This is very very Alarming! I smoke alot of these liquids and I am very scarred after this article

[Danny]

I don't know guys, I am slightly concerned now.

There are more results here:

http://thesuicidebunny.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/SB-AP-Results.pdf

Acetyl Propionyl was found, so their lab testing wasn't complete.

Yes, these things are in everyday foods, but we aren't vaporizing these foods at 1000 degrees Celsius.

Take a look at Phil Busardos video on the Sigelei 100w mod, he takes 20awg Kanthal and hits at 100w and it melts!

Melting point of Kanthal is well over 1200 degrees.

The AP results were a bit more concerning. We arent vaping at 1000 degrees thought more like 250-300 I think. Resistors in a fluid medium typically only heat up to the boiling point of that medium, until there is too little of the fluid left to absorb the extra energy ( eg when your wick is dry)

 

[Derick]

I don't know guys, I am slightly concerned now.

There are more results here:

http://thesuicidebunny.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/SB-AP-Results.pdf

Acetyl Propionyl was found, so their lab testing wasn't complete.

Yes, these things are in everyday foods, but we aren't vaporizing these foods at 1000 degrees Celsius.

Take a look at Phil Busardos video on the Sigelei 100w mod, he takes 20awg Kanthal and hits at 100w and it melts!

Melting point of Kanthal is well over 1200 degrees.

If you are vaping at 1000 degrees celsius you will be combusting your PG and VG, then you will be inhaling acrolein and the 0.0001% of Acetoin will be the least of your problems

EDIT: Acrolein tastes horrible, it burns your mouth, throat, nose and lungs and makes your eyes water - you will definitely know if you are vaping acrolein

 

[Yash]

I am fully aware that I'm not vaping at 1000 degrees, but the fact of the matter is that you don't know what temperature you are vaping at.

And even more concerning, is what happens to eliquid when you pass the flash point. It's easy to pass the flash point with the new devices out there and super sub-ohm builds in mechanical mods.

 

[Derick]

I am fully aware that I'm not vaping at 1000 degrees, but the fact of the matter is that you don't know what temperature you are vaping at.

And even more concerning, is what happens to eliquid when you pass the flash point. It's easy to pass the flash point with the new devices out there and super sub-ohm builds in mechanical mods.

Flash point is something else - the flash point for PG for example is only 130 Celsius - an evod can - and probably does - reach that with normal vaping. Flash point just means that sufficient vapour is produced that the vapour can catch fire

 

[Danny]

I am fully aware that I'm not vaping at 1000 degrees, but the fact of the matter is that you don't know what temperature you are vaping at.

And even more concerning, is what happens to eliquid when you pass the flash point. It's easy to pass the flash point with the new devices out there and super sub-ohm builds in mechanical mods.

The only response I can give is once again moderation. super subohm and high wattage mods will eventually cause problems and have caused problems (or should I say extremist users of such devices have caused problems). They dont represent a moderate approach to vaping and would increase the risks involved.

I just dont think we need to follow the american trend of panicking over every blurb that comes up in the media. Especially when they arent substantiated, they still havent even proven the chemicals are actually responsible for the damage they are accused of causing.

 

[johan]

Boiling vs. Burning:

Boiling isn't Burning, it is rapid vaporizing. i.e; if you drip water onto a hot plate it will evaporate, not burn. Vaporizing occurs when a liquid is heated to its specific boiling point, the temperature at which the vapor pressure of the liquid is equal to the pressure exerted on the liquid by the surrounding environmental pressure.

On the other hand, burning (combustion) is a high-temperature exothermic chemical reaction between a fuel and an oxidant, usually atmospheric oxygen that produces oxidized, often gaseous products in a mixture termed Smoke.

Combustion of a liquid fuel (i.e gasoline) in an oxidizing atmosphere actually happens in the gas phase. The fumes from gasoline are what ignite, not the liquid, because gasoline has a low flash point. That is why it appears to explode, since all of the gas fumes ignite to quickly.

The Flash Point of PG is more/less 109C (or 228F)
The Flash Point of VG is more/less 193C (or 379F)

PS. I miss the "special characters and symbols" function we use to have on this forum software.

 

[Derick]

PG also has an autoignition point of around 500 Celsius - so it gets that hot, it bursts into flames. At which point Acrolein will be produced in boat loads.

And interesting fact for you USP grade PG is allowed to have 1ppm Arsenic in it - so 5ppm Acetoin is really besides the point

 

[Derick]

Here's some reading info on PG & VG
http://chemicalland21.com/petrochemical/propylene glycol.htm
http://www.chemicalland21.com/lifescience/foco/GLYCEROL.htm

Both can have Arsenic in it - and like that quote I posted earlier - everything is poison, just the dose determines if it is actually bad for you

 

[GerharddP]

Just to add my two cents. I would advise anyone to go and read up on the laws of thermodynamics. If you do not understand those laws I will explain them in layman's terms. Look at it this way, your kettle element will reach way beyond the boiling point of water because the energy is "transformed" from electrical to heat energy, with no water to absorb the excess heat the resistance will increase as the temperature increases and thus the temp will increase until the melting point of the element wire is reached at which point the current will increase so much that the metal turns to gas and disconnects the current flow. If there is water present the element (by the laws of first year physics) will only ever reach the boiling point of the surrounding medium as this medium will absorb the energy and change state, thus you will never on God's green earth reach a 1000C unless your wick is dry and even if you somehow bypass the laws of physics and thermodynamics you wont get close to even 300C. Example being, put your oven at max, wait for it to reach that temp and then open the door and try to take a breath. Ive worked in a smelting facility before and without cooled air being pumped into your suit you will not survive and the air temp there only reaches +-70C.

 

[GerharddP]

Just to add my two cents. I would advise anyone to go and read up on the laws of thermodynamics. If you do not understand those laws I will explain them in layman's terms. Look at it this way, your kettle element will reach way beyond the boiling point of water because the energy is "transformed" from electrical to heat energy, with no water to absorb the excess heat the resistance will increase as the temperature increases and thus the temp will increase until the melting point of the element wire is reached at which point the current will increase so much that the metal turns to gas and disconnects the current flow. If there is water present the element (by the laws of first year physics) will only ever reach the boiling point of the surrounding medium as this medium will absorb the energy and change state, thus you will never on God's green earth reach a 1000C unless your wick is dry and even if you somehow bypass the laws of physics and thermodynamics you wont get close to even 300C. Example being, put your oven at max, wait for it to reach that temp and then open the door and try to take a breath. Ive worked in a smelting facility before and without cooled air being pumped into your suit you will not survive and the air temp there only reaches +-70C.

Sorry for the double post but here's a link that's very interesting to read. http://physicsforidiots.com/physics/thermodynamics/

 

[Derick]

Just to add my two cents. I would advise anyone to go and read up on the laws of thermodynamics. If you do not understand those laws I will explain them in layman's terms. Look at it this way, your kettle element will reach way beyond the boiling point of water because the energy is "transformed" from electrical to heat energy, with no water to absorb the excess heat the resistance will increase as the temperature increases and thus the temp will increase until the melting point of the element wire is reached at which point the current will increase so much that the metal turns to gas and disconnects the current flow. If there is water present the element (by the laws of first year physics) will only ever reach the boiling point of the surrounding medium as this medium will absorb the energy and change state, thus you will never on God's green earth reach a 1000C unless your wick is dry and even if you somehow bypass the laws of physics and thermodynamics you wont get close to even 300C. Example being, put your oven at max, wait for it to reach that temp and then open the door and try to take a breath. Ive worked in a smelting facility before and without cooled air being pumped into your suit you will not survive and the air temp there only reaches +-70C.

Can I like this post twice?

 

[Mklops]

Screw it, I just ordered a bottle of Madrina, looks to tastey to give up!!!!

And like it's been said, we all have put worse in our bodies!

 

[GerharddP]

Can I like this post twice?

Im not a Mod but if it was up to me you are more than welcome good Sir.....

 

[GerharddP]

Screw it, I just ordered a bottle of Madrina, looks to tastey to give up!!!!

And like it's been said, we all have put worse in our bodies!

Well to ease any further queries just Google "wildfire smoke composition" so yes if you have ever been at or have "braaied" (<--sorry) in your life then you have inhaled some really bad @$$ stuff..yet i love a good vleisie

 

[johan]

Nobody mentioned it yet, but if you smell a fart, you've already inhaled in various percentages:
Methane
Carbon dioxide
Nitrogen
Hydrogen

 

[Alex]

Nobody mentioned it yet, but if you smell a fart, you've already inhaled in various percentages:
Methane
Carbon dioxide
Nitrogen
Hydrogen

I avoid lifts whenever possible.