So the Fake Juice Situation...

[Naubrey]

Hi all I am new to the forums and new to vaping (1 month)

After visiting Vapeking in Potch and getting myself a Vaporesso SWAG (Ugh that name) accompanied with 3 replacement coils and 2 Vapeking juices I started my journey to quitting the analogs.

After finishing my Vapeking juices which were a bit on the sweet and milky side for me I set out to get some new juice.

Without having to explain why, here in Kathu in the Northern Cape we have no vape shops around but somebody at work told me about a nice shop that stocked some affordable juice.

I went there and saw it, Nasty Juice, awesome packaging, great flavors and even better names for the flavors to boot.

So I went and got one that smelled the best for me and spent my R80 (Dead give away I realized later) on the bottle of Devils Teeth flavor.

Being a nerd, I googled Nasty Juice as soon as I got home to check them out and after being not able to verify the juice I sent an email and they confirmed that it was fake and possibly dangerous.

Now this was after checking online for all signs that will verify it was fake and honestly, this one looked and had all the things that would make it authentic, even the scratch top and sticker inside!

After contemplating if this would kill me and the need for nicotine kicked in I loaded my tank expecting a seizure or something on my first drag....

To my surprise this was the best tasting juice that I have experienced so far......

It had all the characteristics that they described that flavor would have on their site so I was happy.

Needless to say I finished that bottle and is really considering on buying more....

So my question is, are all these fake juices really THAT bad? I know there would be better fakes than other but my experience with the fake Nasty Juice was actually a pleasant one.

 

[RichJB]

I suppose, as with clone hardware, that there are better ones and worse ones. I don't think one can say that all are bad or all decent. Tastes also vary with juice, some like juices which others find unpalatable.

The problem with fakes is that they don't have a chain of custody which raises two problems. The first is that you don't know what's in the juice. That it tastes good doesn't mean it doesn't contain harmful stuff. The second problem is that if the vendor isn't concerned at selling fakes, they're not going to be concerned about replacing fakes from one source with fakes from another. So you could visit the same store in a few months, buy the same juice and find out that it's now totally disgusting because it's a different fake supplier. But because both are faking the same original brand, there is no way to tell them apart.

This is less of a problem with clone hardware as some clone manufacturers, like SXK, are happy to put their name on the clone and they have built a reputation for decent quality. But with juices, all bets are off. So you pays your money and you takes your chances, I guess.

 

[Naubrey]

I totally agree with that, and I think the problem is for me now, even though it tastes great, I dont know what the long term damage might be, its kind of a gamble.

Only thing for me is now, its easy to acquire as I said, I have no issue to buy real juice from reputable shops but everyone will charge me with a courier cost.

Do you know of any shops where couriers will charge at least less than 100 bucks?

I am more than willing to support the local juice guys and they are affordable but the whole courier thing for two 30ml or whatever bottles makes me cringe a bit, call me greedy but it feels like a moerse schlep and waste of money.

 

[RichJB]

Are juice vendors that expensive to courier? I don't know as I don't buy juice. I DIY and the DIY vendors are very reasonable. Some offer free delivery as long as you order R450-500 of stuff, others charge anywhere from R45 to R65 for courier. So the courier fees aren't an issue for me at all.

 

[craigb]

Are juice vendors that expensive to courier? I don't know as I don't buy juice. I DIY and the DIY vendors are very reasonable. Some offer free delivery as long as you order R450-500 of stuff, others charge anywhere from R45 to R65 for courier. So the courier fees aren't an issue for me at all.

I think @Naubrey's main problem is he stays well past the middle of nowhere. So couriers will charge an arm and a leg just to consider a delivery...

 

[RichJB]

Ah, right. I forgot that the free delivery option usually only applies to major centres.

 

[Naubrey]

Cor

I think @Naubrey's main problem is he stays well past the middle of nowhere. So couriers will charge an arm and a leg just to consider a delivery...

Correct!

I have been considering going the DIY route, is it really hard or will I be able to figure it out with enough youtube videos and google guides?

 

[RainstormZA]

I think @Naubrey's main problem is he stays well past the middle of nowhere. So couriers will charge an arm and a leg just to consider a delivery...

Same here.

Your best bet is to start diy juice - I live in the middle of nowhere. Worth paying couriers for a bunch of stuff to mix. I have 4 x 500ml bottles of diy juice to last me at least 4 months. At least I can change juices when it suits my mood and by far, much cheaper.

At least you know what goes in your juices versus unknown fakes.

So far, best juice I've conjured up is my peppermint crisp clone. Then there's my work in progress on the lemon cream filled cronut clone. I just need the right sweet lemon concentrate to complete it as a bottle of the original goes for nearly R400 a 60ml bottle.

 

[regularvapeguy]

Cor

Correct!

I have been considering going the DIY route, is it really hard or will I be able to figure it out with enough youtube videos and google guides?

Google and Youtube will be your friend here. Its easy to find recipes and tips and tricks.

Also, for mixing instructions you can try apps such as e-juice lab or e-liquid calculator.

The mixing is easy, the hard part is finding your winning recipe.

 

[craigb]

Cor

Correct!

I have been considering going the DIY route, is it really hard or will I be able to figure it out with enough youtube videos and google guides?

It's simultaneously the easiest thing in the world as well as the most difficult. Get your self a scale, a bunch of concentrate, bases and if you can read numbers, you can DIY.

Tasty, vapeable DIY... follow a recipe.

Tasty, vapeable DIY of your own invention.... I'm not in a position to comment on that as I haven't gotten it right yet.

But find yourself a few recipes on e-liquid-recipes.com or alltheflavors.com , order what is needed. When your order arrives, pop in to the forum, ask as many questions as you need to settle your mind before mixing and then, before you know it, you will be clouding the place up with yumminess-in-a-bottle(tm)(c) mixed by your own two hands.

If I may make 1 suggestion that I feel is really important, try a couple different flavour profiles to see what you like or tend towards. You may try something and while not enjoying that specific juice, you might enjoy the profile (bakery, desserts, fruits, etc) which will help you filter down to the recipes you will want to try.

Start up costs are a little steep, but DIYing pays itself off within a month or 2.

 

[Gizmo]

I can tell with you 1000% certainty that they will use sub-standard ingredients from nicotine to concentrates. The majority of fake juices are made in China, which I saw first hand. If you feel that inhaling unknown ingredients is worth it to you. Then go ahead. I personally would never touch such stuff.

 

[vicTor]

Cor

Correct!

I have been considering going the DIY route, is it really hard or will I be able to figure it out with enough youtube videos and google guides?

it's really easy, and you save a packet !

 

[RichJB]

I have been considering going the DIY route, is it really hard or will I be able to figure it out with enough youtube videos and google guides?

It's pretty easy to do. The tough part is that initially you will be overwhelmed by the sheer range of flavours and recipes on offer. But if you only want to courier supplies occasionally, DIY ingredients go a long way. If you drop a grand on your first DIY order (excl delivery), you would be able to get:
Scale R240
200ml 36mg PG nic: R190
2l VG: R90
500ml PG: R40
8x 50ml HDPE dropper bottles: R40
Witch's hat nozzles x2 for PG and VG bottles: R8
14 flavours @ +/-R28 each: R392
Total: R1000 on the dot

The trick will be finding 4 or 5 recipes you like which use the 14 flavours in total among them. That would be enough ingredients for you to make around 70 x 30ml bottles of 3mg juice before you had to re-order and courier again.

 

[Naubrey]

Awesome thanks all! I think I have an idea of what taste spectrum I prefer for now, I like the cooler more refreshing tastes, not overwhelming sweet and not too strong, just a hint of flavor on the exhale and definitely a fresh kick on the inhale, thus any fruity minty thing will work for me I think.

Can you recommend any shops that are reputable for DIY stuff? Even better would be if they offer a startup kit for DIY.

 

[Rude Rudi]

Same here.
So far, best juice I've conjured up is my peppermint crisp clone.

Mind to share what you are doing here - perhaps we can help to shape it for you a bit? Is there a thread...?

 

[RichJB]

I would avoid starter kits, they all give you syringes and beakers which are unnecessary. Get a scale and mix by weight from the get-go. It is easier, more accurate and less messy, no washing up of implements afterwards. I have tried all of the forum DIY vendors (Blck, The Flavour Mill, Valley Vapour, Vape Hyper, and others) and can recommend them all.

 

[Naubrey]

I would avoid starter kits, they all give you syringes and beakers which are unnecessary. Get a scale and mix by weight from the get-go. It is easier, more accurate and less messy, no washing up of implements afterwards. I have tried all of the forum DIY vendors (Blck, The Flavour Mill, Valley Vapour, Vape Hyper, and others) and can recommend them all.

Thanks Rich will do that!

One last thing guys, i'm using a 70/30 mix at the moment and would like to continue on this ratio, my question is, do I buy my Nicotine in VG or PG?
Also I see they got premixed 70/30 base liquids, will my nicotine depending on VG or PG screw with the premix ratio?

Thanks in advance!

 

[aktorsyl]

Thanks Rich will do that!

One last thing guys, i'm using a 70/30 mix at the moment and would like to continue on this ratio, my question is, do I buy my Nicotine in VG or PG?
Also I see they got premixed 70/30 base liquids, will my nicotine depending on VG or PG screw with the premix ratio?

Thanks in advance!

PG nicotine is easier to work with and will be fine with all modern recipes. In the old days when flavour concentrations were higher, it got tricky to maintain the ratio. But you'll have no problem with this at all.

PS: Not to mention that VG nicotine is pure hellspawn. I'll never use that shit again.

 

[RainstormZA]

Mind to share what you are doing here - perhaps we can help to shape it for you a bit? Is there a thread...?

Yes it's in one of the mint threads - @Andre has never updated the list so it's not included in the listing. My only issue is that according to @Faiyaz Cheulkar and @Humbolt's critique (I send them samples with a PIF), is that there is not enough chocolate in it. I have to agree with them - I had to increase from 2ml to 5ml of Cap Double Chocolate so hopefully that it is better as I still need to finish my 2nd batch and make another one to see if it's any better.

@Rude Rudi I'll just post a copy here anyway. The mint and cream are perfect as it is... It's just the chocolate that isn't coming out as nicely as the mint is.



Ignore the target ratio - I obviously forgot to correct it.

 

[RainstormZA]

PG nicotine is easier to work with and will be fine with all modern recipes. In the old days when flavour concentrations were higher, it got tricky to maintain the ratio. But you'll have no problem with this at all.

PS: Not to mention that VG nicotine is pure hellspawn. I'll never use that shit again.

What he said. PG is better - I have nic in VG and it's such a mission. PG is much easier and also the medium is much thinner than VG. Good Gods, I will never buy nic in VG again.

 

[Andre]

Yes it's in one of the mint threads - @Andre has never updated the list so it's not included in the listing.

Actually, it is listed in the Index @RainstormZA. Last updated on 30 April 2018.

 

[CharlieSierra]

I just feel like sharing my 2 cents so here it goes
The one main reason I tell my vaping friends to stay off of clones is the risk of contracting diseases or vaping harmfull chemicals.

I think @KZOR visited a juice manufacturer (video on YouTube) and he showed us what they call a "clean room".
These clean rooms have to have certain requirements to keep the juices as clean as possible. And from what I've heard these clean rooms are expensive.

These clone juices which sell for 80 bucks has no credibility as to where it is made. For all you know it's a startup clone juice manufacturer that mixes his stuff in his bathroom/bathtub. And even if they do have a lab they don't adhere to the same standards as juice companies cause they don't have to. I mean they have to cut costs somewhere.

I know juice can get expensive so maybe try your own DIY juice , there's alot of recipies on the ol' interweb.

And with R500 worth of DIY supplies you can be set for a long while.
It might not taste exactly like store bought juice but hey it's the nic fix that matters

 

[RainstormZA]

Actually, it is listed in the Index @RainstormZA. Last updated on 30 April 2018.

Thank you so much!!! I didn't check today as I have too much going on with my mom being away til 21 June. A farm isn't for sissies. Lol.

 

[aktorsyl]

I just feel like sharing my 2 cents so here it goes
The one main reason I tell my vaping friends to stay off of clones is the risk of contracting diseases or vaping harmfull chemicals.

I think @KZOR visited a juice manufacturer (video on YouTube) and he showed us what they call a "clean room".
These clean rooms have to have certain requirements to keep the juices as clean as possible. And from what I've heard these clean rooms are expensive.

These clone juices which sell for 80 bucks has no credibility as to where it is made. For all you know it's a startup clone juice manufacturer that mixes his stuff in his bathroom/bathtub. And even if they do have a lab they don't adhere to the same standards as juice companies cause they don't have to. I mean they have to cut costs somewhere.

I know juice can get expensive so maybe try your own DIY juice , there's alot of recipies on the ol' interweb.

And with R500 worth of DIY supplies you can be set for a long while.
It might not taste exactly like store bought juice but hey it's the nic fix that matters

Very true. But most juice manufacturers don't use clean rooms anymore, they use labs - usually certified labs. The fakes (don't call them clones, clones are what we call the legitimate DIY recreations of commercial juices) are obviously not made in a lab. Most likely in the back of a car repair shop for all we know. Stay away from that shit.

 

[Gandalf Vapes]

PS: Not to mention that VG nicotine is pure hellspawn. I'll never use that shit again.

I agree 100% with that statement. When I bought my first DIY ingredients, I made the mistake of buying the VG based nicotine. It is hell to mix with. I don't think I have done a mix where I haven't gone over with the nicotine. Fortunately for me that few mg extra doesn't kill my mixes. I usually mix in 250ml batches, so the extra few mg doesn't have that big an effect on the mix.