Longfills, Steeping, sun worship and other gibberish

[IJA]

Hi fellow vapers. So I pretty much stopped smoking about 6 years ago (I still smoke when I play golf - yes, yes I know - lets not go there.)
Recently I have found myself faced with the new mixes, the result of the tax laws and the art of 'steeping'. The first juice I bought was horrendous. No taste, scary looking viscous mess that made me want to play more golf. I'm no techie vaper, just give me the juice and lets move on. This bad experience pushed me back to DTL. Coughed so bad I nearly lost my vision in one eye. Back to low key DTL. Now I see "mature" or steeped juice is hard to come buy (in dessert flavours). Everything is mixed there or DIY.
Everyone has their own version of what is the best method for mixing / steeping, where it should be allowed to rest / put it in the sun, get rid of bubbles...etc etc - gibberish!!!
Whats the deal with this?, is anyone experiencing the same thing?. How do we know when the juices are ready or is this a trial and error performance.
I have always used Cinna Bomb by liquid fusions DTL12. Now thats a mess. Any suggestions for a similar product. Apologies for the long and dishevelled post - its late and i need to book a tee time.

 

[Paul33]

Hey @IJA

I have been mixing a LONG time and I know there are some juices out there that require a months steep while being aligned with Orions Belt and tuned into Uranus but in my experience most juices are fine after a week, especially the long fills that are "pre steeped" for want of a better phrase as the concentrates have already had time to do their thing with each other for a while!

I used to do fancy things for steeping but now it involves mixing, shaking and leaving it in the cupboard. nothing else is needed personally.

 

[IJA]

Hey @IJA

I have been mixing a LONG time and I know there are some juices out there that require a months steep while being aligned with Orions Belt and tuned into Uranus but in my experience most juices are fine after a week, especially the long fills that are "pre steeped" for want of a better phrase as the concentrates have already had time to do their thing with each other for a while!

I used to do fancy things for steeping but now it involves mixing, shaking and leaving it in the cupboard. nothing else is needed personally.

Thanks for the info Paul33 - I will then leave some of these in the cupboard for a while and see what happens.

 

[Paul33]

Thanks for the info Paul33 - I will then leave some of these in the cupboard for a while and see what happens.

Which ones did you get out of curiousity

 

[IJA]

Which ones did you get out of curiousity

They were flavours by Liquid Fusions. I have used the same ones for years but they don't taste the same anymore.

 

[Baxteen]

I have only been making my own juice for a bit over a year.
but I have always approached it from a scientific point of view.

PG is Photo sensitive. 99% of flavors are in PG. pg goes into sun light and it will eventually go bad. its just a sad reality of it.

so leave the Juice out of the sun. there is some merit in letting the juice stay at a temp slightly above 30C. it makes the VG less viscus and that allows for the flavors to combine slightly faster. but that is such a minute difference that I would not even bother. keeping water at a stable temp for 3 or so days while keeping your juice in it can turn a 7 day steep into a 3 day steep but I would rather take the 7 day cubbord steep than do that effort.

 

[IJA]

I have only been making my own juice for a bit over a year.
but I have always approached it from a scientific point of view.

PG is Photo sensitive. 99% of flavors are in PG. pg goes into sun light and it will eventually go bad. its just a sad reality of it.

so leave the Juice out of the sun. there is some merit in letting the juice stay at a temp slightly above 30C. it makes the VG less viscus and that allows for the flavors to combine slightly faster. but that is such a minute difference that I would not even bother. keeping water at a stable temp for 3 or so days while keeping your juice in it can turn a 7 day steep into a 3 day steep but I would rather take the 7 day cubbord steep than do that effort.

Makes absolute sense, thank you for taking the time to share.

 

[ddk1979]

@IJA
I have been mixing for a few years and have found that the basic steps are all the same, viz., mix, shake and store in a DARK cupboard for a time.
I've found that everyone has their own preferences regarding how long they store (steep) and whether or not they give a shake during this time.
I've spoken to a few professional mixologists and their advice has always been ... the longer the better, especially with dessert juices.
Initially I mixed, shook and then steeped for 1-2 weeks but found that the juice was still too rough for my liking.
After some experimentation, what works FOR ME, is that I steep for a total of 6 weeks and give it additional quick shake about 3 times over this period, i.e., an additional quick shake every 2 weeks.
.

 

[Rob Fisher]

That is good advice for most juices, except for Red Pill. Red Pill is better the fresher it is. I mix it and store it in the fridge to stop steeping. If you are into menthol juices, then Red Pill is the one!

 

[Quintusson]

After years of mixing I have found that there is no real 'hard and fast' rule for steeping. Sure, the averages can equate to something like fruits being ready in 2-4 days and desserts in 2-3 weeks, but there are anomalies as well. I have a few fruit flavours that have to stand at least a week, else it's still a bit rough around the edges still, but others which are good to go a day or two later. In fact, years ago I had a fruit flavour which within the first three weeks was absolutely ghastly but then the vape fairies sprinkle their fairy dust over it one night and it becomes a thing of absolute joy (but no jokes, you did NOT want to try that one before then...).

Desserts do require more time unfortunately, and it is more due to their complexity and the addition of creams, etc. But then again, my ADV (Pure Vanilla) has to stand at least 3 months (it's decent enough after 1 month, but so much more dreamy after 3). Hence why I always have about 4-6 Litres of the thing standing around at any given time.

One-shots however, as @Paul33 mentioned, are typically already well steeped and thus the addition of PG, VG and nic requires a lesser steeping time, but a steep nonetheless.

So it's very much juice dependant, and also on your perception of when a flavour is ready or when it needs more time.

As for steeping. Mix, shake-shake-shake-shake, leave in a dark area for specified amount of time. You can shake in between if you like, but always, always shake again before you decant into a smaller bottle.

 

[Arno "NoxFord" Steyn]

I find making my own long fill is very useful IE mixing my concentrates to ratio as it would be added to any amount of Base then I tend to only add nic to a liquid days before it's ready to be vaped but all of this comes from experimentation and understanding why some juices are harsh or underflavored. I must say though that DIY liquids are not as complex as some would think however it can become a rabbit whole once you embark on the epic quest to find the perfect (Insert Flavor Here) juice.

 

[IJA]

I find making my own long fill is very useful IE mixing my concentrates to ratio as it would be added to any amount of Base then I tend to only add nic to a liquid days before it's ready to be vaped but all of this comes from experimentation and understanding why some juices are harsh or underflavored. I must say though that DIY liquids are not as complex as some would think however it can become a rabbit whole once you embark on the epic quest to find the perfect (Insert Flavor Here) juice.

I believe you. I've been down a few rabbit holes and I just don't have the patience or the talent to go down this one. I do believe that you need to trust the source of the juice you buy, or the place from which you buy it. We all know vaping is not healthy but we need to be vigilant as to what goes into these juices. Personally I think we don't know enough, or rather I don't know enough. Still hoping its better than another Camel plain

 

[Alisson880]

Hi fellow vapers. So I pretty much stopped smoking about 6 years ago (I still smoke when I play golf - yes, yes I know - lets not go there.)
Recently I have found myself faced with the new mixes, the result of the tax laws and the art of 'steeping'. The first juice I bought was horrendous. No taste, scary looking viscous mess that made me want to play more golf. I'm no techie vaper, just give me the juice and lets move on. This bad experience pushed me back to DTL. Coughed so bad I nearly lost my vision in one eye. Back to low key DTL. Now I see "mature" or steeped juice is hard to come buy (in dessert flavours). Everything is mixed there or DIY.
Everyone has their own version of what is the best method for mixing / steeping, where it should be allowed to rest / put it in the sun, get rid of bubbles...etc etc - gibberish!!!
Whats the deal with this?, is anyone experiencing the same thing?. How do we know when the juices are ready or is this a trial and error performance.
I have always used Cinna Bomb by liquid fusions DTL12. Now thats a mess. Any suggestions for a similar product. Apologies for the long and dishevelled post - its late and i need to book a tee time.

Hi, to stopped smoking is good, me too stopped it but I need something, my problem is solved when i used vape devices.

 

[kolakidd]

I have been mixing since 2020. I mix around 8l at a time in 1l bottles, all dessert flavours. All my base liquids are stored in cupboards/fridges or bought fresh before mixing.

I generally let the initial mix steep for 14 days.
I refill 8 100ml bottles from the that mix.

So essentially the liquid left behind in the larger bottles continues to steep. I have a rather simple contraption that simulates a centrifuge to keep mixing them.

Anyway. To get to the point. I honestly don’t notice an improvement in flavour over time as I refill bottles, and it takes me 2-3 months to get through the whole batch.

That’s just me though. I do think perception of flavour is subjective, and the vaping hardware does impact taste.

 

[CraigMooch]

You'll also notice most new releases are focusing on shake and vape mixes, certain concentrates work better than others. I am even working on some desserts that off the shake give the full profile and only need 3 days to get where they are properly developed.

This though is a whole relook at concentrates as some play better together for less steeping than others, so development isn't just about the flavour end product but also the steep time taken into account now.

So why some old favorites may need a long steep but many new releases will give that satisfying vape after only a few hours.

 

[gaser43]

Fantastic posts! Loved every one.

 

[zadiac]

Especially dessert flavors need more time to steep usually than most fruit flavors. Tobacco flavors also need a long time to steep. This is my own experience and preference, doesn't mean it's true, just my experience. One month or even two or three if you really want an "aged whiskey" type flavor experience.

 

[Arno "NoxFord" Steyn]

So my rule of thumb is if it's subtle flavorings that your adding to something I tend to add 2 days per flavor.

IE. Just a strawberry I'll vape the next day
If I add a Bavarian cream to it on day one, I'll add 2 days and vape it on day 3
If I add a Graham crust to it that mix on day one I'll add another 2 days and let the mix sit for 5 days from mixing before vaping.

I'll also pocket steep all my mixes on the day they were mixed and shake them once every hour, after day 1 I'll shake them once or twice a day and leave them on a bookshelf in a cooler room of the house out of the sun before vaping.
I also have a tendency to make 4x 100ml of my favorite juice and not add my nicotine to it on the day it's mixed, then I'll come back around 3 or 4 days before I want to start vaping a bottle and add my nicotine to it the pre-mixed juice (I'll add a sticker to a bottle without Nic marking it as base only) and this will start my pocket steep and shake tradition after adding nicotine for the new juice entering rotation. (I do prefer using a VG based nicotine since it does not have the peppery harshness of a PG nicotine when I'm mixing my 9mg MTL juices so maybe a PG binds faster IDK I'm not a scientist I just love saving money and DIYing juice)

 

[Rooigevaar]

Speed "Steeping" tips (If you are going to finish the bottle fast) so not for long term DIY

1. Use some old already steeped juice to "seed" the new juice
2. Agitation and heat, shake it up and drive around with it in your car. ( This will make the juice go bad if over done and not recommended for batches that is supposed to last for months) Good way to get the bottle ready quick and then finish it quick.
3. If you have an ultra sonic cleaner drop it in there (Same rules apply as point 2.) Results may vary, some juices dont like it.

If using long fills, the best advice I can give is to plan ahead. Especially with Desserts and Complex tobaccos. Buy next month's juice this month and let it sit in the dark. Repeat next month.

Long Fills are challenging, especially if you have a complex juice that needs a good steep time. Good Luck!! And beware too much "Golf " may just give you a handicap.