Power Delivery

[moonunit]

So I have been wondering about all these high wattage devices and potential upgrade path(please note don't want this discussion to be about upgrades). Does their power delivery differ from device to device and what makes it differ, is it the chip, wiring, connections, battery type...

I am quite interested in car audio(sound quality) and high end amps might have a lower power rating than some of these fong kong amps but they will deliver the power far better. Now I'm thinking this may apply to vaping as well...

As an example I have a nautilus mini that I can fire on my smok BT50 and MVP 2.0, the MVP 2.0 tops out at 11watts and obviously the BT50 can go far higher. If I set both devices to 11watts the MVP 2.0 produces a smooth relatively cool Vape with decent flavour profile. I use this setting all the time on the MVP 2.0. Now if I use the BT50 at 11watts it tastes like the cool is on the verge of burning and the Vape is much warmer. I have to turn it down to 9watts where the coil seems happy but the Vape is still warmer than the MVP 2.0 at 11watts.

Now all things are held constant but the Vape is different.

What have you guys/ladies found?




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[devdev]

I think the regulated mods use varying methods (all based on Pulse Width Modulation) to create variable voltage (really @johan and @JakesSA would know more than me) so I can certainly see ways in which you could get different power delivery for what should be the "same" setting.

This same principle can even apply to mech mods. Take two identical mechs and they may not perform the same due to dirty contacts and the like. This will mean the total voltage delivered to the atty is different, even though the resistance of the coils is the same on both mechs, and even if the battery is the same voltage. Its the potential resistance the currant encounters along the path to the coil that is going to detract from its actual performance.

The real question then is would these micro variations (be it in the way a regulated mod is designed, or a mech mod) result in a noticeable difference to the user. For my money I don't notice any real difference between vaping at 10W and vaping at 11W, but I look forward to hearing what the more technically minded folks have to say.

 

[johan]

So I have been wondering about all these high wattage devices and potential upgrade path(please note don't want this discussion to be about upgrades). Does their power delivery differ from device to device and what makes it differ, is it the chip, wiring, connections, battery type...

I am quite interested in car audio(sound quality) and high end amps might have a lower power rating than some of these fong kong amps but they will deliver the power far better. Now I'm thinking this may apply to vaping as well...

As an example I have a nautilus mini that I can fire on my smok BT50 and MVP 2.0, the MVP 2.0 tops out at 11watts and obviously the BT50 can go far higher. If I set both devices to 11watts the MVP 2.0 produces a smooth relatively cool Vape with decent flavour profile. I use this setting all the time on the MVP 2.0. Now if I use the BT50 at 11watts it tastes like the cool is on the verge of burning and the Vape is much warmer. I have to turn it down to 9watts where the coil seems happy but the Vape is still warmer than the MVP 2.0 at 11watts.

Now all things are held constant but the Vape is different.

What have you guys/ladies found?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't know if anyone on this forum have really tested these electronic mods to confirm if they deliver really x-Watts or not. It should be very easy to verify with simple test equipment though.

At the price being paid for these electronic mods, I can not see that they will be more accurate than +/-10%, so that will be the first factor distinguising various units.

The next factor is of coarse the switching frequency (PWM as referred by @devdev). One device might switch at 50kHz and only vary its duty cycle, and another device might vary it switching frequency with a constant 50% duty cycle.

@moonunit the device that is giving you a burnt taste might be the one with fixed switching frequency with a high duty cycle (almost constantly on).

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[Yiannaki]

@johan , would true step down ability also play a factor in this equation?

 

[stevie g]

@Yiannaki that's exactly what I was thinking

 

[johan]

@johan , would true step down ability also play a factor in this equation?

Yes, they all work on the same principle (fix frequency, variable duty cycle, or fixed duty cycle, variable frequency) doesn't matter if the buck topology is step up or step down.

 

[JW Flynn]

I would think that a big impact on this would also be the ohm pickup from the mod itself... if both pick up the ohm exactly the same, then in theory they should fire the same @ 11 watts... the maths would suggest at least... 10 watts on one device should in theory be the same as it is on another... hence the pickup of the coil resistance....

also, connectors, one could have all copper connectors that would better transfer the power from the mod to the tank, where another with steel for instance would not have the same power transfer...

but for the most part I would think it comes down to how it picks up the resistance of the coil... I mean if it picks up 0.5 on the one mod and 0.59 on the other... you can see how this would affect the vape...

a 0.5 ohm coil would run 2.2 volts @ 10 watts
a 0.5 ohm coil running at 2.4 volts would equate to 11.52 watts
a 0.58 running the same voltage would equate to 8.6 watts
a 0.58 ohm coil would run 2.4 Volts @ 10 watts

from the above examples I think you can see what i'm getting to.... this is on small differences in reading, imagine how much the vape would differ with a 0.1 or 0.2 ohm difference between devices... makes for a complete different vape!!

Anyway, I hope this helps

you can reference the following website to do your calculations for you, easier than doing the math yourself, hehe

http://rapidtables.com/calc/electric/watt-volt-amp-calculator.htm

 

[free3dom]

if both pick up the ohm exactly the same, then in theory they should fire the same @ 11 watts... the maths would suggest at least... 10 watts on one device should in theory be the same as it is on another... hence the pickup of the coil resistance....

Not if the 10W shown on the screen isn't really 10W when fired...I think that is what @johan was pointing out in relation to accuracy.
It's the same with the speedometer on a vehicle - what it shows is not necessarily the actual speed you are traveling at

 

[JW Flynn]

true there is still that as well... I was merely pointing out the obvious issues... if the hardware is of inferior quality then yes, I can see more issues resulting in an even bigger change in vapes on different devices...

I wish the Japanese would jump on the wagon and make us a couple of lekker devices... Japanese made mod would be tradable after 10 years of use, hehe

 

[Silver]

Hi @moonunit
Great post and I know what you mean that a higher wattage mod is not necessarily better

I don't know the exact answers to your questions and the guys above have all answered with more detail than I could add

However, the reason I am posting is that I too have observed strange differences between my beloved MVP2 and other mods at the same power setting (below 11W)

I think it has to do with the method of delivering the power (as @devdev and @johan explained). But I also think that the MVP2 specifically has a DC looking waveform. So when it delivers the voltage its not oscillating. The vape feels more "direct" than what i get for example from the SVD, which "rattles" when firing. This i hear clearly when using the Nautilus Mini with a 1.8 ohm Bvc coil.

Check out the review from PBusardo on the MVP2. He puts these mods on his oscilloscope to see how they fire at different resistances and power settings, comparing their performances to what the theory suggests. He also often discusses how the vape "feels" as a result of the way the mod delivers the power.

I do hope that the quality of power delivery on these regulated mods improves with time. At this stage I still slightly prefer the power delivery on my mechanical Reo. It feels a bit more direct and "pure". Not a massive difference but I can easily pick it up.