Are cheap poor quality juices KILLING the Vape Industry?

[SergeiGrey]

Good Day

I have a pressing question for the community.

Are cheap poor quality juices KILLING the Vape Industry in South Africa?

If you think about it.

1. The shops are struggling because people spend less!
2. People Vape less because it is no longer an enjoyable experience!
3. New cheap juices come in 120ml 2mg, as a knock-on effect because we vape less of a lower mg Nicotine we are slowly weaning ourselves of the nicotine!
4. Bigger bottles plus less vaping means fewer feet into Vape shops fewer feet means a lot less sales!
5. What if these poorer quality cheaper juices start making people sick, this is possible because they are trying to make it as cheap as possible. By design and choice using cheaper concentrates and cheaper nicotine!
6. Cheaper juices make vaping more accessible to teenagers because it is now affordable for them!

My opinion is that stocking and selling cheaper poorer quality is counter-intuitive and damaging to the industry.

Soon the government will have to jump in and regulate the industry, which will result in flavour bans and stricter controls.

Is it not better that we self-regulate if we don't the government will be happy to do so.

Some food for thought this morning for the Vape Shops.

 

[Puff the Magic Dragon]

IMO vape juice is so cheap to make that it wouldn't be worth making juice out of cheaper ingredients.

The DIYers among us buy all our ingredients in small volumes and at retail prices. Even at these inflated prices we make DIY juice at a small fraction of the retail juice prices.

From day one we have heard scare stories about dangerous fake/clone juices out there but I am unaware of any health issues with these juices.

That having been said there are always nutters out there so it's best to buy from reputable vendors.

 

[Adephi]

If you are referring to counterfeit juices you get from Chinese and Indian stores then absolutely yes.

But budget juices can help people switch to vaping. One of the main reason people don't switch is because of costs.

I believe in an open market. A retailer or manufacturer can sell his product at whatever price they want. Its the consumer that needs to make the choice to buy or not. And the retailer and manufacturer need to adjust to that.

 

[SergeiGrey]

Interesting perspective, thanks for sharing your view.

 

[SergeiGrey]

If you are referring to counterfeit juices you get from Chinese and Indian stores then absolutely yes.

But budget juices can help people switch to vaping. One of the main reason people don't switch is because of costs.

I believe in an open market. A retailer or manufacturer can sell his product at whatever price they want. Its the consumer that needs to make the choice to buy or not. And the retailer and manufacturer need to adjust to that.

I didn't even think to consider counterfeit juices.

 

[Dela Rey Steyn]

To a certain extent I have seen this happen. Our "small town" vape shop in Louis Trichardt has unique problem in this regard. It is more of a socioeconomic issue really. Louis Trichardt (LTT) has a very low income community, with a population smaller than most suburbs in Pretoria (PTA).
When Richie opened shop here in LTT, most of us vapers that live here rejoiced, as we did not have to always resort to ordering online. When he started, he tried his best to compete with the shops in PTA and JHB, Premium Juices, latest and greatest devices etc. Unfortunately, most of these guys had minimum orders that were a bit rough for small town LTT. He almost closed shop after year one. Then came the introduction of the Budget Juice ranges, and Richie and the majority of the vapers in town rejoiced, but only for a short while. Yes, the public could finally get what they wanted: cheaper Juice, but it came at a cost. These Budget juices are mostly blander and taste "watered down". So after year 2 he almost shut down again, because sales dropped immensely. Yes budget juices got the people buying again, but it was almost never repeat business. People want cheap-premium juice, hell, most of us would love it! Because the economy has not been kind to us lately. There are some good/semi-all right budget ranges, but most of them are useless and a negative for the industry in my opinion.

 

[CJB85]

If you are referring to counterfeit juices you get from Chinese and Indian stores then absolutely yes.

But budget juices can help people switch to vaping. One of the main reason people don't switch is because of costs.

I believe in an open market. A retailer or manufacturer can sell his product at whatever price they want. Its the consumer that needs to make the choice to buy or not. And the retailer and manufacturer need to adjust to that.

I voted no before reading this reply and I have to say I agree with the "counterfeit" type angle. I do not however feel that liquids like the Vapology range at R150 per 100ml will do any damage at all. A LOT of smokers have mentioned that vaping is too expensive if you vape quite a bit, so I am all for prices ranging from cheap to premium. Liquor stores haven't closed down because they are stocking Harrier next to the Johnny Walker Blue label.

 

[Stranger]

I also find this very interesting. In business terms vaping is in it's infancy and one of the few industries that has had massive tech leaps in a very short time. It has yet to bottom out. 18 months ago I would never have thought to mix my own juice from scratch, yet it is a relatively simple process. Same with coils and building. I must have halved and halved again my costs relating to my habit.
I DIY juice and I build coils, this in itself has saved me a lot of money albeit offset by the purchases of newer tech and rebuildables. This I think has also had an effect on the retail side. My last order for DIY was around R400 and this will produce around 1 L of juice for me, so R40 per 100ml. I am reluctant to use the word equivalent for my juice but I like what I make and am very happy with it. I would pay upwards of R 120, 3 x the price if I bought retail.

 

[Jean claude Vaaldamme]

Do you have any proof that cheaper juice is poorer quality?
Vape shops screw the public with their markups. All us diy'ers know what a 100ml cost to produce, and thats not even buying in bulk

I have bought many expensive juice that was pretty k#k

 

[Dela Rey Steyn]

Do you have any proof that cheaper juice is poorer quality?
Vape shops screw the public with their markups. All us diy'ers know what a 100ml cost to produce, and thats not even buying in bulk

I have bought many expensive juice that was pretty k#k

I don't think vape shops screw us. Commercial Juice are mostly manufactured is ISO standard labs, which come at a cost. Then it needs to be couriered to the respective shops. Shops have overheads and salaries to pay, they buy large quantities that at some times sits on a shelf for weeks /months that it does provide them with any income. Only to be eventually sold. So economically speaking, we are still getting premium juices at a good price.

 

[RenaldoRheeder]

An interesting topic which will probably attract varied responses. I personally don't think that it will have any significant effect on the industry. We have the same occurring in many other industries and they are all still around.

We generally assume that price dictates quality, but that is defenitely not always the case. I have vaped (and and continue to) both low cost and more expensive juices and the higher price does not always ensure that I will enjoy it more, and neither does the lower price mean that I will enjoy it less.

Like all other industries there will always be a price range that cater for all budgets (which is a good thing) and poor quality will not kill the industry but rather the specific product.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Stranger]

Well defending the retail outlets a little, they have overheads that we do not. Rental, salary's, utilities, stock, Insurance and I am sure they would like a little profit, at least I would. All to provide us with some convenience

 

[RenaldoRheeder]

I don't think vape shops screw us. Commercial Juice are mostly manufactured is ISO standard labs, which come at a cost. Then it needs to be couriered to the respective shops. Shops have overheads and salaries to pay, they buy large quantities that at some times sits on a shelf for weeks /months that it does provide them with any income. Only to be eventually sold. So economically speaking, we are still getting premium juices at a good price.

Agree 100%. Besides, it is a free market system and our choices of vendors is wide.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MrDeedz]

MTL Juice prices must drop and Volume increase KLA GEPRAAT LOL, thats my 12mg worth

 

[KrayFish404]

Vape shops screw the public with their markups.

I am not going to disagree or agree with that, but something is most definitely not right. I see the exact same with whisky. We are being nailed hectically with import tax. So the general consensus would then be that a product made in SA would (should?) be remarkably cheaper than an import of the same quality, right?

Bains is a good whiskey. But at R289 I can still buy a super import - even if we excuse the massive import duty, and the shipping cost.

Why is some local liquid on par with pricing, the same as imported juice - which has gone through the same import tax and shipping cost as a whisky?

I will remain opinionless, I DIY myself. But that has always bothered me. look, no-one does a job because they like it - we do it because of money, so that we can buy the things we like. If you are not going to make the extra buck, someone else will.

 

[CJB85]

I don't think vape shops screw us. Commercial Juice are mostly manufactured is ISO standard labs, which come at a cost. Then it needs to be couriered to the respective shops. Shops have overheads and salaries to pay, they buy large quantities that at some times sits on a shelf for weeks /months that it does provide them with any income. Only to be eventually sold. So economically speaking, we are still getting premium juices at a good price.

I have to (somewhat) agree here as well... It is like a pair of running shoes, the material in a R2000 pair of shoes may only be R100, but you need to factor in the labour, facilities, transport, creator profit, store profit etc... not even to mention the R&D costs, I often wonder how much time and mixing goes into a liquid before it goes to market.

I do however think that no liquid should be R300 for 60ml and that 120ml bottles should become industry standard.

 

[CJB85]

I am not going to disagree or agree with that, but something is most definitely not right. I see the exact same with whisky. We are being nailed hectically with import tax. So the general consensus would then be that a product made in SA would (should?) be remarkably cheaper than an import of the same quality, right?

Bains is a good whiskey. But at R289 I can still buy a super import - even if we excuse the massive import duty, and the shipping cost.

Why is some local liquid on par with pricing, the same as imported juice - which has gone through the same import tax and shipping cost as a whisky?

I will remain opinionless, I DIY myself. But that has always bothered me. look, no-one does a job because they like it - we do it because of money, so that we can buy the things we like. If you are not going to make the extra buck, someone else will.

I think economies of scale may be part of it here, so the imported liquids actually manage to be as "cheap" as local liquids, as they have a market of 10's of thousands.

I further think that there is a real opportunity to save some money on all fronts, if juice makers were willing to have larger containers of premium liquid at shops (perhaps just the specific liquids that sell really fast), where you can get a discount if you fill your own (or old) container.

 

[KrayFish404]

 

[Puff the Magic Dragon]

If you tell someone that you have something special to sell them they will believe you... most of the time.

Take running shoes as an example. Many weekend joggers insist that they need the latest and greatest running shoes. They make many claims about their magical goodness and hand over thousands.

Bruce Fordyce's down run comrades record stood for 21 years. How many groundbreaking improvements did shoe manufacturers claim to have made during this 21 year period.

People often like to pay more. It gives them status and a feeling of exclusivity.

Expensive juice will always be there and some will buy it with a smile.

The fact that a lot of juices are more expensive than good Whisky doesn't surprise me anymore.

 

[Riaz_sh]

local premium juice should not be selling at the price of an international
a premium local juice costs about R150-200 for a 60ml
anything over R200 for a local juice is overpriced in my opinion

 

[Hooked]

Cheap is not necessarily poor quality.

I think economies of scale may be part of it here, so the imported liquids actually manage to be as "cheap" as local liquids, as they have a market of 10's of thousands.

I further think that there is a real opportunity to save some money on all fronts, if juice makers were willing to have larger containers of premium liquid at shops (perhaps just the specific liquids that sell really fast), where you can get a discount if you fill your own (or old) container.

It's a good idea but the only problem is that vapers are so fickle! A particular juice is all the rage for a while - until the next one comes along, after which the previous one is forgotten! So that which sells very fast this week, may be ignored next week.

 

[Wimmas]

Just my opinion:

I am 100% against counterfeit juices selling at low prices.

However, legit juices at low prices are welcome. Some of them are not very tasty, but some are. Same applies to expensive juices, not all are great.

What I really struggle to understand is how local brands go for R350+ per 100ml, while I buy imports like Jam Monster at R270 per 100ml. Yes there are costs and one cannot compare it to the costs of DIY'ing 100ml, but I think R320 for 120ml is still fair and should be profitable.

I'd like to know what the margins are these local guys are making... Manufacturer to retail, and retail to consumer.

Wonder what will happen to pricing once the tax is applied.

Sent from my MAR-LX1M using Tapatalk

 

[Hooked]

@SergeiGrey I'm just wondering ... are you a juice-maker? Vape shop owner? I just get the feeling that thou doth protest too much.

 

[Dela Rey Steyn]

local premium juice should not be selling at the price of an international
a premium local juice costs about R150-200 for a 60ml
anything over R200 for a local juice is overpriced in my opinion

I disagree here. International liquids are made in much larger quantities than local and they have a larger offset area than local juices. I'm no Rockefeller by any standards. But I honestly feel that our local "premium juices" are reasonably priced for the quality we receive. I can't always afford to buy the quantity that I would like, but have a few backup budget juices to keep me going and I dabble (mostly unsuccessfully) in DIY. So when the good stuff runs out, I can sustain myself until I can buy my favorites again. We have some of the cheapest juices world wide in SA, and I've read multiple times that international Vapers are extremely full of praise for our local mixologists.

 

[Dela Rey Steyn]

I see a lot of comments saying that premium juices taste bad, but just remember that taste is extremely subjective.