country.
I however personally don't necessarily agree with cookware and cutlery being "contaminated". If I have a Muslim guest, I will clean everything as I do for myself and make sure my ingredients are all halal. I'd be quite offended if that were an issue to my guest. Thankfully I only know once person who is so strict with their choices.
I however personally don't necessarily agree with cookware and cutlery being "contaminated". If I have a Muslim guest, I will clean everything as I do for myself and make sure my ingredients are all halal. I'd be quite offended if that were an issue to my guest. Thankfully I only know once person who is so strict with their choices.
@Mike you take extra precaution to ensure nothing gets contaminated which is not something your average Joe or restaurant will do. Eg, they'll cut your vegetarian pizza with the same pizza cutter that was used to cut a bacon and pineapple pizza immediately before that. that is the contamination I refer to, and is just one example.
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