Typical government crap! Don't stand for it,contact your representatives
It would be a hassle but unfortunately we can't fight such a decision from a bank or institution. We must order our goodies online and on checkout get a invoice and do a EFT into our vendors account. Unfortunately if the funds are cleared they must send our stuff. If we like it or not, the government will tax us on vape related stuff. My personal opinion, they don't want to stop vaping,they just want their taxes. I was waiting for three years for this one and unfortunately now it's here.
If PayFast is merely complying they can't be blamed in which case there will be no alternative payment gateways. If it is only PayFast then we should start an anti-PayFast campaign. If it is all the payment gateways because they are merely complying with laws, then the vendors should rename their online divisions and sell "electronics and gadgets", decorative display boxes with electronic chips for hobbyists, and mini glass containers or sealed shot glasses, like explaining to customs what a mod is, you b/s them till they are confused enough to let it slide.
Good Morning Guys.
After reading the disturbing news yesterday I decided to give Pay fast a go and went to the online stores. I did some shopping and my order is done????
Now I want to mention that I am running Kaspersky Internet Security and on checkout it redirects me to a secure banking app from Kaspersky. Now I wonder if this app/blocking device don't make things difficult for Pay fast to access my shopping details? Just a thought, and for the record @Andre ,I bought some concentrates for your DIY recipes that keeps on popping up.
After reading the disturbing news yesterday I decided to give Pay fast a go and went to the online stores. I did some shopping and my order is done????
Now I want to mention that I am running Kaspersky Internet Security and on checkout it redirects me to a secure banking app from Kaspersky. Now I wonder if this app/blocking device don't make things difficult for Pay fast to access my shopping details? Just a thought, and for the record @Andre ,I bought some concentrates for your DIY recipes that keeps on popping up.
@Petrus I also used Payfast late yesterday afternoon, worked.
I have been involved in online commerce for a LONG time, and every now and then, because of some government regulation, something like this happens.
I am also an entrepreneur, and always looking for opportunities.
NOT saying I will be doing this, but, thinking about it, but, at the same time, happy to share so someone else might just jump on it ...
Someone COULD go and open a Mauritius business and bank account, and setup as an offshore card processor. Most of the more risky online niches like gambling and porn, have an offshore processor, MANY in Mauritius.
Now, before anyone jumps in saying this is illegal, it is NOT. MAIN thing is that the funds earned IS transferred back to SA, and PROPERLY declared as income at SARS.
The processing fees would be a little higher for the vendors, as well and funds transfer fees to local bank, AS WELL AS currency loss or sometimes gain.
Just thinking out loud. May just be the way forward for the Vaping industry in SA selling online.
I am also an entrepreneur, and always looking for opportunities.
NOT saying I will be doing this, but, thinking about it, but, at the same time, happy to share so someone else might just jump on it ...
Someone COULD go and open a Mauritius business and bank account, and setup as an offshore card processor. Most of the more risky online niches like gambling and porn, have an offshore processor, MANY in Mauritius.
Now, before anyone jumps in saying this is illegal, it is NOT. MAIN thing is that the funds earned IS transferred back to SA, and PROPERLY declared as income at SARS.
The processing fees would be a little higher for the vendors, as well and funds transfer fees to local bank, AS WELL AS currency loss or sometimes gain.
Just thinking out loud. May just be the way forward for the Vaping industry in SA selling online.
If vaping stuff is classified under the tobacco laws and it's illegal to sell tobacco products online, I think Payfast may just be the least of our worries. Most, if not all, vape shops have an online store.
My suggestion to get around this would be to do what places that aren't allowed to sell liquor do, and sell "tokens" that are then used to swop for goods. It's inconvenient and will make it more difficult for beginners. (This would create an even greater barrier to entry for new vapers though)
My suggestion to get around this would be to do what places that aren't allowed to sell liquor do, and sell "tokens" that are then used to swop for goods. It's inconvenient and will make it more difficult for beginners. (This would create an even greater barrier to entry for new vapers though)
Like I said in a previous post if you got problems with payfast do a EFT to the vendor wait a day extra and receive your goods.
wait? What's that?
Makes sense, just kind of sucks getting used to the day of or next day delivery
Really great idea - so vape shops just sell gift vouchers via Payfast, then use the voucher loaded on your account to buy goods. Nice one.
Would probably have to involve a third party. My understanding would be any company selling "undesirable" goods online would not be allowed to make use of a card processor. Even if the card processor isn't being directly used to sell said "undesirable" goods.
Then that third party, if all the vouchers are used for is to buy "undesirable" goods - they will be classified as "undesirable" related and blacklisted as well.
So the law seems to clearly state that they want to restrict the sale of tobacco products which I can largely agree with. We don't want little kids buying cigarettes, cigars.
Vaping is not a Tobacco. It is not smoking. Mods, atties, coils, batteries, chargers, wire, cotton etc have nothing to do with tobacco so why do Payfast suddenly take the tobacco law up top and then add e-cigs into it? At best it should be vendors can't sell tobacco flavours online if they contain real tobacco that that should be as far as it goes and vendors can just remove them as an option to purchase on their online carts. This will stop 99.9% of vaping purchases that have no relevance tobacco laws in the least. Everyone loses, us, the vendors, Payfast, so who is winning by this weird link?
Sad news. not good.If only the Vape community was so huge and in demand that Uber got on-board. UberVape. Buy your vape goodies from supporting vendors in your area and get them delivered right to you, Like UberEats. Thats in the perfect world!
Gosh, so VISA & Mastercard are going to tell me I can't swipe my card at a Twisp Kiosk down the line I guess.
Hey, there's a silver lining coming. No vendors will pay VAT on the purchases anymore since there'll be cash only purchases so our end prices will drop and there'll be no reference point for customs to base a price on when we us e-wallets to imports so everything will come with no custom charge.
Oh, certain BIG social apps have there own wallets that you can link to credit cards. the one I just set up 2 minutes ago even give you random rebates on your purchases when you pay using it. So I bought a value into that wallet from my card. I can then pay a vendor from that wallet using that app or another from a bank instead of exposing my card directly... Put those QR codes up on your sites vendors
I can't see them actually enforcing this with anything but actual nicotine containing e-juice.
Keep the word 'e-cigarette' off the store listings and most products are not identifiable as vaping related anyway.
Even the juice could mostly get around this by making sure the listing titles used in shopping carts are less obviously vaping related.
Keep the word 'e-cigarette' off the store listings and most products are not identifiable as vaping related anyway.
Even the juice could mostly get around this by making sure the listing titles used in shopping carts are less obviously vaping related.
There are some nice greedy hands in goverment, that are not getting their slice of the vape pie.
This is South Africa, and this has much less to do with health than with graft in the end of the day.
I believe and will continue to, until the day we in this country have a proper, accountable and transparent goverment in place.
Until that day, all taxes, all laws are written and enforced selectively to benefit the ruling class.
Further, the fact that credit card companies and banks and related businesses have made this decision, is purely to protect themselves from being penalised by the goverment of the day, and fined huge pocket enriching amounts.
Here endeth the lesson....
This is South Africa, and this has much less to do with health than with graft in the end of the day.
I believe and will continue to, until the day we in this country have a proper, accountable and transparent goverment in place.
Until that day, all taxes, all laws are written and enforced selectively to benefit the ruling class.
Further, the fact that credit card companies and banks and related businesses have made this decision, is purely to protect themselves from being penalised by the goverment of the day, and fined huge pocket enriching amounts.
Here endeth the lesson....
This isn't actually a South African law, as far as I am aware no law has been passed nor put for comment classifying vaping products as Tobacco so it is not quite yet our government's fault. PayFast are complying with the policies of VISA and MasterCard, similar to how they comply to to PCI, they can't afford to take any chances as they could lose their PCI compliance and effectively have to close down.
For now we are still using payfast, they have not cut us off so we will see how it goes...
Where would one find such a government? The US, EU, Aus, NZ, Canada all tax the hell out of cigarettes and are either planning on doing the same to vaping or have already done so.
If the SA govt came down like a ton of bricks on vaping while other governments were chilled about it, I think we'd have reason to complain. But, if anything, there are far fewer restrictions/taxes on vaping here than anywhere else. Aus and NZ vapers, to illustrate, aren't even allowed to buy nic from local vendors, they have to import it. SA also remains one of the cheapest countries in the world for smokers. The UK cost of cigarettes is truly staggering.
Of course, it won't last forever, regulation and taxation of vaping products is imminent here. But I believe it won't be more restrictive or expensive than anywhere else. This is a global thing, not a SA government thing.
NZ vapers, can source diy nic and nic ejuice locally. Incorrect to say they have to import.
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That's odd because I was talking to a Kiwi DIYer on Discord and he told me he imports his nic from the US. In addition, I found this on a NZ vaping DIY site:
And
Why would a NZ vendor recommend Nude Nicotine, a US company?
And
Why would a NZ vendor recommend Nude Nicotine, a US company?
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