Are we losing the war?

[kev mac]

Hi everyone, I've been persona non grata for a bit but things have gotten to the point where I have to reach out to my forum mates.Today the state of Michigan banned vapeing and I'm concerned other states will follow suit.This morning it was the topic on local talk radio and I listened with interest naturally.First a State Representative called in and called for the ban in Rhode Island calling ecigs "tobacco products".Then the calls came in one after the other citing how e liquid contains antifreeze, oil and all sorts of poisons.Plus how nicotine is the absolute worst substance in existence.I couldn't believe the misinformation being aired and this caused me to do something I've never even considered,to call in to a talk show.I shouldn't have bothered.When I tried to explain that P.G. and V.G. were the components of ejuice the host quickly said " and it is also in antifreeze to which I tried to reply that she was taking this out of context in as much as arsnic is in rice and lectins are in kidney beans but every time I tried to make a counterpoint she'd talk over me.When I finally asked if she was going to let me make my case or was she going to continue to talk over me she responded by saying I live under a rock and ended my call.This is what we are up against,and the public takes the misinformation spewed by the Tobacco and Pharmaceutical lobbies and runs with it.Vapeing has been vilified and most non vapers hate it.
While I agree that there's a problem with underage vapeing and the availability of cig-a-likes to minors banning all vape products isn't the answer but that may be the road we're on.
I've called my Reps here and in Washington, responded to Cassa and it's calls to action but unfortunately I think it is all in a war we were always destined to lose.

 

[ARYANTO]

Thank you for at least trying , I love your guts .

 

[Adephi]

Hi everyone, I've been persona non grata for a bit but things have gotten to the point where I have to reach out to my forum mates.Today the state of Michigan banned vapeing and I'm concerned other states will follow suit.This morning it was the topic on local talk radio and I listened with interest naturally.First a State Representative called in and called for the ban in Rhode Island calling ecigs "tobacco products".Then the calls came in one after the other citing how e liquid contains antifreeze, oil and all sorts of poisons.Plus how nicotine is the absolute worst substance in existence.I couldn't believe the misinformation being aired and this caused me to do something I've never even considered,to call in to a talk show.I shouldn't have bothered.When I tried to explain that P.G. and V.G. were the components of ejuice the host quickly said " and it is also in antifreeze to which I tried to reply that she was taking this out of context in as much as arsnic is in rice and lectins are in kidney beans but every time I tried to make a counterpoint she'd talk over me.When I finally asked if she was going to let me make my case or was she going to continue to talk over me she responded by saying I live under a rock and ended my call.This is what we are up against,and the public takes the misinformation spewed by the Tobacco and Pharmaceutical lobbies and runs with it.Vapeing has been vilified and most non vapers hate it.
While I agree that there's a problem with underage vapeing and the availability of cig-a-likes to minors banning all vape products isn't the answer but that may be the road we're on.
I've called my Reps here and in Washington, responded to Cassa and it's calls to action but unfortunately I think it is all in a war we were always destined to lose.

On Tuesday evening they had a similar talk on a radio station over here. They had some "professor" that explained the recent developments in the US regards to the THC in backyard juices and the casualty involved. The amount of miss information was shocking. Somebody did phone in to try and correct things but the damage was done.

Well done to you for phoning in. Thats something we need to do more. We need to make our voices heard. Comment on negative posts. Phone in to stations and ask where are our reports. We don't have any of these negative symptoms. Where are our stories?

 

[Room Fogger]

Hi everyone, I've been persona non grata for a bit but things have gotten to the point where I have to reach out to my forum mates.Today the state of Michigan banned vapeing and I'm concerned other states will follow suit.This morning it was the topic on local talk radio and I listened with interest naturally.First a State Representative called in and called for the ban in Rhode Island calling ecigs "tobacco products".Then the calls came in one after the other citing how e liquid contains antifreeze, oil and all sorts of poisons.Plus how nicotine is the absolute worst substance in existence.I couldn't believe the misinformation being aired and this caused me to do something I've never even considered,to call in to a talk show.I shouldn't have bothered.When I tried to explain that P.G. and V.G. were the components of ejuice the host quickly said " and it is also in antifreeze to which I tried to reply that she was taking this out of context in as much as arsnic is in rice and lectins are in kidney beans but every time I tried to make a counterpoint she'd talk over me.When I finally asked if she was going to let me make my case or was she going to continue to talk over me she responded by saying I live under a rock and ended my call.This is what we are up against,and the public takes the misinformation spewed by the Tobacco and Pharmaceutical lobbies and runs with it.Vapeing has been vilified and most non vapers hate it.
While I agree that there's a problem with underage vapeing and the availability of cig-a-likes to minors banning all vape products isn't the answer but that may be the road we're on.
I've called my Reps here and in Washington, responded to Cassa and it's calls to action but unfortunately I think it is all in a war we were always destined to lose.

@kev mac , really sad to hear what is happening there in the country of the “free”, we are also sitting here watching with baited breath. It’s a pity that people in an media that are supposed to be neutral can twist things to suit their agenda, irrespective of the truth, and unfortunately this seems to be happening more and more.

At this stage it’s seems they are more “worried” over vaping, which I think is driven by tobacco money, than about other deadly drugs out there because it’s a soft target.

Let’s just remember one thing, you only lose if you give up and stop fighting. I hope that us in SA will stand together even more, we are going to need it going forward. To all the vapers out there, many happy clouds to you and our thoughts are with our international brothers and sisters and the fight for a healthier live they are allready in. We await our chance.

 

[Silver]

Thanks for sharing that @kev mac
Good on you for phoning in

It is very frustrating when the media latches on to the negative without presenting a balanced picture

We try hard on the forum here, through our events and interactions with the Vapour Product Association of South Africa (VPA) to spread the good word about what vaping has done for many of us.

 

[kev mac]

On Tuesday evening they had a similar talk on a radio station over here. They had some "professor" that explained the recent developments in the US regards to the THC in backyard juices and the casualty involved. The amount of miss information was shocking. Somebody did phone in to try and correct things but the damage was done.

Well done to you for phoning in. Thats something we need to do more. We need to make our voices heard. Comment on negative posts. Phone in to stations and ask where are our reports. We don't have any of these negative symptoms. Where are our stories?

@Adephi @Room Fogger it simply amazes me the amount of outright lies perpetrated especially by the media.But I have learned just how agenda driven it has become since our last presidential election.The days of Ed Morrow and Walter Cronkite are sadly a thing of the past.Why are people so willing to believe anything they hear without looking for the truth? While I'll never stop fighting I must admit my confidence is waning.

 

[SparkySA]

Hi everyone, I've been persona non grata for a bit but things have gotten to the point where I have to reach out to my forum mates.Today the state of Michigan banned vapeing and I'm concerned other states will follow suit.This morning it was the topic on local talk radio and I listened with interest naturally.First a State Representative called in and called for the ban in Rhode Island calling ecigs "tobacco products".Then the calls came in one after the other citing how e liquid contains antifreeze, oil and all sorts of poisons.Plus how nicotine is the absolute worst substance in existence.I couldn't believe the misinformation being aired and this caused me to do something I've never even considered,to call in to a talk show.I shouldn't have bothered.When I tried to explain that P.G. and V.G. were the components of ejuice the host quickly said " and it is also in antifreeze to which I tried to reply that she was taking this out of context in as much as arsnic is in rice and lectins are in kidney beans but every time I tried to make a counterpoint she'd talk over me.When I finally asked if she was going to let me make my case or was she going to continue to talk over me she responded by saying I live under a rock and ended my call.This is what we are up against,and the public takes the misinformation spewed by the Tobacco and Pharmaceutical lobbies and runs with it.Vapeing has been vilified and most non vapers hate it.
While I agree that there's a problem with underage vapeing and the availability of cig-a-likes to minors banning all vape products isn't the answer but that may be the road we're on.
I've called my Reps here and in Washington, responded to Cassa and it's calls to action but unfortunately I think it is all in a war we were always destined to lose.

Hey Kev

I think it's like the gasoline VS afgas/handigas

Cars can run on handigas but due to the money that gov makes from gasoline it will never take, imagine how much money companies make from selling stinkys, and how much pharmaceutical companies make from treating cancer patients and so on.

As long as we keep fighting we can make weed legal for an example so never stop fighting bro... We love your bravery......

Thanks for standing with us

 

[kev mac]

Thanks for sharing that @kev mac
Good on you for phoning in

It is very frustrating when the media latches on to the negative without presenting a balanced picture

We try hard on the forum here, through our events and interactions with the Vapour Product Association of South Africa (VPA) to spread the good word about what vaping has done for many of us.

Hi @Silver While some idiotic vapers such as those having Mechs blow up in their faces or posting clouds made by 1000w devices get hyped ,the good work done by the likes of ECIGSSA go unnoticed for the most part.It is maddening!

 

[kev mac]

Hey Kev

I think it's like the gasoline VS afgas/handigas

Cars can run on handigas but due to the money that gov makes from gasoline it will never take, imagine how much money companies make from selling stinkys, and how much pharmaceutical companies make from treating cancer patients and so on.

As long as we keep fighting we can make weed legal for an example so never stop fighting bro... We love your bravery......

Thanks for standing with us

@SparkySA it is my honor standing with the marvellous people I've come to know on forum.That said my dad used to tell me of things brought out when he was in WW2 like forever batteries only to be hidden for decades after it ended.Profit over people first and foremost.Reminds me of David Mamets' The Water Engine.

 

[Grand Guru]

I’m convinced that we just lost a battle but the war is still long. American law is dictated nothing but by lobbies. And this ban on vaping in Michigan reveals how the giants of the tobacco industry are starting to see their market shares dropping significantly. Otherwise why would there be something like the IQOS on the market?

 

[Arthster]

Unfortunately and I mean no disrespect to the US but America is built on two major commodities, oil and tobacco. And at present battery devices is putting both of them under huge pressure.

Those industries are putting up a fight and they are not going to just give up.

If it makes you feel any better this game has been played since I started vaping. Yes unfortunately in some areas the uninformed has won but in others the vapers have...

The show isn't over until the fat lady vapes.

 

[kev mac]

Unfortunately and I mean no disrespect to the US but America is built on two major commodities, oil and tobacco. And at present battery devices is putting both of them under huge pressure.

Those industries are putting up a fight and they are not going to just give up.

If it makes you feel any better this game has been played since I started vaping. Yes unfortunately in some areas the uninformed has won but in others the vapers have...

The show isn't over until the fat lady vapes.

You are absolutely correct on the U.S. comment.I find it funny how many states including mine now allow for Marijuana sales but at least here in R.I. I see very little puplic outrage.I think this is due to the large tax revenue it creates.Our leaders here have done such a terrible job with our bloated budget that they keep their mouths shut not wanting to bite the hand that feeds them.Same with alcohol.How many deaths are directly attributed to it but yet no calls to ban the stuff.As @Room Fogger pointed out vapeing is a soft target and politicians love thumping their chests when little is at stake to them.

 

[Grand Guru]

Here is some positive news
https://www.medicalbrief.co.za/arch...aping-expert-blames-thc-e-liquid-off-streets/

https://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com/2019/08/in-my-view-cdc-and-health-groups-bias.html?m=1

 

[Arthster]

You are absolutely correct on the U.S. comment.I find it funny how many states including mine now allow for Marijuana sales but at least here in R.I. I see very little puplic outrage.I think this is due to the large tax revenue it creates.Our leaders here have done such a terrible job with our bloated budget that they keep their mouths shut not wanting to bite the hand that feeds them.Same with alcohol.How many deaths are directly attributed to it but yet no calls to ban the stuff.As @Room Fogger pointed out vapeing is a soft target and politicians love thumping their chests when little is at stake to them.

The biggest threat to vaping as an industry is the fact that there is no organization that both regulates it and fights for it. Like you said its a soft target because there are a few people on the street that's going to be grumpy and that's the extent of it.

As for the money thing... oh hells yes. just look at what's currently going on in SA with regards to companies letting politicians dip into the cookie jar to get business done. Not only local business but large international corporates. Bets are if there was a large listed company that made juice or devices and they where willing to play the "Here is a donation" game you would have seen a completely different attitude towards vaping.

I actually want to change my previous statement from the "uninformed" to the "well informed but unpaid".

 

[takatatak]

On Tuesday evening they had a similar talk on a radio station over here. They had some "professor" that explained the recent developments in the US regards to the THC in backyard juices and the casualty involved. The amount of miss information was shocking. Somebody did phone in to try and correct things but the damage was done.

Well done to you for phoning in. Thats something we need to do more. We need to make our voices heard. Comment on negative posts. Phone in to stations and ask where are our reports. We don't have any of these negative symptoms. Where are our stories?

Hey @Adephi, if you're referring to the talk on 702 just before 6pm on Tuesday then that would be me that called in to try and clarify the matter... I think I got some decent points across but sadly ran out of time on air. Hopefully people with brains heard what was said and it sparks further discussions on the matter in which the informed few can educate the ignorant... Not many things frustrate me more than fake news and disinformation

 

[Hooked]

Hi everyone, I've been persona non grata for a bit but things have gotten to the point where I have to reach out to my forum mates.Today the state of Michigan banned vapeing and I'm concerned other states will follow suit.This morning it was the topic on local talk radio and I listened with interest naturally.First a State Representative called in and called for the ban in Rhode Island calling ecigs "tobacco products".Then the calls came in one after the other citing how e liquid contains antifreeze, oil and all sorts of poisons.Plus how nicotine is the absolute worst substance in existence.I couldn't believe the misinformation being aired and this caused me to do something I've never even considered,to call in to a talk show.I shouldn't have bothered.When I tried to explain that P.G. and V.G. were the components of ejuice the host quickly said " and it is also in antifreeze to which I tried to reply that she was taking this out of context in as much as arsnic is in rice and lectins are in kidney beans but every time I tried to make a counterpoint she'd talk over me.When I finally asked if she was going to let me make my case or was she going to continue to talk over me she responded by saying I live under a rock and ended my call.This is what we are up against,and the public takes the misinformation spewed by the Tobacco and Pharmaceutical lobbies and runs with it.Vapeing has been vilified and most non vapers hate it.
While I agree that there's a problem with underage vapeing and the availability of cig-a-likes to minors banning all vape products isn't the answer but that may be the road we're on.
I've called my Reps here and in Washington, responded to Cassa and it's calls to action but unfortunately I think it is all in a war we were always destined to lose.

@kev mac I think it's disgusting that you weren't even allowed to make your case. It certainly seems as if America is losing the war, with one state following the other in banning vaping. To be honest, it surprises me. I've always thought of the USA as being free and progressive!

Our only hope here in SA is that our government follows the lead of the UK and New Zealand, otherwise we're done for.

 

[Adephi]

Hey @Adephi, if you're referring to the talk on 702 just before 6pm on Tuesday then that would be me that called in to try and clarify the matter... I think I got some decent points across but sadly ran out of time on air. Hopefully people with brains heard what was said and it sparks further discussions on the matter in which the informed few can educate the ignorant... Not many things frustrate me more than fake news and disinformation

That was the one. You did excellent. Would love to get more such messages out.

 

[Hooked]

@kev mac

Have a look here to see what Alt in New Zealand has done . Just by the way, New Zealand's government is pro-vaping and they even have a website informing people about it, but advertising will no longer be allowed.

 

[Hooked]

@kev mac

MICHIGAN GOVERNOR DECLARES CIGARETTES SAFE
https://vapinglinks.blog/2019/09/05/michigan-governor-declares-cigarettes-safe/

5 Sept. 2019

"Governor Gretchen Whitmer of Michigan has arrogantly declared cigarettes are safe and will remain available for consumers of all ages in her state. “Alternative nicotine products” will be banned to protect the children ™.

It seems the words “regulate, restrict, tax and ban” will not catch on (in that order) as I had envisioned. Michigan, like San Francisco, has chosen the word “ban” for less harmful products to protect the children™ … I’m happy to report however, cigarettes are safe.

 

[Arthster]

@kev mac

MICHIGAN GOVERNOR DECLARES CIGARETTES SAFE
https://vapinglinks.blog/2019/09/05/michigan-governor-declares-cigarettes-safe/

5 Sept. 2019

"Governor Gretchen Whitmer of Michigan has arrogantly declared cigarettes are safe and will remain available for consumers of all ages in her state. “Alternative nicotine products” will be banned to protect the children ™.

It seems the words “regulate, restrict, tax and ban” will not catch on (in that order) as I had envisioned. Michigan, like San Francisco, has chosen the word “ban” for less harmful products to protect the children™ … I’m happy to report however, cigarettes are safe.

I have no words to describe how absolutely shocked I am at that statement...

Really need to go sit down and think how I am going to express my disbelieve at that utter BS. How is it even possible for a person with that kind of mentality to actually make it into that position...

In SA we atleast have the friend of a friend excuse but... that won't fly in the States.

 

[Arthster]

So maybe a but of topic but a interesting observation with relevance.

Ok so SA isn't the same as the USA where each state is almost a seperate little country and vaping isn't banned. When I started vaping in 2014 I use to stand alone in the smoking area and smokers gave me this how dare you enter our haven you filthy pudding smelling rat look. 5 years later and I just came back from a vape break, we were 11 guys standing in conversation and out of that group 2 where smoking tobacco the rest of us where vaping.

amazing how times have changed.

 

[takatatak]

@kev mac

MICHIGAN GOVERNOR DECLARES CIGARETTES SAFE
https://vapinglinks.blog/2019/09/05/michigan-governor-declares-cigarettes-safe/

5 Sept. 2019

"Governor Gretchen Whitmer of Michigan has arrogantly declared cigarettes are safe and will remain available for consumers of all ages in her state. “Alternative nicotine products” will be banned to protect the children ™.

It seems the words “regulate, restrict, tax and ban” will not catch on (in that order) as I had envisioned. Michigan, like San Francisco, has chosen the word “ban” for less harmful products to protect the children™ … I’m happy to report however, cigarettes are safe.

I just posted this on her FB pages:

According to your very own CDC...
https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/fast_facts/index.htm

It's fascinating that you would leave these cancer sticks on the shelves but choose to ban the most effective method of NRT because adults are to reckless and money-hungry to not sell tobacco or nicotine products to minors.

Meanwhile you have corporate tycoons like McDonalds, Burger King, Nestlé, Monsanto et al getting away with murder because their toxic products and practices are brushed aside like they're no reason for concern...

You must have greasy palms and evidently very little common sense... Sorry if I offended you but you use your position of authority to negatively influence society...

How much kickback are you getting from big tobacco and big pharma to demonise e-cigarettes??
If you condone the use of cigarettes then you can only be a delinquent...​

Maybe a bit hotheaded but yeah... These people frustrate me with their petty concerns when we have things like melting ice caps, burning rainforests & violent civil unrest to worry about!!

 

[Arthster]

I just posted this on her FB pages:

According to your very own CDC...
https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/fast_facts/index.htm

It's fascinating that you would leave these cancer sticks on the shelves but choose to ban the most effective method of NRT because adults are to reckless and money-hungry to not sell tobacco or nicotine products to minors.

Meanwhile you have corporate tycoons like McDonalds, Burger King, Nestlé, Monsanto et al getting away with murder because their toxic products and practices are brushed aside like they're no reason for concern...

You must have greasy palms and evidently very little common sense... Sorry if I offended you but you use your position of authority to negatively influence society...

How much kickback are you getting from big tobacco and big pharma to demonise e-cigarettes??
If you condone the use of cigarettes then you can only be a delinquent...​

Maybe a bit hotheaded but yeah... These people frustrate me with their petty concerns when we have things like melting ice caps, burning rainforests & violent civil unrest to worry about!!

Brother I doff my cap. Time that we stop being nice to politicians they need to get off of that High horse and start to remember they work for us, the people... Not us for them.

Any politicians of any country need to sit down with a dictionary and lookup two words.., Civil and Servants.

 

[Adephi]

@kev mac

MICHIGAN GOVERNOR DECLARES CIGARETTES SAFE
https://vapinglinks.blog/2019/09/05/michigan-governor-declares-cigarettes-safe/

5 Sept. 2019

"Governor Gretchen Whitmer of Michigan has arrogantly declared cigarettes are safe and will remain available for consumers of all ages in her state. “Alternative nicotine products” will be banned to protect the children ™.

It seems the words “regulate, restrict, tax and ban” will not catch on (in that order) as I had envisioned. Michigan, like San Francisco, has chosen the word “ban” for less harmful products to protect the children™ … I’m happy to report however, cigarettes are safe.

She must have the same speach writer as Trump. I really hope that is the case.

 

[Lawrence A]

Common sense is not all that common it seems.

Mind boggling to say the least.