DIY - What's the Catch
- Thread starter Glytch
- Start date
Made the mustard milk clone to start with, nice simple recipe (2 flavors) and supposedly delicious, couple of weeks steep time though. Also tried my hand at the sucker punch clone as well as Wild, Ripe 'n Juicy. They all seemed pretty simple to make and perfect for cutting my teeth on. Then when i ordered Blck vapour had all the ingredients for Rhodonite so decided to take the plunge and try something harder. was surprisingly easy with the scale (Not for beginners I hear but fortune favors the brave) 
Also made a whole batch of 5ml testing bottles trying a few ideas out so pretty chuffed all in all. I think the difficulty comes in when you are balancing your own flavors, but that's the fun i'm looking forward to.
Also made a whole batch of 5ml testing bottles trying a few ideas out so pretty chuffed all in all. I think the difficulty comes in when you are balancing your own flavors, but that's the fun i'm looking forward to.
Did you shake and vape any of the wild, ripe and juicy? I'd be interested to know how it tastes.
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Yeah I did but wouldnt advise it. This is pretty much my take on it so far:
Shake and vape - Overpowering peach, almost purfumey so. Didn't enjoy the throat hit either.
1 day - Peach still in overpowering, purfumey flavor gone. throat hit now manageable.
2 days - peach has blended really nicely with the strawberry, hints of blueberry are starting to appear. quite vapable at this point and very little throat hit. Really enjoyable.
looking forward to trying it tomorrow. its just getting better and better quickly.
the Rhodonite is the other one I've tried so far. didn't shake and vape but at 1 day I was getting a very nutty flavor overpowering the entire flavour, this morning I'm getting the Raspberry coming through nicely, still no apple though. I think one more day on this it will be magic.
Great feedback. Thanks
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Something else to think about. We DIYers are buying all of our ingredients at retail prices (at least most of us ). Imagine how cheaply we could make juices if we were buying at wholesale prices...... makes you think about high profits being made by others !!!
With a little experience under my belt I can mix up a couple of 30ml bottles in under 10 mins.
Go on GLYTCH start DIYing. You won't regret it. Be careful with the nic strength. As far as the rest is concerned it is really easy to make good juice. I agree with the comments made by RICHJB, keep it simple in the beginning.
With a little experience under my belt I can mix up a couple of 30ml bottles in under 10 mins.
Go on GLYTCH start DIYing. You won't regret it. Be careful with the nic strength. As far as the rest is concerned it is really easy to make good juice. I agree with the comments made by RICHJB, keep it simple in the beginning.
If we are truly serious about helping people get off the stinkies we have to reduce costs. A close friend started vaping but quit because of the cost of juice. I Vape around 20ml per day. A new vaper (probably buying coils at R30 a pop) and paying high prices for juice has little financial interest in giving up the analogues.
I agree with you absolutely @Puff the Magic Dragon. This is why we have to get into DIY juices and recoiling.
Also look at @Glytch ‘s post on “look what I found".
Also look at @Glytch ‘s post on “look what I found".
@Glytch @Warlock , as it has been said diy can be fun and rewarding though it does take some trial and error but if You copy all the recipes available on this forum and on line you'll get some very vapeable juice.start with simple two flavor recipes like tobacco and menthol.Have fun with it! The savings are incredible.
Puff and Warlock, I think juice consumption is something the vaping industry will need to look at with some urgency. The Royal College of Physicians said that it wanted to encourage innovation and development in vaping gear. The industry has certainly done that in the past few years. However, the design trend has been towards higher wattages, lower resistances, higher temps, more/bigger coils, thirstier tanks and exponentially increasing juice consumption. I'm not sure that's the development direction the Royal College had in mind.
The vaping industry keeps bragging about the "billion lives" that can be saved. However, it is well known that most of those billion smokers are in the developing world, and most are among the lower income groups. Vaping 30ml of commercial juice per day, which seems to be rapidly becoming the norm with high-end vaping gear, will cost around R150 per day. A smoker can smoke 120 cigarettes a day for that cost.
I think we can accept that DIY juicing and coiling will never be mainstream, it will always be the domain of the enthusiast rather than the masses. So are the vaping manufacturers not pricing themselves out of their implied mission of saving hundreds of millions of lives? I think there is scope for a two-tiered vaping community in which the vast majority use the 1-2ml per day Twisps and cigalikes made by big tobacco, with a minority of relatively wealthy enthusiasts going for the type of vaping gear that we enjoy.
But then we should maybe accept that the involvement of big tobacco isn't necessarily a bad thing. For one thing, big tobacco has a lot of experience of pricing their products for mass global consumption. They have been doing it for decades, after all. If they can price their cigalikes that it remains affordable for smokers to quit tobacco, even if they can't afford the commercial juice that high-end vaping gear consumes, that won't necessarily be a bad thing.
I think the vaping manufacturers, Joyetech/Eleaf et al, have to look carefully at their business model. It's been blue skies up to now. It's a new industry and there are plenty of relatively wealthy early adopters who are willing to spend much more on commercial juice than they did on smoking. But that market segment, as a percentage of smokers globally, is relatively small. So the dedicated high-end vaping market is going to hit its ceiling quite quickly. Big tobacco will pitch a far more affordable lower-juice-consumption model and they will kill the dedicated vaping companies in terms of market share and turnover.
Vaping companies don't seem too business-savvy at the moment. One looks at how Sigelei responded to the 213 mod issue and it becomes clear that PR and marketing is not their forte. They will need to develop those skills very quickly if they want to compete with big tobacco.
The other aspect - and this is a huge threat to the dedicated high-end vaping industry - is the risk of a few high-profile domestic nicotine poisoning cases, and regulators issuing a kneejerk prohibition on the sale and storage of nicotine at home. If that happens, we are royally screwed. Even at my very moderate consumption of 6ml of juice per day, commercial juice would cost me R30 daily. That is 50% more than I was spending on smoking. And that's without the cost of mods, tanks, batteries. The industry needs to tread very very carefully. It's blue skies now but the situation might not persist.
The vaping industry keeps bragging about the "billion lives" that can be saved. However, it is well known that most of those billion smokers are in the developing world, and most are among the lower income groups. Vaping 30ml of commercial juice per day, which seems to be rapidly becoming the norm with high-end vaping gear, will cost around R150 per day. A smoker can smoke 120 cigarettes a day for that cost.
I think we can accept that DIY juicing and coiling will never be mainstream, it will always be the domain of the enthusiast rather than the masses. So are the vaping manufacturers not pricing themselves out of their implied mission of saving hundreds of millions of lives? I think there is scope for a two-tiered vaping community in which the vast majority use the 1-2ml per day Twisps and cigalikes made by big tobacco, with a minority of relatively wealthy enthusiasts going for the type of vaping gear that we enjoy.
But then we should maybe accept that the involvement of big tobacco isn't necessarily a bad thing. For one thing, big tobacco has a lot of experience of pricing their products for mass global consumption. They have been doing it for decades, after all. If they can price their cigalikes that it remains affordable for smokers to quit tobacco, even if they can't afford the commercial juice that high-end vaping gear consumes, that won't necessarily be a bad thing.
I think the vaping manufacturers, Joyetech/Eleaf et al, have to look carefully at their business model. It's been blue skies up to now. It's a new industry and there are plenty of relatively wealthy early adopters who are willing to spend much more on commercial juice than they did on smoking. But that market segment, as a percentage of smokers globally, is relatively small. So the dedicated high-end vaping market is going to hit its ceiling quite quickly. Big tobacco will pitch a far more affordable lower-juice-consumption model and they will kill the dedicated vaping companies in terms of market share and turnover.
Vaping companies don't seem too business-savvy at the moment. One looks at how Sigelei responded to the 213 mod issue and it becomes clear that PR and marketing is not their forte. They will need to develop those skills very quickly if they want to compete with big tobacco.
The other aspect - and this is a huge threat to the dedicated high-end vaping industry - is the risk of a few high-profile domestic nicotine poisoning cases, and regulators issuing a kneejerk prohibition on the sale and storage of nicotine at home. If that happens, we are royally screwed. Even at my very moderate consumption of 6ml of juice per day, commercial juice would cost me R30 daily. That is 50% more than I was spending on smoking. And that's without the cost of mods, tanks, batteries. The industry needs to tread very very carefully. It's blue skies now but the situation might not persist.
Yes @RichJB, I so agree with everything you said in your analysis. I’m hardly qualified to argue the point as eloquently as you have, but thank you for doing it and thank you for putting it on this forum. I hope everyone on the forum will read this and it will filter through to the manufacturers and suppliers of vaping gear and e-liquids in this country for starters.
I have marvelled at the cost of the hardware that we are using (for instance, how can a RDA possibly cost on average over R500?) and agree with you that the daily cost of juice may be more than the cost of cigarettes.
I’m still in the ‘enviable’ position that I am profiting from vaping because I was a heavy smoker. I am also terrified of a ‘kneejerk’ reaction in South Africa similar to the Pennsylvanian extortion tax which would force me back to tobacco cigarettes.
This is why I am pursuing with vigour the reduction of costs to me of e-liquids, because the hardware I can make myself
I have marvelled at the cost of the hardware that we are using (for instance, how can a RDA possibly cost on average over R500?) and agree with you that the daily cost of juice may be more than the cost of cigarettes.
I’m still in the ‘enviable’ position that I am profiting from vaping because I was a heavy smoker. I am also terrified of a ‘kneejerk’ reaction in South Africa similar to the Pennsylvanian extortion tax which would force me back to tobacco cigarettes.
This is why I am pursuing with vigour the reduction of costs to me of e-liquids, because the hardware I can make myself
Interesting read. It will be interesting to see what the future of vaping becomes.
Vaping style is a personal thing, from the Tootle Puffers to the Cloud Chasers. There will always be the kiddie cruisers and those hopelessly spiraling into vaping overdose. +1 on the overdose here. I'm not a cloud chaser, but do use up a lot of juice like they do with my long lung draws and favored low sub ohm big coil dual builds.
But vaping is what I do, 24/7/365, mostly all I do now so the cost to vape has been irrelevant to me. I've spent well over four times on vaping what smoking stinkies and pipes was costing me when I stopped about 3.5 years ago. Most was spent on high end gear that I still have but don't use much of anymore. Was just the long path it took to find the gear I like the best. But when I took a break from doing DIY for about a year I also bought hundreds of 30ml or larger bottles of premade liquids as well at the high prices they were sold for. I used about 30-35ml per day/night on average in my Reos about 4 months ago. But now days it's easily double that since I joined this forum and bought a bunch of TC Mods/tanks ran with lower builds at higher wattage that go thru joose like it's going out of style. But since I DIY and extract some of my own NEF's for almost all of my liquids, even that higher usage of juice is really quite cheap. I get great prices on the few concentrates I still buy getting them in larger sizes, the NEF's cost me next to nothing to make but some time. I don't use nicotine in my DIY liquids, so I can make 1000ml of joose for about $15-$20 US. With more gear than I could ever use, vaping has become quite cheap now that I'm mostly mostly only using DIY liquids and all but done buying vape gear.
Very interesting comments above
In my view vaping is still in a relatively infant stage. Penetration of the addressable market (mainly smokers) is still extremely low.
I agree that the enthusiastic fringe of the market is developing toward higher power thirsty setups that may not be everyone's cup of tea.
But there is another side to vaping - ie the lower powered setups. They may be less popular here on the forum but i do agree they represent a big part of the market and appeal to the masses. I also hope more devlopment and improvement takes place in this area.
It does come down to personal preference. I love nothing more than a mild "tootle puff" in the mornings on my little Evod with some 18mg fruity menthol juices. And most of my vaping is at relatively low power on the Reo/RM2, the Subtank Mini and the Lemo1. The occasional bigger cloud session on a much higher powered dripper is not a frequent thing in my vaping. Sometimes its nice but mostly I dont really need or want it. But thats my preference.
I am so happy that the local vendors have taken the bull by the horns and developed the market the way they have. And many of them have created unbelievably great businesses from nothing. That takes guts and lots of business savvy. Long may this continue because we all benefit from it - through more choice and availability. Compare where we are now versus just two years ago. Night and day difference.
I think vaping is here to stay!
The main thing for me is that I feel much better vaping than smoking. Its nice to read the research that is generally in support of vaping, but I look at my own experience over the past 2.5 years. I dont have a tight chest and my training is better. I dont stink and i feel happy i am reducing my risk of getting a life threatening disease from the stinkies.
On the cost issue, i have spent way more than I needed to, but its been part of the journey. And its been a wonderful one to go through. I do spend a lot less nowadays. But in any case, a few thousand here and there on vaping is but a penny compared to the cost of treating some smoking related illnesses.
Bottom line -> Vaping for the win
Extra bottom line -> our local vendors are tops
In my view vaping is still in a relatively infant stage. Penetration of the addressable market (mainly smokers) is still extremely low.
I agree that the enthusiastic fringe of the market is developing toward higher power thirsty setups that may not be everyone's cup of tea.
But there is another side to vaping - ie the lower powered setups. They may be less popular here on the forum but i do agree they represent a big part of the market and appeal to the masses. I also hope more devlopment and improvement takes place in this area.
It does come down to personal preference. I love nothing more than a mild "tootle puff" in the mornings on my little Evod with some 18mg fruity menthol juices. And most of my vaping is at relatively low power on the Reo/RM2, the Subtank Mini and the Lemo1. The occasional bigger cloud session on a much higher powered dripper is not a frequent thing in my vaping. Sometimes its nice but mostly I dont really need or want it. But thats my preference.
I am so happy that the local vendors have taken the bull by the horns and developed the market the way they have. And many of them have created unbelievably great businesses from nothing. That takes guts and lots of business savvy. Long may this continue because we all benefit from it - through more choice and availability. Compare where we are now versus just two years ago. Night and day difference.
I think vaping is here to stay!
The main thing for me is that I feel much better vaping than smoking. Its nice to read the research that is generally in support of vaping, but I look at my own experience over the past 2.5 years. I dont have a tight chest and my training is better. I dont stink and i feel happy i am reducing my risk of getting a life threatening disease from the stinkies.
On the cost issue, i have spent way more than I needed to, but its been part of the journey. And its been a wonderful one to go through. I do spend a lot less nowadays. But in any case, a few thousand here and there on vaping is but a penny compared to the cost of treating some smoking related illnesses.
Bottom line -> Vaping for the win
Extra bottom line -> our local vendors are tops
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Agreed, Silver. I think any new industry goes through a learning curve and also a honeymoon period where there were no customers before, so every convert from smoking is a new customer and the industry sees explosive growth. I'm also impressed that, despite not being subject to any international standards, the vaping industry was able to standardise on, for example, the 510 connector. An inability to agree on standards is what holds many industries back but vaping has overcome that. Can you imagine what a nightmare it would be if, say, Smok had their own proprietary connector that only fitted their mods and tanks but nobody else's?
I think there is scope for a broad range of vaping gear too. There will always be a market for octuple-coil heads, triple-cell 300W mods and 60ml of juice consumption a day. I don't think it will ever be the mainstream market but there will be a niche for it. Just as there will always be a market for cigalikes and Twisp products. It's the most easily-learned and accessible device for a new user.
I look forward eagerly to seeing how the vaping technology changes. If we look at audio recording as an analogy, the first devices were huge, heavy reel-to-reel 8 track recorders where just getting the thing to play entailed lacing the tape through the magnetic heads and rollers and was quite a mission. Those were improved to 8-track cassettes and 4-track cassettes before CD was introduced. And then mp3 hard drive recording became the universal standard, where there was no recording media at all.
I'm thinking that we will see an equivalent curve in vaping. Who knows, in ten years we might be sitting here laughing and saying "Jeez, can you remember the days when we had to build coils and faff around with cotton wicks?" Let's face it, cutting up little strips of cotton, rolling the end, poking it through a metal coil, prodding it down into a slot with a pair of tweezers and then pouring juice on it is the Stone Age. It sounds more like 1916 than 2016.
I foresee box mods being the way to go. However, the box mod will talk to your smart phone and your iWatch, and you will be able to set vapour temperature, flavour and nic strength, cloud size via touch-screen sliders on a display on your phone. I think the juice and coil/wick will be in a little cartridge, much like an inkjet printer cartridge. You'll buy your cartridge, just plug it into the box mode, do the settings on your phone, and off you go. When the cartridge is finished, just pop out and replace. I cannot see any other way that vaping will ever become mainstream to the extent that smoking has been. The mainstream want stuff that is easy.
When Hon Lik developed the first e-cig, he tried and discarded ultrasound as a means to vaporise the liquid. We assume that battery-powered heating will prevail to vaporise but I'm not sure it will. I'm sure there must be alternative technologies. Having to charge batteries every single day is a major PITA for most users. I'm sure technology will find something easier. Who knows, we may even find box mods with inbuilt micro solar panels or somesuch in the future.
The sky is the limit with this technology. We are right at the beginning and we assume that the current gear is about as convenient or efficient as it's going to get. Just like early audio fans assumed that the 8-track reel-to-reel recorder was as good as it was going to get. They were surprised. I think we will be too. I'd love to hop into a time machine and see what vape gear will look like in ten years' time.
I think there is scope for a broad range of vaping gear too. There will always be a market for octuple-coil heads, triple-cell 300W mods and 60ml of juice consumption a day. I don't think it will ever be the mainstream market but there will be a niche for it. Just as there will always be a market for cigalikes and Twisp products. It's the most easily-learned and accessible device for a new user.
I look forward eagerly to seeing how the vaping technology changes. If we look at audio recording as an analogy, the first devices were huge, heavy reel-to-reel 8 track recorders where just getting the thing to play entailed lacing the tape through the magnetic heads and rollers and was quite a mission. Those were improved to 8-track cassettes and 4-track cassettes before CD was introduced. And then mp3 hard drive recording became the universal standard, where there was no recording media at all.
I'm thinking that we will see an equivalent curve in vaping. Who knows, in ten years we might be sitting here laughing and saying "Jeez, can you remember the days when we had to build coils and faff around with cotton wicks?" Let's face it, cutting up little strips of cotton, rolling the end, poking it through a metal coil, prodding it down into a slot with a pair of tweezers and then pouring juice on it is the Stone Age. It sounds more like 1916 than 2016.
I foresee box mods being the way to go. However, the box mod will talk to your smart phone and your iWatch, and you will be able to set vapour temperature, flavour and nic strength, cloud size via touch-screen sliders on a display on your phone. I think the juice and coil/wick will be in a little cartridge, much like an inkjet printer cartridge. You'll buy your cartridge, just plug it into the box mode, do the settings on your phone, and off you go. When the cartridge is finished, just pop out and replace. I cannot see any other way that vaping will ever become mainstream to the extent that smoking has been. The mainstream want stuff that is easy.
When Hon Lik developed the first e-cig, he tried and discarded ultrasound as a means to vaporise the liquid. We assume that battery-powered heating will prevail to vaporise but I'm not sure it will. I'm sure there must be alternative technologies. Having to charge batteries every single day is a major PITA for most users. I'm sure technology will find something easier. Who knows, we may even find box mods with inbuilt micro solar panels or somesuch in the future.
The sky is the limit with this technology. We are right at the beginning and we assume that the current gear is about as convenient or efficient as it's going to get. Just like early audio fans assumed that the 8-track reel-to-reel recorder was as good as it was going to get. They were surprised. I think we will be too. I'd love to hop into a time machine and see what vape gear will look like in ten years' time.
Ok I got most of everything I needed to start the DIY e-liquids. Made the Mustard Milk and Sucker Punch as well. All easy to make with a scale ( found an itsy one at the Chinese mall for R80.00). Turns off after one minute so you gotta be quick. I made a few others as well--- Blue PS and a watermelon and menthol (8% and 2%). Everything 5% nicotine 30% PG and 70% VG. All flavours are TFA from Skyblue vaping.
The point is I’m having fun and it is cheap (not the flavours but everything else).No more paying over R100.00 for 30ml.
The most expensive one I made used 5 flavours (one was Koolada---not cheap) and worked out to R34.68 for 30ml.
Using max 15ml per day.
All this would not have happened without the good people on this forum and their informative posts and encouragements.
Big thanks all
The point is I’m having fun and it is cheap (not the flavours but everything else).No more paying over R100.00 for 30ml.
The most expensive one I made used 5 flavours (one was Koolada---not cheap) and worked out to R34.68 for 30ml.
Using max 15ml per day.
All this would not have happened without the good people on this forum and their informative posts and encouragements.
Big thanks all
Awesome. Getting my stuff later this week! Can't wait to get started.Ok I got most of everything I needed to start the DIY e-liquids. Made the Mustard Milk and Sucker Punch as well. All easy to make with a scale ( found an itsy one at the Chinese mall for R80.00). Turns off after one minute so you gotta be quick. I made a few others as well--- Blue PS and a watermelon and menthol (8% and 2%). Everything 5% nicotine 30% PG and 70% VG. All flavours are TFA from Skyblue vaping.
The point is I’m having fun and it is cheap (not the flavours but everything else).No more paying over R100.00 for 30ml.
The most expensive one I made used 5 flavours (one was Koolada---not cheap) and worked out to R34.68 for 30ml.
Using max 15ml per day.
All this would not have happened without the good people on this forum and their informative posts and encouragements.
Big thanks all
Tasted anything yet? What are the steep time on those recipes? Links to them?
Not a clue on the steeping time, @Glytch, but I am tasting as I go and everything I've made is vapable. Life would be easier if I had a dripper, so I could taste smaller quantities, now I just suffer through the not-so-good ones
I'm not too clued up on posting links (I was born BC), but if you look up 'eJuice Me Up', they have a very neat e-juice calculator and hundreds and hundreds of recipes. http://www.breaktru.com.
Hope that helps.
I'm not too clued up on posting links (I was born BC), but if you look up 'eJuice Me Up', they have a very neat e-juice calculator and hundreds and hundreds of recipes. http://www.breaktru.com.
Hope that helps.
Remember you can vape vg on its own, so if you have a bad tasting concoction you just drown the taste with vg.
Very pleased you have started DIY. R 25 - R 35 per 30ml. It's a no-brainer...and can even be fun. I find it hard to believe that some pay R 175 per 30ml.
As I said in an earlier post we are paying retail for our DIY ingredients. Imagine how little it actually costs when paying wholesale prices !
As I said in an earlier post we are paying retail for our DIY ingredients. Imagine how little it actually costs when paying wholesale prices !
More feedback, The Mustard Milk works out at R1.08 per ml (R32.48 for 30ml). Two flavours.
The Sucker Punch Clone at R1.43 per ml (R42.78 for 30ml). Three flavours, one of which is Dragon Fruit at 14% by volume.
But even then it is all still very economical.
The Sucker Punch Clone at R1.43 per ml (R42.78 for 30ml). Three flavours, one of which is Dragon Fruit at 14% by volume.
But even then it is all still very economical.
Depends on your Nic Level there Warlock. Mustard Milk could be as low as R17 for 30Ml if you are running at 0 Nic.
this gets even cheaper when you start playing with FA Flavours.
All the more reason for me to get onto a lower Nicotine level as soon as I can
this gets even cheaper when you start playing with FA Flavours.
All the more reason for me to get onto a lower Nicotine level as soon as I can
Bit more feedback on this too. I see it was mentioned that an overnight steep was recommended on the DIYorDIE site but It was still quite nutty till about day three and honestly didn't like the stuff much at all, I thought I had wasted my money. Day four comes around and man it was a whole different kettle of fish. This stuff is better than good, the wife wont vape anything else at this point and I find this is becoming my ADV very quickly. I Had to make another 200ml last night.
Maybe one of the more experienced guys can help: Any reason that the steep took so much longer than recommended. Perhaps I didn't shake it enough? I was shaking it daily and letting it air.
No I didn't. I thought my warm, loving hands would be enough. Didn't think of it but it Makes sense though that the cold snap we have been going through would slow down the steeping process, thanks @PsiSan.
Do you recommend champagne and Barry White for that warm bah?
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