All that testing has been done as far as I know. Here is some more logic should you care to read through it all: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/threads/the-end-of-microcoils.675754/
My journey into temperature control
- Thread starter n0ugh7_zw
- Start date
See link in my post above, @Silver.
Going through it now.
hmmm, guess compressed coils aren't all that bad... :/
Started reading the first page or two and saw SuperXDrifter, so I thought i was in Reosmods lol
But then I realised there were 39 pages!
In just a few days. Eek
Havent gone through it all but surely very interesting...
@Andre, have you gone through it all by any chance? If so, was there anything definitive that came out of the discussions?
This ECF post towards the end probably sums it up well:
I've read through this whole thread in the last week or so and there's been a lot of food for thought here. Before this thread, I've never given much thought about the coils I build, more interested in getting them functional and semi long lasting. It's never really crossed my mind to care why or how they work, just that they do.
There have been a few people that really seem like they know what they are talking about, but this is the internet, we are all semi anonymous so I can't really say that they are the experts that they seem to be, but they have also given links to data sheets that do back up what they are saying. So for me, I will give them the benefit of doubt, and what they are saying makes sense to me especially with the data sheets backing it up.
When I first started rebuilding my coils I had a lot of trouble with consistency. I only use a couple of devices and they both use the same coils. Reading posts / tutorials from MacTechVpr is how I really learned the mechanics of consistent coils, now 9 out of 10 coils I build work the first time, that 10th coil is probably more to blame on my 60 year old eyes and hands than on technique.
The method I use for cleaning really hasn't changed from the way I cleaned CE/2 carts, I wash with hot water, dry burn, and if it's stubborn, re-wash with pure grain alcohol and dry burn again. Now the only real difference is if the gunk is stubborn, I rip out the coil and rebuild.
With the information that has been posted here by Magaro, Allen Traveler, Druckle, and others I am going to pay a bit more attention on how hot the coils get when I dry burn, but I'm not going to stop dry burning. I'm also going to continue pulsing my coils before I wick them as the meter only tells me so much about the quality of the coil, the visual look for hot spots tells me so much more.
This thread has been very educational for me and I thank everyone that has participated.
And this ECF post maybe, @Silver:
None of the elements in Kanthal A1 have a significant vapor pressure at the temperatures a coil reaches during vaping. The thin aluminum oxide scale that forms on heating is very effective at protecting the coil from further oxidation, ionic diffusion and chemical leaching. Torturing a coil with extended white-hot burns will inevitably consume some of the aluminum and chromium in the alloy, and change the nature of the surface. Don't do it. But lightly oxidizing your Kanthal coil is probably a good idea. It serves to help seal the surface of the coil, trapping and protecting the iron, aluminum and chromium beneath it.
I, too, appreciate what Dr. Farsalinos has done for the vaping community. But I think he may not have all the facts straight in this case. His mention of "metal molecules" bothers me. Metal alloys are not made up of molecules. They are crystalline arrangements, ordered and/or disordered, of metal atoms. Heating can cause many changes in an alloy's microstructure, but you are not "basically destroying the bonds between the metal molecules", because they don't exist.
Absolutely, research is needed to determine the safest alloys for vape coils and their proper care and feeding. But common sense dictates, at least to me, that a properly oxidized Kanthal coil is probably safer than an unoxidized one.
None of the elements in Kanthal A1 have a significant vapor pressure at the temperatures a coil reaches during vaping. The thin aluminum oxide scale that forms on heating is very effective at protecting the coil from further oxidation, ionic diffusion and chemical leaching. Torturing a coil with extended white-hot burns will inevitably consume some of the aluminum and chromium in the alloy, and change the nature of the surface. Don't do it. But lightly oxidizing your Kanthal coil is probably a good idea. It serves to help seal the surface of the coil, trapping and protecting the iron, aluminum and chromium beneath it.
I, too, appreciate what Dr. Farsalinos has done for the vaping community. But I think he may not have all the facts straight in this case. His mention of "metal molecules" bothers me. Metal alloys are not made up of molecules. They are crystalline arrangements, ordered and/or disordered, of metal atoms. Heating can cause many changes in an alloy's microstructure, but you are not "basically destroying the bonds between the metal molecules", because they don't exist.
Absolutely, research is needed to determine the safest alloys for vape coils and their proper care and feeding. But common sense dictates, at least to me, that a properly oxidized Kanthal coil is probably safer than an unoxidized one.
Thanks @Andre
I think part of the problem with this whole Dr F. "Dry burn scare" is that he is trusted by many and that in that interview he just said the molecular structure of the metal breaks down but he didnt go into much more detail.
I would be surprised if he doesnt follow up on this and go into more detail on it or suggest that more research needs to be done.
I was talking to @Yiannaki this weekend briefly about this and we wondered if the negative of not being able to dry burn nickel temperature control coils may turn out to be a good thing...
you can dry burn nickel... you just need to be super gentle, getting the atty warm, then sticking it on the mod whilst its hot, and telling it, its a new coil, will skew the temp readings enough for you to get it to glow. Wouldn't go past about 15W with 28g nickel, and very, very short bursts.
Sorry, you are right
What we were saying was that the very low ohm nickel builds are usually not able to be fired on normal power mode or in other regulated mods because they are too low in resistance
And firing them in temperature mode as I understand it doesnt make them glow red as we would normally do with Kanthal because the temp is limited
I am of course not talking here from any point of experience whatsoever @n0ugh7_zw
Just very interested in getting into temp control but havent yet taken the plunge
Sorry, you are right
I am of course not talking here from any point of experience whatsoever @n0ugh7_zw
Just very interested in getting into temp control but havent yet taken the plunge
all good
Sorry i've developed a bad habit of editing posts extensively after people have read them (unintentionally)But ye, you just need to bulls*** the chip
I have said many a times that the high wattage/high heat phenomenon is contra the science. Temperature control imo brings balance. But for your trouble all you get is no dry hits (which is a very good thing) and, thus, a nice constant vape. If one is not a very low ohm or very high wattage vaper and have your wicking (if appropriate) down pat, I see no real need for temperature control. With my bottom fed devices I never experience dry hits and do not need very low resistance/high wattage.
The data on Kanthal A1 at this stage is far more comprehensive than on Nickel and Titanium as far as I could make out. Some do argue that Titanium is the best. At least it seems to be easier to work with than Nickel.
Off course, non of the above will prevent us, myself included, from trying those type of devices. For me, however, the durability and simplicity of mechs with the convenience of bottom feeding still fulfill all my vaping needs and more.
I've had luck using twisted 28g kanth. And nick. 7 wraps if I remember correctly .
Been there, done that and now it's all I use on my ipv4!
Don't give up on the twist mix my friend, I'm far from a coil master but imo I get better flavor from a 28g combo w/7 wraps on a 3mm rod at 0.27ohms .If you hit it right I think you'll agree. Good luck!
How do you know when you are allergic to nickel?
Ask Johan I've read his comments on this somewhere on the forum.
well, i was getting head aches, and having stomach problems. They stopped as soon as i stopped using the nickel. Might be coincidence, might not. But tbh nickel is a PITA, will revisit temp control when i have some titanium wire to play with.
Sorry to hear it.will or have you tried TI?
I'm very keen for Ti, but getting it here where I live is a bit of a mission. So I'm having to wait for a vendor that has easy shipping options to get it in stock. I did use the Ti coil on the eGo Mega that came with my eVic VT, and that was pretty good.
Do you have access to eBay ?That's where I'll get it.
PayPal is a major headache here. Sanctions and all
(they didn't get the memo about them being targeted sanctions)It leaves the list of suppliers pretty slim.
I've placed an order with Evolution Vaping in the UK, if that pans out, then it'll be a matter of waiting till the get Ti.
In the states, pretty much all the vendors that take payment from regular credit cards don't want to ship to Zimbabwe by post (DHL, FedEx, etc... are mad expensive).
Only US store that I've come across so far that plays nice is VapeJoose.
Sucks bro',I get some deals on it.I could send some in a letter,a few feet.I'd gladly send you a roll if the post to S.A. weren't so exorbitant as I found out sending a P.I.F. starter kit, it'd be twice the worth of the wirePayPal is a major headache here. Sanctions and all
ye shipping is pretty hectic. this UK vendor seems to do economical shipping, about $6.00 to ship and RDA from the UK to here.
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