Nic salts - yay or nay?

[Silver]

With the increasing prevalence of nic salt based juices , this is a topic that's worth further discussion.

I found an article (quite old, but still worth a read) which explains more about nic salts.
http://vaping411.com/nicotine-salts/

From what I can gather, nic salts are a modified version of "normal nicotine" which allows for faster absorption of the nicotine but with lower throat hit. The two appear to go hand in hand because the smoother vaping sensation allows for higher levels of nic to be vaped. Which in turn allows for a more potent nicotine loading - so it gets closer to what combustible cigarettes can do.

This seems to be the ideal solution for low powered pod type and pen style vape devices. And these can help new vapers curb the nic cravings and stay off the stinkies.

There are a couple of issues though:

1. Is it suitable for vaping in high powered "enthusiast" mods at high nic levels?

2. Isn't there a risk with this that you could actually get more dependent on the nicotine (instead of less dependent)? Presumably one of the goals of many vapers is to reduce the nic level and dependency on nicotine over time.

3. How safe are nic salts compared to "normal nicotine"?

I may not be understanding this fully and I will admit that I haven't used nic salts much. I have only vaped on them a few times - and I get virtually zero immediate throat hit - so I didn't enjoy it. I know some folk say they get a strange taste with nic salts.

Have put up a poll too. Please vote and lets discuss this below.

What are your experiences?

 

[incredible_hullk]

My experience with nic salts has been constant coughing even at the 20-25 mg range which is the lowest I believe

Too much for me with a very tight chest feeling

Taste - I get a prominent chemical, acidic taste which put me off

 

[Raindance]

@Silver your second point regarding it sustaining nic dependancy is why i rather steer clear. I would not want to go back to “needing a fix now or else...” after struggling so hard to shake that need. Managed to book out of Hotel California and do not want to become a resident again.

Regards

 

[Rob Fisher]

I joke and say that Nic Salts is the "Devils work"! But seriously I think they are bad news and just another way of addicting people to Nicotine. I concede that there is a place for Nic Salts, especially when converting a smoker but I think high nic normal juice is a better option and worked for most of us.

 

[Carnival]

I believe they have their place, even though I definitely think there’s a risk of becoming more dependent on nicotine when using nic salts. For me at the moment, I take a few puffs here and there in between vaping free base and it helps curb the cravings for a stinkie. I’m giving myself a week from today, using nic salts, and after that I want to stick to free base. I’d rather not use nic salts long term.

 

[RichJB]

For me, it depends on whether you want to quit or switch. If you want to quit nicotine addiction, nic salts would be a terrible way to go about it. If you are content to remain addicted to nic but just want to reduce the harms from combustible tobacco, nic salts are fine. I'm trying to quit addiction so I'll never use nic salts or own a pod. Undoing the progress I've made over the past three years would just be crazy.

That said, I'm not complacent enough to assume that it will stop at nic salts. The industry has financial incentive to make its products as addictive as possible. With salts, they were at least open and honest about the high nic levels so I knew to avoid it. The problem is going to arise when they start slipping 'additives' into nic without telling anyone. And it's going to happen, you can bet your house on it. JUUL went from a start-up to a $10bn company in a matter of a few years, based primarily on cramming as much nic as they possibly could into every puff. Others will want to emulate that success and up the ante further. Doing it without the user even realising how much nic they're inhaling would be a sly way to go about it. So I'm very wary indeed, and keeping an eye on all juice testing studies for signs of new chemicals that weren't in vapour before.

 

[Silver]

My experience with nic salts has been constant coughing even at the 20-25 mg range which is the lowest I believe

Too much for me with a very tight chest feeling

Taste - I get a prominent chemical, acidic taste which put me off

That's interesting @incredible_hullk
Ive heard comments before about the strange taste - but not about the coughing.
I suppose each person experiences them differently

 

[Silver]

@Silver your second point regarding it sustaining nic dependancy is why i rather steer clear. I would not want to go back to “needing a fix now or else...” after struggling so hard to shake that need. Managed to book out of Hotel California and do not want to become a resident again.

Regards

I hear you @Raindance
And thats an important thing for me too.
Although I vape fairly high nic , its because I crave that instant throat hit when taking a puff. Its not really the cumulative nic loading that I need, but more the instant roughness on the throat.

 

[Viper_SA]

I tried it, but didn't like the "buzz" it gave me. Freebase all the way.

 

[Silver]

I joke and say that Nic Salts is the "Devils work"! But seriously I think they are bad news and just another way of addicting people to Nicotine. I concede that there is a place for Nic Salts, especially when converting a smoker but I think high nic normal juice is a better option and worked for most of us.

The thing is @Rob Fisher , back in Oct 2013 when I used the Twisp Clearo to get off stinkies - I had 4 of them and used to puff them like crazy till they were so hot. I think I burnt out one or two batteries because of my puffing. I was determined to quit the stinkies - but the nic I got from the old devices was admittedly quite low. So it made it quite difficult. I can understand how higher nic salts in more modern equipment can make a big difference. Especially in small portable devices with low power.

Agreed though on the bigger rigs and higher power devices - doesn't seem like there is a need for nic salts to get newer vapers off stinkies - normal nicotine can work fine in those devices

 

[Silver]

I believe they have their place, even though I definitely think there’s a risk of becoming more dependent on nicotine when using nic salts. For me at the moment, I take a few puffs here and there in between vaping free base and it helps curb the cravings for a stinkie. I’m giving myself a week from today, using nic salts, and after that I want to stick to free base. I’d rather not use nic salts long term.

Let us know how it goes @Carnival
I suppose even if it takes you a bit longer to wean yourself off the odd nic salt puff here and there - you are still doing a great thing avoiding the combustion. Am keen to hear though how it feels when you stop or reduce the nic salts. I.e. if the cravings come back...

 

[Silver]

My experience with Nic salts is nose bleeds and constant coughing. I had a bad experience with it.

I didnt like your post because of what you said - but that you have added your experiences @Amy
I assume that your system just doesn't agree with the nic salts.
Its good for other vapers to know they should always approach these things with a bit of caution.

 

[Carnival]

Let us know how it goes @Carnival
I suppose even if it takes you a bit longer to wean yourself off the odd nic salt puff here and there - you are still doing a great thing avoiding the combustion. Am keen to hear though how it feels when you stop or reduce the nic salts. I.e. if the cravings come back...

I will keep you guys updated.

 

[Silver]

For me, it depends on whether you want to quit or switch. If you want to quit nicotine addiction, nic salts would be a terrible way to go about it. If you are content to remain addicted to nic but just want to reduce the harms from combustible tobacco, nic salts are fine. I'm trying to quit addiction so I'll never use nic salts or own a pod. Undoing the progress I've made over the past three years would just be crazy.

That said, I'm not complacent enough to assume that it will stop at nic salts. The industry has financial incentive to make its products as addictive as possible. With salts, they were at least open and honest about the high nic levels so I knew to avoid it. The problem is going to arise when they start slipping 'additives' into nic without telling anyone. And it's going to happen, you can bet your house on it. JUUL went from a start-up to a $10bn company in a matter of a few years, based primarily on cramming as much nic as they possibly could into every puff. Others will want to emulate that success and up the ante further. Doing it without the user even realising how much nic they're inhaling would be a sly way to go about it. So I'm very wary indeed, and keeping an eye on all juice testing studies for signs of new chemicals that weren't in vapour before.

Thanks for this @RichJB
Always love hearing your comments and insights

It does scare me to think that juice makers could come up with other additives that make the juice way more potent without us knowing. That would be really sly. I just worry about the "normal nic" we buy from the DIY vendors - and whether that may start containing such additives over time too.... Not that I know exactly whats in the nic I am using now - but it doesnt feel any different to what has been happening the last few years.

PS - I'll be listening to you if you find any studies that show some strange additives cropping up

 

[Raindance]

The thing is @Rob Fisher , back in Oct 2013 when I used the Twisp Clearo to get off stinkies - I had 4 of them and used to puff them like crazy till they were so hot. I think I burnt out one or two batteries because of my puffing. I was determined to quit the stinkies - but the nic I got from the old devices was admittedly quite low. So it made it quite difficult. I can understand how higher nic salts in more modern equipment can make a big difference. Especially in small portable devices with low power.

Agreed though on the bigger rigs and higher power devices - doesn't seem like there is a need for nic salts to get newer vapers off stinkies - normal nicotine can work fine in those devices

Vaping worked to get me off stinkies because it lestened the suffering but still required some getting used to. Quiting with nic salts may be more of a replacement and more of a similar alternative than a move away as @RichJB states. Easy to fall back as the ties are not permanently severed.

Regards

 

[Silver]

Vaping worked to get me off stinkies because it lestened the suffering but still required some getting used to. Quiting with nic salts may be more of a replacement and more of a similar alternative than a move away as @RichJB states. Easy to fall back as the ties are not permanently severed.

Regards

Agreed @Raindance
It took quite a bit of willpower to get off the stinkies in the early days
But with todays devices and range of juices I think its so much easier - even with the normal nic options

 

[Jean claude Vaaldamme]

I would like to know what the defference is nicotine is between someone getting quick fix every hour or two on nic salts, and a person sucking on his mod the whole day at 3 or 6mg nic, consuming 20-30ml a day?

 

[Raindance]

Agreed @Raindance
It took quite a bit of willpower to get off the stinkies in the early days
But with todays devices and range of juices I think its so much easier - even with the normal nic options

This conversation just made me remember that the fourth of this month I've been vaping for three years.
Good old subtank mini is what did it for me with 6mg/ml nic. On 2mg/ml now.

Regards

 

[Amy]

I didnt like your post because of what you said - but that you have added your experiences @Amy
I assume that your system just doesn't agree with the nic salts.
Its good for other vapers to know they should always approach these things with a bit of caution.

Sorry didn't mean to offend or scare anyone. Just my experience with Nic salts...

 

[Silver]

Sorry didn't mean to offend or scare anyone. Just my experience with Nic salts...

No dont worry - my post was not worded carefully
What I meant is that I rated your post a "like" - not because I liked that you had a nose bleed - but because I like that you shared your experience...

 

[Silver]

This conversation just made me remember that the fourth of this month I've been vaping for three years.
Good old subtank mini is what did it for me with 6mg/ml nic. On 2mg/ml now.

Regards

Classic @Raindance !
And congrats on the 3 years!!!


Subtank Mini is a great device indeed!

 

[Rob Fisher]

I would like to know what the defference is nicotine is between someone getting quick fix every hour or two on nic salts, and a person sucking on his mod the whole day at 3 or 6mg nic, consuming 20-30ml a day?

Really GOOD point! I'm am the latter and am never without my mod. But I think it's because I love the flavour and the whole scene rather than a nicotine addiction.

 

[Silver]

I would like to know what the defference is nicotine is between someone getting quick fix every hour or two on nic salts, and a person sucking on his mod the whole day at 3 or 6mg nic, consuming 20-30ml a day?

Good question @Jean claude Vaaldamme

With normal nic juice I suppose one vapes more or less depending on the nic content. I know with myself. If I take a few 18mg MTL toots I am sorted for a while. Before feeling I want to vape more. But with 3mg, even on a more powerful setup I can puff away and it feels like I need more. So yes, I suppose if you vape low strength or high strength you will vape what you need.

The issue with Nic Salts though (the way I see it and I am no expert) is that you get very strong liquids and if you vape them in a more powerful setup, my feeling is that its easier to get way more nicotine than with normal nic. (It absorbs better into your system). And with much lower throat hit, its likely to be easier to get too much nic.

I don't know but that is my feeling.

 

[Bulldog]

Really GOOD point! I'm am the latter and am never without my mod. But I think it's because I love the flavour and the whole scene rather than a nicotine addiction.

Exactly the same with me, I am vaping around 30 - 35 ml of juice a day. I am mixing at 1,5mg but find even if vaping bought juice at 3mg it does not make me vape less. I also never feel like I am craving nic because if I am in a situation where I can't vape for a couple of hours, I don't have the same craving I did for a stinkie but rather miss the flavour and mod in my hand if that makes sense.
I have never tried nic salts and don't intend trying.

 

[Carnival]

This conversation just made me remember that the fourth of this month I've been vaping for three years.
Good old subtank mini is what did it for me with 6mg/ml nic. On 2mg/ml now.

Regards

That’s awesome, WELL DONE!!!