Scammer alert - What was the outcome?

[Kuhlkatz]

Just my take on this:
I personally do not think that it's the Admin & Mod team's job to play police for all of us. They do have day jobs and a life outside this forum - it's not a large 'organization' that has the luxury of dedicating specific people to specific tasks, which is why this is not left just to one or two people. They do communicate, but they are definitely not all sitting in a support center, just waiting on us to call them.

I can not expect the mods to cover my backside or clean up after me when I mess. It's my job to keep my own nose clean. It's in our and their interest that they remain neutral for the good of the forum and the community. Some moderation may be required, but in cases like this, I do not fully agree on over-moderation - as in threads that get removed. However, some actions from members may force a lock or removal as stuff just escalates too quick while everyone wants to take a dig. Don't go and voice your opinion on how bad the individual is - just take note, move on and rather keep your opinion to yourself if you are not involved.

Vendors should use care when dealing with people. No pay, no play - simple. Members that expect to be treated like royalty by vendors just because they vape and hate waiting for their vape mail need to realize that these are businesses, and they need to operate like that. I understand that there is a huge amount of trust in general between the members and the vendors, but I am all for the vendors being able to cover their own arses when their money comes into play. Even if this means I have to wait like in the 'Real World'.

When buying or selling stuff in the classifieds, use an extra bit of care and try and find previous sales / discussions where the buyer or seller was involved to get an idea if a deal went off OK or not. If something did not, state that in the thread and perhaps help someone else out.
I think @r0gue z0mbie mentioned / proposed a universal rating system not specifically tied in to the forum locally, which could help in the classies. I'm not sure if the vendors could piggy-back off of that externally, unless they know the forum names of individuals they deal with.
Someone will always try and get away with doing a dodgy deal, no matter where in the world it is.

Now, I like the vibe here - it's not the usual ganking, witch hunts, political drivel and bickering that is the norm on other local forums. Lets try and keep it that way.
Imo, a PM to Shane or any of the mods would likely have sufficed to satisfy the curiosity.

 

[DougP]

I was one of people that really went hard after this person on the initial thread.
At the time I was trying to achieve one objective only and that was to try and make as many people publicly aware of what this individual was doing.
For those vendors that weren't aware of him it was a case of .. "Seller Beware". At the time I do know that a lot of vendors were aware of him and managing him accordingly.
What concerned me at the time was more so the people on here who were wanting to buy on classifieds. This person was selling literally thousand of rand's worth of items across numerous forums and I wanted the buyers to be cautious when dealing with him. Most people using the classifieds to buy items are spending hard earned monies that they cant afford to loose to a alleged scam.

I never intended for this to become a "Oscar Pistorius Trial" where people all dived in and became prosecutor, judge, jury and executioners. More so this has now taken a sad twist because Oscar sneaked out the back door so now the moderators have been pushed into the dock and the trial continues.

With regards to the moderators I apologize for putting you in this predicament as my actions, along with others at the time, has placed you all in a very awkward situation. This was never my intent. Sadly it appears that the focus has completely shifted from the original context of the post, being the individual, to a public trial of the moderators and their actions which i believe is fundamentally wrong.

On the original post it was agreed by us the individuals involved in the that thread that it would be locked down. Subsequently to it being locked I have had an ongoing PM session with a moderator to find out if any updates had occurred. This moderator and I agreed that we would not create a public issue of this anymore so we left it.
Now at the risk of being burnt at the stake by the lynch mob I would like to request the following..
As one of the original participants in the original thread I feel that his whole issue regarding this individual should be left to the original parties involved. Right now I do not sanction what is happening here and request that this thread be locked as this has become a totally separate discussion around forum and member management
If a new thread needs to be created around how to manage individuals on the forum then no problem.

 

[Eequinox]

I will not hide the fact that i was part of the lynch mob going after this guy as i can not stand a dishonest person and yes tempers flare and emotions run high i my self and a few others surely were following this with great interest to see if justice would be done guilty or not guilty but i myself felt that it got swept under the rug as it was just silenced as fast as it had begun a simple update would have sufficed i was more interested to find out if the email from the bank was genuine or not yes people were burned.The whole story was made public knowledge in the first place i will not comment any further on this as it caused issues i agree but not talking about something does not make it go away maybe this whole fiasco will act as a deterrent to wanna be scammers or chancers in future

One thing positive has come out of this and that's the passion of the community in general for the well being of vaping and the welfare of the vendors we have grown to love

 

[ShaneW]

Hi Guys

Apologies for the late response, have had a helluva week... My lack of response was purely because I've only checked the forum now.

Personally I'd like to see this fiasco put to rest. As far as I'm aware all the vendors affected have been paid.

Regarding the email...
As I said in the previous thread, if what he is saying is proved to be true, I'll be the 1st to apologise and will inform everyone.
He did forward me the communication and it honestly did not help his cause in the least. I also tried to call him to discuss it and get clarity but he cancelled every call. Who knows, he might still give me something tangible but I somehow doubt it and should it lead to his innocence, I will most definitely exonerate him on the forum.

I think the threads created have served their purpose which was to create awareness. We've all learnt a valuable lesson from this.

Anyone wanting info because they are concerned about being put in a similar situation is welcome to PM me. Please don't ask for gossip, I'd rather not fuel another surge.

Now, let's put this to rest... Vape strong and have a Lekka weekend.

Cheers

Shane

 

[Ohmen]

Thank you @ShaneW

Edit: If it looks like a dog, walks like a dog and barks like a dog, then it's a dog

 

[Silver]

Thanks for your sincere feedback @ShaneW
Much appreciated

 

[DougP]

I just wanted to kill this off now because it was turning into a nasty witch hunt on you guys and that is wrong

 

[Kuhlkatz]

Vendors: I am glad that - at least on the surface - it looks like the affected vendors got back what was owed to them. @method1 , thanks for bringing this up originally, and also sharing with fellow vendors. Good to see you guys sticking together.
For most of us it is a great experience dealing with you guys and gals. Looking at reviews and feedback, and from my own experience, you make it your business to bend over backwards for the SA vaping community and we like that - a lot. I think most of the vapers do not see these as just business relations or simple financial transactions. Through vape meets and direct contact with most of you, it extends to a kinship or symbiosis of sorts, and also to casual friendships.
BUT... Please don't trust any of us more than you should - we would hate to lose you and we need you guys just as much as you need us.

Members : It would tick anyone off if someone literally takes a dump on your front porch, and I think this is how most of us feel about this situation. Read through the other threads again, and it's clear that most members care about this place, it's members and the vendors. @DougP , you made it very clear that care should be taken with any dealings, and that the person is using multiple aliases on top of it. Sharing is caring and no one needs to feel guilty. The other threads may be locked at this stage, but were not deleted and are pretty much still showing up in searches. It is unfortunate if some people got stung by this, but simply banning a single account would likely not be of any use. There are ways and means to lurk the web anonymously from various IPs and only normal people register a single account on forums.
BUT... Just like when dealing with other public sales platforms, please use care when dealing with classifieds - a bit of homework usually helps and we cannot blame the hosts for any bad experiences.

Mods & Admins : Thanks for a place to stay and keeping our house clean. You listen to our whining and fix what you can, even if we gang up on you.
BUT... Yeah, we know - It's a kak job, but somebody's gotta do it

 

[ShaneW]

Vendors: I am glad that - at least on the surface - it looks like the affected vendors got back what was owed to them. @method1 , thanks for bringing this up originally, and also sharing with fellow vendors. Good to see you guys sticking together.
For most of us it is a great experience dealing with you guys and gals. Looking at reviews and feedback, and from my own experience, you make it your business to bend over backwards for the SA vaping community and we like that - a lot. I think most of the vapers do not see these as just business relations or simple financial transactions. Through vape meets and direct contact with most of you, it extends to a kinship or symbiosis of sorts, and also to casual friendships.
BUT... Please don't trust any of us more than you should - we would hate to lose you and we need you guys just as much as you need us.

Members : It would tick anyone off if someone literally takes a dump on your front porch, and I think this is how most of us feel about this situation. Read through the other threads again, and it's clear that most members care about this place, it's members and the vendors. @DougP , you made it very clear that care should be taken with any dealings, and that the person is using multiple aliases on top of it. Sharing is caring and no one needs to feel guilty. The other threads may be locked at this stage, but were not deleted and are pretty much still showing up in searches. It is unfortunate if some people got stung by this, but simply banning a single account would likely not be of any use. There are ways and means to lurk the web anonymously from various IPs and only normal people register a single account on forums.
BUT... Just like when dealing with other public sales platforms, please use care when dealing with classifieds - a bit of homework usually helps and we cannot blame the hosts for any bad experiences.

Mods & Admins : Thanks for a place to stay and keeping our house clean. You listen to our whining and fix what you can, even if we gang up on you.
BUT... Yeah, we know - It's a kak job, but somebody's gotta do it

Well said @Kuhlkatz and thanks for that post

 

[Silver]

Thanks @Kuhlkatz. I appreciate it.

 

[n0ugh7_zw]

while we're on the topic of funniness and money

Vendors,
I'd like to ask you guys, if possible, please can you enable payments form international debit/credit cards on your payfast gateway thingies? I know i'm probably the most vocal, but I'm not alone in being a guy outside RSA that really wants to buy stuff from you guys, but has issues doing EFT's due to ridiculously high charges.

I'm in the process of figuring out a means of shipping to me, once thats worked out. I'll spread the word, and hopefully the Southern African vape fam will grow a little

 

[Zeki Hilmi]

Hi guys,

I've kept quite quiet throughout all this but have observed it from the beginning. I was the 1st to be affected. I raised concern straight away as I'm also an ABSA client and so are my family and neither of us were affected with any transition of their website. I still have not even seen any changes take place. The reason I thought it was a scam was very simple. The proof of payment I received was not an official ABSA pop. I gave the gentleman the benefit of the doubt for 24hrs then I new it was time to ask the other vendors if they had been affected. Low and behold when they looked into it many of us were. I was subsequently paid promptly with a genuine ABSA pop.

I'm not a crime analyst or any form of police officer but it was quite evident to me that I had been scammed. If the gentleman in question had provided official pop I don't think this would have got to the degree it got to. I also believe innocent until proven guilty however I think if he is innocent he is still awfully lucky this was not taken any further. If he is guilty then he should be behind bars. I'm not judge and jury.

This to me is still in my eyes fraud. If I am wrong then I will be the 1st to stand up and make a sincere apology. I do know my regular customers and will continue to honour their payments with a pop however with the new customers are getting daily I'm just hanging on til payment is clear which with ABSA and FNB generally 24hrs unless its paid over the weekend.

With my new policy I've had no complaints so far.

I think it's a lesson to be learnt from this and I do feel grateful that I'm now more aware than being so trustworthy. This is the 1st for me but I wish I could say it will be the last. Unfortunately we live in desperate times where people will try anything.

The gentleman we are also talking about tried to sell stuff on the classifieds very soon after. I was shocked with the amount and 90% of the vape gear was brand spanking new. Once again this is all too suspicious that you have just so called "innocently" purchased this and now you are selling it all again. Not sure what that's about.

I have my suspicions this was what it was intended for in the 1st place but if you had the funds to buy all this gear why would you instantly want to be at a loss??

My 2c

 

[zadiac]

I think all vendors must just be cautious when dealing with buyers and make sure money clears first before shipping, unless they know the buyer personally and that they're good for it.
I have a long standing relationship with people like SkyBlue, Vapeclub, Vapecartel and Sirvape and from my previous purchases and personal contact, I'm sure they know I'm good for it, but I do not expect them to ship to me without funds clearing. That is up to them.
As for the individual in question, I trust the mod and admin team's decision on this.
That's just my 2c