Vape creation or kidney puncher wire?

[Mollie]

Hi all

As we know ni80 wire is not available at every vape shop and for us diy guys wire is kinda expensive if you can find
I even went on kidney puncher. com to see how is the stock there and low to nothing
So the search brought me to Vaperite
Their prices are very good and I can get what I want BUT, In my experience cheap is not always better

So now my question is what do you guys/ladies think of Vape creations wire? Will they give the same quality as KP or not?

Thanks

 

[Intuthu Kagesi]

In my opinion, it's all much of a muchness as so called specialist wire goes, as there are only a couple of handful people drawing wire out there.
South Africa in particular is known for it's high quality metals, (yes, wire too), and exports metals, (and wire), to most countries, (only to re-import repackaged "final" products )
These guys https://www.nockers.co.za, as just one example, have a minimum quantity of a 12Kg roll of wire ... Could you get enough people together, and wind it onto smaller reels?

 

[Rob Fisher]

I tested many of the fancy coils back in the day and just didn't get it... none of them was as good as my own round wire builds done with Kidney Puncher wire... and then I discovered The Coil Company coils and I picked up the phone right away to talk to Riaan and find out why his coils were so much better than any fancy coils I had tried before... it's the quality of the wire... and there are a few other coil makers around doing decent coils made from quality wire. So my 2c is the wire makes a MASSIVE difference!

 

[Intuthu Kagesi]

In my opinion, there's only one way to put this argument to bed ...
Is anyone prepared to provide enough material to run tests at a reputable lab, (Wits University Chem. Eng. Lab OK?) ... I'll gladly go ahead and get a few M students hungry for Noddy points to carry out a detailed study, and even oversee it.

I will agree that coil surface area has an effect on vape production, so any complex coil that increases surface area will have an effect on vape production, (anecdotally, a poor grade of metal with porosity would have a similar effect). Also;
As different alloys have different conductivity, (resistances in this context), per volume, which are based on their respective atomic weight. This would indeed affect vape production/watt for each alloy, however this could be compensated for very easily, by adjusting power levels accordingly with respect to physical vapour production, (flavour in this context), however it is no justification for a specific metal being better or worse than another with respect heating ability(ies)

As to the so called dangers of various metals and their oxides, lets bust that myth whilst we're about it, and start with Titanium; Titanium dioxide is naturally occurring, and sourced from Ilmenite, Rutile and Anatase and is processed with Carbon, to form Titanium metal.
Whilst inhaling LARGE amounts of Titanium dioxide, called "dust" in processing plants can cause a chest tightness, Titanium dioxide is used in roughly two thirds of all food pigments, most sunscreens and as a paint pigment.

Then to Nickel being "so dangerous" ... eish! ... (excluding the few that do have allergies to Nickel), Nickel and Chromium are used in almost all medical equipment, cutlery, crockery, utensils and tools today, ranging from 18 percent chromium, 8 percent nickel, and 25 percent chromium, 20 percent nickel, to 20 percent chromium, 35–60 percent nickel are employed where corrosion resistance is a major requirement, and even higher in engineering tools. The stainless steels, of which the 18-percent-chromium–8-percent-nickel variety is the best known, are widely employed where stain and corrosion resistance must be coupled with high strength. The largest single use of nickel is in the production of Stainless Steel, and vapers are OK with Stainless but not Nickel wire coils?

The great misnomer of Nickel is the compound nickel sulfate hexahydrate, which is employed in the electrolytic refining of nickel as well as in most nickel electroplating baths, and like all other carbonyls, it is indeed poisonous, however it in NOT Nickel, yet has given Nickel the bad reputation it has.
Nickel subsulfide, Ni3S2, is the nickel component of matte involved in pyrometallurgy, and along with Nickel oxide, NiO, they also are used in refining processes and also may be an end product too, however neither of them, nor Nickel itself are toxic!

 

[Rob Fisher]

@Intuthu Kagesi there is an easier way. Grab a decent Alien from The Coil Company, Lazy Panda, White Collar Coils or one of the other quality coil makers and then any cheap Chinese coils and wick them up and compare. The difference is noticeable.

 

[Mollie]

I tested many of the fancy coils back in the day and just didn't get it... none of them was as good as my own round wire builds done with Kidney Puncher wire... and then I discovered The Coil Company coils and I picked up the phone right away to talk to Riaan and find out why his coils were so much better than any fancy coils I had tried before... it's the quality of the wire... and there are a few other coil makers around doing decent coils made from quality wire. So my 2c is the wire makes a MASSIVE difference!

I think coil company is using only kidney puncher I'm only using KP at this stage
But also just wanna test vape creation to know what's the difference between them
Maybe it works maybe not only one way to find out

 

[Rob Fisher]

I think coil company is using only kidney puncher I'm only using KP at this stage
But also just wanna test vape creation to know what's the difference between them
Maybe it works maybe not only one way to find out

@The vaper 100% he only uses KP wire.

 

[Intuthu Kagesi]

@Intuthu Kagesi there is an easier way. Grab a decent Alien from The Coil Company, Lazy Panda, White Collar Coils or one of the other quality coil makers and then any cheap Chinese coils and wick them up and compare. The difference is noticeable.
View attachment 221143

I'm sure your method will work up to a point, however it retains a subjective element, which I'm keen to either prove, (or disprove), as I'm a firm believer in the engineering maxim of; "if it can't be measured, it doesn't matter"
Let's find out exactly what it is that makes some coils less equal than others

 

[Rob Fisher]

I'm sure your method will work up to a point, however it retains a subjective element, which I'm keen to either prove, (or disprove), as I'm a firm believer in the engineering maxim of; "if it can't be measured, it doesn't matter"
Let's find out exactly what it is that makes some coils less equal than others

No argument there... agree fully. I'm just not a technical type and have to go with the simple testing options... I would be really interested in a scientific test!

 

[Mollie]

No argument there... agree fully. I'm just not a technical type and have to go with the simple testing options... I would be really interested in a scientific test!

I'm going to get some vape creation wire and do my alien builds and test them

 

[Mollie]

I'm going to get some vape creation wire and do my alien builds and test them

Spoke to vaperite now and asked them who supplies them the wire and it's from China so I'm not so sure about it

 

[Intuthu Kagesi]

Spoke to vaperite now and asked them who supplies them the wire and it's from China so I'm not so sure about it

Food for thought here ... China are generally a little "naughty" with their various steels, and are well known for erm ... "supplementing" same with carbon and silicon, to which the former would give it more porosity whilst also making it a harder, (more brittle), steel ... they also draw steel wires faster than other countries, which leaves a microscopic finish not unlike a human hair, creating an illusion of a thicker wire, however this discrepancy "layer" contains even more porosities.
That said, their drawn wire should have a greater surface area by virtue of the above, and in theory ... should make for better vape coils, albeit that they are fractionally thinner in gauge.

 

[Intuthu Kagesi]

I'm going to get some vape creation wire and do my alien builds and test them

Some more food for thought ...
Most companies will supply small samples for test purposes, either for free or at vastly reduced rates ... Why not ask one of the larger boys for a few samples, (say +-100 grams?), and make up a few test coils ... my feeling is that you'll probably be impressed enough to consider buying 12KG or larger rolls, albeit that your test will still have a level of subjectivity to it.

 

[Mollie]

Some more food for thought ...
Most companies will supply small samples for test purposes, either for free or at vastly reduced rates ... Why not ask one of the larger boys for a few samples, (say +-100 grams?), and make up a few test coils ... my feeling is that you'll probably be impressed enough to consider buying 12KG or larger rolls, albeit that your test will still have a level of subjectivity to it.

Will check them out thanks

 

[Intuthu Kagesi]

Will check them out thanks

Please let us all know how the testing goes too

 

[Puff the Magic Dragon]

I am in complete agreement with @Intuthu Kagesi that "if it can't be measured, it doesn't matter". The only problem is that the end result will always come down to taste. Even if the "scientific" test indicated that the more porous cheap metal coil should provide better results the only way to test this would be through subjective taste tests.

It seems to me that the proponents of the so-called fancy coils claim two things namely better taste and longer lasting coils. It doesn't logically follow that a supposedly purer coil wire would produce superior taste. Truly pure water could potentially kill you due to its hypotonic properties. It is, therefore, purer and more expensive than bottled water but not better.

When it comes to purer coils it would be similarly likely that the taste produced could be the same or worse. The only evidence we have is that some people say that fancy coils using "purer" wire produce a better flavour. We cant even provide an estimated percentage of the "better" taste. Are we talking 5% or 30% ?

If it is of the order of 5% it would be of no interest to me. If it's 30% you would have my attention.

You can correct me if I am wrong about the year but I think that in 2019 The Coil Company had a 50% special for Black Friday. If I remember correctly I bought 16 coils. This was my opportunity to test the claim that they produced better flavour. I used them in several builds immediately. To be honest my initial impression was that they tasted better than the Coilology coils that I had been using. As is quite natural, one soon gets used to the taste you are experiencing from a particular Atty. At some point, I installed another Coilology coil in an RTA. It immediately tasted "better" than the Coil Company coils. Perhaps this was because it was a new coil compared to a week old coil or because it just tasted a bit different or because it is an inherent belief that I hold that something new is better than something old.

What I am getting to is that, for me, even if there was a positive improvement (and I'm not certain of this) it was definitely not enough of a difference for me to come to a meaningful conclusion. I have bought and made many coils since I bought The Coil Company coils and have used up the last of them last week. If they had produced meaningfully better flavour I would certainly have continued to buy them. It would make good logical and financial sense. We buy new RTAs and RDAs because they supposedly produce "better" flavour than the ones we own. The improvement often ranges from minuscule to a few percentage points. If "better" coils could offer a 10-30 % improvement their purchase would be a no-brainer.

IMHO it all boils down to personal preference. Almost all vapers disagree on the best cotton, juice, atties etc. I believe that coils also fall into this grey area. If any of these items could be shown to be objectively superior all vapers could be convinced to use them or at the very least accept the fact that they are superior.

 

[Mollie]

OK waiting for the response email from Nocker on prices for the nichrome wire
This should be interesting

 

[Intuthu Kagesi]

I am in complete agreement with @Intuthu Kagesi that "if it can't be measured, it doesn't matter". The only problem is that the end result will always come down to taste. Even if the "scientific" test indicated that the more porous cheap metal coil should provide better results the only way to test this would be through subjective taste tests.

It seems to me that the proponents of the so-called fancy coils claim two things namely better taste and longer lasting coils. It doesn't logically follow that a supposedly purer coil wire would produce superior taste. Truly pure water could potentially kill you due to its hypotonic properties. It is, therefore, purer and more expensive than bottled water but not better.

When it comes to purer coils it would be similarly likely that the taste produced could be the same or worse. The only evidence we have is that some people say that fancy coils using "purer" wire produce a better flavour. We cant even provide an estimated percentage of the "better" taste. Are we talking 5% or 30% ?

If it is of the order of 5% it would be of no interest to me. If it's 30% you would have my attention.

You can correct me if I am wrong about the year but I think that in 2019 The Coil Company had a 50% special for Black Friday. If I remember correctly I bought 16 coils. This was my opportunity to test the claim that they produced better flavour. I used them in several builds immediately. To be honest my initial impression was that they tasted better than the Coilology coils that I had been using. As is quite natural, one soon gets used to the taste you are experiencing from a particular Atty. At some point, I installed another Coilology coil in an RTA. It immediately tasted "better" than the Coil Company coils. Perhaps this was because it was a new coil compared to a week old coil or because it just tasted a bit different or because it is an inherent belief that I hold that something new is better than something old.

What I am getting to is that, for me, even if there was a positive improvement (and I'm not certain of this) it was definitely not enough of a difference for me to come to a meaningful conclusion. I have bought and made many coils since I bought The Coil Company coils and have used up the last of them last week. If they had produced meaningfully better flavour I would certainly have continued to buy them. It would make good logical and financial sense. We buy new RTAs and RDAs because they supposedly produce "better" flavour than the ones we own. The improvement often ranges from minuscule to a few percentage points. If "better" coils could offer a 10-30 % improvement their purchase would be a no-brainer.

IMHO it all boils down to personal preference. Almost all vapers disagree on the best cotton, juice, atties etc. I believe that coils also fall into this grey area. If any of these items could be shown to be objectively superior all vapers could be convinced to use them or at the very least accept the fact that they are superior.

I can't say I disagree with your post at all, to which my first post in this thread is pretty much still my standpoint; "In my opinion, it's all much of a muchness as so called specialist wire goes".
I would nonetheless like to know which is/are the popular vs. unpopular wire(s), only because I'd like to then find a scientific reason and plausible answer as apposed an anecdotal knee jerk to the latest marketing hype. We may indeed find that cheap porous wire is for the way forward for flavour bangers, and the 'shnoeps' that want 5+ years of service out of a set of coils take on some hardened polished unobtanium coils?
At this stage It doesn't make any sense to me, and to quote another engineering maxim; "If doesn't make sense, then you don't have all the facts" ... I clearly need some facts as apposed anecdotal narrative, and would love to be able to tie that back to individual(s) preference(s).

 

[Intuthu Kagesi]

OK waiting for the response email from Nocker on prices for the nichrome wire
This should be interesting

In the (unlikely) event they turn you down, remember that there are a number of SA specialist wire producers, and they're hungry for business at the mo', particularly so in that this is a new market for SA manufacturers

 

[Mollie]

In the (unlikely) event they turn you down, remember that there are a number of SA specialist wire producers, and they're hungry for business at the mo', particularly so in that this is a new market for SA manufacturers

I told the sales lady I'm using it to make coils and she asked for vape so ja she asked my email and she said she will quote 26ga to 28ga
Let's wait and see

 

[Resistance]

I'm going to get some vape creation wire and do my alien builds and test them

Have you tried coil master wire?

 

[Resistance]

Please let us all know how the testing goes too

And the different effects of different temperatures on wires, till where it doesn't taste good or just right to taste good or just awfull.

 

[Hakhan]

Hi all

As we know ni80 wire is not available at every vape shop and for us diy guys wire is kinda expensive if you can find
I even went on kidney puncher. com to see how is the stock there and low to nothing
So the search brought me to Vaperite
Their prices are very good and I can get what I want BUT, In my experience cheap is not always better

So now my question is what do you guys/ladies think of Vape creations wire? Will they give the same quality as KP or not?

Thanks

Check out vapehyper, they have a sale on KP wire,
https://vapehyper.co.za/collections/coils-wires-wicks-south-africa

 

[Mollie]

Check out vapehyper, they have a sale on KP wire,
https://vapehyper.co.za/collections/coils-wires-wicks-south-africa

I buy from them but no stock for a few months now

 

[Mollie]

And the different effects of different temperatures on wires, till where it doesn't taste good or just right to taste good or just awfull.

This is one of the reasons why I don't do TC