Legal advice RE Corona Virus - Any Juris Doctors here?

[Chickenstrip]

I was wondering what the legal ramifications of the Corona Virus "lockdown" might entail.

I recently took off from work (3 months without pay) so that I could further my education in a field that will be used in my current position but more importantly, in a field that I wish to someday transition to.

The course has two options.
3 months full time in class at R50k. Or,
6 months part-time online @ R25K.

I am currently 1/2 way through the course. 6 weeks in. I opted for the onsite course to prevent procrastination, to have access to in-person lessons and to get the 1-1 support that was advertised.

So far there have been some seriously disappointing issues related to false advertising. Namingley:

1-1 mentorship is not accurate. You can book a 1-1 session. But you're tutor needs 3 days to approve this. With 1 task due per day, you can't afford this time delay. And you usually have to work it out yourself.

The lessons are advertised as "class hours from 10-4:30". You can sit on campus and study or work during those hours. But you only get one single hour lesson per day. I have WiFi at home and I need to book mentor sessions days in advance so this is useless for me. An hour is not remotely close to the amount of time needed for the course work, both for understanding and asking questions. There is never time for QnA afterward as the next lesson is back to back. You need to leave on the hour even if the class started late.

Now the campus has been shut down. In the peak of the course's difficulty.

I spent R25000 more than the online students to attend class. I paid in full upfront. And they've decided to switch us to online students.

Do I have an option to get some of my money back? I want to complete the course. Even if online. But I don't agree that they are entitled to keep the additional R25K.

If we split the course in two, and I've paid R12,500 towards the first 6 weeks. Is there any way for me to recover the R12,5k? Or is it just tough luck it's the Coronaviruses fault?

They definitely won't let the issue go by lightly and will fight to the bone not to refund. So I'd rather not pursue the issue if I'd be wasting my time.

Would it be possible to take it to small claims? Or is it simply a waste of my time? I'm busy reading the extensive Ts and Cs. So I'll see what they say. But I did study a year of law as part of my degree and from what I recall one can not be signed out of the law. TCS and Cs cannot override the CPA or any other legislature.

Would anyone care to chime in? For what it's worth. Although not a life-changer, R12.5k is not a small amount. It could make a significant difference for me.

Thanks for any input.

 

[vicTor]

hi have you approached the institution with your issue ?

 

[Chickenstrip]

hi have you approached the institution with your issue ?

Not yet. I want to gather as much information as possible before I approach them. I've only just found out we'll be switched over to online.

 

[Darius1332]

I dropped out of law in third year, so take with pinch of salt. Seems that it is breach of contract since you cant have the class anymore, however you have to check their terms for things like government mandated shutdown. Many service companies have a clause that if the reason is out of their control you are screwed. If nothing is mentioned you have a case, or if only limited cases are given and this is not specified.

I unfortunately think companies will argue this is a 'natural disaster' but costs for small claims court is pretty low, just check the claim limit in your area.

 

[mad_hatter]

Force Majeure

Sent from my HD1901 using Tapatalk

 

[Chickenstrip]

Force Majeure

Sent from my HD1901 using Tapatalk

Thanks for this. I take it they would be able to claim this and I'd be SOOL. Do you think it's reasonable to ask for the course to be delayed until such time that I can resume under regular circumstances? Or would they be able to deny that based on the above?

 

[mad_hatter]

Thanks for this. I take it they would be able to claim this and I'd be SOOL. Do you think it's reasonable to ask for the course to be delayed until such time that I can resume under regular circumstances? Or would they be able to deny that based on the above?

I doubt they would agree but you have nothing to lose by asking

Sent from my HD1901 using Tapatalk

 

[Chickenstrip]

I doubt they would agree but you have nothing to lose by asking

Sent from my HD1901 using Tapatalk

We're under a plethora of different laws. English common law and Roman Dutch law to name two. Under English common law Force Majeure needs to be predefined within the contract.

This is not going to ever get to a stage where lawyers will be involved though. So I suppose I may need to just reason with them until a compromise can be made.

 

[Silver]

Hi @Chickenstrip

Sorry to hear about your situation, it sucks

A couple of comments from my side

Firstly, it sounds like they were misleading in how they advertised the onsite course. I.e. only 1 hour lesson in the whole day - I wonder if that was mentioned somewhere upfront and you may have missed it? Anyway, that is not cool - and that is an entirely separate matter to the whole Coronavirus cancellation issue.

Regarding cancellation from Coronavirus :
This is an exceptional situation and I doubt this kind of thing happens to them frequently - if at all. So if I were you I would just explain to them the reason you did the onsite course and that you do understand they have to switch to online. But explain to them that is not your preference. And the money you have paid means a lot to you. You shouldnt be the only loser here. I think its fair for them to give you some kind of refund. So you lose a bit and they lose a bit. It should be some kind of compromise. Maybe they can throw in some extra "online meetings" with the tutor to "make up" for the part you are losing out on. Discuss it with them, try negotiate.

All the best and let us know

 

[Resistance]

We're under a plethora of different laws. English common law and Roman Dutch law to name two. Under English common law Force Majeure needs to be predefined within the contract.

This is not going to ever get to a stage where lawyers will be involved though. So I suppose I may need to just reason with them until a compromise can be made.

You got a case.
All educational centres will shut down due to unforeseen circumstances but will re-open and continue as normal.
I feel you should have a choice to continue as per your wish (full time)at the institution when circumstances change and revert to normal due to you choosing that option when there was no particular need to spend your full day there and could have chosen the online course.
Seeing that you made the choice of paying double the fees to do the full time course and the fact that you have taken unpaid study leave to do this makes your case valid.
Now you just need to speak to them and hear what they say before you decide on your next step.

 

[Hooked]

Although your situation is different from the one which I was in (summary to follow) all that I can suggest is that if possible stand your ground for some kind of compensation, as @Silver suggested. "The wheel which squeaks the loudest gets the most grease."

This is what happened to me and why I say stand your ground.
I registered for my Masters at a university in SA. Mentorship from the university was stated in the "contract", but I heard nothing from them, nor were my emails, messages or phone calls answered.

I asked for a full refund, having decided to rather register elsewhere. They refused and pointed out that it clearly states that no refunds will be given after registration. I was aware of that clause, however, I maintained - and stated as such in an email to them - that I agreed to pay, which I did. They agreed to offer a service, which they did not. Thus, I was not getting what I had paid for.

(So far as I'm concerned a university, or any educational institution, is not above Consumer Law. You are the consumer. You pay for a product (mentoring, tuition, whatever) and if they don't give that to you, it is no different from paying for something in a shop but then not being allowed to take the item!)

They wouldn't budge - until I sent them another email stating that if the matter were not resolved I would take further action.

Voila! Within a few days I received a cheque (this was long before EFTs were the modus operandi) for the full amount.

 

[Chickenstrip]

Thanks for everyone's input here. I've had a chat to some of the other students. We've decided to wait out the lockdown situation and carry on as usual. Hopefully when our course is over we'll be out of the craziness and be able to go and negotiate with the company. I think they're going to be fair about the situation by extending our due dates and allowing us the ability to qualify and submit work after the course ends.

I'll be making sure I get out what I feel is fair. So as long as I'm able to complete the course and am satisfied with the outcome then I don't see much reason to pursue any refunds. My biggest concern was having a deadline and not being able to complete the work in time. But they've eased that out for us.

I'll be sure to report back. But communication will be very iffy till this Corona thing calms down. So I'll bring this up with them and evaluate the situation at a later stage.

Thanks for your input everyone. Please feel free to use this thread for any other questions regarding legal issues related to Corona.

 

[Hooked]

Thanks for everyone's input here. I've had a chat to some of the other students. We've decided to wait out the lockdown situation and carry on as usual. Hopefully when our course is over we'll be out of the craziness and be able to go and negotiate with the company. I think they're going to be fair about the situation by extending our due dates and allowing us the ability to qualify and submit work after the course ends.

I'll be making sure I get out what I feel is fair. So as long as I'm able to complete the course and am satisfied with the outcome then I don't see much reason to pursue any refunds. My biggest concern was having a deadline and not being able to complete the work in time. But they've eased that out for us.

I'll be sure to report back. But communication will be very iffy till this Corona thing calms down. So I'll bring this up with them and evaluate the situation at a later stage.

Thanks for your input everyone. Please feel free to use this thread for any other questions regarding legal issues related to Corona.

@Chickenstrip Better not "bring this up with them". Are you aware that nausea is sometimes a symptom of Corona?