Fair enough, but kids don't typically play with Li-ion batteries
I agree with you, though.
Battery Venting and Exploding
- Thread starter Rob Fisher
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I agree with you, though.
They don't want to be associated with vaping. If they tweaked their designs, made tougher wraps, etc, it would be a tacit admission on their part that they now accept that their batteries can be and are used for vaping. That, in turn, opens them up to litigation if the battery causes a fire or explosion. It also puts them into the politically sensitive sphere of being seen to support continued nicotine addiction. By distancing themselves from vaping, and insisting that their batteries should not be used for vaping, they cannot be held liable when things go wrong. It's a 'best of both worlds' scenario for them. They continue to profit from vaping driving sales of their batteries - but without the downside of having to take accountability for their product.
It's a tricky situation because the only way to balance the supplier/customer relationship is through market forces. If the vaping industry went to LG en masse and told them look, improve your batteries or we won't use them and you'll lose our business, then they'd jump into action. But we don't have that leverage for several reasons:
1) The future of vaping is uncertain. It stands to be regulated heavily, which might mandate a move towards closed systems (cigalikes) rather than the open-system mods and tanks that we use. No battery manufacturer is going to retool and redesign their batteries in an uncertain market where open systems could be banned within a year. At the very least, they will wait until regulation is decided and the industry settled.
2) They have us over a barrel. We need high drain batteries, only a handful of giant companies manufacture them, and none of them needs our business. Their primary customer is the electric car market. We get the 'reject' 18650 batteries which aren't A-bin batteries and thus can't go to the car market. So we are not top of their business priorities by any means.
3) The more fuss we kick up about it, the more negative publicity it brings to vaping. So the vaping industry is unlikely to make a stink about this, especially in the prevailing climate of vaping being under close scrutiny by regulators.
4) Vapers will continue to use their batteries anyway, regardless of industry pressure. So what if vaping vendors aren't allowed to stock 18650s? I'll just buy from a generic battery supplier, there are many. So LG know they won't lose our business unless a dedicated vaping battery manufacturer emerges who can produce high drain batteries at the same cost. That seems highly unlikely, given the economies of scale that LG and other giants can leverage. A dedicated specialised vaping battery (not used in other sectors) is likely to be way more expensive than a generic 18650.
I think the best solution lies in a third party provider who buys up batteries from the giants, rewraps and improves them before selling on to the vaping public - and then takes accountability for the product too. In other words, even if it's an LG battery under the wrap, the third party provider takes the rap if it explodes. Whether such a provider will emerge is uncertain. I think there is a market, though. If a rewrapper sold batteries with much more robust wraps which don't tear through handling, but which cost a few bucks more, I'd buy them. I'm a cheap-arse but safety is one area I'm willing to spend on. The peace of mind of knowing that batteries are safer, and won't require periodic rewrapping, is worth a slightly higher retail price imo.
Odd that protection circuits haven't found their way into vaping batteries already, as found in 18650 batteries intended for torches . I imagine its just a re-settable fuse of some sort. That will solve the 'fire in the pocket', 'stuck fire button' scenarios as least.
Inserting batteries upside down in mechs when the cover is torn .. well maybe better covers will do the job but very few materials are indestructible.
Lets not beat around the bush, the common theme here - mechs.
Bigger problem in my opinion - fake batteries.
Inserting batteries upside down in mechs when the cover is torn .. well maybe better covers will do the job but very few materials are indestructible.
Lets not beat around the bush, the common theme here - mechs.
Bigger problem in my opinion - fake batteries.
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So what happen if you run a battery to flat? Will it explode?
Reason why I ask. I have this headlamp that I use for fishing. Now this is a meneer se headlamp. I can see if the guy fishing on the other side of the dam, brushed his teeth. It takes two 18650 batteries and is led.
It came with two chinatown 18650 batteries, but they last like 15min on full bright. So I want to put some authentic vape batteries is.
The problem is that with these led lights they normally go off only when battery is really drained.
The bigger problem is the two batteries sit on the strap at the back of me head.
Never had a problem with the chinatown batts, run them till light goes dead and then in charger they say 0% when put in.
Reason why I ask. I have this headlamp that I use for fishing. Now this is a meneer se headlamp. I can see if the guy fishing on the other side of the dam, brushed his teeth. It takes two 18650 batteries and is led.
It came with two chinatown 18650 batteries, but they last like 15min on full bright. So I want to put some authentic vape batteries is.
The problem is that with these led lights they normally go off only when battery is really drained.
The bigger problem is the two batteries sit on the strap at the back of me head.
Never had a problem with the chinatown batts, run them till light goes dead and then in charger they say 0% when put in.
As far as I'm aware the batteries wont vent because of running them flat you will just deteriorate their life span.
Batteries can vent from pushing the amps over what the specified battery limit is or the negative of a torn battery wrap touching on the positive of a housing creating a short.
Those chinatown batteries probably has a higher mAh, but far lower Amp rating, than your vape batteries. So, chances are the vape batteries will give you even less than those 15 minutes. Do not think they will explode, but if the headlamp really drains them fully (which I doubt) you might have problems getting them to recharge.
I McGyvered 2 vape batteries into a solar powered LED spotlight without any problems.
Yes I see they have 4800mah, but no amp rating
Funny to see them in my Golisi charger that show percentage. Put them in and they on 0%, then the percentage climbs faster than a stopwatch, within minute or two its at 98% and then a few minutes later its full charge
sounds like a faulty battery, even if you are charging them at 2 amp it shouldn't take couple of minute.
My wife has used the cheap Chinese batteries in her seriously powerful head torch for over three years without any problems.
They are super cheap. Under R20.
She is a fitness nut and does Bootcamp four days a week. In winter (early Class) they are used for over an hour at least four times a week.
They are great for low Amp usage. Do not use for vaping !!!
They are super cheap. Under R20.
She is a fitness nut and does Bootcamp four days a week. In winter (early Class) they are used for over an hour at least four times a week.
They are great for low Amp usage. Do not use for vaping !!!
My wife has used the cheap Chinese batteries in her seriously powerful head torch for over three years without any problems.
They are super cheap. Under R20.
She is a fitness nut and does Bootcamp four days a week. In winter (early Class) they are used for over an hour at least four times a week.
They are great for low Amp usage. Do not use for vaping !!!
Thats the same batteries I have. Maybe my lamp is to strong. It maybe will last an hour, but in 10-15 the light is just half bright
I checked with my boss. She confirms that she gets about an hour on full power. The torch has a Cree T6 LED. really bright.
The batteries are so cheap you can take a box full of them with you when you do pap gooing.
Hi, Just check the 18650s supplied to see if they have circuitry strapped onto one end. Led torches don't normally have safety circuitry built in. Which is why its piggy backed onto the supplied batteries normally. The piggy backed circuitry does what a mod would. Stops them from running below a certain voltage and stops over draw.
The extremely high power LEDs drain batteries quickly. But the LED itself would get extremely hot. I assume the ones you are using aren't those. So the battery life of 15mins doesn't sound right. Sounds like the capacity of the batteries has been compromised over time due to overdraining them. Or are fake amounts on the actual battery.
LEDs need a certain amount of power running through them to work. However it is normally a power range. So that's why the LED will dim over time. Once it reaches its limit. It will no longer draw power from the battery and turn off as stated. The question is what is that number and is it below the safety of 3.2 volts or the 2.8 volts max suggested drop on an 18650.
The 18650 itself won't explode from over draining, but more from over the amp limit. Over amp draw makes the batteries very hot and that's when thermal run away happens and they explode. The same goes for batteries which have been over drained numerous times and then charged. Over draining the battery creates crystals in the battery which could piece the internal insulation (especially when charging it again - that's when they get hot). When there is no internal insulation this will be a short circuit and thermal run away will occur. So if they get hot to the touch when charging or being used stop what you are doing immediately. Once it hits a certain temp it will be game over.
Ok so if it lasts an hour, that sounds more likely to be correct.
You won't get full brightness for long as there is power drop off on the battery as it runs down. Better batteries won't power drop off as fast. However I wouldn't expect it to be much longer than 15mins. Maybe an extra 5 mins max. You won't ever get full brightness for an hour.
As I mentioned above LED's can work within a power range. So full power is brighter but medium power is dimmer. Lower power can't function.
Example of attached circuitry below.
Thanks, yes I see the chinamall batteries that came with the light says short circut and over current protection. So maybe they have a board inside
What headlamp do you have?
I use samsung NCR 18650 for my headlamps and the headlamps start to flash before the batteries need a recharge. Like a low voltage warning. I get a decent 8 hours use on a set of 2 18650s.
@Christos - what headlamp have you got?
My little LED headlamp thingie you strap on your head is from Led Lenser - but it takes those AAA batteries. Not 18650s. Would love one that could take 18650s
That's a solid LED you are running there. For 2x 18650s an hour is pretty decent runtime. An LED that size with the output described, will most definitely be power hungry.
Please be careful. As far as I know those batteries don't have circuit protection. Unless they were added afterwards.
The fact that it flashes shows you are running the battery quite low without circuit protection (Or at least no circuitry which provides constant power output - Very few LED torches have that as standard built in). I don't want you to run the risk of over discharging and causing premature battery wear and possible thermal runaway when charging again.
Only way to truly find out is research the LED module and see what it can function at. Then see if it's within the acceptable battery limits. Or you have a decent battery charger which shows the voltages. Or use a voltmeter to read the batteries. Nobody wants something bad to happen. So rather be safe than sorry.
Only way you can run 8 hours with 2x 18650s at the same time is the LED module power usage and output is far lower than that of @Jean claude Vaaldamme. Even over discharging the batteries on his unit would not get you to 8 hours.
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My batteries discharged are at 3.1v at their worst.
I generally charge them before the headlamp even let's me know they are flat. Roughly T about 3.6v.
You are correct the batteries are not protected.
The combined mah is about 7400mah and the headlamp is hardly ever run at its highest setting. For decent light I have a 2000 lumen fenix that I use with protected 26650 batteries.
@Silver it's a led lenser H14 R.2.
Takss 4x AA's or 2 x 18650s
Great. Glad to hear you are responsible and know what you are doing. Nobody wants an unfortunate accident to happen.
All good!
I have a vast collection of lipo batteries and many years of use and logs for each battery so battery safety is very high on my list.
I have had a 2 cell lipo spontaneously combust in storage so proper storage is also important to me.
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