DIY - Your first time

[Derick]

I've been seeing an increase in the number of people wanting to try out DIY and I thought I would post a quick-start guide.

Note: This is my recommendation of how to get going, you can probably find plenty of other guides online or by talking to experienced DIY-ers.

With that out of the way let's start:
It seems daunting, I know. PG/VG, nicotine, flavours, percentages, calculators that give you weird error messages and omg can I mix it wrong and kill myself?

There are 2 ways you can mix DIY - The supremely accurate, scientific method, where everything works out exactly down to the 0.01 of a ml, or the not-so-accurate, but close enough (and easy) method.

For this post, I'm just going to talk about the easy method. It does not work out your nic level to the exact mg/ml, but gets it pretty close and it errs on the side of caution (so you nic level will be a bit lower if anything).

So let's get some terminology out of the way first:
Nic
Nicotine and generally measured in mg per ml, or % per volume. Coincidentally the two measurement methods have pretty much a 1:1 relationship - i.e. 36mg/ml = 3.6% Vol.
PG
Propylene Glycol - it is a superior flavour carrier and solvent (makes your flavours mix and not separate), also adds to the throat hit.
VG
Vegetable Glycerin or just Gylcerin - The vapour producer, but not so great at carrying flavours, easy on the throat

The easy (but not so accurate) method:
1. Premix your DIY e-liquid to the correct PG/VG ratio and nic strength.
2. Add Flavour to a small sample
3. Vape

Yep, as easy as that, but I'll explain a bit more
When starting out, I recommend you do a 50/50 PG/VG mix, here you get the best of both worlds (flavour vs vapour) - later when you get better at mixing, you can do higher VG mixes for those 'sick clouds' or for whatever ratio you later find you prefer. 50/50 is also the easiest to mix.

When starting out, use the PG and VG that have no nicotine in it, it is by far cheaper than the PG and VG that contain nic, so if it is a total unvapable disaster, at least you are wasting the cheap stuff.

1. So add 5ml of pure, no nic PG to 5ml of pure no nic VG and you now have a 10ml 50/50 PG/VG mix with no nicotine.

2. Add 0.8ml of the flavour you want to try - 0.8ml of 10ml works out to 8% strength and 8% is a good place to start with most flavours.

3. Vape - here I recommend using a dripper, purely because it is easier to try a small sample with a dripper, with a tank you would either have to vape the tank empty, or wash it out between tastings, but there is nothing wrong with using a tank, just a bit more 'work'

Now you can mess with the flavour percentage, add a bit more if you like it stronger, add more PG/VG if you like it weaker. Add specific amounts, so you can have some idea of what he final percentage is that you like.

Beginners tend to add too much flavouring to start off with, the upside to a lot of flavour is that it tastes really great in the short term, but you will get sick of the flavour a lot quicker. With TFA and Capella flavours I recommend that you go no higher than about 12% strength.

And that's it for this post - next post will be in a day or two, depending on my schedule, but I'll continue with the easy method and talk about making mixes with nicotine.

Feel free to ask questions on this post, will answer as I see them

EDIT: I will use this as a kind of 'series' and take you through to the advanced stuff, so you should be able to become a master mixer if you follow these posts. I will also include some info on steeping and address some of the myths, do's and don't's etc.

 

[Raslin]

This is a brilliant idea, I for one would appreciate the knowledge passed on immensely.

 

[Arthster]

Thanks @Derick. One thing tough when you say TFA and Capella flavours. what is the difference and how do you tell them apart?

 

[Derick]

Thanks @Derick. One thing tough when you say TFA and Capella flavours. what is the difference and how do you tell them apart?

The difference is purely the company that sells them

They are both American companies and the top two companies around the world when it comes to flavour for DIY. Although they do not provide flavours for just e-liquid, they do provide some of their flavours with e-liquid in mind as they are constantly improving based on feedback from the e-cig community.

When you read the international forums there are people that prefer the one over the other, but their flavour profiles are in fact very similar for the most part, but the one company will produce a flavour the other doesn't and vice versa.

In the end there are only about 4 companies worldwide that actually make the flavours and companies like TFA and Capella are in fact just resellers. So it is quite possible that some of their flavours are in fact exactly the same thing

 

[Marzuq]

I've been seeing an increase in the number of people wanting to try out DIY and I thought I would post a quick-start guide.

Note: This is my recommendation of how to get going, you can probably find plenty of other guides online or by talking to experienced DIY-ers.

With that out of the way let's start:
It seems daunting, I know. PG/VG, nicotine, flavours, percentages, calculators that give you weird error messages and omg can I mix it wrong and kill myself?

There are 2 ways you can mix DIY - The supremely accurate, scientific method, where everything works out exactly down to the 0.01 of a ml, or the not-so-accurate, but close enough (and easy) method.

For this post, I'm just going to talk about the easy method. It does not work out your nic level to the exact mg/ml, but gets it pretty close and it errs on the side of caution (so you nic level will be a bit lower if anything).

So let's get some terminology out of the way first:
Nic
Nicotine and generally measured in mg per ml, or % per volume. Coincidentally the two measurement methods have pretty much a 1:1 relationship - i.e. 36mg/ml = 3.6% Vol.
PG
Propylene Glycol - it is a superior flavour carrier and solvent (makes your flavours mix and not separate), also adds to the throat hit.
VG
Vegetable Glycerin or just Gylcerin - The vapour producer, but not so great at carrying flavours, easy on the throat

The easy (but not so accurate) method:
1. Premix your DIY e-liquid to the correct PG/VG ratio and nic strength.
2. Add Flavour to a small sample
3. Vape

Yep, as easy as that, but I'll explain a bit more
When starting out, I recommend you do a 50/50 PG/VG mix, here you get the best of both worlds (flavour vs vapour) - later when you get better at mixing, you can do higher VG mixes for those 'sick clouds' or for whatever ratio you later find you prefer. 50/50 is also the easiest to mix.

When starting out, use the PG and VG that have no nicotine in it, it is by far cheaper than the PG and VG that contain nic, so if it is a total unvapable disaster, at least you are wasting the cheap stuff.

1. So add 5ml of pure, no nic PG to 5ml of pure no nic VG and you now have a 10ml 50/50 PG/VG mix with no nicotine.

2. Add 0.8ml of the flavour you want to try - 0.8ml of 10ml works out to 8% strength and 8% is a good place to start with most flavours.

3. Vape - here I recommend using a dripper, purely because it is easier to try a small sample with a dripper, with a tank you would either have to vape the tank empty, or wash it out between tastings, but there is nothing wrong with using a tank, just a bit more 'work'

Now you can mess with the flavour percentage, add a bit more if you like it stronger, add more PG/VG if you like it weaker. Add specific amounts, so you can have some idea of what he final percentage is that you like.

Beginners tend to add too much flavouring to start off with, the upside to a lot of flavour is that it tastes really great in the short term, but you will get sick of the flavour a lot quicker. With TFA and Capella flavours I recommend that you go no higher than about 12% strength.

And that's it for this post - next post will be in a day or two, depending on my schedule, but I'll continue with the easy method and talk about making mixes with nicotine.

Feel free to ask questions on this post, will answer as I see them

brilliant thread @Derick this is a dummies guide even i can understand.

 

[Derick]

brilliant thread @Derick this is a dummies guide even i can understand.

hehe, it is really not that complicated - as with anything new, it can seem overwhelming, but if you take baby steps and make sure you understand each step, then it becomes pretty simple.

The most difficult part is making an awesome tasting flavour, and figuring out what flavours to combine to make it awesome

 

[Marzuq]

hehe, it is really not that complicated - as with anything new, it can seem overwhelming, but if you take baby steps and make sure you understand each step, then it becomes pretty simple.

The most difficult part is making an awesome tasting flavour, and figuring out what flavours to combine to make it awesome

I have to agree with you. thats the reason i have not dabbled with making juices as yet. I have no idea what flavours id like to make and in most cases you end up trying to replicate a flavour which usually ends up a bust

 

[Derick]

I have to agree with you. thats the reason i have not dabbled with making juices as yet. I have no idea what flavours id like to make and in most cases you end up trying to replicate a flavour which usually ends up a bust

Yeah copying a flavour is a near impossible task - sometimes two separate flavour concentrates can make a combined flavour that is nothing like the two ingredients. Only once you have lots of experience in the flavour side will you be able to attempt something like that.

To make the standard single flavour juices is pretty easy though

 

[Raslin]

Agreed, but with single flavours like fruit in particular I find tge flavours to be very weak. How do you get these flavours to pop? I have been told to add creams and custards but what if I want just the fruit flavour and not a dessert type flavour?

 

[Derick]

Agreed, but with single flavours like fruit in particular I find tge flavours to be very weak. How do you get these flavours to pop? I have been told to add creams and custards but what if I want just the fruit flavour and not a dessert type flavour?

This very much comes down to the flavour concentrate - although the flavour companies will sell a 'cherry' flavour for example, they don't really specify which cherry flavour it is - is it fruit type cherry, glazed cherry, cherry you get in those lolipop flavours, or even cough syrup cherry?

There are around 10 to 15 different cherry flavours and obviosuly the flavour companies are not going to stock each and every one, they are only going to stock the 1 or 2 that are the best sellers.

So the best bet is to test and try and experiment

 

[hands]

sour additive and some sweetener and even a small amount of menthol goes nicely with fruits.

 

[ziti]

Great thread @Derick. Thanks for sharing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Derick]

sour additive and some sweetener and even a small amount of menthol goes nicely with fruits.

Definitely, but I'll also talk a bit about the various additives out there and what they can do and not do

 

[yuganp]

Be careful of some concentrates as they should by used at low percentages. Things like tfa menthol, koolada, EM and tobacco concentrates should be used below 3% and then adjusted for taste. Read this blog post of levels of flavouring - http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...s-aka-general-diy-guide-flavoring-ratios.html
Also this link for percentages for TFA - http://www.reddit.com/r/DIY_eJuice/comments/1ivjog/mega_tfa_tpa_recipe_thread/

 

[Derick]

Be careful of some concentrates as they should by used at low percentages. Things like tfa menthol, koolada, EM and tobacco concentrates should be used below 3% and then adjusted for taste. Read this blog post of levels of flavouring - http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...s-aka-general-diy-guide-flavoring-ratios.html
Also this link for percentages for TFA - http://www.reddit.com/r/DIY_eJuice/comments/1ivjog/mega_tfa_tpa_recipe_thread/

Yep, will discuss percentages, koolada, menthol, EM, Sucralose, Stevia etc. I consider to be additives rather than flavours on their own, and as for tobacco - well that could be a whole series of posts on their own - wouldn't recommend someone get into tobacco flavours right off the bat

 

[eviltoy]

This thread title gives me the giggles

 

[yuganp]

I think my problem is that for my tastes Menthol is the main ingredient and everything else is an additives. Today is black cherry and menthol. Tomorrow could be menthol and koolada. The next day could be mild and black with menthol.

 

[Silver]

Absolutely love your thread @Derrick. Will be following the whole series closely. This topic intrigues me a lot even though I have not commenced DIY yet. I do like dabbling in additives though - to pump up my performance - lol

 

[Derick]

Absolutely love your thread @Derrick. Will be following the whole series closely. This topic intrigues me a lot even though I have not commenced DIY yet. I do like dabbling in additives though - to pump up my performance - lol

Ha, yep, many DIY-ers start with just adding a few drops of menthol to their favourite mixes

 

[Wesley]

Absolutely love your thread @Derrick. Will be following the whole series closely. This topic intrigues me a lot even though I have not commenced DIY yet. I do like dabbling in additives though - to pump up my performance - lol

I can relate - I started off with Liqua juices and most of them were crap, but I could mix them together to create something vapable and this is where the DIY bug took hold of me.

 

[Derick]

Ok on to PART 2

in Part 1 you mixed some 50/50 PG/VG and added a flavour, you played a bit with the flavour and you think you have it where you like it, or it was absolute crap and you binned it. The secret to success is just playing. If you are not someone that likes fiddling, experimenting and trying out wild ideas then you are probably not going to enjoy DIY.

Before I get to the part about adding nicotine, perhaps now is a good time to say a few things about flavour and also nicotine and safety.

Flavour like or dislike is a very, very subjective thing. It is not only a personal thing, but it is influenced by your culture, your upbringing, any memories associated with a particular flavour, what you drank or ate before vaping, your hydration level, your hunger level and a myriad of other factors all playing a role in how you perceive a flavour and whether you will like it or not. So when trying out a new flavour, vape it for at least a few hours before making up your mind. Take note of what you eat or drink and think about how that can affect your taste buds before calling a flavour good/bad.

Generally when tasting new flavours, or mixing a new flavour for your DIY creation, make sure you are well hydrated, not hungry, not thirsty and wait at least an hour after eating, to make sure your taste buds are not influenced by the garlic pizza you had 5 minutes ago.

Also keep an open mind, with certain flavours you might not like the real product, but vaping a flavour vs eating or drinking the real deal are two different things entirely. You might intensely dislike peanut butter, but never realized that it is the texture that puts you off - then when you vape peanut butter flavour you might be in vaping nirvana - you will never know until you try.

Ok, Now some things about nicotine.

SAFETY
Generally most mixing kits in SA comes with 36mg (3.6% Vol) nicotine. This level of nicotine is reasonably safe to work with, if you spill some on your skin, it can be absorbed into the blood stream over time and it will make you feel queasy, light headed and give you heart palpitations. Unless you bathe in the stuff for hours, the chances of 36mg killing you are very slim. Having said that, I'm just a dude on the internet, not a doctor, so if you feel unwell, seek medical advice.

If you spill 36mg nicotine on your skin, wash it off soon as you can and you will be fine. Or better yet, put some disposable gloves on and then you don't have to worry.

If you get a little bit in your mouth, you might experience the same symptoms as spilling on your skin, so just rinse out your mouth and continue.

If you go and drink 100ml, you're gonna be sick, very sick. Puking, diarrhea, tremors, sweats are some of the symptoms, best bet is to visit the emergency room. Once again, it probably won't kill you, unless you have some pre-existing condition that makes you sensitive to the effects of nicotine. And once again, I'm not a doctor, but what I can say is that to date, not a single person has been killed by ingesting e-liquid.

The only death with e-liquid recorded is someone that injected it directly into his bloodstream, and his intention was actually to kill himself.

PETS: Besides nicotine, Propylene Glycol is harmful to cats. If they ingest enough of the stuff, it causes problems with their kidneys and they can die. Dogs not a problem, as some dog food even contain PG (which is one reason you never feed dog food to a cat so by the way).

KIDS: Kids will smell the nice flavours and think they can drink it. One taste is usually enough to keep them from drinking more, but you don't want to mess around here. Treat it as you would treat bleach. Keep it out of reach and keep it tightly closed and remember - there is no such thing as a childproof cap. Our son has been able to open childproof caps and kiddie locks on doors since he was 3.
If your precious one does drink some e-liquid, he will probably be fine, but sick. Take no chances here and take them to the emergency room to be checked out thoroughly.

Ok, Safety out of the way, but I have to put a disclaimer here, I'm am NOT a medical professional. In the end it is up to you to be safe and get yourself/your loved ones to the doctor if you think you need to go. I don't want your last words to be 'But Derick said I would be fine'

Finally with the boring stuff out of the way, we can get to the nicotine mixing.

1. Mixing the right mg Nic
Some People get a bit confused with how the mg will be affected when mixing the base liquids so I will try and simplify:
Lets say you pour your favourite rum and coke, single. it is 25ml of rum in a 250ml glass with coke, so 10% of your drink contains rum. You put your drink down, have a vape and forget that you poured yourself a drink. So you pour another, same 25ml of rum in 250ml coke, 10% rum.

As you walk out the kitchen, drink in hand, you see the other rum & coke you poured earlier. Damn. Oh well, you get a beer mug out of the cupboard and ignoring your wife's scowl, you pour both the drinks into the 500ml beer mug.

So, what do you have in the beer mug? 50ml rum, in a 500ml container with coke, so still 10%. So this is still a single rum & coke.

10% of rum in your coke, added to another 10% mix of rum and coke does NOT make a 20% rum and coke - if that was true, by the time I have added 10 of these together I would have 100% rum and no coke - which of course is not possible (however much we want it to be)

Mixing nicotine works the same way. if you take 36mg PG and add 36mg VG, you end up with a 36mg PG/VG mix. (Still 3.6% same as the rum)

I previously recommended we work with a 50/50 mix in the pure PG and VG and I'm going to recommend the same here, to keep things simple.

Easiest way: take all of your PG 36mg and add it to all of your VG 36mg - you now have a 50/50 PG/VG 36mg mix that you can use for the rest of your DIY mad scientist creations.

When mixing PG and VG you will notice that it forms these swirls and strands in your mix - PG and VG have different densities and that is what causes the weird effect. You want to stir this mixture until it turns clear again to make sure it is mixed properly.

2. Diluting (getting your mg down to a vapable level)
Like in Part 1 where you mixed a pure 50/50 PG/VG mix, mix yourself another batch of pure PG/VG 50/50. Easiest way is to just mix all your pure PG and VG together so you have a large batch of 50/50 pure PG/VG.

Right, now from all the various bottles of PG/VG nic and no nic you had, you have now simplified your whole mixing kit down to 2 mixes:
1 x 50/50 PG/VG mix with no nicotine and
1 x 50/50 PG/VG mix with 36mg nicotine.

This is now a lot simpler to work with. label your mixes however, so you don't get confused.

To get your 36mg down to the level you want, some maths is unfortunately involved, it is primary school maths however, so you should be fine:

1. Take your 36mg and divide by the target mg - the mg/ml that you want to achieve
So we want to make 12mg for example: 36/12 = 3

2. This number indicates how many equal parts there are going to be in your mix. One Part is always going to be nicotine and the rest will be the pure (no nicotine) mix. So in our example, it is going to be one part 36mg, diluted with two parts pure mix.

Or to put it into numbers: If you want to make 30ml: It is going to be 10ml 36mg, added to 20ml pure mix = 30ml 12mg

Another example: You want to make 6mg:
36/6 = 6, so 6 parts total - that is 1 part nicotine, 5 parts pure
or for 30ml, it will be 5ml 36mg and 25ml pure = 30ml 6mg

I think I'll stop here, been a long post and I will leave it open to questions at this point.

Next part we can add the flavour to your mix and I will discuss how it will affect your nic strength

 

[Derick]

At the end of this easy-mix series, I will put it all in a PDF and post it here

 

[Raslin]

Brilliant, I like the part about the pizza. Seriously, do you recommend using both pg and vg nic in our mixes? I have been using vg based nic and pg flavour. Would this make a difference?

 

[Derick]

Brilliant, I like the part about the pizza. Seriously, do you recommend using both pg and vg nic in our mixes? I have been using vg based nic and pg flavour. Would this make a difference?

If you use only VG and then your flavour is PG based, you are ending up with something like a 10/90 PG/VG mix (depending on how much of the PG flavor you are using of course). Nothing wrong with that, you will get more vapour than a 50/50 PG/VG mix, but your flavours will be more muted as VG is not as good at carrying flavours as PG is.
People usually counteract this by adding more flavouring, so that the taste is stronger. These flavourings have their limits though - too much and your e-liquid starts getting a 'chemical' or perfume-like taste to them.

In the end, it will depend on what is more important to you. Flavour vs vapour

 

[Raslin]

What I meant was I use a total mix of 50/50. For example I mix 4ml pg based flavour,11ml pure pg, 6ml vg nic and 9ml pure vg to get a 30ml juice. So I only use vg based nic.