Yeah I did derail this thread. Only because I'm so frustrated with Ejuice makers price locking.
My apologies. no more from me.
My apologies. no more from me.
This needs to be said!
- Thread starter Cespian
- Start date
This doesn't factor in development time, R&D etc.
Similarly, why can't you buy an iphone or a mercedes or a bottle of Absolut for the cost of materials alone?
We can start a seperate thread to dicuss this.
It's not piracy if it's not patented/copyrighted.
Yes, we probably could
I think I get where you're coming from, but just know there are people in the business that take this work very seriously, aren't profiteering scumbags & take pride in their work.
As for ejuice recipes being "patentable" - in other industries recipes ARE patentable - look at coca cola. (actually I just double checked and it's not patented - it's just top secret) - but there are patented recipes in other markets.
Current innovators in this new market space are simply waiting for laws to catch up
Yes, we probably could
I think I get where you're coming from, but just know there are people in the business that take this work very seriously, aren't profiteering scumbags & take pride in their work.
As for ejuice recipes being "patentable" - in other industries recipes ARE patentable - look at coca cola. (actually I just double checked and it's not patented - it's just top secret) - but there are patented recipes in other markets.
Current innovators in this new market space are simply waiting for laws to catch up
I'm not saying they are, I'm merely stating that moaning about vendors copying recipes and reselling isn't going to solve anything as it's a free market.
*snip*
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I edited my post above to reflect that before you replied.
There are specialised process in the business as well, I'm not implying that everyone utilises them but I suggest you do a little bit more research.
It seems to me we have to agree to disagree, if this was as easy as you suggest every juice would be awesome. Simply not the case.
EDIT:
And if you truly feel ripped off, DIY is the way to go. I think most, if not all DIYers have at least had the hands on experience to know that the minority of online recipes are any good, and that there are a few SKILLED individuals who distinguish themselves. I believe these people deserve reward & credit for their abilities,
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Granted that is true.
But if those processes weren't obvious then the juices wouldn't be easy to copy(or figure out how to copy) and we wouldn't be discussing this.
Actually the OP is talking about using online recipes - known as clones, the vast majority of which are not true or equal representations of the original.
So then what's the problem?
If they're not 1-1 copies of the ejuice then it shows that the vendors product is over engineered and the people would be willing to make a sacrifice on quality for cost saving. Then they're not buying a "copy" they're buying a different , but very similar, product.
I knew this would be a contentious issue and I'm glad people are discussing the issue without getting personal... my stand has always been that I hate the fact that cloners clone and I think it's stealing. I'm also glad that despite many attempts my ADV hasn't been cloned and no one has ever come close to cloning it!
Exactly, right there is a secret recipe. One good way to protect the juice from being cloned.I knew this would be a contentious issue and I'm glad people are discussing the issue without getting personal... my stand has always been that I hate the fact that cloners clone and I think it's stealing. I'm also glad that despite many attempts my ADV hasn't been cloned and no one has ever come close to cloning it!
Lmao
Wait, is Land Wind not the original?
Imagine what a toffee you'd feel like in that when the Evoque pulls up next to you.
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I have made plen
The worst part is that the name doesn't even make any sense... I mean, what on earth is Land Wind - Wind is moving air, so is land wind moving land... This deserves its own thread lol
The worst part is that the name doesn't even make any sense... I mean, what on earth is Land Wind - Wind is moving air, so is land wind moving land... This deserves its own thread lol
This would have fitted in just fine in the off topic thread "Musings" --->http://www.ecigssa.co.za/musings-philosophical-or-commonplace.t20009/
which incidently, I started for just this kind of thing.
This would have fitted in just fine in the off topic thread "Musings" --->http://www.ecigssa.co.za/musings-philosophical-or-commonplace.t20009/
which incidently, I started for just this kind of thing.
I expected this topic to gather some steam hence rather dedicating its own space
I hear you, it seemed more a question of ethics than "who has stock".I expected this topic to gather some steam hence rather dedicating its own space
I agree, its bad form to showboat on somebody else's hard work and charge their price, clones should always be cheaper, thats if the individual is content with intellectual theft.
All you have to do is remove or change the badges on the landy windy then you sorted
Just debadge and say it is the faceliftAll you have to do is remove or change the badges on the landy windy then you sorted
With aaaaaalll being said (incl. Landwings and Mapple pPhones), I don't think there is too much to be concerned about. There definitely is a market for both great originals, and good quality clones (eg, clone juices made properly).
The majority of juices which have garnered popularity on this forum have been originals. I hope the sales generally reflect this.
Juice makers who cannot come up with a few decent recipes on their own have to get people interested in their line in different ways - whether it is pricing, marketing, packaging or whatnot. Which is really a skill on its own as well. And while many of us have specific ADV's we keep ordering/making, most of us are still intrigued by a new, original juice hitting the shelves. Ergo, there is a market for both clones and originals in this country (at least at the moment).
I have a buddy who almost refuses to pay more than R80 for a bottle of juice. He is ok with vaping poor quality stuff - but every now and then he'll buy a special bottle of premium juice which he savours. I would guess it is the same for many people here, in terms of clones and originals. Many people buy clones (usually a specific brand), but every now and then will buy something out of their normal profile, which is 10-to-1 an original. Whether this new acquisition will become a re-order will be case-to-case dependent.
Finally, while the larger market might not care about these things, many of us do take into account the human spirit. For instance, I was a bit worried when I originally noticed that @method1 was brining out a Rhodonite clone. However, since this was done in a) collaboration with DIYorDIe, and b) clearly stated in this manner, I applaud him and his juice line - and will re-order, even though I can make a (sub-par) Rhodonite myself. Since the vaping community in SA is generally still a smallish crowd, supply and demand is not yet the defining rules of the market. I mean, you meet some of the mixers, you chat to vendors, you taste a few juices with a buddy, you read all of @Rob Fisher 's comments... all of these factors combine when you make the decision to buy a specific juice. In this regard our industry is similar to the wine industry - even though there are many bottles of the same thing available, the situation when you taste a wine for the first time has a very big influence on what you buy next. Whether it was at a tasting, or at a braai, or with a good friend - all of these factor in when buying a bottle of wine, with taste and price occasionally playing a smaller role.
TL;DR: I believe (despite some previous posts) that there is more than enough of a market for clones as well as originals to thrive here. Maybe different pricing options will eventually emerge in the market to reflect the effort mixologists spend to develop a new juice.
The majority of juices which have garnered popularity on this forum have been originals. I hope the sales generally reflect this.
Juice makers who cannot come up with a few decent recipes on their own have to get people interested in their line in different ways - whether it is pricing, marketing, packaging or whatnot. Which is really a skill on its own as well. And while many of us have specific ADV's we keep ordering/making, most of us are still intrigued by a new, original juice hitting the shelves. Ergo, there is a market for both clones and originals in this country (at least at the moment).
I have a buddy who almost refuses to pay more than R80 for a bottle of juice. He is ok with vaping poor quality stuff - but every now and then he'll buy a special bottle of premium juice which he savours. I would guess it is the same for many people here, in terms of clones and originals. Many people buy clones (usually a specific brand), but every now and then will buy something out of their normal profile, which is 10-to-1 an original. Whether this new acquisition will become a re-order will be case-to-case dependent.
Finally, while the larger market might not care about these things, many of us do take into account the human spirit. For instance, I was a bit worried when I originally noticed that @method1 was brining out a Rhodonite clone. However, since this was done in a) collaboration with DIYorDIe, and b) clearly stated in this manner, I applaud him and his juice line - and will re-order, even though I can make a (sub-par) Rhodonite myself. Since the vaping community in SA is generally still a smallish crowd, supply and demand is not yet the defining rules of the market. I mean, you meet some of the mixers, you chat to vendors, you taste a few juices with a buddy, you read all of @Rob Fisher 's comments... all of these factors combine when you make the decision to buy a specific juice. In this regard our industry is similar to the wine industry - even though there are many bottles of the same thing available, the situation when you taste a wine for the first time has a very big influence on what you buy next. Whether it was at a tasting, or at a braai, or with a good friend - all of these factor in when buying a bottle of wine, with taste and price occasionally playing a smaller role.
TL;DR: I believe (despite some previous posts) that there is more than enough of a market for clones as well as originals to thrive here. Maybe different pricing options will eventually emerge in the market to reflect the effort mixologists spend to develop a new juice.
My existing line is in partnership with Wayne, therefore not a clone, it's the OG real deal.
A clone would be using one of those recipes, changing something a little (or not) and then claiming originality as the cherry on top
That's the issue the OP brought up.
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