The Vaping Scumbags

[Silver]

Hi guys
A post above has been edited
We removed the contents of a private message that was shared publicly

Please respect forum rules. Don't share private messages publicly unless you have permission from the other person.

 

[Chukin'Vape]

Our intention is to debate possible avenues

Posting this here on the forum so people can see the bad apples in this community. This is what makes a community not grow. People like this. Always have a problem with everything. The people doing the least to make a difference always has the biggest mouth.
A constructive comment giving advice is a different thing from what u are doing @zandernwn
Firstly this comment on youtube. View attachment 136017


U are a sad person @zandernwn

Thanks @bjorncoetsee - I responded to the public comment on the page.



So the intention was never to ruffle any features, our video is purely debating the topic at hand - in a effort to look at the best, and most logical business case going forward. There is a lack of information about the angle "we" will take, therefore we debate all angles on the show. I think @zandernwn might have miss understood our intentions.

 

[boxerulez]

Hi guys
A post above has been edited
We removed the contents of a private message that was shared publicly

Please respect forum rules. Don't share private messages publicly unless you have permission from the other person.

In my honest opinion, a private message on your platform, is yours to regulate @Silver

What comes from outside ECIGSSA should not be censored. Once you click send it is out there @zandernwn your membership fees here should not save you from that. (This however will be a clear indication of the moral compass of this forum)


"The South African government recently criminalised malicious communications in South Africa, setting out a number of vague new messaging rules which could see you facing a hefty amount of jail time and/or a fine – even if your message is private."

https://businesstech.co.za/news/int...-facebook-or-whatsapp-even-if-theyre-private/

 

[Silver]

Hi @boxerulez

Not sure I understand you correctly. Maybe you can clarify.

We just trying to uphold our rules here which we've had in place for a long time. It's not right to share private messages in public.

No one is being protected or anything like that. And it has nothing to do with supporting vendorship at all.

But if someone sends a private message intended for a recipient then it's not right for that message to be shared publicly. That's our forum rules. Simple as that.

 

[boxerulez]

Hi @boxerulez

Not sure I understand you correctly. Maybe you can clarify.

We just trying to uphold our rules here which we've had in place for a long time. It's not right to share private messages in public.

No one is being protected or anything like that. And it has nothing to do with supporting vendorship at all.

But if someone sends a private message intended for a recipient then it's not right for that message to be shared publicly. That's our forum rules. Simple as that.

I am aware of the rule but I and many have interpreted it in such a manner that it was to protect abuse of the private messages system here on the forum. What is sent directly to a cellphone is not the private property of the sender but that of the recipient as well and Ecigssa enters into protection and safeguarding of that info/data absolutely nowhere.

 

[boxerulez]

I would also like to bring to your attention the following from the official rules...

"PM's (Private Messages)

It is not allowed to disclose the contents of or the participants to a PM at all, it is regarded as confidential between the participants. Unless of course the PM itself is against the rules (like punting) or one has permission from all participants to disclose. The Private Message is just that... Private between the participants."


If you examine the underlined above, if you are going to consider all forms of private communication as governable by Ecigssa, then surely the post should be re entered into this thread on the basis of it being outisde of the acceptable communication guidelines as that messages is dirty, below the belt and uncalled for and hence against the rules we adhere to here. (or are supposed to anyway)

 

[RainstormZA]

Ugh... Politics again...

 

[Silver]

Hi @boxerulez

Not sure why you are so upset about us removing a private message that was shared publicly.

To our knowledge that message was a private message between two people. That sort of thing should not be shared on here publicly.

If you would like to discuss that further then please feel free to send me or any of the Admin and Mod team a PM.

 

[RainstormZA]

BTW what private message @Silver? That post you mentioned isn't a private message, unless I"m looking at the wrong post. In my opinion, that is a public comment made on another platform and being directed at one of the members who frequent here on Ecigssa, publicly of course.

 

[Alex]

BTW what private message @Silver? That post you mentioned isn't a private message, unless I"m looking at the wrong post. In my opinion, that is a public comment made on another platform and being directed at one of the members who frequent here on Ecigssa, publicly of course.

The "private message" part was removed.

 

[aktorsyl]

In fact, since this whole thread has spiralled into a small group of people flinging crap at each other, would it not be best for you all to continue your fight in private?

We're trying to debate legislation and advocacy and all that pops up inbetween are snide comments from multiple avenues. It's sickening. I'm not choosing sides, I'm not even addressing anyone specifically. I'm just not in the mood for toxic bullshit on a public community forum when it doesn't have to be.

 

[boxerulez]

The "private message" part was removed.

the screenshot of whatsapp was removed you mean, but anyway. Its clear in this forum that the rules will always suit the paying vendor agenda. And that I can live with, if there is transparency in this regard.

 

[Alex]

the screenshot of whatsapp was removed you mean, but anyway. Its clear in this forum that the rules will always suit the paying vendor agenda. And that I can live with, if there is transparency in this regard.

We do not have an agenda regarding vendors. We do however have very clear rules with regard to doxxing and or posting private details in public.

The "punting" refers to anyone who thinks it's a clever idea to use the PM system to spam everyone.

 

[zandernwn]

Firstly, I fail to understand why ecigssa is being attacked. The rules are clear. Even as supporting vendor we abide by the same rules as everyone else.

I send that message do Daniel last night in private. I was and I still am extremely annoyed with the content of their show.

It is unacceptable to present a show to help the community better understand the new regulations and then present incorrect information. My issue with their show is summarized in four simple points:
· Their interpretation of the proposed bill is factually incorrect
· Their commentary in relation to the “knee-jerk reactions”, “inability” and “lack of experience” by the vaping industry is unfounded. I would accept your comments if you knew what you were talking about but its painfully clear that you have very little insight and knowledge into this subject matter. It was irresponsible to put information into the public domain without verifying your understanding first.
· The arguments you put forward was almost irrelevant in its entirety and just confusing the community in an environment where uncertainty and confusion already reigns supreme. You are confusing lines between NRTs, ENDS and tobacco, the lines between harm reduction vs. tobacco, between nicotine products ad nicotine free products. You just making everything worse than is already is
· You were irresponsible to go online without researching this properly. you presented opinions and fact and I have an issue with that in particular.

I chose to discuss this with Daniel in private, because my intention was not to bring the channel into disrepute. You may not like how I spoke to him but frankly I don't really care. I am not here to babysit his or your feelings. I posted that message on their channel to register my objection only after Daniel made it clear he is not interested talking to me.

I am not at all surprised that the message was shared or are doing the rounds. The reality is while we focus on that, the real issue is not addressed and all this is reduced to is a ***** fight on the interwebs. There is nothing to gain in spending energy this petty kak.

But if you are serious about resolving this; My telephone number is 082 551 5538. My commitment to you is that I will set the time aside for everyone who would like to discuss this further - the channel owners included. but I am not going to do it on social media where people are more interested in winning the favor of the crowd than resolving the matter at hand. If the channel owners wishes to bring Kabir on to their show as guest I would happily put them in touch with him so they can get the ball rolling. So if you want to continue having a right go at me, then don't let me hold you back. If you want to resolve this, pick up the phone and speak with me.

 

[zandernwn]

I might be ruffling some feathers but what are the vendors doing besides posting links to petitions and doing live shows?

We are at the presepous....and what we do from here is entirely up to us...and the legal system...

You are welcome to call me and i will explain. There is a massive collective effort underway with over 170 vendors, juice makers and local and international industry representatives and govt stakeholders on board. The signed petitions by the public is but one of the tools employed to supplement the collective effort which is a long term multi-faceted programme.

It is ill advised at this time to discourage people from participating in signing the petition. There is purpose behind it.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[zandernwn]

U

In short, u have something against the scumbags because ur juices is easily cloned and ur 600k lawyers couldn't do a thing to prevent that

Seriosuly.. Who told you that hahaha?

If i were to put a lawyer behind everyone who tried to clone our products.. I wouldnt have time to run the business my friend.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[Chukin'Vape]

Firstly, I fail to understand why ecigssa is being attacked. The rules are clear. Even as supporting vendor we abide by the same rules as everyone else.

I send that message do Daniel last night in private. I was and I still am extremely annoyed with the content of their show.

It is unacceptable to present a show to help the community better understand the new regulations and then present incorrect information. My issue with their show is summarized in four simple points:
· Their interpretation of the proposed bill is factually incorrect
· Their commentary in relation to the “knee-jerk reactions”, “inability” and “lack of experience” by the vaping industry is unfounded. I would accept your comments if you knew what you were talking about but its painfully clear that you have very little insight and knowledge into this subject matter. It was irresponsible to put information into the public domain without verifying your understanding first.
· The arguments you put forward was almost irrelevant in its entirety and just confusing the community in an environment where uncertainty and confusion already reigns supreme. You are confusing lines between NRTs, ENDS and tobacco, the lines between harm reduction vs. tobacco, between nicotine products ad nicotine free products. You just making everything worse than is already is
· You were irresponsible to go online without researching this properly. you presented opinions and fact and I have an issue with that in particular.

I chose to discuss this with Daniel in private, because my intention was not to bring the channel into disrepute. You may not like how I spoke to him but frankly I don't really care. I am not here to babysit his or your feelings. I posted that message on their channel to register my objection only after Daniel made it clear he is not interested talking to me.

I am not at all surprised that the message was shared or are doing the rounds. The reality is while we focus on that, the real issue is not addressed and all this is reduced to is a ***** fight on the interwebs. There is nothing to gain in spending energy this petty kak.

But if you are serious about resolving this; My telephone number is 082 551 5538. My commitment to you is that I will set the time aside for everyone who would like to discuss this further - the channel owners included. but I am not going to do it on social media where people are more interested in winning the favor of the crowd than resolving the matter at hand. If the channel owners wishes to bring Kabir on to their show as guest I would happily put them in touch with him so they can get the ball rolling. So if you want to continue having a right go at me, then don't let me hold you back. If you want to resolve this, pick up the phone and speak with me.

I have Kabir's number - thanks Zander, we are planning to invite him for a future show. You obviously have a strong opinion about this, and I can appreciate that - ultimately the idea is to analyse all aspects of a topic, with the information we have - and provide opinions and commentary on it. Its a podcast, and you are always welcome to respond on the comments, and in this thread.

We need to have the ability to debate regulation in a open forum without getting too xhyped up about it.

 

[zandernwn]

I have Kabir's number - thanks Zander, we are planning to invite him for a future show. You obviously have a strong opinion about this, and I can appreciate that - ultimately the idea is to analyse all aspects of a topic, with the information we have - and provide opinions and commentary on it. Its a podcast, and you are always welcome to respond on the comments, and in this thread.

We need to have the ability to debate regulation in a open forum without getting too xhyped up about it.

We also need to be responsible with the content we put out there.. This is not a flavour note where the wrong % mean we lose a 10ml of liquid. You need to get the facts straightend asap.


Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[Daniel]

You are welcome to call me and i will explain. There is a massive collective effort underway with over 170 vendors, juice makers and local and international industry representatives and govt stakeholders on board. The signed petitions by the public is but one of the tools employed to supplement the collective effort which is a long term multi-faceted programme.

It is ill advised at this time to discourage people from participating in signing the petition. There is purpose behind it.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Thanks for the feedback and let me be the first to commend you for your efforts
This is all we as a community want , some feedback. I for one also posted a video , more of a tongue in cheek video about the whole debacle but I see now it's much more serious than I initially thought.

As you rightly said , everyone is on edge and not fully informed on the process that is currently happening , hence there was a separate section created by the admins (@Silver ?) for all parties involved to share the progress , yet I don't see any posts or threads made to that effect ? Public perception (including the vaping public) needs to be managed as not to create panic and the ever growing phase of creating 'drama' on Youtube just for views ....

I think the intent of the last Scumbags episode was to create debate and discuss THEIR views on the topic , again it's a free society but yes us as content creators or podcast creators need to be responsible in what we put out to the public , I for one will think twice before commenting on these matters as it's well , legal stuff of which I know little of (hence I didn't go in depth on it in my video ....).

 

[Chukin'Vape]

Thanks for the feedback and let me be the first to commend you for your efforts
This is all we as a community want , some feedback. I for one also posted a video , more of a tongue in cheek video about the whole debacle but I see now it's much more serious than I initially thought.

As you rightly said , everyone is on edge and not fully informed on the process that is currently happening , hence there was a separate section created by the admins (@Silver ?) for all parties involved to share the progress , yet I don't see any posts or threads made to that effect ? Public perception (including the vaping public) needs to be managed as not to create panic and the ever growing phase of creating 'drama' on Youtube just for views ....

I think the intent of the last Scumbags episode was to create debate and discuss THEIR views on the topic , again it's a free society but yes us as content creators or podcast creators need to be responsible in what we put out to the public , I for one will think twice before commenting on these matters as it's well , legal stuff of which I know little of (hence I didn't go in depth on it in my video ....).

Its extremely healthy for a community to discuss and debate these kind of difficult topics, if we are worried to voice our opinions we are living in extremely dark times.

 

[Daniel]

Its extremely healthy for a community to discuss and debate these kind of difficult topics, if we are worried to voice our opinions we are living in extremely dark times.

And I fully agree , it's a free society but we have a responsibility as content creators and reviewers to check our facts before we debate subjects....
For me , if we don't stand together as a community on this , we will fail as a community ....

Kudos for you guys speaking and debating this sensitive topic , and I hope everyone takes away the positive at least from it.

 

[Chukin'Vape]

And I fully agree , it's a free society but we have a responsibility as content creators and reviewers to check our facts before we debate subjects....
For me , if we don't stand together as a community on this , we will fail as a community ....

Kudos for you guys speaking and debating this sensitive topic , and I hope everyone takes away the positive at least from it.

Thanks D, we do check our facts, what we have here is just a difference in opinion. Thanks for your positive feedback.

 

[Chukin'Vape]

- in this show we run through 2 JuiceFairy recipes and two amazing Mango's. CHECK IT OUT.

 

[Chukin'Vape]

Episode 2 on regulation is out. Myself and Richard dive deep into the reality if online sales were ultimately banned.

 

[Silver]

Would love to watch this @Chukin'Vape - just am furiously busy right now...


Will have to watch later....