Hi Guys. Luckely it's so late so the actual debate will start in the morning. So I stumbled across the Billet Box clone, it immediately draw my attention as I am aware how difficult it is to lay your hands on a Authentic, and I went into Google land and find some interesting information. Almost all the Chinese vendors are sold out as I would expected, but geeez I just love reading the reviews. O yes there is a lot of 5 stars, for what? You guess right, for actually owing a Billet Box. Then the guys started to put it through the tests, and guess what? Then I start to see the 1 and 2 star ratings beginning to take the win. What was the problems they encountered? Leaks from the start, misfires, doors that rattle ohhhh and don't forget before you insert the battery you must bend the negative post a little bit, otherwise you might torn your battery wrap!!!! Man was I shocked! Now I went over to the actual Hellfire site and start reading reviews of customers who own the Authentic.... like our skipper @Rob Fisher, and I read just the opposite. No surprise for me. So I know money is king and the statement of " I am going to buy the clone and then I will decide if I am going to pay 200 dollars for an authentic " My friends then, you will never buy the authentic, trust me. If I had a bad experience with a device, I won't touch it again. So yes, my argument: To Clone or not to Clone. Good Night.
My vaping as with a lot of people started off with clones, through this my experience has shown me that clones are simply inferior products and as such I am busy working out all the clones I have and will not purchase another clone.
I'm a firm believer as with my tools, you buy once. I buy Snap-on tools cause they are quality and will last me a life time ,I place the same thought process on my vape gear as with anything.
You could also go the high road and say you would rather support the OEM but for me it's all about the quality of the product.
I'm a firm believer as with my tools, you buy once. I buy Snap-on tools cause they are quality and will last me a life time ,I place the same thought process on my vape gear as with anything.
You could also go the high road and say you would rather support the OEM but for me it's all about the quality of the product.
I believe in quality... yes I can buy a clone for half the price but I can bet my bottom dollar it's not gonna last even half the life span
My motto is buy authentic and enjoy the experience...its like buying a pirate movie...will never be the same!
I will buy a clone to test flavour of the product and then buy the real deal
I have only bought 2 clones - goon and ol16...within a week I bought authentic cos I loved them
My motto is buy authentic and enjoy the experience...its like buying a pirate movie...will never be the same!
I will buy a clone to test flavour of the product and then buy the real deal
I have only bought 2 clones - goon and ol16...within a week I bought authentic cos I loved them
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I buy clones to try out new products. If it's worth it, then I'll buy authentic. I don't want to spend R1500 on an atty and then find I don't like it. So, to start out with, clones are fine and there are some good ones out there. I have a Hastur V2 clone and pretty happy with it. I might not even buy the authentic. I'll decide when I've used it a little bit longer.
Thanks for posting this @Petrus
For me I had quite a bad experience with a clone early on in my vaping journey. I had a clone of a Kayfun 3. I spent so much time figuring it out and what not but in the end I just could not prevent leaks. I am embarrassed at the time I spent trying to get it to work perfectly. It even dumped a tankful of Bowdens Mate in my car seat after a vape meet on the way home. I was so upset that I retired it and vowed never to touch a Kayfun again, ever.
I didnt really understand clones vs authentics then. It was around early 2014. All i knew was that anything made that was called Kayfun with a logo of a SVM somewhere on it was crap.
Then about a year later i discovered unbelievable flavour on a Lemo1. Its chimney section is similar to the Kayfun. I started doing more research and tried to understand what was going on.
I believe my bad Kayfun clone experience altered my vape journey for quite a long time. Only recently have I realised what must have happened.
So i am pleased to say i finally got a KF5 and V3 mini authentic because Throat Punch got them in. I have to still try them. I hope they dont leak. Lol
But the point is that clones entirely destroyed my impression of the Kayfun for a long time. What a pity for what seems to be a very solid and much loved "iconic" piece of vape gear.
For me I had quite a bad experience with a clone early on in my vaping journey. I had a clone of a Kayfun 3. I spent so much time figuring it out and what not but in the end I just could not prevent leaks. I am embarrassed at the time I spent trying to get it to work perfectly. It even dumped a tankful of Bowdens Mate in my car seat after a vape meet on the way home. I was so upset that I retired it and vowed never to touch a Kayfun again, ever.
I didnt really understand clones vs authentics then. It was around early 2014. All i knew was that anything made that was called Kayfun with a logo of a SVM somewhere on it was crap.
Then about a year later i discovered unbelievable flavour on a Lemo1. Its chimney section is similar to the Kayfun. I started doing more research and tried to understand what was going on.
I believe my bad Kayfun clone experience altered my vape journey for quite a long time. Only recently have I realised what must have happened.
So i am pleased to say i finally got a KF5 and V3 mini authentic because Throat Punch got them in. I have to still try them. I hope they dont leak. Lol
But the point is that clones entirely destroyed my impression of the Kayfun for a long time. What a pity for what seems to be a very solid and much loved "iconic" piece of vape gear.
I started my 'enthusiast' journey on clones, and it really wasn't a great experience and slowly working out the clones from my collection. The differences may be subtle, but they are there and the passion for the product is just not there with a clone
I personally own a authentic billet box with another on its way, I can tell you this much. NOT 1 ISSUE. Its true its very very hard to get 1, but there is a reason for it. Quality, like most HE stuff, that's what you are paying for. Clones are for the people who want 1 and no matter how hard they try cannot get the authentic cos it sells out in a matter minutes. Frustrations come in and wham they buy the clone. While there some positive reviews of the clone there will be just as many negatives. Yes you are still paying a premium for a clone (Not as much for the authentic) but at the end of the day you will face some issues. And these issues are what's going to put you off the product. I have made this mistakes many times with other clones, Mods & Tanks, & That is why I from the day I got my skyline I swore I would never buy another clone again. I rather buy authentic or not have it all.
Adopting a cloners mindset, I would believe that the main goal of developing a clone is to make something that looks the same as an original. Functioning comes a rather lonely second if this is your goal. So for something rather simplistic such as a glass tank section or simple atty like the Subtank Mini, the clone could be indistinguishable from the original in both looks and function.
More complex items are a different case however. Items such as the example Billet box or the latest range of more advanced atomizers contain little design and build details which a cloner would overlook and just not bother with. It are these little details that give the authentic item their unique characteristics. Even if not containing any noticeable flaws, these items will never perform as the original.
In conclusion, if one is of a Top Billing mindset and looks/impressions are all that matters, clones are great. However, for the function over form crowd, original is the only way to go.
Regards
More complex items are a different case however. Items such as the example Billet box or the latest range of more advanced atomizers contain little design and build details which a cloner would overlook and just not bother with. It are these little details that give the authentic item their unique characteristics. Even if not containing any noticeable flaws, these items will never perform as the original.
In conclusion, if one is of a Top Billing mindset and looks/impressions are all that matters, clones are great. However, for the function over form crowd, original is the only way to go.
Regards
I get the quality of authentic mods or systems (Billet Box) vs Clones , you want something that lasts. I still own my first Reo and she's purring along nicely (with a clone on top 
).
RD(T)A's not so much , it's a piece of cylindrical metal shaped and drilled device etc to create a certain airflow. Ja blah blah all the 'research' that goes into it , whatever the original is probably just a 'clone' of another authentic. I am quite happy with my SXK Hadaly clones , so much in fact I have another two on the way (for 1/8th of the price of an authentic). Other clones (the OL16's come to mind) is a hit and miss , my Velocity V3 clone (ALL the negative posts are just a tad higher than the positive so the topcap doesn't quite sit flush. Does it bother me yes , will I buy an authentic no....). I still want to challenge anyone to do the blindfold flavor test between a clone and an authentic , video it and see if the difference can be distinguished (I'm still waiting on someone to take me up )
P.S for those trolls , I do own plenty authentic gear so by no means do I condone Cloners or defend them , it's a matter of economics for me.
). RD(T)A's not so much , it's a piece of cylindrical metal shaped and drilled device etc to create a certain airflow. Ja blah blah all the 'research' that goes into it , whatever the original is probably just a 'clone' of another authentic. I am quite happy with my SXK Hadaly clones , so much in fact I have another two on the way (for 1/8th of the price of an authentic). Other clones (the OL16's come to mind) is a hit and miss , my Velocity V3 clone (ALL the negative posts are just a tad higher than the positive so the topcap doesn't quite sit flush. Does it bother me yes , will I buy an authentic no....). I still want to challenge anyone to do the blindfold flavor test between a clone and an authentic , video it and see if the difference can be distinguished (I'm still waiting on someone to take me up
) P.S for those trolls , I do own plenty authentic gear so by no means do I condone Cloners or defend them , it's a matter of economics for me.
I think that the big thing is to remember it's a clone. I have bought clone tanks and RDAs to test them out. If you buy a clone you have to know that there's a big chance they will leak and the build quality will not be top notch.
It is because of the clones that I bought my authentic TM squared and Aria Sleeper.
Another plus is when you buy the authentic you've got some additional spares as well
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It is because of the clones that I bought my authentic TM squared and Aria Sleeper.
Another plus is when you buy the authentic you've got some additional spares as well
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@Daniel, totally agree with you that there are good clones out there. It's just that you only find out that a clone is good by purchasing it. If the result is negative the money was wasted and no saving but rather a loss occurred. Also the more complex the cloned original item, the more likely the clone will be "imperfect". Its a matter of probabilities and risks to me.I get the quality of authentic mods or systems (Billet Box) vs Clones , you want something that lasts. I still own my first Reo and she's purring along nicely (with a clone on top
RD(T)A's not so much , it's a piece of cylindrical metal shaped and drilled device etc to create a certain airflow. Ja blah blah all the 'research' that goes into it , whatever the original is probably just a 'clone' of another authentic. I am quite happy with my SXK Hadaly clones , so much in fact I have another two on the way (for 1/8th of the price of an authentic). Other clones (the OL16's come to mind) is a hit and miss , my Velocity V3 clone (ALL the negative posts are just a tad higher than the positive so the topcap doesn't quite sit flush. Does it bother me yes , will I buy an authentic no....). I still want to challenge anyone to do the blindfold flavor test between a clone and an authentic , video it and see if the difference can be distinguished (I'm still waiting on someone to take me up
P.S for those trolls , I do own plenty authentic gear so by no means do I condone Cloners or defend them , it's a matter of economics for me.
Regards
There's good clones & bad clones ...... roll the dice, life's a gamble. I've bought authentics the elite raved about - what load of crap they turned out to be, even the elite went quiet & next you know they are raving & pushing something else, so the dance floor goes round & round - people can be sheep - we just need the right sheep dog. I've got clones that do it for me & authentics that leak - expensive HE tanks for that matter. Today one mod/tank is the bees knees, then 1 of the gurus has a problem with it & bam, in 1 swift hissy fit & crying, they flip and ruin it for the rest & then, because you own one, you're an idiot. But this industry is driven 100% by hype and being fast evolving industry vaping is, clones will always be there & they will always serve their purpose.
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I get the quality of authentic mods or systems (Billet Box) vs Clones , you want something that lasts. I still own my first Reo and she's purring along nicely (with a clone on top
RD(T)A's not so much , it's a piece of cylindrical metal shaped and drilled device etc to create a certain airflow. Ja blah blah all the 'research' that goes into it , whatever the original is probably just a 'clone' of another authentic. I am quite happy with my SXK Hadaly clones , so much in fact I have another two on the way (for 1/8th of the price of an authentic). Other clones (the OL16's come to mind) is a hit and miss , my Velocity V3 clone (ALL the negative posts are just a tad higher than the positive so the topcap doesn't quite sit flush. Does it bother me yes , will I buy an authentic no....). I still want to challenge anyone to do the blindfold flavor test between a clone and an authentic , video it and see if the difference can be distinguished (I'm still waiting on someone to take me up
P.S for those trolls , I do own plenty authentic gear so by no means do I condone Cloners or defend them , it's a matter of economics for me.
@Daniel here is a blind test for you and a side by side comparison on a authentic Kayfun v5 and a sxk Kayfun V5 .
I relly love this video and feel its one of the most in depth honest reviews i have ever seen. Enjoy...
So watching the video posted above, it's pretty evident that some clones strive to actually fool people in to believing they are the real deal, not just to provide a pirate part. With that in mind, how do people feel about the guys who re-wrap batteries to imitate real brands?
Due to the danger, they should be drawn and quartered.
I can agree to an extend, I too buy clones but I also look real hard for the decent ones. Some clones are awesome, most aren't. As for crap authentics, I have never had one yet, all the authentic gear I've bought are epic in every way but then again, I only have a few authentics lol I dont do RTAs, I'm not the kind a guy to fiddle with fragile things so tanks are totally out of the question for me. I tend to stick to mechs and RDAs.
On a side note: I find that some people dont understand what they need versus what they want, for instance: Guy buys mech mod but loves big ass clapton coils, then bitches about "crappy mech performance", this guy is an utter tool in my eyes. Or the guy that buys a 14mm bf atty and wants to run big ass exotic coils in it and then says stupid shit like, "this thing is crap, needs more airflow" -- no you're stupid, your brain needs more airflow -_-
To the point... Nice brother....
You are 100% right brother.
Since ive gotten into squonking i now realise what ive been missing out on.
The best flavour in a convenient dripping (squonking) bottle.
Its absolutely amazing. My tube mechs are just a side attraction now.
I now realise all i need in my vaping life is one or two regulated mods (one with a rta for really lazy moments and one with a rda for sampling juice) and then a shyt load of sqonking mechs or squonking regulated boxes.
So far im enjoying squonk mechs because of knowing the bugger is gonna last me a lifetime.
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This topic will always draw controversy.My take is while I have more than a few clones almost all are of the RDA,RTA type. I have some that rival the authentic at a fraction of the price and some that are complete shit.If possible l try to buy 1:1 clones.Ihave only bought one mod clone and l wouldn't get anymore as I fail to see much quality in mod clones and IMO you get what you pay for with them.For example I watched some reviews on SX mini M class clones recently and though the mod was only 40 or 50 or so bucks they sort of looked similar but any other resemblance ended there.They didn't even support temperature control and could not be upgraded or modified on line.You would be better off spending that money on a Segeli or IPV 4you etc.and you'd get way more for your money plus some kind of warranty.
I love the Geek Vape guy ,get a kick out of his accent and humor plus he provides a service by comparisons such as this one.But after watching this video l can't justify the price difference.
Il start by saying iv been a vaper since early 2014. Kicked off with the china mall. Ego setup and some juice that came with it,i quickly. Needed more clouds and bought a mvp itazte from a forum member ,and then a hana modz clone 50 w not long after which was an amazing mod even compared to todays mods ,its style and versatility n ease of use was great until i craved a mech,then again it was a clone smpl copper which still serves me well as im typing this ,i understand the thing about supporting the original manufact9 but im disable and dont work bkz of my disability ,clones have afforded me the opportunity to experience many vape products i may have otherwise not been able to afford,so yes i will continue to support these companies because of this
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How would people feel about cheap rewrapped counterfeit batteries if they were as close to the performance of the original as the SXK is to the Kayfun5 in Geekay's review? If I had the choice of buying an original LG choc (15A 3000mAh 300 recharge cycles) for R180, or a counterfeit LG choc (14.8A 2950mAh 280 recharge cycles) for R60, which would I buy? My answer will make me blush so I plead the Fifth. It wouldn't be fair on the original battery developers like LG, Sony and Samsung. But will people care?
Of course, it's an incomplete analogy because most of the cost in batteries goes towards manufacturing, a very small % is for R&D. Original atty manufacturers will claim quite large R&D costs, which inflates the retail cost. The difference in price between a Kayfun5 and an SXK is certainly not warranted by any difference in materials or manufacturing costs.
It's a tough issue that extends into many other sectors. if GlaxoSmithKline develop a cancer treatment for R250k, with a huge chunk of that being R&D costs to develop the drug, should other companies be forbidden from developing generics that are much cheaper? On the one hand, companies that do essential R&D must be compensated for it. On the other, we don't want medicines or pharmaceutical products to be the preserve of the wealthy.
One might claim that vaping isn't quite as directly essential as medicines. But if we take the view that vaping is a miracle technology that can save a billion lives, is there not an imperative to make it as affordable as possible? And thence the same justification to allow clone atties as there is to allow clone "generics" in medicine? I don't have the answers to that. Just putting it out there for folks to consider.
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