Lucky man! Still... 36mg Juice... must have felt like his first cigarette all over again
DIY - Your first time
- Thread starter Derick
- Start date
Lucky man! Still... 36mg Juice... must have felt like his first cigarette all over again
Yeah, did a bit of a redesign there as we had lots of queries where sometimes someone just missed the fine print - decided to make it nice and bold@Derick I like the new labels for the PG, VG and Nic! Nice and easy to see from a distance! That'll help me when I'm scrounging around at night making myself e liquids in a dimly lit load shed house
When it is said that 8% flavour is a good starting point is that 8% per flavour or 8% total flavour even if there is 3 flavours?Part 4.
Well mixing is pretty much out of the way, so onto another interesting subject regarding DIY and that is...
FLAVOURING
Flavouring is a very difficult subject to discuss and describe. We are all so influenced by various factors that if you put 10 different people in a room and gave them a flavour to try, you would get 11 different reactions (There's always that one guy)
First a bit of background.
The flavours used in e-liquids are mostly artificial flavours - there are some companies that do natural flavours, and some DIY enthusiasts that extract their own flavours from various sources.
So what is 'artificial' and what is 'natural'?
Truth? Nobody really knows. The term 'natural' is not a regulated term anywhere that I know of.
Regulated?
The FDA and similar bodies in other countries can regulate a term or description. E.g: if you want to call your product organic, it has to comply to a bunch of rules and processes and you have to prove that you comply to these specifications before you can stick your 'organic' logo on the packaging.
Seeing as 'natural' is not a regulated term, anybody can basically slap a 'natural' label on their product and nobody can call them out on it if they disagree.
BUT, with most reputable companies, 'natural' has come to mean that the flavours have been extracted from their actual sources. So vanilla flavour came from actual vanilla beans and banana flavours from actual bananas.
Then companies started to get a bit smarter, they identified the single chemical in Vanilla that gives a flavour that smells and tastes most like vanilla (Vinallin) , and extract just that part. So Still natural - but then they found that a side product of the wood pulp process is also vinallin, and it is a lot cheaper to get (wood pulp manufacturers were treating it as waste!) So it's still natural... right?
Point I'm making is that sometimes natural is only 'natural' when you really stretch the definition of the word and because the term is not regulated, nobody can put limits on how far you can stretch the definition.
Also, remember that natural does not necessarily mean healthier for you - natural arsenic will kill you just as quickly as the synthetic stuff
With artificial or synthetic flavourings, they basically found a way to manufacture the chemical usually extracted from the source - this works out much cheaper and you have a lot less spent vanilla beans to deal with.
The stuff made in the lab is usually purer - in the sense that in most cases a single compound is made, whereas with natural extracts it can contain hundreds of different ingredients besides the main compound responsible for flavour (read here for Vanillin)
Sometimes though the combination of the hundreds of ingredients is what gives something its 'proper' flavours, whereas the lab made one could come out tasting flat and 'synthetic'
Flavour companies
Although there are a bunch of flavour companies around the world that make these flavours (also used in perfume) there are only 3 companies worldwide that make all of the base components for the flavours
IFF (International Flavors and Fragrances)
http://www.iff.com
Givaudan
http://www.givaudan.com
Firmenich
http://www.firmenich.com
Some flavours (like vanilla) is a single component whereas others are various components combined to create a particular flavour.
As a flavour company you can buy the separate components from these companies and mix a new flavour, or you can commission a particular recipe and have them make it for you. This is what TFA, Capella, Flavour art and all of the other smaller flavour companies do. (Even the South-African ones)
So, in the end, no matter who you buy your flavourings from, or which ready to vape e-liquid you buy, you will probably end up with the chemical components made by one of the 3 companies above. The difference is the talent of the person mixing these components in the right ratios that will appeal to the widest variety of people
Now onto the interesting part
Mixing your own Flavours
There is no real magic method to mix the perfect flavour. It is going to depend on your talent to determine which of these components will work well with the other components. Then it might work well for you only - anyone else tasting it might hate it. Fun right?
For the most part, mixing flavours that work in cooking, will also work when mixing flavours for vaping. These tried and tested combinations have been around for years for good reasons and duplicating them is a challenging but rewarding experience.
I can give a few hints and pointers, but ultimately the best way to learn what works, is to try and test for yourself. As you taste more flavours and more combinations, you will start to get a feel for what works and what won't and this can only be learnt through experience. So my recommendation is to start off simple.
Hints and pointers.
I will probably think of more as time goes by and other DIY-ers feel free to comment with more hints and pointers and I will include it all in my final PDF of this series.
- When starting out, mix with one flavour only. Mix a batch of each flavour and test them all out to get a feel for the flavour - Make notes on each flavour for later reference (taste, strength, sweetness level, anything that you find distinctive about the flavour)
- Adjust your flavours to a level you like to vape them at - record that percentage (remember steeping will change the flavour in a lot of cases)
- Vape at least 1-3ml of each flavour (unless of course it is horrible) to get a good feel for the flavour and its strength - a strong flavour might taste great on the first hit, but by the end of your tank it could be making you gag because it is just too strong - the goal is to create a flavour you can vape the whole day
- When starting to combine flavours, start off with 2 flavours only in the percentages that the single flavours worked at - the goal is to either have the two flavours combine to make a new flavour, or to taste the two distinct flavours as you vape, so adjust your levels until you reach your goal. Only adjust one flavour at a time, otherwise you will adjust for ever.
- When you have the 2 flavours process down, go to three or more flavours - once again, adjust one flavour at a time.
- Use additives (see further below for each one and what they do) - they can save a crappy flavour or perfect a really good one.
- Label your bottles with the percentages of your mix
- Take notes! You can never write too much down.
Additives
Sours: This is malic acid, used in baking and sweets - it is what those sour worms have on them and can give a nice acidic taste to your vape, a lot of the sourness is lost with vaping however, so you will never really get the mouth puckering sourness from sour worms, but it will add that acidic sourness you get with some fruits
EM: Ethyl Maltol, it is used as a sweetener in baking and can sweeten your vape to a certain degree - on its own it tastes like cotton candy (in fact that is all that the cotton candy flavour is). EM has the further function that it can dull some of the sharper edges on flavours and make them taste more rounded.
Menthol: Not much to say about this, pretty much everyone knows what menthol does, it stimulates the cold receptors in your mouth, making your brain think your mouth is cold. It can add a nice freshness to your vape or in strong concentrations it can clear your sinuses!
Koolada: Similar to menthol but not as strong - gives the cool sensation primarily in the back of the throat
Vanillin: Although vanilla flavour is a good vape on its own, adding vanilla to just about any mix can only make the mix better.
Sucralose: This is also used as a sweetener in vaping, and is apparently very sweet (I have not tried it myself, so going by what I've read.) Apparently if too much is used though it can lead to an unpleasant aftertaste
Stevia: Sweetener, made from the Stevia plant, Once again, have not used it, but apparently similar results to Sucralose
Diacetyl: Kidding!
And I believe this is where I will end this series. Somewhere in Late December I will take on the e-liquid calculators for those that want to mix the exact mg and PG/VG ratio for their mixes - I will also talk about other interesting and useful software available on the WWW.
Feel free to post questions - even if you are reading this guide a year from now, I will answer them as I see them
Happy mixing and feel free to post your creations and exchange recipes with others
Derick
8% is generally for a single flavour, and when you start mixing more than one, you may want to slightly lower the percentage of each one, but not quite halve it. So for example if you want to equally combine two similar flavours that work well on their own at 8% you could try 6% and 6% (and adjust from there). Sometimes however, if a flavour works well at 8% and you just want to add something to the background, you can leave it at the 8% and just add 1-2% of the other flavour.
In the end, there are no rules here, just suggestions for a place to start. Some flavours even work well at 15%
And there are juices with 20-30% total flavouring that are amazing - it all depends on which flavours and the ratios of each flavour
That said, when starting out it's best to start low and work up, than the other way around - a muted juice is easier to vape than an overpowering one
BAM! Hit the nail on the head.8% is generally for a single flavour, and when you start mixing more than one, you may want to slightly lower the percentage of each one, but not quite halve it. So for example if you want to equally combine two similar flavours that work well on their own at 8% you could try 6% and 6% (and adjust from there). Sometimes however, if a flavour works well at 8% and you just want to add something to the background, you can leave it at the 8% and just add 1-2% of the other flavour.
In the end, there are no rules here, just suggestions for a place to start. Some flavours even work well at 15%
And there are juices with 20-30% total flavouring that are amazing - it all depends on which flavours and the ratios of each flavour
That said, when starting out it's best to start low and work up, than the other way around - a muted juice is easier to vape than an overpowering one
@free3dom has it right and the whole DIY thing comes from experience. Generally when we get a new flavour we will mix it at 8%, just the single flavour and vape it for a day. This gives us an indication of what the flavour actually tastes like, how strong it is at 8%, does it have a strong throat hit? Is it a 'harsh' flavour, is it smooth, is it a lower or higher tone flavour, what does it remind me of.. etc. etc.8% is generally for a single flavour, and when you start mixing more than one, you may want to slightly lower the percentage of each one, but not quite halve it. So for example if you want to equally combine two similar flavours that work well on their own at 8% you could try 6% and 6% (and adjust from there). Sometimes however, if a flavour works well at 8% and you just want to add something to the background, you can leave it at the 8% and just add 1-2% of the other flavour.
In the end, there are no rules here, just suggestions for a place to start. Some flavours even work well at 15%
And there are juices with 20-30% total flavouring that are amazing - it all depends on which flavours and the ratios of each flavour
That said, when starting out it's best to start low and work up, than the other way around - a muted juice is easier to vape than an overpowering one
Using this info and having done the same with previous flavours, we start brainstorming what it would work with and and what percentage. With time and lots of testing you can guess pretty closely with which flavours will go together and which one will need to be low and which one will need to be high
Ok so i read through all the posts by @Derick. thanks for the awesome guide. So from what i gather it is best to mix your nic in 50/50 as well? I dont have enough bottles at the moment to mix them all at 50/50, so then should i just wing the nic close to 50/50, lets say if the mix requires 2ml of nic, then to do 1+1 from both the pg and the vg.
Then lets say i want more of a vg mix, can i then use a 50/50 base, but simple add pure vg nic to give it the extra push towards the vg side or should i up the base vg and keep the nic at 50/50 pg and vg?
i hope this post makes sense.
Then lets say i want more of a vg mix, can i then use a 50/50 base, but simple add pure vg nic to give it the extra push towards the vg side or should i up the base vg and keep the nic at 50/50 pg and vg?
i hope this post makes sense.
Cool thanks.
Yeah im super excited to start experimenting tonight.
Yep, this sounds right, but just be careful and not get yourself confused
You can get some bottles from a plastic world/land near you - they might not be perfect, but they will do the job. Also Pyrex has brought out a 'kitchen lab' range with Erlenmeyer flasks (with rubber lids) and beakers in various sizes - we got some at Makro, but I suspect any large cooking type place will have some
I assume plastic wont be an issue since most liquids come in plastic bottlesYep, this sounds right, but just be careful and not get yourself confused
You can get some bottles from a plastic world/land near you - they might not be perfect, but they will do the job. Also Pyrex has brought out a 'kitchen lab' range with Erlenmeyer flasks (with rubber lids) and beakers in various sizes - we got some at Makro, but I suspect any large cooking type place will have some
This is what they look likeYep, this sounds right, but just be careful and not get yourself confused
You can get some bottles from a plastic world/land near you - they might not be perfect, but they will do the job. Also Pyrex has brought out a 'kitchen lab' range with Erlenmeyer flasks (with rubber lids) and beakers in various sizes - we got some at Makro, but I suspect any large cooking type place will have some
As long as it is PET or HDPE (most plastic bottles are) some other plastics can leach into your liquid
that looks pretty sweet.This is what they look like
Yep they are, and we checked their measurements - compared them to the lab grade stuff we have here and they are spot on. Pyrex actually also makes stuff for labs, so no worries there.
Awesome
ha - well usually at 8% it tastes quite nice - sure you have your percentages right?
Also, let it sit for a day or two and try again
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