A new low

[RainstormZA]

So now my next question is how do you as a government have anti-marijuana laws and suddenly make it legal ?.so they can try and control it and profit.
Then I will still allow my child to vape instead of him going outside and end up smoking legal marijuana and legal cigarettes.
And if it makes me a bad parent once again to point it out again. If any of my kids smoke marijuana just because its legal ,I will slap him with a vape mod

Only one reason - medicinal use. I don't smoke it. I vape it, ONLY at night, to enable me to sleep properly. I have Raynaud's disease and it's horrible, but with that, it's helped me a lot to get my sleep back. I suffered a year of not being able to sleep a normal pattern due to severe itchiness.

I've had 3 weeks of good sleep and as much as my mom is not nice, she's seen how much of a difference it has made.

 

[RichJB]

Allowing substances makes the most sense from a governance point of view. It allows govt to regulate, monitor and control the product. People were going to smoke marijuana whether it was legal or not. Making it legal just allows more control and takes the industry out of the hands of criminals. If govt taxes it, all the better. Because it is then a voluntary tax unlike VAT or income tax. If you don't want to pay the tax on marijuana then exercise your democratic right not to smoke it. Sorted.

Banning drinking wouldn't be for the greater good. Alcohol-related crimes increased under Prohibition, they didn't reduce. Prohibition is also what gave the Mafia its start in the US. Without the profits from illicit and untaxed liquor, they wouldn't have been able to create the organised crime platform that they did. Banning something does not make it disappear. If it did, there wouldn't be any drug addicts or criminals.

 

[Adephi]

Lol i cant take any sentence with seriousness when it has our government in it.

Govt is against all substance abuse yet they make the green stuff legal to please who exactly? Ca ching for some one.

Look i like to have a drink put ban the stuff and it will reduce road deaths in the country over night, question is why would they not ban drinking if its for the greater good?

Yeah our government


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Just to throw the cat amongst the pigeons here...

The government did not legalize marijuana, the Constitutional Court and Higher courts did. They gave the government 24 months to put the appropriate laws into place.

 

[Resistance]

Just to throw the cat amongst the pigeons here...

The government did not legalize marijuana, the Constitutional Court and Higher courts did. They gave the government 24 months to put the appropriate laws into place.

Like really dude!!! Cowabunga!!! It figures... I've met a few judges and lawyers that smoke them muff.
Thays the guys we need to get to legalize vaping then.

 

[Resistance]

Still a government body just not the one everyone else thinks it is.they were chosen by the president and its still about revenue...

 

[Resistance]

@baksteen8168
I rest my case!

 

[RichJB]

Still a government body

In democracies, the judiciary is independent of the other branches of government. The government actually appealed against the original decision by the Western Cape High Court and the Constitutional Court over-ruled the state's objections.

The ConCourt doesn't take instruction from the legislature or the executive, it is guided only by the Constitution and the law. The ConCourt doesn't collect or disburse taxes so it's not about the money. That is the whole point of an independent judiciary in a democratic structure.

 

[baksteen8168]

@baksteen8168
I rest my case!

Can you post a link to that business insider article? I would like to read up on it.

Also, remember I said your point borders on conspiracy theory. Nowhere did I say that you were talking kak

 

[jm10]

Just to throw the cat amongst the pigeons here...

The government did not legalize marijuana, the Constitutional Court and Higher courts did. They gave the government 24 months to put the appropriate laws into place.

Yes you are correct, i just get really on the edge when people talk as if the government does anything right. Its a bloody joke.


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[Andre]

All your questions answered:
https://filtermag.org/2018/10/11/th...PMEv0hkvd3N9fW39vqp9zTXKdmZnFwZt4hpWlLEQhr_XA

 

[RichJB]

I totally agree with the article linked by @Andre. Prohibitionism is a proven failure. The US has cracked down heavily on drugs for decades. Today they have an opiate epidemic in which more American high school kids take illegal drugs than smoke legal cigarettes, and the latest figures show that three Americans are dying from drug OD for every two who die in gun violence. The most alarming aspect of that is that gun deaths have been stable, even dropping slightly in recent years. Drug OD fatalities are increasing in double-digit percentages every year.

So alcohol Prohibition failed and the War on Drugs has too. By contrast, the campaign against smoking has been a success. In 1950, half of adult Westerners smoked. Today that is down to 15% and reducing further every year. It is not coincidental that tobacco is the only one of the three products that never got banned. Keeping the product legal, but controlling its quality, price, distribution and consumption through legislation, regulation, taxation, peer pressure and public health messaging, has proven to be the best approach.

That doesn't mean that govt supports it, or is obliged to support it. Govt allowing alcohol, drugs and tobacco doesn't mean they promote these things. They can allow alcohol without encouraging people to drink, just like they can allow people to drive without encouraging them to commit hit-&-run incidents.

If the Minister wishes to condemn vaping just like smoking and urge people to not use nicotine in any form, that is fine. He is a health professional not a vaping industry sales rep, he has no obligation to promote addiction to anything. As long as he has the insight to understand that the problem can't be legislated away, and that allowing it offers far more control than trying to outlaw it, that is all I expect of him.

 

[baksteen8168]

I totally agree with the article linked by @Andre. Prohibitionism is a proven failure. The US has cracked down heavily on drugs for decades. Today they have an opiate epidemic in which more American high school kids take illegal drugs than smoke legal cigarettes, and the latest figures show that three Americans are dying from drug OD for every two who die in gun violence. The most alarming aspect of that is that gun deaths have been stable, even dropping slightly in recent years. Drug OD fatalities are increasing in double-digit percentages every year.

So alcohol Prohibition failed and the War on Drugs has too. By contrast, the campaign against smoking has been a success. In 1950, half of adult Westerners smoked. Today that is down to 15% and reducing further every year. It is not coincidental that tobacco is the only one of the three products that never got banned. Keeping the product legal, but controlling its quality, price, distribution and consumption through legislation, regulation, taxation, peer pressure and public health messaging, has proven to be the best approach.

That doesn't mean that govt supports it, or is obliged to support it. Govt allowing alcohol, drugs and tobacco doesn't mean they promote these things. They can allow alcohol without encouraging people to drink, just like they can allow people to drive without encouraging them to commit hit-&-run incidents.

If the Minister wishes to condemn vaping just like smoking and urge people to not use nicotine in any form, that is fine. He is a health professional not a vaping industry sales rep, he has no obligation to promote addiction to anything. As long as he has the insight to understand that the problem can't be legislated away, and that allowing it offers far more control than trying to outlaw it, that is all I expect of him.

Very well put response.

 

[Resistance]

Can you post a link to that business insider article? I would like to read up on it.

Also, remember I said your point borders on conspiracy theory. Nowhere did I say that you were talking kak

Baksteen you are my lawyer in this matter bro! Nowhere did I say you said I was talking k@k.will post that links for you

 

[Resistance]

I totally agree with the article linked by @Andre. Prohibitionism is a proven failure. The US has cracked down heavily on drugs for decades. Today they have an opiate epidemic in which more American high school kids take illegal drugs than smoke legal cigarettes, and the latest figures show that three Americans are dying from drug OD for every two who die in gun violence. The most alarming aspect of that is that gun deaths have been stable, even dropping slightly in recent years. Drug OD fatalities are increasing in double-digit percentages every year.

So alcohol Prohibition failed and the War on Drugs has too. By contrast, the campaign against smoking has been a success. In 1950, half of adult Westerners smoked. Today that is down to 15% and reducing further every year. It is not coincidental that tobacco is the only one of the three products that never got banned. Keeping the product legal, but controlling its quality, price, distribution and consumption through legislation, regulation, taxation, peer pressure and public health messaging, has proven to be the best approach.

That doesn't mean that govt supports it, or is obliged to support it. Govt allowing alcohol, drugs and tobacco doesn't mean they promote these things. They can allow alcohol without encouraging people to drink, just like they can allow people to drive without encouraging them to commit hit-&-run incidents.

If the Minister wishes to condemn vaping just like smoking and urge people to not use nicotine in any form, that is fine. He is a health professional not a vaping industry sales rep, he has no obligation to promote addiction to anything. As long as he has the insight to understand that the problem can't be legislated away, and that allowing it offers far more control than trying to outlaw it, that is all I expect of him.

So illegal guns should be made legal too???
It will cause less people to act like cowboys and shoot up the place.
Also when is America going to tell trump to get out of Palestine.?
I mean after all its innocent people dying while rich kids are overdosing in American schools...
Seeing that you brought it up...!

 

[Resistance]

https://www.businessinsider.co.za/s...alised-cannabis-weed-dagga-consumption-2018-9
@baksteen8168

 

[RichJB]

So illegal guns should be made legal too???

Guns are already legal.

Also when is America going to tell trump to get out of Palestine.?

Politics doesn't really work that way. "America" (whoever that is) doesn't tell the President what to do. Instead, the Presidential candidates present their policies to the people, who vote for them based on that. Whoever wins therefore receives a mandate to enact their policies. If the people decide they don't like those policies, they can vote for a different candidate the next time. But they can't tell the President what to do. He is expected to be a leader, not a follower.

 

[Resistance]

Guns are already legal.



Politics doesn't really work that way. "America" (whoever that is) doesn't tell the President what to do. Instead, the Presidential candidates present their policies to the people, who vote for them based on that. Whoever wins therefore receives a mandate to enact their policies. If the people decide they don't like those policies, they can vote for a different candidate the next time. But they can't tell the President what to do. He is expected to be a leader, not a follower.

And it seem like you will follow any stupid leader.
Thats where we differ I am not a mule, and iI will never follow idiots. I will also never hurts or injure or affect any person for monetary gain,social gain or political gain and I will also never follow any party or structure which has those views. And if you read your posts you will notice how many times you and the people that agreed with you contradicted your posts and instead try to find more minor technicalities to point out thinking it increases your chances in getting likes in this debative argument.

 

[RainstormZA]

Guns are already legal.

And there lies the problem, too many criminals getting them.

South Africa has gone down a deep dark hole with violent crime increasing.

 

[RichJB]

And it seem like you will follow any stupid leader.

No, I merely respect and abide by democratic processes. If the majority elect a leader who enacts a policy that the majority agrees with, then I accept it even if I don't agree with that policy. That doesn't prevent me from speaking out against that policy or making representation to govt about it. But that, too, entails processes that must be adhered to and respected.

Thats where we differ I am not a mule, and iI will never follow idiots.

Neither will I, which is why it's irrelevant to me what our Minister thinks of vaping. I am capable of doing my own research and making up my own mind, I don't need the Minister to do it for me. But then, I am not the one demanding that govt must promote vaping. Considering that vapers have such a low opinion of govt's intelligence, it surprises me that govt's endorsement is so important to them. Do you really want stupid people promoting your hobby and lifestyle? Or is it that, if govt started promoting vaping, they suddenly wouldn't be stupid anymore and would magically transform into the smartest guys in the room?

I will also never hurts or injure or affect any person for monetary gain,social gain or political gain and I will also never follow any party or structure which has those views.

You have that luxury because you are not a policy decision-maker. Politicians must make these decisions and, in many cases, there is no option that doesn't involve harm. If the govt doesn't build more power stations, there are power cuts, industry suffers and jobs are lost. If they do build more power stations, pollution increases.

Guns is another area where there is no harm-free solution. If govt bans guns, law-abiding civilians are left defenceless. If they do allow guns, criminals can get them. So govt can't make a choice in which nobody is harmed. Whatever policy they enact, someone is going to suffer.

Naturally, govt face daily allegations that they murder people for financial gain. When they proposed the new air quality standards, industry walked out claiming that govt was in the pocket of lunatic fringe greens who want to destroy the economy and ensure that no South Africans have jobs and all starve to death. And then civil society walked out, claiming that govt was in the pocket of industrial oligarchs who want to poison our children and dance on their graves.

So no, the vaping community alleging that govt is in big tobacco's pocket and wants all South Africans to smoke and die of cancer is not going to elicit any response or influence govt policy. They face these sort of allegations daily and from every industrial sector. So they just roll their eyes and move on.

 

[Resistance]

Y

No, I merely respect and abide by democratic processes. If the majority elect a leader who enacts a policy that the majority agrees with, then I accept it even if I don't agree with that policy. That doesn't prevent me from speaking out against that policy or making representation to govt about it. But that, too, entails processes that must be adhered to and respected.



Neither will I, which is why it's irrelevant to me what our Minister thinks of vaping. I am capable of doing my own research and making up my own mind, I don't need the Minister to do it for me. But then, I am not the one demanding that govt must promote vaping. Considering that vapers have such a low opinion of govt's intelligence, it surprises me that govt's endorsement is so important to them. Do you really want stupid people promoting your hobby and lifestyle? Or is it that, if govt started promoting vaping, they suddenly wouldn't be stupid anymore and would magically transform into the smartest guys in the room?



You have that luxury because you are not a policy decision-maker. Politicians must make these decisions and, in many cases, there is no option that doesn't involve harm. If the govt doesn't build more power stations, there are power cuts, industry suffers and jobs are lost. If they do build more power stations, pollution increases.

Guns is another area where there is no harm-free solution. If govt bans guns, law-abiding civilians are left defenceless. If they do allow guns, criminals can get them. So govt can't make a choice in which nobody is harmed. Whatever policy they enact, someone is going to suffer.

Naturally, govt face daily allegations that they murder people for financial gain. When they proposed the new air quality standards, industry walked out claiming that govt was in the pocket of lunatic fringe greens who want to destroy the economy and ensure that no South Africans have jobs and all starve to death. And then civil society walked out, claiming that govt was in the pocket of industrial oligarchs who want to poison our children and dance on their graves.

So no, the vaping community alleging that govt is in big tobacco's pocket and wants all South Africans to smoke and die of cancer is not going to elicit any response or influence govt policy. They face these sort of allegations daily and from every industrial sector. So they just roll their eyes and move on.

You have that luxury too.or are you a politition or a capitalist which borders on the same thing. Screw humanity and profit

 

[Resistance]

Y

No, I merely respect and abide by democratic processes. If the majority elect a leader who enacts a policy that the majority agrees with, then I accept it even if I don't agree with that policy. That doesn't prevent me from speaking out against that policy or making representation to govt about it. But that, too, entails processes that must be adhered to and respected.



Neither will I, which is why it's irrelevant to me what our Minister thinks of vaping. I am capable of doing my own research and making up my own mind, I don't need the Minister to do it for me. But then, I am not the one demanding that govt must promote vaping. Considering that vapers have such a low opinion of govt's intelligence, it surprises me that govt's endorsement is so important to them. Do you really want stupid people promoting your hobby and lifestyle? Or is it that, if govt started promoting vaping, they suddenly wouldn't be stupid anymore and would magically transform into the smartest guys in the room?



You have that luxury because you are not a policy decision-maker. Politicians must make these decisions and, in many cases, there is no option that doesn't involve harm. If the govt doesn't build more power stations, there are power cuts, industry suffers and jobs are lost. If they do build more power stations, pollution increases.

Guns is another area where there is no harm-free solution. If govt bans guns, law-abiding civilians are left defenceless. If they do allow guns, criminals can get them. So govt can't make a choice in which nobody is harmed. Whatever policy they enact, someone is going to suffer.

Naturally, govt face daily allegations that they murder people for financial gain. When they proposed the new air quality standards, industry walked out claiming that govt was in the pocket of lunatic fringe greens who want to destroy the economy and ensure that no South Africans have jobs and all starve to death. And then civil society walked out, claiming that govt was in the pocket of industrial oligarchs who want to poison our children and dance on their graves.

So no, the vaping community alleging that govt is in big tobacco's pocket and wants all South Africans to smoke and die of cancer is not going to elicit any response or influence govt policy. They face these sort of allegations daily and from every industrial sector. So they just roll their eyes and move on.

Yes dont you know the gupta's???

 

[Resistance]

Like i said u r contradicting urself. Ignorance is bliss

 

[RichJB]

Y

You have that luxury too.or are you a politition or a capitalist which borders on the same thing. Screw humanity and profit

Profit is good. Without it, we wouldn't be able to buy vape gear. Or food, even. I don't mind the rat race, I just wish there was more cheese.

Yes dont you know the gupta's???

Not personally, no. Although I'm unclear what the Guptas have to do with anything I've posted.

 

[Raindance]

Profit is good. Without it, we wouldn't be able to buy vape gear. Or food, even. I don't mind the rat race, I just wish there was more cheese.

The core purpose of any business is to make profit. Even true for non profit organisations (where profits are only recorded and distributed differently) as “no profit = no business”.
In turn “no business = no jobs”.
One does not have to like or agree with this, but fact is fact and I do not particularly like gravity either but no use claiming it does not exist.

If i remember correctly my opening phraze was coined by Juran in the early 20th century.

Regards

 

[Resistance]

Just a short while ago I was grooving in the afterglow of a great New England sports night.
My life-long favorite Boston Red Sox had beaten the Huston Astros to even the ALCS at 1 game each.And on top of that my hometown heroes the New England Patriots pulled off another patented last minute victory.
Then the anti vapeing lobby harshed my mellow.
I saw for the first time a "Public service announcement in the form of a commercial misinforming me on how vapeing is worse than smoking because a hit of the vape pod is like smoking 20 cigarettes in terms of the amount of nicotine. This got my goat for sure.Then immediately following that another came on this time saying that Vapers are many many times more likely to switch to cigarettes. The anti smoking lobby once again playing fast and loose with the facts.I understand that we don't want minors to start vapeing as a fashion statement the same way I wouldn't want my children to drink or take drugs or smoke.But these are things as parents we must keep our youngsters away from.I as well as all my fellow forum mates know that vapeing saves lives and I resent the disservice and halve truths these special interest groups perpetrate.

I guess what they were doing was right then...making sure they profit.
Then why complain in the first place???
Please stick to the point this time...