A new low

[kev mac]

Hopefully the truth will overcome in the end @kev mac. Keep grooving mate.

I lay the blame for the current negatives squarely on the shoulders of nic salts @Puff the Magic Dragon.

I think the anti smoking lobby is right concerning youth vaping.Kids are using vapeing as a trend or fashion statement as youngsters are prone to do.Comming of age in the late 60s early 70s we were getting into more dangerous activities because our parents had no clue what was going on in the streets them.Luckily surviving those crazy days gave me insight that helped me as a parent.Schools and parents need to work together as vapeing is an adult activity and in my opinion should be seen as a smoking cessation tool.I blame the parents mainly if a kid takes up vapeing unless the kid goes to extreme measures to hide it .Vendors that sell to minors are irresponsible to say the least and are hurting their business and legitimate vapers like us.That said the anti smoking lobby should be honest in their endeavors and if they really cared about it would support vapeing as a cessation tool.

 

[kev mac]

Unfortunately you'll always have the odd person that blames cancer on vaping. I have such one and "D" is a smoker, yet won't see how much of a huge benefit vaping can be. I've explained everything and nothing can / will change her mindset.

I used the explanation that made the most sense is that vaping is harm reduction, not prevention and even if you quit both, you still have a chance of getting cancer, no matter what you do to prevent. It's inevitable. My uncle passed away 2 years ago from stomach cancer - never smoked or vaped in his entire life.

There you go, that's the harsh truth and many people don't like hearing the truth, unfortunately.

I also believe vapeing has improved my health and until my Cardiologist and G.P. advise against it I'll continue to vape.That I enjoy it so much is an added bonus!

 

[Resistance]

@kev mac I would rather have my child Vape then smoke.if it means I am a bad parent then it be so.If you see the kids on the streets nowadays you would understand what I mean.

 

[kev mac]

these tobacco and government bodies are losing revenue hence they sway towards anti- vaping, because they can't also promote smoking.
Ignore it and do what you do,if you can win over just one persons perception to vaping then you achieved something great...
helping your fellow man ,helping him/her save his life and saving yours along with it

Also it creates a revenue resource and job security .

 

[kev mac]

@kev mac I would rather have my child Vape then smoke.if it means I am a bad parent then it be so.If you see the kids on the streets nowadays you would understand what I mean.

I won't tell anyone how to raise a child but if my kid gets caught vapeing in school or abusing cell phone privileges for that matter there's he'll to pay back at home.In my home smoking, drinking or drugs and vapeing are all activities that can be indulged after he or she has reached the age of consent and no longer resides under the roof I provide.These are just my rules of course, the tail doesn't wag the dog.

 

[kev mac]

you have a point to a certain degree...
when they legalized the Maryjane they still did not have rules or should I say laws in place.
for that they use precedents in which case there aren't any.
so they could not even stop a minor from smoking weed.
and this happened in front of me. Then they said do it in your house.
there is nothing before vaping to make it legal or illegal and there's no tax precedent on vaping.
What they can do is tax he store that sells the vape products.
now if there were rules before this they could tax vaping.(mods,juice,parts etc)
the billions they loose on other illegal drugs they make up by selling it back on the black market when they raid.
They might even burn a few thousands worth of drugs on tv but not all and that to show us they are doing something.
Imagine this great first world country banning vaping?
no...,they would rather promote something they can make money on
,but what do I know???

We're getting into complex matters here.With due respect I have a hard time believing the government (at least here in the States) is reselling confiscated drugs.The impetuous for keeping them illegal is job security in law enforcement along with the revenues provided from government grants and task forces created to fight the sham known as the "War on drugs".
We can point also to the U.S. involvement a while back that created the Contra Affair a.k.a. guns for drugs.Remember Ollie North?Or the experiment 30 or so years ago in England where addicts in a problemed area in London were provided with a daily "fix" of heroin to great success .There's not enough space to go on though.So I'll end here by stealing your phrase, "but what do I know"?

 

[Resistance]

I won't tell anyone how to raise a child but if my kid gets caught vapeing in school or abusing cell phone privileges for that matter there's he'll to pay back at home.In my home smoking, drinking or drugs and vapeing are all activities that can be indulged after he or she has reached the age of consent and no longer resides under the roof I provide.These are just my rules of course, the tail doesn't wag the dog.

I fully agree with you,but you were once young and so was I.guess what...we both ended up smoking and as with all members that reads and agrees and dislikes and relates...show me someone that smoked that started after the tender age of 21.
We are parents but we can't always control our kids and look over them,maybe in a perfect world we could fully trust them(and I am not faulting anyone's children) but we don't see what goes on when our children leaves the house.

 

[Resistance]

True

We're getting into complex matters here.With due respect I have a hard time believing the government (at least here in the States) is reselling confiscated drugs.The impetuous for keeping them illegal is job security in law enforcement along with the revenues provided from government grants and task forces created to fight the sham known as the "War on drugs".
We can point also to the U.S. involvement a while back that created the Contra Affair a.k.a. guns for drugs.Remember Ollie North?Or the experiment 30 or so years ago in England where addicts in a problemed area in London were provided with a daily "fix" of heroin to great success .There's not enough space to go on though.So I'll end here by stealing your phrase, "but what do I know"?

You were there. I wasn't.
'But what do I know'

 

[Resistance]

We're getting into complex matters here.With due respect I have a hard time believing the government (at least here in the States) is reselling confiscated drugs.The impetuous for keeping them illegal is job security in law enforcement along with the revenues provided from government grants and task forces created to fight the sham known as the "War on drugs".
We can point also to the U.S. involvement a while back that created the Contra Affair a.k.a. guns for drugs.Remember Ollie North?Or the experiment 30 or so years ago in England where addicts in a problemed area in London were provided with a daily "fix" of heroin to great success .There's not enough space to go on though.So I'll end here by stealing your phrase, "but what do I know"?

Only one??? I Gave a decent read when I commented. About ten links I think
What did they gain and what is it worth today.

 

[Resistance]

I guess I am arguing with ignorance this week and its all the old guys.dislike me if you have to but one day you will say that guy...Resistance was right.you might be older but certainly not wiser.
Sorry you win I'm out of this argument.I was taught not to argue with golden oldies

 

[baksteen8168]

 

[Resistance]

Last time I checked the unemployment rate in ZA it said yes revenue,resource and job security for unemployed south africans.

Also it creates a revenue resource and job security .

 

[Resistance]

@baksteen move up please I'm on the side line now

 

[baksteen8168]

@baksteen move up please I'm on the side line now

@Resistance - Shhhh... I'm watching the drama unfold

Look, I hate to get involved in drama... But here's my 2c

Everyone here makes a valid point... @Resistance point borders on conspiracy theory, but it is a point to ponder none the less. The big picture here is that even when presented with facts, the government (be it US or SA) are still kicking against vaping. Whether their push back is because of financial or health reasons, we wont know. Personally, I think it has to do with them not getting a big enough slice of the vaping pie (financially). But I am not in politics so I wouldn't know the real reason why they are so against it.

What does this add mean to me? To me it means that more potential converts will shy away from vaping because the government told them on TV that its worse than smoking, and that to me is very sad.

I smoked for 16 years, dropped smoking and vaped exclusively for 3 years and eventually quit vaping too. A year later, due to stress and stupidity, I lit up a cigarette and started smoking again. Did that for 6 months and thankfully pod devices got me off the stinkies again. I tried my old go to setups, but it just didn't cut it. Now I'm vaping full time again on basically the same setups I used when vaping the first time. While I fully understand @Andre view that high nic pod systems are to blame, I also see their place in vaping as a smoking cessation device. (even though we are not supposed to refer to it as such)

Their negative adds and studies doesn't mean a thing to me, mainly because I know how my body felt when smoking and I am living proof that I feel a hell of a lot better when vaping. Is vaping healthy? Hell no, but it IS a hell of a lot healthier than smoking.

My 2c...

 

[kev mac]

I fully agree with you,but you were once young and so was I.guess what...we both ended up smoking and as with all members that reads and agrees and dislikes and relates...show me someone that smoked that started after the tender age of 21.
We are parents but we can't always control our kids and look over them,maybe in a perfect world we could fully trust them(and I am not faulting anyone's children) but we don't see what goes on when our children leaves the house.

I don't know your age but I'm in my 60s and when I grew up the world was a totally different place where smoking was practically a right of passage. I remember watching t.v. shows where doctors smoked in the operating room.Our parents at the time had no idea what we were doing because the radical change in the youth culture was beyond their comprehension .The world was changing like it never had before or since .Today in the information age it's all out there,computers, cell phones keep us in contact and up on things before they change.The problem as I see it is it is very common for children to grow up with one parent ,and how we as a society turned our children into their own center of the universe.Many,not all let kids raise themselves and then act shocked when the child gets in trouble.On YouTube I've seen videos of mothers fighting and bullying along side their daughters ,it's unbelievable .
So before this episode of Dr.Phil goes on too much longer I will reiterate these are only my views,I may disagree but I won't tell anyone how to raise a child. What I've done worked,it wasn't easy .I have made plenty of mistakes ,I'm just thankful and proud that none of them affected my child.P.S. I know many people personally that started smoking after 21.

 

[kev mac]

Last time I checked the unemployment rate in ZA it said yes revenue,resource and job security for unemployed south africans.

@Resistance ,I think you misunderstood my remark.What I mean is the people that make their living working for Anti Tobacco group welcome new things like vapeing because it's one more thing to rally against. And big tobacco and pharmaceutical companies welcome these groups into the fold cause it furthers their agenda .Thus the large donations to these groups and with said donations comes the added job security ,puts food on the table .Simple human nature.Whats disingenuous is vapers are against tobacco use just like they are, aren't they ignoring .the health issue?
And while I don't doubt that all confiscated drugs won't make it to the fire,I think that's more on a small percentage of bad cops.

 

[kev mac]

I guess I am arguing with ignorance this week and its all the old guys.dislike me if you have to but one day you will say that guy...Resistance was right.you might be older but certainly not wiser.
Sorry you win I'm out of this argument.I was taught not to argue with golden oldies

@Resistance I thought what we were having was a discourse,an exchange of views and ideas.
And while I certainly may have different ideas on things I don't "dislike you"for a difference of opinion ,that is a big part of what we do on this great forum that allows me the privilege of talking to interesting people from around the world .
However I do take offense to being called "ignorant "because my take on things differs from yours.
As far as who is older and wiser,the members reading these posts can make up their minds on that.
I'm out!

 

[RainstormZA]

I don't know your age but I'm in my 60s and when I grew up the world was a totally different place where smoking was practically a right of passage. I remember watching t.v. shows where doctors smoked in the operating room.Our parents at the time had no idea what we were doing because the radical change in the youth culture was beyond their comprehension .The world was changing like it never had before or since .Today in the information age it's all out there,computers, cell phones keep us in contact and up on things before they change.The problem as I see it is it is very common for children to grow up with one parent ,and how we as a society turned our children into their own center of the universe.Many,not all let kids raise themselves and then act shocked when the child gets in trouble.On YouTube I've seen videos of mothers fighting and bullying along side their daughters ,it's unbelievable .
So before this episode of Dr.Phil goes on too much longer I will reiterate these are only my views,I may disagree but I won't tell anyone how to raise a child. What I've done worked,it wasn't easy .I have made plenty of mistakes ,I'm just thankful and proud that none of them affected my child.P.S. I know many people personally that started smoking after 21.

I was one of them, I started at 21.

 

[Resistance]

I was out long ago.
You came with a post.we gave our views you turned around and argued with people that was on your side.
People don't do that, yet you think it OK.
That's what I call ignorance. You don't turn on someone on your side

@Resistance - Shhhh... I'm watching the drama unfold

Look, I hate to get involved in drama... But here's my 2c

Everyone here makes a valid point... @Resistance point borders on conspiracy theory, but it is a point to ponder none the less. The big picture here is that even when presented with facts, the government (be it US or SA) are still kicking against vaping. Whether their push back is because of financial or health reasons, we wont know. Personally, I think it has to do with them not getting a big enough slice of the vaping pie (financially). But I am not in politics so I wouldn't know the real reason why they are so against it.

What does this add mean to me? To me it means that more potential converts will shy away from vaping because the government told them on TV that its worse than smoking, and that to me is very sad.

I smoked for 16 years, dropped smoking and vaped exclusively for 3 years and eventually quit vaping too. A year later, due to stress and stupidity, I lit up a cigarette and started smoking again. Did that for 6 months and thankfully pod devices got me off the stinkies again. I tried my old go to setups, but it just didn't cut it. Now I'm vaping full time again on basically the same setups I used when vaping the first time. While I fully understand @Andre view that high nic pod systems are to blame, I also see their place in vaping as a smoking cessation device. (even though we are not supposed to refer to it as such)

Their negative adds and studies doesn't mean a thing to me, mainly because I know how my body felt when smoking and I am living proof that I feel a hell of a lot better when vaping. Is vaping healthy? Hell no, but it IS a hell of a lot healthier than smoking.

My 2c...

That was my view thanks for sharing your popcorn with me.
I feel he same and that is the reason I would rather catch my kids vaping than smoking.
It has nothing to do with how they are brought up,or how much they earn one day. It has to do with the trap we were caught up in and what it did to us while smoking and I would not want that for my kids. My Dad warned me about smoking and I smoked for over twenty years and from all that I decided if my kids want to vape I will allow it rather than having them stand on a random corner and smoke a stinkie

 

[RainstormZA]

I was out long ago.
You came with a post.we gave our views you turned around and argued with people that was on your side.
People don't do that, yet you think it OK.
That's what I call ignorance. You don't turn on someone on your side

That was my view thanks for sharing your popcorn with me.
I feel he same and that is the reason I would rather catch my kids vaping than smoking.
It has nothing to do with how they are brought up,or how much they earn one day. It has to do with the trap we were caught up in and what it did to us while smoking and I would not want that for my kids. My Dad warned me about smoking and I smoked for over twenty years and from all that I decided if my kids want to vape I will allow it rather than having them stand on a random corner and smoke a stinkie

Exactly. I much rather catch my kids vaping than smoking. Not that I have any but if there were teenagers, they're better off vaping than smoking.

 

[jm10]

Exactly. I much rather catch my kids vaping than smoking. Not that I have any but if there were teenagers, they're better off vaping than smoking.

Couldnt agree more. I was the worst little shit on earth, i always wonder how my parents put up with me not to mention my principle so i will discipline and teach my child right and wrong but I’m not going to be a hypocrite.


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[Resistance]

Couldnt agree more. I was the worst little shit on earth, i always wonder how my parents put up with me not to mention my principle so i will discipline and teach my child right and wrong but I’m not going to be a hypocrite.


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Yes bro! we can teach and direct our kids and steer them in the right path but we can't hold their hands forever.
And if you look at how many things you didn't do right even after you were told it was wrong. You alone can draw that conclusion on what you would rather have your kids do.
It has nothing to do with raising them right,that you can do throughout your lifetime,but it has to do with them making the right decision.
The supposedly gateway drug people fought against is now legal and I would still rather have my kids vape.!

 

[RichJB]

I would rather not have my kids (if I had them) abuse any chemical substances. The idea that they have to abuse something, that vaping is the least harmful one to pick, and that government must therefore promote vaping, is a bit absurd imo. Govt is against all substance abuse. They don't have to pick one to promote and thereby reject the rest.

 

[Resistance]

So now my next question is how do you as a government have anti-marijuana laws and suddenly make it legal ?.so they can try and control it and profit.
Then I will still allow my child to vape instead of him going outside and end up smoking legal marijuana and legal cigarettes.
And if it makes me a bad parent once again to point it out again. If any of my kids smoke marijuana just because its legal ,I will slap him with a vape mod

 

[jm10]

I would rather not have my kids (if I had them) abuse any chemical substances. The idea that they have to abuse something, that vaping is the least harmful one to pick, and that government must therefore promote vaping, is a bit absurd imo. Govt is against all substance abuse. They don't have to pick one to promote and thereby reject the rest.

Lol i cant take any sentence with seriousness when it has our government in it.

Govt is against all substance abuse yet they make the green stuff legal to please who exactly? Ca ching for some one.

Look i like to have a drink put ban the stuff and it will reduce road deaths in the country over night, question is why would they not ban drinking if its for the greater good?

Yeah our government


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