https://witbanknews.co.za/111437/3-months-jail-time-smoking-home/amp
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New smoking bill
- Thread starter Resistance
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They linked smoking and vaping so this affects vapers too.
...your thoughts please...
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...your thoughts please...
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Eish if this Bill is passed I'm going to be in jail for a long time
That 5 meter rule will not fly.
Just looking at my complex, the gardens are about the size of half a cricket pitch. At no point is it further than 5 meters from doors or windows. But I will be allowed to braai on my stoep? Explain that to me?
And what about people living in blocks of flats?
Just looking at my complex, the gardens are about the size of half a cricket pitch. At no point is it further than 5 meters from doors or windows. But I will be allowed to braai on my stoep? Explain that to me?
And what about people living in blocks of flats?
Ya it's bollocks. Just like I would never bother my neighbour smoking in his garden, or even mine for that matter, nobody will stop me.
When Goverments pass stupid laws, they need to be treated as such.
In public areas, you will have to adhere to it, but nobody is going to come arrest you at your complex. Idiot Goverment.
Its like weed - I've smelt it at every complex I've ever stayed at. This is JHB after all. Phone the cops to say you smell it, and see how far you'll get with that.
I don't see anything about 5m in the bill. Nor do I see anything about smoking being prohibited in all buildings. All buildings used by the public, yes. But your home is not used by the public.
I'm also not sure I understand the article's point that plain packaging will make it easier for illicit dealers. My understanding is that these people aren't counterfeiters, they are selling their own branded cigarettes from other countries but are evading duties. They are not selling fake Marlboros, they are selling XYZ brand. But because it is smuggled in through the border, and not sold in a retailer like PnP or Spar, they are able to evade tax. Some of these illicit brands are selling for R10 a pack, the tax alone on a legal pack is R17. I don't see how plain packaging is going to influence that at all. As we have seen in the counterfeit juice industry, copying a label closely enough to fool consumers is not a problem for counterfeiters, regardless of how simple or complicated the label is.
What would make it harder for the illicit dealers is if all legal packs had some identifying mark, like a hologram, which denoted it as a legal product. But that assumes that smokers are going to care enough to only use legal products. I don't believe they do. Many of these illicit packs are sold to illiterate farm workers and such. They are not savvy enough to look for holograms or other marks of authenticity. Plus they don't earn enough to buy legal cigs. They will always go for the cheap option.
I'm also not sure I understand the article's point that plain packaging will make it easier for illicit dealers. My understanding is that these people aren't counterfeiters, they are selling their own branded cigarettes from other countries but are evading duties. They are not selling fake Marlboros, they are selling XYZ brand. But because it is smuggled in through the border, and not sold in a retailer like PnP or Spar, they are able to evade tax. Some of these illicit brands are selling for R10 a pack, the tax alone on a legal pack is R17. I don't see how plain packaging is going to influence that at all. As we have seen in the counterfeit juice industry, copying a label closely enough to fool consumers is not a problem for counterfeiters, regardless of how simple or complicated the label is.
What would make it harder for the illicit dealers is if all legal packs had some identifying mark, like a hologram, which denoted it as a legal product. But that assumes that smokers are going to care enough to only use legal products. I don't believe they do. Many of these illicit packs are sold to illiterate farm workers and such. They are not savvy enough to look for holograms or other marks of authenticity. Plus they don't earn enough to buy legal cigs. They will always go for the cheap option.
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In related news, it looks like the UK has killed squonking. The TPD rules were interpreted that the tank only had to be sold with a 2ml tank installed, the package could include a tank extension or spare glass with bigger capacity. But they've closed that loophole and applied it to squonk bottles too. So you can't package a squonker with a bottle more than 2ml, which is just insane.
The one way around it is to package a squonker with a 2ml bottle, or no bottle at all. And then make it to fit a generic silicon or other plastic bottle that is also used for other purposes besides vaping. Which actually does make sense. If squonk manufacturers took a look at the multi-purpose bottles available, picked one that is widely available and then designed their squonkers around it, they could skirt the regulations that way. It would be a pain having to buy your bottle(s) separately from the kit. But on the plus side, having a universal squonk bottle would allow bottles to be interchangeable between different squonkers.
The one way around it is to package a squonker with a 2ml bottle, or no bottle at all. And then make it to fit a generic silicon or other plastic bottle that is also used for other purposes besides vaping. Which actually does make sense. If squonk manufacturers took a look at the multi-purpose bottles available, picked one that is widely available and then designed their squonkers around it, they could skirt the regulations that way. It would be a pain having to buy your bottle(s) separately from the kit. But on the plus side, having a universal squonk bottle would allow bottles to be interchangeable between different squonkers.
My issue is vaping and smoking is not the same thing so why is it treated as such.
When you buy vape gear(hardware) it does not contain nicotine so why is it packaged as such. I am the one who will fill it with nicotine infused vape juice.
This has not been corrected yet and they will include vaping as smoking which to me says vapers and smokers will suffer the same fate.
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When you buy vape gear(hardware) it does not contain nicotine so why is it packaged as such. I am the one who will fill it with nicotine infused vape juice.
This has not been corrected yet and they will include vaping as smoking which to me says vapers and smokers will suffer the same fate.
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Thanks for sharing this @Drikusw
Its a good article
Great comment from that article below:
The new bill needs to treat reduced risk products differently to conventional smoking and combustible tobacco.
Yes, at least someone who is talking sense. Hopefully some people take note.
Its very motivating to see these articles appear at this stage. We don't have much longer to go.
I don't get the reasoning... doesn't make any sense to me?
A small piece I wrote today.
Ok so hows this for a possible scenario.
Our esteemed health representative has just been over seas with his entourage to some meaningless world summit. Now imagine. This moron sits at a dinner table with PHD MD HIV STP BBFGG ministers. Our rep on the other hand can neither read nor write properly and could even have a forged degree. They, being the other ministers, are looking for support in some forum to vote on smoking. At this conference it is pointed out to our designated moron that the good old RSA is 180th on the list of the baddest countries as far as smoking laws are concerned. So he decides to vote with them
Meanwhile back in good old RSA our entire health system is falling to pieces, no, has fallen to pieces. Imagine if millions of rand of equipment and billions of rand were somehow misplaced. Imagine if they were selling the free ARV (aids drugs) across the border.
Now imagine the finance minister face when the health rep tells him 'we are going to stop the people smoking" and he reveals that 57 Billion in cigarette sin tax is about to go out the window but the grant dependents want and need more money. Meanwhile back in the good old RSA
1. Crime is escalating daily
2. Eskom is failing
3. SAA is bankrupt
4. The drinking water is contaminated
5. The rivers and dams are polluted
6. Unemployment is just that
7. Mines are failing
8. Farm murders dont even make the news anymore
9. The health system is dusted
10. SABC clings onto their bankrupt strategy
etc etc etc
So hypothetically we could argue that there are far more important things the government should be spending some effort on. Could it possibly be that the people who hypocrtically support this bill are in fact non smokers. Could it be that our representative is a non smoker. Our represenative is in fact so gung ho that they have decided to include VAPING under the cigarette laws. Possibly, in about 20 years from now someone will become a health representative who actually understands that Vapor and smoke are two different things and that there is scientific evidence confirming that second hand Vape is totally harmless and actually less toxic than the air we breath.
This is all conjecture however and the chances of the above scenario having played out or going to play out is unlikely and nothing more than speculation and a fabrication of my own imagination.
I will leave you all with the following. There is not one recorded incident in history of an individual smoking himself high on nicotine laced cigarettes and driving home and causing a fatal accident whist in this state or arriving home and beating up his wife and kids whilst under the influence of cigarette smoke but then I do suppose the healthy non smokers like a beer or two occasionally, so lets leave those laws alone. The same self righteous hypocrites sit at the upmarket restaurants with their R120 000.00 buck mountain bikes leaning up against the pole. Dressed in their offensive rubber crotch revealing shorty pants and shoes manufactured by children under forced labor conditions in the East, and reflect on their "health breakfast" which was delivered to the shop in a truck belching diesel smoke and fumes. The health breakfast sprayed full of water carrying coli, chemical fertilizers and genetically modified to stay fresh.
As I said this is all conjecture nothing more. It's hypothetically speaking.
I am so glad this is getting the attention and priority it deserves. I cant wait to have thousands of police patrolling the suburbs looking for those criminal smoking monsters. Clearly patrolling the township suburbs will be a piece of cake .... hmmmm is this law going to apply to everyone i wonder.
Ok so hows this for a possible scenario.
Our esteemed health representative has just been over seas with his entourage to some meaningless world summit. Now imagine. This moron sits at a dinner table with PHD MD HIV STP BBFGG ministers. Our rep on the other hand can neither read nor write properly and could even have a forged degree. They, being the other ministers, are looking for support in some forum to vote on smoking. At this conference it is pointed out to our designated moron that the good old RSA is 180th on the list of the baddest countries as far as smoking laws are concerned. So he decides to vote with them
Meanwhile back in good old RSA our entire health system is falling to pieces, no, has fallen to pieces. Imagine if millions of rand of equipment and billions of rand were somehow misplaced. Imagine if they were selling the free ARV (aids drugs) across the border.
Now imagine the finance minister face when the health rep tells him 'we are going to stop the people smoking" and he reveals that 57 Billion in cigarette sin tax is about to go out the window but the grant dependents want and need more money. Meanwhile back in the good old RSA
1. Crime is escalating daily
2. Eskom is failing
3. SAA is bankrupt
4. The drinking water is contaminated
5. The rivers and dams are polluted
6. Unemployment is just that
7. Mines are failing
8. Farm murders dont even make the news anymore
9. The health system is dusted
10. SABC clings onto their bankrupt strategy
etc etc etc
So hypothetically we could argue that there are far more important things the government should be spending some effort on. Could it possibly be that the people who hypocrtically support this bill are in fact non smokers. Could it be that our representative is a non smoker. Our represenative is in fact so gung ho that they have decided to include VAPING under the cigarette laws. Possibly, in about 20 years from now someone will become a health representative who actually understands that Vapor and smoke are two different things and that there is scientific evidence confirming that second hand Vape is totally harmless and actually less toxic than the air we breath.
This is all conjecture however and the chances of the above scenario having played out or going to play out is unlikely and nothing more than speculation and a fabrication of my own imagination.
I will leave you all with the following. There is not one recorded incident in history of an individual smoking himself high on nicotine laced cigarettes and driving home and causing a fatal accident whist in this state or arriving home and beating up his wife and kids whilst under the influence of cigarette smoke but then I do suppose the healthy non smokers like a beer or two occasionally, so lets leave those laws alone. The same self righteous hypocrites sit at the upmarket restaurants with their R120 000.00 buck mountain bikes leaning up against the pole. Dressed in their offensive rubber crotch revealing shorty pants and shoes manufactured by children under forced labor conditions in the East, and reflect on their "health breakfast" which was delivered to the shop in a truck belching diesel smoke and fumes. The health breakfast sprayed full of water carrying coli, chemical fertilizers and genetically modified to stay fresh.
As I said this is all conjecture nothing more. It's hypothetically speaking.
I am so glad this is getting the attention and priority it deserves. I cant wait to have thousands of police patrolling the suburbs looking for those criminal smoking monsters. Clearly patrolling the township suburbs will be a piece of cake .... hmmmm is this law going to apply to everyone i wonder.
I think the real reason that makes them force vaping under the smoking law is to enforce heftier taxes on it.they not really worried about fines its the taxes that will get them their paychecks
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Ja these idiots dont understand that by trying to add vaping laws under the smoking umbrella it's like adding shoplifting under the drinking and driving laws. The two have zero in common whatsoever.
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