What Can We Do To Keep On Vaping In Rsa?

[Vaper Rising]

I hear your anger and I love your war-cry. (And you write very well, BTW!) Actually, I've had nothing but positive feedback here in the Cape from the many non-smokers in front of whom I vape and to whom I have introduced the notion - literally all over. They are far readier to embrace this than the ignorant rookers who challenge me daily with utter crap. Two weeks ago some woman (ex-vaper) said her uncle had died from water on the lungs because he had stopped smoking and started vaping. "The GP said so." On Friday night I had a fight with an obnoxious guy who smokes 50-a-day and told me that "It's been proven that vaping encourages 13-year-olds to smoke." This enrages and galvanises me into action. If I could, I woulI have been a missionary (even when smoking) for the cause, but I promise you that we need literature ... we need a production to come out of SA.

@JakesSA i think why the success rate of quitting smoking and starting to vape is so high, it's more of swop a unhealthy habit for a healthier one. Most ppl who do that as a stepping stone to stop smoking find themselves enjoying the vaping so much that they dont see the need to take the next step, they feel allot better, they smell better, ppl around them treat them better.

 

[Vaper Rising]

Of course we must agree that vaping is replacing one addiction with another. Perhaps that is what bothers people. But what astounds me is the ignorance of the masses. Tonight, I checked a Facebook post to me that said, "I wouldn't touch that shit with a bargepole. At least I know I'm smoking a natural product. Not something man-made." Huh? Say whaaaaaaaaaaaat?!!!

 

[kimbo]

Like Marilyn Manson say .. You cant see the forest from the trees .. you cant smell your own shit on your knees. I think that is the life of a smoker, how many here can tell you that they did not know that a cigarette stinks so much, that smoke takes over your whole life without you knowing it. It is like the cigarette / smoke conditions you to just see what you wanna see, smell what you wanna smell. And when you make that decision to start vaping your eye's open and you see/smell for the first time. You cant believe that was the life you led by choice, most of us can tell you their own story of how awful that find cigarettes now.

 

[Vaper Rising]

Like Marilyn Manson say .. You cant see the forest from the trees .. you cant smell your own shit on your knees. I think that is the life of a smoker, how many here can tell you that they did not know that a cigarette stinks so much, that smoke takes over your whole life without you knowing it. It is like the cigarette / smoke conditions you to just see what you wanna see, smell what you wanna smell. And when you make that decision to start vaping your eye's open and you see/smell for the first time. You cant believe that was the life you led by choice, most of us can tell you their own story of how awful that find cigarettes now.

Kimbo, you know I want to interview you! I think someone like you, in a well-produced video, would be awesome. I look forward to meeting you some day soon.

 

[kimbo]

Kimbo, you know I want to interview you! I think someone like you, in a well-produced video, would be awesome. I look forward to meeting you some day soon.

Ditto
Well then i must work on my "boere english"

 

[Vaper Rising]

Ditto
Well then i must work on my "boere english"

Ha ha! My Afrikaans is taamlik vlot, maar ek praat so bietjie 'Kaaps'.

 

[kimbo]

Ha ha! My Afrikaans is taamlik vlot, maar ek praat so bietjie 'Kaaps'.

well make the interview afrikaans with sub titles

 

[Kuhlkatz]

Tonight, I checked a Facebook post to me that said, "I wouldn't touch that shit with a bargepole. At least I know I'm smoking a natural product. Not something man-made." Huh? Say whaaaaaaaaaaaat?!!!

I hope you pointed them to the Wikipedia list of 599 tobacco additives approved by the FDA here or a similar page somewhere (Just like any other stuff, it must be true because I read it on the internetz ) Let them work through the list for themselves and see how 'natural' those additives are.

What they should also take into consideration is that one line on the intro paragraph, just below the list of the big 5 American tobacco companies :

One significant issue is that while all these chemical compounds have been approved as additives to food, they were not tested by burning. Burning changes the properties of chemicals. More than 4,000 chemical compounds are created by burning a cigarette, 69 of which are carcinogenic. Toxic gases such as carbon monoxide, hydrogen cyanide, nitrogen oxides and ammonia are found in cigarette smoke.[1][2]

Just like the stuff we vape, none of the shizz in ciggies were tested for inhalation or by burning it - most of them were meant for ingesting as food additives and they are lucky that ONLY 69 of the 4000+ chemical compounds are carcinogenic.

The thing that bugs me most is clueless smokers that are far more critical of vapers and vaping than most non-smokers would ever be. To me they are just like people that think nothing of raiding the office stationery cupboards for pens, paper and other stuff for their own use and then turn around to ***** and complain about the high level of crime in South Africa.

 

[kimbo]

@JakesSA - i love your post

Focusing on the message here is the most important

You have touched on some good points
I like your messsage about vaping making a safer environment for all - ie. Less harmful to others

Extra messages could be
- its much safer than smoking according to initial medical research
- think of the lower health costs from less people being on state hospital treatment for smoking related disease
- fostering the development of small business and job creation

Lets build on these messages.....

Idea ..

Play on the friendship angle, I know my friends have been trying for a long time to get me to stop.

Friends don't let friend ...
- Harm themselves
- Harm the ppl around them
- Shorten their life
- ...

The smokers themselves dont see what they are doing, aim this more to the friends and family of the smoker, get them to feel like they have to do something.

To aim this at smokers is a fart in the wind, they will just shrug it of and light another

 

[Silver]

I think this is good discussion

Should the message be to try converrt smokers to become vapers
or more focused on that regulators should not ban vaping?

These are two broad areas.

 

[Arctus]

I think this is good discussion

Should the message be to try convert smokers to become vapers
or more focused on that regulators should not ban vaping?

These are two broad areas.

I wouldn't try to convert smokers, most of us have either first hand or personal experience in trying this, until the smoker decides for themselves that they want change, trying to push them away from smoking will have the opposite effect, they will only push back harder.

Also, remember that currently we are currently taking the heat off of smokers, they have already been identified, vilified and restricted, we still have a miniscule chance, and our fate is still being discussed and debated, but smokers would like to see us fail just as much as big tobacco does,...misery loves company.

I would focus on regulators but indirectly, using a distinctly South African flavored approach: "We have the right to be healthy, don't take away our freedom to choose healthier alternatives", etc, etc.

 

[johan]

My concern is how do you break down and pass any hard liner's believe system (smokers as well as hostile regulators)? As far as i'm aware of, the only method is, to get them involved by means of a sense of "ownership" / responsibility (i.e their own and others' health) - I think the assistance of a psychologist and/or behavioral scientist would be the first step, but thats just my opinion.

 

[Silver]

I think before we make a video we need to have at least a page on our forum somewhere which summarises what we as vapers stand for and what our position is

Imagine if a regulator contacted the forum and said to us "ok, vapers, what is your point of view and what do you want"

Not saying this would happen, but at least if we have a page that sums up what we believe - then thats a start

 

[Arctus]

I think before we make a video we need to have at least a page on our forum somewhere which summarises what we as vapers stand for and what our position is

Imagine if a regulator contacted the forum and said to us "ok, vapers, what is your point of view and what do you want"

Not saying this would happen, but at least if we have a page that sums up what we believe - then that's a start

Good idea, and if you don't mind me adding to that, how about a thread dedicated to individuals own stories, no comments, no discussions just each individual telling his own story, how they were before vaping, how many cigarettes they smoked, how this affected them, why they decided to change, how the change came about, why they chose vaping, how long they have been vaping now and any difference they may have noticed.

I don't believe that a regulator would ever take the trouble to find out the details of something he was regulating on, but it doesn't hurt to tick all the boxes anyway.

 

[kimbo]

@Arctus have a look at the first article on my website, www.behcets.co.za

 

[Bumblebabe]

Well done!!!

A step in the right direction for sure.

@BumbleBee and I have been talking about the problem of what is going to happen to vaping laws in SA.
I as understand it, you guys have your facts in order and this is a real concern in the vaping community.

I am not at all saying this is the solution but merely want to make a suggestion.

I have been working with this group in our town and we had a meeting last night and now we have a branch here in Tzaneen, of which I am secretary.
It is not a political group and they fight for basic human rights. A part of it, is stopping silly laws in their tracks. They back us up with the law on our side and how to follow proper channels in order to get the best results. This I think will apply to what you guys are trying to prevent or avoid.

It may be a good idea to contact these people for advice. If you have your facts and proper reasons to appose these laws, I am sure they will listen and be able to advice you on what to do. These people know the law and bylaws and know what to do and even more importantly how to go about it.

Afriforum is country wide and have been doing great work to help towns and communities with bad service and mismanaged municipalities. What you are after would probably be the health department.

So my suggestion is to contact the chairman in your town or area and get more information on how they could help you.
Here is a link to the provinces and then choose the town or city and it will give you the contact person.
https://www.afriforum.co.za/takke/gebiedskaart/

If anything is unclear, feel free to contact me.

 

[Arthster]

Is this still going, and do you need more volunteers for this? I am getting pretty hole full of these so called doctors that takes kick back from MR tobacco to keep the poor smoker puffing on a time bomb.

 

[Benjamin Cripps]

If any legal help regarding vaping pops up, I am more than willing to help out.

 

[Cat]

I don't believe that a regulator would ever take the trouble to find out the details of something he was regulating on, but it doesn't hurt to tick all the boxes anyway.

So it is about avoiding banning, prohibition, not about avoiding that vaping/ejuice is taxed along with tobacco.

Note that Johnny2Puffs told that smoking (use of tobacco products) is being banned in Australia for anyone born after year 2000. It is being phased out, it is going to be a prohibited substance. That is the intention of WHO (World Health Organisation) and the upper level anti-smoking organisations working with it.

They have been fighting the big tobacco corporations. They have been winning, gradually.
The problem here, the vaping context, is that the big tobacco corporations are also lobbying to get vaping taxed and/or banned, to bring it within their context along with tobacco. If they succeed, they will be [sort of] on our side, against the WHO - unless the WHO and anti-tobacco organisations understand and accept vaping as harm reduction, as a tool to quit the use of tobacco...but they would still be concerned that it is harmful in terms of fumes from heated ingredients.)

The majority of people are stupid or foolish and ignorant, and this ball is moving fast; there is not enough time to educate them so as to have an influence on legislators. Anyway, the non-smokers don't care, so that leaves only the smokers, already a minority.

The political reality: (1) governments like the tax revenue; (2) legislators are financially rewarded for helping big tobacco corporations; but (3) many governments - and SA is particularly so - are very aligned with United Nations organisations like WHO and the related NGOs. (I think it is primarily the Department of Health concerned in this.)

 

[CloudSurfer]

I'm In will assist where i can, i don't think we have to worry in to much of a hurry the clowns in the gov are pretty slow to the take but prevention is better than cure. we can run vape shebeens under the radar.

 

[devdev]

Ok so I see this thread developed in my absence, and it may be time to necro it...

Instead of us searching for funding or personally raising the cash for a video production ourselves, why don't we assemble a liaison committee who can then engage with the media to increase awareness. There are numerous locally produced shows which have credibility in the eyes of the public. They can use their own production budgets to help us increase awareness. Imagine if Carte Blanche did a segment on vaping?

Remember they will try and get a balanced view. This will likely include interviewing smokers, vapers, retailers and government. There are also some truly amazing personal stories on here, and this should make for quite emotive viewing. There are also excellent resources available on the forum. We have technical, marketing, legal, analysts, IT professionals and a vast wealth of experience.

If we organised ourselves a bit I am sure 3 talk, Turd Degree, Carte Blance or similar type shows could be persuaded to give us a little exposure in exchange for an interesting story.

 

[gavin]

The thing is nicotine has been classified when used as "a substitute for a tobacco product" as a schedule three substance. Schedule three substances require a prescription and should only be sold at pharmacies. If we make a lot of noise we may get noticed and the regulations applied.

The following is from http://www.ecigarette-politics.com/

"SOUTH AFRICA - Partial permission: two-tier system.

E-cigarettes and nicotine-free cartridges may be sold, but nicotine-containing refills are prohibited.

However, it appears that little or no enforcement action is taking place, therefore in practice all products are sold. It is believed that a ban may be in force on imports, and therefore import of e-liquid may be problematic for vendors.

http://mg.co.za/article/2013-09-06-00-e-cigarettes-cancer-risk-close-to-zero
From the above:
A change to the schedules published in terms of the Medicines and Related Substances Act last year (2012) classified nicotine when used as "a substitute for a tobacco product" as a schedule three substance. Schedule three substances require a prescription and should only be sold at pharmacies.
"The intent of the schedule three inscription was to clearly capture unregistered delivery devices containing nicotine, including electronic cigarettes," said Andy Gray of the University of KwaZulu-Natal's pharmacy department. "They cannot be considered to fall under the Tobacco Products Control Act because they do not contain tobacco."

http://www.beeld.com/Suid-Afrika/Nuus/E-twak-Rokers-kry-nog-reels-20120321 (March 2012)"

 

[Nightwalker]

Hey all,

I was just curious if there are any organisations that are available or if its in the pipeline to help prevent (ant vape laws) or at least provide the vaping community with information around vaping in south Africa and the laws?

My reason for this is I am seeing a trend overseas (more usa) and would like to know your thoughts or info?

The FDA says that our juice is unregulated and doesn't know the side effects blah blah blah, but all ingredients are regulated by them individually, go figure their logic. Then big tabaco pays the states money in direct proportion to how many cigarette's are sold. Now some states went ahead and sold bonds with the money they had not received yet and with the growing vapers and less smokers, they suddenly are in kak. So its in their best interest to fight for cigarette's. Once again, go figure.

 

[Willan]

Sign me up for the graphic and web stuff!!!

 

[soofee]

Im in to help in any way possible