My journey into temperature control

[n0ugh7_zw]

Afternoon Vapers & Vapettes
I'm going to chronicle my explorations with temperature control. It might be helpful for people wanting to get into it, or for people having issues with it.

So far the only temp sensing mod I have is a 40W flask clone for VK. I've not used an authentic DNA40 or one of those new fangled SX based devices.

So here's where I'm at with it, so far.

I'm using a nickel OCC coil in my Subtank Mini it says 0.15 ohm on the coil. But it actually reads between 0.11-0.19 on my mod (obviously I'm not talking about when its hot, all variances are when its cold).

I'm running it at 22.5W with a temp limit of 420F. For the most part its really awesome, much better flavour than a regular kanthal 0.5 ohm OCC.

That said, there are some dodgy things that happen.

1.) Occasionally, the mod will come out of temp control mode, and will fire the coil at 22.5W without any temperature protection. (usually taking the atty off, and putting it back on sorts this) Being able to manually force it to fire in temp control mode, would be pretty sweet.

2.) When you put the atty back on, after refilling, or dealing with dodgy thing number 1, above. It'll ask you if its a new coil, or the same old coil. Logic would tell you to choose the old coil option. But when you do that, it starts behaving like a over protective granny, fires at 10W and below, and after 2-3 hits, it'll start firing at between 1 and 3W. So, not usable.

Instead you have to choose the "New Coil" option every time. Which kinda makes me wonder, if its using the resistance change in the coil as it gets hotter to work out the temperature, when you tell it "New Coil" all bets are off on the temperature control being accurate, right?

That all said, the Vape on it is really good. I'm going to do some experiments building some nickel coils in some RDA's and see if maybe its a issue with the OCC coils, or if its and issue with the mod itself.

Input from anyone else with temperature control mods, would be awesome!

 

[n0ugh7_zw]

Update 002
Built a nickel coil in my Lemo 2 28AWG Nickel 200 (I lost count after 12 wraps ) 3.5mm ID worked out to 0.15 ohms. so according to Steam-Engine its 14.48 wraps.

Running it at 23.5W with the Temp limit set to 380F, during a 3 second pull it only gets up to around 260F. But, the flavour and vapor are really good. so it's kinda wonky, though its performing like a champ, because i put way too much cotton in to the build, and its not giving me any dry hits. I'm using 80/20 juice.

I'm switching back to the Nickel OCC coil in my Subtank Mini. I think I'm starting to get an understanding of this. Paying attention to the numbers, isn't what its about. its about the feel of it.

 

[free3dom]

Unfortunately with the cloned versions of temp control boards you do have to put up with a lot of crap from them. This is very new technology and even the authentic devices have some quirks which the creators are constantly working on - so you can just imagine how many issues there will be with a 1:1 copy of a circuit board of which the cloners have zero understanding

Best advice, don't judge a technology by it's clones.

The authentic devices, in particular the newer DNAs and the YIHI based ones are spectacular and have none (or very few) of the issues you are experiencing. But even then this technology is ever evolving which is why, if you have a choice, opt for one of the YiHi based devices since they are firmware upgradable

That all said, if the vape is good and you don't get dry hits then obviously it's working...in the same way that a bicycle can get you from point A to point B same as a sports car - but the ride is not quite as smooth

 

[Silver]

Nice chronicle @n0ugh7_zw
Interesting to read

 

[Rob Fisher]

Best advice, don't judge a technology by it's clones.

Great advice and right on the button! The SX Mini works like a dream!

 

[n0ugh7_zw]

@free3dom @Rob Fisher @Silver it's been a long time gents.

To be honest, it really isn't the new technology. Thats what companies who really F***ed the cat would want you to think (Like Evolv). Temperature sensors have been in existence for a long time now. Thats really what is going on when you get down to it. The wattage changing as a result of the resistance changing. is nothing more than values being pulled out of a conversion chart.

When its laid out like that, people who forked out good money to Evolv might be a wee bit tense. So they have no choice but to say "This is mighty cutting edge technology, and its really massively complex and difficult".

That all said. The SX Mini is nice. But its mini, a single 18650 won't keep up with me. The price is also a major turn off. Maybe an IPV4, but i'm not too keen on how it looks. So for now, the clone flask is the best option.

I'd not buy an authentic flask, or any of the authentic western made mods. Buying that stuff, for me at least, is supporting a foolish and greedy mindset, that doesn't have its customers at heart. I'd prefer not to support that.

What looks like the best bet for me, though it pains me to say so (anyone who's paid attention to me, knows I'm not a Joyetech fan) is the eVic VT. Good form factor, lots of flexibility. 5000mAh and 60W, and the best part is that its $100.00.

and for the record. this clone, which is a copy of the small screen DNA40, is a much better stab at being a DNA40, than the thing that Evolv actually tried releasing to the public, initially.

I'm going through this whole thing of putting my impressions and experiences with the clone, specifically because information on them isn't abundant. The price point being what it is, more people are going to use the clone anyway. So hopefully it'll be useful to a wider spectrum of people.

 

[free3dom]

So in the same way as the microchip which has been around for a few decades means that no new chips which improve on it is cutting edge? Or the internal combustion engine which has been around even longer, and yet somehow they are still finding ways to improve on that design as well

Technology is ever evolving by those who design, think about, and generally tinker with it - not by those who take it from someone and copy it without any idea of how it works. If there were no authentic devices, there would be no clones - logic 101

Just because a technology exists does not mean that newer versions of it is not cutting edge - especially when it is being used for an entirely new application such as vaporising e-liquid in this case. Reading temperature is just one part of the puzzle.

I'm also curious what you are basing your negative views of the evolv chips on - have you owned any of them and had bad experiences?

Now I'm not trying to bash your views on authentic vs clone here...that's your business. But how can something that was blindly copied be better than the thing it was copied from - the logic just does not hold up

But to each their own...I was just trying to say that your experiences with a cloned device might not be fully representative of "temperature control" - especially now that there are low cost alternatives (such as the IPV4) widely available (and with much improved software), basically negating the need for cloned devices

Unfortunately with technology, using older versions makes many observations redundant as they may already have addressed those issues in newer iterations.

As a review of temperature control in regards to your particular device this information you provide is quite useful though

 

[n0ugh7_zw]

Its a thermostat. we already had VV/VW devices. The scope of these boards specifications, especially in these applications is way smaller than something like a internal combustion engine.

Why do you assume, they had no idea of how it works? It's not possible to copy something without understanding it, and they're not stupid. I bring you back to the point, that their first outing with this technology is more usable, than those who pioneered it. Granted they are standing on the shoulders of other peoples work. But facts are facts, it works, it doesn't go spastic like early DNA40 boards did.

If the guys who make authentic stuff, were more open minded, there would be far fewer clones. The Chinese companies, are actually not the problem in this equation.

Why am I singling out Evolv? Because, I've read and seen lots of stuff about DNA40 problems, which means they didn't test the stuff properly before releasing it. Which is pretty incompetent.

How do you blindly copy something? That seems kinda hard?

What I meant about this clone being better than the first DNA40 boards released, is that the Chinese, instead of simply copying what was already there. Made improvements to it. It's not an isolated case. Many mech mods, RTA's and RDA's have been cloned and improved by the Chinese (Orchid, Cherry bomber, kayfun, etc...)

People seem to assume that because the Chinese copy stuff, because they're stupid, or are in some way incapable. That just isn't the case. Who invented vaping? Sub-ohm clearomizers? Cheap, safe regulated boxes, with internal hassle free batteries? Who makes the gear cheap enough for it to stand a chance of being adopted as a mainstream thing?

There are strong Chinese companies that don't make clones (UD, Joyetech, eLeaf, Kangertech, Aspire, etc...). The smaller ones have no choice but to make clones, in order to generate enough capital to start making their own authentic stuff (EHPRO, ToBeCo, Infinite, Wotofo, etc...). Besides with the prices real authentic stuff goes for, its like dangling a big mac in front of a starving homeless man. Whats he going to do?

Anyway point taken, I'll bash the west less.

This is meant to be about good vapor

 

[Silver]

Now with the clone versus authentic discussion out the way, please continue with your temp control chronicles @n0ugh7_zw !

 

[n0ugh7_zw]

Going to have a go doing a nickel build in an RDA. Did my Freakshow Mini last night. but even 12 wraps of 26g nickel around a 3.5mm ID was too low for the mod to fire (0.08 ohms). Damned shame, because it was such a pretty coil too.

A useful little side note. A Kuro coiler type thingy, makes it pretty damned easy to make nice tight nickel coils. Wrapping it like on a screw driver is a bit of a pain.

That said... a 3.5mm ID coil with 14 wraps of 26g, is a pretty damned large coil. Going to have to use 28g

 

[Silver]

Going to have a go doing a nickel build in an RDA. Did my Freakshow Mini last night. but even 12 wraps of 26g nickel around a 3.5mm ID was too low for the mod to fire (0.08 ohms). Damned shame, because it was such a pretty coil too.

A useful little side note. A Kuro coiler type thingy, makes it pretty damned easy to make nice tight nickel coils. Wrapping it like on a screw driver is a bit of a pain.

That said... a 3.5mm ID coil with 14 wraps of 26g, is a pretty damned large coil. Going to have to use 28g

I thought the nickel coils for temp sensing were supposed to be spaced?
Are yours compressed?

 

[n0ugh7_zw]

I thought the nickel coils for temp sensing were supposed to be spaced?
Are yours compressed?

I'm not 100% to be honest. I haven't read anything definitive. I've built compressed and spaced that have both worked.

I've got a spaced 28g nickel build in my derringer now. Working really well. But by the same token, the build thats working in my Lemo 2 is a 28g compressed coil. In both cases my temp limit is 380F

On the face of it, I think that mods that let you use titanium will be much easier, since the resistance of titanium wire is much higher, so its more like building with Kanthal or Nichrome. I think it may also be stiffer, than nickel. Nickel is really soft, it feels like a strand of copper.

Ok, I've learnt another trick. You need to make sure that on your first pull, from telling the mod that its a new coil, you pull really hard to make sure that the coil is getting a good amount of air, otherwise it'll throttle the wattage, and it'll skew the temperature reading.

What I did with the derringer is i popped the top cap off, and blew hard on the build for its first fire. Now its running like a champ.

 

[shabbar]

Im stuck between a rock and a hard place , theres the pre order of the evic vt and the sx mini , im not too sure which to get . i see the evic uses titanium and nickel where as with the sx uses only nickel ? i stand to be corrected there .

seems like temp limiting / sensing devices are the way forward

 

[free3dom]

Im stuck between a rock and a hard place , theres the pre order of the evic vt and the sx mini , im not too sure which to get . i see the evic uses titanium and nickel where as with the sx uses only nickel ? i stand to be corrected there .

seems like temp limiting / sensing devices are the way forward

The latest SX firmware update adds Ti support...that's the advantage with the YiHi devices, software upgradable

I'm note sure if this is true for the Evic devices - and TBH I'd wait before jumping on that bandwagon. It's a new and (unproven) temp sensing device - best to wait and see first. The SX on the other hand has proven itself to be one of the best temp sensing devices to date. You can't go wrong with it

 

[Andre]

The latest SX firmware update adds Ti support...that's the advantage with the YiHi devices, software upgradable

I'm note sure if this is true for the Evic devices - and TBH I'd wait before jumping on that bandwagon. It's a new and (unproven) temp sensing device - best to wait and see first. The SX on the other hand has proven itself to be one of the best temp sensing devices to date. You can't go wrong with it

+ 1 on this advice, @shabbar, but bear in mind that the Evic is substantially cheaper.

 

[n0ugh7_zw]

TBH, i think waiting a month or 2 is your best bet. I think the eVic VT, will turn out to be the iStick 50W of the temperature game. If that turns out to be the case, then I think it'll be a significantly better value product than the SX Mini.

Also the likelihood of the eVic VT having upgradable firmware is pretty high, Joyetech did that kinda thing as far back as the eVic Supreme.

This temperature control, isn't a day and night thing. So you don't need to feel pressured to hop on the gravy train.

That all said, the preliminary impressions on the eVic VT are that its a sold box, that does what it says on the box, no hassles or glitches.

 

[free3dom]

+ 1 on this advice, @shabbar, but bear in mind that the Evic is substantially cheaper.

That's very true. The SX is quite expensive, and perhaps not the best first temp sensing device - you may not take to it and waste a lot of money in the process

For cheaper I'd still rather recommend the IPV4 - also running a YiHi board (albeit a slightly different one), and also software upgradable

 

[n0ugh7_zw]

Just keep in mind that the build quality on the IPV4 is a bit sketchy. It's durable and all, it just looks a bit shabby, especially on the top of the device and along the seams.

 

[Yusuf Cape Vaper]

Just keep in mind that the build quality on the IPV4 is a bit sketchy. It's durable and all, it just looks a bit shabby, especially on the top of the device and along the seams.

The IPv4 is actually really solid. I love mine. I don't think it's sketchy or anything


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Yiannaki]

Just keep in mind that the build quality on the IPV4 is a bit sketchy. It's durable and all, it just looks a bit shabby, especially on the top of the device and along the seams.

Based off videos etc I also didn't think it seemed very well built.

Since then I have held and used @Paulie's and I like it a lot. I would say build quality is on par with or slightly better than something like a sig 100 which was by no means shabby.

My only issue ... the damn screen!

 

[shabbar]

Based off videos etc I also didn't think it seemed very well built.

Since then I have held and used @Paulie's and I like it a lot. I would say build quality is on par with or slightly better than something like a sig 100 which was by no means shabby.

My only issue ... the damn screen!

Whats the fault on the screen?

 

[n0ugh7_zw]

it has a mirror coating, that makes it pretty hard to see.

 

[n0ugh7_zw]

This is a busurdo video, on the invader mini, the board in it behaves identically to my flask clone.



Short version, its actually pretty good.

 

[Mario]

great post @n0ugh7_zw
Ive been using the Vapeshake rdna40 for almost 2 months and building at 0.12ohms, 28g Pure Nickel, 6 wraps @ 460F/30W using it on the Delta II ,Subtank Mini and for me it seems the flavor is so much better than Kanthal (totally subjective).

I dont think i will go back to Kanthal .....lol

 

[free3dom]

This is a busurdo video, on the invader mini, the board in it behaves identically to my flask clone.



Short version, its actually pretty good.

That's great news!

I apologize for sidetracking your thread - my only intention was to inform you that some of the issues you were having are no longer issues on the newer updated devices. This stuff is improving on an almost daily basis, and the future is looking very "controlled"

In the end it does not matter what you use as long as you are enjoying the experience...and temp control is a whole new world for all of us