Batts - How low to go, and when to throw?

[KB_314]

I've recently purchased a couple of new BF atties and have been enjoying builds that are a little lower in resistence than I normally go for.

Using Reo's (mech), I've allowed the batteries to drop in voltage well below the recommended 3.6v.
Normally, I know exactly when to swap batteries out but this has taken a little getting used to.

Question is, at what point should one chuck the battery? I popped an 18650 into the charger and was a little horrified to see it was down to 3.1v And once or twice I was at 3.3v. Presumably I have damaged the batteries or at least shortened the lifespan, but are they still safe to use in mechs?

 

[stevie g]

Hunt for the spec sheet it will tell you lower end discharge.

Lots of batteries are around 2.8v and some down to 2.5v.

 

[Igno]

I recently had an Efest battery vent inside my X Cube 2 after about a year and 3 months usage, so I would say don't use longer than a year max. There were no shorts and not even close to max draw (normally 12 amps on a 20 amp battery) of any sort as I am quite clued up with battery safety etc. So IMO, don't use longer than a year, and I'm probably going to get a lot of flack for this, but stay away from Efest.

 

[SAVaper]

I would also like to see what the general consensus would be.

 

[KB_314]

Ok, so being 25r's, it seems they can handle down to 2.5v - at least as far as the manufacturers recommendation.
Most of the popular batteries amongst vapers seem to be the same from what I could see. Although for VTC5's and 6's the manufacturer reckons 2v.

 

[KB_314]

I recently had an Efest battery vent inside my X Cube 2 after about a year and 3 months usage, so I would say don't use longer than a year max. There were no shorts and not even close to max draw (normally 12 amps on a 20 amp battery) of any sort as I am quite clued up with battery safety etc. So IMO, don't use longer than a year, and I'm probably going to get a lot of flack for this, but stay away from Efest.

@Igno from what I've read, the number of cycles is the best way to describe the age of a battery - a year and a half is a lot though if you used them regularly. A year seems like solid advice! And regarding efests, I know there was a very dodgy couple of batches according to mooch, so maybe you got some of those. For a few reasons, I too stay away from efest 18650's, other than the old 2500mah ones but those are no longer in production.

 

[Igno]

According to my knowledge, if a battery is rated at 3.7 volts as most 18650's we use are, and they're fully charged at 4.2 volts, you take the 0.5 volts and work according to that rating. So from 3.7 - 4.2 is 0.5 volts, now take the rating which is 3.7 volt and minus 0.5 volts and you get 3.2, that's my minimum discharge always and for battery life and safety I won't go below that. At 2.5 volts your battery will have taken too much and it will reduce your battery life severely even though it will still be usable. Just my 2 cents

 

[SAVaper]

@Igno from what I've read, the number of cycles is the best way to describe the age of a battery - a year and a half is a lot though if you used them regularly. A year seems like solid advice! And regarding efests, I know there was a very dodgy couple of batches according to mooch, so maybe you got some of those. For a few reasons, I too stay away from efest 18650's, other than the old 2500mah ones but those are no longer in production.

So as far as cycles go, how many cycles would be recommended?
I have 2 batteries that I alternate and one lasts about a day. So 180/190 odd cycles per year each. Is that a lot?

 

[KB_314]

So as far as cycles go, how many cycles would be recommended?
I have 2 batteries that I alternate and one lasts about a day. So 180/190 odd cycles per year each. Is that a lot?

Doesn't sound excessive - most reckon 300 cycles, but I think 250 would be reasonable before needing to replace.

 

[Igno]

So as far as cycles go, how many cycles would be recommended?
I have 2 batteries that I alternate and one lasts about a day. So 180/190 odd cycles per year each. Is that a lot?

I'd say for the big 3 (Samsung, LG and Sony), cycles are normally at 200 - 250. So it seems that you'll be good for a year @SAVaper , some manufacturers claim up to 500 cycles but IMO that's looking for trouble. I also make sure that my batteries gets a re-wrap if the wrap starts getting damaged.

 

[SAVaper]

Ok. Sounds good.

 

[Blu_Marlin]

I've recently purchased a couple of new BF atties and have been enjoying builds that are a little lower in resistence than I normally go for.

Using Reo's (mech), I've allowed the batteries to drop in voltage well below the recommended 3.6v.
Normally, I know exactly when to swap batteries out but this has taken a little getting used to.

Question is, at what point should one chuck the battery? I popped an 18650 into the charger and was a little horrified to see it was down to 3.1v And once or twice I was at 3.3v. Presumably I have damaged the batteries or at least shortened the lifespan, but are they still safe to use in mechs?

As @Sprint said best to check the spec sheet. Most of the LiON cells have a minimum cut off voltage of 2.5V. I used to vape down to 3.6/3.7V but since using SS316 I go down to 3/3.1V as you dont notice the drop of in flavor and clouds. There is no damage to the battery at that voltage however the number of charge cycles decrease when going that low (depth of discharge).

Until recently I’ve only used mechs (REOs) and the only time I`ve had a problem was with an EFEST. It vented for no apparent reason. Not an expolsive vent but the electrolyte leaked. I had just started using mechs at that time and threw away the other three EFESTs that I had. They were in use for about two months and were never discharged below 3.6V. Since then I’ve only used LGHG2, Samsung Q30, Sony VTC4/5 and recently the VTC6 with no problems.I`ve attached the spec sheet of the VTC5. This is the battery I use most often.

 

[RichJB]

Daniel vents even more than his Efest did:



Although he does note that he tested more Efests afterwards and it seemed to be an isolated problem.

 

[Silver]

I've recently purchased a couple of new BF atties and have been enjoying builds that are a little lower in resistence than I normally go for.

Using Reo's (mech), I've allowed the batteries to drop in voltage well below the recommended 3.6v.
Normally, I know exactly when to swap batteries out but this has taken a little getting used to.

Question is, at what point should one chuck the battery? I popped an 18650 into the charger and was a little horrified to see it was down to 3.1v And once or twice I was at 3.3v. Presumably I have damaged the batteries or at least shortened the lifespan, but are they still safe to use in mechs?

Hi @KB_314
I wouldnt worry about 3.3 or 3.1V. That has occasionally happened to me on various batteries and mods and they are still working fine after being charged.

My only question is what kind of vape are you getting on the Reo down at 3.1V. You probably sucking the last few fumes out of it. Below 3.6V on my setups yields a very weak vape on my batteries.

 

[Blu_Marlin]

Doesn't sound excessive - most reckon 300 cycles, but I think 250 would be reasonable before needing to replace.

I'd say for the big 3 (Samsung, LG and Sony), cycles are normally at 200 - 250. So it seems that you'll be good for a year @SAVaper , some manufacturers claim up to 500 cycles but IMO that's looking for trouble. I also make sure that my batteries gets a re-wrap if the wrap starts getting damaged.

The charge cycles will depend on how low you discharge your battery. 200 to 300 cycles is doable as we don’t discharge down to 2.5V which is what the manufacture usually discharges to when doing tests. LiON chemistry batteries are volatile batteries. That’s one of the reasons they work well for vaping. They can provide the amperage required to drive our low ohm coil builds with a decent size and capacity. You should be comfortable, with yourself, when deciding when to use or chuck a battery.

I don’t keep track of the number of charge cycles on my batteries. I use the 5% rule. If the battery loses more than 5% of it’s voltage fully charged voltage (0.21V) after 24 hours then it becomes my flashlight battery. Some sites will recommend a greater percentage but I`m comfortable with 5%. I test my batteries regularly with a good multimeter so I’m confident that when I put in a battery it will not give me problems. If it gets to 10% self discharge over 24 hours then it goes into the recycle bin at my Woolies.

I bought a ton of clear battery wraps from FT last year and I wrap the battery in the clear wrap before I start using it. It effectly is double wrapped. It`s usually the clear wrap that gets damaged first and when this happens I just remove the clear wrap and rewrap with another clear wrap. This might not work with certain mods as the space is limited but on my REOs it`s not a problem.

 

[Blu_Marlin]

Hi @KB_314
I wouldnt worry about 3.3 or 3.1V. That has occasionally happened to me on various batteries and mods and they are still working fine after being charged.

My only question is what kind of vape are you getting on the Reo down at 3.1V. You probably sucking the last few fumes out of it. Below 3.6V on my setups yields a very weak vape on my batteries.

Using Kanthal, like I do on some of my setups at 3.6V it`s definitely noticeable. However recently on the OL16 with the 8 wrap SS316L 2.5mm ID which comes out at 0.24ohm, cold, for dual coils I tend to get closer to 3.1/3.2V before I notice and need to change batteries.

 

[Silver]

Using Kanthal, like I do on some of my setups at 3.6V it`s definitely noticeable. However recently on the OL16 with the 8 wrap SS316L 2.5mm ID which comes out at 0.24ohm, cold, for dual coils I tend to get closer to 3.1/3.2V before I notice and need to change batteries.

Thanks @Blu_Marlin - i need to try that!
More battery life!!
I need to try the SS again!

 

[PsyCLown]

Can't you use a battery charger to check the internal resistance or charge capacity and use this to tell you whether the battery is nearing the end of its life?

I like the drop in voltage over a 24 hour period. That is easy to check.

 

[Blu_Marlin]

Can't you use a battery charger to check the internal resistance or charge capacity and use this to tell you whether the battery is nearing the end of its life?

I like the drop in voltage over a 24 hour period. That is easy to check.

I dont think that there`s anything wrong with using a charger to check the voltage. A good charger shoud have an accuracy of +/- 1% of 4.2V to prevent over charging of the battery. I also have an Xtra VC4 charger that I use to check battery capacity from time to time. Remember though that in the first 24 hours after a charge cycle the battery will loose round about 1% of its charge voltage due to self discharge. So dont be alarmed if you see the display showing 4.15 to 4.17 volts after 24 hours. I also charge my batteries on the lowest charge available to extend battery life. Usually 150mA per bay on my 4 bay charger. It takes a while to charge a 2600-3000 mAH battery though.

 

[KB_314]

Thanks @Blu_Marlin - i need to try that!
More battery life!!
I need to try the SS again!

Yep, pretty much as @Blu_Marlin put it - I'm using the same build on the same atty, coming in at 0.25ohms. Beautiful vape. But 3.2/3.3 feels like 3.6v on my Cyclone. I must admit, 3.1v today was definitely a lazy vape but I was on a construction site with batteries quite a walk away and kept pulling on the Reo and then remembering the battery was flat

 

[SAVaper]

Thanks all. This is very use full information.

 

[Stosta]

The charge cycles will depend on how low you discharge your battery. 200 to 300 cycles is doable as we don’t discharge down to 2.5V which is what the manufacture usually discharges to when doing tests. LiON chemistry batteries are volatile batteries. That’s one of the reasons they work well for vaping. They can provide the amperage required to drive our low ohm coil builds with a decent size and capacity. You should be comfortable, with yourself, when deciding when to use or chuck a battery.

I don’t keep track of the number of charge cycles on my batteries. I use the 5% rule. If the battery loses more than 5% of it’s voltage fully charged voltage (0.21V) after 24 hours then it becomes my flashlight battery. Some sites will recommend a greater percentage but I`m comfortable with 5%. I test my batteries regularly with a good multimeter so I’m confident that when I put in a battery it will not give me problems. If it gets to 10% self discharge over 24 hours then it goes into the recycle bin at my Woolies.

I bought a ton of clear battery wraps from FT last year and I wrap the battery in the clear wrap before I start using it. It effectly is double wrapped. It`s usually the clear wrap that gets damaged first and when this happens I just remove the clear wrap and rewrap with another clear wrap. This might not work with certain mods as the space is limited but on my REOs it`s not a problem.

^This is what I've been looking for! Thank you very much sir. I'm closing in on a year soon and have been wondering when the dreaded battery-replacement saga will begin.

 

[Silver]

The charge cycles will depend on how low you discharge your battery. 200 to 300 cycles is doable as we don’t discharge down to 2.5V which is what the manufacture usually discharges to when doing tests. LiON chemistry batteries are volatile batteries. That’s one of the reasons they work well for vaping. They can provide the amperage required to drive our low ohm coil builds with a decent size and capacity. You should be comfortable, with yourself, when deciding when to use or chuck a battery.

I don’t keep track of the number of charge cycles on my batteries. I use the 5% rule. If the battery loses more than 5% of it’s voltage fully charged voltage (0.21V) after 24 hours then it becomes my flashlight battery. Some sites will recommend a greater percentage but I`m comfortable with 5%. I test my batteries regularly with a good multimeter so I’m confident that when I put in a battery it will not give me problems. If it gets to 10% self discharge over 24 hours then it goes into the recycle bin at my Woolies.

I bought a ton of clear battery wraps from FT last year and I wrap the battery in the clear wrap before I start using it. It effectly is double wrapped. It`s usually the clear wrap that gets damaged first and when this happens I just remove the clear wrap and rewrap with another clear wrap. This might not work with certain mods as the space is limited but on my REOs it`s not a problem.

I like your 24 hour discharge approach @Blu_Marlin

I have one of those "doo hickeys" i got from ohm @johan and its still going strong. I think its pretty accurate. Fully charged batts in my vape setup usually sit for a few days before being used. What I noticed is that the Samsung "blue smurfs" discharged slightly more than the older Efests. After being fully charged to around 4.21V or 4.20V and sitting for a few days, the Samsungs would be like 4.17V whereas the Efests would stay at 4.20V (using the same doohickey) Always found that strange because the Samsungs were fairly new and the Efests about a year old with (I estimate) about 100 cycles in the Reos each.

I assume a drop to 4.17V is nothing to be concerned about? They still seem to perform very well.

I must check some of my brown LG ones....

 

[Vape Starter]

Hi Guys here is a silly question, I dropped my vape this morning... the battery cover came off but battery did not come out. Battery looks fine, should I be worried or am I just being paranoid?
Also where do we safely dispose of our batteries (18650)? I'm still fine now but don't want to throw them into a recycling battery bin if its not the right thing to do.

 

[Andre]

Hi Guys here is a silly question, I dropped my vape this morning... the battery cover came off but battery did not come out. Battery looks fine, should I be worried or am I just being paranoid?
Also where do we safely dispose of our batteries (18650)? I'm still fine now but don't want to throw them into a recycling battery bin if its not the right thing to do.

If you drop a battery and it gets damaged, it will usually not work at all. I have used dropped batteries before without ill effect, but the choice will always be yours. The big grocery retailers usually have a box for battery recycling - it is fine to use those, but do wrap the battery in plastic, like cling wrap.