Batteries - Let's get rid of fakes!

[JakesSA]

I would like to start a {edit} certification {/edit} campaign to eradicate all fake batteries from South Africa's vendors shelves.

@johan, is it possible to build an accurate battery tester which all vendors can use to ensure that their shipments of batteries conform to the specifications advertised?

If it is within my capabilities I will build and supply these to all interested vendors this at cost of components. We can maybe create a campaign badge which vendors can then use on their website to certify that their batteries have been tested as per this certification making it much easier for the customer to ensure that his batteries has been tested and are safe for use and conform to the specifications as advertised.

Would any vendors be keen on such a device?

 

[Silver]

Have moved this to "Who has stock" @JakesSA

I know its not about who has stock but I think it will get more traction with the vendors in this area of the forum.

Vendors, feel free to comment and communicate here on this

 

[JakesSA]

A-ok with that @Silver as long as the effort remains community driven. It is very important for the vaping community to trust the 'certification' too and all input is wholly welcomed!

So far I think minimum requirements for the the testing device would be current draw capabilities vs temperature and voltage as well as capacity measurements.

It should be preprogrammed to measure at certain settings so that all measurements taken by all vendors are the same.

We can also make it an 'internet of things' device so that the results can be automatically uploaded by the device and then be available for all to see on a website. A sort of national database for the certification. That way the certification badge is more than just an easy to copy image on a website.

 

[Jakey]

This is an awesome initiative @JakesSA

 

[Christos]

A "professional" lipo charger in my possession says this about the chemistries it can charge and discharge.
Charges, discharges and cycles 2-7S HV LiPo, 1-8S LiIon/LiPo/LiFe (A123), 1-24 cell NiCd/NiMH and 6-30V Pb (lead-acid) batteries on each port.

However the chemistry of 18650's I don't think fall in this category.
Would be easy to use a device already capable of discharging batteries at set amps.

 

[blujeenz]

@johan, is it possible to build an accurate battery tester which all vendors can use to ensure that their shipments of batteries conform to the specifications advertised?

Until such time as its available, one of the telltale signs of internal batt chemistry is the weight of the cell.
my efest 2500mah = 45g
tesiyi 40A 2600mah=44.5g
tesiyi 40A 2600mah=47g
Cheap Chinese 18650 blue wrap 3800mah from a laser=30.43g

 

[JakesSA]

Weight is indeed a tell tale but not an all out indicator. If you look at the batterybros test, their fake looks like it turned out to be an LG HE2/HE4 which has less capacity but weights turned out to be within 0.5 grams of one another. Another issue here is the accuracy/precision of the scale used.

What I am proposing is a common device used by all who have a vested interest in such a device, which performs the same test wherever it is used and allows publication of test results to an easily and publicly accessible database. Using the same device creates a path to certification which can then be commonly trusted.

It would of course be possible to 'gippo' the test by entering false information about the battery being tested but I think the risk of public exposure would keep most from going that route and a simple photo of the test in progress with a unique number generated for that specific test as proof can also, possibly, circumvent that.

If many vendors have access to this device they can also test, as a public service, any battery a client may bring in who may have doubts about his/her product.

 

[Andre]

This is an awesome initiative @JakesSA

+1

 

[SAVapeGear]

I would also be interested in such a testing device.

 

[JakesSA]

I'll jump the gun, since @johan is probably nursing a Guiness in the green country somewhere .. my proposal for the microcontroller (brain) behind the unit is the ESP8266 as popularised by NodeMCU, it has built in WiFi with TTL on micro USB for programming and plenty of GPIOs and a 10 bit ADC. The boards as displayed below can be had for a few dollars so I suggest a modular design leaving us to only design the various inputs (temperature and voltage?) and current switches together with a battery clamp on a plug in shield .. of sorts.

 

[johan]

I'll jump the gun, since @johan is probably nursing a Guiness in the green country somewhere .. my proposal for the microcontroller (brain) behind the unit is the ESP8266 as popularised by NodeMCU, it has built in WiFi with TTL on micro USB for programming and plenty of GPIOs and a 10 bit ADC. The boards as displayed below can be had for a few dollars so I suggest a modular design leaving us to only design the various inputs (temperature and voltage?) and current switches together with a battery clamp on a plug in shield .. of sorts.

with 4k on board flash ram - you should be able to do with LUA programming language and display results in real time on your website, I like - cheaper solution with graphic display; I used a ST8S processor and did all the programming in C++, total size = 13,998 bytes, display internal resistance, mAh capacity and temperature, plus some protection features. PS. I know - will post some pics as soon as time allows.

 

[johan]

I would like to start a {edit} certification {/edit} campaign to eradicate all fake batteries from South Africa's vendors shelves.

@johan, is it possible to build an accurate battery tester which all vendors can use to ensure that their shipments of batteries conform to the specifications advertised?

If it is within my capabilities I will build and supply these to all interested vendors this at cost of components. We can maybe create a campaign badge which vendors can then use on their website to certify that their batteries have been tested as per this certification making it much easier for the customer to ensure that his batteries has been tested and are safe for use and conform to the specifications as advertised.

Would any vendors be keen on such a device?

I like your suggestion - everything is possible, the impossible just takes a wee-bit longer. Maybe its really now time for me to take the current design to a commercial level. My thinking is that even an 8-bit solution will be able to distinguish between the real McCoy and these fakes. I will play during the week and see if we can't put something accurate together that will even fit the average vaper's pocket.

 

[JakesSA]

Fantastic @johan, maybe a retail model that includes both private individuals and one for vendors who wish to 'certify' their batteries? So that when someone says "Vaping on those boxes are bad news, the batteries explode!" being able to reply "I buy my gear from a {putcoolnamehere} certified vendor, and you?"

Who knows ... this may have appeal far beyond South Africa and even outside the vaping community.

Most importantly it may put a stop to those unscrupulous a$$hats who re-wrap and mislabel batteries for a living ...

 

[johan]

Yip @JakesSA, I've been running with the idea to commercialize a "Battery Analyzer" for the average vaper for months know, and as you very well know, quantities will bring down the pricing within reach of John Doe's pocket. I even thought of a Kick-starter project, but I'm very bad when it comes to dealing with the general public. I will pm you as soon as I've had a chance to experiment with more economical solutions (8 or 10-bit instead of 12-bit).

PS: You get Big lies, small lies and then test results .

 

[JakesSA]

Awesome, a serial interface to pc on usb would also do perfectly fine for transferring data. I am amazed by just how inexpensive the ESP8266 is for a wifi device. (And it can be programmed by the Arduino environment too .. )

 

[JakesSA]

I see some boards are advertised with 4M flash?

 

[zadiac]

I like this idea. I have no freakin' idea what most of what you all just said means, but I like the idea that we can test our own batteries and root out the morons who sell us fakes.

 

[johan]

I see some boards are advertised with 4M flash?

Yes but they are a bit more pricey - with 4mb you can control your whole house and every appliance you can think of.

 

[johan]

Awesome, a serial interface to pc on usb would also do perfectly fine for transferring data. I am amazed by just how inexpensive the ESP8266 is for a wifi device. (And it can be programmed by the Arduino environment too .. )

My only gripe with the Arduino IDE and Wiring programming language is the waste of valuable bites - and yes the usb to serial is a nice to have for live data transfer.

 

[DS_vaper]

@JakesSA brilliant idea brother

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