Batteries Update

[johan]

Cool

Yeah, was not thinking of fake vs authentic, was more about to see if it is a re-wrapped LG or whatever - I seem to remember seeing a post to that effect somewhere here

Roger that

 

[Silver]

What I want to test (after 3 cycles of full charge and full discharge on a calibrated charger):

1. Voltage drop under various loads (0.5Ω up to 1.0Ω) - calibrated Volt meter across the terminals while applying a current sink (variable load) for 10 seconds on the battery under test and log the measured voltage in 1 second intervals.
2. Voltage drop graph - connect variable load at intervals of 10 seconds ON, 10 seconds OFF, until the battery under test reached 3.3V (under zero load). Logging Voltage drop as well as time and current.
3. Internal resistance if necessary
4. Maximum current - adjust variable load until Voltage drop to 2.5V or battery temperature rise more than 10°C

For my own curiosity I would like to know which battery will give me the longest vape time at a certain load with the least Voltage drop.

Anything else just let me know.

@johan, I think you hit the nail on the head big time with the following sentence:
"For my own curiosity I would like to know which battery will give me the longest vape time at a certain load with the least Voltage"

I do think that many vapers get confused (myself included) when it comes to batteries and their performance on their vaping gear. We are all striving to find out what is the best battery.

But I do think there are clearly two types of applications

- high current application - for those super sub-ohmers - e.g. going as low as 0.1 or 0.2 ohms - I am not one of those - but I assume the key here is to be able to safely draw massive current and deliver a monstrous vape. Vape time is probably less of a concern

- more typical mech mod vaping - around say 0.8 ohms to 1.2 ohms - Here the current draw is not nearly as much and for me at least the important thing is how long the battery will last. I am in this category and while I want a battery that delivers the required current, the focus for me is something that lasts long and is able to maintain its voltage for longer. Vape time is therefore very important.

It's easy to confuse the above two. And for this reason, I don't think there is a "best battery" overall. I am no battery expert but I suspect that the two areas above are also somewhat inversely related.

Instead, I think there is a best battery for each application. I will support your testing efforts to improve our understanding and better select the right battery for our application.

 

[Gazzacpt]

@johan I would love to see that test rig in action I vote for videos . Just posting graphs is not going to cut it I'm afraid.

 

[johan]

@johan I would love to see that test rig in action I vote for videos . Just posting graphs is not going to cut it I'm afraid.

Then someone needs to do the video thing while one of my techies or I do the testing, I am not going to try and record videos while doing the tests (which will take up to 4 hours per battery), sorry bud.

 

[Derick]

@johan, I think you hit the nail on the head big time with the following sentence:
"For my own curiosity I would like to know which battery will give me the longest vape time at a certain load with the least Voltage"

I do think that many vapers get confused (myself included) when it comes to batteries and their performance on their vaping gear. We are all striving to find out what is the best battery.

But I do think there are clearly two types of applications

- high current application - for those super sub-ohmers - e.g. going as low as 0.1 or 0.2 ohms - I am not one of those - but I assume the key here is to be able to safely draw massive current and deliver a monstrous vape. Vape time is probably less of a concern

- more typical mech mod vaping - around say 0.8 ohms to 1.2 ohms - Here the current draw is not nearly as much and for me at least the important thing is how long the battery will last. I am in this category and while I want a battery that delivers the required current, the focus for me is something that lasts long and is able to maintain its voltage for longer. Vape time is therefore very important.

It's easy to confuse the above two. And for this reason, I don't think there is a "best battery" overall. I am no battery expert but I suspect that the two areas above are also somewhat inversely related.


Instead, I think there is a best battery for each application. I will support your testing efforts to improve our understanding and better select the right battery for our application.

Definitely agree @Silver - but I think sub-Ohming can also be divided into two categories - I mean at 0.4Ohm (and 3.7V) you are not even drawing 10 Amps

So there is sub-Ohming and Serious Sub-Ohming

 

[Nimbus_Cloud]

@johan, I think you hit the nail on the head big time with the following sentence:
"For my own curiosity I would like to know which battery will give me the longest vape time at a certain load with the least Voltage"

I do think that many vapers get confused (myself included) when it comes to batteries and their performance on their vaping gear. We are all striving to find out what is the best battery.

But I do think there are clearly two types of applications

- high current application - for those super sub-ohmers - e.g. going as low as 0.1 or 0.2 ohms - I am not one of those - but I assume the key here is to be able to safely draw massive current and deliver a monstrous vape. Vape time is probably less of a concern

- more typical mech mod vaping - around say 0.8 ohms to 1.2 ohms - Here the current draw is not nearly as much and for me at least the important thing is how long the battery will last. I am in this category and while I want a battery that delivers the required current, the focus for me is something that lasts long and is able to maintain its voltage for longer. Vape time is therefore very important.

It's easy to confuse the above two. And for this reason, I don't think there is a "best battery" overall. I am no battery expert but I suspect that the two areas above are also somewhat inversely related.


Instead, I think there is a best battery for each application. I will support your testing efforts to improve our understanding and better select the right battery for our application.

I could not agree more. Just like with juice, everyone will prefer a different battery based on their usage. I know that at 0.15 My battery is not going to perform its best for longer than an hour or so as once it goes under 4v I don't see the point. Therefore I cycle between 4 VTC5's. It's a pian but my preferred method. If I was gaping at higher ohms and looking for a longer lasting Vape, I would probably go for the 3100mah efest as it has a higher capacity yet a lower Amp rating.

If there was one amazing battery that fitted every bodies needs perfectly it would probably have to be a 50000mah 200A VTC200 or something to only be invented in the future

Until then, We just have to try out different options and see what suits us best.

 

[Derick]

I could not agree more. Just like with juice, everyone will prefer a different battery based on their usage. I know that at 0.15 My battery is not going to perform its best for longer than an hour or so as once it goes under 4v I don't see the point. Therefore I cycle between 4 VTC5's. It's a pian but my preferred method. If I was gaping at higher ohms and looking for a longer lasting Vape, I would probably go for the 3100mah efest as it has a higher capacity yet a lower Amp rating.

If there was one amazing battery that fitted every bodies needs perfectly it would probably have to be a 50000mah 200A VTC200 or something to only be invented in the future

Until then, We just have to try out different options and see what suits us best.

This might be the answer one day
http://www.gizmag.com/dual-carbon-fast-charging-battery/32121/

 

[Riaz]

I could not agree more. Just like with juice, everyone will prefer a different battery based on their usage. I know that at 0.15 My battery is not going to perform its best for longer than an hour or so as once it goes under 4v I don't see the point. Therefore I cycle between 4 VTC5's. It's a pian but my preferred method. If I was gaping at higher ohms and looking for a longer lasting Vape, I would probably go for the 3100mah efest as it has a higher capacity yet a lower Amp rating.

If there was one amazing battery that fitted every bodies needs perfectly it would probably have to be a 50000mah 200A VTC200 or something to only be invented in the future

Until then, We just have to try out different options and see what suits us best.

hi @Nimbus_Cloud

do you mind posting a pic here of your 0.15 ohm coil

ive recently ventured into cloud blowing (alone at home LOL) and am looking at trying different coils.

 

[Silver]

Battery technology has not kept up the pace with other technological developments.

Let's hope that the big money going into electric cars (which require better battery technology) will fund the development in batteries such that we will get a battery that can keep us vaping for days on end

 

[zadiac]

Good news for all who do not like VTC5, Sony has informed us they do not want their batteries in vaping devices. Even our OEM supplier cannot get them for us anymore. YES they are authentic, so unfortunately we will not stock them anymore unless we can travel to Sony and talk them into giving us some.

It always amazes me how this known vapers like Riptrippers, etc etc always advocate VTC5 and then here on ecigssa, even though our batteries are the real deal, more knowledgeable folks here simply diss the battery no matter what. Anyways, well, your wishes have come true, no more VTC 5's.

Since the Google experts like to copy and paste from other forums and use other folks investigations to back their viewpoints, I thought I would paste a link to this review of the 'Top 10 High drain batteries', which both back previous arguments and disregard some aspects: FYI: http://ecigarettereviewed.com/top-10-high-drain-batteries-for-sub-ohm-vaping

My question is a rather simple one. If you are not happy with VTC5's. If you consider Efest batteries to be re wrapped . Then what batteries would you like to use in your vaping devices? It seems to me that every time we try to cater to this community, bringing in the batteries that you desire and speak so highly of, and the devices, when we get them, you go through tremendous lengths to disrespect the product that we went through tremendous pains to get the original products in?

Take this post with a pinch of salt. But we are vapers that use our batteries daily, we use every device, daily,we put them through rigorous tests. To simply take a picture of a Sony VTC 5 in a charger and state that it is a 'lemon' without first contacting the supplier and giving us a chance to either exchange or test the particular battery, is simply rude. We would gladly inspect and exchange if necessary. Maybe charge it at 1.0A and see if it charges faster. Also, was this it's first charge cycle?

Anyways, whatever. You let me know what batteries you would like in your vaping devices and we will get those, literally any batteries,w e can get, and only the ORIGINALS, we have the contacts.

No one attacked you or your shop @Chop007
They are simply disappointed with the performance of what they thought was a top notch battery. Myself included. I bought my VTC5's from you, but they don't perform as I expected and sold them to @Alex as he wanted them and took two Efests from him.
I have talked to other people not on this forum who also had the same experience with VTC5's and they did not buy them from you. So please don't think that we're attacking you, we're simply stating what we experienced

 

[Metal Liz]

 

[WHeunis]

@Rob Fisher and others:
I notice you all have the same batch batteries. (WB24F)
Could just be a bad batch.

Heck, even my VTC4 gives me 10pm-10pm + 20-30% remaining.
Was running 1.1 Ohm for a day or two, those gave 30% remaining. Now, at 0.8 I am getting 20% remaining at the end of the day.

My Evic Supreme literally USB charges from 20% to full in around 70 mins.
80-90 mins if i use it while it's charging...

I have not used the Efests, but also feel no need to do so, as this VTC4 does it's job exactly the way I want it to.


VapeMob: Sorry to hop a wagon here, but that is not imo how you handle a situation.
NOBODY blamed you or said anything negative about you. Just so happens that exchanging info such as where purchased, when purchased, etc can lead us to a conclusion.
That conclusion might just be that its a bad batch.

If you really want to help, your responses could be far less hostile.

 

[Chop007]

@Rob Fisher and others:
I notice you all have the same batch batteries. (WB24F)
Could just be a bad batch.

Heck, even my VTC4 gives me 10pm-10pm + 20-30% remaining.
Was running 1.1 Ohm for a day or two, those gave 30% remaining. Now, at 0.8 I am getting 20% remaining at the end of the day.

My Evic Supreme literally USB charges from 20% to full in around 70 mins.
80-90 mins if i use it while it's charging...

I have not used the Efests, but also feel no need to do so, as this VTC4 does it's job exactly the way I want it to.


VapeMob: Sorry to hop a wagon here, but that is not imo how you handle a situation.
NOBODY blamed you or said anything negative about you. Just so happens that exchanging info such as where purchased, when purchased, etc can lead us to a conclusion.
That conclusion might just be that its a bad batch.

If you really want to help, your responses could be far less hostile.

Thanks for the detailed info, that helps me a lot. I appreciate your explanation it makes loads of sense to us. Not to worry about the VTC5 we have removed them from the site and will not stock them again online. Any other battery that does not meet the forum's expectations and is considered to be a 'lemon', is branded as being 're wrapped' etc etc without detailed information and solid evidence regarding the suspect battery in question will also be removed. We DO NOT stock fake batteries and we go to extreme lengths and hard work to secure the originals, all our products are tested by vapers, for vapers. Far too much hearsay, gossip and false information can lead folks who want to enjoy their vaping safely to not going into mods at all.

What we do,we do for the community, for the love of vaping, not to be right nor king of the hill. We jump through major hoops to help every client, regardless of who they are or how they act. If anyone has an issue with one of our products they are more than welcome to contact us and we will go to the moon to satisfy their every need. This is not a hostile response, it is a response to protect vapers out there from false and sometimes biased information. It is extremely important to get the 'facts' straight before defaming another persons product. This is all we have to say on the subject. Upon solid test evidence we can take this further. We cannot and will not divulge our lucrative contacts within the vaping industry to satisfy those who have a preconceived negative connotation to a particular battery Thanks once again for your completely unbiased and balanced perspective. Even if a comment is negative, we always accept it when there is at least some constructive information as in your case.

 

[Silver]

@Chop007 I have a few questions for you - maybe you can clarify

1. Does this mean I cannot buy a VTC5 from you anymore? (i.e. via the website channel, since I am in JHB)

2. If this is the case, is the reason because of this thread?
Or are there other reasons? I must admit I am a bit confused because it was said before that Sony is disontinuing batteries for vaping- but your latest comment above says you won't sell them because they don't meet the "forum's expectations".

and then a follow up question - how does the "forum's expectations" get equated to a few people who have said they don't perform well - whereas a few others have said they perform very well? I would hardly say that this is the "forum's expectations".

Please can you help to clarify the situation for me.

 

[MarkK]

Sony will be introducing methods to make it harder for any one vape related to get their hands on the batteries.
Chop is saying that due to sony & due to the general opinion towards vtc5's they will not go through the effort of stocking them again.

Not worth the trouble in my eyes

 

[Gazzacpt]

@Chop007 I have a few questions for you - maybe you can clarify

1. Does this mean I cannot buy a VTC5 from you anymore? (i.e. via the website channel, since I am in JHB)

2. If this is the case, is the reason because of this thread?
Or are there other reasons? I must admit I am a bit confused because it was said before that Sony is disontinuing batteries for vaping- but your latest comment above says you won't sell them because they don't meet the "forum's expectations".

and then a follow up question - how does the "forum's expectations" get equated to a few people who have said they don't perform well - whereas a few others have said they perform very well? I would hardly say that this is the "forum's expectations".

Please can you help to clarify the situation for me.

I to am confused.

A few people said that they not entirely sold on the VTC5 with regards to their experience and the batteries get pulled for sale???
My VTC5's perform very very well. They are the only batteries I use for my silly builds.
If you going to stand behind your product then please do so but this is an odd response saying we have the product its good but we not going to sell it to you.

It does not make sense.

 

[Nimbus_Cloud]

@Silver, I can only comment on a few of the points. But to clarify: At the moment we have 4 VTC5's left in stock, these are only available in store as the store runs as a seperate entity as far as stock is concerned. This is procedure with all of our products. They have been marked out of stock for awhile now, before this thread was revived, as the allocation to online was sold out. The reasoning behind possibly not stocking them in future is because if we were to do so, it would mean physically sending a representative to Sony and discussing with them the possibility of allowing us to continue these sales according to their safety rules etc. If vapers are unhappy with the quality of the batteries (which according to this thread, is a fair amount of people), then it would not be worthwhile or financially wise to go to those methods to stock this product.

Them not being available online is in no way an attack on, or furthermore "punishment" for people located elsewhere, but merely procedure that has to be followed for all stock once it has been allocated. In certain cases we can attempt to make exceptions where this happens but with the batteries we are unable to do this at the moment according to management. If we see that people still want and are really needing Sony batteries, we will do our absolute best to provide them, as we have always done. We do our best to provide the best products and ensure we cater to everybodies needs.

I hope this helps to clarify.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Nimbus_Cloud]

@Gazzacpt please see above


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Silver]

@Silver, I can only comment on a few of the points. But to clarify: At the moment we have 4 VTC5's left in stock, these are only available in store as the store runs as a seperate entity as far as stock is concerned. This is procedure with all of our products. They have been marked out of stock for awhile now, before this thread was revived, as the allocation to online was sold out. The reasoning behind possibly not stocking them in future is because if we were to do so, it would mean physically sending a representative to Sony and discussing with them the possibility of allowing us to continue these sales according to their safety rules etc. If vapers are unhappy with the quality of the batteries (which according to this thread, is a fair amount of people), then it would not be worthwhile or financially wise to go to those methods to stock this product.

Them not being available online is in no way an attack on, or furthermore "punishment" for people located elsewhere, but merely procedure that has to be followed for all stock once it has been allocated. In certain cases we can attempt to make exceptions where this happens but with the batteries we are unable to do this at the moment according to management. If we see that people still want and are really needing Sony batteries, we will do our absolute best to provide them, as we have always done. We do our best to provide the best products and ensure we cater to everybodies needs.

I hope this helps to clarify.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ok thanks for the clarification. That helps for me to understand.

I will take it then that it is primarily a Sony issue - and secondly that a few members here have expressed dissatisfaction.

 

[Andre]

My 2 cents from up far in the snow clad mountains in Georgia. I have VTC5s, all acquired from VAPEMOB. And I love them green little monsters. In my totally unscientific opinion they far outperform my Efest 2500s, also bought from VAPEMOB. But know this - the responses from @Chop007 are not endearing at all and can, in my more informed opinion, only be damaging to the reseller in question.

 

[Paulie]

Just a question ere but apparently vtc4/5 were made for older generations of laptop battery packs? Hmmm maby i might try buy a laptop at cash converter and strip I think @devdev has a old sony laptop laying around hmm lol

 

[Paulie]

Ow sorry was meant to say i have a vapemob sony vtc 5 and i do get better life from my efests however we used mine at 0.4 -0.2 ohm coils (cloud blowing comp testing) for 1 week and that puppy never got hot!

 

[WHeunis]

Just a question ere but apparently vtc4/5 were made for older generations of laptop battery packs? Hmmm maby i might try buy a laptop at cash converter and strip I think @devdev has a old sony laptop laying around hmm lol

Only expensive battery packs used the VTC4/5's.
Most packs do use Sony cells, but mostly ICR.

Even if you do get some good batteries out of those packs though, you gotta realize that battery packs like those live HORRIBLE lives.
Especially laptop batteries go through the kind of abuse that any battery expert would tell you, is borderline criminal.

Being so close to that amount of heat is not good for the life of a battery, and anything you get out of there is gonna be near useless.

 

[Chop007]

I would personally like to give my apologies to @Rob Fisher for jumping on his post and using it as a stepping stone for many uninformed posts about VapeMOB products. I consider you to be a good friend, a true gentleman, a brilliant mellow fisherman and I love and respect you greatly. My attack on your post was uncalled for and I take full unconditional responsibility for it. Been under loads of pressure lately and that is not an excuse for my angry comments. I am more used to sailing the oceans than dealing with human beings or, more to the point, characters of human beings in cyberspace on a forum. So many things can get said and be misconstrued, it is a literal minefield.

I do however apologize from the bottom of my heart and will make up for it in any way I possibly can. I am going to take a break from this forum for a while and gather my composure. Please accept my sincere apologies for my over the top comments. You as always have my greatest respect and admiration, sorry for taking it all out on you.

 

[Rob Fisher]

Apology graciously accepted @Chop007! I know how heated discussions can be on the forums sometimes and how we try to remain loyal to our businesses and products. I think where there is passion there is always bound to be the odd small flame war... and passion is what it's all about.