A new low

[kev mac]

Just a short while ago I was grooving in the afterglow of a great New England sports night.
My life-long favorite Boston Red Sox had beaten the Huston Astros to even the ALCS at 1 game each.And on top of that my hometown heroes the New England Patriots pulled off another patented last minute victory.
Then the anti vapeing lobby harshed my mellow.
I saw for the first time a "Public service announcement in the form of a commercial misinforming me on how vapeing is worse than smoking because a hit of the vape pod is like smoking 20 cigarettes in terms of the amount of nicotine. This got my goat for sure.Then immediately following that another came on this time saying that Vapers are many many times more likely to switch to cigarettes. The anti smoking lobby once again playing fast and loose with the facts.I understand that we don't want minors to start vapeing as a fashion statement the same way I wouldn't want my children to drink or take drugs or smoke.But these are things as parents we must keep our youngsters away from.I as well as all my fellow forum mates know that vapeing saves lives and I resent the disservice and halve truths these special interest groups perpetrate.

 

[baksteen8168]

Just a short while ago I was grooving in the afterglow of a great New England sports night.
My life-long favorite Boston Red Sox had beaten the Huston Astros to even the ALCS at 1 game each.And on top of that my hometown heroes the New England Patriots pulled off another patented last minute victory.
Then the anti vapeing lobby harshed my mellow.
I saw for the first time a "Public service announcement in the form of a commercial misinforming me on how vapeing is worse than smoking because a hit of the vape pod is like smoking 20 cigarettes in terms of the amount of nicotine. This got my goat for sure.Then immediately following that another came on this time saying that Vapers are many many times more likely to switch to cigarettes. The anti smoking lobby once again playing fast and loose with the facts.I understand that we don't want minors to start vapeing as a fashion statement the same way I wouldn't want my children to drink or take drugs or smoke.But these are things as parents we must keep our youngsters away from.I as well as all my fellow forum mates know that vapeing saves lives and I resent the disservice and halve truths these special interest groups perpetrate.

One hit off a pod is like smoking 20 cigarettes??? Well... Then I say I am saving a hell of a lot of money. Thanks Vapeing!

What the hell are these idiots smoking? Or maybe they took too many puffs of their 20 cigarettes per hit pods...

 

[Puff the Magic Dragon]

While the use of nic salts may be useful for giving up smoking (higher nic with less throat hit) they do open the door to criticism regarding high nic doses particularly in children who seem to favour them.

I really don't see the advantages of using nic at a very high level. The only result is doing a "Silver" which feels terrible.

Maybe someone can help me out here. Does the effect of "too high" a dose of nic salts feel the same as with normal nic ?

 

[baksteen8168]

While the use of nic salts may be useful for giving up smoking (higher nic with less throat hit) they do open the door to criticism regarding high nic doses particularly in children who seem to favour them.

I really don't see the advantages of using nic at a very high level. The only result is doing a "Silver" which feels terrible.

Maybe someone can help me out here. Does the effect of "too high" a dose of nic salts feel the same as with normal nic ?

When I overdid the nic salts (being a noob to pods at the time) it felt the same as doing a "Silver". For me at least it wasn't any different to overdoing it with normal devices. I must also add that I only used it to kick the stinky habit. My pod devices now mainly sit unused.

 

[Andre]

Hopefully the truth will overcome in the end @kev mac. Keep grooving mate.

I lay the blame for the current negatives squarely on the shoulders of nic salts @Puff the Magic Dragon.

 

[Raindance]

I lay the blame for the current negatives squarely on the shoulders of nic salts @Puff the Magic Dragon.

And of-course the fact that certain US states simply can not afford less people dying from smoking related diseases. Not limited to the US however, our own country relies heavily on income from "sin" tax on tobacco products.

Regards

 

[Jag2018]

Hi there.
These so called "public service" adverts should be called into question. Remember days when cigarette adverts told us that smoking was the "international passport to smoking pleasure"?

E.g. If a cell network company claims to be the fastest, then one could report them to the advertising complaints commission who could then force the company to prove their statement. If they can't then they would be obligated to remove the advert or maybe make an apology for deceiving the public or even be fined. This doesn't always occur in S.A but it has happened in the past where sufficient political/financial will had existed.

The problem exists because people still believe that what they see/hear on TV is the truth.
IMO, TV is the largest, longest living, most effective and efficient means of propaganda. Everything that one sees or hears on TV should be taken with a pinch the proverbial. Everything.

Besides, only recently, mostly due the billion dollar industry that vaping has turned into, do we see numerous studies being conducted into the effects of vaping and the toxicity levels of e-liquids, sometimes by the big guns themselves i.e. BAT and Philip Morris.

Remember the state of affairs of world we live in. Marijuana is legal, cigarettes are legal, but vaping is still under scrutiny.
MJ will be regulated and taxed soon. Cigarettes are taxed to hell and gone already. All that's needed is a way to tax vaping, and vaping will no longer be a health issue.

I can happily state that vaping full time and getting off cigarettes has helped save my life, quite literally.
I used to be a 3 pack a day smoker. If 3 draws of my Twisp satisfied my daily smoking needs, I would have noticed. Hahahahah!

All the best.
A.J

 

[RainstormZA]

Hi there.
These so called "public service" adverts should be called into question. Remember days when cigarette adverts told us that smoking was the "international passport to smoking pleasure"?

E.g. If a cell network company claims to be the fastest, then one could report them to the advertising complaints commission who could then force the company to prove their statement. If they can't then they would be obligated to remove the advert or maybe make an apology for deceiving the public or even be fined. This doesn't always occur in S.A but it has happened in the past where sufficient political/financial will had existed.

The problem exists because people still believe that what they see/hear on TV is the truth.
IMO, TV is the largest, longest living, most effective and efficient means of propaganda. Everything that one sees or hears on TV should be taken with a pinch the proverbial. Everything.

Besides, only recently, mostly due the billion dollar industry that vaping has turned into, do we see numerous studies being conducted into the effects of vaping and the toxicity levels of e-liquids, sometimes by the big guns themselves i.e. BAT and Philip Morris.

Remember the state of affairs of world we live in. Marijuana is legal, cigarettes are legal, but vaping is still under scrutiny.
MJ will be regulated and taxed soon. Cigarettes are taxed to hell and gone already. All that's needed is a way to tax vaping, and vaping will no longer be a health issue.

I can happily state that vaping full time and getting off cigarettes has helped save my life, quite literally.
I used to be a 3 pack a day smoker. If 3 draws of my Twisp satisfied my daily smoking needs, I would have noticed. Hahahahah!

All the best.
A.J

Unfortunately you'll always have the odd person that blames cancer on vaping. I have such one and "D" is a smoker, yet won't see how much of a huge benefit vaping can be. I've explained everything and nothing can / will change her mindset.

I used the explanation that made the most sense is that vaping is harm reduction, not prevention and even if you quit both, you still have a chance of getting cancer, no matter what you do to prevent. It's inevitable. My uncle passed away 2 years ago from stomach cancer - never smoked or vaped in his entire life.

There you go, that's the harsh truth and many people don't like hearing the truth, unfortunately.

 

[RichJB]

Besides, only recently, mostly due the billion dollar industry that vaping has turned into, do we see numerous studies being conducted into the effects of vaping and the toxicity levels of e-liquids, sometimes by the big guns themselves i.e. BAT and Philip Morris.

Big tobacco funds most of the studies on vaping, and every tobacco-funded study I've seen on vaping has been hugely positive. It's their own product and future, they are not likely to discredit it. This is why there is such skepticism around vaping research from bodies like the WHO. Big tobacco doesn't have the best record in scientific research. Still, it's heartening that their research results are being corroborated by neutral bodies like the RCP and PHE.

 

[Jag2018]

Unfortunately you'll always have the odd person that blames cancer on vaping. I have such one and "D" is a smoker, yet won't see how much of a huge benefit vaping can be. I've explained everything and nothing can / will change her mindset.

I used the explanation that made the most sense is that vaping is harm reduction, not prevention and even if you quit both, you still have a chance of getting cancer, no matter what you do to prevent. It's inevitable. My uncle passed away 2 years ago from stomach cancer - never smoked or vaped in his entire life.

There you go, that's the harsh truth and many people don't like hearing the truth, unfortunately.

You know, I usually reserve the explanations about the benefits of vaping for only the people that I truly care about and even then, some of these people are just too set in their ways to try something different, even if they do understand that it is actually healthier or less harmful.

I remember times before vaping was invented, when friends and family would try to explain to me that I was killing myself with cigarettes.
I listened, I understood, I loved them for caring, but I didn't take any steps to change my ways.

Just BTW, when I eventually quit smoking and started vaping, the most memorable thing I experienced after 2 days or so was the heightened ability to smell things properly again. I felt like I had gained a super power. Hehehehehe! I was missing out on an entire world of scents and this world was amazing to me.

 

[Faiyaz Cheulkar]

While the use of nic salts may be useful for giving up smoking (higher nic with less throat hit) they do open the door to criticism regarding high nic doses particularly in children who seem to favour them.

I really don't see the advantages of using nic at a very high level. The only result is doing a "Silver" which feels terrible.

Maybe someone can help me out here. Does the effect of "too high" a dose of nic salts feel the same as with normal nic ?

I am a regular nic salt user, only time I felt a little high was when I dripped it on a RDA. Otherwise nic salts on a MTL device is the same as any other vaping device. Nic salts is particularly useful if u can't afford doing 10-20 ml a day and u want a bottle of juice to last for more than a month, or if you are like me and like to keep a low profile when vaping in public.

 

[Jag2018]

Big tobacco funds most of the studies on vaping, and every tobacco-funded study I've seen on vaping has been hugely positive. It's their own product and future, they are not likely to discredit it. This is why there is such skepticism around vaping research from bodies like the WHO. Big tobacco doesn't have the best record in scientific research. Still, it's heartening that their research results are being corroborated by neutral bodies like the RCP and PHE.

I always treat with skepticism the types of research that attempts to pit smoking against vaping hence drawing conclusions about what is good and bad, and lean more toward scientific papers that tabulate unbiased observations about mean toxicity, peaks, terminals, markers, chemical changes, known physiological effects and illness of chemical compounds and not necessarily vaping and nicotine.

 

[baksteen8168]

Just BTW, when I eventually quit smoking and started vaping, the most memorable thing I experienced after 2 days or so was the heightened ability to smell things properly again. I felt like I had gained a super power. Hehehehehe! I was missing out on an entire world of scents and this world was amazing to me.

Don't forget the other added benefit of everything tasting better.

 

[Jag2018]

Don't forget the other added benefit of everything tasting better.

Hahahaha!
I was going to mention that as well but I tried to keep the reply brief.
Taste and smell.
But sometimes that was not a good thing. hehe!
E.g. ...I love horses and ride often. Try a stable on a hot day just after getting your sense of taste and smell back.

 

[RainstormZA]

You know, I usually reserve the explanations about the benefits of vaping for only the people that I truly care about and even then, some of these people are just too set in their ways to try something different, even if they do understand that it is actually healthier or less harmful.

I remember times before vaping was invented, when friends and family would try to explain to me that I was killing myself with cigarettes.
I listened, I understood, I loved them for caring, but I didn't take any steps to change my ways.

Just BTW, when I eventually quit smoking and started vaping, the most memorable thing I experienced after 2 days or so was the heightened ability to smell things properly again. I felt like I had gained a super power. Hehehehehe! I was missing out on an entire world of scents and this world was amazing to me.

Indeed, my friend told me I was crazy when I smelled stuff she couldn't. I was like wtf, because she kinda tried to insult me by saying it was all in my head.

Mymom is actually very supportive, the other day I apologised for coming with her smelling like an ashtray bec of the friend and her mom who are smokers. She said now we know what it smells like and why it doesn't smell great.

My mom would prefer me to vape instead of smoking bec my Vape smells great and I don't smell like an ashtray. She's also seen a marked improvement in my health and my blood pressure is stable. She loves my strawberry juice mix, lemon cream custard mix but hadn't smelled the others yet. Plus bonus is i save 1/4 of costs compared to when I was smoking.

 

[RainstormZA]

Hahahaha!
I was going to mention that as well but I tried to keep the reply brief.
Taste and smell.
But sometimes that was not a good thing. hehe!
E.g. ...I love horses and ride often. Try a stable on a hot day just after getting your sense of taste and smell back.

Bwhahahahaha horses smell way better than cows. And I rather go muck out an horse stable than clean a dairy.

 

[Jag2018]

Indeed, my friend told me I was crazy when I smelled stuff she couldn't. I was like wtf, because she kinda tried to insult me by saying it was all in my head.

Mymom is actually very supportive, the other day I apologised for coming with her smelling like an ashtray bec of the friend and her mom who are smokers. She said now we know what it smells like and why it doesn't smell great.

My mom would prefer me to vape instead of smoking bec my Vape smells great and I don't smell like an ashtray. She's also seen a marked improvement in my health and my blood pressure is stable. She loves my strawberry juice mix, lemon cream custard mix but hadn't smelled the others yet. Plus bonus is i save 1/4 of costs compared to when I was smoking.

You know!
Now you're reminding me of things. Hahaha!

I also went around apologizing to my family and friends for making them tolerate the stink of my cigarettes for 19 years.
Nowadays, the smell of cigarettes make me feel nauseated. I have nothing against smokers. I just cannot believe that I smelled like that for such a long time and didn't see a problem with it.

Speaking of health, I was always very healthy, even while I smoked.
I rode the Argus 3 times and cycle approximately 100km a weekend and 80km a day, 3 times a week, on the Wattbike.
When I quit smoking, I almost could not believe how my performance improved. I had to tell myself to slow down before I injure myself. hahahah!

My Mom thinks that my vapour smells like incense sticks. hehe.

My cigarette bill used to be R3850 per month. I know, stupid stupid stupid.
I mix my own liquids now, so vaping costs me about R1000 every 3 months or so. Now that's a saving!

 

[Jag2018]

Bwhahahahaha horses smell way better than cows. And I rather go muck out an horse stable than clean a dairy.

Agh!
I will take your word for it. Hahahahaha!

 

[RichJB]

I always treat with skepticism the types of research that attempts to pit smoking against vaping hence drawing conclusions about what is good and bad, and lean more toward scientific papers that tabulate unbiased observations about mean toxicity, peaks, terminals, markers, chemical changes, known physiological effects and illness of chemical compounds and not necessarily vaping and nicotine.

My concern is that I don't know when they're being unbiased as I'm not part of the research team. So I'm wary of all research where there is a financial motive. Which basically comes down to all research, period. There is a financial motive to both discredit and to promote vaping, so the two sides cancel each other out. That leaves us with the "scientific consensus" as perhaps the most accurate guide. Atm that is looking promising for vaping and hopefully it turns out to be accurate.

 

[RainstormZA]

Agh!
I will take your word for it. Hahahahaha!

I'll post you a fresh cow patty. You'll probably get sick after smelling it. Lol.

 

[Jag2018]

My concern is that I don't know when they're being unbiased as I'm not part of the research team. So I'm wary of all research where there is a financial motive. Which basically comes down to all research, period. There is a financial motive to both discredit and to promote vaping, so the two sides cancel each other out. That leaves us with the "scientific consensus" as perhaps the most accurate guide. Atm that is looking promising for vaping and hopefully it turns out to be accurate.

If you are scientifically inclined I can refer you to a few journals/text books that do not deal with vaping and therefore have no bias.

It is untrue that all research is financially motivated.

Many of the texts are old and deal specifically with temporal change in chemical compounds due to temperature and other stressors and were done as forms for general study of elements and compounds and as dissertations for PhD studies and use in large industry and SHEQ processes. There are many more recent papers as well that do not deal with vaping, but do deal with chemicals that we vapers consume.

My views of vaping are mainly based on how the human body copes with the alderhyde coumpounds, especially formalderhyde compounds, that are created when GLY aka VG, and PG are subjected to heat.

Research on diacetyl, for e.g. is widely known nowadays, and that research was done long before vaping was even an idea.

 

[Resistance]

these tobacco and government bodies are losing revenue hence they sway towards anti- vaping, because they can't also promote smoking.
Ignore it and do what you do,if you can win over just one persons perception to vaping then you achieved something great...
helping your fellow man ,helping him/her save his life and saving yours along with it

 

[Jag2018]

these tobacco and government bodies are losing revenue hence they sway towards anti- vaping, because they can't also promote smoking.
Ignore it and do what you do,if you can win over just one persons perception to vaping then you achieved something great...
helping your fellow man ,helping him/her save his life and saving yours along with it

Well said.

 

[Jag2018]

I'll post you a fresh cow patty. You'll probably get sick after smelling it. Lol.

Oh my lawd!
Please don't, I promise I believe you. Hahahahah!

 

[RichJB]

these tobacco and government bodies are losing revenue hence they sway towards anti- vaping

If it was about lost revenue, govts would have unbanned drugs long ago. How much money are they losing every year by drug street corner cash sales going untaxed? It must be trillions of dollars globally. Keeping a product legal and taxing it is far more profitable than attempting to ban it. If govt was worried about losing tobacco revenue to vaping, they wouldn't ban vaping. They'd tax it. And are already doing so in places like Portugal, Italy, Philadelphia, and others.