Shake and Vape DIY

[Rude Rudi]

Premixed also requires steeping... the flavours in there have just been premixed for your convenience - you add pg, vg and nic and let it steep...

With the above being said, we are largely referring to complex, layered recipes. There are loads of simple recipes which can indeed be a good SnV. Start simple, make some one and two ingredient recipes to get the base knowledge and progress from there.


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[Raindance]

Thanks, that's the review I came across I'm just not keen on the steep (new curse word in my dictionary ) Still think I'm going to try the premixed concentrates though.

Unfortunately steeping is one of those issues that we can hardly ever avoid. Luckily some juices require less than others but almost all improve with time. Some are good off the bat though.

The trick is to mix with a plan. I mix three bottles at a time in three batches. As soon as three bottles have been used and i start the next batch, i mix again. That works well for ones ADV juice. When it comes to samples and developing new juices, patience is a key ingredient.

Regards and good luck.

 

[The_Ice]

@Sheryl may I suggest these recipes as an easy starting point

 

[Sheryl]

Premixed also requires steeping... the flavours in there have just been premixed for your convenience - you add pg, vg and nic and let it steep...

With the above being said, we are largely referring to complex, layered recipes. There are loads of simple recipes which can indeed be a good SnV. Start simple, make some one and two ingredient recipes to get the base knowledge and progress from there.


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Thanks. I got some EVO juice from a friend yesterday. 6mg.

I started off with 6 when I just started vaping, and managed to get to 3. First time I'm having 6 again. I feel like I want to get sick. Now I'm not sure if it's the sudden climb in NIC, or a Flav that's making me nauseous. To the point where I'd rather light up a real ciggy instead of vaping this gawdawful juice.

And...I have resigned myself to the fact that I need to steep everything, I can't do plain, it has to be dessert/bakery flavs and I'm assuming those fall under layered. And I LOOOOOOVVVVVEEE custard in everything.

How long can NIC last (not mixed) in a fridge/freezer? If I want to buy like 5 bottles for the foreseeable future?
How long can I keep mixed juice for? Steeping etc?

The info i get on here is a lot more helpful than speaking to friends. They have all tried to DIY, all failed, and all, say it's not worth it.
Thanks guys!

 

[RichJB]

If you freeze nic, it would last for a long time. It takes me a couple of months to get through a 100ml bottle 36mg nic. I store it in the fridge and have never had problems with nic going off. Mixed juice would be good for at least a couple of years.

Creams, custards, tobaccos all require long steeps to be at their best. Think about your juices from Paulie's or Orion. They are first mixed in a lab and must then be transported to the vendor. Then they sit on the shelf at the vendor until you buy them. Then they might sit for a few days at home until you finish your current juice and are ready to vape them. All the time, those juices are steeping. It is possible to buy a commercial juice that isn't fully steeped. But it would be the exception rather than the norm.

I can well imagine that there are people who have tried DIY and given up. When I first tried it, I didn't get great results. There are inevitable mistakes that the new mixer will make almost automatically:

1) Not understanding the importance of specific flavours. "Forget it, I'm not paying R50 for an imported flavour when I can buy Moirs at the supermarket for much less. I'm sure it'll work just the same." Mmmm, no. It won't. Buy the exact flavour specified in the recipe. If it says TFA Sweet Cream, that is the one to use. Even TFA DX Sweet Cream won't deliver the same result. Think of flavours like spices. If a culinary recipe calls for cumin, you wouldn't use rosemary. Two strawberries from different brands can be as dissimilar as two different spices. Over time you will learn which flavours you can substitute, just like a veteran chef can replace one spice with another and still get a great result. But to start with, use the exact one specified.

2) Using a 1:1 equivalence between juice and real foods. "I like bread with PB and syrup. I'm sure Acetyl Pyrazine (bready texture), TFA DX Peanut Butter and TFA Honey will be lip-smackingly good and just like a real PB&syrup sandwich." Mmm, no. It won't.

3) Thinking a compound flavour will get you a complete profile. "Oooh look, a cookies and cream flavour. I'm sure this will be just as good as Zoob. I don't need to do anything, they've done all the work and put it in a bottle for me." Mmmm, no.

4) Thinking that recipes are for uncreative losers and making a banging tasty juice can't be that hard. Your first recipe attempts will suck. It is assured. There is nobody who cooks like Heston Blumenthal after their first two weeks in the kitchen, and there is nobody who mixes like Wayne straight off the bat. It's a skill, it takes legwork and time. But... you can still get banging juices from seasoned mixers while you're learning the craft. Just like starter cooks can make great dishes by Jamie or Gordon while they're learning to develop their own dishes.

Mixing is not an intuitive thing and early pioneers like HIC, Fresh, fizzmustard, Wayne had to wing it and learn by trial and error. It is much, much easier now because the pioneers notated their work and made it available for all. I'd start by watching the vast library of video tutorials on YouTube. Watch every video on the DIYorDie channel, all the MixLife videos, the New Amsterdam Vape starter tutorials, and anything else you can find. It shortens the learning curve dramatically.

Equally, use Reddit, e-liquid-recipes.com and alltheflavors.com as research tools. If a particular flavour interests you, look up the flavour notes on Reddit. Then look up the flavour on ELR or ATF, note how it is used in recipes, what percentage it's used at, what it's paired with. Keep notes on everything. You will very quickly pick up the knowledge needed to mix other people's recipes successfully. And, somewhat less quickly but still soon enough, gain the tools to start developing your own juice creations.

 

[Sheryl]

3) Thinking a compound flavour will get you a complete profile. "Oooh look, a cookies and cream flavour. I'm sure this will be just as good as Zoob. I don't need to do anything, they've done all the work and put it in a bottle for me." Mmmm, no.

Ja ne, that's exactly what I would've assumed!
I did notice my Belt tasted a lot better the longer it took to get through it.

Thanks!!!

 

[Quintusson]

You guys are crushing my dreams here But, I've heard it from various sources now. I suppose no better way to learn to be more patient

The secret is to plan ahead. I always have at least 10-15 juices which are steeping at any given time (at the moment I have something like 30 I think). Also, I mix almost every weekend even if it is just one bottle. So mix up a bit now and let it stand, next week again, etc. Then in 3-4 (maybe 5?) weeks from now you start taking from the first batch you created, then the week after of the next batch, etc.

 

[Sheryl]

The secret is to plan ahead. I always have at least 10-15 juices which are steeping at any given time (at the moment I have something like 30 I think). Also, I mix almost every weekend even if it is just one bottle. So mix up a bit now and let it stand, next week again, etc. Then in 3-4 (maybe 5?) weeks from now you start taking from the first batch you created, then the week after of the next batch, etc.

It's the waiting for first batch I am dreading Glass or plastic? Or is that irrelevant. And would it be a good idea to get the starter kit from BLCK? Friends spent over R800 for theirs (the same ones that gave up the mission) but a colleague said all I need are a couple of syringes and I can mix straight in the bottle I'd steep in. That sounds a bit like a disaster waiting to happen though?

I have kept every single bottle of juice I've vaped since the day I officially stopped cigarettes. Can I use those?

 

[RichJB]

Glass and plastic are both fine. Just give used bottles a thorough soak in hot with water with sea salt added to eliminate lingering odours from the previous juice.

I would avoid starter kits as they are geared towards mixing by volume. If there is one piece of advice that you heed from me, let it be this: buy a scale and mix by weight rather than volume. It is the single most useful piece of advice that any new mixer can take to heart.

 

[Sheryl]

Glass and plastic are both fine. Just give used bottles a thorough soak in hot with water with sea salt added to eliminate lingering odours from the previous juice.

I would avoid starter kits as they are geared towards mixing by volume. If there is one piece of advice that you heed from me, let it be this: buy a scale and mix by weight rather than volume. It is the single most useful piece of advice that any new mixer can take to heart.

Thanks! I was going to do the whole volume thing because that looked so much easier to me

 

[RichJB]

Again it's that intuitive thing. We are conditioned to use volume when cooking with liquids. So a packet sauce requires 400ml of milk to be added, not 450g of milk. But mixing by weight is just so much easier and more precise. No washing up syringes, pipettes or beakers afterwards either. You mix straight into the bottle without needing any other implements. The secret is the scale's Tare function. So you can zero the scale to show 0.00g even when there is a bottle half-full of liquid on it. That makes adding precise weights of flavours or other ingredients very quick and simple.

 

[Sheryl]

Thanks! I was going to do the whole volume thing because that looked so much easier to me

I am so confused with all the stuff in DIY Accessories on BLCK (I know now to def get scale) but what on earth are all the other things for?? Goodness, I'd end up buying the lot, and probably never using it.

I feel like not even going there before I've even started...

This combo is made up for the new mixer who would like to mix using a scale.

Contains the following items:

1 x Vegetable glycerine (VG) 500ml

1 x Propylene Glycol (PG) 500ml

1 x Nicotine (PG) 100ml

5 x 3ml disposable pipette

5 x plastic stirrer

3 x 10ml syringe

2 x 50ml syringe

2 x Latex glove

3 x 10ml dropper bottle

5 x 50ml dropper bottle

5 x 100ml dropper bottle

5 x 30ml Glass dropper bottle (Amber)

1 x Glass Beaker 50ml

1 x scale 0.01/ 200g

 

[Sheryl]

Again it's that intuitive thing. We are conditioned to use volume when cooking with liquids. So a packet sauce requires 400ml of milk to be added, not 450g of milk. But mixing by weight is just so much easier and more precise. No washing up syringes, pipettes or beakers afterwards either. You mix straight into the bottle without needing any other implements. The secret is the scale's Tare function. So you can zero the scale to show 0.00g even when there is a bottle half-full of liquid on it. That makes adding precise weights of flavours or other ingredients very quick and simple.

Ah, makes sense! I bake loads of cupcakes, and yes, I always opt for ml vs grams. I even convert grams to ml because my measuring cup is in ml. Never flopped a cupcake though But it makes sense to not have to use multiple syringes.

I steered clear of the build-ur-own-coil mission because it was too daunting. I think this might just be a little harder to accomplish...

 

[RichJB]

For mixing by weight, you need:

1. Scale
2. Bottles. You can either mix into amber glass and then decant once steeped into a glass bottle with dropper or a plastic dropper bottle, or simply mix straight into the glass/plastic bottle that you use to fill your tank/dripper.
3. Nic
4. VG
5. PG. If you like 70/30 juice, I'd buy around 4x as much VG as PG. So 500ml PG for every 2l VG. That will ensure that you use them up at about the same rate.
6. Flavours
7. Gloves/goggles if you're concerned about safety. I don't use them, many do.

There are numerous recipe apps that you can use online or download to your phone or PC. They all have a weight conversion function where you add the weight for PG and PG-based nic (1.036g per ml), VG (1.26g per ml) and flavours. The vast majority of mixers use 1ml=1g for flavours so no conversion is needed there. This is a screenshot of the DIY Juice Calculator app that I use:



As you can see, it gives both a ML and a Grams measurement for each ingredient. So, to mix this recipe by weight, I would place my empty mixing bottle on the scale and then turn the scale on. It tares automatically so it subtracts the weight of the bottle and reads 0.00g. I then:

1) Add 2.59g of nic and tare the scale to zero.
2) Add 5.88g of PG and tare the scale
3) Add 0.23g of Inawera Biscuit and tare the scale
4) Add 1.35g of Cap NY Cheesecake and tare the scale
5) Add 2.25g of TFA Peanut Butter and tare the scale
6) Add 22.48g of VG and tare the scale.

Turn off the scale, put the cap on the bottle, shake vigorously for a couple of minutes, label the bottle with the recipe name and mixing date, put it away in a dark, cool cupboard to steep and that's it. Easy peasy. No washing up, no fuss.

 

[Sheryl]

Thank you SO SO much! RichJB

 

[Sheryl]

One last question What's better Nic in PG or VG. I prefer 80VG/20PG mixes, so would it be better to get NIC in VG then, seeing as concentrates are PG?

 

[RichJB]

Eish, VG nic is a real pain to work with. You need to shake your nic before use to eliminate any hot spots in it. Shaking VG is like wading through quicksand. If you absolutely must, get VG nic. Another option might be to buy a bottle of 50/50 nic (hard to find) or to buy a bottle each of PG and VG 36mg nic and then mix them together in one container. For 3mg nic juice, 36mg nic will take up 8.3% of the mix. If you get 50/50 nic, your PG in the nic will be just over 4% of the total. So you could use up to 16% total flavouring, which is quite high by current DIY standards, and still hit your 80/20 balance.

 

[Sheryl]

Eish, VG nic is a real pain to work with. You need to shake your nic before use to eliminate any hot spots in it. Shaking VG is like wading through quicksand. If you absolutely must, get VG nic. Another option might be to buy a bottle of 50/50 nic (hard to find) or to buy a bottle each of PG and VG 36mg nic and then mix them together in one container. For 3mg nic juice, 36mg nic will take up 8.3% of the mix. If you get 50/50 nic, your PG in the nic will be just over 4% of the total. So you could use up to 16% total flavouring, which is quite high by current DIY standards, and still hit your 80/20 balance.

Awesome, Thanks!

 

[GregF]

You are going to keep your nic in the fridge/freezer and you reckon you have no patience, based on that alone and never mind any other pros or cons get PG nic

 

[Sheryl]

You are going to keep your nic in the fridge/freezer and you reckon you have no patience, based on that alone and never mind any other pros or cons get PG nic

Hehehe, noted Thanks

 

[Quintusson]

Glass or plastic? Or is that irrelevant.

My personal opinion is that I prefer glass. Can be reused many times with proper cleaning in between and there is no chance of residual taste staying behind (if you clean it properly).

I have kept every single bottle of juice I've vaped since the day I officially stopped cigarettes. Can I use those?

Yes you can. Just clean them properly as @RichJB mentioned. What I do as well is after I washed them, I take out my food steamer and then throw them in there for 10 minutes or so to sterilise them - works on the same principle as the microwave baby bottle sterilisers.

But mixing by weight is just so much easier and more precise. No washing up syringes, pipettes or beakers afterwards either.

I cannot agree more on this one. I started off mixing by volume but it is such a pain! Constant cleaning of syringes and they also only last that long, etc. Alas, there are times when one may need a syringe or two for concentrates which come in glass bottles from certain vendors and then I have some 60ml syringes I bought at Dischem which I use for my VG and PG mixing because throwing it straight from the bottle is nerve-wracking.

There are numerous recipe apps that you can use online or download to your phone or PC.

@RichJB and I use the exact same app. It is a awesome app and extremely easy to use. Also, if you buy new concentrates you can import them easily as well. You can get it here: http://www.diyjuicecalculator.com/

What's better Nic in PG or VG

For general DIY, and if you do not plan going above a 70/30 mix, then PG nic is fine. I use VG nic but it is due to me mixing at various levels and because concentrates are suspended in PG one cannot then add PG nic as well as it will then exceed the PG levels in the mix. E.g. if you do a 80/20 mix and your flavour total is 15%, then you need to remove 1gram of PG. Now how does one do that if your flavours are suspended in PG? You cannot, so you would need to reduce your flavour % totals.

 

[RichJB]

then I have some 60ml syringes I bought at Dischem which I use for my VG and PG mixing because throwing it straight from the bottle is nerve-wracking.

Have you tried these nozzles? I find they fit onto most PG and VG bottles and they make pouring an absolute breeze.

 

[aktorsyl]

Here's a question regarding PG Nic. I've always used VG Nic but recently (about a month ago) started going over to PG Nic. I draw the nic out of the bottle with a syringe (not to measure, just to transfer it into the bottle on the scale) when mixing. I never put my VG Nic into a HDPE dropper bottle because the nicotine managed to separate and concentrate itself in the dropper tip.

Does that happen with PG nic too, or is it good to go in an HDPE dropper bottle?

 

[RichJB]

I just use it in a dropper bottle. I haven't had any problems. I used to decant 100ml nic into 4x25ml droppers to reduce oxidation. But honestly, I use up 100ml fast enough that oxidation isn't a problem for me.

 

[GregF]

I just use it in a dropper bottle. I haven't had any problems. I used to decant 100ml nic into 4x25ml droppers to reduce oxidation. But honestly, I use up 100ml fast enough that oxidation isn't a problem for me.

yup me too.
100ml HDPE dropper bottle PG nic in the fridge.