Concentrates and Price

playa4life

playa4life

Experienced Vaper
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I've done a quick search on some of the supplier's sites and noticed that the various brands prices differs considerably.
Here's an example taken off one site:

The Flavor Apprentice: R40-R50
Capella: R45-R65
Flavour Art: R60
Flavorah: R75-R130
Flavor West: R40-R50
Inawera: R50-R60
Loco Flavours: R40
Lorann: R40
Nature's Flavors: R65
Real Flavors: R35-R45
Jungle Flavors: R60

These are all for 10ml concentrates. My question is, does the price difference per brand, directly correlate to the quality of the juice? Please share your experiences. For starters, I'm looking at getting:

500ml PG
500ml VG
100ml Nic
3 x 10ml Concentrates
A few mixing bottles
Nitrile Gloves

So, I'm basically looking at spending money once and getting a good enough product with my "Starter Kit" to keep me going for a month or so. I plan on adding x3 concentrates every month in order to build a proper inventory. I'm just looking at mixing for myself and my brother. I dont plan on getting rich off this.
I've watched some very informative YouTube videos and feel that I should be able to pull off a decent first attempt with a 3 flavour mix.

TIA
 
Well, there are a few factors:

- Rarity / availability
- Novelty
- Quality (that is rather subjective, to be honest)
- Mixing quantity (for instance, TFA requires more concentrate than it's FA counterparts, etc)

FA's slightly higher price is justified by the very low quantities you need in your mixes.
I don't know what Flavorah is smoking, though.
 
Are you saying that some of the concentrates are more concentated than others?
To me, this speaks to a better quality concentrate which would, in my book, justify the steeper price.
 
playa4life said:
Are you saying that some of the concentrates are more concentated than others?
To me, this speaks to a better quality concentrate which would, in my book, justify the steeper price.
Click to expand...
higher concentration flavor concentrate is not a reflection of quality rather it hasn't been diluted down.

It's also harder to work with highly concentrated flavors as the "sweet spot" needs more precise measurements.

Molecular flavor compounds come from only a few giant raw materials flavorant manufacturers, then the smaller companies like FA and Capellas put their own concoction together using the flavor molecules supplied by one of the larger companies.
 
It's not the concentration of the flavour that determines the quality. There are some very concentrated flavours (Inw Wild Strawberry for eg) which are not very popular or highly rated. And some quite weak flavours like TFA Peanut Butter which are universally popular. The concentration does however determine the value. Flv Rich Cinnamon is R75 a bottle. But seeing as it is widely considered the very best cinnamon, and requires only a few drops per 30ml of juice, it gives outstanding value.

In selecting concentrates, I wouldn't go by brand. Instead, go by "best of breed". Each brand has its hits and misses. There are some very good cheap flavours and some very nasty expensive ones. Over time and by reading up on many recipes and watching podcasts, etc, you will develop a feel for which brand is highest rated for each profile. But that doesn't help you now. If you want to give us an idea of what flavours you're interested in getting first, I'm sure people will offer opinions on which brands to go for.
 
playa4life said:
To me, this speaks to a better quality concentrate which would, in my book, justify the steeper price.
Click to expand...
Not at all. It is in fact easier to mix if it's more diluted, and has zero bearing on the quality.

EDIT: Sorry, saw the posters above me just said the same thing.
 
I'll post my 3 flavour mix I plan on getting along with what the mixer suggests.
I need to find the video again though.
There was a strawberry; a bavarian cream and a Graham Cracker I think. I'll find it and post it up later in its entirety according to the mixer/author.
 
Those are three solid flavours to start with, you will get a lot of mileage from them. You can go all TFA too: Strawberry (or Ripe), Bav and Graham Cracker Clear. All three are well liked and used in bazillions of recipes.

For the Bav, JF is highly acclaimed and FW is quite popular too. For the Grahams, Cap and FW are viable too although TFA is the most popular. For the strawbs, the sky is the limit. Other than the two TFA, you could go Cap Sweet, JF Sweet, Inw Shisha or even FA Red Touch and not go wrong on any of them. Flv Alpine is highly rated but maybe a bit concentrated for what you need right now. A dilution is recommended for that.
 
playa4life said:
I'll post my 3 flavour mix I plan on getting along with what the mixer suggests.
I need to find the video again though.
There was a strawberry; a bavarian cream and a Graham Cracker I think. I'll find it and post it up later in its entirety according to the mixer/author.
Click to expand...

4% cap sweet strawberry
2.5% tfa bavarian cream
2% tfa Graham cracker

I'd vape that.
 
Here's what I plan on mixing using the standard 70/30 PG/VG mix with 3mg nic.
Strawberry Cream
TFA Strawberry Ripe - 5%
TFA Bavarian Cream - 3%
TFA Graham Cracker Clear - 2%

The original author has been through a few versions of this one but has ended up with this final mix. Seems simple enough as a first mix recipe.
 
playa4life said:
Here's what I plan on mixing using the standard 70/30 PG/VG mix with 3mg nic.
Strawberry Cream
TFA Strawberry Ripe - 5%
TFA Bavarian Cream - 3%
TFA Graham Cracker Clear - 2%

The original author has been through a few versions of this one but has ended up with this final mix. Seems simple enough as a first mix recipe.
Click to expand...
Can I suggest moving the Bav.Cream down to 2%? The Straw.Ripe is going to have a bit of a tough time standing out behind the cream, especially if it's not layered with a normal Strawberry.
Graham Cracker I would suggest at 1.5%.
 
If you bought Strawberry, Dragonfruit and Cheesecake Graham next month, you could do God Milk:

3% TFA Bavarian Cream
3% TFA Cheesecake Graham Crust
1% TFA Dragonfruit
4% TFA Strawberry
4% TFA Strawberry Ripe

God Milk after just two months will make you the Arnold of DIY.
:coleman:

The rest of us were still doing 15% TFA Silly Rabbit standalone at that point.
 
Thanx for the tips @akt
RichJB said:
If you bought Strawberry, Dragonfruit and Cheesecake Graham next month, you could do God Milk:

3% TFA Bavarian Cream
3% TFA Cheesecake Graham Crust
1% TFA Dragonfruit
4% TFA Strawberry
4% TFA Strawberry Ripe

God Milk after just two months will make you the Arnold of DIY.
:coleman:

The rest of us were still doing 15% TFA Silly Rabbit standalone at that point.
Click to expand...
lol... Funny

Lets see how it goes with my first mix before you start comparing me to The Governator!
For the first few months I intend to just mix readily available recipes which has some good reviews. Thereafter, after I've learned a bit about concentrates and mixing in general, will I only attempt to do something more original.
I was about to place my order just now, when I was faced with a factor I never factored into my equations. I just took for granted, that one size fits all. My factor not factored in - Nicotine... I was faced with the question - PG or VG?
I have read enough to know that some people have their own preference etc but I'm just interested in which one is more commonly used or easiest to work with.
On the subject of nicotine - I have vaped some stuff and alot of the time, the nic content is hella strong for me. Even when it's said to be 3mg. I havent even begun to do the research on nic but, if 3mg is too much for me... can I do 2mg? Is that even a thing?

Please keep all the comments coming. It is much appreciated!

PS: I'll be back :-D
 
playa4life said:
Thanx for the tips @akt

lol... Funny

Lets see how it goes with my first mix before you start comparing me to The Governator!
For the first few months I intend to just mix readily available recipes which has some good reviews. Thereafter, after I've learned a bit about concentrates and mixing in general, will I only attempt to do something more original.
I was about to place my order just now, when I was faced with a factor I never factored into my equations. I just took for granted, that one size fits all. My factor not factored in - Nicotine... I was faced with the question - PG or VG?
I have read enough to know that some people have their own preference etc but I'm just interested in which one is more commonly used or easiest to work with.
On the subject of nicotine - I have vaped some stuff and alot of the time, the nic content is hella strong for me. Even when it's said to be 3mg. I havent even begun to do the research on nic but, if 3mg is too much for me... can I do 2mg? Is that even a thing?

Please keep all the comments coming. It is much appreciated!

PS: I'll be back :-D
Click to expand...
For nicotine, it depends what you want your final PG/VG ratio to be. If you're aiming for 70/30, it means that 30% of your juice can consist of PG (which includes flavouring). If you get PG nicotine, then that has to fit inside that 30% too. At 36 mg/ml nicotine, that doesn't always happen unless you have low percentage flavours in there. It's why I opt for VG nicotine - but 50/50 nicotine would also work.
 
Get yourself a good diy calculator and you can mix nic at 3.14mg if you so wish, it's that easy :)

Unless you are specifically going for Max vg buy nic in pg. It's easier to shake.
 
craigb said:
Get yourself a good diy calculator and you can mix nic at 3.14mg if you so wish, it's that easy :)

Unless you are specifically going for Max vg buy nic in pg. It's easier to shake.
Click to expand...

Emphasising that part. It's definitely easier to shake. Shaking VG nic is... unpleasant.
But you can run into problems with PG nic even without going max vg, though. A 70/30 recipe with 20+% flavouring and 3+% mg nic is going to give you problems.
(Not that you should mix 20+% flavouring, but I digress) :p
 
I use PG nic as it's a lot easier to work with and, in my experience anyway, also more likely to be stocked. But I mix everything at 60/40 so I never have problems hitting the PG cap. If 3mg nic seems too strong for you, by all means drop to 2mg or less even. As @craigb says, you can input any nic strength you like and the calculator will factor it in correctly for you. The same applies to VG and PG. You don't have to go 70/30 or 60/40. You could go 76.5/23.5 if you so desired. In DIY, you have complete control and can tailor the juice to your exact preferences.
 
http://e-liquid-recipes.com seems to have a simple enough calculator. But, instead of just going out and starting to use a calculator, only to find out a few months later that I've been using an outdated calculator that nobody uses anymore coz v2 of that calculator came out and I didnt click on the update button, so now I cant track my mixes from 6 months ago and it keeps on deleting anything that uses TFA Green Goblin... :lol: I'll just ask - Whats the most commonly used calculator? Already saw that some can keep your inventory; keep track of your mixes; print labels; etc. Very impressive stuff.
 
playa4life said:
http://e-liquid-recipes.com seems to have a simple enough calculator. But, instead of just going out and starting to use a calculator, only to find out a few months later that I've been using an outdated calculator that nobody uses anymore coz v2 of that calculator came out and I didnt click on the update button, so now I cant track my mixes from 6 months ago and it keeps on deleting anything that uses TFA Green Goblin... :lol: I'll just ask - Whats the most commonly used calculator? Already saw that some can keep your inventory; keep track of your mixes; print labels; etc. Very impressive stuff.
Click to expand...
Well, the Steam Engine one is pretty good, but there's nothing wrong with the ELR one either. Steam Engine link here.

Personally I use JuiceCalculator, it's Windows-based software that stores your recipes, tracks your inventory (concentrates & bases), and has many extra functions for adding nicotine to a mix, or making flavourstones, etc. It also has a steeping list, minimum stock alerts, a shopping list feature, and works out cost per recipe based on your suppliers' prices. It's a bastard to set up initially, but after that it's pretty good. Link is here.
 
The one I use is this one. It's very powerful and might be a bit daunting at first. But once you have it set up, it will do almost anything you need. We also have a thread here where the developer provides answers and takes feedback.

Edit: it's the same one that @aktorsyl linked.
 
aktorsyl said:
Well, the Steam Engine one is pretty good, but there's nothing wrong with the ELR one either. Steam Engine link here.

Personally I use JuiceCalculator, it's Windows-based software that stores your recipes, tracks your inventory (concentrates & bases), and has many extra functions for adding nicotine to a mix, or making flavourstones, etc. It also has a steeping list, minimum stock alerts, a shopping list feature, and works out cost per recipe based on your suppliers' prices. It's a bastard to set up initially, but after that it's pretty good. Link is here.
Click to expand...
I second (or third) this one. Great calculator that's worth the effort of setting it up.
 
Thanks all for your contributions.
I hope this thread helps would be DIYers and answers some of those initial questions!
 
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