Batteries for newbies

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Jean claude Vaaldamme

Jean claude Vaaldamme

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Sorry but Im struggling with the search function. Just a few questions of things I read the last few days.

1 Battery safety. Ok I understand there is dangers etc. But if I drive my car out the driveway there is dangers, if I take a plane I take a calculated risk. So has anyone actually had a battery blown up/ caught fire? Specially while charging? Not I saw a whatsapp video or a friend I know had it happen to him.
Im trying to be carefull, but things like charging batteries overnight while Im asleep, I would like to calculate what risk Im taking

2 whats the reason for battery wraps? Just to look cool? Does people realy take out their batteries and show to someone? Seeing that everyone is scared of the batteries I would think you would handle them with care and not drop them, so its should not be for that reason? Or is it just extra precaution?

3 when I work my car stands mostly oytside in the sun. Is it dangerous to keep my device in hot car, as I dont want to carry it with me the whole time while working?

4 if 3 is not to much of a problem, will batteries get damaged if not used regulary. Im thinking of buying a spare set just to lie somewhere in car for an emergency. Maybe cheap china mall batteries incase they sit there for a few months without use and get damage
 
No expert on batteries, but here goes:

1. People tend to err on the safe side as accidents do happen and electronics do give up the ghost. If a charger goes faulty, the charge circuitry can potentially generate a high voltage across the batteries in the charge circuit, or perhaps a short, neither of which would be a good thing or have a happy ending.
I do leave mine in the charger overnight, but that is a calculated risk that I am prepared to take. The best is to put the charger on a non-flammable surface and away from other volatile substances like you liquor cabinet, curtains, sleeping cats and dogs etc., just in case Murphy pops around.

2. The 'body' of the battery is in fact the negative terminal as well. If you place two naked batteries next to one another in most mods, closing the battery door with their casings touching will immediatey cause a short circuit on one of the batteries as they are usually inserted in different directions.
Some mods have a metal body, and if the metal body is not connected to the negative, having the battery touching the body could ruin the device and potentially short-circuit the battery.
Best and safest option is to NOT use batteries that have a damaged wrap. Wraps are cheap and easy to replace. Far cheaper and easier than eyes, teeth or other body parts.

3. Handle batteries like toddlers. Rather do not leave them in cars, especially cars parked in the sun. Extreme heat is not good for batteries in general, and it could cause a spurious vent as well if they overheat. The vent is a chemical reaction, generating more heat that affects other batteries in the proximity. If only one vents in a 3 battery mod, chances are good that the other 2 could vent as well. Remember that quite a few of the exploding or burning Lipo / L-Ion cases were due to overheating batteries in devices. Others were due to metal shavings from the manufacturing process that eventually ruptured the insulating layers during normal use cycles of heating up and cooling down. As batteries age, the insulation layers might actually fatigue and break down or wear away, increasing the risk of an internal short when eposed to extreme temperatures. Just because they survived a 200 day stint in the sun, does not mean they they would automatically survive another 200 days without burning down your car.
Unlike some wines or women, batteries do not get better with age.
Also keep in mind that tanks dump juice far easier in hot conditions when the VG becomes more runny. Juice dumps on a mod can ruin a bit more than just the mod.

4. Not used regularly as in once a week or two weeks is ok. If they are to be left for extended periods, the best is likely to leave them in a 1/3 or low charged state, in a cool place. Cheap China Mall batteries are the last thing I would use in my mod, let alone leave in my car. I need the thing to take me places, not burn out in a parking lot or in my driveway.

I know we all sound like 'Doom Prophets', but battery safety is not to be ignored, especially with the highly volatile Lithium cells we use for vaping.
Some of the chemical compositions in Lithium Ion cells are less prone to chemical fires, but others can be highly volatile.

Better to be safe than sorry.
 
Kuhlkatz said:
No expert on batteries, but here goes:

1. People tend to err on the safe side as accidents do happen and electronics do give up the ghost. If a charger goes faulty, the charge circuitry can potentially generate a high voltage across the batteries in the charge circuit, or perhaps a short, neither of which would be a good thing or have a happy ending.
I do leave mine in the charger overnight, but that is a calculated risk that I am prepared to take. The best is to put the charger on a non-flammable surface and away from other volatile substances like you liquor cabinet, curtains, sleeping cats and dogs etc., just in case Murphy pops around.

2. The 'body' of the battery is in fact the negative terminal as well. If you place two naked batteries next to one another in most mods, closing the battery door with their casings touching will immediatey cause a short circuit on one of the batteries as they are usually inserted in different directions.
Some mods have a metal body, and if the metal body is not connected to the negative, having the battery touching the body could ruin the device and potentially short-circuit the battery.
Best and safest option is to NOT use batteries that have a damaged wrap. Wraps are cheap and easy to replace. Far cheaper and easier than eyes, teeth or other body parts.

3. Handle batteries like toddlers. Rather do not leave them in cars, especially cars parked in the sun. Extreme heat is not good for batteries in general, and it could cause a spurious vent as well if they overheat. The vent is a chemical reaction, generating more heat that affects other batteries in the proximity. If only one vents in a 3 battery mod, chances are good that the other 2 could vent as well. Remember that quite a few of the exploding or burning Lipo / L-Ion cases were due to overheating batteries in devices. Others were due to metal shavings from the manufacturing process that eventually ruptured the insulating layers dring normal use cycles of heating up and cooling down. As batteries age, the insulation layers might actually fatigue and break down or wear away, increasing the risk of an internal short when eposed to extreme temperatures. Just because they survived a 200 day stint in the sun, does not mean they they would automatically survive another 200 days without burning down your car.
Unlike some wines or women, batteries do not get better with age.
Also keep in mind that tanks dump juice far easier in hot conditions when the VG becomes more runny. Juice dumps on a mod can ruin a bit more than just the mod.

4. Not used regularly as in once a week or two weeks is ok. If they are to be left for extended periods, the best is likely to leave them in a 1/3 or low charged state, in a cool place. Cheap China Mall batteries are the last thing I would use in my mod, let alone leave in my car. I need the thing to take me places, not burn out in a parking lot or in my driveway.

I know we all sound like 'Doom Prophets', but battery safety is not to be ignored, especially with the highly volatile Lithium cells we use for vaping.
Some of the chemical compositions in Lithium Ion cells are less prone to chemical fires, but others can be highly volatile.

Better to be safe than sorry.
Click to expand...
Thanks. Just one thing on the battery wraps. My batteries got this pink plastic, is that the negative or is that a wrap? Only seen pictures off this wraps advertised, thought it was like a thick silicon wrap
 
The cheap china mall type batteries are not worth it.
I bought 1 few weeks ago. Didn't know any better. Thought that all are the same , that it's like with clothes , that some people like brand names.
But it last like 3 hours after being fully charged.
So it's dangerous and a total waste of money.
 
This reminds me of something. Years ago when the Kangertech Mega Evod were the thing. I went to Luke from vapeking to buy some supplies. This was when he still operated from his house in Northcliff. Luke being the awesome guy that he is, a quick restock always turned out to be an hour's worth of chatting. While we were shooting the breeze, in walks a guy to buy a new mod ( cant remember what mods were called those days)
Anywoo. This guys takes out his setup which he proudly announces he made . It consisted of a copper water pipe, 2 AA penlight batteries with the atty secured on top with electrical tape.
I pee'd myself laughing that day
 
Jean claude Vaaldamme said:
??? I got very good advise in the other thread and used it all. The only thing I went against was the charging overnight. More because it was the first time I had to charge batteries, it was 10 in the evening and i did not have spare batteries. And I did not want to buy smoke the next day if my batteries went flat.

So please dont try to be a drama queen, for me going against one suggestion. Thats why I now asked the same question again in more detail. Because these batteries are used by millions of vapers, people with torches, baitboats and other rc toys. So surely everyone will not sit next to their batteries everytime they charging? Or if it is such a big risk, you would read in the media on a daily basis of houses burning down?
Click to expand...

@Jean claude Vaaldamme I'm sure most of us charge our batteries overnight. As you said, "surely everyone will not sit next to their batteries everytime they charging?"
 
I do charge batteries overnight now and again but try to avoid it. My chances of being hit by lightning are far greater than having battery problems while charging in a good charger. Apparently 24 000 people are killed every year by lightning (BBC).

I "schedule" my charging so that I can charge batteries (4 at a time) when I get home from work. By the time I go to bed they have charged and are removed from the charger. The batteries I have been using at night I charge in the morning before work.

What most of us don't realize is that batteries are amazingly cheap. Not in the sense that they could/should be sold for far less and huge profits are being made, but in terms of overall vaping costs.

I you used one battery for a year (I know that this is not possible, but assume instant charging) it would cost you less than one Rand per day (if you throw the battery away after the year is up. 300-500 charge cycles). Other vape consumables and hardware cost far more. Even if you vape at low Ohms it would only cost a couple of Rand a day.

I can't drive one kilometre for one rand.

My advice on batteries is to buy the best and buy more than the minimum. Have several spare batteries on standby.

By doing this you remove most of the dangers associated with batteries at a very low cost per day.
 
Jean claude Vaaldamme said:
Thanks. Just one thing on the battery wraps. My batteries got this pink plastic, is that the negative or is that a wrap? Only seen pictures off this wraps advertised, thought it was like a thick silicon wrap
Click to expand...

The pink plastic is a thin shrink-wrapped PVC plastic. Quite durable on most quality batteries, but it can be very flimsy on the el-cheapo range of the spectrum. Cilindrical Li-Ion cells require this protective insulator, just like the commonly used A, AA, AAA, C and D type cells all have insulated exteriors.

The battery casing or body is basically the container of the battery innards, but it also acts as the negative terminal. The battery wrap is a 'permanent' PVC insulating layer over the battery body, ensuring that just a large enough portion of the negative and positive terminals are exposed so the batery can make proper contact with the contact pins in devices.
The white ring / gasket on top is an added safety measure, as the casing and positive terminals are in very close proximity to each other. If it was not there, the slightest damage on the wrap at the top would expose the casing and positive cap in close proximity, potentially causing a short as the battery is slided in place over the positive contact surface.
If you ever do re-wrap batteries, ensure that you put this ring back or that you replace it if is damaged.

Here you can see what 18650 batteries look like at the positive end:
https://batterybro.com/blogs/18650-...-battery-safety-101-anatomy-ptc-vs-pcb-vs-cid
Some of the photos here will show the reality of how close the body is to the positive terminal at the top:
https://batterybro.com/blogs/18650-...5187011-green-samsung-18650-25r5-vs-blue-25r2

Just something on the differences between the commonly used battery chemistries - INR, ICR and IMR:
https://batterybro.com/blogs/18650-.../18880255-battery-chemistry-finally-explained

Li-Po cells are also used, but they are not that common:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_polymer_battery
 
Hanre "Trol" Slier said:
Hi guys and gals,

What are your recommendations for 18650 and 20700 batteries. Best make ect.

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

What are you using the batteries for? Some batteries are more suited for mechs and others are more suited for regulated mods. So it is hard to say what is more specific.

The Samsung Q30 is pretty good all round. But the Sony range I found is much better. Sony VTC5 for mechs and VTC6 for regulated.
 
Hanre "Trol" Slier said:
Hi @Moerse Rooikat

Thanks, i will have look at them, i have Lg choclates and Samsung R25's but just wanted to get some suggestions... will see what the best price is i can get them for.

Thanx once again.
Click to expand...

Hi @Hanre "Trol" Slier
Check out the Mooch 18650 battery table :
https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/attachments/fe8e47fa-3306-4fcc-a76a-f1ad95d44289-jpeg.774967/

The specs of mAH and CDR are as follows:
Samsung 25R - 2500mah - 20A
LGHG2 (chocs) - 3000mah - 20A
Samsung 30Q - 3000mah - 15A / 20A*

Mooch says the 30Q is actually rated with a CDR of 15A but can run at 20A provided you don't let it get too hot. Not sure how easy it is in practice to know how hot its getting - but that's what he says

So my feeling is if you want a higher amp draw, probably go with the chocs or 25Rs. The chocs would probably give you a bit more battery life, all else equal.

I use all of these batteries - but I typically vape quite far below either of their limits so I don't get near 20A. I have found that the chocs do have a bit more battery life than the 25R. But its not very noticeable.
 
Adephi said:
What are you using the batteries for? Some batteries are more suited for mechs and others are more suited for regulated mods. So it is hard to say what is more specific.

The Samsung Q30 is pretty good all round. But the Sony range I found is much better. Sony VTC5 for mechs and VTC6 for regulated.
Click to expand...

Hi @Adephi,

I only use regulated mods now, have a few mech's but i want to get rid of them.

I need/want 20700 for my SX mini SL Class.
I need "lekker" 18650's for my OhmBoy Rage, DNA 250c Triade and all other regulated mods i have.

I have been looking for Sony vtc 6's but they dont seem to be as popular as the LG choclates, or maybe i just dont go to the right places...

I get the LG choclates and samsung r25's for a VERY good price, so hoping to get the Sonys in the same price range...

Thanx for the info.
 
Guys, please refrain from name calling and getting personal. It reflects poorly on your character.
Play the game and not the man.

Name calling and insults will not be tolerated.
 
Silver said:
Hi @Hanre "Trol" Slier
Check out the Mooch 18650 battery table :
https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/attachments/fe8e47fa-3306-4fcc-a76a-f1ad95d44289-jpeg.774967/

The specs of mAH and CDR are as follows:
Samsung 25R - 2500mah - 20A
LGHG2 (chocs) - 3000mah - 20A
Samsung 30Q - 3000mah - 15A / 20A*

Mooch says the 30Q is actually rated with a CDR of 15A but can run at 20A provided you don't let it get too hot. Not sure how easy it is in practice to know how hot its getting - but that's what he says

So my feeling is if you want a higher amp draw, probably go with the chocs or 25Rs. The chocs would probably give you a bit more battery life, all else equal.

I use all of these batteries - but I typically vape quite far below either of their limits so I don't get near 20A. I have found that the chocs do have a bit more battery life than the 25R. But its not very noticeable.
Click to expand...

Hi @Silver ,

I think the hottest my batteries run are my 20700's in my SL class when i vape it at 80watts...

All other mods that have 200watts limits i dont get close to, i vape between 60 - 110watts max.

I do appreciate the info about mooch, and will have a look at it forsure.

I still have a LOT to learn about a lot of vape stuff, so thanks for helping me on my way.
 
Hanre "Trol" Slier said:
Hi @Adephi,

I only use regulated mods now, have a few mech's but i want to get rid of them.

I need/want 20700 for my SX mini SL Class.
I need "lekker" 18650's for my OhmBoy Rage, DNA 250c Triade and all other regulated mods i have.

I have been looking for Sony vtc 6's but they dont seem to be as popular as the LG choclates, or maybe i just dont go to the right places...

I get the LG choclates and samsung r25's for a VERY good price, so hoping to get the Sonys in the same price range...

Thanx for the info.
Click to expand...

What I said is completely suggestive. Some guys will say something else. It's all about personal preference.

Vape Hyper just had a big battery special. They still have the Sony's. The reason they are not so popular is because they are a bit more expensive than the LG's and Samsungs.
 
Adephi said:
What I said is completely suggestive. Some guys will say something else. It's all about personal preference.

Vape Hyper just had a big battery special. They still have the Sony's. The reason they are not so popular is because they are a bit more expensive than the LG's and Samsungs.
Click to expand...

Thanx @Adephi ,

I appreciate your suggestion. Will have a look and see if vapehyper still has some batteries on special...

Thanx
 
Jean claude Vaaldamme said:
Sorry but Im struggling with the search function. Just a few questions of things I read the last few days.

1 Battery safety. Ok I understand there is dangers etc. But if I drive my car out the driveway there is dangers, if I take a plane I take a calculated risk. So has anyone actually had a battery blown up/ caught fire? Specially while charging? Not I saw a whatsapp video or a friend I know had it happen to him.
Im trying to be carefull, but things like charging batteries overnight while Im asleep, I would like to calculate what risk Im taking

2 whats the reason for battery wraps? Just to look cool? Does people realy take out their batteries and show to someone? Seeing that everyone is scared of the batteries I would think you would handle them with care and not drop them, so its should not be for that reason? Or is it just extra precaution?

3 when I work my car stands mostly oytside in the sun. Is it dangerous to keep my device in hot car, as I dont want to carry it with me the whole time while working?

4 if 3 is not to much of a problem, will batteries get damaged if not used regulary. Im thinking of buying a spare set just to lie somewhere in car for an emergency. Maybe cheap china mall batteries incase they sit there for a few months without use and get damage
Click to expand...
Puff the Magic Dragon said:
Battery Mooch's latest YouTube video explains the best way to charge batteries and is. in my opinion, essential viewing for new vapers, and a great refresher/reminder for experienced vapers.

Battery Mooch is, without doubt, the most trusted battery expert in the vape community. I would strongly recommend that forum members subscribe to his channel.

The more we know about battery safety the better it is for us as individuals, and as an interest group.

Watching the video is worth 12 minutes of your life.




View attachment 142264
Click to expand...
 
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