Batteries Update
- Thread starter Rob Fisher
- Start date
There is a thread on this forum about them with links to ECF, candlepower forums and dampfakkus.de can't find it right now but some googlefu should get you there.
My concern us how reliable are these forums? Are they using the exact same ones? Are they maybe using fake batteries? Has any Efest battery ever exploded? I understand the concern for sub par batteries, but so far there is no evidence from local people using them.
All I know is that efest claimed a high amperage rating on a battery that clearly wasn't meant for the specs they claimed. Made me distrust them and I did quite a bit of reading. Try find that thread its interesting reading. Efest themselves have come back and said ok its only 10A continuous discharge.
So this one time, I microwaved a spoon and it worked out fine.
Does that mean I can just shove it full of metal now, because everything has worked fine SO FAR?
"SO FAR" is a very dangerous statement, pretty much on par with "TRUST ME".
The reliability of the tests and data was so good that Efest themselves did a backpedal and quickly told some more lies to cover up their previous lies...
Here's the one link from ECF
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...87759-purple-efest-18650-battery-warning.html
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...87759-purple-efest-18650-battery-warning.html
Huh? There's no evidence of the specified battery even heating up at 0.6ohm. What have the test concluded? They explode at 0.4ohm? I just asked for evidence from local people using them, no need to be a ass about it.
Not being an ass, but see it whichever way you want.
Keyword: SAFELY.
Can you vape them lower than 0.8 anyway?
Sure!
SO FAR, nobody has blown their own face off... so far...
Here's the link to Efest purple 2500mAh
http://www.dampfakkus.de/akkutest.php?id=509
and the Efest purple 2100mAh
http://www.dampfakkus.de/akkutest.php?id=508
http://www.dampfakkus.de/akkutest.php?id=509
and the Efest purple 2100mAh
http://www.dampfakkus.de/akkutest.php?id=508
Here is the purple 3100mAh one's that came out at 4A instead of 20A.
http://www.dampfakkus.de/akkutest.php?id=531
That one is the nail in the coffin.
Here I must interject..
The 3100 mah may well be based on a Panasonic but it may not even be the NCR18650BE, these cells are completely unmarked under the wrapper. That is an assumption from dampfakkus which he sort of concedes at the bottom of the webpage OR indicates that the 'official' rating for the NCR18650BE may be inaccurate.
I quote from the dampfakkus link: "EN: This cell is advertised as 20A. However it is based on a Panasonic NCR18650BE which is rated anywhere between 4A and 6.4A max continuous discharge. Performance test results put it on a level between NCR128650B (6.5A) and Panasonic NCR18650PF (10A) and is doing fine there. "
This is further supported by the exhaustive testing performed here:
http://lygte-info.dk/ - this is the KeepPower equivalent of this cell. See the comment at the bottom of the page. Confirmation that the cell performs fine at 10A continuously and therefore will handle down to 0.4 ohm amicably. You may agree that this test is rather comprehensive.
The 2500 mah Efest is based on an LG cell which officially has a 75 second rating at 35A and and handles 20A continuously.
http://lygte-info.dk/
Last thing to note, dampfakkus assumes that the rating stated on the cell is continuous whereas Efest does not make this statement. Efest states "Max discharge rating", draw your own conclusions.
Stated on the Efest cells is a pulse rating which may actually be more in line with the requirements of vaping. Continuous ratings become important when you are looking to use the cell in a torch or perhaps to drive an electric motor.
VTC5s are great but there is a large demand for these cells which Sony is not really interested in meeting. This is leading to large amount of fakes coming into the market. Take it from someone who looks at vape gear price lists daily ... buyer beware.
Note that I am a retailer and sell the 3100mah and my opinion may therefore be biased, but I also use them .. extensively.
The 3100 mah may well be based on a Panasonic but it may not even be the NCR18650BE, these cells are completely unmarked under the wrapper. That is an assumption from dampfakkus which he sort of concedes at the bottom of the webpage OR indicates that the 'official' rating for the NCR18650BE may be inaccurate.
I quote from the dampfakkus link: "EN: This cell is advertised as 20A. However it is based on a Panasonic NCR18650BE which is rated anywhere between 4A and 6.4A max continuous discharge. Performance test results put it on a level between NCR128650B (6.5A) and Panasonic NCR18650PF (10A) and is doing fine there. "
This is further supported by the exhaustive testing performed here:
http://lygte-info.dk/ - this is the KeepPower equivalent of this cell. See the comment at the bottom of the page. Confirmation that the cell performs fine at 10A continuously and therefore will handle down to 0.4 ohm amicably. You may agree that this test is rather comprehensive.
The 2500 mah Efest is based on an LG cell which officially has a 75 second rating at 35A and and handles 20A continuously.
http://lygte-info.dk/
Last thing to note, dampfakkus assumes that the rating stated on the cell is continuous whereas Efest does not make this statement. Efest states "Max discharge rating", draw your own conclusions.
Stated on the Efest cells is a pulse rating which may actually be more in line with the requirements of vaping. Continuous ratings become important when you are looking to use the cell in a torch or perhaps to drive an electric motor.
VTC5s are great but there is a large demand for these cells which Sony is not really interested in meeting. This is leading to large amount of fakes coming into the market. Take it from someone who looks at vape gear price lists daily ... buyer beware.
Note that I am a retailer and sell the 3100mah and my opinion may therefore be biased, but I also use them .. extensively.
By the way, I am not implying any knowledge of fake VTC batteries being sold in South Africa at this time.
The point being though: advertising/labelling a cell as 20W when it realistically cant even handle half of that... thats straightup lying through one's teeth in my opinion. Not you, Efest.
I have a serious distrust in general towards a company that has been proven to be continuously deceptive.
Deceptive on purpose in their labeling, branding, and other aspects. Whether you consider it an outright lie, or just being a clever gray-area conman... you cannot deny that they are deceptive.
And to me that makes them, and by extension their products, untrustworthy.
I consider my safety priority #1.
And as I have indicated in another thread... "so far" is not only an invalid argument in my opinion, but a dangerous one.
I've been using the purple efest battery's for quite a few months now, 18650, 18500 and 18490. No problems with any coils, as far as normal vaping usage is concerned, and I don't foresee an issue.
I think it worth noting that none of these battery products from any manufacturer were designed to run at almost a dead short for extended periods. AFAIK.
I think it worth noting that none of these battery products from any manufacturer were designed to run at almost a dead short for extended periods. AFAIK.
I concede the point, the rating is ambiguous. I personally never realised this because I never assumed it was a continuous rating to start with but instead looked at the test data available to me, as quoted in the thread above, before making the decision to retail these batteries.
There is another problem though, a massive amount of hype is being created through this dampfakkus article, internationally. The article is being misquoted and the danger overstated. This hype is creating a massive demand for the 'only' battery that is perceived as safe namely the VTC. Counterfeiters, are always eager to encourage such sentiments, whilst eagerly supplying fakes to the unwary.
My point is this, whatever Efest's PR shortcomings are the 3100 mah is perfectly safe at 0.4 ohm and the 2500 mah is perfectly safe down to 0.2 ohm. Safety first!
There is another problem though, a massive amount of hype is being created through this dampfakkus article, internationally. The article is being misquoted and the danger overstated. This hype is creating a massive demand for the 'only' battery that is perceived as safe namely the VTC. Counterfeiters, are always eager to encourage such sentiments, whilst eagerly supplying fakes to the unwary.
My point is this, whatever Efest's PR shortcomings are the 3100 mah is perfectly safe at 0.4 ohm and the 2500 mah is perfectly safe down to 0.2 ohm. Safety first!
Most companies are guilty of the same thing.
Good points. Still some dodgy marketing on efest side anyway I use the 30A 2100's and they perform as advertised. Before the sony's I hammered a set of MNKE's properly and they still going strong. There some good batteries out there just need to find them.
All you need to do is choose the correct battery for your application.
I'm so glad someone else posted this first...lol. I was afraid if I said the above, people will crucify me. I have the same feeling about the Sony's as you. If I knew then what I know now, I would've bought 4 more Efest 2500mah 35A's instead of the sony's. They're good, but I think my Efest ones are better. Just my opinion. I do sub-ohm and the Efests performs beautifully!
Nobody is going to crucify you, geez.
But we might remind you about safety first and all that.
PS: like i said in another thread - "so far" is not a safety argument, its a gambling one.
And just to further confuse the issue, on this thread on Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/electronic_cigarette/comments/2cttd4/sony_vtc5_18650_notice_from_sony/ a guy claims to have received an email from Sony, stating that they don't even make 18650's anymore, and that any VTC's out there could be from one of a few manufacturer's or old stock.
Then on Youtube: these guys have a chat with someone who claims to have had a chat with Sony Exec's, who apparently stated that not only do Sony still make 18650's, but are ramping up production of them, and also have an interest in the vaping world. If you don't want to watch the full 2 hours, the Sony bit starts at about 1 hour, 5 minutes in.
18650's were originally sold to OEM manufacturer's to use in their high end battery packs for their cordless tools:
http://toolguyd.com/power-tool-brands-dont-make-their-own-batteries/
http://www.ebay.com.au/gds/COMPARING-BRANDS-OF-18V-POWER-TOOL-BATTERIES-/10000000072044555/g.html
They are also apparently used in the battery packs for Tesla electric sports cars, which explains the recent partnership between Tesla and Panasonic in building the new Giga battery factory in Reno, Nevada.
http://www.greenbiz.com/blog/2014/08/08/tesla-starts-building-gigafactory-panasonic.
Personally, I suspect Panasonic will be driving battery technology harder and faster than any other manufacturer from now on, and secondly, if you can afford it, buy shares in Tesla, but at the current price of more than R2500-00 a share, its going to be a little pricey.
TL;DR: Buy shares in Tesla.
Edit: Just saw in another thread that the Sony bit is known already.
Then on Youtube: these guys have a chat with someone who claims to have had a chat with Sony Exec's, who apparently stated that not only do Sony still make 18650's, but are ramping up production of them, and also have an interest in the vaping world. If you don't want to watch the full 2 hours, the Sony bit starts at about 1 hour, 5 minutes in.
18650's were originally sold to OEM manufacturer's to use in their high end battery packs for their cordless tools:
http://toolguyd.com/power-tool-brands-dont-make-their-own-batteries/
http://www.ebay.com.au/gds/COMPARING-BRANDS-OF-18V-POWER-TOOL-BATTERIES-/10000000072044555/g.html
They are also apparently used in the battery packs for Tesla electric sports cars, which explains the recent partnership between Tesla and Panasonic in building the new Giga battery factory in Reno, Nevada.
http://www.greenbiz.com/blog/2014/08/08/tesla-starts-building-gigafactory-panasonic.
Personally, I suspect Panasonic will be driving battery technology harder and faster than any other manufacturer from now on, and secondly, if you can afford it, buy shares in Tesla, but at the current price of more than R2500-00 a share, its going to be a little pricey.
TL;DR: Buy shares in Tesla.
Edit: Just saw in another thread that the Sony bit is known already.
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Yip, I do not like Efest as a company because they had to be painted into a corner before publicly admitting the 20A marking on the 3100 battery does not refer to Continuous Discharge Current. It is a well known fact that safety conscious vapers look at the Continuous Discharge Current to make their purchases. And I have yet to find a South African vendor pointing this out on their web site or even showing the real Continuous Discharge Current! Words are nice, actions speak much louder.
Ahem ..
Well done VapeClub, I have always been impressed, now I am doubly impressed!
True, we have done that as well. The only battery info we are correcting is one specific battery, the Purple Efest 26650, that has a Continuous Discharge rate of 32A, while the pulse rate is 64A. The rest of our batteries are correctly stipulated. Thanks for this awesome thread and the great safety info for the vaping public. Excellent reading.
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