This whole Diacetyl subject irritates me to no end, it's been discussed in detail many times on this forum and usually results in the flinging of poo. The only thing that irks me more than this subject is the word "gateway"!
This is very very Alarming! I smoke alot of these liquids and I am very scarred after this article
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Or subnet mask..sorry the geek had to break free
Let's be honest here. Name five products, drinks, produce or whatever, that isn't bad for you. In today's life you can't even trust the crap you grow yourself because it is hormone treated with a world of bad. Most people drink Coke or Pepsi, the crap that does to your body is of nightmares! Even some bottled water is so chemically treated that it's not even water anymore!
I have read through the comments and I have to agree with most of you. On some level I also have to disagree. Sure, we want to know what we put in our bodies, but even if we do we don't care. I like coke, and it makes an excellent toilet cleaner. Even my delicious 'organic' hormone treated apples! I know it's bad for me, yet I eat/drink/use it anyway.
Sure, it will result in negative publicity, and for that fact alone people should try to avoid adding it to their liquids, but there will always be someone who just doesn't care. It's about the money in the end. People have killed for a lot less...
I have read through the comments and I have to agree with most of you. On some level I also have to disagree. Sure, we want to know what we put in our bodies, but even if we do we don't care. I like coke, and it makes an excellent toilet cleaner. Even my delicious 'organic' hormone treated apples! I know it's bad for me, yet I eat/drink/use it anyway.
Sure, it will result in negative publicity, and for that fact alone people should try to avoid adding it to their liquids, but there will always be someone who just doesn't care. It's about the money in the end. People have killed for a lot less...
It just depends on who is doing the study. Think of it, Suicide Bunny Range is popular all over the world. Perhaps someone wants to derail (no pun intended) them?
I would listen to gman92, not only because he is my (biological) brother, but also because he has his honors in food science and studies the chemical composition of everything he consumes. Like literally. We would be sitting at the dinner table, and he would make note that the meat we are eating is (throw in scientific term) enhanced. Same goes to vaping. We chill and Vape in my room, and he makes note of everything he vapes and the chemical composition of the eliquid has always been his muse. It's good to have some background knowledge on what you Vape, but the chances that most of us will blow the the scientific roof out of its proportional head are very high. We hear terms that sound alarming and scary, but we breathe in polluted air that is (at times) more hazardous than what we Vape. This is, of course, the plan of anti-vaping companies to stir doubt in our hearts and bring about a negative effect in our vaping habits. Sure, vaping isn't healthy, but it is healthier than smoking. So. Basically. VAPE ON
When you have a chance, read up on the whole Diacetyl problem - not vaping related, but the original "study" the CDC did when Diacetyl factory workers first started getting sick. It makes for some interesting reading.
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But that's the whole point here. those factory workers where exposed day in and day out to alarming concentrations of the chemical. in large amounts even water will kill you by dissolving the electrolytes in your blood and increasing your BP to the point where your brain swells. lets all get real here and realize that the concentrations of Diacetyl is to low for the average guy that nothing is going to happen. Maybe in after a few years yes but then we can also conclude that prolonged exposure to exhaust fumes will do the same irreversible damage to a human..so was it his juice or his trip to work on the N1 past revonia that did the damage.
Well yes, was not arguing your pointBut that's the whole point here. those factory workers where exposed day in and day out to alarming concentrations of the chemical. in large amounts even water will kill you by dissolving the electrolytes in your blood and increasing your BP to the point where your brain swells. lets all get real here and realize that the concentrations of Diacetyl is to low for the average guy that nothing is going to happen. Maybe in after a few years yes but then we can also conclude that prolonged exposure to exhaust fumes will do the same irreversible damage to a human..so was it his juice or his trip to work on the N1 past revonia that did the damage.
, was actually in my roundabout way trying to point out that the CDC did a really half-assed study and in the end just told the factory workers to wear protection as it is probably harmful.No actual studies on the effects of inhaling Diacetyl has ever been done
I was just about to say they are making the exception the rule. Firstly how many ppm diacetyl is present in the liquid secondly what concentration is left once vaporized and inhaled. Thirdly how much could we possibly vape to mimick the conditions of working in the popcorn factory? Remember in a factory air quality is bad not much fresh air thus they were inhaling a constant. Diacetyl/air mixture with very little fresh air with years of exposure I'm sure it'll be detrimental but not in this application. Hell I worked in a lab at a certain spice manufacturer and after 3 weeka had bronchitis... Turns out i managed to inhale a helluva lot of spices that was in the air due to no face masks that should've been worn... But i digress to get back to the point its not dangerous in this application.
Diacetyl apparently occurs naturally in alcoholic beverages, so I was in trouble a long time ago 
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Well yes, was not arguing your point
No actual studies on the effects of inhaling Diacetyl has ever been done
Sorry mate, didn't mean to sound like I'm running you down. Just that i have worked with and in some extremely dangerous situations and I only needed my common sense and a bit of respect to have survived, I just feel that when all is said and done the guys doing the studies have more than likely never worked with what they are advising against. That irritates me so much because they install fear as a method of control and as i said ignorance kills very effectively. Sorry again if it seemed like i was gunning at you
No worries, I think my statement was rather ambiguous
Been a point I have tried to make many times in this forum whenever this pops up (it's like the 4th time already).
Diacetyl also occurs naturally in many products we use every day. So if you are going to freak out about Diacetyl in your e-liquid, then I assume you are going to also stop using butter, popcorn, wine, beer, some oils, vinegar, coffee, salad dressing, syrup, icing, processed cheese and quite a few others.
Chefs bake with butter and therefore inhale tons of Diacetyl every day, and I have yet to hear about Chefs dying of popcorn lung.
Been a point I have tried to make many times in this forum whenever this pops up (it's like the 4th time already).
Diacetyl also occurs naturally in many products we use every day. So if you are going to freak out about Diacetyl in your e-liquid, then I assume you are going to also stop using butter, popcorn, wine, beer, some oils, vinegar, coffee, salad dressing, syrup, icing, processed cheese and quite a few others.
Chefs bake with butter and therefore inhale tons of Diacetyl every day, and I have yet to hear about Chefs dying of popcorn lung.
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Well said there..that's exactly what i meant about ignorance. People are like sheep unfortunately and as soon as a "scientific" study says something it must be real, without even thinking of the Chefs that just baked the butter cream cookies that they enjoy so much.i think at the end of the day the facts are simple.. if you advertise your product in a certain light. make sure it complies. a simple fix would be for suicide bunny to have and outside company do the tests and submit. just to clear their name. secondly, we should be alot smarter than that as a vaping community. we know how many people out there are trying to shine that negative light on us. whether it be true or false, the public will still see and hear about the negative effects. and they wont bother looking into it any further than just the initial statement.
when we go off on a rant and make a scene we only play into the anti vaping idiots hands.
when we go off on a rant and make a scene we only play into the anti vaping idiots hands.
Here are the results of those very tests:
http://www.ecigssa.co.za/threads/th...ny-kings-crown-thread.4662/page-4#post-125356
Suicide Bunny/King's Crown had their product tested INDEPENDENTLY after this scandal broke out. The tests resulted in the concentrations being so low that they were ruled as Diacetyl Free. All tested liquids returned results of less than 5 particles per million.
Much fuss about nothing.
As a previous non-smoker (i smoked hubbly like a machine though), I was weary about what I vaped. It was only after serious consideration that we settled on Suicide Bunny and Kings Crown. We are going through the same testing and so on with our next international juice line that should launch very soon! After the original Vape Cartel problem we had with the VC Juice, we have been more committed than ever to bring only the BEST and SAFEST liquids to South Africa. Keep on vaping!!! VAPESTRONG!!!
The thing is when suicide bunny was first accused of having Diacetyl, they did submit their products to testing and found none - but as witch hunts go, their tests were immediately "discredited" because "how do we know this is true" and "how do we know that their testing will even pick up Diacetyl" , "where is the chain of custody" on and on it went.
Several tests were done by other parties until finally someone found some - and voila! we found it, PROOF! - of course their tests procedures and chain of custody was not questioned at all
yeah now imagine if the same amount of effort will be put into the clearing of suicide bunny name as well as the apology for the misinformation thrown at the world out there. damage is done with regards to the public eye. the point is not to prove fact but to put a negative twist on vaping. and they have achieved that. we on the other can vape comfortably knowing e liquids are safe for us
Diacetyl apparently occurs naturally in alcoholic beverages, so I was in trouble a long time ago
Do you inhale your alcoholic beverages? I don't, so I'm safe
Well, sometimes I drink so fast it looks like I'm inhaling itDo you inhale your alcoholic beverages? I don't, so I'm safe
@Derrick i completely agree with you. it is a witch hunt. and e juice manufacturers will be subjected to this kind of crap for ever. i think that whats important is that we as a vaping community remain calm and instead of start to panick and throw a fit, we should rather turn to our vendors and our google fundis to assist in finding out what the real deal is. once we panic and make a scene its plays straight into the anti vaping idiots hands and the public sees this and sees it as 'they panicking so it must be true' type of scenario.
Then you get Water Intoxication ... even water in very large amounts kills
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication
Do you inhale your alcoholic beverages? I don't, so I'm safe
lol ...
I don't know guys, I am slightly concerned now.
There are more results here:
http://thesuicidebunny.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/SB-AP-Results.pdf
Acetyl Propionyl was found, so their lab testing wasn't complete.
Yes, these things are in everyday foods, but we aren't vaporizing these foods at 1000 degrees Celsius.
Take a look at Phil Busardos video on the Sigelei 100w mod, he takes 20awg Kanthal and hits at 100w and it melts!
Melting point of Kanthal is well over 1200 degrees.
There are more results here:
http://thesuicidebunny.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/SB-AP-Results.pdf
Acetyl Propionyl was found, so their lab testing wasn't complete.
Yes, these things are in everyday foods, but we aren't vaporizing these foods at 1000 degrees Celsius.
Take a look at Phil Busardos video on the Sigelei 100w mod, he takes 20awg Kanthal and hits at 100w and it melts!
Melting point of Kanthal is well over 1200 degrees.
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