A new low

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RichJB said:
If it was about lost revenue, govts would have unbanned drugs long ago. How much money are they losing every year by drug street corner cash sales going untaxed? It must be trillions of dollars globally. Keeping a product legal and taxing it is far more profitable than attempting to ban it. If govt was worried about losing tobacco revenue to vaping, they wouldn't ban vaping. They'd tax it. And are already doing so in places like Portugal, Italy, Philadelphia, and others.
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you have a point to a certain degree...
when they legalized the Maryjane they still did not have rules or should I say laws in place.
for that they use precedents in which case there aren't any.
so they could not even stop a minor from smoking weed.
and this happened in front of me. Then they said do it in your house.
there is nothing before vaping to make it legal or illegal and there's no tax precedent on vaping.
What they can do is tax he store that sells the vape products.
now if there were rules before this they could tax vaping.(mods,juice,parts etc)
the billions they loose on other illegal drugs they make up by selling it back on the black market when they raid.
They might even burn a few thousands worth of drugs on tv but not all and that to show us they are doing something.
Imagine this great first world country banning vaping?
no...,they would rather promote something they can make money on
,but what do I know???
 
Which first world country are you talking about? And what are they promoting that they can make money on?
 
I have so far developed my own "conspiracy theories" about the government stance regarding vaping and why they are trying to bring it down.

If you look through this list you will find all assets declared by MP's for 2017. You will find Pravin Gordhan and Pieter Mulder have got generous shares in British American Tobacco. A search on any news site will show the links of the EFF and ANC members to various cigarette syndicates, legal and illegal. So if vaping increases, tobacco industry decreases they lose money out of their pocket. So why wouldn't they use their positions of power to influence the market in order to save their pockets? They do it on a daily basis by now.

And then why would the Tobacco Alcohol and Gambling Advisory, Advocacy and Action Group be against vaping? Same reason all Cancer groups are against it. They are a NPO and thus stand for grants from government and the Lottery. If less people smoke tobacco, less people get sick, and less money gets handed down. Just look at the resume of Peter Ucko, CEO of the TAG group. All business and administration qualifications. No medical qualifications. It's all about the money.

But like I said, its just conspiracy theories I have cooked up on my travels through the interwebs. I might be way off the mark, but there might just be some truth in my suspicions.
 
Adephi said:
I have so far developed my own "conspiracy theories" about the government stance regarding vaping and why they are trying to bring it down.

If you look through this list you will find all assets declared by MP's for 2017. You will find Pravin Gordhan and Pieter Mulder have got generous shares in British American Tobacco. A search on any news site will show the links of the EFF and ANC members to various cigarette syndicates, legal and illegal. So if vaping increases, tobacco industry decreases they lose money out of their pocket. So why wouldn't they use their positions of power to influence the market in order to save their pockets? They do it on a daily basis by now.

And then why would the Tobacco Alcohol and Gambling Advisory, Advocacy and Action Group be against vaping? Same reason all Cancer groups are against it. They are a NPO and thus stand for grants from government and the Lottery. If less people smoke tobacco, less people get sick, and less money gets handed down. Just look at the resume of Peter Ucko, CEO of the TAG group. All business and administration qualifications. No medical qualifications. It's all about the money.

But like I said, its just conspiracy theories I have cooked up on my travels through the interwebs. I might be way off the mark, but there might just be some truth in my suspicions.
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Well done to you sir for finding this, to prove we both can't be wrong

Sent from my X30 using Tapatalk
 
RichJB said:
Which first world country are you talking about? And what are they promoting that they can make money on?
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This third world country claiming to be first world

Sent from my X30 using Tapatalk
 
If govt was in big tobacco's payroll, they'd be making the anti-smoking laws more lenient, not more stringent. Govt would be opposing public smoking/advertising bans, plain packaging, etc, not promoting it. Apart from that, the "big tobacco wants vaping banned" conspiracy theory fails the logic test in several areas:

1) PMI have spent $4.5bn setting up their smokeless products division, and other tobacco companies have spent heavily too. Big tobacco didn't get big by throwing that sort of money at a product line they want banned.

2) The bulk of pro-vaping research is funded by big tobacco. Supporting vaping's harm reduction claims, if they wanted vaping banned, would be an odd use of corporate funds. It would be like Coke funding research which concludes that Pepsi actually is better.

3) Five of the six biggest vaping brands in the US belong to big tobacco, JUUL is the only one that doesn't. Again, big tobacco didn't get big by trying to have its own products banned.

4) Tobacco companies bid aggressively for, and bought, Hon Lik's vaporiser patent. Again, paying big money for a patent when they intend the product to be banned doesn't make any sense at all. You only buy a patent when you think that the product has a lucrative future.

5) Big tobacco opposed the SanFran flavour ban, RJ Reynolds spent millions lobbying against it. If undermining vaping was the goal, big tobacco would have supported the ban. A flavour ban hurts vaping more than it hurts tobacco.

So despite the vaping community's claims that big tobacco is trying to have vaping banned, I'm just not seeing it. Nor am I seeing the allegations that govt is favouring big tobacco. Scott Gottlieb announced that he wants the FDA to reduce nicotine in cigarettes to non-addictive levels. That single announcement wiped billions off the tobacco company valuations overnight, a blow from which they still haven't fully recovered. If that is the level of service that big tobacco is getting from someone allegedly on their payroll, they should ask for a refund.
 
Dude I am not here to argue with you but if you can prove to me I am wrong then do it. Till then I will be right.
they bann tobacco related products.but they don't make it illegal.
now dagha is legal...why? they have seen the revenue in legalizing it and taking control of it to a certain extent. That means they don't have to burn a few bags of dagga on TV to show you they doing something about it and hiding the mother load and then selling it on the black market.
they do the same with guns.
you give in your gun was the rule a few years back then a.week later you see ten year olds with guns roaming the streets.
I can't also make you see what's going on.
you have to see around you to see what's happening.
And the sad part is those that have everything and think "it doesn't bother me because I have money and worldly things" will wake up when shit hits.the.fan. till then we that have to save what we earned while not being properly paid because there is always a cheaper option to Quality, have to live in the real world and face these facts everyday.
Take a day off out of the suburbs and come Vape with me.We'll become the best of friends after that.I show you things you never new existed.
 
they still use tobacco related products.
most nicotine is extracted from tobacco so they still will be sin taxed.
its when you extract from the tomato and other edible plants that you don't have to pay sin tax,bit how.many crops will you have to forfeit if tobacco contains more nicotine than a tomato plant.
and yes they are from the same genus.tomato and tobacco plants are related.,bit everybody does not know that either
 
I hope I have upset.a few vapers ,now forgive and forget and let's be friends again
 
Damn this argument is almost.like someone trying to persuade me Airwolf was real
 
Resistance said:
Damn this argument is almost.like someone trying to persuade me Airwolf was real
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But it was! Didn't the owner of Checkers or something bought the actual chopper back in the 80's and just repainted it?
 
Adephi said:
One thing I learned about @RichJB, he doesn't argue. He just have a very unique view on things and keeps an open and constructive debate. It can easily be seen as arguing but rather learn from him.
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Yes to some points I agree.
But one thing about Resistance is he doesn't want to be told he is wrong if the evidence is clear he is not.
How come tobacco is not deemed illegal..because of the revenue.
Thats why there were laws and fines put in place.
They thought they were going to gain more by implementing fines.
That is why they are forcing the vaping scene to fall under the same tobacco laws,there are already precedents in place for fines and stuff.
And if you still want to argue...why when you buy vape gear it states that it contains noctine???
Because they trying to force hardware under the same rule.
Some juices are labelled 0%nicotine bit the warning still states 'contains nicotine'
Contradictory ???
Its not the same so why force it to be the same.
If petrol and diesel were the same why don't you fill a petrol car with diesel?
Or even with natural gas?
As both of the other substances can and will power a car that looks exactly the same on the outside.
So tell me why you would fill your diesel car with petrol if it has the same purpose to power and propell your car forward???

It is still low what they doing even though some companies have there bread buttered both ways.
Who says it is not the smaller tobacco companies that is leading this issue,because they have more to loose?...if all the bigger companies are already gaining market share in the vaping and H.N.B scene
That is the way of the world though.isn't it?
Still come down to the same thing... I'm a vaper and proud of it. And I don't see why we should argue on this forum if the facts is a google away.
Then there is also the propaganda thing where they falsify info to make us think were wrong.
I also normally do not take the first article I read and believe it,that would not make me an Analyst.
 
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Adephi said:
One thing I learned about @RichJB, he doesn't argue. He just have a very unique view on things and keeps an open and constructive debate. It can easily be seen as arguing but rather learn from him.
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Sorry bro. I refuse to be taught wrong,bit you may do as you wish.you can learn all you want ,but at the end of day if you weren't taught right how right are you?
Sorry to offend you,but I can't stand for something I don't believe in.
 
Sin taxes on vaping is an easy win for govt. Vapers are a tiny and generally wealthy minority. The 97% of the population who don't vape have no problem with vapers shouldering more of the tax burden. Nicotine addiction is deemed a vice so mainstream society is fine with it being sin taxed.
 
kev mac said:
Just a short while ago I was grooving in the afterglow of a great New England sports night.
My life-long favorite Boston Red Sox had beaten the Huston Astros to even the ALCS at 1 game each.And on top of that my hometown heroes the New England Patriots pulled off another patented last minute victory.
Then the anti vapeing lobby harshed my mellow.
I saw for the first time a "Public service announcement in the form of a commercial misinforming me on how vapeing is worse than smoking because a hit of the vape pod is like smoking 20 cigarettes in terms of the amount of nicotine. This got my goat for sure.Then immediately following that another came on this time saying that Vapers are many many times more likely to switch to cigarettes. The anti smoking lobby once again playing fast and loose with the facts.I understand that we don't want minors to start vapeing as a fashion statement the same way I wouldn't want my children to drink or take drugs or smoke.But these are things as parents we must keep our youngsters away from.I as well as all my fellow forum mates know that vapeing saves lives and I resent the disservice and halve truths these special interest groups perpetrate.
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I checked this add on facebook yesterday!!! Was also disgusted.
 
RichJB said:
Sin taxes on vaping is an easy win for govt. Vapers are a tiny and generally wealthy minority. The 97% of the population who don't vape have no problem with vapers shouldering more of the tax burden. Nicotine addiction is deemed a vice so mainstream society is fine with it being sin taxed.
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Sin tax is easy yes. Easy if there is laws in place and with vaping there isn't right now,
But if it falls under smoking laws then its a done deal.
They can also file for its own laws but that will take longer and I don't think vapers will allow it that easy no matter their financial status or group staus
 
RichJB said:
Sin taxes on vaping is an easy win for govt. Vapers are a tiny and generally wealthy minority. The 97% of the population who don't vape have no problem with vapers shouldering more of the tax burden. Nicotine addiction is deemed a vice so mainstream society is fine with it being sin taxed.
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Wealthy? You don't say. Lol.
 
Puff the Magic Dragon said:
While the use of nic salts may be useful for giving up smoking (higher nic with less throat hit) they do open the door to criticism regarding high nic doses particularly in children who seem to favour them.

I really don't see the advantages of using nic at a very high level. The only result is doing a "Silver" which feels terrible.

Maybe someone can help me out here. Does the effect of "too high" a dose of nic salts feel the same as with normal nic ?
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I don't know a thing about nice salts,what's the deal with them?
 
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