Is my charger killing my batteries?

[X-Calibre786]

I'm using a Nitecore New I4 charger. I have 3 sets of Samsung 30Qs and 4 Sony VTC5As. I usually like to charge the 30Qs as sets. In the past 2 weeks, 4 of the batteries (2 of the 30Qs, from different sets and 2 of the VTC5As) charged to full and then the lights on the charger for that specific battery went off. This happened with one battery and then a few days later another etc. These batteries don't power on a mod anymore and when I put them in the charger, the lights don't come on. I assume they're totally dead.

The batteries are all at least 2 years old. I just wonder if it's because of the age of the batteries, or is my charger faulty.

 

[Angelskeeper]

Have you tried reviving/restoring the batteries with the charger?
The I4 charger has that function available. Insert the batteries, press and hold the two buttons on the charger then switch it on.. it will run all the lights on the charger, when it cycles through the display lights, release the buttons, the charger will then start "reviving" the batteries

I had the same issue with my i4 charger, yet it would charge the batteries when using the revive function...
I can only put it down to my i4 charger starting to fail. I bought a new charger and the batteries that kept giving issues on my i4 charger, charged without issues on new charger. ( my batteries are also 2yrs + old)

Hope this helps!

 

[X-Calibre786]

Have you tried reviving/restoring the batteries with the charger?
The I4 charger has that function available. Insert the batteries, press and hold the two buttons on the charger then switch it on.. it will run all the lights on the charger, when it cycles through the display lights, release the buttons, the charger will then start "reviving" the batteries

I had the same issue with my i4 charger, yet it would charge the batteries when using the revive function...
I can only put it down to my i4 charger starting to fail. I bought a new charger and the batteries that kept giving issues on my i4 charger, charged without issues on new charger. ( my batteries are also 2yrs + old)

Hope this helps!

Thanks. Will give that a go.

 

[Spink]

Try a multimeter to see if there is any voltage at all in the dead batts.

If there is completely no voltage, then most likely the CID popped. It's basically a safety measure the breaks off the positive terminal of the battery internally. Happens with old batts or mistreated ones when the internals either start to expand or go out of whack due to age. Heat can also be a cause for the CID to pop. As its basically a piece of metal with tension in it like a spring and when certain conditions are met it will pop up. Or if there is expansion inside the cell it will use force to push it up.

As a batt ages internal resistance goes up. So charging the batt will cause it to heat up more and more as it ages. So it could have popped due to the heat there.

I have had a couple tetsiyi 26650 do that to me in an i2 charger. No other batts so far including 30Q 18650, 40T 21700, ijoy 21700 and lg chocs 18650. The tetsiyi 26650s were by far the oldest of my batts. Then the LG chocs being only 6 months newer. The tetsiyi ones lasted maybe 2-4 years. All gave out at different timings.

Not saying your batts are fakes, but if you for example had some fakes in with the authentic then it would be the case of them giving up earlier than the authentics. Also variations between batches of batteries in the factory can play a part in the life of a batt and/or if the CID will pop.

Reviving an over discharged batt can be done on some chargers, but that's at own risk. Once one of these types of batts goes below a certain voltage point there is risk of crystals forming and causing an internal short which will be a fire hazard. It's really luck of the draw how safe the batt will be to be used again if it has been over discharged and if you are successful in reviving it. But by the sounds of it they weren't over discharged as they died in your charger.

How old are you batts?

Are they used and charged daily or every second day?

CROSS SECTION OF BATTERY TO SHOW THE CID

 

[Spink]

Try a multimeter to see if there is any voltage at all in the dead batts.

If there is completely no voltage, then most likely the CID popped. It's basically a safety measure the breaks off the positive terminal of the battery internally. Happens with old batts or mistreated ones when the internals either start to expand or go out of whack due to age. Heat can also be a cause for the CID to pop. As its basically a piece of metal with tension in it like a spring and when certain conditions are met it will pop up. Or if there is expansion inside the cell it will use force to push it up.

As a batt ages internal resistance goes up. So charging the batt will cause it to heat up more and more as it ages. So it could have popped due to the heat there.

I have had a couple tetsiyi 26650 do that to me in an i2 charger. No other batts so far including 30Q 18650, 40T 21700, ijoy 21700 and lg chocs 18650. The tetsiyi 26650s were by far the oldest of my batts. Then the LG chocs being only 6 months newer. The tetsiyi ones lasted maybe 2-4 years. All gave out at different timings.

Not saying your batts are fakes, but if you for example had some fakes in with the authentic then it would be the case of them giving up earlier than the authentics. Also variations between batches of batteries in the factory can play a part in the life of a batt and/or if the CID will pop.

Reviving an over discharged batt can be done on some chargers, but that's at own risk. Once one of these types of batts goes below a certain voltage point there is risk of crystals forming and causing an internal short which will be a fire hazard. It's really luck of the draw how safe the batt will be to be used again if it has been over discharged and if you are successful in reviving it. But by the sounds of it they weren't over discharged as they died in your charger.

How old are you batts?

Are they used and charged daily or every second day?

CROSS SECTION OF BATTERY TO SHOW THE CID

View attachment 236855

View attachment 236856

You can usually visually inspect if a CID has popped, Just look under the positive terminal and between the terminal legs and see if it is concave or convex. If it's convex and upwards like a mountain then it has popped.

I would NOT try and push it back down to get it to make contact again internally as it isn't safe.

 

[Spink]

Have you tried reviving/restoring the batteries with the charger?
The I4 charger has that function available. Insert the batteries, press and hold the two buttons on the charger then switch it on.. it will run all the lights on the charger, when it cycles through the display lights, release the buttons, the charger will then start "reviving" the batteries

I had the same issue with my i4 charger, yet it would charge the batteries when using the revive function...
I can only put it down to my i4 charger starting to fail. I bought a new charger and the batteries that kept giving issues on my i4 charger, charged without issues on new charger. ( my batteries are also 2yrs + old)

Hope this helps!

I've also had a nitecore charge fail on me.

Could most definitely also be a sign of a charger starting to die. Especially if its several years old.

Some chargers won't charge batts either if the internal resistance is too high (from an aged batt or high mileage cycled batt) for safety reasons. Not 100% sure if nitecore charges do this or not.

 

[Quintusson]

I've had two Nitecore chargers fail on me, hence now having a Golisi charger

 

[Puff the Magic Dragon]

I have also had two Nitecore chargers die on me.

The last charger killed two 30qs and later a VTC5.

I am going to build my own charger.

 

[zadiac]

@X-Calibre786 at what amps do you charge your batteries? 0.5, 1, 2 or 4. The higher your amps, the faster they charge, but that will also shorten the life of the battery. Once in a while when you're in a hurry and need to charge quickly, it's ok to charge at 2amps as the batteries can handle that, but if you're not in a hurry, rather charge at lowest amps possible. High amps can kill lithium-ion bats quickly.

 

[fbb1964]

Great thread thanks. My 4 year old Nitecore i2 is giving me dramas too and I can't decide on what to buy. The charger shows the two 18650 batteries as fully charged but when using them in a mod its only 75% charged.

Found this comprehensive battery charger testing site today. Even Mooch refers to this website as well.Clicking on the column headers sort the table in that column header order. Clicking on the actual battery tester name shows the full test results.

https://lygte-info.dk/info/roundCellChargerIndex UK.html

 

[Puff the Magic Dragon]

As can be seen from the i4 specs below it charges at only 375mA when four batteries are charging.

A lower charge rate is always better for battery longevity however this rate is too low for my liking.


W i4
InputAC 100~240V 50/60Hz 0.25A(max) 10W
DC 9~12V 1A
Output4.35V±1%/4.2V±1%/ 3.7V±1%/1.48V±1%
1500mA x 1 / 750mA x 2 / 500mA x 2 / 375mA x 4
Compatible withLi-ion/IMR/LiFePO4:
10340, 10350, 10440, 10500, 12340, 12500, 12650, 13450, 13500, 13650, 14350, 14430, 14500, 14650, 16500, 16340(RCR123), 16650, 17350, 17500, 17650, 17670, 18350, 18490, 18500, 18650, 22500, 22650, 25500, 26500, 26650
Flat-topped Batteries: 18700, 20700, 21700
Ni-MH(NiCd):
AA, AAA, AAAA, C, D


As Mooch says in the video below, at 7:56, it is OK to charge good batteries that are 15A rated or higher at 1A.

This is why I will be building a 4 bay charger that provides 1A to each battery. If the temp is too high I will add a fan.

 

[zadiac]

I normally charge at 1amp and my batteries last very long. I have, in the past when I had only two batteries, charged at 2 or 4 amps (21700's) when in a hurry, but that happened only a few times. 21700's can be charged at 4amps, but if you do that with every charge, I guarantee you that you won't get the full 500+ charge cycle from them.
I use the Samsung 40T 21700 and even though Samsung rate the max charge current at 6000mAh, I'd never go that high. Can't be good for the bats. The dendrites would grow much faster and the battery life would shorten significantly. You can read about dendrites here.

 

[X-Calibre786]

@X-Calibre786 at what amps do you charge your batteries? 0.5, 1, 2 or 4. The higher your amps, the faster they charge, but that will also shorten the life of the battery. Once in a while when you're in a hurry and need to charge quickly, it's ok to charge at 2amps as the batteries can handle that, but if you're not in a hurry, rather charge at lowest amps possible. High amps can kill lithium-ion bats quickly.

I usually put at least 2 batteries on charge at a time. Almost never a single battery.

 

[X-Calibre786]

Try a multimeter to see if there is any voltage at all in the dead batts.

If there is completely no voltage, then most likely the CID popped. It's basically a safety measure the breaks off the positive terminal of the battery internally. Happens with old batts or mistreated ones when the internals either start to expand or go out of whack due to age. Heat can also be a cause for the CID to pop. As its basically a piece of metal with tension in it like a spring and when certain conditions are met it will pop up. Or if there is expansion inside the cell it will use force to push it up.

As a batt ages internal resistance goes up. So charging the batt will cause it to heat up more and more as it ages. So it could have popped due to the heat there.

I have had a couple tetsiyi 26650 do that to me in an i2 charger. No other batts so far including 30Q 18650, 40T 21700, ijoy 21700 and lg chocs 18650. The tetsiyi 26650s were by far the oldest of my batts. Then the LG chocs being only 6 months newer. The tetsiyi ones lasted maybe 2-4 years. All gave out at different timings.

Not saying your batts are fakes, but if you for example had some fakes in with the authentic then it would be the case of them giving up earlier than the authentics. Also variations between batches of batteries in the factory can play a part in the life of a batt and/or if the CID will pop.

Reviving an over discharged batt can be done on some chargers, but that's at own risk. Once one of these types of batts goes below a certain voltage point there is risk of crystals forming and causing an internal short which will be a fire hazard. It's really luck of the draw how safe the batt will be to be used again if it has been over discharged and if you are successful in reviving it. But by the sounds of it they weren't over discharged as they died in your charger.

How old are you batts?

Are they used and charged daily or every second day?

CROSS SECTION OF BATTERY TO SHOW THE CID

View attachment 236855

View attachment 236856

Haven't gotten around to digging out the toolbox to find the multimeter yet, but I suspect you're right.

 

[Teunh]

I allways charge all my batterys @1A some are 3 years old and still going strong. I use the gyrfalcon all-88

 

[zadiac]

I usually put at least 2 batteries on charge at a time. Almost never a single battery.

I just checked the specs on that charger. You couldn't kill the batteries with it even if you tried. Its highest charge rate is 1.5Amp. Problem must be with your bats. Make sure you purchase authentics when you buy. Fakes can do what you described.

 

[Viper_SA]

I bought two Nitecore D4 chargers a few years back. The one gave up and could only charge on 12V supply. The 2nd one is still going strong since 2015. Only issue I've ever had is that is charges 20700 perfectly, and even Molycell 21700's some other brand 21700's are a tad too long for it. And getting it to charge 26650's is a pain. You have to get them just right to make contact. Other than that it's perfect and never had any issues with it.

 

[Viper_SA]

I bought two Nitecore D4 chargers a few years back. The one gave up and could only charge on 12V supply. The 2nd one is still going strong since 2015. Only issue I've ever had is that is charges 20700 perfectly, and even Molycell 21700's some other brand 21700's are a tad too long for it. And getting it to charge 26650's is a pain. You have to get them just right to make contact. Other than that it's perfect and never had any issues with it.

Just to add to this. I just popped a attery in the charger. Maximum start-up amps is at 750mah. Then it gets lower as the battery nears full capacity.

 

[fbb1964]

Bit the bullet and bought this charger. XTAR VP4 Plus Smart LCD Fast 2A Battery Charger. Very happy with it. Happiness ++. Performs excellent..

Review follows.

Xtar Dragon VP4 Plus Review

I’ll be looking at the Dragon VP4 Plus from XTAR in the review below, this is a four bay battery charging monster that on paper, is the most feature rich charger I have ever seen!

www.planetofthevapes.co.uk

 

[Puff the Magic Dragon]

I made my own charger with the help of @Faiyaz Cheulkar and @MrGSmokeFree . It can charge four batteries at 2A each whereas the XTAR can only charge two at 2A. It doesn't have all the bells and whistles of the XSTAR but added complexity often leads to more to go wrong. I decided to do this because two of my Nitecores died. Strangely the batteries stay far cooler when charging than the Nitecores did, even at two amps vs 1 amp or less.

If you build your own charger you can make it in a modular fashion so that if something fails it is easy to fix that part or replace it. It shouldn't ever be necessary to replace the whole charger. It has the same protections as the commercial chargers. Depending on the power supply you use you can make a six, eight or even more bay charger each bay charging at 2A.

I realise that going this route wouldn't be everyone's cup of coffee but it works for me. I also wouldn't recommend going this route to everyone as a bit of know-how is needed.