Ok. This actually happened

[BubiSparks]

My Avatar might give a hint to my background.... @Feliks Karp, your statement that the first battery gets hit harder is fundamentally incorrect...

First from which end for a start????

 

[Feliks Karp]

My Avatar might give a hint to my background.... @Feliks Karp, your statement that the first battery gets hit harder is fundamentally incorrect...

First from which end for a start????

I actually addressed this, and yes it is a misnomer from my side. You however are one of the people who do tend to reply with educational and informative posts.

 

[Andre]

I have no idea about the how, but have read hundreds of post in forums/sites all over the world. They all recommend that married batteries should be rotated inside the mod. I suspect there is some facts behind these recommendations, even if it does not make much of a difference.

 

[aktorsyl]

I have no idea about the how, but have read hundreds of post in forums/sites all over the world. They all recommend that married batteries should be rotated inside the mod. I suspect there is some facts behind these recommendations, even if it does not make much of a difference.

Well sure, but in the middle ages people also religiously suggested all over the place that putting dried flowers in your shirt pocket will stop you from getting sick
Not ripping at you here at all, @Andre - just couldn't resist the comparison

 

[Andre]

Well sure, but in the middle ages people also religiously suggested all over the place that putting dried flowers in your shirt pocket will stop you from getting sick
Not ripping at you here at all, @Andre - just couldn't resist the comparison

Hehe, it might well be the case.

 

[Christos]

In theory, there shouldnt be a noticeable change or any issues with batteries in the same place.
From experience though its totally different. The battery that makes contact with the atty seems to drain faster than the one that makes contact to the button.
e.g Atty battery will be 4.0v and button battery is 3.8V.
2 New batteries in the noisy cricket v1 and the battery volts are the same voltage after use.

I think ive had the current batteries in there for 6 months and have never changed position etc.

Its possibly an age related wear thing but I dont have the patience to verify this again...

 

[Kuhlkatz]

Something we need to consider is that Li-Ion cells are used in fixed configurations in a number of devices where it is not possible to move them around. Notebooks, Power Tools, medical equipment to name but a few. Once inside a battery pack, they are usually bonded with spot-welded connector strips and stay that way for their entire lifetime. Granted, they are not always required to deliver the power we demand from vaping, but they are never rotated, and used in that same configuration for years.

LiPo cells in RC models deliver very high power, but modellers typically employ better balance charging devices to charge them up and keep them balanced during every single charge cycle. They are also normally wired in a fixed configuration for commonly 2 or 3, but up to 6 cell configurations - 2S, 3S, 4S & 6S. In addition to this, they are sometimes wired in fixed parallel configs on top of the the series cells - e.g. 3S2P = two of ( 3 x series cells ) wired in parallel, providing the nominal 11.1 v (3.7 x 3) but also effectively increasing the total capacity (mAh) and the maximum output load current / ampere rating due to the parallel wiring.

If we look at the vaper's problem objectively, it is a well-know fact that the item that gets the LEAST attention on most modern mods, is the charge circuits. That is why all the manufacturers recommend that you charge them externally and not in the mod. DNA devices using LiPos should be the exception here, but they also seem to have their issues. It seems that mod makers are far more interested in nice features and 'moar powerr' for the OUTPUT side of the mod, but couldn't give two hoots about the INPUT side of things.

The recommendation to swap them around more than likely stems from an assumption that you will possibly charge them in the mod. Some mods do boast 'balanced' charge circuitry, but in reality the batteries end up at different final voltages when the cycle is done. This is simply verified if you take a reading, swap them round and take another reading. In most cases they will likely not display the same voltage for each cell before and after the move. On my Predator 228 they are damn close when charged IN the mod, but when charged externally, they are around 0.05v to 0.1v out. Swap them and they change again... ( a quick check just now was 3.92v and 3.94v, and 3.90v and 3.96v after I swapped them ). I sure as hell hope that the same 'meter' is not used to decide where to charge them up to and where to eventually cut off the charging.

In a series circuit, there are a number of factors that would affect the discharge rate of each battery. Internal resistance, age, voltage and charged capacity with respect to partners etc.. Like a chain where the weakest link is always the one to break first, the battery that is always charged lower than the others, yet expected to deliver the same current as the other batteries, is likely going to be the one that always runs hotter, discharge faster, fail first and not live as long as its neighbours.
If you rotate them and there are small discrepancies in the individual charge circuits, you at least offset them over the entire lifespan of the batteries, and you will also offset the wear and tear across them.

It's a similar concept to the recommended rotation of the tires on your car to keep the treads and wear pattern even, but most of us don't do that either, do we?

 

[Feliks Karp]

Something we need to consider is that Li-Ion cells are used in fixed configurations in a number of devices where it is not possible to move them around. Notebooks, Power Tools, medical equipment to name but a few. Once inside a battery pack, they are usually bonded with spot-welded connector strips and stay that way for their entire lifetime. Granted, they are not always required to deliver the power we demand from vaping, but they are never rotated, and used in that same configuration for years.

LiPo cells in RC models deliver very high power, but modellers typically employ better balance charging devices to charge them up and keep them balanced during every single charge cycle. They are also normally wired in a fixed configuration for commonly 2 or 3, but up to 6 cell configurations - 2S, 3S, 4S & 6S. In addition to this, they are sometimes wired in fixed parallel configs on top of the the series cells - e.g. 3S2P = two of ( 3 x series cells ) wired in parallel, providing the nominal 11.1 v (3.7 x 3) but also effectively increasing the total capacity (mAh) and the maximum output load current / ampere rating due to the parallel wiring.

If we look at the vaper's problem objectively, it is a well-know fact that the item that gets the LEAST attention on most modern mods, is the charge circuits. That is why all the manufacturers recommend that you charge them externally and not in the mod. DNA devices using LiPos should be the exception here, but they also seem to have their issues. It seems that mod makers are far more interested in nice features and 'moar powerr' for the OUTPUT side of the mod, but couldn't give two hoots about the INPUT side of things.

The recommendation to swap them around more than likely stems from an assumption that you will possibly charge them in the mod. Some mods do boast 'balanced' charge circuitry, but in reality the batteries end up at different final voltages when the cycle is done. This is simply verified if you take a reading, swap them round and take another reading. In most cases they will likely not display the same voltage for each cell before and after the move. On my Predator 228 they are damn close when charged IN the mod, but when charged externally, they are around 0.05v to 0.1v out. Swap them and they change again... ( a quick check just now was 3.92v and 3.94v, and 3.90v and 3.96v after I swapped them ). I sure as hell hope that the same 'meter' is not used to decide where to charge them up to and where to eventually cut off the charging.

In a series circuit, there are a number of factors that would affect the discharge rate of each battery. Internal resistance, age, voltage and charged capacity with respect to partners etc.. Like a chain where the weakest link is always the one to break first, the battery that is always charged lower than the others, yet expected to deliver the same current as the other batteries, is likely going to be the one that always runs hotter, discharge faster, fail first and not live as long as its neighbours.
If you rotate them and there are small discrepancies in the individual charge circuits, you at least offset them over the entire lifespan of the batteries, and you will also offset the wear and tear across them.

It's a similar concept to the recommended rotation of the tires on your car to keep the treads and wear pattern even, but most of us don't do that either, do we?

Wish I could give you two ratings. Thank you , this is the kind of response I appreciate, it's well thought out, educational and encompassing of various aspects of the problem, while maintaining a level head . Value added to the forum and community at large.

 

[Kuhlkatz]

Wish I could give you two ratings. Thank you , this is the kind of response I appreciate, it's well thought out, educational and encompassing of various aspects of the problem, while maintaining a level head . Value added to the forum and community at large.

Haha, but it's still TL;DR ? Main message in that case is 'Right or wrong, just rotate them anyway and stop moaning about it !'

 

[Silver]

Thanks @Kuhlkatz !
That was great and informative

 

[Feliks Karp]

Haha, but it's still TL;DR ? Main message in that case is 'Right or wrong, just rotate them anyway and stop moaning about it !'

I'd rather spend 5 min reading something that was constructed with the intent of informing than waste 5 secs with something that's trash.

 

[Strontium]

I didn't understand it but you seem to know what you're talking about, so I'll just rotate my batteries.

 

[Nightwalker]

Guys. Chill on personal attacks. I'm the one that stirs up nonsense. Don't take that away from me

 

[Darryn Du Plessis]

As jy dom is moet jy k@k

Sent from my Note 4

nahr.. if you're dumb and someone saw that and didn't tell you, who's really leading the dumbness _> in any given context.

If you can see someone's a dom---n---- you sell him a product he can't afford - firstly - then you don't direct them on how to use it - then, you also sold it without a cover - and let the owner misuse it -
You're the one still responsible for the misuse of the item - Which you just helped the smart character buy.

Although, he's also struggling to listen to advice =- in which you did then warn him -
Why not give him some examples with the many previous cases of Lithium cells going up in temperature/ till it e-vent-ually vents' =-

You're still the one that didn't give appropriate advice - of Product-handling - product management to make him fully steer clear of this --
=
@Nightwalker

Vendors should treat all their clients as younguns - Explain battery safety on selling point -
To try avoid this; don't give them their products till they sign a disclaimer to accept battery failure as a sign of their own behaviour AFTER sale then/ if they use their cells irresponsibly out of their own free will;

 

[craigb]

nahr.. if you're dumb and someone saw that and didn't tell you, who's really leading the dumbness _> in any given context.

If you can see someone's a dom---n---- you sell him a product he can't afford - firstly - then you don't direct them on how to use it - then, you also sold it without a cover - and let the owner misuse it -
You're the one still responsible for the misuse of the item - Which you just helped the smart character buy.

Although, he's also struggling to listen to advice =- in which you did then warn him -
Why not give him some examples with the many previous cases of Lithium cells going up in temperature/ till it e-vent-ually vents' =-

You're still the one that didn't give appropriate advice - of Product-handling - product management to make him fully steer clear of this --
=
@Nightwalker

Vendors should treat all their clients as younguns - Explain battery safety on selling point -
To try avoid this; don't give them their products till they sign a disclaimer to accept battery failure as a sign of their own behaviour AFTER sale then/ if they use their cells irresponsibly out of their own free will;

Let the idiots do themselves in and strengthen the gene pool. All this Molly coddling to tyrannical toddlers is creating a generation of self centered obnoxious brats.

The guy in the OP should have, apparently, known better. Respect your batteries, respect your vape, respect to yourself.

 

[Darryn Du Plessis]

When I saw battery imbalance on my Rx200 - I immediately made the decision to buy an external charger - Never had that again ;

@craigb
Clearest cut difference between RX200 and DNA 200 - But for someone dumb - which do you think they would buy

 

[craigb]

When I saw battery imbalance on my Rx200 - I immediately made the decision to buy an external charger - Never had that again ;

@craigb
Clearest cut difference between RX200 and DNA 200 - But for someone dumb - which do you think they would buy

Depends which one they could afford.

 

[aktorsyl]

When I saw battery imbalance on my Rx200 - I immediately made the decision to buy an external charger - Never had that again ;

@craigb
Clearest cut difference between RX200 and DNA 200 - But for someone dumb - which do you think they would buy

You're not seriously saying someone is dumb for not buying a DNA200, are you? I mean if it's better, great - it also costs more. Not everyone can afford that.

 

[Darryn Du Plessis]

You're not seriously saying someone is dumb for not buying a DNA200, are you? I mean if it's better, great - it also costs more. Not everyone can afford that.

@craigb We're talking about battery imbalance here; The DNA was built for USB charging. the rx200 WAS NOT; yet WHICH ONE do you think is being charged the most through USB?

 

[craigb]

@craigb We're talking about battery imbalance here; The DNA was built for USB charging. the rx200 WAS NOT; yet WHICH ONE do you think is being charged the most through USB?

The one more people can afford? I dont know. I don't do market research and I am not omniscient.

 

[Nightwalker]

nahr.. if you're dumb and someone saw that and didn't tell you, who's really leading the dumbness _> in any given context.

If you can see someone's a dom---n---- you sell him a product he can't afford - firstly - then you don't direct them on how to use it - then, you also sold it without a cover - and let the owner misuse it -
You're the one still responsible for the misuse of the item - Which you just helped the smart character buy.

Although, he's also struggling to listen to advice =- in which you did then warn him -
Why not give him some examples with the many previous cases of Lithium cells going up in temperature/ till it e-vent-ually vents' =-

You're still the one that didn't give appropriate advice - of Product-handling - product management to make him fully steer clear of this --
=
@Nightwalker

Vendors should treat all their clients as younguns - Explain battery safety on selling point -
To try avoid this; don't give them their products till they sign a disclaimer to accept battery failure as a sign of their own behaviour AFTER sale then/ if they use their cells irresponsibly out of their own free will;

Right. I'm not a vendor. Two. I didn't sell a regulated mod with built in safety features. Three. This is all user fault, not vendor. 4. When he bought it and showed me, I told him to get external charger. 5 battery safety is comon sense and a person can find 10000000s of videos and write ups on line.

 

[Darryn Du Plessis]

Right. I'm not a vendor. Two. I didn't sell a regulated mod with built in safety features. Three. This is all user fault, not vendor. 4. When he bought it and showed me, I told him to get external charger. 5 battery safety is comon sense and a person can find 10000000s of videos and write ups on line.

And you told us how much of a moron he/she is- but you didn't recommend all this to them?

Given scenario: user's of computers in the UK can easily google the problem they are facing, BUT they pick up the phone and call IT first, why? because that's their process; the way they think first is not going to change, because we're like a lifeline.

Point: you cannot think the way the smart/dumbass person does think because you're not them.

Your recommendations of a charger could also accompany the dangers he would face if not doing as you told them.

 

[Nightwalker]

And you told us how much of a moron he/she is- but you didn't recommend all this to them?

Given scenario: user's of computers in the UK can easily google the problem they are facing, BUT they pick up the phone and call IT first, why? because that's their process; the way they think first is not going to change, because we're like a lifeline.

Point: you cannot think the way the smart/dumbass person does think because you're not them.

Your recommendations of a charger could also accompany the dangers he would face if not doing as you told them.

Actually you are so right. I really should go and lecture everyone about vaping. Then stop buy the tobacco shops then lecture them. Then stop ay the petrol station and lecture everyone on road safety.
Dude. Arguing with me for giving him basic advice on vaping is one thing but I'm not his mother.

 

[Darryn Du Plessis]

Well you're not his judge either.
Why are you publishing his foul attempts at battery safety.
Just to mock a fella?
Go live and love your own life because you're NOT in his shoes.

Actually you are so right. I really should go and lecture everyone about vaping. Then stop buy the tobacco shops then lecture them. Then stop ay the petrol station and lecture everyone on road safety.
Dude. Arguing with me for giving him basic advice on vaping is one thing but I'm not his mother.

 

[BioHAZarD]

Well you're not his judge either.
Why are you publishing his foul attempts at battery safety.
Just to mock a fella?
Go live and love your own life because you're NOT in his shoes.

Dude, go away. Nobody wants to play with you