If I am not mistaken, there is a separate posting about that.
https://www.ecigssa.co.za/to-clone-or-not-to-clone.t35587/
HE v non-HE
- Thread starter Scouse45
- Start date
If I am not mistaken, there is a separate posting about that.
https://www.ecigssa.co.za/to-clone-or-not-to-clone.t35587/
I think he means that because of all the recent posts of HE gear the rest of the gear is taking a backseat when it comes to attention.
I have noticed a drop in the activity of the forum but it certainly does not have to be that way.
If i manage to find a way to be able to get to Vapecon then the plan is to challenge HE vapers to a showdown.
I am almost 100% sure i will beat them flavor wise with something cheap like the Maddog RDA.
If you manage to make it vapecon then we can arrange an exclusive mad dog meet
This thread can now resume it's regularly scheduled ranting.
Some clones rock , some clones don't
Some people buy them, some others won't
Personal choice, at the end of the day its each forum menbers own money, so everone can buy what the hell they want.
I have authentic vape goods and clones as well, if someone has a problem with that well... it their prob not mine.
I agree largely with your sentiments @Stosta but here's the rub. It is understandable that some forum members feel that "lower end " gear is not worth discussing, or is frowned upon by others. If "high enders" state that products xy and z ARE the BEST that money can buy, where does it leave them ? Why would they feel at ease saying something like " I think the Goblin mini is one of the best RTAs on the market ?...even if it is for them.
On the pet peeves thread, for example, it was stated that someone's pet peeve was ... people who claim to have high end gear at home, but vape on a pico and goblin when on the go....or words to that effect (admittedly this peeve example could be interpreted several ways, but I am certain some vapers felt offended, even if this wasn't the intention). This can only be divisive.
I'm not saying this out of jealousy or bitterness. My wife would allow me to buy any and all "high end" gear I would like. But I choose not to. I won't give reasons why, because it has no relevance to the haves vs have nots issue raised by @Daniel .
For several months I have been toying with the idea of starting a thread entitled something like "Low end gear I have really liked". I have refrained from doing so because it may offend others. I have also steered clear of the high vs low end gear discussions, as well as the clone debate.
This is a great forum and doesn't deserve to be derailed by petty one upmanship, whether it is intentional or not.
On the pet peeves thread, for example, it was stated that someone's pet peeve was ... people who claim to have high end gear at home, but vape on a pico and goblin when on the go....or words to that effect (admittedly this peeve example could be interpreted several ways, but I am certain some vapers felt offended, even if this wasn't the intention). This can only be divisive.
I'm not saying this out of jealousy or bitterness. My wife would allow me to buy any and all "high end" gear I would like. But I choose not to. I won't give reasons why, because it has no relevance to the haves vs have nots issue raised by @Daniel .
For several months I have been toying with the idea of starting a thread entitled something like "Low end gear I have really liked". I have refrained from doing so because it may offend others. I have also steered clear of the high vs low end gear discussions, as well as the clone debate.
This is a great forum and doesn't deserve to be derailed by petty one upmanship, whether it is intentional or not.
Well worded @Puff the Magic Dragon
That "Low end gear I have really liked" thread sounds very interesting. I am keen to hear which are the winners.
I have a few I can add to that thread
That "Low end gear I have really liked" thread sounds very interesting. I am keen to hear which are the winners.
I have a few I can add to that thread
I would say to a point we are all HE vapers, reason being the absurd prices we have to pay for juice, the profit margins are insane, and we all need juice regardless of what device u use. If any regulations need to be changed or applied it needs to come down on the manufacturers of juices, quality control and price regulating of some sort.
Of late I've become kinda shy to do posts or even add my 2 cents to 99% of the threads. In my 2 year + vaping journey I've been fortunate enough to experience both worlds - HE & el cheapo commercial stuff. I've bought a ridiculous amount of gear, sold a lot, tossed a lot and given away truck loads to the less fortunate guys and still have boxes full of unused gear.
I need to break this down into 2 categories - Mods and RDA/ RTA.
Mods are simple - HE mods look awesome but perform exactly the same as the cheap stuff - i.e. Your iSticks with built in batteries and such. So to me HE mods only have one benefit and that's looks. I have a few Stab wood mods - An Kodoma - which I love but never use because it's impractical to carry around. A Ohmsmium - same. An Athena Pride, which is just to damn heavy so it stays on my desk, an M17 which I love but is held in less than little regard amongst the HE community because a few had a issue and a HHA Ares which I use daily, at my desk and out & about. Lately though I've been gravitating back towards my Snowwolf mini's, my Yihi Q Mini's ( I have 2) and such mods, simply because I find them more practical to use, are mods resilient and don't costs as much - thus I don't flip a fuse when I drop or bump it.
RDA/RTA - now this is different. I have A Skyline a 2 Hussars - Hussar - a waste of my money, Skyline awesome RTA, innovative design, I have a 2nd 1 one the way with the GB. This is where the fanfare about HE RTA's stops. If I was given the opportunity to get into a Skyline GB now, I wouldn't, not because its crap or anything like that but because of 2 completely different reasons - 1. The hurdles and rigmarole involved in getting a Skyline doesn't in my opinion justify the gains in terms of vape quality over commercial RTA's & 2. I'm gravitating back to my trusty Subtanks because those R500 tanks are just as good for my vaping style as the R 3000 Skyline, if not better.
Only my opinion based on my needs.
I need to break this down into 2 categories - Mods and RDA/ RTA.
Mods are simple - HE mods look awesome but perform exactly the same as the cheap stuff - i.e. Your iSticks with built in batteries and such. So to me HE mods only have one benefit and that's looks. I have a few Stab wood mods - An Kodoma - which I love but never use because it's impractical to carry around. A Ohmsmium - same. An Athena Pride, which is just to damn heavy so it stays on my desk, an M17 which I love but is held in less than little regard amongst the HE community because a few had a issue and a HHA Ares which I use daily, at my desk and out & about. Lately though I've been gravitating back towards my Snowwolf mini's, my Yihi Q Mini's ( I have 2) and such mods, simply because I find them more practical to use, are mods resilient and don't costs as much - thus I don't flip a fuse when I drop or bump it.
RDA/RTA - now this is different. I have A Skyline a 2 Hussars - Hussar - a waste of my money, Skyline awesome RTA, innovative design, I have a 2nd 1 one the way with the GB. This is where the fanfare about HE RTA's stops. If I was given the opportunity to get into a Skyline GB now, I wouldn't, not because its crap or anything like that but because of 2 completely different reasons - 1. The hurdles and rigmarole involved in getting a Skyline doesn't in my opinion justify the gains in terms of vape quality over commercial RTA's & 2. I'm gravitating back to my trusty Subtanks because those R500 tanks are just as good for my vaping style as the R 3000 Skyline, if not better.
Only my opinion based on my needs.
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I think you if you have found your vaping nirvana, stick with, be proud of it and enjoy every vaping moment with it. We all come to that point at 1 point or another. I know I have found mine. As long as you vaping, High end, Mid end, Low End, There should be NO END to vaping
That "Low end gear I have really liked" thread sounds very interesting. I am keen to hear which are the winners.
I have a few I can add to that thread
There are three main items. Two of them clones (Oh the embarrassment and shame) the other a very low end mod. Perhaps I will start the thread once everyone has calmed down re High vs low end and clones.
I actually quite appreciate how people hav chipped in here and been pretty decent about it all. At the risk of being cheesy the whole point is to vape and not smoke. So we all passing.
@Rob Fisher @Silver @Ash and whoever else I left out i appreciate ur feedback. My only gripe was simply that the form has strayed away from regular vape purchases and discussions on new upcoming gear and current events, and had gone more toward only the fancy stuff. And don't get me wrong I love the look and sound of it all, but I can't quite partake in all of it. I just like discussions to also include the regular vapers. High end or low end or even damn clones shouldn't matter in the least. It comes down to wat ur finances and choices decide.
I myself ordered some sxk kayfuns to try as I can't simply shell out 2000 or so without knowing if it's worth it. That's my call. And I am including clones in the discussion coz I can is my thread haha. I also understand some people hav a personal stance I know @Rob Fisher had a friend rob if I'm not mistaken go out of business dies to clones. Everything is subject no matter wat it is.
Clones aside the whole point is to share in each other's enjoyment as many others don't understand my vaping enjoyment. If i show my wife my new DNA coils she simply doesn't get it. Whereas my mates @Akash and @Greyz r proper mates that we share the excitement of it all!
Thanks for everyone's input. Awesome chat this. And maybe we should start some other threads as @Puff the Magic Dragon said jus for more laughs and enjoyment.
@Rob Fisher @Silver @Ash and whoever else I left out i appreciate ur feedback. My only gripe was simply that the form has strayed away from regular vape purchases and discussions on new upcoming gear and current events, and had gone more toward only the fancy stuff. And don't get me wrong I love the look and sound of it all, but I can't quite partake in all of it. I just like discussions to also include the regular vapers. High end or low end or even damn clones shouldn't matter in the least. It comes down to wat ur finances and choices decide.
I myself ordered some sxk kayfuns to try as I can't simply shell out 2000 or so without knowing if it's worth it. That's my call. And I am including clones in the discussion coz I can is my thread haha. I also understand some people hav a personal stance I know @Rob Fisher had a friend rob if I'm not mistaken go out of business dies to clones. Everything is subject no matter wat it is.
Clones aside the whole point is to share in each other's enjoyment as many others don't understand my vaping enjoyment. If i show my wife my new DNA coils she simply doesn't get it. Whereas my mates @Akash and @Greyz r proper mates that we share the excitement of it all!
Thanks for everyone's input. Awesome chat this. And maybe we should start some other threads as @Puff the Magic Dragon said jus for more laughs and enjoyment.
High End ? Horribly Elitist?
Come lets all spend the money where we each want to spend it...
Just for an example most seem to value the DNA based mods highly and they seem to be more pricey than I believe to be reasonable, but all that aside, whenever I see a picture of one on here someone showing off his overpriced mod, its in power mode... ok definitely w*nker territory, after all, I understood the DNA mods are supposed to be really good at temp control, so why run in power mode?... That in my eyes pretty much makes the HE gear a one upmanship game, which I wouldn't want to partake in... in fact I've got another iStick Pico underway, will work just as well as any DNA mod out there at a fraction of the cost...
It seems like discussions of HE gear and clones bear close resemblance to discussions of politics and religion.
Some people can argue (on any of the sides) about any of those topics for hours on end and still get nothing out of it except frustration and headaches.
Others can just shrug it off and realize that everyone has an opinion and a right to believe what they want and do with their lives and / or money what they want, and just not even bother getting caught up in the discussions.
And then you get the evil bastards that stir and poke fun at people on both sides of the conversations to rile them up, get them involved in fistfights, and then simply sit back and have a helluva time watching the whole debacle play itself out. In a front row seat, nogal.
We are not here to convince anyone to use a specific device or atty, we just want them to vape... on whatever the heck they want to. As long as they can stop smoking, or just smoke less, that's all that counts. Oh, and if they have a bit of fun while doing it, even better !
Me, I'm just here because I vape and I enjoy the spirit and camaraderie of this community.
P.S. I still use my Evic VTC mini, Subtank Mini, iJust 2 and Billow v2 every day. And you know why? Cause they work for me.
Some people can argue (on any of the sides) about any of those topics for hours on end and still get nothing out of it except frustration and headaches.
Others can just shrug it off and realize that everyone has an opinion and a right to believe what they want and do with their lives and / or money what they want, and just not even bother getting caught up in the discussions.
And then you get the evil bastards that stir and poke fun at people on both sides of the conversations to rile them up, get them involved in fistfights, and then simply sit back and have a helluva time watching the whole debacle play itself out. In a front row seat, nogal.
We are not here to convince anyone to use a specific device or atty, we just want them to vape... on whatever the heck they want to. As long as they can stop smoking, or just smoke less, that's all that counts. Oh, and if they have a bit of fun while doing it, even better !
Me, I'm just here because I vape and I enjoy the spirit and camaraderie of this community.
P.S. I still use my Evic VTC mini, Subtank Mini, iJust 2 and Billow v2 every day. And you know why? Cause they work for me.
My 2c sits like this.
Over the last couple of months, vaping has taken off in Rustenburg...
Yeah, we're kinda slow.
And since advocating VapeCon on our whatsapp group I've run into guys saying things like
"yo, I need to upgrade my gear, I cannot be seen vaping a Pico at VapeCon"
So, I think alot of it is a competitive spirit thing we South Africans are so well endowed with.
It comes down to revisiting the reason I started vaping in the first place and inevitably why this forum has become my family I've never met.
To stop smoking, and to enjoy the hell out of this hobby. Let it never be a competition.
There's no way you will ever have the best, somewhere someone thinks what you are using is butt ugly, and a horrible vape, for whatever their reasons and the same person may feel something you chucked in the bin is the best thing since sliced bread.
Sent from my iPhone 7+ using Tapatalk
Over the last couple of months, vaping has taken off in Rustenburg...
Yeah, we're kinda slow.
And since advocating VapeCon on our whatsapp group I've run into guys saying things like
"yo, I need to upgrade my gear, I cannot be seen vaping a Pico at VapeCon"
So, I think alot of it is a competitive spirit thing we South Africans are so well endowed with.
It comes down to revisiting the reason I started vaping in the first place and inevitably why this forum has become my family I've never met.
To stop smoking, and to enjoy the hell out of this hobby. Let it never be a competition.
There's no way you will ever have the best, somewhere someone thinks what you are using is butt ugly, and a horrible vape, for whatever their reasons and the same person may feel something you chucked in the bin is the best thing since sliced bread.
Sent from my iPhone 7+ using Tapatalk
Interesting to observe the progression from forming, storming, to currently the start of norming and hopefully next up, performing.
I think the forum has lost its focus due to the introduction of this so called superior gear as this is meant to be a forum based in, and intended to promote, the culture of the general South African vaper.
One of my posts in response to our "introduction" to HE was to compare the trend to the moral of the story contained in "The emperors new clothes", and seems my prediction has now come to fruition. The proof is being presented right here and for that reason I propose we consider that so called HE gear remains where it has its roots in the Facebook culture and actually should rather stay there. This is truly not the place for it if we want to ensure this forum remains relevant to its target audience.
Ok, I think I may have stepped in it big time again, but I am no stranger to foot in mouth disease so throw those tomatoes if you wish. As long as we can get the conversation going in some sort of direction!
Regards
I think the forum has lost its focus due to the introduction of this so called superior gear as this is meant to be a forum based in, and intended to promote, the culture of the general South African vaper.
One of my posts in response to our "introduction" to HE was to compare the trend to the moral of the story contained in "The emperors new clothes", and seems my prediction has now come to fruition. The proof is being presented right here and for that reason I propose we consider that so called HE gear remains where it has its roots in the Facebook culture and actually should rather stay there. This is truly not the place for it if we want to ensure this forum remains relevant to its target audience.
Ok, I think I may have stepped in it big time again, but I am no stranger to foot in mouth disease so throw those tomatoes if you wish. As long as we can get the conversation going in some sort of direction!
Regards
I've toyed in both spectrums of HE and regular devices. By regular I mean cheaper hardware thats available. IMO I find HE not versatile enough for my style of vaping as it's more geared up for the MTL vaper. Most HE mods simply go up to 75w which is if that's the style of vaping you like. I myself will not buy clones but that does not mean it has to be HE. IMO the Goon is probably the best dripper available but not quite scratching the HE market. So What!!!
Theres a couple of reasons I do not buy clones although that was all that was really readably available 4 years ago. I don't buy clones because a) I can generally afford not to and b) I like to support the industry that have worked hard to design their devices etc to provide me with the "best" quality available. I have quite an extensive collection of mods, RDA's etc however I also like to offload occasional to make room for new products as I'm not a hoarder.
HE is also very much of a status symbol and if that's what you are wanting then great go for it. I have DNA chips in a lot of mods which are not HE although the HE market tends to use it. Then there's the look of some of the HE equipment. Again imo a lot look like sex toys with their glittery colours but that's my opinion. I have VA mod which I've had to send straight back to VA (Vicious Ant) because it was faulty. I've also actually very shocked with the bad service I have experienced from VA. If I buy a Ferrari I want the service that comes with that car and to be treated well. I get much better service from my local vendor.
In essence although I do appreciate HE hardware and will probably buy more should I find something that really appeals to me a lot of it is very overpriced and yes I believe does feed on ego as it does mine from time to time.
I will never be ashamed to advertise my "low end" so called gear even though I've spent maybe 3.5k on a mod but still not classed HE.
I urge you all to just be "you" and not be intimidated by those who choose to show of their yachts. Enjoy your boat and sale into the sunset with complete serenity.
Theres a couple of reasons I do not buy clones although that was all that was really readably available 4 years ago. I don't buy clones because a) I can generally afford not to and b) I like to support the industry that have worked hard to design their devices etc to provide me with the "best" quality available. I have quite an extensive collection of mods, RDA's etc however I also like to offload occasional to make room for new products as I'm not a hoarder.
HE is also very much of a status symbol and if that's what you are wanting then great go for it. I have DNA chips in a lot of mods which are not HE although the HE market tends to use it. Then there's the look of some of the HE equipment. Again imo a lot look like sex toys with their glittery colours but that's my opinion. I have VA mod which I've had to send straight back to VA (Vicious Ant) because it was faulty. I've also actually very shocked with the bad service I have experienced from VA. If I buy a Ferrari I want the service that comes with that car and to be treated well. I get much better service from my local vendor.
In essence although I do appreciate HE hardware and will probably buy more should I find something that really appeals to me a lot of it is very overpriced and yes I believe does feed on ego as it does mine from time to time.
I will never be ashamed to advertise my "low end" so called gear even though I've spent maybe 3.5k on a mod but still not classed HE.
I urge you all to just be "you" and not be intimidated by those who choose to show of their yachts. Enjoy your boat and sale into the sunset with complete serenity.
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I am as happy as a pig in Palestine with my collection. I can start up anyone of them anytime and have close to an orgasmic experience.
HE gear is for refined vapors just like a bottle of Kanonkop Black Label Pinotage 2014 is for the refined wine fanatic.
It is a question of what makes you sing and dance when you on your own or what takes you down that avenue of delight. My vice i have found in RDA's and mods that refuse to let me down.
I take someone like @hands .......... he is a happy chappy with his white twinky Minikin v2 and SM tank.
@Rob Fisher is a huge m8 of mine and the fact that he is a devoted HE fan does not phase me in the least because that is where he has found his happy place and i respect him for that.
All simply boils down to what an individual needs to keep him off the stinkies while smiling out of pure content with his setup that compliments his style the best.
Nasty remarks germinate out of pure jealousy and that is what we must keep out of the forum since it is a personal flaw.
Damn ..... typing too much ....... miss kissing my Goon on my Predator 228.
HE gear is for refined vapors just like a bottle of Kanonkop Black Label Pinotage 2014 is for the refined wine fanatic.
It is a question of what makes you sing and dance when you on your own or what takes you down that avenue of delight. My vice i have found in RDA's and mods that refuse to let me down.
I take someone like @hands .......... he is a happy chappy with his white twinky Minikin v2 and SM tank.
@Rob Fisher is a huge m8 of mine and the fact that he is a devoted HE fan does not phase me in the least because that is where he has found his happy place and i respect him for that.
All simply boils down to what an individual needs to keep him off the stinkies while smiling out of pure content with his setup that compliments his style the best.
Nasty remarks germinate out of pure jealousy and that is what we must keep out of the forum since it is a personal flaw.
Damn ..... typing too much ....... miss kissing my Goon on my Predator 228.
Members who can afford to buy all the shiny HE mods should have the same bragging rights as me with my "twinky" setup and it should never be a "pee pee" match
. I actually enjoy all things vaping and we need to see all of it on the forum, so He and non HE guys go nuts and tell us all about it.
I want to thank @Scouse45 for starting this thread
And all of you who have contributed your views - they have been excellent to read.
And thanks @Scouse45 for your follow up comments a few posts above.
Along the lines of what @Kuhlkatz says - one often tends to forget why we are here. Its really to discuss something we love. And to keep off the stinkies.
It's not about whether High End is better or worse than commercial. That can certainly be discussed and debated, but it certainly isn't our intention that if more HE mods appear in the threads, then your excitement for the Pico is not worth sharing or something you should feel ashamed of. Its not the device itself but rather the emotions that are more important.
But let me just remind everyone of the things we are trying to achieve (I am speaking for the Admin and Mod Team here) and for some of the longer standing members - hopefully for most of us too:
If a few so called "high enders" make wonderful posts of their glorious looking mods, don't feel shy or intimidated to share your experiences of your vaping devices. I have been on this forum for a long time and have shared my humble Evod and SubTank Mini probably more times than I can remember - and I have never felt prouder.
Be proud, enjoy the journey, no matter what.
And all of you who have contributed your views - they have been excellent to read.
And thanks @Scouse45 for your follow up comments a few posts above.
Along the lines of what @Kuhlkatz says - one often tends to forget why we are here. Its really to discuss something we love. And to keep off the stinkies.
It's not about whether High End is better or worse than commercial. That can certainly be discussed and debated, but it certainly isn't our intention that if more HE mods appear in the threads, then your excitement for the Pico is not worth sharing or something you should feel ashamed of. Its not the device itself but rather the emotions that are more important.
But let me just remind everyone of the things we are trying to achieve (I am speaking for the Admin and Mod Team here) and for some of the longer standing members - hopefully for most of us too:
- First and foremost, we are here to discuss what we love - vaping - in all its shapes and forms, high end, low end - mouth to lung, drippers, tanks, lung hits - DIY - and all.
- We want to help newer vapers to have a better vaping journey. That's why so many of us try very hard to help others out with their vaping issues, be it a wonky coil build or choosing a new mod. We also try very to be welcoming to newer members in the Intro thread.
- We want to educate folk on all things vaping related - this is a great platform for more experienced vapers to share some pearls of wisdom along the way. This includes things like battery safety, which we treat seriously.
- We want to paint vaping in a good light - while we are doing the above, we want to improve the overall image of vaping - and make it viewed more positively by all - if possible.
- And - we want to do all the above while having respect for each other, not offending or getting personal. And at the same time have a forum that is well maintained with good structure - and clear rules that are followed.
If a few so called "high enders" make wonderful posts of their glorious looking mods, don't feel shy or intimidated to share your experiences of your vaping devices. I have been on this forum for a long time and have shared my humble Evod and SubTank Mini probably more times than I can remember - and I have never felt prouder.
Be proud, enjoy the journey, no matter what.
100% agree @Silver we mustn't forget that we here for all vapers... a year ago when I joined this was a warm welcoming forum where people aren't afraid to ask the stupid questions and learn.
My perception and imho that has changed and I am seeing a lot less of the intro and basic vape chats- the last thing we want to do is alienate folk. Previously a normal atty new product post would last forever, look at the sm25 thread, today it's not happening.
I get HE vs non HE is emotive, so is clone vs auth. Honestly I miss the chit chat the forum used to have about the normal stuff that everyone uses. Yes we have the threads abt the predator and kylin etc but it just feels different.
Sometimes I think what would I feel if I joined today... and sometimes I think if new vapers think we a bunch of pretentious folk. If I joined today my reaction would not be the same like a year ago.
Disagree, thumbs down me guys but it's just my 0,02 ohms worth.
My perception and imho that has changed and I am seeing a lot less of the intro and basic vape chats- the last thing we want to do is alienate folk. Previously a normal atty new product post would last forever, look at the sm25 thread, today it's not happening.
I get HE vs non HE is emotive, so is clone vs auth. Honestly I miss the chit chat the forum used to have about the normal stuff that everyone uses. Yes we have the threads abt the predator and kylin etc but it just feels different.
Sometimes I think what would I feel if I joined today... and sometimes I think if new vapers think we a bunch of pretentious folk. If I joined today my reaction would not be the same like a year ago.
Disagree, thumbs down me guys but it's just my 0,02 ohms worth.
@Silver i completely agree with you. most of the people here is here because of the mutual love of vaping. I think one of the issues is that recently there is a perception amongst us plebs on the forum that the holy high horse alliance looks down and berates the clone commoners. But lets not say anything untowards any HE or Authentic items.
Some holy army members of whom i might add owned and sold clones in the past.
As a said each to their own and its a open forum.
Just an observation , I might be completely out of line of course.
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