Enyawreklaw... R370??

[brotiform]

I think the main issue that people miss is that the concentrates are pre made recipes which include products on the no fly zone. Therefore they attract higher rates on shipping , duties and tax .much more than a basic import or locally made product.

Based on some of the examples here , it's like saying we should all drive tata indicas because it does the same job as any other car...

 

[method1]

DIY'ing juice should, quite frankly, cost you less than the R120/100ml you mention. Though the one thing not factored in to this is your time. What would your time be worth/hour if it was a job.

There are a few things you appear to forget.
The cost of setting up clean room facilities. You may be happy to do it on the kitchen counter at home, but would you be happy to buy a juice made in similar fashion somewhere you have no idea what the conditions are? Should you be happy with that?
The labour costs as mentioned above.
A profit for the producer - in a very small, low volume market.
A profit for the vendor in a small low volume market. The cost of carrying stock and unsold stock.
Marketing and many tiny things that add up.

Do the math and you'll start to see that it really isn't a rip-off. Squeeze the producers and the vendors too much and the incentive to bring all this variety of offerings to you disappears and all that will be left is DIY.

We produce and sell 100ml at R150 + nic. But I had to do some fancy footwork to make that work while maintaining quality. And we only sell directly to public. If we had to sell to vendor it would be very close to that price, and then he would have to make a profit on top of that to make it worth his while.

I said it in another thread. Lower prices are great, but be careful of driving the market down with the China model because it is a race to the bottom not only for price but also for quality. And the SA vaping scene will be much the poorer for it. At the moment we enjoy a great amount of variety and quality offerings in hardware and juice in this small market of ours.

I agree with a lot of this, right now I'm considering withdrawing the concentrates from the market as it seems to be creating a rather negative perception. I also had a vendor refusing to stock them because of the branding (distributed by Hardwick's) despite the fact that they put their own branding on repackaged concentrates from other manufacturers (oh the irony) - I'm not in this to fight with vendors and customers.

 

[Soutie]

I think the main issue that people miss is that the concentrates are pre made recipes which include products on the no fly zone. Therefore they attract higher rates on shipping , duties and tax .much more than a basic import or locally made product

But is that true for these concentrates? I'm Honestly asking out of ignorance here, the whole reason that said concentrates are on the no fly list is due to the flash point of them. Surely when mixed at a few percent of a made up concentrate the flash point is no longer an issue and the premixed concentrate is seen as a whole new product and as such no longer under such restrictions?

 

[method1]

But is that true for these concentrates? I'm Honestly asking out of ignorance here, the whole reason that said concentrates are on the no fly list is due to the flash point of them. Surely when mixed at a few percent of a made up concentrate the flash point is no longer an issue and the premixed concentrate is seen as a whole new product and as such no longer under such restrictions?

The point being made is that you can't make these recipes here due to a key ingredient being unavailable. The substitution that is available is poor to say the least. Flavour trumps price any day imho

 

[Bearshare]

What is your time worth to YOU? What is your time worth to your wife and children?

Do you work full days and then come home and spend your time developing recipes , developing your online webstore and persona, do you design your labelling , do you shell out money for the equipment required to make juices of a quality worth selling?

Time is money , equipment is money , development is money.

It's really basic business principles.

No one is forcing you to buy these concentrates , the same way you are not forced to purchase international brands of any sort.

Everyone has their own right to choice and opinion but your assumptions of this situation could not be any more inaccurate

Kthnxbaai

we didnt want fanboys on here but anyway back to ...Enyawreklaw

@Soutie well said bud ...i stick to vaping is becoming a luxury rather than a means to quit stinkies.

 

[Dobie]

Assuming you already have VG/PG/Nic already, Pistachio RY4 can be made with loose concentrates for less than the premix and will also equate to a larger amount. Yes you can not get SC v1, but with SC v2, this is hands down the best DIY mix I have had.

While SC v1 may even make it even better, I do not believe it would justify the cost increase.

That being said, as with all things, if you don't like the price simply don't buy it.

Edit: Funfetti on the other hand I believe can only be improved by SC v1, as with v2 it tastes like custard and ass.

 

[Mike Card]

I personally feel this was an amazing idea to bring these concentrates to SA and we should all be greatful that MR Hardwicks facilitated this for us. those guys who are being negitive about the price should stop vaping, futher your education so one day you can afford to vape. Ok Bye

 

[mad_hatter]

The issue, is that *some* vendors price things at a ridiculous levels and get offended when customer's call them out on it. Whether it's international juice, mods, batteries or concentrates. There's a big enough market, but some vendors are honestly taking the piss with their pricing. Telling *customers* in a price sensitive market to essentially go **** themselves is stupid and childish. Your business will suffer, and we, the customers will find other ways to get what we need without being anally raped on pricing.

 

[BumbleBee]

I've been following this for a while now, I really didn't want to get involved in someone else's salad but I can't take it anymore...

I don't understand what all the fuss is about. If you can't afford it then move on and buy something else. If you think you can make the same product yourself at a fraction of the price without putting in any effort, then do that. If you can make it better AND cheaper in your kitchen, then do that.

@method1 don't you dare remove this from the market because of a few people that don't understand the value of passion, determination and all the time invested in a product like this. This is something that cost blood, sweat and tears. Don't let someone looking to save a few pennies take that away from you!

 

[brotiform]

@BumbleBee FTW

 

[Bearshare]

@BumbleBee we referring to
Enyawreklaw...@ R370 vs $9.99

 

[Neuk]

I won't pretend to know whether R370 is well priced or not, but...

@BumbleBee we referring to
Enyawreklaw...@ R370 vs $9.99

...you can't be serious trying to make a comparison like this?

 

[mad_hatter]

I won't pretend to know whether R370 is well priced or not, but...



...you can't be serious trying to make a comparison like this?

read thread. understand context. then post.

TLDR Summary: Some people price things at ludicrous levels

 

[brotiform]

@BumbleBee we referring to
Enyawreklaw...@ R370 vs $9.99

Please order Funfetti yourself for $9.99 and then show us your total cost for payment , bitcoin fees , shipping and handling (using insured and tracked freight ),duties and VAT

Your argument is entirely invalid and you seem to be very ignorant to the concept of importing products... Especially living in SA.

A $2000 dollar order can easily cost double once customs assess the commercial invoice and volumetric weight.

 

[brotiform]

read thread. understand context. then post.

TLDR Summary: Some people price things at ludicrous levels

Understand importing , dangerous items and local customs.

TLDR : Some things are not as simple as a direct exchange rate conversion

 

[Neuk]

read thread. understand context. then post.

TLDR Summary: Some people price things at ludicrous levels

What context do I need to understand to not think that simply comparing a local price to an overseas price is short sighted and naive?

 

[mad_hatter]

What context do I need to understand to not think that simply comparing a local price to an overseas price is short sighted and naive?

1) Vendors get better than retail pricing. Case in point: the recent trinity glass group buy
2) For DIY, pricing concentrates as per this thread drives the cost of DIY so far up, it makes no sense to DIY anymore.
3) Vendors taking the piss with pricing and pretending they aren't, then get offended when people ask why and threaten to take their toys and go home.

 

[YeOldeOke]

The issue, is that *some* vendors price things at a ridiculous levels and get offended when customer's call them out on it. Whether it's international juice, mods, batteries or concentrates. There's a big enough market, but some vendors are honestly taking the piss with their pricing. Telling *customers* in a price sensitive market to essentially go **** themselves is stupid and childish. Your business will suffer, and we, the customers will find other ways to get what we need without being anally raped on pricing.

This is getting out of hand, but let me respond one last time. Nobody is telling customers to **** themselves. Some however try to point out some issues customers may not be aware of. Perceptions are important.

I keep warning about the China model for a reason. That reason is wider than just my business.

For instance, in the DIY concentrates field, one of the issues customers are unaware of is that some manufacturers impose a condition that you may not rebottle their concentrates, using their brand and product name on your website and/or on the bottle if you sell it below their specified price. That creates a problem for other vendors if they try and stay ethical and someone else sells that brand way below the minimum price, breaking that condition.

The consumer, unaware of this, then judges the rest of the vendors to be rip-off artists. Wrong. They are ethical businesses.

Brands have value for a reason. The manufacturer has a right to protect their brand. I won't lie to my customer, my employees or my suppliers.

 

[mad_hatter]

This is getting out of hand, but let me respond one last time. Nobody is telling customers to **** themselves. Some however try to point out some issues customers may not be aware of. Perceptions are important.

I keep warning about the China model for a reason. That reason is wider than just my business.

For instance, in the DIY concentrates field, one of the issues customers are unaware of is that some manufacturers impose a condition that you may not rebottle their concentrates, using their brand and product name on your website and/or on the bottle if you sell it below their specified price. That creates a problem for other vendors if they try and stay ethical and someone else sells that brand way below the minimum price, breaking that condition.

The consumer, unaware of this, then judges the rest of the vendors to be rip-off artists. Wrong. They are ethical businesses.

Brands have value for a reason. The manufacturer has a right to protect their brand. I won't lie to my customer, my employees or my suppliers.

Which is why I specifically said *Some*, not ALL vendors.

 

[Dobie]

Using PRY4 as an example:

(TPA) Pistachio @R40 (TPA) Ry4 Double @R40 (TPA) Vanilla Swirl @R40 (CAP) Sugar Cookie @R45 (FW) Butterscotch Ripple @R40 (TPA) Sweetener @R40

Totals R245 with shipping let's just make it R300

You are paying R120 or so including shipping more for almost the same amount of juice. What you are getting for that amount:

- Not having to mix al those concentrates together
- Not having to import it yourself
- Possibility of the taste improving due to SC v1

If that makes sense to you, buy it. If not, don't.

EZ

 

[Neuk]

1) Vendors get better than retail pricing. Case in point: the recent trinity glass group buy
2) For DIY, pricing concentrates as per this thread drives the cost of DIY so far up, it makes no sense to DIY anymore.
3) Vendors taking the piss with pricing and pretending they aren't, then get offended when people ask why and threaten to take their toys and go home.

Your first point has some relevance, I still maintain that simply comparing the overseas price to the local price is short sighted and naive.

 

[Bearshare]

Understand importing , dangerous items and local customs.

TLDR : Some things are not as simple as a direct exchange rate conversion

i refer you to : http://www.ecigssa.co.za/enyawreklaw-r370.t27180/#post-415437

 

[brotiform]

i refer you to : http://www.ecigssa.co.za/enyawreklaw-r370.t27180/#post-415437

So you've taken a base price , with probably standard mail , and converted the price?

How is that accurate? Did you account for payment fees?

Dod you account for customs excise , vat and duties?

Again , I believe your argument is invalid as your are basing it on a basic conversion without noting the bigger picture.

As a side question , if you were to bring these products in for resale , what markup would you add to make it a viable exercise financially??

 

[method1]

Hi all

I've taken the decision to remove the concentrates for sale, I've contacted the various vendors who are stocking it and recalling the stock until I have a better plan in place. Thanks for the support.

 

[Yiannaki]

Hi all

I've taken the decision to remove the concentrates for sale, I've contacted the various vendors who are stocking it and recalling the stock until I have a better plan in place. Thanks for the support.

Well that is sad news