VSML: Proposed E-Liquid Tax Survey

[Grand Guru]

Have I missed the boat / miscalculated? as my math and the example don't match

Assuming the example given below, of a 100ml bottle of juice at 6mg/ml;
A 100ml bottle of juice would be taxed as follows;
Volume Tax calculated at 87cents per ml (100 *.87) = R87.00
Nic. Tax calculated at R2.03 per mg (100 * 6 * 2.93) = R1758.00
Plus the cost of the juice itself
Plus VAT on top of this

As I understand this, we would be paying R1845 + additional VAT of R276.75, (R2121.75), over and above whatever we are currently paying for a 100ml bottle of 6mg juice ... I guess I'll be going back to cigarettes

One shot DIY will be the way to go. They won’t increase taxes on PG/VG, I guess.

 

[Intuthu Kagesi]

This whole thing is insane! If the govt. wants more money they should increase the price of stinkies, but that won't happen, will it?
Vape prices will go up which will hardly motivate smokers to quit. And some vapers who are already battling to afford it might go back to stinkies.

The whole vape industry will collapse ...
If I consider my monthly MTL eliquid consumption as some 200ml of 12mg/ml ... I'll be paying R8487.00 MORE, over and above what I'm currently paying, as apposed some R3500 a month (for a two pack of Camel Classics a day smoker) ...

O wait ... don't Kopdoek and son own shares in the illicit cigarette trade

 

[Puff the Magic Dragon]

Pg, VG and food flavourings are all widely used commercially. If these were to be taxed at high rates it would be hard to justify because they are primarily used for non-vaping purposes. They could only be taxed if packaged for vaping use.

The only ingredient for DIY which will be taxed is nic.

Is this correct?

 

[vicTor]

I recall reading somewhere that synthetic nicotine can't be taxed the same as normal nic, is this true ?

 

[Grand Guru]

I recall reading somewhere that synthetic nicotine can't be taxed the same as normal nic, is this true ?

Yes, because it is not considered as a nicotine product… some of the American juice makers are considering it in order to keep their prices competitive

 

[Intuthu Kagesi]

I recall reading somewhere that synthetic nicotine can't be taxed the same as normal nic, is this true ?

Partially correct ... it's still a poison ... I heard rumblings of it being labeled / marketed as a weed killer in the US

 

[Grand Guru]

Here is more info
https://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/early/2021/09/07/tobaccocontrol-2021-056626

Synthetic nicotine has arrived

Abstract
The introduction of a new product line of the popular disposable electronic cigarette brand Puffbar, advertised as containing synthetic nicotine, has drawn attention to the increasing use of synthetic nicotine in marketed products and its uncertain regulatory status. A search of the Truth Tobacco Industry Documents revealed that the industry considered using synthetic nicotine already in the 1960s, efforts that were abandoned due to high costs and insufficient purity. Recent patents revealed renewed efforts to develop more efficient strategies for the synthesis of nicotine. Nicotine exists as two stereoisomers, S-nicotine and R-nicotine. While S-nicotine is the prevalent (>99%) form of nicotine in tobacco, a market-leading form of synthetic nicotine contains both stereoisomers at equal amounts, raising concerns about inaccurate labelling and the poorly understood health effects of R-nicotine. Other manufacturers, including a leading vendor of pharmaceutical grade nicotine, developed stereospecific strategies to synthesise pure S-nicotine, now added to electronic cigarette products marketed in the USA and UK. While S-nicotine and R-nicotine can be differentiated by enantioselective High Performance Liquid Chromatography (HPLC), differentiation of synthetic (fossil-derived) from tobacco-derived S-nicotine will require development of methods to measure carbon isotope (14C or 13C) content. Vendors claim that the FDA has no authority to regulate synthetic nicotine as a tobacco product, allowing them to circumvent the premarket tobacco product application process. However, legal analysis suggests that FDA may have the authority to regulate synthetic nicotine as a drug. Alternatively, Congress needs to include nicotine from any source within the legal definition of tobacco products.

 

[vicTor]

can't win can we

 

[Hooked]

https://www.ecigarettedirect.co.uk/ashtray-blog/2021/12/vaping-predictions-2022.html

Tim Phillips: E-Cigarette Intelligence
"The US Senate has blocked the implementation of a federal tax on vaping because it would be deemed regressive, particularly given that it would tax some vape products higher than combustible cigarettes."

 

[AstroT]

This whole thing is insane! If the govt. wants more money they should increase the price of stinkies, but that won't happen, will it?
Vape prices will go up which will hardly motivate smokers to quit. And some vapers who are already battling to afford it might go back to stinkies.

If the Government want more money they should crack down on illegal cigarettes but too many ministers and other cadres make a killing off the illegal market.

In fact my tinfoil hat suggests this is exactly why they are trying to tax vaping.

I know many many people that quit during initial covid lockdown and I think this has hit both the legal and illegal profits to the extent that they want to find an alternative or just simply get vapers back to tobacco.

 

[AstroT]

Link to survey: https://forms.gle/zjSawLh1dyBioB9s5

Is it possible to see the results of the questionnaire?

Very curious now...

 

[baksteen8168]

Done

 

[DarthBranMuffin]

For those that missed Wing-It with @KZOR tonight, here is the link... Kurt Yeo @Vaping Saved My Life was the guest:



www.vsml.co.za
www.vpasa.org.za

 

[Vaping Saved My Life]

Just a quick question
This tax is it also gonna be for nicotine we buy(diy) or is it just for shop juices

Concentrates, PG and VG will prove difficult due to the range of applications in other industries. However, DIY Nic will certainly be included.

 

[Vaping Saved My Life]

One shot DIY will be the way to go. They won’t increase taxes on PG/VG, I guess.

According to the discussion document the tax range is from 33.30 to 346.00 therefore calculating using this method will put almost every product outside the max. (if that makes sense)

 

[Vaping Saved My Life]

I recall reading somewhere that synthetic nicotine can't be taxed the same as normal nic, is this true ?

The discussion document covers all Nic. As per point 7.11 these products will be subjected to a lab test, thereby closing the loophole. We shouldn't get confused with the situation that is facing the FDA, where this has been seen as a loophole. Remember this is a tax discussion and not a regulatory one.

 

[Dela Rey Steyn]

The e-liquid tax discussion document released by South Africa National Treasury on 15 December 2021 recommends a hybrid tax model. The model includes a volume portion (price per ml) and a nicotine portion (price per mg of nicotine), making ALL e-liquids taxable. It is proposed that total excise duty ranging from as low as R33,30 to R346,00 be implemented, which would mean a retail price increase from 19% - 204%
If successful, this will have a huge impact on people who chose a safer alternative to combustible tobacco, as well as deter smokers from making the switch.
1. The form should take no longer than two minutes to complete.
2. Names and email addresses will be kept strictly confidential and used for submission verification purposes ONLY.
3. Data will be included in the VSML submission to the National Treasury.
4. Please share with family and friends who use electronic cigarettes/vapes
Link to survey: https://forms.gle/zjSawLh1dyBioB9s5

Images are based on Option 1 of the proposed tax.

Testimonials : https://vsml.co.za/testimonial-form

Survey : https://forms.gle/zjSawLh1dyBioB9s5

 

[Mollie]

Concentrates, PG and VG will prove difficult due to the range of applications in other industries. However, DIY Nic will certainly be included.

Thanks that's why I'm gonna stock up on nic (PANIC BUYING LOL)

 

[Dela Rey Steyn]

Thanks that's why I'm gonna stock up on nic (PANIC BUYING LOL)

Stocking up is not helping the bigger picture, we need to form part of the solution, we need to fill in surveys, complete testimonials, share the posts to spread awareness, encourage others to do the same, if possible help monetarily to get organizations like VSML and VPASA all the help and tools that they need to fight this on the right levels.

 

[Intuthu Kagesi]

Stocking up is not helping the bigger picture, we need to form part of the solution, we need to fill in surveys, complete testimonials, share the posts to spread awareness, encourage others to do the same, if possible help monetarily to get organizations like VSML and VPASA all the help and tools that they need to fight this on the right levels.

I'll say it more simply ... At the very least answer the questionnaire, and if you've managed to quit stinkies and get your health back ... then send a testimonial too!

These guys are fighting on your behalf dammit ... If you choose to be apathetic, then you lose the right to whine when government impose their completely unrealistic taxation ... nuff said!

 

[Mollie]

Stocking up is not helping the bigger picture, we need to form part of the solution, we need to fill in surveys, complete testimonials, share the posts to spread awareness, encourage others to do the same, if possible help monetarily to get organizations like VSML and VPASA all the help and tools that they need to fight this on the right levels.

I did my part on the surveys etc. The main problem with other vapers(new and old) is that it's their choice to do surveys and testimonials we know how expensive vape gear and juices can get but we can't force the others to do what we do. Soos ons se 'Jy Kan die perd na die water bring Maar jy Kan hom nie maak drink nie'. Some people in our country sit back and want everything else to sort out problems For them. If you understand what I'm saying

 

[JuanB]

Done. This is absolutely ridiculous!

 

[ddk1979]

Done

 

[The Golden Cauldron]

Done and shared. Thank you for the work put in.

 

[Paul33]